April 27, 2025 • 49 mins
What happens when a fourth-generation Syrian American decides to revive and reimagine classical Arabic music traditions from New York City? Faraj Abyad takes us on a mesmerizing journey through the microtonal landscapes of Tarab and Maqam theory while breaking industry norms with his original compositions.
Raised in a household where the legendary recordings of Sabah Fakhri played alongside his formal studies in jazz and Western music, Abyad developed a unique musical identity that bridges cultural worlds. As he explains, "I found that microtones in this music kind of took me to a state of Tarab or took me to a state of ecstasy that we can't find in Western music." This fascination with the emotional power of Arabic music theory became the foundation for his compositional approach.
Unlike many contemporary Arabic musicians who primarily cover the works of icons like Um Kulthum or Fayrouz, Abyad is dedicated to creating new classical Arabic compositions. We wpeak about him recording at New York's legendary Power Station Studios and working with The Originals and Oswalds Mills Audio.
The conversation reveals fascinating details about his album cover featuring Jawad Salim's rare painting "In the Presence of the Caliph" (unseen in color for 70 years) and his upcoming performance at The Metropolitan Museum of Art.
Listen now to discover how Faraj Abyad is creating new pathways for classical Arabic music in the modern world—and why his work matters for the future of this rich tradition.
Follow @thecurationpod and @hunaliving for more conversations exploring the intersection of art, culture, and innovation.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
This season of the Curation podcast continues with
a live recording from Art Dubai2025, in partnership with Huna
Living.
As part of ARM Holding, hunacreates communities rooted in
culture, craftsmanship andwell-being.
In this conversation, farajAbiyad delves into the art of
sound, the beauty of Arabicmusic and his collaboration with
(00:29):
the originals, oswald SmillsAudio and His Excellency Sultan
al-Qasimi for his album Cover.
Faraj shares with us abeautiful excerpt of music at
the beginning of this episode aswell as at the end.
So I hope you enjoy and withoutfurther ado, this is my
conversation with Faraj Abiyad.
We're proud to launch thisspecial episode of the Curation
(00:58):
Podcast in collaboration withHuna Living, recorded live at
Art Dubai 2025.
As part of ARM Holding, hunaredefines elevated living
through lifestyle-focusedcommunities that blend artistry,
design and sustainability.
In this talk, afra Dahiri, aliHussain Luta and Janet Bellotto
explore the intersections of art, education and contemporary
(01:22):
pedagogies in the UAE and beyond.
We speak about theirexperiences as artists,
educators and mentors and theimportance of education and art
in the contemporary landscapeand as part of a greater
ecosystem.
Without further ado, this is mytalk with Afra, alia and Janet.
I hope you enjoy and I lookforward to sharing more of these
(01:43):
conversations with you on theCuration Podcast.
Hello everyone, my name is NoorHassan and I am the founder of
the Curation Podcast, and thisentire conversation with Faraj
an exclusive, if you will willbe found on my podcast.
You can listen to it, you canwatch it and you will will be
(02:04):
found on my podcast.
You can listen to it, you canwatch it and you can hear the
music again at any point.
Thank you so much for startingwith that incredible rendition.
We really, really enjoyed itand I think it was the perfect,
perfect beginning to our talkand I'm so happy we have met
before, so we're friends, andthis will be just a casual
conversation, kind of divinginto Faraj's incredible journey.
(02:30):
I'm looking forward to you all,for you all, to hear it.
The talk is called the Art ofSound and I believe nothing
really exemplifies the art ofsound as much as Faraj put it
when he was speaking to me andexplaining his work Arabic music
and kind of the art of how thatis composed.
So I want to start with aquestion that I mean I believe I
always ask all my guests whatwas the point of kind of
(02:53):
inception for you with music?
Where did it start?
Speaker 2 (02:57):
That's a great question.
Well, you know, I grew up in ahome of Syrians from Aleppo but
living in New York, and it'sknown that the Aleppian Syrians,
the Syrians from Halab, theyhave a very strong musical
tradition of the Mouashah andQudud and you know the name of
(03:19):
my album is Qublatu Shi'rin, soit's all about Qasa'id classical
Arabic poetry and Fusha.
So I grew up with thistradition and though I'm
actually fourth generationSyrian so my family has been in
America for a hundred years, butour family very much kept this
tradition of Qudud, halabiya andSyrian music.
(03:41):
And growing up I was studyingjazz and classical music and
Western music, as I grew up inan environment without many
Syrians.
But when my grandfather wouldplay these old records of Sabah
Fakhri at home I would be soinspired by the sound, this
interesting maqam.
We call this Arabic music theorymaqam, and it has something
(04:04):
called rubatoun, which is inEnglish.
We call this Arabic musictheory maqam, and it has
something called ruba'ton, whichis in English we call it
microtones.
So I found that this microtoneand this microtonal music kind
of took me to a state of tarabor took me to a state of ecstasy
that we can't find in Westernmusic.
So I was very inspired by thissound and I was you.
(04:26):
I was maybe 10 or 11 years oldwhen I started to investigate
the shari'i music, the easternmusic, and then my journey
started there, and then that'swhat led me to here.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
I love how you mentioned all of those elements
and we'll get more into them.
I asked you when I met you.
I was very curious to know doyou consider yourself a singer,
a composer, a musician?
And your answer was veryinteresting to me because I
think perhaps you're all threeat the moment, or always.
Can you tell us a little bitmore about how that came to be?
Speaker 2 (05:02):
yes, so.
So I sing, I compose, I playthis instrument called the oud,
and this came to be.
I guess it evolved.
I started off as a singer andthen I was always fascinated by
the great composers of ourculture, like Mohamed Abdel
Wahab, riyad al-Sombati andwe'll talk about them later.
(05:25):
But I always felt that in ourwhen we spoke about this the
other day that in our scene ofclassical Arabic music it's very
common to cover music from thepast.
Most very high-level Arabicsingers that you meet they're
singing Um Kalsum beautifully orFayruz beautifully and they
(05:45):
have the abilities to evencompose, but the industry isn't
asking them to and they're notasking them to compose in that
genre.
Maybe they're asking them tocompose in pop or something more
easy listening.
But this tradition of Tarab isso beautiful that I believe
strongly that it should becontinued and it should be
(06:06):
developed and taken to its ownplace.
So that's the inspiration formy work and that's what led me
to become a composer and,because of my maqam training
from a young age, this helped mea lot to be able to take the
library of Tarab songs that Ihave in my mind from classic
singers like Waddi Asafi, fayruz, um Kalsoum, mohamed Abdel
(06:30):
Wahab, and to kind of combineall these things with my western
background as well to create myown sound that's personal for
me, that I love.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Thank you.
So, since our talk today iscalled the Art of Sound, I think
one of the most interestingthings that you said was
regarding the microtones thatare available and kind of only
accessible through Arabic music.
It's the reason why, when youlisten to Arabic music, you go
into kind of a state of trance.
There is some sort of feelingof being very much on a
(07:04):
different level.
But I want to understand andreally because I think it's
important to get technical withyou, if not who else what is the
importance of the tools and theinstruments that you use not
only to record but to projectthat sound, because we do want
to get into the originals andtheir story with the incredible
(07:25):
speakers that we'll be usingtoday as well, but I want to
know how important is it torecord and play your music on
the correct equipment?
Speaker 2 (07:38):
So, to answer your question, I would actually like
to answer it with a littlepresentation that I prepared,
with my friend, of course, andso we can actually hear the
music and how we're producing it.
So, if you can, please go tothe next slide.
So this is a room in New Yorkin the Metropolitan Museum of
(08:02):
Art called the Damascus Room,and in this room you can see, if
you look very closely, there'slike Arabic calligraphy from an
Andalusian poet namedLisan-ed-Din ibn Khatib.
And the museum approached methey know I'm the only Arabic
composer living in New York, soI guess I was their only choice.
(08:23):
They said can you compose thispoetry on the walls?
And if you go to the next slide, please, you can see this
zoomed in version of the poetry.
It says so.
(08:45):
They requested for me to composethis work and we recorded it in
one of the greatest studios inthe world, in Power Station
Studios in New York, where NoraJones records her albums today.
Bob Dylan recorded most of hismost famous works in this studio
, and the reason why this studiois so sacred for musicians is
(09:06):
because of the vintage recordingequipment.
Recording equipment is likekhashab al-awud it gets better
with time.
The sound of the awud getsbetter with time, so this is the
kind of equipment we'rerecording on and I'll just play
you a snippet of this recorded.
It actually hasn't beenmastered yet, so you're hearing
a very raw version of it, andI'll just play you a snippet of
this recorded it actually ithasn't been mastered yet, so
(09:27):
you're hearing like a very rawversion of it.
But I would love for you tojust see how we turn this very
obscure, ancient Arabic poetryinto a new composition.
And, because I'm based in NewYork, we actually worked with
some Afro-Cuban musicians and wefound a lot of commonalities
between Afro-Cuban music andArabic music.
So you can play the track.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
So in the meantime, until we get some music can you
explain a little bit more whyit's important to record at a
studio like Power Station andhow that kind of helped propel
your album?
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Yes, so you know Power Station Studios, station
studios.
First of all, the way that it'sbuilt uh is with
state-of-the-art acoustics, um,and if you see the studio, it's
made like a dome.
Like many religious uh places,they always have this dome for
(10:23):
acoustics to create a beautifulsound, because they weren't
always microphones.
So it has this beautiful domeand it's made with very old wood
, uh, the whole entire dome andalso at the bottom of the studio
, and then there are partitionsbetween each musician and this
creates a very beautifulacoustic experience.
And then the microphones thatwe use are built in the 1920s,
(10:50):
1930s.
The console that we use is likea $2 million console.
It's a very rare piece.
It's not just that it's veryhigh-level technology, but it's
also something rare, a vintagepiece that you can't replicate.
So this is what makes thestudio so beautiful.
I don't know if the track isthe track ready the next one.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Thank you, I'm a dancer.
Thank you, salli ala al-Muhtari.
Salli ala al-Muhtari.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
Salli ala al-Muhtari.
Salli ala al-Muhtari.
Salli ala al-Muhtari.
Salli ala al-Muhtari.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Thank you.
So I think we are all nowwondering how is it that you
come to the process of composingthis music?
Because the point that you madeat the beginning is that there
are individuals who are able toplay Um Kaltum, who are able to
(13:52):
really replicate this type ofmusic, but composing it from
scratch, it's a different story.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Yes, that's a great question.
I mean composing it fromscratch.
Once you learn the repertoire,once you learn how to sing Um
Kalsum and all these great rolemodels of this music, and you
understand Maqam theory, it'sactually very easy to compose.
And people often tell me oh, Iwant to learn the Aoud, but it
(14:22):
seems impossible.
Or I want to sing, but it seemsimpossible.
And actually, oh, hi Soon, wehave this amazing singer who's
coming?
Safa.
We'll hear her soon.
But anyway, I always tell myfriends it's very easy to learn
maqam.
Maqam is like the ABCs of music.
There are just seven or eightmaqamat, arguably, but if you
(14:46):
learn these seven maqamat, youcan be a composer and you can
create this beautiful music.
And each maqqam it's like uh,here we're at art dubai, so it's
uh, it's appropriate to talkabout colors and a canvas.
So to me as a composer, I thinkof maqam as colors.
So, for example, maqam bayat islike, uh, I don't know, I think
(15:08):
of it as orange.
Maqam hijaz, green.
Maqam sabar red.
So you take all these differentmaqamat and when I go to write
a song, I think about thesemaqamat and I and I throw these
colors on the canvas and createthis.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
You made it sound incredibly easy, so which?
I do not think it actually is,but so you had an amazing
experience where you had alistening um sort of I would say
a listening session.
Yes, right, and you explainedto me which I would love to
share with the audience, kind oflike the importance of
(15:45):
listening to music on qualityspeakers.
But I, I personally cannotarticulate this, so I need you
to tell us more yes, so this isa very interesting story, so we
have these, uh slide for itright, yes, so if you
Speaker 2 (16:00):
go to the next slide let's see what the next slide is
.
Yes, perfect, okay.
So this next slide, uh, is astudio, uh, in New York City, in
Dumbo.
Does anyone know where Dumbo is, near the Brooklyn Bridge?
Yes, very beautiful.
And these speakers have themost incredible sound in the
(16:23):
world, so much so that when LadyGaga finishes her album, she
goes there and plays her albumon this speaker and invites just
a select few people to listento her album.
She goes there and plays heralbum on this speaker and
invites just a select few peopleto listen to her work.
And if you're a jazz fan,christian McBride, very famous
jazz bass player, he hostslistening sessions in this
studio in Dumbo.
(16:44):
And this speaker system wasarchitected by my dear friend,
jonathan Weiss, who's just a nutabout perfection and sound.
And Jonathan Weiss basicallytook very old RCA speakers from
old movie theaters and parts ofGerman airplanes and crazy
(17:05):
things to basically create this,this beautiful system for
listening.
And he was drawn to me becausehe appreciated the, the beauty
of microtonal music or, and hefelt that on his speakers
because they're so sensitive toparticular sound.
This is the best place toexperience tarab, because tarab
(17:25):
is all about those beautifuldetails in the music.
And when I visited this placefor the first time.
It's very hard to get in.
I'm not Lady Gaga.
First time it's very hard toget in.
You know, I'm not Lady Gaga, soit wasn't easy for me to get in
.
But I said I want to hearsomething beautiful in Arabic on
these speakers.
So when I was in Egypt manyyears ago, I bought a recording
(17:46):
of Riyad al-Sumbati singing myfavorite song of Umm Kalsoum.
Singing my favorite song of UmmKalsoum, awad Ta'ayni.
Maybe you know this song.
Maybe we can sing it together.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
Awad Ta'ayni Ala ru'iyak, awad Ta'ayni Ala
ru'iyak Wa albi salim, salim.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Anyway, I brought this record and apparently it
wasn't clean enough.
He had to run the recordthrough this cleaning system
that they use in universities toclean old archives.
Then we placed the album on thesystem and I felt like Riyad
Al-Sombati was sitting in frontof me and singing.
It was a great experience and Istarted to cry.
(18:40):
I was like blown away by thissound.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
But can I ask you something?
Yes, If it's specific to Arabicmusic, because of the fact that
there are the micro-tones andthen your friend Jason Weiss.
Did he realize the impact thatthese speakers can have, and
also the music, along with thecorrect sound system?
Is it the combination of bothor not necessarily?
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Yes, it's that beautiful combination of them
both, and I actually wanted youto experience what I experienced
there, so I have the recordingof Riyad al-Sumbati.
I don't know if you've heard itbefore, but we're going to play
it now.
I love you.
I wish we could sit and listento the whole thing, but there
(20:21):
are other things happeningtonight, so we'll continue with
the talk.
We'll get back to it.
We'll get back to it.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Okay, all right, so I want to talk about your album
cover.
Oh, yes, because it is a workof art and this is the art of
sound.
And, honestly, I believe thatyesterday, actually, sultan
al-qasimi was here at a talk athuna lounge and I need you to
tell us the story of how thealbum cover happened.
(20:47):
And not just that, but how didyou select the artist and how
did you make this entire projectcome to life?
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Yes, so that's a great question.
So about two and a half yearsago, when we were about to
release the album, I was in NewYork and it just so happened
that my dear friend, hisExcellency Sultan al-Qasimi, was
visiting New York and I toldhim I don't know what to put on
(21:16):
the cover, but one thing I knowfor sure I don't want to put my
face on the cover, because I'mgoing to be showing this album
to everyone.
I'm going to get tired ofseeing my face.
I want something reallybeautiful.
And Sultan was the perfectperson to ask, because the
collection of artworks in hismind, besides from his personal
(21:36):
collection or the Barjilcollection, is amazing and way
beyond anything I could imagine.
So he we were sitting havingcoffee together and he thought
for a second.
He said you know, there's awork of Jawad Salim that's
currently in Moscow.
This, he said you know, there'sa work of jawad salim that's
currently in moscow.
Uh, this would be perfectbecause there's someone playing
(22:00):
the oud and you know, for thiswork of my album, I composed
everything on the oud and thenit expanded from there.
So I love this idea.
So he called his colleaguenamed Olga Navadova, who's a
researcher who's in and out ofMoscow and she said this work is
(22:23):
currently in the Museum of theOrient and it's owned by the
government and I have a high resversion.
I can send it to you, but youcan't share it.
She sent us the Lauha and wewere both amazed and we
discovered that this is actuallythe version she sent us.
(22:45):
The high-res color versiondidn't exist anywhere else other
than with Olga Navidova.
We Googled it.
We only found one in black andwhite and then eventually we
worked very hard to get therights to this work and to have
it released with my album.
And when my album was releasedit was the first time in 70
(23:07):
years the first time in 70 yearsthat this painting was seen in
public in color and really inpublic in general, because in
Google you had to go to thethird page to finally in public
in color and really in public ingeneral, because in google you
had to go to like the third pageto finally see it in black and
white.
So it was a really beautifulthing and I'm very honored that
my the cover of my album isgraced with this painting and
it's called uh in the presenceof the calife.
(23:31):
And what I really love aboutthis work is it's uh, it's oud
player in the middle, which islike the inspiration of Arabic
music, all the greatest.
We just heard Riyad al-Sumbati.
He's composing on the oud.
The oud is the source, and thenyou have these beautiful
musicians around him.
You have this female musicianon the kamanche, so it's a
(23:53):
progressive idea, especially inthe time when Jawad Salim I
think it was in the 40s or 50s,of course, and we talked about
Tarab and ecstasy and gettinghigh on the music.
So look at this guy, look howmuch he's the guy on the right.
He's my favorite guy actually.
He seems like no, actually he'shaving fun.
It's a huge honor.
(24:16):
And just earlier today they hada whole conversation about
Jawad Salim in a new book thatwas published about Jawad Salim
and his life.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
Yes, and his work, yes.
So I want to go back to NewYork and where this all started
for you.
You've toured the world withyour music and I mean only in
this past month you've been toover 10 countries, you told me,
and I just want to know kind ofthe reception to a sound like
(24:46):
this, a new sound in the Arabickind of world.
Everyone is so used to hearingthe same type of music kind of
world.
Everyone is so used to hearingthe same type of music.
And just how did you manage tokind of break out of that sort
of replaying the same songs andintroduce people to something
new and have them not only like,not only accept it, but also
(25:07):
enjoy it?
Because I believe you're havinga show at the Met very soon,
which of course means that thereception has been very positive
.
So can you tell us how didpeople react at the beginning?
Speaker 2 (25:21):
Yes, well, you know I'm doing something very, you
know, I guess, daring for ourindustry.
You know, like in the Arabicmusic industry kind of things
are done in a certain way andbecause I'm based in New York, I
kind of just do my own thingand I don't really know what's
going on actually over here.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Yeah, this is a good point.
So you're kind of, becauseFaraj does not live kind of in
the Middle East, but you're inand out.
So I believe that the idea thatyou do live in New York allows
you to kind of delve in withmore gumption.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
But you know what's actually really cool?
We have one of my favoritemusicians and producers in the
region here, arijan, and I'm sohonored to have him here and
it's like a nice coincidencereally, because he's one of the
few producers today that'sreally also breaking the rules
and based in the region and hiscompositions and his work are
(26:16):
really amazing.
And, yeah, it's an honor tohave you here.
And you know, what I'm doing inNew York is I'm using the tools
that I have around me and I'musing the things that can make
me different around me and I'musing the things that can make
me different.
(26:36):
So, like here in the Middle East, it's hard to find afro-cuban
pianist who grew up in Cuba andspent his whole life there and
then worked the hustle of theNew York jazz scene and then and
now I'm bringing him to play anew culture, arabic music.
So it's these kind of thingscreate a new sound, which I
think is very important inproduction, to create something
new.
You know me and Jonathan Weiss,who created the sound system
(26:59):
that we were talking aboutbefore.
We always talk about how musicis about new ideas and not
copying the past, and so themore we see of this in the
region.
I think the greater music willdevelop and the more our
beautiful tradition of Maqam andArabic music will evolve.
And my album is just an efforttowards this, a humble effort
(27:24):
towards this, and yeah, I hopethat answers the question.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
Thank you for that.
I do want to know.
Definitely the MetropolitanMuseum of Art.
This is a major, obviouslymajor thing that you are
actually going to perform there.
How did this performance comeabout?
And you said that you'rebringing together more than one
musician.
Is this a first time, is itkind of a new concept?
(27:51):
But can you tell us a littlebit more about?
Speaker 2 (27:53):
it yes.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
So you can go to the next slide.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Let's do that first.
Okay, so this is the poster formy concert in New York.
It's at the Metropolitan Museumof Art.
They have a beautiful operahouse inside the museum and
basically it was all inspiredfrom that previous work that you
heard of mine.
That was in the Damascus Room,which is inside the museum, and
(28:25):
it's a set of compositions thatI wrote with Western and Eastern
orchestration that mix my owncompositions with Qudud Halabiya
and Mouashahat, so you'll heara work of mine and then you'll
hear something Qud Halabi, thena work of mine, then Mouashah,
(28:47):
and the idea is to create acontrast between our beloved
traditions in Syria and newmusic in the Tarab genre.
And something interesting thename of the concert is Dimash
Quman, which means, like DimashQ, who are you to me?
Dimash Quman?
(29:08):
Well, qasida.
It's asking the audience whatdoes Damascus mean to you.
It's asking the audience whatdoes Damascus mean to you, and
it's actually based on a Persiancomposition.
My dear friend from Iran ishere and it's based on a
composition from HumayunShajarian where he sings, and
(29:29):
I'm going to sing you theShajarian version and then I'm
going to sing for you the Arabicversion I composed.
You speak Farsi as well.
Do we have Farsi speakers orPersians in the audience.
So it goes like this.
It goes in Farsi, and forgivemy pronunciation.
Speaker 3 (30:23):
It goes Sahar.
Yes, in Arabic.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Thank you.
So we spoke about the beginning, we spoke about the process and
your album, as well as thisupcoming concert in New York at
the Met.
I would love to know, farajAbiyad, what is next for you
other than this and what do youhope actually to kind of show
(30:57):
young musicians what is possible, because you may have very
talented musicians out there andthey may think that they need
to stay in that box of I can'texit this space of just playing
other people's music, so do youhave any advice on that?
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Yes, I think that you know, the more we make efforts,
those of us in a position ofcomposing or producing, the more
we make efforts to breakoutside of the traditions, the
more it's going to challenge thesystem and people are going to
(31:38):
start by osmosis, start creatingand it'll inspire younger
artists.
And already people approach mesometimes and they say oh, I
love how you composed this poem.
I composed my own.
A friend of mine wrote a poemand I composed it.
Can you listen to it, faraj?
So already this is happeningand, yeah, maybe we can continue
(32:03):
with some live music.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
Yes, I agree.
What do you think?
I think so too, so thank you.
I want to thank Faraj so muchfor his time.
Thank you everyone, and I wouldlove to let you all know that
we're just going to record alittle bit of the live music and
I suppose you'll go on for asmuch as you're inspired.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
We're going to play some music songs that you know,
so please sing along.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
Don't be shy, feel free to clap and enjoy.
Thank you so much, everyone.
Thank you for your time.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
Thank you, enjoy.
Thank you so much, everyone.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Thank you for your time, thank you, thank you.
Thank you for listening.
Make sure to follow at thecuration pod as well as at huna
living on instagram to stayupdated on future.
Huna talkss as well aseverything art, culture and
curated living.
This season of the Curation podcast continues with
a live recording from Art Dubai2025, in partnership with Huna
Living.
As part of ARM Holding, hunacreates communities rooted in
culture, craftsmanship andwell-being.
In this conversation, farajAbiyad delves into the art of
sound, the beauty of Arabicmusic and his collaboration with
(00:29):
the originals, oswald SmillsAudio and His Excellency Sultan
al-Qasimi for his album Cover.
Faraj shares with us abeautiful excerpt of music at
the beginning of this episode aswell as at the end.
So I hope you enjoy and withoutfurther ado, this is my
conversation with Faraj Abiyad.
We're proud to launch thisspecial episode of the Curation
(00:58):
Podcast in collaboration withHuna Living, recorded live at
Art Dubai 2025.
As part of ARM Holding, hunaredefines elevated living
through lifestyle-focusedcommunities that blend artistry,
design and sustainability.
In this talk, afra Dahiri, aliHussain Luta and Janet Bellotto
explore the intersections of art, education and contemporary
(01:22):
pedagogies in the UAE and beyond.
We speak about theirexperiences as artists,
educators and mentors and theimportance of education and art
in the contemporary landscapeand as part of a greater
ecosystem.
Without further ado, this is mytalk with Afra, alia and Janet.
I hope you enjoy and I lookforward to sharing more of these
(01:43):
conversations with you on theCuration Podcast.
Hello everyone, my name is NoorHassan and I am the founder of
the Curation Podcast, and thisentire conversation with Faraj
an exclusive, if you will willbe found on my podcast.
You can listen to it, you canwatch it and you will will be
(02:04):
found on my podcast.
You can listen to it, you canwatch it and you can hear the
music again at any point.
Thank you so much for startingwith that incredible rendition.
We really, really enjoyed itand I think it was the perfect,
perfect beginning to our talkand I'm so happy we have met
before, so we're friends, andthis will be just a casual
conversation, kind of divinginto Faraj's incredible journey.
(02:30):
I'm looking forward to you all,for you all, to hear it.
The talk is called the Art ofSound and I believe nothing
really exemplifies the art ofsound as much as Faraj put it
when he was speaking to me andexplaining his work Arabic music
and kind of the art of how thatis composed.
So I want to start with aquestion that I mean I believe I
always ask all my guests whatwas the point of kind of
(02:53):
inception for you with music?
Where did it start?
Speaker 2 (02:57):
That's a great question.
Well, you know, I grew up in ahome of Syrians from Aleppo but
living in New York, and it'sknown that the Aleppian Syrians,
the Syrians from Halab, theyhave a very strong musical
tradition of the Mouashah andQudud and you know the name of
(03:19):
my album is Qublatu Shi'rin, soit's all about Qasa'id classical
Arabic poetry and Fusha.
So I grew up with thistradition and though I'm
actually fourth generationSyrian so my family has been in
America for a hundred years, butour family very much kept this
tradition of Qudud, halabiya andSyrian music.
(03:41):
And growing up I was studyingjazz and classical music and
Western music, as I grew up inan environment without many
Syrians.
But when my grandfather wouldplay these old records of Sabah
Fakhri at home I would be soinspired by the sound, this
interesting maqam.
We call this Arabic music theorymaqam, and it has something
(04:04):
called rubatoun, which is inEnglish.
We call this Arabic musictheory maqam, and it has
something called ruba'ton, whichis in English we call it
microtones.
So I found that this microtoneand this microtonal music kind
of took me to a state of tarabor took me to a state of ecstasy
that we can't find in Westernmusic.
So I was very inspired by thissound and I was you.
(04:26):
I was maybe 10 or 11 years oldwhen I started to investigate
the shari'i music, the easternmusic, and then my journey
started there, and then that'swhat led me to here.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
I love how you mentioned all of those elements
and we'll get more into them.
I asked you when I met you.
I was very curious to know doyou consider yourself a singer,
a composer, a musician?
And your answer was veryinteresting to me because I
think perhaps you're all threeat the moment, or always.
Can you tell us a little bitmore about how that came to be?
Speaker 2 (05:02):
yes, so.
So I sing, I compose, I playthis instrument called the oud,
and this came to be.
I guess it evolved.
I started off as a singer andthen I was always fascinated by
the great composers of ourculture, like Mohamed Abdel
Wahab, riyad al-Sombati andwe'll talk about them later.
(05:25):
But I always felt that in ourwhen we spoke about this the
other day that in our scene ofclassical Arabic music it's very
common to cover music from thepast.
Most very high-level Arabicsingers that you meet they're
singing Um Kalsum beautifully orFayruz beautifully and they
(05:45):
have the abilities to evencompose, but the industry isn't
asking them to and they're notasking them to compose in that
genre.
Maybe they're asking them tocompose in pop or something more
easy listening.
But this tradition of Tarab isso beautiful that I believe
strongly that it should becontinued and it should be
(06:06):
developed and taken to its ownplace.
So that's the inspiration formy work and that's what led me
to become a composer and,because of my maqam training
from a young age, this helped mea lot to be able to take the
library of Tarab songs that Ihave in my mind from classic
singers like Waddi Asafi, fayruz, um Kalsoum, mohamed Abdel
(06:30):
Wahab, and to kind of combineall these things with my western
background as well to create myown sound that's personal for
me, that I love.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Thank you.
So, since our talk today iscalled the Art of Sound, I think
one of the most interestingthings that you said was
regarding the microtones thatare available and kind of only
accessible through Arabic music.
It's the reason why, when youlisten to Arabic music, you go
into kind of a state of trance.
There is some sort of feelingof being very much on a
(07:04):
different level.
But I want to understand andreally because I think it's
important to get technical withyou, if not who else what is the
importance of the tools and theinstruments that you use not
only to record but to projectthat sound, because we do want
to get into the originals andtheir story with the incredible
(07:25):
speakers that we'll be usingtoday as well, but I want to
know how important is it torecord and play your music on
the correct equipment?
Speaker 2 (07:38):
So, to answer your question, I would actually like
to answer it with a littlepresentation that I prepared,
with my friend, of course, andso we can actually hear the
music and how we're producing it.
So, if you can, please go tothe next slide.
So this is a room in New Yorkin the Metropolitan Museum of
(08:02):
Art called the Damascus Room,and in this room you can see, if
you look very closely, there'slike Arabic calligraphy from an
Andalusian poet namedLisan-ed-Din ibn Khatib.
And the museum approached methey know I'm the only Arabic
composer living in New York, soI guess I was their only choice.
(08:23):
They said can you compose thispoetry on the walls?
And if you go to the next slide, please, you can see this
zoomed in version of the poetry.
It says so.
(08:45):
They requested for me to composethis work and we recorded it in
one of the greatest studios inthe world, in Power Station
Studios in New York, where NoraJones records her albums today.
Bob Dylan recorded most of hismost famous works in this studio
, and the reason why this studiois so sacred for musicians is
(09:06):
because of the vintage recordingequipment.
Recording equipment is likekhashab al-awud it gets better
with time.
The sound of the awud getsbetter with time, so this is the
kind of equipment we'rerecording on and I'll just play
you a snippet of this recorded.
It actually hasn't beenmastered yet, so you're hearing
a very raw version of it, andI'll just play you a snippet of
this recorded it actually ithasn't been mastered yet, so
(09:27):
you're hearing like a very rawversion of it.
But I would love for you tojust see how we turn this very
obscure, ancient Arabic poetryinto a new composition.
And, because I'm based in NewYork, we actually worked with
some Afro-Cuban musicians and wefound a lot of commonalities
between Afro-Cuban music andArabic music.
So you can play the track.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
So in the meantime, until we get some music can you
explain a little bit more whyit's important to record at a
studio like Power Station andhow that kind of helped propel
your album?
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Yes, so you know Power Station Studios, station
studios.
First of all, the way that it'sbuilt uh is with
state-of-the-art acoustics, um,and if you see the studio, it's
made like a dome.
Like many religious uh places,they always have this dome for
(10:23):
acoustics to create a beautifulsound, because they weren't
always microphones.
So it has this beautiful domeand it's made with very old wood
, uh, the whole entire dome andalso at the bottom of the studio
, and then there are partitionsbetween each musician and this
creates a very beautifulacoustic experience.
And then the microphones thatwe use are built in the 1920s,
(10:50):
1930s.
The console that we use is likea $2 million console.
It's a very rare piece.
It's not just that it's veryhigh-level technology, but it's
also something rare, a vintagepiece that you can't replicate.
So this is what makes thestudio so beautiful.
I don't know if the track isthe track ready the next one.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Thank you, I'm a dancer.
Thank you, salli ala al-Muhtari.
Salli ala al-Muhtari.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
Salli ala al-Muhtari.
Salli ala al-Muhtari.
Salli ala al-Muhtari.
Salli ala al-Muhtari.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Thank you.
So I think we are all nowwondering how is it that you
come to the process of composingthis music?
Because the point that you madeat the beginning is that there
are individuals who are able toplay Um Kaltum, who are able to
(13:52):
really replicate this type ofmusic, but composing it from
scratch, it's a different story.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Yes, that's a great question.
I mean composing it fromscratch.
Once you learn the repertoire,once you learn how to sing Um
Kalsum and all these great rolemodels of this music, and you
understand Maqam theory, it'sactually very easy to compose.
And people often tell me oh, Iwant to learn the Aoud, but it
(14:22):
seems impossible.
Or I want to sing, but it seemsimpossible.
And actually, oh, hi Soon, wehave this amazing singer who's
coming?
Safa.
We'll hear her soon.
But anyway, I always tell myfriends it's very easy to learn
maqam.
Maqam is like the ABCs of music.
There are just seven or eightmaqamat, arguably, but if you
(14:46):
learn these seven maqamat, youcan be a composer and you can
create this beautiful music.
And each maqqam it's like uh,here we're at art dubai, so it's
uh, it's appropriate to talkabout colors and a canvas.
So to me as a composer, I thinkof maqam as colors.
So, for example, maqam bayat islike, uh, I don't know, I think
(15:08):
of it as orange.
Maqam hijaz, green.
Maqam sabar red.
So you take all these differentmaqamat and when I go to write
a song, I think about thesemaqamat and I and I throw these
colors on the canvas and createthis.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
You made it sound incredibly easy, so which?
I do not think it actually is,but so you had an amazing
experience where you had alistening um sort of I would say
a listening session.
Yes, right, and you explainedto me which I would love to
share with the audience, kind oflike the importance of
(15:45):
listening to music on qualityspeakers.
But I, I personally cannotarticulate this, so I need you
to tell us more yes, so this isa very interesting story, so we
have these, uh slide for itright, yes, so if you
Speaker 2 (16:00):
go to the next slide let's see what the next slide is
.
Yes, perfect, okay.
So this next slide, uh, is astudio, uh, in New York City, in
Dumbo.
Does anyone know where Dumbo is, near the Brooklyn Bridge?
Yes, very beautiful.
And these speakers have themost incredible sound in the
(16:23):
world, so much so that when LadyGaga finishes her album, she
goes there and plays her albumon this speaker and invites just
a select few people to listento her album.
She goes there and plays heralbum on this speaker and
invites just a select few peopleto listen to her work.
And if you're a jazz fan,christian McBride, very famous
jazz bass player, he hostslistening sessions in this
studio in Dumbo.
(16:44):
And this speaker system wasarchitected by my dear friend,
jonathan Weiss, who's just a nutabout perfection and sound.
And Jonathan Weiss basicallytook very old RCA speakers from
old movie theaters and parts ofGerman airplanes and crazy
(17:05):
things to basically create this,this beautiful system for
listening.
And he was drawn to me becausehe appreciated the, the beauty
of microtonal music or, and hefelt that on his speakers
because they're so sensitive toparticular sound.
This is the best place toexperience tarab, because tarab
(17:25):
is all about those beautifuldetails in the music.
And when I visited this placefor the first time.
It's very hard to get in.
I'm not Lady Gaga.
First time it's very hard toget in.
You know, I'm not Lady Gaga, soit wasn't easy for me to get in
.
But I said I want to hearsomething beautiful in Arabic on
these speakers.
So when I was in Egypt manyyears ago, I bought a recording
(17:46):
of Riyad al-Sumbati singing myfavorite song of Umm Kalsoum.
Singing my favorite song of UmmKalsoum, awad Ta'ayni.
Maybe you know this song.
Maybe we can sing it together.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
Awad Ta'ayni Ala ru'iyak, awad Ta'ayni Ala
ru'iyak Wa albi salim, salim.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Anyway, I brought this record and apparently it
wasn't clean enough.
He had to run the recordthrough this cleaning system
that they use in universities toclean old archives.
Then we placed the album on thesystem and I felt like Riyad
Al-Sombati was sitting in frontof me and singing.
It was a great experience and Istarted to cry.
(18:40):
I was like blown away by thissound.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
But can I ask you something?
Yes, If it's specific to Arabicmusic, because of the fact that
there are the micro-tones andthen your friend Jason Weiss.
Did he realize the impact thatthese speakers can have, and
also the music, along with thecorrect sound system?
Is it the combination of bothor not necessarily?
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Yes, it's that beautiful combination of them
both, and I actually wanted youto experience what I experienced
there, so I have the recordingof Riyad al-Sumbati.
I don't know if you've heard itbefore, but we're going to play
it now.
I love you.
I wish we could sit and listento the whole thing, but there
(20:21):
are other things happeningtonight, so we'll continue with
the talk.
We'll get back to it.
We'll get back to it.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Okay, all right, so I want to talk about your album
cover.
Oh, yes, because it is a workof art and this is the art of
sound.
And, honestly, I believe thatyesterday, actually, sultan
al-qasimi was here at a talk athuna lounge and I need you to
tell us the story of how thealbum cover happened.
(20:47):
And not just that, but how didyou select the artist and how
did you make this entire projectcome to life?
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Yes, so that's a great question.
So about two and a half yearsago, when we were about to
release the album, I was in NewYork and it just so happened
that my dear friend, hisExcellency Sultan al-Qasimi, was
visiting New York and I toldhim I don't know what to put on
(21:16):
the cover, but one thing I knowfor sure I don't want to put my
face on the cover, because I'mgoing to be showing this album
to everyone.
I'm going to get tired ofseeing my face.
I want something reallybeautiful.
And Sultan was the perfectperson to ask, because the
collection of artworks in hismind, besides from his personal
(21:36):
collection or the Barjilcollection, is amazing and way
beyond anything I could imagine.
So he we were sitting havingcoffee together and he thought
for a second.
He said you know, there's awork of Jawad Salim that's
currently in Moscow.
This, he said you know, there'sa work of jawad salim that's
currently in moscow.
Uh, this would be perfectbecause there's someone playing
(22:00):
the oud and you know, for thiswork of my album, I composed
everything on the oud and thenit expanded from there.
So I love this idea.
So he called his colleaguenamed Olga Navadova, who's a
researcher who's in and out ofMoscow and she said this work is
(22:23):
currently in the Museum of theOrient and it's owned by the
government and I have a high resversion.
I can send it to you, but youcan't share it.
She sent us the Lauha and wewere both amazed and we
discovered that this is actuallythe version she sent us.
(22:45):
The high-res color versiondidn't exist anywhere else other
than with Olga Navidova.
We Googled it.
We only found one in black andwhite and then eventually we
worked very hard to get therights to this work and to have
it released with my album.
And when my album was releasedit was the first time in 70
(23:07):
years the first time in 70 yearsthat this painting was seen in
public in color and really inpublic in general, because in
Google you had to go to thethird page to finally in public
in color and really in public ingeneral, because in google you
had to go to like the third pageto finally see it in black and
white.
So it was a really beautifulthing and I'm very honored that
my the cover of my album isgraced with this painting and
it's called uh in the presenceof the calife.
(23:31):
And what I really love aboutthis work is it's uh, it's oud
player in the middle, which islike the inspiration of Arabic
music, all the greatest.
We just heard Riyad al-Sumbati.
He's composing on the oud.
The oud is the source, and thenyou have these beautiful
musicians around him.
You have this female musicianon the kamanche, so it's a
(23:53):
progressive idea, especially inthe time when Jawad Salim I
think it was in the 40s or 50s,of course, and we talked about
Tarab and ecstasy and gettinghigh on the music.
So look at this guy, look howmuch he's the guy on the right.
He's my favorite guy actually.
He seems like no, actually he'shaving fun.
It's a huge honor.
(24:16):
And just earlier today they hada whole conversation about
Jawad Salim in a new book thatwas published about Jawad Salim
and his life.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
Yes, and his work, yes.
So I want to go back to NewYork and where this all started
for you.
You've toured the world withyour music and I mean only in
this past month you've been toover 10 countries, you told me,
and I just want to know kind ofthe reception to a sound like
(24:46):
this, a new sound in the Arabickind of world.
Everyone is so used to hearingthe same type of music kind of
world.
Everyone is so used to hearingthe same type of music.
And just how did you manage tokind of break out of that sort
of replaying the same songs andintroduce people to something
new and have them not only like,not only accept it, but also
(25:07):
enjoy it?
Because I believe you're havinga show at the Met very soon,
which of course means that thereception has been very positive
.
So can you tell us how didpeople react at the beginning?
Speaker 2 (25:21):
Yes, well, you know I'm doing something very, you
know, I guess, daring for ourindustry.
You know, like in the Arabicmusic industry kind of things
are done in a certain way andbecause I'm based in New York, I
kind of just do my own thingand I don't really know what's
going on actually over here.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Yeah, this is a good point.
So you're kind of, becauseFaraj does not live kind of in
the Middle East, but you're inand out.
So I believe that the idea thatyou do live in New York allows
you to kind of delve in withmore gumption.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
But you know what's actually really cool?
We have one of my favoritemusicians and producers in the
region here, arijan, and I'm sohonored to have him here and
it's like a nice coincidencereally, because he's one of the
few producers today that'sreally also breaking the rules
and based in the region and hiscompositions and his work are
(26:16):
really amazing.
And, yeah, it's an honor tohave you here.
And you know, what I'm doing inNew York is I'm using the tools
that I have around me and I'musing the things that can make
me different around me and I'musing the things that can make
me different.
(26:36):
So, like here in the Middle East, it's hard to find afro-cuban
pianist who grew up in Cuba andspent his whole life there and
then worked the hustle of theNew York jazz scene and then and
now I'm bringing him to play anew culture, arabic music.
So it's these kind of thingscreate a new sound, which I
think is very important inproduction, to create something
new.
You know me and Jonathan Weiss,who created the sound system
(26:59):
that we were talking aboutbefore.
We always talk about how musicis about new ideas and not
copying the past, and so themore we see of this in the
region.
I think the greater music willdevelop and the more our
beautiful tradition of Maqam andArabic music will evolve.
And my album is just an efforttowards this, a humble effort
(27:24):
towards this, and yeah, I hopethat answers the question.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
Thank you for that.
I do want to know.
Definitely the MetropolitanMuseum of Art.
This is a major, obviouslymajor thing that you are
actually going to perform there.
How did this performance comeabout?
And you said that you'rebringing together more than one
musician.
Is this a first time, is itkind of a new concept?
(27:51):
But can you tell us a littlebit more about?
Speaker 2 (27:53):
it yes.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
So you can go to the next slide.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Let's do that first.
Okay, so this is the poster formy concert in New York.
It's at the Metropolitan Museumof Art.
They have a beautiful operahouse inside the museum and
basically it was all inspiredfrom that previous work that you
heard of mine.
That was in the Damascus Room,which is inside the museum, and
(28:25):
it's a set of compositions thatI wrote with Western and Eastern
orchestration that mix my owncompositions with Qudud Halabiya
and Mouashahat, so you'll heara work of mine and then you'll
hear something Qud Halabi, thena work of mine, then Mouashah,
(28:47):
and the idea is to create acontrast between our beloved
traditions in Syria and newmusic in the Tarab genre.
And something interesting thename of the concert is Dimash
Quman, which means, like DimashQ, who are you to me?
Dimash Quman?
(29:08):
Well, qasida.
It's asking the audience whatdoes Damascus mean to you.
It's asking the audience whatdoes Damascus mean to you, and
it's actually based on a Persiancomposition.
My dear friend from Iran ishere and it's based on a
composition from HumayunShajarian where he sings, and
(29:29):
I'm going to sing you theShajarian version and then I'm
going to sing for you the Arabicversion I composed.
You speak Farsi as well.
Do we have Farsi speakers orPersians in the audience.
So it goes like this.
It goes in Farsi, and forgivemy pronunciation.
Speaker 3 (30:23):
It goes Sahar.
Yes, in Arabic.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Thank you.
So we spoke about the beginning, we spoke about the process and
your album, as well as thisupcoming concert in New York at
the Met.
I would love to know, farajAbiyad, what is next for you
other than this and what do youhope actually to kind of show
(30:57):
young musicians what is possible, because you may have very
talented musicians out there andthey may think that they need
to stay in that box of I can'texit this space of just playing
other people's music, so do youhave any advice on that?
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Yes, I think that you know, the more we make efforts,
those of us in a position ofcomposing or producing, the more
we make efforts to breakoutside of the traditions, the
more it's going to challenge thesystem and people are going to
(31:38):
start by osmosis, start creatingand it'll inspire younger
artists.
And already people approach mesometimes and they say oh, I
love how you composed this poem.
I composed my own.
A friend of mine wrote a poemand I composed it.
Can you listen to it, faraj?
So already this is happeningand, yeah, maybe we can continue
(32:03):
with some live music.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
Yes, I agree.
What do you think?
I think so too, so thank you.
I want to thank Faraj so muchfor his time.
Thank you everyone, and I wouldlove to let you all know that
we're just going to record alittle bit of the live music and
I suppose you'll go on for asmuch as you're inspired.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
We're going to play some music songs that you know,
so please sing along.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
Don't be shy, feel free to clap and enjoy.
Thank you so much, everyone.
Thank you for your time.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
Thank you, enjoy.
Thank you so much, everyone.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Thank you for your time, thank you, thank you.
Thank you for listening.
Make sure to follow at thecuration pod as well as at huna
living on instagram to stayupdated on future.
Huna talkss as well aseverything art, culture and
curated living.
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