July 17, 2024 • 21 mins
Do you ever feel like the pressure of ministry is weighing you down? This episode is your lifeline! Join me, Margie Bryce, for a soul-refreshing conversation on self-care for ministry leaders. I'm bringing you a wealth of wisdom on building resilience through hobbies, recreational activities, and focusing on single tasks that give your brain a much-needed rest from the pressures of ministry. We'll also talk about the invaluable support of a coach or spiritual director and I'll be sharing a list of suggestions on how to rally that support from your congregations.
As we unpack a PDF file detailing 50 ways to Support Your Pastor across five dimensions of wellness, we'll redefine what success in ministry looks like - and it's not just about numbers and money. Above all, I'll drop a reminder we all need to hear from time to time: our main job is to pass the baton along to the next generation of followers of Jesus. Get ready to soak in an episode filled with insights and encouragement tailored for those who've answered the call to ministry.
For more information on the transformative Ministerial Coaching Initiative, generously supported by the Lilly Foundation and facilitated through Point Loma Nazarene's Center for Pastoral Leadership, CLICK HERE.
This is a GUILT-FREE zone! So here's your friendly nudge about self-care and its importance for your family, friends, and those you serve in ministry.
Contact info:
Email me at crabbypastor@gmail.com with your input and ideas for burnout and leadership topics of interest or if you know someone who might be interesting to interview.
Visit my website:
YOUR LEADERSHIP COACH FOCUSED ON BURNOUT PREVENTION
Get your FREE Burnout Symptoms test to help you assess whether you are dealing with just general tiredness or something MORE.
CLICK HERE FOR THE BURNOUT SYMPTOMS TEST.
I love scouring around to find great content to share, and am always interested in feedback, if you are or know of someone willing to share their Back from Burnout story so we can all learn together, then CLICK HERE to email me.
And, if this is a reminder you wish to opt out of, that's fine too.
Blessings on your journey!
Margie
🦀 🦀 🦀
Find regular support on my Facebook group: Building Sustainability in Ministry Leaders: Beating Burnout.
Connect with me about
LEADERSHIP COACHING and Workshops...
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Margie (00:01):
Hey there, Margie Bryce here bringing you the Crabby
Pastor podcast, and I don'tthink you're going to be too
surprised to know that it's tooeasy today to become the Crabby
Pastor.
Our time together will give youfood for thought to help you be
the ministry leader, fullysurrendered to God's purposes
(00:24):
and living into whatever ittakes to get you there and keep
you there.
So we're talking aboutsustainability in ministry.
Hey there, before we getstarted on today's episode, I
want to give you thisopportunity.
Today's episode, I want to giveyou this opportunity to enhance
(00:49):
your self-care.
Part of self-care is havinganother individual come
alongside you, whether you'relooking at a coach, a spiritual
director or whatever means youhave, so that you're not walking
this journey alone, alone, thatyou have another person walking
with you, and that is theministerial coaching initiative.
I've been a part of that nowfor this past year and as a
(01:11):
coach, I have enjoyed walkingalongside ministry leaders.
This is a Lilly Foundationgrant that is providing coaching
through Point Loma Nazarene,their Center for Pastoral
Leadership.
So what I'm going to do is puta link in the show notes for
(01:33):
where you can go to get moreinformation.
You know, tell them the KrabbyPastors sent you.
They'll laugh about that, buttell them that I sent you.
So this is one of the avenueswhere I provide coaching for
ministry leaders and you know Ido it independently as well and
through several other places.
(01:54):
So I wanted to offer this toyou because you know, maybe
you'd like to try on coachingand maybe you'd like to make a
commitment to do this is eightsessions and there is a cost
involved.
It's a good deal because I was.
I'm always about the good dealalways.
So you know if you're going totry on coaching, you don't want
(02:17):
to try it on just once.
You know I'm going to have onesession just see how it goes.
I think you're at least goingto benefit from three to four to
get a sense of whether it's agood fit and how it's going to
operate for you.
Because coaching is its ownthing.
It's not exactly therapy, it'snot exactly a lot of stuff, but
(02:40):
it's its own entity that helpsyou discover and empowers you to
discover some new solutions toexisting situations or how you
want to manage yourself in themidst of your ministry context.
So maybe you want to check thisout.
The link is in the show notes.
It will be there through theend of the year and then the
(03:04):
program does start in January,so that's why it's there for
that long.
So I hope you'll consider this.
I've been working through a PDFfile that says 50 ways to
support your pastor across fivedimensions of welling, and I
worked on a good share of it inour last episode, and I want to
(03:27):
remind us that this connectsback to episode 80, where the
people at Westpath, which is anagency of the United Methodist
Church, identified fivedimensions of well-being
Physical, financial, emotional,spiritual and social.
Physical, financial, emotional,spiritual and social and these
50 ways are divided into eachone of these dimensions, and I
(03:57):
got through most of it.
But what I wanted to do wasfinish up the social dimension
here, because it's a reallyimportant area for you to
consider how it is that you'resupporting your own well-being.
Again, I want to remind youthat this document is available
in the show notes and I will besure to put that there so that
(04:17):
you have your own copy wheremaybe you want to discuss some
of this with your people inleadership.
I wanted to go through thissocial dimension and I think
what I want to start with thisis not necessarily in order that
(04:37):
it's on their happy sheet hereand again.
I do want to remind us that Ithink I think these apply
broadly to whatever denominationor tribe, or that you hang with
wherever God has planted yourfeet.
At ministry, let's say I thinkthese apply very broadly to the
(04:58):
life of ministry leaders and I'mstill pushing back on that 24-7
model that we have pushed intoand because I think we're overly
pushed into levels of successand frequently those levels of
success are connected to.
(05:18):
Now, some books say nickels andnoses, some say butts in the pew
and bucks.
That's another one where it's,you know, it's the money you
raise, it's it's the number ofpeople and certainly the number
of people I mean it's important.
On the other hand, it's good toremember and I was really
reminded of this Listen to I'venever listened to Christine Kane
(05:41):
in a passing the baton sermonthat she gave.
It's like 11 years ago.
Because I'm listening to it,I'm thinking when is it?
I don't know, I'm not even wasnever familiar with her before.
She's Australian and reallygreat word.
But it talks about how you'repassing.
(06:02):
Your main job is that you are aperson who is responsible to
pass a baton along to the nextgeneration of followers of Jesus
.
So that was a great, greatreminder about what it is and
what success really is, aboutbeing sure that the baton in the
race is passed to the personcoming up behind you that's
(06:26):
going to go on ahead of you inthe race.
So, anyway, I just want toremind us about success and have
that in proper perspective, forself-care reasons, because you
want to pace yourselfaccordingly.
You can't move far and fastcarrying a very heavy load.
(06:47):
You just you're gonna.
That's the recipe for burnout,actually.
So, and that has been my passionand concern, after having
served in pastoral ministry in acouple of different churches
where I brought somerevitalization in and got the
people up and serving, because Ikept thinking, well, what value
(07:08):
would Jesus have in having achurch that is just dotting its
I's and crossing its T's and notreally serving its community,
not really serving the purposesof God?
You know, god will just kind oflet you dwindle away because,
god's way nicer than I would be,I might be smoting, I'm smoting
(07:29):
and thinking it's going tomotivate people, which is just
ridiculous, I know.
But and that is why I am notGod right, for sure, for sure,
for sure.
So God's kindness leads us torepentance, right, keep that in
mind.
God's kindness leads us torepentance, right, keep that in
mind.
Okay, I'm going to go back tothese social dimensions, because
(07:49):
you're saying what?
Just get back to the list, willyou the ones I want to yammer
on about?
In the list of socialdimensions, near the end, it
says and again, these are kindof instructions to people who
are in charge of caring for thepastor in any local congregation
Avoid scheduling churchmeetings or activities requiring
(08:12):
the pastor's presence more thantwo nights per week.
Okay, now you know.
Again, this is in honor of paceyourself.
Pace yourself After having verylong work days and then they
roll into evenings that can veryeasily become at least two
(08:34):
12-hour days.
I've seen it happen, I've livedit before, and that just
anything beyond that is justmore than what you need to do it
.
That kind of fits in with theone that was from the emotional
dimension episode talking aboutidentifying how you work with
(08:56):
the pastor to identify whichchurch programs and activities
truly require the pastor'spresence, because Because in
some cases it doesn't we'retrying not to be character
driven or you know whatever.
Have an individual pastor, justbe all that and a bag of chips,
because it's too easy for peopleto get very attached to whoever
(09:19):
the pastor is, and then itbecomes about following the
pastor, and any good pastorknows that you want your people
to follow Jesus, right, not thepastor, as as much as that, you
know.
We secretly don't want to admitsomething like that.
But it's nice, you know, it'snice to to get the accolades,
(09:40):
it's nice to have the respectbutades, it's nice to have the
respect, but really you wantyour people to follow Jesus.
So we're talking about how thepastor's time is used here, and
this advocates no more than twonights a week should the pastor
have to haul themselves out.
Not only that, but many pastorshave families.
(10:01):
That, but many pastors havefamilies.
And when the kids get to be acertain age some friends have
called those the busy years, youknow, where you feel like
you're just driving kids andspectating.
There was one year, I think Iboy, I was so glad when golf
season came because all I had todo was pick them up at the 18th
hole.
You know, know, that's it, as Ihad gone through oh gosh
(10:23):
basketball.
And I had gone through whatelse?
Hockey, and I had gone throughbaseball season, yeah, so when
it was all in one year.
So, yeah, golf was a treat.
I just picked them up at theend, not that I didn't want to
see my kid golf, but you know, Imean that alone is taxing and
(10:45):
you can say, well, I'll justdump that on my spouse.
Yeah, no, you want to help, youwant to be a part of that, you
want to see that.
So, anyway, avoid more than twonights a week is what they're
advocating for.
Avoid more than two nights aweek is what they're advocating
(11:07):
for.
Okay, welcome the pastor'sspouse and family as a part of
the congregation and community,without unrealistic expectations
or demands such as there's asuch as here, such as expecting
the pastor's children to alwaysbe perfectly behaved, or
expecting the spouse to be anunpaid staff member.
(11:28):
Oh, my gosh, somebody out thereis applauding that.
That actually made it into inkon a paper somewhere.
And I, yeah, I that expectationof an unpaid staff member.
You know it's like oh, you canplay the piano, wink, wink.
(11:49):
You know why I don't get thissomething for nothing deal that
some churches seem to have.
And I, I experienced that manyyears ago when I was asked well,
you can be on my staff, what'sthe least amount that we can pay
you, which I thought was.
(12:10):
I thought this is a rudequestion, isn't it?
And I should have.
Had I been a little older youknow, female I might have said
something, but I wasn't.
And I just felt like I had togo home and calculate something
and I felt very pressuredbecause I thought, if I get this
(12:30):
wrong, I'm gonna, you know, notget the position.
Or if I, then if I state anamount that I think is an
appropriate pay, I might not getthe job.
Or maybe I should just say, oh,you don't have to pay me at all
, which then has yourcongregation not ascribing a
(12:52):
proper value to what you bringto the table.
So, you know, that might not bethe same in some nonprofit
startups or that kind of thing,but it was.
It was pressure.
It was pressure for, you know,wink, wink, how cheap can we get
you?
Which I think is an incrediblyrude question.
(13:13):
And the rude thing is a bigdeal, because it's love is
patient, love is kind, love isnot rude.
Just saying, let's see,encourage the pastor's
participation in a clergyaccountability support group and
allow him or her time duringthe work week to participate.
(13:33):
So, pastors, if you areattending a clergy
accountability or support groupin some fashion that counts as
your work hours.
That's part of what you arebeing, I guess I want to say
paid for.
You know that is a part of yourwork is to stay connected to
(13:54):
other pastors and be accountableand get the support that you
need from other people and havea place that you can again
process and you do not have toget off the clock to do that.
Just saying Encourage the pastorto socialize with others
outside the church in quotes,family with whom he or she can
(14:20):
step outside the pastoral rolefor a period of time, and this
is important.
This is a self-care thing.
What happens when you socialize?
Because that kind of goes handin hand with the next one.
So let me just include that forthe sake of conversation.
It's not really conversation,it's a monologue.
(14:41):
This is a monologue, but forthe sake of my monologue here,
understand that the socialevents with church members,
although it's fun for everyone,are not always truly social
events for the pastor, who canbe pulled into the pastoral role
at any time, and that's a thing.
(15:03):
That is definitely a thing thatyou get pulled into a pastoral
role when you are with churchmembers.
Not not always, not 100% of thetime, because I know somebody
saying well, I, you know mydoesn't work that way for me.
Well, yay for that and for youabout that.
(15:23):
But in many cases what happensis you know you put the pastor
hat off and then you put thepastor hat on and you know it's
a matter of am I now on or off?
And we need some off time.
We need time where we can takethe pastoral hat off.
So that's why it's important tosocialize with others outside
(15:47):
of your church family.
They also say respect thepastor's time, set aside to
spend time with their family.
Our first line of ministry isour family.
Really, I can't tell you howmany pastoral families have
really suffered because pastorshave, you know, set those things
(16:12):
aside to the detriment of theirfamilies and their marriages.
That is not.
I don't think that isGod-honoring, I just don't.
So you want to, for sure,support that, support the pastor
.
Also.
Here's another one Support thepastor in getting out of town
regularly, particularly whenserving in a small town, so they
(16:36):
can engage in activitiesoutside the church's direct
mission field.
Just saying you need to stepback from the work environment.
Yes, it's a calling, yes, it'sa vocation, but it's also a
demanding one, and you need tojust step back for a moment.
(16:56):
I think about when Jesusstepped back from the throngs of
people wanting stuff from himand went up to the mountain and
prayed.
Now maybe that wasn't social,but maybe he brought a disciple
or two.
Then it is sort of that's a bitof a stretch, but you kind of
get the picture.
Even Jesus stepped back for aminute and had to come up for
(17:17):
air.
And if Jesus had to come up forair, then I think we do as well
.
We do as well and I'm going tofinish up with this one.
Nobody ever encouraged me to dothis but encourage the pastor to
engage in hobbies and enjoyablerecreational activities outside
(17:41):
the church setting, and this isa facet of self-care that I
label as create and dream.
You need to have a hobby orsomething where, when you do it,
you lose track of time, andthat's because you can only
focus on that one thing, not onthe 50 or more things at the
(18:04):
church that are calling for yourattention at the church that
are calling for your attention.
And by focusing on just onething, actually neuroscience
says your brain rests a bit fromthe demand of a heavy load or
(18:25):
lots of things on your to-dolist.
All of that becomes for a timenon-existent and you can just
focus on one thing exclusively,so I'm going to leave that there
.
There's way more on that listand maybe you'd like a copy so
that you can see that someoneactually did write these things
down People in official capacity, people who care deeply for the
(18:50):
well-being of those who servein churches and church plants,
and so these are suggestions.
I guess I think they're morethan suggestions.
Really, I think it's more of alist of.
This is the way it ought to runfolks it out of, run folks and
(19:15):
how to support your, yourministry leader, your main
pastor in your church.
So maybe this episode and theone before is something you want
to share with church boardmembers.
You could use the podcast for adiscussion, along with the 50
ways sheet, and use that to talkthrough the things on the list
(19:37):
here that you want to own andmaybe the things that you don't,
and talk through why that is,and that way you can get the
support that you need from yourcongregation leaders.
Hey, friends, the Crabby Pastorpodcast is sponsored by Bryce
(20:01):
Art Glass and you can find thaton Facebook.
I make stained glass as part ofmy self-care, and also by Bryce
Coaching, where I coach ministryleaders and business leaders,
and so the funds that I generatefrom coaching and from making
(20:22):
stained glass is what issupporting this podcast and I
will have opportunities for youto be a part of sponsoring me
and, as always, you can do thebuy me a cup of coffee thing in
the show notes.
But I will have some other waysthat you can be a part of
(20:42):
getting the word out about theimportance of healthy self-care
for ministry leaders.
Self-care for ministry leaders.
Hey, thanks for listening.
It is my deep desire andpassion to champion issues of
(21:02):
sustainability in ministry andfor your life, so I'm here to
help.
I stepped back from pastoralministry and I feel called to
help ministry leaders create andcultivate sustainability in
their lives so that they can gothe distance with God and
(21:23):
whatever plans that God has foryou.
I would love to help, I wouldconsider it an honor and in all
things, make sure you connect tothese sustainability practices
you know, so that you don'tbecome the Crabby Pastor.
Hey there, Margie Bryce here bringing you the Crabby
Pastor podcast, and I don'tthink you're going to be too
surprised to know that it's tooeasy today to become the Crabby
Pastor.
Our time together will give youfood for thought to help you be
the ministry leader, fullysurrendered to God's purposes
(00:24):
and living into whatever ittakes to get you there and keep
you there.
So we're talking aboutsustainability in ministry.
Hey there, before we getstarted on today's episode, I
want to give you thisopportunity.
Today's episode, I want to giveyou this opportunity to enhance
(00:49):
your self-care.
Part of self-care is havinganother individual come
alongside you, whether you'relooking at a coach, a spiritual
director or whatever means youhave, so that you're not walking
this journey alone, alone, thatyou have another person walking
with you, and that is theministerial coaching initiative.
I've been a part of that nowfor this past year and as a
(01:11):
coach, I have enjoyed walkingalongside ministry leaders.
This is a Lilly Foundationgrant that is providing coaching
through Point Loma Nazarene,their Center for Pastoral
Leadership.
So what I'm going to do is puta link in the show notes for
(01:33):
where you can go to get moreinformation.
You know, tell them the KrabbyPastors sent you.
They'll laugh about that, buttell them that I sent you.
So this is one of the avenueswhere I provide coaching for
ministry leaders and you know Ido it independently as well and
through several other places.
(01:54):
So I wanted to offer this toyou because you know, maybe
you'd like to try on coachingand maybe you'd like to make a
commitment to do this is eightsessions and there is a cost
involved.
It's a good deal because I was.
I'm always about the good dealalways.
So you know if you're going totry on coaching, you don't want
(02:17):
to try it on just once.
You know I'm going to have onesession just see how it goes.
I think you're at least goingto benefit from three to four to
get a sense of whether it's agood fit and how it's going to
operate for you.
Because coaching is its ownthing.
It's not exactly therapy, it'snot exactly a lot of stuff, but
(02:40):
it's its own entity that helpsyou discover and empowers you to
discover some new solutions toexisting situations or how you
want to manage yourself in themidst of your ministry context.
So maybe you want to check thisout.
The link is in the show notes.
It will be there through theend of the year and then the
(03:04):
program does start in January,so that's why it's there for
that long.
So I hope you'll consider this.
I've been working through a PDFfile that says 50 ways to
support your pastor across fivedimensions of welling, and I
worked on a good share of it inour last episode, and I want to
(03:27):
remind us that this connectsback to episode 80, where the
people at Westpath, which is anagency of the United Methodist
Church, identified fivedimensions of well-being
Physical, financial, emotional,spiritual and social.
Physical, financial, emotional,spiritual and social and these
50 ways are divided into eachone of these dimensions, and I
(03:57):
got through most of it.
But what I wanted to do wasfinish up the social dimension
here, because it's a reallyimportant area for you to
consider how it is that you'resupporting your own well-being.
Again, I want to remind youthat this document is available
in the show notes and I will besure to put that there so that
(04:17):
you have your own copy wheremaybe you want to discuss some
of this with your people inleadership.
I wanted to go through thissocial dimension and I think
what I want to start with thisis not necessarily in order that
(04:37):
it's on their happy sheet hereand again.
I do want to remind us that Ithink I think these apply
broadly to whatever denominationor tribe, or that you hang with
wherever God has planted yourfeet.
At ministry, let's say I thinkthese apply very broadly to the
(04:58):
life of ministry leaders and I'mstill pushing back on that 24-7
model that we have pushed intoand because I think we're overly
pushed into levels of successand frequently those levels of
success are connected to.
(05:18):
Now, some books say nickels andnoses, some say butts in the pew
and bucks.
That's another one where it's,you know, it's the money you
raise, it's it's the number ofpeople and certainly the number
of people I mean it's important.
On the other hand, it's good toremember and I was really
reminded of this Listen to I'venever listened to Christine Kane
(05:41):
in a passing the baton sermonthat she gave.
It's like 11 years ago.
Because I'm listening to it,I'm thinking when is it?
I don't know, I'm not even wasnever familiar with her before.
She's Australian and reallygreat word.
But it talks about how you'repassing.
(06:02):
Your main job is that you are aperson who is responsible to
pass a baton along to the nextgeneration of followers of Jesus
.
So that was a great, greatreminder about what it is and
what success really is, aboutbeing sure that the baton in the
race is passed to the personcoming up behind you that's
(06:26):
going to go on ahead of you inthe race.
So, anyway, I just want toremind us about success and have
that in proper perspective, forself-care reasons, because you
want to pace yourselfaccordingly.
You can't move far and fastcarrying a very heavy load.
(06:47):
You just you're gonna.
That's the recipe for burnout,actually.
So, and that has been my passionand concern, after having
served in pastoral ministry in acouple of different churches
where I brought somerevitalization in and got the
people up and serving, because Ikept thinking, well, what value
(07:08):
would Jesus have in having achurch that is just dotting its
I's and crossing its T's and notreally serving its community,
not really serving the purposesof God?
You know, god will just kind oflet you dwindle away because,
god's way nicer than I would be,I might be smoting, I'm smoting
(07:29):
and thinking it's going tomotivate people, which is just
ridiculous, I know.
But and that is why I am notGod right, for sure, for sure,
for sure.
So God's kindness leads us torepentance, right, keep that in
mind.
God's kindness leads us torepentance, right, keep that in
mind.
Okay, I'm going to go back tothese social dimensions, because
(07:49):
you're saying what?
Just get back to the list, willyou the ones I want to yammer
on about?
In the list of socialdimensions, near the end, it
says and again, these are kindof instructions to people who
are in charge of caring for thepastor in any local congregation
Avoid scheduling churchmeetings or activities requiring
(08:12):
the pastor's presence more thantwo nights per week.
Okay, now you know.
Again, this is in honor of paceyourself.
Pace yourself After having verylong work days and then they
roll into evenings that can veryeasily become at least two
(08:34):
12-hour days.
I've seen it happen, I've livedit before, and that just
anything beyond that is justmore than what you need to do it
.
That kind of fits in with theone that was from the emotional
dimension episode talking aboutidentifying how you work with
(08:56):
the pastor to identify whichchurch programs and activities
truly require the pastor'spresence, because Because in
some cases it doesn't we'retrying not to be character
driven or you know whatever.
Have an individual pastor, justbe all that and a bag of chips,
because it's too easy for peopleto get very attached to whoever
(09:19):
the pastor is, and then itbecomes about following the
pastor, and any good pastorknows that you want your people
to follow Jesus, right, not thepastor, as as much as that, you
know.
We secretly don't want to admitsomething like that.
But it's nice, you know, it'snice to to get the accolades,
(09:40):
it's nice to have the respectbutades, it's nice to have the
respect, but really you wantyour people to follow Jesus.
So we're talking about how thepastor's time is used here, and
this advocates no more than twonights a week should the pastor
have to haul themselves out.
Not only that, but many pastorshave families.
(10:01):
That, but many pastors havefamilies.
And when the kids get to be acertain age some friends have
called those the busy years, youknow, where you feel like
you're just driving kids andspectating.
There was one year, I think Iboy, I was so glad when golf
season came because all I had todo was pick them up at the 18th
hole.
You know, know, that's it, as Ihad gone through oh gosh
(10:23):
basketball.
And I had gone through whatelse?
Hockey, and I had gone throughbaseball season, yeah, so when
it was all in one year.
So, yeah, golf was a treat.
I just picked them up at theend, not that I didn't want to
see my kid golf, but you know, Imean that alone is taxing and
(10:45):
you can say, well, I'll justdump that on my spouse.
Yeah, no, you want to help, youwant to be a part of that, you
want to see that.
So, anyway, avoid more than twonights a week is what they're
advocating for.
Avoid more than two nights aweek is what they're advocating
(11:07):
for.
Okay, welcome the pastor'sspouse and family as a part of
the congregation and community,without unrealistic expectations
or demands such as there's asuch as here, such as expecting
the pastor's children to alwaysbe perfectly behaved, or
expecting the spouse to be anunpaid staff member.
(11:28):
Oh, my gosh, somebody out thereis applauding that.
That actually made it into inkon a paper somewhere.
And I, yeah, I that expectationof an unpaid staff member.
You know it's like oh, you canplay the piano, wink, wink.
(11:49):
You know why I don't get thissomething for nothing deal that
some churches seem to have.
And I, I experienced that manyyears ago when I was asked well,
you can be on my staff, what'sthe least amount that we can pay
you, which I thought was.
(12:10):
I thought this is a rudequestion, isn't it?
And I should have.
Had I been a little older youknow, female I might have said
something, but I wasn't.
And I just felt like I had togo home and calculate something
and I felt very pressuredbecause I thought, if I get this
(12:30):
wrong, I'm gonna, you know, notget the position.
Or if I, then if I state anamount that I think is an
appropriate pay, I might not getthe job.
Or maybe I should just say, oh,you don't have to pay me at all
, which then has yourcongregation not ascribing a
(12:52):
proper value to what you bringto the table.
So, you know, that might not bethe same in some nonprofit
startups or that kind of thing,but it was.
It was pressure.
It was pressure for, you know,wink, wink, how cheap can we get
you?
Which I think is an incrediblyrude question.
(13:13):
And the rude thing is a bigdeal, because it's love is
patient, love is kind, love isnot rude.
Just saying, let's see,encourage the pastor's
participation in a clergyaccountability support group and
allow him or her time duringthe work week to participate.
(13:33):
So, pastors, if you areattending a clergy
accountability or support groupin some fashion that counts as
your work hours.
That's part of what you arebeing, I guess I want to say
paid for.
You know that is a part of yourwork is to stay connected to
(13:54):
other pastors and be accountableand get the support that you
need from other people and havea place that you can again
process and you do not have toget off the clock to do that.
Just saying Encourage the pastorto socialize with others
outside the church in quotes,family with whom he or she can
(14:20):
step outside the pastoral rolefor a period of time, and this
is important.
This is a self-care thing.
What happens when you socialize?
Because that kind of goes handin hand with the next one.
So let me just include that forthe sake of conversation.
It's not really conversation,it's a monologue.
(14:41):
This is a monologue, but forthe sake of my monologue here,
understand that the socialevents with church members,
although it's fun for everyone,are not always truly social
events for the pastor, who canbe pulled into the pastoral role
at any time, and that's a thing.
(15:03):
That is definitely a thing thatyou get pulled into a pastoral
role when you are with churchmembers.
Not not always, not 100% of thetime, because I know somebody
saying well, I, you know mydoesn't work that way for me.
Well, yay for that and for youabout that.
(15:23):
But in many cases what happensis you know you put the pastor
hat off and then you put thepastor hat on and you know it's
a matter of am I now on or off?
And we need some off time.
We need time where we can takethe pastoral hat off.
So that's why it's important tosocialize with others outside
(15:47):
of your church family.
They also say respect thepastor's time, set aside to
spend time with their family.
Our first line of ministry isour family.
Really, I can't tell you howmany pastoral families have
really suffered because pastorshave, you know, set those things
(16:12):
aside to the detriment of theirfamilies and their marriages.
That is not.
I don't think that isGod-honoring, I just don't.
So you want to, for sure,support that, support the pastor
.
Also.
Here's another one Support thepastor in getting out of town
regularly, particularly whenserving in a small town, so they
(16:36):
can engage in activitiesoutside the church's direct
mission field.
Just saying you need to stepback from the work environment.
Yes, it's a calling, yes, it'sa vocation, but it's also a
demanding one, and you need tojust step back for a moment.
(16:56):
I think about when Jesusstepped back from the throngs of
people wanting stuff from himand went up to the mountain and
prayed.
Now maybe that wasn't social,but maybe he brought a disciple
or two.
Then it is sort of that's a bitof a stretch, but you kind of
get the picture.
Even Jesus stepped back for aminute and had to come up for
(17:17):
air.
And if Jesus had to come up forair, then I think we do as well
.
We do as well and I'm going tofinish up with this one.
Nobody ever encouraged me to dothis but encourage the pastor to
engage in hobbies and enjoyablerecreational activities outside
(17:41):
the church setting, and this isa facet of self-care that I
label as create and dream.
You need to have a hobby orsomething where, when you do it,
you lose track of time, andthat's because you can only
focus on that one thing, not onthe 50 or more things at the
(18:04):
church that are calling for yourattention at the church that
are calling for your attention.
And by focusing on just onething, actually neuroscience
says your brain rests a bit fromthe demand of a heavy load or
(18:25):
lots of things on your to-dolist.
All of that becomes for a timenon-existent and you can just
focus on one thing exclusively,so I'm going to leave that there
.
There's way more on that listand maybe you'd like a copy so
that you can see that someoneactually did write these things
down People in official capacity, people who care deeply for the
(18:50):
well-being of those who servein churches and church plants,
and so these are suggestions.
I guess I think they're morethan suggestions.
Really, I think it's more of alist of.
This is the way it ought to runfolks it out of, run folks and
(19:15):
how to support your, yourministry leader, your main
pastor in your church.
So maybe this episode and theone before is something you want
to share with church boardmembers.
You could use the podcast for adiscussion, along with the 50
ways sheet, and use that to talkthrough the things on the list
(19:37):
here that you want to own andmaybe the things that you don't,
and talk through why that is,and that way you can get the
support that you need from yourcongregation leaders.
Hey, friends, the Crabby Pastorpodcast is sponsored by Bryce
(20:01):
Art Glass and you can find thaton Facebook.
I make stained glass as part ofmy self-care, and also by Bryce
Coaching, where I coach ministryleaders and business leaders,
and so the funds that I generatefrom coaching and from making
(20:22):
stained glass is what issupporting this podcast and I
will have opportunities for youto be a part of sponsoring me
and, as always, you can do thebuy me a cup of coffee thing in
the show notes.
But I will have some other waysthat you can be a part of
(20:42):
getting the word out about theimportance of healthy self-care
for ministry leaders.
Self-care for ministry leaders.
Hey, thanks for listening.
It is my deep desire andpassion to champion issues of
(21:02):
sustainability in ministry andfor your life, so I'm here to
help.
I stepped back from pastoralministry and I feel called to
help ministry leaders create andcultivate sustainability in
their lives so that they can gothe distance with God and
(21:23):
whatever plans that God has foryou.
I would love to help, I wouldconsider it an honor and in all
things, make sure you connect tothese sustainability practices
you know, so that you don'tbecome the Crabby Pastor.
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