January 22, 2025 • 66 mins
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In Part 1 of this compelling conversation, we talk with Brittney, a long-time former member of Crusade Church. Brittney shares how she became involved with the church and what life was like during her time as a devoted member. Her story offers deep insight into the experiences of those within the church.Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok for more updates, and support the podcast on Patreon or Buy Me a Coffee to help us continue sharing these important stories!Optimized Tags for
#TrueCrimePodcast #CultSurvivor #ReligiousTrauma #ExposingCults #CultStories #FaithDeconstruction #SpiritualAbuse #SurvivorStory #TrueStoryPodcast #PodcastRecommendations #LifeAfterCult #HealingJourney #CultAwareness #DocumentaryStylePodcast #ChurchAbuse #BreakingFree #ApplePodcasts #SpotifyPodcast #PodcastCommunity #CultNextDoor
In Part 1 of this compelling conversation, we talk with Brittney, a long-time former member of Crusade Church. Brittney shares how she became involved with the church and what life was like during her time as a devoted member. Her story offers deep insight into the experiences of those within the church.Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok for more updates, and support the podcast on Patreon or Buy Me a Coffee to help us continue sharing these important stories!Optimized Tags for
#TrueCrimePodcast #CultSurvivor #ReligiousTrauma #ExposingCults #CultStories #FaithDeconstruction #SpiritualAbuse #SurvivorStory #TrueStoryPodcast #PodcastRecommendations #LifeAfterCult #HealingJourney #CultAwareness #DocumentaryStylePodcast #ChurchAbuse #BreakingFree #ApplePodcasts #SpotifyPodcast #PodcastCommunity #CultNextDoor
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
The world tomorrow, The Worldwide Church of God presents Ribert
w Armstrong.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
And I'm here to bring you the truth.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
No one else is telling you the things that God
is telling you through me.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
He's speaking through me the Lord.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Let me experience what it is to be a new bride.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
You know, I'm not worried about what I'm about to say,
though it may be graphic. We're coming to the Lord
and if you.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Can take it, beyond the veil is the chamber. That's
the wedding chamber. The Lord told me that. Hello everyone,
and welcome back to the Colt Next Store Podcast. I
am Maddie Laster. Before we get started today, quick reminder,
go and follow us on our socials. TikTok. It's back,
so go follow us on TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, all that stuff.
(00:52):
We've got our Patreon. Speaking of our Patreon, want to
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shout out to Chase sinshanda shout out to David Brown,
shout out to Heather Bartlett, and new shout out to Carla.
Thank you all for supporting the podcast. You guys deserve
a double portion, so thank you very much for your support.
(01:14):
Speaking of our Patreon, if any of you listeners want
to go support the podcast, we got a couple of
different tiers there. You can either be in the double
Portion club or you can just do a regular I
think it's five dollars a month podcast support if you
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(01:36):
them to yourselves, just you know, bury it deep down inside.
But if you've got a five, please do share. Speaking
of five star reviews, I want to read one from
Cody mckg one. It says, if you have left a
high control situation and find yourself without community, this podcast
will help you feel less alone.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
In the world.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Thank you, Matthew Ashley and all of your guests for
your vulnerability transparency. You have made an impact on me,
and I'm sure there are many more who will find
a sense of being not the only one on this
type of journey. Thank you very much for that review.
Cody really appreciate that we love hearing these kind of
things from our listeners. It does more than you all know.
(02:19):
So today's episode, we talked to Brittany, who was a
former member of Crusade Church for a many many years.
I think we're talking just less than twenty long time.
So we talked about her time in Crusade Church, how
she came to even learn about the Crusade Church, what
it was like as a member, the Love move. We
talk about that a bit, and then eventually how she
(02:40):
found her way out of Crusade Church. So, without further ado,
here is Part one with Brittany. So, Brittany, how did
you even hear about Crusade and start coming in the
first place? Is it how long? What year did you
start coming?
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Two thousand and three? I believe, well my oldis said
it was like two thousand and two. We started like visiting.
I've always known that it's two thousand and three, long time.
That was when I was baptized into the church. The
first time that I met Jin, because she's a big
(03:18):
part of my story, she was she was working in
a classroom. She was just she was so funny. You
know she can't I mean, she's just that type of person.
She can entertain a crowd. Your sister can now. The
first time that I met her, I was like just
(03:39):
been popping in in and out classrooms and stuff. She
didn't say a word to me. But then we got
ended up in the same classroom and we were with
another individual, and her and your sister just hit it off.
And downtime was nap time, and so we'd get all
the kids to sleep and stuff, and we would just
talk and discuss. And I didn't really discuss my personal
(04:02):
life a lot. I talked about my girls, so she
knew that about me somehow. I'm sure I brought it
up to someone and JIN didn't know about that I
was living with a guy. I mean, it wasn't harsh
what she said to me. It was just I just
need to let you know that you're living in sin.
And I remember that I grew up in a home
(04:25):
and my mother was agnostic. We didn't go to church.
She believed in a creator. She doesn't know if it
was an alien that type of stuff. So I remember
talking to my mom and telling her about it, and
I said, well, that's just what her thoughts are. And
(04:45):
we worked well together in the classroom. She was just
I enjoyed working with Jennifer. We loved music. We always
had music playing in our classroom, so something happened and
they were throwing away y'all's literature, and I said something
to her. The girl and your sister started having a
(05:07):
Bible study I think at y'all's house.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Do you remember that, Yeah, And then you were talking
about like the literature. I think they were like leaving
tracks and other stuff like around facility, right.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
I don't know if that was Yeah, I don't know
which sister that was, but they were, and they would
leave them on the table and then other people would
stick them on top of the coke machine or throw
them away, and it was just ridiculous. The other girl
and your sister were having a Bible study, and my
oldest has a shunt and I had to take her
(05:45):
to children's for because and it always ended up that
she had to have a surgery, but they had prayed
and she had been healed. Something left an impression on me,
and that your sister didn't date. I think because she's
(06:06):
your sister's beautiful and she didn't date left an impression
on me. And I think that's one of the things,
you know, and just her character at work. She was
a hard worker. She was always going and always moving,
and our classroom moved well. I guess they went to
(06:29):
the mission trip, right, So.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Yeah, two thousand and oh we had two thousand and one, right,
it was like right after nine to eleven.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Yeah, so they went on that mission trip. And then
when she came back, she was in another room. The
other girl was in she became a therapist to think,
and then I was in another room. So we were separated,
and me and the guy broke up that I was
living with. And I always put this off that I
had to come out of sin for God to open
(07:00):
the door. I always did that with my testimony. But
I don't think that anymore. And I threw that out
the door. My daughter wanted to go to church. She
was crying in the library. She wanted to go to church.
There was all these things piling on me. And I
(07:21):
love my kids, I love my I love my girls.
And so the parent teacher conference, the teacher told me
she was crying in the library. And we visited other churches,
but it just didn't click. Your sister asked me if
I wanted to have a Bible study, and so I
started having Bible studies with her. And I don't think
(07:41):
that lasted too long. I don't know. But then I
ended up going to church the first time, and it
wasn't the church. It was on Detroit, but it wasn't
on Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
That's when we were like renting. It was a Sunday
church that we were renting on Saturday.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Yes, yeah, it was a Sunday church we were renting,
And so I went there. And the first time I
went there, I let an older lady that was part
of our congregation asked me afterwards if it was weird,
and I said, I said, it just it's just like
any other church, because I mean I attended ye, I mean,
(08:23):
now I know, but I attended churches before, but they
were like Assembly of God, so they were kind of
charismatic and stuff like that. So Crusade wasn't dropped to
the floor out of the spirit and running. So I
thought that was weird. It wasn't a red flag to me.
(08:45):
We kind of went through the motions and stuff, and
that's with Crusade. It was a charismatic church.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
What did you notice about Dad when you first came in?
Speaker 1 (08:58):
He was very He was very presentable, you know, in
a suit, and very nice and charming and very hospitable,
welcoming and stuff like that. He was very welcoming. I
don't think I always followed the way he wanted me
(09:20):
to follow, even at the beginning, because he wanted me
to be baptized quickly and I told him no so
and he was perturbed. But I just kind of I
don't know why I didn't see it at the time.
I think I was just so into I was already
(09:42):
into that truth, you know that, because I did so
much research. I'm that type of person. I just fixate
on that. And then when I start researching and all
this stuff, all this stuff comes up on the internet,
because at that time we had the Internet, but it
was like up at my house, and so I was
(10:03):
researching things, and I was reading the Bible and scripture
after scripture and stuff like that, and it all pointed
to what he was talking about. That's what I focused on.
And so when he acted out, I think I just
pushed all that ship aside, I think and that that
was just a bad thing to do. But I didn't
(10:28):
see it until I came out of it. How controlled
I was, because he always said that, well, you have
the freedom to do what you want.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Yeah, I don't tell anybody what to do.
Speaker 4 (10:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Yeah, that was whenever the He told me that several times.
I'm not I don't tell anybody what to do, but
he really did tell you what to do.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
I'm not going to tell you what to do, but here's
what you gotta do.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
Yeah, serious consequences if you don't.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Yeah, well you don't. You don't. You don't see those
consequences until your shunned. That's one thing I want to
put up front. I've forgiven most people because I've been
through therapy and we just didn't have the tools to
see it. I don't have any hard feelings about things.
It's just I know that that relationship probably won't go anywhere.
(11:20):
But if I see her in a if I see
any your sister, I see her in Kroger, I'll say
hi to her now. Yeah, but I had to work
through that. I had a lot of aggression towards her
and stuff, and it mainly dealt with my children. I'm
still struggling with your dad. Every time I see that
(11:42):
truck that looks like his, that rises up in me.
And I still have a problem with Sasha and al.
I want to call her Ali because my children. I
have a sister named Alex. Yeah, So is that okay?
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Yeah, that's fine, Okay, everybody listening. Ali is Alex for
this zop.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
They did so much harm together, those three, and Ali
is she's a young person, and I and if she
does listen to this at all, I just pray. I mean,
I just want her to get help. I mean she
needs to be in counseling of some kind, you know.
And if the other two are listening, they need to
be in counseling too. Your dad, I would go over
(12:34):
to your house and stay till three o'clock in the
morning just talking, yeah to your dad about scripture and
he was so knowledgeable, right, But I didn't know any
other faith really in their doctrine. I didn't know. I
was coming into this as a person that was raised agnostic.
(12:54):
But I seeked knowledge, you know. I wanted I remember
telling my mom that I was going to go to
college to figure out this biblical thing that's over here.
So I seeked that. I wanted the knowledge and stuff,
and Crusade gave it. So I think that's what was
so impressionable to me. And the community. I've never had
(13:23):
a community, I guess, and I had just left of
relationship and I didn't really have anyone but my mom
and I had my exes, my girl's grandparents, which were
(13:43):
they showed that was my girl's life. Best was then
because they believed in unconditional love and they showed it
continually to them. So I my children were in a
separate household, so I was divorced, and so they would
(14:05):
go to their dad's, you know, on the weekend, and
they would go to but really it was their grandparents.
And so here are these people and I throw this
at them. I don't know. I was working at the
(14:25):
preschool and everything was okay. When I was dating, I
was living with this guy and everything. And then you
know that scripture where it's, well, I was thrown at
us a lot that you will be persecuted. That was
thrown a lot at me at the beginning, because I
was going through it. I was going through it at work.
(14:47):
I was going through it with people that were at work,
and they were telling me that it was a cult.
And then and then the grandparents were as they were
telling her that I was going in and so, and
she was really into the holidays and everything like that,
and then it just like she was freaking freaking out.
(15:10):
I knew her since I was sixteen, because that's when
I started dating her son, and so she was like
a second mom to me. The grandfather said, we're going
to do what we're going to do, and that's it.
Like they were going to keep Christmas and Halloween and
all that stuff. We're still keeping it, and you have
(15:31):
no control over that, and so and I didn't. So
my children lived in a different environment than y'all did
when all that was going on. Your dad just kind
of took me under his wing, and I would go
over there upset about it, and you know these people,
and he pretty much would give me the story about
(15:52):
your grandparents.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
Right.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
I think he preached I think he preached on that
a lot during that time.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
And like what what did he say?
Speaker 1 (16:05):
He just basically he said that they had to make
a stand, that this was the way it was going
to be, and our children weren't going to keep the
holidays and if you can't follow the rules with it,
we're presenting this to you, and this is how our family.
We're following God first, this is what's happening in our life. Basically,
(16:27):
like you wouldn't go and celebrate Christmas, you wouldn't put
yourself in that situation. That was for That was what
we were told. Like I remember struggling taking a Christmas
bonus at work.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Yeah, yeah, I was. I would be praying, like, please workplace,
make it a holiday or end of the year bonus,
because if it says Christmas the thing.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Ah, I can't take it. And then if it and
then if you were found out that you took the
Christmas bonus, oh my god blood. It was, yes, but
that that was I think that's how I remember it.
I don't remember all of it, Ashley. They pretty much
that you couldn't interact with your grandparents.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
I know his parents moved to Conway, which is just,
you know, not that far, but enough removed that they
weren't in town anymore where it was easy to see them.
And I don't know the details, but there was a
point at which we just stopped seeing them. I know
I was close to them, or at least to Dad's
(17:37):
mother when I was little, but then there's this like
massive gap in my childhood where I have really almost
no memories of them at all, and there was no
longer a closeness. And then she passed away when I
was seventeen. So I always thought that was like she
(17:57):
and Dad had a difficult relationship they but it had
and I thought it was probably that, like he he's
unable to he's unable to compromise or make peace with people.
It's like, it's my way, and if you can't fall
in with me, then there's nothing. And I just assumed
(18:19):
as I got older, Oh, that's probably what it was.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Yes, I'm pretty sure that's what it is, because that's
the way. I mean, later down the road, it's his way.
You know. I saw that, but I didn't. I couldn't
really see it until I came out of it. I
guess because your dad somewhat betrayed himself as being reasonable.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
Yeah, but you know, he's very he was always very,
very skillful at presenting scriptures in a weaponized way that
didn't feel weaponized in the moment. And it's very hard
when you are in a discussion with him. It's hard
(19:06):
to not be pulled in to that with him. I
think he is so well versed in the Bible he
can pull out any scripture to support what his agenda is.
I mean to the point of you know, separating us, yeah,
(19:27):
from family members, because he with with Mom's parents. I mean,
they were very grieved, but they they took a different approach.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
You know.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
I think Dad and his own mom had their own
struggles growing up and they definitely butted heads, and so
she probably challenged him on all of this, whereas grit My,
you know, Mom's parents, I don't think really provided much
of a challenge to it, because at that point they
kind of knew who Dad was, and they were like,
(20:00):
we're going to lose our daughter. And you know, I
think I was the only one maybe Sarah was born
at the time when they came into the World Wide
Church of God. But we're going to lose our daughter
and our grandchildren, and so we just have to be
quiet and bear this. And that's what they did, or
else I don't think that we would have been able
(20:21):
to have a relationship with them.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
And they did up until everything that happened with you.
I remember, I won't get into the whole thing, but
the kind of the meeting where grandma and Granddad came
to the house and it was kind of like the
final butting of the heads that and that's where we
had a gap where like we did not see them
for years. But yeah, I mean, looking back at it now,
(20:44):
even though I was younger, like they definitely like they
knew what they were dealing with as much as you could,
but they were just trying to like keep it in check.
But then when Dad did what he did with you,
it's like, how do you and they could not swallow
that where it's just like you're not going to be
on this at all.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
But even then they were still willing to have a
relationship and just not talk about it, but have one
with me, and have one with mom and Dad and
the rest of you. But the you know, obviously I
wasn't there, but what Granddad and Grandma told me later
was that, you know, they were told there would be
(21:21):
no forgiveness. Those were the words because having a relationship
with me, and because Granddad walked me down the aisle
to you know, at my wedding to Kurt that he
you know, and they wrote that in letters to me too,
like you know, we were I think somebody wrote, deprived
(21:42):
of of getting to have this experience with our firstborn child,
and I just thought that was yours that you threw away.
It's like you chose not to be there and participate.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
Like I don't know if you guys have seen that
meme it's like a cartoon meme uh two panels where
it's just somebody riding a bike and then they stick
a stick in their front wheel and crash, and then
the next frame is like, why did so and so
do that? That's what this reminds me of, Like they
did it to themselves, and they're like, why did you
do this to us? You did it? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (22:16):
Yeah, So Grandad and Grandma left there feeling just devastated
and defeated. And it wasn't just mom and Dad. The
siblings were. Some of the siblings were involved in that
conversation and were some of the harshest critics of their
character for doing that, and so they just felt like
(22:38):
at that point, like they lost everything, you know. I
think they still tried, but it was so strained.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
It was just yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
And my granddad, he told me before he died. They
were they got up, this is on a Sunday after church,
and they tried to have this conversation and it went south,
you know, and it was there's nothing else to be said.
And they got up and they were at the door leaving,
(23:10):
and Granddad turned around and said to Dad, Larry, I
tried to take you under my wing.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Son, I remember you remember. I can see it. I
can like play it like a videotape in my mind
right now, like I remember that. And then when Granddad left,
like Dad was just laughing it off, like what does
that mean type thing? So of course you don't know
what that means. Like no, remember that.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
No one would take your dad, and he was like
the top, top dog.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
But Dad goes to show that this pathology was there
so early because Mom and Dad got married at ages
seventeen and eighteen. And you know, I was born when
Dad was twenty years old, and even then, like Granda,
just to quick aside, Granddad tells a story of when
(24:05):
I was born. I lived with Mom with Granddad and
Grandma for like two or three weeks. Dad did not
see me. He was like out in the woods finding
God or some there's some weird story about this.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
I don't I'm not trying as no slant. I just
I thought that was.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
I don't even know probably. And so then so then
like weeks later, like I'm being brought home, you know,
which was hard for Grandad and Grandma. They just like
wanted to keep us there. Granddad and Grandma like brought
us home and Dad had a German Shepherd big dog,
and Mom had me in my carrier and she didn't
(24:48):
want the dog in the room because she was afraid,
you know, I'm a newborn. And Dad is like, no,
it's fine, and Mom was like no, Larry, you know,
like I I don't feel comfortable. I don't you know,
want the dog in here. And Dad just kept like refusing,
saying no, and our granddad like, I don't know, you
(25:10):
probably met him, yes, like the kindest, most gentle person
I've ever met in my life, Like you cannot imagine,
Like he doesn't stand up for himself usually, or he didn't,
and it's alwa's so like peacekeeping. And he just said, Larry,
(25:30):
get that damn dog out of this house now, which
is like the one and only time he ever stood
up to Dad. But Dad did it, oh, which I
was like, Okay, there was still like maybe some time
for him to not turn into a full blown narcissist,
(25:52):
but he did it. But you know, there were other
things where Grandad tried to help him, but his egos
like enormous. It's like there's no way he's gonna take help.
But anyway, that was kind of a little bit of
that back history, granted, and Grandma.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
He was very proud of, like the band thing. You remember,
he'd bring that.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Up in sermons, Do I remember, Yeah, Yeah, I had
a recording contract with Casino Records.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
Yes, yeah, we still want to know. How can we
find out if that's true, because of course we bought it.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
But now I'm just.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
Like, well, I know, he just says all kinds of things,
like maybe maybe that didn't happen.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
It would be so cool if you could find some
of his classmates and interview them on how your dad
is in high school.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
Maybe a record shop next to a casino tried to
hire him, and then it turned into Casino Records try
to give me a record contract. We'll never know.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
I mean, he was very talented. We have to give
him that, like definitely could have. But yeah, I just
don't know. Did he Yeah yeah, I mean he said
he turned it down.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
Yeah, because of the Lord the Sabbath.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
At the end. Yeah, and that was always brought to everyone. Yeah,
and that went to you, you could lose your job.
You need to find a different job. You don't break
the Sabbath.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
So many people lost their jobs going to the feast.
I remember that so many people being at the feast
knowing they didn't have a job or income to come
back to after ten days or whatever it was with travel.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
Yeah, I mean I had let I had moved to
working in a preschool, so I didn't have to worry
about that. But I remember Jessica's stepdad did, right, he
had to. Yeah, yeah, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
We had a couple or more people that either lost
their jobs or you know, essentially had to leave because
they weren't going to be given h the time for
the feast, you know.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Yeah, you couldn't be baptized unless you were there, like
like you were going to be committed. Well, that was
a lot of that's a lot of things that I regret.
I witnessed to people about this and and I've really
didn't I'm at first I was like dead hard, you know,
the Sabbath and stuff like that. But then once I
(28:25):
I just I had relatives. I had a great aunt
and she was a Christian, and I knew she was
a Christian. She kept Sunday and everything, and I started
spending more time with family, and that kind of knocked
me out of that. I would still say that the
Sabbath is a blessing that's there missing out of But
I didn't think that it was a condemning thing. But
(28:48):
I kept I kept that ship to myself.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
I don't think you're condemned, mean, but you probably are.
Speaker 3 (28:55):
But part of the thing was the scripture that says
the Sabbath, she'll be a sign between me and my
people or something to that effect. And so I know
that was always used like, well, like you're not even considered,
you know, a Christian if you aren't keeping that, and
then you know, then it gets even more minute after
(29:15):
that about exactly what you believe and what group you're in.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Yeah. Well, I mean once I came out of it
and stuff, my Otis lived with me, and so we
were kind of like bouncing stuff off of each other.
And like in the in the New Testament, like there
are people that are godly that weren't keeping the Sabbath,
like they were doing things on the Sabbath, even work,
(29:43):
and God was not condemning them. My my Otis kind
of went off and researched worldwide.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
When like early on or reset no.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
No, no, well, like you know when she left that
first time, she was she was pulling all kinds of
shit off the internet, like the newsletters and stuff. You know,
he's pulling all of it. And she met the last
she needed the last newsletter for Worldwide where that split
(30:20):
where they started keeping Sunday and stuff. She needed that
last one. But the secret one. It wasn't the It
wasn't the one that they gave to the people of Worldwide.
It was the one that your dad would talk about.
And he would say that they were telling the people
one thing, but they were telling us who were in
service another thing. That's what I remember. I mean, I'm
(30:43):
not certain on all this, matt And actually because I
get things confused.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
But did he talk very much about Herbert Armstrong?
Speaker 1 (30:53):
So I would think I read a lot of script
I read a lot of Christian writers, you know C. S. Lewis.
I think your dad like introduced me to him. Mere
Christianity was like one of my first reads and stuff.
But Herbert Armstrong and all the Sabbath keeping churches, he
would say they were dead. Yeah, he would pretty much
(31:14):
cut that off, and that they didn't believe in the spirit.
They didn't believe that like in prophecy and this, that
and the other, and that's what we believed, and they
didn't believe in worship, which is a big thing of Crusade,
was worship that. I mean that if we y'all wouldn't
have done that live band, I don't know if I
(31:35):
would have been pulled in so strong, because that was
one of the things that pulled me in was the music.
And that's one of the things I love was music.
And I remember that was such a hard hard thing
to leave. Was our band.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
Yeah, signet well, and I think too on the band part,
Like it's not that we were a particularly good band
or anything, but for our background, we certainly were. Like
when people would come to the feast, like that was
a big focal point for people like, oh they've got
a full worship band, and it's not just all hymns
(32:13):
because people of our background that they did not do that.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
Yeah, like we had visited other churches. Yeah yeah, yeah
it was just hymns or or it was the blue book, Yeah,
Armstrong music. So that's in every one of them.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
So you were I guess what you were trying to
say is like that was one of the things that
like pulled you in. So you've talked about the band
kind of being a draw. What were some of the
other things like after you you know, started coming and
like you talked a little bit about your baptism that
were drawing you further in and like.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
Keeping you just connections with y'all. You know, at the beginning,
I had a connection with the Lasttter family. I guess
you know, you know, Jin was me under her wing
and stuff like that, and it just felt good. I
don't remember when it happened, but like my youngest, I
(33:11):
remember just having someone to talk to, talking to your
mom about parental things, like she could she could cry,
and I remember she got in trouble and she was
just crying and screaming in the room and I called
your mom because I just couldn't. I couldn't deal because
you know, you find out a lot about yourself when
(33:33):
you start researching and stuff, and I would get overstimulated.
And I'm just that type of person. Now we're earplugs
when I have to deal with certain noises and stuff.
But I couldn't deal with it as a single parent,
and I had no one to turn to because I
because my you know, my my mom was she just
(33:58):
let me do whatever. You know, I didn't have rules
as a teenager really or as a kid. I don't
remember getting a lot of spankings for my mom. I
was just I called and then your sister stepped in
and she said, go give her the phone. And that's
(34:19):
all I had to do, is I gave my child
this phone and she said whatever to her? Oh, she said,
do you want me to come over there? You better stop.
And it's all she had to do and it stopped
the crying.
Speaker 3 (34:35):
But of course you your kid is gonna listen to
someone else. They don't know what the other person.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
Will or won't do, won't do. Yes, yes, you know.
Speaker 3 (34:42):
That's just like normal for kids to behave differently with
their parents than with someone else anyway.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
So just the draw that I have some assistance, I
guess that was part of it. I guess in my
community because I I leaned on that that they would
help me with my kids and that they had someone
to look up to, I guess. And but I gave
(35:13):
that and that's one of the one of the things
that I regret the most. And I came out of
that per se a little bit before I left the church,
like because it started the policing with the boys twenty
fifteen at the feast, so Blake's brother was there. Then
(35:36):
two new guys showed up and they were younger, right,
So I guess the little girls in our congregation were
having a game who would hug Blake's brother the most.
I don't know, so I didn't know about this. No
(35:57):
one confronted me about this at the feast, and I
don't know how it got back to your sisters, but
it did. I'm sure I know. I'm sure it was Sasha,
and I'm sure it was Ali because she would because
I babysit it, so she would get her brother into trouble,
like one time she got him into trouble, but she
(36:19):
was instigating it, like she would instigate him and he
finally blew his top, and so she would come crying
to me, Well, I'm not like her mom. And I
know that her brother told her several times to leave
her alone. And I said, well, you go to time out.
She goes, why am I going to time out? And
(36:39):
I'm like, because you instigated it, go sit down. And
then I got on to the brother. But that continued
with her, So I'm sure that that was instigated by her.
I don't think it was instigated by anyone else that
with the younger girls. I don't think so.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
So.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
So after the fees, we got pulled into the nurse.
Was it the nursery at the time. Did we have
babies at the time or was it still.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
Called twenty fifteen. I don't think we did.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
Didn't have babies.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
Yeah, where you go to go and get down trouble? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (37:15):
Were you goingt in trouble? I guess it went the
lasted lounge. It was the music room.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yep, at the glass door so everyone
could see that you were getting ripped the shreds.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
Yep. So we went in there as parents, all the
single moms that were there, And that was brought to
my attention, and I said, and I knew my kid,
I said, my kid didn't do that. My youngest was
friends with Ali and another young girl in the church.
(37:48):
They were all friends, well they were the youngest, and
they would spend the night at Sasha's house and apparently
they weren't cleaning up their mess, and she didn't come
to me as a parent. She went to your sisters.
So that was brought up in that meeting, something about
I think dishwashing, that we were washing dishes too much
(38:13):
that I remember I don't know, I'm off topic. I
think again.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
We need to come back to that though, the dishwashing issue.
But no, I think where we got off as I
was asking you about things that that drew you in
and kind of kept you crusading. You were talking about
like the being able to talk to mom and yeah,
and like the help because you were at that point
in time to single mother, like all of that.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
Yeah, so okay, so that was the draw was that
was the music, and your mom was a big draw.
Your mom she was so sweet, and your dad was
you know, charismatic and he did a lot of scripture
and stuff. And I was seeking knowledge and just the
fact that I had a community because I didn't have one.
So that was the big draw to me. I think
(39:00):
that was why. And my girls the first feast, my
girls loved it. My girls loved it and it was
just us, you know, and my youngest.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
What year would that have been that feast?
Speaker 1 (39:13):
I think that was two thousand and three, okay, because
my girls were little. My youngest was little, she was
four yeah yeah, and called her slow yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
Well Bow from Monsters Inc. Because she like bo she
was that the girl's name. Sorry, yeah, she liked.
Speaker 1 (39:36):
Lou Shelby Showbow, but it had to do with that.
She hated it. She hated it. She's like, why are
they called me this?
Speaker 2 (39:46):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (39:47):
And I said, it's just a nickname.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
It's okay, the term of endearment. I didn't know.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
She hated it, hated it. But she ended up hating
her name too. So that first feast, we had lots
of kids. You know, well you were young, you're really young,
and yeah, yeah, Chelsea was there, and the young lady
(40:16):
that we're about their age, she was there with her family.
So that was a lot of kids for a feast.
And my kids loved it. They just loved it. And
they just you know, and my oldest I always assumed
my oldest wanted to learn. And she was over at
(40:41):
my house and we were discussing this before. It was
not last I think it was last weekend or the
weekend before, but she was over there over here for
I said, I just need someone to talk to. You
got to come over here and talk to me and stuff,
because they're not living with me now. I was having
a hard day, and so she came over when I
(41:03):
could talk, and we talked about things, and I said
and I read her when I sent you, and I
started thinking about something that I wrote, and there was well,
we visited two other churches. But she didn't like it
because she wasn't learning. And I was like, well, that's
just weird. Jasmine was six, she was six years old,
(41:25):
I think or seven when we started, right and I said,
that's weird, I said, and then I backtracked and you
put logic in there. It's because we visited other churches.
That's why she wanted to go back to church because
I stopped going. But that was talking to her, and
she said, no, you're right, mom, And I'm like, I said,
(41:47):
what do you mean? She goes because her cousin, her
step cousin, was asking her, every time you went to church,
what'd you learn at Sunday School? And when we were
going to these churches, they were giving her color and
sheets and she was watching finding Nebo and stuff. She
was like, I didn't learn jack shit from these churches.
He's off telling her all, uh, I learned about Joseph's
(42:09):
coat and this, that and the other, and so she's
not learning anything. And she goes, you're right, because she
wanted to talk about it to him, who was her friend.
So Jasmine did want to learn. That was part of
the draw in the crusade. That was part of their thing.
They had knowledge. Your dad had that he had knowledge.
Speaker 3 (42:33):
Well, that was a point of pride in the Worldwide
Church of God is you know, we don't just give
these emotional thirty minute you know, hype messages. We're these
are lectures. We're learning, We're getting our notebooks out, we're
highlighting yes and we are We've got Josiphas over here
(42:59):
in a Lexi con over on the other side, and
like we're looking at what every word means in Greek
and Hebrew and so yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
So that was my draw. That was what I wanted.
That was whenever I was talking to my mom, that
was what I wanted. I wanted that, I wanted the
I wanted the research part of it because I'm that
type of person. So m and so when that happened,
and it didn't last thirty like I visited other churches,
(43:32):
didn't last thirty minutes, it lasted multiple hours. And then
you had a potluck and you could discuss it more.
And then and then after that you had women's study,
so you're discussing even more. You know, so that was
the draw and I'm still that way. So I have
to grill that in sometimes because I'll get focused on
(43:53):
one thing and I'll fixate on it, but I'm like, Okay,
I need to put that aside for a little while.
So that's that was my draw to them, is that.
And my kids loved it. You know, they had children's
study I think at the time, and your sisters were
part of that, and it was and they made it.
(44:15):
I don't think it was. I don't think they were harsh.
I don't think at that time. And I was trying
to talk to Jess about some of this, like when
that started, that the policing started. She said, it's oh,
it was always there for them, But I guess it
was a certain age. So I wasn't aware of anything
(44:36):
like that. And I was coming into it and I
was so focused on studying and research and all that stuff.
There was an issue that I was stumbling over something.
You know, I had feelings for someone and i'd brought
it to your debt, to your sister's attention. It was
Sarah and she she was very soft spoken to me,
(44:58):
but I didn't know that it would reach out to
everybody else. I still think I remember when they did
this single, like the we had to fill out a
worksheet and what you what you were? We filled out
this I have I should have found it, but I
forgot about it until just now. But it was like
to who would you want as a partner? Do you
(45:22):
remember that? And like you filled out I have that
somewhere saved somewhere, I mean put in some book, I'm sure,
but it was like questions, like you would ask yourself
that who you would want your helpmate, crap and everything,
(45:43):
But it wasn't it was I don't know. And that
was another thing that was we as women. And that's
not just in Crusade. That's in multiple churches and that is.
Speaker 3 (45:55):
That's another society at large.
Speaker 1 (45:59):
Except and my mother was very independent and she would
That's probably why I didn't ever listen to your dad.
But and I was he told when my daughter, my
oldest daughter, started questioning things, when he was being like
things were contradicting in the scriptures and stuff. Jaz remembers
(46:20):
a lot of crap like scriptures because she was so
she would sit there and listen. The youngest slept through
the whole thing and until she was ten. I think
she was still sleeping.
Speaker 3 (46:34):
She was ten.
Speaker 1 (46:37):
And the few and I got confronted about it by
one of your sisters that she needs to be waking
up taking it.
Speaker 3 (46:46):
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (46:48):
But so I was somewhat of a different parent though
I was strict. I was a strict parent that I
harped on that scripture about authority, and I wish I
wouldn't have harped on that scripture like I did, because
children have voices too, and they don't need that in
their head, especially if someone puts them in inappropriate situations
(47:12):
and they're uncomfortable. They should have that right to say
I don't want to hug you.
Speaker 3 (47:17):
Absolutely, you know.
Speaker 1 (47:19):
But that was my draw was the knowledge, and it
was pride. I'm I'm I'm a I think that I
don't know. I think that I have a problem. I
had a problem with that before I went into Crusade,
and man, I'm sure that increased when I came at
the beginning.
Speaker 2 (47:37):
Just you mean like the pride of having the knowledge,
having the special place, that kind of thing. Yeah, I
think we definitely just as a church, and that definitely
goes back to Worldwide two. Like that pride of being
in the end group, which is kind of like a
hallmark of occult like you know, you know, they don't
(47:58):
type of thing. Yeah, you know, even if you in
your mind would say, well, I'm not above them, you
think you are, Like I remember feeling that way with
cool workers. Like I wouldn't like think that exact thought,
but I did think that I was better than them
because I was actually doing what the amendment said and
I was doing this or that. You know, we had
(48:18):
that really ingrained for years, you know.
Speaker 1 (48:21):
We did, and he would, but he would That's why
your dad kind of he would preach that this isn't
their last chance because that's a hard thing to digest,
that your family's going to hell. Yeah, so he would
say they would have a second chance. The books weren't
open to them at this time, but God will reopen
(48:44):
the books to them, you know, at the judgment.
Speaker 2 (48:49):
And then they might go to hell.
Speaker 1 (48:51):
And then they might go to hell if they refused it,
you know, but then you're not going to remember who
they are. I think it was one thing I remember.
I know, the music was a big draw and that
was a big thing for me because it still is
part of my life. That's I love going. That's why
(49:14):
I love y'all's area because of the concerts and stuff.
Speaker 2 (49:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:18):
Yeah, but it's hard for me now because everyone's moved.
I mean, I lost my community. I left kind of
before everyone else. I mean, my daughter, I had her
i otis, but when I left, it was hard because
(49:38):
I was losing everything I was. That's why I'm so
glad y'all did this, especially because actually your testimony stuff,
it rings so true. Sorry to my heart because you lost,
you lost your whole. I can't imagine. I mean, I
(50:00):
had someone. My oldest left first. She left first, but
she was researching it, and.
Speaker 3 (50:08):
She was like, this isn't right.
Speaker 1 (50:09):
He's contradicting it, and he's going back to worldwide. Mom,
he's going back to worldwide and stuff. She goes, because
I've read the papers. I've read the papers and i'm reading,
I'm reading. I found this and I just she researched it,
you know, And she said, and a lot of doctrine
that we would preach, like the British Israelite thing, that
(50:33):
that doctrine is really racist. And I was fair and yeah,
and I didn't never put it that way. I always but
in spiritual you know, when we're out of our bodies.
So I didn't really put it that way, but then
when I came out, I saw how racist it was.
And it's so devastating because you have these people that
(50:55):
are different races that are going to Church of God
churches and they still believe this shit and they know
it's racist because because my oldest brought it up in
one of the other churches, she goes, well, that's just
a racist doctrine. The pastor saw my daughter's expression when
(51:15):
he brought it up, I guess, and he asked her
about it, which is good. I think is a It
was a good thing. But he asked her about it
and she said, well, I believe that's a racist doctrine.
And it's one of the other individuals, which is such
a sweet man, and he is biracial. He said it is.
(51:37):
I'm so glad to hear that. I'm so glad to
hear the youth, the in the youth that's coming up.
I'm so glad to hear that and stuff. And I'm thinking,
this gentleman has been in this congregationbobly most of his
life and he's had to deal with this doctrine, this
racist doctrine. And it's not just in it's just not
(51:57):
in worldwide, it's in other ones. When we came out,
my daughter came out first, my oldest, and then I
left And that was the hardest thing to do.
Speaker 4 (52:07):
Because I had to leave my youngest and I saw
it for what it was, though it took me forever.
Speaker 1 (52:17):
But because from January when I had that first meeting
with your when I had that meeting with your dad,
I didn't leave till June, and I was still corresponding
with your dad, Matt somewhat. I mean not like I was,
but I was still I was still sending tith I
(52:37):
think in offerings. But then when I started visiting other
churches and realizing what it was and everything, I stopped
doing that.
Speaker 2 (52:49):
But before we jump into your like you were talking
about leaving and losing your community, I know obviously there's
lots of time in between, you know, your first few
years and leaving. Is there anything of note before things
really started to heat up that you wanted to touch
(53:09):
on between you know, those early years, and I guess
twenty eighteen nineteen, anything like that.
Speaker 1 (53:16):
The next year, you remember that next Feast two thousand
and five was a big year, because that's when Sasha
comes into the picture.
Speaker 2 (53:23):
I think that's right.
Speaker 1 (53:25):
Yeah, that's her first feast. She was buried at the time,
and I remember the first one of the first things
she said to me because we all of us single
ladies were in a that's when we all had to
like bunk up together and stuff, and so we were
up like a crazy amounts of hours. I remember her.
(53:49):
Something happened and we had seen some spiritual things. And
that's where I struggle now, like I've seen things, I've
seen things and everything, and what what was that? And
how do I explain that to my psyche? So I
(54:09):
have to deal with that? And I was I don't
think I was appointed a prophetess at that time. I
don't know when that happened. It was when we moved
to that to the church that it is now.
Speaker 2 (54:23):
Yeah, which I'm glad you brought that up because I
have that's kind of a strange thing to think about asking.
But you know, we had people in the church that
were appointed like prophets or prophetess is like you were
appointed a prophetess at some point, like you said, I
don't know if it was by this year.
Speaker 1 (54:42):
Yeah, but Yeah, it was a strange. It was strange
to me.
Speaker 2 (54:48):
I guess what do you.
Speaker 1 (54:51):
Are?
Speaker 2 (54:52):
You able to make heads or tails of that? Now?
Speaker 1 (54:56):
Your dad caught me a barometer because I would feel
things and I couldn't. I don't. I don't know. I
still feel things like at this rush that goes through
and I don't know what that is. I don't have
a clue. I don't know if that's from God or
if it's from somebody. Well, I don't have a clue.
But I don't know if your dad knew that at
the time. I was a young Christian when he appointed
(55:17):
me a prophet is and it was after a worship
service and we were in where that was before we
met in the sanctuary. We were still listening to CDs,
but we used to listen to a CD, A worship
Wow she CD.
Speaker 2 (55:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (55:38):
He pulled me aside and he told me that God
told him that I was appointed a prophetess. And I
don't know why that happened that night. I don't remember
before what happened and stuff. And I said, uh, and
it was part of my face because my face is
(56:00):
I might not understand what you're talking about, and my
face reads whatever that I'm thinking usually got me in
a lot of trouble a lot of times. I of course,
what I did when I got home was what the
hell is the prophet is? What the hell am I
supposed to do? And I fixated on it, and I
(56:21):
would pray usually whenever before I would pray, and I
would flip open the Bible and it opened to Jeremiah
chapter one, and it talked about a prophet. I still
didn't understand what a prophet was, I don't think until
I really came out. But he the next day did
(56:43):
the same chapter, like chapter one of Jeremiah, like one
through nine or ten or something like that, and I
something about Cole. Do you remember this? Something about Cole.
So he touched my lips and he prayed over and
he touched my lips, and I remember, yeah, yeah, and stuff.
(57:05):
It was just with us, you know, hands, and and
then after that I was prophetess and you being a woman,
you're not like a man, and you have to wear
covering over your head whenever you give that. And then
of course Dad, and of course Dad, he was the
only prophet, he was the only man. Yeah, I heard
from God, which.
Speaker 2 (57:25):
Yeah, that's a good point. I don't. I'm trying to remember.
I don't want to misremember, but I don't think during
the whole Crusade church experience that there was another profit
male prophet that I can recall.
Speaker 1 (57:39):
I remember writing people and stuff like that, and I
took that to heart. That was probably a pride issue.
You know, your dad probably knew you know people, He
knew that he I don't know, he just he knew
how to read people. I think your dad just knew
(58:00):
that and everything. And so I would talk to your
dad a lot. I would say that I would hear
things and I would talk to him, or I would
I would have dreams, you know, and I would talk
to him about it.
Speaker 3 (58:17):
When you say that you've seen things, like what's an
example of that something that you've seen that you still
don't know what that was or makes it hard to
reconcile everything that happened.
Speaker 1 (58:32):
That Feast of two thousand and five, Me and another lady,
an older lady that was in the congregation, and it
was just I guess the ones that were in my
cabin type thing were outside worshiping. We were just listening
to music and we were worshiping, and I saw one
of the trees and they were like burning, but they
(58:54):
weren't burning, kind of like Moses. And I don't know
what that is. You know something in your psyche when
people say things my instigate stuff. Yeah, yeah, some of
this I think was because that it linked to pride.
You know, I don't know how the brain works and
(59:15):
stuff like that and everything, and some could have been
instigated by a sermon or I could just be crazy,
but it could have been what we're reading. I instigated it.
And that's where I'm at right now. And I don't
believe that I'm a prophetest because I haven't predicted the
(59:37):
future and I don't believe that anymore. But it's hard.
I just don't know how to explain. Well, there's sometimes
that I feel like dear music. I kind of know
now because I know that music, like there's different wave
links and stuff like that, and they put things to
(59:57):
make you emotional. So I've kind of put it in
that thing because I heard that. I felt that a
lot we're worshiping like that rush, you know, that tingly
type thing. I feel it like rush through my body. Yeah,
And I don't know how to explain that or why
that happens. To me, but it does, so I that's
(01:00:19):
what I kind of blow that off ass, But I
still believe that there's creator. I'm kind of back to
where my mom was, you know, and I know that
there's a right and a wrong. But I think it's
more to me now is do no harm. Do no
(01:00:41):
harm to people, you know, treat them with kindness. That's
where our churches need to be. I read a book
that really moved me away from what we were doing,
and I started listening to Timothy Keller, which pissed off
your dad so bad, and I started reading his books.
I was reading a lot because I didn't understand. I
(01:01:03):
was feeling all this unworthiness and I was feeling I
couldn't do anything right, and I was feeling hatred towards
my brothers and sisters and the Lord. And when you
come to passover and you're feeling that, holy shit, it's
scary as hell.
Speaker 3 (01:01:23):
Oh yeah. We talked about that, I think with Chelsea.
Speaker 1 (01:01:27):
Yeah, that is the scariest. Your dad made that so
fearful that you could die or you were going to
be sick or something deficutating. Yeah. Yeah. And the first
passover I went to after was at a different congregation,
and he said, we mess up. Even though you mess up,
(01:01:49):
the Lord wants you here. He wants you here like
an unconditional love top thing. And that was the first
time I think your dad would say that. But they're undertones.
He would always bring that scripture back in, you know,
he would say that, Oh, there's grace, there's grace. But
(01:02:10):
it was a facade. There wasn't grace. We didn't have it.
I would listen to different things, and we were all
connected on Facebook, so there was no secrets, and I
posted everything that I read and your dad hated it.
He hated it.
Speaker 3 (01:02:25):
What did he say about it?
Speaker 1 (01:02:28):
One time during a sermon, he said, that's when he
would bring it up. He would bring everybody's faults out
in sermons, even people's secrets. By God, that pissed. That
was awful. That was awful. But he would bring people's
secrets out into the open through a sermon.
Speaker 3 (01:02:50):
By name or everyone just knew who.
Speaker 1 (01:02:55):
Sometimes you didn't know if you were in the circle,
you knew the circle. But if you were in the circle,
you knew. But he would bring people out in the
open and stuff. But I was reading Timothy Keller at
the time and I was. I think I was reading
The Prodigal God, and I was really just fascinated with
this book because it was just all about unconditional love
(01:03:18):
and how you know, Christ fell about us and stuff
like that, and I was posting all the time. That's
what I just posted all the time with CRUs you know,
when I was part of Crusade, because I wanted to
share the Gospel and I wanted to share that part
of God that I loved. And he brought up that
(01:03:38):
you need to watch what you're posting on Facebook by
different individuals you don't know them personally, their life could
be in disarray, which was hilarious at the time because
I'm sure the Sasha thing, Matt, I really think the
(01:03:59):
Sasha thing. My oldest me we cleaned the church, Yeah,
we pretty much. That was my service to the church
was to clean. But when Jess brought that up about
the Facebook page, that was when I left and I
gave it to her because I didn't trust Sasha. She
(01:04:20):
would have used that for a weapon against people. And
I knew that for I knew that because she was
prone to that, she would use things for a weapon
against you. Later on, and now your dad was that
way too. I just didn't know it, but I just
didn't know about it because I didn't know about messages
(01:04:41):
that y'all were having as a family until I came out.
Speaker 2 (01:04:45):
Yeah, so two thousand and five kind of blueprint for
a lot of things you mentioned earlier, like the importance
of that feast IWO in that Sasha and her family
came in.
Speaker 1 (01:04:57):
I remember she came in. I remember her telling me
that I just wish I wasn't married where I could
hang out with you single ladies. And at that time,
I wanted to be married, but I knew that God
had to send him into the congregation. That's what you know,
(01:05:19):
It's kind of subtly undertones, you know, that's what was presented.
As a woman, since I was single, I would have
to go to your dad, and because I didn't have
a husband to go to to talk to about my questions,
so I'd have to go to your dad. And that
you know, if I ever had to talk to your dad,
(01:05:40):
your mom was always there. That real followed. Your mom
was always in the room, and she was there for
a witness. And that was every single lady that was
in our congregation. Yeah, because of that scripture, of the
appearance of evil.
Speaker 2 (01:06:01):
If you liked this episode of The Cult next Door,
please leave us a positive review in rating on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
or wherever you listen, and don't forget to subscribe to
be notified of new episodes.
The world tomorrow, The Worldwide Church of God presents Ribert
w Armstrong.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
And I'm here to bring you the truth.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
No one else is telling you the things that God
is telling you through me.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
He's speaking through me the Lord.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Let me experience what it is to be a new bride.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
You know, I'm not worried about what I'm about to say,
though it may be graphic. We're coming to the Lord
and if you.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Can take it, beyond the veil is the chamber. That's
the wedding chamber. The Lord told me that. Hello everyone,
and welcome back to the Colt Next Store Podcast. I
am Maddie Laster. Before we get started today, quick reminder,
go and follow us on our socials. TikTok. It's back,
so go follow us on TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, all that stuff.
(00:52):
We've got our Patreon. Speaking of our Patreon, want to
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shout out to Chase sinshanda shout out to David Brown,
shout out to Heather Bartlett, and new shout out to Carla.
Thank you all for supporting the podcast. You guys deserve
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(01:14):
Speaking of our Patreon, if any of you listeners want
to go support the podcast, we got a couple of
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Portion club or you can just do a regular I
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(01:36):
them to yourselves, just you know, bury it deep down inside.
But if you've got a five, please do share. Speaking
of five star reviews, I want to read one from
Cody mckg one. It says, if you have left a
high control situation and find yourself without community, this podcast
will help you feel less alone.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
In the world.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Thank you, Matthew Ashley and all of your guests for
your vulnerability transparency. You have made an impact on me,
and I'm sure there are many more who will find
a sense of being not the only one on this
type of journey. Thank you very much for that review.
Cody really appreciate that we love hearing these kind of
things from our listeners. It does more than you all know.
(02:19):
So today's episode, we talked to Brittany, who was a
former member of Crusade Church for a many many years.
I think we're talking just less than twenty long time.
So we talked about her time in Crusade Church, how
she came to even learn about the Crusade Church, what
it was like as a member, the Love move. We
talk about that a bit, and then eventually how she
(02:40):
found her way out of Crusade Church. So, without further ado,
here is Part one with Brittany. So, Brittany, how did
you even hear about Crusade and start coming in the
first place? Is it how long? What year did you
start coming?
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Two thousand and three? I believe, well my oldis said
it was like two thousand and two. We started like visiting.
I've always known that it's two thousand and three, long time.
That was when I was baptized into the church. The
first time that I met Jin, because she's a big
(03:18):
part of my story, she was she was working in
a classroom. She was just she was so funny. You
know she can't I mean, she's just that type of person.
She can entertain a crowd. Your sister can now. The
first time that I met her, I was like just
(03:39):
been popping in in and out classrooms and stuff. She
didn't say a word to me. But then we got
ended up in the same classroom and we were with
another individual, and her and your sister just hit it off.
And downtime was nap time, and so we'd get all
the kids to sleep and stuff, and we would just
talk and discuss. And I didn't really discuss my personal
(04:02):
life a lot. I talked about my girls, so she
knew that about me somehow. I'm sure I brought it
up to someone and JIN didn't know about that I
was living with a guy. I mean, it wasn't harsh
what she said to me. It was just I just
need to let you know that you're living in sin.
And I remember that I grew up in a home
(04:25):
and my mother was agnostic. We didn't go to church.
She believed in a creator. She doesn't know if it
was an alien that type of stuff. So I remember
talking to my mom and telling her about it, and
I said, well, that's just what her thoughts are. And
(04:45):
we worked well together in the classroom. She was just
I enjoyed working with Jennifer. We loved music. We always
had music playing in our classroom, so something happened and
they were throwing away y'all's literature, and I said something
to her. The girl and your sister started having a
(05:07):
Bible study I think at y'all's house.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Do you remember that, Yeah, And then you were talking
about like the literature. I think they were like leaving
tracks and other stuff like around facility, right.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
I don't know if that was Yeah, I don't know
which sister that was, but they were, and they would
leave them on the table and then other people would
stick them on top of the coke machine or throw
them away, and it was just ridiculous. The other girl
and your sister were having a Bible study, and my
oldest has a shunt and I had to take her
(05:45):
to children's for because and it always ended up that
she had to have a surgery, but they had prayed
and she had been healed. Something left an impression on me,
and that your sister didn't date. I think because she's
(06:06):
your sister's beautiful and she didn't date left an impression
on me. And I think that's one of the things,
you know, and just her character at work. She was
a hard worker. She was always going and always moving,
and our classroom moved well. I guess they went to
(06:29):
the mission trip, right, So.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Yeah, two thousand and oh we had two thousand and one, right,
it was like right after nine to eleven.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Yeah, so they went on that mission trip. And then
when she came back, she was in another room. The
other girl was in she became a therapist to think,
and then I was in another room. So we were separated,
and me and the guy broke up that I was
living with. And I always put this off that I
had to come out of sin for God to open
(07:00):
the door. I always did that with my testimony. But
I don't think that anymore. And I threw that out
the door. My daughter wanted to go to church. She
was crying in the library. She wanted to go to church.
There was all these things piling on me. And I
(07:21):
love my kids, I love my I love my girls.
And so the parent teacher conference, the teacher told me
she was crying in the library. And we visited other churches,
but it just didn't click. Your sister asked me if
I wanted to have a Bible study, and so I
started having Bible studies with her. And I don't think
(07:41):
that lasted too long. I don't know. But then I
ended up going to church the first time, and it
wasn't the church. It was on Detroit, but it wasn't
on Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
That's when we were like renting. It was a Sunday
church that we were renting on Saturday.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Yes, yeah, it was a Sunday church we were renting,
And so I went there. And the first time I
went there, I let an older lady that was part
of our congregation asked me afterwards if it was weird,
and I said, I said, it just it's just like
any other church, because I mean I attended ye, I mean,
(08:23):
now I know, but I attended churches before, but they
were like Assembly of God, so they were kind of
charismatic and stuff like that. So Crusade wasn't dropped to
the floor out of the spirit and running. So I
thought that was weird. It wasn't a red flag to me.
(08:45):
We kind of went through the motions and stuff, and
that's with Crusade. It was a charismatic church.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
What did you notice about Dad when you first came in?
Speaker 1 (08:58):
He was very He was very presentable, you know, in
a suit, and very nice and charming and very hospitable,
welcoming and stuff like that. He was very welcoming. I
don't think I always followed the way he wanted me
(09:20):
to follow, even at the beginning, because he wanted me
to be baptized quickly and I told him no so
and he was perturbed. But I just kind of I
don't know why I didn't see it at the time.
I think I was just so into I was already
(09:42):
into that truth, you know that, because I did so
much research. I'm that type of person. I just fixate
on that. And then when I start researching and all
this stuff, all this stuff comes up on the internet,
because at that time we had the Internet, but it
was like up at my house, and so I was
(10:03):
researching things, and I was reading the Bible and scripture
after scripture and stuff like that, and it all pointed
to what he was talking about. That's what I focused on.
And so when he acted out, I think I just
pushed all that ship aside, I think and that that
was just a bad thing to do. But I didn't
(10:28):
see it until I came out of it. How controlled
I was, because he always said that, well, you have
the freedom to do what you want.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Yeah, I don't tell anybody what to do.
Speaker 4 (10:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Yeah, that was whenever the He told me that several times.
I'm not I don't tell anybody what to do, but
he really did tell you what to do.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
I'm not going to tell you what to do, but here's
what you gotta do.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
Yeah, serious consequences if you don't.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Yeah, well you don't. You don't. You don't see those
consequences until your shunned. That's one thing I want to
put up front. I've forgiven most people because I've been
through therapy and we just didn't have the tools to
see it. I don't have any hard feelings about things.
It's just I know that that relationship probably won't go anywhere.
(11:20):
But if I see her in a if I see
any your sister, I see her in Kroger, I'll say
hi to her now. Yeah, but I had to work
through that. I had a lot of aggression towards her
and stuff, and it mainly dealt with my children. I'm
still struggling with your dad. Every time I see that
(11:42):
truck that looks like his, that rises up in me.
And I still have a problem with Sasha and al.
I want to call her Ali because my children. I
have a sister named Alex. Yeah, So is that okay?
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Yeah, that's fine, Okay, everybody listening. Ali is Alex for
this zop.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
They did so much harm together, those three, and Ali
is she's a young person, and I and if she
does listen to this at all, I just pray. I mean,
I just want her to get help. I mean she
needs to be in counseling of some kind, you know.
And if the other two are listening, they need to
be in counseling too. Your dad, I would go over
(12:34):
to your house and stay till three o'clock in the
morning just talking, yeah to your dad about scripture and
he was so knowledgeable, right, But I didn't know any
other faith really in their doctrine. I didn't know. I
was coming into this as a person that was raised agnostic.
(12:54):
But I seeked knowledge, you know. I wanted I remember
telling my mom that I was going to go to
college to figure out this biblical thing that's over here.
So I seeked that. I wanted the knowledge and stuff,
and Crusade gave it. So I think that's what was
so impressionable to me. And the community. I've never had
(13:23):
a community, I guess, and I had just left of
relationship and I didn't really have anyone but my mom
and I had my exes, my girl's grandparents, which were
(13:43):
they showed that was my girl's life. Best was then
because they believed in unconditional love and they showed it
continually to them. So I my children were in a
separate household, so I was divorced, and so they would
(14:05):
go to their dad's, you know, on the weekend, and
they would go to but really it was their grandparents.
And so here are these people and I throw this
at them. I don't know. I was working at the
(14:25):
preschool and everything was okay. When I was dating, I
was living with this guy and everything. And then you
know that scripture where it's, well, I was thrown at
us a lot that you will be persecuted. That was
thrown a lot at me at the beginning, because I
was going through it. I was going through it at work.
(14:47):
I was going through it with people that were at work,
and they were telling me that it was a cult.
And then and then the grandparents were as they were
telling her that I was going in and so, and
she was really into the holidays and everything like that,
and then it just like she was freaking freaking out.
(15:10):
I knew her since I was sixteen, because that's when
I started dating her son, and so she was like
a second mom to me. The grandfather said, we're going
to do what we're going to do, and that's it.
Like they were going to keep Christmas and Halloween and
all that stuff. We're still keeping it, and you have
(15:31):
no control over that, and so and I didn't. So
my children lived in a different environment than y'all did
when all that was going on. Your dad just kind
of took me under his wing, and I would go
over there upset about it, and you know these people,
and he pretty much would give me the story about
(15:52):
your grandparents.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
Right.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
I think he preached I think he preached on that
a lot during that time.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
And like what what did he say?
Speaker 1 (16:05):
He just basically he said that they had to make
a stand, that this was the way it was going
to be, and our children weren't going to keep the
holidays and if you can't follow the rules with it,
we're presenting this to you, and this is how our family.
We're following God first, this is what's happening in our life. Basically,
(16:27):
like you wouldn't go and celebrate Christmas, you wouldn't put
yourself in that situation. That was for That was what
we were told. Like I remember struggling taking a Christmas
bonus at work.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Yeah, yeah, I was. I would be praying, like, please workplace,
make it a holiday or end of the year bonus,
because if it says Christmas the thing.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Ah, I can't take it. And then if it and
then if you were found out that you took the
Christmas bonus, oh my god blood. It was, yes, but
that that was I think that's how I remember it.
I don't remember all of it, Ashley. They pretty much
that you couldn't interact with your grandparents.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
I know his parents moved to Conway, which is just,
you know, not that far, but enough removed that they
weren't in town anymore where it was easy to see them.
And I don't know the details, but there was a
point at which we just stopped seeing them. I know
I was close to them, or at least to Dad's
(17:37):
mother when I was little, but then there's this like
massive gap in my childhood where I have really almost
no memories of them at all, and there was no
longer a closeness. And then she passed away when I
was seventeen. So I always thought that was like she
(17:57):
and Dad had a difficult relationship they but it had
and I thought it was probably that, like he he's
unable to he's unable to compromise or make peace with people.
It's like, it's my way, and if you can't fall
in with me, then there's nothing. And I just assumed
(18:19):
as I got older, Oh, that's probably what it was.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Yes, I'm pretty sure that's what it is, because that's
the way. I mean, later down the road, it's his way.
You know. I saw that, but I didn't. I couldn't
really see it until I came out of it. I
guess because your dad somewhat betrayed himself as being reasonable.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
Yeah, but you know, he's very he was always very,
very skillful at presenting scriptures in a weaponized way that
didn't feel weaponized in the moment. And it's very hard
when you are in a discussion with him. It's hard
(19:06):
to not be pulled in to that with him. I
think he is so well versed in the Bible he
can pull out any scripture to support what his agenda is.
I mean to the point of you know, separating us, yeah,
(19:27):
from family members, because he with with Mom's parents. I mean,
they were very grieved, but they they took a different approach.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
You know.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
I think Dad and his own mom had their own
struggles growing up and they definitely butted heads, and so
she probably challenged him on all of this, whereas grit My,
you know, Mom's parents, I don't think really provided much
of a challenge to it, because at that point they
kind of knew who Dad was, and they were like,
(20:00):
we're going to lose our daughter. And you know, I
think I was the only one maybe Sarah was born
at the time when they came into the World Wide
Church of God. But we're going to lose our daughter
and our grandchildren, and so we just have to be
quiet and bear this. And that's what they did, or
else I don't think that we would have been able
(20:21):
to have a relationship with them.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
And they did up until everything that happened with you.
I remember, I won't get into the whole thing, but
the kind of the meeting where grandma and Granddad came
to the house and it was kind of like the
final butting of the heads that and that's where we
had a gap where like we did not see them
for years. But yeah, I mean, looking back at it now,
(20:44):
even though I was younger, like they definitely like they
knew what they were dealing with as much as you could,
but they were just trying to like keep it in check.
But then when Dad did what he did with you,
it's like, how do you and they could not swallow
that where it's just like you're not going to be
on this at all.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
But even then they were still willing to have a
relationship and just not talk about it, but have one
with me, and have one with mom and Dad and
the rest of you. But the you know, obviously I
wasn't there, but what Granddad and Grandma told me later
was that, you know, they were told there would be
(21:21):
no forgiveness. Those were the words because having a relationship
with me, and because Granddad walked me down the aisle
to you know, at my wedding to Kurt that he
you know, and they wrote that in letters to me too,
like you know, we were I think somebody wrote, deprived
(21:42):
of of getting to have this experience with our firstborn child,
and I just thought that was yours that you threw away.
It's like you chose not to be there and participate.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
Like I don't know if you guys have seen that
meme it's like a cartoon meme uh two panels where
it's just somebody riding a bike and then they stick
a stick in their front wheel and crash, and then
the next frame is like, why did so and so
do that? That's what this reminds me of, Like they
did it to themselves, and they're like, why did you
do this to us? You did it? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (22:16):
Yeah, So Grandad and Grandma left there feeling just devastated
and defeated. And it wasn't just mom and Dad. The
siblings were. Some of the siblings were involved in that
conversation and were some of the harshest critics of their
character for doing that, and so they just felt like
(22:38):
at that point, like they lost everything, you know. I
think they still tried, but it was so strained.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
It was just yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
And my granddad, he told me before he died. They
were they got up, this is on a Sunday after church,
and they tried to have this conversation and it went south,
you know, and it was there's nothing else to be said.
And they got up and they were at the door leaving,
(23:10):
and Granddad turned around and said to Dad, Larry, I
tried to take you under my wing.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Son, I remember you remember. I can see it. I
can like play it like a videotape in my mind
right now, like I remember that. And then when Granddad left,
like Dad was just laughing it off, like what does
that mean type thing? So of course you don't know
what that means. Like no, remember that.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
No one would take your dad, and he was like
the top, top dog.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
But Dad goes to show that this pathology was there
so early because Mom and Dad got married at ages
seventeen and eighteen. And you know, I was born when
Dad was twenty years old, and even then, like Granda,
just to quick aside, Granddad tells a story of when
(24:05):
I was born. I lived with Mom with Granddad and
Grandma for like two or three weeks. Dad did not
see me. He was like out in the woods finding
God or some there's some weird story about this.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
I don't I'm not trying as no slant. I just
I thought that was.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
I don't even know probably. And so then so then
like weeks later, like I'm being brought home, you know,
which was hard for Grandad and Grandma. They just like
wanted to keep us there. Granddad and Grandma like brought
us home and Dad had a German Shepherd big dog,
and Mom had me in my carrier and she didn't
(24:48):
want the dog in the room because she was afraid,
you know, I'm a newborn. And Dad is like, no,
it's fine, and Mom was like no, Larry, you know,
like I I don't feel comfortable. I don't you know,
want the dog in here. And Dad just kept like refusing,
saying no, and our granddad like, I don't know, you
(25:10):
probably met him, yes, like the kindest, most gentle person
I've ever met in my life, Like you cannot imagine,
Like he doesn't stand up for himself usually, or he didn't,
and it's alwa's so like peacekeeping. And he just said, Larry,
(25:30):
get that damn dog out of this house now, which
is like the one and only time he ever stood
up to Dad. But Dad did it, oh, which I
was like, Okay, there was still like maybe some time
for him to not turn into a full blown narcissist,
(25:52):
but he did it. But you know, there were other
things where Grandad tried to help him, but his egos
like enormous. It's like there's no way he's gonna take help.
But anyway, that was kind of a little bit of
that back history, granted, and Grandma.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
He was very proud of, like the band thing. You remember,
he'd bring that.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Up in sermons, Do I remember, Yeah, Yeah, I had
a recording contract with Casino Records.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
Yes, yeah, we still want to know. How can we
find out if that's true, because of course we bought it.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
But now I'm just.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
Like, well, I know, he just says all kinds of things,
like maybe maybe that didn't happen.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
It would be so cool if you could find some
of his classmates and interview them on how your dad
is in high school.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
Maybe a record shop next to a casino tried to
hire him, and then it turned into Casino Records try
to give me a record contract. We'll never know.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
I mean, he was very talented. We have to give
him that, like definitely could have. But yeah, I just
don't know. Did he Yeah yeah, I mean he said
he turned it down.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
Yeah, because of the Lord the Sabbath.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
At the end. Yeah, and that was always brought to everyone. Yeah,
and that went to you, you could lose your job.
You need to find a different job. You don't break
the Sabbath.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
So many people lost their jobs going to the feast.
I remember that so many people being at the feast
knowing they didn't have a job or income to come
back to after ten days or whatever it was with travel.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
Yeah, I mean I had let I had moved to
working in a preschool, so I didn't have to worry
about that. But I remember Jessica's stepdad did, right, he
had to. Yeah, yeah, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
We had a couple or more people that either lost
their jobs or you know, essentially had to leave because
they weren't going to be given h the time for
the feast, you know.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Yeah, you couldn't be baptized unless you were there, like
like you were going to be committed. Well, that was
a lot of that's a lot of things that I regret.
I witnessed to people about this and and I've really
didn't I'm at first I was like dead hard, you know,
the Sabbath and stuff like that. But then once I
(28:25):
I just I had relatives. I had a great aunt
and she was a Christian, and I knew she was
a Christian. She kept Sunday and everything, and I started
spending more time with family, and that kind of knocked
me out of that. I would still say that the
Sabbath is a blessing that's there missing out of But
I didn't think that it was a condemning thing. But
(28:48):
I kept I kept that ship to myself.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
I don't think you're condemned, mean, but you probably are.
Speaker 3 (28:55):
But part of the thing was the scripture that says
the Sabbath, she'll be a sign between me and my
people or something to that effect. And so I know
that was always used like, well, like you're not even considered,
you know, a Christian if you aren't keeping that, and
then you know, then it gets even more minute after
(29:15):
that about exactly what you believe and what group you're in.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Yeah. Well, I mean once I came out of it
and stuff, my Otis lived with me, and so we
were kind of like bouncing stuff off of each other.
And like in the in the New Testament, like there
are people that are godly that weren't keeping the Sabbath,
like they were doing things on the Sabbath, even work,
(29:43):
and God was not condemning them. My my Otis kind
of went off and researched worldwide.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
When like early on or reset no.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
No, no, well, like you know when she left that
first time, she was she was pulling all kinds of
shit off the internet, like the newsletters and stuff. You know,
he's pulling all of it. And she met the last
she needed the last newsletter for Worldwide where that split
(30:20):
where they started keeping Sunday and stuff. She needed that
last one. But the secret one. It wasn't the It
wasn't the one that they gave to the people of Worldwide.
It was the one that your dad would talk about.
And he would say that they were telling the people
one thing, but they were telling us who were in
service another thing. That's what I remember. I mean, I'm
(30:43):
not certain on all this, matt And actually because I
get things confused.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
But did he talk very much about Herbert Armstrong?
Speaker 1 (30:53):
So I would think I read a lot of script
I read a lot of Christian writers, you know C. S. Lewis.
I think your dad like introduced me to him. Mere
Christianity was like one of my first reads and stuff.
But Herbert Armstrong and all the Sabbath keeping churches, he
would say they were dead. Yeah, he would pretty much
(31:14):
cut that off, and that they didn't believe in the spirit.
They didn't believe that like in prophecy and this, that
and the other, and that's what we believed, and they
didn't believe in worship, which is a big thing of Crusade,
was worship that. I mean that if we y'all wouldn't
have done that live band, I don't know if I
(31:35):
would have been pulled in so strong, because that was
one of the things that pulled me in was the music.
And that's one of the things I love was music.
And I remember that was such a hard hard thing
to leave. Was our band.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
Yeah, signet well, and I think too on the band part,
Like it's not that we were a particularly good band
or anything, but for our background, we certainly were. Like
when people would come to the feast, like that was
a big focal point for people like, oh they've got
a full worship band, and it's not just all hymns
(32:13):
because people of our background that they did not do that.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
Yeah, like we had visited other churches. Yeah yeah, yeah
it was just hymns or or it was the blue book, Yeah,
Armstrong music. So that's in every one of them.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
So you were I guess what you were trying to
say is like that was one of the things that
like pulled you in. So you've talked about the band
kind of being a draw. What were some of the
other things like after you you know, started coming and
like you talked a little bit about your baptism that
were drawing you further in and like.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
Keeping you just connections with y'all. You know, at the beginning,
I had a connection with the Lasttter family. I guess
you know, you know, Jin was me under her wing
and stuff like that, and it just felt good. I
don't remember when it happened, but like my youngest, I
(33:11):
remember just having someone to talk to, talking to your
mom about parental things, like she could she could cry,
and I remember she got in trouble and she was
just crying and screaming in the room and I called
your mom because I just couldn't. I couldn't deal because
you know, you find out a lot about yourself when
(33:33):
you start researching and stuff, and I would get overstimulated.
And I'm just that type of person. Now we're earplugs
when I have to deal with certain noises and stuff.
But I couldn't deal with it as a single parent,
and I had no one to turn to because I
because my you know, my my mom was she just
(33:58):
let me do whatever. You know, I didn't have rules
as a teenager really or as a kid. I don't
remember getting a lot of spankings for my mom. I
was just I called and then your sister stepped in
and she said, go give her the phone. And that's
(34:19):
all I had to do, is I gave my child
this phone and she said whatever to her? Oh, she said,
do you want me to come over there? You better stop.
And it's all she had to do and it stopped
the crying.
Speaker 3 (34:35):
But of course you your kid is gonna listen to
someone else. They don't know what the other person.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
Will or won't do, won't do. Yes, yes, you know.
Speaker 3 (34:42):
That's just like normal for kids to behave differently with
their parents than with someone else anyway.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
So just the draw that I have some assistance, I
guess that was part of it. I guess in my
community because I I leaned on that that they would
help me with my kids and that they had someone
to look up to, I guess. And but I gave
(35:13):
that and that's one of the one of the things
that I regret the most. And I came out of
that per se a little bit before I left the church,
like because it started the policing with the boys twenty
fifteen at the feast, so Blake's brother was there. Then
(35:36):
two new guys showed up and they were younger, right,
So I guess the little girls in our congregation were
having a game who would hug Blake's brother the most.
I don't know, so I didn't know about this. No
(35:57):
one confronted me about this at the feast, and I
don't know how it got back to your sisters, but
it did. I'm sure I know. I'm sure it was Sasha,
and I'm sure it was Ali because she would because
I babysit it, so she would get her brother into trouble,
like one time she got him into trouble, but she
(36:19):
was instigating it, like she would instigate him and he
finally blew his top, and so she would come crying
to me, Well, I'm not like her mom. And I
know that her brother told her several times to leave
her alone. And I said, well, you go to time out.
She goes, why am I going to time out? And
(36:39):
I'm like, because you instigated it, go sit down. And
then I got on to the brother. But that continued
with her, So I'm sure that that was instigated by her.
I don't think it was instigated by anyone else that
with the younger girls. I don't think so.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
So.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
So after the fees, we got pulled into the nurse.
Was it the nursery at the time. Did we have
babies at the time or was it still.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
Called twenty fifteen. I don't think we did.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
Didn't have babies.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
Yeah, where you go to go and get down trouble? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (37:15):
Were you goingt in trouble? I guess it went the
lasted lounge. It was the music room.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yep, at the glass door so everyone
could see that you were getting ripped the shreds.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
Yep. So we went in there as parents, all the
single moms that were there, And that was brought to
my attention, and I said, and I knew my kid,
I said, my kid didn't do that. My youngest was
friends with Ali and another young girl in the church.
(37:48):
They were all friends, well they were the youngest, and
they would spend the night at Sasha's house and apparently
they weren't cleaning up their mess, and she didn't come
to me as a parent. She went to your sisters.
So that was brought up in that meeting, something about
I think dishwashing, that we were washing dishes too much
(38:13):
that I remember I don't know, I'm off topic. I
think again.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
We need to come back to that though, the dishwashing issue.
But no, I think where we got off as I
was asking you about things that that drew you in
and kind of kept you crusading. You were talking about
like the being able to talk to mom and yeah,
and like the help because you were at that point
in time to single mother, like all of that.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
Yeah, so okay, so that was the draw was that
was the music, and your mom was a big draw.
Your mom she was so sweet, and your dad was
you know, charismatic and he did a lot of scripture
and stuff. And I was seeking knowledge and just the
fact that I had a community because I didn't have one.
So that was the big draw to me. I think
(39:00):
that was why. And my girls the first feast, my
girls loved it. My girls loved it and it was
just us, you know, and my youngest.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
What year would that have been that feast?
Speaker 1 (39:13):
I think that was two thousand and three, okay, because
my girls were little. My youngest was little, she was
four yeah yeah, and called her slow yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
Well Bow from Monsters Inc. Because she like bo she
was that the girl's name. Sorry, yeah, she liked.
Speaker 1 (39:36):
Lou Shelby Showbow, but it had to do with that.
She hated it. She hated it. She's like, why are
they called me this?
Speaker 2 (39:46):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (39:47):
And I said, it's just a nickname.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
It's okay, the term of endearment. I didn't know.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
She hated it, hated it. But she ended up hating
her name too. So that first feast, we had lots
of kids. You know, well you were young, you're really young,
and yeah, yeah, Chelsea was there, and the young lady
(40:16):
that we're about their age, she was there with her family.
So that was a lot of kids for a feast.
And my kids loved it. They just loved it. And
they just you know, and my oldest I always assumed
my oldest wanted to learn. And she was over at
(40:41):
my house and we were discussing this before. It was
not last I think it was last weekend or the
weekend before, but she was over there over here for
I said, I just need someone to talk to. You
got to come over here and talk to me and stuff,
because they're not living with me now. I was having
a hard day, and so she came over when I
(41:03):
could talk, and we talked about things, and I said
and I read her when I sent you, and I
started thinking about something that I wrote, and there was well,
we visited two other churches. But she didn't like it
because she wasn't learning. And I was like, well, that's
just weird. Jasmine was six, she was six years old,
(41:25):
I think or seven when we started, right and I said,
that's weird, I said, and then I backtracked and you
put logic in there. It's because we visited other churches.
That's why she wanted to go back to church because
I stopped going. But that was talking to her, and
she said, no, you're right, mom, And I'm like, I said,
(41:47):
what do you mean? She goes because her cousin, her
step cousin, was asking her, every time you went to church,
what'd you learn at Sunday School? And when we were
going to these churches, they were giving her color and
sheets and she was watching finding Nebo and stuff. She
was like, I didn't learn jack shit from these churches.
He's off telling her all, uh, I learned about Joseph's
(42:09):
coat and this, that and the other, and so she's
not learning anything. And she goes, you're right, because she
wanted to talk about it to him, who was her friend.
So Jasmine did want to learn. That was part of
the draw in the crusade. That was part of their thing.
They had knowledge. Your dad had that he had knowledge.
Speaker 3 (42:33):
Well, that was a point of pride in the Worldwide
Church of God is you know, we don't just give
these emotional thirty minute you know, hype messages. We're these
are lectures. We're learning, We're getting our notebooks out, we're
highlighting yes and we are We've got Josiphas over here
(42:59):
in a Lexi con over on the other side, and
like we're looking at what every word means in Greek
and Hebrew and so yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
So that was my draw. That was what I wanted.
That was whenever I was talking to my mom, that
was what I wanted. I wanted that, I wanted the
I wanted the research part of it because I'm that
type of person. So m and so when that happened,
and it didn't last thirty like I visited other churches,
(43:32):
didn't last thirty minutes, it lasted multiple hours. And then
you had a potluck and you could discuss it more.
And then and then after that you had women's study,
so you're discussing even more. You know, so that was
the draw and I'm still that way. So I have
to grill that in sometimes because I'll get focused on
(43:53):
one thing and I'll fixate on it, but I'm like, Okay,
I need to put that aside for a little while.
So that's that was my draw to them, is that.
And my kids loved it. You know, they had children's
study I think at the time, and your sisters were
part of that, and it was and they made it.
(44:15):
I don't think it was. I don't think they were harsh.
I don't think at that time. And I was trying
to talk to Jess about some of this, like when
that started, that the policing started. She said, it's oh,
it was always there for them, But I guess it
was a certain age. So I wasn't aware of anything
(44:36):
like that. And I was coming into it and I
was so focused on studying and research and all that stuff.
There was an issue that I was stumbling over something.
You know, I had feelings for someone and i'd brought
it to your debt, to your sister's attention. It was
Sarah and she she was very soft spoken to me,
(44:58):
but I didn't know that it would reach out to
everybody else. I still think I remember when they did
this single, like the we had to fill out a
worksheet and what you what you were? We filled out
this I have I should have found it, but I
forgot about it until just now. But it was like
to who would you want as a partner? Do you
(45:22):
remember that? And like you filled out I have that
somewhere saved somewhere, I mean put in some book, I'm sure,
but it was like questions, like you would ask yourself
that who you would want your helpmate, crap and everything,
(45:43):
But it wasn't it was I don't know. And that
was another thing that was we as women. And that's
not just in Crusade. That's in multiple churches and that is.
Speaker 3 (45:55):
That's another society at large.
Speaker 1 (45:59):
Except and my mother was very independent and she would
That's probably why I didn't ever listen to your dad.
But and I was he told when my daughter, my
oldest daughter, started questioning things, when he was being like
things were contradicting in the scriptures and stuff. Jaz remembers
(46:20):
a lot of crap like scriptures because she was so
she would sit there and listen. The youngest slept through
the whole thing and until she was ten. I think
she was still sleeping.
Speaker 3 (46:34):
She was ten.
Speaker 1 (46:37):
And the few and I got confronted about it by
one of your sisters that she needs to be waking
up taking it.
Speaker 3 (46:46):
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (46:48):
But so I was somewhat of a different parent though
I was strict. I was a strict parent that I
harped on that scripture about authority, and I wish I
wouldn't have harped on that scripture like I did, because
children have voices too, and they don't need that in
their head, especially if someone puts them in inappropriate situations
(47:12):
and they're uncomfortable. They should have that right to say
I don't want to hug you.
Speaker 3 (47:17):
Absolutely, you know.
Speaker 1 (47:19):
But that was my draw was the knowledge, and it
was pride. I'm I'm I'm a I think that I
don't know. I think that I have a problem. I
had a problem with that before I went into Crusade,
and man, I'm sure that increased when I came at
the beginning.
Speaker 2 (47:37):
Just you mean like the pride of having the knowledge,
having the special place, that kind of thing. Yeah, I
think we definitely just as a church, and that definitely
goes back to Worldwide two. Like that pride of being
in the end group, which is kind of like a
hallmark of occult like you know, you know, they don't
(47:58):
type of thing. Yeah, you know, even if you in
your mind would say, well, I'm not above them, you
think you are, Like I remember feeling that way with
cool workers. Like I wouldn't like think that exact thought,
but I did think that I was better than them
because I was actually doing what the amendment said and
I was doing this or that. You know, we had
(48:18):
that really ingrained for years, you know.
Speaker 1 (48:21):
We did, and he would, but he would That's why
your dad kind of he would preach that this isn't
their last chance because that's a hard thing to digest,
that your family's going to hell. Yeah, so he would
say they would have a second chance. The books weren't
open to them at this time, but God will reopen
(48:44):
the books to them, you know, at the judgment.
Speaker 2 (48:49):
And then they might go to hell.
Speaker 1 (48:51):
And then they might go to hell if they refused it,
you know, but then you're not going to remember who
they are. I think it was one thing I remember.
I know, the music was a big draw and that
was a big thing for me because it still is
part of my life. That's I love going. That's why
(49:14):
I love y'all's area because of the concerts and stuff.
Speaker 2 (49:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:18):
Yeah, but it's hard for me now because everyone's moved.
I mean, I lost my community. I left kind of
before everyone else. I mean, my daughter, I had her
i otis, but when I left, it was hard because
(49:38):
I was losing everything I was. That's why I'm so
glad y'all did this, especially because actually your testimony stuff,
it rings so true. Sorry to my heart because you lost,
you lost your whole. I can't imagine. I mean, I
(50:00):
had someone. My oldest left first. She left first, but
she was researching it, and.
Speaker 3 (50:08):
She was like, this isn't right.
Speaker 1 (50:09):
He's contradicting it, and he's going back to worldwide. Mom,
he's going back to worldwide and stuff. She goes, because
I've read the papers. I've read the papers and i'm reading,
I'm reading. I found this and I just she researched it,
you know, And she said, and a lot of doctrine
that we would preach, like the British Israelite thing, that
(50:33):
that doctrine is really racist. And I was fair and yeah,
and I didn't never put it that way. I always but
in spiritual you know, when we're out of our bodies.
So I didn't really put it that way, but then
when I came out, I saw how racist it was.
And it's so devastating because you have these people that
(50:55):
are different races that are going to Church of God
churches and they still believe this shit and they know
it's racist because because my oldest brought it up in
one of the other churches, she goes, well, that's just
a racist doctrine. The pastor saw my daughter's expression when
(51:15):
he brought it up, I guess, and he asked her
about it, which is good. I think is a It
was a good thing. But he asked her about it
and she said, well, I believe that's a racist doctrine.
And it's one of the other individuals, which is such
a sweet man, and he is biracial. He said it is.
(51:37):
I'm so glad to hear that. I'm so glad to
hear the youth, the in the youth that's coming up.
I'm so glad to hear that and stuff. And I'm thinking,
this gentleman has been in this congregationbobly most of his
life and he's had to deal with this doctrine, this
racist doctrine. And it's not just in it's just not
(51:57):
in worldwide, it's in other ones. When we came out,
my daughter came out first, my oldest, and then I
left And that was the hardest thing to do.
Speaker 4 (52:07):
Because I had to leave my youngest and I saw
it for what it was, though it took me forever.
Speaker 1 (52:17):
But because from January when I had that first meeting
with your when I had that meeting with your dad,
I didn't leave till June, and I was still corresponding
with your dad, Matt somewhat. I mean not like I was,
but I was still I was still sending tith I
(52:37):
think in offerings. But then when I started visiting other
churches and realizing what it was and everything, I stopped
doing that.
Speaker 2 (52:49):
But before we jump into your like you were talking
about leaving and losing your community, I know obviously there's
lots of time in between, you know, your first few
years and leaving. Is there anything of note before things
really started to heat up that you wanted to touch
(53:09):
on between you know, those early years, and I guess
twenty eighteen nineteen, anything like that.
Speaker 1 (53:16):
The next year, you remember that next Feast two thousand
and five was a big year, because that's when Sasha
comes into the picture.
Speaker 2 (53:23):
I think that's right.
Speaker 1 (53:25):
Yeah, that's her first feast. She was buried at the time,
and I remember the first one of the first things
she said to me because we all of us single
ladies were in a that's when we all had to
like bunk up together and stuff, and so we were
up like a crazy amounts of hours. I remember her.
(53:49):
Something happened and we had seen some spiritual things. And
that's where I struggle now, like I've seen things, I've
seen things and everything, and what what was that? And
how do I explain that to my psyche? So I
(54:09):
have to deal with that? And I was I don't
think I was appointed a prophetess at that time. I
don't know when that happened. It was when we moved
to that to the church that it is now.
Speaker 2 (54:23):
Yeah, which I'm glad you brought that up because I
have that's kind of a strange thing to think about asking.
But you know, we had people in the church that
were appointed like prophets or prophetess is like you were
appointed a prophetess at some point, like you said, I
don't know if it was by this year.
Speaker 1 (54:42):
Yeah, but Yeah, it was a strange. It was strange
to me.
Speaker 2 (54:48):
I guess what do you.
Speaker 1 (54:51):
Are?
Speaker 2 (54:52):
You able to make heads or tails of that? Now?
Speaker 1 (54:56):
Your dad caught me a barometer because I would feel
things and I couldn't. I don't. I don't know. I
still feel things like at this rush that goes through
and I don't know what that is. I don't have
a clue. I don't know if that's from God or
if it's from somebody. Well, I don't have a clue.
But I don't know if your dad knew that at
the time. I was a young Christian when he appointed
(55:17):
me a prophet is and it was after a worship
service and we were in where that was before we
met in the sanctuary. We were still listening to CDs,
but we used to listen to a CD, A worship
Wow she CD.
Speaker 2 (55:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (55:38):
He pulled me aside and he told me that God
told him that I was appointed a prophetess. And I
don't know why that happened that night. I don't remember
before what happened and stuff. And I said, uh, and
it was part of my face because my face is
(56:00):
I might not understand what you're talking about, and my
face reads whatever that I'm thinking usually got me in
a lot of trouble a lot of times. I of course,
what I did when I got home was what the
hell is the prophet is? What the hell am I
supposed to do? And I fixated on it, and I
(56:21):
would pray usually whenever before I would pray, and I
would flip open the Bible and it opened to Jeremiah
chapter one, and it talked about a prophet. I still
didn't understand what a prophet was, I don't think until
I really came out. But he the next day did
(56:43):
the same chapter, like chapter one of Jeremiah, like one
through nine or ten or something like that, and I
something about Cole. Do you remember this? Something about Cole.
So he touched my lips and he prayed over and
he touched my lips, and I remember, yeah, yeah, and stuff.
(57:05):
It was just with us, you know, hands, and and
then after that I was prophetess and you being a woman,
you're not like a man, and you have to wear
covering over your head whenever you give that. And then
of course Dad, and of course Dad, he was the
only prophet, he was the only man. Yeah, I heard
from God, which.
Speaker 2 (57:25):
Yeah, that's a good point. I don't. I'm trying to remember.
I don't want to misremember, but I don't think during
the whole Crusade church experience that there was another profit
male prophet that I can recall.
Speaker 1 (57:39):
I remember writing people and stuff like that, and I
took that to heart. That was probably a pride issue.
You know, your dad probably knew you know people, He
knew that he I don't know, he just he knew
how to read people. I think your dad just knew
(58:00):
that and everything. And so I would talk to your
dad a lot. I would say that I would hear
things and I would talk to him, or I would
I would have dreams, you know, and I would talk
to him about it.
Speaker 3 (58:17):
When you say that you've seen things, like what's an
example of that something that you've seen that you still
don't know what that was or makes it hard to
reconcile everything that happened.
Speaker 1 (58:32):
That Feast of two thousand and five, Me and another lady,
an older lady that was in the congregation, and it
was just I guess the ones that were in my
cabin type thing were outside worshiping. We were just listening
to music and we were worshiping, and I saw one
of the trees and they were like burning, but they
(58:54):
weren't burning, kind of like Moses. And I don't know
what that is. You know something in your psyche when
people say things my instigate stuff. Yeah, yeah, some of
this I think was because that it linked to pride.
You know, I don't know how the brain works and
(59:15):
stuff like that and everything, and some could have been
instigated by a sermon or I could just be crazy,
but it could have been what we're reading. I instigated it.
And that's where I'm at right now. And I don't
believe that I'm a prophetest because I haven't predicted the
(59:37):
future and I don't believe that anymore. But it's hard.
I just don't know how to explain. Well, there's sometimes
that I feel like dear music. I kind of know
now because I know that music, like there's different wave
links and stuff like that, and they put things to
(59:57):
make you emotional. So I've kind of put it in
that thing because I heard that. I felt that a
lot we're worshiping like that rush, you know, that tingly
type thing. I feel it like rush through my body. Yeah,
And I don't know how to explain that or why
that happens. To me, but it does, so I that's
(01:00:19):
what I kind of blow that off ass, But I
still believe that there's creator. I'm kind of back to
where my mom was, you know, and I know that
there's a right and a wrong. But I think it's
more to me now is do no harm. Do no
(01:00:41):
harm to people, you know, treat them with kindness. That's
where our churches need to be. I read a book
that really moved me away from what we were doing,
and I started listening to Timothy Keller, which pissed off
your dad so bad, and I started reading his books.
I was reading a lot because I didn't understand. I
(01:01:03):
was feeling all this unworthiness and I was feeling I
couldn't do anything right, and I was feeling hatred towards
my brothers and sisters and the Lord. And when you
come to passover and you're feeling that, holy shit, it's
scary as hell.
Speaker 3 (01:01:23):
Oh yeah. We talked about that, I think with Chelsea.
Speaker 1 (01:01:27):
Yeah, that is the scariest. Your dad made that so
fearful that you could die or you were going to
be sick or something deficutating. Yeah. Yeah. And the first
passover I went to after was at a different congregation,
and he said, we mess up. Even though you mess up,
(01:01:49):
the Lord wants you here. He wants you here like
an unconditional love top thing. And that was the first
time I think your dad would say that. But they're undertones.
He would always bring that scripture back in, you know,
he would say that, Oh, there's grace, there's grace. But
(01:02:10):
it was a facade. There wasn't grace. We didn't have it.
I would listen to different things, and we were all
connected on Facebook, so there was no secrets, and I
posted everything that I read and your dad hated it.
He hated it.
Speaker 3 (01:02:25):
What did he say about it?
Speaker 1 (01:02:28):
One time during a sermon, he said, that's when he
would bring it up. He would bring everybody's faults out
in sermons, even people's secrets. By God, that pissed. That
was awful. That was awful. But he would bring people's
secrets out into the open through a sermon.
Speaker 3 (01:02:50):
By name or everyone just knew who.
Speaker 1 (01:02:55):
Sometimes you didn't know if you were in the circle,
you knew the circle. But if you were in the circle,
you knew. But he would bring people out in the
open and stuff. But I was reading Timothy Keller at
the time and I was. I think I was reading
The Prodigal God, and I was really just fascinated with
this book because it was just all about unconditional love
(01:03:18):
and how you know, Christ fell about us and stuff
like that, and I was posting all the time. That's
what I just posted all the time with CRUs you know,
when I was part of Crusade, because I wanted to
share the Gospel and I wanted to share that part
of God that I loved. And he brought up that
(01:03:38):
you need to watch what you're posting on Facebook by
different individuals you don't know them personally, their life could
be in disarray, which was hilarious at the time because
I'm sure the Sasha thing, Matt, I really think the
(01:03:59):
Sasha thing. My oldest me we cleaned the church, Yeah,
we pretty much. That was my service to the church
was to clean. But when Jess brought that up about
the Facebook page, that was when I left and I
gave it to her because I didn't trust Sasha. She
(01:04:20):
would have used that for a weapon against people. And
I knew that for I knew that because she was
prone to that, she would use things for a weapon
against you. Later on, and now your dad was that
way too. I just didn't know it, but I just
didn't know about it because I didn't know about messages
(01:04:41):
that y'all were having as a family until I came out.
Speaker 2 (01:04:45):
Yeah, so two thousand and five kind of blueprint for
a lot of things you mentioned earlier, like the importance
of that feast IWO in that Sasha and her family
came in.
Speaker 1 (01:04:57):
I remember she came in. I remember her telling me
that I just wish I wasn't married where I could
hang out with you single ladies. And at that time,
I wanted to be married, but I knew that God
had to send him into the congregation. That's what you know,
(01:05:19):
It's kind of subtly undertones, you know, that's what was presented.
As a woman, since I was single, I would have
to go to your dad, and because I didn't have
a husband to go to to talk to about my questions,
so I'd have to go to your dad. And that
you know, if I ever had to talk to your dad,
(01:05:40):
your mom was always there. That real followed. Your mom
was always in the room, and she was there for
a witness. And that was every single lady that was
in our congregation. Yeah, because of that scripture, of the
appearance of evil.
Speaker 2 (01:06:01):
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