February 7, 2024 • 34 mins
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Have you ever stepped into a room and felt like you didn't quite belong? Tre Cabrera, founder of Cabrera Advisory Group LLC, knows that sensation all too well, and she's devoted her career to transforming it. In our latest episode, we peel back the layers of diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging (DEIB) with Tre, a black woman who has carved her path through the challenging terrain of urban and regional planning and community development. She not only shares her personal narrative but also delivers powerful insights on creating spaces where underrepresented voices aren't just present but are influential in shaping the culture of organizations.
As we navigate the complex web of power dynamics and organizational culture, Tre brings to light the often-overlooked facets of authenticity and allyship in the workplace. Get ready for a heart-to-heart on the emotional bravery required from leaders to foster an environment of psychological safety—a place where every individual feels valued and heard. Through her strategic positioning within the corporate world and her understanding of cultural pressures, Tre provides us with actionable strategies for advocating for change and ensuring that our organizational values resonate with the expectations of diverse talent pools. Tune in for a thought-provoking dialogue that will challenge you to rethink how you engage with DEIB in your professional life.
You can find Tre on LinkedIn or on her website.
You can order your copy of Creating Belonging on Amazon.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Justin (00:10):
Welcome to another episode of the Creating
Belonging podcast.
Today, I have with me TreyCabrera.
Trey, if you wouldn't mind,just introducing yourself.
Tre (00:21):
Good morning.
Thank you so much, Justin.
Yes, absolutely happy to dothat.
Before I jump right in, I justwant to thank you again for
inviting me as a guest on theCreating Belonging podcast Very
exciting.
Appreciate the opportunity andthe space to collaborate this
morning.
So let me tell you a little bitabout who I am, Of course.
My name is Trey Cabrera.
I'm founder and principal ofCabrera Advisory Group LLC.
(00:44):
We are a black woman ownedmanagement consulting firm based
in Annapolis, Maryland.
So my firm specializes in arange of services, including
organizational and leadershipdevelopment, specifically values
based leadership and systemchange, and so we're doing a lot
of really exciting work andencourage folks to pop in the
pop on the website, jump, followme on LinkedIn all that good
(01:07):
stuff.
So I am a professional blackwoman, a mother, a dog mom, a
wife, a business owner, a valuesbased leader, a systems thinker
, a community member and so manyother things, and so my
professional work.
Let me take you on a briefjourney and share a bit about my
origin story.
So I am a professional urbanand regional planner and I've
(01:27):
been in planning and communitydevelopment for 20 years.
I earned a master of regionalplanning degree in my areas of
expertise or economicdevelopment and community
planning.
So I started my career inWashington DC way back when and
I served in associate levelroles, manager level roles with
nonprofits focused on researchpolicies, sustainable community
(01:48):
planning, systems planning,housing policy and advocacy work
.
So in all these early roles Iwas introduced to product and
program management, which Ireally fell in love with, but it
was at a different level so itwas really a clear departure
from the work I had done ingraduate school and college.
I was introduced to managingthese large scale programs and
absolutely loved it.
So national conferences,symposia, all these really
(02:11):
interesting opportunities,really interesting and impactful
community development partners,so it was really important work
to me.
But in these early performances,early professional experiences
as a young black woman, it gaveme insight and data to really
wrap my head around the factthat professionals who looked
like me were not in theseprofessional learning spaces
(02:32):
Right.
So I was charged with reallybringing this content and
organizing this really impactfuland interesting opportunity for
planners and other communitydevelopment practitioners.
But black planners, male orfemale, were not in the room.
So that really struck me and soI became more curious about
this system and what were theimpediments in the system, and
(02:53):
so simply stated where were theplanners who looked like me?
That was really my question.
So, while I didn't necessarilyhave the vocabulary at the time,
I knew I was curious aboutdiversity and creating equity in
systems that would ultimatelywiden access to opportunity
right, Because the opportunitydoesn't matter if there's no
(03:14):
access right.
So fast forward to a few yearslater.
So I had an opportunity topursue a second graduate degree,
and so I did.
I earned a master of socialwork with concentrations in
macro social work, communitypractice, community organization
systems, infrastructure, socialaction and social justice work,
Right.
So in my MSW program I found anatural curiosity around
(03:38):
educational equity in communityschools and social policy.
That fit really well with myexperience as a planner, and so
that really led me to thisjourney to focus on DEIB work,
and it started to become veryclear to me right.
So I had many opportunities toengage with systems work, and so
that was really my passion.
(03:59):
These imbalances and absence ofequity and design were factors
that continued to crop up.
So in the community schoolswork, community development, and
so my passions and backgroundaround DEIB and justice work
related to my personalexperiences and observations,
particularly those around access, so those related to access.
So I'm passionate about systemswork.
(04:20):
I talk a lot about systemsthinking and the alignment of
systems change, and I would saythat's where my journey with
DEIB and justice work reallybegan, and so I had more
concrete opportunities to dothis examination in my career
and really look at what arethose influential factors that
really underpin theseconversations about DEIB and
(04:42):
justice work.
Right, but it really started ata very early point in my career
and so in hindsight, when Iwork on projects and I have
these interactions in differentenvironments, it's really become
very clear to me but challengedme to think more critically
about systems access andopportunity.
Justin (05:02):
Yeah, thank you.
That's a really great lead-into, I think, get us to talk a
bit about and I think I'vementioned this already in
another episode, but one of thechapters I'm working on for the
second edition of the book iscreating belonging in
organizations, and so that'ssomething that you've spent a
(05:22):
lot of time on.
I think it's twofold, really.
It's number one is access tothese organizations, then making
sure that people feel a senseof belonging once they're there,
because there's really twopieces.
You said your early work wasyou were the one planning these
events, but the people thatlooked like you were not
(05:45):
attending them.
I'd love to talk about that alittle bit, like being someone
who's tasked to put on theseevents, but not necessarily for
people that look like you andhad that realization.
Let's dig into that a littlebit.
Tell me more.
Tre (06:00):
Sure.
So I think a lot of that for me, thinking about value systems.
So education is a core valueand it has been something that
really underpinned my upbringing.
And there was thisunderstanding that you are going
to college right, it was neverreally this conversation about
you are going to graduate school, you are going to medical
(06:22):
school that wasn't in theconversation.
But you will go and get abachelor's degree, that will
happen, right.
And so I think for me, what Ibrought to those experiences was
I had very early access to someof the best private education,
some of the best opportunitiesover the summer, some of the
(06:44):
best opportunities forenrichment, access to colleges
of my dreams right, being ableto have that as something that
was a very tangible thing that Icould reach out and grab.
Right For me, I brought tothose later experiences that,
while my colleagues who did looklike me did have access to
(07:07):
those educational opportunities,did have that as their value
system, there wasn't thatadvocacy behind that journey,
right.
So when you have the advocatethat's really pushing you in
that direction and you have thatperson that is allowing you to
be in the spaces that give youaccess to those opportunities,
(07:29):
that journey becomes somethingdifferent, and so I was very
fortunate that in college, ingraduate school, in these other
kind of educational settings, Ihad people who were very clearly
in my corner and wanted me todo well, right.
So it wasn't enough that I'm ablack woman in a college
pursuing this degree.
(07:51):
It really had to do with who isbehind me, who has already risen
to this other place, and nowtheir voice and their leverage
is giving me even moreopportunity to step into these
other spaces.
So I think that my blackcolleagues who are not at the
table with me when I'm theperson organizing the event, but
(08:13):
they weren't even invited tothe event, I think that they
missed that added step of havingthat advocate, and that very
much comes from theorganizational infrastructure
and how it is designed and theconversations that happen within
a company, an agency, a schoolsystem, a nonprofit, for folks
(08:35):
to be able to access theopportunities that are not only
going to drive theirprofessional and personal growth
, but it's really going to looklike the organization is not
just setting the employee up forsuccess, but they're really
advocating for that person to dowell in their position and
really advocating for them to dowell as part of a system which
(08:58):
is that entity.
Justin (09:01):
Yeah, okay.
I'm curious then, as you lookat that perspective of that's
why those individuals weremissing from that space, was
that lack of advocacy?
I'm curious did you find thatthe difference then was that non
marginalized individuals whowere in those spaces had that
(09:21):
advocacy, or was it unnecessarybecause of that non marginalized
status?
Tre (09:27):
I think they definitely had the advocacy, but I think that
had it not been part of theirjourney, they still would have
had access right.
So my operating in aprofessional space and really
understanding who's in the roomwith me and knowing that I am
(09:49):
the only or one of the only itoften is very much this case of
you need to figure out how to bepart of that community and you
need to figure out what'sallowed.
What are these rules that applyto you, and how do you engage
with your colleagues that youare as qualified as or even more
(10:10):
, and so you're always playingyou meaning me, a black woman
always playing by a separate setof rules and not necessarily
being able to raise your handand advocate for yourself and
say, hey, I saw that there is athree day conference in New York
City that I'd love to go tobecause it's really would pair
(10:33):
well with the work that I'mdoing here and the partnerships
that I'm growing in thecommunity, or whatever the case
may be, and so having the voiceto speak up and say, hey, I'd
like to go to that, that is, tome, was something that was
learned over time, that I waseven able to do that right, so
able and allowed are twodifferent things, and so working
(10:55):
in specific work cultures wherethat wasn't even allowed or
expected, that further stiflesthe individual's growth.
It stifles their perception ofhow well they're doing it work.
And not having that advocatebehind you to dodge those
(11:16):
barriers for you and help youalong the journey, that really
is what has allowed me to be invery specific rooms with people
that I likely would not haveever had the opportunity to be
at the table with.
Justin (11:32):
Yeah, there's a few things at play there that I'm
hearing.
You've got a just the role ofgender, based on the research
being kind of gender, as binarymen typically raise their hand
more than women, like they'remore, they're bashful to say
there's something and I wantthat.
(11:53):
Here's an opportunity, give itto me, right.
So you've got a component andthen I would assume and have the
research handy for this.
But if I think aboutmarginalized individuals and the
fact that if we relatemarginalized individuals into
the creating the logging model,where they are typically
minimizing, where they aremasking parts of their identity,
(12:18):
they are hiding in a way tomake other people uncomfortable,
that then, sorry, make otherpeople comfortable, not
uncomfortable Then that wouldlend to raising your hand as
much.
I need to have a lower profilebecause I'm different, yeah, and
so that then would stifle thatability to speak up for
(12:42):
opportunities.
Tre (12:43):
Absolutely and it really.
For me, it stems from that now,right, years and years later,
growing and evolving.
It really stems from thisunderstanding and being able to
name this concept of emotionalcourage.
So what is that and what doesthat mean and why does it matter
?
So this willingness to feel andopen yourself to not just
(13:08):
experiences but the unpleasantemotions that could come with
that right, so that hesitancy toraise your hand and say, hey,
I'd love to do that, or hey, I'dlove to lead that group, or I'd
love to go to the next boardmeeting and happy to take notes,
right, how can I contributethat type of thing that might be
(13:29):
very unpleasant, to speak upand say, hey, I'm actually up
for that if you give me theopportunity.
But here's the point, thinkingabout the creating belonging
model.
Can I jump for a second andthink a little bit about that,
if that's okay?
Justin (13:47):
Yeah, dig in.
Tre (13:49):
So, for me, the model has everything to do with
cultivating and nurturingenvironments that would welcome
this type of shift, honor it andallow it to thrive, and so not
dismissing the idea of change,but embracing it with open arms
and leaders really modeling andadvocating the self-awareness
(14:09):
required to move the ballforward.
So now, what do I do?
So, truly, I'm touching on thisidea of superficiality and
surface glances, right, thatmany companies and organizations
and agencies and the leaderswho are in charge, they're
captivated by this shiny object,right, but it's just the
surface, it's the superficialpiece of it.
(14:32):
It's not digging deep, right,so they're doing that instead of
doing the real work to enactlasting systems, change.
So, in the absence of that,you're really speaking to this
absence or void of emotionalcourage.
So, dei and belonging andjustice, work and efforts and
outputs and outcomes, they willnot be realized unless we dig
(14:55):
deeper and give ourselves andour people permission to dig
deeper.
So the uncomfortable feelingthat we get when we talk about
race and social equity andequality and change, that means
you're on to something right.
That feeling of this is, I feel, tense, right, that's that
emotional courage kicking in andso you're engaging that right,
(15:19):
and it should feel hard, and itshould feel hard to confront
what's in your way.
And so that's that advocatecoming behind you.
And so what is the barrier,what is the obstacle, what is
the impediment, what is thefalse hope, what is the misstep,
what is the challenge?
When you activate thatemotional courage needed to lead
, those hard parts become mucheasier.
(15:40):
But it really is that emotionalcourage that's missing from a
lot of the leadership in manyorganizations, and I talk a lot
about this idea of a ready nowleader, the readiness piece that
is often overlooked as part ofthe leadership journey.
If you're not developing thosereadiness skills, you're not
going to be able to create anenvironment that welcomes
(16:03):
something like the creatingbelonging model.
Justin (16:06):
Yeah, yeah, it's typically the people that are
like you're good at the job, soyou can now lead other people to
be good at the job, and that'sthat's such a small fraction of
being a good leader.
There's so many things I want tounpack from what you said,
because you've got that leaninginto discomfort and I probably
(16:27):
don't talk about that enough.
If you are really doing the workof creating belonging, leaning
into authenticity, leaning intoacceptance, if you are not
uncomfortable while you're doingthat, you're not doing it right
.
Yep, I probably don't talkabout that enough because it is
uncomfortable to to explorethese things and you wait around
(16:52):
in the muck of other people'sdiscomfort, also understanding
that, like the world's notperfect, we've got to figure
this out.
So there is that discomfort inexploring both sides of both
authenticity and then acceptance.
The other thing that I'm reallygetting into is this that
(17:12):
emotional courage piece and therole that it plays in
authenticity and really leaninginto our authenticity and being
courageous enough to be who weknow we want to be, not what
others expect of us, right, orwe think others expect of us,
and so leaning into that.
(17:33):
And then there was one otherpiece that I already lost
because there's so much in there, but I'm going to throw it over
to you and see what you thoughton all of that.
Tre (17:41):
Yeah, no, absolutely, justin.
You and I touched on this alittle bit when we spoke earlier
, but in my opinion, in myexperiences, belonging is part
of inclusion and authenticity ispart of inclusion, and so we
can think about these things alittle bit.
Of the connective tissue how dowe bring all these pieces
together?
Folks will talk about and,again, as a DEI practitioner,
(18:05):
there are opinions about so manydifferent things.
Right, people want to be ableto define things in ways that
make them comfortable.
And how do we get to thatunified place, especially when
you're talking about anorganization, a nonprofit, a
public agency, a school system,others, right, how do you talk
about bringing it all togetherso that folks can operate
(18:27):
cohesively?
You can have your opinion, Ihave mine, and how do we bring
those pieces together?
So, how do we think about thediversity?
How do we focus onrepresentation or the makeup of
the entity?
How do we talk about inclusion?
How do we talk about thosecontributions that folks make?
How do we bring all of thattogether?
The presence of different andvarying perspectives right,
(18:51):
people want to feel included andheard, and that, I think, is
that common thread, and so whenwe talk about emotional courage,
it's again setting the stagefor that.
The ready now leader that'smissing that readiness piece.
The ready now leader who'staking the job because of the
higher salary.
The ready now leader who'sthinking about how do I advance
(19:12):
my career because this would bethat next step and then I'll
stay here for six months,regardless of how I really
facilitate these spaces and makesure that my people are well
looked after and are given theseopportunities to advance their
own careers.
The ready now leader that'sjust taking it for the title and
they're fine, they're readybecause someone has said to them
(19:35):
come, do this job right,whether or not they've been on a
journey to develop themselves,to develop as a true leader who
can step into the role.
The other piece of it is thatemotional courage of recognizing
when the role isn't for you andyou're not ready.
(19:56):
So something that I talk aboutis understanding that leadership
is not for everyone, steppingback and being OK with saying
this actually isn't my time orthis actually isn't the
opportunity, having that selfawareness to be able to activate
that emotional courage.
The barrier is right there andthe barrier is you're going to
(20:17):
have to perform in this role andbecause the boss, who's liked
you for five years is now givingyou this opportunity.
You have to have that awareness, enough to say but how do I
bring the people?
Think, look at the full picture.
How do I bring the people whoare with me, how do I bring them
along, right A little bit ofthat selflessness and starting
(20:40):
to activate what's really forthe good of the order, for a
lack of a better expression,like how do we make this
something that everyone can feelgood about?
Justin (20:51):
Yeah, yeah, and it's not often that someone's tapped on
the shoulder for a promotion andthey turn it down.
It's an interesting perspective.
There's another thing that Iwanted to grab in there.
So we've talked about theauthenticity piece and the
emotional courage that comeswith that, but I also think
there's this part of allyship.
(21:12):
There are the individuals whoare willing to speak up and
raise their hand for anopportunity, and then there are
many individuals who are not,and there's an important role of
allyship.
And I think there's anothertopic that I'm exploring in the
second edition of the book ofadvocating for those who may not
be willing to speak up, andI'll put myself in this seat.
(21:37):
I'm someone who's rarely bashfulto speak up for what I want.
I'm pretty good at selfadvocacy.
I don't know if that's selfish,growing up as primarily an only
child and just I get what Iwant.
But regardless, I think for me,earlier in my career as a
leader, I would often think ifsomeone wants something, we'll
(21:59):
speak up because I would.
So why wouldn't they?
And I think we have to step outof that of.
You know, someone else mightwant something but they're not
going to speak up for it becausenot everybody's comfortable and
willing to do that.
So how do we, as leaders, howdo we as allies, make sure the
world is safe, make sure thatwe're advocating for others in a
(22:21):
helpful way, in service to them?
Tre (22:26):
Right.
So the allyship piece, and thenalso this understanding of
psychological safety right,cannot raise my hand, am I?
Can I take this reasonable risk, even if I don't get it Great,
but I was still allowed.
The environment allowed me.
The leader has now created thisspace for me to be able to
(22:47):
engage and not hesitate and notfeel like I don't have enough
training for that, but ask thequestion I've taken these two
courses, but can I take another?
Because I'm really interestedin what you presented last week
at the team meeting.
Right, having thatself-advocacy and that
self-awareness major right.
The psychological safety piecehow are you creating that in a
(23:09):
group?
How are you really speaking upin that allyship role?
How are you really making thatkind of this underpinning of all
of this other work that'scoming together to create these
spaces that really fosterbelonging?
And, again, I do believe thatit is aligning yourself.
When you're in a role, we canlook around the room.
(23:31):
Obviously, we're all going tolook different and I think way
back when I was starting out inmy career, I was looking who was
skin is dark like mine?
Right, that's my ally.
That wasn't true, right, I havebeen in experiences where women
who are darker than me.
So they are black women as well.
(23:53):
Their skin is darker than mine.
They were my biggest barrier.
They were my obstacle.
They were not the ally, right?
I'm a young woman starting outin her career.
You're the COO, right?
But there was this constantfriction of not really being in
(24:14):
this space of.
This is really about developingthe organization.
Right Now you have the corneroffice, but you're still
responsible for the people whoare not in the corner office,
right?
This still are responsible forthose people.
Those people, in theory, aremarginalized because they're
(24:34):
never going to have as muchaccess to the opportunities that
the C-suite has.
They're never going to havethose opportunities.
They're never going to be atthose tables to raise their hand
and volunteer for something.
Their salaries are never goingto match the CEO's salary, right
?
And so it's this idea oflooking beyond that surface
(24:56):
piece, right, looking beyond theidentity that might be readily
available and readily availableto see in that physical piece of
it, and taking a step back andactivating that ally-ship piece
and understanding that there aregoing to be people whose
(25:16):
opportunities will continue toflatline and they'll always be
linear, and your responsibilityas someone in an organization
who has risen and has moreaccess to these opportunities
and more access to informationto provide to the company.
That's your responsibility tobring that back and give people
(25:37):
that opportunity to hear thatand really absorb that knowledge
and understand how you cansupport them in that ally-ship
piece but then how they can inturn continue to support their
peers and others in the company.
Justin (25:51):
I'm curious I want to explore this because I don't
talk to anyone much about it butyou had brought up you had
hoped or assumed that otherblack women would be allies for
you and that wasn't the case.
I'm curious if there'ssomething in there around this
kind of in-group or assumedin-group competition.
(26:13):
Is it like, hey, if there'sopportunities, I'm saving them
for me?
Yeah, you got it and yes.
Tre (26:23):
Hello, that's the short answer.
That's the short answer.
My experience, really, it wasthat hoarding of the information
right, so Aligning as a blackwoman, right Aligning yourself
to the white CEO and reallygetting in good with that person
(26:45):
.
Justin (26:45):
Right.
Tre (26:46):
This was all strategic, right?
So how do I position myself?
So when it comes time to lookat the promotions, then I'm
already in with the CEO, not theother person.
That just wasn't my style,right?
So maybe it was naive, maybe itwas, but that wasn't how I
(27:06):
operated, right?
It wasn't part of my valuesystem.
I don't need to undercut otherpeople, right?
I can shine.
Right, I'm already very brightand shiny and I want the best
for everyone, right?
But being in a situation likethat and knowing that power
(27:26):
imbalance, again, this personalready being at a higher
seniority than I coming into theorganization, I just assumed
that if it's a competition, theyalready have all these other
people behind them.
And I'm new and I'm trying tomake a name for myself and do
well in this role, and I dothink it was a lot of that.
(27:51):
It was the there's only two ofus.
There's only two of us in thiscompany, and so it's gonna be
cutthroat, because that is theculture that was established and
accepted, right?
And so that's the unfortunatepiece, and I think there is a
lot of that.
But that really speaks toreally embedding those values
(28:15):
early and allowing individualsto come with their own values
and then finding that alignmentwith the organization, operate
together.
What is that harmony thatbrings us together and aligns
this and puts us on the samepage, that we can do this work
well and success.
And so I think for me that wasthe experience.
It was where there's two of us,and so if it's not you, it'll
(28:39):
be me, and it'll be me becausethat's what I've set up.
I've already set that up formyself.
Justin (28:44):
Yeah, no, it's interesting.
There's definitely the role oforganizational values and
organizational culture in thatcompetition.
Does that competition exist?
But I also think and I'mpositioning this in the most
respectful way of there's theneed for survival.
Right, I am clawing my way toget into a place where people
(29:07):
who don't look like me normallyget to, and then I'm getting
close, I'm not making room foranybody else and I'm in the
fault, that position because, Iunderstand it right, it is a
survival of trying to get tosomewhere and it's unfortunate
that we have those environmentsthat exist, I agree, but it's an
(29:29):
interesting perspective and,yeah, I wanna dig into that.
Tre (29:32):
Yeah.
Justin (29:33):
I'm curious as you look at your work in creating systems
that are more inclusive, andbecause I think there's two
things.
It is there's access, and thenthere is do people feel welcome
when they're there?
Do they have a sense ofbelonging?
What are like one or two keythings that just have to happen
(29:57):
in order for those things, thosedominoes, to fall in the right
way?
Tre (30:02):
It's a great question.
I think one of the things thatit would be beautiful if more
people would do this, but I knowthat people don't.
And I've talked to people abouthow do we get people to engage
more in their own process forlooking for a job?
Right, we've talked about notyou and I, but I've talked in
(30:24):
the past and I know you've heardthis but that idea of
interviewing the company, right,that idea when you're in there
asking those questions I knowcertainly young professionals.
They're not doing that, right,they're just gonna get the job.
And so I'm thinking thatthere's this practice of the
self-advocacy figuring out wheredo I want to land, rather than
(30:50):
what's the low-hanging fruit andmaybe it's going to be a good
fit and maybe it's not.
I think that there's a lot ofthat front-end work that then
translates into the job, whichthen translates into
organizational culture.
If you walk into a job andyou're like I'm standing on this
core value of belonging andthis is why I took this job,
(31:14):
this is why I said no to fiveother jobs, because I was
promised that in this space, inthis company culture, belonging
is priority, folks having theirvoice to challenge things and
feel like they can, but theorganization setting up the
(31:35):
environment so that again itreally speaks to that
psychological safety of bringingpeople into spaces where they
can have these candidconversations.
But it's a lot of the front-endwork, before you even get hired
, to be like what am I naming asthese non-negotiables?
And when it doesn't happen,who's the person I need to talk
(31:56):
to?
Not trying to ruffle anyfeathers, necessarily, but
holding people to a kill.
The same way that the companywants you to arrive at 9 am and
do your work and have thecompany computer and go to the
conference and all of that,there are expectations that the
employee is allowed to have, Iexpect to be paid twice a month,
(32:19):
I expect to have healthinsurance, I expect to have a
401K, I expect to be able to goto the team meeting and have a
culture that supports mydifferences and my voice and my
attitudes towards things whenthings really aren't okay, and
so we can work it in manydifferent ways.
(32:40):
But I do believe that it's thatfront-end before you even get
hired, what are yourexpectations?
And then making sure thosealign to the company that you're
applying to, and then havingthe opportunity to exercise your
own level of emotional courageto say, hey, fill in the blank.
(33:00):
So I think the company has somework to do setting up spaces in
this culture.
And it's not just the culture,it's really the organizational
infrastructure that needs to beset in this way so that all
these other things are startingto fall into place.
So it's not leadershipdevelopment, it's not leadership
readiness, it's organizationaldevelopment.
(33:20):
It is organizational readiness,right, it's systems change,
it's systems thinking, and soit's all of these things coming
together, but it's really insupport of the person coming in
to do the job that you'veadvertised and are now asking
someone to perform.
So what are your kind ofaccountability pieces?
(33:41):
And then what is that kind offor the person coming in, and
how do we start to align those?
Justin (33:47):
Yeah, that's great.
Thank you for that.
Thank you, trey.
I really enjoyed having aconversation with you today.
I've joined our conversationsbefore today as well, but I want
to make sure people can findyou, so how can our listeners
find you?
Tre (34:04):
Excellent.
You can find me on LinkedIn,Trey Cabrera, MRP, MSW, and you
can find me at Cabrera AdvisoryGroups website, which is
wwwcabragpcom.
Justin (34:19):
Excellent, and I'll make sure that we got some links in
the podcast notes so that peoplewill have access to you.
Trey, always a pleasurespeaking with you.
Thank you so much for joiningme on the podcast and we will
enjoy continuing to talk afterthe recording's off.
So thank you all.
Join us again for anotherepisode of the Creating Longing
podcast.
Tre (34:39):
Thanks, Shephton runterkanal community
싫enotingloverorg.
Welcome to another episode of the Creating
Belonging podcast.
Today, I have with me TreyCabrera.
Trey, if you wouldn't mind,just introducing yourself.
Tre (00:21):
Good morning.
Thank you so much, Justin.
Yes, absolutely happy to dothat.
Before I jump right in, I justwant to thank you again for
inviting me as a guest on theCreating Belonging podcast Very
exciting.
Appreciate the opportunity andthe space to collaborate this
morning.
So let me tell you a little bitabout who I am, Of course.
My name is Trey Cabrera.
I'm founder and principal ofCabrera Advisory Group LLC.
(00:44):
We are a black woman ownedmanagement consulting firm based
in Annapolis, Maryland.
So my firm specializes in arange of services, including
organizational and leadershipdevelopment, specifically values
based leadership and systemchange, and so we're doing a lot
of really exciting work andencourage folks to pop in the
pop on the website, jump, followme on LinkedIn all that good
(01:07):
stuff.
So I am a professional blackwoman, a mother, a dog mom, a
wife, a business owner, a valuesbased leader, a systems thinker
, a community member and so manyother things, and so my
professional work.
Let me take you on a briefjourney and share a bit about my
origin story.
So I am a professional urbanand regional planner and I've
(01:27):
been in planning and communitydevelopment for 20 years.
I earned a master of regionalplanning degree in my areas of
expertise or economicdevelopment and community
planning.
So I started my career inWashington DC way back when and
I served in associate levelroles, manager level roles with
nonprofits focused on researchpolicies, sustainable community
(01:48):
planning, systems planning,housing policy and advocacy work
.
So in all these early roles Iwas introduced to product and
program management, which Ireally fell in love with, but it
was at a different level so itwas really a clear departure
from the work I had done ingraduate school and college.
I was introduced to managingthese large scale programs and
absolutely loved it.
So national conferences,symposia, all these really
(02:11):
interesting opportunities,really interesting and impactful
community development partners,so it was really important work
to me.
But in these early performances,early professional experiences
as a young black woman, it gaveme insight and data to really
wrap my head around the factthat professionals who looked
like me were not in theseprofessional learning spaces
(02:32):
Right.
So I was charged with reallybringing this content and
organizing this really impactfuland interesting opportunity for
planners and other communitydevelopment practitioners.
But black planners, male orfemale, were not in the room.
So that really struck me and soI became more curious about
this system and what were theimpediments in the system, and
(02:53):
so simply stated where were theplanners who looked like me?
That was really my question.
So, while I didn't necessarilyhave the vocabulary at the time,
I knew I was curious aboutdiversity and creating equity in
systems that would ultimatelywiden access to opportunity
right, Because the opportunitydoesn't matter if there's no
(03:14):
access right.
So fast forward to a few yearslater.
So I had an opportunity topursue a second graduate degree,
and so I did.
I earned a master of socialwork with concentrations in
macro social work, communitypractice, community organization
systems, infrastructure, socialaction and social justice work,
Right.
So in my MSW program I found anatural curiosity around
(03:38):
educational equity in communityschools and social policy.
That fit really well with myexperience as a planner, and so
that really led me to thisjourney to focus on DEIB work,
and it started to become veryclear to me right.
So I had many opportunities toengage with systems work, and so
that was really my passion.
(03:59):
These imbalances and absence ofequity and design were factors
that continued to crop up.
So in the community schoolswork, community development, and
so my passions and backgroundaround DEIB and justice work
related to my personalexperiences and observations,
particularly those around access, so those related to access.
So I'm passionate about systemswork.
(04:20):
I talk a lot about systemsthinking and the alignment of
systems change, and I would saythat's where my journey with
DEIB and justice work reallybegan, and so I had more
concrete opportunities to dothis examination in my career
and really look at what arethose influential factors that
really underpin theseconversations about DEIB and
(04:42):
justice work.
Right, but it really started ata very early point in my career
and so in hindsight, when Iwork on projects and I have
these interactions in differentenvironments, it's really become
very clear to me but challengedme to think more critically
about systems access andopportunity.
Justin (05:02):
Yeah, thank you.
That's a really great lead-into, I think, get us to talk a
bit about and I think I'vementioned this already in
another episode, but one of thechapters I'm working on for the
second edition of the book iscreating belonging in
organizations, and so that'ssomething that you've spent a
(05:22):
lot of time on.
I think it's twofold, really.
It's number one is access tothese organizations, then making
sure that people feel a senseof belonging once they're there,
because there's really twopieces.
You said your early work wasyou were the one planning these
events, but the people thatlooked like you were not
(05:45):
attending them.
I'd love to talk about that alittle bit, like being someone
who's tasked to put on theseevents, but not necessarily for
people that look like you andhad that realization.
Let's dig into that a littlebit.
Tell me more.
Tre (06:00):
Sure.
So I think a lot of that for me, thinking about value systems.
So education is a core valueand it has been something that
really underpinned my upbringing.
And there was thisunderstanding that you are going
to college right, it was neverreally this conversation about
you are going to graduate school, you are going to medical
(06:22):
school that wasn't in theconversation.
But you will go and get abachelor's degree, that will
happen, right.
And so I think for me, what Ibrought to those experiences was
I had very early access to someof the best private education,
some of the best opportunitiesover the summer, some of the
(06:44):
best opportunities forenrichment, access to colleges
of my dreams right, being ableto have that as something that
was a very tangible thing that Icould reach out and grab.
Right For me, I brought tothose later experiences that,
while my colleagues who did looklike me did have access to
(07:07):
those educational opportunities,did have that as their value
system, there wasn't thatadvocacy behind that journey,
right.
So when you have the advocatethat's really pushing you in
that direction and you have thatperson that is allowing you to
be in the spaces that give youaccess to those opportunities,
(07:29):
that journey becomes somethingdifferent, and so I was very
fortunate that in college, ingraduate school, in these other
kind of educational settings, Ihad people who were very clearly
in my corner and wanted me todo well, right.
So it wasn't enough that I'm ablack woman in a college
pursuing this degree.
(07:51):
It really had to do with who isbehind me, who has already risen
to this other place, and nowtheir voice and their leverage
is giving me even moreopportunity to step into these
other spaces.
So I think that my blackcolleagues who are not at the
table with me when I'm theperson organizing the event, but
(08:13):
they weren't even invited tothe event, I think that they
missed that added step of havingthat advocate, and that very
much comes from theorganizational infrastructure
and how it is designed and theconversations that happen within
a company, an agency, a schoolsystem, a nonprofit, for folks
(08:35):
to be able to access theopportunities that are not only
going to drive theirprofessional and personal growth
, but it's really going to looklike the organization is not
just setting the employee up forsuccess, but they're really
advocating for that person to dowell in their position and
really advocating for them to dowell as part of a system which
(08:58):
is that entity.
Justin (09:01):
Yeah, okay.
I'm curious then, as you lookat that perspective of that's
why those individuals weremissing from that space, was
that lack of advocacy?
I'm curious did you find thatthe difference then was that non
marginalized individuals whowere in those spaces had that
(09:21):
advocacy, or was it unnecessarybecause of that non marginalized
status?
Tre (09:27):
I think they definitely had the advocacy, but I think that
had it not been part of theirjourney, they still would have
had access right.
So my operating in aprofessional space and really
understanding who's in the roomwith me and knowing that I am
(09:49):
the only or one of the only itoften is very much this case of
you need to figure out how to bepart of that community and you
need to figure out what'sallowed.
What are these rules that applyto you, and how do you engage
with your colleagues that youare as qualified as or even more
(10:10):
, and so you're always playingyou meaning me, a black woman
always playing by a separate setof rules and not necessarily
being able to raise your handand advocate for yourself and
say, hey, I saw that there is athree day conference in New York
City that I'd love to go tobecause it's really would pair
(10:33):
well with the work that I'mdoing here and the partnerships
that I'm growing in thecommunity, or whatever the case
may be, and so having the voiceto speak up and say, hey, I'd
like to go to that, that is, tome, was something that was
learned over time, that I waseven able to do that right, so
able and allowed are twodifferent things, and so working
(10:55):
in specific work cultures wherethat wasn't even allowed or
expected, that further stiflesthe individual's growth.
It stifles their perception ofhow well they're doing it work.
And not having that advocatebehind you to dodge those
(11:16):
barriers for you and help youalong the journey, that really
is what has allowed me to be invery specific rooms with people
that I likely would not haveever had the opportunity to be
at the table with.
Justin (11:32):
Yeah, there's a few things at play there that I'm
hearing.
You've got a just the role ofgender, based on the research
being kind of gender, as binarymen typically raise their hand
more than women, like they'remore, they're bashful to say
there's something and I wantthat.
(11:53):
Here's an opportunity, give itto me, right.
So you've got a component andthen I would assume and have the
research handy for this.
But if I think aboutmarginalized individuals and the
fact that if we relatemarginalized individuals into
the creating the logging model,where they are typically
minimizing, where they aremasking parts of their identity,
(12:18):
they are hiding in a way tomake other people uncomfortable,
that then, sorry, make otherpeople comfortable, not
uncomfortable Then that wouldlend to raising your hand as
much.
I need to have a lower profilebecause I'm different, yeah, and
so that then would stifle thatability to speak up for
(12:42):
opportunities.
Tre (12:43):
Absolutely and it really.
For me, it stems from that now,right, years and years later,
growing and evolving.
It really stems from thisunderstanding and being able to
name this concept of emotionalcourage.
So what is that and what doesthat mean and why does it matter
?
So this willingness to feel andopen yourself to not just
(13:08):
experiences but the unpleasantemotions that could come with
that right, so that hesitancy toraise your hand and say, hey,
I'd love to do that, or hey, I'dlove to lead that group, or I'd
love to go to the next boardmeeting and happy to take notes,
right, how can I contributethat type of thing that might be
(13:29):
very unpleasant, to speak upand say, hey, I'm actually up
for that if you give me theopportunity.
But here's the point, thinkingabout the creating belonging
model.
Can I jump for a second andthink a little bit about that,
if that's okay?
Justin (13:47):
Yeah, dig in.
Tre (13:49):
So, for me, the model has everything to do with
cultivating and nurturingenvironments that would welcome
this type of shift, honor it andallow it to thrive, and so not
dismissing the idea of change,but embracing it with open arms
and leaders really modeling andadvocating the self-awareness
(14:09):
required to move the ballforward.
So now, what do I do?
So, truly, I'm touching on thisidea of superficiality and
surface glances, right, thatmany companies and organizations
and agencies and the leaderswho are in charge, they're
captivated by this shiny object,right, but it's just the
surface, it's the superficialpiece of it.
(14:32):
It's not digging deep, right,so they're doing that instead of
doing the real work to enactlasting systems, change.
So, in the absence of that,you're really speaking to this
absence or void of emotionalcourage.
So, dei and belonging andjustice, work and efforts and
outputs and outcomes, they willnot be realized unless we dig
(14:55):
deeper and give ourselves andour people permission to dig
deeper.
So the uncomfortable feelingthat we get when we talk about
race and social equity andequality and change, that means
you're on to something right.
That feeling of this is, I feel, tense, right, that's that
emotional courage kicking in andso you're engaging that right,
(15:19):
and it should feel hard, and itshould feel hard to confront
what's in your way.
And so that's that advocatecoming behind you.
And so what is the barrier,what is the obstacle, what is
the impediment, what is thefalse hope, what is the misstep,
what is the challenge?
When you activate thatemotional courage needed to lead
, those hard parts become mucheasier.
(15:40):
But it really is that emotionalcourage that's missing from a
lot of the leadership in manyorganizations, and I talk a lot
about this idea of a ready nowleader, the readiness piece that
is often overlooked as part ofthe leadership journey.
If you're not developing thosereadiness skills, you're not
going to be able to create anenvironment that welcomes
(16:03):
something like the creatingbelonging model.
Justin (16:06):
Yeah, yeah, it's typically the people that are
like you're good at the job, soyou can now lead other people to
be good at the job, and that'sthat's such a small fraction of
being a good leader.
There's so many things I want tounpack from what you said,
because you've got that leaninginto discomfort and I probably
(16:27):
don't talk about that enough.
If you are really doing the workof creating belonging, leaning
into authenticity, leaning intoacceptance, if you are not
uncomfortable while you're doingthat, you're not doing it right
.
Yep, I probably don't talkabout that enough because it is
uncomfortable to to explorethese things and you wait around
(16:52):
in the muck of other people'sdiscomfort, also understanding
that, like the world's notperfect, we've got to figure
this out.
So there is that discomfort inexploring both sides of both
authenticity and then acceptance.
The other thing that I'm reallygetting into is this that
(17:12):
emotional courage piece and therole that it plays in
authenticity and really leaninginto our authenticity and being
courageous enough to be who weknow we want to be, not what
others expect of us, right, orwe think others expect of us,
and so leaning into that.
(17:33):
And then there was one otherpiece that I already lost
because there's so much in there, but I'm going to throw it over
to you and see what you thoughton all of that.
Tre (17:41):
Yeah, no, absolutely, justin.
You and I touched on this alittle bit when we spoke earlier
, but in my opinion, in myexperiences, belonging is part
of inclusion and authenticity ispart of inclusion, and so we
can think about these things alittle bit.
Of the connective tissue how dowe bring all these pieces
together?
Folks will talk about and,again, as a DEI practitioner,
(18:05):
there are opinions about so manydifferent things.
Right, people want to be ableto define things in ways that
make them comfortable.
And how do we get to thatunified place, especially when
you're talking about anorganization, a nonprofit, a
public agency, a school system,others, right, how do you talk
about bringing it all togetherso that folks can operate
(18:27):
cohesively?
You can have your opinion, Ihave mine, and how do we bring
those pieces together?
So, how do we think about thediversity?
How do we focus onrepresentation or the makeup of
the entity?
How do we talk about inclusion?
How do we talk about thosecontributions that folks make?
How do we bring all of thattogether?
The presence of different andvarying perspectives right,
(18:51):
people want to feel included andheard, and that, I think, is
that common thread, and so whenwe talk about emotional courage,
it's again setting the stagefor that.
The ready now leader that'smissing that readiness piece.
The ready now leader who'staking the job because of the
higher salary.
The ready now leader who'sthinking about how do I advance
(19:12):
my career because this would bethat next step and then I'll
stay here for six months,regardless of how I really
facilitate these spaces and makesure that my people are well
looked after and are given theseopportunities to advance their
own careers.
The ready now leader that'sjust taking it for the title and
they're fine, they're readybecause someone has said to them
(19:35):
come, do this job right,whether or not they've been on a
journey to develop themselves,to develop as a true leader who
can step into the role.
The other piece of it is thatemotional courage of recognizing
when the role isn't for you andyou're not ready.
(19:56):
So something that I talk aboutis understanding that leadership
is not for everyone, steppingback and being OK with saying
this actually isn't my time orthis actually isn't the
opportunity, having that selfawareness to be able to activate
that emotional courage.
The barrier is right there andthe barrier is you're going to
(20:17):
have to perform in this role andbecause the boss, who's liked
you for five years is now givingyou this opportunity.
You have to have that awareness, enough to say but how do I
bring the people?
Think, look at the full picture.
How do I bring the people whoare with me, how do I bring them
along, right A little bit ofthat selflessness and starting
(20:40):
to activate what's really forthe good of the order, for a
lack of a better expression,like how do we make this
something that everyone can feelgood about?
Justin (20:51):
Yeah, yeah, and it's not often that someone's tapped on
the shoulder for a promotion andthey turn it down.
It's an interesting perspective.
There's another thing that Iwanted to grab in there.
So we've talked about theauthenticity piece and the
emotional courage that comeswith that, but I also think
there's this part of allyship.
(21:12):
There are the individuals whoare willing to speak up and
raise their hand for anopportunity, and then there are
many individuals who are not,and there's an important role of
allyship.
And I think there's anothertopic that I'm exploring in the
second edition of the book ofadvocating for those who may not
be willing to speak up, andI'll put myself in this seat.
(21:37):
I'm someone who's rarely bashfulto speak up for what I want.
I'm pretty good at selfadvocacy.
I don't know if that's selfish,growing up as primarily an only
child and just I get what Iwant.
But regardless, I think for me,earlier in my career as a
leader, I would often think ifsomeone wants something, we'll
(21:59):
speak up because I would.
So why wouldn't they?
And I think we have to step outof that of.
You know, someone else mightwant something but they're not
going to speak up for it becausenot everybody's comfortable and
willing to do that.
So how do we, as leaders, howdo we as allies, make sure the
world is safe, make sure thatwe're advocating for others in a
(22:21):
helpful way, in service to them?
Tre (22:26):
Right.
So the allyship piece, and thenalso this understanding of
psychological safety right,cannot raise my hand, am I?
Can I take this reasonable risk, even if I don't get it Great,
but I was still allowed.
The environment allowed me.
The leader has now created thisspace for me to be able to
(22:47):
engage and not hesitate and notfeel like I don't have enough
training for that, but ask thequestion I've taken these two
courses, but can I take another?
Because I'm really interestedin what you presented last week
at the team meeting.
Right, having thatself-advocacy and that
self-awareness major right.
The psychological safety piecehow are you creating that in a
(23:09):
group?
How are you really speaking upin that allyship role?
How are you really making thatkind of this underpinning of all
of this other work that'scoming together to create these
spaces that really fosterbelonging?
And, again, I do believe thatit is aligning yourself.
When you're in a role, we canlook around the room.
(23:31):
Obviously, we're all going tolook different and I think way
back when I was starting out inmy career, I was looking who was
skin is dark like mine?
Right, that's my ally.
That wasn't true, right, I havebeen in experiences where women
who are darker than me.
So they are black women as well.
(23:53):
Their skin is darker than mine.
They were my biggest barrier.
They were my obstacle.
They were not the ally, right?
I'm a young woman starting outin her career.
You're the COO, right?
But there was this constantfriction of not really being in
(24:14):
this space of.
This is really about developingthe organization.
Right Now you have the corneroffice, but you're still
responsible for the people whoare not in the corner office,
right?
This still are responsible forthose people.
Those people, in theory, aremarginalized because they're
(24:34):
never going to have as muchaccess to the opportunities that
the C-suite has.
They're never going to havethose opportunities.
They're never going to be atthose tables to raise their hand
and volunteer for something.
Their salaries are never goingto match the CEO's salary, right
?
And so it's this idea oflooking beyond that surface
(24:56):
piece, right, looking beyond theidentity that might be readily
available and readily availableto see in that physical piece of
it, and taking a step back andactivating that ally-ship piece
and understanding that there aregoing to be people whose
(25:16):
opportunities will continue toflatline and they'll always be
linear, and your responsibilityas someone in an organization
who has risen and has moreaccess to these opportunities
and more access to informationto provide to the company.
That's your responsibility tobring that back and give people
(25:37):
that opportunity to hear thatand really absorb that knowledge
and understand how you cansupport them in that ally-ship
piece but then how they can inturn continue to support their
peers and others in the company.
Justin (25:51):
I'm curious I want to explore this because I don't
talk to anyone much about it butyou had brought up you had
hoped or assumed that otherblack women would be allies for
you and that wasn't the case.
I'm curious if there'ssomething in there around this
kind of in-group or assumedin-group competition.
(26:13):
Is it like, hey, if there'sopportunities, I'm saving them
for me?
Yeah, you got it and yes.
Tre (26:23):
Hello, that's the short answer.
That's the short answer.
My experience, really, it wasthat hoarding of the information
right, so Aligning as a blackwoman, right Aligning yourself
to the white CEO and reallygetting in good with that person
(26:45):
.
Justin (26:45):
Right.
Tre (26:46):
This was all strategic, right?
So how do I position myself?
So when it comes time to lookat the promotions, then I'm
already in with the CEO, not theother person.
That just wasn't my style,right?
So maybe it was naive, maybe itwas, but that wasn't how I
(27:06):
operated, right?
It wasn't part of my valuesystem.
I don't need to undercut otherpeople, right?
I can shine.
Right, I'm already very brightand shiny and I want the best
for everyone, right?
But being in a situation likethat and knowing that power
(27:26):
imbalance, again, this personalready being at a higher
seniority than I coming into theorganization, I just assumed
that if it's a competition, theyalready have all these other
people behind them.
And I'm new and I'm trying tomake a name for myself and do
well in this role, and I dothink it was a lot of that.
(27:51):
It was the there's only two ofus.
There's only two of us in thiscompany, and so it's gonna be
cutthroat, because that is theculture that was established and
accepted, right?
And so that's the unfortunatepiece, and I think there is a
lot of that.
But that really speaks toreally embedding those values
(28:15):
early and allowing individualsto come with their own values
and then finding that alignmentwith the organization, operate
together.
What is that harmony thatbrings us together and aligns
this and puts us on the samepage, that we can do this work
well and success.
And so I think for me that wasthe experience.
It was where there's two of us,and so if it's not you, it'll
(28:39):
be me, and it'll be me becausethat's what I've set up.
I've already set that up formyself.
Justin (28:44):
Yeah, no, it's interesting.
There's definitely the role oforganizational values and
organizational culture in thatcompetition.
Does that competition exist?
But I also think and I'mpositioning this in the most
respectful way of there's theneed for survival.
Right, I am clawing my way toget into a place where people
(29:07):
who don't look like me normallyget to, and then I'm getting
close, I'm not making room foranybody else and I'm in the
fault, that position because, Iunderstand it right, it is a
survival of trying to get tosomewhere and it's unfortunate
that we have those environmentsthat exist, I agree, but it's an
(29:29):
interesting perspective and,yeah, I wanna dig into that.
Tre (29:32):
Yeah.
Justin (29:33):
I'm curious as you look at your work in creating systems
that are more inclusive, andbecause I think there's two
things.
It is there's access, and thenthere is do people feel welcome
when they're there?
Do they have a sense ofbelonging?
What are like one or two keythings that just have to happen
(29:57):
in order for those things, thosedominoes, to fall in the right
way?
Tre (30:02):
It's a great question.
I think one of the things thatit would be beautiful if more
people would do this, but I knowthat people don't.
And I've talked to people abouthow do we get people to engage
more in their own process forlooking for a job?
Right, we've talked about notyou and I, but I've talked in
(30:24):
the past and I know you've heardthis but that idea of
interviewing the company, right,that idea when you're in there
asking those questions I knowcertainly young professionals.
They're not doing that, right,they're just gonna get the job.
And so I'm thinking thatthere's this practice of the
self-advocacy figuring out wheredo I want to land, rather than
(30:50):
what's the low-hanging fruit andmaybe it's going to be a good
fit and maybe it's not.
I think that there's a lot ofthat front-end work that then
translates into the job, whichthen translates into
organizational culture.
If you walk into a job andyou're like I'm standing on this
core value of belonging andthis is why I took this job,
(31:14):
this is why I said no to fiveother jobs, because I was
promised that in this space, inthis company culture, belonging
is priority, folks having theirvoice to challenge things and
feel like they can, but theorganization setting up the
(31:35):
environment so that again itreally speaks to that
psychological safety of bringingpeople into spaces where they
can have these candidconversations.
But it's a lot of the front-endwork, before you even get hired
, to be like what am I naming asthese non-negotiables?
And when it doesn't happen,who's the person I need to talk
(31:56):
to?
Not trying to ruffle anyfeathers, necessarily, but
holding people to a kill.
The same way that the companywants you to arrive at 9 am and
do your work and have thecompany computer and go to the
conference and all of that,there are expectations that the
employee is allowed to have, Iexpect to be paid twice a month,
(32:19):
I expect to have healthinsurance, I expect to have a
401K, I expect to be able to goto the team meeting and have a
culture that supports mydifferences and my voice and my
attitudes towards things whenthings really aren't okay, and
so we can work it in manydifferent ways.
(32:40):
But I do believe that it's thatfront-end before you even get
hired, what are yourexpectations?
And then making sure thosealign to the company that you're
applying to, and then havingthe opportunity to exercise your
own level of emotional courageto say, hey, fill in the blank.
(33:00):
So I think the company has somework to do setting up spaces in
this culture.
And it's not just the culture,it's really the organizational
infrastructure that needs to beset in this way so that all
these other things are startingto fall into place.
So it's not leadershipdevelopment, it's not leadership
readiness, it's organizationaldevelopment.
(33:20):
It is organizational readiness,right, it's systems change,
it's systems thinking, and soit's all of these things coming
together, but it's really insupport of the person coming in
to do the job that you'veadvertised and are now asking
someone to perform.
So what are your kind ofaccountability pieces?
(33:41):
And then what is that kind offor the person coming in, and
how do we start to align those?
Justin (33:47):
Yeah, that's great.
Thank you for that.
Thank you, trey.
I really enjoyed having aconversation with you today.
I've joined our conversationsbefore today as well, but I want
to make sure people can findyou, so how can our listeners
find you?
Tre (34:04):
Excellent.
You can find me on LinkedIn,Trey Cabrera, MRP, MSW, and you
can find me at Cabrera AdvisoryGroups website, which is
wwwcabragpcom.
Justin (34:19):
Excellent, and I'll make sure that we got some links in
the podcast notes so that peoplewill have access to you.
Trey, always a pleasurespeaking with you.
Thank you so much for joiningme on the podcast and we will
enjoy continuing to talk afterthe recording's off.
So thank you all.
Join us again for anotherepisode of the Creating Longing
podcast.
Tre (34:39):
Thanks, Shephton runterkanal community
싫enotingloverorg.
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