January 29, 2025 • 61 mins
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In Part 2, "Not In The Right Spirit," Brittney opens up about the manipulative dynamics of The Love Move, her bold decision to confront the pastor over an inappropriate relationship, and the events that led to her courageous exit from Crusade Church. his eye-opening conversation sheds light on the challenges of breaking free from control and reclaiming her life.
Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok for updates, and support the podcast on Patreon or Buy Me a Coffee to help us share more powerful stories like this one!
#TrueCrimePodcast #CultSurvivor #ReligiousTrauma #ExposingCults #FaithDeconstruction #CultStories #SpiritualAbuse #ChurchAbuse #LifeAfterCult #BreakingFree #SurvivorStory #TrueStoryPodcast #PodcastRecommendations #HealingJourney #CultAwareness #ExposingTheTruth #CourageToLeave #ManipulationAndControl #ApplePodcasts #SpotifyPodcast
In Part 2, "Not In The Right Spirit," Brittney opens up about the manipulative dynamics of The Love Move, her bold decision to confront the pastor over an inappropriate relationship, and the events that led to her courageous exit from Crusade Church. his eye-opening conversation sheds light on the challenges of breaking free from control and reclaiming her life.
Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok for updates, and support the podcast on Patreon or Buy Me a Coffee to help us share more powerful stories like this one!
#TrueCrimePodcast #CultSurvivor #ReligiousTrauma #ExposingCults #FaithDeconstruction #CultStories #SpiritualAbuse #ChurchAbuse #LifeAfterCult #BreakingFree #SurvivorStory #TrueStoryPodcast #PodcastRecommendations #HealingJourney #CultAwareness #ExposingTheTruth #CourageToLeave #ManipulationAndControl #ApplePodcasts #SpotifyPodcast
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
The world tomorrow, The Worldwide Church of God presents Ribert
w Armstrong.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
And I'm here to bring you the truth.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
No one else is telling you the things that God
is telling you through me.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
He's speaking through me the Lord. Let me experience what
it is to be a new bride. You know, I'm
not worried about what I'm about to say, though it
may be graphic. We're coming to the Lord and if
you can take it, beyond the veil is the chamber.
That's the wedding chamber. The Lord told me that.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Hello everyone, and welcome back to the Colt next Door Podcast.
I am Maddie Laster. Before we get started today, quick reminder,
go and follow us on our socials.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
TikTok.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
It's back, so go follow us on TikTok, Instagram, Facebook,
all that stuff. We've got our Patreon. Speaking of our Patreon,
want to do our double portion club shout outs real quick,
so shout out to Chase and Shanda, shout out to
David Brown, shout out to Heather Bartlett and new shout
out to Carla. Thank you all for supporting the podcast.
(01:09):
You guys deserve a double portion, so thank you very
much for your support speaking of our Patreon, if any
of you listeners want to go support the podcast, we
got a couple of different tiers there. You can either
be in the Double Portion club or you can just
do a regular I think it's five dollars a month
podcast support if you like what we're doing. Also, if
you haven't already, go leave us a rating and review,
(01:31):
and like I always say, five stars only. Please, if
you've got one stars, keep them to yourselves, just you know,
bury it deep down inside. But if you've got a five,
please do share. So today's episode, we talked to Brittany,
who was a former member of Crusade Church for a
many many years. I think we're talking just less than
twenty long time. So we talked about her time in
(01:53):
Crusade Church, how she came to even learn about the
Crusade Church, what it was like as a member, the
love move. We talk about that a bit, and then
eventually how she found her way out of Crusade Shirt.
So now let's listen to part two with Brittany. When
did you start to notice a change or an intensification
(02:17):
or is that even a word, Yeah, that's a word.
Of the relationship between Dad and Sasha and or Ali
like because you talked about there's kind of like a
gap there. I know things happened, you know, between you know,
mid two thousand's and you know twenty eighteen nineteen all that,
(02:38):
but obviously there was a shift that occurred later, like
talk about like when you noticed those things happening.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
So she was treated different than most of the single
ladies that were there were odorans. She was, she's about
my age. So we went to that concert with you.
You were that one concert we went off to. I
don't I forgot who they are now that it was
just some Christian band that we get to and it
(03:11):
was a gym.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
Yeah, it was like at some church gym, like in
the middle of nowhere, arcancent.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
So we went to that concert and I remember sitting
I think you were driving and sitting in the back
with her and she said that your dad said that
we could date. And I was like what, and I
was questioning it and stuff like that. And I don't
know when that was though, Matt, I don't know what
(03:40):
year that was with that concert. That was like a shift,
but something happened and I don't know exactly. And then
where I could piece that is my oldest was cleaning
the church and she was driving at the time, and
we had a key to the church, right, everyone had
(04:03):
a key. There wasn't a change of locks at the office.
So and that had to have been She graduated in
twenty fourteen, so it had to have been in two
thousand and thirteen or twenty and fourteen that this relationship shifted,
because she told me that she went to drop off
(04:25):
the key and your dad was crying at the house, crying,
full fledged crying. Yeah, and she was just looking, you know, Jazz,
because she has my face. I mean, she has my
she got that part for me. She can't hide anything
because of her face, so I have not too.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, hey, this has it.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Yeah yeah. Maybe I'm not going to category that every
female part of it her, Okay. But so he was
crying and he said, I just can't tell her no.
I can't tell her no. And Jessa was like, well,
that's full of crap. That's what she was saying in
(05:11):
her face. She didn't say it out loud to your dad,
but we do. Your dad could tell us no.
Speaker 4 (05:19):
Do you know what that was in reference to to Sasha, Well,
I mean, I mean, like I don't know. Yeah, like
what was she wanting?
Speaker 1 (05:29):
I don't know, And I don't know if that's when
that family thing started that she wanted to be part
because that.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
Was oh yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Yeah, so but that goes all the way back. That
goes back to in the two shortly after she was
part of our congregation, she told one of the members
that she was going to be part of your family.
What yeah, wait, like years before, Yes, she was going
to be part of the Lasstter family. But your parents'
(06:01):
door was always open and they didn't care when we
came over, and they would come over a lot. And
I know, I'm not saying that I wasn't part of that,
but I did. Probably didn't just didn't have a lot
of time for that. I couldn't go over there at
lunch and sit and let your mom cook me something.
That type of stuff that happened a lot. Your poor
(06:25):
mom had to wait on us. Yeah, you know, she
cooked us. She cooked a supper for Saturday nights. Right,
we don't have corn dogs or something not that. We
had great conversations with your mom in the kitchen. You know,
we always looked forward to it. I mean I did.
(06:45):
That was something special in my heart to go sit
seeing in the kitchen and talk to your mom me too.
Speaker 4 (06:52):
Actually, yeah, that was like a favorite part of yeah
growing up.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Mm hmm. Your mom is just she's just a sweet soul.
And I and I think that it stemmed all the
way back. I don't want to say, two thousand and seven,
maybe two thousand and eight.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
Maybe, So when when she said she was going to
be part of the family, do you think she meant
what it ended up being? Like?
Speaker 1 (07:25):
No, I don't think that she meant that.
Speaker 4 (07:28):
Or was she Did she think she's gonna marry a
brother like Michael or Matthew.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
I mean, I'm just making assumptions. We made assumptions about
a lot of us. It seemed to me that she
had feelings for almost every guy. I don't know about you, Matt.
Speaker 4 (07:49):
I really hope not, because well, like, what year would
that have been?
Speaker 3 (07:54):
Okay, now, I would have been like, if you're talking
about two thousand and seven and that what you said.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Two thousand and seven, two thousand and eight or nine,
I don't mean, it might have been two thousand times twenty.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
Oh no, that's still a baby.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
But I didn't hear that personally, I'm just gonna put
that out there. I didn't hear that personally. I was
told that from another individual. So, and that happened a lot, right,
we talked about things like that. I thought it odd,
(08:29):
you know, why are we fighting over this family? When
we started on the houses, that's when the Alley thing started. Yeah,
it started with her, I think first, but it might
have been Sasha too. He started flipping houses. I don't
know what the year that was. It started out first,
(08:49):
it was the whole church, and then it targeted into
Sasha and Alley. And I remember sitting on the couch
and I don't know why your dad does this to
me or did this to me. He would throw shit
at me that I would like, I don't even know
what the crap you're talking about, But why are you
instigating me in this conversation? Maybe he was just filling
me out and see where I was. And by that
(09:12):
time I had been pulled in different situations, including with
Gin and probably Sasha was pulling me in all different directions,
and I had a lot of shit going on with people,
and I was just trying to be invisible. There's a
time that I just come to the fact that I
just needed to be as small as I could be.
(09:34):
Why I didn't walk, I didn't rock things, and you know,
I didn't want to rock the waters per se, I guess.
And I became somewhat invisible. I cleaned the church. I
did my duty that top stuff. That was part of
what I gave to the church in clothing, tithing. And
(09:56):
then it increased two tides and it was increasing to
third tithe. Think before we left.
Speaker 4 (10:02):
Yeah, yeah, where was the third Tithe going?
Speaker 1 (10:06):
It was towards like missions and stuff, right, Matt, I
don't know.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
Yeah, I'm trying to remember, because that was like a
relatively late development.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Right, that was a late thing.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
Yeah, because you know, we did obviously normal like first
Tithe and then second Tithe was like Holy.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Day because he was pissed. I don't remember what feast
it was. It was at powder work. I remember he
was pissed because of the offering that he got.
Speaker 4 (10:34):
Yep, too low.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Period.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
What did he say that.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
I'm mad because this is too.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
Low, this is too low? And then I think that
that's when they instigated the second maybe the second tie
of next year, yeah, I think. And we were at
single ladies with children, we were expected to give a gross,
even though I owned a house and I was trying
(11:04):
to make a house payment and all that mess and
take care of my children. I expected to give a tithe,
full tithe of my gross, and I did, and that
I would become laid on bills because I was like
and I was like struggling financially and stuff like that.
(11:24):
I came out of that shit quick. But I don't
believe in tithe anymore. I believe in an offering that's
given from the heart, So I don't believe in tithing.
So when that happened with my daughter and him crying
to her, we didn't know what that was, you know,
(11:49):
we don't know where that stemmed. And then the flipping
of the houses happened, and then they started spending more time. Well,
all the kids were helping with flipping of the houses,
your dad was promising, and then all of the money.
They were in their teens by now. Then it became
it was just Ali and your dad in Sasha. Yeah,
(12:10):
I went over to the house for some reason. I
guess some feathers got ruffled with some parents because it
was just Ali, and maybe he was seeing if my
feathers were ruffled.
Speaker 4 (12:22):
I don't know, you mean just the two of them
at the house working on it together.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Well, Also because like I think you were alluding to
earlier and I don't know all the details, but I
own enough from my understanding, Dad was essentially paying Ali
for working on the house and like putting money like
sizeable mouth from what I understand for her, which I
(12:49):
think a part if you know, people could try to
chalk it up to jealousy, this or that. For me,
I wasn't overly concerned with it, but I just thought like, oh,
like I have and lots of other people have done
many many years of work and like received zero, just
expected to give. And then that was occurring and it
(13:10):
was so confusing because that was not Dad at all.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
It was very foreign, very uncommon. Yeah, because I mean
the guys did work. Y'all would come and fix stuff
at our house and and stuff like that, and y'all
did that because you were serving the Lord. You didn't
get paid for that.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
Well.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
And also I think it was presented also in a
way like like four alleys like college or this or that,
like you know, helping her prepare. And I was thinking,
like Dad never gave me like jack shit ever for anything,
like I never got anything like and then she's getting
(13:48):
like what amounts to an allowance, but like a big one.
So that was obviously weird.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
But I was like whatever, whatever, Yeah, and that's what
I did. I was like whatever. He pretty much brought
that up up to my attention, and he said, well,
it's because the others weren't putting in the work. That's
what he said to me. And he said something about
my girls, and I said, my girls don't need money,
(14:16):
and I just rolled my eyes out of him, and
I remember rolling my eyes. My counselor she was like,
you're rolling your eyes. Why And I'm like, I don't know,
because I do it constantly and I don't know why
I do, but I do. And so he said that
to me, and I said, my girls, if they do
(14:37):
work at their grandparents, they get money. They don't need
your money. And so that's what I said to him.
But I should have at that time was realized that
that was unfair. We had other children in the church
and he was showing favoritism to one and biblically, that
is not right. And I'm sure that Ali and him
(15:01):
would talk and she would bring up things about these children.
I hate to put that on a child, but I
know the other two children that were involved, and they weren't.
I don't think instigators, do you do you think that? Now?
Speaker 3 (15:19):
I was gonna say, like, to your point, I don't
like to attribute motives too much or any of that
for you know. But to your point, though, we spent
enough time around all of these people, we yeah, we
can't say for certain we we know what was going on.
That's how I feel about it. It's like, I'm not gonna,
(15:40):
you know, sign my name in blood to something about this,
but like, I'm pretty certain I know how this was
going down.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
And why wouldn't you if you were going to get
all the money? Yeah, I mean, why wouldn't you put
it in your favor? I mean I understand that part
of it. I wouldn't do it. So I think that
that's what it stemmed was when we started flipping houses.
That's where I think things. Some changes happened with Sasha
(16:12):
and your dad, and I think it stemmed back further
than that. But I don't know, because there was something
going on relationship wise, but I don't really understand it.
She was just jealous of people. Well, There was an
incident that was at one of the feasts. I don't remember, Matt,
but it was when we were doing the talent show.
(16:32):
We were all dancing and stuff, and I was stuck
with Sasha for some reason, and I can't dance, and
she kept changing the moves and I figured and I
couldn't get it down, and I think I cussed her out.
(16:53):
I can't remember, but I said some foul language in
the sanctuary because your sister talked to me and said
and said that I couldn't dance anymore. I couldn't dance.
Speaker 4 (17:05):
I couldn't do that. And You're like, oh, is that
all I have to do? I just drop an F
bomb and I get out of like the flags, and well, well.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Yeah, well it wasn't. It wasn't the flag. I think
I still had to do that, and I enjoyed that
as long as she wouldn't change. I took myself out
of that. I did do that on Friday nights. I
did do the flags, but I was an individual that
done the flags and stuff. It wasn't I wasn't under
her control. There was a lot of mirroring going on,
and I think that that was a lot of the
(17:37):
go thing. There was a lot of mirroring on people
because other people had feelings that they were having subside
to subside themselves, and they were mirroring it off of you.
That type of stuff. I think that that that was
happening a lot in our as. On my side as
a woman, she the dance thing happened. I got pulled
(18:01):
off of that, which I didn't care. I was embarrassed more.
I was embarrassed that I lost my temper. It just
didn't die with that. It was brought up, you know,
over and over and over again, so it just never died. Yeah,
and that was with all of us. I think, you know,
(18:22):
we did it to each other. So that's just something
that was part of that dynamic, that shaming. That was
part of your shaming was they would bring up your
past and what you did and everything.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
So you're noticing a change with Ali and Sasha with
the house stuff really and like you said there there,
I think other people have said this too. Something was
off even before that, but then it was a little
more out in the open when the house stuff was
(18:59):
really in full swing, which was I guess mid twenty
teen's type thing. So from there maybe hit on anything
in particular, you notice, but I definitely want you to
hit on like when it came to a breaking point
for you where you were like, okay, I'm talking about this,
I'm talking to him or whoever.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Okay, So with you remember hanging out to the church.
You were hanging out of church a lot. Oh yeah,
I was cleaning the church. She was over there. It
takes you some time to clean up the church. He
changed the locks was the first thing. Because you know,
my oldest she has lots of questions and if he
brings up something darren a sermon that's contradicting, she's going
(19:44):
to ask him. And but he told her, you're just
like your mother.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
It's gonna say. She would go to dad, much to
his chagrin. He did not appreciate her coming.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Yeah, and that was another thing. He labeled her as demonic.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
I think, oh yeah, I mean, not to get sidetracked,
but he's I remember there was a circumstance in which
he said that he saw some kind of like demonic
snake thing coming out from under where she was sitting,
or some nonsense like that, Like he was laying the
groundwork for how she was.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
But I think before that he even he was like,
she doesn't like me. And that was when she was young. Yeah,
so he was laying that groundwork. I didn't really know
about all that, I don't think, but when she was
in her teen she had a tone.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
Oh well, well she was and I guess probably still
is blunt, very blunt and blunt with him, and people
were not blunt with him. And I mean, obviously it
worked in the wrong way.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Yeah. I was kind of blunt with him, but he
know how to bouy his I think with me. Yeah,
and then he would probably talk about it afterwards, definitely, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I when the door got changed, the locks got changed,
that was a big flag for me.
Speaker 4 (21:14):
Did he tell anyone that he was doing that or
you just stumbled upon that?
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Basically we stumbled upon it because we cleaned the church
and we had to clean his office, right and he
changed the lock.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
So I think we've talked about this, not to get
like crazy in the weeds on the how the church
was laid out, but he had the sanctuary and then
a door that led to what we called like the
utility room, and then there was a door from there
into his office, and his office had an exterior door too.
But yeah, like I remember when the locks were changed
on that utility room which we had, it's called a
(21:49):
utility room. Like there were things in there, like the vacuum.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Was in there, and like we couldn't get there.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
Yeah, like mop.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
Buckets and stuff, and like, oh, suddenly we can't get
into get room. And it seemingly no reason not to
be able.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
To like yeah, and it was so contradicting because we
would clean the church, but then we would get in
trouble because the bathroom that was in his where the
office was, was not cleaned. Well, yes, because it was
locked and stuff, and you were in there all the time.
I guess it was when you were there, Matt. I
remember that you were there. I was getting nauseous because
(22:27):
she was there. You were there, and you were playing music,
and I knew that you were there because she was there,
but I didn't say that to you, but I knew
that you were being protective and that was a flag
to me because you were there and you were just
it was odd for you to be there. I think
I was. I you know, I played music on my
(22:50):
phone and everything. Yeah, I went and talked to you
about Explosions in the Sky that band. I had talked
to you some time before that, and I think you
started playing it. Explosion Is in the Sky is one
of their songs. And I went in there because I
knew that song and I was talking to you. But
it was just a flag to me that you were there,
(23:13):
and you stayed there the whole time I cleaned the church,
and that she was there.
Speaker 4 (23:18):
And then but was she in the Dad's office?
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Was in the office. She was in the office. I
think that after the that was after the futon. Somehow
I found out about the futon. I don't remember how
there was a futon in the office. And this the
reason that that's a red flag. You remember that couch
that was in the mission room. Yes, okay, so people
(23:44):
in our you know, people would get tired in our
congregation and they would go and fall asleep on the couch.
And your dad got rid of it, because people fall
asleep on the couch there in services, So we got
rid of it. And I'm like, what the hell are
we having a couch in the in there for? And
you'd be laying down and why does that need to
(24:06):
be happening? And then the I don't know, when only
she could pray for him. That was a red flag.
Your mama was so torn, she was so torn and everything,
and I could tell that was another red flag to me.
(24:32):
That last fiece that we attended, we had this worship
service and your mom was there and Sasha was there
and Ali because they're going to make sure that if
anything happened, they were going to go back to your dad. Yeah,
I'm sure they were just there to tell on people sometime,
and I don't remember when it happened. Your mom asked
(24:53):
me how I knew that my ex was cheating on me?
Speaker 4 (24:57):
Oh, my goodness, know what.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
I knew that was coming. I know when you were
talking about it. I knew that's what mom was going
to say. I don't think i'd heard that before.
Speaker 4 (25:06):
But yeah, she had no one to talk to. She
had to really air these suspicions.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Or and that was such she was so brave to
do that she did. I mean she didn't. Maybe she
felt safe with me because by then I had read
lots of self help books and I read a book
called Radically Honest by this psychiatrist. I remember talking to
(25:42):
the roommate of Sandy about it, and I remember telling him,
I just want to be radically honest. That's the way
I'm going to be from now on, and I'm not
going to be the middle person to these that's crap.
Speaker 4 (25:55):
Yeah, when she asked you that, did you Did she
say that in a context of I'm wondering for myself
or what? Did it seem more genera.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
It was an odd time, it was random, So I
didn't really I said, I caught him. I caught him,
and I kind of knew inside I felt it. Yeah,
and that was a red flag. So I had all
this going on and stuff, and had.
Speaker 4 (26:28):
You already suspected I mean, were you already thinking what
is going on between them? Or was that a tipping
like a tip off that maybe you should pay closer
attention to that relationship.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
I did start paying closer attention to the relationship. It
was after that happened in the sanctuary with your mother,
and Sasha was grinning the entire time. I forgot to
bring that up. Oh yeah, let's go.
Speaker 4 (26:55):
Back to that because we're talking about the December seventh, right, which.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
Which that December seventh, twenty nineteen, is you know what
you were talking about at the top of this episode
where you know, we talked about it before, were dad.
It's like, in front of everybody, reprimanded mom. And it
was a huge deal for a lot of people, including
you for sure.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
And it was so I was coming out of my
pew and trying to get by and I came in
on this whatever was going on, and she had that
you know, that grin Sasha, and she was like, Oh,
you don't have to you don't have to apologize and
(27:37):
stuff and being soft spoken, and if you know Sasha,
she'll rip your head off, because she's ripped my head
off a couple of times. And your dad's yelled, I mean,
has a very aggressive tone towards your mother, and he
does it towards Sasha, big red flag, and I'm like,
what the shit is going on? And I didn't find
(27:57):
out what was going on till we did the meeting,
which was a month later, what exactly all that mess was.
Because I went and had that meeting with him because
it was tear me up. I was talking to my
friend who's outside the congregation and she said, it sounds
like an emotional affair.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
I wasn't thinking that he was having an affair, but
now that things were happening things that y'all had talked about.
It was more than an emotional affair. There was there
was It wasn't a relationship, you know, he was he
was cheating on your mom. Yeah, I want to put that.
(28:41):
I want to put that out there. He was the cheater, yeah,
one hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
And we'll never know the extent of the physical part,
which yeah, I mean is irrelevant. It's relevant, but not
fully to your point, Like we know enough about the
emotional and the little bit we do about the physical
to know like, yeah, this wasn't just an emotional affair,
like they were having an affair, and if it continued,
(29:11):
and it may have since then, I'm sure.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
I don't know Rosvelt. I don't know, but I'm not
friends with him on Facebook.
Speaker 4 (29:19):
And to be frank, like, whether if there was penetration
or not is a very little consequence in the whole
scheme of what was going on between the two of them.
It really doesn't change anything to me.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
No, it doesn't. No, once you once you cuashed that
line that you're with each other multiple hours of the
day in a lock, take it elsewhere, room and elsewhere,
that is cheating. You've already stepped over that line. But
I've heard that he has said that she cheated first.
(30:01):
That is not the case.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
Yeah, I think, and you may know, I think he
not to get on the side thing here, but I
can't help them. I think he tried to equate her
having lunch with a guy that I think we've called yeah,
mom having lunch with a guy that we've called Teddy
(30:25):
Bear on the podcast, so you might know we've talked
about him several times. Ye, like a very lovable southern
country boy, like love him. He's I don't know, a
little bit older than me, I don't know, thirty nine
now or something like that. Like, she had lunch with
him when all of this was kind of going down,
and I remember at the time he tried to equate
(30:46):
that with what he was doing with Sasha, which to
everybody was like, you are out of your mind.
Speaker 4 (30:52):
Also like, but it's ridiculous because he doesn't even believe that.
I mean, he is just throwing as much shit against
the wall as he can to reflect from what he's
doing exactly.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
And that's why I wanted to definitely put that in
the podcast, that he was the cheater. Emotionally, he had
left that role as a husband for your mom, you
know she was you remember the altar. Yeah, your mom
would lay on the altar like multiple times, and it
(31:31):
was because she had harsh feelings towards Sasha. She was struggling.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
This what you're talking about when you went to meet
with that. Roughly, when was that he did?
Speaker 1 (31:45):
It was in January, so it was a month later.
Speaker 4 (31:48):
Have you just been thinking about this for that whole
month and observing and getting more concerned?
Speaker 1 (31:56):
Yes, yes, well I don't There was one time, and
I don't know when this happened. I can't remember. I
used to work out and stuff. I used to go
on the trails and everything, and I would see his
car there and I messaged him, but she was there too.
One time that both of their cars were there, I
(32:16):
took a picture. It was up on you know, the
hilltop of o Post the bike trails. Yeah, okay, so
both of their vehicles were there, So I met. I
took a picture to my and sent it, and I
sent it I think to myself of both of their
cars being there at the same time, and I think
(32:38):
I messaged him I have a message, and I asked
him if he was up on the trail, and he said, yes,
I'm just meditating. So there's a red flag there. Why
is he there with this woman that it's been doctrinated
into us that you do not be left alone with
(33:00):
and id an individual like another opposite sex. God, we
I couldn't even go have freaking coffee and talk to
Sans without people thinking I had feelings for him or
like people's pages, without me having feelings for people, I
couldn't go have coffee. And at that time, Mitchell only
(33:20):
had one coffee shop. I think we had a conversation.
Me and Sans had a conversation, and not long after that,
I got a call and why am I having Why
am I going to the coffee shop? Why am I
spending some mu's time there? Well, that was my outlet
because I had to deal with you people. That was
my outlet.
Speaker 4 (33:40):
I turned to coffee.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
I turned to coffee, and I've read. I was reading.
I was reading multiple, multiple books at the same time,
just to.
Speaker 4 (33:50):
But honestly, why do you have to defend yourself from
being at a coffee shop? You know what I mean?
It's just so insane.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
It is at a it. I was pissed at the
time having to explain myself. But there was a lot
of assumptions.
Speaker 4 (34:07):
Someone was noticing your vehicle there, like or I mean,
how would they know?
Speaker 2 (34:15):
I was going to say, not.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
What I point fingers at people, but I'm.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
Sure that I'm gonna you don't want to put fingers,
but I'm gonna no. I mean, definitely what happened is
that sorry Sandy, but Sandy would tell somebody that you
had come and that somebody would take it upon themselves
(34:40):
to call to correct you, which is like a tale
as old as Crusader church time.
Speaker 4 (34:45):
So it was it a telling as in, I've got
to tell on this person, or a casual mentioning, oh
I saw Brittany today.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
Somewhere in between. I don't think it was to tell
on but just to be like, oh, yeah, here, I'm
going to divul everything that's happened in my day to you.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
Yeah. But that was that was taught. That was taught,
you know, that was that was what we and he
was still new somewhat and everything, and he really cared
about I think that was his that we had clicks,
so that was part of his circle. So and that
(35:22):
and I mean, I don't I don't have any hard
feelings about that. I like deep converse conversations. I like
deep conversations and stuff, and that's how I'm attracted to people.
That's what I look for in a person. Someone I
can have deep conversations, because I had that with my kids,
and it would just be it would fit, O would fit,
(35:44):
you know, I wouldn't have to have that.
Speaker 4 (35:47):
The coffee shop issue was that that you were you
were having conversations with Sandy while you were there because
he was working there, and it was like, oh, you
have feelings for him.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
I think that it was a time when we I
think that we started talking about politics and stuff. He
was there by himself, I think at the time, and
I was trying, and I was and I did. I
talked to Sandy and everything, and I don't know when
that was. That was before that was before all the
love movement things. We found out we liked certain musics,
(36:22):
like we had music in common, but it was it
was always it was always that police sneed to control you,
like they thought I had feelings for Teddy Bear, and
I did not. I did not have feelings for him.
So he's a He's a very caring guy, sweet guy, pure,
(36:45):
you know. I have feelings for him as a brother.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
Now, And I just y it was better to have
conversation with men outside of crusade because I you know,
I talked to guys outside of crusade, and I had
an easier conversation with them, but there was no replication.
You know, it didn't come back to me. Yeah, it
wouldn't come back to bite me in the ass. So
(37:13):
that's what I did, is I would talk to people
outside of crusade. I couldn't really conversate with the guys
in Crusade because of that and that rule, and that
it would come back to me and I would have
to go through a conversation and I didn't want to
have to deal with it. I didn't want to have
to So if if I did have feelings for if
(37:38):
I did have feelings for people, I would just cut
it off.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
You know, that's probably why I was so easy to
come into this faith. Was that and I started rocking waters.
You know, when things were happening, I think your dad started,
I don't know, the guys were having some issues. They
wanted to be married, Like gave a sermon and he
basically said that I couldn't get married why is that
(38:07):
because of my age and that I couldn't reproduce?
Speaker 4 (38:12):
He thought I couldn't reproduce.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
I was still to I mean technically I could have.
I could have reproduced.
Speaker 4 (38:19):
Did he say that outright? If you are, you know,
past at the point of child bearing?
Speaker 1 (38:26):
You know?
Speaker 3 (38:27):
He said that he was not going to marry anybody
if they were not planning on hell and happy children.
Speaker 4 (38:36):
Yes, which would mean that he wouldn't support a courtship
as well.
Speaker 3 (38:41):
Like if somebody, if you had gone to him for
a courtship and he knows that either you can't or
don't want to, don't intend to have kids, nonsense, Yes,
not gonna happen.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
Yes, not going to happen. Yeah, Yeah, because I went
after I went to him afterwards, and that's what he said.
He said, well, I won't bless it. You can get married,
but I won't bless it. That was a big thing. Well,
if he wouldn't bless me so much, I stood my
ground and I said, well I'm going to study this.
(39:15):
But that happened and I closed myself off. In moments,
I would talk to the single guys, but I pretty
much cut that off.
Speaker 3 (39:28):
That whole dynamic obviously explains enough. It doesn't cover all
of it, it explains enough. Why you know, you were
talking about seeing dads and Sasha's cars at this place
and the church stuff that that was enough for you
to be like, Okay, so I'm dealing with this and
then you're doing this.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
Yeah, so I have all this stuff that's going on,
and then I have this and the scripture that's going
through my head, the appearance of evil that it just
got worse with them and she going back to Sasha.
And I was at the church cleaning. Of course, that's
when I got trouble for cleaning all the time, and
(40:12):
we had to delegate who was going to clean.
Speaker 4 (40:15):
Did you start cleaning more because of that? Okay, I
don't think so.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
It was between me and my oldest daughter. We cleaned,
and but I guess we were there too much. But
I think that this incident happened. I cleaned the church
there on Thursday or Friday. They were there. Of course,
she got pissed with him for some reason. She drew
willed tires down the road. Your dad was right behind
(40:43):
her right and opened the door in his truck. And
I opened the door to see what the crap's going on,
And so I opened the door and that's when I
see her vehicle and then I see him right behind.
He said that Asha said I'm leaving. I'm never coming back.
She threatened, God help us. We've all been better off.
(41:10):
And then you're he said, but your mom had said,
I'm glad she's not coming back to your father. Okay,
put him into a spin.
Speaker 3 (41:24):
Okay, so let's go. Let's rewind just like one moment.
The thing with mom publicly happens in December. You're you've
been noticing things and it gets to a boiling point
for you.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
Yes, I think that happened like that week of that December,
the spunning off with Asa, okay, and then your dad
went after okay, and then so I'm an alert, like
the next that Sabbath day, and then all this shit happens.
I'm like, what the crap do? And so I'm told
(42:00):
tail spin and that he's having an affair with her.
That turns me one hundred and eight.
Speaker 4 (42:06):
Do the car chase?
Speaker 1 (42:08):
You're like, yeah, yes, so but then the in the meeting,
which is like a month later, that's when he brings
that to my attention. This is what was going on.
This is what your mother said. Well, your mom's told
him that I'm glad she's not going to be back,
and I don't know if that's true, because he's alive.
Speaker 4 (42:29):
She probably said.
Speaker 3 (42:32):
So in the in the month or so between, you know,
you seeing that display, you know, outside the church with
the squall and tires, and then you see what happens
with Mom and Sasha and Dad publicly in front of everybody,
walk us through kind of like that month. I know
(42:53):
you you decided at some point to meet with Dad
in his office, right, so you and you wanted to
take I think you've met.
Speaker 1 (43:03):
I didn't want to meet it. I didn't want to
meet in his office.
Speaker 3 (43:09):
That you didn't want, No, I did not, but you
you wanted to like do it up right from what
I recall, So you.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
Yes, my oldest tells me the scripture that you need
to do it biblically, and I said, what do you mean?
She said, you need to confront him with two witnesses.
That's what it says in the Bible. And so that's
why I said the two witnesses. And I didn't trust
your dad. Yeah, by then, so I reached out in
(43:43):
a group message to matt to you, and to brought
to Jen's husband and to Michael, and Michael said he
would go.
Speaker 4 (43:54):
And Matthews just did you.
Speaker 1 (43:57):
He didn't answer that.
Speaker 4 (44:00):
I'll go back and answer it.
Speaker 1 (44:04):
Yes, I don't think that, and I wrote, Matt, I
don't know if you can. But I wrote a whole thing,
but I deleted it and it's on my It's on
my little white little laptop in there. I don't know
if there's a way you can get it. But that
was my whole thought process. All right, that was going on,
(44:26):
But I don't know how to. I can see if
Shelby can retrieve it, and then I can send it
to you maybe.
Speaker 2 (44:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:32):
Yeah, she said kind of a geek, thank you are.
So I was like, okay, they're having worship on Thursdays.
I'll have it at his house because everyone will be
at worship and nobody will interrupt us, meaning Sasha or Ali.
Speaker 2 (44:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
I didn't give a crap about anyone else. And so
my second person, because no one else took the ticket,
was my friend Sissy and part of it. So he
started this love movement right, part of me needed to
be hugged by people, and it was okay, to have
(45:19):
conversations with opposite sex, that type of thing. Because I
at the time I probably was. I had read the
book by Timothy Keller, The Meaning of Marriage, and he
was having a problem with this his congregation not getting
married and they just stayed single and he was concerned,
(45:40):
and so him and his wife with this book. And
it was good for it was good for singles, it
was good for people that were married and stuff. And
I learned a lot from that book.
Speaker 4 (45:48):
But it was just.
Speaker 1 (45:50):
When you're in part of crusade, there's that segregation of
men and women so hard because as a woman you
can't speak. But I did speak out against things. Part
of me would speak out when it didn't make sense
(46:13):
to me. I told him I want to meet at
his house, and it was because I needed a place
where I could kind of sit down on the floor
or something and not have to sit in a chair
and be combined. I needed a place where I could
move and get up and not be combined in the office.
So he waited till the last minute, which threw me
(46:38):
completely off, and moved it to the church.
Speaker 4 (46:43):
Wait was mom at this meeting. She was not okay.
Speaker 3 (46:47):
So so it's.
Speaker 1 (46:48):
You and sissy and Michael and your dad.
Speaker 4 (46:53):
Yeah, and well, did Michael understand what was going on?
Did you? Did you talk to him ahead of time
and tell him why you wanted this meeting? Your sister
called me.
Speaker 1 (47:06):
Maybe she was doing a little investigating on her own
to figure out why. But she called me like the
day before, and she seemed concerned that.
Speaker 4 (47:17):
I was doing this, and you told her why.
Speaker 1 (47:22):
Yes, we sit down in his office and he brings
up Teddy Bear, and I said, I said, I already
took care of that at the of the night of
And I'm like, what the crap, how did you hear
about it? That's what I was thinking in my mind.
(47:44):
So he throws me off with that, and I said,
it has nothing to do with Teddy Bear. I said,
I already confronted that situation, I said, and then I
confronted him afterward to make sure that he didn't have
any hard feelings. So, because I at that time, I
was adulting and I was take care of my own shit,
I'd realized that I could take care of my own stuff,
(48:06):
and I wasn't being the middle person. Somewhat, I still
cared about what your sister thought. I was just struggling
with that shit. So I said, no, it's about Sasha.
And that's when I said, what happened in the sanctuary
(48:27):
and her coming to your office and being here for
multiple hours of the day without anyone else. I need
to talk to you about this. And I don't know
if I called him out that he was having an affair.
I can't remember because that was so dramatic for me,
but I pretty much said that he was having an affair.
(48:49):
I don't know if I just came out and asked him,
are you having an affair with Sasha. I don't think
that I did that because I knew your dad, but
I think that I said I brought up the incident
with where I work and stuff, and I was going
from my notes, and he said she's my daughter and
(49:15):
I said, no, she's not. And he said, God said
that she's my daughter. I said, but she's not. Biologically,
she's not your daughter. And he believed that adopting a
child did not make them your children. I brought that
to his attention, and he said, but God has told
(49:36):
me that she is my daughter, along with Teddy Bear
as his son. I kind of argued back and forth
on that. I think a little bit. I'm not for sure.
And what he brought to my attention was, you're the
first person that has questioned me about this. And I
(49:56):
kind of glanced over at Michael and I said, why
did you tell her to leave during the sanctuary when
we were in the dining hall?
Speaker 3 (50:07):
Mom, like, why did you tell?
Speaker 1 (50:10):
I remember bringing that to his attention, and he said
that she was not in the right spirit. And then
he brought up that Sasha he had cast out several
demons from her, and he brought up that your mom
wasn't in the right spirit. And I said, I don't
think it's her. I think it's Sasha that's not in
(50:31):
the right spirit. I think I brought that back to
him and he said, I don't think you're in the
right spirit. And then I try to you know me,
I'm just like and I'm trying to figure out where
I am with my notes, and I said the movement
I brought. I brought up the movement. So I was like, well,
(50:53):
this ain't going anywhere. So I brought up the movement
because I said, something unpure is happening in this movement.
Because something had happened and somebody was dancing with somebody
and your dad, like your dad pushed them apart. It
just didn't feel the same and it was felt unpure
now to me. And I questioned that. I said, it
(51:17):
doesn't feel the same than it did at the beginning
when we started it. So and he goes, well, what
do you mean? And I said, it just something's off
with it, and by then I was so, I was
just I don't know, I couldn't. I can't remember everything
that I said. A lot of things didn't get answered
(51:41):
to me, other than that Sasha had some demons and
he pulled them out and that she was his daughter
and it's not inappropriate because they are father and daughter
and that's all that he said. And I argued with
that and said that she's not she's not your daughter though,
(52:03):
and he argued back and forth about that, and I
was trying to tell him that it was inappropriate. But
then I just got pissed and I said, this isn't
going anywhere. And I probably started to cry because I
was so pissed, you know how I am. And I
was so pissed, and I shut my thing and I said, well,
(52:26):
I'm going to get one thing done here. I said,
I'm going to Oklahoma and I'm going to visit with
a church that was in Oklahoma.
Speaker 4 (52:34):
In that meeting, did Michael or Cissy give any input.
Speaker 1 (52:41):
Cissy was trying to help when I couldn't really get
out what I was talking about exactly with the whole
love movement, and that it had changed, and I felt
that things were it was getting weird, things were happening.
There was a time during a Thursday worship or a
(53:02):
Sunday worship, we're there by ourselves and you go from
you can't have really a lot of contact with the
opposite sex that you can lay on the stage and
hold each other to your dancing with each other of
the opposite sex, and it's moved to that it's pushed,
(53:22):
especially with the younger with the younger ones that really
do us in a bread flag. I guess to me
it was just at a time when he had separated
two individuals Darren worship, and I had seen it that
(53:43):
was upsetting to me because we're in the middle of
worshiping God. There shouldn't be anything inappropriately happening, and why
are you pushing people away from each other? That I
wanted to bring that up to in the meeting. He
just kept pushing things aside, I think, and he was
(54:05):
he was getting me frustrated at the time. Now I
know that he did that on purpose. He wasn't he
didn't care. He was more caring that I was questioning
his motives with Sasha. I think the thing on the
(54:26):
stage when your mom asked me, how did you know
that he was cheating? Was all in this kind of
close together. So I'm taught. I'm a patterned person and
I link things together, and but that still didn't move
me to leave.
Speaker 4 (54:46):
I find it interesting because people are talking about his
motives for spending all this time with her, but outside
of motives, I don't care, you know what I mean.
It's like, so what, let's say you actually do have
good motives, which we all know is not the case,
but it's still hurting your spouse, and you know, like
(55:10):
he's like well aware knows it, does not care. He's
going to do what feels good to him.
Speaker 3 (55:17):
Well. And also, as we all three know and other
people two, it wasn't just that he was going to continue.
He was going to continue, and he was going to
rub it in her face and everyone else's. But she
did gleefully which to me was one of the worst parts.
It's like, you know, even if you think you're right
(55:39):
to do it, like why are you going out of
your way to rub it in these this person's face
or other people, which he did, Like he just there's
no excuse. Like I was there, I saw how he operated.
Speaker 1 (55:52):
Well, I think that it was instigated because it made
that that relationship okay, yeah, movement. I think that it
was instigated because of that.
Speaker 2 (56:04):
Sense.
Speaker 1 (56:05):
It gave him that well, I sat beside this person
and I rubbed their arm and stuff like that, and
he put it that he's doing it to everyone, right,
it puts him in that category. I danced with everyone
that type of thing, So that's what I think. I
think it gave him an excuse to continue with that,
(56:30):
and it didn't stop. You know, I can't even watch Chosen,
that TV show. I can't watch it because he put
Sasha in the category of Mary Magdalene. I remember that
sermon and I slammed my Bible so mad everything, so
(56:54):
I was just it was all of it together. And
I remember cleaning the church, which the last time I prayed.
I went and prayed on stage and then I tapped
the doorway to the sanctuary, and I prayed for everyone
to come out. I prayed for all y'all. I didn't
want y'all to be stuck in whatever was happening, because
(57:16):
that by then I knew I left maybe two weeks
before David did. But I didn't know that thou that
was happening with David and that he was researching.
Speaker 4 (57:29):
Had you come to the conclusion that he was a narcissist,
because I mean, that was the impetus for.
Speaker 1 (57:36):
Actually I came to the conclusion. I came to the
conclusion that Sasha was a narcissist. She was a narcissist,
And I knew something was off with your dad, but
I know I got a lot of that harm, you know.
And but I was still somewhat visiting with some people
(57:57):
that were in our congregation after I guess it was
after the split, and they were putting her in a
category as a victim, and I was like, she is
not a victim. She is not a victim because I
knew her, and she had harmed me emotionally and put
me in a place of emotional and emotional trauma, you
(58:20):
know that I had to deal with. She was still
messaging me after I'd left. I had to block her
on phone. I had to block her on Facebook. Ali
has been snooping on my Instagram and I blocked her recently.
So I think that people what they need to take
(58:41):
out of this is Yeah, I don't know if you
see it at first, but if they're you know, they're
forcing things that you don't understand and you're not comfortable
with on you step back, step back, and you can leave,
(59:03):
which is the hardest thing on earth, because you love
other people. It's a hard thing. There's somewhered flags. You know.
If you're having to spend every day and you like
the Sabbath, you cann't miss. You couldn't miss, and if
you miss, then they question if you're falling away. Right,
(59:29):
So if you can't miss a plan, you can't miss
or act be absent or just in the last lounge, man,
I couldn't miss the last lasted lounge. I had to
be there or they were talking about me. Why isn't
she here? If that stuff's happening in your congregation, you
(59:50):
need to step back and realize that's not who Jesus is. Right,
he wasn't like that. He went to the bars and
he went to the prostitutes, and he loved them unconditionally,
and he talked to them respectfully. Even Paul did people
(01:00:12):
of different faith. So if you can't read something out
of your congregation, or you can't go visit another congregation,
that's a red flag. It's a red flag, and people
need to know that that's a red flag to think
about what your faith is. Because Paul spoke to It's
(01:00:38):
like my favorite chapter in the Bible. He spoke to
people that worshiped many gods call the little g goods,
and he worshiped, and he went to them, and he
spoke to them in a respectful manner. I wrote letters
to people and everything that I probably shouldn't have because
(01:00:58):
they were a different faith than me, and somewhat condemned them.
I just hope someone takes something for it.
Speaker 4 (01:01:05):
They will. We hear that almost daily. Yeah, just kind
of what keeps us going.
Speaker 1 (01:01:11):
If you like this episode of The Cult next Door,
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The world tomorrow, The Worldwide Church of God presents Ribert
w Armstrong.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
And I'm here to bring you the truth.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
No one else is telling you the things that God
is telling you through me.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
He's speaking through me the Lord. Let me experience what
it is to be a new bride. You know, I'm
not worried about what I'm about to say, though it
may be graphic. We're coming to the Lord and if
you can take it, beyond the veil is the chamber.
That's the wedding chamber. The Lord told me that.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Hello everyone, and welcome back to the Colt next Door Podcast.
I am Maddie Laster. Before we get started today, quick reminder,
go and follow us on our socials.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
TikTok.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
It's back, so go follow us on TikTok, Instagram, Facebook,
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want to do our double portion club shout outs real quick,
so shout out to Chase and Shanda, shout out to
David Brown, shout out to Heather Bartlett and new shout
out to Carla. Thank you all for supporting the podcast.
(01:09):
You guys deserve a double portion, so thank you very
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(01:31):
and like I always say, five stars only. Please, if
you've got one stars, keep them to yourselves, just you know,
bury it deep down inside. But if you've got a five,
please do share. So today's episode, we talked to Brittany,
who was a former member of Crusade Church for a
many many years. I think we're talking just less than
twenty long time. So we talked about her time in
(01:53):
Crusade Church, how she came to even learn about the
Crusade Church, what it was like as a member, the
love move. We talk about that a bit, and then
eventually how she found her way out of Crusade Shirt.
So now let's listen to part two with Brittany. When
did you start to notice a change or an intensification
(02:17):
or is that even a word, Yeah, that's a word.
Of the relationship between Dad and Sasha and or Ali
like because you talked about there's kind of like a
gap there. I know things happened, you know, between you know,
mid two thousand's and you know twenty eighteen nineteen all that,
(02:38):
but obviously there was a shift that occurred later, like
talk about like when you noticed those things happening.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
So she was treated different than most of the single
ladies that were there were odorans. She was, she's about
my age. So we went to that concert with you.
You were that one concert we went off to. I
don't I forgot who they are now that it was
just some Christian band that we get to and it
(03:11):
was a gym.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
Yeah, it was like at some church gym, like in
the middle of nowhere, arcancent.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
So we went to that concert and I remember sitting
I think you were driving and sitting in the back
with her and she said that your dad said that
we could date. And I was like what, and I
was questioning it and stuff like that. And I don't
know when that was though, Matt, I don't know what
(03:40):
year that was with that concert. That was like a shift,
but something happened and I don't know exactly. And then
where I could piece that is my oldest was cleaning
the church and she was driving at the time, and
we had a key to the church, right, everyone had
(04:03):
a key. There wasn't a change of locks at the office.
So and that had to have been She graduated in
twenty fourteen, so it had to have been in two
thousand and thirteen or twenty and fourteen that this relationship shifted,
because she told me that she went to drop off
(04:25):
the key and your dad was crying at the house, crying,
full fledged crying. Yeah, and she was just looking, you know, Jazz,
because she has my face. I mean, she has my
she got that part for me. She can't hide anything
because of her face, so I have not too.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, hey, this has it.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Yeah yeah. Maybe I'm not going to category that every
female part of it her, Okay. But so he was
crying and he said, I just can't tell her no.
I can't tell her no. And Jessa was like, well,
that's full of crap. That's what she was saying in
(05:11):
her face. She didn't say it out loud to your dad,
but we do. Your dad could tell us no.
Speaker 4 (05:19):
Do you know what that was in reference to to Sasha, Well,
I mean, I mean, like I don't know. Yeah, like
what was she wanting?
Speaker 1 (05:29):
I don't know, And I don't know if that's when
that family thing started that she wanted to be part
because that.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
Was oh yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Yeah, so but that goes all the way back. That
goes back to in the two shortly after she was
part of our congregation, she told one of the members
that she was going to be part of your family.
What yeah, wait, like years before, Yes, she was going
to be part of the Lasstter family. But your parents'
(06:01):
door was always open and they didn't care when we
came over, and they would come over a lot. And
I know, I'm not saying that I wasn't part of that,
but I did. Probably didn't just didn't have a lot
of time for that. I couldn't go over there at
lunch and sit and let your mom cook me something.
That type of stuff that happened a lot. Your poor
(06:25):
mom had to wait on us. Yeah, you know, she
cooked us. She cooked a supper for Saturday nights. Right,
we don't have corn dogs or something not that. We
had great conversations with your mom in the kitchen. You know,
we always looked forward to it. I mean I did.
(06:45):
That was something special in my heart to go sit
seeing in the kitchen and talk to your mom me too.
Speaker 4 (06:52):
Actually, yeah, that was like a favorite part of yeah
growing up.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Mm hmm. Your mom is just she's just a sweet soul.
And I and I think that it stemmed all the
way back. I don't want to say, two thousand and seven,
maybe two thousand and eight.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
Maybe, So when when she said she was going to
be part of the family, do you think she meant
what it ended up being? Like?
Speaker 1 (07:25):
No, I don't think that she meant that.
Speaker 4 (07:28):
Or was she Did she think she's gonna marry a
brother like Michael or Matthew.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
I mean, I'm just making assumptions. We made assumptions about
a lot of us. It seemed to me that she
had feelings for almost every guy. I don't know about you, Matt.
Speaker 4 (07:49):
I really hope not, because well, like, what year would
that have been?
Speaker 3 (07:54):
Okay, now, I would have been like, if you're talking
about two thousand and seven and that what you said.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Two thousand and seven, two thousand and eight or nine,
I don't mean, it might have been two thousand times twenty.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
Oh no, that's still a baby.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
But I didn't hear that personally, I'm just gonna put
that out there. I didn't hear that personally. I was
told that from another individual. So, and that happened a lot, right,
we talked about things like that. I thought it odd,
(08:29):
you know, why are we fighting over this family? When
we started on the houses, that's when the Alley thing started. Yeah,
it started with her, I think first, but it might
have been Sasha too. He started flipping houses. I don't
know what the year that was. It started out first,
(08:49):
it was the whole church, and then it targeted into
Sasha and Alley. And I remember sitting on the couch
and I don't know why your dad does this to
me or did this to me. He would throw shit
at me that I would like, I don't even know
what the crap you're talking about, But why are you
instigating me in this conversation? Maybe he was just filling
me out and see where I was. And by that
(09:12):
time I had been pulled in different situations, including with
Gin and probably Sasha was pulling me in all different directions,
and I had a lot of shit going on with people,
and I was just trying to be invisible. There's a
time that I just come to the fact that I
just needed to be as small as I could be.
(09:34):
Why I didn't walk, I didn't rock things, and you know,
I didn't want to rock the waters per se, I guess.
And I became somewhat invisible. I cleaned the church. I
did my duty that top stuff. That was part of
what I gave to the church in clothing, tithing. And
(09:56):
then it increased two tides and it was increasing to
third tithe. Think before we left.
Speaker 4 (10:02):
Yeah, yeah, where was the third Tithe going?
Speaker 1 (10:06):
It was towards like missions and stuff, right, Matt, I
don't know.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
Yeah, I'm trying to remember, because that was like a
relatively late development.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Right, that was a late thing.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
Yeah, because you know, we did obviously normal like first
Tithe and then second Tithe was like Holy.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Day because he was pissed. I don't remember what feast
it was. It was at powder work. I remember he
was pissed because of the offering that he got.
Speaker 4 (10:34):
Yep, too low.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Period.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
What did he say that.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
I'm mad because this is too.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
Low, this is too low? And then I think that
that's when they instigated the second maybe the second tie
of next year, yeah, I think. And we were at
single ladies with children, we were expected to give a gross,
even though I owned a house and I was trying
(11:04):
to make a house payment and all that mess and
take care of my children. I expected to give a tithe,
full tithe of my gross, and I did, and that
I would become laid on bills because I was like
and I was like struggling financially and stuff like that.
(11:24):
I came out of that shit quick. But I don't
believe in tithe anymore. I believe in an offering that's
given from the heart, So I don't believe in tithing.
So when that happened with my daughter and him crying
to her, we didn't know what that was, you know,
(11:49):
we don't know where that stemmed. And then the flipping
of the houses happened, and then they started spending more time. Well,
all the kids were helping with flipping of the houses,
your dad was promising, and then all of the money.
They were in their teens by now. Then it became
it was just Ali and your dad in Sasha. Yeah,
(12:10):
I went over to the house for some reason. I
guess some feathers got ruffled with some parents because it
was just Ali, and maybe he was seeing if my
feathers were ruffled.
Speaker 4 (12:22):
I don't know, you mean just the two of them
at the house working on it together.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Well, Also because like I think you were alluding to
earlier and I don't know all the details, but I
own enough from my understanding, Dad was essentially paying Ali
for working on the house and like putting money like
sizeable mouth from what I understand for her, which I
(12:49):
think a part if you know, people could try to
chalk it up to jealousy, this or that. For me,
I wasn't overly concerned with it, but I just thought like, oh,
like I have and lots of other people have done
many many years of work and like received zero, just
expected to give. And then that was occurring and it
(13:10):
was so confusing because that was not Dad at all.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
It was very foreign, very uncommon. Yeah, because I mean
the guys did work. Y'all would come and fix stuff
at our house and and stuff like that, and y'all
did that because you were serving the Lord. You didn't
get paid for that.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
Well.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
And also I think it was presented also in a
way like like four alleys like college or this or that,
like you know, helping her prepare. And I was thinking,
like Dad never gave me like jack shit ever for anything,
like I never got anything like and then she's getting
(13:48):
like what amounts to an allowance, but like a big one.
So that was obviously weird.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
But I was like whatever, whatever, Yeah, and that's what
I did. I was like whatever. He pretty much brought
that up up to my attention, and he said, well,
it's because the others weren't putting in the work. That's
what he said to me. And he said something about
my girls, and I said, my girls don't need money,
(14:16):
and I just rolled my eyes out of him, and
I remember rolling my eyes. My counselor she was like,
you're rolling your eyes. Why And I'm like, I don't know,
because I do it constantly and I don't know why
I do, but I do. And so he said that
to me, and I said, my girls, if they do
(14:37):
work at their grandparents, they get money. They don't need
your money. And so that's what I said to him.
But I should have at that time was realized that
that was unfair. We had other children in the church
and he was showing favoritism to one and biblically, that
is not right. And I'm sure that Ali and him
(15:01):
would talk and she would bring up things about these children.
I hate to put that on a child, but I
know the other two children that were involved, and they weren't.
I don't think instigators, do you do you think that? Now?
Speaker 3 (15:19):
I was gonna say, like, to your point, I don't
like to attribute motives too much or any of that
for you know. But to your point, though, we spent
enough time around all of these people, we yeah, we
can't say for certain we we know what was going on.
That's how I feel about it. It's like, I'm not gonna,
(15:40):
you know, sign my name in blood to something about this,
but like, I'm pretty certain I know how this was
going down.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
And why wouldn't you if you were going to get
all the money? Yeah, I mean, why wouldn't you put
it in your favor? I mean I understand that part
of it. I wouldn't do it. So I think that
that's what it stemmed was when we started flipping houses.
That's where I think things. Some changes happened with Sasha
(16:12):
and your dad, and I think it stemmed back further
than that. But I don't know, because there was something
going on relationship wise, but I don't really understand it.
She was just jealous of people. Well, There was an
incident that was at one of the feasts. I don't remember, Matt,
but it was when we were doing the talent show.
(16:32):
We were all dancing and stuff, and I was stuck
with Sasha for some reason, and I can't dance, and
she kept changing the moves and I figured and I
couldn't get it down, and I think I cussed her out.
(16:53):
I can't remember, but I said some foul language in
the sanctuary because your sister talked to me and said
and said that I couldn't dance anymore. I couldn't dance.
Speaker 4 (17:05):
I couldn't do that. And You're like, oh, is that
all I have to do? I just drop an F
bomb and I get out of like the flags, and well, well.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Yeah, well it wasn't. It wasn't the flag. I think
I still had to do that, and I enjoyed that
as long as she wouldn't change. I took myself out
of that. I did do that on Friday nights. I
did do the flags, but I was an individual that
done the flags and stuff. It wasn't I wasn't under
her control. There was a lot of mirroring going on,
and I think that that was a lot of the
(17:37):
go thing. There was a lot of mirroring on people
because other people had feelings that they were having subside
to subside themselves, and they were mirroring it off of you.
That type of stuff. I think that that that was
happening a lot in our as. On my side as
a woman, she the dance thing happened. I got pulled
(18:01):
off of that, which I didn't care. I was embarrassed more.
I was embarrassed that I lost my temper. It just
didn't die with that. It was brought up, you know,
over and over and over again, so it just never died. Yeah,
and that was with all of us. I think, you know,
(18:22):
we did it to each other. So that's just something
that was part of that dynamic, that shaming. That was
part of your shaming was they would bring up your
past and what you did and everything.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
So you're noticing a change with Ali and Sasha with
the house stuff really and like you said there there,
I think other people have said this too. Something was
off even before that, but then it was a little
more out in the open when the house stuff was
(18:59):
really in full swing, which was I guess mid twenty
teen's type thing. So from there maybe hit on anything
in particular, you notice, but I definitely want you to
hit on like when it came to a breaking point
for you where you were like, okay, I'm talking about this,
I'm talking to him or whoever.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Okay, So with you remember hanging out to the church.
You were hanging out of church a lot. Oh yeah,
I was cleaning the church. She was over there. It
takes you some time to clean up the church. He
changed the locks was the first thing. Because you know,
my oldest she has lots of questions and if he
brings up something darren a sermon that's contradicting, she's going
(19:44):
to ask him. And but he told her, you're just
like your mother.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
It's gonna say. She would go to dad, much to
his chagrin. He did not appreciate her coming.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Yeah, and that was another thing. He labeled her as demonic.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
I think, oh yeah, I mean, not to get sidetracked,
but he's I remember there was a circumstance in which
he said that he saw some kind of like demonic
snake thing coming out from under where she was sitting,
or some nonsense like that, Like he was laying the
groundwork for how she was.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
But I think before that he even he was like,
she doesn't like me. And that was when she was young. Yeah,
so he was laying that groundwork. I didn't really know
about all that, I don't think, but when she was
in her teen she had a tone.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
Oh well, well she was and I guess probably still
is blunt, very blunt and blunt with him, and people
were not blunt with him. And I mean, obviously it
worked in the wrong way.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Yeah. I was kind of blunt with him, but he
know how to bouy his I think with me. Yeah,
and then he would probably talk about it afterwards, definitely, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I when the door got changed, the locks got changed,
that was a big flag for me.
Speaker 4 (21:14):
Did he tell anyone that he was doing that or
you just stumbled upon that?
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Basically we stumbled upon it because we cleaned the church
and we had to clean his office, right and he
changed the lock.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
So I think we've talked about this, not to get
like crazy in the weeds on the how the church
was laid out, but he had the sanctuary and then
a door that led to what we called like the
utility room, and then there was a door from there
into his office, and his office had an exterior door too.
But yeah, like I remember when the locks were changed
on that utility room which we had, it's called a
(21:49):
utility room. Like there were things in there, like the vacuum.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Was in there, and like we couldn't get there.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
Yeah, like mop.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
Buckets and stuff, and like, oh, suddenly we can't get
into get room. And it seemingly no reason not to
be able.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
To like yeah, and it was so contradicting because we
would clean the church, but then we would get in
trouble because the bathroom that was in his where the
office was, was not cleaned. Well, yes, because it was
locked and stuff, and you were in there all the time.
I guess it was when you were there, Matt. I
remember that you were there. I was getting nauseous because
(22:27):
she was there. You were there, and you were playing music,
and I knew that you were there because she was there,
but I didn't say that to you, but I knew
that you were being protective and that was a flag
to me because you were there and you were just
it was odd for you to be there. I think
I was. I you know, I played music on my
(22:50):
phone and everything. Yeah, I went and talked to you
about Explosions in the Sky that band. I had talked
to you some time before that, and I think you
started playing it. Explosion Is in the Sky is one
of their songs. And I went in there because I
knew that song and I was talking to you. But
it was just a flag to me that you were there,
(23:13):
and you stayed there the whole time I cleaned the church,
and that she was there.
Speaker 4 (23:18):
And then but was she in the Dad's office?
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Was in the office. She was in the office. I
think that after the that was after the futon. Somehow
I found out about the futon. I don't remember how
there was a futon in the office. And this the
reason that that's a red flag. You remember that couch
that was in the mission room. Yes, okay, so people
(23:44):
in our you know, people would get tired in our
congregation and they would go and fall asleep on the couch.
And your dad got rid of it, because people fall
asleep on the couch there in services, So we got
rid of it. And I'm like, what the hell are
we having a couch in the in there for? And
you'd be laying down and why does that need to
(24:06):
be happening? And then the I don't know, when only
she could pray for him. That was a red flag.
Your mama was so torn, she was so torn and everything,
and I could tell that was another red flag to me.
(24:32):
That last fiece that we attended, we had this worship
service and your mom was there and Sasha was there
and Ali because they're going to make sure that if
anything happened, they were going to go back to your dad. Yeah,
I'm sure they were just there to tell on people sometime,
and I don't remember when it happened. Your mom asked
(24:53):
me how I knew that my ex was cheating on me?
Speaker 4 (24:57):
Oh, my goodness, know what.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
I knew that was coming. I know when you were
talking about it. I knew that's what mom was going
to say. I don't think i'd heard that before.
Speaker 4 (25:06):
But yeah, she had no one to talk to. She
had to really air these suspicions.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Or and that was such she was so brave to
do that she did. I mean she didn't. Maybe she
felt safe with me because by then I had read
lots of self help books and I read a book
called Radically Honest by this psychiatrist. I remember talking to
(25:42):
the roommate of Sandy about it, and I remember telling him,
I just want to be radically honest. That's the way
I'm going to be from now on, and I'm not
going to be the middle person to these that's crap.
Speaker 4 (25:55):
Yeah, when she asked you that, did you Did she
say that in a context of I'm wondering for myself
or what? Did it seem more genera.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
It was an odd time, it was random, So I
didn't really I said, I caught him. I caught him,
and I kind of knew inside I felt it. Yeah,
and that was a red flag. So I had all
this going on and stuff, and had.
Speaker 4 (26:28):
You already suspected I mean, were you already thinking what
is going on between them? Or was that a tipping
like a tip off that maybe you should pay closer
attention to that relationship.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
I did start paying closer attention to the relationship. It
was after that happened in the sanctuary with your mother,
and Sasha was grinning the entire time. I forgot to
bring that up. Oh yeah, let's go.
Speaker 4 (26:55):
Back to that because we're talking about the December seventh, right, which.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
Which that December seventh, twenty nineteen, is you know what
you were talking about at the top of this episode
where you know, we talked about it before, were dad.
It's like, in front of everybody, reprimanded mom. And it
was a huge deal for a lot of people, including
you for sure.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
And it was so I was coming out of my
pew and trying to get by and I came in
on this whatever was going on, and she had that
you know, that grin Sasha, and she was like, Oh,
you don't have to you don't have to apologize and
(27:37):
stuff and being soft spoken, and if you know Sasha,
she'll rip your head off, because she's ripped my head
off a couple of times. And your dad's yelled, I mean,
has a very aggressive tone towards your mother, and he
does it towards Sasha, big red flag, and I'm like,
what the shit is going on? And I didn't find
(27:57):
out what was going on till we did the meeting,
which was a month later, what exactly all that mess was.
Because I went and had that meeting with him because
it was tear me up. I was talking to my
friend who's outside the congregation and she said, it sounds
like an emotional affair.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
I wasn't thinking that he was having an affair, but
now that things were happening things that y'all had talked about.
It was more than an emotional affair. There was there
was It wasn't a relationship, you know, he was he
was cheating on your mom. Yeah, I want to put that.
(28:41):
I want to put that out there. He was the cheater, yeah,
one hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
And we'll never know the extent of the physical part,
which yeah, I mean is irrelevant. It's relevant, but not
fully to your point, Like we know enough about the
emotional and the little bit we do about the physical
to know like, yeah, this wasn't just an emotional affair,
like they were having an affair, and if it continued,
(29:11):
and it may have since then, I'm sure.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
I don't know Rosvelt. I don't know, but I'm not
friends with him on Facebook.
Speaker 4 (29:19):
And to be frank, like, whether if there was penetration
or not is a very little consequence in the whole
scheme of what was going on between the two of them.
It really doesn't change anything to me.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
No, it doesn't. No, once you once you cuashed that
line that you're with each other multiple hours of the
day in a lock, take it elsewhere, room and elsewhere,
that is cheating. You've already stepped over that line. But
I've heard that he has said that she cheated first.
(30:01):
That is not the case.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
Yeah, I think, and you may know, I think he
not to get on the side thing here, but I
can't help them. I think he tried to equate her
having lunch with a guy that I think we've called yeah,
mom having lunch with a guy that we've called Teddy
(30:25):
Bear on the podcast, so you might know we've talked
about him several times. Ye, like a very lovable southern
country boy, like love him. He's I don't know, a
little bit older than me, I don't know, thirty nine
now or something like that. Like, she had lunch with
him when all of this was kind of going down,
and I remember at the time he tried to equate
(30:46):
that with what he was doing with Sasha, which to
everybody was like, you are out of your mind.
Speaker 4 (30:52):
Also like, but it's ridiculous because he doesn't even believe that.
I mean, he is just throwing as much shit against
the wall as he can to reflect from what he's
doing exactly.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
And that's why I wanted to definitely put that in
the podcast, that he was the cheater. Emotionally, he had
left that role as a husband for your mom, you
know she was you remember the altar. Yeah, your mom
would lay on the altar like multiple times, and it
(31:31):
was because she had harsh feelings towards Sasha. She was struggling.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
This what you're talking about when you went to meet
with that. Roughly, when was that he did?
Speaker 1 (31:45):
It was in January, so it was a month later.
Speaker 4 (31:48):
Have you just been thinking about this for that whole
month and observing and getting more concerned?
Speaker 1 (31:56):
Yes, yes, well I don't There was one time, and
I don't know when this happened. I can't remember. I
used to work out and stuff. I used to go
on the trails and everything, and I would see his
car there and I messaged him, but she was there too.
One time that both of their cars were there, I
(32:16):
took a picture. It was up on you know, the
hilltop of o Post the bike trails. Yeah, okay, so
both of their vehicles were there, So I met. I
took a picture to my and sent it, and I
sent it I think to myself of both of their
cars being there at the same time, and I think
(32:38):
I messaged him I have a message, and I asked
him if he was up on the trail, and he said, yes,
I'm just meditating. So there's a red flag there. Why
is he there with this woman that it's been doctrinated
into us that you do not be left alone with
(33:00):
and id an individual like another opposite sex. God, we
I couldn't even go have freaking coffee and talk to
Sans without people thinking I had feelings for him or
like people's pages, without me having feelings for people, I
couldn't go have coffee. And at that time, Mitchell only
(33:20):
had one coffee shop. I think we had a conversation.
Me and Sans had a conversation, and not long after that,
I got a call and why am I having Why
am I going to the coffee shop? Why am I
spending some mu's time there? Well, that was my outlet
because I had to deal with you people. That was
my outlet.
Speaker 4 (33:40):
I turned to coffee.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
I turned to coffee, and I've read. I was reading.
I was reading multiple, multiple books at the same time,
just to.
Speaker 4 (33:50):
But honestly, why do you have to defend yourself from
being at a coffee shop? You know what I mean?
It's just so insane.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
It is at a it. I was pissed at the
time having to explain myself. But there was a lot
of assumptions.
Speaker 4 (34:07):
Someone was noticing your vehicle there, like or I mean,
how would they know?
Speaker 2 (34:15):
I was going to say, not.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
What I point fingers at people, but I'm.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
Sure that I'm gonna you don't want to put fingers,
but I'm gonna no. I mean, definitely what happened is
that sorry Sandy, but Sandy would tell somebody that you
had come and that somebody would take it upon themselves
(34:40):
to call to correct you, which is like a tale
as old as Crusader church time.
Speaker 4 (34:45):
So it was it a telling as in, I've got
to tell on this person, or a casual mentioning, oh
I saw Brittany today.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
Somewhere in between. I don't think it was to tell
on but just to be like, oh, yeah, here, I'm
going to divul everything that's happened in my day to you.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
Yeah. But that was that was taught. That was taught,
you know, that was that was what we and he
was still new somewhat and everything, and he really cared
about I think that was his that we had clicks,
so that was part of his circle. So and that
(35:22):
and I mean, I don't I don't have any hard
feelings about that. I like deep converse conversations. I like
deep conversations and stuff, and that's how I'm attracted to people.
That's what I look for in a person. Someone I
can have deep conversations, because I had that with my kids,
and it would just be it would fit, O would fit,
(35:44):
you know, I wouldn't have to have that.
Speaker 4 (35:47):
The coffee shop issue was that that you were you
were having conversations with Sandy while you were there because
he was working there, and it was like, oh, you
have feelings for him.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
I think that it was a time when we I
think that we started talking about politics and stuff. He
was there by himself, I think at the time, and
I was trying, and I was and I did. I
talked to Sandy and everything, and I don't know when
that was. That was before that was before all the
love movement things. We found out we liked certain musics,
(36:22):
like we had music in common, but it was it
was always it was always that police sneed to control you,
like they thought I had feelings for Teddy Bear, and
I did not. I did not have feelings for him.
So he's a He's a very caring guy, sweet guy, pure,
(36:45):
you know. I have feelings for him as a brother.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
Now, And I just y it was better to have
conversation with men outside of crusade because I you know,
I talked to guys outside of crusade, and I had
an easier conversation with them, but there was no replication.
You know, it didn't come back to me. Yeah, it
wouldn't come back to bite me in the ass. So
(37:13):
that's what I did, is I would talk to people
outside of crusade. I couldn't really conversate with the guys
in Crusade because of that and that rule, and that
it would come back to me and I would have
to go through a conversation and I didn't want to
have to deal with it. I didn't want to have
to So if if I did have feelings for if
(37:38):
I did have feelings for people, I would just cut
it off.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
You know, that's probably why I was so easy to
come into this faith. Was that and I started rocking waters.
You know, when things were happening, I think your dad started,
I don't know, the guys were having some issues. They
wanted to be married, Like gave a sermon and he
basically said that I couldn't get married why is that
(38:07):
because of my age and that I couldn't reproduce?
Speaker 4 (38:12):
He thought I couldn't reproduce.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
I was still to I mean technically I could have.
I could have reproduced.
Speaker 4 (38:19):
Did he say that outright? If you are, you know,
past at the point of child bearing?
Speaker 1 (38:26):
You know?
Speaker 3 (38:27):
He said that he was not going to marry anybody
if they were not planning on hell and happy children.
Speaker 4 (38:36):
Yes, which would mean that he wouldn't support a courtship
as well.
Speaker 3 (38:41):
Like if somebody, if you had gone to him for
a courtship and he knows that either you can't or
don't want to, don't intend to have kids, nonsense, Yes,
not gonna happen.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
Yes, not going to happen. Yeah, Yeah, because I went
after I went to him afterwards, and that's what he said.
He said, well, I won't bless it. You can get married,
but I won't bless it. That was a big thing. Well,
if he wouldn't bless me so much, I stood my
ground and I said, well I'm going to study this.
(39:15):
But that happened and I closed myself off. In moments,
I would talk to the single guys, but I pretty
much cut that off.
Speaker 3 (39:28):
That whole dynamic obviously explains enough. It doesn't cover all
of it, it explains enough. Why you know, you were
talking about seeing dads and Sasha's cars at this place
and the church stuff that that was enough for you
to be like, Okay, so I'm dealing with this and
then you're doing this.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
Yeah, so I have all this stuff that's going on,
and then I have this and the scripture that's going
through my head, the appearance of evil that it just
got worse with them and she going back to Sasha.
And I was at the church cleaning. Of course, that's
when I got trouble for cleaning all the time, and
(40:12):
we had to delegate who was going to clean.
Speaker 4 (40:15):
Did you start cleaning more because of that? Okay, I
don't think so.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
It was between me and my oldest daughter. We cleaned,
and but I guess we were there too much. But
I think that this incident happened. I cleaned the church
there on Thursday or Friday. They were there. Of course,
she got pissed with him for some reason. She drew
willed tires down the road. Your dad was right behind
(40:43):
her right and opened the door in his truck. And
I opened the door to see what the crap's going on,
And so I opened the door and that's when I
see her vehicle and then I see him right behind.
He said that Asha said I'm leaving. I'm never coming back.
She threatened, God help us. We've all been better off.
(41:10):
And then you're he said, but your mom had said,
I'm glad she's not coming back to your father. Okay,
put him into a spin.
Speaker 3 (41:24):
Okay, so let's go. Let's rewind just like one moment.
The thing with mom publicly happens in December. You're you've
been noticing things and it gets to a boiling point
for you.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
Yes, I think that happened like that week of that December,
the spunning off with Asa, okay, and then your dad
went after okay, and then so I'm an alert, like
the next that Sabbath day, and then all this shit happens.
I'm like, what the crap do? And so I'm told
(42:00):
tail spin and that he's having an affair with her.
That turns me one hundred and eight.
Speaker 4 (42:06):
Do the car chase?
Speaker 1 (42:08):
You're like, yeah, yes, so but then the in the meeting,
which is like a month later, that's when he brings
that to my attention. This is what was going on.
This is what your mother said. Well, your mom's told
him that I'm glad she's not going to be back,
and I don't know if that's true, because he's alive.
Speaker 4 (42:29):
She probably said.
Speaker 3 (42:32):
So in the in the month or so between, you know,
you seeing that display, you know, outside the church with
the squall and tires, and then you see what happens
with Mom and Sasha and Dad publicly in front of everybody,
walk us through kind of like that month. I know
(42:53):
you you decided at some point to meet with Dad
in his office, right, so you and you wanted to
take I think you've met.
Speaker 1 (43:03):
I didn't want to meet it. I didn't want to
meet in his office.
Speaker 3 (43:09):
That you didn't want, No, I did not, but you
you wanted to like do it up right from what
I recall, So you.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
Yes, my oldest tells me the scripture that you need
to do it biblically, and I said, what do you mean?
She said, you need to confront him with two witnesses.
That's what it says in the Bible. And so that's
why I said the two witnesses. And I didn't trust
your dad. Yeah, by then, so I reached out in
(43:43):
a group message to matt to you, and to brought
to Jen's husband and to Michael, and Michael said he
would go.
Speaker 4 (43:54):
And Matthews just did you.
Speaker 1 (43:57):
He didn't answer that.
Speaker 4 (44:00):
I'll go back and answer it.
Speaker 1 (44:04):
Yes, I don't think that, and I wrote, Matt, I
don't know if you can. But I wrote a whole thing,
but I deleted it and it's on my It's on
my little white little laptop in there. I don't know
if there's a way you can get it. But that
was my whole thought process. All right, that was going on,
(44:26):
But I don't know how to. I can see if
Shelby can retrieve it, and then I can send it
to you maybe.
Speaker 2 (44:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:32):
Yeah, she said kind of a geek, thank you are.
So I was like, okay, they're having worship on Thursdays.
I'll have it at his house because everyone will be
at worship and nobody will interrupt us, meaning Sasha or Ali.
Speaker 2 (44:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
I didn't give a crap about anyone else. And so
my second person, because no one else took the ticket,
was my friend Sissy and part of it. So he
started this love movement right, part of me needed to
be hugged by people, and it was okay, to have
(45:19):
conversations with opposite sex, that type of thing. Because I
at the time I probably was. I had read the
book by Timothy Keller, The Meaning of Marriage, and he
was having a problem with this his congregation not getting
married and they just stayed single and he was concerned,
(45:40):
and so him and his wife with this book. And
it was good for it was good for singles, it
was good for people that were married and stuff. And
I learned a lot from that book.
Speaker 4 (45:48):
But it was just.
Speaker 1 (45:50):
When you're in part of crusade, there's that segregation of
men and women so hard because as a woman you
can't speak. But I did speak out against things. Part
of me would speak out when it didn't make sense
(46:13):
to me. I told him I want to meet at
his house, and it was because I needed a place
where I could kind of sit down on the floor
or something and not have to sit in a chair
and be combined. I needed a place where I could
move and get up and not be combined in the office.
So he waited till the last minute, which threw me
(46:38):
completely off, and moved it to the church.
Speaker 4 (46:43):
Wait was mom at this meeting. She was not okay.
Speaker 3 (46:47):
So so it's.
Speaker 1 (46:48):
You and sissy and Michael and your dad.
Speaker 4 (46:53):
Yeah, and well, did Michael understand what was going on?
Did you? Did you talk to him ahead of time
and tell him why you wanted this meeting? Your sister
called me.
Speaker 1 (47:06):
Maybe she was doing a little investigating on her own
to figure out why. But she called me like the
day before, and she seemed concerned that.
Speaker 4 (47:17):
I was doing this, and you told her why.
Speaker 1 (47:22):
Yes, we sit down in his office and he brings
up Teddy Bear, and I said, I said, I already
took care of that at the of the night of
And I'm like, what the crap, how did you hear
about it? That's what I was thinking in my mind.
(47:44):
So he throws me off with that, and I said,
it has nothing to do with Teddy Bear. I said,
I already confronted that situation, I said, and then I
confronted him afterward to make sure that he didn't have
any hard feelings. So, because I at that time, I
was adulting and I was take care of my own shit,
I'd realized that I could take care of my own stuff,
(48:06):
and I wasn't being the middle person. Somewhat, I still
cared about what your sister thought. I was just struggling
with that shit. So I said, no, it's about Sasha.
And that's when I said, what happened in the sanctuary
(48:27):
and her coming to your office and being here for
multiple hours of the day without anyone else. I need
to talk to you about this. And I don't know
if I called him out that he was having an affair.
I can't remember because that was so dramatic for me,
but I pretty much said that he was having an affair.
(48:49):
I don't know if I just came out and asked him,
are you having an affair with Sasha. I don't think
that I did that because I knew your dad, but
I think that I said I brought up the incident
with where I work and stuff, and I was going
from my notes, and he said she's my daughter and
(49:15):
I said, no, she's not. And he said, God said
that she's my daughter. I said, but she's not. Biologically,
she's not your daughter. And he believed that adopting a
child did not make them your children. I brought that
to his attention, and he said, but God has told
(49:36):
me that she is my daughter, along with Teddy Bear
as his son. I kind of argued back and forth
on that. I think a little bit. I'm not for sure.
And what he brought to my attention was, you're the
first person that has questioned me about this. And I
(49:56):
kind of glanced over at Michael and I said, why
did you tell her to leave during the sanctuary when
we were in the dining hall?
Speaker 3 (50:07):
Mom, like, why did you tell?
Speaker 1 (50:10):
I remember bringing that to his attention, and he said
that she was not in the right spirit. And then
he brought up that Sasha he had cast out several
demons from her, and he brought up that your mom
wasn't in the right spirit. And I said, I don't
think it's her. I think it's Sasha that's not in
(50:31):
the right spirit. I think I brought that back to
him and he said, I don't think you're in the
right spirit. And then I try to you know me,
I'm just like and I'm trying to figure out where
I am with my notes, and I said the movement
I brought. I brought up the movement. So I was like, well,
(50:53):
this ain't going anywhere. So I brought up the movement
because I said, something unpure is happening in this movement.
Because something had happened and somebody was dancing with somebody
and your dad, like your dad pushed them apart. It
just didn't feel the same and it was felt unpure
now to me. And I questioned that. I said, it
(51:17):
doesn't feel the same than it did at the beginning
when we started it. So and he goes, well, what
do you mean? And I said, it just something's off
with it, and by then I was so, I was
just I don't know, I couldn't. I can't remember everything
that I said. A lot of things didn't get answered
(51:41):
to me, other than that Sasha had some demons and
he pulled them out and that she was his daughter
and it's not inappropriate because they are father and daughter
and that's all that he said. And I argued with
that and said that she's not she's not your daughter though,
(52:03):
and he argued back and forth about that, and I
was trying to tell him that it was inappropriate. But
then I just got pissed and I said, this isn't
going anywhere. And I probably started to cry because I
was so pissed, you know how I am. And I
was so pissed, and I shut my thing and I said, well,
(52:26):
I'm going to get one thing done here. I said,
I'm going to Oklahoma and I'm going to visit with
a church that was in Oklahoma.
Speaker 4 (52:34):
In that meeting, did Michael or Cissy give any input.
Speaker 1 (52:41):
Cissy was trying to help when I couldn't really get
out what I was talking about exactly with the whole
love movement, and that it had changed, and I felt
that things were it was getting weird, things were happening.
There was a time during a Thursday worship or a
(53:02):
Sunday worship, we're there by ourselves and you go from
you can't have really a lot of contact with the
opposite sex that you can lay on the stage and
hold each other to your dancing with each other of
the opposite sex, and it's moved to that it's pushed,
(53:22):
especially with the younger with the younger ones that really
do us in a bread flag. I guess to me
it was just at a time when he had separated
two individuals Darren worship, and I had seen it that
(53:43):
was upsetting to me because we're in the middle of
worshiping God. There shouldn't be anything inappropriately happening, and why
are you pushing people away from each other? That I
wanted to bring that up to in the meeting. He
just kept pushing things aside, I think, and he was
(54:05):
he was getting me frustrated at the time. Now I
know that he did that on purpose. He wasn't he
didn't care. He was more caring that I was questioning
his motives with Sasha. I think the thing on the
(54:26):
stage when your mom asked me, how did you know
that he was cheating? Was all in this kind of
close together. So I'm taught. I'm a patterned person and
I link things together, and but that still didn't move
me to leave.
Speaker 4 (54:46):
I find it interesting because people are talking about his
motives for spending all this time with her, but outside
of motives, I don't care, you know what I mean.
It's like, so what, let's say you actually do have
good motives, which we all know is not the case,
but it's still hurting your spouse, and you know, like
(55:10):
he's like well aware knows it, does not care. He's
going to do what feels good to him.
Speaker 3 (55:17):
Well. And also, as we all three know and other
people two, it wasn't just that he was going to continue.
He was going to continue, and he was going to
rub it in her face and everyone else's. But she
did gleefully which to me was one of the worst parts.
It's like, you know, even if you think you're right
(55:39):
to do it, like why are you going out of
your way to rub it in these this person's face
or other people, which he did, Like he just there's
no excuse. Like I was there, I saw how he operated.
Speaker 1 (55:52):
Well, I think that it was instigated because it made
that that relationship okay, yeah, movement. I think that it
was instigated because of that.
Speaker 2 (56:04):
Sense.
Speaker 1 (56:05):
It gave him that well, I sat beside this person
and I rubbed their arm and stuff like that, and
he put it that he's doing it to everyone, right,
it puts him in that category. I danced with everyone
that type of thing, So that's what I think. I
think it gave him an excuse to continue with that,
(56:30):
and it didn't stop. You know, I can't even watch Chosen,
that TV show. I can't watch it because he put
Sasha in the category of Mary Magdalene. I remember that
sermon and I slammed my Bible so mad everything, so
(56:54):
I was just it was all of it together. And
I remember cleaning the church, which the last time I prayed.
I went and prayed on stage and then I tapped
the doorway to the sanctuary, and I prayed for everyone
to come out. I prayed for all y'all. I didn't
want y'all to be stuck in whatever was happening, because
(57:16):
that by then I knew I left maybe two weeks
before David did. But I didn't know that thou that
was happening with David and that he was researching.
Speaker 4 (57:29):
Had you come to the conclusion that he was a narcissist,
because I mean, that was the impetus for.
Speaker 1 (57:36):
Actually I came to the conclusion. I came to the
conclusion that Sasha was a narcissist. She was a narcissist,
And I knew something was off with your dad, but
I know I got a lot of that harm, you know.
And but I was still somewhat visiting with some people
(57:57):
that were in our congregation after I guess it was
after the split, and they were putting her in a
category as a victim, and I was like, she is
not a victim. She is not a victim because I
knew her, and she had harmed me emotionally and put
me in a place of emotional and emotional trauma, you
(58:20):
know that I had to deal with. She was still
messaging me after I'd left. I had to block her
on phone. I had to block her on Facebook. Ali
has been snooping on my Instagram and I blocked her recently.
So I think that people what they need to take
(58:41):
out of this is Yeah, I don't know if you
see it at first, but if they're you know, they're
forcing things that you don't understand and you're not comfortable
with on you step back, step back, and you can leave,
(59:03):
which is the hardest thing on earth, because you love
other people. It's a hard thing. There's somewhered flags. You know.
If you're having to spend every day and you like
the Sabbath, you cann't miss. You couldn't miss, and if
you miss, then they question if you're falling away. Right,
(59:29):
So if you can't miss a plan, you can't miss
or act be absent or just in the last lounge, man,
I couldn't miss the last lasted lounge. I had to
be there or they were talking about me. Why isn't
she here? If that stuff's happening in your congregation, you
(59:50):
need to step back and realize that's not who Jesus is. Right,
he wasn't like that. He went to the bars and
he went to the prostitutes, and he loved them unconditionally,
and he talked to them respectfully. Even Paul did people
(01:00:12):
of different faith. So if you can't read something out
of your congregation, or you can't go visit another congregation,
that's a red flag. It's a red flag, and people
need to know that that's a red flag to think
about what your faith is. Because Paul spoke to It's
(01:00:38):
like my favorite chapter in the Bible. He spoke to
people that worshiped many gods call the little g goods,
and he worshiped, and he went to them, and he
spoke to them in a respectful manner. I wrote letters
to people and everything that I probably shouldn't have because
(01:00:58):
they were a different faith than me, and somewhat condemned them.
I just hope someone takes something for it.
Speaker 4 (01:01:05):
They will. We hear that almost daily. Yeah, just kind
of what keeps us going.
Speaker 1 (01:01:11):
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