July 12, 2023 • 26 mins
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How did the challenges of a tumultuous childhood lead to a journey of healing, finding purpose, and creating a sense of belonging? Join us as we pick back up our conversation with Britt Andreatta about her inspiring story, exploring the power of resilience and overcoming adversity through the comfort of her cats, academic success, and connecting with others who have faced similar struggles.
Discover the fascinating neuroscience behind exclusion and its impact on our well-being, including how even mild exclusion can activate the pain center of the brain and contribute to the opioid epidemic. Britt shares the importance of embracing vulnerability, authenticity, and creating authentic communities of belonging to combat these negative effects. Don't miss this eye-opening and inspiring conversation that delves into the journey of healing and finding purpose, with insights from Britt's own book, Wired to Become.
You can access a free chapter of Britt's new book, Wired to Become, here: https://www.brittandreatta.com/books/wired-to-become/
Find Britt on LinkedIn
You can order your copy of Creating Belonging on Amazon.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Britt Andreatta (00:00):
So, another thing to know about my
background my mom's mentalillness meant that she couldn't
keep a job.
She couldn't keep a job, so shehad borderline personality
disorder, which means that shestruggled a lot to have
successful relationships.
So, we moved every single yearof my childhood.
I never went to the same schooltwice and sometimes I moved in
(00:23):
the middle of a school year.
Sometimes I'd come home fromschool and the house would be
packed and we'd be leaving thatnight and I didn't always know
why.
But I got very good at beingfriendly with people and then
never feeling like I belongedanywhere.
The only sense of belonging Ihad as a child was, honestly,
with my cats.
So, I am still a lifelong catlover.
(00:45):
They were my safe space.
I feel like I was parented bymy cat because they would be the
one that would comfort me andmake me feel safe, and so
wherever we fed, the cat washome.
As I moved to college andstarted leaving that unhealthy
family system and started to seewhat other systems look like.
Honestly, my first place ofbelonging was when I started
(01:11):
doing some of this work aroundanti-racism and I got in with
like the crowd on campus ofstudent leaders and resident
assistants where we wereexploring these ideas.
I actually felt a lot ofkinship with people who'd been
targeted for their identity,because I'd always felt attacked
and unsafe in my childhoodbecause of my mom.
(01:34):
So, there was an understandingof navigating fear and
navigating just being blamed forstuff that's not your fault.
That made me really resonatewith those communities.
But then it was really painfulas I learned that my own
identity caused discomfort andthe way I was raised caused
discomfort.
So, it was eye-opening as I hadto unlearn some stuff and learn
(02:01):
new things that wereeye-opening.
But I would say that was myfirst real place of belonging.
I think then of course we allfind kind of that tribe of
people that get us, and we getthem, and that's the group that
I was on that trip with andwe're still lifelong friends.
And then as a professional, Idefinitely belonged in school.
Living in my head and beingsmart was one of my survival
(02:25):
tactics.
So, I did really good in schoolenvironments.
I knew the rules made sense atschool and if I just followed
the rules I would get goodgrades, very unlike my home
where the rules changedconstantly.
So, I think academic world wasanother place.
I felt very much like Ibelonged, hence why I have three
degrees and made my way throughThat's-.
Justin Reinert (02:47):
It all makes sense.
.
Britt Andreatta (02:51):
I mean, you've .undefined me for a long time,
Justin.
I feel like you're getting thewhole background into why Britt
is the way she is.
Justin Reinert (02:57):
Yeah, yes, I appreciate it.
I appreciate it.
Well, let's transition to youracademic work.
So that was a place that youbelonged and that's then what
really was the foundation ofyour career and has been for a
long time.
And now you've authored fourbooks on the Neuroscience of
(03:18):
Success, and so I would love todig in.
We've done a lot of researchrelated to this topic of
belonging, so I'm curious whatyou could share.
What?
how does it bump up against themodel, the creating belonging
model, that is?
Britt Andreatta (03:36):
Yeah, it doesn't bump up against it.
I think more than anything itreinforces it.
There'd be a couple of thingsI'd wanna share.
One is the brain science ofexclusion and what happens when
we feel excluded.
So there's really profound andconsistent research that even
the neuroscientists were kind ofblown away by, which is they
(03:56):
wanted to study exclusion and sothey put people in an MRI
machine so they could start tounderstand what happens with the
brain when we're being excluded.
So, they created this mildexclusion experience where they
put three or four people in MRImachines and they gave them an
iPad or something like that andthey were playing cyber ball
with each other.
But then it was set up so thateventually you got the ball
(04:18):
stopped being thrown to you, butyou could tell the other three
people were playing, and so theydid that round and around so
that each person got excluded.
I mean mild form of exclusion,right?
So, the brain lit up, but whatblew their minds was that the
part of the brain that lit upwas the pain center, where we
feel physical pain, and so thatled them to do a ton more
(04:40):
studies.
What happens if you're beingexcluded by someone you don't
like?
they had a whole bunch ofAfrican American participants be
excluded by members of the KuKlux Klan, still lit up the pain
center.
They had people who'd recentlybroken up talk about that
journey of feeling rejected, litup the pain center.
So, the research is reallyclear that we experience
(05:04):
exclusion the same way that weexperience being hit
neurologically.
And this makes sense, right.
We are a tribal species.
We are designed for living andworking together, that our
chances of survival were muchgreater when we were in a tribe
and a community.
So, our brain is actuallyconstantly kind of tracking
(05:24):
where we are in the group and ifwe are seeing signs that we're
getting marginalized or pushedto the edges, everything in our
biology is saying get back inwith the crowd because we won't
survive if we're ousted.
What was really fascinating wasthat the researchers who were
studying this said huh, now thatwe have consistent, clear
evidence that it's the paincenter that's getting lit up,
(05:46):
what happens if we give peoplepainkillers?
And they did everything frommild Advil and Tylenol to heavy
duty OxyContin and itconsistently unhooked that
feeling of rejection.
It unhooked that experience ofexclusion, and I theorize that
(06:08):
this is a big part of what'sdriving the opioid epidemic is
that people are going onpainkillers for legitimate
injuries.
You break your arm, it hurts.
When you take a painkiller, itdoesn't work at the arm, it
works in the brain,disconnecting your sensation of
pain until it wears off and thenit starts to hurt again, you
gotta take another pill.
The problem is, while you're onthat painkiller for your broken
(06:30):
arm, you are getting aninvisible, unspoken break from
the social pain you have in yourlife, where you don't feel like
you fit in with your family orin society or at your job.
So, all of a sudden, you'regetting this invisible
medication and we don't talkabout it.
So then, when people are comingoff of the pain meds because
they're healed, all of a sudden,they're feeling all kinds of
(06:52):
really distressing emotions, andso I think there's a real
connection we need to look atthere.
So that's one piece of datathat I would highlight.
What are your thoughts aboutthat?
How does that resonate for you?
Justin Reinert (07:03):
Yeah, I mean one of the things that it was
making me think about, and I'mfamiliar with that research from
our work together, one thingthat is just popping up in my
head now is that we see more,you know, abuse, drug abuse,
addiction in marginalizedcommunities.
Britt Andreatta (07:23):
Yup.
Justin Reinert (07:24):
And so, it makes sense, right, like that's
what's happening there.
It's, you know, it is thatsocietal exclusion, the
marginalization that then iscausing individuals to become
addicted to you know any arrayof things.
So that's, yeah, that's thewhat's popping up in my head now
(07:46):
.
Britt Andreatta (07:47):
Yeah Well, the research on exclusion is really
clear.
Like your productivity goesdown, your sleep goes down, you
start to have, you start tostruggle with your performance,
you actually get sick more andthen, because those feelings are
so uncomfortable, there's areal, there's a real connection
with self-medicating with drugsand alcohol.
Right?
So, that can lead to addictionand also a cycle of shame around
(08:09):
that and then, over time,people you know, increased
depression, increased anxietyand then much higher likelihoods
of suicide.
So, the data is super clear onit and that's why, you know, I
think we all need to be focusedon how do we create authentic
communities of belonging wherepeople can show up and be
honored and respected for whothey are.
(08:31):
You don't have to be liked, youdon't even have to be popular,
it's just, you know, we letpeople be and then, they can
find their own pockets ofbelonging.
Everything that's happeningright now with just targeting
communities and banning ideasand regulating people's freedoms
.
It's just, you know, it's alast-ditch effort to try to
(08:51):
control this thing that'salready happening.
We're becoming a more tolerantand welcoming society, but some
of the people are real freakedout by that.
So, there it's a last gasp ofsome really desperate measures
to try to control that.
Unfortunately, those measuresare doing a lot of harm to
people.
Justin Reinert (09:09):
Yes, yes.
Britt Andreatta (09:13):
The other thing I'd want to add is and the new
book is out it's on purpose,it's the wire to become the
brain science of finding yourpurpose, creating meaningful
work and achieving yourpotential.
But what was really interestingis that when people have a
sense of purpose in their life,it tends to make them much more
comfortable with diversity Andthey're much more accepting of
(09:36):
others.
And I think it's because ifyou're feeling fulfilled and you
know you're on path in your ownlife, you just don't care
what's happening in otherpeople's lives.
It's not threatening to youbecause you know you're doing
your own thing.
So, I think we want to focus onhelping everyone feel like they
belong and have fulfillinglives and are on purpose,
(09:56):
because if folks have that,they're going to be less
concerned with trying to goafter other people.
The second part of the researchthat's really interesting is
when you're a marginalizedcommunity and you're on the
receiving ends of stereotypes.
So there's this whole body ofresearch called the stereotype
threat, which means when youknow you're stereotyped in a
(10:16):
negative way, it impacts you.
You go into a room and you'remore nervous because you know
people are seeing you in thatnegative light and so
performance tends to go down,anxiety tends to go up.
People experience things as aresult of being on the receiving
end of negative stereotypes,but when they are reminded or
supported and focusing on theirown sense of purpose, it
(10:39):
diminishes the impact of theharm.
So, it creates a little bit ofa shield to diminish the impact
of the harm.
So, we need to work on gettingrid of that harm.
But until we do, you know,places where we feel connected
and where we belong, as well aswhen we have a sense of purpose,
can help us navigate thosereally difficult situations.
(11:02):
So, I think that's reallypowerful too.
Justin Reinert (11:04):
I love that, okay.
So on the first part that youwere talking about, where, when
we have a sense of purpose, ourtolerance for diversity improves
, yep, okay.
So, something was hitting meand I'm curious if there's any
relationship that you've seen.
So, I know in your work youtalk a lot about we as humans
(11:26):
are wired to do three things inorder survive, belong, become,
and they have to come in thatorder.
Well, I feel like purpose isit's that becoming piece, right,
but when we're there, it thenshepherds in belonging for
others.
I'm just there's, I'm wonderingkind of in your research how
(11:48):
that all kind of came together.
Britt Andreatta (11:51):
Yeah, so.
So two things survive, belongbecome is just kind of a
shortened version of Maslow'shierarchy, right?
Which is you don't have food orwater today.
That is going to be the mostpressing thing, right?
So it's really that you need totend to your immediate survival
needs.
And once you can tend to yourimmediate survival needs, our
(12:12):
next need is to feel like webelong, to have friends, to
connect to a meaningfulcommunity.
And we're not going to go youknow, I'm not going to go hang
out at a bar if I can't, or godo something fun If I don't even
know if I can buy groceriestoday, right?
So, it's just this immediacy ofour survival.
So physical survival first.
Then we need belonging, we needto be part of a community, we
(12:35):
need to be accepted for who weare.
That's also tied to survival,because of that tribal thing
that our chances of survival aregreater when we live with
others, back to kind of our olddays living, you know, living on
the plane, so to speak.
If you were ousted by the tribe, your chances of getting eaten
by the lion were much greaterthan when you were living with
others.
(12:56):
But our deepest need and it'snot like it goes away while
we're struggling with being ableto eat or whatever.
But our deepest need is to, wehunger to learn and grow and
become our best selves.
I think every person wants toachieve their potential,
whatever that looks like, but wecan put that on pause while we
attend to these other thingsthat are more immediate, because
(13:17):
the minute those are somewhatsatisfied, people want to live
fulfilling lives.
So, I think that that's reallythe strongest thread, and then
sometimes we're pulled away fromthat because these other things
become more pressing.
But it's our deepest need tobecome who we're meant to be and
feel like we're living a lifeof purpose, and this is why it's
(13:40):
so up right now.
I mean people hungering formore purpose and meaningful work
is off the charts because weall just lived through a
pandemic that not only put ourmortality and sharp focus, but
it gave us a lot of time toreflect on how we're spending
our time and if we're in theright fit.
And many people got a breakfrom the toxic workplace and
(14:03):
then were real strong like Idon't want to go back there.
That place didn't feel safe, soI'm going to go somewhere else.
The great resignation, all ofthat.
So, I don't think they'reantithetical to each other.
I think they're all related.
It's just we sometimes have tostop our focus on one to attend
to something else.
Justin Reinert (14:24):
Yeah, I know I'm just thinking about can I like
what if I?
I don't know.
I know there are individualsthat you know, when they don't
have community, when they don'thave belonging, then channel
everything into something Youknow, like they become high
achievers in some area in a veryisolated way, and I'm curious
(14:48):
if that is like, is that realpurpose and becoming or like I
don't know, what are yourthoughts on that?
Britt Andreatta (14:56):
Well, I'm laughing because that's me, I
mean.
I definitely, no, it's true.
I mean I definitely took a lotof my pain that I had not yet
faced or even identified andchanneled it into academic
success.
Like, and I realized now, as Istarted doing therapy and I
started digging into some of mywounds, I realized, oh, my mom,
(15:19):
I mean my mom literally wouldsay things to me like she wished
I actually had an abortion.
No one would ever love me.
I was a terrible person andI've forgiven her.
She was mentally ill and didn'tget the support she needs and,
even worse, she was horriblyabused as a child.
She was sexually molested, Mostof her child, by both her
father and her brother.
So that's a very commonborderline personality is a very
(15:42):
common response to that kind oftrauma.
But you know, she did the bestshe could.
She was very unhealthy.
She passed on some of thatunhealthy to me and I had to do
my own work around it.
But, like for me, since I wasgetting all these negative
messages at home, when a teacherwas happy with me and that
world made sense, boy that wasthat was super rewarding.
(16:03):
I'm sure I was getting so muchserotonin and dopamine at school
.
So I just got really good atdoing that right.
This is where I got messagesthat maybe I am a good person,
maybe people do like me, maybe Iam okay.
But as I eventually got enoughof that to counterbalance what
was happening at home and ofcourse I moved away from home
(16:25):
then, as that healing workstarted to find some fullness of
fruition to it, that then freedme up to not be so driven by it
Like before it was probably anunhealthy drive to be accepted
in that environment or to havethat sense of purpose, and now
that I'm feeling more fulfilledand complete and healed, that
(16:48):
drive isn't so intense right.
So now it could be more of achoice.
So I don't think there's anyclear example or clear answer.
I always loved Brene Brown'swork and she herself talked
about her own journey toembracing her own vulnerability
and authenticity.
I think we're all on a journeyof that, right?
(17:08):
We all have things that we weretaught as children.
You don't get to adulthoodwithout some scars and some
wounds.
Those scars and wounds justlook different for each of us,
but we share that journey.
And then we all engage inbehaviors to try to heal
ourselves, and some of that'snot very conscious, and
addiction is also an attempt toheal yourself in a different way
(17:31):
.
Justin Reinert (17:33):
You gave me the answer I was looking for, though
I am to please, justin,literally, I am to please.
Yeah, right.
So no, you mentioned one thing,and it was, you know, in school
you would go and you would dogood work and then you would get
praise.
And I'm assuming that fulfilledthat belonging need, like, oh,
(17:58):
these are people that think Imatter, right, yeah, and that
becomes a you know a virtuouscycle, almost right?
Where, oh, I'm gettingvalidation.
And maybe that's where thatcomes from, where we see those
people that may have one area oftheir life that is, they don't
(18:19):
have belonging, they don't feelcomfortable, they find the path
that gives them validation andreward, and so they do go up
that survival and become path,but it's like a little jumbly
and then it does work in order.
Britt Andreatta (18:35):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean I used to say aboutmyself that I was someone who
loved school so much I neverleft.
I mean, i did school and then Idid undergrad, and then I did
masters, and then I did a PhD,and then I worked at a
university as a faculty memberand as a dean for 20 years.
I mean I stayed at that verysafe world for a long time, but
I, you know, when I finally wasready to leave, it was because I
(18:57):
was finally healed and I, youknow, I could move on.
And also, I did a lot of work.
What was interesting is, when Iwas in that world, all of my
work focused on helping youngadults transition into becoming
their full selves.
And so, I built freshmanexperience courses, I built
leadership programs, but it allhad a tone of how do we help you
(19:17):
on your journey ofindividuating and healing and
becoming who you want to be?
So even then, I was healingmyself through the work I was
doing with others.
Right, it's just, I think it'sjust fascinating that we hunger
for that in conscious andunconscious ways.
But that doesn't mean that thework that we're doing in that
space is a wrong choice.
(19:38):
In fact, it can be superbeneficial to others.
Justin Reinert (19:41):
Well, I mean.
So, what a great moment to youknow you recently released The
Wire to Become Book aboutpurpose and you know, I think
you can point back to so manyareas of your life that were on
purpose for various reasons.
So, what a fun, a fun book tohave in your library.
Britt Andreatta (20:08):
Yeah, for those of you who are interested in
reading it, it's both acombination of the research on
what we know about purpose andwhat it means to us
neurologically, but it's alsovery much like a live journaling
exercise.
It's intended to give peopletools and strategies and
exercises to do to get moreclear about their own sense of
purpose.
We don't just have one purposeand that's it.
(20:29):
It's a journey of a lifetimeand it's a journey of
experiences that influence andshape the next part of the
journey.
I'm part way through my journey.
I feel like I'm in a good placeand my journey will continue,
and other people are reflectingon where they are in theirs.
I think it's a really good bookfor the times we are living in
(20:52):
right now.
I also want to say that some ofthe behavior I feel compelled
to say this, when I look atwhat's happening in the world
and we're seeing some of theactions of people that are
creating an environment that'svery harmful for others,
they're finding belonging inthat.
People who identify a certainway politically or identify a
(21:14):
certain way philosophically orwith their religious values.
They're also on their ownjourney to finding a sense of
belonging and meaning, butsomehow theirs is defined by
taking it away from others.
I think we need to be mindfulof the fact that there's a
journey of well, even all thethings we've been talking about,
the messages one is raised with, how it's defined for you to be
(21:39):
a good person or a right person, and then the kinds of
communities you end up beingpart of and what those
communities are telling you orthe way to behave.
Belonging is a powerful thingand people who offer belonging
through the act of harmingothers.
That's what extremist groupsengage in.
They look for people who don'tfeel like they belong and they
(22:01):
offer belonging, and then theact of belonging is often the
act of harming others.
I write about this in the Wiredto Connect book and I think
where we get in trouble is if wekeep engaging in judging each
other, we somehow don't get atthe core issue that really needs
to be resolved, which is folksneed to feel respected and that
(22:22):
there's a place for them.
I hope that made sense, but Ithink it's important to talk
about that, because we can keepmaking people bad and wrong and
then they don't have a path back.
Justin Reinert (22:33):
Yes, I've been on that journey for the past two
years and really working ongiving grace to those
individuals in a way of like,okay, I understand that there is
something that is pulling youinto this and some biological
need that's probably shiftingyou in this direction of harming
(22:56):
others.
Not that I want to bepermissive of that, but I think,
when we can approach thoseindividuals more humanely, that
we have a better way ofconnecting with them and
bringing them back to being ableto respect everyone and give
everyone space, because there'sroom for us.
Britt Andreatta (23:18):
Yes, there is room for everyone.
And I think we just need tokeep looking at that.
How do we create space foreveryone?
not that there's one way versusanother or one side's going to
dominate another.
Justin Reinert (23:33):
Britt, thank you so much for being a guest on
the podcast.
I loved it so much.
Maybe we'll start another one.
I don't know, we'll see.
But just I wanna give you amoment to plug anything that you
wanna plug.
Obviously, the book Wired toBecome where can people find it?
or anything else that you wannashare.
Britt Andreatta (23:55):
Yeah, great, so thank you.
I've got four books ondifferent topics.
One's on how the brain learns,one is how we move through
change, one is the wholeconnection of belonging
exclusion piece, and then thelast one, which just came out,
is the one on becoming andpurpose, and all of that.
You can find my books whereverbooks are sold, so look there.
(24:15):
You can also go to my website,which is just my name,
brittandreatta.
com.
I love to connect with peopleon LinkedIn and then, if you are
in a position of rolling outtraining or leadership
development in your organization, I create science-based
training solutions that have allof these principles and
practices woven into thetraining, and we've seen
(24:37):
organizations have amazingresults using brain science
approach to training.
So those are all the ways folkscan kind of see what I'm up to,
and I love the idea of apodcast, Justin, let's talk more
about that.
Justin Reinert (24:51):
All right, let's do it Well, Britt.
Thank you so much.
Britt is the final kind of likeregular guest on this season,
and so in one week, I believe,we will be doing a LinkedIn live
where I will have a handful ofpast guests from this season
(25:15):
just to talk about ourexperiences, our conversations,
bring everyone together, andthen that LinkedIn live will
become the final episode of thisseason of the Creating Billing
and Podcast.
So, thank you all for tuning in, Britt.
Thank you for joining me todayand hope to see you all soon.
Britt Andreatta (25:33):
Thank you, Justin.
I love this podcast.
I'm so glad you've been doingit.
Justin Reinert (25:37):
Thank you.
So, another thing to know about my
background my mom's mentalillness meant that she couldn't
keep a job.
She couldn't keep a job, so shehad borderline personality
disorder, which means that shestruggled a lot to have
successful relationships.
So, we moved every single yearof my childhood.
I never went to the same schooltwice and sometimes I moved in
(00:23):
the middle of a school year.
Sometimes I'd come home fromschool and the house would be
packed and we'd be leaving thatnight and I didn't always know
why.
But I got very good at beingfriendly with people and then
never feeling like I belongedanywhere.
The only sense of belonging Ihad as a child was, honestly,
with my cats.
So, I am still a lifelong catlover.
(00:45):
They were my safe space.
I feel like I was parented bymy cat because they would be the
one that would comfort me andmake me feel safe, and so
wherever we fed, the cat washome.
As I moved to college andstarted leaving that unhealthy
family system and started to seewhat other systems look like.
Honestly, my first place ofbelonging was when I started
(01:11):
doing some of this work aroundanti-racism and I got in with
like the crowd on campus ofstudent leaders and resident
assistants where we wereexploring these ideas.
I actually felt a lot ofkinship with people who'd been
targeted for their identity,because I'd always felt attacked
and unsafe in my childhoodbecause of my mom.
(01:34):
So, there was an understandingof navigating fear and
navigating just being blamed forstuff that's not your fault.
That made me really resonatewith those communities.
But then it was really painfulas I learned that my own
identity caused discomfort andthe way I was raised caused
discomfort.
So, it was eye-opening as I hadto unlearn some stuff and learn
(02:01):
new things that wereeye-opening.
But I would say that was myfirst real place of belonging.
I think then of course we allfind kind of that tribe of
people that get us, and we getthem, and that's the group that
I was on that trip with andwe're still lifelong friends.
And then as a professional, Idefinitely belonged in school.
Living in my head and beingsmart was one of my survival
(02:25):
tactics.
So, I did really good in schoolenvironments.
I knew the rules made sense atschool and if I just followed
the rules I would get goodgrades, very unlike my home
where the rules changedconstantly.
So, I think academic world wasanother place.
I felt very much like Ibelonged, hence why I have three
degrees and made my way throughThat's-.
Justin Reinert (02:47):
It all makes sense.
.
Britt Andreatta (02:51):
I mean, you've .undefined me for a long time,
Justin.
I feel like you're getting thewhole background into why Britt
is the way she is.
Justin Reinert (02:57):
Yeah, yes, I appreciate it.
I appreciate it.
Well, let's transition to youracademic work.
So that was a place that youbelonged and that's then what
really was the foundation ofyour career and has been for a
long time.
And now you've authored fourbooks on the Neuroscience of
(03:18):
Success, and so I would love todig in.
We've done a lot of researchrelated to this topic of
belonging, so I'm curious whatyou could share.
What?
how does it bump up against themodel, the creating belonging
model, that is?
Britt Andreatta (03:36):
Yeah, it doesn't bump up against it.
I think more than anything itreinforces it.
There'd be a couple of thingsI'd wanna share.
One is the brain science ofexclusion and what happens when
we feel excluded.
So there's really profound andconsistent research that even
the neuroscientists were kind ofblown away by, which is they
(03:56):
wanted to study exclusion and sothey put people in an MRI
machine so they could start tounderstand what happens with the
brain when we're being excluded.
So, they created this mildexclusion experience where they
put three or four people in MRImachines and they gave them an
iPad or something like that andthey were playing cyber ball
with each other.
But then it was set up so thateventually you got the ball
(04:18):
stopped being thrown to you, butyou could tell the other three
people were playing, and so theydid that round and around so
that each person got excluded.
I mean mild form of exclusion,right?
So, the brain lit up, but whatblew their minds was that the
part of the brain that lit upwas the pain center, where we
feel physical pain, and so thatled them to do a ton more
(04:40):
studies.
What happens if you're beingexcluded by someone you don't
like?
they had a whole bunch ofAfrican American participants be
excluded by members of the KuKlux Klan, still lit up the pain
center.
They had people who'd recentlybroken up talk about that
journey of feeling rejected, litup the pain center.
So, the research is reallyclear that we experience
(05:04):
exclusion the same way that weexperience being hit
neurologically.
And this makes sense, right.
We are a tribal species.
We are designed for living andworking together, that our
chances of survival were muchgreater when we were in a tribe
and a community.
So, our brain is actuallyconstantly kind of tracking
(05:24):
where we are in the group and ifwe are seeing signs that we're
getting marginalized or pushedto the edges, everything in our
biology is saying get back inwith the crowd because we won't
survive if we're ousted.
What was really fascinating wasthat the researchers who were
studying this said huh, now thatwe have consistent, clear
evidence that it's the paincenter that's getting lit up,
(05:46):
what happens if we give peoplepainkillers?
And they did everything frommild Advil and Tylenol to heavy
duty OxyContin and itconsistently unhooked that
feeling of rejection.
It unhooked that experience ofexclusion, and I theorize that
(06:08):
this is a big part of what'sdriving the opioid epidemic is
that people are going onpainkillers for legitimate
injuries.
You break your arm, it hurts.
When you take a painkiller, itdoesn't work at the arm, it
works in the brain,disconnecting your sensation of
pain until it wears off and thenit starts to hurt again, you
gotta take another pill.
The problem is, while you're onthat painkiller for your broken
(06:30):
arm, you are getting aninvisible, unspoken break from
the social pain you have in yourlife, where you don't feel like
you fit in with your family orin society or at your job.
So, all of a sudden, you'regetting this invisible
medication and we don't talkabout it.
So then, when people are comingoff of the pain meds because
they're healed, all of a sudden,they're feeling all kinds of
(06:52):
really distressing emotions, andso I think there's a real
connection we need to look atthere.
So that's one piece of datathat I would highlight.
What are your thoughts aboutthat?
How does that resonate for you?
Justin Reinert (07:03):
Yeah, I mean one of the things that it was
making me think about, and I'mfamiliar with that research from
our work together, one thingthat is just popping up in my
head now is that we see more,you know, abuse, drug abuse,
addiction in marginalizedcommunities.
Britt Andreatta (07:23):
Yup.
Justin Reinert (07:24):
And so, it makes sense, right, like that's
what's happening there.
It's, you know, it is thatsocietal exclusion, the
marginalization that then iscausing individuals to become
addicted to you know any arrayof things.
So that's, yeah, that's thewhat's popping up in my head now
(07:46):
.
Britt Andreatta (07:47):
Yeah Well, the research on exclusion is really
clear.
Like your productivity goesdown, your sleep goes down, you
start to have, you start tostruggle with your performance,
you actually get sick more andthen, because those feelings are
so uncomfortable, there's areal, there's a real connection
with self-medicating with drugsand alcohol.
Right?
So, that can lead to addictionand also a cycle of shame around
(08:09):
that and then, over time,people you know, increased
depression, increased anxietyand then much higher likelihoods
of suicide.
So, the data is super clear onit and that's why, you know, I
think we all need to be focusedon how do we create authentic
communities of belonging wherepeople can show up and be
honored and respected for whothey are.
(08:31):
You don't have to be liked, youdon't even have to be popular,
it's just, you know, we letpeople be and then, they can
find their own pockets ofbelonging.
Everything that's happeningright now with just targeting
communities and banning ideasand regulating people's freedoms
.
It's just, you know, it's alast-ditch effort to try to
(08:51):
control this thing that'salready happening.
We're becoming a more tolerantand welcoming society, but some
of the people are real freakedout by that.
So, there it's a last gasp ofsome really desperate measures
to try to control that.
Unfortunately, those measuresare doing a lot of harm to
people.
Justin Reinert (09:09):
Yes, yes.
Britt Andreatta (09:13):
The other thing I'd want to add is and the new
book is out it's on purpose,it's the wire to become the
brain science of finding yourpurpose, creating meaningful
work and achieving yourpotential.
But what was really interestingis that when people have a
sense of purpose in their life,it tends to make them much more
comfortable with diversity Andthey're much more accepting of
(09:36):
others.
And I think it's because ifyou're feeling fulfilled and you
know you're on path in your ownlife, you just don't care
what's happening in otherpeople's lives.
It's not threatening to youbecause you know you're doing
your own thing.
So, I think we want to focus onhelping everyone feel like they
belong and have fulfillinglives and are on purpose,
(09:56):
because if folks have that,they're going to be less
concerned with trying to goafter other people.
The second part of the researchthat's really interesting is
when you're a marginalizedcommunity and you're on the
receiving ends of stereotypes.
So there's this whole body ofresearch called the stereotype
threat, which means when youknow you're stereotyped in a
(10:16):
negative way, it impacts you.
You go into a room and you'remore nervous because you know
people are seeing you in thatnegative light and so
performance tends to go down,anxiety tends to go up.
People experience things as aresult of being on the receiving
end of negative stereotypes,but when they are reminded or
supported and focusing on theirown sense of purpose, it
(10:39):
diminishes the impact of theharm.
So, it creates a little bit ofa shield to diminish the impact
of the harm.
So, we need to work on gettingrid of that harm.
But until we do, you know,places where we feel connected
and where we belong, as well aswhen we have a sense of purpose,
can help us navigate thosereally difficult situations.
(11:02):
So, I think that's reallypowerful too.
Justin Reinert (11:04):
I love that, okay.
So on the first part that youwere talking about, where, when
we have a sense of purpose, ourtolerance for diversity improves
, yep, okay.
So, something was hitting meand I'm curious if there's any
relationship that you've seen.
So, I know in your work youtalk a lot about we as humans
(11:26):
are wired to do three things inorder survive, belong, become,
and they have to come in thatorder.
Well, I feel like purpose isit's that becoming piece, right,
but when we're there, it thenshepherds in belonging for
others.
I'm just there's, I'm wonderingkind of in your research how
(11:48):
that all kind of came together.
Britt Andreatta (11:51):
Yeah, so.
So two things survive, belongbecome is just kind of a
shortened version of Maslow'shierarchy, right?
Which is you don't have food orwater today.
That is going to be the mostpressing thing, right?
So it's really that you need totend to your immediate survival
needs.
And once you can tend to yourimmediate survival needs, our
(12:12):
next need is to feel like webelong, to have friends, to
connect to a meaningfulcommunity.
And we're not going to go youknow, I'm not going to go hang
out at a bar if I can't, or godo something fun If I don't even
know if I can buy groceriestoday, right?
So, it's just this immediacy ofour survival.
So physical survival first.
Then we need belonging, we needto be part of a community, we
(12:35):
need to be accepted for who weare.
That's also tied to survival,because of that tribal thing
that our chances of survival aregreater when we live with
others, back to kind of our olddays living, you know, living on
the plane, so to speak.
If you were ousted by the tribe, your chances of getting eaten
by the lion were much greaterthan when you were living with
others.
(12:56):
But our deepest need and it'snot like it goes away while
we're struggling with being ableto eat or whatever.
But our deepest need is to, wehunger to learn and grow and
become our best selves.
I think every person wants toachieve their potential,
whatever that looks like, but wecan put that on pause while we
attend to these other thingsthat are more immediate, because
(13:17):
the minute those are somewhatsatisfied, people want to live
fulfilling lives.
So, I think that that's reallythe strongest thread, and then
sometimes we're pulled away fromthat because these other things
become more pressing.
But it's our deepest need tobecome who we're meant to be and
feel like we're living a lifeof purpose, and this is why it's
(13:40):
so up right now.
I mean people hungering formore purpose and meaningful work
is off the charts because weall just lived through a
pandemic that not only put ourmortality and sharp focus, but
it gave us a lot of time toreflect on how we're spending
our time and if we're in theright fit.
And many people got a breakfrom the toxic workplace and
(14:03):
then were real strong like Idon't want to go back there.
That place didn't feel safe, soI'm going to go somewhere else.
The great resignation, all ofthat.
So, I don't think they'reantithetical to each other.
I think they're all related.
It's just we sometimes have tostop our focus on one to attend
to something else.
Justin Reinert (14:24):
Yeah, I know I'm just thinking about can I like
what if I?
I don't know.
I know there are individualsthat you know, when they don't
have community, when they don'thave belonging, then channel
everything into something Youknow, like they become high
achievers in some area in a veryisolated way, and I'm curious
(14:48):
if that is like, is that realpurpose and becoming or like I
don't know, what are yourthoughts on that?
Britt Andreatta (14:56):
Well, I'm laughing because that's me, I
mean.
I definitely, no, it's true.
I mean I definitely took a lotof my pain that I had not yet
faced or even identified andchanneled it into academic
success.
Like, and I realized now, as Istarted doing therapy and I
started digging into some of mywounds, I realized, oh, my mom,
(15:19):
I mean my mom literally wouldsay things to me like she wished
I actually had an abortion.
No one would ever love me.
I was a terrible person andI've forgiven her.
She was mentally ill and didn'tget the support she needs and,
even worse, she was horriblyabused as a child.
She was sexually molested, Mostof her child, by both her
father and her brother.
So that's a very commonborderline personality is a very
(15:42):
common response to that kind oftrauma.
But you know, she did the bestshe could.
She was very unhealthy.
She passed on some of thatunhealthy to me and I had to do
my own work around it.
But, like for me, since I wasgetting all these negative
messages at home, when a teacherwas happy with me and that
world made sense, boy that wasthat was super rewarding.
(16:03):
I'm sure I was getting so muchserotonin and dopamine at school
.
So I just got really good atdoing that right.
This is where I got messagesthat maybe I am a good person,
maybe people do like me, maybe Iam okay.
But as I eventually got enoughof that to counterbalance what
was happening at home and ofcourse I moved away from home
(16:25):
then, as that healing workstarted to find some fullness of
fruition to it, that then freedme up to not be so driven by it
Like before it was probably anunhealthy drive to be accepted
in that environment or to havethat sense of purpose, and now
that I'm feeling more fulfilledand complete and healed, that
(16:48):
drive isn't so intense right.
So now it could be more of achoice.
So I don't think there's anyclear example or clear answer.
I always loved Brene Brown'swork and she herself talked
about her own journey toembracing her own vulnerability
and authenticity.
I think we're all on a journeyof that, right?
(17:08):
We all have things that we weretaught as children.
You don't get to adulthoodwithout some scars and some
wounds.
Those scars and wounds justlook different for each of us,
but we share that journey.
And then we all engage inbehaviors to try to heal
ourselves, and some of that'snot very conscious, and
addiction is also an attempt toheal yourself in a different way
(17:31):
.
Justin Reinert (17:33):
You gave me the answer I was looking for, though
I am to please, justin,literally, I am to please.
Yeah, right.
So no, you mentioned one thing,and it was, you know, in school
you would go and you would dogood work and then you would get
praise.
And I'm assuming that fulfilledthat belonging need, like, oh,
(17:58):
these are people that think Imatter, right, yeah, and that
becomes a you know a virtuouscycle, almost right?
Where, oh, I'm gettingvalidation.
And maybe that's where thatcomes from, where we see those
people that may have one area oftheir life that is, they don't
(18:19):
have belonging, they don't feelcomfortable, they find the path
that gives them validation andreward, and so they do go up
that survival and become path,but it's like a little jumbly
and then it does work in order.
Britt Andreatta (18:35):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean I used to say aboutmyself that I was someone who
loved school so much I neverleft.
I mean, i did school and then Idid undergrad, and then I did
masters, and then I did a PhD,and then I worked at a
university as a faculty memberand as a dean for 20 years.
I mean I stayed at that verysafe world for a long time, but
I, you know, when I finally wasready to leave, it was because I
(18:57):
was finally healed and I, youknow, I could move on.
And also, I did a lot of work.
What was interesting is, when Iwas in that world, all of my
work focused on helping youngadults transition into becoming
their full selves.
And so, I built freshmanexperience courses, I built
leadership programs, but it allhad a tone of how do we help you
(19:17):
on your journey ofindividuating and healing and
becoming who you want to be?
So even then, I was healingmyself through the work I was
doing with others.
Right, it's just, I think it'sjust fascinating that we hunger
for that in conscious andunconscious ways.
But that doesn't mean that thework that we're doing in that
space is a wrong choice.
(19:38):
In fact, it can be superbeneficial to others.
Justin Reinert (19:41):
Well, I mean.
So, what a great moment to youknow you recently released The
Wire to Become Book aboutpurpose and you know, I think
you can point back to so manyareas of your life that were on
purpose for various reasons.
So, what a fun, a fun book tohave in your library.
Britt Andreatta (20:08):
Yeah, for those of you who are interested in
reading it, it's both acombination of the research on
what we know about purpose andwhat it means to us
neurologically, but it's alsovery much like a live journaling
exercise.
It's intended to give peopletools and strategies and
exercises to do to get moreclear about their own sense of
purpose.
We don't just have one purposeand that's it.
(20:29):
It's a journey of a lifetimeand it's a journey of
experiences that influence andshape the next part of the
journey.
I'm part way through my journey.
I feel like I'm in a good placeand my journey will continue,
and other people are reflectingon where they are in theirs.
I think it's a really good bookfor the times we are living in
(20:52):
right now.
I also want to say that some ofthe behavior I feel compelled
to say this, when I look atwhat's happening in the world
and we're seeing some of theactions of people that are
creating an environment that'svery harmful for others,
they're finding belonging inthat.
People who identify a certainway politically or identify a
(21:14):
certain way philosophically orwith their religious values.
They're also on their ownjourney to finding a sense of
belonging and meaning, butsomehow theirs is defined by
taking it away from others.
I think we need to be mindfulof the fact that there's a
journey of well, even all thethings we've been talking about,
the messages one is raised with, how it's defined for you to be
(21:39):
a good person or a right person, and then the kinds of
communities you end up beingpart of and what those
communities are telling you orthe way to behave.
Belonging is a powerful thingand people who offer belonging
through the act of harmingothers.
That's what extremist groupsengage in.
They look for people who don'tfeel like they belong and they
(22:01):
offer belonging, and then theact of belonging is often the
act of harming others.
I write about this in the Wiredto Connect book and I think
where we get in trouble is if wekeep engaging in judging each
other, we somehow don't get atthe core issue that really needs
to be resolved, which is folksneed to feel respected and that
(22:22):
there's a place for them.
I hope that made sense, but Ithink it's important to talk
about that, because we can keepmaking people bad and wrong and
then they don't have a path back.
Justin Reinert (22:33):
Yes, I've been on that journey for the past two
years and really working ongiving grace to those
individuals in a way of like,okay, I understand that there is
something that is pulling youinto this and some biological
need that's probably shiftingyou in this direction of harming
(22:56):
others.
Not that I want to bepermissive of that, but I think,
when we can approach thoseindividuals more humanely, that
we have a better way ofconnecting with them and
bringing them back to being ableto respect everyone and give
everyone space, because there'sroom for us.
Britt Andreatta (23:18):
Yes, there is room for everyone.
And I think we just need tokeep looking at that.
How do we create space foreveryone?
not that there's one way versusanother or one side's going to
dominate another.
Justin Reinert (23:33):
Britt, thank you so much for being a guest on
the podcast.
I loved it so much.
Maybe we'll start another one.
I don't know, we'll see.
But just I wanna give you amoment to plug anything that you
wanna plug.
Obviously, the book Wired toBecome where can people find it?
or anything else that you wannashare.
Britt Andreatta (23:55):
Yeah, great, so thank you.
I've got four books ondifferent topics.
One's on how the brain learns,one is how we move through
change, one is the wholeconnection of belonging
exclusion piece, and then thelast one, which just came out,
is the one on becoming andpurpose, and all of that.
You can find my books whereverbooks are sold, so look there.
(24:15):
You can also go to my website,which is just my name,
brittandreatta.
com.
I love to connect with peopleon LinkedIn and then, if you are
in a position of rolling outtraining or leadership
development in your organization, I create science-based
training solutions that have allof these principles and
practices woven into thetraining, and we've seen
(24:37):
organizations have amazingresults using brain science
approach to training.
So those are all the ways folkscan kind of see what I'm up to,
and I love the idea of apodcast, Justin, let's talk more
about that.
Justin Reinert (24:51):
All right, let's do it Well, Britt.
Thank you so much.
Britt is the final kind of likeregular guest on this season,
and so in one week, I believe,we will be doing a LinkedIn live
where I will have a handful ofpast guests from this season
(25:15):
just to talk about ourexperiences, our conversations,
bring everyone together, andthen that LinkedIn live will
become the final episode of thisseason of the Creating Billing
and Podcast.
So, thank you all for tuning in, Britt.
Thank you for joining me todayand hope to see you all soon.
Britt Andreatta (25:33):
Thank you, Justin.
I love this podcast.
I'm so glad you've been doingit.
Justin Reinert (25:37):
Thank you.
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