A powerful conversation unfolds at Art Dubai 2025 as three visionary women share their journeys through the evolving landscape of arts education in the UAE. Dean Janet Bellotto of Zayed University, artist-educator Afra Al Dhaheri, and artist-founder of Medaf Studio Alia Hussain Lootah reveal the transformative potential of creative learning while challenging traditional pedagogical approaches.
Their personal stories illustrate remarkable transitions—from financial accounting and PR studies to pioneering artistic practices—highlighting how educational interventions can dramatically alter life trajectories. The dialogue explores how community-building sits at the heart of effective arts education.
Most compelling is their vision for the future—arts education that embraces performance, climate resilience, and interdisciplinary approaches. Alia's work with children emphasizes creative freedom. As Janet concludes, growth comes from "working alongside different generations" within an ecosystem where everyone both teaches and learns.
For more on each speaker visit @afra_aldhaheri, @aliahlootah_ and @Janet Bellotto.
This episode is in collaboration with @hunaliving. As part of A.R.M. Holding, HUNA redefines elevated living through lifestyle-focused communities that blend artistry, design, and sustainability.
This episode was filmed LIVE at @artdubai 2025.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Welcome to the Curation, a show for the
culturally curious.
This is your host, noor Hassan.
Each week, I'll guide youthrough a curated edit of the
finest in art, fashion, design,culture, luxury, wellness, tech
and more.
This is your go-to space fordiscovering trailblazing ideas,
untold stories and meaningfulconversations with innovators
(00:29):
and creators who are shaping ourworld.
There's no gatekeeping here, sosit back, tune in and let's
discover only the best together.
We're proud to launch thisspecial episode of the Curation
(00:51):
Podcast in collaboration withHuna Living, recorded live at
Art Dubai 2025.
As part of ARM Holding, hunaredefines elevated living
through lifestyle-focusedcommunities that blend artistry,
design and sustainability.
In this talk, afra DhaheriahHussain Luta and Janet Bellotto
explore the intersections of art, education and contemporary
pedagogies in the UAE and beyond.
(01:13):
We speak about theirexperiences as artists,
educators and mentors and theimportance of education and art
in the contemporary landscapeand as part of a greater
ecosystem.
Without further ado, this is mytalk with Afra, Alia and Janet.
I hope you enjoy and I lookforward to sharing more of these
conversations with you on theCuration Podcast.
(01:42):
Hello everyone, welcome to theHuna Lounge.
This is our Huna Talks with theCuration series and I really
wanted to start this seriestoday by introducing my guests.
First of all and I believe thistalk is potentially the most
important that we will behosting on the Curation on
education in specific, becauseit's a topic that I'm very
(02:05):
passionate about personally,coming from a very institutional
background as well as aneducation-focused background.
As a speaker, as a journalistmyself, I really believe that
it's important to get all theinformation from the source, so
I'd love to introduce myspeakers, my guests today.
Speakers my guests today.
(02:28):
First, janet Bellotto, the Deanof CAS at Zayed University.
Afra Daghiri, incredible artist, and dear friend Alia Luta,
incredible artist as well, andboth from the Emirates, so
really honored to have you bothhere today.
So I'd love for you to startjust by briefly introducing
yourselves to the audience andwe'll get into our conversation
together.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Thank you, noor, and thank you for this really
important conversation and I'mhappy that we can all be here
together from our differentperspectives.
So I'm the Dean just startedthis year at the College of Arts
and Creative Enterprises atZayed University, but I've been
teaching here in the UAE since2006, the same year, academic
(03:12):
year that Art Dubai started.
So I remember when it was firstlaunched here in 2007.
And I think the second year Iwas actually here talking about
art education.
I think the second year I wasactually here talking about art
education.
So, almost 20 years later, tohave this conversation with
(03:32):
local young artists whose workyou've seen last year in the
fair is quite exciting.
I'm also an artist by practiceand I play several roles also,
sometimes curating exhibitionsfor cultural exchange and yeah,
that's me Incredible.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Thank you, afra.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
Hi, my name is Afra Dahri and I'm a visual artist
based in Abu Dhabi.
I'm also an educator I'm afaculty at Zayed University as
well and I do remember Janetfrom.
I took some classes in ZayedUniversity in Dubai at the time
and I remember seeing Janet, soit's also like really
(04:11):
heartwarming to be kind ofwitnessing all the developments
in the art scene and being ableto come back and contribute in
this way.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Yeah, Thank you, alia .
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Hi, my name is Alia Hussain Luta.
I'm a full-time artist based inDubai.
I'm also the co-founder ofMedav Studio, which is an art
center that aims to spread artand educate children as well as
adults about art.
Our aim is making artaccessible.
(04:46):
So yeah, that's about it.
And actually I know Afra.
We were in a fellowship programas well, thank you.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
So I think the very first question for all of you
and I'd love for us to eachindividually answer it is what
is the importance of educationin art?
Because I think there is adiscourse where many people do
believe, of course you can beginyour career by practice, but
(05:17):
where is that space whereeducation fits in and how
important is it in your youropinion, of course, that's a
very good question and we mightbe a little bit biased about
that, but art in education isnot just about the professional
(05:37):
practice.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
It really needs to be embedded throughout, from
children when they're playingaround with materials.
It's another way to learn andsee the world differently.
So, and I've seen changes herein the UAE as art has been more
(05:58):
embedded, as art has become morepart of the dialogue at every
level, and I think without thatwe're missing something very
important become more part ofthe dialogue at every level, and
I think without that we'remissing something very important
and how that might grow, andhow someone might be inspired
and draw from the time thatthey're very young and bring
(06:21):
that back into the community indifferent ways.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Yes, and Afra, I have seen you at your studio
physically educating andshowcasing and showing people
how it's done and being a partof it.
You're very hands-on and Ireally believe that that makes
such a difference.
But can you talk to us moreabout that, because I think
being present while educatingand mentoring it's it's a really
(06:47):
important part of it.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
yeah, um, I think it plays, uh like a, it creates a
circle.
You know it's a cycle that youknow goes round and round.
And I think, um, when I was astudent, I felt like I wanted at
the time to intern, for example, at an artist studio.
I wanted to have experience inpractice and not just working at
(07:15):
an institution like a museum oran art organization, and so,
while at the time there weren'tmany artists that had their
studios open to accept that kindof apprenticeship, Okay.
And so I really wanted to firstgive back to the institution
(07:39):
that I actually started myeducation and was instrumental
in me choosing to go into thearts.
I started actually at ZayedUniversity studying financial
accounting Interesting.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
That's a plot twist.
Speaker 4 (07:56):
Yeah, but I thank my advisor at the time who said you
know you should try arts.
I went to him not knowing youshould try arts.
I went to him not knowing.
At some point I said, well, I'mnot sure this is for me, so can
I try something else?
And he suggested art and Ilaughed at the time.
I said I never drew, I neverpainted.
Like what do you mean?
I took his advice and I tookfoundation courses and I was
(08:19):
like a kid in a candy store.
So the story can tell itselffrom there.
But going back to that moment,I felt like it's important to
come back and give more to thisinstitution that had a hand in
my career today.
But I also felt like I wantedto open doors to students, to
(08:43):
young artists, to participate inthe production process, to
witness and understand what ittakes to go and develop a
proposal, then take it toinstall.
How you put a team together toactually manage a particular
project.
What does creating programmingaround a project mean?
And so I've opened my studio asa space for students to also
(09:06):
come and intern and take part inthese.
In this process but not onlyfor myself I've also opened door
for students to go and mentorwith my fellow colleagues.
I mean, alia knows this.
I always ask does anyone needan intern?
Is Is anyone?
interested in teaching someone,and I think that this is a very
(09:29):
important way of learning asartists.
You know, we can easily justhide in our studios, but I think
it's really important in thescene particularly that we also
pass it on and we also share.
I think our scene is verycommunity-based and that's
important.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Yes, and I think, honestly, the work that you're
doing, and Janet and Alia, is abig part of creating that
community.
Not only so, but making peopleopen to mentorship, open to
guidance, open to howlife-changing it can be for
someone to tell you what aboutgoing to the arts department,
which is something perhaps younever thought of or no one ever
(10:08):
told you, and then you might nothave ended up there without the
power of that educationalbackground.
So, alia, I definitely saw youat the children's program,
mentoring and educating yourself.
Can you tell us more, please,about how the role of education
has played a big part in yourcareer?
Speaker 3 (10:26):
So definitely.
I mean for me.
As a child, I used tocommunicate through drawings.
I've always struggled with thelearning, with math, science,
and I was able to understand how, how, why and why.
Was I not good at something?
But I was good at art andgrowing up we never thought that
(10:48):
we could have a career in thearts and that's why I think when
I went to.
Zayed University, I did notstudy art.
I graduated with PR andadvertising, thinking that this
is an official career.
I will have an official job andthat's what I'm supposed to do.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
So originally accounting and PR and
advertising.
I think this actually is areally interesting start to the
story to be honest yeah,definitely.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
And after graduating I realized that I've always been
passionate about art and movingforward.
Now I created my own center.
Now I created my own center andI wanted to have children like
me, who had difficultyexpressing themselves, have a
place to feel like it's okay toexpress yourself and there's no
(11:36):
wrong and right.
I think that's what's reallyimportant to me, because growing
up, we always felt like this isthe wrong thing to do and this
is the right thing, and I thinkin art there's no right or wrong
, and that's what I think reallyshapes what I do every day.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Yes, and I think I really want to take it back to
Janice here and what Afra andAlia just said really kind of
touches on the point oftraditional education said
really kind of touches on thepoint of traditional education,
traditional arts education,versus something that is a
little bit more contemporary anda little bit more involved.
So what are your thoughts onthat at Zayed University?
Like how can we really involve,like you said, the community,
(12:16):
the artists and every otherfundamental individual around
that ecosystem?
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Yeah, the ecosystem is quite important and actually
we're in dialogue right nowabout we need to change Some of
the things that we've beenteaching.
Let's say, traditionally stillhas been built from models that
were developed decades ago.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
Can you give?
Speaker 2 (12:41):
us examples if possible at all.
Yeah, some examples.
So you know we have courses inArt Foundation, so the first
courses students take and onething that Afra said is we've
always been with the ethos ofbuilding students' appreciation,
(13:01):
but also their capabilities,with tools.
So you might not, like Afrasaid, you didn't do any drawing
or practice in that sense, butwe have the tools and we help
you, guide and use those tools,but it's been sort of very a
(13:22):
concrete base and not reallybringing that outside of the
classroom.
Yes, and and I think we'rechanging more as facilitators in
education rather than just awe're at the front and lecturing
about something anddemonstrating, so it's a more
proactive approach.
So now we're taking alsocombining more various
(13:43):
disciplines like design anddigital fabrication and seeing
what students can do with themand allow them to push those
boundaries.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
Thank you.
So I would love Afra to extendfurther on the idea of what can
be done that is more helpful tothe students.
If you were a student, what doyou wish you would have had
access to?
Because I know that you've doneincredible programs and kind of
practices, I believe ineducation that are it's not
really just like let us drawstill life or let us read a
(14:16):
certain book, but what are somepractices that really made a
difference with you and yourcareer?
Speaker 4 (14:23):
I mean the Sheikh Salama Emerging Artist
Fellowship, was instrumental,you know, and it's a program
where Meen Alia met for thefirst time and I think that,
having access to programs withmodules as such and the model of
the SEAF program, the way itruns is that it's based on a
(14:46):
five individual five models thatrun throughout nine months and
they're intensive models.
Each week of that model is tiedaround one assignment, one
assessment and that assignmentis collectively created by the
cohort and they produce itwithin that week, and it
(15:09):
includes feedback, it includescritique, it includes going
outside of the studios, visitingsites that associate with the
topic, for example.
I think the more like whatJeanne was saying, in ways that
we're trying to, for example.
I think the more like what Jantwas saying in in ways that
we're trying to, for example,engage and collaborate with
(15:30):
other alternative institutionsand what we have access to.
And I think that today we'revery lucky I keep saying this to
students and younger artistswe're so lucky to be practicing
in the art scene today becausewe have so many resources.
We have institutions, museumsthat also function in adding to
(15:51):
the academic understanding ofart and culture right.
But then we also have grantsthat allow us to challenge what
is normal and challenge what isart today, and I think that we
have that kind of power inactually influencing our
(16:14):
students to aim for more thanwhat we are presenting today,
and there are support systemsfor that.
Lourdes sorry if.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
I can add to that Because the ecosystem continues
to grow.
There's many more diverseinstitutions that have developed
foundations, dubai Culture, dctthat have enlarged, allowed
artists the opportunity andthere's still more room for this
adaptation.
One example, too what we'vebeen doing is bringing students
(16:45):
out in the field, and theexhibition that Zayed University
students curated with the Dubaicollection has been the first
collaboration on a larger scalewith Dubai culture and Art Dubai
.
So bringing the practice inclass out to the practice in the
field and that becomes theinspiration for others in the
(17:06):
community and young artists areinspiring students to see the
potential of also their futurein arts and culture.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Yeah, I think that's a really interesting point
because that makes the visioncome to life.
It makes it possible for ayoung artist to actually see
what the reality of the end ofthis process looks like.
So thank you for those twoincredible points.
I want to ask, alia, so thejourney of Sif, first of all, I
(17:40):
mean I would love to know, aswell as Afra did tell us its
impact on you as an alternativeform of education, of becoming
as an artist, and then not justthat, how you felt it was
important to mentor after thatartists, because I feel like not
, it's not the natural course.
Not every artist must become amentor and not every mentor
(18:01):
should become an artist.
It's not always that way.
So can you tell us a bit moreabout it?
Speaker 3 (18:06):
I think the program was instrumental, especially
that I did not take art as amaster or a diploma in
university.
It was like an extra thing thatI can do to push me towards my
goal.
It really gave me anunderstanding of the community
and culture, of what is anartist and how to be an artist,
(18:29):
and definitely highlighted theart practice in the studio
rather than just the end result.
I think for me that was themost important take from this
program.
On top of that is meetingamazing artists.
I mean, in the end of the day,we're a small community and we
really build by connecting witheach other, learning from each
(18:49):
other, and that was the best.
I've always said that the bestthing about the art community
here in the UAE is everyone isthere to help you if you just
ask, especially from not havingthe experience in, for example,
ceramics or other material.
I would ask my friend who's anartist.
She would teach me, or Salamawould teach me printmaking.
(19:11):
I think this natural want toteach and share information is
such a neat thing in everyartist, and wanting everyone to
success and use other materialis something really beautiful
about the community of artistswe have.
I think that's what reallyreally shaped my practice.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Yes, and not just that.
I think that maybe from beingyounger artists, I really
believe you already kind of haveexperienced a very big arch in
what has happened.
A lot has happened in the pastfew years and you years and you
always say after that you arevery lucky to be, you know,
practicing at the moment.
So I would love to know fromyou, when you're teaching
(19:55):
students at Zayed University,for example, what do you feel
their biggest wants and needsare from the educational system?
Like what do you think thatthey crave more of?
Speaker 4 (20:07):
wow, I saw one of our students here really, that's
amazing um, personally, I getasked a lot of like how do we do
this, how did you?
You do it?
You know, and I'm always in awewhen I'm asked this question I
(20:29):
obviously sit and I give a lotof my time to actually propose
ideas or suggest apost-graduation plan.
I teach the seniors as well, sothere's a lot of mentorship in
that course, getting them to thefinish line and finally
(20:51):
presenting their final projects.
But I do talk to them a lotabout the opportunities that
await them and, as I saidearlier, there's a lot of
opportunities now compared towhen I graduated, for example,
in 2011.
And, for example, we have I'lltalk about Abu Dhabi.
(21:14):
For example, there's theCultural Foundation residency.
They can apply to see ifthey're nominated, for example
and as faculty, a lot of us arenominators anyway, so we always
nominate our students.
There's the 421 residency aswell, of course.
There's a lot happening thatthey can.
(21:35):
I mean, jamil offers, you know,the young.
What is it called?
Yeah, I forgot Young, something,something, sorry the youth
assembly, the young assembly,the youth assembly yeah, the
youth assembly, which allows ourartists to not only participate
(21:55):
uh as artists and show theirwork, but they can also
participate in uh proposingcuratorial ideas and they can
curate their other you knowfriends and so on, which really
opens doors for them to think.
One of the things I get askedabout a lot is how did you start
your studio space, for example?
(22:17):
or how do we, where do we go,how do we start?
And I've always encouragedstarting as a group, and I
started as a group.
We had a space called B815,which I co-founded with Hashim
Lemke, maitha Abdullah andZuhura Sayegh.
So there was that as an exampleand we had many students who
(22:39):
had interned with us there andthen started their own spaces.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
So, for example, studio Arisha right now studio
Untitled, like these are allexamples of places that actually
came out of these kind ofconversations of how do we do it
and where do we start and Ilove, first of all, that you
answer these conversations, thatyou answer these questions,
because I think there's there isquite a bit of gatekeeping in
(23:05):
the arts world and I feel someartists do find it difficult to
kind of share the whole process.
But I think you're one of theartists that really does and you
show it and I love that.
I think it's incredible.
So, janet, I would love for youto tell us a little bit more
about CASE, because I think itwould be helpful to understand,
kind of how this entiredepartment of Zayas University
(23:28):
kind of fuels that creativeecosystem, like we said at the
beginning.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Yes, oh, that's a long story.
I don't know if we have allthat time.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
You can give us the brief.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
I will give you a brief.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
You know we're a complete studio-based program,
visual arts and design programs.
We've been 1998, zayedUniversity was established for
an all-female university, andaround 2003, they started with
design because the industry hadopportunities for that.
(24:04):
So that was easy to comprehend.
But as the ecosystem grew inDubai, so did our programs, so
did the ability to advocate theneed for this.
So we went from a department ofart to a college of art and
creative enterprises and wecontinued to transform.
So one of the important thingsand I think, the other
(24:27):
educational institutions here,like NYU, abu Dhabi, sharjah
University, american Universityof Sharjah, american University,
dubai we all have a role toplay and there's still room to
grow.
So, going from an undergraduateinstitution, we're working now
(24:47):
on graduate programs andconnecting more with the
community.
You know, one of the thingsthat we recently asked students
you know what's most importantto them from our program is
community, their ability to talkto each other, to talk with
their faculty and those that weinvite to come and talk with our
(25:12):
students.
It's really important.
I hope we can findopportunities to engage more and
I think that's where things aregoing, because once you go out
into the real world, things aredifferent.
You're not in these silos, andthat's one thing, I think we
need to also expand on and befluid, because that's the
(25:33):
conversations that are going ontoday and, yeah, Thank you.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
So a question I really wanted to ask, alia, is
you know, I saw you just withthe children's program, the ARM
children's program, and sort ofworking with the children,
getting them to sort of bringtheir creative juices out, and
in a very curated and wonderfulway.
(26:02):
Curated and wonderful way.
So I just want to know what doyou think the importance is?
To sort of allow children to becreative from a young age,
something that perhaps neitheryou or Afra had an opportunity
to do, and so you had to kind ofnot play catch-up in that sense
.
But how important is it and andhow is it that you actually go
(26:23):
about working with such youngerminds?
Speaker 3 (26:27):
I mean it's really important to expose children
from a young age to materialsallowing them to use, explore,
play with and be adventurous andreally explain to them that
there is no right and wrong,because I feel that because of
the, the classic discipline ofart, especially from a very
(26:48):
young age, limits that.
And from my experience, I mean,when I meet someone and I tell
them I'm an artist, the firstthing they tell me oh, I don't
know how to paint, I don't knowhow to draw, and I was like, yes
, I was like what did your artteacher tell you as a kid?
But they're like, yeah, shedidn't, she didn't like my
drawing.
That's the first thing they say.
That's really sad and that'severy question I ask.
(27:11):
That's the common answer I haveand that's why I really believe
that it's very vital for theyoung minds is not to limit them
and really encourage creativethinking, allowing them to make
mistakes.
I feel that's the purpose I amhere in the world is to tell
children it's okay to makemistakes and it really shocks
(27:33):
them.
Sometimes I give them taskslike draw outside the line, or
you're only allowed to drawoutside the line, and they're
like what is wrong with her?
So I think it's trying to changethis mindset of it's okay to
make mistakes.
Maybe you will learn the skillslater on, but as a young mind
that's the purpose you areallowed to make mistakes, you
(27:56):
are allowed to play, you areallowed to put materials that
don't make sense together, and Ifeel that's that's what the
whole purpose of me to givingworkshops or teaching children
at a young age amazing.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
I love that incredible.
So okay, on the point of playactually I'll take a tafra here
I think your work really is suchan epitome of what the essence
of play is, how you can becomean interdisciplinary, human and
kind of play with sight, sound,voice, all of the senses.
(28:31):
I'd love you to tell us alittle bit more about that.
I think it's a differentapproach, I think it's such a
unique approach and it makes artI hate using the word
accessible, but I think it's aword that really your work can
embody and it's a beautifulthing.
So can you tell us a bit moreabout how you got to that point
(28:53):
in your art?
Speaker 4 (28:56):
It's a very good question.
I mean these works that you'retalking about, the collective
exhaustion and deconstructingcollective exhaustion, which are
immersive experiences that I'vedeveloped, installations that
include sound and light, that isengineered in a way that
actually loops the easiest wayto describe it is like a shuffle
(29:16):
.
It's never the same, so itactually invites the audience to
stay in that place for longermoments of time.
For every person, who, anindividual who would experience
it, I'm kind of providing aspace for them to have their own
interpretation, their ownexperience, so everyone would
have a completely differentexperience at different timings
(29:39):
when they attend the work.
One of the reasons that Iembarked on this journey and
found myself kind of handsitching, wanting to try
something new, and I got boredof what I was doing Simple.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
Yes, tell us more.
Speaker 4 (29:59):
I mean not to demean my practice, but I felt like I
got too good at using mymateriality and I've established
a language that I became sofluent at Right and I went I can
easily, you know, put materialstogether and make meaning out
of them and make them make sense, and people would enjoy them.
(30:22):
And at some point I was likeand then what?
Yeah, and I wanted more, and I,you know, my hands were itching
.
I wanted something thatchallenges me.
I wanted something that likewhat else can I learn?
And I started observing ourinteraction when, as an audience
, how much time we spend inexhibition spaces, and I
(30:46):
realized that, if not anchoredby a conversation, sometimes we
just pull up our phone, takepictures and leave.
So then what happened to feelingart?
What happened to art havingactually an impact or a
resonance on us?
And so I went into a bit morepsychology and philosophy and I
started reading a lot of ByungChul Han, specifically like the
(31:10):
scent of time, and it talks alot about our relationship to
time, and there's a lot ofimpatience in the, in the, in
the pace that we're living at atthe moment, and so I wanted to
take people back to activatingtheir senses.
How can I create a peace thatpeople actually experience, not
(31:32):
only with their eye and actuallywith their skin, with their
hearing, and so I referenced itto a walk in the forest.
It's so invigorating and youleave refreshed.
Why?
Because you activate the senses, not only the five, but all the
ones that we don't talk about,and so I wanted to create that.
(31:54):
And people leaving that spacemaybe they don't necessarily get
triggered or remembereverything at once, but maybe
they'll walk into a space thathas a similar lighting and it
will trigger that work.
Maybe they listen to a certainkey or score and they might go
back to that place, so they takesomething with them that they
(32:16):
don't necessarily understand.
Sorry, it was such a longanswer.
No, no, this is how I got there,but where I went to a program
in the States Watermill ArtCenter and I did a summer
program there that you knowserved the itching yes.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
No, honestly, I love your answer and I will never
forget when you were working onthis project and we were at your
studio and you told me I'mgoing to show people what it
feels like after burnout orafter just feeling exhausted,
and I think it's kind of anawakening, really, like you make
(32:55):
people wake up, use your sensesactually kind of really
interact with the arts.
And I mean, going back to whatAlia said, getting out of the
box, why are we in the box?
Yes, and it's really why we'rehere, it's why we're talking
about this, I think, for my lastcouple of questions, for all of
you, even though I could reallytalk about this topic for hours
(33:18):
, janet, I'd love for you toshare with us.
I mean, at Zayed University,like you said, there's so much
going on.
What are the you know kind ofartists that you're looking to
work with in the future?
I mean like artists that youfeel will not specifically.
I'm not talking to say whoexactly, but the kind of mindset
(33:39):
that you're looking to instillin the students and just to make
sure that the redirection ishappening.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
Yeah, Well, that's what we're trying to decide
right now or discuss, but Ithink a few things is also
reflecting back what we seehappening in the community and
in the region especially, andsome of the conversations that
I've had going to seeexhibitions and participating in
(34:06):
these kind of dialogues, andone thing that first comes to
mind is performance and thinkingabout also Afra's installation
in Abu Dhabi really resonateswith that music or sound,
computational sound.
(34:27):
So artists that are doing, Ithink, in the digital art fair
right now.
So bringing in a dialogue thatwe're already not teaching or we
don't have expertise in becauseyou know we have limitations
that way.
But another way to bring theconversation forward, to bring
another opportunity to teach oropen that dialogue for us to
(34:48):
rethink, is to bring thosevoices in there.
And also, you know what'selsewhere, what's the global
conversations about, of course,and one of the things that's
close to my heart is climateresilience.
You know, we've just had Expo2020, I mean a few years ago now
(35:08):
but the conversations that arehappening with the Ministry of
Culture and the Ministry ofClimate Change Change and
bringing those two together.
So if that's happening, we needto be having those conversations
now in the institutions and wesee that with artists already
practicing.
But how does that translate?
So, if we can haveconversations, if we can work
(35:29):
with institutions to bring thoseindividuals, those experts,
internally talk to thescientists that are also doing
things to have that conversationand, as well, bring our
students out so for them to seethat happening in the field, and
I think that's where, at ZayedUniversity, we're really looking
(35:51):
towards, or those are the kindof individuals we can invite and
like events like Art Dubai.
There's there's experts,whether they're practicing
artists or designers orarchitects.
All of those should beintegrated and not integrated,
but brought in and talking toall the students across all
disciplines, and they, and, Ithink, working with the
(36:14):
galleries, the museums, thecurators, whether in the
institution or independent, ishow I'd like to sort of take the
next steps forward.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
I think that sounds incredible and also very
inspirational.
I think performance.
You really nailed it on thatone.
I think a lot of people arereally definitely even in the
fair you see the pieces that themore you can interact
especially for children and foradults too it's really the more
you can get emotionallyconnected to the art.
(36:47):
And so my last question forevery single one of you is a
question I believe my audiencewill always want me to ask and
always cherish.
We're very detail-oriented atthe curation.
How is it that you make surethat you self-educate yourself?
What are your practices and anyadvice you could give, not
(37:09):
specifically on education, notonly in art, but what are your
ways to make sure that you stayrefreshed and educated?
And any one of you can startthere Me, alia.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
I mean, I get definitely inspired by my fellow
artists If, walking through thefair, we take images of the
artist's name research thatwho's the new artist there.
So I think that really helpedme get to know my environment.
At the end of the day, learningdoes not finish.
You have to keep learning andeducating yourself, either
(37:42):
through online or throughmeeting people.
Which is the easiest part ismeeting actual artists and
getting to know them.
I think that's the mostenjoyable experience in learning
when you actually meet artistsand ask them what material you
use, how long do you work on awork?
When did this finish?
I mean, this information reallyboosts me and then I'm like,
(38:03):
okay, what can I do?
What else can I do?
We met an artist yesterday.
He spends 10 hours a daypainting and.
I'm like that's not what I doand maybe I should do this so.
So yeah, I think that's how Iencourage myself.
Thank you, afra.
Speaker 4 (38:24):
I learn a lot from my students, I have to be honest.
They challenge me at times andthey ask you know, especially in
the senior class when they comeup with the research topics.
Sometimes I have to researchand educate myself in order to
assist them or work alongsidethem to kind of further develop
and find references for them,and so on.
(38:46):
So I'm always learning as I'mteaching.
That's one Personally and in myart practice, I try to make
sure that I go to residencies,do programs in order to not only
learn new skills but alsoexpose myself to an alternative
(39:06):
art scene, because this couldeasily be a comfortable bubble,
of course, and I think that it'svery important to challenge
what we know and challenge whatwe've learned here, but also
become aware of how other artscenes function and maybe how
they're challenged, how theystruggle, how they navigate the
(39:31):
art scene in their heart.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
That's a very good point.
Speaker 4 (39:34):
yes, yeah, and in that I travel a lot to also
visit alternative institutions.
Not only that, but likegrassroots-run organizations, I
think these are important andthat's where movements happen,
and so at least, yeah, that'show I keep up.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
I think that's a great point.
To avoid stagnation, you haveto keep going and Janet as the
dean.
I don't know if we need to askyou this as the dean of a case,
but we'd love to hear.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
Yeah.
So I mean it's reallyeverywhere and everyone, and for
me it's really important theconversation and asking those
questions and not being afraidto see what we'll learn from
them and go out of the comfortzone, because we tend to,
especially in institutions,stick within this comfortable
(40:29):
area and change is verydifficult, especially
institutions and trying to pushthat, sometimes in different
ways, by just doing it.
I would even say even theexhibition I mentioned, the
Dubai collection we just started, and I said let's just do it,
let's start it and work out therest as as it goes.
So I think for me, workingalongside Afra, for example,
(40:54):
different generations and seeingthe growth I learned from her,
from Alia working out in adifferent sector of education,
and I think together it's theecosystem that really we need to
continue paying attention from.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
Thank you so much.
Thank you to every single oneof you for taking the time to
talk about this incredible topicand actually give us your true
insights and all of your tipsand make sure that you can all
listen to this podcast on thecuration, and I just want to
thank every single one of youagain, Janet Afra Alia, for your
(41:32):
time.
Thank you, Thank you.
Thank you so much.
Welcome to the Curation, a show for the
culturally curious.
This is your host, noor Hassan.
Each week, I'll guide youthrough a curated edit of the
finest in art, fashion, design,culture, luxury, wellness, tech
and more.
This is your go-to space fordiscovering trailblazing ideas,
untold stories and meaningfulconversations with innovators
(00:29):
and creators who are shaping ourworld.
There's no gatekeeping here, sosit back, tune in and let's
discover only the best together.
We're proud to launch thisspecial episode of the Curation
(00:51):
Podcast in collaboration withHuna Living, recorded live at
Art Dubai 2025.
As part of ARM Holding, hunaredefines elevated living
through lifestyle-focusedcommunities that blend artistry,
design and sustainability.
In this talk, afra DhaheriahHussain Luta and Janet Bellotto
explore the intersections of art, education and contemporary
pedagogies in the UAE and beyond.
(01:13):
We speak about theirexperiences as artists,
educators and mentors and theimportance of education and art
in the contemporary landscapeand as part of a greater
ecosystem.
Without further ado, this is mytalk with Afra, Alia and Janet.
I hope you enjoy and I lookforward to sharing more of these
conversations with you on theCuration Podcast.
(01:42):
Hello everyone, welcome to theHuna Lounge.
This is our Huna Talks with theCuration series and I really
wanted to start this seriestoday by introducing my guests.
First of all and I believe thistalk is potentially the most
important that we will behosting on the Curation on
education in specific, becauseit's a topic that I'm very
(02:05):
passionate about personally,coming from a very institutional
background as well as aneducation-focused background.
As a speaker, as a journalistmyself, I really believe that
it's important to get all theinformation from the source, so
I'd love to introduce myspeakers, my guests today.
Speakers my guests today.
(02:28):
First, janet Bellotto, the Deanof CAS at Zayed University.
Afra Daghiri, incredible artist, and dear friend Alia Luta,
incredible artist as well, andboth from the Emirates, so
really honored to have you bothhere today.
So I'd love for you to startjust by briefly introducing
yourselves to the audience andwe'll get into our conversation
together.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Thank you, noor, and thank you for this really
important conversation and I'mhappy that we can all be here
together from our differentperspectives.
So I'm the Dean just startedthis year at the College of Arts
and Creative Enterprises atZayed University, but I've been
teaching here in the UAE since2006, the same year, academic
(03:12):
year that Art Dubai started.
So I remember when it was firstlaunched here in 2007.
And I think the second year Iwas actually here talking about
art education.
I think the second year I wasactually here talking about art
education.
So, almost 20 years later, tohave this conversation with
(03:32):
local young artists whose workyou've seen last year in the
fair is quite exciting.
I'm also an artist by practiceand I play several roles also,
sometimes curating exhibitionsfor cultural exchange and yeah,
that's me Incredible.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Thank you, afra.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
Hi, my name is Afra Dahri and I'm a visual artist
based in Abu Dhabi.
I'm also an educator I'm afaculty at Zayed University as
well and I do remember Janetfrom.
I took some classes in ZayedUniversity in Dubai at the time
and I remember seeing Janet, soit's also like really
(04:11):
heartwarming to be kind ofwitnessing all the developments
in the art scene and being ableto come back and contribute in
this way.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Yeah, Thank you, alia .
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Hi, my name is Alia Hussain Luta.
I'm a full-time artist based inDubai.
I'm also the co-founder ofMedav Studio, which is an art
center that aims to spread artand educate children as well as
adults about art.
Our aim is making artaccessible.
(04:46):
So yeah, that's about it.
And actually I know Afra.
We were in a fellowship programas well, thank you.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
So I think the very first question for all of you
and I'd love for us to eachindividually answer it is what
is the importance of educationin art?
Because I think there is adiscourse where many people do
believe, of course you can beginyour career by practice, but
(05:17):
where is that space whereeducation fits in and how
important is it in your youropinion, of course, that's a
very good question and we mightbe a little bit biased about
that, but art in education isnot just about the professional
(05:37):
practice.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
It really needs to be embedded throughout, from
children when they're playingaround with materials.
It's another way to learn andsee the world differently.
So, and I've seen changes herein the UAE as art has been more
(05:58):
embedded, as art has become morepart of the dialogue at every
level, and I think without thatwe're missing something very
important become more part ofthe dialogue at every level, and
I think without that we'remissing something very important
and how that might grow, andhow someone might be inspired
and draw from the time thatthey're very young and bring
(06:21):
that back into the community indifferent ways.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Yes, and Afra, I have seen you at your studio
physically educating andshowcasing and showing people
how it's done and being a partof it.
You're very hands-on and Ireally believe that that makes
such a difference.
But can you talk to us moreabout that, because I think
being present while educatingand mentoring it's it's a really
(06:47):
important part of it.
Speaker 4 (06:50):
yeah, um, I think it plays, uh like a, it creates a
circle.
You know it's a cycle that youknow goes round and round.
And I think, um, when I was astudent, I felt like I wanted at
the time to intern, for example, at an artist studio.
I wanted to have experience inpractice and not just working at
(07:15):
an institution like a museum oran art organization, and so,
while at the time there weren'tmany artists that had their
studios open to accept that kindof apprenticeship, Okay.
And so I really wanted to firstgive back to the institution
(07:39):
that I actually started myeducation and was instrumental
in me choosing to go into thearts.
I started actually at ZayedUniversity studying financial
accounting Interesting.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
That's a plot twist.
Speaker 4 (07:56):
Yeah, but I thank my advisor at the time who said you
know you should try arts.
I went to him not knowing youshould try arts.
I went to him not knowing.
At some point I said, well, I'mnot sure this is for me, so can
I try something else?
And he suggested art and Ilaughed at the time.
I said I never drew, I neverpainted.
Like what do you mean?
I took his advice and I tookfoundation courses and I was
(08:19):
like a kid in a candy store.
So the story can tell itselffrom there.
But going back to that moment,I felt like it's important to
come back and give more to thisinstitution that had a hand in
my career today.
But I also felt like I wantedto open doors to students, to
(08:43):
young artists, to participate inthe production process, to
witness and understand what ittakes to go and develop a
proposal, then take it toinstall.
How you put a team together toactually manage a particular
project.
What does creating programmingaround a project mean?
And so I've opened my studio asa space for students to also
(09:06):
come and intern and take part inthese.
In this process but not onlyfor myself I've also opened door
for students to go and mentorwith my fellow colleagues.
I mean, alia knows this.
I always ask does anyone needan intern?
Is Is anyone?
interested in teaching someone,and I think that this is a very
(09:29):
important way of learning asartists.
You know, we can easily justhide in our studios, but I think
it's really important in thescene particularly that we also
pass it on and we also share.
I think our scene is verycommunity-based and that's
important.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Yes, and I think, honestly, the work that you're
doing, and Janet and Alia, is abig part of creating that
community.
Not only so, but making peopleopen to mentorship, open to
guidance, open to howlife-changing it can be for
someone to tell you what aboutgoing to the arts department,
which is something perhaps younever thought of or no one ever
(10:08):
told you, and then you might nothave ended up there without the
power of that educationalbackground.
So, alia, I definitely saw youat the children's program,
mentoring and educating yourself.
Can you tell us more, please,about how the role of education
has played a big part in yourcareer?
Speaker 3 (10:26):
So definitely.
I mean for me.
As a child, I used tocommunicate through drawings.
I've always struggled with thelearning, with math, science,
and I was able to understand how, how, why and why.
Was I not good at something?
But I was good at art andgrowing up we never thought that
(10:48):
we could have a career in thearts and that's why I think when
I went to.
Zayed University, I did notstudy art.
I graduated with PR andadvertising, thinking that this
is an official career.
I will have an official job andthat's what I'm supposed to do.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
So originally accounting and PR and
advertising.
I think this actually is areally interesting start to the
story to be honest yeah,definitely.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
And after graduating I realized that I've always been
passionate about art and movingforward.
Now I created my own center.
Now I created my own center andI wanted to have children like
me, who had difficultyexpressing themselves, have a
place to feel like it's okay toexpress yourself and there's no
(11:36):
wrong and right.
I think that's what's reallyimportant to me, because growing
up, we always felt like this isthe wrong thing to do and this
is the right thing, and I thinkin art there's no right or wrong
, and that's what I think reallyshapes what I do every day.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Yes, and I think I really want to take it back to
Janice here and what Afra andAlia just said really kind of
touches on the point oftraditional education said
really kind of touches on thepoint of traditional education,
traditional arts education,versus something that is a
little bit more contemporary anda little bit more involved.
So what are your thoughts onthat at Zayed University?
Like how can we really involve,like you said, the community,
(12:16):
the artists and every otherfundamental individual around
that ecosystem?
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Yeah, the ecosystem is quite important and actually
we're in dialogue right nowabout we need to change Some of
the things that we've beenteaching.
Let's say, traditionally stillhas been built from models that
were developed decades ago.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
Can you give?
Speaker 2 (12:41):
us examples if possible at all.
Yeah, some examples.
So you know we have courses inArt Foundation, so the first
courses students take and onething that Afra said is we've
always been with the ethos ofbuilding students' appreciation,
(13:01):
but also their capabilities,with tools.
So you might not, like Afrasaid, you didn't do any drawing
or practice in that sense, butwe have the tools and we help
you, guide and use those tools,but it's been sort of very a
(13:22):
concrete base and not reallybringing that outside of the
classroom.
Yes, and and I think we'rechanging more as facilitators in
education rather than just awe're at the front and lecturing
about something anddemonstrating, so it's a more
proactive approach.
So now we're taking alsocombining more various
(13:43):
disciplines like design anddigital fabrication and seeing
what students can do with themand allow them to push those
boundaries.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
Thank you.
So I would love Afra to extendfurther on the idea of what can
be done that is more helpful tothe students.
If you were a student, what doyou wish you would have had
access to?
Because I know that you've doneincredible programs and kind of
practices, I believe ineducation that are it's not
really just like let us drawstill life or let us read a
(14:16):
certain book, but what are somepractices that really made a
difference with you and yourcareer?
Speaker 4 (14:23):
I mean the Sheikh Salama Emerging Artist
Fellowship, was instrumental,you know, and it's a program
where Meen Alia met for thefirst time and I think that,
having access to programs withmodules as such and the model of
the SEAF program, the way itruns is that it's based on a
(14:46):
five individual five models thatrun throughout nine months and
they're intensive models.
Each week of that model is tiedaround one assignment, one
assessment and that assignmentis collectively created by the
cohort and they produce itwithin that week, and it
(15:09):
includes feedback, it includescritique, it includes going
outside of the studios, visitingsites that associate with the
topic, for example.
I think the more like whatJeanne was saying, in ways that
we're trying to, for example.
I think the more like what Jantwas saying in in ways that
we're trying to, for example,engage and collaborate with
(15:30):
other alternative institutionsand what we have access to.
And I think that today we'revery lucky I keep saying this to
students and younger artistswe're so lucky to be practicing
in the art scene today becausewe have so many resources.
We have institutions, museumsthat also function in adding to
(15:51):
the academic understanding ofart and culture right.
But then we also have grantsthat allow us to challenge what
is normal and challenge what isart today, and I think that we
have that kind of power inactually influencing our
(16:14):
students to aim for more thanwhat we are presenting today,
and there are support systemsfor that.
Lourdes sorry if.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
I can add to that Because the ecosystem continues
to grow.
There's many more diverseinstitutions that have developed
foundations, dubai Culture, dctthat have enlarged, allowed
artists the opportunity andthere's still more room for this
adaptation.
One example, too what we'vebeen doing is bringing students
(16:45):
out in the field, and theexhibition that Zayed University
students curated with the Dubaicollection has been the first
collaboration on a larger scalewith Dubai culture and Art Dubai
.
So bringing the practice inclass out to the practice in the
field and that becomes theinspiration for others in the
(17:06):
community and young artists areinspiring students to see the
potential of also their futurein arts and culture.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Yeah, I think that's a really interesting point
because that makes the visioncome to life.
It makes it possible for ayoung artist to actually see
what the reality of the end ofthis process looks like.
So thank you for those twoincredible points.
I want to ask, alia, so thejourney of Sif, first of all, I
(17:40):
mean I would love to know, aswell as Afra did tell us its
impact on you as an alternativeform of education, of becoming
as an artist, and then not justthat, how you felt it was
important to mentor after thatartists, because I feel like not
, it's not the natural course.
Not every artist must become amentor and not every mentor
(18:01):
should become an artist.
It's not always that way.
So can you tell us a bit moreabout it?
Speaker 3 (18:06):
I think the program was instrumental, especially
that I did not take art as amaster or a diploma in
university.
It was like an extra thing thatI can do to push me towards my
goal.
It really gave me anunderstanding of the community
and culture, of what is anartist and how to be an artist,
(18:29):
and definitely highlighted theart practice in the studio
rather than just the end result.
I think for me that was themost important take from this
program.
On top of that is meetingamazing artists.
I mean, in the end of the day,we're a small community and we
really build by connecting witheach other, learning from each
(18:49):
other, and that was the best.
I've always said that the bestthing about the art community
here in the UAE is everyone isthere to help you if you just
ask, especially from not havingthe experience in, for example,
ceramics or other material.
I would ask my friend who's anartist.
She would teach me, or Salamawould teach me printmaking.
(19:11):
I think this natural want toteach and share information is
such a neat thing in everyartist, and wanting everyone to
success and use other materialis something really beautiful
about the community of artistswe have.
I think that's what reallyreally shaped my practice.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Yes, and not just that.
I think that maybe from beingyounger artists, I really
believe you already kind of haveexperienced a very big arch in
what has happened.
A lot has happened in the pastfew years and you years and you
always say after that you arevery lucky to be, you know,
practicing at the moment.
So I would love to know fromyou, when you're teaching
(19:55):
students at Zayed University,for example, what do you feel
their biggest wants and needsare from the educational system?
Like what do you think thatthey crave more of?
Speaker 4 (20:07):
wow, I saw one of our students here really, that's
amazing um, personally, I getasked a lot of like how do we do
this, how did you?
You do it?
You know, and I'm always in awewhen I'm asked this question I
(20:29):
obviously sit and I give a lotof my time to actually propose
ideas or suggest apost-graduation plan.
I teach the seniors as well, sothere's a lot of mentorship in
that course, getting them to thefinish line and finally
(20:51):
presenting their final projects.
But I do talk to them a lotabout the opportunities that
await them and, as I saidearlier, there's a lot of
opportunities now compared towhen I graduated, for example,
in 2011.
And, for example, we have I'lltalk about Abu Dhabi.
(21:14):
For example, there's theCultural Foundation residency.
They can apply to see ifthey're nominated, for example
and as faculty, a lot of us arenominators anyway, so we always
nominate our students.
There's the 421 residency aswell, of course.
There's a lot happening thatthey can.
(21:35):
I mean, jamil offers, you know,the young.
What is it called?
Yeah, I forgot Young, something,something, sorry the youth
assembly, the young assembly,the youth assembly yeah, the
youth assembly, which allows ourartists to not only participate
(21:55):
uh as artists and show theirwork, but they can also
participate in uh proposingcuratorial ideas and they can
curate their other you knowfriends and so on, which really
opens doors for them to think.
One of the things I get askedabout a lot is how did you start
your studio space, for example?
(22:17):
or how do we, where do we go,how do we start?
And I've always encouragedstarting as a group, and I
started as a group.
We had a space called B815,which I co-founded with Hashim
Lemke, maitha Abdullah andZuhura Sayegh.
So there was that as an exampleand we had many students who
(22:39):
had interned with us there andthen started their own spaces.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
So, for example, studio Arisha right now studio
Untitled, like these are allexamples of places that actually
came out of these kind ofconversations of how do we do it
and where do we start and Ilove, first of all, that you
answer these conversations, thatyou answer these questions,
because I think there's there isquite a bit of gatekeeping in
(23:05):
the arts world and I feel someartists do find it difficult to
kind of share the whole process.
But I think you're one of theartists that really does and you
show it and I love that.
I think it's incredible.
So, janet, I would love for youto tell us a little bit more
about CASE, because I think itwould be helpful to understand,
kind of how this entiredepartment of Zayas University
(23:28):
kind of fuels that creativeecosystem, like we said at the
beginning.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Yes, oh, that's a long story.
I don't know if we have allthat time.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
You can give us the brief.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
I will give you a brief.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
You know we're a complete studio-based program,
visual arts and design programs.
We've been 1998, zayedUniversity was established for
an all-female university, andaround 2003, they started with
design because the industry hadopportunities for that.
(24:04):
So that was easy to comprehend.
But as the ecosystem grew inDubai, so did our programs, so
did the ability to advocate theneed for this.
So we went from a department ofart to a college of art and
creative enterprises and wecontinued to transform.
So one of the important thingsand I think, the other
(24:27):
educational institutions here,like NYU, abu Dhabi, sharjah
University, american Universityof Sharjah, american University,
dubai we all have a role toplay and there's still room to
grow.
So, going from an undergraduateinstitution, we're working now
(24:47):
on graduate programs andconnecting more with the
community.
You know, one of the thingsthat we recently asked students
you know what's most importantto them from our program is
community, their ability to talkto each other, to talk with
their faculty and those that weinvite to come and talk with our
(25:12):
students.
It's really important.
I hope we can findopportunities to engage more and
I think that's where things aregoing, because once you go out
into the real world, things aredifferent.
You're not in these silos, andthat's one thing, I think we
need to also expand on and befluid, because that's the
(25:33):
conversations that are going ontoday and, yeah, Thank you.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
So a question I really wanted to ask, alia, is
you know, I saw you just withthe children's program, the ARM
children's program, and sort ofworking with the children,
getting them to sort of bringtheir creative juices out, and
in a very curated and wonderfulway.
(26:02):
Curated and wonderful way.
So I just want to know what doyou think the importance is?
To sort of allow children to becreative from a young age,
something that perhaps neitheryou or Afra had an opportunity
to do, and so you had to kind ofnot play catch-up in that sense
.
But how important is it and andhow is it that you actually go
(26:23):
about working with such youngerminds?
Speaker 3 (26:27):
I mean it's really important to expose children
from a young age to materialsallowing them to use, explore,
play with and be adventurous andreally explain to them that
there is no right and wrong,because I feel that because of
the, the classic discipline ofart, especially from a very
(26:48):
young age, limits that.
And from my experience, I mean,when I meet someone and I tell
them I'm an artist, the firstthing they tell me oh, I don't
know how to paint, I don't knowhow to draw, and I was like, yes
, I was like what did your artteacher tell you as a kid?
But they're like, yeah, shedidn't, she didn't like my
drawing.
That's the first thing they say.
That's really sad and that'severy question I ask.
(27:11):
That's the common answer I haveand that's why I really believe
that it's very vital for theyoung minds is not to limit them
and really encourage creativethinking, allowing them to make
mistakes.
I feel that's the purpose I amhere in the world is to tell
children it's okay to makemistakes and it really shocks
(27:33):
them.
Sometimes I give them taskslike draw outside the line, or
you're only allowed to drawoutside the line, and they're
like what is wrong with her?
So I think it's trying to changethis mindset of it's okay to
make mistakes.
Maybe you will learn the skillslater on, but as a young mind
that's the purpose you areallowed to make mistakes, you
(27:56):
are allowed to play, you areallowed to put materials that
don't make sense together, and Ifeel that's that's what the
whole purpose of me to givingworkshops or teaching children
at a young age amazing.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
I love that incredible.
So okay, on the point of playactually I'll take a tafra here
I think your work really is suchan epitome of what the essence
of play is, how you can becomean interdisciplinary, human and
kind of play with sight, sound,voice, all of the senses.
(28:31):
I'd love you to tell us alittle bit more about that.
I think it's a differentapproach, I think it's such a
unique approach and it makes artI hate using the word
accessible, but I think it's aword that really your work can
embody and it's a beautifulthing.
So can you tell us a bit moreabout how you got to that point
(28:53):
in your art?
Speaker 4 (28:56):
It's a very good question.
I mean these works that you'retalking about, the collective
exhaustion and deconstructingcollective exhaustion, which are
immersive experiences that I'vedeveloped, installations that
include sound and light, that isengineered in a way that
actually loops the easiest wayto describe it is like a shuffle
(29:16):
.
It's never the same, so itactually invites the audience to
stay in that place for longermoments of time.
For every person, who, anindividual who would experience
it, I'm kind of providing aspace for them to have their own
interpretation, their ownexperience, so everyone would
have a completely differentexperience at different timings
(29:39):
when they attend the work.
One of the reasons that Iembarked on this journey and
found myself kind of handsitching, wanting to try
something new, and I got boredof what I was doing Simple.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
Yes, tell us more.
Speaker 4 (29:59):
I mean not to demean my practice, but I felt like I
got too good at using mymateriality and I've established
a language that I became sofluent at Right and I went I can
easily, you know, put materialstogether and make meaning out
of them and make them make sense, and people would enjoy them.
(30:22):
And at some point I was likeand then what?
Yeah, and I wanted more, and I,you know, my hands were itching
.
I wanted something thatchallenges me.
I wanted something that likewhat else can I learn?
And I started observing ourinteraction when, as an audience
, how much time we spend inexhibition spaces, and I
(30:46):
realized that, if not anchoredby a conversation, sometimes we
just pull up our phone, takepictures and leave.
So then what happened to feelingart?
What happened to art havingactually an impact or a
resonance on us?
And so I went into a bit morepsychology and philosophy and I
started reading a lot of ByungChul Han, specifically like the
(31:10):
scent of time, and it talks alot about our relationship to
time, and there's a lot ofimpatience in the, in the, in
the pace that we're living at atthe moment, and so I wanted to
take people back to activatingtheir senses.
How can I create a peace thatpeople actually experience, not
(31:32):
only with their eye and actuallywith their skin, with their
hearing, and so I referenced itto a walk in the forest.
It's so invigorating and youleave refreshed.
Why?
Because you activate the senses, not only the five, but all the
ones that we don't talk about,and so I wanted to create that.
(31:54):
And people leaving that spacemaybe they don't necessarily get
triggered or remembereverything at once, but maybe
they'll walk into a space thathas a similar lighting and it
will trigger that work.
Maybe they listen to a certainkey or score and they might go
back to that place, so they takesomething with them that they
(32:16):
don't necessarily understand.
Sorry, it was such a longanswer.
No, no, this is how I got there,but where I went to a program
in the States Watermill ArtCenter and I did a summer
program there that you knowserved the itching yes.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
No, honestly, I love your answer and I will never
forget when you were working onthis project and we were at your
studio and you told me I'mgoing to show people what it
feels like after burnout orafter just feeling exhausted,
and I think it's kind of anawakening, really, like you make
(32:55):
people wake up, use your sensesactually kind of really
interact with the arts.
And I mean, going back to whatAlia said, getting out of the
box, why are we in the box?
Yes, and it's really why we'rehere, it's why we're talking
about this, I think, for my lastcouple of questions, for all of
you, even though I could reallytalk about this topic for hours
(33:18):
, janet, I'd love for you toshare with us.
I mean, at Zayed University,like you said, there's so much
going on.
What are the you know kind ofartists that you're looking to
work with in the future?
I mean like artists that youfeel will not specifically.
I'm not talking to say whoexactly, but the kind of mindset
(33:39):
that you're looking to instillin the students and just to make
sure that the redirection ishappening.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
Yeah, Well, that's what we're trying to decide
right now or discuss, but Ithink a few things is also
reflecting back what we seehappening in the community and
in the region especially, andsome of the conversations that
I've had going to seeexhibitions and participating in
(34:06):
these kind of dialogues, andone thing that first comes to
mind is performance and thinkingabout also Afra's installation
in Abu Dhabi really resonateswith that music or sound,
computational sound.
(34:27):
So artists that are doing, Ithink, in the digital art fair
right now.
So bringing in a dialogue thatwe're already not teaching or we
don't have expertise in becauseyou know we have limitations
that way.
But another way to bring theconversation forward, to bring
another opportunity to teach oropen that dialogue for us to
(34:48):
rethink, is to bring thosevoices in there.
And also, you know what'selsewhere, what's the global
conversations about, of course,and one of the things that's
close to my heart is climateresilience.
You know, we've just had Expo2020, I mean a few years ago now
(35:08):
but the conversations that arehappening with the Ministry of
Culture and the Ministry ofClimate Change Change and
bringing those two together.
So if that's happening, we needto be having those conversations
now in the institutions and wesee that with artists already
practicing.
But how does that translate?
So, if we can haveconversations, if we can work
(35:29):
with institutions to bring thoseindividuals, those experts,
internally talk to thescientists that are also doing
things to have that conversationand, as well, bring our
students out so for them to seethat happening in the field, and
I think that's where, at ZayedUniversity, we're really looking
(35:51):
towards, or those are the kindof individuals we can invite and
like events like Art Dubai.
There's there's experts,whether they're practicing
artists or designers orarchitects.
All of those should beintegrated and not integrated,
but brought in and talking toall the students across all
disciplines, and they, and, Ithink, working with the
(36:14):
galleries, the museums, thecurators, whether in the
institution or independent, ishow I'd like to sort of take the
next steps forward.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
I think that sounds incredible and also very
inspirational.
I think performance.
You really nailed it on thatone.
I think a lot of people arereally definitely even in the
fair you see the pieces that themore you can interact
especially for children and foradults too it's really the more
you can get emotionallyconnected to the art.
(36:47):
And so my last question forevery single one of you is a
question I believe my audiencewill always want me to ask and
always cherish.
We're very detail-oriented atthe curation.
How is it that you make surethat you self-educate yourself?
What are your practices and anyadvice you could give, not
(37:09):
specifically on education, notonly in art, but what are your
ways to make sure that you stayrefreshed and educated?
And any one of you can startthere Me, alia.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
I mean, I get definitely inspired by my fellow
artists If, walking through thefair, we take images of the
artist's name research thatwho's the new artist there.
So I think that really helpedme get to know my environment.
At the end of the day, learningdoes not finish.
You have to keep learning andeducating yourself, either
(37:42):
through online or throughmeeting people.
Which is the easiest part ismeeting actual artists and
getting to know them.
I think that's the mostenjoyable experience in learning
when you actually meet artistsand ask them what material you
use, how long do you work on awork?
When did this finish?
I mean, this information reallyboosts me and then I'm like,
(38:03):
okay, what can I do?
What else can I do?
We met an artist yesterday.
He spends 10 hours a daypainting and.
I'm like that's not what I doand maybe I should do this so.
So yeah, I think that's how Iencourage myself.
Thank you, afra.
Speaker 4 (38:24):
I learn a lot from my students, I have to be honest.
They challenge me at times andthey ask you know, especially in
the senior class when they comeup with the research topics.
Sometimes I have to researchand educate myself in order to
assist them or work alongsidethem to kind of further develop
and find references for them,and so on.
(38:46):
So I'm always learning as I'mteaching.
That's one Personally and in myart practice, I try to make
sure that I go to residencies,do programs in order to not only
learn new skills but alsoexpose myself to an alternative
(39:06):
art scene, because this couldeasily be a comfortable bubble,
of course, and I think that it'svery important to challenge
what we know and challenge whatwe've learned here, but also
become aware of how other artscenes function and maybe how
they're challenged, how theystruggle, how they navigate the
(39:31):
art scene in their heart.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
That's a very good point.
Speaker 4 (39:34):
yes, yeah, and in that I travel a lot to also
visit alternative institutions.
Not only that, but likegrassroots-run organizations, I
think these are important andthat's where movements happen,
and so at least, yeah, that'show I keep up.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
I think that's a great point.
To avoid stagnation, you haveto keep going and Janet as the
dean.
I don't know if we need to askyou this as the dean of a case,
but we'd love to hear.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
Yeah.
So I mean it's reallyeverywhere and everyone, and for
me it's really important theconversation and asking those
questions and not being afraidto see what we'll learn from
them and go out of the comfortzone, because we tend to,
especially in institutions,stick within this comfortable
(40:29):
area and change is verydifficult, especially
institutions and trying to pushthat, sometimes in different
ways, by just doing it.
I would even say even theexhibition I mentioned, the
Dubai collection we just started, and I said let's just do it,
let's start it and work out therest as as it goes.
So I think for me, workingalongside Afra, for example,
(40:54):
different generations and seeingthe growth I learned from her,
from Alia working out in adifferent sector of education,
and I think together it's theecosystem that really we need to
continue paying attention from.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
Thank you so much.
Thank you to every single oneof you for taking the time to
talk about this incredible topicand actually give us your true
insights and all of your tipsand make sure that you can all
listen to this podcast on thecuration, and I just want to
thank every single one of youagain, Janet Afra Alia, for your
(41:32):
time.
Thank you, Thank you.
Thank you so much.
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