March 3, 2025 • 38 mins
Briar emphasizes the importance of indigenous wisdom in shaping personal wellbeing and workplace safety. She drew from Māori perspectives and her study of rongoā (traditional healing) to highlight how reconnecting with Papatūānuku (Mother Earth) fosters resilience and mental strength. The idea that healthy people lead to safer workplaces is central—wellbeing isn’t just a “nice-to-have” but a foundation for safety and productivity.
Briar discussed the Power of Connection—To Land, Culture, and Each Other. Indigenous knowledge sees humans as part of, not separate from, nature. This deep interconnection is crucial for both environmental sustainability and personal balance. Briar shared how traditional practices, like blessing the land before high risk work, can influence workplace safety culture and mental wellbeing. Organizations should create space for genuine cultural practices rather than tokenistic gestures. Making sure there is understanding of tikanga (protocols) helps avoid disconnect or lack of engagement.
When it comes to Cultural Intelligence in Safety Leadership One of the biggest cultural intelligence mistakes safety professionals make is assuming knowledge or lack of knowledge within diverse teams. Instead of imposing a dominant culture, leaders should listen, learn, and empower different cultural perspectives. Briar compares this idea to the Three Sisters planting method (corn, beans, and squash working together). Similarly, different workplace cultures shouldn’t be blended into one but should complement and strengthen each other.
And lastly, Bringing Indigenous Knowledge into Everyday Work. Briar’s korowai weaving project is a powerful metaphor—by incorporating natural materials, traditional dyes, and storytelling, she connects her work to history, identity, and purpose. Similar approaches can be used in health & safety—creating rituals, storytelling, and culturally aligned practices can make safety messages more impactful. The key is integration, not assimilation—indigenous knowledge should stand on its own rather than be forced to fit into Western frameworks.
Finally, some Practical Actions for Health & Safety Professionals
1. Learn basic cultural greetings and protocols for the cultures you work with—it shows respect and builds trust.
2. Involve workers in setting workplace tikanga (guidelines) that align with their cultural values, making safety feel more intrinsic rather than imposed.
3. Recognize that not all indigenous employees will have deep cultural knowledge, so support their journey instead of expecting them to be cultural experts.
4. Understand the cultural values that may influence risk perception, like the Filipino concept of Bahalana, which can impact safety behaviors.
This episode really explored how Small Steps Create Big Change - Briar’s experience with the book Braiding Sweetgrass and her international learning journey shows that change starts at a local level. Safety professionals don’t need to be cultural experts, rather they should take small, thoughtful actions—like acknowledging tikanga, fostering cultural dialogue, and supporting indigenous wisdom which can lead to big shifts in how workplaces approach safety and wellbeing.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Greg (00:00):
Hi, everyone welcome to another episode of the
Culturally Intelligent SafetyProfessional, a podcast aimed at
providing a platform where bysafety professionals can develop
a pathway to enhance theircultural intelligence capability
which will help them functionmore effectively when working in
a multicultural situation.
(00:20):
I'm Greg Dearsly your host and Ihave a range of guests lined up
to talk to this year.
We have people with experiencesacross leadership psychology,
health and safety, education andof course cultural intelligence.
All of our guests come from awide range of different
backgrounds across the diversityspectrum, including from
(00:41):
different organizationalcontext.
In this podcast you'll hearstories aimed at helping you the
listener enhance your culturalintelligence.
You'll gain an understanding ofhow you can create trust when
working in diverse environmentsand quite frankly, that's all
the time no matter howhomogenous the place you work at
might be, it's still full ofdiversity, people with different
(01:05):
backgrounds, experiences andbeliefs, all built on their
figured world Okay, in thisepisode we're talking with Briar
Moffatt of Whare Kōtāre.
Briar's mahi provides mindsetcoaching services to guide you
to lead a life of abundance,inspired by natural wisdom.
(01:26):
Where we look at the rhythms ofPapatūānuku, and for our non New
Zealand listeners, Mother Earth,Mother Nature, to guide us to
delve into our own inherentstrengths and build resilience
and mental strength to thrive.
And I guess the tagline thatcomes along with that is
providing a safe space andempowering space for people to
(01:49):
reconnect with their own purposeand the natural world.
Kia ora Briar, great to have youon the show.
Briar (01:54):
kia ora great to be here.
Greg (01:56):
do you want to you got a bit of an intro that you wanna
do?
Tell us about yourself.
Briar (02:01):
Yeah, sure.
So I'll start, I guess with meko Tararua te maunga, ko Ōtaki
me Ōhau nga Awa, ko Tainui tewaka, ko Ngāti Tukorehe te Iwi,
ko Ngāti Raukawa ki te Tonga teiwi.
No Ōhau ahau ko Briar MoffattToko Ingoa.
(02:23):
So born and bred in Ōtaki andnow living in the beautiful
Ohau, and very proud NgātiTukorehe wahine nice.
Greg (02:31):
Nice.
Most people don't, probablydon't know where Ohau is.
Briar (02:34):
Ohau, oh yeah, in the mighty Horowhenua.
Greg (02:37):
Mighty Horowhenua, little beachside town about what,
probably about 30 k's south ofwhere we are now.
Briar (02:45):
Yeah, so halfway between Wellington and Palmy North.
On the west coast.
Greg (02:48):
Nice vineyard there too.
tell us about Briar.
How did you come to we know howyou came to be in Ohau but what
about from a professionalperspective?
What's your life story?
Briar (02:58):
Let's go somewhere between Elevator Pitch and the
Long Story.
I guess where I am now withWhare Kōtari.
So Whare Kōtari is home toKingfisher.
So Kōtari is that beautifulKingfisher and they have just
this beautiful strength, wisdom.
They're also highly discerningof water systems.
So if you're seeing Kōtariaround, the waterways nearby are
(03:18):
really clear and pure.
And they tend to watch, look,gather information and when
they're ready, they go.
So they're this real Poe for meon just that strength of
knowledge, and conviction ofaction.
And they resemble abundance andluck and all that beautiful
stuff, which I think we alldeserve to have in our lives.
So when I was starting mywellness company, I was looking
for Tohu like that, and I wasseeing a lot of signs there's a
(03:40):
lot of Kingfisher around aswell, and it's connected into
our whānau.
Started my wellness companyafter working in safety for
about a decade in theconstruction industry in
Aotearoa And through all of thatI noticed that people themselves
weren't necessarily well andthriving.
And I was having to work insidesystems where people actually
(04:04):
weren't present at worknecessarily.
They had a lot going on in theirminds, busy minds from home
life, personal life and thatpeople didn't really have the
tools to regulate self in theworkplace and, or in home life.
So I was like, Hey, what if I goback to the start and work with
the people and then I couldcontribute to safety through
(04:25):
helping produce healthier peoplewho could then turn up more
focus because they were able towork through the challenges in
their lives instead of maybebeing distracted and also
conversations can be had withless, I'm going to say ego,
fraction when people know how tobe in healthier and perhaps.
(04:49):
Yeah, just able to have achallenging conversation and
chat, open in the workplace toovercome problems.
Greg (04:56):
A recovering safety professional.
Yeah! And I guess having workedin the construction industry
with a lot of blokey blokes.
That emotional intelligence,that being stuff of probably 15
years ago.
Yeah.
Didn't really exist a lot.
(05:16):
It was all, we're all good, wecan handle this.
Briar (05:19):
Yeah.
I've heard people say, oh,mental health, I don't need
that.
Oh, actually, that's the thingwe all aspire to.
Yeah.
Tell me how you're so good atit.
Yeah.
What are your tricks?
Yeah.
But yeah, it's been, Because Iworked in transport straight out
of uni, or polytech.
I worked in the transportindustry and then went into the
mines in Aussie.
So I worked FIFO in Aussie for awhile, not in safety, but that
(05:41):
was where my safety careerkicked off.
As a safety rep over there, andthen Pike River happened in
Aotearoa while I was there, andI saw the effect.
Even on people who, we were in agold mine and partners of people
working in that gold mine werethen extra worried about their
partners coming to work in thesafety aspect of it.
Even though it wasn't a coalmine, didn't have those risks,
(06:01):
it really fretted a lot ofpeople.
So I actually came home fromthat industry to retrain in
safety to work in the gold mine.
To, it's to give a voice topeople and help them navigate
the system that is expected ofthem in the workplace.
It was where I saw me in safety.
So it was always for the people,so that transition from safety
into wellness kind of probablywas a natural movement, but it
(06:25):
was always for extending safety.
Greg (06:27):
And I suppose with with, obviously there's a well being
thing, but obviously there'salso that connection to The
earth and the environment andyou talk about Papatūānuku and
Mother Earth and that connectionand I guess just to fast forward
to, one of the things thatconnected us a little bit more
(06:48):
was, the Braiding Sweetgrassbook.
Those that haven't heard a bookcalled Braiding Sweetgrass by
Robin Kimmerer I dunno how topronounce his second name
actually.
Robin Wall Kimmerer.
And as you look through theindexes or the contents page of
that book was some reallyinspirational titles, isn't
there?
(07:08):
Really spark imagination.
Maple Sugar Moon, Epiphany ofthe Beans, and the Gift of
Strawberries.
But the one that caught myattention, and it was one of the
really first chapters, wasCouncil of Pecans.
And, um, just not only did Ilearn about the history of the
pecan nut, which I think frommemory, pecan actually means
(07:32):
nut.
In the indigenous language ofnorth America, and so we're
talking about a nut.
But also about the history ofcolonization in that part of the
world.
And I guess you could almostwrite that chapter.
On the pecan nut from anindigenous New Zealand
(07:53):
perspective, and I don't know,maybe you could call it travels
with the kumara or something.
I don't know, because it's goingto be a very similar story, I'm
guessing.
Briar (08:02):
Yeah, there was so much synergy in between what I've
experienced and learned inAotearoa and studying Rongoa.
Māori along, it just dovetailedinto Braiding Sweetgrass, like
while I was reading it.
Best recommend ever by the way.
Thank you.
Like a pivotal life changingbook where I just saw in it
(08:25):
things that resonated in me thatI was like, oh, I always thought
that, but didn't even know Ithought it like that.
That's how I, that's so true.
And then studying rongoa aswell, seeing that it's all this
Oneness with nature.
We are not higher or lower.
We are in it.
We are part of the system.
And nature has this beautifulway of healing and repairing.
(08:48):
It will heal us.
If the land is well, we're well.
ko au te whenua, ko whenua teau.
I am the land and the land isme.
And without a connection withnature, we are disconnected.
So connection with humans andnature is just crucially
important for wellness.
Greg (09:05):
Yep.
Yeah, so it's pretty.
It's a pretty special book andsome of those stories that she
tells about about the upbringingof those people.
And their connection with theland.
As I say, there's the pecanstory, but then there's a story
about, I don't know, I thinkthere was one about fishing in a
pond and there's one aboutstrawberries and there's all
(09:27):
sorts of different things that,she's just a fantastic
storyteller.
And you got, as you say, it wasa bit of a life changing read,
and somewhere along the line youmanaged to get hold of this
woman and about four or fivemonths ago you ended up in the
(09:48):
States on a workshop with her.
What's it all about?
Briar (09:54):
Where there's a will, there's a way.
If you're living in alignmentwith your core values, oh mate,
you'll move heaven and earth todo a thing.
But yeah, a few stand out.
So from her book, I'd ended upgrowing a garden with the three
sisters, which is corn and thenbeans and then squash.
So corn goes first, beans growup it.
Yeah.
And so I was like, Hey, this,I've taken action from this
(10:15):
person's advice and I reallyconnect with how she is and when
I love to travel.
And so I've switched mytraveling from, I want to see at
the seven wonders of the worldto I want to go to places and
learn.
How indigenous knowledge is donethere.
So learning a lot here at homeand then when I go places, what
can they teach me?
And so I vowed and declared tomyself that when I went, I'd go
(10:37):
for learning moments and went,surely she's doing a tour and
tracked it down and yes, she wasdoing a three day what we call
noho in New Mexico on a ranch, a20, 000 acre cattle ranch in New
Mexico.
Abiquiu in New Mexico.
And yeah, booked myself promptlyover there and tied it in was
able to visit some incrediblehumans in the States while I was
(10:59):
there.
And just knew that it would beworth going to.
Yeah.
And came away just, Empoweredand uplifted and it was like
this affirmation, a deepaffirmation that the things that
A, we're coming up against herein New Zealand aren't, we're not
the only ones.
Disruption of connection to landand self.
(11:20):
is around the world inindigenous peoples, but that
indigenous knowledge is sopowerful.
And so that's what shechampioned through all of it,
was that indigenous knowledgegoing first and then backed up
by Western science.
So we'd call that mātaurangaMāori, so yeah, send that out
first.
It's got all of that old, deepand ancient knowledge behind it
(11:40):
and then support it with, withthe new take that Western
science can give to things.
So they're not mutuallyexclusive, but just don't let
the science rampage all overeverything without a direction.
Greg (11:53):
If I recall rightly, you weren't the only Kiwi there?
Briar (11:55):
There was another Kiwi.
Oh, was I?
No, I was the only Kiwi, butthere were two Aussies in the
room.
Yeah, about a hundred andsomething of us at this ranch.
So yeah, quite a beautifulnumber of people to get around
and start to build a networkconnection again.
And we, the main tasking of itwas sometimes when the picture
is so big, it can becomeoverwhelming.
(12:18):
And then if we don't know how totake steps to action anything,
we can close down and then justhit stall.
And we don't do anything withthat beautiful knowledge.
So it was raise awareness andwhat's the plan?
So what's your action leavinghere from?
And one of your ones was raise agarden, raise good kids and
raise a ruckus.
(12:39):
And cause we talked about, Iwrote it down the other day.
It was like this thing for me,it was global action at a local
level.
So we can't fix the world.
But we can take action locallytowards a similar outcome.
And that just empowers and itgives for local nuance.
Because not how they do it inAmerica will work here, it will
(13:01):
be similar, but you can't cookiecutter it.
And it gives space for eachbeautiful indigenous nation
around the world, of which we'reall a part of some indigenous
nation somewhere just letting itthrive and stand up in that
local area.
And rongoa, our rongoa teachesus that what grows locally for
us is best for us locally asmedicines too which promotes you
(13:21):
to tend the land and connectwith the land so that you know
what's there and what's localand what can help you, which
then you know what you'reprotecting.
It's hard to be kaitiaki forsomething if you're like super
disconnected, never get off theconcrete, don't go outside.
Greg (13:38):
And so just thinking about some of those cultural aspects
around indigenous you getinvolved in a whole heap of
them, right?
I see your social media contentall the time and you're growing
things and you're making thingsout of natural products and
you've got something going on atMassey University where you're
trialling with plant dyes andall sorts of different things
and you're doing some weavingand there's a lot going on
(14:00):
there.
Briar (14:00):
Yeah.
There's always heaps going on inmy world.
Greg (14:05):
And the korowai thing, you've talked about that.
Again, we haven't spoken aboutit, but I've seen the content
online about you've taken it todifferent parts of the world
that you've been to.
Just to, again, create some sortof connection with indigenous
people.
I think was Tahiti recently?
Briar (14:21):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I started this beautifulkorowai for intending for anyone
connected with my business to beable to wear as an empowerment
piece.
So if you're doing cool things,whatever that means to you then.
The design of it, and thethinking of it, and the weaving
of it, and then the dyes that Iused are from Rongoa Rākau.
So I've taken the plantmedicines that I like the most,
(14:42):
and they were most connected atthe time with, and then dyed the
thread for my tani kō with them.
So it tells this beautifulgraduating story as well of, so
from Harakeke to Mānuka toTātaramoa, which is the bush
lawyer, and then through toGolden Tainui.
And then up to tōtara, so it'sthis graduating size of the
nāhiri as well, so it's amovement as well.
(15:05):
And then as I've woven her I'vetaken her to all the places that
I go to, so she travels so it'sagain promoting movement and
things, yeah, so I went toTahiti.
She's been to the Sunshine Coasta few times.
Been over to the States.
Been a few places all aroundAotearoa.
So I take her when I'm weavingher.
And because it's a Things aren'tIt's Things have person, not
(15:28):
personalities, but more like thesentient creature kind of
conversation of our trees aren'tan it.
A lot, it's a lot easy to cutdown an it.
But when you connect withsomething and when we harvest we
need to connect.
There's a wairua piece of can Ibe here?
Am I allowed?
To take.
And sometimes the answer's no.
The forest will tell ya.
(15:49):
If you're not following tikanga,the answer's no.
Greg (15:52):
Yeah, absolutely.
And Braiding Sweetgrass talksabout that actually, doesn't
she?
She talks about that a lot interms of the connection, the
relationship, the, yeah, betweenthe farmer, and the land.
And actually you would you wentdown the forestry path, and I
remember I did some work for aforestry company.
A couple of years ago and thehealth and safety person there,
(16:12):
I think it was the health andsafety person told me that
they'd had a worker who wasreally anxious about going into
the forest at that particularblock.
That they were working and itwas because there'd been no no
blessing of the land or themachinery and then when you read
into the I guess is it themātauranga or the tikanga
(16:34):
around.
Processing a forest, this goesway back to Tāne Mahuta and the
process of chopping trees down.
And the tikanga way.
And if you don't follow that andyou've got a bunch of Māori
workers, it's probably not goingto be particularly comfortable
(16:55):
for them.
Briar (16:55):
I noticed even the Did this kind of instinctively in
safety work and now I get what Iwas doing and some of the why.
Which is sometimes like we havethis wisdom inside ourselves
that we don't always know whereit's come from.
But it's like it's our gifts.
But I always, aimed to start anyproject that we worked on in
construction following a processand Te Ao Māori gives us this
(17:18):
process of starting withintention, following process,
and closing with intention.
And it's systems based.
It makes sense, but it humanisesand gives wairua to a work
project.
So we'd set up with intent, do afull walkover, and always have
everyone that was going to beworking on the project in the
room at the start, barbecue,start up, and it just would go
(17:40):
well.
And you put everyone on the samepage at the start, the
conversations that needed tohappen would just all happen
organically, as they needed toat once.
And then you keep going likethat, and then when it's
finished, and I don't think atthat time we were doing karakia,
but it was the, you're imbuingthe worksite with intent, and
then at the end of it you'reclosing it with intent, and you
(18:01):
pack it all down and it's done,and karakia does that, when you
open something and closesomething.
And then inside it is safelyheld the intention or the
process or the what we're herefor.
Greg (18:15):
Yeah and I think a lot of Employees and a lot of employers
sometimes struggle with gettingthat right because it does
sometimes come across as a bittokenistic.
Briar (18:29):
The dialogue cutting here.
Greg (18:31):
Just making sure that there is a legitimate, There's
reason, there's understanding.
This is why we're doing it.
Not, oh, we're going to do thisbloody karakia thing and because
the book says I had somebodytalk to me about a year ago
saying, oh, we've been forced toput ngā mihi on all of our email
signatures.
(18:51):
You've got to do it for theright reasons and understand why
you're doing it.
And I guess believe in the factthat it's helping some people.
Might not be relevant toeverybody, but there's certainly
people that will value that.
Briar (19:07):
Yeah, I think it's a beautiful way of uplifting
knowledge too, having some ofthose framework expectations.
I remember one job we opened inState 4 a while back.
We had everyone there, iwi wasthere, we were starting out the
project, Waka Kotahi was there,and then someone, a workmate
said to me, If anyone has tospeak, that's going to be you.
(19:30):
And I'm like, I froze and almostpuked because I was like, my
heart stopped.
I was like, I haven't got thereo.
I don't know what to do andfreaked out.
And then it turned out he wasjust missing, but it really
stopped me.
And then I went, I'm never goingto feel like that again.
And put this onus on myself tolearn a few karakia, and at
least a basic waiata, which itturned out I didn't, I just, my
(19:51):
brain stalled.
And I could have muffed fumbledmy way through it.
Greg (19:55):
But I think that's another thing that gets stuck in the
tokenistic sort of thing too,isn't it?
That organisations just go tothe closest Māori and say, can
you do a karakia or a waiata orwhatever?
And maybe there's an opportunityfor non Māori to learn some of
that stuff and say.
And I just, I've got an exampleof that actually we had an
INSHPO meeting in New Zealand inSeptember last year.
(20:18):
So I had people from Canada andAmerica and UK and Korea and
various other places, Australia.
And we had coordinated andarranged for the local iwi to
come and do a bit of apresentation.
And Jodhi from.
Te Ropu Marutau o Aotearoa wasgoing to come and talk about
(20:40):
some of the stuff that they'redoing but they weren't going to
be there prior to lunch, and soI just took it on myself to get
myself a pre meal karakia.
And as it happened, I think theplace where we were at had one,
on a stand next to where all thefood was, but I didn't know that
(21:01):
going in.
But yeah, it's no harm in doingthat.
Briar (21:07):
I've noticed, especially big groups, so like I've worked
big construction site teams, andit tends to just put a pause in.
It puts a stop before you start.
Otherwise people kind of driftpast and there's not the
respecting of the kai that'sbeen put out.
And then, people just drift,where if you've got that
framework, and someone doesbless the kai, and that can even
(21:27):
be Whatever.
It's just a, hey, here's athing.
Someone put the effort in
Greg (21:33):
And I think the other thing that I learned through
this process too was, and I'velearned that a lot about, a lot
of Tikanga protocols that I'velooked into don't have to have
religious overtones.
The, actually the Karakia that Idid pre meal was I guess about
acknowledging the people thatgrew the product and distributed
it and did the work to get it tothe to the plate.
(21:55):
And that doesn't have to, and Ithink sometimes that's a
roadblock for some people, isthat religious sort of
connection.
Briar (22:02):
Interestingly, most of our karakia, or lot, are not
religious as such, like thatwe're speaking to the Atua,
which I guess is spiritualspiritual, yeah.
Yeah, and I know it can be ahang up for people that don't
like to do it if it's religious,but when it's simply blessing
the land for giving us thisbeautiful kai and it's going to
nourish our body, that's onlygood.
Greg (22:25):
Hey, we should bring this back to safety a little bit.
Actually, the other one thing Iwanted to ask you about was You,
do you get involved in searchand rescue around here?
Briar (22:34):
Yeah, I've been on the Horowhenua search and rescue
team for a while, for a fewyears now.
Yeah haven't been out on heapsof searches, but packed me bag a
couple of times.
Yeah,
Greg (22:43):
really?
Yeah.
Excellent.
And how, a lot of training forthat?
Yeah, they're
Briar (22:48):
amazing.
It's such an epic community,national group.
So they teach, they, they reallyknow how to train up their
humans.
They really know how to keep acommunity and a group and a
family situation.
So all the searching, trackingoutdoor first aid, being that's
just a few that I've done in thelast couple of years.
As well as they do big SAR Xsearch rescue operations once a
(23:12):
year normally, plus rivercrossing.
So there's heaps of traininggoes into launching these
everyday humans out the door tolook for people when things have
gone wrong, which is like this,the reason I joined it was that.
I like doing stuff in theoutdoors.
I go on missions, whether it'srunning or tramping, and I'll do
my best to prepare, to the bestof my knowledge, check all the
forecasts, make a planaccordingly, do my thing, and if
(23:34):
something goes wrong, I know theteam's there, and you can call
or push the button, or I justgot my PLB, and then you can
push the envelope a bit, whichis what humans tend to do but
it's Be as best prepared as youcan, and then if something goes
outside of that, then peoplewill come and help you hopefully
fast enough.
But then so I wanted to be apart of that, like providing
(23:54):
that external safety blanket sothat people can go test their
limits, connect to nature, gooutside, get off the footpath.
Yeah.
And in those first, when you're,what is it?
Unconsciously incompetent.
Mistakes can happen, right?
And so you think you'reprepared, but you don't know
what you don't know, yeah.
Greg (24:13):
Nice.
Here's the curveball question.
Bring it back to safety.
Two or three things that youthink health and safety people
should Can do to be moreculturally aware, culturally
intelligent, culturallycompetent, whatever words you
want to use, just to be moreconnected to the culture of the
(24:36):
people that they're working withbecause not everybody thinks
you, as a health and safetyperson, or and, what do they
call that?
Mirror image fallacy?
And just from your experiencesand areas of focus, what do you
reckon would make a betterhealth and safety professional
thinking about culturalintelligence?
Briar (24:55):
Wow.
You asked me this in prep and Iwas like, where am I going to go
with this?
I guess not assuming what youknow, or not assuming what
people don't know.
I've seen that happen a lot.
Just assuming people aren'tintelligent or aren't aware or
aren't confident.
There will be always someone inthe group that is more competent
(25:15):
than you ever imagined.
And to find them, and ask themthings.
And then whether they do that,they don't have to do the doing
though either.
Sometimes it's find out theknowledge that's in your group.
And then, Oh, I was making noteson the fiends and corn.
I was like, I love this as ananalogy.
What can this be?
(25:35):
And so like the corn, if that'sthe indigenous culture inside,
inside a company, give it spaceto grow and get nice and big and
strong and support it as opposedto telling it what to do.
And so if the bean's job is tonurture and give extra nitrogen
to the corn, it's providing thatextra support, or whether it's a
(25:59):
budget, or whether it's not justthinking that only Māori in the
team need to do a thing.
So we've worked with sites witha lot of fillies, a lot of
Filipino workers.
Epic! Mate, they are awesome,fun people.
Loving humans who do real goodwith lots of food around.
(26:19):
So there's all these differentcultures.
Learning how the culture works.
Who's the, if there's, I'm goingto say if there's an alpha,
who's the leader?
And how does that work?
How do people, so in injurycases, people don't like to not
be able to do what they normallydo often.
So some little tricks that wehad was finding a job that was
(26:42):
still giving them relevance inthe team.
So that they could be at workstill, obviously if they weren't
broken enough to still be athome.
Just give them some validitybecause there'll be something
beyond doing the filing.
That still makes them feeluseful in contributing and
ticking the man card if it'sdudes and then or just helping
more.
(27:02):
Then.
To something tokenistic.
Greg (27:04):
Yeah.
The Filipino, workforce issomething that's been a subject
on this podcast previously.
A colleague of mine, JaneFowles, who's in the dairy
industry in the South Island.
I've got a lot of Filipinoworkers.
And Bahalana.
It was one of the, one of the, Ichallenges to jump over.
Bahalana means But for the graceof God, everything will be okay,
(27:29):
right?
And so that's a Filipinocultural concept.
And so then you go and say, I'vegot a hundred Filipino workers
just landed on the ground herewith that at the forefront of
their minds, but that's not howit works.
We think about it, but I can'ttell them that's wrong.
So how do we integrate theirthinking?
(27:50):
How do we navigate that?
And that's not the only place inthe world that type of thinking
exists.
So just understanding some ofthat stuff like that is, and, I
guess I'm not sitting here withthe cultural intelligence hat on
saying you've got to knoweverything about every culture
that you might come acrossbecause that's clearly not
practical.
(28:10):
But if you knew one or twothings.
Briar (28:12):
Yeah.
Even some greetings,
Greg (28:14):
just a couple of words.
Yep, absolutely.
Briar (28:18):
With Māori, tikanga is important knowing what tikanga
are, knowing what, set thetikanga for the project you're
working on.
Help get the team to contributeto setting the rules or the
tikanga.
There's law versus lore right?
So the L O R E will hold muchmore sway than LAW, when,
(28:40):
because people get it, it's anintrinsic thing.
So if you can get the teaminvolved in writing the tikanga
for the work that you're doing,and lining it up with stuff like
whanaungatanga and manaakitanga,then you just, it feels good to
work inside as well.
Greg (28:55):
There's a, actually just thinking about some of that
stuff, there's a bit of a storyand it starts with a question
about where are all the hardhats?
And I can't even remember whotold me the story, but I use it
all the time, and it's, you'reon a construction site or a
forestry site or whatever, abunch of Māori workers there in
the smoko room, where all thehardhats, maybe they're still on
(29:16):
their head or maybe they're onthe floor, and the non Māori
supervisor comes in, takes hishardhat off, Puts it on the
table, and immediately you'velost respect.
Yeah.
It's probably not something thata lot of people are gonna know
or think about if they're notMaori.
Yeah.
But just, it's just a smallthing that doesn't take much to
(29:38):
remember.
Yeah.
That let's put some hooks on thewall or something, yeah.
Briar (29:42):
Because if you're looking after even basic in, in the
workplace, if you're lookingafter a spiritual way to a
health.
Mind health and your tīnana andyour whānau.
That's already great.
And can you take my nature tothat?
And that's the foundation thatyou're building that whānau of
the workplace on.
That looks after everybodysafely, happily, empowered
(30:02):
inside that.
Then it's knowing little thingslike that.
Helping the team set up theworkplace.
What's going to help you followtikanga and not break it?
And also not clutter the floorup with all the hard hats.
Yeah.
Greg (30:14):
Yeah.
Hey, cool.
Anything else you want to add?
Any pearls of wisdom?
Anything you've been thinkingabout?
Briar (30:21):
I think one of the Main key things, and I'm going to
loop it back to BraidingSweetgrass, was this beautiful
message of not blendingcultures.
Back to the corns and the beans.
The corns will always be cornand the beans will always be
beans.
Yeah.
You can't, it's not the merging,it's the how to get the mutual
benefit from both.
And that was this beautifulmessage that she had around not
(30:45):
asking the indigenous culturesto come in and merge with the
other.
And that could happen withincorporate and human value sets
of going, this is what we wantyou to think like versus this is
how you are.
And then that's how your cultureis or your peoples.
So it's letting them beindividual and not, cause as
(31:06):
soon as you try to merge thetwo, the dominant one will win.
So if that's a corporate goingon, this is how you must think
here.
You're just going to end up witha whole bunch of unhappy people.
And the indigenous culture thatyou're trying to awhi.
Won't shine through because youhaven't actually given it space
to.
So it's that letting it gofirst, give the culture in the
workplace and whether that'speople culture or the workplace,
(31:27):
it's culture the environment andthe nurturing and the
nourishing, and it might take alittle while.
One thing actually, one ladysaid at the.
conference that I just thoughtwas epic was be careful too when
you ask one of the indigenouspeople for the answer and if
they don't have the answerstraight away you're like oh you
don't even know.
(31:47):
There's been a lot of damagedone with colonization so
there's a lot of lost knowledgeor disconnection from knowledge
so as you said a lot of theirpeoples over there are having to
learn their knowledge again sowhakamā or that embarrassment
about not knowing.
So also that, that if you comein hot, expecting the Māori
(32:09):
person on site to knoweverything about Māori, te ao
Māori, and they might actuallyreally shy away from that
because they didn't get raisedin it and they're just learning
themselves.
Don't make that a problem orlook at them differently, like
it's creating a safe space forthem to explore their culture.
Greg (32:26):
Yeah.
Awesome.
Lovely place to end.
Hey, thanks very much for yourtime.
Briar (32:32):
You're welcome.
Greg (32:32):
Great conversation and yeah, just the beginning of a
year and we're all doing a bitof planning and I know you're
doing a bit of planning and andscoping out where things are
going to go.
All the best with that and nodoubt we'll keep in touch.
Yeah, for sure.
Cool.
Another powerful discussion onthe culturally intelligent
safety professional, which I'vemelded down into a few key
(32:56):
takeaways.
First, use indigenous knowledgeas a guide for well being and
safety.
Briar emphasises the importanceof indigenous wisdom in shaping
personal well being andworkplace safety.
She drew from Māori perspectivesand her study of rongoā, or
traditional healing, tohighlight how reconnecting with
(33:19):
Papatūānuku or, Mother Earthfosters resilience and mental
strength.
The idea that healthy peoplelead to safer workplaces is
central.
Well being isn't just a nice tohave, but a foundation for
safety and productivity.
(33:41):
Briar discussed the power ofconnection to land, culture, and
each other, indigenous knowledgesees humans as a part of, not
separate from nature.
This deep interconnection iscrucial for both environmentally
sustainability and personalbalance.
(34:03):
Briar shared how traditionalpractices like blessing the land
before high risk work caninfluence workplace safety
culture and mental well being.
Organisations should createspace for genuine cultural
practices rather than tokenisticgestures.
Making sure there isunderstanding of tikanga,
(34:23):
protocols.
Helps avoid disconnect or lackof engagement.
When it comes to culturalintelligence and safety
leadership, one of the biggestcultural intelligence mistakes
safety professionals make isassuming knowledge or lack of
knowledge within diverse teams.
(34:44):
Instead of imposing a dominantculture, leaders should listen,
learn, and empower differentcultural perspectives.
Briar compares this to the ideaof the three sisters planting
method, which incorporates corn,beans, and squash all working
together.
Similarly, different workplacecultures shouldn't be blended
(35:07):
into one but should complementand strengthen each other.
And lastly, bringing indigenousknowledge into everyday work.
Briar's Korowai weaving projectis a powerful metaphor, by
incorporating natural materials,traditional dyes, and
storytelling, she connects herwork to history, identity and
(35:33):
purpose.
Similar approaches can be usedin a health and safety
perspective, creating rituals,storytelling, and culturally
aligned practices, which canmake safety messages more
impactful.
The key is integration, notassimilation.
Indigenous knowledge shouldstand on its own rather than
(35:56):
being forced to fit into Westernframeworks.
Some practical actions forhealth and safety professionals.
One, learn some basic culturalgreetings and protocols for the
cultures that you work with.
It shows respect and buildstrust.
Involve workers in settingworkplace tikanga or guidelines
(36:19):
that align with their culturalvalues.
Making safety feel moreintrinsic rather than, imposed.
Recognize that not allindigenous employees will have
deep cultural knowledge.
So support their journey,instead of expecting them to be
cultural experts.
(36:41):
And understand the culturalvalues that may influence risk
perception.
And we've talked about thisbefore on this podcast, like the
Filipino concept of Bahalana.
which can impact on safetybehaviours.
This episode really explored howsmall steps can create big
change.
(37:02):
Bri's experiences with the bookBraiding Sweetgrass and her
international learning journeyshows that change starts at a
local level.
Safety professionals.
don't need to be culturalexperts, rather they should take
small thoughtful actions likeacknowledging tikanga, fostering
(37:22):
cultural dialogue, andsupporting indigenous wisdom
which can lead to big shifts inhow workplaces approach safety
and well being.
So we've come to the end of this episode, thanks so much
for listening.
I hope you found somethingvaluable that you can take away
(37:42):
that might enhance aspects ofyour own cultural intelligence.
I'll add the transcript from theepisode to the show notes.
If you'd like to talk aboutcultural intelligence, get in
touch with me via LinkedIn.
I'm posting content regularly,so keep an eye on your feed and
comment if you see somethingthat resonates.
If we aren't connected, send mean invite.
(38:03):
If you want to hear more aboutCQ, you can follow and subscribe
to this podcast, I would reallyappreciate it if you did that,
and keep an eye out for the nextepisode.
Ma te wa.
Hi, everyone welcome to another episode of the
Culturally Intelligent SafetyProfessional, a podcast aimed at
providing a platform where bysafety professionals can develop
a pathway to enhance theircultural intelligence capability
which will help them functionmore effectively when working in
a multicultural situation.
(00:20):
I'm Greg Dearsly your host and Ihave a range of guests lined up
to talk to this year.
We have people with experiencesacross leadership psychology,
health and safety, education andof course cultural intelligence.
All of our guests come from awide range of different
backgrounds across the diversityspectrum, including from
(00:41):
different organizationalcontext.
In this podcast you'll hearstories aimed at helping you the
listener enhance your culturalintelligence.
You'll gain an understanding ofhow you can create trust when
working in diverse environmentsand quite frankly, that's all
the time no matter howhomogenous the place you work at
might be, it's still full ofdiversity, people with different
(01:05):
backgrounds, experiences andbeliefs, all built on their
figured world Okay, in thisepisode we're talking with Briar
Moffatt of Whare Kōtāre.
Briar's mahi provides mindsetcoaching services to guide you
to lead a life of abundance,inspired by natural wisdom.
(01:26):
Where we look at the rhythms ofPapatūānuku, and for our non New
Zealand listeners, Mother Earth,Mother Nature, to guide us to
delve into our own inherentstrengths and build resilience
and mental strength to thrive.
And I guess the tagline thatcomes along with that is
providing a safe space andempowering space for people to
(01:49):
reconnect with their own purposeand the natural world.
Kia ora Briar, great to have youon the show.
Briar (01:54):
kia ora great to be here.
Greg (01:56):
do you want to you got a bit of an intro that you wanna
do?
Tell us about yourself.
Briar (02:01):
Yeah, sure.
So I'll start, I guess with meko Tararua te maunga, ko Ōtaki
me Ōhau nga Awa, ko Tainui tewaka, ko Ngāti Tukorehe te Iwi,
ko Ngāti Raukawa ki te Tonga teiwi.
No Ōhau ahau ko Briar MoffattToko Ingoa.
(02:23):
So born and bred in Ōtaki andnow living in the beautiful
Ohau, and very proud NgātiTukorehe wahine nice.
Greg (02:31):
Nice.
Most people don't, probablydon't know where Ohau is.
Briar (02:34):
Ohau, oh yeah, in the mighty Horowhenua.
Greg (02:37):
Mighty Horowhenua, little beachside town about what,
probably about 30 k's south ofwhere we are now.
Briar (02:45):
Yeah, so halfway between Wellington and Palmy North.
On the west coast.
Greg (02:48):
Nice vineyard there too.
tell us about Briar.
How did you come to we know howyou came to be in Ohau but what
about from a professionalperspective?
What's your life story?
Briar (02:58):
Let's go somewhere between Elevator Pitch and the
Long Story.
I guess where I am now withWhare Kōtari.
So Whare Kōtari is home toKingfisher.
So Kōtari is that beautifulKingfisher and they have just
this beautiful strength, wisdom.
They're also highly discerningof water systems.
So if you're seeing Kōtariaround, the waterways nearby are
(03:18):
really clear and pure.
And they tend to watch, look,gather information and when
they're ready, they go.
So they're this real Poe for meon just that strength of
knowledge, and conviction ofaction.
And they resemble abundance andluck and all that beautiful
stuff, which I think we alldeserve to have in our lives.
So when I was starting mywellness company, I was looking
for Tohu like that, and I wasseeing a lot of signs there's a
(03:40):
lot of Kingfisher around aswell, and it's connected into
our whānau.
Started my wellness companyafter working in safety for
about a decade in theconstruction industry in
Aotearoa And through all of thatI noticed that people themselves
weren't necessarily well andthriving.
And I was having to work insidesystems where people actually
(04:04):
weren't present at worknecessarily.
They had a lot going on in theirminds, busy minds from home
life, personal life and thatpeople didn't really have the
tools to regulate self in theworkplace and, or in home life.
So I was like, Hey, what if I goback to the start and work with
the people and then I couldcontribute to safety through
(04:25):
helping produce healthier peoplewho could then turn up more
focus because they were able towork through the challenges in
their lives instead of maybebeing distracted and also
conversations can be had withless, I'm going to say ego,
fraction when people know how tobe in healthier and perhaps.
(04:49):
Yeah, just able to have achallenging conversation and
chat, open in the workplace toovercome problems.
Greg (04:56):
A recovering safety professional.
Yeah! And I guess having workedin the construction industry
with a lot of blokey blokes.
That emotional intelligence,that being stuff of probably 15
years ago.
Yeah.
Didn't really exist a lot.
(05:16):
It was all, we're all good, wecan handle this.
Briar (05:19):
Yeah.
I've heard people say, oh,mental health, I don't need
that.
Oh, actually, that's the thingwe all aspire to.
Yeah.
Tell me how you're so good atit.
Yeah.
What are your tricks?
Yeah.
But yeah, it's been, Because Iworked in transport straight out
of uni, or polytech.
I worked in the transportindustry and then went into the
mines in Aussie.
So I worked FIFO in Aussie for awhile, not in safety, but that
(05:41):
was where my safety careerkicked off.
As a safety rep over there, andthen Pike River happened in
Aotearoa while I was there, andI saw the effect.
Even on people who, we were in agold mine and partners of people
working in that gold mine werethen extra worried about their
partners coming to work in thesafety aspect of it.
Even though it wasn't a coalmine, didn't have those risks,
(06:01):
it really fretted a lot ofpeople.
So I actually came home fromthat industry to retrain in
safety to work in the gold mine.
To, it's to give a voice topeople and help them navigate
the system that is expected ofthem in the workplace.
It was where I saw me in safety.
So it was always for the people,so that transition from safety
into wellness kind of probablywas a natural movement, but it
(06:25):
was always for extending safety.
Greg (06:27):
And I suppose with with, obviously there's a well being
thing, but obviously there'salso that connection to The
earth and the environment andyou talk about Papatūānuku and
Mother Earth and that connectionand I guess just to fast forward
to, one of the things thatconnected us a little bit more
(06:48):
was, the Braiding Sweetgrassbook.
Those that haven't heard a bookcalled Braiding Sweetgrass by
Robin Kimmerer I dunno how topronounce his second name
actually.
Robin Wall Kimmerer.
And as you look through theindexes or the contents page of
that book was some reallyinspirational titles, isn't
there?
(07:08):
Really spark imagination.
Maple Sugar Moon, Epiphany ofthe Beans, and the Gift of
Strawberries.
But the one that caught myattention, and it was one of the
really first chapters, wasCouncil of Pecans.
And, um, just not only did Ilearn about the history of the
pecan nut, which I think frommemory, pecan actually means
(07:32):
nut.
In the indigenous language ofnorth America, and so we're
talking about a nut.
But also about the history ofcolonization in that part of the
world.
And I guess you could almostwrite that chapter.
On the pecan nut from anindigenous New Zealand
(07:53):
perspective, and I don't know,maybe you could call it travels
with the kumara or something.
I don't know, because it's goingto be a very similar story, I'm
guessing.
Briar (08:02):
Yeah, there was so much synergy in between what I've
experienced and learned inAotearoa and studying Rongoa.
Māori along, it just dovetailedinto Braiding Sweetgrass, like
while I was reading it.
Best recommend ever by the way.
Thank you.
Like a pivotal life changingbook where I just saw in it
(08:25):
things that resonated in me thatI was like, oh, I always thought
that, but didn't even know Ithought it like that.
That's how I, that's so true.
And then studying rongoa aswell, seeing that it's all this
Oneness with nature.
We are not higher or lower.
We are in it.
We are part of the system.
And nature has this beautifulway of healing and repairing.
(08:48):
It will heal us.
If the land is well, we're well.
ko au te whenua, ko whenua teau.
I am the land and the land isme.
And without a connection withnature, we are disconnected.
So connection with humans andnature is just crucially
important for wellness.
Greg (09:05):
Yep.
Yeah, so it's pretty.
It's a pretty special book andsome of those stories that she
tells about about the upbringingof those people.
And their connection with theland.
As I say, there's the pecanstory, but then there's a story
about, I don't know, I thinkthere was one about fishing in a
pond and there's one aboutstrawberries and there's all
(09:27):
sorts of different things that,she's just a fantastic
storyteller.
And you got, as you say, it wasa bit of a life changing read,
and somewhere along the line youmanaged to get hold of this
woman and about four or fivemonths ago you ended up in the
(09:48):
States on a workshop with her.
What's it all about?
Briar (09:54):
Where there's a will, there's a way.
If you're living in alignmentwith your core values, oh mate,
you'll move heaven and earth todo a thing.
But yeah, a few stand out.
So from her book, I'd ended upgrowing a garden with the three
sisters, which is corn and thenbeans and then squash.
So corn goes first, beans growup it.
Yeah.
And so I was like, Hey, this,I've taken action from this
(10:15):
person's advice and I reallyconnect with how she is and when
I love to travel.
And so I've switched mytraveling from, I want to see at
the seven wonders of the worldto I want to go to places and
learn.
How indigenous knowledge is donethere.
So learning a lot here at homeand then when I go places, what
can they teach me?
And so I vowed and declared tomyself that when I went, I'd go
(10:37):
for learning moments and went,surely she's doing a tour and
tracked it down and yes, she wasdoing a three day what we call
noho in New Mexico on a ranch, a20, 000 acre cattle ranch in New
Mexico.
Abiquiu in New Mexico.
And yeah, booked myself promptlyover there and tied it in was
able to visit some incrediblehumans in the States while I was
(10:59):
there.
And just knew that it would beworth going to.
Yeah.
And came away just, Empoweredand uplifted and it was like
this affirmation, a deepaffirmation that the things that
A, we're coming up against herein New Zealand aren't, we're not
the only ones.
Disruption of connection to landand self.
(11:20):
is around the world inindigenous peoples, but that
indigenous knowledge is sopowerful.
And so that's what shechampioned through all of it,
was that indigenous knowledgegoing first and then backed up
by Western science.
So we'd call that mātaurangaMāori, so yeah, send that out
first.
It's got all of that old, deepand ancient knowledge behind it
(11:40):
and then support it with, withthe new take that Western
science can give to things.
So they're not mutuallyexclusive, but just don't let
the science rampage all overeverything without a direction.
Greg (11:53):
If I recall rightly, you weren't the only Kiwi there?
Briar (11:55):
There was another Kiwi.
Oh, was I?
No, I was the only Kiwi, butthere were two Aussies in the
room.
Yeah, about a hundred andsomething of us at this ranch.
So yeah, quite a beautifulnumber of people to get around
and start to build a networkconnection again.
And we, the main tasking of itwas sometimes when the picture
is so big, it can becomeoverwhelming.
(12:18):
And then if we don't know how totake steps to action anything,
we can close down and then justhit stall.
And we don't do anything withthat beautiful knowledge.
So it was raise awareness andwhat's the plan?
So what's your action leavinghere from?
And one of your ones was raise agarden, raise good kids and
raise a ruckus.
(12:39):
And cause we talked about, Iwrote it down the other day.
It was like this thing for me,it was global action at a local
level.
So we can't fix the world.
But we can take action locallytowards a similar outcome.
And that just empowers and itgives for local nuance.
Because not how they do it inAmerica will work here, it will
(13:01):
be similar, but you can't cookiecutter it.
And it gives space for eachbeautiful indigenous nation
around the world, of which we'reall a part of some indigenous
nation somewhere just letting itthrive and stand up in that
local area.
And rongoa, our rongoa teachesus that what grows locally for
us is best for us locally asmedicines too which promotes you
(13:21):
to tend the land and connectwith the land so that you know
what's there and what's localand what can help you, which
then you know what you'reprotecting.
It's hard to be kaitiaki forsomething if you're like super
disconnected, never get off theconcrete, don't go outside.
Greg (13:38):
And so just thinking about some of those cultural aspects
around indigenous you getinvolved in a whole heap of
them, right?
I see your social media contentall the time and you're growing
things and you're making thingsout of natural products and
you've got something going on atMassey University where you're
trialling with plant dyes andall sorts of different things
and you're doing some weavingand there's a lot going on
(14:00):
there.
Briar (14:00):
Yeah.
There's always heaps going on inmy world.
Greg (14:05):
And the korowai thing, you've talked about that.
Again, we haven't spoken aboutit, but I've seen the content
online about you've taken it todifferent parts of the world
that you've been to.
Just to, again, create some sortof connection with indigenous
people.
I think was Tahiti recently?
Briar (14:21):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I started this beautifulkorowai for intending for anyone
connected with my business to beable to wear as an empowerment
piece.
So if you're doing cool things,whatever that means to you then.
The design of it, and thethinking of it, and the weaving
of it, and then the dyes that Iused are from Rongoa Rākau.
So I've taken the plantmedicines that I like the most,
(14:42):
and they were most connected atthe time with, and then dyed the
thread for my tani kō with them.
So it tells this beautifulgraduating story as well of, so
from Harakeke to Mānuka toTātaramoa, which is the bush
lawyer, and then through toGolden Tainui.
And then up to tōtara, so it'sthis graduating size of the
nāhiri as well, so it's amovement as well.
(15:05):
And then as I've woven her I'vetaken her to all the places that
I go to, so she travels so it'sagain promoting movement and
things, yeah, so I went toTahiti.
She's been to the Sunshine Coasta few times.
Been over to the States.
Been a few places all aroundAotearoa.
So I take her when I'm weavingher.
And because it's a Things aren'tIt's Things have person, not
(15:28):
personalities, but more like thesentient creature kind of
conversation of our trees aren'tan it.
A lot, it's a lot easy to cutdown an it.
But when you connect withsomething and when we harvest we
need to connect.
There's a wairua piece of can Ibe here?
Am I allowed?
To take.
And sometimes the answer's no.
The forest will tell ya.
(15:49):
If you're not following tikanga,the answer's no.
Greg (15:52):
Yeah, absolutely.
And Braiding Sweetgrass talksabout that actually, doesn't
she?
She talks about that a lot interms of the connection, the
relationship, the, yeah, betweenthe farmer, and the land.
And actually you would you wentdown the forestry path, and I
remember I did some work for aforestry company.
A couple of years ago and thehealth and safety person there,
(16:12):
I think it was the health andsafety person told me that
they'd had a worker who wasreally anxious about going into
the forest at that particularblock.
That they were working and itwas because there'd been no no
blessing of the land or themachinery and then when you read
into the I guess is it themātauranga or the tikanga
(16:34):
around.
Processing a forest, this goesway back to Tāne Mahuta and the
process of chopping trees down.
And the tikanga way.
And if you don't follow that andyou've got a bunch of Māori
workers, it's probably not goingto be particularly comfortable
(16:55):
for them.
Briar (16:55):
I noticed even the Did this kind of instinctively in
safety work and now I get what Iwas doing and some of the why.
Which is sometimes like we havethis wisdom inside ourselves
that we don't always know whereit's come from.
But it's like it's our gifts.
But I always, aimed to start anyproject that we worked on in
construction following a processand Te Ao Māori gives us this
(17:18):
process of starting withintention, following process,
and closing with intention.
And it's systems based.
It makes sense, but it humanisesand gives wairua to a work
project.
So we'd set up with intent, do afull walkover, and always have
everyone that was going to beworking on the project in the
room at the start, barbecue,start up, and it just would go
(17:40):
well.
And you put everyone on the samepage at the start, the
conversations that needed tohappen would just all happen
organically, as they needed toat once.
And then you keep going likethat, and then when it's
finished, and I don't think atthat time we were doing karakia,
but it was the, you're imbuingthe worksite with intent, and
then at the end of it you'reclosing it with intent, and you
(18:01):
pack it all down and it's done,and karakia does that, when you
open something and closesomething.
And then inside it is safelyheld the intention or the
process or the what we're herefor.
Greg (18:15):
Yeah and I think a lot of Employees and a lot of employers
sometimes struggle with gettingthat right because it does
sometimes come across as a bittokenistic.
Briar (18:29):
The dialogue cutting here.
Greg (18:31):
Just making sure that there is a legitimate, There's
reason, there's understanding.
This is why we're doing it.
Not, oh, we're going to do thisbloody karakia thing and because
the book says I had somebodytalk to me about a year ago
saying, oh, we've been forced toput ngā mihi on all of our email
signatures.
(18:51):
You've got to do it for theright reasons and understand why
you're doing it.
And I guess believe in the factthat it's helping some people.
Might not be relevant toeverybody, but there's certainly
people that will value that.
Briar (19:07):
Yeah, I think it's a beautiful way of uplifting
knowledge too, having some ofthose framework expectations.
I remember one job we opened inState 4 a while back.
We had everyone there, iwi wasthere, we were starting out the
project, Waka Kotahi was there,and then someone, a workmate
said to me, If anyone has tospeak, that's going to be you.
(19:30):
And I'm like, I froze and almostpuked because I was like, my
heart stopped.
I was like, I haven't got thereo.
I don't know what to do andfreaked out.
And then it turned out he wasjust missing, but it really
stopped me.
And then I went, I'm never goingto feel like that again.
And put this onus on myself tolearn a few karakia, and at
least a basic waiata, which itturned out I didn't, I just, my
(19:51):
brain stalled.
And I could have muffed fumbledmy way through it.
Greg (19:55):
But I think that's another thing that gets stuck in the
tokenistic sort of thing too,isn't it?
That organisations just go tothe closest Māori and say, can
you do a karakia or a waiata orwhatever?
And maybe there's an opportunityfor non Māori to learn some of
that stuff and say.
And I just, I've got an exampleof that actually we had an
INSHPO meeting in New Zealand inSeptember last year.
(20:18):
So I had people from Canada andAmerica and UK and Korea and
various other places, Australia.
And we had coordinated andarranged for the local iwi to
come and do a bit of apresentation.
And Jodhi from.
Te Ropu Marutau o Aotearoa wasgoing to come and talk about
(20:40):
some of the stuff that they'redoing but they weren't going to
be there prior to lunch, and soI just took it on myself to get
myself a pre meal karakia.
And as it happened, I think theplace where we were at had one,
on a stand next to where all thefood was, but I didn't know that
(21:01):
going in.
But yeah, it's no harm in doingthat.
Briar (21:07):
I've noticed, especially big groups, so like I've worked
big construction site teams, andit tends to just put a pause in.
It puts a stop before you start.
Otherwise people kind of driftpast and there's not the
respecting of the kai that'sbeen put out.
And then, people just drift,where if you've got that
framework, and someone doesbless the kai, and that can even
(21:27):
be Whatever.
It's just a, hey, here's athing.
Someone put the effort in
Greg (21:33):
And I think the other thing that I learned through
this process too was, and I'velearned that a lot about, a lot
of Tikanga protocols that I'velooked into don't have to have
religious overtones.
The, actually the Karakia that Idid pre meal was I guess about
acknowledging the people thatgrew the product and distributed
it and did the work to get it tothe to the plate.
(21:55):
And that doesn't have to, and Ithink sometimes that's a
roadblock for some people, isthat religious sort of
connection.
Briar (22:02):
Interestingly, most of our karakia, or lot, are not
religious as such, like thatwe're speaking to the Atua,
which I guess is spiritualspiritual, yeah.
Yeah, and I know it can be ahang up for people that don't
like to do it if it's religious,but when it's simply blessing
the land for giving us thisbeautiful kai and it's going to
nourish our body, that's onlygood.
Greg (22:25):
Hey, we should bring this back to safety a little bit.
Actually, the other one thing Iwanted to ask you about was You,
do you get involved in searchand rescue around here?
Briar (22:34):
Yeah, I've been on the Horowhenua search and rescue
team for a while, for a fewyears now.
Yeah haven't been out on heapsof searches, but packed me bag a
couple of times.
Yeah,
Greg (22:43):
really?
Yeah.
Excellent.
And how, a lot of training forthat?
Yeah, they're
Briar (22:48):
amazing.
It's such an epic community,national group.
So they teach, they, they reallyknow how to train up their
humans.
They really know how to keep acommunity and a group and a
family situation.
So all the searching, trackingoutdoor first aid, being that's
just a few that I've done in thelast couple of years.
As well as they do big SAR Xsearch rescue operations once a
(23:12):
year normally, plus rivercrossing.
So there's heaps of traininggoes into launching these
everyday humans out the door tolook for people when things have
gone wrong, which is like this,the reason I joined it was that.
I like doing stuff in theoutdoors.
I go on missions, whether it'srunning or tramping, and I'll do
my best to prepare, to the bestof my knowledge, check all the
forecasts, make a planaccordingly, do my thing, and if
(23:34):
something goes wrong, I know theteam's there, and you can call
or push the button, or I justgot my PLB, and then you can
push the envelope a bit, whichis what humans tend to do but
it's Be as best prepared as youcan, and then if something goes
outside of that, then peoplewill come and help you hopefully
fast enough.
But then so I wanted to be apart of that, like providing
(23:54):
that external safety blanket sothat people can go test their
limits, connect to nature, gooutside, get off the footpath.
Yeah.
And in those first, when you're,what is it?
Unconsciously incompetent.
Mistakes can happen, right?
And so you think you'reprepared, but you don't know
what you don't know, yeah.
Greg (24:13):
Nice.
Here's the curveball question.
Bring it back to safety.
Two or three things that youthink health and safety people
should Can do to be moreculturally aware, culturally
intelligent, culturallycompetent, whatever words you
want to use, just to be moreconnected to the culture of the
(24:36):
people that they're working withbecause not everybody thinks
you, as a health and safetyperson, or and, what do they
call that?
Mirror image fallacy?
And just from your experiencesand areas of focus, what do you
reckon would make a betterhealth and safety professional
thinking about culturalintelligence?
Briar (24:55):
Wow.
You asked me this in prep and Iwas like, where am I going to go
with this?
I guess not assuming what youknow, or not assuming what
people don't know.
I've seen that happen a lot.
Just assuming people aren'tintelligent or aren't aware or
aren't confident.
There will be always someone inthe group that is more competent
(25:15):
than you ever imagined.
And to find them, and ask themthings.
And then whether they do that,they don't have to do the doing
though either.
Sometimes it's find out theknowledge that's in your group.
And then, Oh, I was making noteson the fiends and corn.
I was like, I love this as ananalogy.
What can this be?
(25:35):
And so like the corn, if that'sthe indigenous culture inside,
inside a company, give it spaceto grow and get nice and big and
strong and support it as opposedto telling it what to do.
And so if the bean's job is tonurture and give extra nitrogen
to the corn, it's providing thatextra support, or whether it's a
(25:59):
budget, or whether it's not justthinking that only Māori in the
team need to do a thing.
So we've worked with sites witha lot of fillies, a lot of
Filipino workers.
Epic! Mate, they are awesome,fun people.
Loving humans who do real goodwith lots of food around.
(26:19):
So there's all these differentcultures.
Learning how the culture works.
Who's the, if there's, I'm goingto say if there's an alpha,
who's the leader?
And how does that work?
How do people, so in injurycases, people don't like to not
be able to do what they normallydo often.
So some little tricks that wehad was finding a job that was
(26:42):
still giving them relevance inthe team.
So that they could be at workstill, obviously if they weren't
broken enough to still be athome.
Just give them some validitybecause there'll be something
beyond doing the filing.
That still makes them feeluseful in contributing and
ticking the man card if it'sdudes and then or just helping
more.
(27:02):
Then.
To something tokenistic.
Greg (27:04):
Yeah.
The Filipino, workforce issomething that's been a subject
on this podcast previously.
A colleague of mine, JaneFowles, who's in the dairy
industry in the South Island.
I've got a lot of Filipinoworkers.
And Bahalana.
It was one of the, one of the, Ichallenges to jump over.
Bahalana means But for the graceof God, everything will be okay,
(27:29):
right?
And so that's a Filipinocultural concept.
And so then you go and say, I'vegot a hundred Filipino workers
just landed on the ground herewith that at the forefront of
their minds, but that's not howit works.
We think about it, but I can'ttell them that's wrong.
So how do we integrate theirthinking?
(27:50):
How do we navigate that?
And that's not the only place inthe world that type of thinking
exists.
So just understanding some ofthat stuff like that is, and, I
guess I'm not sitting here withthe cultural intelligence hat on
saying you've got to knoweverything about every culture
that you might come acrossbecause that's clearly not
practical.
(28:10):
But if you knew one or twothings.
Briar (28:12):
Yeah.
Even some greetings,
Greg (28:14):
just a couple of words.
Yep, absolutely.
Briar (28:18):
With Māori, tikanga is important knowing what tikanga
are, knowing what, set thetikanga for the project you're
working on.
Help get the team to contributeto setting the rules or the
tikanga.
There's law versus lore right?
So the L O R E will hold muchmore sway than LAW, when,
(28:40):
because people get it, it's anintrinsic thing.
So if you can get the teaminvolved in writing the tikanga
for the work that you're doing,and lining it up with stuff like
whanaungatanga and manaakitanga,then you just, it feels good to
work inside as well.
Greg (28:55):
There's a, actually just thinking about some of that
stuff, there's a bit of a storyand it starts with a question
about where are all the hardhats?
And I can't even remember whotold me the story, but I use it
all the time, and it's, you'reon a construction site or a
forestry site or whatever, abunch of Māori workers there in
the smoko room, where all thehardhats, maybe they're still on
(29:16):
their head or maybe they're onthe floor, and the non Māori
supervisor comes in, takes hishardhat off, Puts it on the
table, and immediately you'velost respect.
Yeah.
It's probably not something thata lot of people are gonna know
or think about if they're notMaori.
Yeah.
But just, it's just a smallthing that doesn't take much to
(29:38):
remember.
Yeah.
That let's put some hooks on thewall or something, yeah.
Briar (29:42):
Because if you're looking after even basic in, in the
workplace, if you're lookingafter a spiritual way to a
health.
Mind health and your tīnana andyour whānau.
That's already great.
And can you take my nature tothat?
And that's the foundation thatyou're building that whānau of
the workplace on.
That looks after everybodysafely, happily, empowered
(30:02):
inside that.
Then it's knowing little thingslike that.
Helping the team set up theworkplace.
What's going to help you followtikanga and not break it?
And also not clutter the floorup with all the hard hats.
Yeah.
Greg (30:14):
Yeah.
Hey, cool.
Anything else you want to add?
Any pearls of wisdom?
Anything you've been thinkingabout?
Briar (30:21):
I think one of the Main key things, and I'm going to
loop it back to BraidingSweetgrass, was this beautiful
message of not blendingcultures.
Back to the corns and the beans.
The corns will always be cornand the beans will always be
beans.
Yeah.
You can't, it's not the merging,it's the how to get the mutual
benefit from both.
And that was this beautifulmessage that she had around not
(30:45):
asking the indigenous culturesto come in and merge with the
other.
And that could happen withincorporate and human value sets
of going, this is what we wantyou to think like versus this is
how you are.
And then that's how your cultureis or your peoples.
So it's letting them beindividual and not, cause as
(31:06):
soon as you try to merge thetwo, the dominant one will win.
So if that's a corporate goingon, this is how you must think
here.
You're just going to end up witha whole bunch of unhappy people.
And the indigenous culture thatyou're trying to awhi.
Won't shine through because youhaven't actually given it space
to.
So it's that letting it gofirst, give the culture in the
workplace and whether that'speople culture or the workplace,
(31:27):
it's culture the environment andthe nurturing and the
nourishing, and it might take alittle while.
One thing actually, one ladysaid at the.
conference that I just thoughtwas epic was be careful too when
you ask one of the indigenouspeople for the answer and if
they don't have the answerstraight away you're like oh you
don't even know.
(31:47):
There's been a lot of damagedone with colonization so
there's a lot of lost knowledgeor disconnection from knowledge
so as you said a lot of theirpeoples over there are having to
learn their knowledge again sowhakamā or that embarrassment
about not knowing.
So also that, that if you comein hot, expecting the Māori
(32:09):
person on site to knoweverything about Māori, te ao
Māori, and they might actuallyreally shy away from that
because they didn't get raisedin it and they're just learning
themselves.
Don't make that a problem orlook at them differently, like
it's creating a safe space forthem to explore their culture.
Greg (32:26):
Yeah.
Awesome.
Lovely place to end.
Hey, thanks very much for yourtime.
Briar (32:32):
You're welcome.
Greg (32:32):
Great conversation and yeah, just the beginning of a
year and we're all doing a bitof planning and I know you're
doing a bit of planning and andscoping out where things are
going to go.
All the best with that and nodoubt we'll keep in touch.
Yeah, for sure.
Cool.
Another powerful discussion onthe culturally intelligent
safety professional, which I'vemelded down into a few key
(32:56):
takeaways.
First, use indigenous knowledgeas a guide for well being and
safety.
Briar emphasises the importanceof indigenous wisdom in shaping
personal well being andworkplace safety.
She drew from Māori perspectivesand her study of rongoā, or
traditional healing, tohighlight how reconnecting with
(33:19):
Papatūānuku or, Mother Earthfosters resilience and mental
strength.
The idea that healthy peoplelead to safer workplaces is
central.
Well being isn't just a nice tohave, but a foundation for
safety and productivity.
(33:41):
Briar discussed the power ofconnection to land, culture, and
each other, indigenous knowledgesees humans as a part of, not
separate from nature.
This deep interconnection iscrucial for both environmentally
sustainability and personalbalance.
(34:03):
Briar shared how traditionalpractices like blessing the land
before high risk work caninfluence workplace safety
culture and mental well being.
Organisations should createspace for genuine cultural
practices rather than tokenisticgestures.
Making sure there isunderstanding of tikanga,
(34:23):
protocols.
Helps avoid disconnect or lackof engagement.
When it comes to culturalintelligence and safety
leadership, one of the biggestcultural intelligence mistakes
safety professionals make isassuming knowledge or lack of
knowledge within diverse teams.
(34:44):
Instead of imposing a dominantculture, leaders should listen,
learn, and empower differentcultural perspectives.
Briar compares this to the ideaof the three sisters planting
method, which incorporates corn,beans, and squash all working
together.
Similarly, different workplacecultures shouldn't be blended
(35:07):
into one but should complementand strengthen each other.
And lastly, bringing indigenousknowledge into everyday work.
Briar's Korowai weaving projectis a powerful metaphor, by
incorporating natural materials,traditional dyes, and
storytelling, she connects herwork to history, identity and
(35:33):
purpose.
Similar approaches can be usedin a health and safety
perspective, creating rituals,storytelling, and culturally
aligned practices, which canmake safety messages more
impactful.
The key is integration, notassimilation.
Indigenous knowledge shouldstand on its own rather than
(35:56):
being forced to fit into Westernframeworks.
Some practical actions forhealth and safety professionals.
One, learn some basic culturalgreetings and protocols for the
cultures that you work with.
It shows respect and buildstrust.
Involve workers in settingworkplace tikanga or guidelines
(36:19):
that align with their culturalvalues.
Making safety feel moreintrinsic rather than, imposed.
Recognize that not allindigenous employees will have
deep cultural knowledge.
So support their journey,instead of expecting them to be
cultural experts.
(36:41):
And understand the culturalvalues that may influence risk
perception.
And we've talked about thisbefore on this podcast, like the
Filipino concept of Bahalana.
which can impact on safetybehaviours.
This episode really explored howsmall steps can create big
change.
(37:02):
Bri's experiences with the bookBraiding Sweetgrass and her
international learning journeyshows that change starts at a
local level.
Safety professionals.
don't need to be culturalexperts, rather they should take
small thoughtful actions likeacknowledging tikanga, fostering
(37:22):
cultural dialogue, andsupporting indigenous wisdom
which can lead to big shifts inhow workplaces approach safety
and well being.
So we've come to the end of this episode, thanks so much
for listening.
I hope you found somethingvaluable that you can take away
(37:42):
that might enhance aspects ofyour own cultural intelligence.
I'll add the transcript from theepisode to the show notes.
If you'd like to talk aboutcultural intelligence, get in
touch with me via LinkedIn.
I'm posting content regularly,so keep an eye on your feed and
comment if you see somethingthat resonates.
If we aren't connected, send mean invite.
(38:03):
If you want to hear more aboutCQ, you can follow and subscribe
to this podcast, I would reallyappreciate it if you did that,
and keep an eye out for the nextepisode.
Ma te wa.
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