April 2, 2025 • 32 mins
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In Ep. 58: "Breaking the Shackles," we conclude our follow-up conversation with Blake Moorer as he reflects on his healing journey and the work it takes to break free from the lasting grip of high-control religion. Blake shares his continued struggles, breakthroughs, and what true freedom looks like for him now.
Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok for updates, and support the podcast on Patreon or Buy Me a Coffee to help us continue sharing these important stories!
#TrueCrimePodcast #CultSurvivor #ReligiousTrauma #ExposingCults #FaithDeconstruction #CultStories #SpiritualAbuse #ChurchAbuse #LifeAfterCult #BreakingFree #SurvivorStory #TrueStoryPodcast #PodcastRecommendations #HealingJourney #CultAwareness #ExposingTheTruth #CourageToLeave #ManipulationAndControl #ApplePodcasts #SpotifyPodcast
In Ep. 58: "Breaking the Shackles," we conclude our follow-up conversation with Blake Moorer as he reflects on his healing journey and the work it takes to break free from the lasting grip of high-control religion. Blake shares his continued struggles, breakthroughs, and what true freedom looks like for him now.
Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok for updates, and support the podcast on Patreon or Buy Me a Coffee to help us continue sharing these important stories!
#TrueCrimePodcast #CultSurvivor #ReligiousTrauma #ExposingCults #FaithDeconstruction #CultStories #SpiritualAbuse #ChurchAbuse #LifeAfterCult #BreakingFree #SurvivorStory #TrueStoryPodcast #PodcastRecommendations #HealingJourney #CultAwareness #ExposingTheTruth #CourageToLeave #ManipulationAndControl #ApplePodcasts #SpotifyPodcast
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
The world tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
The Worldwide Church of God presents Herbert's w Armstrong and.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
I am here to bring you the truth.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
No one else is telling you the things that God
is telling you through me.
Speaker 4 (00:16):
He's making through me the Lord.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Let me experience what it is to be a new bride.
Speaker 4 (00:23):
You know, I'm not worried about what I'm about to say,
though it may be graphic.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
We're coming to the Lord and if you can take it,
beyond the veil is the chamber. That's the wedding chamber.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
The Lord told me that.
Speaker 4 (00:37):
But from then on, visions begin to come. When this
comes up on me, it produces the vision. I'm able
to tell people what's wrong with them, what they must
do in life, the sins that they are holding back
in their lives.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Welcome back to the Cult Next Store podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Maddie here.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Before we get started with today's episode, reminder, follow us
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(01:16):
follow that link, click record and send us a voice message.
Also shout out to Shanda and Chase or Chase and
Shanda pick your poison, Heather Bartlett and Carla. These are
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(01:38):
really cool sticker. Or you can go for five dollars
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get the ad free episodes and the holographic sticker, just
no shout out on that five dollars tier. Not going
to do a rating and review today. I want to
jump into today's episode. We have a relatively short one.
This is the rest of our conversation with Blake Moore.
Let's take a listen.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Oh are we showing our tattoos place?
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Like?
Speaker 1 (02:04):
I didn't really how the whole sleeve man?
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Yeah, it was from here to here. All of this
is new. It's like a long, long, not quite finished.
I built my own Polynesian story. All of these are
symbols that have to do with leaving the cult and
(02:30):
forging a new life.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Nice. Do you have it on your chest?
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Too? No?
Speaker 1 (02:35):
No, I thought you did.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
No, it's okay, all right.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Yes, Sarah kind of likes the idea of.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Blake's just naked over here on the podcast, like, no shirt,
here's my cult story.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Well that is what.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
That's cool. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
I was gonna say not the sidetrack and do a
whole segment on tattoos.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
But I've wondered.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
I don't know if I don't think I've asked you
about this, Ashley, probably probably because I know the answer.
But Blake are It's hard for me to describe, but
is there the process of getting a tattoo? Not to
say or imply that I enjoy it, but is there
(03:22):
something about the process of getting a tattoo for you
that is therapeutic, not just having the artwork, but the
actual tattooing.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
No. I so our first tattoo was like script, like
I did the Lord of the Rings quote and like
my shoulder right there the script like you know, it's
things a little but it was like not that big
a deal. And I remember Sarah she got hers on
(03:54):
her wrist, saying that like the pain kind of felt
good compared to being numb, like felt to feel something
like there was this combating like a numbing aspect. And
then she has this it's funny, I'm answering for her. First,
she has this long standing innate desire to like express
(04:17):
herself artistically, like so clothes and fashion and hair, and
then like, and she's always liked tattoos, and I always
thought they were cool. And I never felt like super
super repressed and like a really intense conservative, you know, upbringing,
but I guess a little bit. And then I also
(04:39):
thought it was dumb. Your dad's stands on tattoos with
like the same scripture you're gonna say that's evil, You're
you're extracting, but it's okay to do ear rings and
like whatever, like it did. None of that stuff makes
any sense. So I always thought it was dumb. And
then so I went through this period that has it
(05:02):
completely abated, but it was more intense. No, we got
our first tattoo. It was on Sarah's birthday. It might
have been the year before last, two years ago, and
there was this period of there was like a real
fu type feeling and mindset, but not as I feel
(05:24):
like it's not as cliche as your standard rebellious teenager
doing something that their parents that want them to do.
It really felt much much deeper to me than that.
It wasn't about there's not there's actually not anything I
like about the process.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
It's like taaking back sim autonomy, right, Definitely. It's not
like a so and so it's like you took this
from me, I'm taking this back kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Maybe, yeah, there there's definitely something to that. And it
went hand in hand with like this is interesting too,
because like your dad was prone to curse in some
respects from the lectern but it went hand in hand
with like listening to music that I really wanted to
listen to with f bombs and whatever. That like felt
(06:13):
just good to say. You know, this was like I
don't care anymore. Like there was like this breaking of
like shackles of I'm done being told what to do,
is what it is kind of like how it all
encompass is like, especially if it seems arbitrary and like
total bowl, it's like I'm completely done. And I recognize
(06:36):
that that can be like a really intense pendulum swing,
and I don't. I don't think that I swung very
very hard, Like you know, I could be on hard
substance abuse at the moment. That'd be an interesting coping strategy.
So it definitely can be bad. But no, for me,
there was this, really there was. It's it's partially like
(06:57):
something like if you've always wanted to do it and
being told you can do it, well, now I can
do it. I want to do it. But it was
much much deeper than that. There was this and I
wanted like some specific meaning behind the whole thing. Like
it was. It wasn't flippant to me, like a lot
of a lot of people in tattoo shops, the artists
like they've just slapped images all over the body, saying
(07:21):
with like some like maybe with like zero thought to
this thing. Yeah, like some people, I'm just like why
did you even do that? You know, just for the
heck of it. And then I'm the other way, I'm
the exact extreme opposite of that, like a lot of
overthinking into meaning and like what you want and like
(07:42):
being critical of it not being done perfectly and whatever,
and I right now it's permanent. But uh no, so
there's nothing I like about the process because I hate
trying to figure Ashley, you know what this is like,
I hate trying to figure out perfectly exactly what it
should be and how should be and the whole thing.
Like that's it's stressful and it's permanent and it never
(08:05):
ends up exactly like I wish. And the first tattoos
were like super easy script and they were no big deal.
But once you get into like a lot of shading
and like two hours in, like all of your skin
is are all like this actually really sucks and I
hate it. Also, I've learned this tattoo artists. They're very
(08:25):
artistic and kind of whimsical and like when they're feeling it,
everything's great, and then when they're tired, they just like
they're like I'm done, and like the quality can go downhill,
or like they'll just like, yeah, we're done here, and
you just gotta you catch them in the right moment
and then it should be a short session. Anyway, that's
too long an answer for I don't enjoy the process.
(08:50):
But there was at first, especially there was a real
like you said, reclaiming of not reclaiming claiming. It wasn't reclaiming,
it was claiming autonomy and uh, decision making and a
real kind of intense like screw you to ever telling
(09:11):
me what I could and couldn't do. I just it
sounds it does. It sounds like cliche teenage behavior, but
there's something very I don't know, deep and got or
old of that.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
I mean, I think I think we were denied certain
developmental steps and stages, especially in adolescence in early adulthood,
and so I do think we have to experience some
of those things like I've gone through. I've gone through
(09:46):
some things where I even my therapist pointed out, you know,
because I did different color hair, which I don't think.
I don't think that's like weird or anything, but it's
interesting that I only became interested in that when I
was like much older, whereas my daughter has been doing
that since she was like fourteen or something, you know.
(10:10):
But I would never have been allowed at fourteen, So
all of that was just kind of delayed. So I
think it's fine.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Oh yeah, definitely. Yeah. I'm not even like remotely not
okay with it first aim of it. Yeah, I just
I just mean to say that to me, it feels
like a much deeper thing than what you might typically
look at as like standard rebellious type. Yeah, I don't know,
standard preacher's kid type vibe. You know, it seems bigger
(10:43):
than that to me. I guess you do enjoy the process, Mattie.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
I do, you know, like with mine, Like the first
thirty minutes, I guess your body is given what it
you probably know much better than I do, and off
some kind of chemical and then at some point that
runs out.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
You know, what is it called the first thirty minutes?
It's fine, I think.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
For me, it's really really Yeah, the first thirty minute
that's like, oh, this is a bad idea kind of thing,
like why am I doing this again?
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Type thing?
Speaker 3 (11:18):
At first, you know where you're like, oh, this hurts
more than I remembered the last time. But then like
you hit a certain point where that kind of changes
and like your body kind of like settled in at
least my body does, where it's like, Okay, now it's
getting used to this feeling. But no on the kind
of the part about liking the process. Liking is probably
(11:39):
the wrong or too strong of a word, but I've
had the thought pretty much every time I've gone when
there's that pain where I can tell myself like no, no, no,
like I'm I'm not gonna tap out on this because
I've experienced much worse, like I've had that thought, and
then like it's almost like a train for myself where
(12:01):
it's like, oh, I can endure like plenty of things
and I can stick to something, which is it's funny,
not that this is at all the same as a tattoo,
but even I've found that growing my hair out has
been like therapeutic for me because I just decided that
I was gonna do it, and then I just stuck
to it, like I just didn't get my haircut. I
(12:23):
know that sounds so silly to be like, well, you.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Just didn't do you didn't do it.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
I just didn't get a haircut, But I was like
I was proving to myself in that process, like I
can do this thing and I can sustain it, and
a little bit like that with doing like a full sleeve,
like I can proving to myself like I can do
this even though it's painful, like I've had worse, I
can do this. This is not an issue. And that
(12:48):
has had a domino effect for me in other areas
of my life and work, where it's like, yeah, I
can do anything I need to do. Is what like
how I start to feel internally like I can do
whatever I need to do.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
That's funny you brought that up because I had that
exact thought at some point in a tattoo, where is
like this really hurts. And then it was like, but
I've been through way worse and that has carried over
to like other aspects of life, just things that are
very difficult sometimes just like yeah, but I've dealt with
a lot worse than this, so this is okay. Yeah.
I wouldn't have connected that specifically to tattooing, but I
(13:23):
did have that thought with a tattoo before.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
And Ashley, you just hate yours the whole time, don't you.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (13:32):
Yeah, I mean yes.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
See Ashley is more mentally healthy than we are, Blake,
so she is just like this hurts, I don't like this.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Well for me, that the exact opposite for you. For me,
like the first thirty minutes, it's like it stings, but
it's fine. For me. It's when the inflammation response kicks
in in my body and then like it's getting very sensitive,
like hour hour and a half, two hours in it's
getting especially if there's some shading with like a wide
gauge needle and it's a lot of color, and it's like, no,
this sucks.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
I think my issue has been my placement because I
have just you know, thought of where do I want this,
and I don't consider, oh, this place may have more
nerve endings and maybe more painful. And I go in
and I'm all like excited, and then I sit down,
I'm like, oh my god, that aren't so much worse
(14:27):
than what I was anticipating, you.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Know, after having after having done it, like I've been
shoulder ribs all up and down my own wrists. I
think there's only a couple of places that aren't super sensitive.
Like I think your shoulder is fine. I think most stuff.
I think there's there's just a lot of skin that
(14:49):
doesn't get a lot.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Of okay right here, like on my outside wrist, right
like by this bone that that hurt so much. Like
my whole entire face and head were like tingling. It
felt like she was like right on a nerve or something.
(15:12):
And I wasn't anticipating that. I'm just like I'm just
there to have fun. Like my daughter also got a
tattoo and I was like, my god. And then I
told Lynn because I just got kind of got quiet
because I was like, okay, let's just get this over with.
I can't carry on a conversation. And I told Lynn,
(15:34):
I'm like, that hurts so bad. She was like, well, yeah,
it hurts right there, and I'm just like, well, I
didn't even like look that up to see if that
was a painful spot. Now, the girl did say, like
right before the tattoo artist said, right before she started,
this is gonna staying pretty good because of where it is,
(15:54):
and like you don't have a lot of like cushion
right here, and I was I was like, yeah, you know,
it was still surprising, So it's okay. I don't regret it.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
I would do.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
I can't got it where you wanted it.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Yeah, and now it's over. It's just a memory.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Yeah. I'm trying to figure out if I've answered your question.
Speaker 5 (16:21):
I don't know how I'm doing and what I've there's
an episode title. I don't know how I'm doing.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
You know, sometimes i feel like I'm just not okay,
and I'll say that I'll be like I'm not okay,
but I don't know exactly why. It's like you said,
and you're like you wake up in a funk and
you're like, I don't know what the problem is here,
but yeah, there there's a problem, especially when you can
(16:58):
look at a lot of good circumstances and be like
I should be okay, like everything should be I should
feel good right now, But I don't, you know, it's
you know, I asked Naomi. I don't know. Maybe I
(17:19):
already told you this long time ago. It was I
don't remember what came up, but we were talking about something
and it made me wonder. I was like, well, I
think it was something that like I thought was like
no big deal, and I was like, no, that's that's
kind of a big deal. And I can't remember exactly
(17:40):
what instigated this question, but I wanted to know. I
was like, well, what what's the ranking? Then I was like,
You've dealt with, you know, hundreds of people with very
specific religious abuse type cases, and I was like, how
bad was this situation that I was in. I was like,
on a scale of zero, you know, like one like
(18:03):
I got offended in church, you know, church churt type
of thing, all the way up to cult drinking. Sanine together.
I was like on one to ten, I was like,
where did we fall? And she was like, definitely like
a nine, like pretty close to drinking Sanine, And I
was like for real, She's like yeah, and she said
(18:24):
that out of top five, like we definitely rank in
top five worst cases like stories she's personally dealt with.
And that actually was super helpful for me to hear,
because there is that that programming running of like it's
(18:50):
not that bad, like you're fine, you know, like you
what are you complaining about, type of type of scenario
or just the comparison, you know, just straight up beating
yourself up for falling apart. I don't know if anyone
else does that, probably, but just like just like absolutely
(19:13):
criticizing yourself and feeling like crap because you're falling apart emotionally. Yeah,
And so hearing that wait a minute, of course you're
falling apart, like this was really really messed up, and
to well, there's you another benefit to therapy. I really
(19:35):
take away from this episode to me is like everyone
please find a way to go get and there. But
you know what, absolutely careful there though, because I feel
like if you are not speak I mean depending on
your circumstances. If you're not speaking with someone that has
some specialty in like knowing what you're dealing with, it
(19:55):
might it might could be more harm than good. I
don't know. I've heard of pass stories about not dealing
with the best. I guess there's that's a fun story. Actually,
I tried before I met in Naomi a different I
tried what's the big online platform I recommend yes, I
(20:18):
tried them a couple of different times, and I don't.
I don't know. Maybe there's some great stuff out there.
I don't recommend it. I'm not leaving a one star
review or anything, but you do like a matching with
a matching with therapists, And I cycled through two or
three like really quickly, and really quickly. I was like,
(20:39):
this is absolutely not helpful to me. Like I got
criticized by one of them for a choice I've made,
and I strongly suspect based on what was said to me,
that that choice struck home like a personal nerve with
them in their life. Wow, And they were like against
(21:03):
it and kind of reprimanded me, and I was just
like absolutely, I just was so burned so fast, and
I was like, this is not what I need.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Well, that's notosed to be at all.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
I was really surprised, like it was. It was harsh
is too strong a word, but it was. I was
very raw and really messed up, and so it almost
felt harsh and like just being reprimanded at all. Like
it was. It was just really really bad and I
was just like, yeah, I can never talk to you again.
And then after that there was another one, sweet and kind,
(21:42):
and every session just felt like some cookie cutter, like
zero helpful, like ending with like some positive affirmation type
of thing. It just anyway, I'm not totally distanc better help.
But the point is is I think you could come
across there that are not helpful. Let's say that, yeah,
(22:03):
but that would be Yeah. My huge takeaway here is
I really don't understand how anyone's getting by without it,
because what was I saying about, Oh yeah, just hearing
the feedback, the assessment of your situation from a professional
(22:25):
and external perspective really really helped give perspective like permission
for you to not feel okay, permission to be like, yeah,
it makes sense that you're having a really really hard time.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
One thing that has been difficult for me. I think
is recognizing overwhelm and recognizing when I have maybe too
many things going on and too many stresses, because I
think that if for so long you're just you're just
(23:01):
dealing with whatever is thrown at you, and it's like
you said, you don't know until you're out of it,
you don't realize, like everybody isn't living this way, everybody
isn't under duress in all of these different areas of
their lives. And I think just living that way for
(23:23):
so long and having such like a heavy emotional burden,
and managing other people's feelings, managing your own, having lots
of obligations and expectations of you, all of that, even
though I have been out of this for so long now,
(23:44):
I'm realizing that I think because of that, I don't
always recognize when I'm actually overwhelmed and when I have
too much responsibility that I've taken on or allowed in
my life. And Toby actually the other day I was
(24:05):
telling him, like, how is feeling? And he said, well,
you have too much going on right now, You're overwhelmed.
And when he said I have too much going on,
I was like, do I like I have to like
look at all of this and like list out all
the things and then I'm like, well, I guess objectively
(24:25):
that is a lot, but I almost feel like the
reason why I don't easily recognize that has to do
with the trauma and this is just another instance that
I've found in my life how that is still at play.
I don't know if either of you feel that, but
(24:50):
we all just dealt with what was thrown at us,
and that was our.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
Job, right, I too feel like you have too much
going on? You do. I know you meant for us,
but I feel that you have so much going on.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
See to me, I'm just like, oh, I should be
doing these other five things? Why am I not doing it?
Speaker 2 (25:15):
You know?
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Like I was like crying because I'm like, it's my
life goal to write a book and I'm not writing it.
And if it was really a priority, like I would
be doing it right now. And that's when Toby was
just like, you have so much and.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
I'm like do I though, That's what I was trying
to describe earlier when I was talking about beating yourself
up for like not being okay or just not recognizing
the truth of the matter. Is like so many times,
like I'll do that. It's like like, how are you
not doing this better? And how are you how you
like miss faltered the cracks, yes and all this, and
(25:52):
it's just like I've had to have external perspective stuff
back and be like, dude, look at what you're doing
though with this thing, thing, this thing, this thing, and
this thing is like your plate is very full, yeah,
you know, and then you have to stop yourself from
comparing that plate to some other person's plate. We're like, well,
they're doing way more than me. It's like, well, yeah, maybe,
(26:13):
but there's better.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
Than good for them. Yeah, kind of like berating yourself
for not being productive that kind of thing, which I
know is not just in us definitely, but it definitely
gets amped up, you know. But that's a strategy learning
how to like, let me not I don't have to
(26:36):
be doing something right now.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
I don't have to be making some third time the
third time you've brought up something that I'm like, that's
a fantastic point that I would have forgotten. Is I
have had to learn to sit back and tell myself
it's okay, I'm having a bad day and my bass
line today is is low, and I'm not going to
get near as much productivity like I do. I beat
(27:01):
myself up for not feeling productive every single day. Yeah,
and if my day is like a real, real bad funk,
like I can tell the difference, like when I'm waking
up and dopamine is much lower or something, and there's
just the motivation is low. Everything feels negative, Like everybody
(27:21):
knows what this feels. Like what you want to do
is curl up on the couch and binge watch TV
with good snacks all day, Like that's what you want
to do. So when I've learned, when I feel like that,
I have to mentally give myself the permission. I'm bringing
the bar way down today. Like if I start my
day and do the exercise to get me moving and
then accomplish like the three necessities for the day, it's
(27:45):
okay if the rest of the day's a wash, Like
if I just get these three necessary things done, I'm
not going to be super productive today. And then on
the flip side, when I wake up and I'm feeling great,
I will be like today's a day to run with
it and make up for the next time I'm not
going to feel great and like I can be super
productive today and not like an unhealthy way, but like
(28:06):
just capitalizing on the good moments and then given yourself
permission to be like every daystes not going to be
a great day man. So it's okay if you're not
maximumly productive.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
Yeah, yeah, Ashley.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
That's a big deal. Like you have to remind yourself
or Sarah has to remind me.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
Well, I don't know how to take anything off my
plate right now, Like what would I take off?
Speaker 3 (28:37):
That's the problem, and I'll meditate about it.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
I will meditate to survive. That's right, yeh, meditating to
survive all th things on plate. It's like my time
by by myself.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Have you ever listened to the Four Hour work Week?
Tim Ferriss?
Speaker 1 (28:56):
Listen to it is.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
Reddit read it. It's a break. I do audio books, okay, listen?
Speaker 1 (29:02):
Well, no, Like, I know he has a podcast and
listens to some of the podcasts, but I didn't know
what it was called. And I have one book, this book.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
I think it was his first book. I think I
don't think it was. Yeah, but his whole thing is
like hacking the whole system and like living the life
that you want, like you're already rich and retired or whatever. Yeah,
and it's some of it sounds a little far fetched, impossible.
I haven't implemented that many things. But he talks about
like automating everything that you can, so like in your situation,
(29:34):
he's like, hire it out, Like he hires a personal
assistant overseas for like six dollars an hour to handle
all of his emails and to shop for him and
like do all this stuff. And he's like, you just
outsource everything in your life that you can so you
can focus on what you actually care about.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
I have a friend who said if he like he
was like, if I was wealthy, the one thing I
would have to have would be a butler. I was
like what he was like, No, my butler would do
everything for me. My butler would do my laundry, like
decide what I'm having for dinner, pay my bills, pick
(30:13):
up my dry cleaning. He was like, I would never
make another customer service phone call again.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Yes, I just did that. I just outsourced answering the
phone for the company. I was like, we're not doing
that anymore. We're not answering the phone anymore.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
So we have nice, nice nice. I also know that
there are seasons of life and so some seasons are
just gonna be there's gonna be more going on than others.
And I am in that kind of season, I guess
right now with school and everything. So I was trying
(30:48):
to make it through.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
That's why I was telling you when we're talking last week,
is like, there's no way I can do it right now,
like taking taking on schools like it would it would
wipe me out.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
Okay, listen, guys, the two of you, the two of
you go back to school, become clinical mental health counselors.
I start a practice. When I'm done, you'll have a
place waiting for you. It'll all be spiritual abuse spiritual
trauma specialist, and we are going to help lots of people.
Speaker 3 (31:18):
Let's do it.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
I'm totally down for it. Yeah. Super fun chatting you guys.
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
Thanks so much for sorry, Thanks for.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
I wish I had I wish I had come. Yeah. No,
super fun as always talking about trauma for the world
to hear. Thanks thanks for inviting me. We help.
Speaker 3 (31:43):
All our one star reviewers enjoyed it. If you liked it,
it's for you.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
Super boring.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
We'll talk to you later.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
If you liked this episode, please go leave us a
five star rating and review wherever that is, if it's Apple,
Spotify or another service. It's really helpful. And don't forget
to subscribe so that you can get notified to when
we have new episodes and updates and things like that. Thanks,
and we'll talk to you all again next week.
The world tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
The Worldwide Church of God presents Herbert's w Armstrong and.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
I am here to bring you the truth.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
No one else is telling you the things that God
is telling you through me.
Speaker 4 (00:16):
He's making through me the Lord.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Let me experience what it is to be a new bride.
Speaker 4 (00:23):
You know, I'm not worried about what I'm about to say,
though it may be graphic.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
We're coming to the Lord and if you can take it,
beyond the veil is the chamber. That's the wedding chamber.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
The Lord told me that.
Speaker 4 (00:37):
But from then on, visions begin to come. When this
comes up on me, it produces the vision. I'm able
to tell people what's wrong with them, what they must
do in life, the sins that they are holding back
in their lives.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Welcome back to the Cult Next Store podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Maddie here.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Before we get started with today's episode, reminder, follow us
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(01:16):
follow that link, click record and send us a voice message.
Also shout out to Shanda and Chase or Chase and
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(01:38):
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no shout out on that five dollars tier. Not going
to do a rating and review today. I want to
jump into today's episode. We have a relatively short one.
This is the rest of our conversation with Blake Moore.
Let's take a listen.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Oh are we showing our tattoos place?
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Like?
Speaker 1 (02:04):
I didn't really how the whole sleeve man?
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Yeah, it was from here to here. All of this
is new. It's like a long, long, not quite finished.
I built my own Polynesian story. All of these are
symbols that have to do with leaving the cult and
(02:30):
forging a new life.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Nice. Do you have it on your chest?
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Too? No?
Speaker 1 (02:35):
No, I thought you did.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
No, it's okay, all right.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Yes, Sarah kind of likes the idea of.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Blake's just naked over here on the podcast, like, no shirt,
here's my cult story.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Well that is what.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
That's cool. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
I was gonna say not the sidetrack and do a
whole segment on tattoos.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
But I've wondered.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
I don't know if I don't think I've asked you
about this, Ashley, probably probably because I know the answer.
But Blake are It's hard for me to describe, but
is there the process of getting a tattoo? Not to
say or imply that I enjoy it, but is there
(03:22):
something about the process of getting a tattoo for you
that is therapeutic, not just having the artwork, but the
actual tattooing.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
No. I so our first tattoo was like script, like
I did the Lord of the Rings quote and like
my shoulder right there the script like you know, it's
things a little but it was like not that big
a deal. And I remember Sarah she got hers on
(03:54):
her wrist, saying that like the pain kind of felt
good compared to being numb, like felt to feel something
like there was this combating like a numbing aspect. And
then she has this it's funny, I'm answering for her. First,
she has this long standing innate desire to like express
(04:17):
herself artistically, like so clothes and fashion and hair, and
then like, and she's always liked tattoos, and I always
thought they were cool. And I never felt like super
super repressed and like a really intense conservative, you know, upbringing,
but I guess a little bit. And then I also
(04:39):
thought it was dumb. Your dad's stands on tattoos with
like the same scripture you're gonna say that's evil, You're
you're extracting, but it's okay to do ear rings and
like whatever, like it did. None of that stuff makes
any sense. So I always thought it was dumb. And
then so I went through this period that has it
(05:02):
completely abated, but it was more intense. No, we got
our first tattoo. It was on Sarah's birthday. It might
have been the year before last, two years ago, and
there was this period of there was like a real
fu type feeling and mindset, but not as I feel
(05:24):
like it's not as cliche as your standard rebellious teenager
doing something that their parents that want them to do.
It really felt much much deeper to me than that.
It wasn't about there's not there's actually not anything I
like about the process.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
It's like taaking back sim autonomy, right, Definitely. It's not
like a so and so it's like you took this
from me, I'm taking this back kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Maybe, yeah, there there's definitely something to that. And it
went hand in hand with like this is interesting too,
because like your dad was prone to curse in some
respects from the lectern but it went hand in hand
with like listening to music that I really wanted to
listen to with f bombs and whatever. That like felt
(06:13):
just good to say. You know, this was like I
don't care anymore. Like there was like this breaking of
like shackles of I'm done being told what to do,
is what it is kind of like how it all
encompass is like, especially if it seems arbitrary and like
total bowl, it's like I'm completely done. And I recognize
(06:36):
that that can be like a really intense pendulum swing,
and I don't. I don't think that I swung very
very hard, Like you know, I could be on hard
substance abuse at the moment. That'd be an interesting coping strategy.
So it definitely can be bad. But no, for me,
there was this, really there was. It's it's partially like
(06:57):
something like if you've always wanted to do it and
being told you can do it, well, now I can
do it. I want to do it. But it was
much much deeper than that. There was this and I
wanted like some specific meaning behind the whole thing. Like
it was. It wasn't flippant to me, like a lot
of a lot of people in tattoo shops, the artists
like they've just slapped images all over the body, saying
(07:21):
with like some like maybe with like zero thought to
this thing. Yeah, like some people, I'm just like why
did you even do that? You know, just for the
heck of it. And then I'm the other way, I'm
the exact extreme opposite of that, like a lot of
overthinking into meaning and like what you want and like
(07:42):
being critical of it not being done perfectly and whatever,
and I right now it's permanent. But uh no, so
there's nothing I like about the process because I hate
trying to figure Ashley, you know what this is like,
I hate trying to figure out perfectly exactly what it
should be and how should be and the whole thing.
Like that's it's stressful and it's permanent and it never
(08:05):
ends up exactly like I wish. And the first tattoos
were like super easy script and they were no big deal.
But once you get into like a lot of shading
and like two hours in, like all of your skin
is are all like this actually really sucks and I
hate it. Also, I've learned this tattoo artists. They're very
(08:25):
artistic and kind of whimsical and like when they're feeling it,
everything's great, and then when they're tired, they just like
they're like I'm done, and like the quality can go downhill,
or like they'll just like, yeah, we're done here, and
you just gotta you catch them in the right moment
and then it should be a short session. Anyway, that's
too long an answer for I don't enjoy the process.
(08:50):
But there was at first, especially there was a real
like you said, reclaiming of not reclaiming claiming. It wasn't reclaiming,
it was claiming autonomy and uh, decision making and a
real kind of intense like screw you to ever telling
(09:11):
me what I could and couldn't do. I just it
sounds it does. It sounds like cliche teenage behavior, but
there's something very I don't know, deep and got or
old of that.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
I mean, I think I think we were denied certain
developmental steps and stages, especially in adolescence in early adulthood,
and so I do think we have to experience some
of those things like I've gone through. I've gone through
(09:46):
some things where I even my therapist pointed out, you know,
because I did different color hair, which I don't think.
I don't think that's like weird or anything, but it's
interesting that I only became interested in that when I
was like much older, whereas my daughter has been doing
that since she was like fourteen or something, you know.
(10:10):
But I would never have been allowed at fourteen, So
all of that was just kind of delayed. So I
think it's fine.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Oh yeah, definitely. Yeah. I'm not even like remotely not
okay with it first aim of it. Yeah, I just
I just mean to say that to me, it feels
like a much deeper thing than what you might typically
look at as like standard rebellious type. Yeah, I don't know,
standard preacher's kid type vibe. You know, it seems bigger
(10:43):
than that to me. I guess you do enjoy the process, Mattie.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
I do, you know, like with mine, Like the first
thirty minutes, I guess your body is given what it
you probably know much better than I do, and off
some kind of chemical and then at some point that
runs out.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
You know, what is it called the first thirty minutes?
It's fine, I think.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
For me, it's really really Yeah, the first thirty minute
that's like, oh, this is a bad idea kind of thing,
like why am I doing this again?
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Type thing?
Speaker 3 (11:18):
At first, you know where you're like, oh, this hurts
more than I remembered the last time. But then like
you hit a certain point where that kind of changes
and like your body kind of like settled in at
least my body does, where it's like, Okay, now it's
getting used to this feeling. But no on the kind
of the part about liking the process. Liking is probably
(11:39):
the wrong or too strong of a word, but I've
had the thought pretty much every time I've gone when
there's that pain where I can tell myself like no, no, no,
like I'm I'm not gonna tap out on this because
I've experienced much worse, like I've had that thought, and
then like it's almost like a train for myself where
(12:01):
it's like, oh, I can endure like plenty of things
and I can stick to something, which is it's funny,
not that this is at all the same as a tattoo,
but even I've found that growing my hair out has
been like therapeutic for me because I just decided that
I was gonna do it, and then I just stuck
to it, like I just didn't get my haircut. I
(12:23):
know that sounds so silly to be like, well, you.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Just didn't do you didn't do it.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
I just didn't get a haircut, But I was like
I was proving to myself in that process, like I
can do this thing and I can sustain it, and
a little bit like that with doing like a full sleeve,
like I can proving to myself like I can do
this even though it's painful, like I've had worse, I
can do this. This is not an issue. And that
(12:48):
has had a domino effect for me in other areas
of my life and work, where it's like, yeah, I
can do anything I need to do. Is what like
how I start to feel internally like I can do
whatever I need to do.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
That's funny you brought that up because I had that
exact thought at some point in a tattoo, where is
like this really hurts. And then it was like, but
I've been through way worse and that has carried over
to like other aspects of life, just things that are
very difficult sometimes just like yeah, but I've dealt with
a lot worse than this, so this is okay. Yeah.
I wouldn't have connected that specifically to tattooing, but I
(13:23):
did have that thought with a tattoo before.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
And Ashley, you just hate yours the whole time, don't you.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (13:32):
Yeah, I mean yes.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
See Ashley is more mentally healthy than we are, Blake,
so she is just like this hurts, I don't like this.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Well for me, that the exact opposite for you. For me,
like the first thirty minutes, it's like it stings, but
it's fine. For me. It's when the inflammation response kicks
in in my body and then like it's getting very sensitive,
like hour hour and a half, two hours in it's
getting especially if there's some shading with like a wide
gauge needle and it's a lot of color, and it's like, no,
this sucks.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
I think my issue has been my placement because I
have just you know, thought of where do I want this,
and I don't consider, oh, this place may have more
nerve endings and maybe more painful. And I go in
and I'm all like excited, and then I sit down,
I'm like, oh my god, that aren't so much worse
(14:27):
than what I was anticipating, you.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Know, after having after having done it, like I've been
shoulder ribs all up and down my own wrists. I
think there's only a couple of places that aren't super sensitive.
Like I think your shoulder is fine. I think most stuff.
I think there's there's just a lot of skin that
(14:49):
doesn't get a lot.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Of okay right here, like on my outside wrist, right
like by this bone that that hurt so much. Like
my whole entire face and head were like tingling. It
felt like she was like right on a nerve or something.
(15:12):
And I wasn't anticipating that. I'm just like I'm just
there to have fun. Like my daughter also got a
tattoo and I was like, my god. And then I
told Lynn because I just got kind of got quiet
because I was like, okay, let's just get this over with.
I can't carry on a conversation. And I told Lynn,
(15:34):
I'm like, that hurts so bad. She was like, well, yeah,
it hurts right there, and I'm just like, well, I
didn't even like look that up to see if that
was a painful spot. Now, the girl did say, like
right before the tattoo artist said, right before she started,
this is gonna staying pretty good because of where it is,
(15:54):
and like you don't have a lot of like cushion
right here, and I was I was like, yeah, you know,
it was still surprising, So it's okay. I don't regret it.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
I would do.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
I can't got it where you wanted it.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Yeah, and now it's over. It's just a memory.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Yeah. I'm trying to figure out if I've answered your question.
Speaker 5 (16:21):
I don't know how I'm doing and what I've there's
an episode title. I don't know how I'm doing.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
You know, sometimes i feel like I'm just not okay,
and I'll say that I'll be like I'm not okay,
but I don't know exactly why. It's like you said,
and you're like you wake up in a funk and
you're like, I don't know what the problem is here,
but yeah, there there's a problem, especially when you can
(16:58):
look at a lot of good circumstances and be like
I should be okay, like everything should be I should
feel good right now, But I don't, you know, it's
you know, I asked Naomi. I don't know. Maybe I
(17:19):
already told you this long time ago. It was I
don't remember what came up, but we were talking about something
and it made me wonder. I was like, well, I
think it was something that like I thought was like
no big deal, and I was like, no, that's that's
kind of a big deal. And I can't remember exactly
(17:40):
what instigated this question, but I wanted to know. I
was like, well, what what's the ranking? Then I was like,
You've dealt with, you know, hundreds of people with very
specific religious abuse type cases, and I was like, how
bad was this situation that I was in. I was like,
on a scale of zero, you know, like one like
(18:03):
I got offended in church, you know, church churt type
of thing, all the way up to cult drinking. Sanine together.
I was like on one to ten, I was like,
where did we fall? And she was like, definitely like
a nine, like pretty close to drinking Sanine, And I
was like for real, She's like yeah, and she said
(18:24):
that out of top five, like we definitely rank in
top five worst cases like stories she's personally dealt with.
And that actually was super helpful for me to hear,
because there is that that programming running of like it's
(18:50):
not that bad, like you're fine, you know, like you
what are you complaining about, type of type of scenario
or just the comparison, you know, just straight up beating
yourself up for falling apart. I don't know if anyone
else does that, probably, but just like just like absolutely
(19:13):
criticizing yourself and feeling like crap because you're falling apart emotionally. Yeah,
And so hearing that wait a minute, of course you're
falling apart, like this was really really messed up, and
to well, there's you another benefit to therapy. I really
(19:35):
take away from this episode to me is like everyone
please find a way to go get and there. But
you know what, absolutely careful there though, because I feel
like if you are not speak I mean depending on
your circumstances. If you're not speaking with someone that has
some specialty in like knowing what you're dealing with, it
(19:55):
might it might could be more harm than good. I
don't know. I've heard of pass stories about not dealing
with the best. I guess there's that's a fun story. Actually,
I tried before I met in Naomi a different I
tried what's the big online platform I recommend yes, I
(20:18):
tried them a couple of different times, and I don't.
I don't know. Maybe there's some great stuff out there.
I don't recommend it. I'm not leaving a one star
review or anything, but you do like a matching with
a matching with therapists, And I cycled through two or
three like really quickly, and really quickly. I was like,
(20:39):
this is absolutely not helpful to me. Like I got
criticized by one of them for a choice I've made,
and I strongly suspect based on what was said to me,
that that choice struck home like a personal nerve with
them in their life. Wow, And they were like against
(21:03):
it and kind of reprimanded me, and I was just
like absolutely, I just was so burned so fast, and
I was like, this is not what I need.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Well, that's notosed to be at all.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
I was really surprised, like it was. It was harsh
is too strong a word, but it was. I was
very raw and really messed up, and so it almost
felt harsh and like just being reprimanded at all. Like
it was. It was just really really bad and I
was just like, yeah, I can never talk to you again.
And then after that there was another one, sweet and kind,
(21:42):
and every session just felt like some cookie cutter, like
zero helpful, like ending with like some positive affirmation type
of thing. It just anyway, I'm not totally distanc better help.
But the point is is I think you could come
across there that are not helpful. Let's say that, yeah,
(22:03):
but that would be Yeah. My huge takeaway here is
I really don't understand how anyone's getting by without it,
because what was I saying about, Oh yeah, just hearing
the feedback, the assessment of your situation from a professional
(22:25):
and external perspective really really helped give perspective like permission
for you to not feel okay, permission to be like, yeah,
it makes sense that you're having a really really hard time.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
One thing that has been difficult for me. I think
is recognizing overwhelm and recognizing when I have maybe too
many things going on and too many stresses, because I
think that if for so long you're just you're just
(23:01):
dealing with whatever is thrown at you, and it's like
you said, you don't know until you're out of it,
you don't realize, like everybody isn't living this way, everybody
isn't under duress in all of these different areas of
their lives. And I think just living that way for
(23:23):
so long and having such like a heavy emotional burden,
and managing other people's feelings, managing your own, having lots
of obligations and expectations of you, all of that, even
though I have been out of this for so long now,
(23:44):
I'm realizing that I think because of that, I don't
always recognize when I'm actually overwhelmed and when I have
too much responsibility that I've taken on or allowed in
my life. And Toby actually the other day I was
(24:05):
telling him, like, how is feeling? And he said, well,
you have too much going on right now, You're overwhelmed.
And when he said I have too much going on,
I was like, do I like I have to like
look at all of this and like list out all
the things and then I'm like, well, I guess objectively
(24:25):
that is a lot, but I almost feel like the
reason why I don't easily recognize that has to do
with the trauma and this is just another instance that
I've found in my life how that is still at play.
I don't know if either of you feel that, but
(24:50):
we all just dealt with what was thrown at us,
and that was our.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
Job, right, I too feel like you have too much
going on? You do. I know you meant for us,
but I feel that you have so much going on.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
See to me, I'm just like, oh, I should be
doing these other five things? Why am I not doing it?
Speaker 2 (25:15):
You know?
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Like I was like crying because I'm like, it's my
life goal to write a book and I'm not writing it.
And if it was really a priority, like I would
be doing it right now. And that's when Toby was
just like, you have so much and.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
I'm like do I though, That's what I was trying
to describe earlier when I was talking about beating yourself
up for like not being okay or just not recognizing
the truth of the matter. Is like so many times,
like I'll do that. It's like like, how are you
not doing this better? And how are you how you
like miss faltered the cracks, yes and all this, and
(25:52):
it's just like I've had to have external perspective stuff
back and be like, dude, look at what you're doing
though with this thing, thing, this thing, this thing, and
this thing is like your plate is very full, yeah,
you know, and then you have to stop yourself from
comparing that plate to some other person's plate. We're like, well,
they're doing way more than me. It's like, well, yeah, maybe,
(26:13):
but there's better.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
Than good for them. Yeah, kind of like berating yourself
for not being productive that kind of thing, which I
know is not just in us definitely, but it definitely
gets amped up, you know. But that's a strategy learning
how to like, let me not I don't have to
(26:36):
be doing something right now.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
I don't have to be making some third time the
third time you've brought up something that I'm like, that's
a fantastic point that I would have forgotten. Is I
have had to learn to sit back and tell myself
it's okay, I'm having a bad day and my bass
line today is is low, and I'm not going to
get near as much productivity like I do. I beat
(27:01):
myself up for not feeling productive every single day. Yeah,
and if my day is like a real, real bad funk,
like I can tell the difference, like when I'm waking
up and dopamine is much lower or something, and there's
just the motivation is low. Everything feels negative, Like everybody
(27:21):
knows what this feels. Like what you want to do
is curl up on the couch and binge watch TV
with good snacks all day, Like that's what you want
to do. So when I've learned, when I feel like that,
I have to mentally give myself the permission. I'm bringing
the bar way down today. Like if I start my
day and do the exercise to get me moving and
then accomplish like the three necessities for the day, it's
(27:45):
okay if the rest of the day's a wash, Like
if I just get these three necessary things done, I'm
not going to be super productive today. And then on
the flip side, when I wake up and I'm feeling great,
I will be like today's a day to run with
it and make up for the next time I'm not
going to feel great and like I can be super
productive today and not like an unhealthy way, but like
(28:06):
just capitalizing on the good moments and then given yourself
permission to be like every daystes not going to be
a great day man. So it's okay if you're not
maximumly productive.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
Yeah, yeah, Ashley.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
That's a big deal. Like you have to remind yourself
or Sarah has to remind me.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
Well, I don't know how to take anything off my
plate right now, Like what would I take off?
Speaker 3 (28:37):
That's the problem, and I'll meditate about it.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
I will meditate to survive. That's right, yeh, meditating to
survive all th things on plate. It's like my time
by by myself.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Have you ever listened to the Four Hour work Week?
Tim Ferriss?
Speaker 1 (28:56):
Listen to it is.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
Reddit read it. It's a break. I do audio books, okay, listen?
Speaker 1 (29:02):
Well, no, Like, I know he has a podcast and
listens to some of the podcasts, but I didn't know
what it was called. And I have one book, this book.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
I think it was his first book. I think I
don't think it was. Yeah, but his whole thing is
like hacking the whole system and like living the life
that you want, like you're already rich and retired or whatever. Yeah,
and it's some of it sounds a little far fetched, impossible.
I haven't implemented that many things. But he talks about
like automating everything that you can, so like in your situation,
(29:34):
he's like, hire it out, Like he hires a personal
assistant overseas for like six dollars an hour to handle
all of his emails and to shop for him and
like do all this stuff. And he's like, you just
outsource everything in your life that you can so you
can focus on what you actually care about.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
I have a friend who said if he like he
was like, if I was wealthy, the one thing I
would have to have would be a butler. I was
like what he was like, No, my butler would do
everything for me. My butler would do my laundry, like
decide what I'm having for dinner, pay my bills, pick
(30:13):
up my dry cleaning. He was like, I would never
make another customer service phone call again.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Yes, I just did that. I just outsourced answering the
phone for the company. I was like, we're not doing
that anymore. We're not answering the phone anymore.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
So we have nice, nice nice. I also know that
there are seasons of life and so some seasons are
just gonna be there's gonna be more going on than others.
And I am in that kind of season, I guess
right now with school and everything. So I was trying
(30:48):
to make it through.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
That's why I was telling you when we're talking last week,
is like, there's no way I can do it right now,
like taking taking on schools like it would it would
wipe me out.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
Okay, listen, guys, the two of you, the two of
you go back to school, become clinical mental health counselors.
I start a practice. When I'm done, you'll have a
place waiting for you. It'll all be spiritual abuse spiritual
trauma specialist, and we are going to help lots of people.
Speaker 3 (31:18):
Let's do it.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
I'm totally down for it. Yeah. Super fun chatting you guys.
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
Thanks so much for sorry, Thanks for.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
I wish I had I wish I had come. Yeah. No,
super fun as always talking about trauma for the world
to hear. Thanks thanks for inviting me. We help.
Speaker 3 (31:43):
All our one star reviewers enjoyed it. If you liked it,
it's for you.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
Super boring.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
We'll talk to you later.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
If you liked this episode, please go leave us a
five star rating and review wherever that is, if it's Apple,
Spotify or another service. It's really helpful. And don't forget
to subscribe so that you can get notified to when
we have new episodes and updates and things like that. Thanks,
and we'll talk to you all again next week.
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