The Notorious PhD: Dr. Todd Boyd

Episode Transcript
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Jeff (00:02):
Thank you for tuning in to another episode of the culture,
episode 152.
We're still celebrating BlackHistory Month and we have a very
special guest today to help uscontinue to do that.
This gentleman needs nointroduction.
He is a professor of cinema andmedia studies.

(00:27):
He is a renowned speaker, anin-demand television commentator
, a critically acclaimed author.
His new book actually just cameout.
I got my copy Rappers Deluxehow Hip Hop Made the World.
I'll put that up on the screenso everybody can see and make
sure you all go cop that.

(00:48):
And he's written what Sevenbooks.
Now he's the one and only hiphop professor at the University
of Southern California.
He is known as, or they callhim the notorious PhD, the
incomparable Dr Todd Boyd.

(01:09):
Thank you for coming on,brother.
How can I get an autograph copy?
How can I send this to you andget this autograph?
Man when you at?
Man, this book is beautiful.
Where you at you, in New York,new Jersey.

Dr. Todd Boyd (01:25):
Man we'll have to figure something out Next time.
I'm out that way.

Jeff (01:32):
This book is beautiful man .

Thank you Like everything about it.

Jeff (01:35):
I'm ready to dive into it, thank you, thank you, yeah, but
let's get going.
Man, can you introduce yourselfto an audience?
You need no introduction, butjust give us a brief summary to
our listeners.

Dr Todd Boyd, sometimes known as notorious PhD
.
This is actually my eighth bookand, you know, dropped a couple
weeks back and we out heremaking the rounds trying to
promote it so that everybodyknows it's available and

(02:08):
encouraging people to cop andcheck it out and, you know, get
into what I tried to put down inthe book.

Jeff (02:16):
Yeah, and I mean, I think this book and yourself as a
guest, is like the physicalembodiment of you.
Know what this podcast isbecause you know you represent
the culture and the things youtalk about is the same things
that we talk about on thispodcast the culture, the genre,
hip hop, you know racism, alittle bit of sports and we try

(02:37):
to tie it all together.
Tell us a little bit about you.
Know what made you write thisbook?
I know you've been writing itfor a few years now.

I mean, I've been telling people, you know, as
I'm doing the rounds promotingit.
I've been telling people that Iactually started writing this
book when I was nine years old.
I just didn't, I just didn'trealize it.
You know, I was nine years old,a year, cool Herc through the
legendary party that weidentified as the beginning of

(03:05):
hip hop, and you know the imagesfrom that era the music, film,
sports, overall culture andeverything after.
It was with me, you know, andhas been with me all these years
.
I mean, I actually startedwriting it back in, I think,
2021.
The year gets fuzzy, but youknow, I think the thing that's

(03:28):
important is, you know, we'vebeen talking about 50 years of
hip hop and you know, 50 yearsis a long time.
That's not a trend or a fad.
You don't have 50 year trendsor 50 year fads when you're
around for 50 years.
That's, that's substantial.
And I feel like, you know, 10years ago, 20 years ago, I

(03:52):
couldn't have written this book.
I needed everything totranspire and play out the way
it has in order to write it.
So you know, here we are.
I mean, maybe year 51 now, butyou know, even beyond that, when
I started writing a book, Iwasn't necessarily thinking
about 50 years.
At some point in the process.

(04:12):
I think I realized it wouldkind of coincide with that.
But the story of hip hop is onethat's unfolded from the 70s
and 80s, 90s and we cover allthis in the book from the
beginning, you know, to thepresent, and try and give you
the fact that this is half acentury.
You know this is, this is halfa century and there's a lot of

(04:33):
substance there and I wantpeople to come away from it
recognizing this is epic and youneed to understand those 50
years to understand how epic itreally is.

Jeff (04:48):
Yeah for sure, no doubt.
I mean we're going to jumparound.
We got a lot of topics todiscuss.
You know, talking about 50years of hip hop, what can you
tell us about?
You know where the culture isgoing when considering where it
came from.
You know, you created theacademic study of hip hop.
Others teach hip hop and KRS.1is the first person that comes
to mind because I know heteaches it in universities and

(05:09):
so forth.
But you're, you're, you're the,you're the first one, correct?
Yeah, as?

far as I know.
I mean, I think you know what Ioften say about this is you
know I come from the culture.
You know there may be otherpeople who by this time are
doing their thing, but I'm thefirst one to come out of the

(05:41):
culture.
You know right.
And you know I was MCing backwhen MCs were expected to.
You know, get the crowd hype.
I'm an OG in this, you know.
So I'm a few years before RockHim start bringing the poetry to
the bars.
So I don't have bars for youlike that.

Jeff (06:03):
But I'm about to say you're going to give us a couple
bars or 16.

Now I ain't got them kind of bars for you,
because I'm actually before thattime, but I have the most
respect for it.
But you know everything I talkabout in the book.
I mean particularly in theearly chapters.
The book is broken up into fivechapters, starting with the 70s
, ending with the 2010s andbeyond to where we are now.
But you know everything I talkabout in the book.

(06:29):
I lived it, I experienced it,I'm familiar with it, I know
about it and I was doing this,you know, 20 years before I
became a professor, before Ifinished graduate school, got my
PhD and started, you know,doing my thing USC School of
Cinematic Arts dealing withpopular culture.

(06:50):
You know film, music, television, sports, fashion, art, all that
.
So what I give you in the bookis personal, it's also
professional and I think that'swhat makes it unique is, you
know, back in the early 90s,when I started at USC, right
after the LA riots, people werelooking at me crazy.

(07:14):
You know, when I was talkingabout hip hop in a college class
, you know people looking at mereal funny.
Now it's different.
You know, 30 years later,people can appreciate it in ways
that they couldn't back then.
So you know, for me, it was allabout what I had lived, but
also what I studied, what Iresearched, what I observed,

(07:36):
what I wrote about, and hittingit at those two levels, as I say
, I think, is what makes itunique, because it's personal,
but it's also professional, andyou don't find too many people,
if any, who have come about it,and certainly not before I was
doing it back then.

Jeff (07:53):
Yeah, I mean I'm what the these I wouldn't say the younger
kids would call an old head.
You know my playlist is goingto have mostly 80s and 90s rap
and stuff like that.
So I wanted to ask you how hasthe genre changed from its
inception in the 70s to what itis now, and has it changed for
the better in your opinion?

I mean, I think it has changed substantially.
You know, for the 70s, if youthink about it and this is what
I talk about in the book formuch of the 70s, unless you were
, you know, in the Bronx or inQueens, or unless you were on
the scene, you didn't hear themusic.
You had to be there andparticipate in it.
But then, you know, once themusic is available on the radio,

(08:36):
you can hear it anywhere.
And then later, when videos,you know, start to blow up, you
can see it.
And so you know, I think that'sa big difference.
You know, I remember the firsttime I heard rappers delight.
Then I heard Curtis blow.
You know I was in high schoolwhen this music came out.

(08:57):
Like you know, everybody I knewwas digging rappers delight and
I was on Kurt Blow and I likedChristmas rapping better than I
did the breaks, you know.
And then you know when SugarHill came back with Apache and
Sequence, I mean I remember allthis like vividly before we get

(09:17):
to Bambata.
And you know what I'm saying.
Master Flash, you know DMC I'min college by this point.
So you know I've been theresince before it started, and I
remember particularly everybodywas getting off on.
You know Michael Jackson andPrince.

(09:39):
You know early nineties and I'mtrying to listen to DMC, you
know.
So you know, thinking about itfrom that perspective and having
observed it, I mean, as Imentioned, rock Kim, you know
Rock Kim came with the poetry.
You know, cat like Big DaddyKane, nwa, ice Cube, you know my

(10:03):
God, chuck D and Public Enemy.
So you know, I mean, if you askme what I'm putting on my list,
a lot of it's going to comefrom that era.
But you know about the nineties, everything blew up.
You know Big and Pock and Nasand Wu Tang, jay-z, I mean Puff,
I mean you know Outkast, I meanyou know, just every decade you

(10:31):
got these new artists who weredoing their thing and kind of
building on what came before it.
And then you know, you get upto the present and I'm like you
know, I listened to a lot ofthese young cats and can
appreciate what they're doing.
You know I respect it.

Jeff (10:49):
I can't put a finger on what to call this era because
you know it started off with aparty rap and hyping up the
crowd and hyping up your DJ.
Then it went to more lyricalwith rock, eminem, then it went
to social commentary and then itwent to the gangster rap, which
was an offshoot of the socialcommentary.
Then we have the 90s.

(11:09):
It was back to lyrical andstorytelling.
But now I don't know what tocall this without without you
know, without dissing it,without insulting it, you know,
without calling it mumble rap, Idon't know what to call this
era.
I guess this is the vibe era.
That's what the young kidswould call it.

I mean, you know I, you know I try to be tolerant
.
I think it's the word I woulduse.
What I recognize is that my age?
Now, you know, I'm not.
I'm not the target audience, soI don't want to you know.
I don't want to dismiss what isintended for somebody else, but

(11:46):
as a long time participant andobserver of the culture, I mean,
you know, I hear cat like Drake.
I hear cat like J Cole.
I mean J Cole's got bars,whatever era he's in.
It's like, in a lot of waysit's kind of like the NBA.
You know, if you could hoop,you could hoop and you know you
might be part of one era oranother, but a great hooper can

(12:07):
fit in any era and they had theability to adapt to the
circumstances of that era.
So you know, I don't know whatpeople are doing now.
Specifically, I feel like a lotof what happened before.
Like I say in the book, youknow, when you get to the fourth
chapter of the book and you'retalking about the 2000s, hip hop

(12:29):
helped elect a president.
You know I mean Obama's verymuch part of what hip hop and
its impact you know had onAmerica.
And when you do that, like whatelse is there to do after?
You know it's like we helpedelect a president, you know.
So now you have Kendrick Lamarwinning a Pulitzer Prize, nas

(12:53):
performing with the NationalSymphony Orchestra at the
Kennedy Center, you know JMBeyoncé and a Tiffany's
commercial with a Basquiat.
You know Swiss Beats and AliciaKeys with their art collection.
You know people are talkingabout buying paintings as
opposed to buying cars andsneakers, so it's like
whatever's going on now is cool.

(13:13):
Nas with his investments, yeah,yeah, I mean we could list.
There's a whole long list ofthings we could mention of how,
you know, the game, like Bigsaid, went from actually to
classy, like where we are now islike so much further than where
we started.
And so I feel, like thisyounger generation, it's time
for them to like do their thing,but they have a great

(13:36):
foundation from which to do it.
I'm from the era when thefoundation was being built, so
it's a different perspective.

Jeff (13:45):
Yeah, I wanted to read a quote that you gave to the
publication, the rap regardingyour book, where you said this
book is about the culture.
The music is part of.
The culture, is the frame thatyou sort of see everything
through, but it's also movies,fashion, language, politics,
sports and art.
I was interested in all theseconnections beyond the music and

(14:06):
I'm glad you mentioned the NBAbecause I wanted to tell we just
had the All Star Weekend thatjust passed, and it wasn't
recently, it was a couple ofyears ago.
You had mentioned on the RichEisen show the importance of MJ
and speaking of Michael Jordanin his documentary speaking
about.
He spoke about the George Floydincident, and we all know that

(14:27):
Jordan never really spoke onsocial issues ever, and so I
wanted to ask you how importantis it for for some of these
athletes, especially blackathletes, to speak out about
social and cultural issues?
Cause I feel like LeBron rightnow for this era, he's that guy
that speaks up.
When we was coming up, wedidn't have a guy like that, I
mean I look at it in terms ofgeneration, I mean Jordan.

I mean Jordan's a year older than me.
You know, we were in college atthe same time and I think for a
lot of people back then, I meanJordan was in a unique position
.
But you know, I think thethinking at the time was, you
know, if you look at it, yousort of pull back.
You know you have Muhammad Aliand John Carlos and Tommy Smith.

(15:12):
You have that generation.
Michael Jordan represents adifferent generation and LeBron
represents a differentgeneration.
From that, and I think we are,we are all products of our
generation.
In a way.
The thinking at the time, youknow, when Michael was in the
mix, was don't do anythingthat's gonna interfere with your
bag, so to speak.

Anthony (15:33):
Right, right, you wanna sell them sneakers.

Yeah, and you know I don't know if that really
aged well and I think even herealizes it when it comes up now
.
You know he even says in thelast dance, you know I was
selfish and I recognize I wasselfish.
I think this is what he said.
I think he recognizes now,maybe at the time that made

(15:56):
sense but it doesn't age welland perhaps if, given the
opportunity for, you know, redo,he might have approached it
differently or maybe not, butyou're not gonna get no redo.
So this is why we talk about it.
I think in that generation thething was, as I say, like do
what you can to get your bag.
Lebron's part of a differentgeneration, you know Michael got

(16:21):
a bag.
I mean the generation before usyou know you're talking Kareem,
dr J was altogether different.
I mean you know it hadn't beenthat long that the game had been
integrated, relatively speaking.
So the further you get awayfrom that, I think, the more
freedom you have.
And LeBron and LeBron'sgeneration is in a position

(16:42):
where they have stood out andspoken up and I mean go back to
the bubble.
You know, during COVID andeverything you know, there were
guys who wanted to lead a bubbleto go and like, participate in
those George Floyd protests.
So I have a great deal ofrespect, you know, for what
LeBron is doing.
Honestly, I think Mike might'vegot a bad rap.

(17:04):
I can understand it from agenerational perspective.
I just think you know,sometimes you say things in a
moment and you have no idea howthey're gonna age.
And that statement aboutRepublicans by Nikes, too,
didn't age well.
But you know, a lot of peopleat the time felt the same way
that he did.

(17:24):
They just didn't have theresources.

Jeff (17:29):
And since we're in the topic of sneakers, you know
Trump dropped his new, neversurrendered, but I call them the
Air Force Trumps.
And there's a Fox Newscontributor yeah, fox News, a
gentleman by the name of RaymondArroyo, and I wanna get into
the topic of racism and you letme know, both of y'all, let me
know if this is racist Becausehe goes.

(17:51):
His exact comment was this isconnecting with black America
because they love sneakers.
He said this is a big deal,certainly in the inner city.
So when you have Trump roll outhis sneaker line, they're like
wait a minute, this is cool.
He's reaching them on a levelthat defies and is above
politics.
The culture always trumpspolitics and Trump understands

(18:13):
culture like no politician I'veever seen.
So when I first read that, Iwas like all right, this sounds
a little racist.

It's certainly ignorant, very ignorant.
I mean, you know, I kept I sawon social media earlier today.
I saw several people post that,several people and I honestly
just kept laughing because whenI saw the shoes, I think maybe

(18:43):
the day before I kept thinkingTom Ford wants his tee back.
If you look at him you can seewhere that like I ain't even
thinking that Graphic design forthat tee comes from.
Yep, I mean, look, you know,I'm a sneakerhead, I'm an OG
sneakerhead.
I've been doing this since 74.
So, yeah, I like sneakers and Iknow a lot of other people that

(19:07):
like sneakers.
I don't think that'snecessarily bad, but you can't
just come up with any kind ofyou know, courtyards sneaker and
think that Buy or vote.
Yeah, yeah, like I just keptlooking at the shoe, I'm like
ain't nobody rocking these?
You know?
I mean maybe if the design onthe sneakers was cool, people

(19:30):
might rock them.
But you know, people in thesneakerhead community are can be
harsh critics.
They don't like every sneakerthat comes out.
So it's like not just about youknow, he's got a sneaker.
Is your sneaker cool and is itsomething that somebody's gonna
wear?
But I think what dude wassaying was really ignorant,

(19:51):
because you know black people,people in the inner city, they
like sneakers and you know Trumpdid this.
So now Trump's going to appealto them.
I mean that just indicates thathe knows nothing about the
culture and he's basing hisopinion on a stereotype and he's

(20:12):
uninformed, I mean.
And I'm sure if we could seewhat he had on his feet when he
said that, that he had trash onhis feet.

Jeff (20:22):
So you know, I mean I wouldn't listen to somebody like
that because clearly he doesn'tknow what he's talking about
and even then the people thatmay or may not have that
mentality are probably not evenold enough to vote Right, the
people that are gonna vote.
I want to know what yourpolicies are.
How can you help my community?

And also you know , okay, even if your sneakers
were cool, you're gonna vote forsomebody because their sneakers
are cool.
Voting and cool sneakers aretwo different things.
You know, and if that's allit's gonna take to get somebody
to vote for you, then you knowthe election would have been
decided a long time ago.

(20:59):
It's much deeper than that.
That's why I keep saying thestatement is ignorant and
honestly, it's so ignorant.
I don't really need to spendthat much time explaining how
ignorant it really is.

Jeff (21:14):
Fact.
So, staying on racist topics, Ihave up here this I don't know
if any of you saw this.
I call it the racist permissionslip out of Miami-Dade County
Public Schools and it saysstudents will participate and
listen to a book written by anAfrican American and the parent
has to sign.
This is an actual permissionslip.

(21:34):
The parent has to sign to allowtheir student to listen to a
book written by a black man.

Yeah, I saw this.
I saw this the other day.

Jeff (21:49):
And right away I tweeted something out.
I said you know, this is theracism that's going on in 2024
still.

Yeah, you, you have to get a form.
You have to get a form signedIn order to listen to a black
speaker.
I Mean this was so ridiculous.
When I saw it I just keptthinking there's got to be more
to the story.
Maybe they're in.
But I just kept thinking thisis just too dumb.
But it is Florida and you knowthe governor of Florida is, you

(22:22):
know he's on one, so Maybe it isas simple as it looks.
But I mean the question is okay, you have to sign a piece of
paper in order for your kid tohear a black speaker.
All right, that makes no senseto me.

Anthony (22:42):
See and I pose these.

Jeff (22:43):
I pulled go ahead.

Anthony (22:44):
Oh, love Jeff.
We had this conversation allthe time.
You also asked me every time Iwas having a second, like it's
just racist, and I always try toexplain to you.
You're confusing racism with IGuess you can say stupidity like
ignorance.
We're being cute about it, likecuz, yeah, but like okay, you

(23:05):
know how you talk about theTrump Seekers.
A few moments ago you ever seenabove the rim.

Jeff (23:10):
Yes, I love that movie.
They were actually giving it acouple days, so right.

Anthony (23:13):
So is a part when Marlon Wayne plays boogaloo.
He comes out to the court withthat gold jumpsuit trying to
hoop Like that's the thingsremind me of.
Like they was clowning themwearing that.
If you're not going to seeanybody in the streets wearing
no sneakers ever, like dr Boydsaid that there's no swag to
them, like you do some ghosts onsomething, american flag and a

(23:37):
Tina like oh man, this is reallygonna capitalize on a black fan
base.
No, it's not how it works.
You're even the person whospoke up after it.
He's just preaching to hisaudience.
He's not talking to blackpeople, so I'm not gonna waste
my energy getting offended byit's like.
I know you're not talking aboutme.
You're speaking to a particularbase that's going to black.

(23:58):
Yeah, that makes a whole lot ofsense.
Black people like sneakers.
That means they like sneakers.
They're like Trump.
If they like Trump, they'llvote for him.
It's not that kind of simplethrough line from one point to
another, but they believe so.
Even with this, you're sayingthat I need a permission slip to
hear the words of a blackperson.

(24:21):
If you say it out loud, yourealize how dumb it sounds.
Black, okay.
What is Distinctive about thisperson voice from that person
voice because they're speaking.
How do you know that they'reblack, like it?
There's no reflection of it atall.
But the thing is a good ideaand the fact that he are Giving
this to children and like you'resending it to parents and

(24:43):
there's no pushback from theparents, like this, is a bad
idea.
Like they're parents signingoff on it.
It speaks to a deeper problemthat's systemic in our society.
Not just this, but again it'sFlorida and talking about Trump,
he's in Mar-a-Lago, so all kindof like leaks together again.
Don't confuse racism withstupidity.

(25:04):
It they're very close cousins,but it ain't that.
This is just dumb.

Jeff (25:12):
Amen.
But I bring up racism because Iwanted to pose the question has
racism played a role, whetherbig or small, and helping
hip-hop grow?
You know, you go back to the90s when David Stern, from an
NBA, wanted to put the dresscode because guys like Island
Iverson you know we're rockingtoo much gold or baggy pants and

(25:32):
the do rags and whatever it was, and you know they were
considered dogs and whatever,the gangsters and whatever.
So he wanted them to be.
You know, more clean-cut andWear a suit while you're sitting
on the bench and whatever.
And you know these.
I'm not, I'm not saying he wasracist, but I'm saying this this
stuff causes a backlash and areaction, and a reaction that

(25:54):
you know makes change ultimately.
So do you.
I think that racism has had anytype of effect in helping
hip-hop grow.

I mean, you know, I think that example of the
dress code is interestingbecause If you watch an NBA game
now, you know you're gonnawatch people walking into the
arena and they're gonna betalking about their fit.
You know, I mean, on socialmedia, every game now, they're

(26:26):
gonna be pictures of people intheir fit, which is kind of
funny to me because back, youknow, in the early 2000s, cats
were rocking throwback jerseysand everything was like really
oversized baggy jeans.
You know, 8x white tees andthat whole era, you know, and
everything was was super baggy.

(26:47):
And that's when.
That's when the dress code wasproposed.
I mean, you know, I likefashion.
So, honestly, I never reallyhad that much of a problem with
the dress code, because you'rebasically trying to say Clean up
your act.
You're on television, we want acertain standard and I think
you know there are jobsthroughout society that have
dress codes.
So I didn't necessarily thinkthat was racist.

(27:10):
It was clearly intended to, youknow, help sort of Get rid of a
certain look, and that look wasdirectly associated with
hip-hop.
But, as I say, if you look at itnow, everybody's trying to rap.
You know, everybody's trying toshow off their fit.
And if you go back to the erabefore that.

(27:31):
I mean, we were talking aboutJordan earlier, but you know, I
remember when Isaiah and Magicand Michael Jordan and Pat Riley
were on the cover of GQmagazine Grand Hill, you know
they were clean, like Back inthat era.
I phrased it with the suitsyeah, clyde, exactly Clyde,
phrasing with that 70s flair,you know, drj, you know with the

(27:54):
fro, I mean.
So you know, the styles changeand the players, I think you
know, represent their era.
But that piece of it in and ofitself, I didn't really have a
issue with Because I understoodwhat he was trying to do and I
think what we see now kind ofaffirms that point, because
everybody now is, you know, pjTucker is, like, you know,

(28:18):
shagilius Alexander, so so manyguys now want to be known for
their fit Kuzma, um.
So it's just kind ofinteresting how that played out.

Jeff (28:29):
Yeah, before I move on from this, I wanted to touch on
this topic.
Me and aunt have this argumentall the time.
He's gonna laugh when Imentioned it.

Anthony (28:37):
I got start this shit.

Jeff (28:40):
Because I wanted to ask you your thoughts on Eminem and,
as he a valued member or just Aguest, somebody like Lord Jamar
would have you Believe go ahead, doctor culture.

Anthony (28:56):
You got it, you got it back yeah and I'm a prefix.

Jeff (28:59):
I'm gonna tell you where this stems from.
Okay, dr Boy, this stems fromevery time I ask somebody of
color To give me their top five.
Never, a hundred percent of thetime.
They never have Eminem in.
So I pose the question to auntwhy is that?
Is it a?
Is it a cultural thing?
Is it?
Is it a black and white thing?

(29:21):
You know what I mean?
I've always felt like hedeserves to be mentioned among
the grace, but from myperspective and from from my,
from what I've seen, from myexperience, black people are
hesitant to mention him and thatand that list.
I Mean.

I can't speak on why People leave him off their
top five list.
If you, you know, if you askpeople to top five, they're
giving you their top five rightand maybe there's a particular
reason why they mentioned somepeople and not others.
But if you only limited it, ifit's, I'm sorry.
If it's limited only to fivepeople, there's gonna be a lot

(30:02):
of people that left that areleft off.
I Mean, you know, I look at itfrom a historical standpoint.
You know, for a long time wehad White artists Appropriate in
black culture and taking creditfor it, and perhaps the big,
the biggest example of thiswould be somebody like Elvis
Presley.

(30:22):
When you get to, hip-hop isdifferent because you know Elvis
and you know his manager, tomParker.
They could appropriate, I think, the cat's names, roy Holliday.
If you go looking him up and ifyou listen to him, you know

(30:43):
it's obvious how Elvis isstraight bit my man style and a
lot of people don't even knowthis cat is.
And Elvis is, you know,considered an icon.
So you could just go and like,really you know, steal the
culture and turn around and makepeople think it was yours.
You could completelyappropriate it and exploit it
and get away with it.
There was nothing to stop himfrom doing that.

(31:03):
But when you get up to the eraof Eminem, I mean, what I think
is always interesting is Eminemwouldn't have a career if it
wasn't for dr Dre he needed.
Dre's cosign like he needed.
You know Dre, he neededsomebody who had credibility in
hip-hop Already to cosign him.

(31:24):
And remember, before Eminemcame out, most people when they
thought about a white rapper,thought about vanilla ice, and
vanilla ice was wack andeverybody Recognized he was wack
.
So Eminem had to prove topeople that he wasn't there just
because he was white, like.
So when you listen to Eminem, Imean the dude can rap, like

(31:48):
clearly he's got skills.
There's no debating that.
I think what happened at thetime know, what I noticed Was a
lot of radio stations thatweren't playing Hip-hop.
All of a sudden they startedplaying Eminem.
Now why weren't you playingthis music before?
But now that you have, you know, eminem, you want to play his
music and I think a lot of otherpeople started saying he's the

(32:13):
greatest rapper ever During thattime.
And I'm like he can rap.
He's not the greatest, he canrap.
It's just like the NBA.
There's been a lot of greatplayers in the NBA.
It's not just one or two,there's been a lot over a long
period of time.
It's been a lot of great MCs,it's not just one or two.
So where somebody places him ontheir list, I think that's

(32:36):
personal To me.
I think Eminem Can rap.
My issue has always been what ishe rapping about?
Like so, chuck, you know ChuckD.
He's been a great rapper.
Like so, chuck, you know ChuckD has his line.
I don't rhyme for the sake ofriddling.
When I hear him what I hearsomebody rhyming for the sake of

(32:59):
riddling, that's cool.
But the MCs that I have alwaysappreciated there was more depth
to it.
Like, eminem is really cleverand, I think, very good at what
he does and he's always beencool.
I feel like a lot of peopleoutside of him have tried to use
him to make points.

(33:20):
He didn't do it, but peoplewere using him in his career,
because he was white, to try andsay things that he himself
wasn't saying.
As an MC.
I think he's cool.
Is he in my top five?
No, is he in my top 10?
No doesn't mean he's not a goodMC, but I just have different
standards when I think about thegreat MCs and certainly he's

(33:42):
had some great records, but I'mjust not willing to say he's the
greatest ever.

Jeff (33:47):
That's fair.
I'm gonna start looking at itdifferently now.

Anthony (33:50):
Oh, it took him to tell you look at a different.
Been telling you for years.

Jeff (33:55):
On his answer.
You just told me like yeah, Idon't fuck with his music.

Anthony (33:58):
It's not okay.
I love him.
Some fathers, it's not Notfucking with his music.
Again, he can rap for a secondrap he's extremely good at it.
But when he does it it annoysme.
Like he's a rap-a-drap duderight like the whole song rap
god.
Like I'm glad that you can rapreally fast and I can kind of
sort of understand you.

(34:18):
But I'm like, yeah, busted cando the same thing.
Great, you're not impressed,I'm he's.
He's like he's a bee ateverything.
He doesn't excel at one thing.
He's just really good atputting words together.
That's great.
Is he gonna be in my top five?
No, I'm sorry to tell you that.
No, but am I gonna say, in asense of Influencing hip-hop,
he'll probably be in that, inthat level, because without

(34:43):
Eminem Drey doesn't break intothose markets.
Without Eminem you're notgetting that halftime Super Bowl
show.
You need that presence for himto finally crack that glass
ceiling.
Like hip-hop has always grownslowly, like you always like.
This quote the, the two popline, the, the growth of roof
and concrete.
As much as they have tried tokill hip-hop by MTV not playing

(35:08):
the videos by saying thatthey're bad influence, that
they're destructive to societyand children, misogynistic lyric
, violence and everything elseat the great.
At this point, 50 years later,it's an influence and pop, art,
music, fashion, culture.
We've Almost been like anoffshoot of culture and now

(35:31):
we've come like completelyingrained inside of it.
You cannot tell, from thispoint forward, the the culture
of this country without it.
We've touched every singlebranch, every tree that falls
from it.
What, what makes things fly,what those fashion designs?
Why they want to mess withhip-hop artists?
Because we carry the culture.

(35:51):
We're the people that peoplewant to watch and see that they
want to look like and act likeand be like.
Before they weren't fuckingwith us like the hope, like like
we're from the East Coast.
Timberland was a constructionboot.
You just walk around in them,heavy-ass boots, right, we made
them popular.
Now they're coming out withdifferent styles and colors and

(36:13):
everything I said cuz we wantedit.
And then those other kids fromyou know those nice super
neighborhoods, they're walkingaround with Timberland, they're
wearing fittings, they're doingthe stuff that we did.
That's why it matters andwithout Eminem, like that part,
we can never quite grasp thataudience.
But once we did rocket shotthrough the roof, because now

(36:35):
we're in places that we're nevergoing to be like Eminem's on
stage with dr Dre at the SuperBowl he's doing you know, you
know MTV, musical worlds andstuff like that.
It's not the fact that he's Hisrapping and anything that I
don't care about that.
I care about the fact that youkind of needed that point to.

(36:55):
It's like an inflection point.
At that point it becomessomething else completely
different, because remember thatDrates record label wasn't
really popping like that.
He needed him to kind of keepgoing.
He leaves that throw.
He wants to try something new.
The firm flops his sub-flop.
It just doesn't work.
He finds his kid finds ineverything skyrockets from there
.
So his rapping ability great.

(37:17):
But what he did in Putting usin rooms that we wouldn't think
it would generally be mad, asmore than me.

Jeff (37:24):
All right.
So before we move on once andfor all, is he hip-hop or is he
just a guest?

I mean, I think he's hip-hop.
I think the thing is, you know,it's sort of like this you know
, if you watch the, if you watchthe, NFL.
Look at the success the NewEngland Patriots have had over
the last what 20 years.
Right before Brady left and nowBella checks gone and I say

(37:55):
this jokingly, but I'm seriouslike the Patriots brought white
football players back in the mix.
Mmm, okay, look at a cat likeJulian Edelman.
You weren't talking about whiteride receivers.
You know, in the 90s, I meanyou know the paper tight ends

(38:15):
the grunt, like you know, alwayswith quarterbacks.
But what I'm saying is, likeyou know, they started a whole
thing.
So now you've got Cooper cupright.
Who did Eminem inspire?
Like, why is there not a wholelong line of white rappers since
Eminem?
I mean, there's a couple,there's a couple, right, but

(38:39):
it's not like a whole communityof white rappers that emerged
after Eminem success.

Jeff (38:46):
I think he's influenced more black rappers than white
rappers.

to be honest, I would agree what I'm saying is,
if Eminem is a singular figure,right, he didn't create a whole
group of like dope white MCsthere's been a few, but his
success is his success.
We could talk about otherrappers and their influence, and

(39:12):
we can draw a straight line toall the people they Influenced
and put in the game, or peoplewho tried to be like them, or
whatever.
Eminem is a white guy in ablack genre, and because of that
, he's gonna automatically getattention, and I think he's very
good at what he does.
Considering, I think, though,in terms of moving the culture,

(39:36):
in terms of inspiring theculture, in terms of changing
the culture, what's differentabout hip-hop if Eminem doesn't
exist?
What changes about hip-hop ifhe doesn't exist?
I mean, I think he's great inthat sense, but you know, at the
end of the day, we'reapplauding this dude because

(39:57):
he's a very, very good rapper.
When they decided to startmaking movies about hip-hop
artists, who was the first catthey made a movie about?
They made eight mile.
Does that mean that Eminem ismore important than big?
Does that mean Eminem is moreimportant than pop just because
he got the first movie madeabout him?
No, that's the fact that welive in white culture and the

(40:21):
gatekeepers Recognize that therewas an audience of people that
they were willing to pitch amovie to About Eminem that you
know big and pop that came later.
They might even think of that.
That's buried in Americanhistory that it just happened
with Eminem.
That's before we got to Eminem.
Why?

(40:42):
Because hip-hop is black, so inthat sense Eminem is the white
guy in black culture.
But when the Larger culturedecided to pay attention, it's
like we know what to do withthis guy.
We know how to make money offof him, we know how to Identify
him and his audience andpreviously that hadn't existed

(41:05):
in hip-hop.
That doesn't mean he's moreimportant than the legends of
hip-hop, the pioneers of hip-hopwho we traditionally celebrate.

Jeff (41:16):
I'm gonna get off this now .
I know that you you've been apart of a lot of different
documentary sports, hip-hopdocumentaries.
I want to ask you what's yourfavorite documentary or film
that you worked on?
Did you work on the Biggiemovie, by the way?

Which one?
No, I did a biggie documentary.
The biggie documentary Allright did a biggie documentary,
but this was back in like2007-2008, so it was a while ago
.
It's called big it bigger thanlife.

Anthony (41:44):
If I'm not mistaken, dr Ford just had the funniest shit
Because I because I always seeyou in documented especially
comes like culture and sportsand race, and I saw it in a Rick
James documentary.
He said how much he hates superfreak and I was like, yeah, me
too, like.

(42:04):
And when he explained he said Icould never quite explain.
I said I hate this song but Idon't know why things like you
know what I was wanting to puton is the one to wipe you with
jam into him like there we go.
There's my answer.
He's right.
All of your games work.
This is the one like oh my god,he makes so many great songs
and someone y'all this.
Is it super freak, this littlebasic ass on of all this talent

(42:25):
of all of music he's made,that's.

Jeff (42:27):
that's the way that's just been sampled.
That's just been sampled a lotin hip-hop though.

That's right.
I mean, you know that's ammo.
Can't touch this and otherexamples too.
Mm-hmm.
I Mean you know I've been in,I've been, I've been a lot of
documentaries of, of all thedocumentaries I've been in, you
know the last dance I keepsaying to people, the last dance

(42:51):
, that's like my superhero movie, you know, because when the
last dance came out it was atthe beginning of, like COVID,
the beginning of the pandemic,and you know everybody saw it
because everybody was prettymuch at the crib and if you
think about it, you know back inthe day people used to watch,

(43:14):
you know, everything at the sametime and the only thing that
really exists like that now isthe Super Bowl.
You know that everybody watchesit at the same time.
We're streaming and everything.
So because of COVID, peoplewere watching the last dance and
you know it was hugely popularand I had the first two episodes

(43:35):
.
I'm in the.
I think the first episode I'm inis the third episode, but the
first episode I have people youknow, I know who are like are
you watching this?
Like of course I'm watching it,and they're like you should be
in this, and I didn't even sayanything.
And then the third episode hitand so you know I'm in LA, I'm

(44:01):
on West Coast time so it airedfirst on the East Coast and I go
to Twitter and you know, mytimeline on Twitter just blown
up but it's not coming off forthree more hours.
You know, in LA and I had kindof forgotten to be honest with
you and I'm like, oh, I must bein this episode because they

(44:22):
didn't tell me before whichepisode I was in and so from
that point forward, the rest ofthe series, what I would do is I
would just go it was Twitter atthe time I would just go to
Twitter and see what people weresaying on Twitter and then I
would watch the actual episodelater on that night.

(44:42):
But you know, last Dance was alot of fun.
I've been in so manydocumentaries.
They start to run together at acertain point, you know one of
the things.
I'll say that again, I'm sorry.
The Wood yeah, I co-wrote andproduced the Wood.
I mean that was back in 99.
So add that to the books andthe documentaries.

(45:04):
You know I did a few thingshere and there, you know.
But the documentaries peopleknow me from the documentaries
because I've been in so many ofthem.
Actually, you know, what I'mkind of focused on now is
adapting the book Rappers Deluxeinto a documentary series,

(45:26):
because I wrote it with that inmind.
I mean, you know documentariesare so popular now and to be
able to tell the story of thebook through a documentary would
be very cool.
So that's something I'm lookinginto now as well.
Gonna start pitching it to somenetworks and stuff like that.
Yeah, I mean, you know I'vebeen having conversations.
You know it's hard out here inHollywood trying to do it and I

(45:50):
wanna do it right and there's acertain way I wanna do it.
You know, because honestly,I've been in all these
documentaries and you know Iappreciate people who reach out
and wanna interview me.
I appreciate that a great deal.
But in some ways I feel like,you know, I remember when Snoop
had the last meal and somebodyasked him what the title meant

(46:14):
and he goes.
You know, people been eatingoff of me, Off of me, you know
that's the last something youeat off of me.
You know this is the last meal Igotta eat off myself, and so
you know I mean much love.
I'm very grateful, but I'vebeen giving people all this
flavor in these documentariesfor all these years.
I gotta do my own thing.
You know it's time for me totransition and I'm gonna still

(46:38):
do documentaries of people whohave me.
But what I'm trying to puttogether with the book and the
documentary series associatedwith that, I'm gonna be much
more prominent.
I'm gonna be much more visible.
I'm gonna be your on-screenhost and guide as opposed to,
you know, one amongst many.
It's gonna be the doctor'sperspective, and so that's what
I'm trying to put together.

(46:58):
And you know, if somebody'slike down with that and they
wanna finance that, then cool.
But you know I'm not trying todo it in a way that you know it
might have been donetraditionally.
I have a whole differentapproach that I've thought out,
that I planned as I was writinga book.
I wrote the book with adocumentary series in mind.

(47:20):
So hopefully, you know, that'llcome to pass and in the process
, you know we seeing what's outthere and seeing what we can do
in terms of, you know, bringingthis to the people, and so
you'll have the book and thenhopefully, you know at some
point you'll have a documentaryseries as well.

Jeff (47:38):
Yeah, I wanna ask you, of all the hats that you wear, you
know, as a writer, as a publicspeaker and educator which is
your favorite of all the hatsthat you wear?

Wow, that's a good question.

Jeff (47:50):
Which one are you most passionate?

about.
I mean, you know, I am somebodywho went to graduate school
because I wanted a PhD, and thereason I wanted a PhD was
because when I was a kid, Iheard how people in the media
talk about Dr J and Dr J didn'thave no PhD.

Jeff (48:13):
He wasn't a good doctor.

But when I was growing up in the 70s, you
didn't necessarily find a blackman being discussed with respect
.
They put a lot of respect on DrJ's name.
So when I was a kid I remembersaying I wanna be Dr B and I
want people to put respect on myname the way they put respect
on his.
And so my idea was you know, dothis PhD thing, become a

(48:38):
professor at a prominentuniversity, and that would be my
base.
And from that base, you know, Icould write the wood, I could
write books, I could appear indocumentaries, I could consult,
I could do all these things.
And so, you know, I don't knowif one is my favorite or another
.
I've been a professor for a longtime.

(48:59):
Obviously, I like to talk, Ilike being interviewed.
You know, I like the freedom Ihave to kinda move through and
connect with and participate inthe culture, not just observe it
but participate in it.
And so, you know, at differenttimes I like different aspects

(49:23):
of it.
I can change those hats withease, you know.
But I'm a creative person.
I think a lot of people, whenthey think about professors,
they have a misunderstanding.
I'm not a teacher.
I've never been a teacher.
I'm a professor.
There's a difference, but Ilike to describe myself and what

(49:44):
I do.
You know I'm a creativeintellectual, that's how I
describe it, and so being ableto write books and do movies and
make documentary appearances tome, you have to have all that
coupled with, you know, being aprofessor and endowed chair at a
major university.
So it's really the combination,you know, of all that.

(50:08):
You know we form like Voltron.
You know what I'm saying.
You bring all those piecestogether and you know the sum
it's Wu Tang reference.
Yeah, yeah for sure.
The sum bigger than its part.
So that's kinda how I approachit.
I guess all those hats are verycomfortable.
At various times I like wearingdifferent hats, but I like

(50:28):
having all those hats availableto me.
You know, that's what's reallyimportant.

Jeff (50:36):
I mean, we know the answer to this question, but it begs
just to ask it Is it safe to saythat hip-hop is your first love
?

In terms of culture.
You mean, yeah, I mean I am hiphop.
I am hip hop, so that's, likeyou know, is loving yourself
like are you your first love?
Yeah, I love me some meat, youknow.
So, yeah, I love hip hop.
You know I love jazz too, butnobody's really into jazz, no

(51:11):
more.
So I got a handful of friends Icould talk to about it, but you
know it's not popular Hip hop.
That's who I am, I mean.
So, yeah, I mean I couldn't dowhat I'm doing without hip hop
and so it's definitely my first,second, third, fourth and fifth

(51:33):
love.
But I love a lot of things.
I love movies, you know whatI'm saying.
I love fashion, I love art.
You know I pay attention topolitics, I mean.
So again, it's like theprevious question To me, hip hop
ties all this together andthat's really honestly what my
book is about is about how allthese different things tied

(51:57):
together are hip hop.
Like we know the music, but youknow it's also sports, it's also
I'm like, I'm really intocontemporary art, Like it's also
art, like you know it's alsofashion, it's all all those
things.
So I guess, if we think abouthip hop in the broadest sense.
I would definitely say that's,that's a love.

Jeff (52:19):
Alright, before we wrap this up, if you don't mind, I
got a couple of fan questionsthat were submitted.
Certainly have one on X akaTwitter.
Shout out to Stiley.
So I got to the barbershopgroup chat Because he said, in
reference to you, he said thathis resume is so dope.
I always loved his NWAcommentary and how this music

(52:41):
was designed to be gritty enoughto make you squirm.
I actually like that quote.
But his question is up there.
He says and thinking kind ofbroad here but how he fell in
love with hip hop and where hesees it could evolve to next and
maybe expand on how black musicevolves so progressively and
transcends in such amazing ways.

Um, you know, I mean, I think when I was in high
school and I heard rappers atLux, it was like it was like
somebody was speaking mylanguage.
You know, like imagine ifyou're in a foreign country and

(53:22):
they don't speak English, andthen all of a sudden, from
across the way you hear somebodyspeak English, that's going to
feel real significant to you.
You know somebody speaks yourlanguage, like I'm not the only
one here speaking this language.
And so when I heard you knowrappers light, you know all that
early hip hop this is what Iwas saying to you earlier.

(53:44):
You know, when I heard DMC islike that.
Everybody I knew in college hadthriller or 1999 or both.
And you know I'm the kind ofdude if everybody else is going
right, I'm gonna go left.
That's just who I am.
So it's like, okay, you in thePrince of Michael, you know.

(54:04):
But then DMC is like you know,it's not Michael Jackson and
this is not thriller.
So that's what I was repping,and I was repping it precisely
because everybody else wasn'trepping it.
That's the era I come from, sofalling in love with hip hop,
you know from the time I firstexperienced it, which is when
the first needle dropped.
You know, but hip hop is to melike a continuation.

(54:28):
I mentioned jazz.
You know all the great.
You know R&B, soul music fromthe 70s, you know bebop jazz
before that, neo soul.
I mean, I like great music.
And if it's great, if it's, youknow something created by

(54:52):
somebody's substantive, then youknow I'll dig it and I'll vibe
on it.
So you know, I've been with hiphop from the very beginning,
from the first time I heard it.
And I think the evolution of hiphop and black music in general
is because, you know, a standardwas set a long time ago.

(55:13):
I mean, duke Ellington, countBasie, louis Armstrong, these
guys were operating at a veryhigh level.
You know Miles Davis tellsstories about.
You know, in his era, you knowin the early days, like they
would have like what we mightnow call open mic nights, and
you know jazz musicians wouldget up and play their instrument
and Miles said, if you got upon the bandstand and you were

(55:36):
bullshitting, you get your asskicked, like literally like
dudes would like take yououtside and whip your ass for
wasting their time.
I mean so you know we've hadthese standards for a very long
time.
And then you get to hip hop.
It's like if you get on the micand you whack, like you might
have to answer for that.
I mean, that's the culture,that's the tradition, and so

(55:58):
anything that has that kind ofcompetitive component and you
know forces people to pushcreativity to the highest level.
The results are often good andI appreciate that and celebrate
it and promote it and writeabout it.
And you know, hopefully we'llcontinue to see things operate

(56:20):
at that level.

Jeff (56:21):
You mentioned Run DMC.
Were you in the building by anychance for the hip hop 50
Yankee Stadium?
Because I was there and theyhad me till two in the morning
waiting for Run DMC to come outbecause they closed the show and
I was there for eight hours.
Was it cool?
It was the best shit.
I told Ann it was the best shitI've ever been to Bruh Brice.

(56:43):
The doors opened up at six andwe was there till two in the
morning but everybody was there.
It was the most diverse shit Ihad ever seen.

I remember seeing all the pictures and everything
videos on social media.
Yeah, look at that, man.

Anthony (56:57):
Look, they were short on YouTube.
I'm not saying up until twoo'clock in the morning for
nobody.
I watched it all right there.
I could rewind it and replay it.
You could buy the ticketshitting Yankee Stadium or you
want, for eight hours.
That's a job shift.
I ain't doing that, I justwatched the replay.
I saw everything you saw fromthe cover of my bedroom, so I'm
glad you enjoyed it.

Jeff (57:16):
But good for you.
And one last fan question Shoutout to Shakir.
For some reason I'm going backto this white rapper
conversation.
He wants to know in youropinion, is Action Bronson
better than Eminem?

I think Action Bronson is more of a character
than a rapper.
The chef, yeah, I mean he's acool character.
I mean, you know, I even give acat like Jack Harlow some props
, but I mean in terms of rhyming, I don't think any of them
dudes can touch Eminem In termsof rhyming.

(57:52):
No, so I'd go with.
Eminem on that.

Jeff (57:56):
All right, and this is the grand finale.
We always ask all our gueststhis oh, you always ask this.
Why ask this there you go andsince you're a hip hop and
sports connoisseur, we're goingto do it two parts your top five
.
We're going to start with yourtop five basketball players.

Now we saying my, are we saying my top, my
favorite players or the best ofall time?

Jeff (58:22):
Yours, yours, in your opinion, the top five best
players all around, best playersof all time that are alive.

Okay, order, and you want them in order, or you
just want?

Jeff (58:31):
five.
I mean if you can put them inorder, but if not, then just
five.

Okay, I would say this is in no particular order.
You could rank them.
You could rank them how youchoose.
But what I often say whenpeople ask me this about
basketball is you know,different players played in
different areas under differentcircumstances, so it's really
hard to compare different rulesto different rules.
Yeah, that's what I mean when Isay different circumstances.

(59:00):
I mean you know, contemporaryplayers don't have to worry
about being in a hotel and goingto get something to eat and
they say we don't serve blackpeople.
You got a fact that at the endalso a lot of the whole G's and
to deal with that, you know theyhad second jobs.
Yeah, yeah, I mean exactly.
So I would say, as I say, thisis not in order, but top five I

(59:23):
would say Mike, bill, russell,kareem, will.
Was that four?
And magic?
No, lebron, wow.

(59:44):
Now let me, let me, let me put a, let me put a asterisk by
LeBron.
The only reason I won't sayLeBron now is he's still playing
Now.
By the time he gets throughplaying, if you ask me that same
question, then he'll be on thelist, which means I'm going to

(01:00:06):
have to drop somebody, but I'mnot.
The only reason I'm not sayingLeBron now is we don't know how
much more LeBron is going toaccomplish before he's done.
Right, none of us expectedLeBron to be the leading score
while he's still playing,because LeBron never had the
reputation as a score, right, Imean, and now he's the leading

(01:00:27):
score in history and he's stillplaying.
So, no, this the LeBron is justthat while he's still playing,
I'm going to put him in reserve.
But if we had the sameconversation, once he retires,
he will automatically be on thelist, which means I'm going to
have to drop somebody, and theperson I'm going to drop is

(01:00:47):
going to be will or magic, butfor now, that's who.
I'll go with those five.

Jeff (01:00:55):
And finally, your top five MCs of all time.

Dr. Todd Boyd (01:00:59):
Okay, so I have what I call.
I call it the Godhead.
Big J and Nas.
That's the Godhead to me.
Those three, the next two, Iwould say ice cube and Chuck D,

(01:01:19):
and if you gave me a bonus, Ithrow in cats like Scarface and
Big Daddy came.
Is ice cube a West Coast biasthing?
No, I mean, if you want to talkabout like conscious, like
serious, like political hip hopback in the day, I mean ice cube
had bars man and it wassubstantive and the thing ice

(01:01:41):
cube was saying, you know just,was deep and with the exception
of Chuck D, nobody else wasreally coming with that
political depth the way ice cubewas.
So that's why you know we're upice cube.
I mean, if we're talking aboutstyle, like I got to get Snoop
props, the thing is is just somany, so many great rappers like

(01:02:02):
you know, when, ever, when youdo that, you're going to leave
people off.
You know who are cool.
But big J and Nas, that's,that's, those are my like top
three dudes Again had a monsterright there.
Yeah, order that as you choose.
And then give me Scarface andKane and Chuck D and cube and I

(01:02:23):
mean I like J Cole and Drake alot Now.
I like woo Back in the day.
I like brand new being.
You know.
I mean, it's been so many greatMCs that it feels almost like
you slighting somebody when youcome up with a list, because
inevitably you leave somebodyoff and people think you don't
like them.
It's not that it's just there'sonly enough room on the list

(01:02:46):
for so many people, but thoseare some of the names that have
always meant a whole lot to meand whose music I still listen
to to this day.

Anthony (01:02:56):
Yeah, it just becomes like basketball.
You have your list, but thenyou got to kind of break it down
, like who are the best shootersof all time, who are the best
dunkers of all time, who's themost creative, who got the best
handle?
Like hip hop the same way.
Like you got certain guys atthe top, but there's certain
people who do certain things inan extreme way, like Cary
Irvin's not going to beanybody's top 100, but a

(01:03:17):
ballhandler he might be one ortwo.
It's kind of how you look at it.
Just hip hop the same way, listof lists, but just sometimes
you got to categorize and makesure it makes sense to what
you're talking about.

I think the thing about both ball and hip hop is
that you know there's just beenso many people who are great at
what they do, that I agree withyou.
I mean, you know you talk aboutball handlers.
Like I always say to people,check out Marcus Haynes and I
say that and I get a strangelook.
I'm like Marcus Haynes, whoplayed for the Harlem Globe

(01:03:47):
Trotters, and we just talkingabout ball handling Marcus
Haynes to me that's the greatestball handler ever.
And when people talk about ballhandlers, they never mentioned
Marcus Haynes, right.
But I look at Cary, I mean youknow he's real, real nice with
it.
I mean I'm from Detroit, so youknow I got to give a big shout
out to Isaiah, you know, as aball handler, like, come on, man

(01:04:10):
, you know.
And then you know I'm bad boys,you know, my God, Joe D Isaiah,
I mean those were just greatteams.
Rodman, young Rodman, before hestarted like that crazy.
I got you, you know, I mean.
So again, the reason I feel likewe love the NBA and the reason
we love hip hop is because it'snot like there's just one or two

(01:04:33):
guys.
There's so many guys who'vebeen, some have been great at a
lot of things Some have beengreat at.
You know, maybe one thingspecifically.
So you know I agree with youLike, are we talking greatest
shooters?
Are we talking greatestrebounders, greatest defenders?
Are we talking most skilled?
I mean, you look at these dudesnow they can do five or six

(01:04:55):
different things.
Back in the day you wereexpected to do one thing.
You know, I think about a catlike Bernard King.
I mean, I've seen so many greatballers, like, throughout the
course of my life, dr J, who Ifeel like people forget about
today how great Dr J was.
The game, both in hip hop andbasketball, has had a lot of you

(01:05:17):
know, great individuals, and soit's hard to put it on a list
because inevitably you end upleaving somebody off and that's
unfortunate.
But that's why I like talkingabout the magnitude, the whole
of it, because you want to giveall these guys their props, who
deserve it.

Jeff (01:05:36):
Dr Boyd.
Thank you for coming on, man,we appreciate you.
We're privileged to have you onthe show.
Tell the people where they canfind you and follow you where
they can get your book.

Hey, you know Dr Todd Boyd.
I'm always hanging around onthe Gram, so you know you can
find me on Instagram.
You know the book RappersDeluxe.
You know.
You need that in your life.
I'm telling you, cop, that ifyou want to go to FightOn the
publisher, fightoncom, she's theone.
You want to go to Amazon youwant to go to, you know, barnes
and Nobles.

(01:06:10):
You know, I think they got us upin Urban Outfitters, like you
know, we're everywhere with this, we global with it.
You know, and you know, watchout.
You know when you're checkingfor the documentaries.
You never know where I mightpop up.
You never know where you mightsee me.
So just keep your eyes open andappreciate, you know, the
opportunity to be on the showand chop it up with you guys and

(01:06:34):
everybody listening.
You know, appreciate the love.
You know the shout outs.
I see people in the airportshouting me out.
Like you know, I love it, Iappreciate all of it and I'm
just out here trying to rep thisculture and promote this book
and, you know, try to do it at ahigh level.
That's always been my thing.
So you know, as I say,appreciate you and thanks for

(01:06:56):
this opportunity.

Jeff (01:06:58):
Thank you, Dr Boyd.
Thank you for tuning in.
Shout out to the culture crew.
Till next time.

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