December 19, 2024 • 56 mins
Heba Shunbo is an entrepreneur, interior designer, author, podcast host and so much more. Heba along with her sisters founded The Four Fat Ladies, and exited the company after 10 years, in parallel Heba navigated becoming a mother at 40, writing her tell all book “Mommy’ Happy Hour”, and her soaring interior design career. Heba with her sister Nira Shunbo host the "Who Said What Podcast" a hilariously unfiltered show on the realities of dating, family, sisterhood and everything else in between.
This episode is packed with funny anecdotes, wise words of wisdom and unapologetic truths from someone who’s lived all over the world but still calls the cozy Cairienne island of Zamalek home. Subscribe on YouTube for the full video episode and listen wherever you get your podcasts 🎧🤎☕️🎙️
- Discussing the personal journey from investment banking to entrepreneurship
- Examining the importance of morning routines and self-care practices
- Exploring the founding story of Four Fat Ladies and the challenges of family businesses
- Unpacking Heba's approach to interior design and home aesthetics
- Sharing insights on mental well-being and managing motherhood alongside careers
- Navigating the creative process behind podcasting and the power of authentic conversations
- Reflecting on the importance of surrounding oneself with positive energy and art
Check out Heba's latest project and her podcast 'Who Said What' with her sister Nira which will feature our founder Nour Hassan next season for more inspiring and funny conversations!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Action.
Welcome to the Curation, a showfor the culturally curious.
This is your host, noor Hassan.
Each week, I'll guide youthrough a curated edit of the
finest in art, fashion, design,culture, luxury, wellness, tech
and more.
This is your go-to space fordiscovering trailblazing ideas,
untold stories and meaningfulconversations with innovators
(00:24):
and creators who are shaping ourworld.
There's no gatekeeping here, sosit back, tune in and let's
discover only the best together.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
I'm going to shatter your dreams right now.
Okay, so anything at that pointworking was purely and some
women are going to kill me forsaying this, but for me the
working thing was just purely asa filler before I could get
married and have kids.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Oh my God, I love that you said that I need as
much downtime and alone time torecharge, and that is the most
random thing in the world, letme tell you, and you were a
beautiful host and I wasn'tthere for long I felt like
people weren't being verytruthful because I wasn't a
mother.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
you were really ballsy with it.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
I'm gonna use that word.
You just talk about things thatlike I feel like it's like
we're with you in the livingroom no, he's just not that into
you.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
It changes your life upside down.
Being a parent yeah, I was bigon routine.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
All right guys.
So right now I'm sitting withHeba Shombo, the incredible
entrepreneur podcast host.
Author Yani, so many things Idon't.
We can really start is oursignature question of our
curated podcast, which is who isHiba Shambu right now, today?
(01:53):
How would you describe yourselfin the Hordo?
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Okay, yeah, I find that honestly.
Thank you for having me on thispodcast.
I'm very excited about it firstof all.
Honestly, thank you for havingme on this podcast.
I am very excited about itfirst of all, and you have great
energy too, so it's like really.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
You as well.
The minute I said hi to you, Iwas like, oh, great energy,
which is so amazing.
But yeah, tell me Okay.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Honestly, I find that one of the most difficult
questions to answer, whensomebody tells me that I'm like
where am I now?
Well, throughout the years I'vedone so many different things,
so I think I'm not going to.
I would say I'm a work inprogress, because a lot of
people say you're 40s, you'vegot things figured out In your
(02:41):
50s.
You've definitely got thingsfigured out, and I am
approaching 50 and I don't thinkI've got anything figured out
in your 50s.
You've definitely got thingsfigured out and I am approaching
50.
And I don't think I've gotanything figured out yet.
So I think I'm just a work inprogress.
I guess A work in progress.
Definitely.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
I love that.
It's a scary statement whenthey say your 40s, you should
get things figured out.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Why do we say that, yeah, I don't know, and I'm
always kind of confused aboutthat because I'm almost 50.
And I'm always kind of confusedabout that because I'm almost
50 and I really don't think Ihave my shit together and I
really think that a lot ofthings I'm so confused about
still.
So when people tell me that I'mlike I'm even past my forties,
I'm going into my fifties, andI'm like, no, I don't, I don't
know, you know, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
I think some women have it figured out, um, but me
I'm actually nowhere near there.
Still, it's interesting, so we,I always like to start by kind
of getting a feel of who you areas a person.
But you can tell a lot about aperson by their morning routine.
I don't know why I justwhenever I ask someone that
question, it just tells me a lot.
I want to know what's a morningin Heba's household, like
what's your morning routine.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Okay, mornings are sacred for me.
I actually love morning.
Okay, morning time is soimportant because I sleep early.
How early?
Well, anywhere between recently, anywhere between 9.30 and
10.30, I'm in bed reading atleast.
Oh my God.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
You're like are you Egyptian I?
Speaker 2 (04:08):
know, are you an Egyptian?
But you know, for the longesttime I mean at one point my
husband and I worked oncompletely different schedules
because of that.
So I kind of when I try to belike 11, but he doesn't, he
lives between here and somewhereelse.
Okay, so he works here andsomewhere else.
Okay, so he works here andsomewhere else.
So when he's not here, I sleepearlier.
(04:28):
Okay.
When he's here, I sleepprobably a little bit later,
like probably around 11.
But he sleeps quite late, fair,you know, like I think that's
very typical here.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Yeah, same, like it is really common.
But I think sleeping early, Iwear a whoop and the founder
he's Egyptian and he saidrecently on some sort of
statistics that the Middle Easthas some of the latest sleeping
times, sleep times that they getrecorded, which is, so, I mean,
typical of our culture.
But okay, you sleep early.
I'm assuming you wake up early.
(04:57):
Yes, I wake up very early.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Okay, so I wake up.
Yeah, I wake, but I don't wakeup that early Actually given
that I sleep quite early.
I don't wake up that early, Ineed sleep.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
So I probably wake up around six, I would say Also
because my kids are kind ofyoung.
They're turning seven soon, sothey're up early.
Yeah, they're up probablyaround 6, 6.30.
I really wish I could wake upan hour before them, because,
but waking up at five I tried todo the whole 5am club thing,
the 5am club.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Yeah, I tried to let me tell you there's a.
I think I have a podcastepisode about that which I later
edited and was like yeah it's,it's not happening.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
No, no, I tried it for a while.
It's too much for me.
I realized before six myimmunity crashes so I cannot.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
I could be awake awake, kind of awake at 5 am,
yeah, but if I get out of bedit's like a whole different ball
game?
Speaker 2 (05:49):
no way.
So I stay in bed.
So I'm six, anywhere between 6and 6 30 I'm up.
Still early, very early yeah,yeah, it's early and even though
I feel like I don't even haveenough time in the morning
because, I'm I start my morningsreally, really slow, so I'm
kind of slow.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
I need two hours to kind of give us the details like
what are you?
What are you up to?
Like you got up, you're out ofbed, what are you doing?
Speaker 2 (06:10):
okay, first of all, my kids.
You know they go to schoolearly, at 7 30, so I'm with them
, I hang out with them, I talkto them, I chat with them,
because I don't have that muchtime during the day.
I'm quite busy, so that time II'm usually with them, have
breakfast, I have coffee or teaor whatever.
I don't have a set routine whenit comes to that.
I'm going to give you details.
So everybody has their morningcoffee.
(06:31):
Yes, my sister actually, she'slike.
I look forward to sleeping so Ican wake up and have my morning
coffee.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
I'm not like that I have.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
sometimes I do tea.
Okay, sometimes I do abulletproof coffee, which is
something you know.
A lot of people don't knowabout.
What's that?
What's bulletproof coffee?
A bulletproof coffee is acoffee mixed with ghee.
Oh, you do that or butter.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Yes, that's so interesting.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
I've been doing that for like I think, 12 years, but
on and off.
Oh, okay, like.
So when I have coffee, Iusually have it like that.
I usually don't have theadverse effects of caffeine,
because caffeine can reallyaffect me negatively Like
jitters yeah.
Not only that my mood, yourmood, it affects my mood.
Okay, but when I have it likethat, it's pretty good
Interesting.
I'm going to try it.
Yeah, you have to try it.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
I'll give you the recipe.
And what else?
Okay, you got them to school.
Yes, do you like?
Do any of like the the?
Speaker 2 (07:28):
the I want to say journaling, meditating, all of
this.
I do meditating sometimes, butI kind of I found that it does.
It works for me better when Imeditate at night before I go to
bed.
Okay, so I do that more now.
At night morning, I do tai chi.
Oh, I've just recently started,like in the past six months.
I love it.
Tai chi, yes, tai chi yoga.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
I used to be a yoga instructor as well, so I'm what
I love, this okay, so yourassistant didn't send me that
part.
A yoga instructor, come in along time ago you know what?
She probably was scared to addone more.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Yes, one more thing to the list that we're gonna
talk about, because guys getready like this is like a very
long list.
Yes, it's actually.
I used to be yoga, but I dosometimes yoga.
Okay, tai chi has become mygeneral because it's more gentle
and it's nice.
It's good for the joints, it's,it's nice, it's a nice way to
gently kind of get your bodygoing.
And where do you do tai chi?
(08:16):
At home, at home.
Okay, cool, recently I doeverything at home and I do
three times, three times a week.
I do also hit workoutsinteresting at home as well, at
home, which I never used to, bythe way, but now it's like
recently.
It makes my life easier, it'squicker, I can do it on my own
time and then I'm done, and thenyou know, I have breakfast and
just like kind of go yeah, andit's, and it's.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
I think it's like interesting.
If you want to get a hold oflike a pace in your life, I
think trying to do as manythings as possible at home
really helps with that.
Yeah, obviously.
Okay, interesting.
And so a quick one on yourskincare routine.
You said you're going to giveme some tips.
Guys, I cannot believe.
I cannot believe how amazingHiba looks.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Thank you, I can't believe it.
Thank you, if anybody who'slistened to my podcast knows
that I'm obsessed with thatwhole aging thing.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Okay, so you need to give me like the quickest like
skincare routine, like in themorning.
Do you like actually get up andlike do the whole cleanser and
na na?
Speaker 2 (09:11):
na or do you?
Speaker 1 (09:11):
just moisturize.
Are you simple?
I'm more simple.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
I do, I cleanse, okay , and then I put I always put
SPF, okay.
And recently I usually put thisthing called BB cream.
Do you know it?
Oh, it's like a.
It has a bit of a slight tintand that's good as you age,
because it kind of covers theblemishes and blotches a little
bit that kind of thing okay butI keep it simple.
But I do moisturize.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
I have to put eye cream spf during the day and at
night I always have to put creamokay, and it plans and all that
but I keep it simple.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
I don't wear much makeup, which I love I love that
.
Thank you seriously.
I love it when I see otherwomen wearing makeup.
I find it so nice and sofeminine and I'm like what I'm?
Speaker 1 (09:49):
a train wreck when I try to do it I'm like I'm I'm in
love with makeup and it's alittle crazy and my husband is
always like I like it more whenyou don't.
You know how they are like,okay, I like it more when you
don't have makeup on, but it'slike it's not for you, it's like
it's for me, yeah, it's for me.
So, but I love, I love yourlook.
So I'm just okay.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
So it's simple, it's nothing crazy, yeah, yeah, and
just like I put a bit of blushand and gloss, that's and gloss,
yeah, okay okay, so let's getinto the nitty-gritty with you.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
You have a incredible trajectory in terms of a career
, um, and I want to know.
Well, at the beginning youstarted off in finance correct
and investment banking, which ismajor, and whenever I meet a
woman in investment banking, Ireally think that you have a
character that probably I don'twant to say it's tougher than
(10:40):
most, but siani, akida, nick yyou're able to hold your own in
a room.
And not just that, I thinkinvestment banking what was
something that it really taughtyou in terms of your character
that you had to build?
Do you feel?
Speaker 2 (10:55):
I'm going to shatter your dreams right now.
Okay, so I will tell you that,doing investment banking okay, I
graduated in 98 from college.
Right At that time, not manypeople had any idea of what they
were really going to do.
Well, no, no.
Okay, a lot of people knewexactly what they were going to
do, but I really did not andthere wasn't many things to
(11:20):
choose from.
Right At that time, fair, I wasstudying in the States.
I came back here and I was likewhat am I going to do?
Speaker 1 (11:25):
I studied literature in college.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
I read okay I read that you studied literature,
which is really interesting andfrench comparative, so it's
french and english okay, and itwas really, really, really
interesting and I loved thewhole reading thing and I love
these things that are more kindof mind, expanding a little bit
let let's say so I came backhere and I said what am I going
to do?
I had no idea.
(11:47):
I said I'll get into bankingbecause I got like a couple of
offers and I got interviews andthings like that.
So I got into that.
Let me say that for me,anything at that point working
was purely and some women aren'tgoing to kill me for saying
this but for me the workingthing was just purely as a
(12:10):
filler before I could getmarried and have kids oh, my god
, I love that I know some peopleare gonna find that, but I was
98 and I was thinking so.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
So you were not working, you were not going into
it like I'm gonna be the careerwoman ham and my career, I
don't care about this.
You were like no, I'm just.
This is like a means to makemoney, obviously, and to
eventually I want to get marriedand and have kids, and have
kids and stay at home wow,literally I love.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
But I got into investment banking.
Honestly, I met a lot of nicepeople and I learned a lot.
Okay, um, I was I'm not reallygood at numbers and things like
that and finance, and so for meit was a good way to learn a few
things.
But it's not my, it wasn't.
I wasn't really talented at it.
I have, okay, I mean, if I'mgonna be very honest, it wasn't
my thing, okay, and you did youfind, did you figure this out?
Speaker 1 (13:01):
like, after how long did you feel like this is not my
thing?
I was there for three years.
Okay, that's not too long, likeit's long enough.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Well, you know it's not long when you're that age,
but as you get to my age you'relike, oh why did I waste three?
Years on that.
But anyways, it was fine.
I did that.
I met a few interesting people.
Some of them are my friendstill now and they're very
accomplished and very successfulbecause they're smarties.
But yeah, but that was it.
(13:33):
It was just at the time.
It was not like now.
You don't have very much choice.
You're younger.
It was a time where I think ourgeneration wasn't so self-aware
yeah, like you guys are.
Yes, which is admirable andquite it's.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
I mean, I don't know if we're the most self-aware
generation.
I mean I think, okay, I'm amillennial, let's say, but I
think there's more self-awarethan this, but at least I think
we felt that there were options.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Yes, you have more options.
I don't know what that means.
In 98, we didn't have anyoptions.
Okay, they were very limited.
It's like people were like,literally, it was kind of you're
going to be.
I had a lot of friends thatwere becoming doctors.
Right, I had a lot of friendsstudying to be architects,
bankers, bankers, and mostpeople in Egypt at that time
(14:30):
were bankers like.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
They were like going into investment banking in the
finance world and CIB and doingthe investment program and all
that.
So that's what that was, yeah,so, okay.
So you leave investment bankingand you pivoted many times and
we'll get into the interiordesign, because I really want to
get into this.
But first I want to quicklyjust go and touch on something
that for me, was a majormilestone in my life, which is
finding a really good brownie inEgypt like a delicious dessert
(14:52):
was a real problem at a time.
Let me tell you, it's true andyou are one of the co-founders
of the Four Fat Ladies guys,this brand, because anyone who
lives in egypt knows that atsome point in life, the brownies
that for fat ladies were likesome sort of like hidden
commodity the salted caramelbrownie was something that I
(15:13):
would go to the ends of theearth, for I would drive from
wherever I was in sehal to diplokilometers.
Grab a box and like we're hidingit, I mean everyone.
But anyway, tell me about thefounding story of the four fat
ladies very briefly, becausethis is very briefly.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
I'll tell you briefly because actually that we have.
We just did a podcast, mysister and I, about that.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Yes, because so you guys can listen to that for the
whole thing yes, it gives youit's.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
I think it's 30 minutes and because so many
people have asked us so manyquestions about that, it's like
the number one on people's mindsso I mean you co-founded the
four fat ladies with yoursisters right so I think the
main question I want to askregarding this, because it was a
great business.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
It really really had an impact on the market it's a
great brand it's a great brand.
Let me tell you like brandingvery controversial, very funny,
exactly, yeah, and you forgot.
You guys called it with thefour fat ladies you did that, so
, um, the products were good,and then you, you exited after
10 years.
Correct exactly.
My main question about it,since you guys can go listen to
(16:20):
the whole story, is how is itworking with family sisters?
Speaker 2 (16:26):
okay, no sugar coating, no sugar coating.
God, oh my god, it's tough,it's very tough.
It's tougher than anything, Ithink, because you kind of live
together, right, yeah, so whenyou have disagreements and it's,
it's very challenging to kindof be able to, because everybody
gets involved.
Your mother gets involved, yourfather gets involved and you're
(16:48):
like, well, what family?
Yeah, yeah, no, we'd havesituations like this.
Oh, but this is, you know, youknow, and I was like, oh my God,
this is just like too much forme.
Yeah, but it just it really wasvery draining.
I think, we had, of course wehad.
I think we were very, we werevery aligned on the vision of
the four fat ladies.
(17:09):
For sure, the three, of us,okay, and three sisters, we're
three sisters, but our oldestsister is just kind of she was
an investor.
She is just kind of she was aninvestor.
She what doesn't live here.
She hasn't lived here since 91,so, oh wow, she wasn't really
involved.
She gave, she helped out a lotwith the recipes.
We all did because we all bakefor that was the thing that we
collaborated on.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
We worked well on that front very well.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Uh, we knew exactly what products we wanted to do
and all of that, um, in terms ofbusiness, it was just near and
I running it.
I was doing operations andstores and marketing and
branding and all of that and Nirwas basically doing the
products and production and allof that.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
And so, like what?
What for you, like was the mostfulfilling part of running that
business for 10 years, asbecause it isn't, ultimately
it's a bakery it's one of, Ithink, the toughest fields to
get into.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
honestly, I'll tell you, fulfilling was basically
that.
I think we had a brand thatreally resonated with a lot of
people.
Yeah, a lot of people loved it.
It was a fresh brand, it wasout of the box, it was fun.
Yeah, uh, I think that in thatsense, it really reflected me
and my sisters I think so too Ithink, I think your energy was
there.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
It was fun, it was.
That's the fact of it, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (18:19):
yeah, I loved that part of it.
Uh, the only thing is that youknow, it's just the challenge.
I mean, it was fun because Ilearned so many new things also
um, I was.
I'd never been in the foodbusiness before, yeah, and let
me tell you that is one of themost challenging industries to
be in.
I, I exited.
I would never get into thatagain.
You would never get into theF&B.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Yeah, I mean, I can imagine and I want you to just
tell the audience, maybe like alittle anecdote of, for example,
one of the toughest moments inthe entrepreneurial, in that
entrepreneurial phase, and thatyou can remember.
I'll tell you.
Hmm, just like one thing thatyou remember.
That was like oh my God, Ican't believe we got through
that, for example, even if itwas emotionally.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Well, I'll tell you.
I'll tell you something thatcame up.
I find that in Egypt, when youstart something new, there's
it's always very challengingbecause everybody, if it's not
something they're familiar withoh yeah, they just they, they,
they push again Like they, they,they want to, you know.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Yeah, it's either they push a lot or there's a lot
of copying quickly.
But copying is flattering.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Absolutely Like.
I'll tell you this was a storyLike at the beginning, when we
first opened our first storeNEMMS Center we had people
coming in.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Oh my God, the NEMMS Center store.
I know remember.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
I designed that one as well, so good, anyways,
somebody came in and they werelike oh it was new for them.
They had not heard about thebrand.
So they're like, oh, this isamazing.
What do you, what do you guys?
What is the product that ismost popular?
I don't.
We said we think the saltedcaramel, you know, is something
that's really amazing.
You should try it.
They were like appalled.
(19:53):
They're like what salt oncaramel?
that's disgusting and I was likeyou know, it know it's not,
it's not a new thing.
People do the salted caramel.
It's.
It's kind of.
You know, we didn't reallyinvent it.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
We didn't invent it.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
but Exactly, I was like, no, no, give it a try.
No, no, no, oh, that's gross.
But they wouldn't.
And then, probably a few monthslater, we had somebody come in
and they're like, uh, you, youknow, we want the salted caramel
brand, but we have a commentabout it.
We're like what they're like?
It doesn't have enough salt.
I was like, oh my god, it's sofunny how people you know like
when it's something new, theyreject it.
(20:25):
And then, when there's goodfeedback about it, then all of a
sudden they loved it and nowit's like there isn't enough
salt in it.
You know what I?
Speaker 1 (20:32):
mean.
So it's like, literally, youguys, like you were shifting the
taste in the market, exactly inmany ways and I think I agree
with that.
I think one of the first times Ireally like absorbed the idea
of salted caramel was throughthe four fat ladies.
I mean, I grew up in saudiarabia, let's be real, like this
is a but yeah, I mean, it wasall very yeah, we didn't have
those cute boutique um bakeriesand things like that.
(20:53):
Now they do, now now we do, butyeah, I think it was just for
me.
I had to touch on this becauseI felt it was a revolutionary
moment in the bakery scene in.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Egypt.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
And ever since then there have been many, many
iterations of brilliant brands.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
So many, so many, so many.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
But you guys, I feel we're the OG, thank you.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
So there's that, but yeah, it's true.
A lot of people imitated usafter that with the salted
caramel, which, like you said wewere very flattered.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Can never forget it.
Okay, let's pivot, guys.
Okay, so I want to go intointerior design because right
now, guys, I was so we'refilming in my apartment and Hiba
said she liked one thing, and Iwas just beyond thrilled.
I'm like, thank you.
How in the world did you pivotto interior design?
I read in your bio that youtook a course or you took a
couple of courses, I'm assumingand you went from investment
(21:41):
banking to the F&B to interiordesign.
And yeah, just tell me, how didthat happen?
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Okay, well, interior design.
I've been in interior designsince 2006.
So it's been almost 20 years.
Very long time.
Yeah, I started the Four FatLadies after that actually.
But interior design wassomething I always I'm very much
of a home body.
So for me and also I say I willsay I draw my interior design
(22:07):
as as an introvert I'm a bit I'man introvert, so for me the
home is really important.
Yes, and I need as muchdowntime and alone time to
recharge as I do with, like ifI'm, if I spend time with people
like for an hour, I need anhour or two alone time to
recharge.
So for me home is so importantand that's why my aesthetic kind
(22:29):
of revolves around that.
It revolves around basically Idon't do anything crazy or wild
okay I don't.
I like things that are likeharmonious, timeless, so that
when you go see it in 10 yearstime it feels like it's still
relevant, right?
I did a lot of things at thebeginning where I felt, uh, when
(22:52):
I look back at them I'm like,oh that was why did I like?
like strong colors or strongkind of statement things.
I don't like that so much.
I realized that was like strongcolors or strong kind of
statement things.
I don't like that so much.
I realized that was like thefirst couple of years, or
probably three, four years,because I was kind of going
trying to go with the trend.
But I realized I like the moreneutral Zen spaces, kind of like
like you go in, it needs to bea sanctuary.
(23:13):
Yes, for me, that's how I like.
I like art, I like, you know,just like clean lines, um, soft
colors, and so I do that a lotwith my clients mainly.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
I want you to describe your aesthetic for me,
because I personally, I, when I,when we just met now, before
recording I, I told you that,guys, I went to a new year's
party at Hiba's place and thatis the most random thing in the
world, let me tell you, and youwere a beautiful host and I
wasn't there for long, but whatI do remember is it was just
(23:44):
felt like the coziest vibe.
I don't know if it was becauseyou got, you had like a candle
vibe going and it was new year'seve and everything was just
like a nice energy.
But, um, shout out to ourfriend karima, who ended up this
meet cute.
But in general, I felt whatyou're saying, which is that it
(24:04):
was just the most timeless, justnothing crazy, but at the same
time very, very bold.
So, yeah, what?
How would you describe youraesthetic personally?
Speaker 2 (24:15):
um, for me.
That's what it like.
I don't do.
I do like off whites, yeah, forlike walls.
I never do colors anymore.
Okay, um, I like simple, simple, functional, practical, but I
use a lot of neutral tones.
I'd like mostly beiges, and andfor me, art is very important.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Really.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Yeah, I find it Interesting.
I like and I collect art.
I really like to.
So even when I'm broke, I'lllike buy something, buy a piece
of art, especially by Egyptianartists.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
I was going to ask is it local artists, local as in
Egyptian here?
Yes, or really?
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Yeah, I love that.
I think there's so many goodones and I think, with time, at
the beginning I started offbuying small little things and
then now it's like I always likethe big paintings.
I like things that make astatement, so that's why my home
doesn't have anything crazy,but I'll have like a big
painting.
That's a bit random.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
What's a piece that you love in your home by an
artist.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
There's this one by Bahaguri Iconic, that is very,
but it's not his.
I mean, I like him, but I don'tnecessarily like his stuff, all
of his stuff, because it feelsvery repetitive, right, but this
one is really random and verydifferent from what his, what
his usual stuff.
It's this like face of a womanand it's, it's a bit, it's, it's
(25:37):
odd, it's not not the usualbahuri, so that's what I like
about it and like color.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Is it like one of the colorful ones or no, it's not
it's a lot of beiges with blackand kind of where did you find
that I?
Speaker 2 (25:49):
found it randomly somewhere.
I don't even remember where Ifound it but, I was like, and my
husband's like, she's horrible.
I was like I want her now so webought it.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
Okay, I loved it.
Maybe you should help me sourcesome art, because that's the
one thing that I have not gottento and I think it's the one
thing that can really definitelyelevate a home it also.
It gives it character, it givesit depth, yeah, you know, yeah
I agree, right now we're on mypodcast and you have a podcast.
Yes, well, actually you havehad iterations of podcasts
(26:21):
mommy's happy hour, that's truewhich we discussed, and I was a
listener.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
I'm not a mom, but I'm really impressed that you're
a listener, because I don'tthink I had many listeners, no,
but I was one of the listenersand I loved it.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
I thought it was I.
I personally thought it was.
You were really ballsy with it.
I'm gonna use that word becauseyou went in on a right topics
that nobody talks about remindme, I which topic like comes to
mind.
Can I tell you something?
I feel like in Egypt, the topicof how difficult motherhood is,
that's true, is an elusive onefor sure.
(26:55):
I mean on TikTokiktok.
If you go on tiktok, you willfind many creators really
digging deep with this topic.
But you also wrote a book, guys, about this topic.
Mommy's happy hour.
Thank you for gifting me thisbook.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna reallyread this.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
I hope you enjoy.
There are a lot of people thathave read it that aren't mothers
that enjoyed it.
No, I'm gonna.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
I'm gonna like and it matches everything today, so
I'm loving, loving it.
It's my neutral tones.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
But I feel like for even though you pivoted from
this, like why did you feel likethis was a topic that you could
?
I mean, where did you get thecourage to go in and talk about
all of the nitty gritties ofmotherhood?
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Okay, I think well, it goes back to when I wrote my
book.
Yeah, Okay.
So for me, I feel that I wrotethe book because for so many
years I was trying to getpregnant.
I was not able to get pregnant,so that's another story.
Yes, it took me like literallyprobably 12, 13 years to get
pregnant.
(27:51):
Finally, okay, for me, my wholethought process was like I have
to.
You know, all I want is like tohave kids, right?
Speaker 1 (27:59):
Yes, so I, so you had a whole 10 year journey with
infertility.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Yes, the whole thing, yeah, so basically I did IVF
like a zillion times if it waslike it and it was quite tough
time.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
And all my friends, cause, you know, I had my kids
at 40, right, and all my friendsbecause, you know, I had my
kids at 40, right and all myfriends had already had kids.
And I felt kind of left out.
I felt isolated and I heard andeverybody was telling me all
these things about motherhood.
So it just I really felt leftout.
So basically my whole thing wasthinking about like getting
pregnant, right.
(28:34):
And then when I had the kids Iwas like, oh my, my god, I never
thought about what I'm gonna doafter I have kids.
So finally I got pregnant atthe age of 40.
Wow, so it's like you, it'slike.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
It's like you were, you got pregnant at 40 and you
had kids.
You had twins.
No, yeah, okay, so that's likeanother, like that's another oh
yeah, it's, another big.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Thing.
Oh my god, yeah yeah but so.
So basically I had them, and at40, and then I like, oh my God,
and experiencing it is sounlike what anybody tells you,
so I felt it's such bullshitwhat people say about motherhood
.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
But why?
What did you feel like?
Was it too much sugarcoating?
Speaker 2 (29:13):
in the diet Sugarcoating.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Or too much, like there was not enough out there,
Osslan, I think it's too muchsugar.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
Well, there was not enough out there.
Also, I think it's too muchsugar coating.
I think nobody wants to tellyou really what it is, or you
know what I felt, to be honest,after the fact.
I felt like people weren'tbeing very truthful because I
wasn't a mother so they didn'twant me.
Oh interesting, they didn'twant me to be kind of part of
that discussion, I think.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
Yeah, or it's like you don't get it, so we're not.
So we're just going to tell youthe like surface layer yes, oh,
it's hard.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
I always got the, I always got the comments, which
were horrible, I think, and verynon-supportive.
This you don't know because youdon't have kids, of this you
don't know because you don'thave kids, oh, oh, you don't
know how it feels, you don'tknow what you're going to be
like because you don't have kids.
I got that all the time, allthe time, and I was like from
okay, like this would I be in,or from afar, like very close,
close, front.
Close and far.
(30:07):
Oh, close and far what do youmean?
well of course you don't know.
But I was like why would youtell me that I mean, I, you know
I want to have kids, and whywould you?
Oh, you don't know what you'regoing to be like because you
don't, you don't have kids.
You don't know what it feelslike.
Oh, okay, that's nice.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
And so that's why I kind of that was my kind of my
motivating factor for writingthe book because I was like,
okay, now I'm a mother, I knowwhat, but like the stereotypes,
urban legends, everything yes,exactly, I think that's so
(30:43):
interesting.
But you said that essentially,mommy's Happy Hour was a podcast
that you started, but you feltlike you don't want it to be all
focused on motherhood, so youstopped that podcast at some
point.
And now you have this amazingpodcast called who Said what
with Nira, which I'm alsofollowing.
Okay, good, but you guys arealso very unfiltered, like I
don't know how how are yougetting?
The courage to be thisunfiltered.
(31:03):
It's really scary like peopleare very vicious I know on
social media.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
Well listen, nira and I are polar opposites.
We're sisters, nira and I nearas my sister.
We're polar opposites, we'recompletely different people.
Literally, she is zero filter,zero, I'm considered unfiltered,
but not like nira.
Yeah, it has no filter, and Ithink that's what makes it
interesting, because we have twovery different characters, very
(31:28):
different points of view.
Okay, and it makes it fun, yes,the fact that the backlash
that's why I'm okay doing it inEnglish, because I think that
this, I think maybe some thingswould be maybe a little bit not
not so well received by maybethe more.
Trust me.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
Trust me yeah, not so well received by maybe trust me
.
Trust me, ayani and my podcast.
Like I have arabic words slipout and like listen, it's not
english or arabic, but it iswhat I am, which is this, and I
did a podcast tomorrow that wasfully arabic and I made the
amazing mistake of putting thaton tiktok.
And let me tell you, oh my god,did you get slammed, ripped to
shreds, slammed, slammed, and itwasn't even like that much of a
(32:11):
controversial topic.
But and who said what?
You guys sit together in yourhome and you're chilling it's
very cozy, I love that and youjust talk about things that,
like you know, I feel like it'slike we're with you in the
living room is that the is?
that what you wanted really forthat podcast.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
I wanted it to be casual and just kind of
unfiltered cozy vibe and I think, yeah, I think it seems to be
like when people come for thepodcast they really like it,
because we're like, literally,you know, no shoes on, curled up
on the sofa.
We ask just these randomquestions.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
We don't script, we don't we, because we want it to
be completely natural and, youknow, to flow completely
naturally what's a topic thatyou guys disagree on like big
time, that you talk aboutsometimes like that you and do
not agree on.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
We don't agree on much so we like the four fat
ladies.
There's a lot of disagreementthere on that podcast I thought
there was a lot of like tension.
There's tension there, so youcan listen to that one.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
There is a tension, there is also.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
um well, she's in the dating scene.
I'm not, oh yeah.
And so I have a very differentpoint of I mean, I'm kind of I
feel like such a dinosaur when,when I hear her stories, I'm
like what?
Speaker 1 (33:25):
Do you have any advice to give regarding the
dating scene?
Speaker 2 (33:28):
at all.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
By the way I.
Do you give her advice or likeI'm out.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
No, she doesn't like to take my advice, so I don't
give advice and I've learned tokind of let her.
She's also in her 40s, so she'sa big girl.
I let her do whatever she wants.
She wants to share with me,that's to share with me, that's
fine.
She doesn't want to, she's fine.
I'm I'm a little brutal when itcomes to advice.
I'm that.
You know that movie, uh, she'sjust not.
He's just not that into you.
(33:54):
Yeah, that was like my sayingall the time.
I'd be like no, he's just notthat into you.
They're like no, but I thinkhe's going through a rough time.
No, he's just not that hedoesn't like you, like I used to
and and people used to, but Iused to be a little brutal, but
not that I'm like no, no, but Ifeel like it shouldn't be that
much hard work.
(34:14):
Dating it should be fun.
That's the fun time, right,yeah, I mean you're married, I
mean the.
The dating is where you knowit's.
You know fun, you go out me.
I think.
As a woman, I feel like if aguy really wants you, you're
going to feel it, You're goingto know it right?
Speaker 1 (34:39):
I think I agree with you.
Look, I feel like fromlistening to your podcast, I can
sense that you are a sort ofI'm going to give it to you
straight person Like you're notgoing to be like oh, but maybe I
feel like you're the type ofperson where you would just say
what it is, and I think you'reright about that.
I want to circle back a littlebit.
So, on the who Said what?
Podcast, okay, you have guestsright, and you've spoken about
the four fat ladies.
You've spoken about many, manydifferent topics.
(35:00):
Do you ever speak aboutmotherhood or parenting on that
podcast or not?
Speaker 2 (35:07):
I think I mentioned things.
Every once in a while, I talk alot about motherhood.
Maybe I talk about marriage.
Those things are, you know,obviously they're my life, so
yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
I think what's really interesting about you and the
reason, one of the reasons Iwanted to have you as a guest is
because you can speak about somany different topics, like from
interior design toentrepreneurship, to parenting,
to all of these different things.
I think you're a good person toask, maybe regarding parenting
for some of my because a lot ofmy audience now are very young
moms for real, like my friendsOkay, so what's the best and
(35:41):
worst parenting advice thatyou've gotten, parenting advice
that you've gotten Best advice,I think, was from my sister, and
she said it's never the righttime to have kids, right, yeah?
Speaker 2 (35:58):
So if you always feel daunted by the fact that you're
like, oh, maybe, maybe in a fewyears, when I finished this,
trust me, in a few years you'regonna have other things and it's
not going to be a good timeeither.
It's never going to be theright time.
Right, Because it's always achallenging time and you always
want to do more things and youknow, it's never the right time.
That's one thing.
Okay, the worst parentingadvice I think advice in general
(36:20):
is bad from people because Ifeel like you're always you're a
different person.
Yeah, you parent differently.
Everybody parents their own way.
Your kids are different.
I always hated and I still tothis day.
I don't do it and I'm veryconscious of it, because a lot
of parents will always be likeoh no, it's easier for you
(36:42):
because you have twins, or it'seasier for you because you have
a boy and a girl.
You don't have two girls.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
Like.
There's always I find people dothat a lot here the easier
perspective, like giving you asort of like oh, but that's bad,
you know, like you're, you'renot mean, you have it easier oh,
like everybody wants to make itlook like they have it harder,
like it's hard for all of us.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
of course it's hard for mothers of twins.
There's some perks of havingtwins and some really downsides
of having twins, and the samething with having, you know,
kids that are separate.
You know everybody used to tellme, oh, but twins is easier
because they they're on the sameschedule, they eat the same
things.
I said they're not, they'retwins.
They're not clones of eachother.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
They have different personalities.
They're two people.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
So in that sense people have a misconception of
what twins are like.
Yeah, but I think it's just.
First of all, it changes yourlife upside down being a parent,
so you never know what.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
You cannot explain to somebody what it's like until
you're actually in it and likethe routine thing, like when
people talk about routines andschedules and no, no, what does
that become?
Speaker 2 (37:45):
yeah, I, I was big on routine.
I feel I was big on schedulewith the kids I wasn't at the
beginning, but the twins it wasa nightmare because the naps
were like like literally you'renot a parent so you don't know
this, but you'll see.
It's like they nap the firstsix to months to a year.
There's always napping, nappingnapping, napping.
So when you have, two and onenaps and the other one wakes up
(38:05):
and then the other one naps, andthen you're like I'm not I'm
gonna go insane.
I was like no, I have to be on aschedule so I, literally I
sleep train them from like fourmonths, that's insane.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
Yeah, yeah, wow.
Four months, yeah, okay.
So give us one pro and one conof having twins, like for the,
just in general.
That's your experience.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
Well, pro is great at my age to have twins, because
you're done, you're done,basically yeah yeah, I would
have loved to have more kids,but you know, at my age, you
know that's it, you're good yeah, um, the con of having twins is
that they're at the same stage,so you kind of need to give,
you need to spend alone timewith both of them.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
Yeah, and that's hard and it's difficult with both,
because it's well.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
This is one thing somebody told me about.
Pros like this is a pro and acon of having twins.
The pro of having twins is thatthey always have a play date.
They always have a partner toplay with.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
And the con of it is they always have somebody to
play with.
Do you know what I mean?
But it's like they, they canentertain each other for their,
so they're always together.
But then sometimes you're likeyou'll be in the house and
there'll be running around,running around, running,
screaming, screaming, runningaround and you're like, oh my
God, I wish they'd never ending.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
Exactly, it's a never ending.
That's scary, but but it'sreally cute.
It's really cute.
I keep it's cute.
Yeah, yeah, okay.
So why did you choosepodcasting?
I'm actually curious about that, since you're a podcaster, I'm
a podcaster.
Why did you choose podcastingout of everything you could have
done?
Like, what made you think I'mgoing to go buy two mics and sit
(39:39):
down and talk?
Speaker 2 (39:42):
I think initially because it was a little bit
challenging for me.
I'm I'm like I said, I thinkinitially because it was a
little bit challenging for me.
Like I said, I'm introverted,I'm a bit shy and I don't really
like to put myself out there.
So when, especially as I'vegotten older, after I had the
kids, that's when I said I'mgoing to put myself out there
because I don't like to haveregrets, Because you know,
that's like one of the thingslike the people that are on
their deathbed, that's the worstthing that they regret not
(40:15):
doing certain things that theywanted to do right.
So I said I'm not going to.
I'd love to anything that I feela little bit fearful of.
I kind of try to do now okay,and I thought it'd be nice to.
So that part is kind ofchallenging my own fears and, at
the same time, what's niceabout it is I'm able to connect
with other people.
I love connecting, like thisconversation.
It's nice to have one-on-oneconversations.
I find that really nice becauseyou really connect more on a
(40:37):
deeper level and they're moremeaningful.
So I thought this is a greatway to meet people and learn
from people and get inspired byother people what they're doing
so.
That's why I, why I did thepodcast.
Speaker 1 (40:48):
I love doing the podcast but it was out of your
comfort zone it is out of mycomfort zone oh okay, yeah, well
, I feel like you're a naturalon the mic like I feel like you,
you came in, you're like, youknow what it is well, yeah, I've
had practice.
Speaker 2 (40:58):
Now, that's the thing .
You know everything that's abit daunting at the beginning.
Once you can carry on and justpower through, you find that you
do learn a lot.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
You grow from it and you started in 2020, which is
when I started, by the way, hiba, and at the time, let me tell
you, nana, I had, I was I wouldsay I'm doing a podcast in Egypt
, even though it's it's an ageold medium.
And what's a podcast?
Yes, yes, yes, yes, I knowliterally what's a podcast.
(41:33):
I would enter like meetings,okay, like whatever.
What's a podcast?
I'm like, oh, it's like themodern day radio and I'm gonna.
I was trying to describe whatit is.
So it was still, by the way,kind of a pioneering move from
you, it's true, you know, evenas an entrepreneur, and at the
time you were solo and then youbrought on nira yeah, yeah, it's
true.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
At the time I remember people saying what,
like why people would call it apodcast.
To this day, really like no,this is our podcast I know, I
had such a hard time with it.
I was like, oh my god, this isjust ridiculous.
But I didn't have a socialmedia account.
I didn't do anything.
Yeah, I did nothing, I justrecorded audio and just and you
(42:08):
just put it out there.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
Okay, fair.
So we've spoken about you knowso many of your roles and you
said that you were also a yogainstructor at some point, which
is very interesting.
So, entrepreneurship, banking,interior design which is right
now and podcasting.
Do you believe in balance?
Like, where, how do you balance?
(42:31):
Because people talk about thisa lot and it's a topic that's
pretty controversial on socialmedia, and I'm going to ask you
as a mom, because that's yourreality Like, is there such a
thing as balancing work and homelife, motherhood and home life?
Speaker 2 (42:45):
motherhood.
It's tough, it's really toughnowadays, especially that it is
a little chaotic.
Our world right now, yes, andwe do a lot and we spend so much
time.
That's a major difference fromwhen I graduated in 98 until now
, like when we were doing ourjob.
I remember like when I wastelling you investment banking,
go to your job and that's it.
Nobody did anything else.
Speaker 1 (43:06):
Nobody multitasked.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
Nobody did a million different things, nobody had the
side hustle, nobody had thepassion project you know it's
like.
For now it's I don't know howto strike that balance.
I find it very difficult andI'm I have a hard time striking
that balance because, um, in away, as I get older, now, now I
(43:27):
don't spend so much timesocializing unless it's like
completely value-added or it'ssomething I like the more
intimate, like you know, smallgroups, yeah, that I feel like I
feel better, like after that.
It's like it's not an energydrainer, it's like it revives me
a little bit.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
So are you selective with like?
You're socializing, like?
Do you feel like, okay, unlessit's like a big event I have to
be at?
I'm sure you got invited tothings.
How do you say yes or no?
What's your filter?
Speaker 2 (43:55):
Yeah, I'm trying to work on that, but sometimes I'm
like no, no, but I find thatpeople.
But you know, I feel a littlebit bad because I do the whole
like bad, because I I do thewhole like yeah, I'll try to
come, and I just don't show up.
I feel so bad but I reallygenuinely my it's in my heart
that I really want to go, but Ijust I feel like I can't.
And small groups, I'm okay withthat.
(44:17):
Okay, big, big parties, bigevents.
I just I feel like a fish outof water.
I feel very okay, it'sinteresting like, I think.
Speaker 1 (44:25):
But do a lot of people underestimate, for
example, your job?
You're an interior think, bardo.
A lot of people underestimate,for example, your job.
You're an interior designer.
You deal with a lot of people,then, in podcasting, you speak a
lot, and then, after all that,and then there's your home life
and your kids, I feel like theenergy that's left, like you
said regarding side hustlesprobably is not a lot to
allocate to social life Right,but that's fair.
(44:46):
To allocate to social lifeRight, but that's fair.
Um, but do you actually believein a balance or do you think
that it's sort of likeeverything is a phase, like
every part of life is a phase,like now?
This is my podcast era.
Speaker 2 (44:56):
I think I think you might be right.
I think there's a phase Like Iget.
I go through phases where Ihave a lot of interior design
work Like I have four projectsat a time and then after I go
through a time where I don'thave that much.
So that's the time where I cankind of recharge.
I wish I was just saying thisactually yesterday.
I wish there would be thatbalance where all the time where
I have times because sometimesI feel like I'm burnt out, like
(45:20):
I feel like I've been to the,been through the ringer and back
and I feel like a hot mess interms of like everything
physically, mentally,emotionally and then at times
where it's more quiet, where Ifeel like, okay, now I can
recharge, but I don't.
I like to be busy all the time,so I don't like to be in like
too much of a low you know andwhat keeps you grounded?
Speaker 1 (45:43):
like, what do you think keeps you grounded with
everything going on and, likeyou said, which is a really good
point now that we all have sidehustles and passion projects
and social media, what keeps yougrounded?
As hiba for me, like a lot ofme, I feel like I go through
phases.
Sometimes working out keeps megrounded, I don't know.
Sometimes I don't want to workout and then something else, for
(46:04):
example, walking I don't know.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
I like listen.
What keeps me around isdefinitely that morning routine
of mine where I have, like thisquiet time.
I get time to read, I get timeto do a little bit of meditation
.
I'm always on some kind ofcourse or something like
something I'm learning or somekind of book I'm reading.
I feel like, um, just that metime, yeah, to focus, because I
(46:29):
am very much a wellness junkie,I'm very interested in these,
you know, alternative therapiesand all kinds of things that
keep you grounded.
So I'm always exploring.
But I think that, like duringthose times when I'm reading
this book, that feels like alittle bit enlightening or
that's about it, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (46:46):
So on the topic of wellness, wellness, and then
I'll ask you, like my last, uh,my last question um, what's a
wellness hack, now that you'rein your 40s, that you wish you
knew, like 10 years ago?
Or like, give me one, maybe.
Or, if you have two, great,like a wellness hack that you
(47:07):
feel like I wish I knew.
I wish I'd done that earlier.
Speaker 2 (47:09):
Well, for sure, the sleeping Sleeping well makes a
huge difference.
For me, though, I mean mywellness hack, I realized, and I
just I keep on going through.
It's like I'm kind of, you know, I go back and forth.
For me, the whole thing thewhole sleeping, eating properly
(47:35):
and exercising is very important, but I think 10 years ago it
wouldn't have made that much ofa difference, because when
you're younger, in your thirties, I could go out and do
everything and do everything,and I could recover quite
quickly.
Now I feel I don't recover asquickly and that's why I need to
be very mindful about what Iput my energy into In terms of I
think.
I think it's very difficult toanswer that question because 10
years ago, like you, like I justsaid 10 years ago, you might
(47:55):
not, that might not be a hackfor you when you're in your
thirties.
But, now, for me, I think sleepis super important.
Food is very important.
If I eat too much of something,it just throws me out of whack
and it like affects my mood andeverything.
But for me definitely sleepingmorning routine is so important
for me it's sacred actually.
Speaker 1 (48:14):
And do you have, like , an evening routine or not
really Like, but do?
This is something that I loveto know Do you have a wind down
routine or is it just kind oflike I'm going to Netflix and
chill?
Speaker 2 (48:24):
When I put the kids to bed I'm I'm gonna netflix and
chill really, but at the sametime I know that's balanced.
Yeah, that's good.
I I try now not to be on mycomputer because sometimes I
used to do that I should be onmy computer working and I don't
sleep that well and I get.
I'm wired but, the netflix.
It's chill, it helps you haveum blue light blockers.
Speaker 1 (48:41):
There's these glasses that you can get that are
called blue light blockers,where they block the light from
your.
I'll show you like phone orcomputer.
Speaker 2 (48:49):
I didn't know.
Speaker 1 (48:50):
And it helps you keep your circadian rhythm going.
Speaker 2 (48:54):
Oh, I gotta have that .
Speaker 1 (48:55):
Yeah, I'm gonna send you this.
This is really important.
This changed a lot for mebecause I'm 1000% a scroller
before bed.
Speaker 2 (49:02):
Oh my God, that's the worst I know.
I turn off my phone.
I meditate before I go to bed,so you meditate and turn off
your phone.
That's actually a really great.
Speaker 1 (49:16):
That's a good one to wind down from the day.
Okay, so my last question foryou on the Curated podcast is I
want your curation, I want theCurated by Hiba.
What are a couple of things I'mnot going to give you a number
that really, really elevate yourlife, and it can be anything
like from food to art to todesign elements, to habits, like
.
What are things that you, if I,if you would give me as new,
(49:37):
like a couple of things.
You have to do this, this, this, and it'll make your life a bit
better.
Speaker 2 (49:42):
Well for me.
I mean it's very specific to me, right?
Yeah, I mean it's your advice,it's your curation.
My advice is definitely you gotto stay away from the energy
drainers.
To me that's super important.
I don't have many people thatdrain my energy on a regular
(50:06):
basis, but basically when I do,I'm very aware of that.
Now you feel like I feel itright away, like I can sit with
somebody and I feel like after30 minutes I feel like I've been
sitting with them for 10 hours.
Yeah, and so I limit my timewith people like that for sure.
And you know, tony robbins saidyou're the average of the five
people you hang out with Ahundred percent.
(50:27):
I went to his UPW Unleash thePower Within.
Speaker 1 (50:31):
I went to that Did you go?
Speaker 2 (50:32):
Oh, my God it was amazing in Australia in 2019.
Speaker 1 (50:35):
Did you cry and laugh and do everything Like I must
have like if I go.
I'll probably cry.
Speaker 2 (50:40):
Yeah, but I don't.
I don't like to cry in public,I cry at home, but actually, no,
but this is funny because theUP, it was a great event, okay,
and there were people bawlingand I was like kind of like,
okay, this is a little intensefor me, but you know what was
fun?
We walked on fire.
That's crazy, yeah, and thatwas really cool because it
(51:02):
really tells you, I feel like itlike enlightens you about your
own personality.
Did you do it?
Yeah, I did it.
You walked on fire.
You walk on like burning coalsand it's long.
Actually, that's a mental game,yes, but it tells you.
It kind of tells you what, what?
I'll tell you what.
What's funny about that?
Because I felt like I walked alittle bit and then I was like I
(51:23):
freaked out and then I wentback and I noticed I kind of do
that.
I do that, let's say, like withmy podcast, the first podcast,
I do something and I really likeit.
But it's like I kind of feellike, okay, maybe this isn't for
me, and then I backtrack andthen I go back.
So you know what I mean.
So actually I felt that that'squite a mirror, reflects quite
well my character.
It's like a metaphor.
I love that.
(51:43):
Yeah, and then I just poweredthrough and you went through
yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (51:47):
Wow, that's crazy In Australia.
Yeah, oh my.
Speaker 2 (51:49):
God.
So that's my number one thing.
I think the energy drainers.
The energy drainers you need to, and there are some people in
your life that have to be inyour life, that are energy
drainers 100%, but you them, youdon't need to spend all this
time with them that's.
Speaker 1 (52:05):
That's a really good one.
It's a really hard one.
Yeah, I mean you need toactively be attuned, yeah you
need to set boundaries, which isreally important.
Speaker 2 (52:13):
I'm still still learning about that, yeah, but
so.
So at 40s I'm still not gonnabe able to be setting enough
boundaries you probably havemore boundaries than I am,
because in my day we don't know.
Speaker 1 (52:23):
But like I told you to do this, you do it.
I love that one.
Okay, so give us a few more,just from Hiba.
Speaker 2 (52:30):
That elevates my life .
I love art.
I love art.
I love the home For me.
I go into my space and it's sozen and it's like my sanctuary,
it's like where my life is and Ihave all my art and I don't
know I like.
For me, the home is important.
Speaker 1 (52:51):
Would you recommend that people invest in art on
their own?
Do you think it's best to havea designer like yourself helping
with that?
Because I think you can.
It's an investment, Like, let'sbe real, If you're getting, if
you're going to dive into theart world, it's.
It's not always a big one atthe beginning, but it's an
investment.
I think it's good to have somehelp because Listen.
Speaker 2 (53:12):
I think so.
I think some people just arenot really into art.
If you're into art and you knowwhat you like, I'm the type of
person that I know what I like.
When I see it, I like it.
But there's some people thatdon't necessarily and I think
some people.
Those people need help becauseyou want to find the right thing
for your space and that kind ofthere needs to be some kind of
(53:33):
love thing with you and thatpainting, so art.
Speaker 1 (53:36):
Okay, definitely.
One more thing.
Speaker 2 (53:40):
Well reading, I think , is super important.
I love to read.
I know a lot of people don'tsuper important.
Speaker 1 (53:50):
I'd love to read.
I know a lot of people don't,but I am an avid reader and you
read books or you read on akindle.
Speaker 2 (53:54):
No, I can't read on kindle I had this subscription
on and I read, but it's like Ihate that I feel like I'm doing
work.
I want to read a book when I'min my bed.
I can't like, just be like yeah, and I tried.
Speaker 1 (54:04):
You know it's weird.
I tried audiobooks and I do notremember a thing from the
audiobooks.
Yeah, listening to books youcan listen to a podcast, by the
way, that's a good point, butlistening to a book, it's true,
is not.
It's not the same as reading.
It's not the same as holding abook and reading it.
Speaker 2 (54:21):
No, also it kind of gets you out of the.
When I'm reading, I'm I guesseverybody is.
You're in your zone, you'rekind of making up what you're
reading, right, and that's I'm.
I agree with you fully.
I can't listen to audiobooks,but podcasts actually reading
and podcasts I find podcasts sonice, so good now, there's so
many good ones, and we're notjust saying that because we're
(54:41):
podcasters.
Yes, no, there's so manyinspiring ones and brilliant
ones, yeah, and I'm like, oh myGod.
And then sometimes I findmyself saying, yeah, I agree
with, and I'm like, okay, yeahthey don't hear me, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (54:53):
So I think, last thing, maybe give us one podcast
that you love, because I have apodcast, you have a podcast.
What's one podcast that youlike, that you enjoy?
Speaker 2 (55:01):
Well, at one point I used to always listen to School
of Greatness Lewis Howes.
It's really good.
I like him and I like his way.
His style is really nice.
There's also.
It's positive.
Speaker 1 (55:13):
I like it.
Speaker 2 (55:13):
It's positive, it's nice, it's easy, it's simple.
He keeps it simple, yeah.
Speaker 1 (55:19):
You know he doesn't go too.
You know too deep or toointense too complicated.
There are ones that get alittle too nitty gritty.
Speaker 2 (55:31):
Exactly, and there are some podcasts that are like
three hours long and I'm like,oh, there's no way.
And I actually do listen tothem and they're good.
Recently I've listened to acouple of episodes of uh diary
of a ceo.
Yes, it's good.
That one's very good I like ittoo yeah I like it too.
Speaker 1 (55:41):
It's a long form you got to be like committed, but
it's good.
I like it too well.
I think that's a wrap for ourepisode.
I thank you I'm so honored tohave you on my podcast thanks
for having me like I thinkyou're one of those people that
I really really look up to.
Oh my god really.
And I'm gonna read the book sothat I can prepare for what you
said I can't prepare for exactlyand we might, we, we have to
(56:04):
have you on our podcast yeah,and we'll do a podcast swap.
Speaker 2 (56:06):
So that'll be fun.
Speaker 1 (56:07):
And then we can do the other way around and guys
listen to who Said what withNeera and Hiba and get the book.
Yes and yeah.
Thank you so much for being onthe Curated Pod.
Speaker 2 (56:19):
Thank you for having me Love this episode.
Speaker 1 (56:20):
That's a wrap Thank you.
Action.
Welcome to the Curation, a showfor the culturally curious.
This is your host, noor Hassan.
Each week, I'll guide youthrough a curated edit of the
finest in art, fashion, design,culture, luxury, wellness, tech
and more.
This is your go-to space fordiscovering trailblazing ideas,
untold stories and meaningfulconversations with innovators
(00:24):
and creators who are shaping ourworld.
There's no gatekeeping here, sosit back, tune in and let's
discover only the best together.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
I'm going to shatter your dreams right now.
Okay, so anything at that pointworking was purely and some
women are going to kill me forsaying this, but for me the
working thing was just purely asa filler before I could get
married and have kids.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Oh my God, I love that you said that I need as
much downtime and alone time torecharge, and that is the most
random thing in the world, letme tell you, and you were a
beautiful host and I wasn'tthere for long I felt like
people weren't being verytruthful because I wasn't a
mother.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
you were really ballsy with it.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
I'm gonna use that word.
You just talk about things thatlike I feel like it's like
we're with you in the livingroom no, he's just not that into
you.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
It changes your life upside down.
Being a parent yeah, I was bigon routine.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
All right guys.
So right now I'm sitting withHeba Shombo, the incredible
entrepreneur podcast host.
Author Yani, so many things Idon't.
We can really start is oursignature question of our
curated podcast, which is who isHiba Shambu right now, today?
(01:53):
How would you describe yourselfin the Hordo?
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Okay, yeah, I find that honestly.
Thank you for having me on thispodcast.
I'm very excited about it firstof all.
Honestly, thank you for havingme on this podcast.
I am very excited about itfirst of all, and you have great
energy too, so it's like really.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
You as well.
The minute I said hi to you, Iwas like, oh, great energy,
which is so amazing.
But yeah, tell me Okay.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Honestly, I find that one of the most difficult
questions to answer, whensomebody tells me that I'm like
where am I now?
Well, throughout the years I'vedone so many different things,
so I think I'm not going to.
I would say I'm a work inprogress, because a lot of
people say you're 40s, you'vegot things figured out In your
(02:41):
50s.
You've definitely got thingsfigured out, and I am
approaching 50 and I don't thinkI've got anything figured out
in your 50s.
You've definitely got thingsfigured out and I am approaching
50.
And I don't think I've gotanything figured out yet.
So I think I'm just a work inprogress.
I guess A work in progress.
Definitely.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
I love that.
It's a scary statement whenthey say your 40s, you should
get things figured out.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Why do we say that, yeah, I don't know, and I'm
always kind of confused aboutthat because I'm almost 50.
And I'm always kind of confusedabout that because I'm almost
50 and I really don't think Ihave my shit together and I
really think that a lot ofthings I'm so confused about
still.
So when people tell me that I'mlike I'm even past my forties,
I'm going into my fifties, andI'm like, no, I don't, I don't
know, you know, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
I think some women have it figured out, um, but me
I'm actually nowhere near there.
Still, it's interesting, so we,I always like to start by kind
of getting a feel of who you areas a person.
But you can tell a lot about aperson by their morning routine.
I don't know why I justwhenever I ask someone that
question, it just tells me a lot.
I want to know what's a morningin Heba's household, like
what's your morning routine.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Okay, mornings are sacred for me.
I actually love morning.
Okay, morning time is soimportant because I sleep early.
How early?
Well, anywhere between recently, anywhere between 9.30 and
10.30, I'm in bed reading atleast.
Oh my God.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
You're like are you Egyptian I?
Speaker 2 (04:08):
know, are you an Egyptian?
But you know, for the longesttime I mean at one point my
husband and I worked oncompletely different schedules
because of that.
So I kind of when I try to belike 11, but he doesn't, he
lives between here and somewhereelse.
Okay, so he works here andsomewhere else.
Okay, so he works here andsomewhere else.
So when he's not here, I sleepearlier.
(04:28):
Okay.
When he's here, I sleepprobably a little bit later,
like probably around 11.
But he sleeps quite late, fair,you know, like I think that's
very typical here.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Yeah, same, like it is really common.
But I think sleeping early, Iwear a whoop and the founder
he's Egyptian and he saidrecently on some sort of
statistics that the Middle Easthas some of the latest sleeping
times, sleep times that they getrecorded, which is, so, I mean,
typical of our culture.
But okay, you sleep early.
I'm assuming you wake up early.
(04:57):
Yes, I wake up very early.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Okay, so I wake up.
Yeah, I wake, but I don't wakeup that early Actually given
that I sleep quite early.
I don't wake up that early, Ineed sleep.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
So I probably wake up around six, I would say Also
because my kids are kind ofyoung.
They're turning seven soon, sothey're up early.
Yeah, they're up probablyaround 6, 6.30.
I really wish I could wake upan hour before them, because,
but waking up at five I tried todo the whole 5am club thing,
the 5am club.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Yeah, I tried to let me tell you there's a.
I think I have a podcastepisode about that which I later
edited and was like yeah it's,it's not happening.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
No, no, I tried it for a while.
It's too much for me.
I realized before six myimmunity crashes so I cannot.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
I could be awake awake, kind of awake at 5 am,
yeah, but if I get out of bedit's like a whole different ball
game?
Speaker 2 (05:49):
no way.
So I stay in bed.
So I'm six, anywhere between 6and 6 30 I'm up.
Still early, very early yeah,yeah, it's early and even though
I feel like I don't even haveenough time in the morning
because, I'm I start my morningsreally, really slow, so I'm
kind of slow.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
I need two hours to kind of give us the details like
what are you?
What are you up to?
Like you got up, you're out ofbed, what are you doing?
Speaker 2 (06:10):
okay, first of all, my kids.
You know they go to schoolearly, at 7 30, so I'm with them
, I hang out with them, I talkto them, I chat with them,
because I don't have that muchtime during the day.
I'm quite busy, so that time II'm usually with them, have
breakfast, I have coffee or teaor whatever.
I don't have a set routine whenit comes to that.
I'm going to give you details.
So everybody has their morningcoffee.
(06:31):
Yes, my sister actually, she'slike.
I look forward to sleeping so Ican wake up and have my morning
coffee.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
I'm not like that I have.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
sometimes I do tea.
Okay, sometimes I do abulletproof coffee, which is
something you know.
A lot of people don't knowabout.
What's that?
What's bulletproof coffee?
A bulletproof coffee is acoffee mixed with ghee.
Oh, you do that or butter.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Yes, that's so interesting.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
I've been doing that for like I think, 12 years, but
on and off.
Oh, okay, like.
So when I have coffee, Iusually have it like that.
I usually don't have theadverse effects of caffeine,
because caffeine can reallyaffect me negatively Like
jitters yeah.
Not only that my mood, yourmood, it affects my mood.
Okay, but when I have it likethat, it's pretty good
Interesting.
I'm going to try it.
Yeah, you have to try it.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
I'll give you the recipe.
And what else?
Okay, you got them to school.
Yes, do you like?
Do any of like the the?
Speaker 2 (07:28):
the I want to say journaling, meditating, all of
this.
I do meditating sometimes, butI kind of I found that it does.
It works for me better when Imeditate at night before I go to
bed.
Okay, so I do that more now.
At night morning, I do tai chi.
Oh, I've just recently started,like in the past six months.
I love it.
Tai chi, yes, tai chi yoga.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
I used to be a yoga instructor as well, so I'm what
I love, this okay, so yourassistant didn't send me that
part.
A yoga instructor, come in along time ago you know what?
She probably was scared to addone more.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Yes, one more thing to the list that we're gonna
talk about, because guys getready like this is like a very
long list.
Yes, it's actually.
I used to be yoga, but I dosometimes yoga.
Okay, tai chi has become mygeneral because it's more gentle
and it's nice.
It's good for the joints, it's,it's nice, it's a nice way to
gently kind of get your bodygoing.
And where do you do tai chi?
(08:16):
At home, at home.
Okay, cool, recently I doeverything at home and I do
three times, three times a week.
I do also hit workoutsinteresting at home as well, at
home, which I never used to, bythe way, but now it's like
recently.
It makes my life easier, it'squicker, I can do it on my own
time and then I'm done, and thenyou know, I have breakfast and
just like kind of go yeah, andit's, and it's.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
I think it's like interesting.
If you want to get a hold oflike a pace in your life, I
think trying to do as manythings as possible at home
really helps with that.
Yeah, obviously.
Okay, interesting.
And so a quick one on yourskincare routine.
You said you're going to giveme some tips.
Guys, I cannot believe.
I cannot believe how amazingHiba looks.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Thank you, I can't believe it.
Thank you, if anybody who'slistened to my podcast knows
that I'm obsessed with thatwhole aging thing.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Okay, so you need to give me like the quickest like
skincare routine, like in themorning.
Do you like actually get up andlike do the whole cleanser and
na na?
Speaker 2 (09:11):
na or do you?
Speaker 1 (09:11):
just moisturize.
Are you simple?
I'm more simple.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
I do, I cleanse, okay , and then I put I always put
SPF, okay.
And recently I usually put thisthing called BB cream.
Do you know it?
Oh, it's like a.
It has a bit of a slight tintand that's good as you age,
because it kind of covers theblemishes and blotches a little
bit that kind of thing okay butI keep it simple.
But I do moisturize.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
I have to put eye cream spf during the day and at
night I always have to put creamokay, and it plans and all that
but I keep it simple.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
I don't wear much makeup, which I love I love that
.
Thank you seriously.
I love it when I see otherwomen wearing makeup.
I find it so nice and sofeminine and I'm like what I'm?
Speaker 1 (09:49):
a train wreck when I try to do it I'm like I'm I'm in
love with makeup and it's alittle crazy and my husband is
always like I like it more whenyou don't.
You know how they are like,okay, I like it more when you
don't have makeup on, but it'slike it's not for you, it's like
it's for me, yeah, it's for me.
So, but I love, I love yourlook.
So I'm just okay.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
So it's simple, it's nothing crazy, yeah, yeah, and
just like I put a bit of blushand and gloss, that's and gloss,
yeah, okay okay, so let's getinto the nitty-gritty with you.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
You have a incredible trajectory in terms of a career
, um, and I want to know.
Well, at the beginning youstarted off in finance correct
and investment banking, which ismajor, and whenever I meet a
woman in investment banking, Ireally think that you have a
character that probably I don'twant to say it's tougher than
(10:40):
most, but siani, akida, nick yyou're able to hold your own in
a room.
And not just that, I thinkinvestment banking what was
something that it really taughtyou in terms of your character
that you had to build?
Do you feel?
Speaker 2 (10:55):
I'm going to shatter your dreams right now.
Okay, so I will tell you that,doing investment banking okay, I
graduated in 98 from college.
Right At that time, not manypeople had any idea of what they
were really going to do.
Well, no, no.
Okay, a lot of people knewexactly what they were going to
do, but I really did not andthere wasn't many things to
(11:20):
choose from.
Right At that time, fair, I wasstudying in the States.
I came back here and I was likewhat am I going to do?
Speaker 1 (11:25):
I studied literature in college.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
I read okay I read that you studied literature,
which is really interesting andfrench comparative, so it's
french and english okay, and itwas really, really, really
interesting and I loved thewhole reading thing and I love
these things that are more kindof mind, expanding a little bit
let let's say so I came backhere and I said what am I going
to do?
I had no idea.
(11:47):
I said I'll get into bankingbecause I got like a couple of
offers and I got interviews andthings like that.
So I got into that.
Let me say that for me,anything at that point working
was purely and some women aren'tgoing to kill me for saying
this but for me the workingthing was just purely as a
(12:10):
filler before I could getmarried and have kids oh, my god
, I love that I know some peopleare gonna find that, but I was
98 and I was thinking so.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
So you were not working, you were not going into
it like I'm gonna be the careerwoman ham and my career, I
don't care about this.
You were like no, I'm just.
This is like a means to makemoney, obviously, and to
eventually I want to get marriedand and have kids, and have
kids and stay at home wow,literally I love.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
But I got into investment banking.
Honestly, I met a lot of nicepeople and I learned a lot.
Okay, um, I was I'm not reallygood at numbers and things like
that and finance, and so for meit was a good way to learn a few
things.
But it's not my, it wasn't.
I wasn't really talented at it.
I have, okay, I mean, if I'mgonna be very honest, it wasn't
my thing, okay, and you did youfind, did you figure this out?
Speaker 1 (13:01):
like, after how long did you feel like this is not my
thing?
I was there for three years.
Okay, that's not too long, likeit's long enough.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Well, you know it's not long when you're that age,
but as you get to my age you'relike, oh why did I waste three?
Years on that.
But anyways, it was fine.
I did that.
I met a few interesting people.
Some of them are my friendstill now and they're very
accomplished and very successfulbecause they're smarties.
But yeah, but that was it.
(13:33):
It was just at the time.
It was not like now.
You don't have very much choice.
You're younger.
It was a time where I think ourgeneration wasn't so self-aware
yeah, like you guys are.
Yes, which is admirable andquite it's.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
I mean, I don't know if we're the most self-aware
generation.
I mean I think, okay, I'm amillennial, let's say, but I
think there's more self-awarethan this, but at least I think
we felt that there were options.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Yes, you have more options.
I don't know what that means.
In 98, we didn't have anyoptions.
Okay, they were very limited.
It's like people were like,literally, it was kind of you're
going to be.
I had a lot of friends thatwere becoming doctors.
Right, I had a lot of friendsstudying to be architects,
bankers, bankers, and mostpeople in Egypt at that time
(14:30):
were bankers like.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
They were like going into investment banking in the
finance world and CIB and doingthe investment program and all
that.
So that's what that was, yeah,so, okay.
So you leave investment bankingand you pivoted many times and
we'll get into the interiordesign, because I really want to
get into this.
But first I want to quicklyjust go and touch on something
that for me, was a majormilestone in my life, which is
finding a really good brownie inEgypt like a delicious dessert
(14:52):
was a real problem at a time.
Let me tell you, it's true andyou are one of the co-founders
of the Four Fat Ladies guys,this brand, because anyone who
lives in egypt knows that atsome point in life, the brownies
that for fat ladies were likesome sort of like hidden
commodity the salted caramelbrownie was something that I
(15:13):
would go to the ends of theearth, for I would drive from
wherever I was in sehal to diplokilometers.
Grab a box and like we're hidingit, I mean everyone.
But anyway, tell me about thefounding story of the four fat
ladies very briefly, becausethis is very briefly.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
I'll tell you briefly because actually that we have.
We just did a podcast, mysister and I, about that.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Yes, because so you guys can listen to that for the
whole thing yes, it gives youit's.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
I think it's 30 minutes and because so many
people have asked us so manyquestions about that, it's like
the number one on people's mindsso I mean you co-founded the
four fat ladies with yoursisters right so I think the
main question I want to askregarding this, because it was a
great business.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
It really really had an impact on the market it's a
great brand it's a great brand.
Let me tell you like brandingvery controversial, very funny,
exactly, yeah, and you forgot.
You guys called it with thefour fat ladies you did that, so
, um, the products were good,and then you, you exited after
10 years.
Correct exactly.
My main question about it,since you guys can go listen to
(16:20):
the whole story, is how is itworking with family sisters?
Speaker 2 (16:26):
okay, no sugar coating, no sugar coating.
God, oh my god, it's tough,it's very tough.
It's tougher than anything, Ithink, because you kind of live
together, right, yeah, so whenyou have disagreements and it's,
it's very challenging to kindof be able to, because everybody
gets involved.
Your mother gets involved, yourfather gets involved and you're
(16:48):
like, well, what family?
Yeah, yeah, no, we'd havesituations like this.
Oh, but this is, you know, youknow, and I was like, oh my God,
this is just like too much forme.
Yeah, but it just it really wasvery draining.
I think, we had, of course wehad.
I think we were very, we werevery aligned on the vision of
the four fat ladies.
(17:09):
For sure, the three, of us,okay, and three sisters, we're
three sisters, but our oldestsister is just kind of she was
an investor.
She is just kind of she was aninvestor.
She what doesn't live here.
She hasn't lived here since 91,so, oh wow, she wasn't really
involved.
She gave, she helped out a lotwith the recipes.
We all did because we all bakefor that was the thing that we
collaborated on.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
We worked well on that front very well.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Uh, we knew exactly what products we wanted to do
and all of that, um, in terms ofbusiness, it was just near and
I running it.
I was doing operations andstores and marketing and
branding and all of that and Nirwas basically doing the
products and production and allof that.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
And so, like what?
What for you, like was the mostfulfilling part of running that
business for 10 years, asbecause it isn't, ultimately
it's a bakery it's one of, Ithink, the toughest fields to
get into.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
honestly, I'll tell you, fulfilling was basically
that.
I think we had a brand thatreally resonated with a lot of
people.
Yeah, a lot of people loved it.
It was a fresh brand, it wasout of the box, it was fun.
Yeah, uh, I think that in thatsense, it really reflected me
and my sisters I think so too Ithink, I think your energy was
there.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
It was fun, it was.
That's the fact of it, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (18:19):
yeah, I loved that part of it.
Uh, the only thing is that youknow, it's just the challenge.
I mean, it was fun because Ilearned so many new things also
um, I was.
I'd never been in the foodbusiness before, yeah, and let
me tell you that is one of themost challenging industries to
be in.
I, I exited.
I would never get into thatagain.
You would never get into theF&B.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Yeah, I mean, I can imagine and I want you to just
tell the audience, maybe like alittle anecdote of, for example,
one of the toughest moments inthe entrepreneurial, in that
entrepreneurial phase, and thatyou can remember.
I'll tell you.
Hmm, just like one thing thatyou remember.
That was like oh my God, Ican't believe we got through
that, for example, even if itwas emotionally.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Well, I'll tell you.
I'll tell you something thatcame up.
I find that in Egypt, when youstart something new, there's
it's always very challengingbecause everybody, if it's not
something they're familiar withoh yeah, they just they, they,
they push again Like they, they,they want to, you know.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Yeah, it's either they push a lot or there's a lot
of copying quickly.
But copying is flattering.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Absolutely Like.
I'll tell you this was a storyLike at the beginning, when we
first opened our first storeNEMMS Center we had people
coming in.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Oh my God, the NEMMS Center store.
I know remember.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
I designed that one as well, so good, anyways,
somebody came in and they werelike oh it was new for them.
They had not heard about thebrand.
So they're like, oh, this isamazing.
What do you, what do you guys?
What is the product that ismost popular?
I don't.
We said we think the saltedcaramel, you know, is something
that's really amazing.
You should try it.
They were like appalled.
(19:53):
They're like what salt oncaramel?
that's disgusting and I was likeyou know, it know it's not,
it's not a new thing.
People do the salted caramel.
It's.
It's kind of.
You know, we didn't reallyinvent it.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
We didn't invent it.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
but Exactly, I was like, no, no, give it a try.
No, no, no, oh, that's gross.
But they wouldn't.
And then, probably a few monthslater, we had somebody come in
and they're like, uh, you, youknow, we want the salted caramel
brand, but we have a commentabout it.
We're like what they're like?
It doesn't have enough salt.
I was like, oh my god, it's sofunny how people you know like
when it's something new, theyreject it.
(20:25):
And then, when there's goodfeedback about it, then all of a
sudden they loved it and nowit's like there isn't enough
salt in it.
You know what I?
Speaker 1 (20:32):
mean.
So it's like, literally, youguys, like you were shifting the
taste in the market, exactly inmany ways and I think I agree
with that.
I think one of the first times Ireally like absorbed the idea
of salted caramel was throughthe four fat ladies.
I mean, I grew up in saudiarabia, let's be real, like this
is a but yeah, I mean, it wasall very yeah, we didn't have
those cute boutique um bakeriesand things like that.
(20:53):
Now they do, now now we do, butyeah, I think it was just for
me.
I had to touch on this becauseI felt it was a revolutionary
moment in the bakery scene in.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Egypt.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
And ever since then there have been many, many
iterations of brilliant brands.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
So many, so many, so many.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
But you guys, I feel we're the OG, thank you.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
So there's that, but yeah, it's true.
A lot of people imitated usafter that with the salted
caramel, which, like you said wewere very flattered.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Can never forget it.
Okay, let's pivot, guys.
Okay, so I want to go intointerior design because right
now, guys, I was so we'refilming in my apartment and Hiba
said she liked one thing, and Iwas just beyond thrilled.
I'm like, thank you.
How in the world did you pivotto interior design?
I read in your bio that youtook a course or you took a
couple of courses, I'm assumingand you went from investment
(21:41):
banking to the F&B to interiordesign.
And yeah, just tell me, how didthat happen?
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Okay, well, interior design.
I've been in interior designsince 2006.
So it's been almost 20 years.
Very long time.
Yeah, I started the Four FatLadies after that actually.
But interior design wassomething I always I'm very much
of a home body.
So for me and also I say I willsay I draw my interior design
(22:07):
as as an introvert I'm a bit I'man introvert, so for me the
home is really important.
Yes, and I need as muchdowntime and alone time to
recharge as I do with, like ifI'm, if I spend time with people
like for an hour, I need anhour or two alone time to
recharge.
So for me home is so importantand that's why my aesthetic kind
(22:29):
of revolves around that.
It revolves around basically Idon't do anything crazy or wild
okay I don't.
I like things that are likeharmonious, timeless, so that
when you go see it in 10 yearstime it feels like it's still
relevant, right?
I did a lot of things at thebeginning where I felt, uh, when
(22:52):
I look back at them I'm like,oh that was why did I like?
like strong colors or strongkind of statement things.
I don't like that so much.
I realized that was like strongcolors or strong kind of
statement things.
I don't like that so much.
I realized that was like thefirst couple of years, or
probably three, four years,because I was kind of going
trying to go with the trend.
But I realized I like the moreneutral Zen spaces, kind of like
like you go in, it needs to bea sanctuary.
(23:13):
Yes, for me, that's how I like.
I like art, I like, you know,just like clean lines, um, soft
colors, and so I do that a lotwith my clients mainly.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
I want you to describe your aesthetic for me,
because I personally, I, when I,when we just met now, before
recording I, I told you that,guys, I went to a new year's
party at Hiba's place and thatis the most random thing in the
world, let me tell you, and youwere a beautiful host and I
wasn't there for long, but whatI do remember is it was just
(23:44):
felt like the coziest vibe.
I don't know if it was becauseyou got, you had like a candle
vibe going and it was new year'seve and everything was just
like a nice energy.
But, um, shout out to ourfriend karima, who ended up this
meet cute.
But in general, I felt whatyou're saying, which is that it
(24:04):
was just the most timeless, justnothing crazy, but at the same
time very, very bold.
So, yeah, what?
How would you describe youraesthetic personally?
Speaker 2 (24:15):
um, for me.
That's what it like.
I don't do.
I do like off whites, yeah, forlike walls.
I never do colors anymore.
Okay, um, I like simple, simple, functional, practical, but I
use a lot of neutral tones.
I'd like mostly beiges, and andfor me, art is very important.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Really.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Yeah, I find it Interesting.
I like and I collect art.
I really like to.
So even when I'm broke, I'lllike buy something, buy a piece
of art, especially by Egyptianartists.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
I was going to ask is it local artists, local as in
Egyptian here?
Yes, or really?
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Yeah, I love that.
I think there's so many goodones and I think, with time, at
the beginning I started offbuying small little things and
then now it's like I always likethe big paintings.
I like things that make astatement, so that's why my home
doesn't have anything crazy,but I'll have like a big
painting.
That's a bit random.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
What's a piece that you love in your home by an
artist.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
There's this one by Bahaguri Iconic, that is very,
but it's not his.
I mean, I like him, but I don'tnecessarily like his stuff, all
of his stuff, because it feelsvery repetitive, right, but this
one is really random and verydifferent from what his, what
his usual stuff.
It's this like face of a womanand it's, it's a bit, it's, it's
(25:37):
odd, it's not not the usualbahuri, so that's what I like
about it and like color.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Is it like one of the colorful ones or no, it's not
it's a lot of beiges with blackand kind of where did you find
that I?
Speaker 2 (25:49):
found it randomly somewhere.
I don't even remember where Ifound it but, I was like, and my
husband's like, she's horrible.
I was like I want her now so webought it.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
Okay, I loved it.
Maybe you should help me sourcesome art, because that's the
one thing that I have not gottento and I think it's the one
thing that can really definitelyelevate a home it also.
It gives it character, it givesit depth, yeah, you know, yeah
I agree, right now we're on mypodcast and you have a podcast.
Yes, well, actually you havehad iterations of podcasts
(26:21):
mommy's happy hour, that's truewhich we discussed, and I was a
listener.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
I'm not a mom, but I'm really impressed that you're
a listener, because I don'tthink I had many listeners, no,
but I was one of the listenersand I loved it.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
I thought it was I.
I personally thought it was.
You were really ballsy with it.
I'm gonna use that word becauseyou went in on a right topics
that nobody talks about remindme, I which topic like comes to
mind.
Can I tell you something?
I feel like in Egypt, the topicof how difficult motherhood is,
that's true, is an elusive onefor sure.
(26:55):
I mean on TikTokiktok.
If you go on tiktok, you willfind many creators really
digging deep with this topic.
But you also wrote a book, guys, about this topic.
Mommy's happy hour.
Thank you for gifting me thisbook.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna reallyread this.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
I hope you enjoy.
There are a lot of people thathave read it that aren't mothers
that enjoyed it.
No, I'm gonna.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
I'm gonna like and it matches everything today, so
I'm loving, loving it.
It's my neutral tones.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
But I feel like for even though you pivoted from
this, like why did you feel likethis was a topic that you could
?
I mean, where did you get thecourage to go in and talk about
all of the nitty gritties ofmotherhood?
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Okay, I think well, it goes back to when I wrote my
book.
Yeah, Okay.
So for me, I feel that I wrotethe book because for so many
years I was trying to getpregnant.
I was not able to get pregnant,so that's another story.
Yes, it took me like literallyprobably 12, 13 years to get
pregnant.
(27:51):
Finally, okay, for me, my wholethought process was like I have
to.
You know, all I want is like tohave kids, right?
Speaker 1 (27:59):
Yes, so I, so you had a whole 10 year journey with
infertility.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Yes, the whole thing, yeah, so basically I did IVF
like a zillion times if it waslike it and it was quite tough
time.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
And all my friends, cause, you know, I had my kids
at 40, right, and all my friendsbecause, you know, I had my
kids at 40, right and all myfriends had already had kids.
And I felt kind of left out.
I felt isolated and I heard andeverybody was telling me all
these things about motherhood.
So it just I really felt leftout.
So basically my whole thing wasthinking about like getting
pregnant, right.
(28:34):
And then when I had the kids Iwas like, oh my, my god, I never
thought about what I'm gonna doafter I have kids.
So finally I got pregnant atthe age of 40.
Wow, so it's like you, it'slike.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
It's like you were, you got pregnant at 40 and you
had kids.
You had twins.
No, yeah, okay, so that's likeanother, like that's another oh
yeah, it's, another big.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Thing.
Oh my god, yeah yeah but so.
So basically I had them, and at40, and then I like, oh my God,
and experiencing it is sounlike what anybody tells you,
so I felt it's such bullshitwhat people say about motherhood
.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
But why?
What did you feel like?
Was it too much sugarcoating?
Speaker 2 (29:13):
in the diet Sugarcoating.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Or too much, like there was not enough out there,
Osslan, I think it's too muchsugar.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
Well, there was not enough out there.
Also, I think it's too muchsugar coating.
I think nobody wants to tellyou really what it is, or you
know what I felt, to be honest,after the fact.
I felt like people weren'tbeing very truthful because I
wasn't a mother so they didn'twant me.
Oh interesting, they didn'twant me to be kind of part of
that discussion, I think.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
Yeah, or it's like you don't get it, so we're not.
So we're just going to tell youthe like surface layer yes, oh,
it's hard.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
I always got the, I always got the comments, which
were horrible, I think, and verynon-supportive.
This you don't know because youdon't have kids, of this you
don't know because you don'thave kids, oh, oh, you don't
know how it feels, you don'tknow what you're going to be
like because you don't have kids.
I got that all the time, allthe time, and I was like from
okay, like this would I be in,or from afar, like very close,
close, front.
Close and far.
(30:07):
Oh, close and far what do youmean?
well of course you don't know.
But I was like why would youtell me that I mean, I, you know
I want to have kids, and whywould you?
Oh, you don't know what you'regoing to be like because you
don't, you don't have kids.
You don't know what it feelslike.
Oh, okay, that's nice.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
And so that's why I kind of that was my kind of my
motivating factor for writingthe book because I was like,
okay, now I'm a mother, I knowwhat, but like the stereotypes,
urban legends, everything yes,exactly, I think that's so
(30:43):
interesting.
But you said that essentially,mommy's Happy Hour was a podcast
that you started, but you feltlike you don't want it to be all
focused on motherhood, so youstopped that podcast at some
point.
And now you have this amazingpodcast called who Said what
with Nira, which I'm alsofollowing.
Okay, good, but you guys arealso very unfiltered, like I
don't know how how are yougetting?
The courage to be thisunfiltered.
(31:03):
It's really scary like peopleare very vicious I know on
social media.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
Well listen, nira and I are polar opposites.
We're sisters, nira and I nearas my sister.
We're polar opposites, we'recompletely different people.
Literally, she is zero filter,zero, I'm considered unfiltered,
but not like nira.
Yeah, it has no filter, and Ithink that's what makes it
interesting, because we have twovery different characters, very
(31:28):
different points of view.
Okay, and it makes it fun, yes,the fact that the backlash
that's why I'm okay doing it inEnglish, because I think that
this, I think maybe some thingswould be maybe a little bit not
not so well received by maybethe more.
Trust me.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
Trust me yeah, not so well received by maybe trust me
.
Trust me, ayani and my podcast.
Like I have arabic words slipout and like listen, it's not
english or arabic, but it iswhat I am, which is this, and I
did a podcast tomorrow that wasfully arabic and I made the
amazing mistake of putting thaton tiktok.
And let me tell you, oh my god,did you get slammed, ripped to
shreds, slammed, slammed, and itwasn't even like that much of a
(32:11):
controversial topic.
But and who said what?
You guys sit together in yourhome and you're chilling it's
very cozy, I love that and youjust talk about things that,
like you know, I feel like it'slike we're with you in the
living room is that the is?
that what you wanted really forthat podcast.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
I wanted it to be casual and just kind of
unfiltered cozy vibe and I think, yeah, I think it seems to be
like when people come for thepodcast they really like it,
because we're like, literally,you know, no shoes on, curled up
on the sofa.
We ask just these randomquestions.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
We don't script, we don't we, because we want it to
be completely natural and, youknow, to flow completely
naturally what's a topic thatyou guys disagree on like big
time, that you talk aboutsometimes like that you and do
not agree on.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
We don't agree on much so we like the four fat
ladies.
There's a lot of disagreementthere on that podcast I thought
there was a lot of like tension.
There's tension there, so youcan listen to that one.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
There is a tension, there is also.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
um well, she's in the dating scene.
I'm not, oh yeah.
And so I have a very differentpoint of I mean, I'm kind of I
feel like such a dinosaur when,when I hear her stories, I'm
like what?
Speaker 1 (33:25):
Do you have any advice to give regarding the
dating scene?
Speaker 2 (33:28):
at all.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
By the way I.
Do you give her advice or likeI'm out.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
No, she doesn't like to take my advice, so I don't
give advice and I've learned tokind of let her.
She's also in her 40s, so she'sa big girl.
I let her do whatever she wants.
She wants to share with me,that's to share with me, that's
fine.
She doesn't want to, she's fine.
I'm I'm a little brutal when itcomes to advice.
I'm that.
You know that movie, uh, she'sjust not.
He's just not that into you.
(33:54):
Yeah, that was like my sayingall the time.
I'd be like no, he's just notthat into you.
They're like no, but I thinkhe's going through a rough time.
No, he's just not that hedoesn't like you, like I used to
and and people used to, but Iused to be a little brutal, but
not that I'm like no, no, but Ifeel like it shouldn't be that
much hard work.
(34:14):
Dating it should be fun.
That's the fun time, right,yeah, I mean you're married, I
mean the.
The dating is where you knowit's.
You know fun, you go out me.
I think.
As a woman, I feel like if aguy really wants you, you're
going to feel it, You're goingto know it right?
Speaker 1 (34:39):
I think I agree with you.
Look, I feel like fromlistening to your podcast, I can
sense that you are a sort ofI'm going to give it to you
straight person Like you're notgoing to be like oh, but maybe I
feel like you're the type ofperson where you would just say
what it is, and I think you'reright about that.
I want to circle back a littlebit.
So, on the who Said what?
Podcast, okay, you have guestsright, and you've spoken about
the four fat ladies.
You've spoken about many, manydifferent topics.
(35:00):
Do you ever speak aboutmotherhood or parenting on that
podcast or not?
Speaker 2 (35:07):
I think I mentioned things.
Every once in a while, I talk alot about motherhood.
Maybe I talk about marriage.
Those things are, you know,obviously they're my life, so
yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
I think what's really interesting about you and the
reason, one of the reasons Iwanted to have you as a guest is
because you can speak about somany different topics, like from
interior design toentrepreneurship, to parenting,
to all of these different things.
I think you're a good person toask, maybe regarding parenting
for some of my because a lot ofmy audience now are very young
moms for real, like my friendsOkay, so what's the best and
(35:41):
worst parenting advice thatyou've gotten, parenting advice
that you've gotten Best advice,I think, was from my sister, and
she said it's never the righttime to have kids, right, yeah?
Speaker 2 (35:58):
So if you always feel daunted by the fact that you're
like, oh, maybe, maybe in a fewyears, when I finished this,
trust me, in a few years you'regonna have other things and it's
not going to be a good timeeither.
It's never going to be theright time.
Right, Because it's always achallenging time and you always
want to do more things and youknow, it's never the right time.
That's one thing.
Okay, the worst parentingadvice I think advice in general
(36:20):
is bad from people because Ifeel like you're always you're a
different person.
Yeah, you parent differently.
Everybody parents their own way.
Your kids are different.
I always hated and I still tothis day.
I don't do it and I'm veryconscious of it, because a lot
of parents will always be likeoh no, it's easier for you
(36:42):
because you have twins, or it'seasier for you because you have
a boy and a girl.
You don't have two girls.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
Like.
There's always I find people dothat a lot here the easier
perspective, like giving you asort of like oh, but that's bad,
you know, like you're, you'renot mean, you have it easier oh,
like everybody wants to make itlook like they have it harder,
like it's hard for all of us.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
of course it's hard for mothers of twins.
There's some perks of havingtwins and some really downsides
of having twins, and the samething with having, you know,
kids that are separate.
You know everybody used to tellme, oh, but twins is easier
because they they're on the sameschedule, they eat the same
things.
I said they're not, they'retwins.
They're not clones of eachother.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
They have different personalities.
They're two people.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
So in that sense people have a misconception of
what twins are like.
Yeah, but I think it's just.
First of all, it changes yourlife upside down being a parent,
so you never know what.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
You cannot explain to somebody what it's like until
you're actually in it and likethe routine thing, like when
people talk about routines andschedules and no, no, what does
that become?
Speaker 2 (37:45):
yeah, I, I was big on routine.
I feel I was big on schedulewith the kids I wasn't at the
beginning, but the twins it wasa nightmare because the naps
were like like literally you'renot a parent so you don't know
this, but you'll see.
It's like they nap the firstsix to months to a year.
There's always napping, nappingnapping, napping.
So when you have, two and onenaps and the other one wakes up
(38:05):
and then the other one naps, andthen you're like I'm not I'm
gonna go insane.
I was like no, I have to be on aschedule so I, literally I
sleep train them from like fourmonths, that's insane.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
Yeah, yeah, wow.
Four months, yeah, okay.
So give us one pro and one conof having twins, like for the,
just in general.
That's your experience.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
Well, pro is great at my age to have twins, because
you're done, you're done,basically yeah yeah, I would
have loved to have more kids,but you know, at my age, you
know that's it, you're good yeah, um, the con of having twins is
that they're at the same stage,so you kind of need to give,
you need to spend alone timewith both of them.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
Yeah, and that's hard and it's difficult with both,
because it's well.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
This is one thing somebody told me about.
Pros like this is a pro and acon of having twins.
The pro of having twins is thatthey always have a play date.
They always have a partner toplay with.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
And the con of it is they always have somebody to
play with.
Do you know what I mean?
But it's like they, they canentertain each other for their,
so they're always together.
But then sometimes you're likeyou'll be in the house and
there'll be running around,running around, running,
screaming, screaming, runningaround and you're like, oh my
God, I wish they'd never ending.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
Exactly, it's a never ending.
That's scary, but but it'sreally cute.
It's really cute.
I keep it's cute.
Yeah, yeah, okay.
So why did you choosepodcasting?
I'm actually curious about that, since you're a podcaster, I'm
a podcaster.
Why did you choose podcastingout of everything you could have
done?
Like, what made you think I'mgoing to go buy two mics and sit
(39:39):
down and talk?
Speaker 2 (39:42):
I think initially because it was a little bit
challenging for me.
I'm I'm like I said, I thinkinitially because it was a
little bit challenging for me.
Like I said, I'm introverted,I'm a bit shy and I don't really
like to put myself out there.
So when, especially as I'vegotten older, after I had the
kids, that's when I said I'mgoing to put myself out there
because I don't like to haveregrets, Because you know,
that's like one of the thingslike the people that are on
their deathbed, that's the worstthing that they regret not
(40:15):
doing certain things that theywanted to do right.
So I said I'm not going to.
I'd love to anything that I feela little bit fearful of.
I kind of try to do now okay,and I thought it'd be nice to.
So that part is kind ofchallenging my own fears and, at
the same time, what's niceabout it is I'm able to connect
with other people.
I love connecting, like thisconversation.
It's nice to have one-on-oneconversations.
I find that really nice becauseyou really connect more on a
(40:37):
deeper level and they're moremeaningful.
So I thought this is a greatway to meet people and learn
from people and get inspired byother people what they're doing
so.
That's why I, why I did thepodcast.
Speaker 1 (40:48):
I love doing the podcast but it was out of your
comfort zone it is out of mycomfort zone oh okay, yeah, well
, I feel like you're a naturalon the mic like I feel like you,
you came in, you're like, youknow what it is well, yeah, I've
had practice.
Speaker 2 (40:58):
Now, that's the thing .
You know everything that's abit daunting at the beginning.
Once you can carry on and justpower through, you find that you
do learn a lot.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
You grow from it and you started in 2020, which is
when I started, by the way, hiba, and at the time, let me tell
you, nana, I had, I was I wouldsay I'm doing a podcast in Egypt
, even though it's it's an ageold medium.
And what's a podcast?
Yes, yes, yes, yes, I knowliterally what's a podcast.
(41:33):
I would enter like meetings,okay, like whatever.
What's a podcast?
I'm like, oh, it's like themodern day radio and I'm gonna.
I was trying to describe whatit is.
So it was still, by the way,kind of a pioneering move from
you, it's true, you know, evenas an entrepreneur, and at the
time you were solo and then youbrought on nira yeah, yeah, it's
true.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
At the time I remember people saying what,
like why people would call it apodcast.
To this day, really like no,this is our podcast I know, I
had such a hard time with it.
I was like, oh my god, this isjust ridiculous.
But I didn't have a socialmedia account.
I didn't do anything.
Yeah, I did nothing, I justrecorded audio and just and you
(42:08):
just put it out there.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
Okay, fair.
So we've spoken about you knowso many of your roles and you
said that you were also a yogainstructor at some point, which
is very interesting.
So, entrepreneurship, banking,interior design which is right
now and podcasting.
Do you believe in balance?
Like, where, how do you balance?
(42:31):
Because people talk about thisa lot and it's a topic that's
pretty controversial on socialmedia, and I'm going to ask you
as a mom, because that's yourreality Like, is there such a
thing as balancing work and homelife, motherhood and home life?
Speaker 2 (42:45):
motherhood.
It's tough, it's really toughnowadays, especially that it is
a little chaotic.
Our world right now, yes, andwe do a lot and we spend so much
time.
That's a major difference fromwhen I graduated in 98 until now
, like when we were doing ourjob.
I remember like when I wastelling you investment banking,
go to your job and that's it.
Nobody did anything else.
Speaker 1 (43:06):
Nobody multitasked.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
Nobody did a million different things, nobody had the
side hustle, nobody had thepassion project you know it's
like.
For now it's I don't know howto strike that balance.
I find it very difficult andI'm I have a hard time striking
that balance because, um, in away, as I get older, now, now I
(43:27):
don't spend so much timesocializing unless it's like
completely value-added or it'ssomething I like the more
intimate, like you know, smallgroups, yeah, that I feel like I
feel better, like after that.
It's like it's not an energydrainer, it's like it revives me
a little bit.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
So are you selective with like?
You're socializing, like?
Do you feel like, okay, unlessit's like a big event I have to
be at?
I'm sure you got invited tothings.
How do you say yes or no?
What's your filter?
Speaker 2 (43:55):
Yeah, I'm trying to work on that, but sometimes I'm
like no, no, but I find thatpeople.
But you know, I feel a littlebit bad because I do the whole
like bad, because I I do thewhole like yeah, I'll try to
come, and I just don't show up.
I feel so bad but I reallygenuinely my it's in my heart
that I really want to go, but Ijust I feel like I can't.
And small groups, I'm okay withthat.
(44:17):
Okay, big, big parties, bigevents.
I just I feel like a fish outof water.
I feel very okay, it'sinteresting like, I think.
Speaker 1 (44:25):
But do a lot of people underestimate, for
example, your job?
You're an interior think, bardo.
A lot of people underestimate,for example, your job.
You're an interior designer.
You deal with a lot of people,then, in podcasting, you speak a
lot, and then, after all that,and then there's your home life
and your kids, I feel like theenergy that's left, like you
said regarding side hustlesprobably is not a lot to
allocate to social life Right,but that's fair.
(44:46):
To allocate to social lifeRight, but that's fair.
Um, but do you actually believein a balance or do you think
that it's sort of likeeverything is a phase, like
every part of life is a phase,like now?
This is my podcast era.
Speaker 2 (44:56):
I think I think you might be right.
I think there's a phase Like Iget.
I go through phases where Ihave a lot of interior design
work Like I have four projectsat a time and then after I go
through a time where I don'thave that much.
So that's the time where I cankind of recharge.
I wish I was just saying thisactually yesterday.
I wish there would be thatbalance where all the time where
I have times because sometimesI feel like I'm burnt out, like
(45:20):
I feel like I've been to the,been through the ringer and back
and I feel like a hot mess interms of like everything
physically, mentally,emotionally and then at times
where it's more quiet, where Ifeel like, okay, now I can
recharge, but I don't.
I like to be busy all the time,so I don't like to be in like
too much of a low you know andwhat keeps you grounded?
Speaker 1 (45:43):
like, what do you think keeps you grounded with
everything going on and, likeyou said, which is a really good
point now that we all have sidehustles and passion projects
and social media, what keeps yougrounded?
As hiba for me, like a lot ofme, I feel like I go through
phases.
Sometimes working out keeps megrounded, I don't know.
Sometimes I don't want to workout and then something else, for
(46:04):
example, walking I don't know.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
I like listen.
What keeps me around isdefinitely that morning routine
of mine where I have, like thisquiet time.
I get time to read, I get timeto do a little bit of meditation
.
I'm always on some kind ofcourse or something like
something I'm learning or somekind of book I'm reading.
I feel like, um, just that metime, yeah, to focus, because I
(46:29):
am very much a wellness junkie,I'm very interested in these,
you know, alternative therapiesand all kinds of things that
keep you grounded.
So I'm always exploring.
But I think that, like duringthose times when I'm reading
this book, that feels like alittle bit enlightening or
that's about it, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (46:46):
So on the topic of wellness, wellness, and then
I'll ask you, like my last, uh,my last question um, what's a
wellness hack, now that you'rein your 40s, that you wish you
knew, like 10 years ago?
Or like, give me one, maybe.
Or, if you have two, great,like a wellness hack that you
(47:07):
feel like I wish I knew.
I wish I'd done that earlier.
Speaker 2 (47:09):
Well, for sure, the sleeping Sleeping well makes a
huge difference.
For me, though, I mean mywellness hack, I realized, and I
just I keep on going through.
It's like I'm kind of, you know, I go back and forth.
For me, the whole thing thewhole sleeping, eating properly
(47:35):
and exercising is very important, but I think 10 years ago it
wouldn't have made that much ofa difference, because when
you're younger, in your thirties, I could go out and do
everything and do everything,and I could recover quite
quickly.
Now I feel I don't recover asquickly and that's why I need to
be very mindful about what Iput my energy into In terms of I
think.
I think it's very difficult toanswer that question because 10
years ago, like you, like I justsaid 10 years ago, you might
(47:55):
not, that might not be a hackfor you when you're in your
thirties.
But, now, for me, I think sleepis super important.
Food is very important.
If I eat too much of something,it just throws me out of whack
and it like affects my mood andeverything.
But for me definitely sleepingmorning routine is so important
for me it's sacred actually.
Speaker 1 (48:14):
And do you have, like , an evening routine or not
really Like, but do?
This is something that I loveto know Do you have a wind down
routine or is it just kind oflike I'm going to Netflix and
chill?
Speaker 2 (48:24):
When I put the kids to bed I'm I'm gonna netflix and
chill really, but at the sametime I know that's balanced.
Yeah, that's good.
I I try now not to be on mycomputer because sometimes I
used to do that I should be onmy computer working and I don't
sleep that well and I get.
I'm wired but, the netflix.
It's chill, it helps you haveum blue light blockers.
Speaker 1 (48:41):
There's these glasses that you can get that are
called blue light blockers,where they block the light from
your.
I'll show you like phone orcomputer.
Speaker 2 (48:49):
I didn't know.
Speaker 1 (48:50):
And it helps you keep your circadian rhythm going.
Speaker 2 (48:54):
Oh, I gotta have that .
Speaker 1 (48:55):
Yeah, I'm gonna send you this.
This is really important.
This changed a lot for mebecause I'm 1000% a scroller
before bed.
Speaker 2 (49:02):
Oh my God, that's the worst I know.
I turn off my phone.
I meditate before I go to bed,so you meditate and turn off
your phone.
That's actually a really great.
Speaker 1 (49:16):
That's a good one to wind down from the day.
Okay, so my last question foryou on the Curated podcast is I
want your curation, I want theCurated by Hiba.
What are a couple of things I'mnot going to give you a number
that really, really elevate yourlife, and it can be anything
like from food to art to todesign elements, to habits, like
.
What are things that you, if I,if you would give me as new,
(49:37):
like a couple of things.
You have to do this, this, this, and it'll make your life a bit
better.
Speaker 2 (49:42):
Well for me.
I mean it's very specific to me, right?
Yeah, I mean it's your advice,it's your curation.
My advice is definitely you gotto stay away from the energy
drainers.
To me that's super important.
I don't have many people thatdrain my energy on a regular
(50:06):
basis, but basically when I do,I'm very aware of that.
Now you feel like I feel itright away, like I can sit with
somebody and I feel like after30 minutes I feel like I've been
sitting with them for 10 hours.
Yeah, and so I limit my timewith people like that for sure.
And you know, tony robbins saidyou're the average of the five
people you hang out with Ahundred percent.
(50:27):
I went to his UPW Unleash thePower Within.
Speaker 1 (50:31):
I went to that Did you go?
Speaker 2 (50:32):
Oh, my God it was amazing in Australia in 2019.
Speaker 1 (50:35):
Did you cry and laugh and do everything Like I must
have like if I go.
I'll probably cry.
Speaker 2 (50:40):
Yeah, but I don't.
I don't like to cry in public,I cry at home, but actually, no,
but this is funny because theUP, it was a great event, okay,
and there were people bawlingand I was like kind of like,
okay, this is a little intensefor me, but you know what was
fun?
We walked on fire.
That's crazy, yeah, and thatwas really cool because it
(51:02):
really tells you, I feel like itlike enlightens you about your
own personality.
Did you do it?
Yeah, I did it.
You walked on fire.
You walk on like burning coalsand it's long.
Actually, that's a mental game,yes, but it tells you.
It kind of tells you what, what?
I'll tell you what.
What's funny about that?
Because I felt like I walked alittle bit and then I was like I
(51:23):
freaked out and then I wentback and I noticed I kind of do
that.
I do that, let's say, like withmy podcast, the first podcast,
I do something and I really likeit.
But it's like I kind of feellike, okay, maybe this isn't for
me, and then I backtrack andthen I go back.
So you know what I mean.
So actually I felt that that'squite a mirror, reflects quite
well my character.
It's like a metaphor.
I love that.
(51:43):
Yeah, and then I just poweredthrough and you went through
yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (51:47):
Wow, that's crazy In Australia.
Yeah, oh my.
Speaker 2 (51:49):
God.
So that's my number one thing.
I think the energy drainers.
The energy drainers you need to, and there are some people in
your life that have to be inyour life, that are energy
drainers 100%, but you them, youdon't need to spend all this
time with them that's.
Speaker 1 (52:05):
That's a really good one.
It's a really hard one.
Yeah, I mean you need toactively be attuned, yeah you
need to set boundaries, which isreally important.
Speaker 2 (52:13):
I'm still still learning about that, yeah, but
so.
So at 40s I'm still not gonnabe able to be setting enough
boundaries you probably havemore boundaries than I am,
because in my day we don't know.
Speaker 1 (52:23):
But like I told you to do this, you do it.
I love that one.
Okay, so give us a few more,just from Hiba.
Speaker 2 (52:30):
That elevates my life .
I love art.
I love art.
I love the home For me.
I go into my space and it's sozen and it's like my sanctuary,
it's like where my life is and Ihave all my art and I don't
know I like.
For me, the home is important.
Speaker 1 (52:51):
Would you recommend that people invest in art on
their own?
Do you think it's best to havea designer like yourself helping
with that?
Because I think you can.
It's an investment, Like, let'sbe real, If you're getting, if
you're going to dive into theart world, it's.
It's not always a big one atthe beginning, but it's an
investment.
I think it's good to have somehelp because Listen.
Speaker 2 (53:12):
I think so.
I think some people just arenot really into art.
If you're into art and you knowwhat you like, I'm the type of
person that I know what I like.
When I see it, I like it.
But there's some people thatdon't necessarily and I think
some people.
Those people need help becauseyou want to find the right thing
for your space and that kind ofthere needs to be some kind of
(53:33):
love thing with you and thatpainting, so art.
Speaker 1 (53:36):
Okay, definitely.
One more thing.
Speaker 2 (53:40):
Well reading, I think , is super important.
I love to read.
I know a lot of people don'tsuper important.
Speaker 1 (53:50):
I'd love to read.
I know a lot of people don't,but I am an avid reader and you
read books or you read on akindle.
Speaker 2 (53:54):
No, I can't read on kindle I had this subscription
on and I read, but it's like Ihate that I feel like I'm doing
work.
I want to read a book when I'min my bed.
I can't like, just be like yeah, and I tried.
Speaker 1 (54:04):
You know it's weird.
I tried audiobooks and I do notremember a thing from the
audiobooks.
Yeah, listening to books youcan listen to a podcast, by the
way, that's a good point, butlistening to a book, it's true,
is not.
It's not the same as reading.
It's not the same as holding abook and reading it.
Speaker 2 (54:21):
No, also it kind of gets you out of the.
When I'm reading, I'm I guesseverybody is.
You're in your zone, you'rekind of making up what you're
reading, right, and that's I'm.
I agree with you fully.
I can't listen to audiobooks,but podcasts actually reading
and podcasts I find podcasts sonice, so good now, there's so
many good ones, and we're notjust saying that because we're
(54:41):
podcasters.
Yes, no, there's so manyinspiring ones and brilliant
ones, yeah, and I'm like, oh myGod.
And then sometimes I findmyself saying, yeah, I agree
with, and I'm like, okay, yeahthey don't hear me, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (54:53):
So I think, last thing, maybe give us one podcast
that you love, because I have apodcast, you have a podcast.
What's one podcast that youlike, that you enjoy?
Speaker 2 (55:01):
Well, at one point I used to always listen to School
of Greatness Lewis Howes.
It's really good.
I like him and I like his way.
His style is really nice.
There's also.
It's positive.
Speaker 1 (55:13):
I like it.
Speaker 2 (55:13):
It's positive, it's nice, it's easy, it's simple.
He keeps it simple, yeah.
Speaker 1 (55:19):
You know he doesn't go too.
You know too deep or toointense too complicated.
There are ones that get alittle too nitty gritty.
Speaker 2 (55:31):
Exactly, and there are some podcasts that are like
three hours long and I'm like,oh, there's no way.
And I actually do listen tothem and they're good.
Recently I've listened to acouple of episodes of uh diary
of a ceo.
Yes, it's good.
That one's very good I like ittoo yeah I like it too.
Speaker 1 (55:41):
It's a long form you got to be like committed, but
it's good.
I like it too well.
I think that's a wrap for ourepisode.
I thank you I'm so honored tohave you on my podcast thanks
for having me like I thinkyou're one of those people that
I really really look up to.
Oh my god really.
And I'm gonna read the book sothat I can prepare for what you
said I can't prepare for exactlyand we might, we, we have to
(56:04):
have you on our podcast yeah,and we'll do a podcast swap.
Speaker 2 (56:06):
So that'll be fun.
Speaker 1 (56:07):
And then we can do the other way around and guys
listen to who Said what withNeera and Hiba and get the book.
Yes and yeah.
Thank you so much for being onthe Curated Pod.
Speaker 2 (56:19):
Thank you for having me Love this episode.
Speaker 1 (56:20):
That's a wrap Thank you.
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