July 31, 2024 • 21 mins
Kathy was my spiritual director for about eight years. This means she endured A LOT because she dealt with ME.
Kathy passed away from Alzheimer's in January 2022. Her illness took her away too early from many who benefitted from her wisdom and wit. Here I'm sharing some of Kathy's best pieces of wisdom as a tribute to her.
Her influence on the ministry I am called to is profound. For one, I have a spiritual director bent that impacts how I coach others. I hope you find some treasures in this podcast that will be sustaining.
Kathy passed away from Alzheimer's in January 2022. Her illness took her away too early from many who benefitted from her wisdom and wit. Here I'm sharing some of Kathy's best pieces of wisdom as a tribute to her.
Her influence on the ministry I am called to is profound. For one, I have a spiritual director bent that impacts how I coach others. I hope you find some treasures in this podcast that will be sustaining.
This is a GUILT-FREE zone! So here's your friendly nudge about self-care and its importance for your family, friends, and those you serve in ministry.
Contact info:
Email me at crabbypastor@gmail.com with your input and ideas for burnout and leadership topics of interest or if you know someone who might be interesting to interview.
Visit my website:
YOUR LEADERSHIP COACH FOCUSED ON BURNOUT PREVENTION
Get your FREE Burnout Symptoms test to help you assess whether you are dealing with just general tiredness or something MORE.
CLICK HERE FOR THE BURNOUT SYMPTOMS TEST.
I love scouring around to find great content to share, and am always interested in feedback, if you are or know of someone willing to share their Back from Burnout story so we can all learn together, then CLICK HERE to email me.
And, if this is a reminder you wish to opt out of, that's fine too.
Blessings on your journey!
Margie
🦀 🦀 🦀
Find regular support on my Facebook group: Building Sustainability in Ministry Leaders: Beating Burnout.
Connect with me about
LEADERSHIP COACHING and Workshops...
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Margie (00:01):
Hey there, Margie Bryce here bringing you the Crabby
Pastor podcast, and I don'tthink you're going to be too
surprised to know that it's tooeasy today to become the Crabby
Pastor.
Our time together will give youfood for thought to help you be
the ministry leader, fullysurrendered to God's purposes
(00:24):
and living into whatever ittakes to get you there and keep
you there.
So we're talking aboutsustainability in ministry In
this episode of the KrabbyPastor podcast.
I am going to take a moment ofpersonal privilege to pay
(00:46):
tribute to Kathy Rakowski.
She was a spiritual directorthat I had for about eight years
and I wanted to take a momentto pay tribute to her as I
recently learned that she passedaway, and I want to say some
things about spiritual directorsand the kind of gift that she
(01:09):
was to me, and I have not foundanyone like her as of yet, so
that makes her even more special.
I got a spiritual directorbecause I kept having these
classes that talked about thepastor as a person and you
needed to have others walk withyou and journey with you.
(01:32):
For some, that means anaccountability group, for some
that means a coach, and I had acoach.
I was at the time, leading amerger of four and a half
churches.
But Kathy came alongside meeven earlier than that.
I was working through mydoctoral degree and that's when
I had another class that saidyou better get other people
(01:54):
around you.
And I had tried before and itreally bombed out and I griped
at God about that.
That's maybe why I call myselfa little crabby at times.
I was crabby to God about this.
That here you go, here's myassignment.
I'm attempting to fulfill thisassignment and I can't seem to
find others who would sit withme, walk with me.
(02:15):
So I decided I would look intoa retreat and I found this
retreat center that a friend hadrecommended to me and I saw a
link on there for spiritualdirectors and I thought, well, I
will give this a go, I will seewhat happens here.
(02:35):
In my opinion, I really did needa reality check from a
spiritual perspective, someoneelse's point of view.
You know I don't trust myselftotally all the time.
To be honest with myself, allthe time I think I'm pretty
brutal to myself really and canbe a little uncompassionate.
(02:56):
That's true, that's true.
But I was really hoping to findsomeone who would be honest
with me.
I really needed that, and soshe was that for me.
We met monthly for like eightyears eight years, you know,
when I first got connected toJesuit House where I sought
(03:20):
after the spiritual director, Ihad to interview like three and
so I interviewed Kathy first andshe was this fun and bubbly
neither of which, I wouldnecessarily say, are my top two
qualities here but she was funand bubbly and she was a
charismatic Catholic and I haveCatholic roots, catholic and I
(03:49):
have Catholic roots, I havefriends with charismatic
expressions and I just like theHoly Spirit part of that.
And so I went ahead andinterviewed to other people
anyway, even though I kind ofknew, you know, as Kathy would
say, you know when you need toknow.
So I'm taking this time to justreflect on the gift that
someone else can be in your life.
(04:11):
I can go on and on about howyou ought not to do this alone,
and that's true.
That's true.
We need to recognize and fullyembrace the gift that other
people can be to you and to me.
So here was the thing I did wantto find someone who would be
(04:33):
honest with me, and she was.
I mean, she would ask the rightkinds of questions or nudge me
in the right kind of direction.
But here was the even biggerthing.
The even bigger thing was thatI was totally honest with her.
I didn't hide behind anything,I didn't withhold what I really
(04:58):
thought and felt.
I just laid it out there.
And you know what this is soimportant, and I know this
develops over time, whetheryou're with somebody that you're
coaching or an accountabilitygroup or any of those types of
journeying together.
But it is so important that youhave someone with whom you can
(05:22):
really just be brutally honest.
You know you can be say to themI just don't see God in this.
Or you can say I don't think Ishould be doing this, I don't
feel like I'm a very good leader.
Or you can say these peopleannoy me.
(05:42):
You know you can say that thereand it's fine and they're
compassionate, they're kind,they love you.
Anyway, you need to find aplace where you can be totally,
totally honest with someone andjust remember it might take a
(06:03):
little bit of time for you.
Everybody needs that safe place.
Kathy was the most patientlistener probably on the planet
because because, as you probablycan guess, I can go on and on
about stuff and you know that'salmost like the curse of the
(06:25):
pastor and we just generally can.
But she would just patientlylisten and in her mind and in
her heart and in her spirit, inher heart and in her spirit,
she's seeking for God andseeking for God's response to me
.
Not that she was the mouthpieceof God, but she is seeking to
(06:52):
see where God, where she picksup that, where God's in action
around me and help me to seethat.
Because let's face it, peopleto see that, because let's face
it, people.
Some days we don't feel it,some days we don't.
But she was an extraordinarilythorough listener, truly an
in-the-moment person.
This is something that coacheslearn as well is how to be
(07:13):
totally in the moment andtotally focused on what the
other person is saying.
And she was just thistremendous gift to me Towards
the end of our time together,right when our relationship was
kind of mutating into, you know,a friendship where we just
would have lunch.
On occasion she started to havesome medical issues where she
(07:38):
would lose her words.
She called it, so we would betalking and she just kind of
struggled to find a word and Iwould help her and she would
explain to me that she was goingfor testing and she did end up
with an Alzheimer's kind ofdiagnosis kind of diagnosis, and
apparently, if you are in your60s and you get Alzheimer's,
(08:13):
it's a pretty fast deterioration, and so Kathy experienced that,
and she was a gift not just tome, but to many, many other
people.
I wanted to share with you,though, some things that she
said to me that I will alwayshold dear, always.
They're just a part of me nowthey just are.
The first one is God will letyou know when you need to know.
(08:35):
Now, how many of us here wantto know what's going to happen
next?
How many of us want to?
You know, we just want it allwritten out this is going to
happen and that's going tohappen, and that's going to
happen and that's going tohappen.
Or you think that nothing isgoing on around you, that
(08:57):
nothing's moving, nothing'sshaking, and so you know God
might be taking a nap somewhere.
I don't know.
You just have the sense thatnot much is happening, and I
know that Kathy looked at me oneday when I was just struggling
with those kinds of things.
I just was seeking for somedirection.
(09:18):
It just didn't feel like it wascoming, and she just said God
will let you know when you needto know.
So we need to trust and havefaith that God's going to give
you the FYI when you need thatinformation, not beforehand so
that you can walk around holdingit for a week or two or a month
, but so that you know it aroundholding it for a week or two or
(09:39):
a month, but so that you knowit when you need to know it,
exactly at the right moment, andGod won't let you down and just
not give you the FYI at all.
God just doesn't function likethat.
The other thing Kathy would sayto me is stop shooting on
(10:00):
yourself.
That's s-h-o-u-l-d.
Hyphen i-n-g.
Because I would sit there andsay I should be doing this, I
should be doing that, thisshould be looking like this,
this isn't looking like that, soI should be doing something
about that, I need to be this,that or the other thing.
(10:20):
And she would just stop me andsay you just need to stop
shitting all over yourself, juststop.
And you know what I needed,that I needed somebody to kind
of shake me at that moment andjust kind of say hey, hey,
you're being a little hard onyourself, because I don't know
(10:40):
of anyone that is harder on methan me and that just is who I
am, and maybe you're that too,or at the very least.
Well, I'm that Enneagram oneand we have that ongoing critic
thing going on where there'salways something.
But it's easy to look aroundand look at other people, other
(11:03):
ministries.
If you are the average churchin America I think we're now
down to 69 from 75 is theaverage size of a church in
America.
That's the bulk of the ministryleaders serving in a church
that size.
But then you look at some ofthese much, much larger churches
around us and it's easy tostart comparing yourself and
(11:25):
it's easy to give into that andthink, oh my goodness, I'm just
not making that big of an impactcompared to there and you just
have to understand that you arewhere you are because God
planted your feet there and youdo need to stop shitting all
over yourself.
(11:45):
Kathy was always great atpointing out when God had a
sense of humor about something.
She just says he's just.
She would always say he's acrazy guy.
He's a crazy guy, he has such asense of humor and I would just
laugh at that.
Her perspective was verygenuine, very bubbly, very
(12:07):
compassionate and I needed thatand I still need that I think we
all need that.
We need somebody that has asense of humor about our
situations for sure, for sureshe would always.
This was one of her favoritethings, because I was working on
a dissertation on how wellpastors understood kenosis.
(12:30):
That's something that I'm verypassionate about, about being
surrendered to God's purposes ina very spiritual way, and when
you're a ministry leader, that'spretty key actually that you
are really being surrendered toGod's purposes for you, for the
people over which God has givenyou charge and responsibility,
in a spiritual way.
(12:51):
And so anytime there was anopportunity where I was backed
into a corner about thissurrender issue in my life or in
my ministry, she was so greatat saying you are living your
dissertation, you are living it,you are just living it, and I
(13:12):
thought, yeah, yeah, that's yeah.
I mean at the moment I'd belike what, what?
It was like a wake-up call,because I think that's true.
I think that when God putssomething on your heart to live
into, you're going to encounterit in life and in ministry in
(13:33):
multiple ways, and it's the waythat God nurtures that seed
within you, to help it to sproutand help it to grow in
interesting ways.
And I would never, never, ever,have seen that without her
guidance and without herchronically I mean chronically
(13:57):
pointing that out about how yourdissertation work is that.
And when I go back and I lookthrough that material that I
worked on, sometimes I read itand go, oh my gosh, I can't
believe I wrote this.
But at the same token Irealized how much that work
(14:20):
became another part of my heartand life and my DNA probably my
spiritual DNA for sure.
And I look at that and I standin awe of where I am today and
how I am now called to helpencourage pastors to do
self-care.
And the spiritual part ofself-care is to be sure that you
(14:40):
are surrendered to God'spurposes.
Isn't that just amazing?
I wanted to say, isn't thatstinking amazing?
But I stopped myself.
So there I said it.
But I think that is absolutelyamazing and it just reaffirms
you.
So she was always great atpointing those things out.
The other one that she would sayto me and I don't know this is
(15:05):
a moment of vulnerability.
I guess she told me you don'thave trouble staying on the path
, because I think I was tellingher one day I don't even know if
I'm on the right path.
I feel like I'm just, you know,again, I was brutally honest
and this was my place where Icould be and she stopped me and
she says you don't have troublestaying on the path, you have
trouble finding peace on thepath.
(15:28):
Whoa, that was.
I had to stop.
You know, I'm sure I thoughtabout that for days, you know,
in my inability to just settledown and trust God with where I
was and to lean more fully intoGod and to just take a chill
(15:55):
pill.
Seriously, I hate that, but italways comes back to Margie
needs to take a chill pill, orit frequently comes back to that
anyway.
So it was reassuring that I dostay fairly well on the path
that God has for me.
But my prayer had been for yearsLord, help me to find rest in
(16:18):
you.
And isn't that interesting thatthat was my prayer for years
and that now I'm doing what I'mcalled to do to coach ministry
leaders, to encourage self-carefor ministry leaders, so that
you can find peace, that you canfind peace, all of us can find
(16:42):
peace on the path.
Because, even though I don'thave a pastoral role at the
moment although I guess I reallydo, I really do.
I feel like I'm your pastor.
Any ministry leader that I havethe privilege of working with,
I feel like I get to pastor them, and we need that.
We really do.
You know, there were days andtimes in my ministry where I
(17:02):
would say, oh my goodness, Ineed a pastor.
Where's a pastor?
And some of us have ministrysupervisors.
That could be that, and some ofus are a little hesitant about
sharing everything, and you knowall that that whole dynamic of
being weak and feeling weak andthen having your supervisor know
(17:25):
this about you, and all thatkind of thing.
But my ministry to this day,though, is helping you find some
peace on the path.
Maybe I can be that for you.
At the moment, I'm stillwrangling through how I can
honor Kathy's legacy in my life.
(17:47):
What can I do?
And at the moment because thisis actually how I found out
about Kathy's passing I'd hadsome phone connection over COVID
, and I was going to come outand visit, and she had some
illness it wasn't COVID, but itwas like a bacterial thing and
they said don't come over, she'snot feeling well today, and
that kind of thing, and so thatled me through last fall and and
(18:12):
into the winter, and, and Ijust I knew she was declining, I
knew she was deteriorating, Iknew we couldn't have the same
kind of wonderful conversationsthat we'd had over the years.
And I was very slow, very slow,and I regret this deeply in
trying to connect with her.
(18:33):
And by the time I did, I calledthere.
I noticed the answering machinemessage was just a little
different.
And I happened to Google hername and I saw her obituary and
that was very sad and I've stillbeen dealing with grieving that
loss.
And her husband, roger, did callme and talk to me and I have to
(18:58):
tell you that one thing thatalways gets to me is older
gentlemen crying.
For some reason that has aprofound impact on me.
And so Roger and I had a goodconversation and he was, you
know, heavily.
He's been in relationship withher for, you know, more than 50
(19:20):
years, and so he was in deep,deep grief.
And so far the only way that Ican think to honor her is to
call Roger once a month it's inmy phone now and just kind of do
a pastoral checkup.
You know, once a pastor, alwaysa pastor.
It's almost like you can't shutthat thing off.
(19:42):
And so I'm going to be lookingin subsequent days for other
ways that I can honor the legacythat she has been in my life
and in my ministry.
So I am praying that, eventhough this was a personal
privilege moment for this crabbypastor, that I have said some
(20:06):
things to encourage you to notwalk this path alone to find
that person that you can betotally honest with that person
that can then be a gift to you,because there's no way I could
capture everything that Kathywas to me.
(20:27):
There's no way I can captureeverything, but she was an
incredible blessing and thatwould be my prayer for you, for
your ministry, for your life, sothat it can ripple out into
your friends, your family andthe people to whom God has
called you to serve.
Hey, thanks for listening.
(20:50):
It is my deep desire andpassion to champion issues of
sustainability in ministry andfor your life, so I'm here to
help.
I stepped back from pastoralministry and I feel called to
help ministry leaders create andcultivate sustainability in
(21:13):
their lives so that they can gothe distance with God and
whatever plans that God has foryou.
I would love to help, I wouldconsider it an honor and, in all
things, make sure you connectto these sustainability
practices you know, so that youdon't become the Crabby Pastor.
Hey there, Margie Bryce here bringing you the Crabby
Pastor podcast, and I don'tthink you're going to be too
surprised to know that it's tooeasy today to become the Crabby
Pastor.
Our time together will give youfood for thought to help you be
the ministry leader, fullysurrendered to God's purposes
(00:24):
and living into whatever ittakes to get you there and keep
you there.
So we're talking aboutsustainability in ministry In
this episode of the KrabbyPastor podcast.
I am going to take a moment ofpersonal privilege to pay
(00:46):
tribute to Kathy Rakowski.
She was a spiritual directorthat I had for about eight years
and I wanted to take a momentto pay tribute to her as I
recently learned that she passedaway, and I want to say some
things about spiritual directorsand the kind of gift that she
(01:09):
was to me, and I have not foundanyone like her as of yet, so
that makes her even more special.
I got a spiritual directorbecause I kept having these
classes that talked about thepastor as a person and you
needed to have others walk withyou and journey with you.
(01:32):
For some, that means anaccountability group, for some
that means a coach, and I had acoach.
I was at the time, leading amerger of four and a half
churches.
But Kathy came alongside meeven earlier than that.
I was working through mydoctoral degree and that's when
I had another class that saidyou better get other people
(01:54):
around you.
And I had tried before and itreally bombed out and I griped
at God about that.
That's maybe why I call myselfa little crabby at times.
I was crabby to God about this.
That here you go, here's myassignment.
I'm attempting to fulfill thisassignment and I can't seem to
find others who would sit withme, walk with me.
(02:15):
So I decided I would look intoa retreat and I found this
retreat center that a friend hadrecommended to me and I saw a
link on there for spiritualdirectors and I thought, well, I
will give this a go, I will seewhat happens here.
(02:35):
In my opinion, I really did needa reality check from a
spiritual perspective, someoneelse's point of view.
You know I don't trust myselftotally all the time.
To be honest with myself, allthe time I think I'm pretty
brutal to myself really and canbe a little uncompassionate.
(02:56):
That's true, that's true.
But I was really hoping to findsomeone who would be honest
with me.
I really needed that, and soshe was that for me.
We met monthly for like eightyears eight years, you know,
when I first got connected toJesuit House where I sought
(03:20):
after the spiritual director, Ihad to interview like three and
so I interviewed Kathy first andshe was this fun and bubbly
neither of which, I wouldnecessarily say, are my top two
qualities here but she was funand bubbly and she was a
charismatic Catholic and I haveCatholic roots, catholic and I
(03:49):
have Catholic roots, I havefriends with charismatic
expressions and I just like theHoly Spirit part of that.
And so I went ahead andinterviewed to other people
anyway, even though I kind ofknew, you know, as Kathy would
say, you know when you need toknow.
So I'm taking this time to justreflect on the gift that
someone else can be in your life.
(04:11):
I can go on and on about howyou ought not to do this alone,
and that's true.
That's true.
We need to recognize and fullyembrace the gift that other
people can be to you and to me.
So here was the thing I did wantto find someone who would be
(04:33):
honest with me, and she was.
I mean, she would ask the rightkinds of questions or nudge me
in the right kind of direction.
But here was the even biggerthing.
The even bigger thing was thatI was totally honest with her.
I didn't hide behind anything,I didn't withhold what I really
(04:58):
thought and felt.
I just laid it out there.
And you know what this is soimportant, and I know this
develops over time, whetheryou're with somebody that you're
coaching or an accountabilitygroup or any of those types of
journeying together.
But it is so important that youhave someone with whom you can
(05:22):
really just be brutally honest.
You know you can be say to themI just don't see God in this.
Or you can say I don't think Ishould be doing this, I don't
feel like I'm a very good leader.
Or you can say these peopleannoy me.
(05:42):
You know you can say that thereand it's fine and they're
compassionate, they're kind,they love you.
Anyway, you need to find aplace where you can be totally,
totally honest with someone andjust remember it might take a
(06:03):
little bit of time for you.
Everybody needs that safe place.
Kathy was the most patientlistener probably on the planet
because because, as you probablycan guess, I can go on and on
about stuff and you know that'salmost like the curse of the
(06:25):
pastor and we just generally can.
But she would just patientlylisten and in her mind and in
her heart and in her spirit, inher heart and in her spirit,
she's seeking for God andseeking for God's response to me
.
Not that she was the mouthpieceof God, but she is seeking to
(06:52):
see where God, where she picksup that, where God's in action
around me and help me to seethat.
Because let's face it, peopleto see that, because let's face
it, people.
Some days we don't feel it,some days we don't.
But she was an extraordinarilythorough listener, truly an
in-the-moment person.
This is something that coacheslearn as well is how to be
(07:13):
totally in the moment andtotally focused on what the
other person is saying.
And she was just thistremendous gift to me Towards
the end of our time together,right when our relationship was
kind of mutating into, you know,a friendship where we just
would have lunch.
On occasion she started to havesome medical issues where she
(07:38):
would lose her words.
She called it, so we would betalking and she just kind of
struggled to find a word and Iwould help her and she would
explain to me that she was goingfor testing and she did end up
with an Alzheimer's kind ofdiagnosis kind of diagnosis, and
apparently, if you are in your60s and you get Alzheimer's,
(08:13):
it's a pretty fast deterioration, and so Kathy experienced that,
and she was a gift not just tome, but to many, many other
people.
I wanted to share with you,though, some things that she
said to me that I will alwayshold dear, always.
They're just a part of me nowthey just are.
The first one is God will letyou know when you need to know.
(08:35):
Now, how many of us here wantto know what's going to happen
next?
How many of us want to?
You know, we just want it allwritten out this is going to
happen and that's going tohappen, and that's going to
happen and that's going tohappen.
Or you think that nothing isgoing on around you, that
(08:57):
nothing's moving, nothing'sshaking, and so you know God
might be taking a nap somewhere.
I don't know.
You just have the sense thatnot much is happening, and I
know that Kathy looked at me oneday when I was just struggling
with those kinds of things.
I just was seeking for somedirection.
(09:18):
It just didn't feel like it wascoming, and she just said God
will let you know when you needto know.
So we need to trust and havefaith that God's going to give
you the FYI when you need thatinformation, not beforehand so
that you can walk around holdingit for a week or two or a month
, but so that you know it aroundholding it for a week or two or
(09:39):
a month, but so that you knowit when you need to know it,
exactly at the right moment, andGod won't let you down and just
not give you the FYI at all.
God just doesn't function likethat.
The other thing Kathy would sayto me is stop shooting on
(10:00):
yourself.
That's s-h-o-u-l-d.
Hyphen i-n-g.
Because I would sit there andsay I should be doing this, I
should be doing that, thisshould be looking like this,
this isn't looking like that, soI should be doing something
about that, I need to be this,that or the other thing.
(10:20):
And she would just stop me andsay you just need to stop
shitting all over yourself, juststop.
And you know what I needed,that I needed somebody to kind
of shake me at that moment andjust kind of say hey, hey,
you're being a little hard onyourself, because I don't know
(10:40):
of anyone that is harder on methan me and that just is who I
am, and maybe you're that too,or at the very least.
Well, I'm that Enneagram oneand we have that ongoing critic
thing going on where there'salways something.
But it's easy to look aroundand look at other people, other
(11:03):
ministries.
If you are the average churchin America I think we're now
down to 69 from 75 is theaverage size of a church in
America.
That's the bulk of the ministryleaders serving in a church
that size.
But then you look at some ofthese much, much larger churches
around us and it's easy tostart comparing yourself and
(11:25):
it's easy to give into that andthink, oh my goodness, I'm just
not making that big of an impactcompared to there and you just
have to understand that you arewhere you are because God
planted your feet there and youdo need to stop shitting all
over yourself.
(11:45):
Kathy was always great atpointing out when God had a
sense of humor about something.
She just says he's just.
She would always say he's acrazy guy.
He's a crazy guy, he has such asense of humor and I would just
laugh at that.
Her perspective was verygenuine, very bubbly, very
(12:07):
compassionate and I needed thatand I still need that I think we
all need that.
We need somebody that has asense of humor about our
situations for sure, for sureshe would always.
This was one of her favoritethings, because I was working on
a dissertation on how wellpastors understood kenosis.
(12:30):
That's something that I'm verypassionate about, about being
surrendered to God's purposes ina very spiritual way, and when
you're a ministry leader, that'spretty key actually that you
are really being surrendered toGod's purposes for you, for the
people over which God has givenyou charge and responsibility,
in a spiritual way.
(12:51):
And so anytime there was anopportunity where I was backed
into a corner about thissurrender issue in my life or in
my ministry, she was so greatat saying you are living your
dissertation, you are living it,you are just living it, and I
(13:12):
thought, yeah, yeah, that's yeah.
I mean at the moment I'd belike what, what?
It was like a wake-up call,because I think that's true.
I think that when God putssomething on your heart to live
into, you're going to encounterit in life and in ministry in
(13:33):
multiple ways, and it's the waythat God nurtures that seed
within you, to help it to sproutand help it to grow in
interesting ways.
And I would never, never, ever,have seen that without her
guidance and without herchronically I mean chronically
(13:57):
pointing that out about how yourdissertation work is that.
And when I go back and I lookthrough that material that I
worked on, sometimes I read itand go, oh my gosh, I can't
believe I wrote this.
But at the same token Irealized how much that work
(14:20):
became another part of my heartand life and my DNA probably my
spiritual DNA for sure.
And I look at that and I standin awe of where I am today and
how I am now called to helpencourage pastors to do
self-care.
And the spiritual part ofself-care is to be sure that you
(14:40):
are surrendered to God'spurposes.
Isn't that just amazing?
I wanted to say, isn't thatstinking amazing?
But I stopped myself.
So there I said it.
But I think that is absolutelyamazing and it just reaffirms
you.
So she was always great atpointing those things out.
The other one that she would sayto me and I don't know this is
(15:05):
a moment of vulnerability.
I guess she told me you don'thave trouble staying on the path
, because I think I was tellingher one day I don't even know if
I'm on the right path.
I feel like I'm just, you know,again, I was brutally honest
and this was my place where Icould be and she stopped me and
she says you don't have troublestaying on the path, you have
trouble finding peace on thepath.
(15:28):
Whoa, that was.
I had to stop.
You know, I'm sure I thoughtabout that for days, you know,
in my inability to just settledown and trust God with where I
was and to lean more fully intoGod and to just take a chill
(15:55):
pill.
Seriously, I hate that, but italways comes back to Margie
needs to take a chill pill, orit frequently comes back to that
anyway.
So it was reassuring that I dostay fairly well on the path
that God has for me.
But my prayer had been for yearsLord, help me to find rest in
(16:18):
you.
And isn't that interesting thatthat was my prayer for years
and that now I'm doing what I'mcalled to do to coach ministry
leaders, to encourage self-carefor ministry leaders, so that
you can find peace, that you canfind peace, all of us can find
(16:42):
peace on the path.
Because, even though I don'thave a pastoral role at the
moment although I guess I reallydo, I really do.
I feel like I'm your pastor.
Any ministry leader that I havethe privilege of working with,
I feel like I get to pastor them, and we need that.
We really do.
You know, there were days andtimes in my ministry where I
(17:02):
would say, oh my goodness, Ineed a pastor.
Where's a pastor?
And some of us have ministrysupervisors.
That could be that, and some ofus are a little hesitant about
sharing everything, and you knowall that that whole dynamic of
being weak and feeling weak andthen having your supervisor know
(17:25):
this about you, and all thatkind of thing.
But my ministry to this day,though, is helping you find some
peace on the path.
Maybe I can be that for you.
At the moment, I'm stillwrangling through how I can
honor Kathy's legacy in my life.
(17:47):
What can I do?
And at the moment because thisis actually how I found out
about Kathy's passing I'd hadsome phone connection over COVID
, and I was going to come outand visit, and she had some
illness it wasn't COVID, but itwas like a bacterial thing and
they said don't come over, she'snot feeling well today, and
that kind of thing, and so thatled me through last fall and and
(18:12):
into the winter, and, and Ijust I knew she was declining, I
knew she was deteriorating, Iknew we couldn't have the same
kind of wonderful conversationsthat we'd had over the years.
And I was very slow, very slow,and I regret this deeply in
trying to connect with her.
(18:33):
And by the time I did, I calledthere.
I noticed the answering machinemessage was just a little
different.
And I happened to Google hername and I saw her obituary and
that was very sad and I've stillbeen dealing with grieving that
loss.
And her husband, roger, did callme and talk to me and I have to
(18:58):
tell you that one thing thatalways gets to me is older
gentlemen crying.
For some reason that has aprofound impact on me.
And so Roger and I had a goodconversation and he was, you
know, heavily.
He's been in relationship withher for, you know, more than 50
(19:20):
years, and so he was in deep,deep grief.
And so far the only way that Ican think to honor her is to
call Roger once a month it's inmy phone now and just kind of do
a pastoral checkup.
You know, once a pastor, alwaysa pastor.
It's almost like you can't shutthat thing off.
(19:42):
And so I'm going to be lookingin subsequent days for other
ways that I can honor the legacythat she has been in my life
and in my ministry.
So I am praying that, eventhough this was a personal
privilege moment for this crabbypastor, that I have said some
(20:06):
things to encourage you to notwalk this path alone to find
that person that you can betotally honest with that person
that can then be a gift to you,because there's no way I could
capture everything that Kathywas to me.
(20:27):
There's no way I can captureeverything, but she was an
incredible blessing and thatwould be my prayer for you, for
your ministry, for your life, sothat it can ripple out into
your friends, your family andthe people to whom God has
called you to serve.
Hey, thanks for listening.
(20:50):
It is my deep desire andpassion to champion issues of
sustainability in ministry andfor your life, so I'm here to
help.
I stepped back from pastoralministry and I feel called to
help ministry leaders create andcultivate sustainability in
(21:13):
their lives so that they can gothe distance with God and
whatever plans that God has foryou.
I would love to help, I wouldconsider it an honor and, in all
things, make sure you connectto these sustainability
practices you know, so that youdon't become the Crabby Pastor.
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.