February 21, 2024 • 26 mins
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Have you ever found yourself donning a mask just to blend in with the crowd, suppressing your true self for the sake of acceptance? Our latest episode invites you into the world of Alex Draper, CEO and founder of DX, who shares his transformative voyage from an English village to the bustling streets of Chicago. Alex's tale is not just about geographic relocation but an internal metamorphosis, one that many of us yearn to experience. His candid narrative takes us from the halls of a posh boarding school to the helm of a thriving company, all while grappling with the authenticity of identity and the courage required to live unapologetically.
As we converse with Alex, we uncover the essential pillars of CARE—clarity, autonomy, relationships, and equity—and their profound impact on our journey towards self-realization. This episode isn't just a story; it's a mirror reflecting the societal pressures that shape us and a guidebook on how to dismantle them. Join us for a discussion that is as much about personal growth as it is about the collective consciousness—a place where being genuine isn't just welcomed, it's celebrated. Listen in for an inspiring, heart-to-heart conversation that promises to leave you contemplating the authenticity of your own life narrative and the strength found in embracing the diversity of thought.
Find Alex on LinkedIn or check out the DX Learning website.
You can order your copy of Creating Belonging on Amazon.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Justin (00:10):
Hello, welcome to another episode of the Creating
Belonging Podcast.
Today I have with me AlexDraper.
Alex, if you wouldn't mind,just introducing yourself.
Alex (00:20):
Good morning, afternoon, good evening, wherever you're
calling in from, wherever youare.
My name is Alex.
I am CEO and founder of acompany called DX here in
Chicago.
We're here to bring care to theworld.
Justin (00:33):
Amazing, amazing, and I'm excited for this
conversation kind of where we'lldig into.
I know the work that we do issimilar, but before we get
started and I just want to see,as we have, all of our guests
share some of their identities.
So if you wouldn't mind sharingwhat are some identities that
are relevant for you that mightcome up in this conversation?
Alex (00:53):
Yeah, I identify as my pronouns he, him.
I am white.
I was born in England in asmall little village I think.
We have a couple of hundredpeople and a lot of sheep and
cows.
I therefore I see myself as animmigrant here in America.
I only speak English, althoughtwo languages I speak English
and American English, so maybethat is bilingual in some ways
(01:18):
and I think that's it.
Justin (01:21):
Yeah, that difference comes in if you're talking about
biscuits or cookies and likegetting that like the important
things.
Alex (01:30):
Chips, Sorry, Chips.
Oh, chips or chips.
Yeah, no, I have spent.
As you can tell, when I go backto the UK they call me the Yank
, but when I come here they callme the Brits.
So just, I'm in thistransitional who I fly, I feel
like I.
There's an identity crisis, ifever you heard of one.
No, it's fascinating and I haveadapted.
They always say I think if youmove to a country before a
(01:52):
certain age I think it's 12, youadopt the language of that
country and after that you keep,like my wife's Polish.
She moved here when she's seven, but you wouldn't know.
But of course her parents aremoved here and they were older
than that and they speak with aPolish accent.
So just, it's always a littlefascinating to for immigrants of
what they keep and what theydon't.
Justin (02:13):
Yeah, and how that get how and when that gets cemented
in.
Yeah, I love it.
So I want to start off with oneof the questions that I think
resonated with you do, as youwere going through some of the
creating belonging work, and I'mcurious have you ever had, have
you ever covered up a part ofyour identity because you felt
(02:34):
maybe it wasn't welcomed?
Alex (02:38):
Yeah, a couple of times when I read the book, this was
the question I'm like yeah itstuck out.
I went to.
I'm a white guy and I callmyself privileged.
I went to a.
I went to a boarding school inthe UK One of the best my father
was had some issues, so we sayone of he was an extreme
(02:58):
narcissist and, of course,sending your son to a boarding
school in the UK is deemedamazing.
It made him look good, but wedidn't have the money for it.
We never.
We didn't grow up with moneyand it wasn't something that
that sending me to boardingschool is something that we
could afford.
So some major sacrifices weremade so I ended up going to a
school where, surrounded byextremely extreme affluence, and
(03:19):
that was what.
From the age of what?
Seven years of my life.
So, yeah, there was a case of Ihad to say things about and hide
things about the real realitiesof how I grew up and our
upbringing and where I lived andthe types of things that I had
to tell the story shall we sayabout and fabricate the truth
(03:40):
just to fit in.
The only looking back now do Ijust realize how traumatic that
was, while I was privileged andwent to an amazing school and
I'm here because of it.
Then get me wrong, just thetrope.
Now, as I look back and I'm ata age of reflection, it's just
amazing, by having to not beauthentic and to force
acceptance over such a long time, it was definitely had a huge
(04:03):
toll and I'll never forget it.
So, yeah, that was the one thatdefinitely springs up to mind.
Justin (04:09):
Yeah.
So I guess the first place I'mgoing with that I'm just
thinking about for that, likefor a kid, like growing up you
were wearing a mask every day,putting that on, and I'm
assuming at some point in yourtransition into adulthood and
current day, alex, you've peeledback that mask, but it probably
(04:34):
wasn't like one big reveal,like it had to be different
layers of getting comfortablewith just being you out in the
world.
I wanted that's where I want todig, like what I'm not selfie a
bit about that journey.
Alex (04:49):
I believe, many reasons why I moved to America, but I
believe escaping that was one ofthem.
What happens towards the latter, again a consciousness, I think
when you're 12, 13, there's adegree of just blissful
ignorance.
But the more conscious you get,the more the prefrontal cortex
kicks in and the moreunderstanding of what's going on
(05:09):
around you start to see whothis is.
My fakeness continued and gotmore.
The lies got worse in trying tofit in and I actually ended up
rebelling towards the end of it.
My grades suffered and then Iwas the pendulum swing and when
I my great grades failed I hadto go back to school for a
further year to.
But then I went to a differenttype of school where I thought I
(05:31):
fit in and I didn't fit inthere either, so that the
pendulum had swung for the badkids who failed, and I was one
of those bad kids who failed,and the consequences were at the
time, of course, the rebellionof.
I think there's only so muchthat you can take before you
start to, in my case, rebel dosomething, and then that
consequence led to me me justfalling significantly behind,
(05:52):
and then I truly believe it'sone of the reasons why I moved
here to really just start again.
I can be me here.
I can add to that I felt that'sanother story of me being here,
but that I felt that was Icould be me in a different
country and not have to hide.
Justin (06:07):
Yeah, that's.
It's interesting to like to beable to start that over.
There was.
So one of our guests on thefirst season, lauren, who's a
dear friend of mine, who grew upin London and she was an adult
with her sexuality when she wasin London and as soon as she
moved to the States, startedexploring that, and it was this.
(06:27):
We, I remember we choked abouthow it was, like she literally
came to the States for freedom,and it was that freedom of.
It wasn't like why she wouldsay that she came here, but it
was that freedom of oh, I canfigure out who I really.
So tell me a little bit aboutthat then, as you were exploring
who you are without the need tohave a mask on.
Alex (06:51):
It's like there's no filter.
So you moved to a country youdon't know anyone.
Because that's what happenedhere.
I said that I was I call itlucky and grateful that I had
the opportunity to take the thenbusiness hours.
We're over here and reallystart their US business.
So here's a phone, here's alaptop and off good life.
So it was like a clean sheet ofpaper.
There was no mask.
(07:12):
I could literally take the maskoff.
I didn't have to lie, I didn'thave to fit in and it was
liberating.
So that was when you have had tofight for acceptance and you
couldn't, I think, or fight, notbe authentic and fight for
acceptance, I think to just totake the filters off and the
(07:32):
mask off was liberating andcontinues to be.
And I think that's my lifesince I moved to America,
especially in the latter years.
Now is just that now I had theluxury to look back and think it
was really fascinating.
Our company, the team, did alifeline exercise where you the
10 major positives and negativesin your life.
You map them on a scale of zeroto 10, how stressful were they
(07:56):
and what were the impact anddoing that exercise really was
because I'm just becoming morevulnerable, I'm not too sure the
word vulnerable is rich too.
Very well, or European ingeneral, just for context.
On that note, I grew up mymother, we grew up with the
stiff upper lip, like youweren't allowed to be vulnerable
.
We were not allowed to talkabout our emotions.
I was never allowed to say Idon't fit here at school, and my
(08:19):
dad, sure as hell, made surethat there was no negotiation of
where you're going to school,regardless of the fact that I
was not happy.
He was very obvious I wasn'thappy, so there was a that's so
the lack of vulnerability, theinability to make decisions and
be given the autonomy,regardless of how I felt, and I
think that's a very Britishness,islander thing when you're come
(08:42):
from a place where we're justwe've rused and battered and
survived.
So there is us, but I don'tthink that's a good thing For
what we're talking about todaywith belonging.
You have to be vulnerable, youhave to be able to speak about
what's going on inside and alsopeople have to listen, to which
I had neither of those, so justa reflection of that was like
gosh.
It's great to be able toreflect, but it's definitely
(09:03):
which allows me to make surethat my kids don't grow up in
the same way in which I did andthey can, in your world, have a
feel that they belong.
Justin (09:12):
Yeah, yeah, something I'm curious about.
So I've actually working on thesecond edition of the book and
one of the areas that I know I'mcontinuing to dig.
In fact, today I was doing someacademic searches for
authenticity, trying to findmore of like how we're defining
authenticity.
I wanted to find it morefurther and really dig in, and
(09:34):
because this is you exploringand finding that authenticity,
I'm curious, as you've navigatedthat journey of taking off that
mask.
I would imagine and so I'mgoing to blow this up a little
bit I would imagine that in thatkind of pre Alex moving to the
States, there's a lot of likewhen you're, it's almost the
(09:55):
reverse of fake it till you makeit like you're faking it, and
so there's a part of thatbecomes you Right, and so I'm
just curious, in that journey,how much of that you have?
What have you learned aboutyourself?
And then, what have you had toshed?
That actually wasn't you.
Alex (10:18):
I think when you A group of friends, number one shedding
a group of friends that I don'tthink they would I think if they
listened to this podcast belike what?
So there's a group that knowsyou for that, and when you've
faked it for so long and had tolive in the skin of someone that
you're not really, you're notreally is it easier to face that
(10:42):
or just drop it.
In that case, a group of numberof friends that I grew up with
no longer talked to and that wasa part of the journey the
conversations, just theconversations that you have to
be able to have these types ofconversations with family
members, as I have done inrecent years, and you just get
(11:03):
it comes an age where or part ofyour life where something
happens to where you can just itall just starts to come out.
Which I'm in that stage, butI'm 45, so I'd say what, when my
dad died last year and so thisis all very recent, so when my
dad died, that was the triggerfor me to truly be me.
So under his watch, I havealways been a degree of I can't
(11:28):
be me.
I just can't be the Alex.
So this is only.
That was November last year, sowe're a year anniversary of me
being able to shed and reallyjust live the real Alex without
what's my dad gonna think ofthis, what's my dad gonna think
of that?
And that's inhibited my abilityto be true, authentic Alex.
So that's just a context andmoment in life and maybe all of
(11:48):
us have that not quite that, buta trigger to which we can those
who have had to have hid behindsomething and war of mass.
There must be a trigger for allof us that just allows us to
then be our true, authenticselves, and for me, that was my
dad.
Justin (12:05):
Yeah, that's interesting .
So I'm gonna compare that to inmy experience of like, when
there's an event that lets youdrop your guard.
So in my experience as a gayman, like that has been.
Like the coming out process isthat shedding right.
I'm sharing something with theworld.
That is the one thing that mostpeople might reject me for, and
(12:26):
so once that's, once you've letthat go, then you're cool and
we start to be and explore who Ireally am, and for some people
they may never have that.
Whatever, that coming outexperience is right.
And so it seems like you've hada couple of layers.
So one was coming to the stateswhere you could live in a place
that, like you've shed the massthat you had to wear.
(12:49):
And then the second piece isyour father passing, not needing
to pass whatever you're doing,needing to pass this approval.
So I'm curious what you foundthat in the past year of what's
changed for you.
Alex (13:01):
The ability to speak my mind links into psychological
safety?
Maybe it is.
I feel free of freedom ofspeech.
I can be able to voice exactlyhow I feel, to voice to look
back at my life and really putit out and go.
(13:23):
That wasn't cool and whathappened here.
I just think it's free.
I feel, whatever reason, morefree than I've ever been to be
able to speak my mind and bevulnerable and open and talk to
people about who I really am,because I don't have to look
over my shoulder.
Yeah there's no police.
(13:44):
There's no police going to comearrest me and say you can't say
that.
So I don't know if that is butdad, if it's just age and just
maturity, but whatever it is, Ijust yeah, I have never felt of
an ability to be true, authenticAlex.
Justin (14:06):
So you've been on this journey, continuing to find your
own authenticity.
I'm curious, then.
So I want to flip to the otherside of just the between
authenticity and acceptance.
And flip to the other side howhave those experiences of
needing to mask how thatimpacted the way that you
(14:26):
approach acceptance with others?
Alex (14:29):
I think it's as the years have gone by, when it comes to
this side of it and acceptance,I always have less felt the need
to explain things about the wayI am to others and the need to.
Hey, I went to Shrewsburyschool and, again, the elements
(14:49):
of the mask, doesn't?
I had created habits andprocesses and just the way I
taught and there was a need toexpress this as who I am to
others, and I think that hassubsided to the point where I
don't even feel the need to talkabout that and feel the
(15:09):
importance of hey, where did yougo to school or what did you do
.
So just, there's, there's athat used to be a thing, maybe
it's a British thing, but hey,where do you go to school?
There's definitely a class inUK.
That was a thing, that was ahabit that I I had, which then,
of course, in terms of cognitivediversity and diversity, it
pigeons you when you think likethat and it's, it becomes habit.
(15:33):
It just yeah, it swayed theconversation and now it's again
going to freedom.
It's I don't, I'm, I don't haveno filter.
I am there for the other personand my ears are far.
My ears are bigger than theywere before Am I going down a
different path?
Justin (15:52):
No, I think that makes sense.
I think the this idea that yourears are bigger metaphorically,
I like that, but I also likethe shifting of how you're the
questions you're asking toalmost filter through
understanding who someone is.
So that, what school did you goto?
It was very common and I'mactually relating to that, but
(16:15):
on the flips side and a way thatI've navigated that when I was
early in my professional careerI hadn't yet finished my
undergrad, but I was working ona team of six people.
Six out of eight had advanceddegrees for about unjust
undergrad.
Six out of eight had advanced.
One of them had their, justtheir undergrad, and then Justin
(16:38):
had none of that.
I had not finished my undergradyet, and so there was a lot of
imposter syndrome, and there was.
It was just automatic If you'rehere, you obviously have had
have some formal education,right, and so it was very common
.
But where'd you go to school?
And I would just very plainlyanswer I went to Iowa State
because that's where I started.
(16:59):
I didn't.
I never said I finished, Ididn't say anything else, I just
said that's where I went toschool, because that wasn't a
lie, but it also wasn't the fulltruth and I actually don't talk
about that whole journey at tonbecause there's all of the
stigma that comes around all ofthat, but there's, I can
understand that side of it rightwhen I'm.
(17:20):
When someone's asking thatquestion, it is very much a
qualifier of who are.
When do you come from?
Did you go to a state collegeor did you go to a private
college Like Harvard versuswhere I just went to a community
college?
There's going to be a lot ofvalue judgment that can come
into that conversation and so Ido think, like I'm hearing you
(17:43):
say that I don't ask someonewhere they're going to school as
like a small thing, butactually I think it's huge in
acceptance is finding ways toget to know people in without
typical filters.
Alex (18:03):
Good.
So I was on a on the right-ishpath of acceptance, which is,
again, less filters, more thatthe bit, the more like anything
good in life comes from yourability to listen, talk less,
listen more and be curious,which, of course, if you have
filters and you're again, ifyou're trying to be accepted, I
(18:23):
will only talk to people fromthe school or from this bucket,
whatever that bucket is then ofcourse that is a problem.
The more you're trying to fitin and be accepted for that,
that destroys cognitivediversity and cognitive thought,
because you're just channelinginto one area which is not good
(18:44):
to take it for the modernworkplace or home or anything.
Justin (18:48):
Yes, so yeah, I think it is that shift in your
perspective on how you'regetting to know others as a part
of that acceptance piece.
Alex (19:02):
Yeah, and I think when you go to an elite school I don't
know, I don't understand theresearch, but I can only imagine
just the acceptance piece mustbe huge when you have that much
privilege.
Unless I'm sure you putdeliberate thought into it, it
will drive on the authentic andacceptance place.
I wonder what it does on thosetwo spectrums, or not just elite
(19:25):
school, elite sport, elite,anything, when you're in the 1%
of anything, I'm sure there'schallenges with both
authenticity and acceptance.
Justin (19:35):
Yeah, I think and I'm going to say this anecdotally
and not based in any research,but in my experience that
elitism leads to inauthenticity,because we are trying to fit
this mold of who and or.
It becomes everything that weare Right, like you go to an
(19:56):
elite school and that's likewhat you lead with, of how you
introduce yourself, as opposedto okay, cool, that's where you
went to school, congratulations,like what else is interesting
about you, right.
So there's that I'm just goingto say anecdotally.
I have had that experience withindividuals.
And then I think the otherpiece is when you come from that
elite perspective, you also putyourself in a place where
(20:21):
others don't fit the level thatyou need to be at Right, and I'm
also I'm saying that claimingof any elite place, but also the
acceptance piece.
Over the past year, with mytherapist, have been working on
Justin as quick to assess peopleand determine whether or not
they fit his intellectual level,and then it makes decisions
(20:46):
from there and I'm like breakingthat down because that's
something that I need to dealwith at its rest.
Alex (20:51):
Yeah, fascinating yeah.
Justin (20:57):
So I'm curious, in this conversation, in the work that
you do, what are some of theparallels that you might see?
Alex (21:07):
The work that we do is.
I think, as I started theconversation, dx is to bring
care to the world.
But what is care?
Care are the human skills thatgets the hard work done Priority
, autonomy, relationships andequity, and I think a lot of
what you're just talking aboutis especially in the A and the R
and the E.
(21:27):
I truly believe not much goodhappen, but team, for us to have
the time and presence to beable to do what we are doing
right, having a conversationabout life, about ourselves and
all of that, we can be betterhuman beings, we can be more
authentic, we can have moreacceptance.
So just to do that, you needtime and energy and I think
(21:48):
that's the biggest problem thatwe have in this world is we
don't have the time and energyto be doing what we're doing.
So see a therapist to beintrospective, retrospective and
to think versus do.
America and much of the worldis all about doing and we reward
the do and if you're doing,you're not thinking, and this is
what we're talking about.
It needs thinking anddeliverance and intentionality.
(22:09):
So care is in the workplace andin any community, any team of
humans.
With my wife and my kids, we'rea team.
The team needs clarity and ifit doesn't have clarity, it's
the opposite of clarity, is fear.
Fear drives a dark side.
If Darth Vader comes out andbad things happen, right, we
can't speak up if we don't haveclarity, because the opposite of
(22:29):
clarity is fear.
So we need clarity.
And if we starve people haveclarity, bad things happen.
Autonomy we need autonomybecause if you try, the opposite
of autonomy is control.
Who loves to be controlled?
Put your hands up.
No one likes to be controlled.
We date this element of control, but we don't like to be
controlled.
So we need to give autonomy.
We use that by using our twoears and asking lots of
(22:50):
questions and being curious,flexible, adaptable
Relationships the opposite ofrelationships is silence, the
opposite of what we're doingright now.
Right, the inability to bevulnerable and speak up is a
problem, but that's whererelationships come from.
The opposite of equity isunfairness.
So for those things, theopposites are what stops us from
(23:11):
speaking up and being able tomore than likely lead into our
true, authentic self.
Because I can't be vulnerableand speak up, that's a problem.
So care is a framework playbookthat we're bringing to the
workplace for leaders to carefor their teams and give them
the right, adept and matchedclarity, autonomy, relationships
and equity, because the closerthe variance between what a
(23:33):
leader gives and what a teammember needs, the more equity is
felt.
So I think there's a directcorrelation, because what we're
trying to do as a business isget leaders to intentionally
delegate, use their time in theright buckets to get their team
members to speak up and be morecomfortable about being go
figure, vulnerable.
So I think there's a directcorrelation between what we're
(23:54):
doing.
We're trying to help peoplethink and help people be more
authentic by speaking up andbeing vulnerable, like what my
journey's been like.
It's not 45 years long and wecan do it in a couple of years.
That'd be great, becausethere's a lot of pain in the
workplace right now.
So I think there's a directcorrelation between our work.
Justin (24:12):
Yeah, I can definitely see the.
I think your model is very muchaimed at leadership, right, and
so that clarity piece is key.
But if we look at justbelonging, I think there's the
autonomy relates to authenticityand the relationships and
equity relate to acceptanceright, and because that's how we
(24:35):
all coexist in a way that weget to be ourselves, do the work
that we enjoy, in a way that weenjoy it and belong with other.
Yeah, it was interesting.
I wanted to play that and seethose parallels, so thank you
for indulging me.
Alex (24:54):
Dev.
No to that last point.
My favorite question inrelationships came from a lady
called Amarie.
In a leader's, the question Ishould be.
One of the questions I shouldask as a leader is tell me one
thing that I don't know aboutyou, but I should.
That will help our relationship.
I think that is a greatquestion that creates more
(25:16):
authenticity and belonging atthe same time, because if you're
open and I'm asking you, hey,tell me something I don't know
about you.
That would improve ourrelationship.
It's hard.
I love that question.
I use that question.
It's amazing what I learn aboutpeople when that question's
asked.
So yeah, there's a lot ofcommonality between sense of
(25:37):
belonging and leaders justcaring for their people.
We should make a very good jobof it, by the way.
Justin (25:43):
Yeah, I hear you.
I hear you.
Alex.
Thank you so much for joiningme.
How can people find you findout more about your work?
Alex (25:52):
Just check me out at LinkedIn.
These are the ones Alex Draper,dx Learning, and you'll see
this face pop up.
There's a newsletter on there.
Sign up to that.
I just put on my own vulnerable.
The more as a year goes by, themore stories come out, as
you've heard.
So, no, that's a great way tolearn about what we're doing and
the work that we do.
So, yeah, linkedin is probablythe best one.
Justin (26:12):
Great, and I'll make sure we include a link in the
show notes for that.
So thank you again for joiningme today.
It's been fun to talk to you,as always, and everyone.
I'll stay tuned for anotherepisode of the Creating Building
and Podcast.
Thanks, Alex.
Alex (26:28):
Thanks for having me, Justin.
Hello, welcome to another episode of the Creating
Belonging Podcast.
Today I have with me AlexDraper.
Alex, if you wouldn't mind,just introducing yourself.
Alex (00:20):
Good morning, afternoon, good evening, wherever you're
calling in from, wherever youare.
My name is Alex.
I am CEO and founder of acompany called DX here in
Chicago.
We're here to bring care to theworld.
Justin (00:33):
Amazing, amazing, and I'm excited for this
conversation kind of where we'lldig into.
I know the work that we do issimilar, but before we get
started and I just want to see,as we have, all of our guests
share some of their identities.
So if you wouldn't mind sharingwhat are some identities that
are relevant for you that mightcome up in this conversation?
Alex (00:53):
Yeah, I identify as my pronouns he, him.
I am white.
I was born in England in asmall little village I think.
We have a couple of hundredpeople and a lot of sheep and
cows.
I therefore I see myself as animmigrant here in America.
I only speak English, althoughtwo languages I speak English
and American English, so maybethat is bilingual in some ways
(01:18):
and I think that's it.
Justin (01:21):
Yeah, that difference comes in if you're talking about
biscuits or cookies and likegetting that like the important
things.
Alex (01:30):
Chips, Sorry, Chips.
Oh, chips or chips.
Yeah, no, I have spent.
As you can tell, when I go backto the UK they call me the Yank
, but when I come here they callme the Brits.
So just, I'm in thistransitional who I fly, I feel
like I.
There's an identity crisis, ifever you heard of one.
No, it's fascinating and I haveadapted.
They always say I think if youmove to a country before a
(01:52):
certain age I think it's 12, youadopt the language of that
country and after that you keep,like my wife's Polish.
She moved here when she's seven, but you wouldn't know.
But of course her parents aremoved here and they were older
than that and they speak with aPolish accent.
So just, it's always a littlefascinating to for immigrants of
what they keep and what theydon't.
Justin (02:13):
Yeah, and how that get how and when that gets cemented
in.
Yeah, I love it.
So I want to start off with oneof the questions that I think
resonated with you do, as youwere going through some of the
creating belonging work, and I'mcurious have you ever had, have
you ever covered up a part ofyour identity because you felt
(02:34):
maybe it wasn't welcomed?
Alex (02:38):
Yeah, a couple of times when I read the book, this was
the question I'm like yeah itstuck out.
I went to.
I'm a white guy and I callmyself privileged.
I went to a.
I went to a boarding school inthe UK One of the best my father
was had some issues, so we sayone of he was an extreme
(02:58):
narcissist and, of course,sending your son to a boarding
school in the UK is deemedamazing.
It made him look good, but wedidn't have the money for it.
We never.
We didn't grow up with moneyand it wasn't something that
that sending me to boardingschool is something that we
could afford.
So some major sacrifices weremade so I ended up going to a
school where, surrounded byextremely extreme affluence, and
(03:19):
that was what.
From the age of what?
Seven years of my life.
So, yeah, there was a case of Ihad to say things about and hide
things about the real realitiesof how I grew up and our
upbringing and where I lived andthe types of things that I had
to tell the story shall we sayabout and fabricate the truth
(03:40):
just to fit in.
The only looking back now do Ijust realize how traumatic that
was, while I was privileged andwent to an amazing school and
I'm here because of it.
Then get me wrong, just thetrope.
Now, as I look back and I'm ata age of reflection, it's just
amazing, by having to not beauthentic and to force
acceptance over such a long time, it was definitely had a huge
(04:03):
toll and I'll never forget it.
So, yeah, that was the one thatdefinitely springs up to mind.
Justin (04:09):
Yeah.
So I guess the first place I'mgoing with that I'm just
thinking about for that, likefor a kid, like growing up you
were wearing a mask every day,putting that on, and I'm
assuming at some point in yourtransition into adulthood and
current day, alex, you've peeledback that mask, but it probably
(04:34):
wasn't like one big reveal,like it had to be different
layers of getting comfortablewith just being you out in the
world.
I wanted that's where I want todig, like what I'm not selfie a
bit about that journey.
Alex (04:49):
I believe, many reasons why I moved to America, but I
believe escaping that was one ofthem.
What happens towards the latter, again a consciousness, I think
when you're 12, 13, there's adegree of just blissful
ignorance.
But the more conscious you get,the more the prefrontal cortex
kicks in and the moreunderstanding of what's going on
(05:09):
around you start to see whothis is.
My fakeness continued and gotmore.
The lies got worse in trying tofit in and I actually ended up
rebelling towards the end of it.
My grades suffered and then Iwas the pendulum swing and when
I my great grades failed I hadto go back to school for a
further year to.
But then I went to a differenttype of school where I thought I
(05:31):
fit in and I didn't fit inthere either, so that the
pendulum had swung for the badkids who failed, and I was one
of those bad kids who failed,and the consequences were at the
time, of course, the rebellionof.
I think there's only so muchthat you can take before you
start to, in my case, rebel dosomething, and then that
consequence led to me me justfalling significantly behind,
(05:52):
and then I truly believe it'sone of the reasons why I moved
here to really just start again.
I can be me here.
I can add to that I felt that'sanother story of me being here,
but that I felt that was Icould be me in a different
country and not have to hide.
Justin (06:07):
Yeah, that's.
It's interesting to like to beable to start that over.
There was.
So one of our guests on thefirst season, lauren, who's a
dear friend of mine, who grew upin London and she was an adult
with her sexuality when she wasin London and as soon as she
moved to the States, startedexploring that, and it was this.
(06:27):
We, I remember we choked abouthow it was, like she literally
came to the States for freedom,and it was that freedom of.
It wasn't like why she wouldsay that she came here, but it
was that freedom of oh, I canfigure out who I really.
So tell me a little bit aboutthat then, as you were exploring
who you are without the need tohave a mask on.
Alex (06:51):
It's like there's no filter.
So you moved to a country youdon't know anyone.
Because that's what happenedhere.
I said that I was I call itlucky and grateful that I had
the opportunity to take the thenbusiness hours.
We're over here and reallystart their US business.
So here's a phone, here's alaptop and off good life.
So it was like a clean sheet ofpaper.
There was no mask.
(07:12):
I could literally take the maskoff.
I didn't have to lie, I didn'thave to fit in and it was
liberating.
So that was when you have had tofight for acceptance and you
couldn't, I think, or fight, notbe authentic and fight for
acceptance, I think to just totake the filters off and the
(07:32):
mask off was liberating andcontinues to be.
And I think that's my lifesince I moved to America,
especially in the latter years.
Now is just that now I had theluxury to look back and think it
was really fascinating.
Our company, the team, did alifeline exercise where you the
10 major positives and negativesin your life.
You map them on a scale of zeroto 10, how stressful were they
(07:56):
and what were the impact anddoing that exercise really was
because I'm just becoming morevulnerable, I'm not too sure the
word vulnerable is rich too.
Very well, or European ingeneral, just for context.
On that note, I grew up mymother, we grew up with the
stiff upper lip, like youweren't allowed to be vulnerable
.
We were not allowed to talkabout our emotions.
I was never allowed to say Idon't fit here at school, and my
(08:19):
dad, sure as hell, made surethat there was no negotiation of
where you're going to school,regardless of the fact that I
was not happy.
He was very obvious I wasn'thappy, so there was a that's so
the lack of vulnerability, theinability to make decisions and
be given the autonomy,regardless of how I felt, and I
think that's a very Britishness,islander thing when you're come
(08:42):
from a place where we're justwe've rused and battered and
survived.
So there is us, but I don'tthink that's a good thing For
what we're talking about todaywith belonging.
You have to be vulnerable, youhave to be able to speak about
what's going on inside and alsopeople have to listen, to which
I had neither of those, so justa reflection of that was like
gosh.
It's great to be able toreflect, but it's definitely
(09:03):
which allows me to make surethat my kids don't grow up in
the same way in which I did andthey can, in your world, have a
feel that they belong.
Justin (09:12):
Yeah, yeah, something I'm curious about.
So I've actually working on thesecond edition of the book and
one of the areas that I know I'mcontinuing to dig.
In fact, today I was doing someacademic searches for
authenticity, trying to findmore of like how we're defining
authenticity.
I wanted to find it morefurther and really dig in, and
(09:34):
because this is you exploringand finding that authenticity,
I'm curious, as you've navigatedthat journey of taking off that
mask.
I would imagine and so I'mgoing to blow this up a little
bit I would imagine that in thatkind of pre Alex moving to the
States, there's a lot of likewhen you're, it's almost the
(09:55):
reverse of fake it till you makeit like you're faking it, and
so there's a part of thatbecomes you Right, and so I'm
just curious, in that journey,how much of that you have?
What have you learned aboutyourself?
And then, what have you had toshed?
That actually wasn't you.
Alex (10:18):
I think when you A group of friends, number one shedding
a group of friends that I don'tthink they would I think if they
listened to this podcast belike what?
So there's a group that knowsyou for that, and when you've
faked it for so long and had tolive in the skin of someone that
you're not really, you're notreally is it easier to face that
(10:42):
or just drop it.
In that case, a group of numberof friends that I grew up with
no longer talked to and that wasa part of the journey the
conversations, just theconversations that you have to
be able to have these types ofconversations with family
members, as I have done inrecent years, and you just get
(11:03):
it comes an age where or part ofyour life where something
happens to where you can just itall just starts to come out.
Which I'm in that stage, butI'm 45, so I'd say what, when my
dad died last year and so thisis all very recent, so when my
dad died, that was the triggerfor me to truly be me.
So under his watch, I havealways been a degree of I can't
(11:28):
be me.
I just can't be the Alex.
So this is only.
That was November last year, sowe're a year anniversary of me
being able to shed and reallyjust live the real Alex without
what's my dad gonna think ofthis, what's my dad gonna think
of that?
And that's inhibited my abilityto be true, authentic Alex.
So that's just a context andmoment in life and maybe all of
(11:48):
us have that not quite that, buta trigger to which we can those
who have had to have hid behindsomething and war of mass.
There must be a trigger for allof us that just allows us to
then be our true, authenticselves, and for me, that was my
dad.
Justin (12:05):
Yeah, that's interesting .
So I'm gonna compare that to inmy experience of like, when
there's an event that lets youdrop your guard.
So in my experience as a gayman, like that has been.
Like the coming out process isthat shedding right.
I'm sharing something with theworld.
That is the one thing that mostpeople might reject me for, and
(12:26):
so once that's, once you've letthat go, then you're cool and
we start to be and explore who Ireally am, and for some people
they may never have that.
Whatever, that coming outexperience is right.
And so it seems like you've hada couple of layers.
So one was coming to the stateswhere you could live in a place
that, like you've shed the massthat you had to wear.
(12:49):
And then the second piece isyour father passing, not needing
to pass whatever you're doing,needing to pass this approval.
So I'm curious what you foundthat in the past year of what's
changed for you.
Alex (13:01):
The ability to speak my mind links into psychological
safety?
Maybe it is.
I feel free of freedom ofspeech.
I can be able to voice exactlyhow I feel, to voice to look
back at my life and really putit out and go.
(13:23):
That wasn't cool and whathappened here.
I just think it's free.
I feel, whatever reason, morefree than I've ever been to be
able to speak my mind and bevulnerable and open and talk to
people about who I really am,because I don't have to look
over my shoulder.
Yeah there's no police.
(13:44):
There's no police going to comearrest me and say you can't say
that.
So I don't know if that is butdad, if it's just age and just
maturity, but whatever it is, Ijust yeah, I have never felt of
an ability to be true, authenticAlex.
Justin (14:06):
So you've been on this journey, continuing to find your
own authenticity.
I'm curious, then.
So I want to flip to the otherside of just the between
authenticity and acceptance.
And flip to the other side howhave those experiences of
needing to mask how thatimpacted the way that you
(14:26):
approach acceptance with others?
Alex (14:29):
I think it's as the years have gone by, when it comes to
this side of it and acceptance,I always have less felt the need
to explain things about the wayI am to others and the need to.
Hey, I went to Shrewsburyschool and, again, the elements
(14:49):
of the mask, doesn't?
I had created habits andprocesses and just the way I
taught and there was a need toexpress this as who I am to
others, and I think that hassubsided to the point where I
don't even feel the need to talkabout that and feel the
(15:09):
importance of hey, where did yougo to school or what did you do
.
So just, there's, there's athat used to be a thing, maybe
it's a British thing, but hey,where do you go to school?
There's definitely a class inUK.
That was a thing, that was ahabit that I I had, which then,
of course, in terms of cognitivediversity and diversity, it
pigeons you when you think likethat and it's, it becomes habit.
(15:33):
It just yeah, it swayed theconversation and now it's again
going to freedom.
It's I don't, I'm, I don't haveno filter.
I am there for the other personand my ears are far.
My ears are bigger than theywere before Am I going down a
different path?
Justin (15:52):
No, I think that makes sense.
I think the this idea that yourears are bigger metaphorically,
I like that, but I also likethe shifting of how you're the
questions you're asking toalmost filter through
understanding who someone is.
So that, what school did you goto?
It was very common and I'mactually relating to that, but
(16:15):
on the flips side and a way thatI've navigated that when I was
early in my professional careerI hadn't yet finished my
undergrad, but I was working ona team of six people.
Six out of eight had advanceddegrees for about unjust
undergrad.
Six out of eight had advanced.
One of them had their, justtheir undergrad, and then Justin
(16:38):
had none of that.
I had not finished my undergradyet, and so there was a lot of
imposter syndrome, and there was.
It was just automatic If you'rehere, you obviously have had
have some formal education,right, and so it was very common
.
But where'd you go to school?
And I would just very plainlyanswer I went to Iowa State
because that's where I started.
(16:59):
I didn't.
I never said I finished, Ididn't say anything else, I just
said that's where I went toschool, because that wasn't a
lie, but it also wasn't the fulltruth and I actually don't talk
about that whole journey at tonbecause there's all of the
stigma that comes around all ofthat, but there's, I can
understand that side of it rightwhen I'm.
(17:20):
When someone's asking thatquestion, it is very much a
qualifier of who are.
When do you come from?
Did you go to a state collegeor did you go to a private
college Like Harvard versuswhere I just went to a community
college?
There's going to be a lot ofvalue judgment that can come
into that conversation and so Ido think, like I'm hearing you
(17:43):
say that I don't ask someonewhere they're going to school as
like a small thing, butactually I think it's huge in
acceptance is finding ways toget to know people in without
typical filters.
Alex (18:03):
Good.
So I was on a on the right-ishpath of acceptance, which is,
again, less filters, more thatthe bit, the more like anything
good in life comes from yourability to listen, talk less,
listen more and be curious,which, of course, if you have
filters and you're again, ifyou're trying to be accepted, I
(18:23):
will only talk to people fromthe school or from this bucket,
whatever that bucket is then ofcourse that is a problem.
The more you're trying to fitin and be accepted for that,
that destroys cognitivediversity and cognitive thought,
because you're just channelinginto one area which is not good
(18:44):
to take it for the modernworkplace or home or anything.
Justin (18:48):
Yes, so yeah, I think it is that shift in your
perspective on how you'regetting to know others as a part
of that acceptance piece.
Alex (19:02):
Yeah, and I think when you go to an elite school I don't
know, I don't understand theresearch, but I can only imagine
just the acceptance piece mustbe huge when you have that much
privilege.
Unless I'm sure you putdeliberate thought into it, it
will drive on the authentic andacceptance place.
I wonder what it does on thosetwo spectrums, or not just elite
(19:25):
school, elite sport, elite,anything, when you're in the 1%
of anything, I'm sure there'schallenges with both
authenticity and acceptance.
Justin (19:35):
Yeah, I think and I'm going to say this anecdotally
and not based in any research,but in my experience that
elitism leads to inauthenticity,because we are trying to fit
this mold of who and or.
It becomes everything that weare Right, like you go to an
(19:56):
elite school and that's likewhat you lead with, of how you
introduce yourself, as opposedto okay, cool, that's where you
went to school, congratulations,like what else is interesting
about you, right.
So there's that I'm just goingto say anecdotally.
I have had that experience withindividuals.
And then I think the otherpiece is when you come from that
elite perspective, you also putyourself in a place where
(20:21):
others don't fit the level thatyou need to be at Right, and I'm
also I'm saying that claimingof any elite place, but also the
acceptance piece.
Over the past year, with mytherapist, have been working on
Justin as quick to assess peopleand determine whether or not
they fit his intellectual level,and then it makes decisions
(20:46):
from there and I'm like breakingthat down because that's
something that I need to dealwith at its rest.
Alex (20:51):
Yeah, fascinating yeah.
Justin (20:57):
So I'm curious, in this conversation, in the work that
you do, what are some of theparallels that you might see?
Alex (21:07):
The work that we do is.
I think, as I started theconversation, dx is to bring
care to the world.
But what is care?
Care are the human skills thatgets the hard work done Priority
, autonomy, relationships andequity, and I think a lot of
what you're just talking aboutis especially in the A and the R
and the E.
(21:27):
I truly believe not much goodhappen, but team, for us to have
the time and presence to beable to do what we are doing
right, having a conversationabout life, about ourselves and
all of that, we can be betterhuman beings, we can be more
authentic, we can have moreacceptance.
So just to do that, you needtime and energy and I think
(21:48):
that's the biggest problem thatwe have in this world is we
don't have the time and energyto be doing what we're doing.
So see a therapist to beintrospective, retrospective and
to think versus do.
America and much of the worldis all about doing and we reward
the do and if you're doing,you're not thinking, and this is
what we're talking about.
It needs thinking anddeliverance and intentionality.
(22:09):
So care is in the workplace andin any community, any team of
humans.
With my wife and my kids, we'rea team.
The team needs clarity and ifit doesn't have clarity, it's
the opposite of clarity, is fear.
Fear drives a dark side.
If Darth Vader comes out andbad things happen, right, we
can't speak up if we don't haveclarity, because the opposite of
(22:29):
clarity is fear.
So we need clarity.
And if we starve people haveclarity, bad things happen.
Autonomy we need autonomybecause if you try, the opposite
of autonomy is control.
Who loves to be controlled?
Put your hands up.
No one likes to be controlled.
We date this element of control, but we don't like to be
controlled.
So we need to give autonomy.
We use that by using our twoears and asking lots of
(22:50):
questions and being curious,flexible, adaptable
Relationships the opposite ofrelationships is silence, the
opposite of what we're doingright now.
Right, the inability to bevulnerable and speak up is a
problem, but that's whererelationships come from.
The opposite of equity isunfairness.
So for those things, theopposites are what stops us from
(23:11):
speaking up and being able tomore than likely lead into our
true, authentic self.
Because I can't be vulnerableand speak up, that's a problem.
So care is a framework playbookthat we're bringing to the
workplace for leaders to carefor their teams and give them
the right, adept and matchedclarity, autonomy, relationships
and equity, because the closerthe variance between what a
(23:33):
leader gives and what a teammember needs, the more equity is
felt.
So I think there's a directcorrelation, because what we're
trying to do as a business isget leaders to intentionally
delegate, use their time in theright buckets to get their team
members to speak up and be morecomfortable about being go
figure, vulnerable.
So I think there's a directcorrelation between what we're
(23:54):
doing.
We're trying to help peoplethink and help people be more
authentic by speaking up andbeing vulnerable, like what my
journey's been like.
It's not 45 years long and wecan do it in a couple of years.
That'd be great, becausethere's a lot of pain in the
workplace right now.
So I think there's a directcorrelation between our work.
Justin (24:12):
Yeah, I can definitely see the.
I think your model is very muchaimed at leadership, right, and
so that clarity piece is key.
But if we look at justbelonging, I think there's the
autonomy relates to authenticityand the relationships and
equity relate to acceptanceright, and because that's how we
(24:35):
all coexist in a way that weget to be ourselves, do the work
that we enjoy, in a way that weenjoy it and belong with other.
Yeah, it was interesting.
I wanted to play that and seethose parallels, so thank you
for indulging me.
Alex (24:54):
Dev.
No to that last point.
My favorite question inrelationships came from a lady
called Amarie.
In a leader's, the question Ishould be.
One of the questions I shouldask as a leader is tell me one
thing that I don't know aboutyou, but I should.
That will help our relationship.
I think that is a greatquestion that creates more
(25:16):
authenticity and belonging atthe same time, because if you're
open and I'm asking you, hey,tell me something I don't know
about you.
That would improve ourrelationship.
It's hard.
I love that question.
I use that question.
It's amazing what I learn aboutpeople when that question's
asked.
So yeah, there's a lot ofcommonality between sense of
(25:37):
belonging and leaders justcaring for their people.
We should make a very good jobof it, by the way.
Justin (25:43):
Yeah, I hear you.
I hear you.
Alex.
Thank you so much for joiningme.
How can people find you findout more about your work?
Alex (25:52):
Just check me out at LinkedIn.
These are the ones Alex Draper,dx Learning, and you'll see
this face pop up.
There's a newsletter on there.
Sign up to that.
I just put on my own vulnerable.
The more as a year goes by, themore stories come out, as
you've heard.
So, no, that's a great way tolearn about what we're doing and
the work that we do.
So, yeah, linkedin is probablythe best one.
Justin (26:12):
Great, and I'll make sure we include a link in the
show notes for that.
So thank you again for joiningme today.
It's been fun to talk to you,as always, and everyone.
I'll stay tuned for anotherepisode of the Creating Building
and Podcast.
Thanks, Alex.
Alex (26:28):
Thanks for having me, Justin.
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