October 22, 2025 • 51 mins
The Open Crate is a digital art platform launched by Amina Debbiche, a Tunisian art specialist and Nora Mansour, originally from Lebanon who previously worked with leading art and design entities like Art Basel and Carpenter’s Workshop Gallery.
In this episode the two co-founders share how The Open Crate grew from a printed catalog into a private, global platform that secures provenance, organizes collections, and opens access to context, education and insight on the art market in the MENASA region without compromising privacy. We explore themes of trust and resistance, the importance of heritage preservation through documentation, motherhood and entrepreneurship, fashion’s overlap with art, and The Open Crate's roadmap to future-proof archives.
A few topics covered in this episode are:
• Founder backgrounds from finance to cataloging
• Why Dubai and the region needed digital structure
• Turning point with a major Iranian collector Mohamed Afkhami
• Privacy, trust, and resistance to online archives
• Traits that win clients and sustain growth
• Complementary roles and building while parenting
• Art, fashion, design, and lifestyle as one ecosystem
• Vision for Open Crate Lab and AI provenance
• Training the next generation of art specialists
• Routines that protect focus, energy, and creativity
If you'd like to learn more follow The Open Crate on Instagram and as always, if you enjoyed this conversation, please share it, leave a review, and stay tuned for more curated voices from across art, fashion, and culture on The Curation Podcast hosted by Nour Hassan.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:05):
Welcome back to the Curation Podcast.
I'm your host, Noor Hassan, andtoday we're diving into a
conversation at the intersectionof art, technology, and cultural
heritage.
I'm joined by two inspiring Arabwomen, Amina Debish and Nora
Monsour, co-founders of theOpenCrate.
Together they've built a digitalart platform that's redefining
(00:26):
how we preserve and managecollections, from art and design
to luxury objects.
Their mission is not only aboutcataloging, but about protecting
cultural heritage, personal,regional, and collective.
Their clients include some ofthe most important collectors
and cultural voices in theregion.
And they've recently beenfeatured in Vogue Arabia,
(00:47):
Harper's Bizarre Interiors, andArab News.
Beyond their professional work,they bring a fresh perspective
on lifestyle, travel, andfashion that makes them true
cultural curators.
I can't wait for you to hearthis conversation about
digitizing culture, preservingheritage, and living creatively.
And now to my conversation withAmina and Nora, the co-founders
(01:10):
of The Open Crate.
Right now I'm speaking with NoraMansour and Amina De Vish of the
Open Crate.
And I'm really looking forwardto this conversation because not
only is it one of your firstpodcasts, potentially your first
(01:31):
podcast, but also the concept ofthe open crate, I haven't
received a press release likethis in a while.
That has made me really feellike I'm super interested to
kind of learn more andunderstand how it is that you
put this project together.
So I think the best way to startwould be for you each to
(01:51):
introduce yourselves to theaudience briefly, and we'll talk
more about the open crate.
SPEAKER_02 (01:59):
So hi everyone.
And thank you for the amazing uhfeedback about the open crate.
Uh, we've been we we launchedthe open crate six years ago.
Uh I'm Emina de Bisch, I'mTunisian, born and raised, and
(02:20):
I've been living in Dubai nowfor the past 10 years.
And this city kind of likeplanted the seed inside of me to
to even like consider being anentrepreneur.
And this is how the OpenCratekind of was born by my meeting
with Nora.
SPEAKER_00 (02:37):
So hi everyone, I'm uh Nora Monsour.
Thank you, Nora, for having ustoday.
It's really a great new uhexperience to have our first
broadcast and to have it withyou.
So I'm a Lebanese, um born andraised, and I've been living in
the UAE for also over 10 yearsnow.
Uh started the company withAmina seven years ago, uh, with
(03:01):
all its uh challenges andbeautiful things, and we'll tell
you more about it now.
I'll let Amina tell you herstory and then I'll share mine.
SPEAKER_02 (03:08):
Yeah.
So you can tell it's our firstpodcast, right?
We're very like, hey, no guys,you guys are natural.
We'll get into the flow, we'llget into the flow.
So as I said, Nora and I met inDubai, and I guess like at some
point, you know, throughout ourcareers, my career, I've been
building like my art career forthe past 14 years.
Like I started in after studyingbanking and finance in Paris, I
(03:32):
uh quickly understood thatwasn't for me.
I loved the the whole kind oflike logical, systemic, like um
um uh repetitive aspect ofmathematics, but I knew that
finance wasn't my calling.
And when I moved to London, Iconsidered having another master
in modern contemporary art.
(03:53):
I did it at Christie'seducation, where I totally fell
in love with the process ofcataloging an artwork, an
object, any object actually.
And I loved again the repetitionof it, how precise it's super
surgical the way you catalog anartwork.
And there's like very kind oflike specific steps to follow,
how to do an artwork.
(04:13):
And I was like, oh wow, I loveit.
And and I got very lucky.
I got um to work at Christie'sin the post-round contemporary
department in London.
Uh, and when it was reallystarting to like, you know,
overtake the Impressionismdepartment, like everybody was
talking about Jean-MichelBasquiat, Anish Kapoor, uh
Anthony Gormley, uh, DiamondHearst, like all those names
(04:35):
starting to get like gain somuch momentum.
Um, and I guess like after a fewyears, after actually, no, left
Tunisia when I was 17, very uhEuropean centered, like very
kind of like I want to live inthe West, I want to learn from
the West.
SPEAKER_01 (04:51):
Yes, yes, yes.
Interesting.
And but like, how come?
How did you kind of curiosity?
SPEAKER_02 (04:57):
We're like we're like a post-colonial kind of
country where French is verypresent.
We all go to French school,American schools, and we grew up
with a sense of like everythingeverything is better in the
West, you know, versus like, ohyeah, Tunisia has so much to
offer.
I was very kind of like, no, I'mgonna live in Paris, London, New
(05:20):
York.
This is where I'm gonna live,this is how I'm gonna build my
expertise, and and that's whatcounts.
And at some point, I wasactually at a dinner uh at the
Tate Modern.
I was working at Christie's, andit was a gorgeous retrospective
of Gerard Richter, uh, one ofthe most incredible artists of
our time.
And I was sitting next to um avery important collector from
(05:42):
New York, and he started askingme questions about Arab artists,
and my knowledge on Western artwas kind of on point.
But when it came to Arab art, Iwas clueless.
And he looked at me in a verykind of like, you know, loving
way, telling me, like, listen,your name is Emina, you're from
Tunisia.
It's kind of expected from youto know all of those artists.
(06:03):
And he kind of like interestingseeds in November.
And fast forward like the nextyear, August, I was like, you
know what, I think I'm gonnamove to Dubai.
This is the um the epicenter ofof the art market right now.
Um, I owe it to myself to tokind of learn and understand who
I am through the gaze of arthistory and and let me see how
(06:26):
how diverse and rich this is.
So after you know moving toDubai, I joined Art Dubai in the
in the uh VIP uh department.
I mean, it sounds very, youknow, like VIP sounds very
sophisticated and maybe a bitspecial, but actually like it's
extremely, extremely like richbecause as a VIP department uh
(06:47):
manager, I get to like talk tocollectors from uh the MINASA
peninsula, like from uh, youknow, collectors from Iran,
Lebanon, Iraq, um uh even SouthAsia.
Uh, and I got to discoverincredibly sophisticated
collections.
And at some point I was like,you know, I had a frustration
(07:08):
between like how opaque andfragmented the art world was at
that time, and especially forcollectors in the Middle East,
like I was like, okay, they havethis, those incredible
collections who kind of hold anational importance because you
know there wasn't a lot ofmuseums back in the days.
Today, museums like it's the oneword that everybody's using,
(07:28):
whether it's Saudi, like Qatar,or Egypt, even like, but when I
moved in Dubai 10 years ago, itwasn't like at the forefront of
every kind of like, you know,yes, yes.
So I was like, okay, let uscreate something that uh kind of
uh merges rigor and elegance anda platform that brings
(07:49):
transparency, like digitalinfrastructure, uh, but also a
curatorial eye for privatecollectors.
Um, I wanted to um havestructure, uh, discretion and
trust through a tool that iskind of like avant-garde, you
know.
I wanted collectors to be ableto have their collection inside
their pocket with all theinformation related to every
(08:11):
single artwork in one clickthrough a very private app,
which is the Open Crates.
So yeah, at some point I waslike, uh yeah, it became a
bridge between art andtechnology, but we kept a very
human core at it with adedicated manager.
SPEAKER_01 (08:29):
Yeah, and I think it's interesting because you
came at a time where, like yousaid, there was not enough
information and there were notyet established institutions.
And so kind of digitizing itimmediately, was this your first
instinct?
You never thought of creating,for example, I don't know, a
space, a physical space, or anyother way of going about kind of
(08:54):
archiving and documenting thesecollections.
Because I think it's very smartthat you, like you said, it's
avant-garde.
You took three steps ahead andyou were like, let's just go for
the digital and make it so thatit is accessible to the
collectors.
And how did that thinking comeabout?
SPEAKER_00 (09:11):
I'll I'll get to that because that's a very good
question.
Because we didn't really startoff thinking digital.
So my background is not as um, Istarted more in finance.
So my uh choice to start theOpen Create with Amina is like
both linked to a story offriendship, but then a deep
desire to pursue a path in inthe art industry.
(09:33):
Because I was more in thefinancial world, so I joined
Pricewaterhouse Coopers as aconsultant, and then I continued
my career into a merger andacquisition position with the
Bin Laden group here in Dubai.
But these experiences kind ofreally helped solidify my
knowledge in business.
And despite, you know, havinglike doing well in the financial
(09:55):
world, I realized that somethingwas missing.
You know, I was one I was veryhungry for something different.
And I remember I went to uhvisit my aunt Rola Wesney in
Paris.
And at the time she was workingwith Carpenter's Workshop
Gallery, which is uh one of themost important design galleries
in the world.
And this is when I realized,yeah, I needed like a change,
(10:18):
you know, like a twist in in mycareer.
And I remember when I visitedthis space, uh every single
piece, I was attracted to everysingle piece.
I wanted to know more about theartist, about the story, about
the medium, just discover more.
Like I had a lot of questions,and this is when I'm like, okay,
I really need to dwell into thisworld.
(10:39):
And I remember there was thisone work uh by Andrea Bronzi,
which is an architect and anartist, um, an Italian architect
and artist.
And uh so he had this workthat's like uh made up out of
steel with like this real trunk,uh tree trunk intersected
(10:59):
intertwined intersected in it,which I found very interesting
how he managed to kind of dwellthe manufacturer world with like
more nature, and that was thestart.
And I got lucky to find a job atCarpenter's Workshop Gallery in
London, and I got to travel withthem, and I think this was
extremely important to kind ofopen my eyes because I get to do
(11:19):
art first in Dubai and Londonand Paris and Art Basel.
And this is when we really likediscover, you know, all of these
artists, and then when I cameback to Dubai and I saw and
discovered how many incrediblecollections there were, and I
was approached by this collectorto document his collection and
(11:40):
to kind of catalogue, and he'sbeen trying to do that more for
the past three years, and hehadn't managed anyone because he
didn't have find the rightperson who had the expertise for
it.
So when we we started working onthat, when I started working on
that, and I kind of shared thatwith Amina, Amina's like, it's
so important to kind ofdocument, and this was a massive
(12:03):
collection that had very or verylittle documentation.
And we started off as doing itthrough a book.
So it wasn't like a digital, uh,there wasn't a digital imprint
yet.
And when we started doing thebook and cataloging everything,
archiving the information,making sure the artist named the
provenance, the passport of thework, the history, the artist
(12:25):
bios.
Um after we after finishing thatproject, we realized that you
know he was buying more.
There are things that weremoving around.
You can't keep track byprinting, and of course, you
don't want to print books, youknow, like right, yeah, yeah.
So this is when the idea ofgoing digital kind of um came.
(12:46):
And and we're like, okay, weneed to really build a platform
that allows people to documentand you know, have access to the
information that's at the coreof their collection.
But not only that, when you youuse the digital platform, you
also have so manyfunctionalities and tools.
So you kind of make smarterdecisions and you kind of can
(13:07):
take it to the next level.
And yeah, here we are like sevenyears later, really trying to
preserve, you know, this all ofthis this art and all of these
this information and to protectit for the future.
SPEAKER_01 (13:22):
I think it's interesting.
Both of you are doing the workessentially of you know heritage
preservation through a digitalplatform.
And I'd love for you to share anexample of a collector or a
project or a specific collectionwhere you felt like it really
was kind of a turning point forthe open crate and a turning
(13:44):
point for both of your careersbecause it's interesting you
both have sort of financialbackgrounds and did not
essentially come from the artworld, but you entered into the
art world and took yourbackground and sort of built
this, you know, platform thatnow acts as not only as Arab
heritage preservation, but alsokind of a documentation and
(14:06):
archival space.
So, what was kind of acollection or a particular
moment where you felt like thiswork is very important and it's
also being very well received?
SPEAKER_02 (14:16):
I have to say that every single collector we come
across, we're like, wow, that'sso important what we're doing,
because like we keep ondiscovering new artists, new
masterpieces, artworks that werelike made in the 30s by art
activists, by women like by likeInje Flatun, who painted in in
jail, or who's a poet, anactivist, a philosopher, a
(14:38):
writer.
Like, like there's so much tosay about those artists, and
just the fact that we get toaccess like a specific word they
did, specific work they did inthe 30s or the 40s with a text
attached to it that describes amoment in life, maybe a
historical moment in our regionor in our country, or even in
the evolution of feminism in the20s in Egypt.
(15:02):
Like every for me, archiving, ifyou are like I'm obsessed with
making sure that data isprotected for the future, like
anything you archive, where likeuh and and so fascinating to
document how we we live rightnow, like the glass that I'm
using, the phone that I'm using,the laptop.
I have we have a client thatalso collects Apple uh items,
(15:25):
you know, from the iPod to thefirst laptop to now like you
know, iPhone 17.
So um to respond to that, likefor me, every single collection
feels so special.
But the turning point, and he'sone of the first uh clients who
really trusted us with theOpenCrate.
You know, we were just two youngwomen in our late 20s, um,
(15:48):
creating a brand out of nowhere,accessing, asking people to let
us access the most intimateemotional item in their life,
which is like collecting art,you know, getting house, opening
uh their rooms and seeing whatthey have on their wall.
And I always say to our clients,like, it's incredible how much I
get to I get to know you betteronce I get to see your
(16:10):
collection because there is onlyso much you can say with words,
there is only so much you cansay with how you dress or like
your job, or but the collectiongets me accessing something
almost subconscious about you,which I love because it tells a
story about every step of yourlife.
Um, and uh the collector thatreally, really trusted us, and I
remember I love saying that thatbecause I'm so in awe with my
(16:34):
business partner Nora, becauseyou know, she's not only an
entrepreneur, she's a mom of twokids, she's a wife, she's an
incredible woman.
And when we created thatcompany, I remember she was
pregnant with her first kid, andit was like uh a huge collection
of 800 works of almost 200artists.
This collector, Mohamed EvKhami, has exhibited his
(16:54):
collection in New York, inCanada, in um uh Dubai, in Abu
Dhabi.
And um, we can't he kind oftrusted us with one of the most
important Iranian collections inthe world that it and that
shows, you know, how the theresponsibility of private
collectors in the public sphere,because through this collection,
(17:14):
he's showing and telling such adifferent narrative about Iran.
Um, so me and Nora, who knewlike, come on, like top 10
artists in Iran, maybe, but westarted knowing like literally
from like the little guy thatsells his works for like$200 to
the most important.
And like we we we went throughmodern art and also very, very
(17:35):
uh ancient object of the Safavidera, or and it was just like
such an incredible journeybecause we started with
inventory, and and you know, youget to know that person uh
because you you get to sit downwith them a lot, and then you
know, once they understand whatthey have with Mohammed Ev
Khami, we were like, okay, let'screate a catalog that you can
(17:56):
like um gift to your guests whenthey come to your house so they
can go back home with a story totell.
And whenever they want to knowabout the artists that they saw
in your house, they can read thebook.
And then we're like, okay, butlet's let's create a virtual
museum because maybe a studentthat is studying Islamic art in
Stanford University wants toknow about more about Iran, and
(18:16):
maybe he can like so we when wethought about virtual museum, we
thought about content, wethought about it like a podcast.
We were like, okay, what can wedo to we will never replace the
physical interaction with anartwork?
This is virtually impossible.
So we were like, what is digitaluh uh filling as a gap?
It's content.
(18:37):
We can create content, so everysingle artwork has a story.
You can also distort an artwork,you can make like a carpet, like
a plane made of a carpet that issuper tiny, gigantic, and flying
around the structure.
You can actually hire a realarchitect that is uh uh he
actually won the Agakan uhmuseum uh prize.
(18:58):
Um and he he's the one I forgothis name to, but he's the one
who who uh created thestructure.
He hired a proper curator, uh uhFereshteh Daf Fereshteh, who uh
is um an incredible creator ofIranian art.
So, you know, like it's justlike this adventure that keeps
on growing.
Then he published a book withFiden.
Now we're working on launchinghis online archive of every
(19:21):
single artwork he's evercollected.
So this for me, and I I talkwith it with a lot of passion
because you know, it gets onesuper important collector to
trust two young girls, and thisis what he did, and I'm so
grateful for that.
And this is for me like aturning point.
And I remember Nora likedocumenting, you know, with her
beggie like eight months, andand she was like, entering that.
SPEAKER_01 (19:45):
I was like, no, she's like, you know, honestly,
that's an incredible, incrediblelike anecdote as to how much it
takes just one person to reallytrust vision.
And then from there, I don'tthink that there's any going
back.
You know, you move forward atthat point.
And it's like you said, it iskind of an educational tool at
(20:09):
the end of the day.
I love that you mentionedstudents and the idea that now
essentially the youngergeneration is learning much
differently than we did.
They need these digitized,accessible tools as they will
listen to a podcast like thisand understand better how two,
for example, young Arab womenbuilt a platform like the Open
(20:30):
Crate.
But I'd love to touch on thatsince you mentioned it, Amina,
which is how were you receivedin the art world at first?
What challenges did you face as,again, two young Arab women and
you had a vision, it wasdifferent.
And how was there any pushback?
Was there were there manysupporters?
(20:50):
Can you tell us a bit more foryou and Nora?
And of course, I want Nora totouch on the aspect of being a
mother as well at the time,becoming a mother.
SPEAKER_02 (21:02):
Well, I'll start with the pushback and I'll let
Nora continue on that.
But oh, the adventures we had,me and Nora.
Like, honestly, take so muchlike a leap of faith, and it's
so good that we didn't know whatwas gonna come after because we
maybe you wouldn't have done it.
We were just like, Yeah, we'regonna create a digital archive
for collectors, and we're like,okay, but we don't have a
(21:22):
background in tech.
And how is it done?
And and you know, the art marketis so resistant to any kind of
like technological innovation,you know.
It's it's it's one of the mostopaque and fragmented market for
that reason, because there'slike such a resistance uh
because it's a resistance, Ibelieve, to innovation in
general.
SPEAKER_01 (21:41):
I mean, I remember when there was the the first
like digital section at ArtDubai a couple of years ago, and
it was like a whole frenzy.
And I mean, I just think thatthat's really interesting, and
and not just that, it's kind ofuh uh it's a difficult market to
access in general to understand.
SPEAKER_02 (21:58):
So yeah, and it's like there's like they do three
steps ahead and then they goback two steps.
Like, look at Christie's, theyjust shut down their digital
department, which they know withthe NFTs and post-COVID, etc.
But I would say that for me andNora, uh, the resistance was
mostly don't forget we're MiddleEastern, we are talking to a
(22:19):
certain culture.
People are very private abouttheir homes, they're very
humble.
It's not kind of culture.
And what when they collect, tobe honest, like it's not like in
the US or in in Europe where youhave like you know a lot of like
uh defiscalization andincentives, it's really like
they started to buy art out oflove.
And so when the the resistancewas more like uh first to enter
(22:44):
their house and their theiruniverse, but it it it kind of
like eased up when we wererecommended from you know words
of mouth and and building trust,and they saw that we're so
super, super private andconfidential.
And I guess as well, it's likeonline.
Oh my god, online means it'smeans it's public, everybody's
gonna know what I have, etc.
Interesting.
I think COVID really helped intolike just jumping 10 years ahead
(23:07):
in the sense that peopleunderstood that you can't in in
2025, and even back in the daysin 2021, like you can live in a
world where you live throughpapers and Excel sheets and and
a few pictures on your on youron your phone and a couple of
invoice on an email.
Like you can't treat this assetin such a non-important way.
(23:31):
Like it's a very importantasset, it tells a story, it
holds value, it holds a feeling,it's an and it's it's an
investment, and it has been onesince the middle of the middle
age, actually.
Like, um, so it's it's it's asuper old investment asset.
And yeah, the resistance wasthat's the two ones that would
come up to mind.
I don't know, Nora, what youthink?
SPEAKER_00 (23:51):
So, yeah, yeah, exactly.
So this was particularly likethe idea, especially when we,
you know, we're talking topeople from the from the region,
like having things online wasmaybe a bit of the privacy, a
bit of the confidentiality, abit of heavy things in public
was the major uh pushback.
And they didn't reallyunderstand the whole thing.
(24:13):
Like it's a very new concept.
So what Amina and I built isextremely niche.
And till today, whenever weshare, I share, like we share
what we what we've created, alot of people were like, oh, how
did you come up with thatconcept that's extremely that's
extremely niche and smart anduseful, but people didn't think
about it and didn't see thepurpose of it.
(24:35):
So when we'd go and we'd belike, we want to document your
collection, we want to do thecataloging, we want to make sure
that you have an intellectualproperty over what is it that
you own, you want to haveaccountability over your
collection.
Like Amina said, it's an asset.
So at the beginning, thepushback was mainly to have it
online, but then as soon as thatbarrier kind of cut, and of
(24:57):
course, COVID was a major playerbecause people got more
comfortable to, you know,started looking at art first
through, you know, uh through uhdifferent um digital solutions,
uh, having more Zoom calls,receiving, you know, a lot of
the art through PDFs.
That kind of helped break thatbarrier.
And it was it's interestingbecause one client that stood
(25:19):
out, so she like understood theconcept of cataloging and she
really wanted, so we did likeinventory books for her, and she
she understood how important isit it was, but then the online
she kind of got stuck on that onthat aspect.
And now, five years later, westill work with her, and she
reached out to me this summerand she's like, Nora, I'm ready
(25:41):
to go digital.
And I'm like, Oh, that'samazing, but what was the
switch?
And then she's realized, she'slike, you know, the more I the
more like we know we keep doingadventure, and the more to kind
of keep track of everythingbecame more challenging for her.
And seeing the all the benefitsof having all of that accessible
(26:02):
to you in your pocket through anapp with all of the
functionalities finally kind ofkicked in.
And it was a major for me, amajor point where I feel like
okay, we've converted a very,very like resistant client into
uh into becoming a TOC member onthe platform.
SPEAKER_01 (26:22):
That's interesting.
And I guess at that point youfeel like, okay, so I mean,
essentially archiving in papers,etc., like you guys just said,
it's kind of very ephemeral.
It it does run the risk in thisday and age of kind of you know
wasting all of that work becausethere's no way to guarantee that
(26:43):
it remains intact.
But I mean, I want to understandfrom the perspectives that you
have as Middle Eastern women, Ifeel you brought something
different to the kind of theworld of archiving art, the
world of digitizing art.
You had your own perspectivefrom growing up um, you know, in
(27:04):
Tunisia or Lebanon, travelingthe world and coming back.
What have been the mostimportant, like you would say,
character traits that you guyshave that have made clients
trust you, that have made thembelieve that it's it's really
the open crate is the platformto you know sacredly hold their
collection?
(27:25):
Because I think my audience isalways very interested in like
you as individuals, like whatare the traits that make you
different in in this particularfield?
SPEAKER_02 (27:34):
I think first and foremost, like honestly, um,
it's integrity and and you know,it really came from an urge, uh
like a profound, genuine urgebetween me and Nora to do
something good for our region.
Like it wasn't like, okay, letme of course, of course, we want
to make money.
(27:54):
Of course, we're gonna be likewe're profitable and we're super
proud of it.
And we're like two entrepreneursthat built a successful company,
but we are extremely genuine inour approach, authentic.
And I think it's super importantin that in that region.
We know that it can be just likeI'm trying to sell you a
product.
No, like I'm I'm talking to acollector who understands this
(28:17):
emotional object and wants towork with people who are loyal,
intelligent, and who haveintegrity.
And I think the fact that we'rewomen, we approach leadership
with through empathy and depth.
Um, and again, like growing upin Tunisia, you know, you always
have to negotiate betweenheritage and modernity all your
(28:37):
life.
Uh it's the it's a duality thatshows it's it's it's that
duality that shows how we buildbridges across culture and and
and we bring sensitivity,nuance, uh, but also some sort
of a boldness to to redefine howthe region is perceived.
Like, you know, uh now thatDubai, you know, Dubai is
(28:59):
everybody knows Dubai now.
Dubai chocolate, Dubai this,Dubai that, everybody moves to
is moving to Dubai.
But I still struggle with howthey think the world perceives
us.
So I love to kind of like breakuh the the mold of how they
think, but how is it to be awoman and live in Dubai or like
how is it to be an entrepreneur?
I'm like, I've never felt morerespected and more empowered
(29:20):
than when I actually moved backto my region.
Uh and we're not talkingrepresentative, we really are
architects of its next chapter.
Like they um we wanted to dosomething for the Arab world in
order for the Arab world to bepart of the dialogue, you know?
And when we say we document, westarted, don't forget, okay, we
started with the Middle East, westarted with Dubai.
(29:41):
Nora brought an incredibleroster of clients from Lebanon
because it's really embedded inLebanese culture to collect.
I love that.
It's such a creative like cityand and country.
And but we started with theMiddle East, uh, but not all
Middle Eastern collector byMiddle Eastern art, like that's
a cliche.
Some Middle Eastern clients haveone of the most incredible
(30:03):
Western collections in theworld.
Like they could compete with thebiggest museums here or in the
West.
SPEAKER_01 (30:08):
Yes, I think that's actually a really, really
interesting point because Ithink that's a misconception.
People do think that MiddleEastern collectors collect
exclusively Middle Eastern art.
I don't know where that camefrom.
But I think it's it's so coolthat you're both from different
also parts of the Middle East.
So you're Tunisian, Amina, andyou're Lebanese Nora, and you're
both in Dubai now, you know.
And I just want to know whathave what have kind of like
(30:32):
what's the dynamic in in inbetween both of you?
Like, what do you think yourstrengths are versus Amina's
strengths are versus Nora's atthe open crate?
Because I feel like yourpersonalities are so different,
but they complement each otherperfectly.
SPEAKER_00 (30:47):
Yeah, that's very true.
So I think one of the reasonsthis the company and Amina and I
worked is that we'recomplementary.
So we both are very passionateabout the business.
And like to go back to that ideaof when we talk to clients, they
can see how much we care and howlike trustworthy we are.
And that comes out from both ofus.
(31:09):
But I think each one brings adifferent side.
So for example, I have a verybusiness kind of man, like a
business-oriented kind ofapproach to things.
Like, you know, I always think,you know, about I take care of
the financial aspects of thecompany, the legislations and
you know, the licenses and andhow everything needs to work.
(31:32):
And you know, Amina has thatmore in-depth expertise about
the art.
And you know, she was withChristie's and then Art Dubai,
and and I think that each one ofus also in terms of how we kind
of our personalities, so we canwe we manage to tackle each, you
(31:53):
know, if there's if there's aproblem, like you know, like
sometimes I'd get upset, like wemanage to kind of counter uh
counter our reactions in thatsense.
We communicate extremely welltogether.
And yeah, I I don't know.
SPEAKER_02 (32:08):
I mean, I'm not Nora said that because like it's
true, like you know, Lebanese,she's she's the business side of
things.
There's no time where I kind ofstress and I'm like, but Nora,
how are we gonna do that?
She's like, halas, we're gonnado it, trust me.
Or like I need to go there anddo this and do that.
She's like, We'll find thefunds, trust me.
Like, she has that kind of yes.
SPEAKER_00 (32:30):
I think it's the resilience of the Lebanese
always comes here, you know,like we always find solution,
there's always a way out,there's always a way to figure
things out.
SPEAKER_01 (32:39):
Amazing.
I think it's like, yes, exactly,the grit and the resilience.
And can you tell us superbriefly how was um you know
building a brand and becoming amother at the same time?
I have a lot of youngentrepreneur mothers in my
audience as well in the region,and I think they would be
interested to know and uh thatyou dived in, you chose to dive
(33:00):
in for that challenge.
SPEAKER_00 (33:02):
Yeah, honestly, I'm not gonna say that it's easy
because it's not, but I think uhpassion and drive played a huge
role.
Uh having a business partner, Idon't think I could have done
this alone.
Actually, I'm sure I could nothave done this without Amina.
She was a major pillar in makingthe open crate and making this
(33:23):
company, you know, grow and bewhere it is today.
Um I think at the beginning thechallenge was because all of it
was new, to be honest.
Like it was I'm being a motherfor the first time, I'm being an
entrepreneur and a businessowner for the first time.
So it's a lot of new things anda lot of learning as it goes.
So I had to kind of get a leapof faith and see where that
(33:46):
goes.
But the more time has passed, Ithink balance was like try to
find being very organized, findthe balance between my time,
having again I repeat that, buthaving a business partner really
kind of helped because at timeswhere I couldn't kind of take on
more, you know, you have thatsupport and someone that can
(34:06):
come and like take on for you.
Um, and also having a a partnerlike my husband being supportive
of us, uh, always being likehere and listening also kind of
helped to kind of continue andpersevere when there are days
you feel like I can't, I don'tknow if I can go through another
day like this.
(34:27):
Um, so I think it's a mix of allof you that made this work.
SPEAKER_01 (34:31):
Yeah, I mean, I think it's amazing.
It's so, so inspiring, to behonest.
The story of both of you and thestory of the open crate.
I want to dive briefly into uhyour kind of alter egos as
fashion icons as well, because Ithink art and fashion sort of
come very much intertwined.
(34:52):
And not only are you known forbeing kind of like these
avant-garde young women whostarted a platform that you know
promotes and champions Arabheritage and art and archiving,
but also you're known as beingvery stylish, very involved in
in kind of like art throughoutthe fashion world.
(35:13):
So I within my research I'vefound.
So I mean, how important is itfor you to kind of just always
have a presence at all of theseart world events?
It can be a lot, it is a bigcommitment, you know.
SPEAKER_02 (35:29):
And so, and and what are your thoughts on on we we
see more and more like there'sthat all of this, whether it's
like fashion, wellness,lifestyle, architecture, it's
all part of the same creativerhythm, and how you live
influences how you see, kind of,and um it all shapes your
(35:49):
sensitivity to beauty anddetail.
So you can't love art and thennot care about you know the
rest.
It's kind of it kind of goestogether.
And traveling allows us torecharge creatively and and
connect with global communities.
It's super important for us togo to Art Basel, uh to go to the
Venice Biennale, to go to uh NewYork for the Armory or Freeze.
(36:13):
Um, it it this is what feedsdirectly back into our work.
Um, and we don't separate lifefrom art in our life.
Like you go to Nora's house,it's like there's design
everywhere, art works on thewalls, and and the open crate is
just an extension of how we liveand observe the world somehow.
Um and yeah, there is like eventhe open crate as a digital
(36:36):
platform, because we keep onsaying it archives art, but it
just doesn't only archive art.
Like our clients are watchcollector, they are jewelry
collectors, they are um umsometimes pen collectors.
You'd be surprised.
We we catalogued a collection of1,000 pen or like fashion, also
people, women who want todocument all their jewelry and
(36:58):
their and their bags.
So it's just like it's it's aworld, it's a lot, it's it's
like a world of influences.
I don't that that's my take onit.
I don't know.
No, but Nora is definitely thefashion guru, by the way.
SPEAKER_01 (37:11):
No, but I love I love what you just said because
I think this is such animportant point.
And it does get lost uh in intranslation that it isn't just
art collections, it iscollections of objects, many
different things.
And and like you said, I mean, Ithink these worlds are
intertwined, but Snora, you cantouch more on this.
Like, I don't think you canseparate at this point,
(37:33):
especially with the digitizationof everything, art from fashion,
from high jewelry, etc.
I think we're looking ateverything in one larger pool.
SPEAKER_00 (37:43):
Yeah, I I think I would just add that, you know,
it becomes part of it's part oflike our DNA today today.
Like the fact that you know, youhave like this aesthetic kind of
um affinity, I would say.
Um it then it transcends intoall of these.
So it transcends, of course,into art and to design, into the
way you dress, into the way, youknow, the the jewelry, the the
(38:06):
way you travel.
So this just comes part of avery kind of seamless uh way for
us for us and for everyone todaythat's part of these industries.
So they're all kind of yeah,intertwined.
Uh I I like that word and Itotally agree.
And you can also see, you know,like a lot of brands are kind of
shifting now.
(38:27):
Like the art world has alwayshad that, you know, kind of
affinity.
You would always see like peoplebeing so well, like other than
knowing the art world, but beingalso well dressed.
But you could also see thebrands and the fashion industry
trying to dwell more into theart world.
Uh, there's a lot of morecollaborations taking place.
There's a lot of more brandsthat are trying to bring artists
(38:49):
to create some.
So it's like becoming a one kindof language between all of these
worlds, and it's it'sinteresting and it does very
well to us, like through theopen.
SPEAKER_02 (39:03):
That what I remember when I was studying modern
contemporary art at Christie's,and you know, you can see art
and science, art and philosophy,art and politics, like it
influences such a wide spectrumof of our daily life.
Like today, you can you can youcan have like uh you know some
ministries that want to infuseart and culture within their
(39:26):
department to to activate a softpower that tells much more about
your culture than a book or aquick conversation, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (39:35):
It's just like such and it's even the language that
we're teaching, like at now thefirst thing that a kid would do
is is paint, and that's hisfirst kind of expression.
And it's so interesting to seethat it starts from such small,
you know, like from since we'relike very young, and then it
just grows into being, like yousaid, through everything that
you do, you have an impact, theart is impacted in it.
SPEAKER_01 (40:00):
Yeah, I think I honestly that's 100% true.
And and one of my, I mean, mylast question actually for both
of you, and then I'll and thenwe'll have one more, is what is
your vision for the open crate,of course, in the coming years?
I think you're positioned in avery, very favorable place at
the moment, um, specificallywith kind of everything going on
(40:22):
in the Arab art world, as wellas South Asia, et cetera.
But I'd love to know what yourvision is for the platform.
I see on social media you have avery curated account.
It is very exclusive.
The individuals who follow youare very specific, niche.
So I'm interested to know what'snext.
SPEAKER_02 (40:42):
I guess it's to document as many collections
around the world as possible.
We've extended our reach toEurope and the US.
Uh, we have clients in in umMiami, New York, London, Geneva,
Paris, and we're super excitedabout that.
It shows that we're reallyfilling a gap where collectors
(41:03):
more than ever need to umunderstand what they own because
this is how um, you know, thisis how you tell uh it's like a
second life for your collection,you know.
You you you buy it and you buildit, and then then you document
it.
You kind of have you uh youunderstand to have a bird view
uh on it, and but also like howam I gonna divide it between my
(41:25):
kids?
How uh what how do I need toedit my collection?
Do I need to loan?
How can I participate moreactively into the dialogue of
this collection?
Because a collection always,always outlives you.
And um, sadly, and auctionhouses use that a lot, like you
know, there's only threesituations where people start
thinking smartly about theircollection.
It's debt, death, and divorce.
(41:47):
And we don't need to reach thosetimes of emergency where you
can't make a smart decisionbecause you're all like, you
know, you're emotional, youknow.
It's better to kind of like beprepared and treat it as like
people treat their real estateinvestment, their stocks, their
crypto, whatever it is, theyhave such a wide structure
around it.
(42:07):
No one would tell you, like, oh,I don't know what my portfolio
is made of.
If you collect that would belike, uh, I don't remember the
name of this artist, but Iremember I bought it in New
York.
Like you can treat it like insuch um uh like an important
way.
Um, so just to answer to you tothat, so yeah, collecting as
many collections around theworld as possible.
(42:29):
I would love to do something inLatin America to discover more
artists from that region, whichI find uh extremely uh creative
and colorful.
Uh but uh uh on my on my likeI'm I'm I'm kind of the
tech-obsessed person in that uhduo between me and Nora.
And I want to launch somethingcalled the Open Create Lab.
It's gonna be like kind of ourRD arm focused on future forward
(42:54):
formats, um, thinking likedigital certificates, AI powered
provenance, cultural dataintelligence, like kind of like
giving even diving even deeperabout how technology can uh
preserve uh art history uh um in100 years from now.
So that this is what what Ireally want to invest in, and
(43:15):
and I'll let Nora tell you moreabout our cultural uh
consultancy kind of uhlandscape.
SPEAKER_00 (43:21):
Yeah, so the I so yeah, so I mean uh yeah,
exactly.
Like I think the hopefully we'llget to collect as many
collections as possible.
Like this has always been likethe vision since the start.
And you know, we also have a uman kind of an advisory arm as
well.
So I think it's very importantfor us to keep discovering new
(43:43):
artists, to kind of um learnabout you know more uh emerging
artists and kind of introducesome of them to our clients uh
and get get get get get them tohave that more.
And um there's also like an artconsultancy where we've
sometimes do cultural programsto uh to some um to some players
(44:07):
in the art market.
So, for example, we had done acultural program with an artist
called Minchanso de Cotis andhis wife Claudia when they came
here, and we've kind of shownthem a bit of the inter inner
like cultural dynamics in theregion and in the UAE.
So kind of do more of that.
Um so there's so many this thisthere's so many opportunities
(44:29):
and so many things to continueto explore, and I really hope we
continue doing that.
SPEAKER_02 (44:34):
Yeah, and I think one of my to to finish on that,
like you know, we're a team ofof five women, um, or all from
the Arab world.
Like we're kind of scatteredaround the world, the the MENA
region.
Like we have one in Morocco, onein Amman, one in Lebanon, two of
us in Dubai.
Um they're remote, and but we'rekind of like training them as
(44:57):
becoming the next artspecialist.
It's not like we haveuniversities in the Arab world
that kind of train you to dothat.
So I, me and Nora, we pour ourheart and and and we try to like
um uh communicate everythingthat we've learned so far to
those young girls who, you know,studied in Boston or studied in
New York, studied maybe inLebanon.
(45:18):
They had no idea who were likeeven like the top five artists
in the region, and now they havesuch an extensive knowledge
about art in general, likewhether Middle Eastern or
Western, we train them as to howto handle an object, how to
catalog, how to talk about it,how to contextualize it, how to
price it, how to evaluate anartwork, a watch, and I another
(45:38):
item.
So we're very proud that we'rekind of like educating, like
forming, we're training the nextgeneration of art specialists as
well through our platform thatwe created.
So we're super proud and we wantto continue doing this.
Every single human being thatcomes and works with the open
crate will leave the open cratewith more knowledge about art
history than when they started.
(46:00):
And for us, it's also superimportant.
SPEAKER_01 (46:03):
That's fun, that's honestly fantastic.
And I really think that both ofyou are are really gonna have a
huge impact on kind of theeducational aspect of just
making sure that Arab art is notonly documented or archived,
like you said, but that peoplelearn more and maintain that
curiosity.
(46:23):
So I want to thank you so muchfor being on the podcast.
My last question for all of myguests is since this is the
curation podcast, I would lovefor you to share two to three
things in your life that arecurated by Nora and Amina that
you consider are super effectivetools for your success.
And it can be anything from likea morning routine, a habit, a
(46:46):
coffee, a workout, whatever itis, just like three top of mind
things that you can't livewithout.
SPEAKER_02 (46:54):
I think as a highly caffeinated person.
So yeah, I'm coffee, I'm acoffee snob, but I wake up, I I
uh recently enrolled intosomething called the Hoffman
Process, their online program.
And I think it's it brought meback to meditation and the
importance of neuroelasticityinto managing my emotion as an
(47:16):
entrepreneur.
So I wake up, I meditate for 10to 15 minutes.
I used to put a lot of pressureon myself meditating for 45
minutes.
It helped me a lot, but it thenit kind of became a chore.
So I'm back to it.
Uh, I go for a walk, I grab myfavorite coffee at my favorite
place, uh, super cold showernow, and and then I start my
(47:39):
work.
But this is like, and and atleast once a day I go to the
gym.
Like I need to like ex I need toexternalize all that energy and
all those emotions that I gothrough.
SPEAKER_01 (47:48):
Yeah, I I mean I think that's a fire morning
routine.
And do you mind sharing yourfavorite coffee or or do we want
to not share?
SPEAKER_02 (47:57):
Like, okay, okay, I'll share.
Listen, I'm currently havingthis podcast in Parish, which is
like uh my second city, uh, I'mbetween Paris and Dubai.
And I love my coffee uh calledDreaming Man.
Uh, it's a Japanese uh coffeeshop that opened in Paris like a
few years ago, and it's justlike a delicious uh coffee beans
(48:20):
that I go to.
SPEAKER_00 (48:21):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (48:24):
Yeah, I mean I think everyone wrote that down, so
that's fantastic.
Thank you.
Thank you for that.
Anoura.
SPEAKER_00 (48:30):
I think yeah, very similar.
So I I think as soon as I wakeup, I'm now enjoying.
I never used to have like amorning skincare care routine,
and I've been doing this for ayear now, and it's kind of
helped me start my day.
I feel like I've already kind ofestablished and accomplished
something good for myself.
So I'm always starting withthat, and then I have old school
(48:51):
coffee.
I have two espresso.
I need to have them between 7and 9 a.m.
Or it's impossible to start myday.
And then working out has beenextremely important.
But I think also working out interms of I've been it's been a
few months now that I'm tryingto take on the new sports, and I
feel like that also has beenhelping in terms of like I've
(49:13):
taken on tennis and martialarts, and so just not that only
Pilates kind of thing, andthat's been a very nice new uh
new opening to be honest.
SPEAKER_02 (49:24):
And I guess just to finish on that, it's like we put
so much pressure on our shoulderto always be like productive and
efficient, and you know, and Ijust turned 36 and I learned to
also and like uh listen to mynervous system.
And Nora told me that as well.
Like, when you want a break, youjust take a break.
(49:45):
Because in order to be creative,in order to create spray space
in your in your brain, if youkeep on pushing and pushing and
and trying to overachieve allthe time, you kind of like break
out of your own flow.
So if you want to take a day,walk around, people watch, just
do nothing, have a bath, read abook, it's gonna like the return
(50:06):
on investment on that is is muchmore important than just pushing
the boundaries of your energy atall times.
SPEAKER_01 (50:14):
Amazing.
Thank you both so much.
I mean, I think I always lovethis question because it just
kind of helps you understandexactly why people are
successful.
It tells you so much.
So thank you for your time.
Thank you for being on thecuration podcast.
And I can't wait for thisepisode to be out for everyone
(50:35):
to learn more about both of youand your incredible business,
the open crate.
SPEAKER_02 (50:40):
Thank you.
That was very fun, and thank youso much for giving us this
platform.
SPEAKER_01 (50:47):
Thank you for tuning in to this episode of the
Curation Podcast.
I hope you enjoyed this deepdive with Amina De Bisch and
Nora Monsour of the Open Crate.
What I love about their work ishow it blends tradition
innovation and ensuring that ourregion's stories from private
collections to cultural legaciesare preserved and elevated on a
global stage.
(51:08):
If you'd like to learn moreabout the Open Crate or follow
their journey, I'll be linkingtheir platforms in the episode
notes.
And as always, if you enjoyedthis conversation, please share
it, leave a review, and staytuned for more curated voices
from across art, fashion, andculture.
Thank you for listening.
Welcome back to the Curation Podcast.
I'm your host, Noor Hassan, andtoday we're diving into a
conversation at the intersectionof art, technology, and cultural
heritage.
I'm joined by two inspiring Arabwomen, Amina Debish and Nora
Monsour, co-founders of theOpenCrate.
Together they've built a digitalart platform that's redefining
(00:26):
how we preserve and managecollections, from art and design
to luxury objects.
Their mission is not only aboutcataloging, but about protecting
cultural heritage, personal,regional, and collective.
Their clients include some ofthe most important collectors
and cultural voices in theregion.
And they've recently beenfeatured in Vogue Arabia,
(00:47):
Harper's Bizarre Interiors, andArab News.
Beyond their professional work,they bring a fresh perspective
on lifestyle, travel, andfashion that makes them true
cultural curators.
I can't wait for you to hearthis conversation about
digitizing culture, preservingheritage, and living creatively.
And now to my conversation withAmina and Nora, the co-founders
(01:10):
of The Open Crate.
Right now I'm speaking with NoraMansour and Amina De Vish of the
Open Crate.
And I'm really looking forwardto this conversation because not
only is it one of your firstpodcasts, potentially your first
(01:31):
podcast, but also the concept ofthe open crate, I haven't
received a press release likethis in a while.
That has made me really feellike I'm super interested to
kind of learn more andunderstand how it is that you
put this project together.
So I think the best way to startwould be for you each to
(01:51):
introduce yourselves to theaudience briefly, and we'll talk
more about the open crate.
SPEAKER_02 (01:59):
So hi everyone.
And thank you for the amazing uhfeedback about the open crate.
Uh, we've been we we launchedthe open crate six years ago.
Uh I'm Emina de Bisch, I'mTunisian, born and raised, and
(02:20):
I've been living in Dubai nowfor the past 10 years.
And this city kind of likeplanted the seed inside of me to
to even like consider being anentrepreneur.
And this is how the OpenCratekind of was born by my meeting
with Nora.
SPEAKER_00 (02:37):
So hi everyone, I'm uh Nora Monsour.
Thank you, Nora, for having ustoday.
It's really a great new uhexperience to have our first
broadcast and to have it withyou.
So I'm a Lebanese, um born andraised, and I've been living in
the UAE for also over 10 yearsnow.
Uh started the company withAmina seven years ago, uh, with
(03:01):
all its uh challenges andbeautiful things, and we'll tell
you more about it now.
I'll let Amina tell you herstory and then I'll share mine.
SPEAKER_02 (03:08):
Yeah.
So you can tell it's our firstpodcast, right?
We're very like, hey, no guys,you guys are natural.
We'll get into the flow, we'llget into the flow.
So as I said, Nora and I met inDubai, and I guess like at some
point, you know, throughout ourcareers, my career, I've been
building like my art career forthe past 14 years.
Like I started in after studyingbanking and finance in Paris, I
(03:32):
uh quickly understood thatwasn't for me.
I loved the the whole kind oflike logical, systemic, like um
um uh repetitive aspect ofmathematics, but I knew that
finance wasn't my calling.
And when I moved to London, Iconsidered having another master
in modern contemporary art.
(03:53):
I did it at Christie'seducation, where I totally fell
in love with the process ofcataloging an artwork, an
object, any object actually.
And I loved again the repetitionof it, how precise it's super
surgical the way you catalog anartwork.
And there's like very kind oflike specific steps to follow,
how to do an artwork.
(04:13):
And I was like, oh wow, I loveit.
And and I got very lucky.
I got um to work at Christie'sin the post-round contemporary
department in London.
Uh, and when it was reallystarting to like, you know,
overtake the Impressionismdepartment, like everybody was
talking about Jean-MichelBasquiat, Anish Kapoor, uh
Anthony Gormley, uh, DiamondHearst, like all those names
(04:35):
starting to get like gain somuch momentum.
Um, and I guess like after a fewyears, after actually, no, left
Tunisia when I was 17, very uhEuropean centered, like very
kind of like I want to live inthe West, I want to learn from
the West.
SPEAKER_01 (04:51):
Yes, yes, yes.
Interesting.
And but like, how come?
How did you kind of curiosity?
SPEAKER_02 (04:57):
We're like we're like a post-colonial kind of
country where French is verypresent.
We all go to French school,American schools, and we grew up
with a sense of like everythingeverything is better in the
West, you know, versus like, ohyeah, Tunisia has so much to
offer.
I was very kind of like, no, I'mgonna live in Paris, London, New
(05:20):
York.
This is where I'm gonna live,this is how I'm gonna build my
expertise, and and that's whatcounts.
And at some point, I wasactually at a dinner uh at the
Tate Modern.
I was working at Christie's, andit was a gorgeous retrospective
of Gerard Richter, uh, one ofthe most incredible artists of
our time.
And I was sitting next to um avery important collector from
(05:42):
New York, and he started askingme questions about Arab artists,
and my knowledge on Western artwas kind of on point.
But when it came to Arab art, Iwas clueless.
And he looked at me in a verykind of like, you know, loving
way, telling me, like, listen,your name is Emina, you're from
Tunisia.
It's kind of expected from youto know all of those artists.
(06:03):
And he kind of like interestingseeds in November.
And fast forward like the nextyear, August, I was like, you
know what, I think I'm gonnamove to Dubai.
This is the um the epicenter ofof the art market right now.
Um, I owe it to myself to tokind of learn and understand who
I am through the gaze of arthistory and and let me see how
(06:26):
how diverse and rich this is.
So after you know moving toDubai, I joined Art Dubai in the
in the uh VIP uh department.
I mean, it sounds very, youknow, like VIP sounds very
sophisticated and maybe a bitspecial, but actually like it's
extremely, extremely like richbecause as a VIP department uh
(06:47):
manager, I get to like talk tocollectors from uh the MINASA
peninsula, like from uh, youknow, collectors from Iran,
Lebanon, Iraq, um uh even SouthAsia.
Uh, and I got to discoverincredibly sophisticated
collections.
And at some point I was like,you know, I had a frustration
(07:08):
between like how opaque andfragmented the art world was at
that time, and especially forcollectors in the Middle East,
like I was like, okay, they havethis, those incredible
collections who kind of hold anational importance because you
know there wasn't a lot ofmuseums back in the days.
Today, museums like it's the oneword that everybody's using,
(07:28):
whether it's Saudi, like Qatar,or Egypt, even like, but when I
moved in Dubai 10 years ago, itwasn't like at the forefront of
every kind of like, you know,yes, yes.
So I was like, okay, let uscreate something that uh kind of
uh merges rigor and elegance anda platform that brings
(07:49):
transparency, like digitalinfrastructure, uh, but also a
curatorial eye for privatecollectors.
Um, I wanted to um havestructure, uh, discretion and
trust through a tool that iskind of like avant-garde, you
know.
I wanted collectors to be ableto have their collection inside
their pocket with all theinformation related to every
(08:11):
single artwork in one clickthrough a very private app,
which is the Open Crates.
So yeah, at some point I waslike, uh yeah, it became a
bridge between art andtechnology, but we kept a very
human core at it with adedicated manager.
SPEAKER_01 (08:29):
Yeah, and I think it's interesting because you
came at a time where, like yousaid, there was not enough
information and there were notyet established institutions.
And so kind of digitizing itimmediately, was this your first
instinct?
You never thought of creating,for example, I don't know, a
space, a physical space, or anyother way of going about kind of
(08:54):
archiving and documenting thesecollections.
Because I think it's very smartthat you, like you said, it's
avant-garde.
You took three steps ahead andyou were like, let's just go for
the digital and make it so thatit is accessible to the
collectors.
And how did that thinking comeabout?
SPEAKER_00 (09:11):
I'll I'll get to that because that's a very good
question.
Because we didn't really startoff thinking digital.
So my background is not as um, Istarted more in finance.
So my uh choice to start theOpen Create with Amina is like
both linked to a story offriendship, but then a deep
desire to pursue a path in inthe art industry.
(09:33):
Because I was more in thefinancial world, so I joined
Pricewaterhouse Coopers as aconsultant, and then I continued
my career into a merger andacquisition position with the
Bin Laden group here in Dubai.
But these experiences kind ofreally helped solidify my
knowledge in business.
And despite, you know, havinglike doing well in the financial
(09:55):
world, I realized that somethingwas missing.
You know, I was one I was veryhungry for something different.
And I remember I went to uhvisit my aunt Rola Wesney in
Paris.
And at the time she was workingwith Carpenter's Workshop
Gallery, which is uh one of themost important design galleries
in the world.
And this is when I realized,yeah, I needed like a change,
(10:18):
you know, like a twist in in mycareer.
And I remember when I visitedthis space, uh every single
piece, I was attracted to everysingle piece.
I wanted to know more about theartist, about the story, about
the medium, just discover more.
Like I had a lot of questions,and this is when I'm like, okay,
I really need to dwell into thisworld.
(10:39):
And I remember there was thisone work uh by Andrea Bronzi,
which is an architect and anartist, um, an Italian architect
and artist.
And uh so he had this workthat's like uh made up out of
steel with like this real trunk,uh tree trunk intersected
(10:59):
intertwined intersected in it,which I found very interesting
how he managed to kind of dwellthe manufacturer world with like
more nature, and that was thestart.
And I got lucky to find a job atCarpenter's Workshop Gallery in
London, and I got to travel withthem, and I think this was
extremely important to kind ofopen my eyes because I get to do
(11:19):
art first in Dubai and Londonand Paris and Art Basel.
And this is when we really likediscover, you know, all of these
artists, and then when I cameback to Dubai and I saw and
discovered how many incrediblecollections there were, and I
was approached by this collectorto document his collection and
(11:40):
to kind of catalogue, and he'sbeen trying to do that more for
the past three years, and hehadn't managed anyone because he
didn't have find the rightperson who had the expertise for
it.
So when we we started working onthat, when I started working on
that, and I kind of shared thatwith Amina, Amina's like, it's
so important to kind ofdocument, and this was a massive
(12:03):
collection that had very or verylittle documentation.
And we started off as doing itthrough a book.
So it wasn't like a digital, uh,there wasn't a digital imprint
yet.
And when we started doing thebook and cataloging everything,
archiving the information,making sure the artist named the
provenance, the passport of thework, the history, the artist
(12:25):
bios.
Um after we after finishing thatproject, we realized that you
know he was buying more.
There are things that weremoving around.
You can't keep track byprinting, and of course, you
don't want to print books, youknow, like right, yeah, yeah.
So this is when the idea ofgoing digital kind of um came.
(12:46):
And and we're like, okay, weneed to really build a platform
that allows people to documentand you know, have access to the
information that's at the coreof their collection.
But not only that, when you youuse the digital platform, you
also have so manyfunctionalities and tools.
So you kind of make smarterdecisions and you kind of can
(13:07):
take it to the next level.
And yeah, here we are like sevenyears later, really trying to
preserve, you know, this all ofthis this art and all of these
this information and to protectit for the future.
SPEAKER_01 (13:22):
I think it's interesting.
Both of you are doing the workessentially of you know heritage
preservation through a digitalplatform.
And I'd love for you to share anexample of a collector or a
project or a specific collectionwhere you felt like it really
was kind of a turning point forthe open crate and a turning
(13:44):
point for both of your careersbecause it's interesting you
both have sort of financialbackgrounds and did not
essentially come from the artworld, but you entered into the
art world and took yourbackground and sort of built
this, you know, platform thatnow acts as not only as Arab
heritage preservation, but alsokind of a documentation and
(14:06):
archival space.
So, what was kind of acollection or a particular
moment where you felt like thiswork is very important and it's
also being very well received?
SPEAKER_02 (14:16):
I have to say that every single collector we come
across, we're like, wow, that'sso important what we're doing,
because like we keep ondiscovering new artists, new
masterpieces, artworks that werelike made in the 30s by art
activists, by women like by likeInje Flatun, who painted in in
jail, or who's a poet, anactivist, a philosopher, a
(14:38):
writer.
Like, like there's so much tosay about those artists, and
just the fact that we get toaccess like a specific word they
did, specific work they did inthe 30s or the 40s with a text
attached to it that describes amoment in life, maybe a
historical moment in our regionor in our country, or even in
the evolution of feminism in the20s in Egypt.
(15:02):
Like every for me, archiving, ifyou are like I'm obsessed with
making sure that data isprotected for the future, like
anything you archive, where likeuh and and so fascinating to
document how we we live rightnow, like the glass that I'm
using, the phone that I'm using,the laptop.
I have we have a client thatalso collects Apple uh items,
(15:25):
you know, from the iPod to thefirst laptop to now like you
know, iPhone 17.
So um to respond to that, likefor me, every single collection
feels so special.
But the turning point, and he'sone of the first uh clients who
really trusted us with theOpenCrate.
You know, we were just two youngwomen in our late 20s, um,
(15:48):
creating a brand out of nowhere,accessing, asking people to let
us access the most intimateemotional item in their life,
which is like collecting art,you know, getting house, opening
uh their rooms and seeing whatthey have on their wall.
And I always say to our clients,like, it's incredible how much I
get to I get to know you betteronce I get to see your
(16:10):
collection because there is onlyso much you can say with words,
there is only so much you cansay with how you dress or like
your job, or but the collectiongets me accessing something
almost subconscious about you,which I love because it tells a
story about every step of yourlife.
Um, and uh the collector thatreally, really trusted us, and I
remember I love saying that thatbecause I'm so in awe with my
(16:34):
business partner Nora, becauseyou know, she's not only an
entrepreneur, she's a mom of twokids, she's a wife, she's an
incredible woman.
And when we created thatcompany, I remember she was
pregnant with her first kid, andit was like uh a huge collection
of 800 works of almost 200artists.
This collector, Mohamed EvKhami, has exhibited his
(16:54):
collection in New York, inCanada, in um uh Dubai, in Abu
Dhabi.
And um, we can't he kind oftrusted us with one of the most
important Iranian collections inthe world that it and that
shows, you know, how the theresponsibility of private
collectors in the public sphere,because through this collection,
(17:14):
he's showing and telling such adifferent narrative about Iran.
Um, so me and Nora, who knewlike, come on, like top 10
artists in Iran, maybe, but westarted knowing like literally
from like the little guy thatsells his works for like$200 to
the most important.
And like we we we went throughmodern art and also very, very
(17:35):
uh ancient object of the Safavidera, or and it was just like
such an incredible journeybecause we started with
inventory, and and you know, youget to know that person uh
because you you get to sit downwith them a lot, and then you
know, once they understand whatthey have with Mohammed Ev
Khami, we were like, okay, let'screate a catalog that you can
(17:56):
like um gift to your guests whenthey come to your house so they
can go back home with a story totell.
And whenever they want to knowabout the artists that they saw
in your house, they can read thebook.
And then we're like, okay, butlet's let's create a virtual
museum because maybe a studentthat is studying Islamic art in
Stanford University wants toknow about more about Iran, and
(18:16):
maybe he can like so we when wethought about virtual museum, we
thought about content, wethought about it like a podcast.
We were like, okay, what can wedo to we will never replace the
physical interaction with anartwork?
This is virtually impossible.
So we were like, what is digitaluh uh filling as a gap?
It's content.
(18:37):
We can create content, so everysingle artwork has a story.
You can also distort an artwork,you can make like a carpet, like
a plane made of a carpet that issuper tiny, gigantic, and flying
around the structure.
You can actually hire a realarchitect that is uh uh he
actually won the Agakan uhmuseum uh prize.
(18:58):
Um and he he's the one I forgothis name to, but he's the one
who who uh created thestructure.
He hired a proper curator, uh uhFereshteh Daf Fereshteh, who uh
is um an incredible creator ofIranian art.
So, you know, like it's justlike this adventure that keeps
on growing.
Then he published a book withFiden.
Now we're working on launchinghis online archive of every
(19:21):
single artwork he's evercollected.
So this for me, and I I talkwith it with a lot of passion
because you know, it gets onesuper important collector to
trust two young girls, and thisis what he did, and I'm so
grateful for that.
And this is for me like aturning point.
And I remember Nora likedocumenting, you know, with her
beggie like eight months, andand she was like, entering that.
SPEAKER_01 (19:45):
I was like, no, she's like, you know, honestly,
that's an incredible, incrediblelike anecdote as to how much it
takes just one person to reallytrust vision.
And then from there, I don'tthink that there's any going
back.
You know, you move forward atthat point.
And it's like you said, it iskind of an educational tool at
(20:09):
the end of the day.
I love that you mentionedstudents and the idea that now
essentially the youngergeneration is learning much
differently than we did.
They need these digitized,accessible tools as they will
listen to a podcast like thisand understand better how two,
for example, young Arab womenbuilt a platform like the Open
(20:30):
Crate.
But I'd love to touch on thatsince you mentioned it, Amina,
which is how were you receivedin the art world at first?
What challenges did you face as,again, two young Arab women and
you had a vision, it wasdifferent.
And how was there any pushback?
Was there were there manysupporters?
(20:50):
Can you tell us a bit more foryou and Nora?
And of course, I want Nora totouch on the aspect of being a
mother as well at the time,becoming a mother.
SPEAKER_02 (21:02):
Well, I'll start with the pushback and I'll let
Nora continue on that.
But oh, the adventures we had,me and Nora.
Like, honestly, take so muchlike a leap of faith, and it's
so good that we didn't know whatwas gonna come after because we
maybe you wouldn't have done it.
We were just like, Yeah, we'regonna create a digital archive
for collectors, and we're like,okay, but we don't have a
(21:22):
background in tech.
And how is it done?
And and you know, the art marketis so resistant to any kind of
like technological innovation,you know.
It's it's it's one of the mostopaque and fragmented market for
that reason, because there'slike such a resistance uh
because it's a resistance, Ibelieve, to innovation in
general.
SPEAKER_01 (21:41):
I mean, I remember when there was the the first
like digital section at ArtDubai a couple of years ago, and
it was like a whole frenzy.
And I mean, I just think thatthat's really interesting, and
and not just that, it's kind ofuh uh it's a difficult market to
access in general to understand.
SPEAKER_02 (21:58):
So yeah, and it's like there's like they do three
steps ahead and then they goback two steps.
Like, look at Christie's, theyjust shut down their digital
department, which they know withthe NFTs and post-COVID, etc.
But I would say that for me andNora, uh, the resistance was
mostly don't forget we're MiddleEastern, we are talking to a
(22:19):
certain culture.
People are very private abouttheir homes, they're very
humble.
It's not kind of culture.
And what when they collect, tobe honest, like it's not like in
the US or in in Europe where youhave like you know a lot of like
uh defiscalization andincentives, it's really like
they started to buy art out oflove.
And so when the the resistancewas more like uh first to enter
(22:44):
their house and their theiruniverse, but it it it kind of
like eased up when we wererecommended from you know words
of mouth and and building trust,and they saw that we're so
super, super private andconfidential.
And I guess as well, it's likeonline.
Oh my god, online means it'smeans it's public, everybody's
gonna know what I have, etc.
Interesting.
I think COVID really helped intolike just jumping 10 years ahead
(23:07):
in the sense that peopleunderstood that you can't in in
2025, and even back in the daysin 2021, like you can live in a
world where you live throughpapers and Excel sheets and and
a few pictures on your on youron your phone and a couple of
invoice on an email.
Like you can't treat this assetin such a non-important way.
(23:31):
Like it's a very importantasset, it tells a story, it
holds value, it holds a feeling,it's an and it's it's an
investment, and it has been onesince the middle of the middle
age, actually.
Like, um, so it's it's it's asuper old investment asset.
And yeah, the resistance wasthat's the two ones that would
come up to mind.
I don't know, Nora, what youthink?
SPEAKER_00 (23:51):
So, yeah, yeah, exactly.
So this was particularly likethe idea, especially when we,
you know, we're talking topeople from the from the region,
like having things online wasmaybe a bit of the privacy, a
bit of the confidentiality, abit of heavy things in public
was the major uh pushback.
And they didn't reallyunderstand the whole thing.
(24:13):
Like it's a very new concept.
So what Amina and I built isextremely niche.
And till today, whenever weshare, I share, like we share
what we what we've created, alot of people were like, oh, how
did you come up with thatconcept that's extremely that's
extremely niche and smart anduseful, but people didn't think
about it and didn't see thepurpose of it.
(24:35):
So when we'd go and we'd belike, we want to document your
collection, we want to do thecataloging, we want to make sure
that you have an intellectualproperty over what is it that
you own, you want to haveaccountability over your
collection.
Like Amina said, it's an asset.
So at the beginning, thepushback was mainly to have it
online, but then as soon as thatbarrier kind of cut, and of
(24:57):
course, COVID was a major playerbecause people got more
comfortable to, you know,started looking at art first
through, you know, uh through uhdifferent um digital solutions,
uh, having more Zoom calls,receiving, you know, a lot of
the art through PDFs.
That kind of helped break thatbarrier.
And it was it's interestingbecause one client that stood
(25:19):
out, so she like understood theconcept of cataloging and she
really wanted, so we did likeinventory books for her, and she
she understood how important isit it was, but then the online
she kind of got stuck on that onthat aspect.
And now, five years later, westill work with her, and she
reached out to me this summerand she's like, Nora, I'm ready
(25:41):
to go digital.
And I'm like, Oh, that'samazing, but what was the
switch?
And then she's realized, she'slike, you know, the more I the
more like we know we keep doingadventure, and the more to kind
of keep track of everythingbecame more challenging for her.
And seeing the all the benefitsof having all of that accessible
(26:02):
to you in your pocket through anapp with all of the
functionalities finally kind ofkicked in.
And it was a major for me, amajor point where I feel like
okay, we've converted a very,very like resistant client into
uh into becoming a TOC member onthe platform.
SPEAKER_01 (26:22):
That's interesting.
And I guess at that point youfeel like, okay, so I mean,
essentially archiving in papers,etc., like you guys just said,
it's kind of very ephemeral.
It it does run the risk in thisday and age of kind of you know
wasting all of that work becausethere's no way to guarantee that
(26:43):
it remains intact.
But I mean, I want to understandfrom the perspectives that you
have as Middle Eastern women, Ifeel you brought something
different to the kind of theworld of archiving art, the
world of digitizing art.
You had your own perspectivefrom growing up um, you know, in
(27:04):
Tunisia or Lebanon, travelingthe world and coming back.
What have been the mostimportant, like you would say,
character traits that you guyshave that have made clients
trust you, that have made thembelieve that it's it's really
the open crate is the platformto you know sacredly hold their
collection?
(27:25):
Because I think my audience isalways very interested in like
you as individuals, like whatare the traits that make you
different in in this particularfield?
SPEAKER_02 (27:34):
I think first and foremost, like honestly, um,
it's integrity and and you know,it really came from an urge, uh
like a profound, genuine urgebetween me and Nora to do
something good for our region.
Like it wasn't like, okay, letme of course, of course, we want
to make money.
(27:54):
Of course, we're gonna be likewe're profitable and we're super
proud of it.
And we're like two entrepreneursthat built a successful company,
but we are extremely genuine inour approach, authentic.
And I think it's super importantin that in that region.
We know that it can be just likeI'm trying to sell you a
product.
No, like I'm I'm talking to acollector who understands this
(28:17):
emotional object and wants towork with people who are loyal,
intelligent, and who haveintegrity.
And I think the fact that we'rewomen, we approach leadership
with through empathy and depth.
Um, and again, like growing upin Tunisia, you know, you always
have to negotiate betweenheritage and modernity all your
(28:37):
life.
Uh it's the it's a duality thatshows it's it's it's that
duality that shows how we buildbridges across culture and and
and we bring sensitivity,nuance, uh, but also some sort
of a boldness to to redefine howthe region is perceived.
Like, you know, uh now thatDubai, you know, Dubai is
(28:59):
everybody knows Dubai now.
Dubai chocolate, Dubai this,Dubai that, everybody moves to
is moving to Dubai.
But I still struggle with howthey think the world perceives
us.
So I love to kind of like breakuh the the mold of how they
think, but how is it to be awoman and live in Dubai or like
how is it to be an entrepreneur?
I'm like, I've never felt morerespected and more empowered
(29:20):
than when I actually moved backto my region.
Uh and we're not talkingrepresentative, we really are
architects of its next chapter.
Like they um we wanted to dosomething for the Arab world in
order for the Arab world to bepart of the dialogue, you know?
And when we say we document, westarted, don't forget, okay, we
started with the Middle East, westarted with Dubai.
(29:41):
Nora brought an incredibleroster of clients from Lebanon
because it's really embedded inLebanese culture to collect.
I love that.
It's such a creative like cityand and country.
And but we started with theMiddle East, uh, but not all
Middle Eastern collector byMiddle Eastern art, like that's
a cliche.
Some Middle Eastern clients haveone of the most incredible
(30:03):
Western collections in theworld.
Like they could compete with thebiggest museums here or in the
West.
SPEAKER_01 (30:08):
Yes, I think that's actually a really, really
interesting point because Ithink that's a misconception.
People do think that MiddleEastern collectors collect
exclusively Middle Eastern art.
I don't know where that camefrom.
But I think it's it's so coolthat you're both from different
also parts of the Middle East.
So you're Tunisian, Amina, andyou're Lebanese Nora, and you're
both in Dubai now, you know.
And I just want to know whathave what have kind of like
(30:32):
what's the dynamic in in inbetween both of you?
Like, what do you think yourstrengths are versus Amina's
strengths are versus Nora's atthe open crate?
Because I feel like yourpersonalities are so different,
but they complement each otherperfectly.
SPEAKER_00 (30:47):
Yeah, that's very true.
So I think one of the reasonsthis the company and Amina and I
worked is that we'recomplementary.
So we both are very passionateabout the business.
And like to go back to that ideaof when we talk to clients, they
can see how much we care and howlike trustworthy we are.
And that comes out from both ofus.
(31:09):
But I think each one brings adifferent side.
So for example, I have a verybusiness kind of man, like a
business-oriented kind ofapproach to things.
Like, you know, I always think,you know, about I take care of
the financial aspects of thecompany, the legislations and
you know, the licenses and andhow everything needs to work.
(31:32):
And you know, Amina has thatmore in-depth expertise about
the art.
And you know, she was withChristie's and then Art Dubai,
and and I think that each one ofus also in terms of how we kind
of our personalities, so we canwe we manage to tackle each, you
(31:53):
know, if there's if there's aproblem, like you know, like
sometimes I'd get upset, like wemanage to kind of counter uh
counter our reactions in thatsense.
We communicate extremely welltogether.
And yeah, I I don't know.
SPEAKER_02 (32:08):
I mean, I'm not Nora said that because like it's
true, like you know, Lebanese,she's she's the business side of
things.
There's no time where I kind ofstress and I'm like, but Nora,
how are we gonna do that?
She's like, halas, we're gonnado it, trust me.
Or like I need to go there anddo this and do that.
She's like, We'll find thefunds, trust me.
Like, she has that kind of yes.
SPEAKER_00 (32:30):
I think it's the resilience of the Lebanese
always comes here, you know,like we always find solution,
there's always a way out,there's always a way to figure
things out.
SPEAKER_01 (32:39):
Amazing.
I think it's like, yes, exactly,the grit and the resilience.
And can you tell us superbriefly how was um you know
building a brand and becoming amother at the same time?
I have a lot of youngentrepreneur mothers in my
audience as well in the region,and I think they would be
interested to know and uh thatyou dived in, you chose to dive
(33:00):
in for that challenge.
SPEAKER_00 (33:02):
Yeah, honestly, I'm not gonna say that it's easy
because it's not, but I think uhpassion and drive played a huge
role.
Uh having a business partner, Idon't think I could have done
this alone.
Actually, I'm sure I could nothave done this without Amina.
She was a major pillar in makingthe open crate and making this
(33:23):
company, you know, grow and bewhere it is today.
Um I think at the beginning thechallenge was because all of it
was new, to be honest.
Like it was I'm being a motherfor the first time, I'm being an
entrepreneur and a businessowner for the first time.
So it's a lot of new things anda lot of learning as it goes.
So I had to kind of get a leapof faith and see where that
(33:46):
goes.
But the more time has passed, Ithink balance was like try to
find being very organized, findthe balance between my time,
having again I repeat that, buthaving a business partner really
kind of helped because at timeswhere I couldn't kind of take on
more, you know, you have thatsupport and someone that can
(34:06):
come and like take on for you.
Um, and also having a a partnerlike my husband being supportive
of us, uh, always being likehere and listening also kind of
helped to kind of continue andpersevere when there are days
you feel like I can't, I don'tknow if I can go through another
day like this.
(34:27):
Um, so I think it's a mix of allof you that made this work.
SPEAKER_01 (34:31):
Yeah, I mean, I think it's amazing.
It's so, so inspiring, to behonest.
The story of both of you and thestory of the open crate.
I want to dive briefly into uhyour kind of alter egos as
fashion icons as well, because Ithink art and fashion sort of
come very much intertwined.
(34:52):
And not only are you known forbeing kind of like these
avant-garde young women whostarted a platform that you know
promotes and champions Arabheritage and art and archiving,
but also you're known as beingvery stylish, very involved in
in kind of like art throughoutthe fashion world.
(35:13):
So I within my research I'vefound.
So I mean, how important is itfor you to kind of just always
have a presence at all of theseart world events?
It can be a lot, it is a bigcommitment, you know.
SPEAKER_02 (35:29):
And so, and and what are your thoughts on on we we
see more and more like there'sthat all of this, whether it's
like fashion, wellness,lifestyle, architecture, it's
all part of the same creativerhythm, and how you live
influences how you see, kind of,and um it all shapes your
(35:49):
sensitivity to beauty anddetail.
So you can't love art and thennot care about you know the
rest.
It's kind of it kind of goestogether.
And traveling allows us torecharge creatively and and
connect with global communities.
It's super important for us togo to Art Basel, uh to go to the
Venice Biennale, to go to uh NewYork for the Armory or Freeze.
(36:13):
Um, it it this is what feedsdirectly back into our work.
Um, and we don't separate lifefrom art in our life.
Like you go to Nora's house,it's like there's design
everywhere, art works on thewalls, and and the open crate is
just an extension of how we liveand observe the world somehow.
Um and yeah, there is like eventhe open crate as a digital
(36:36):
platform, because we keep onsaying it archives art, but it
just doesn't only archive art.
Like our clients are watchcollector, they are jewelry
collectors, they are um umsometimes pen collectors.
You'd be surprised.
We we catalogued a collection of1,000 pen or like fashion, also
people, women who want todocument all their jewelry and
(36:58):
their and their bags.
So it's just like it's it's aworld, it's a lot, it's it's
like a world of influences.
I don't that that's my take onit.
I don't know.
No, but Nora is definitely thefashion guru, by the way.
SPEAKER_01 (37:11):
No, but I love I love what you just said because
I think this is such animportant point.
And it does get lost uh in intranslation that it isn't just
art collections, it iscollections of objects, many
different things.
And and like you said, I mean, Ithink these worlds are
intertwined, but Snora, you cantouch more on this.
Like, I don't think you canseparate at this point,
(37:33):
especially with the digitizationof everything, art from fashion,
from high jewelry, etc.
I think we're looking ateverything in one larger pool.
SPEAKER_00 (37:43):
Yeah, I I think I would just add that, you know,
it becomes part of it's part oflike our DNA today today.
Like the fact that you know, youhave like this aesthetic kind of
um affinity, I would say.
Um it then it transcends intoall of these.
So it transcends, of course,into art and to design, into the
way you dress, into the way, youknow, the the jewelry, the the
(38:06):
way you travel.
So this just comes part of avery kind of seamless uh way for
us for us and for everyone todaythat's part of these industries.
So they're all kind of yeah,intertwined.
Uh I I like that word and Itotally agree.
And you can also see, you know,like a lot of brands are kind of
shifting now.
(38:27):
Like the art world has alwayshad that, you know, kind of
affinity.
You would always see like peoplebeing so well, like other than
knowing the art world, but beingalso well dressed.
But you could also see thebrands and the fashion industry
trying to dwell more into theart world.
Uh, there's a lot of morecollaborations taking place.
There's a lot of more brandsthat are trying to bring artists
(38:49):
to create some.
So it's like becoming a one kindof language between all of these
worlds, and it's it'sinteresting and it does very
well to us, like through theopen.
SPEAKER_02 (39:03):
That what I remember when I was studying modern
contemporary art at Christie's,and you know, you can see art
and science, art and philosophy,art and politics, like it
influences such a wide spectrumof of our daily life.
Like today, you can you can youcan have like uh you know some
ministries that want to infuseart and culture within their
(39:26):
department to to activate a softpower that tells much more about
your culture than a book or aquick conversation, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (39:35):
It's just like such and it's even the language that
we're teaching, like at now thefirst thing that a kid would do
is is paint, and that's hisfirst kind of expression.
And it's so interesting to seethat it starts from such small,
you know, like from since we'relike very young, and then it
just grows into being, like yousaid, through everything that
you do, you have an impact, theart is impacted in it.
SPEAKER_01 (40:00):
Yeah, I think I honestly that's 100% true.
And and one of my, I mean, mylast question actually for both
of you, and then I'll and thenwe'll have one more, is what is
your vision for the open crate,of course, in the coming years?
I think you're positioned in avery, very favorable place at
the moment, um, specificallywith kind of everything going on
(40:22):
in the Arab art world, as wellas South Asia, et cetera.
But I'd love to know what yourvision is for the platform.
I see on social media you have avery curated account.
It is very exclusive.
The individuals who follow youare very specific, niche.
So I'm interested to know what'snext.
SPEAKER_02 (40:42):
I guess it's to document as many collections
around the world as possible.
We've extended our reach toEurope and the US.
Uh, we have clients in in umMiami, New York, London, Geneva,
Paris, and we're super excitedabout that.
It shows that we're reallyfilling a gap where collectors
(41:03):
more than ever need to umunderstand what they own because
this is how um, you know, thisis how you tell uh it's like a
second life for your collection,you know.
You you you buy it and you buildit, and then then you document
it.
You kind of have you uh youunderstand to have a bird view
uh on it, and but also like howam I gonna divide it between my
(41:25):
kids?
How uh what how do I need toedit my collection?
Do I need to loan?
How can I participate moreactively into the dialogue of
this collection?
Because a collection always,always outlives you.
And um, sadly, and auctionhouses use that a lot, like you
know, there's only threesituations where people start
thinking smartly about theircollection.
It's debt, death, and divorce.
(41:47):
And we don't need to reach thosetimes of emergency where you
can't make a smart decisionbecause you're all like, you
know, you're emotional, youknow.
It's better to kind of like beprepared and treat it as like
people treat their real estateinvestment, their stocks, their
crypto, whatever it is, theyhave such a wide structure
around it.
(42:07):
No one would tell you, like, oh,I don't know what my portfolio
is made of.
If you collect that would belike, uh, I don't remember the
name of this artist, but Iremember I bought it in New
York.
Like you can treat it like insuch um uh like an important
way.
Um, so just to answer to you tothat, so yeah, collecting as
many collections around theworld as possible.
(42:29):
I would love to do something inLatin America to discover more
artists from that region, whichI find uh extremely uh creative
and colorful.
Uh but uh uh on my on my likeI'm I'm I'm kind of the
tech-obsessed person in that uhduo between me and Nora.
And I want to launch somethingcalled the Open Create Lab.
It's gonna be like kind of ourRD arm focused on future forward
(42:54):
formats, um, thinking likedigital certificates, AI powered
provenance, cultural dataintelligence, like kind of like
giving even diving even deeperabout how technology can uh
preserve uh art history uh um in100 years from now.
So that this is what what Ireally want to invest in, and
(43:15):
and I'll let Nora tell you moreabout our cultural uh
consultancy kind of uhlandscape.
SPEAKER_00 (43:21):
Yeah, so the I so yeah, so I mean uh yeah,
exactly.
Like I think the hopefully we'llget to collect as many
collections as possible.
Like this has always been likethe vision since the start.
And you know, we also have a uman kind of an advisory arm as
well.
So I think it's very importantfor us to keep discovering new
(43:43):
artists, to kind of um learnabout you know more uh emerging
artists and kind of introducesome of them to our clients uh
and get get get get get them tohave that more.
And um there's also like an artconsultancy where we've
sometimes do cultural programsto uh to some um to some players
(44:07):
in the art market.
So, for example, we had done acultural program with an artist
called Minchanso de Cotis andhis wife Claudia when they came
here, and we've kind of shownthem a bit of the inter inner
like cultural dynamics in theregion and in the UAE.
So kind of do more of that.
Um so there's so many this thisthere's so many opportunities
(44:29):
and so many things to continueto explore, and I really hope we
continue doing that.
SPEAKER_02 (44:34):
Yeah, and I think one of my to to finish on that,
like you know, we're a team ofof five women, um, or all from
the Arab world.
Like we're kind of scatteredaround the world, the the MENA
region.
Like we have one in Morocco, onein Amman, one in Lebanon, two of
us in Dubai.
Um they're remote, and but we'rekind of like training them as
(44:57):
becoming the next artspecialist.
It's not like we haveuniversities in the Arab world
that kind of train you to dothat.
So I, me and Nora, we pour ourheart and and and we try to like
um uh communicate everythingthat we've learned so far to
those young girls who, you know,studied in Boston or studied in
New York, studied maybe inLebanon.
(45:18):
They had no idea who were likeeven like the top five artists
in the region, and now they havesuch an extensive knowledge
about art in general, likewhether Middle Eastern or
Western, we train them as to howto handle an object, how to
catalog, how to talk about it,how to contextualize it, how to
price it, how to evaluate anartwork, a watch, and I another
(45:38):
item.
So we're very proud that we'rekind of like educating, like
forming, we're training the nextgeneration of art specialists as
well through our platform thatwe created.
So we're super proud and we wantto continue doing this.
Every single human being thatcomes and works with the open
crate will leave the open cratewith more knowledge about art
history than when they started.
(46:00):
And for us, it's also superimportant.
SPEAKER_01 (46:03):
That's fun, that's honestly fantastic.
And I really think that both ofyou are are really gonna have a
huge impact on kind of theeducational aspect of just
making sure that Arab art is notonly documented or archived,
like you said, but that peoplelearn more and maintain that
curiosity.
(46:23):
So I want to thank you so muchfor being on the podcast.
My last question for all of myguests is since this is the
curation podcast, I would lovefor you to share two to three
things in your life that arecurated by Nora and Amina that
you consider are super effectivetools for your success.
And it can be anything from likea morning routine, a habit, a
(46:46):
coffee, a workout, whatever itis, just like three top of mind
things that you can't livewithout.
SPEAKER_02 (46:54):
I think as a highly caffeinated person.
So yeah, I'm coffee, I'm acoffee snob, but I wake up, I I
uh recently enrolled intosomething called the Hoffman
Process, their online program.
And I think it's it brought meback to meditation and the
importance of neuroelasticityinto managing my emotion as an
(47:16):
entrepreneur.
So I wake up, I meditate for 10to 15 minutes.
I used to put a lot of pressureon myself meditating for 45
minutes.
It helped me a lot, but it thenit kind of became a chore.
So I'm back to it.
Uh, I go for a walk, I grab myfavorite coffee at my favorite
place, uh, super cold showernow, and and then I start my
(47:39):
work.
But this is like, and and atleast once a day I go to the
gym.
Like I need to like ex I need toexternalize all that energy and
all those emotions that I gothrough.
SPEAKER_01 (47:48):
Yeah, I I mean I think that's a fire morning
routine.
And do you mind sharing yourfavorite coffee or or do we want
to not share?
SPEAKER_02 (47:57):
Like, okay, okay, I'll share.
Listen, I'm currently havingthis podcast in Parish, which is
like uh my second city, uh, I'mbetween Paris and Dubai.
And I love my coffee uh calledDreaming Man.
Uh, it's a Japanese uh coffeeshop that opened in Paris like a
few years ago, and it's justlike a delicious uh coffee beans
(48:20):
that I go to.
SPEAKER_00 (48:21):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (48:24):
Yeah, I mean I think everyone wrote that down, so
that's fantastic.
Thank you.
Thank you for that.
Anoura.
SPEAKER_00 (48:30):
I think yeah, very similar.
So I I think as soon as I wakeup, I'm now enjoying.
I never used to have like amorning skincare care routine,
and I've been doing this for ayear now, and it's kind of
helped me start my day.
I feel like I've already kind ofestablished and accomplished
something good for myself.
So I'm always starting withthat, and then I have old school
(48:51):
coffee.
I have two espresso.
I need to have them between 7and 9 a.m.
Or it's impossible to start myday.
And then working out has beenextremely important.
But I think also working out interms of I've been it's been a
few months now that I'm tryingto take on the new sports, and I
feel like that also has beenhelping in terms of like I've
(49:13):
taken on tennis and martialarts, and so just not that only
Pilates kind of thing, andthat's been a very nice new uh
new opening to be honest.
SPEAKER_02 (49:24):
And I guess just to finish on that, it's like we put
so much pressure on our shoulderto always be like productive and
efficient, and you know, and Ijust turned 36 and I learned to
also and like uh listen to mynervous system.
And Nora told me that as well.
Like, when you want a break, youjust take a break.
(49:45):
Because in order to be creative,in order to create spray space
in your in your brain, if youkeep on pushing and pushing and
and trying to overachieve allthe time, you kind of like break
out of your own flow.
So if you want to take a day,walk around, people watch, just
do nothing, have a bath, read abook, it's gonna like the return
(50:06):
on investment on that is is muchmore important than just pushing
the boundaries of your energy atall times.
SPEAKER_01 (50:14):
Amazing.
Thank you both so much.
I mean, I think I always lovethis question because it just
kind of helps you understandexactly why people are
successful.
It tells you so much.
So thank you for your time.
Thank you for being on thecuration podcast.
And I can't wait for thisepisode to be out for everyone
(50:35):
to learn more about both of youand your incredible business,
the open crate.
SPEAKER_02 (50:40):
Thank you.
That was very fun, and thank youso much for giving us this
platform.
SPEAKER_01 (50:47):
Thank you for tuning in to this episode of the
Curation Podcast.
I hope you enjoyed this deepdive with Amina De Bisch and
Nora Monsour of the Open Crate.
What I love about their work ishow it blends tradition
innovation and ensuring that ourregion's stories from private
collections to cultural legaciesare preserved and elevated on a
global stage.
(51:08):
If you'd like to learn moreabout the Open Crate or follow
their journey, I'll be linkingtheir platforms in the episode
notes.
And as always, if you enjoyedthis conversation, please share
it, leave a review, and staytuned for more curated voices
from across art, fashion, andculture.
Thank you for listening.
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