October 23, 2024 • 33 mins
What truly lies behind Pastor Appreciation Month? Join me, Margie Bryce, your leadership coach who focuses on burnout prevention on the Crabby Pastor podcast as we unravel the tangled web of emotions and expectations surrounding this special time. From the joys of receiving unexpected gifts like bath bombs and meat packages to the bittersweet reality of being forgotten, we dive into stories shared by our vibrant online community.
The complexities of Pastor Appreciation Month are akin to the mixed feelings experienced during holiday gift-giving. Ministry leaders are often caught in a whirlwind of expectations, grappling with the human desire for validation. We explore how societal norms and gender dynamics intersect, sometimes leaving clergy feeling undervalued both at home and within the church. The ripple effect on pastors' spouses and the influential role of social media also come into play, challenging us to rethink how appreciation should be expressed. This conversation peels back the layers of what it means to appreciate our leaders genuinely.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Margie (00:01):
Hey there, it's Margie Bryce, your host of the C Pastor
podcast, where we talk aboutall things sustainability,
whether it's sustainability inministry, in your personal life
and we acknowledge that thechurch is in a transitional time
, so we hit topics there toothat are going to stretch your
(00:22):
mind and the way you lead,especially how you lead yourself
, so that you don't become thecrabby pastor.
Hey there, friends, it's thattime of year again it's Pastor
(00:44):
Appreciation Month, and I knowthat resonates in many different
ways with many of you, and so,in honor of Pastor Appreciation
Month, I'm going to be sharingtwice in October, two different
previous podcasts, that kind ofaddress and get at some of that.
(01:06):
Hopefully it will help putthings in perspective for you.
So just know that I'm thinkingabout you, rooting for you and
praying for you as you navigatePastor Appreciation Month.
We are going to be talkingabout pastor appreciation month
(01:27):
again.
You know and you're saying,have we not talked about this
enough?
But I got to tell you this isone of the highest,
statistically highest podcasttopics that there are, right up
there with burnout stories.
People seem to like those andlike to hear the redemption
stories and those.
I don't know what to say aboutPastor Appreciation Month, but I
(01:50):
decided to engage people on theFacebook group into this
discussion and I'm not going toname any names or say what you
said, but I'm just going to.
Well, I'm going to say what yousaid, I'm just not going to
attribute it to you.
So no calling names here.
I'm not naming names oranything like that.
(02:11):
But I wanted to just talk aboutthis because at the end of the
day, you know, I'm wondering dowe need to circulate a petition
to get this thing stopped?
I don't know, I don't knowcompetition to get this thing
stopped?
I don't know, I don't know.
Anyway, I'm going to get atthat in just a second here, but
I wanted to take a moment ofprivilege here because I'm the
(02:32):
host and I can do this and Ilook at countries and places
where my podcast is downloaded.
It's kind of interesting andone just took my breath away,
like last week when I looked atit, and it was Monaco, monaco.
(02:55):
Somebody in Monaco downloadedthe podcast.
Maybe somebody was on vacationin Monaco, I don't know.
I sure would like to go at somepoint, just kind of so I could
say I've been there, but I guessyou need to know why.
That's fascinating for me, andthis is just a point of minutiae
(03:15):
for you but my mother wasBritish I think I've said that
on this podcast before and I wasactually born in England as
well.
Well, so there's the MerryCrown of England on my birth
certificate and my mother wouldtalk a lot about royalty.
So I know way more about whatthe whole lineage thing and how
(03:38):
that works, because my mom wouldtell me that sort of stuff or,
as they would say in England, mymom would tell me all of that.
And second, in line to talkingabout British royalty, my mother
would talk about Princess Graceof Monaco a lot, a lot, a lot.
So I was just pumped to seethat somebody had listened to
(04:06):
the podcast from Monaco.
So hello if you're out thereagain and still.
So I'm going to move on, though,to.
That's quite the transition andsegue, isn't it?
To the issue of pastorappreciation.
That's what I'm going to do.
So I started out theconversation with a question on
(04:33):
the Facebook group self-care andsustainability, the number four
ministry leaders.
So I started out there and Iasked people what was the worst
pastor appreciation month thatyou or a friend there's your out
, you or a friend hadencountered?
(04:53):
And you know, we got, I gotsome of what I expected.
The entire month came and wentand not even so much as a card
came and went, and not even somuch as a card with nothing in
it.
A card with nothing in it wasgiven.
I was like, okay, yeah, andthere was yes, yes, and like,
(05:14):
like and well, not really likein this case, but agreement, I
guess I would say it would be.
Agreement was offered.
So somebody said what's pastorappreciation month, you know?
And I kind of get it.
It seems to create a bit oftrauma for those of us in
(05:39):
ministry.
I, of course, always hadsomebody chime in and say
they've, you know, they've neverhad a bad one yet and nobody
they know has ever had a bad oneyet.
And I thought, well, you know,I mean, that's nice.
I think that was the essence ofwhy it was created at the get
go.
(05:59):
So you know, it's a matter hereof people buying into this idea
and some people don't seem toknow that Pastor Appreciation
Month is a thing and they wouldbe that people.
It's like expecting a Christmaspresent when people don't know.
(06:23):
I don't know, that's maybe nota good analogy.
It sort of is, but it isn't.
But you know, if somebodydidn't even know about Christmas
which is pretty tricky to do,but if somebody didn't know
about it, why would you expectto receive a gift, right?
So, okay, I moved into.
(06:45):
Then I thought I'd asked the the, you know, started out with the
one question there and then Imoved into what's the most
amazing pastor appreciation giftyou've ever received.
I was hoping, you know, maybesomebody got a hot tub out there
, I don't know.
Or maybe somebody got a a tripto somewhere exotic, maybe to
(07:06):
Monaco, I don't know and so Imoved into that.
You know, we got into adiscussion about bath bombs,
which you know, hey, I got, Igot a whole education about bath
bombs in here and obviously Ithink this was the female
ministry leaders that weretalking about bath bombs.
(07:27):
Somebody got meat, somebody hadpork chops, hamburgers, steaks,
and they thought that waspretty amazing meat.
I thought that's a pretty goodone, especially at the going
rate of meat these days.
But then we got back intonobody.
(07:50):
Somebody got nothing, and theyhad been involved with this
congregation for a number ofyears.
And you know, here, stand upand let's all clap for the
ministry leader.
Here stand up and let's allclap for the ministry leader and
you know, I think there alwaysshould have at least been
chocolate, not the cheap stuff.
(08:11):
So another person said they getcards, baked goods, love
offerings, and then they saidthat, gee, reading all this
other stuff about what otherpastors have received or not
received has made them feel alittle grateful for what they
are getting.
So, but you know, homemadecookies, pies, breads, that
(08:32):
wouldn't be such a bad gig toget.
So somebody got an extra dayoff given to them, which I
thought, okay, that's prettyhigh in the amazing charts
actually.
I mean, I asked what they didwith it.
But you know, it was one ofthose days where you could just
(08:54):
actually do your self-care andfritter time away or maybe
actually do nothing.
There's an idea Somebody gotfunds for a weekend away and
they went to the nation'scapital and here we go back to
nothing.
Nothing, and they had servedthe congregation since 1980.
(09:16):
So that was a littledisconcerting, as always.
And then they've got, let's see, self-made gifts.
That's a great expression ofcare.
So, okay, we got a great listof things.
(09:36):
I'm not sure which one I likethe best.
If it was a meet or the day off, those were pretty good ones,
but people always want to add inhere that they it came and went
.
A whole month came and went andnobody did anything.
(09:58):
So so, lastly, I just kind offelt like I wanted to.
I went finally to this post andasked why is Pastor Appreciation
Month such a hot button issue?
Because it seems to garner alot of attention with the
podcast and same thing withcommentary in the Facebook page,
(10:21):
and so you know, I think I'vehit on something and it did.
It is of concern If you havesat with ministry leaders and
they're talking about early inthe month what they got, and you
know you're waiting and lookingand nothing and nothing and
nothing.
You know you kind of it's likeChristmas I'm back to Christmas,
(10:44):
but it's kind of like Christmaslike your siblings got gifts
and you got a lump of coal.
It feels like that.
That's what our emotions dowith it.
So I wanted to ask why theythought, why ministry leaders
think it's a hot button issueand of course you know I got the
why ministry leaders think it'sa hot button issue and of
(11:06):
course you know I got the.
It's not an issue and God hasgraced us with appreciation and
a lot of other kinds ofappreciation goes on throughout
the year and I think that'sthat's a fair comment, that
really is absolutely fair, andsometimes we get hung up on this
and we want that kind ofappreciation or validation shown
(11:31):
.
You know, congregants might say, well, we pay you and I'm like,
well, yes, that is true, butmaybe maybe we just want that
kind of validation because theseare the people we serve and
(11:51):
when we spend a lot of timecreating messages and we work
really hard to create messagesthat connect with our people,
well then we just would like andit's not like when they go out
at the end of a worship serviceand if you are one of those
pastors that stand at the back,I don't know if we're shaking
(12:13):
hands with everybody anymore,but you know, nice message, nice
message, nice message that'sdifferent than and we appreciate
that you serve us and that Godhas placed you here.
One person here said why Underthe why is this a hot button
(12:35):
issue?
Because we're supposed to havesome super special connection
with God and we live up on topof a pole where the world can
marvel at our piety and faith.
When the truth is, we are oftenmore messed up than our
congregants and there is a lotof truth to unpack to that.
A lot.
Actually, it's very true thatthe leaders are usually the ones
(13:01):
that have the most trauma andusually we have connected with
God's healing or God's power inour lives in pretty remarkable
ways, and it's because of thatvery thing that we want to pass
it on, that we want to be theones that help others find what
(13:24):
we have been so blessed to find.
But that does not mean that weare not a little traumatized or
the most messed up in the entiregroup.
That is very true.
And you know, I guess I'll addin here that if you feel like
(13:45):
you have never identified thoseshadow side kinds of things that
drew you, feel like you havenever identified those shadow
side kinds of things that drewyou into ministry, it's a good
idea to check into that, just soyou're aware.
I mean, we all carry baggage,but it's a great idea to know
exactly what that baggage is,because that will help you
should a congregant trigger you,which you know, that's like oh
(14:10):
eye roll for me here.
So I just want to mention that.
Let's see, we all want to beacknowledged for what we do and
that doesn't always happen.
And here you go, I have to goback to remember, remembering
who, who called me and why I dowhat I do it.
It is for Jesus, but it canstill hurt sometimes.
(14:32):
Why does it still hurt?
Because we are human, human,human.
So a little bit more pushbackon.
I didn't really know that thiswas a hot button issue.
I think it is with some people,but it's not with others.
Obviously, somebody said thatthey thought it'd be interesting
(14:55):
to see if gender made adifference and whether the
congregation expressed gratitudeor not.
And women are expected tofulfill roles and expectations
without being thanked, just likeat home.
Let's unpack that for just asecond.
And yeah, I don't know whetherthis means that.
(15:19):
Perhaps you know, after I got tothis point with I think it was
around this comment or so, Ithought maybe we need to be
circulating a petition to nothave this anymore.
Is this helpful?
I mean, is it?
How good is it for thankfulnessand appreciation, which that's
(15:40):
why we have other holidays youknow, mother's Day, father's Day
where you can show yourappreciation.
But some people feel like maybethey would like to just do it
just because they'reappreciative, not because it's
in that required month when youshould be showing appreciation.
I don't know, I have no ideathis was an interesting post
(16:05):
here that this was a femaleministry leader.
It says my husband takes it hardwhen they forget, you know,
your husband's a great guy.
I mean, that is so sweet there,you know, but that's a piece
that we don't often think about,that our spouses are sitting
there watching this as well, aresitting there watching this as
(16:35):
well, and if no appreciation isshown, that's, that's a tough, a
tough thing to take, absolutelya tough thing.
So now we're blaming socialmedia, which I thought you know.
Yeah, we're all over that.
We try to keep our finger onthe pulse.
But, you know, if youchronically see pastors thanking
their congregations for youknow, the vacation to monaco, or
the amazing gifts, dinners andeverything you know, that can
(16:59):
make it tricky.
You know, we're still human, wetry not to take it so serious.
This is when I did jump in andsaid you know, maybe we should
start a petition to you know,let's say let's not do this
anymore, let's not.
You know.
And I did get a couple ofcomments.
(17:21):
Oh, they said it's likesweetest day, which you know,
sweetest day is a hallmarkholiday.
No offense to the fine folks atHallmark, but it is.
It's like Grandparents Day, youknow.
It's a I don't know reason tobuy a card, I don't know.
I did get some yay on, a littlebit of yay anyway, with let's
(17:45):
pass a petition around.
But the Hallmark holiday ouridea was kind of interesting.
Maybe if we ditched it and justsaid love and appreciation
should be shown year-round, Imean, maybe this is something
that all of us need to getbetter at showing appreciation
to the people around us.
Maybe this should, should be.
(18:07):
You know, we all talk aboutChristmas and how we all have
enough stuff.
Maybe this is a point thatcould be made is that we could
make a big list of people weneed to show appreciation to,
and you know if you can come upwith 12, that's one person a
month or something, and I thinkthat might be a great way.
(18:30):
It's not the solution to thisto the pastor appreciation month
, but this was a great comment.
People want to be noticed andappreciated and, in my humble
opinion, ministry leaders longfor validation and since
ministry is such a performancedriven and the word job is in
(18:51):
quotes, we constantly need tohear from someone that we're
doing a good job, so we can thencompare ourselves to other
ministers and thus we canconclude whether we are
successful or not.
And that always reminds me ofsitting in with a bunch of
ministry leaders and we had togo around and they said oh yeah,
(19:11):
we always are kind of carpentabout stuff here.
Let's go around the room andsay a blessing that is in your
life or something good.
And we did get to oneindividual who decided that they
were thankful for the $5million addition that is going
on at their church and I thoughtdid you have to say the number?
(19:34):
You know there are somechurches here that the whole
building and the whole shebangis not valued at that number
that you just tossed out.
So yeah, we kind of are alittle comparison.
We can say Don't compareyourself to other people, but
sometimes we do, sometimes we do.
(20:00):
So this person brought up, thatsame person brought up, and on
that fretful and continualhamster wheel we keep running.
Yes, we do, we compareourselves and we are trying to
decide whether we're successfulor not, when really, I mean,
this is a one-on-one thingbetween you and God as to
(20:21):
whether you're successful andthat's a pretty private thing.
But they also added If you giveme a gift card to Buc-ee's,
that means I'm doing a good job.
The land where there's 500flavors of sunflower seeds and
jerky, I don't know.
And if it's an amount, well,that little sunflower seed thing
(20:45):
was my editorial comment.
But this person said if it's anamount more than my fellow
minister, well shoot, I must bedoing good.
And I thought, wow, even 10bucks to Buc-ee's would be just
fun, just fun.
So how do we find our validationin what we do?
Our validation in what we do?
(21:06):
And maybe all of us Christians,just as Christians, forget the
ministry leader piece for amoment.
Maybe we should be seeking justto validate other people when
it is a real heartfelt thing,and maybe we need to be more
grateful.
I know a lot of people spendNovember doing that.
(21:28):
You know we spend Novembersaying 30 days of thankfulness
or something, and you see peopleposting on social media about
that.
So we're not sure.
Still, some are not sure.
It really is a hot button issue,but pastors do appreciate it
when the congregation makes apoint to do something to
(21:48):
recognize a month, but it's notnecessary to the rhythm of
ministry.
Yeah, you know, the localchurch does have a different
calendar than hallmark.
I'm just going to leave thatthere we really do have a
different calendar going on andwe do mark time in a different
(22:09):
way.
But yeah, it's nice, but it'suh, not necessary.
Now here we get down tosomebody being brutally honest
and saying they're notcomfortable with it really at
all.
They did serve a church and thechurch just did a more broad
thing with thanking all thevolunteers as opposed to
(22:32):
singling out the leaders.
So, hey, that's not a bad idea.
Maybe we need to be moreappreciative people in general.
Somebody said something aboutpastors always getting perks and
I thought did I miss the bosson this?
(22:52):
What perks?
What perks?
What have I missed out on here?
Maybe they feel that that's toomuch than to have pastor
appreciation in addition to allthose perks that we get.
And, like I said, if you knowwhere the perk box was or is you
know, let me know, because Imissed that when I was serving
(23:17):
More people who served a churchwhere it was not recognized and
More people saying we could justbag the whole thing.
Now, if we're saying that wecould bag the whole thing, then
the question is how could wethen live into that in our
(23:39):
congregation and just have itnot be a thing at all?
Which is why, at the end of theday here, I'm still wondering
how you could send out apetition I don't even know where
you'd send it to and either sayyou're going to or you're not
going to.
Now, keep in mind I just readsomething from Westpath the
(24:02):
people that are an agency of theUnited Methodist Church, and on
the list of that is you need tobe doing this.
So either our laity and theleadership of whichever
denomination where God hasplanted your feet, either they
need to get with the program andget the people to do this,
(24:24):
Because somebody brought upalong here, you know, as the
pastor, you don't want to standup and say, okay, everybody, now
we have to do pastorappreciation month, because all
y'all need to grow inappreciation, you know, and then
after you say that you need toduck because the rocks and or
rotten fruit are going to comeflying at you and besides that,
(24:47):
that's pretty awkward.
It's very awkward.
It's very awkward for us whenwe have to say, okay, it's time
for you to do your review of meand decide whether you're going
to give me a raise or not.
We get stuck doing a lot ofawkward stuff and this is just
awkward.
At times.
You know who likes awkward.
(25:10):
Does anybody here like awkward?
So I had one response.
That was I mean, it was a big.
It's a big, big paragraph and Iliked it a lot, not because
they said they wish it would beabandoned, but because there
were a lot of other goodthoughts in here.
(25:30):
It says circumstances inindividual churches and among
individuals themselves is verynuanced and at times complicated
.
The reasons people offerappreciation or not are not
consistent enough for one tomeasure their entire worth to a
congregation, or even part of it, by the response to that annual
(25:52):
observation.
So how do you gauge your peopleby?
Oh, my people are just.
I don't know they're turds.
Because they don't do this, wecan't say that it's bad theology
.
Besides, this person went on tosay I've been in ministry for
40 years and found many churchesare simply unaware and, at the
risk of looking like you'refishing for compliments, few of
(26:15):
us are going to make thatannouncement anyway.
Again, another person says it'slike sweetest day easy to
overlook, especially if you'renot a pastor.
Sometimes leadership changescan muddy the waters and people
are still dealing with thatchange.
(26:36):
Some groups in the church aresupposed to.
You don't remember the pastorand sometimes it just gets
missed.
It just gets missed, it says.
When my spouse and I were poorand struggling kids in our first
church, our small churchesshowered us in that month
(26:57):
because they knew our need.
This is kind of a good picture.
Fast forward to oursubstantially advanced
circumstance in a much largercontext.
Our current church doesn'tofficially recognize it at all.
It leaves words of appreciationto individuals in the course of
the year as persons are somoved.
(27:18):
This includes no formalChristmas gift by the church to
the pastors.
All staff are remembered,however, to receive gifts of
appreciation by a larger churchon top of substantial pay and
other perks of the job.
Now here this person spells outthe perks which I was like.
(27:38):
Well, I can't recall gettingany of those, but I've heard of
people getting them unused.
Football tickets, theatertickets, invites to the country
club for dinner, individualChristmas gifts, honorariums etc
.
Would just be well unethical atmost and just counter to our
Christian witness at best.
(27:59):
Hmm, then of course there areindividuals who may use the
opportunity to relate passive,aggressively towards the pastor.
I thought, oh good heavens.
By withholding acknowledgementand goodwill Bottom line, this
(28:21):
ministry leader doesn't see ithaving consistent benefits to
the soul of a pastor byobserving the month consistent
benefits to the soul of a pastor.
By observing the month.
I'd rather see our institutionsand institutional leaders
invest highly in mental healthinitiatives such as mandatory
(28:41):
workshops and classes, boy.
And then this person finishedup by saying that we're
sacrificing too many giftedleaders to pain, despair and
isolation.
So maybe, maybe the best pastorappreciation gift you could
(29:03):
give somebody would be a seriesof sessions with a mental health
counselor.
But I you know this person hada lot of really good thinking
going on in here, so theyfinished their thoughts with I
completely acknowledge that manyhardworking pastors are
deprived of the encouragingwords and need it as desperately
(29:25):
as a cool drink of water.
However, I found that focusingon meaningful individual
relationships year-round andpositive people who enliven
ministry tend to have all theacknowledgement needed inherent
in them.
So I'm going to leave thatthere, and I still have
(29:49):
questions about whether whatshould happen is we should not
celebrate it or ask for mentalhealth services, because I
thought that was probably aboutthe best suggestion so that we
can keep ourselves in check andmaybe so that we can hash around
(30:12):
with a neutral person aboutwhether and why Pastor
Appreciation Month is or is notimportant to us and where we
could file that to us and wherewe could file that.
(30:35):
So thanks again for listeningand I hope this has been helpful
, or just another way that wecan just walk together, journey
together and hash around theissues and challenges and topics
of the day.
Hey friends, I want to thank youso much for listening to the
(30:57):
Krabby Pastor podcast.
As always, I do this for you sothat you can take that next
step towards some healthyself-care, but at the same time,
I'm always interested in whatyou're interested about.
So if you have some suggestionsfor me, you can email me at
crabbypastor at gmail, and I forsure, for sure, will take that
(31:22):
into consideration.
And maybe you even have a greatperson that you would like for
me to interview along the linesof something self-care or
something that is connected tothose topics and leadership.
Even, for sure, drop me a Gmailand always, always.
(31:42):
I appreciate you sharing thispodcast with friends.
I really love it when I hearthat that's being done.
So thank you, thank you inadvance.
How's that?
I will say that, and I want toremind you also that there is a
burnout symptoms test on mywebsite at margiebryce dot com,
(32:08):
and I will put that website inthe show notes, because it is
b-r-y-c-e margiebryce dot comand you know for sure you're
going to want to check that out.
And here's a moment of realconfession here.
The link to the burnoutquestionnaire was a little
(32:28):
dysfunctional and I had someinteresting surprises when I
looked at the back end of whatwas going on on the website.
So it is for sure repaired andI want you to go and get that
burnout questionnaire.
If you're wondering whetheryour lack of motivation, lack of
interest and all that isburnout or not.
(32:50):
This should help you make anassessment.
So thanks again for listening,be blessed and don't forget, do
your self-care.
Hey there, it's Margie Bryce, your host of the C Pastor
podcast, where we talk aboutall things sustainability,
whether it's sustainability inministry, in your personal life
and we acknowledge that thechurch is in a transitional time
, so we hit topics there toothat are going to stretch your
(00:22):
mind and the way you lead,especially how you lead yourself
, so that you don't become thecrabby pastor.
Hey there, friends, it's thattime of year again it's Pastor
(00:44):
Appreciation Month, and I knowthat resonates in many different
ways with many of you, and so,in honor of Pastor Appreciation
Month, I'm going to be sharingtwice in October, two different
previous podcasts, that kind ofaddress and get at some of that.
(01:06):
Hopefully it will help putthings in perspective for you.
So just know that I'm thinkingabout you, rooting for you and
praying for you as you navigatePastor Appreciation Month.
We are going to be talkingabout pastor appreciation month
(01:27):
again.
You know and you're saying,have we not talked about this
enough?
But I got to tell you this isone of the highest,
statistically highest podcasttopics that there are, right up
there with burnout stories.
People seem to like those andlike to hear the redemption
stories and those.
I don't know what to say aboutPastor Appreciation Month, but I
(01:50):
decided to engage people on theFacebook group into this
discussion and I'm not going toname any names or say what you
said, but I'm just going to.
Well, I'm going to say what yousaid, I'm just not going to
attribute it to you.
So no calling names here.
I'm not naming names oranything like that.
(02:11):
But I wanted to just talk aboutthis because at the end of the
day, you know, I'm wondering dowe need to circulate a petition
to get this thing stopped?
I don't know, I don't knowcompetition to get this thing
stopped?
I don't know, I don't know.
Anyway, I'm going to get atthat in just a second here, but
I wanted to take a moment ofprivilege here because I'm the
(02:32):
host and I can do this and Ilook at countries and places
where my podcast is downloaded.
It's kind of interesting andone just took my breath away,
like last week when I looked atit, and it was Monaco, monaco.
(02:55):
Somebody in Monaco downloadedthe podcast.
Maybe somebody was on vacationin Monaco, I don't know.
I sure would like to go at somepoint, just kind of so I could
say I've been there, but I guessyou need to know why.
That's fascinating for me, andthis is just a point of minutiae
(03:15):
for you but my mother wasBritish I think I've said that
on this podcast before and I wasactually born in England as
well.
Well, so there's the MerryCrown of England on my birth
certificate and my mother wouldtalk a lot about royalty.
So I know way more about whatthe whole lineage thing and how
(03:38):
that works, because my mom wouldtell me that sort of stuff or,
as they would say in England, mymom would tell me all of that.
And second, in line to talkingabout British royalty, my mother
would talk about Princess Graceof Monaco a lot, a lot, a lot.
So I was just pumped to seethat somebody had listened to
(04:06):
the podcast from Monaco.
So hello if you're out thereagain and still.
So I'm going to move on, though,to.
That's quite the transition andsegue, isn't it?
To the issue of pastorappreciation.
That's what I'm going to do.
So I started out theconversation with a question on
(04:33):
the Facebook group self-care andsustainability, the number four
ministry leaders.
So I started out there and Iasked people what was the worst
pastor appreciation month thatyou or a friend there's your out
, you or a friend hadencountered?
(04:53):
And you know, we got, I gotsome of what I expected.
The entire month came and wentand not even so much as a card
came and went, and not even somuch as a card with nothing in
it.
A card with nothing in it wasgiven.
I was like, okay, yeah, andthere was yes, yes, and like,
(05:14):
like and well, not really likein this case, but agreement, I
guess I would say it would be.
Agreement was offered.
So somebody said what's pastorappreciation month, you know?
And I kind of get it.
It seems to create a bit oftrauma for those of us in
(05:39):
ministry.
I, of course, always hadsomebody chime in and say
they've, you know, they've neverhad a bad one yet and nobody
they know has ever had a bad oneyet.
And I thought, well, you know,I mean, that's nice.
I think that was the essence ofwhy it was created at the get
go.
(05:59):
So you know, it's a matter hereof people buying into this idea
and some people don't seem toknow that Pastor Appreciation
Month is a thing and they wouldbe that people.
It's like expecting a Christmaspresent when people don't know.
(06:23):
I don't know, that's maybe nota good analogy.
It sort of is, but it isn't.
But you know, if somebodydidn't even know about Christmas
which is pretty tricky to do,but if somebody didn't know
about it, why would you expectto receive a gift, right?
So, okay, I moved into.
(06:45):
Then I thought I'd asked the the, you know, started out with the
one question there and then Imoved into what's the most
amazing pastor appreciation giftyou've ever received.
I was hoping, you know, maybesomebody got a hot tub out there
, I don't know.
Or maybe somebody got a a tripto somewhere exotic, maybe to
(07:06):
Monaco, I don't know and so Imoved into that.
You know, we got into adiscussion about bath bombs,
which you know, hey, I got, Igot a whole education about bath
bombs in here and obviously Ithink this was the female
ministry leaders that weretalking about bath bombs.
(07:27):
Somebody got meat, somebody hadpork chops, hamburgers, steaks,
and they thought that waspretty amazing meat.
I thought that's a pretty goodone, especially at the going
rate of meat these days.
But then we got back intonobody.
(07:50):
Somebody got nothing, and theyhad been involved with this
congregation for a number ofyears.
And you know, here, stand upand let's all clap for the
ministry leader.
Here stand up and let's allclap for the ministry leader and
you know, I think there alwaysshould have at least been
chocolate, not the cheap stuff.
(08:11):
So another person said they getcards, baked goods, love
offerings, and then they saidthat, gee, reading all this
other stuff about what otherpastors have received or not
received has made them feel alittle grateful for what they
are getting.
So, but you know, homemadecookies, pies, breads, that
(08:32):
wouldn't be such a bad gig toget.
So somebody got an extra dayoff given to them, which I
thought, okay, that's prettyhigh in the amazing charts
actually.
I mean, I asked what they didwith it.
But you know, it was one ofthose days where you could just
(08:54):
actually do your self-care andfritter time away or maybe
actually do nothing.
There's an idea Somebody gotfunds for a weekend away and
they went to the nation'scapital and here we go back to
nothing.
Nothing, and they had servedthe congregation since 1980.
(09:16):
So that was a littledisconcerting, as always.
And then they've got, let's see, self-made gifts.
That's a great expression ofcare.
So, okay, we got a great listof things.
(09:36):
I'm not sure which one I likethe best.
If it was a meet or the day off, those were pretty good ones,
but people always want to add inhere that they it came and went
.
A whole month came and went andnobody did anything.
(09:58):
So so, lastly, I just kind offelt like I wanted to.
I went finally to this post andasked why is Pastor Appreciation
Month such a hot button issue?
Because it seems to garner alot of attention with the
podcast and same thing withcommentary in the Facebook page,
(10:21):
and so you know, I think I'vehit on something and it did.
It is of concern If you havesat with ministry leaders and
they're talking about early inthe month what they got, and you
know you're waiting and lookingand nothing and nothing and
nothing.
You know you kind of it's likeChristmas I'm back to Christmas,
(10:44):
but it's kind of like Christmaslike your siblings got gifts
and you got a lump of coal.
It feels like that.
That's what our emotions dowith it.
So I wanted to ask why theythought, why ministry leaders
think it's a hot button issueand of course you know I got the
why ministry leaders think it'sa hot button issue and of
(11:06):
course you know I got the.
It's not an issue and God hasgraced us with appreciation and
a lot of other kinds ofappreciation goes on throughout
the year and I think that'sthat's a fair comment, that
really is absolutely fair, andsometimes we get hung up on this
and we want that kind ofappreciation or validation shown
(11:31):
.
You know, congregants might say, well, we pay you and I'm like,
well, yes, that is true, butmaybe maybe we just want that
kind of validation because theseare the people we serve and
(11:51):
when we spend a lot of timecreating messages and we work
really hard to create messagesthat connect with our people,
well then we just would like andit's not like when they go out
at the end of a worship serviceand if you are one of those
pastors that stand at the back,I don't know if we're shaking
(12:13):
hands with everybody anymore,but you know, nice message, nice
message, nice message that'sdifferent than and we appreciate
that you serve us and that Godhas placed you here.
One person here said why Underthe why is this a hot button
(12:35):
issue?
Because we're supposed to havesome super special connection
with God and we live up on topof a pole where the world can
marvel at our piety and faith.
When the truth is, we are oftenmore messed up than our
congregants and there is a lotof truth to unpack to that.
A lot.
Actually, it's very true thatthe leaders are usually the ones
(13:01):
that have the most trauma andusually we have connected with
God's healing or God's power inour lives in pretty remarkable
ways, and it's because of thatvery thing that we want to pass
it on, that we want to be theones that help others find what
(13:24):
we have been so blessed to find.
But that does not mean that weare not a little traumatized or
the most messed up in the entiregroup.
That is very true.
And you know, I guess I'll addin here that if you feel like
(13:45):
you have never identified thoseshadow side kinds of things that
drew you, feel like you havenever identified those shadow
side kinds of things that drewyou into ministry, it's a good
idea to check into that, just soyou're aware.
I mean, we all carry baggage,but it's a great idea to know
exactly what that baggage is,because that will help you
should a congregant trigger you,which you know, that's like oh
(14:10):
eye roll for me here.
So I just want to mention that.
Let's see, we all want to beacknowledged for what we do and
that doesn't always happen.
And here you go, I have to goback to remember, remembering
who, who called me and why I dowhat I do it.
It is for Jesus, but it canstill hurt sometimes.
(14:32):
Why does it still hurt?
Because we are human, human,human.
So a little bit more pushbackon.
I didn't really know that thiswas a hot button issue.
I think it is with some people,but it's not with others.
Obviously, somebody said thatthey thought it'd be interesting
(14:55):
to see if gender made adifference and whether the
congregation expressed gratitudeor not.
And women are expected tofulfill roles and expectations
without being thanked, just likeat home.
Let's unpack that for just asecond.
And yeah, I don't know whetherthis means that.
(15:19):
Perhaps you know, after I got tothis point with I think it was
around this comment or so, Ithought maybe we need to be
circulating a petition to nothave this anymore.
Is this helpful?
I mean, is it?
How good is it for thankfulnessand appreciation, which that's
(15:40):
why we have other holidays youknow, mother's Day, father's Day
where you can show yourappreciation.
But some people feel like maybethey would like to just do it
just because they'reappreciative, not because it's
in that required month when youshould be showing appreciation.
I don't know, I have no ideathis was an interesting post
(16:05):
here that this was a femaleministry leader.
It says my husband takes it hardwhen they forget, you know,
your husband's a great guy.
I mean, that is so sweet there,you know, but that's a piece
that we don't often think about,that our spouses are sitting
there watching this as well, aresitting there watching this as
(16:35):
well, and if no appreciation isshown, that's, that's a tough, a
tough thing to take, absolutelya tough thing.
So now we're blaming socialmedia, which I thought you know.
Yeah, we're all over that.
We try to keep our finger onthe pulse.
But, you know, if youchronically see pastors thanking
their congregations for youknow, the vacation to monaco, or
the amazing gifts, dinners andeverything you know, that can
(16:59):
make it tricky.
You know, we're still human, wetry not to take it so serious.
This is when I did jump in andsaid you know, maybe we should
start a petition to you know,let's say let's not do this
anymore, let's not.
You know.
And I did get a couple ofcomments.
(17:21):
Oh, they said it's likesweetest day, which you know,
sweetest day is a hallmarkholiday.
No offense to the fine folks atHallmark, but it is.
It's like Grandparents Day, youknow.
It's a I don't know reason tobuy a card, I don't know.
I did get some yay on, a littlebit of yay anyway, with let's
(17:45):
pass a petition around.
But the Hallmark holiday ouridea was kind of interesting.
Maybe if we ditched it and justsaid love and appreciation
should be shown year-round, Imean, maybe this is something
that all of us need to getbetter at showing appreciation
to the people around us.
Maybe this should, should be.
(18:07):
You know, we all talk aboutChristmas and how we all have
enough stuff.
Maybe this is a point thatcould be made is that we could
make a big list of people weneed to show appreciation to,
and you know if you can come upwith 12, that's one person a
month or something, and I thinkthat might be a great way.
(18:30):
It's not the solution to thisto the pastor appreciation month
, but this was a great comment.
People want to be noticed andappreciated and, in my humble
opinion, ministry leaders longfor validation and since
ministry is such a performancedriven and the word job is in
(18:51):
quotes, we constantly need tohear from someone that we're
doing a good job, so we can thencompare ourselves to other
ministers and thus we canconclude whether we are
successful or not.
And that always reminds me ofsitting in with a bunch of
ministry leaders and we had togo around and they said oh yeah,
(19:11):
we always are kind of carpentabout stuff here.
Let's go around the room andsay a blessing that is in your
life or something good.
And we did get to oneindividual who decided that they
were thankful for the $5million addition that is going
on at their church and I thoughtdid you have to say the number?
(19:34):
You know there are somechurches here that the whole
building and the whole shebangis not valued at that number
that you just tossed out.
So yeah, we kind of are alittle comparison.
We can say Don't compareyourself to other people, but
sometimes we do, sometimes we do.
(20:00):
So this person brought up, thatsame person brought up, and on
that fretful and continualhamster wheel we keep running.
Yes, we do, we compareourselves and we are trying to
decide whether we're successfulor not, when really, I mean,
this is a one-on-one thingbetween you and God as to
(20:21):
whether you're successful andthat's a pretty private thing.
But they also added If you giveme a gift card to Buc-ee's,
that means I'm doing a good job.
The land where there's 500flavors of sunflower seeds and
jerky, I don't know.
And if it's an amount, well,that little sunflower seed thing
(20:45):
was my editorial comment.
But this person said if it's anamount more than my fellow
minister, well shoot, I must bedoing good.
And I thought, wow, even 10bucks to Buc-ee's would be just
fun, just fun.
So how do we find our validationin what we do?
Our validation in what we do?
(21:06):
And maybe all of us Christians,just as Christians, forget the
ministry leader piece for amoment.
Maybe we should be seeking justto validate other people when
it is a real heartfelt thing,and maybe we need to be more
grateful.
I know a lot of people spendNovember doing that.
(21:28):
You know we spend Novembersaying 30 days of thankfulness
or something, and you see peopleposting on social media about
that.
So we're not sure.
Still, some are not sure.
It really is a hot button issue,but pastors do appreciate it
when the congregation makes apoint to do something to
(21:48):
recognize a month, but it's notnecessary to the rhythm of
ministry.
Yeah, you know, the localchurch does have a different
calendar than hallmark.
I'm just going to leave thatthere we really do have a
different calendar going on andwe do mark time in a different
(22:09):
way.
But yeah, it's nice, but it'suh, not necessary.
Now here we get down tosomebody being brutally honest
and saying they're notcomfortable with it really at
all.
They did serve a church and thechurch just did a more broad
thing with thanking all thevolunteers as opposed to
(22:32):
singling out the leaders.
So, hey, that's not a bad idea.
Maybe we need to be moreappreciative people in general.
Somebody said something aboutpastors always getting perks and
I thought did I miss the bosson this?
(22:52):
What perks?
What perks?
What have I missed out on here?
Maybe they feel that that's toomuch than to have pastor
appreciation in addition to allthose perks that we get.
And, like I said, if you knowwhere the perk box was or is you
know, let me know, because Imissed that when I was serving
(23:17):
More people who served a churchwhere it was not recognized and
More people saying we could justbag the whole thing.
Now, if we're saying that wecould bag the whole thing, then
the question is how could wethen live into that in our
(23:39):
congregation and just have itnot be a thing at all?
Which is why, at the end of theday here, I'm still wondering
how you could send out apetition I don't even know where
you'd send it to and either sayyou're going to or you're not
going to.
Now, keep in mind I just readsomething from Westpath the
(24:02):
people that are an agency of theUnited Methodist Church, and on
the list of that is you need tobe doing this.
So either our laity and theleadership of whichever
denomination where God hasplanted your feet, either they
need to get with the program andget the people to do this,
(24:24):
Because somebody brought upalong here, you know, as the
pastor, you don't want to standup and say, okay, everybody, now
we have to do pastorappreciation month, because all
y'all need to grow inappreciation, you know, and then
after you say that you need toduck because the rocks and or
rotten fruit are going to comeflying at you and besides that,
(24:47):
that's pretty awkward.
It's very awkward.
It's very awkward for us whenwe have to say, okay, it's time
for you to do your review of meand decide whether you're going
to give me a raise or not.
We get stuck doing a lot ofawkward stuff and this is just
awkward.
At times.
You know who likes awkward.
(25:10):
Does anybody here like awkward?
So I had one response.
That was I mean, it was a big.
It's a big, big paragraph and Iliked it a lot, not because
they said they wish it would beabandoned, but because there
were a lot of other goodthoughts in here.
(25:30):
It says circumstances inindividual churches and among
individuals themselves is verynuanced and at times complicated
.
The reasons people offerappreciation or not are not
consistent enough for one tomeasure their entire worth to a
congregation, or even part of it, by the response to that annual
(25:52):
observation.
So how do you gauge your peopleby?
Oh, my people are just.
I don't know they're turds.
Because they don't do this, wecan't say that it's bad theology
.
Besides, this person went on tosay I've been in ministry for
40 years and found many churchesare simply unaware and, at the
risk of looking like you'refishing for compliments, few of
(26:15):
us are going to make thatannouncement anyway.
Again, another person says it'slike sweetest day easy to
overlook, especially if you'renot a pastor.
Sometimes leadership changescan muddy the waters and people
are still dealing with thatchange.
(26:36):
Some groups in the church aresupposed to.
You don't remember the pastorand sometimes it just gets
missed.
It just gets missed, it says.
When my spouse and I were poorand struggling kids in our first
church, our small churchesshowered us in that month
(26:57):
because they knew our need.
This is kind of a good picture.
Fast forward to oursubstantially advanced
circumstance in a much largercontext.
Our current church doesn'tofficially recognize it at all.
It leaves words of appreciationto individuals in the course of
the year as persons are somoved.
(27:18):
This includes no formalChristmas gift by the church to
the pastors.
All staff are remembered,however, to receive gifts of
appreciation by a larger churchon top of substantial pay and
other perks of the job.
Now here this person spells outthe perks which I was like.
(27:38):
Well, I can't recall gettingany of those, but I've heard of
people getting them unused.
Football tickets, theatertickets, invites to the country
club for dinner, individualChristmas gifts, honorariums etc
.
Would just be well unethical atmost and just counter to our
Christian witness at best.
(27:59):
Hmm, then of course there areindividuals who may use the
opportunity to relate passive,aggressively towards the pastor.
I thought, oh good heavens.
By withholding acknowledgementand goodwill Bottom line, this
(28:21):
ministry leader doesn't see ithaving consistent benefits to
the soul of a pastor byobserving the month consistent
benefits to the soul of a pastor.
By observing the month.
I'd rather see our institutionsand institutional leaders
invest highly in mental healthinitiatives such as mandatory
(28:41):
workshops and classes, boy.
And then this person finishedup by saying that we're
sacrificing too many giftedleaders to pain, despair and
isolation.
So maybe, maybe the best pastorappreciation gift you could
(29:03):
give somebody would be a seriesof sessions with a mental health
counselor.
But I you know this person hada lot of really good thinking
going on in here, so theyfinished their thoughts with I
completely acknowledge that manyhardworking pastors are
deprived of the encouragingwords and need it as desperately
(29:25):
as a cool drink of water.
However, I found that focusingon meaningful individual
relationships year-round andpositive people who enliven
ministry tend to have all theacknowledgement needed inherent
in them.
So I'm going to leave thatthere, and I still have
(29:49):
questions about whether whatshould happen is we should not
celebrate it or ask for mentalhealth services, because I
thought that was probably aboutthe best suggestion so that we
can keep ourselves in check andmaybe so that we can hash around
(30:12):
with a neutral person aboutwhether and why Pastor
Appreciation Month is or is notimportant to us and where we
could file that to us and wherewe could file that.
(30:35):
So thanks again for listeningand I hope this has been helpful
, or just another way that wecan just walk together, journey
together and hash around theissues and challenges and topics
of the day.
Hey friends, I want to thank youso much for listening to the
(30:57):
Krabby Pastor podcast.
As always, I do this for you sothat you can take that next
step towards some healthyself-care, but at the same time,
I'm always interested in whatyou're interested about.
So if you have some suggestionsfor me, you can email me at
crabbypastor at gmail, and I forsure, for sure, will take that
(31:22):
into consideration.
And maybe you even have a greatperson that you would like for
me to interview along the linesof something self-care or
something that is connected tothose topics and leadership.
Even, for sure, drop me a Gmailand always, always.
(31:42):
I appreciate you sharing thispodcast with friends.
I really love it when I hearthat that's being done.
So thank you, thank you inadvance.
How's that?
I will say that, and I want toremind you also that there is a
burnout symptoms test on mywebsite at margiebryce dot com,
(32:08):
and I will put that website inthe show notes, because it is
b-r-y-c-e margiebryce dot comand you know for sure you're
going to want to check that out.
And here's a moment of realconfession here.
The link to the burnoutquestionnaire was a little
(32:28):
dysfunctional and I had someinteresting surprises when I
looked at the back end of whatwas going on on the website.
So it is for sure repaired andI want you to go and get that
burnout questionnaire.
If you're wondering whetheryour lack of motivation, lack of
interest and all that isburnout or not.
(32:50):
This should help you make anassessment.
So thanks again for listening,be blessed and don't forget, do
your self-care.
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