Episode Transcript
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Jill (00:01):
Welcome to the Crossing
Voices from The Lighthouse.
In today's episode we sit downwith the Rev Melissa Hall and
the Rev Audrey Hasselbrook of StJames Episcopal Church in Upper
Montclair, two faith leaderswhose hearts and parish have
become deeply intertwined withthe ministry of The Lighthouse.
This is a conversation abouthow a chance hallway encounter
(00:23):
turned into a sacred partnership, about what happens when a
church doesn't just talk aboutthe gospel but lives it.
You'll hear how youth groupservice turned into friendship,
how parishioners moved fromideas to action, and how faith
is challenged, stretched andmade real not in grand gestures
but in daily acts of love andcourage.
(00:45):
Good morning, reverend Audreyand Reverend Melissa from St
James, upper Montclair.
It's so great to have you heretoday Morning.
Melissa (00:56):
Jill, Thank you for
inviting us.
Jill (00:58):
I'd love to start just by
jumping in and asking you to
tell the story about how youfirst became involved with The
Lighthouse.
How did that partnership begin?
Melissa (01:10):
I think, as in
everything, god's put you where
you need to be.
Actually, you and I one day raninto each other in the hallway.
You and I had known each otherfor a long time and you were on
the phone phone and I rememberlistening to you and this you
had that worry dent that you getwhen things are.
And I was watching you on thephone and I says everything okay
(01:31):
.
And you said, no, we have afamily that needs to get here.
I believe they were inCalifornia at the time and I
can't get them here.
And I'm, and I'm really besidebeside myself and I could tell
and I said, well, okay, well,how much does that cost?
And I don't know what.
The number was $300, whateverit was.
(01:51):
I said, okay, we'll help youwith that.
And you just stopped and youlooked at me as if I was playing
with you and I said, no, no,that's okay.
And you said that's wonderful.
And we made sure that the moneythat you needed was there and
then you kind of wandered off.
You know that this was okayhere's a minute for us to do
something, but now there's otherthings to get done.
(02:12):
But you circled around withthat family who appeared not
only as a husband and wife, butwith a baby, beautiful baby, and
we had taken them up into thethrift store to help clothe them
.
I remember the husband sayingto you, jill, I want to say
something in Spanish and lookingat Audrey and I and saying I
(02:33):
was so grateful for everythingyou've done.
And then it was like, okay, nowwe get it, that's it, that's
the ministry.
There are the people andshowing us their baby, and that
was it.
We were hooked, as we shouldhave been from the very
beginning.
Jill (02:44):
And it's been two years
since then and St James has been
so faithful in the work and thesupport that it's done with The
Lighthouse.
I know you had your youth groupcome out, reverend Audrey.
You asked me can the youthgroup come out and spend a day
doing service at The Lighthouse?
And I said sure, and you and Iplanned a little, something,
(03:05):
something, and there you wereand it turned out to be a
magical day.
Can you tell us a little bitabout it?
Audrey (03:11):
It was our
parliamentarian that first told
me about The lighthouse and shewas so enthusiastic about it.
And then, when you had offeredthat this might be something
that the confirmation classcould do, some real hands-on
ministry, working with people itsounded like something that
would be an experience thatwould help them to understand
the breadth of God's people andthe understanding that there are
(03:35):
many ways for us to be incommunity with one another.
And of course, they startedwith the sort of hands-on we're
going to clean some things,we're going to do some things
but quickly it turned into doingthings together.
And that was really theimportant point of that and how
it changed the hearts.
That experience changed thehearts of some of the adults who
went with us yes, who weren'tquite sure what this was all
(03:59):
about, but they would come.
That's probably why they didcome so they could be there with
their children and then to comeback and that's probably why
they did come so they could bethere with their children and
then to come back and say, waita second, I have things I can do
.
This is how we can help.
This is what we do as people,as beloved children of God.
So it wasn't the I'm the goodperson doing for somebody else.
But I'm going to work withsomebody who has many gifts and
(04:20):
skills just as I have gifts andskills and that we have common
ground together and skills justas I have gifts and skills and
that we have common groundtogether.
Jill (04:25):
You guys have just been
amazing.
I remember when we received aguest from Ghana and we'll just
call him David and David did notknow how to cook a thing, and
here he was now living at TheLighthouse where, you know,
families and individuals kind ofcook for themselves, and David
had to learn how to cook quicklyand you so generously offered
(04:46):
to give him a cooking lesson.
Can you tell us a little bitabout that?
Audrey (04:50):
That was very sweet
Teaching someone adult to how to
cook a very simple meal,knowing that the budget is going
to be limited, like it is formany of us, and we'd made a
chicken stew, I think is what itwas in the end.
And then just, of course, thesmile on the face when you taste
the finished product.
It actually tastes good and Iunderstand that our friend David
(05:11):
is able to cook for himself andhas found his way around the
kitchen, and that's a terrificexperience.
Jill (05:18):
Yes, he sure has, and he
was so proud to make that meal
multiple times and from thatstarted watching YouTube videos
to was so proud to make thatmeal multiple times and from
that started watching YouTubevideos to teach himself how to
make different things and even,you know, some of his own
cultural food.
So he was really thrilled aboutthat.
Melissa (05:35):
The fact that he was
able to make a meal was
wonderful.
But I think for me that storyis about shifting concept for
these young people, our kids,our youth into reality.
He was a person.
For them, he became a person.
The children then instructedthe adults they talked about
(05:57):
their friends, they talked aboutthe children, they talked about
being in the house and theirenthusiasm let's have a
Christmas party for our friends.
That was really.
I mean, he learned how to makea chicken, but what we got out
of that was fill the pot.
We didn't know it was empty.
It was wonderful.
It was a wonderful moment, Ithink, for us.
Jill (06:16):
Speaking from a faith
perspective, how do you think
your parishioners and others whohave entered into relationship
with guests at The Lighthouse,can you talk a little bit about
how you think they've beentransformed and how maybe their
faith has been enriched andexpanded as a result of the
(06:38):
experience?
Melissa (06:39):
Yes, Our experience
with The Lighthouse, our
experience with their legalpresence in this country, our
experience with that beingcompletely turned around, our
experience with their fear, nowtheir isolation.
I think the folks who are okaywith that are now having to take
responsibility for what theyproclaim to be their faith.
(07:01):
God, or Jesus, loves withoutcondition.
That.
We're called to love ourneighbors.
We're called no matter who theyare.
We proclaim that every Sunday.
Sounds nice, but now here's thehard work of doing it.
So I think what's happened isI'm not sure if their faith has
been informed, but their faithis now being challenged and that
(07:23):
, if this is what you proclaim,then you need to take
responsibility for it.
And I think that's the piecefor me is more critical.
Of course, you know we're alwaysaccused of oh, you're preaching
politics.
And my response is well, thegospel Jesus says you love
everyone, you take care ofeveryone, you don't discriminate
, you give everybody dignity andrespect, and that's what the
(07:45):
gospel is.
I'm sorry that is kind ofcounter to your political
viewpoint.
It's gospel, it's not politics.
It's gospel and they have tolive with that and that's what
they're being called to now.
If that's what you believe andyou proclaim that, then you have
to be responsible for that.
You don't get to avert your eyesto where it's comfortable to
see, because everywhere you turn, the question is asked okay,
(08:07):
you say, this is your gospel,how are you living it?
It's everywhere in this church,so you might well, I don't want
to look at that, I don't wantto do that, oh well, okay.
Oh, by the way, look at thepantry on the front lawn.
Or, oh, by the way, look at theAA people who come in every day
to looking for resurrection.
Everywhere you look, your faithis challenged.
(08:28):
And that's what I love aboutthis congregation, and The
Lighthouse has become prominentin that it is a house, it's a
home.
These are friends, these arepeople, and you can look to the
left, but there's more of them,and you look to the right and
they're all there.
You cannot avert your eyes fromwhat the gospel calls us in the
presence of the asylum seekers.
Jill (08:49):
Yeah, st James, I mean, is
such an extraordinary
congregation.
You do so much, between yourthrift store, with all of your
funding going to variousoutreach ministries, to your
little food pantry on the lawn,to your work with The Lighthouse
.
I mean, it just really isextraordinary how much you do.
(09:10):
I'd love you to help me withsomething, because sometimes I
visit churches and they want tohelp, they feel called to help,
and what they say to me is, oh,but we're just a small little
congregation.
They look at their capacity interms of the number of people in
the church and feel I thinksometimes like, oh, but we're
just a small little congregation.
They look at their capacity interms of the number of people in
the church and feel I thinksometimes like, oh, we're not
really a forceful enough entityto do anything.
(09:33):
How would you guide churcheslike that, who might be looking
for ways to support TheLighthouse, for example, but
just don't know where to startor feel like they don't have the
capacity?
Melissa (09:46):
You know, I think Jesus
saying to his disciples the
poor will always be with you issuch a shocking thing to come
out of his mouth, but the beautyof that is what he's, I believe
, for me saying is that therewill always be somebody in need,
always You're not going toeradicate.
As long as human beings aretogether, you will not eradicate
(10:07):
hunger.
You won't eradicate poverty,you won't violence or cruelty,
you won't.
It's the human experience.
However, they'll always be heremeans that there'll always be a
place for you to make adifference for one.
You make a difference for one.
You feed one hungry person.
You might not know who they are, you may never see them again,
(10:30):
but for that moment, for thatday, with that little can of
tuna or that warm coat orwhatever it is that you provided
, or you know teaching someonehow to make a chicken meal for
that one day, dignity, respectthey are seen, they have been
seen, they've been heard andthey've been cared for.
(10:51):
And then they walk away and weknow it happened to our chef.
Okay, he felt seen, heard andcared for.
That's what I think you have toemphasize for the smaller
congregations.
You are not going to eradicatepoverty.
You're not going to feedeverybody.
Feed one person and see what adifference, and take pride and
(11:13):
joy in that, because that's whatJesus calls us to.
He didn't have 55,000 people athis table, he had 12.
Let me start with 12.
Let me see if I can get thesefolks going.
Let me see if I can put an ideain their head.
It's when two or three aregathered in my name, it's not
when everybody's gathered in myname.
Don't look at the big of you,look at the person right in
(11:34):
front of you.
That would be the best adviceI'd give.
Audrey (11:37):
Many of us would like to
just continue on with life in a
safe and narrow lane, butrealize that unless one uses
one's voice, then you can't lookfor others to make change.
It's up to us as individualsand as a community.
All of us can remember a timewhen someone was gracious to us
and what it meant to us, and whywould that not apply to someone
(12:00):
else?
To someone else, whether it'sletting the person cut across
you in the traffic so they canmake a turn, or whether it's
something much larger, whetherit goes into forgiveness,
whatever the realm may be.
And that is how often changehappens.
Yes, there are times when thereare huge changes, seismic
changes, but often it's bit bybit by bit.
Jill (12:22):
I really appreciate that,
and we can't do this work
without people like you, withoutchurches like yours.
I guess I have a question thatprobably is a personal one, and
I'd love to hear how each of youpersonally has been impacted or
changed or touched by your workwith The Lighthouse.
(12:43):
How has it affected you as anindividual?
Melissa (12:47):
For me, it has provided
a cosmic sense of relief,
relief that we have been givenan opportunity to once again
live out what we proclaim, thatwe love all of God's people.
It's a relief and something,people, it's a relief and
(13:10):
something that is real,something that what do we do?
You put it in front of me andthen you put it in front of
Audrey, and then Audrey and Iput it in front of the people.
And what a relief to be able tosay to them you don't know how
to do this, You're not sure,You're floundering in a world
that's screaming from everycorner in need.
Here's a place that you can dosomething that will be
meaningful.
And they stepped up and did it.
(13:31):
What a relief to have thatopportunity.
What a relief because we'realways trying to make the gospel
, to bring it home to them in areal way.
You know, we give away a lot ofmoney, we give away a lot of
things.
It's that hands-on peace thatis not always available and it
was such a relief to have.
(13:52):
Oh, here's a place where we canpoint them, here's a place
where we can put our here's aplace that will mean something
to so many people.
So relief, that's what I couldsay.
Audrey (14:03):
I will say I admire,
jill, that you have gone from
being maybe monolingual tobilingual, and I appreciate the
gift of your facility withlanguage, Because that's how you
really relate with someone.
And though I've had Spanishclasses, I do not have your
skills, so some of that is maybean accountability to myself.
(14:25):
That the importance ofcontinuing your study and
education to make sure thatyou're able to communicate with
people that you're working withand to diminish the use of a
boundary or separation becauseof something.
What I also find is theunderstanding of God's people
(14:46):
continues to expand and to seehow small, seemingly small
things that even our diocesecould do, such as other
rectories that are underutilizedor space that is underutilized
to use it more appropriately.
In this time where church ischanging in its presence in the
community and I think that'ssomething that we all need to do
(15:10):
more than think about it's timeto put some more action into it
.
So I think, especially in yourdiaconal role, you have modeled
being the deacon in thecommunity and bringing back the
needs of the community to thecongregation so that a loop or
circle can be closed, and anunderstanding of what to do,
because that answers some ofwhat you were asking earlier
(15:32):
what can a small congregation do?
You make it obvious.
Jill (15:36):
So important that we join
together and step up and meet
this moment together.
It's a tough moment in so manyways, and I can't thank you
enough for all of the supportthat you have given to me
personally, to our guests at TheLighthouse, to The Lighthouse
as an entity, as a ministry, andI just so admire the work that
(15:59):
you do at St James and that yourparishioners do.
If every church were a St JamesMontclair, I think our world
would be well-served.
So thank you so much foreverything that you've done.
Audrey (16:13):
Thank you, and I'm
looking forward to making some
preaching dates for you, okay.
Jill (16:18):
Yes, I can't wait to come
back.
Melissa (16:20):
And Jill.
Keep being that holy nudge.
Keep being that nudge.
You are a nudge, there is noother word.
You're a nudge and it'swonderful.
You're the persistent voice yousay get over yourselves.
Just get over whoever you thinkyou are.
Listen to me.
Look, I need help, you need todo this, you need to do this.
(16:40):
Well, we just do it because,for God's sakes, all right,
we'll do it.
I mean, you're a prophet andyou're a persistent, loving
voice.
Don't give up on that.
I know that it has an effectand I don't mean that in a bad
way.
I admire that.
You never give up.
You never stop speaking thetruth about The Lighthouse, even
(17:00):
now when we're in a place whenthe dark night of the soul, when
you said to me I don't evenknow if there's going to be a
Lighthouse in a year, and I waslike, wow, that's a terrible
thing she just said.
And then, two minutes later,you're saying and now I got to
go to Mexico because, wait aminute, what happened to dark
night of the soul and how am Igoing to get there?
I was like what happened toDark Night of the Soul and how
am I going to get there?
(17:21):
I was like, okay, here we goand you kept on and you did what
you needed to do.
And I've known you a long time.
I've known you in manycapacities and to see you in
this capacity it's a very lovelything.
It makes me very hopeful.
And I know that I'm leaving myministry I'm retiring in two
months, but that's okay.
I know that you'll be out there.
You'll be that clarion voiceand Reverend Audrey will be
(17:43):
right next to you and thank you,thank you for allowing me to
finish my ministry out helpingthis way.
It's been tremendouslymeaningful to me, an affirmation
that God calls, god expects youto do something.
Jill (17:58):
You know, on behalf of the
guests at The Lighthouse and I
know they would want me to thankyou heartily, because that is a
house full of very, very, verygrateful people and they do feel
loved for the experience ofbeing in relationship with
people like you and with yourparishioners.
So thank you very much and Godbless you both and with your
(18:24):
parishioners.
So thank you very much and Godbless you both.
Thanks for listening to theCrossing Voices from The
Lighthouse.
Today we heard what happenswhen two clergy and their
congregations say yes, yes tothe gospel that refuses to stay
in the pews, yes to the work ofbuilding real relationships and
yes to making space for truetransformation.
Reverend Audrey spoke about theimportance of showing up, not
(18:47):
to serve at others, but to servewith them, to cook clean, laugh
and learn side by side.
And Reverend Melissa remindedus that the call of the gospel
isn't just comfort, it'sresponsibility.
Their partnership with TheLighthouse has changed lives,
not just of the guests who foundwelcome, but of the people who
(19:08):
offered it.
To every listener wonderingwe're just a small church, what
can we do?
Let their voices be your answer.
You don't need to do everything.
Just start with one.
Feed one person.
Teach to cook one meal, offerone ride, make one friend and
(19:28):
trust that in God's hands thatone is holy.
We'll be back soon with moreepisodes.
In the meantime, please tellyour friends and family about
this podcast and please considerleaving a review on Apple
Podcasts or Spotify To learnmore about The Lighthouse.
Visit lighthousenj.
org.
(19:49):
Peace be with you.