March 20, 2024 • 32 mins
Let us know what you think of this podcast!
When I stepped into the vibrant world of an NGLCC conference, I didn't just find opportunities—I discovered a family. This episode brings you the voice of Justin Nelson, co-founder and president of the National LGBT Chamber of Commerce. We journey through the organization's history, its transformative rebranding, and the ways it propels the economic presence of LGBTQ-owned businesses. You'll hear how a powerful sense of belonging and an ethos of mutual success are at the core of every NGLCC initiative, from affiliate chambers to global expansion and certification programs.
Remember the days when disco balls ruled the night? We do too—and we bring that same energy to a discussion about the importance of participation and presence. Feel the pulse of a community coming together, dressed in their '80s best, at a themed disco party that's more than just a good time—it's an embrace of diversity and inclusion within the LGBTQ+ community. Justin and I dig into the strides taken to support transgender, gender expansive individuals, and communities of color, acknowledging the personal experiences that fuel these efforts and the drive to create spaces where everyone feels valued.
Closing the episode, Justin reflects on the indelible mark of his past in Casper, Wyoming, and the solidarity he found in a group of friends who understood the journey of identity and belonging. Justin graciously shares how you can engage with the NGLCC, whether through their affiliate programs, getting certified, or attending an upcoming conference. If you're looking to connect, find a touchstone in the NGLCC, or simply want to learn more, our conversation is an open invitation to a world where inclusivity isn't just a buzzword—it's a way of life. Join us for a heartfelt exploration of what it means to belong, in business and beyond.
You can order your copy of Creating Belonging on Amazon.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Justin Reinert (00:10):
Hello and welcome to another episode of
the Creating the Lunging podcast.
Today I have with me JustinNelson.
He is one of the founders ofthe NGLCC, but I'll let Justin
describe that and talk abouthimself a little bit, if you
wouldn't mind giving us an intro.
Justin Nelson (00:28):
Well.
Thanks, justin as well.
It's always nice to be with afellow Justin, from who we get
Jason a lot as well, so nice tomeet you.
Can you get Jeff?
I get Jeff and I have a brother, jeff, so it's even more than
Well.
Thank you, I appreciate theopportunity to be here and
everything you're doing to helpput this topic out there and
share it as broadly and widelyas possible.
(00:51):
So I am co-founder and presidenthere at the National LGBT
Chamber of Commerce, confusinglyknown as NGLCC, because for
many years we were the NationalGay and Lesbian Chamber of
Commerce, had a lot of brandequity in that acronym, so we
did rebrand as the National LGBTChamber, but we did keep our
NGLCC acronym, which happens alot in Washington, I think,
(01:12):
because organizations evolved tomeet the needs of the time.
We are an organization thatconsists of now 54 affiliate
chambers across the US, stateand local chambers.
We now have 29 globallyrepresenting 40 countries on
five continents.
So it surely is a globalnetwork of LGBTQ and allied
(01:35):
business owners, professionalsand corporate partners.
We work with around 450 majorcorporations, most of them
multinational, and our backboneprogram is to help LGBTQ owned
businesses become certified andget into the diverse supply
chain to be able to bid oncontracts as a diverse supplier
with those 450 corporatepartners.
(01:57):
And it's not just littlecontracts.
We do literally billions ofdollars a year in business.
So for companies they're atleast 51% owned, operated and
controlled by an LGBT person orpersons.
Certification is the way to gowhen they get there through
joining their local affiliatechamber and can find that on our
website at nglccorg.
Justin Reinert (02:19):
That's so great.
I love the organization thatyou have built.
How long has nglcc been around?
Justin Nelson (02:27):
We will be 22 years old in November.
So yeah, we're out of ouradolescence.
Justin Reinert (02:36):
Yeah, it's so incredible.
You've got to be proud of theorganization that you've built.
So my business performanceaccelerated learning.
We became certified in Decemberof 22,.
I believe we're just over ayear of being a certified
business, and I want to.
With this episode, I'm going togo a little off track than
(02:58):
where we normally go, justbecause I want to highlight some
of the work of the nglcc andthe experiences you create, and
so I'm going to tell a bit of astory and then that I want to
tee up to hear a little bitabout your reaction and your
thoughts on how you built this.
We were together in August inDenver, right, and it was a
(03:24):
conference unlike any that I'veever attended.
It was almost and I say this inthe most kind way almost
uncomfortably inclusive, to thepoint where people would just
come up to you anywhere in thehotel and say, hey, my name's
so-and-so and here's what I do.
What's your business?
Tell me about where you're from.
I made connections and friendsthere.
(03:47):
I actually made friends withsomeone who literally lives
three blocks from me here inChicago.
We had never met before met inDenver, and now we've had drinks
and are talking about someprojects that we're going to
work on together.
So it was just such anincredible experience.
And first and I think this is apart of my as a gay man,
(04:12):
there's a bit of gardenessnormally in those settings and I
don't know, and or in life ingeneral and so to be in this
place where everyone's guard wasdown and just really genuinely
connecting with others andmaking these amazing
relationships, it was so great.
So, first off, to cut it short,you've nailed creating
(04:35):
belonging within this bigcommunity of the NGLCC, but I'd
love to hear from yourperspective.
I don't know any thoughts on myexperience or things you've
heard from others.
I just would love to hear aboutwhat you built Well, I love
that.
Justin Nelson (04:51):
Denver was your sort of dive in the pool moment.
It was probably my favorite,and I have the luxury of having
been to all conferences we'veever done and they just keep
getting better, and I think it'sjust part of the people and I
think there is an organic natureto it, but there is also what I
would call curate authenticity.
It's about creating a scenariowhere what you hope happens
(05:16):
actually has the ability tohappen, and it goes back 22
years now it will be 22 inNovember when my co-founder,
chance Mitchell, and I were justsort of checking around the
idea of launching thisorganization and there was just
something really important to us.
We wanted to have anorganization that we wanted to
belong to.
We wanted to build somethingthat we would want to join.
(05:39):
We wanted to have events thatwe would want to go to and that
we multiplied into other waysand team members and partners
and so forth, and it has reallybeen this building on top of.
It's almost like a Lego set herethat we keep building this
magnificent model of what we cando when we work together to use
(06:02):
it or we let our guard down.
I think we're all that way.
I think we can be our own worstcritics or a circular firing
squad.
There's no lot of cattiness andjust if you don't know someone
and that sort of thing.
What we did was we said we'regoing to build a big sandbox and
those people that want to playin the sandbox are welcome to
and those that don't want to,they held with you because we're
(06:24):
going to enjoy ourselves andwe're going to build a space
where people feel welcome, theyfeel as though they belong, they
have an advocate in ourorganization that genuinely
cares about the success of theircompany.
I had about making genuineconnections, and we're going to
use that as sort of the baselevel that we're building this
amazing organization on.
Justin Reinert (06:46):
So I'd love to hear, as you've been building,
there has to be a lot ofintentionality that goes into
setting the tone years ago, 22years ago, to get to the point
where you're at today, that thiscommunity thrives in the way
that it does.
Something that I am writingabout in the second edition of
(07:08):
my book is creating belongingfor organizations, and how do
you set out with intentionalityto create belonging for large
groups of people?
I'm curious what those thingswere that you did.
Justin Nelson (07:20):
It's a great question.
I think a lot of it's gettingin the laboratory and seeing
what works and, I think, moreimportantly, what doesn't work.
We are not the sameorganization.
There are two things that arethe same about this organization
.
Today is the day we werefounded, and that's chance.
Everything else has continuallyevolved.
For me, I believe that thephrase well, that's the way
(07:42):
we've always done it is thedeath large of any organization,
of any company.
I don't care how greatsomething has been, there's
always ways of improving it,bringing new ideas to the table,
and that's what we've done isconstantly evolve.
I remember actually seeing thissign in Caesars Palace in Las
Vegas and I snapped a picture ofit and I think about it a lot.
(08:03):
It says icons reinvent, othersimplode.
So the premise being that ifyou want to stay on top, if you
want to stay relevant, you'vegot to constantly be not
reinventing and losing youridentity, but keeping up with
the times, making sure you'rebeing responsive to what you
hear, and that's both internallyand externally.
(08:23):
And so we have a wonderfulgroup of team members.
We don't have employees, wehave team NGLC.
We really try to make sure thatpeople feel like they're a part
of something larger, reallywork hard, especially in this
virtual environment.
It went totally virtual postCOVID.
I think we're one of theorganizations that made the job.
Many haven't been able to, Ithink, to the degree of success
(08:45):
that we have and being veryintentional about who you bring
on to a team.
We're a team of about 25.
So while it's the large side ofsmall, it's still small and
it's people that fit the culture.
I don't mean they have to agreeon everything.
We don't want everyone justbeing, yes, people.
We want new, fresh ideas,people being hungry to make
(09:06):
their work and help ourstakeholders forge forward.
But there's a culture andpeople have to be really
omnipresent, I think, inensuring that the culture that
people they bring into theirculture are people that help,
that flourish and change it inways that are positive.
So making sure that you're notbringing in subversive
personalities or constantcomplainers or people that all
(09:28):
they want to do is think aboutthe downside of things versus
the true, real opportunity thatwe have here.
I often say I will do anythingfor my team.
My responsibility is to theorganization that are
stakeholders, and that includesour team.
But I would fire my mother ifshe weren't doing her job, and
we have to be willing to makehard decisions where they need
(09:51):
to be made and to bring othersalong with the vision of what we
have and what we're trying toaccomplish.
My way, or the highway, is nota winning recipe.
That doesn't mean sometimesyou've got to forge forward like
a steamroller, but you reallydo need to be able to bring
people along and also shareleadership and responsibility,
(10:11):
and I think that's what'shappened in our organization.
That's allowed us to flourish.
And then just one last thing.
It's a little bit of our secretrecipe, but I'll share just a
bit of it here.
The other phrase I hate isdon't sweat the small stuff.
You always have to sweat thesmall stuff.
When people get in a room, likeyou experienced in Denver,
there was very little that wasleft a chance and the experience
(10:34):
that we wanted people to have.
It really comes from puttingthings in place that allow
people to naturally go to theplaces that you hope that they
get to.
And it's little things, littletouches that you probably
wouldn't know if you just look.
But we think about them andthere are things that we want to
make sure that we sweat thesmall stuff, that we consider
(10:55):
the things, because itdifferentiates us from our
colleagues, from our friends andfriendly competitors, that sort
of thing.
You can put the same people inthe same room but a different
event, and it will feeldifferently.
The large portion of ourattendees attend several of
these a year and I'm with you.
There is such a difference atour event than I feel or that
(11:18):
people feel sometimes at others.
Not that they're notwonderfully, or but there's just
something different.
One person said to me atconference this year I have
never been so exhausted and mycup has never been more full as
I'm leaving here, and I thinkthat's really how I feel.
I remember early years I usedto literally fall up in the
(11:38):
fetal position at the end ofconference because I was
exhausted from it, bothphysically and emotionally and
so forth.
I really get a recharge from itnow.
It's just something sowonderful to see the people
connecting and, like you said,you met some of the lids three
blocks away.
So I think those are thingsthat we focus on and that
(12:00):
constant reinvention.
Don't get stuck in the rut,don't let the wheels just spin
in motion and go nowhere.
Justin Reinert (12:07):
Speaking of details, something that stands
out to me.
So, first off, I'm in astereotype, but when I
stereotype around my ownidentity, I'm okay with that.
But, like, seriously, give abunch of gay men a theme party.
I think it was.
The Wednesday night event was adisco theme party and everyone
(12:31):
in costumes and I mean full oncostume, not just something
simple.
Yeah, so you have the detailsdown and that was unlike any
traditional hour long cocktailparty that I've ever attended.
Justin Nelson (12:49):
Well it was.
We've been wanting to do aneighties party forever.
Chance and I had that was sortof the heyday we were growing up
.
That's a lot of memories, a lotof good memories and some not
so great memories.
Maybe we'll talk about them alittle bit later.
But we wanted to do this.
We're like you know what, let'sdo it.
Denver's the right place.
And I thought naively and I'mglad I was surprised I thought
(13:10):
maybe 30% of the people wouldshow up in costume and when I
looked around that room at theend of the night, 80% yeah
probably 90% of the people hadsome eighties garb on and we
historically have kept thatparty open about between 15, 30
minutes later than we usually doon the week.
(13:31):
After it opened, an hour laterthan it was going to go, just
because people were having funand dancing and playing the
eighties music and it was just.
It was such a remarkableexperience, I think, for me
personally.
But as I looked down and sawthis joy on everyone's face, it
really was like, yeah, you knowwhat?
We have something to be proudof.
(13:52):
This is something that peoplebelong to.
Justin Reinert (13:55):
Yeah, and what was that event?
I didn't stay until the closeof the event, but it was that
event that determined that inthe future I will always stay at
the host hotel, because inDenver, to save money, I stayed
with some friends who live inDenver and so I wasn't going to
get crazy that night and neededto drive back out.
And so then I was like, okay,well, I have to stay at the host
(14:18):
hotel from now on becausethere's just too much going on.
Justin Nelson (14:23):
Well, that'll be the rent aside.
There's actually four hosthotels this year, but the main
is rent full in spring.
So there's that one hotel thatfits us all, but the main one's
attached to the conventioncenter, so when registration
goes live, I would book there asquickly as you.
Justin Reinert (14:38):
Yeah, that's amazing.
Well, I'll make sure to keepput a registration link in the
show notes so that people cancheck that out.
That's too intentional andcreating belonging.
Another thing I want to touchon because and I'm making
assumptions here and I think,based on the evolution of kind
of the history that I've seen,these are safe fish assumptions.
(14:59):
I would imagine that in theearly days there was very much a
focus of kind of gay men, gaywomen, but what I experienced in
Denver there were more transbusiness folk that I've seen
ever in one place, which wasjust incredible.
And I know that someorganizations trip over
(15:19):
themselves to really expandscope to the full spectrum of
LGBTQ plus and whatever letterswe want to throw in there.
So I'm curious what you've doneover the years to ensure that
lens stays wide.
Justin Nelson (15:34):
I think two things.
One is never thinking you'vedone enough because you haven't,
and so always looking at waysthat you continue to expand that
tits, that welcome mat.
And we were very intentionalseveral years ago now about
creating programs that targetedTGX, transgender and gender
(15:57):
expansive communities andcommunities of color to let them
know that this was a placewhere they belong.
We looked at actually theimpetus were two things.
One, it was having aconversation at one of our
events and we were very proudabout the trans inclusion that
was happening.
It was minuscule, a fraction ofwhat you saw in Denver, and a
(16:20):
trans woman named you probablymet her at conference.
Ashley came up to me and saidyou need to do more trans work.
I said we absolutely do.
What are you going to do tohelp?
And so we created our trans TGXinitiative with the whole
purpose of identifying andletting trans business owners
(16:42):
know that this was anorganization that cared about
them, their well-being.
We went right after ascholarship program that we do
with Wells Fargo, which helpstrans businesses get membership
in their local affiliate chamberand thereby get certified.
And then we had an experiencewhere we had a black, a business
owner who belongs both to NGLCC, certified to us, also
(17:07):
certified to the NationalMinority Supplier Development
Council and he came to me andLewis Green it was the acting
head of NMSDC at the time and hesaid I don't always feel
comfortable as a black man atNGLCC and I don't always feel
comfortable as a gay man atNMSDC.
And I said that's exactly whatwe don't want you feeling, so
(17:31):
let's be intentional about this.
And so we created ourcommunities of color initiative.
We launched it in Tampa I guessit would have been 2018, 2019.
I don't remember exactly.
And I remember we had invitedevery person of color that had
registered because we do collectdemographic information and had
(17:51):
identified and invited them toour town hall.
And I will tell you that thisis just by being intentional.
I took questions and listened tothe community for what's
supposed to be an hour.
We ended up there, I think two,two and a half hours, I think.
(18:12):
People walked in there.
They were ready to kick someass and we walked out of there
ready to kick some ass together,which was really great.
And those people have become ourchampions in the marketplace in
saying, hey, yeah, this is anorganization you can belong to.
That's, this is somewhere whereyou can be yourself, you can
(18:33):
feel welcome, you can feel heard, and you mentioned something in
the preface to this aboutunderstanding yes, we're gay,
but we're white.
We do have white privilege, wehave male privilege and
utilizing that privilege whereI'm able to be in a room where,
for whatever reason, othersaren't yet.
So I see it as my duty to kickthat door down or to walk
(18:58):
through it as I can and sit atthe table and make sure that I'm
constantly advocating for thattable to be larger and I think
about it as allies, what allieshave done for us.
So I think, even within our ownLGBTQ space, we have to be
allies to the communities ofcolor, allies to trans and
gender expands and allies tothose LGBTQ people with
(19:19):
disabilities, so on and so on,and externally, with those
larger communities.
And that's what happens.
We just said we're going to beintentional about this.
We've created variouseducational programs that
specifically target our Cochiand TGX communities.
We have a cohort of ourAccelerate Executive Leadership
(19:40):
and Scaling Education programthat is only Cochi and TGX
related, and we have, I think,nearly quadrupled the number of
trans businesses, and I'm proudto say that over a quarter of
our certified supply base arebusinesses that are owned by
people of color.
So is it enough?
No, is it better than it was?
(20:02):
Absolutely, and are we going tocontinue to keep working on it?
Yes, we are, and as we bringmore people in, they become more
ambassadors for us in themarketplace, and it really does
become that multiplying effect.
Justin Reinert (20:15):
That's so amazing and those are great
examples of how you've committedto evolution and reinvention.
I love the idea of just notsettling where you're at and the
way that you spoke aboutenrolling others, where Ashley
said to you, hey, you're notdoing enough for trans
(20:36):
individuals, and you said you'reright, and what are you going
to do to help us?
I think it's amazing.
That also speaks to I want tohelp, but we need more than just
me, so come join us.
It's incredible.
So I love the work that you'vedone.
It's incredible, and I don'twant this to be just a
commercial for the NGLCC.
So I want to talk about JustinNelson.
(20:58):
Justin Nelson, I had to say thatyour last name, so we know that
we're not talking about myselfand the third person.
Sure, we can talk about you.
If you'd prefer, let's talkabout Justin Nelson.
I'd love to hear, I want to diginto you kind of beyond NGLCC,
and I know you've dug a bit intothe work of creating, belonging
, the model that I've got in thebook, and I'd love to hear just
(21:19):
some of your experiences, likewhat in your life resonated back
to you in the model.
Justin Nelson (21:26):
Well, I'm going to start with minimizing.
I remember distinctly as aneight-year-old kid or, excuse me
, eighth grade kid in Casper,wyoming, where I grew up walking
down the street and having acarload of what I assumed was
(21:46):
high schoolers drive by and yellout the window hey, are you a
woman?
And I yelled back no.
And they yelled back Well, yousure would walk like one.
And at that moment I realized,well gosh, I gotta butch it up.
(22:08):
I need to minimize who I am.
I don't even fully understandwho I am and I think about that
story.
I don't tell that story a lot,but here I am, 50 years old and
I still remember it like it wasyesterday and that's.
I don't remember it fondly.
(22:28):
I almost wondered where I wouldbe on the spectrum if I'd had
just said like you and went on abit.
It's stupid, but I did.
And so I don't know if it's anydifferent of the person I am
today or not, but I do thinkthat it made me sort of
reinforce the masculine aspectsof who I was, or who I was
(22:50):
supposed to be at the time, andthat's something that's a part
of me and I think thoseexperiences make us who we are
today, and I always hate when wesay, well, it makes you
stronger and blah, blah, blah,but no, it actually makes you
miserable.
Sometimes you need to thinkabout it.
But it also makes you think youknow what I?
I?
They didn't pull over and beatthe snot out of me, so I'm
(23:11):
thankful for that, but itcertainly, I think it almost led
to some of them the reclusivebehavior as well.
I was not, I mean I should.
It's different.
I mean there was a guy.
There was a football player,wrestler, a very popular guy who
was out and about in highschool and dated around and was
(23:32):
a part of everything and but Ialways knew in the back of my
mind who I was and wasn't.
Until I got the opportunity tomove to Washington for an
internship and got my firsttaste of gay life away from home
and away from closed minds,that I realized what the world
(23:54):
was, it could be.
Justin Reinert (23:57):
And where I belong, those moments and it's
interesting when you say it'ssomething that you don't share a
lot.
I think we all have thoselittle, those like really small
moments that actually createdbig meaning for us in our lives,
because that thing, while youdon't talk about that, that that
(24:19):
moment, often it probably popsin your mind or is there kind of
nagging at you Like how are youwalking today?
Justin Nelson (24:29):
Yeah, and I mean I remember I there were other
kids that I assumed were gay inhigh school and I ran with the
in crowd and I made it mypurpose, I guess, at times to
keep them from picking on theother kids.
Well, in my own mind I wasscared to death that someone
(24:50):
would find out about me or thinkthat about me.
But I think there was at leastsome of that.
Justin Reinert (24:55):
Yeah, and in the yeah, in the 80s and 90s, when
we were growing up, like it was,that was there.
Wasn't Will and Grace ontelevision that we could look to
as what success?
I mean and I'm not going tocall that like what success
looks like as gay people, butit's at least.
Justin Nelson (25:13):
Well, that was fire.
The first time we saw ourselvesin primetime.
I think, oh my gosh, we'repeople now like caricatures and
things get a bit annoying.
But I really think at the timeit was groundbreaking and so
much needed, to your point.
I remember as a kid the gaypeople that I had seen were in
the police Academy movies, goingto the blue oyster bar.
(25:35):
They were not portrayed inpositive light, but I remember
Barty Frank when he first cameout, and Dick army, the
political junkie.
So forget me for regressing andgoing on the house floor as the
house leader at Colleen Barty.
You know it's just remarkablehow sometimes bullies don't grow
up and they become the bullywhen they get in positions of
(25:57):
power, although I think a lot ofpeople, as we've seen or have
and continue to push back onthat.
But those are things weremember.
On the belonging side of things, I came out and was working on
the Hill for Wyoming senator.
He was wonderful.
He's since passed, but Iremember going around then.
I was a Christmas party in 1996.
(26:21):
I think it would have been andI had a little too much to drink
and told my roommate at thetime that I was gay and he was
wonderful and I'd been seeingsomeone, and so he and his
girlfriend invited us to dosomething.
It was the first time ever I'dbeen able to do something sort
of publicly with another guy.
And then I decided I was goingto tell everyone.
(26:43):
I wanted to hear from my mouth.
And then I was going to tell myfriend Jennifer, because I knew
she'd tell everybody else.
I'd offered that to this day,but she's very good at getting
messaging out, let's put it thatway.
So I did.
And then I moved in with my thenboyfriend.
Shortly thereafter we broke up.
I didn't know a soul, a gaysoul, other than another guy on
(27:05):
staff, the senator's office.
So I moved into DC.
I was living in Virginia andgot a job one night a week at a
gay bar and then was about tomove.
I'd added I wasn't reallyfulfilled.
I was going to go back west.
I moved all my stuff back.
I was doing health care,lobbying at the time.
I'd left jail and then that onenight a week at the bar, and
(27:27):
then I moved in.
I met this amazing group ofpeople that became friends,
chance being one of them to thisday.
We were all gathered in FortModerdale for my 50th.
We get together for majorevents.
It's the same group of peoplethat I have Not that we don't
have other friends or haven'tmade them, but the same group of
people that have been myfriends since Labor Day 1998.
(27:51):
And that is a group you reallybelong to because they know me.
Before there was an NGLCC, theydon't care about anything that
comes along with it.
There's a genuine wonderfulfeeling for having that kind of
belonging, where they don't care.
They know you, they know yourbackground, they know the
(28:11):
stories that would keep you outof public office today if they
were told that sort of stuff.
So that is really important.
I think in some ways we try tobring that into what we do at
NGLCC.
I mean, the guys and I we had ahouse in Rehoboth Beach,
delaware, every summer and therewere these theme parties that
some of the houses would do.
(28:32):
Well, of course, we dove rightin the deep end on it and it
became this great rivalry overthe summers between this other
house and our house as to whowas going to have the best
backyard theme party.
And so we've been able to carrysome of that experience and the
joy that we saw from peoplethat attended into what we try
to curate for NGLCC and that, Ithink, makes it even more
(28:55):
special and more close to thework that we do, and it's always
like our friends are with us aswe're doing it.
Justin Reinert (29:01):
Yeah, so it was the backyard parties that
inspired the theme parties atNGLCC.
Justin Nelson (29:09):
The hands down, you may see a few recycled for
2024 and beyond over the nextfew years.
Justin Reinert (29:19):
Well, it'll be my first time experiencing it,
so I'll be fine.
And one thing I want to go backand kind of capture there is
there's an interesting in thatstoryline that you've shared.
The pivot was really when youwere able to be yourself, when
you felt comfortable, beingvulnerable, leaning into your
(29:41):
authenticity, that you foundthat group of people where you
had that true belonging andwhere it exists today.
Oh, absolutely so.
It speaks to that, theauthenticity side of the model
that we talk about a lot.
Justin Nelson (29:57):
It's funny.
How will you?
And to be fully transparent, Ithink I used to be off the
charts extrovert.
If there was something going on, I had to be a part of it.
I am much to be part of its age, part of its work, to give a
lot to what we do and it takes alot out of a person.
And so I think the last time Idid the virus breaks.
(30:19):
If you put any trust in that.
I was just a slight introvert.
Now Now I put my extrovert onwhen I get out and we're doing
an advantage or something likethat.
But it's interesting, and soyou just naturally close
yourself off a little bit in aposition like mine.
But I find every time I'mwilling to open up a little bit
(30:40):
or be a little bit vulnerablewith people or with an
experience, I have yet to bedisappointed by what the return
to me is.
So it's about remembering thatwe don't always remember it, but
taking time to think about thegood things that come when you
are authentic and when you openyourself up to that experience.
Justin Reinert (31:00):
Absolutely, and I do think I think as we mature.
I just think we balance outBecause I'm with you.
I used to.
I needed to be at every party,I needed to be at everything
that was going on, and now Istill like to be out and
involved, but I'm also cool,just like chilling on the couch
for a bit.
Justin Nelson (31:20):
Well, my partner's forced me to have a
social life again, so that'sgood.
I met him a little over a yearago, and so he is a very social
person, so we kind of balanceeach other out a little bit.
Justin Reinert (31:33):
That happens, naturally.
I love that.
Well, justin, thank you so muchfor spending some time with me
today and on the CreatingBlowing Podcast.
I just want to make sure, ifpeople want to get in touch with
you and or the NGLCC, what arethe best ways to do that?
Justin Nelson (31:50):
NGLCC is wwwnglccorg.
You can learn about ouraffiliates, about certification,
about conference, everythingthere.
And if you want to reach out tome, you can do that at
JustinNelsonnglccorg.
Justin Reinert (32:09):
Great.
Well, justin, thank you so muchagain and everyone else, join
us again for another episode ofthe Creating Blowing Podcast.
Thanks,
Hello and welcome to another episode of
the Creating the Lunging podcast.
Today I have with me JustinNelson.
He is one of the founders ofthe NGLCC, but I'll let Justin
describe that and talk abouthimself a little bit, if you
wouldn't mind giving us an intro.
Justin Nelson (00:28):
Well.
Thanks, justin as well.
It's always nice to be with afellow Justin, from who we get
Jason a lot as well, so nice tomeet you.
Can you get Jeff?
I get Jeff and I have a brother, jeff, so it's even more than
Well.
Thank you, I appreciate theopportunity to be here and
everything you're doing to helpput this topic out there and
share it as broadly and widelyas possible.
(00:51):
So I am co-founder and presidenthere at the National LGBT
Chamber of Commerce, confusinglyknown as NGLCC, because for
many years we were the NationalGay and Lesbian Chamber of
Commerce, had a lot of brandequity in that acronym, so we
did rebrand as the National LGBTChamber, but we did keep our
NGLCC acronym, which happens alot in Washington, I think,
(01:12):
because organizations evolved tomeet the needs of the time.
We are an organization thatconsists of now 54 affiliate
chambers across the US, stateand local chambers.
We now have 29 globallyrepresenting 40 countries on
five continents.
So it surely is a globalnetwork of LGBTQ and allied
(01:35):
business owners, professionalsand corporate partners.
We work with around 450 majorcorporations, most of them
multinational, and our backboneprogram is to help LGBTQ owned
businesses become certified andget into the diverse supply
chain to be able to bid oncontracts as a diverse supplier
with those 450 corporatepartners.
(01:57):
And it's not just littlecontracts.
We do literally billions ofdollars a year in business.
So for companies they're atleast 51% owned, operated and
controlled by an LGBT person orpersons.
Certification is the way to gowhen they get there through
joining their local affiliatechamber and can find that on our
website at nglccorg.
Justin Reinert (02:19):
That's so great.
I love the organization thatyou have built.
How long has nglcc been around?
Justin Nelson (02:27):
We will be 22 years old in November.
So yeah, we're out of ouradolescence.
Justin Reinert (02:36):
Yeah, it's so incredible.
You've got to be proud of theorganization that you've built.
So my business performanceaccelerated learning.
We became certified in Decemberof 22,.
I believe we're just over ayear of being a certified
business, and I want to.
With this episode, I'm going togo a little off track than
(02:58):
where we normally go, justbecause I want to highlight some
of the work of the nglcc andthe experiences you create, and
so I'm going to tell a bit of astory and then that I want to
tee up to hear a little bitabout your reaction and your
thoughts on how you built this.
We were together in August inDenver, right, and it was a
(03:24):
conference unlike any that I'veever attended.
It was almost and I say this inthe most kind way almost
uncomfortably inclusive, to thepoint where people would just
come up to you anywhere in thehotel and say, hey, my name's
so-and-so and here's what I do.
What's your business?
Tell me about where you're from.
I made connections and friendsthere.
(03:47):
I actually made friends withsomeone who literally lives
three blocks from me here inChicago.
We had never met before met inDenver, and now we've had drinks
and are talking about someprojects that we're going to
work on together.
So it was just such anincredible experience.
And first and I think this is apart of my as a gay man,
(04:12):
there's a bit of gardenessnormally in those settings and I
don't know, and or in life ingeneral and so to be in this
place where everyone's guard wasdown and just really genuinely
connecting with others andmaking these amazing
relationships, it was so great.
So, first off, to cut it short,you've nailed creating
(04:35):
belonging within this bigcommunity of the NGLCC, but I'd
love to hear from yourperspective.
I don't know any thoughts on myexperience or things you've
heard from others.
I just would love to hear aboutwhat you built Well, I love
that.
Justin Nelson (04:51):
Denver was your sort of dive in the pool moment.
It was probably my favorite,and I have the luxury of having
been to all conferences we'veever done and they just keep
getting better, and I think it'sjust part of the people and I
think there is an organic natureto it, but there is also what I
would call curate authenticity.
It's about creating a scenariowhere what you hope happens
(05:16):
actually has the ability tohappen, and it goes back 22
years now it will be 22 inNovember when my co-founder,
chance Mitchell, and I were justsort of checking around the
idea of launching thisorganization and there was just
something really important to us.
We wanted to have anorganization that we wanted to
belong to.
We wanted to build somethingthat we would want to join.
(05:39):
We wanted to have events thatwe would want to go to and that
we multiplied into other waysand team members and partners
and so forth, and it has reallybeen this building on top of.
It's almost like a Lego set herethat we keep building this
magnificent model of what we cando when we work together to use
(06:02):
it or we let our guard down.
I think we're all that way.
I think we can be our own worstcritics or a circular firing
squad.
There's no lot of cattiness andjust if you don't know someone
and that sort of thing.
What we did was we said we'regoing to build a big sandbox and
those people that want to playin the sandbox are welcome to
and those that don't want to,they held with you because we're
(06:24):
going to enjoy ourselves andwe're going to build a space
where people feel welcome, theyfeel as though they belong, they
have an advocate in ourorganization that genuinely
cares about the success of theircompany.
I had about making genuineconnections, and we're going to
use that as sort of the baselevel that we're building this
amazing organization on.
Justin Reinert (06:46):
So I'd love to hear, as you've been building,
there has to be a lot ofintentionality that goes into
setting the tone years ago, 22years ago, to get to the point
where you're at today, that thiscommunity thrives in the way
that it does.
Something that I am writingabout in the second edition of
(07:08):
my book is creating belongingfor organizations, and how do
you set out with intentionalityto create belonging for large
groups of people?
I'm curious what those thingswere that you did.
Justin Nelson (07:20):
It's a great question.
I think a lot of it's gettingin the laboratory and seeing
what works and, I think, moreimportantly, what doesn't work.
We are not the sameorganization.
There are two things that arethe same about this organization
.
Today is the day we werefounded, and that's chance.
Everything else has continuallyevolved.
For me, I believe that thephrase well, that's the way
(07:42):
we've always done it is thedeath large of any organization,
of any company.
I don't care how greatsomething has been, there's
always ways of improving it,bringing new ideas to the table,
and that's what we've done isconstantly evolve.
I remember actually seeing thissign in Caesars Palace in Las
Vegas and I snapped a picture ofit and I think about it a lot.
(08:03):
It says icons reinvent, othersimplode.
So the premise being that ifyou want to stay on top, if you
want to stay relevant, you'vegot to constantly be not
reinventing and losing youridentity, but keeping up with
the times, making sure you'rebeing responsive to what you
hear, and that's both internallyand externally.
(08:23):
And so we have a wonderfulgroup of team members.
We don't have employees, wehave team NGLC.
We really try to make sure thatpeople feel like they're a part
of something larger, reallywork hard, especially in this
virtual environment.
It went totally virtual postCOVID.
I think we're one of theorganizations that made the job.
Many haven't been able to, Ithink, to the degree of success
(08:45):
that we have and being veryintentional about who you bring
on to a team.
We're a team of about 25.
So while it's the large side ofsmall, it's still small and
it's people that fit the culture.
I don't mean they have to agreeon everything.
We don't want everyone justbeing, yes, people.
We want new, fresh ideas,people being hungry to make
(09:06):
their work and help ourstakeholders forge forward.
But there's a culture andpeople have to be really
omnipresent, I think, inensuring that the culture that
people they bring into theirculture are people that help,
that flourish and change it inways that are positive.
So making sure that you're notbringing in subversive
personalities or constantcomplainers or people that all
(09:28):
they want to do is think aboutthe downside of things versus
the true, real opportunity thatwe have here.
I often say I will do anythingfor my team.
My responsibility is to theorganization that are
stakeholders, and that includesour team.
But I would fire my mother ifshe weren't doing her job, and
we have to be willing to makehard decisions where they need
(09:51):
to be made and to bring othersalong with the vision of what we
have and what we're trying toaccomplish.
My way, or the highway, is nota winning recipe.
That doesn't mean sometimesyou've got to forge forward like
a steamroller, but you reallydo need to be able to bring
people along and also shareleadership and responsibility,
(10:11):
and I think that's what'shappened in our organization.
That's allowed us to flourish.
And then just one last thing.
It's a little bit of our secretrecipe, but I'll share just a
bit of it here.
The other phrase I hate isdon't sweat the small stuff.
You always have to sweat thesmall stuff.
When people get in a room, likeyou experienced in Denver,
there was very little that wasleft a chance and the experience
(10:34):
that we wanted people to have.
It really comes from puttingthings in place that allow
people to naturally go to theplaces that you hope that they
get to.
And it's little things, littletouches that you probably
wouldn't know if you just look.
But we think about them andthere are things that we want to
make sure that we sweat thesmall stuff, that we consider
(10:55):
the things, because itdifferentiates us from our
colleagues, from our friends andfriendly competitors, that sort
of thing.
You can put the same people inthe same room but a different
event, and it will feeldifferently.
The large portion of ourattendees attend several of
these a year and I'm with you.
There is such a difference atour event than I feel or that
(11:18):
people feel sometimes at others.
Not that they're notwonderfully, or but there's just
something different.
One person said to me atconference this year I have
never been so exhausted and mycup has never been more full as
I'm leaving here, and I thinkthat's really how I feel.
I remember early years I usedto literally fall up in the
(11:38):
fetal position at the end ofconference because I was
exhausted from it, bothphysically and emotionally and
so forth.
I really get a recharge from itnow.
It's just something sowonderful to see the people
connecting and, like you said,you met some of the lids three
blocks away.
So I think those are thingsthat we focus on and that
(12:00):
constant reinvention.
Don't get stuck in the rut,don't let the wheels just spin
in motion and go nowhere.
Justin Reinert (12:07):
Speaking of details, something that stands
out to me.
So, first off, I'm in astereotype, but when I
stereotype around my ownidentity, I'm okay with that.
But, like, seriously, give abunch of gay men a theme party.
I think it was.
The Wednesday night event was adisco theme party and everyone
(12:31):
in costumes and I mean full oncostume, not just something
simple.
Yeah, so you have the detailsdown and that was unlike any
traditional hour long cocktailparty that I've ever attended.
Justin Nelson (12:49):
Well it was.
We've been wanting to do aneighties party forever.
Chance and I had that was sortof the heyday we were growing up
.
That's a lot of memories, a lotof good memories and some not
so great memories.
Maybe we'll talk about them alittle bit later.
But we wanted to do this.
We're like you know what, let'sdo it.
Denver's the right place.
And I thought naively and I'mglad I was surprised I thought
(13:10):
maybe 30% of the people wouldshow up in costume and when I
looked around that room at theend of the night, 80% yeah
probably 90% of the people hadsome eighties garb on and we
historically have kept thatparty open about between 15, 30
minutes later than we usually doon the week.
(13:31):
After it opened, an hour laterthan it was going to go, just
because people were having funand dancing and playing the
eighties music and it was just.
It was such a remarkableexperience, I think, for me
personally.
But as I looked down and sawthis joy on everyone's face, it
really was like, yeah, you knowwhat?
We have something to be proudof.
(13:52):
This is something that peoplebelong to.
Justin Reinert (13:55):
Yeah, and what was that event?
I didn't stay until the closeof the event, but it was that
event that determined that inthe future I will always stay at
the host hotel, because inDenver, to save money, I stayed
with some friends who live inDenver and so I wasn't going to
get crazy that night and neededto drive back out.
And so then I was like, okay,well, I have to stay at the host
(14:18):
hotel from now on becausethere's just too much going on.
Justin Nelson (14:23):
Well, that'll be the rent aside.
There's actually four hosthotels this year, but the main
is rent full in spring.
So there's that one hotel thatfits us all, but the main one's
attached to the conventioncenter, so when registration
goes live, I would book there asquickly as you.
Justin Reinert (14:38):
Yeah, that's amazing.
Well, I'll make sure to keepput a registration link in the
show notes so that people cancheck that out.
That's too intentional andcreating belonging.
Another thing I want to touchon because and I'm making
assumptions here and I think,based on the evolution of kind
of the history that I've seen,these are safe fish assumptions.
(14:59):
I would imagine that in theearly days there was very much a
focus of kind of gay men, gaywomen, but what I experienced in
Denver there were more transbusiness folk that I've seen
ever in one place, which wasjust incredible.
And I know that someorganizations trip over
(15:19):
themselves to really expandscope to the full spectrum of
LGBTQ plus and whatever letterswe want to throw in there.
So I'm curious what you've doneover the years to ensure that
lens stays wide.
Justin Nelson (15:34):
I think two things.
One is never thinking you'vedone enough because you haven't,
and so always looking at waysthat you continue to expand that
tits, that welcome mat.
And we were very intentionalseveral years ago now about
creating programs that targetedTGX, transgender and gender
(15:57):
expansive communities andcommunities of color to let them
know that this was a placewhere they belong.
We looked at actually theimpetus were two things.
One, it was having aconversation at one of our
events and we were very proudabout the trans inclusion that
was happening.
It was minuscule, a fraction ofwhat you saw in Denver, and a
(16:20):
trans woman named you probablymet her at conference.
Ashley came up to me and saidyou need to do more trans work.
I said we absolutely do.
What are you going to do tohelp?
And so we created our trans TGXinitiative with the whole
purpose of identifying andletting trans business owners
(16:42):
know that this was anorganization that cared about
them, their well-being.
We went right after ascholarship program that we do
with Wells Fargo, which helpstrans businesses get membership
in their local affiliate chamberand thereby get certified.
And then we had an experiencewhere we had a black, a business
owner who belongs both to NGLCC, certified to us, also
(17:07):
certified to the NationalMinority Supplier Development
Council and he came to me andLewis Green it was the acting
head of NMSDC at the time and hesaid I don't always feel
comfortable as a black man atNGLCC and I don't always feel
comfortable as a gay man atNMSDC.
And I said that's exactly whatwe don't want you feeling, so
(17:31):
let's be intentional about this.
And so we created ourcommunities of color initiative.
We launched it in Tampa I guessit would have been 2018, 2019.
I don't remember exactly.
And I remember we had invitedevery person of color that had
registered because we do collectdemographic information and had
(17:51):
identified and invited them toour town hall.
And I will tell you that thisis just by being intentional.
I took questions and listened tothe community for what's
supposed to be an hour.
We ended up there, I think two,two and a half hours, I think.
(18:12):
People walked in there.
They were ready to kick someass and we walked out of there
ready to kick some ass together,which was really great.
And those people have become ourchampions in the marketplace in
saying, hey, yeah, this is anorganization you can belong to.
That's, this is somewhere whereyou can be yourself, you can
(18:33):
feel welcome, you can feel heard, and you mentioned something in
the preface to this aboutunderstanding yes, we're gay,
but we're white.
We do have white privilege, wehave male privilege and
utilizing that privilege whereI'm able to be in a room where,
for whatever reason, othersaren't yet.
So I see it as my duty to kickthat door down or to walk
(18:58):
through it as I can and sit atthe table and make sure that I'm
constantly advocating for thattable to be larger and I think
about it as allies, what allieshave done for us.
So I think, even within our ownLGBTQ space, we have to be
allies to the communities ofcolor, allies to trans and
gender expands and allies tothose LGBTQ people with
(19:19):
disabilities, so on and so on,and externally, with those
larger communities.
And that's what happens.
We just said we're going to beintentional about this.
We've created variouseducational programs that
specifically target our Cochiand TGX communities.
We have a cohort of ourAccelerate Executive Leadership
(19:40):
and Scaling Education programthat is only Cochi and TGX
related, and we have, I think,nearly quadrupled the number of
trans businesses, and I'm proudto say that over a quarter of
our certified supply base arebusinesses that are owned by
people of color.
So is it enough?
No, is it better than it was?
(20:02):
Absolutely, and are we going tocontinue to keep working on it?
Yes, we are, and as we bringmore people in, they become more
ambassadors for us in themarketplace, and it really does
become that multiplying effect.
Justin Reinert (20:15):
That's so amazing and those are great
examples of how you've committedto evolution and reinvention.
I love the idea of just notsettling where you're at and the
way that you spoke aboutenrolling others, where Ashley
said to you, hey, you're notdoing enough for trans
(20:36):
individuals, and you said you'reright, and what are you going
to do to help us?
I think it's amazing.
That also speaks to I want tohelp, but we need more than just
me, so come join us.
It's incredible.
So I love the work that you'vedone.
It's incredible, and I don'twant this to be just a
commercial for the NGLCC.
So I want to talk about JustinNelson.
(20:58):
Justin Nelson, I had to say thatyour last name, so we know that
we're not talking about myselfand the third person.
Sure, we can talk about you.
If you'd prefer, let's talkabout Justin Nelson.
I'd love to hear, I want to diginto you kind of beyond NGLCC,
and I know you've dug a bit intothe work of creating, belonging
, the model that I've got in thebook, and I'd love to hear just
(21:19):
some of your experiences, likewhat in your life resonated back
to you in the model.
Justin Nelson (21:26):
Well, I'm going to start with minimizing.
I remember distinctly as aneight-year-old kid or, excuse me
, eighth grade kid in Casper,wyoming, where I grew up walking
down the street and having acarload of what I assumed was
(21:46):
high schoolers drive by and yellout the window hey, are you a
woman?
And I yelled back no.
And they yelled back Well, yousure would walk like one.
And at that moment I realized,well gosh, I gotta butch it up.
(22:08):
I need to minimize who I am.
I don't even fully understandwho I am and I think about that
story.
I don't tell that story a lot,but here I am, 50 years old and
I still remember it like it wasyesterday and that's.
I don't remember it fondly.
(22:28):
I almost wondered where I wouldbe on the spectrum if I'd had
just said like you and went on abit.
It's stupid, but I did.
And so I don't know if it's anydifferent of the person I am
today or not, but I do thinkthat it made me sort of
reinforce the masculine aspectsof who I was, or who I was
(22:50):
supposed to be at the time, andthat's something that's a part
of me and I think thoseexperiences make us who we are
today, and I always hate when wesay, well, it makes you
stronger and blah, blah, blah,but no, it actually makes you
miserable.
Sometimes you need to thinkabout it.
But it also makes you think youknow what I?
I?
They didn't pull over and beatthe snot out of me, so I'm
(23:11):
thankful for that, but itcertainly, I think it almost led
to some of them the reclusivebehavior as well.
I was not, I mean I should.
It's different.
I mean there was a guy.
There was a football player,wrestler, a very popular guy who
was out and about in highschool and dated around and was
(23:32):
a part of everything and but Ialways knew in the back of my
mind who I was and wasn't.
Until I got the opportunity tomove to Washington for an
internship and got my firsttaste of gay life away from home
and away from closed minds,that I realized what the world
(23:54):
was, it could be.
Justin Reinert (23:57):
And where I belong, those moments and it's
interesting when you say it'ssomething that you don't share a
lot.
I think we all have thoselittle, those like really small
moments that actually createdbig meaning for us in our lives,
because that thing, while youdon't talk about that, that that
(24:19):
moment, often it probably popsin your mind or is there kind of
nagging at you Like how are youwalking today?
Justin Nelson (24:29):
Yeah, and I mean I remember I there were other
kids that I assumed were gay inhigh school and I ran with the
in crowd and I made it mypurpose, I guess, at times to
keep them from picking on theother kids.
Well, in my own mind I wasscared to death that someone
(24:50):
would find out about me or thinkthat about me.
But I think there was at leastsome of that.
Justin Reinert (24:55):
Yeah, and in the yeah, in the 80s and 90s, when
we were growing up, like it was,that was there.
Wasn't Will and Grace ontelevision that we could look to
as what success?
I mean and I'm not going tocall that like what success
looks like as gay people, butit's at least.
Justin Nelson (25:13):
Well, that was fire.
The first time we saw ourselvesin primetime.
I think, oh my gosh, we'repeople now like caricatures and
things get a bit annoying.
But I really think at the timeit was groundbreaking and so
much needed, to your point.
I remember as a kid the gaypeople that I had seen were in
the police Academy movies, goingto the blue oyster bar.
(25:35):
They were not portrayed inpositive light, but I remember
Barty Frank when he first cameout, and Dick army, the
political junkie.
So forget me for regressing andgoing on the house floor as the
house leader at Colleen Barty.
You know it's just remarkablehow sometimes bullies don't grow
up and they become the bullywhen they get in positions of
(25:57):
power, although I think a lot ofpeople, as we've seen or have
and continue to push back onthat.
But those are things weremember.
On the belonging side of things, I came out and was working on
the Hill for Wyoming senator.
He was wonderful.
He's since passed, but Iremember going around then.
I was a Christmas party in 1996.
(26:21):
I think it would have been andI had a little too much to drink
and told my roommate at thetime that I was gay and he was
wonderful and I'd been seeingsomeone, and so he and his
girlfriend invited us to dosomething.
It was the first time ever I'dbeen able to do something sort
of publicly with another guy.
And then I decided I was goingto tell everyone.
(26:43):
I wanted to hear from my mouth.
And then I was going to tell myfriend Jennifer, because I knew
she'd tell everybody else.
I'd offered that to this day,but she's very good at getting
messaging out, let's put it thatway.
So I did.
And then I moved in with my thenboyfriend.
Shortly thereafter we broke up.
I didn't know a soul, a gaysoul, other than another guy on
(27:05):
staff, the senator's office.
So I moved into DC.
I was living in Virginia andgot a job one night a week at a
gay bar and then was about tomove.
I'd added I wasn't reallyfulfilled.
I was going to go back west.
I moved all my stuff back.
I was doing health care,lobbying at the time.
I'd left jail and then that onenight a week at the bar, and
(27:27):
then I moved in.
I met this amazing group ofpeople that became friends,
chance being one of them to thisday.
We were all gathered in FortModerdale for my 50th.
We get together for majorevents.
It's the same group of peoplethat I have Not that we don't
have other friends or haven'tmade them, but the same group of
people that have been myfriends since Labor Day 1998.
(27:51):
And that is a group you reallybelong to because they know me.
Before there was an NGLCC, theydon't care about anything that
comes along with it.
There's a genuine wonderfulfeeling for having that kind of
belonging, where they don't care.
They know you, they know yourbackground, they know the
(28:11):
stories that would keep you outof public office today if they
were told that sort of stuff.
So that is really important.
I think in some ways we try tobring that into what we do at
NGLCC.
I mean, the guys and I we had ahouse in Rehoboth Beach,
delaware, every summer and therewere these theme parties that
some of the houses would do.
(28:32):
Well, of course, we dove rightin the deep end on it and it
became this great rivalry overthe summers between this other
house and our house as to whowas going to have the best
backyard theme party.
And so we've been able to carrysome of that experience and the
joy that we saw from peoplethat attended into what we try
to curate for NGLCC and that, Ithink, makes it even more
(28:55):
special and more close to thework that we do, and it's always
like our friends are with us aswe're doing it.
Justin Reinert (29:01):
Yeah, so it was the backyard parties that
inspired the theme parties atNGLCC.
Justin Nelson (29:09):
The hands down, you may see a few recycled for
2024 and beyond over the nextfew years.
Justin Reinert (29:19):
Well, it'll be my first time experiencing it,
so I'll be fine.
And one thing I want to go backand kind of capture there is
there's an interesting in thatstoryline that you've shared.
The pivot was really when youwere able to be yourself, when
you felt comfortable, beingvulnerable, leaning into your
(29:41):
authenticity, that you foundthat group of people where you
had that true belonging andwhere it exists today.
Oh, absolutely so.
It speaks to that, theauthenticity side of the model
that we talk about a lot.
Justin Nelson (29:57):
It's funny.
How will you?
And to be fully transparent, Ithink I used to be off the
charts extrovert.
If there was something going on, I had to be a part of it.
I am much to be part of its age, part of its work, to give a
lot to what we do and it takes alot out of a person.
And so I think the last time Idid the virus breaks.
(30:19):
If you put any trust in that.
I was just a slight introvert.
Now Now I put my extrovert onwhen I get out and we're doing
an advantage or something likethat.
But it's interesting, and soyou just naturally close
yourself off a little bit in aposition like mine.
But I find every time I'mwilling to open up a little bit
(30:40):
or be a little bit vulnerablewith people or with an
experience, I have yet to bedisappointed by what the return
to me is.
So it's about remembering thatwe don't always remember it, but
taking time to think about thegood things that come when you
are authentic and when you openyourself up to that experience.
Justin Reinert (31:00):
Absolutely, and I do think I think as we mature.
I just think we balance outBecause I'm with you.
I used to.
I needed to be at every party,I needed to be at everything
that was going on, and now Istill like to be out and
involved, but I'm also cool,just like chilling on the couch
for a bit.
Justin Nelson (31:20):
Well, my partner's forced me to have a
social life again, so that'sgood.
I met him a little over a yearago, and so he is a very social
person, so we kind of balanceeach other out a little bit.
Justin Reinert (31:33):
That happens, naturally.
I love that.
Well, justin, thank you so muchfor spending some time with me
today and on the CreatingBlowing Podcast.
I just want to make sure, ifpeople want to get in touch with
you and or the NGLCC, what arethe best ways to do that?
Justin Nelson (31:50):
NGLCC is wwwnglccorg.
You can learn about ouraffiliates, about certification,
about conference, everythingthere.
And if you want to reach out tome, you can do that at
JustinNelsonnglccorg.
Justin Reinert (32:09):
Great.
Well, justin, thank you so muchagain and everyone else, join
us again for another episode ofthe Creating Blowing Podcast.
Thanks,
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