January 9, 2025 • 54 mins
PR virtuoso Lamia Kamel graces our latest episode with our founder Nour Hassan, sharing her wisdom on brand building and cultural curation. Listen as she unpacks the essence of creating a reputable brand image and the importance of stepping outside comfort zones for personal and professional growth. Lamia’s insights, drawn from her extensive experience with influential figures and initiatives like CC+ and the Narrative Summit, highlight the vital role of storytelling and collaboration in shaping Egypt’s narrative and the broader Arab world.
Join us as we celebrate the power of mentorship and community engagement. Lamia and I discuss the evolution of public relations in Egypt, the challenges of bridging government and private sectors, and the triumphs of women in the industry. From fashion and personal branding to sustainability and global recognition, perfect for anyone eager to learn from a pioneer in PR.
• Importance of lifelong learning in personal growth
• Misconceptions about PR and its true purpose
• CC+ as a pioneer in the Egyptian PR landscape
• Narrative Summit's role in shaping Egypt's story
• Collaboration between public and private sectors in tourism
• Balancing professional commitments and family life
• Advice for young people on finding their passions
• Significance of personal branding and authenticity
For more PR insights follow @loomykamel and for more information on the Narrative Summit follow @narrativesummit.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Action.
Welcome to the Curation, a showfor the culturally curious.
This is your host, noor Hassan.
Each week, I'll guide youthrough a curated edit of the
finest in art, fashion, design,culture, luxury, wellness, tech
and more.
This is your go-to space fordiscovering trailblazing ideas,
untold stories and meaningfulconversations with innovators
(00:24):
and creators who are shaping ourworld.
There's no gatekeeping here, sosit back, tune in and let's
discover only the best together.
Who is Lamia Kamen?
Speaker 2 (00:35):
for example and ChatGPT.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
It's both me and Elton.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Big part of what they do is to glorify and magnify
the kind of insights you feedthem with.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Because it's real, because it's on ground and you
are a mentor.
I'm very grateful to peoplelike you.
You love the sunset.
Yes, I love the dawn.
I love the beginnings ofanything.
I love the events.
I love the events.
I love the chat.
I love social media.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
We are culturally.
We like chatting, we likesocial media.
We are culturally, we arefamous.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
It's part of who we are.
I didn't have a work-lifebalance.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
I was mostly work.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
It's okay to be low-key.
It will come when it comes.
When we did campaigns, we madePR a full spectrum.
I was lucky because I wasworking with the most important
politician in the Arab region.
He was Sayed Amr Am region.
I was Mr Amr Moussa.
I worked after that in 2014 asthe president.
When I became assistantminister.
I became so passionate.
It has a lot of light.
Yes, you can go anywhere.
(01:30):
You can go anywhere you want.
People treat you with so muchrespect.
You need to get over this.
As soon as I get out of the bag, they tell me I'm going on a
mission difficult to figure out.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Who's the person?
Is that so you're the person?
Pr answer.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
If you gave me the business card, I'll give you the
business card.
Okay, but if you gave me thebusiness card, that's a
professional, okay.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Action.
Okay, I'm now Adam Alamia Kamel, pr guru in the MENA region and
in Egypt.
I was very excited about thisinterview because I feel like a
long time ago and I want to talkto you about not only PR and
communications, but in general,how important it is to build a
(02:18):
brand image and a brandreputation for yourself.
I feel like you are one of themost people that has really done
an incredible job and like notonly you built a brand such as
CC plus and narrative summit andand the brand, but I think
you're really a mentor and aguru in this field.
So thank you for being on thepodcast.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
I'm so proud.
It's my absolute pleasure to bewith you.
I have been, we've been close.
Yes, I've been watching yourcareer and I've been watching
how dedicated and disciplinedand consistent you have been and
women girls were able to createsomething for themselves and
(03:03):
build a brand and support others.
Build it with them.
I think you stand on top ofmany people.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Thank you, lamia, coming from you.
Thank you, but okay, so I wantto ask you the first question
who is Lamia Kamel today?
If you could explain to metoday.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
If you could explain to me today.
I always say to my team and tomy friends and to my colleagues
I want to always be the learner.
I don't want to be stuck in aplace where I think or assume
that I've made it or that I'mthere already, because it's very
(03:46):
tempting to assume so oh my God, look what I've done.
Blah, blah, blah.
And then you get stuck in thiscomfort zone and once you're in
the comfort zone, uh, you, you.
It's really difficult to to um,grow, and I'm a firm believer
that, no matter how big you are,no matter how well you've
achieved for yourself, there isalways room for more as long as
(04:06):
you're alive, as long as thereis a morning coming.
Every day.
I imagine that everyone of us,everyone who is able to get rid
of the boundaries of theposition or the job or the
so-called achievement, becauseso many people have done so much
more and that's what keeps meinspired is by looking at the
(04:27):
legends and what they have doneacross board, be it singers,
actors, scientists,professionals, all those people
who have done so much for theindustries and for the masses.
When I look at these people, itkeeps me grounded.
Yes, because I feel there's somuch that can be done, versus
when I sit down and say I swearI'm good at this, this is great,
(04:50):
very nice, very nice.
When I sit down and write myname, I find myself present and
I write nice things.
This is great.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Speaking of, I'm going to write your name.
To prepare for this episode, Ido a lot of research on every
guest.
And to prepare for this episode, Of course, I do a lot of
research on every guest.
Okay, and I'm still, of course,not only doing research on
guests, but I go to ChatGPT andask who is Lamia Kamel, for
example.
And ChatGPT not only knows you,it wrote me an essay.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
It wrote me an essay.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Everything she founded CC+, and then Narrative
Summit and then, and it took methrough the career and I felt,
wow, that's impressive, becausenot everyone gets this answer,
obviously not everyone at all,and it's an advanced technology,
but still so, this told me alot I was, I was, I was social
(05:41):
or Google or social media ingeneral.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
A big part of what they do is to glorify and
magnify the kind of insights youfeed them with.
Yes, what's really important isthe impact that you have
recognition much more thandigital.
Because, because it's real,because it's on ground, because
(06:05):
you're a human being who'sactually acknowledging something
and and seeing it, andsometimes social can take you to
this parallel world that canconfuse you, of course, but so
when you go on on, like eventsor summits or or conferences or
(06:28):
learning experiences, likeclassrooms, like when you go to
a university, you find all thosestudents listening to you and
wanting to learn more.
I think this is a very importantachievement, because a big part
of our role as people in it topass on, to help others yes, to
help others realize their dreams, and, and this is what we
should do yet, while you'redoing it for yourself, you need
to pass on to help others grow,to help others realize their
dreams, and this is what weshould do.
While you're doing it foryourself, you need to see what
(06:49):
other people are doing andmaterialize it for them and see
how you can be part of that partof their story.
I love that, and maybe this isalso a big part of what I want
to talk about.
Where do you find yourself now?
I think at this point, I owe somuch to the country and to so
much of the Arab world ingeneral.
(07:09):
I never saw Egypt as astandalone country.
I saw Egypt as a big part ofthis community and a big part of
this national Arab narrativethat needs to stand out and I
feel in faces like us, peoplewho are educated, people who,
like us, people who are educated, people who work hard, people
who are genuine.
They need to play a role inprovoking this and showing the
(07:35):
world what this country and whatthis region is capable of, and
a big part of it is storytelling, as you always mentioned.
A big part of it is teachingand working with others and
promoting and workingcommunication and shedding light
on all these amazinginitiatives and projects.
So, when I think about myself,as much as I'm a learner, yes,
(07:56):
but I really like to see mycountry and the entire region
reaching the potential that theydeserve, reaching where they
are, and I think this comes witha lot of collaboration and
engagement.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Bagadda, al-insi Otida is part of the mission, of
the curation not just thepodcast, but the curation that
we're doing with the guests onthe podcast, and you are a
mentor.
This is something else.
You don't downplay that.
This is it.
I loved what you said and,honestly, our audience is
(08:34):
regional.
Yes, due to my upbringing andbackground, the audience is from
saudi, from the uae, from eEgypt.
I feel that, because of this,there's so much to learn from
people like you.
Of course I want to know beforewe get into the nitty-gritty,
before we get into all theincredible things that you've
(08:57):
done, but first I want you totell me what is your morning
routine when you wake up, whenyou wake up.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
What are the details when you wake up?
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Islamia when I have the details.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Before I wake up, I feel very grateful.
I feel like, oh my God, I'm amorning person and that's
because I love the sunset.
Yes, I love the dawn.
I love the dawn, I love thebeginnings of anything, I love
the initiation of everything, Ilove everything small and I see
(09:28):
it grow.
So I wake up in the morningfeeling grateful, feeling
energized.
I love that.
I wake up at around 7am I think.
From 7am to 8am I stay in ameditative position.
I stay focused, I think I dothis and that, and then I move
(09:50):
out of bed and then I start myroutine.
My routine is basically after Ifinish this shot, I have to get
to work.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
I know it sounds a bit crazy, but I have to jump
into work.
There's no in-between like.
Okay, so you're taking an hourfor yourself, but there's
nothing in the middle of thecoffee.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
As it happens, I'm not the type who has to take the
coffee to get up.
I'm the type who gets up andthe coffee will be in the middle
In the water, exactly.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
That's nice.
So, that's real.
And then, while I'm taking mycoffee, I have to check what's
going on in the world.
I have to check the news, Ihave to check my email, I have
to go through my checklist andguess what?
I finish most of my work from 8to 11.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Wow, really.
So you're really a morningperson.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
I finish all my work, I send my emails.
I look at my work, I do my work, I finish all of that and then
I send my emails.
I look at my work, I do my work, I finish this part and then I
exercise.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Wow, I love that.
That's actually so interesting.
And see the first guest, orfrom the first guest.
You told me about this systemand I feel that many of the
books that she read you know,the books that tell you how to
Sharma the 5am club all of themtalk about wake up early and get
the big chunk out of the way.
Out of the way, but it's hard.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
It's hard.
I'll tell you why it's hardBecause we take a long time at
night.
We, as Arab and Egyptian people, love the night a lot, a lot.
I know, if you ask me.
We love going out, we loveevents, we love calling the
phone, we love chatting, we likesocial media.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
We are.
Culturally we are we are, ofcourse, it's part of who we are.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
But I mean and this is not wrong, as long as you
don't do it every day, right, ifyou can do it two or three days
a week and four days, you stickto waking up early, you'll be
fine.
There's no need to be likeforeigners six days a week.
You can't be like foreignersSix days a week.
You have to wake up at 10 andwake up at 6.
It's not necessary.
Maybe 3 or 4 days and 3 dayslike this.
(11:48):
You can split it In the earlydays.
Exercise yes, because I'm afirm believer In exercise.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
I love that it keeps you healthy.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
It keeps you alert, it keeps you happy, it keeps you
energized, it keeps you able todo more.
Unfortunately, we also have Aculture happy, it keeps you
energized, it keeps you able todo more.
Exercise, exercise, exercise,exercise, exercise, exercise,
exercise, exercise, exercise,exercise, exercise, exercise,
exercise, exercise, exercise,exercise, exercise, exercise,
exercise, exercise, exercise,exercise, exercise, exercise,
exercise, exercise, exercise,exercise, exercise, exercise,
exercise, exercise exercise,exercise, exercise, exercise
exercise exercise stretching.
(12:21):
Uh, I think I exercise betweenfour to five times a week.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
That's, that's good, yeah, four to five times.
I mean.
I think you know, so would yousay, that a lot of your success
in life is attributed to in amorning routine established?
Speaker 2 (12:36):
okay, it was mostly a lot of work and a lot of
dedication and discipline and Ididn't have a work-life balance.
I could mostly work.
I used to ask people, I used toask someone work-life balance.
It depends on the time, but atfirst.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
This is nice, this is nice.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
This is the reality, yeah, okay.
You have to choose something.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
Yeah, fair.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
And if you want to really excel, if you really want
to stand out, if you want toreally excel, if you really want
to stand out, then a big chunkof your youth has to be
dedicated to work.
And don't shy away from workingat night and working around the
clock, because it's a phase andI'm telling everyone here this
is not an eternal phase.
Right, work when you can work,because after that you won't be
(13:20):
able to, you'll be too tired,you'll have to work-life balance
.
The best to spend time, moretime with your kids or with your
grandkids.
Do you want to really work hardin your 50s, are we?
Speaker 1 (13:30):
no, no in your 20s and 30s when you're able to yeah
, do it.
But you know what?
The one thing that I reallyreally characterize with you as
lamia is that you have, you havethe passion, masha'allah, you
really do and it's somethingthat is very infectious.
Yeah, you feel it and I thinkthis is something that really
(13:56):
really helps.
But I want to go back a littlebit.
Mikey, can you tell me a bitabout your upbringing in the
sense of did you grow up inEgypt and were you always a very
, let's say, social person?
Did you always know how to talkto people?
Speaker 2 (14:08):
easily.
I'll tell you something veryinteresting.
Growing up, I've grown up inEgypt all my life, but I
traveled a lot with my family.
Growing up, I traveled a lotand I still value travel so much
.
My family, because they're both.
They worked in the ForeignAffairs Ministry of Foreign
Affairs.
My father was a diplomat, sothey have this culture and DNA
(14:33):
which is social and diplomaticand we love people.
We love to treat people withkindness, we love to treat
people with love and we love totravel.
You want to be exposed, youlearn from others, you're not
judgmental, you're tolerant toother people's mindsets.
That helps a lot.
It helps me a lot.
Growing up, I was shy, I wasmore low-key and then, with time
(14:59):
, when someone tells you you'rea shy person, push him to be
more social.
Yes, no, my family never pushedme.
She came alone All of a sudden.
You found it Exactly.
You embrace who, you areInteresting, you feel loved, you
feel accepted.
Yeah, so you grow.
You grow out of everything.
If someone is low-key, he willbe a scum.
(15:22):
This, this stress, yes, doesnot bring the best out of anyone
here blacks, and they embracethat person.
It's okay to be low-key, it'sokay to be quiet, it's okay, but
it will come when it comes.
But you encourage them to playsports, which what my family did
.
They would help me.
(15:42):
We played a little ballet, weplayed a little tennis, we
played a little swimming.
We did all these things.
It's a pleasure, it's apleasure.
So they help you To work onyourself, to be athletic.
They help you To be competitive, right.
I mean A good student in school.
So my family Was veryinterested in studying, very
interested in us.
Not because of books, okay,because when you're a student
(16:06):
you're disciplined.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
That's it.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
You're committed to doing something and delivering
it with quality.
Yeah, when I was younger, Ididn't understand what they
meant.
I thought what does it mean tobe a student?
What do grades mean?
Grades are not important.
What's important to me?
What's important to me is thatI'm a student and I love it.
No, the issue is مهمة بشاطرة فياللي أنا بحبه.
لا هي الموضوع مش مسألة grades.
Right هو الدسيبلين في أن الواحديسحى كل يوم بيعمل حاجة مظبوطة,
(16:29):
بيعملها consistently bedelivered Right وإنت student, ما
انت دورك إيه وإنت student, دوركأنك تذاكر, وتنجح, وتعمل رياضة,
وتب your best.
That's why I always noticedwith my family that they treated
us as siblings differently.
They saw everyone as smart andthey pushed them in this area.
(16:50):
For example, if someone issmart in grades, do your best in
grades.
If someone is smart in sports,push yourself in sports a little
.
So there wasn't a place foreveryone to have A students.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
I love that it depends, but that's not very
Egyptian, can I tell you.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
That's not very Egyptian.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Culturally.
We like to say to you that youwant to be a student and there's
a kind of interaction in thismatter Very much, but would you
say your parents encouraged youto be yourself.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Very much.
They encouraged me to be myselfand they wanted me to.
They put in us A place ofExcellence and consistency and
conscience that a person has aconscience in what he does.
So, no, we don't sleep unlesswe're done.
We wake up in the morning.
We're still awake.
(17:39):
I was a little bit lazy as achild.
I woke up early and, ironically, I woke up early after that.
Very ironic, very, but I don't.
I'll tell you something Veryinteresting I wake up early, but
I don't Go to work early.
Right, I mean, I'm not the typewho in the office At 8.30.
I've never been able to do it.
Yes, and I think A big part ofI mean I was a corporate a big
(18:02):
part of my life.
I was a corporate for three orfour years so I had to go early.
But it wasn't who I am.
I'm more of a creative person.
I like to think about thingsand then I go to meet people the
second half of the day and youexecute on whatever it is
Execute on what I thought of, onwhat you envisioned, exactly.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Very nice.
Okay, I want to get into thebeginning of PR.
Because PR?
I'd love to know what's yourdefinition of PR, because PR is
a very elusive field.
You feel like a lot of peopleunderstand what PR is and work
on it, but I feel like in Egyptin particular, cc+, the agency
(18:43):
that you founded, was a realpioneer in PR, because we didn't
understand much in the marketand, to be honest, there's still
a misunderstanding regardingAPR versus, for example,
marketing and branding and otherthings.
So you're the expert.
Can you tell us what yourdefinition is?
Speaker 2 (19:03):
PR always mess.
Mess with marketing, withbranding, with advertising.
You feel like that in the grayit is.
When I started PR, when Igraduated in 1999, I always
thought that PR is a veryinteresting field that's not yet
fully comprehended.
(19:24):
People don't understand itRight.
When I worked at Vodafone Iworked at Vodafone a little bit
in PR I noticed that there was agap between PR that we see in
books and PR that is done abroadand we are in two banks.
Okay, there was a clear gapbecause people didn't know PR is
about the message.
Yes, and the message is not anadvertising message.
(19:45):
It's more of an indirect,consistent, long-term message
that you build over time.
So it's not about these cups oftea are the best cups of tea in
the world or this detergentwill clean you up.
In three seconds You'll findthis detergent will clean all
your clothes.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
No, I loved what you were saying, so it's a long-term
message.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Exactly when you do PR today, you don't say anything
about yourself, okay.
You have a vision, a certaincontent, a certain positioning,
and then, over time, you work onit through others Interesting
and who are the others, thestakeholders?
So you use the media, you usesocial media.
(20:31):
You use social media, you useyour connections Right.
You use investors.
If you're an institution, youuse your investors.
You use your employees, yourteam, you use all the players
around you to focus on thismessage.
Okay, and this message, youunderstand it.
(20:53):
Later Today, I will talk aboutleadership or I will talk about
quality and creativity.
This is my message.
I work on it.
So I engage with the creatives,I engage with the designers, I
create new products.
I start working on this as PRPR products, by the way.
You create PR products thatsupport this and eventually,
(21:15):
your positioning willmaterialize, because this is the
kind of PR we, as CC Plus,worked on.
You had to work on it with bigmultinational companies who
believe in this.
This is how it started.
And then, in 2016, when we werecelebrating 10 years in the
market, we created a PR product,which is the Narrative Summit.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Which is a storytelling platform that aims
to build the PR of Egypt, notjust PR of companies, exactly so
this is my passion in PR how tomake PR meaningful, to enable
it to have purpose.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
But see, I'm going to tell you something.
I think there's no one who canexplain it like this.
It is so on point, especiallyin the long term, in the
branding and marketing,especially now with social media
.
It's trends, it's gone, it'sdone, it's next, tiktok
especially.
But PR really is the long term,it's the long game, it's the
it's done, it's next TikTokespecially.
But PR really is the long term,it's the long game, it's the
(22:14):
long game and utilizing all ofthat.
I love that.
I think it's so interesting.
I want to know, when youfounded CC+ and then celebrated
10 years, what was a mark inthat span of career for CC+?
Did you feel like, wow, wereally did a big thing in the
market?
Speaker 2 (22:28):
It was the political campaigns actually In 2011 to
2014,.
The company was in the marketfor six years, but we were in
the most important politicalelection campaigns and there was
no one else who was doing it.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
It's an example.
We did a campaign in 2012.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
There were presidential elections.
Now, presidential electionsdon't have no many players in
the presidential elections, butat the time there were players.
There was Amr Moussa, and so on.
It was in its phase in 2011 and2012.
Actually, we were part of this.
So when we did presidentialcampaigns, pr makes a full
(23:08):
spectrum Persona, personality,how he talks, how he responds.
So now the PR is a fullspectrum, yes, persona, how he
speaks, how he responds.
And I was lucky because I wasworking with the most important
politician in the Arab region,mr Amr Moussa.
Wow, he taught us how to dothis.
When you work with an importantperson like that, you learn.
So I was able to apply what Ilearned in this campaign to
(23:29):
other things.
So I worked after that in 2014in the campaign of President
Abdel Fattah el-Sisi.
I was with him in the workgroup.
We weren't the poor people inthe whole campaign, of course,
of course, but we were part ofthe group, of course, and we
were the poor people in themedia.
And then we entered theeconomic conference in 2015.
At that time, egypt wasundergoing a transformation.
(23:55):
Yes, it was a politicaltransformation.
It was a social transformationand it was a phase after the
revolution and after a lot ofthings.
So there was a phase ofbuilding.
We tried to buildinfrastructure.
So I was part of this and Ifelt wow this milestone is
important.
We did not just corporate PR, wealso did political PR and we
were part of a nation brand.
(24:15):
So let's materialize thisjourney and create something
official for the country.
That's called the narrativesummit, by the way, all the
people who do your nation brand.
By the way, bringing people onyour podcast and speaking about
their dreams and visions andputting this on camera is part
(24:37):
of what you're doing for thecountry.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
And I want to know more about Narrative Summit.
So Narrative Summit is aproduct.
It's very, very, very uniqueand it's also one of a kind in
what you do in pr right it isbasically a product of pr, as
you said, and generally, youwant to explain to me what was
the idea of narrative summitwhen you started it.
How did you manage to curatethe perfect mix of guests in
(25:11):
whom I represent to, or I meanbecause they represent Egypt?
Speaker 2 (25:17):
When we came in 2016, .
Cc Plus was 10 years old, right, and we were still feeling that
there was a gap between theperception of Egypt and the
capabilities of Egypt.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
So Egypt is not fully perceived and, at the same time
, there's so much potential.
There's youth potential,entrepreneurship, potential,
creativity out there, in everystep, in every corner, and we're
outside of that.
So the idea of the narrativewas to enable PR.
You wanted to serve yourindustry, definitely, and we are
professionals.
You want to serve your industryDefinitely, and we are
(25:52):
professionals.
You want to show them that youdo something that is of impact.
Yes, so the first thing was Toenable PR and the second thing
how can PR shape the country andimprove the image of the
country?
So we started in 2016, 2016,2017, 2018, until 2023.
It's a summit, a summit thatgathers all these people and
(26:13):
puts content, and puts recipes,and gathers people From the
first minister To the Bank ofthe State, to the heavyweight
businessmen Like Mohamed Mansour, sir Ben Elliot, to the
creatives Diab Omar Hilal All ofthese Were guests on our stage.
(26:34):
Well, ironically, I was never aguest on stage and I never
stood on stage To speak aboutthis.
I was always welcoming thespeakers Interesting.
I am the one Bringing thosepeople.
I am not here to glorify Myselfand to say how amazing I've
done.
No, I'm here to celebrate andto emphasize those speakers
(26:58):
Because you finally want toreach them.
You want to reach these people.
You put points, you putstructure to how things should
be in fashion, in design, insinging, in composing, in
business in sports, everythingyou had, every category, all
recommendations were written.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
When Narrative PR Summit last year it was huge.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
It was huge, yes, although in the room In one of
the big hotels, four seasons,for example.
Post-covid, the appetite haschanged, of course.
(27:40):
It's no longer.
You don't want to go to aconference From 7am until 8pm
and then leave.
You want to go to a destination.
And at that time I benefitedFrom the point that I am and
then leave.
You want to go to a destination.
When I became assistantminister, I was.
I became so passionate abouttourism for the narrative of
(28:02):
2023 was about this, was aboutdestination branding yes, within
the context of leadership aswell.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
Yes, which was soma bay you know which was Soma Bay,
you know.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Which was Soma Bay.
Soma Bay and Soma Bay got soexcited about it so they want it
every year now.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
I take it as fair.
No, but like I'll tell yousomething, I want to go back a
little bit to my experience.
And I want you to tell me aboutyour tenure as Assistant
Minister of the Ministry ofTourism and Antiquities.
Yes, this is a really, reallyimportant role and potentially
something that, you know, not alot of people will get to
(28:39):
experience, and I want to know,honestly, two things what was
the most important thing, forexample, that you learned or
learned from this experience,and what was the hardest thing?
Speaker 2 (28:49):
I want to tell you one thing, Noor.
The government is a difficultexperience, or not difficult,
actually.
It's an experience that peopledon't like to enter.
They complain about it.
They tell you that the money islow, routine red tape.
It's not something people willbe welcome to.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
There are a lot of red flags, as they say, but you
did it, which I think is a majortestament to not only your risk
appetite, but also that youknow how to navigate this.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
So we need to learn the first thing I did when I
went to the ministry.
I went to the ministry and Iknow how to get out of the
ministry and this is the mostimportant thing one must know,
(29:44):
because the ministry can be veryinteresting and it has a lot of
light.
Okay, okay, and I won't staylong.
So you go with this mindsetInteresting, you won't stay long
, you go, do something and teachthe people inside how to
complete it Like a missionMission and the people inside
the ministry.
I'm not the daughter of theministry, I'm here to help the
ministry.
But there are people who cameout of the ministry.
(30:12):
Yes, you have to come.
Yes, definitely, right, right,to at least deliver on something
, to continue.
So that was the mission for me.
(30:32):
I worked with a great leader, drKhadir Al-Anani, who is now the
director of UNESCO.
When I went, I knew who I wasgoing with and I chose this
person because I saw how much hebelieves in Egypt and how
committed he is to the countryand how creative he is.
I'm always after people whohave this nudge for creativity
(30:56):
and people who are out of thebox.
So when I worked with Hassan,he had a vision for the
Graduation Museum he had avision for and we did.
We did the mummies and thekibosh.
I was a big part of it.
I was a part of a big team.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
Definitely.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
For me, yes, yes, definitely, and to glorify this
position.
I didn't know so from thebeginning I knew it was a stage
to give back, to invest in aposition and to glorify this
(31:36):
position.
But people are very afraid ofthe ministry.
When I went, I encouraged a lotof people.
It's a nice thing when you come, you go.
When you come, you volunteerand I encourage all, by the way,
women and men of work to taketime off and work on the
government.
They'll see another side, yes,and it's a challenge Very, and
then the country needs to seenew issues Right and issues.
(31:58):
When I went to the ministryNoor, the first thing I did was
change the position on LinkedInand put my position and put an
email for my department,promotion at Ministry of Tourism
and Tourism Right.
I want to tell you this is avery important topic for us
coming from the private sector.
It was huge for the ministrythat you have an official email,
(32:21):
that there is a person calledLamia Kamel who held the
promotion of the ministry.
A flood it's huge, a flood ofemails came to us.
Yes, fascinating 100opportunities that are available
(32:47):
that are just that.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
You put your email fascinating because it's a point
of access and also credibility,so the two together is okay.
So who do I reach out to?
This is something that, by theway, a lot of people, especially
with countries like Egypt, findit very difficult to figure out
.
Who's the person exactly?
So you're the person, forexample.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
I don't know, this is a few boxes.
Yes that I took this and I wascommitted To the private sector
and to bring this Right Collabbetween the public and the
private.
So I worked a lot With theprivate sector.
Yes, with event managementCompanies.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
And I tried as much as possible To give them support
and, within the context Of whatwe did In the ministry, I think
we've done well and I went tothe private sector, I went to
CC+ and I worked on thenarrative summit edition of 2023
.
But it was a continuation.
If I would narrate my career orwhat I've done.
(33:44):
It's all synergized.
Yes, and this is why you feelthere's a brand being built,
because it was long-term,because it was consistent and
because it was really focused.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
And I would like to know, for example, what is the
most difficult thing you felt inworking in the government
sector.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
Of course there is a gap in speed.
When you want speed, thegovernment is slower.
World course there's a gap inspeed.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
We're used to speed the government is slower
Worldwide, by the way.
This is worldwide.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Yeah, for sure, calibers.
We have a big crisis in Egyptin terms of language.
Definitely, you go to many Arabcountries North Africa, you see
it in Morocco, in Tunisia, inLebanon.
All these countries have alanguage, even across the board,
and Egypt was like that, by theway, in the past.
Egypt, if you meet anyone,simple he speaks English.
(34:38):
In the past, we had a bigcrisis in education, so we lost
the language.
Language is a very importantthing.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
So we lost the idea of accessibility the idea of
access to bridge borders,exactly.
Okay, so I want to go back alittle bit with you to not just
Narrative Summit, but I want toknow you won the Biz Award in
2023, right, and it's a bigthing.
It's a big, big award, not justthis award.
(35:07):
Honestly, you've had manyawards and recognitions in PR
and media across the region andlocally.
What was the most memorablemoment in your career that you
felt was a moment that is bothmemorable and also felt like it
changed something in PR in Egypt?
I mean in PR in the country,thinking about PR in general,
(35:29):
Whether it was a company youworked with or a person who
adopted a strategy or anythinglike that.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
Look, noor, I'll tell you something.
I'll tell you something veryprofessional and I'll tell you
something very emotional.
Tell me Please, professionally,I've never competed with anyone
.
I mean, I've never looked atanyone and saw who was doing
(36:05):
what.
Yes, I was always focused onwhat I.
Yes, I was always looking atglobal standards, global
standards.
I was always looking at it andsaying how do my friends see me?
How do my friends see me?
We see each other and werespect each other because we're
nice.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
Definitely it's sweet .
Speaker 2 (36:23):
But professionally, you want to aim for the best,
and I always looked at the West.
I always looked at those whowere able to do things, who are
much more developed than us.
These are the people I waslooking for, their recognition,
and they saw me.
For me, this moment was lastyear, in 2023, october, when Sir
Ben Elliott, the founder ofQuantessentially and a great
(36:47):
businessman, and Sir MohamedMansour also most of his work is
abroad.
Now Come and tell him wow,lamia, you've done amazing work.
It's like I'm sitting in LA orin.
That was my recognition,because it comes from people who
are exposed and it comes fromthose who have seen it, and they
(37:09):
don't say that to make me happy.
They're coming next year, thenext year.
They want to come back.
They want us to be with you insomething like this.
We believe in you.
We believe in you.
You're trying to do a good job.
You're genuine about it.
So that was an important pointfor me.
When you push yourself toachieve global standards and to
speak globally with the globallanguage, that puts you in a
(37:29):
different place or puts yourcountry and your community in a
different place.
The emotional part.
The emotional part my kids.
I want to tell you somethingvery interesting.
Yes, when I go to my children'sschool and I talk to them, they
bring me sometimes inconferences and things like that
, motivational speeches.
That's beautiful In high schoolPeople get out of school.
Yeah, so I.
So I talk to them and I givethem a speech.
(37:51):
For example, a girl who is 14,or my son when he was in school.
Back then, mommy, they fell inlove with you.
They really liked what you saidwhen your kids come to you and
tell you we're proud of you.
It means so much becausegrowing up I was not there most
of the time because I was busy.
I tried to give them qualitytime but I wasn't a kitchen mom
(38:11):
I wasn't a sandwich mom theremost of the time because I was
busy.
I tried to give them qualitytime, yes, but I wasn't a
kitchen mom, I wasn't a sandwichmom.
I tried as much as possible tobe in the training with them.
I attended all the parents'meetings but I could have done
more right.
So then you have a feeling that, oh my God, I wish I did more.
So when they tell you, oh myGod, I'm so proud of you, look
at.
So when they tell you, oh myGod, we're so proud of you, look
at what you've done, you feelrecognition.
(38:31):
Yes, and I think this standsabove any recognition.
When your kids realize thatwhat you've done was with
purpose and you did not do itbecause it took time and I
wasn't busy, because I was goingto the parties and going out
with my friends, I was actuallytrying to do something for you
(38:52):
and for the industry and for youto be proud one day For Noma,
you recognize that it wassomething really big for me.
Speaker 1 (38:59):
That's amazing and, honestly, it takes me to my next
question, which is you've doneall of these incredible
businesses and positions,including CC+, narrative Summit,
assistant Minister of Tourismand Antiquities, and, of course,
you have other verticals likeFlair Magazine from CC+, but
(39:20):
Aiza Araf for your kids, forexample.
As a mother, what advice do yougive them when they come to you
and they say, for example, I'mnot sure exactly what I want to
do in the future?
Speaker 2 (39:29):
Or.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
Aiza Araf.
I don't know if Aiza the futureor when I grow up.
Typical sort of things that wego through.
What's your advice?
Speaker 2 (39:41):
it happened and my advice would always be it's a
journey, you won't have all theanswers right now and there's
absolutely no point stressingyourself out, but the point is
to do what you need to do, andit's a day at a time.
Yes, now what you need to do isto focus on your grades, to
(40:03):
focus on your sports, to focuson your health.
That's what you need to dodon't do anything stupid.
Don't do anything that you'llregret later the.
PR answer.
At one point you want to go tothis party and have a great time
, but you do what you need to doand it will come.
It will come because, as longas you're in peace with yourself
(40:24):
, you and you will know thatwhat makes you glow, what makes
you sparkle?
Yes, is it communication?
Is it, uh, photoshops, doinglike creative things, is it?
Is it, um, is it when you meetpeople that makes you shine?
Speaker 1 (40:53):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
This is what you should be looking for.
It doesn't come in your 20s, bythe way.
In your 20s, you're stilldelusional, you're still trying
things out, you're still tryingto achieve, but there's a
certain moment where you say, ohmy God, I love this.
And when this moment comes,this is what you need to do.
(41:14):
A question would be will itmake me rich?
Is it worth it?
Because this generation is allabout making money.
Yeah, literally theentrepreneurial generation, the
entrepreneurial thing, I willtell you that you can always
make money doing what you do.
Well, yes.
Anything you do well will makeyou money.
(41:36):
You, your style, is verydifferent from mine.
We were traditional be anengineer, be a doctor,
everything was called title,title.
Now it's you.
Yeah, what are you able to do?
Speaker 1 (41:50):
the personal brand exactly million percent the
personal brand like this is it?
I think what you've doneincredibly, to be honest, is
you've done your personal brand.
You have Lamia Kamel as thepersonal brand and you've done
other brands, and this is reallyhard to achieve.
To be honest, it's a lot ofwork.
Speaker 2 (42:07):
Yeah, it's a lot of work.
We work a lot, we work early,we do what we can and at the
we're kind to others.
We're kind to others.
It's a big part of the wisdomto create the ecosystem around
you whereby everybody benefits.
Everybody's a winner.
It doesn't matter who'sstronger than the other today,
it doesn't matter.
(42:27):
I see people around me who arestronger than me and people I'm
stronger than.
It doesn't matter, it will roll, it will be better, this will
be better, this will be better,but the whole ecosystem is based
on generosity, it's based onsupport and it's a positive
ecosystem.
So we as a group, whether inthis market or in Egypt, we help
(42:47):
each other a lot.
I used to listen to mycompetition.
I would tell them help me outon this and I'll please.
There's no need for that and wehelp each other because we know
, we know and it will come downto to giving it back.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
And it's a bigger vision.
But I think, speaking of theecosystem, what's next for the
next Narrative PR Summit?
I really would love to know.
My audience would love to know,and how can we attend?
How is it working this year?
Speaker 2 (43:21):
Please tell me.
We want to channel it into anongoing campaign.
So our summit last year was anevent, a two-day event, whereby
we draw recommendations and wesend those recommendations to
decision makers so that, in theend, we make a change in the
shaping of the narrative of thecountry.
(43:41):
Today, the topics are a littledifferent.
There is more focus on accessto finance, so bringing
entrepreneurs on board.
It's very important.
How people scale up, how peoplereach, how people get the right
funding and they're bringingstories about these things.
(44:02):
Tourism is still a big part ofour content and sports
Interesting.
So these are the three pillarsthat we're working on.
It's still in a meeting phase.
As a summit.
It's still a meeting.
However, on social media, we'rebringing in the best parts To
be followed so people can seewhat's happening.
(44:23):
It's in April.
It's in April and the nicething is we have a lot of
companies that help us In thepromotion of the content and
they're doing an award.
That's a new one yes, that's anew one, I love that, and it's a
beginner's award.
It's basically yeah, it's aboutEveryone wants to say the
(44:47):
beautiful image of Egypt in hisown way.
We're going to announce it.
Everybody's going to be part ofit.
The winner is going to be inthe event, so it's a
storytelling award.
So this is how we can bring inGen Z to be part of this.
Speaker 1 (45:02):
Motivation.
Speaker 2 (45:05):
They're going to finish it.
They're going to be the leadersafter 10 years.
Who do you want to?
Speaker 1 (45:08):
win.
You need to no, no, no, that'sincredible.
Okay so taking it to the nextlevel.
Will there be an award?
Will there be more ofeverything we saw last year?
Speaker 2 (45:17):
inshallah, there will be nice content, there will be
an award and there will beconsistent work, moving from
April onwards, on how Egypt canbe properly branded.
Speaker 1 (45:27):
Amazing.
Speaker 2 (45:28):
There will be visits, we will do international media
engagement.
There will be work all yearround, not just about the summit
.
The summit is going to be atool that comes within the
entire conversation, but it's atool.
So it's not that we're all herebecause of the summit.
The summit is part of it.
There are other things aroundit.
(45:49):
And everybody has something todo.
Speaker 1 (45:52):
I literally can't wait.
I think it's going to beamazing this year.
Thank you, nour.
Okay, so our last question foryou, lamia, on the podcast, is
we need your curation as Lamia.
What's curated by Lamia?
So, aiza Araf, what is Lamia'sday-to-day that elevates your
life, whether it's somethingregarding fashion, or a tip, or
(46:13):
a drink, or something, you knowwhat I mean like, absolutely,
what's your edit?
Speaker 2 (46:18):
I heard that friend, my best friend actually.
She sent me, uh, a quote, okay,by by one of the I don't know
even who said it, but I was veryinspired by what she said.
She said we don't have to bemen to be powerful, we don't
have to have Male energy to bepowerful.
And sometimes you find womenWith a lot of male energy, with
(46:42):
aggression, voice that's notvery strong Like men.
When she's psychologically andphysically she's a woman, so
that's a load on her.
It's easy for a man to getangry, it's a burden.
So what she was saying is thatI love it when I see women who
(47:05):
are proud of their women energyand they're powerful with their
women energy, with their femaleenergy.
Because you have that.
No, I'm looking at you, trustme, you're like who do you have
it?
Trust me when you're when, whenyou respect your beauty, when
you respect your which.
Back to the physical beauty,back to the beauty from within
(47:26):
this genuine beauty and, and Ibelieve, every woman is
beautiful in her own way.
So when you embrace that, whenyou embrace it and you take care
of it, you take care of whatyou wear because it's nice, yes,
because it's fun.
Fashion is not a superficialthing.
Fashion is a persona.
(47:46):
You want to reflect your personathrough fashion.
So, when you take care of yourfashion, when you take care of
how you look, when you take careof how you speak, when you
develop your being instead offocusing on others, when you
take care of how you look, whenyou take care of how you speak,
when you develop your beinginstead of focusing on others,
when you focus on your being asNoor or Islamia or whoever that
person is, and you develop thispersonality and you develop its
shape and subject and attitude,you get inspired.
(48:08):
And when you get inspired, whenyou feel good about yourself,
you do wonders.
Because if you can't loveyourself, you'll be stuck in
this pit, in this darkness andand it's such wasted energy,
whereas if you focused onyourself and solved your
personality and solved yourselfand dressed nicely and met nice
(48:29):
people and sat down nicely,you'll be inspired to work and
develop and you'll get a lot ofthings that are not good, but it
will pass.
You will have the energy andthe confidence that it will pass
it's not going to stick.
Speaker 1 (48:42):
I love that.
It's like the best edit, workon yourself and build yourself
and focus on yourself 100%amazing.
So we're going to do what's inyour bag with Lamia Kamel.
Okay, first of all, I love yourbag.
Beautiful YSL, gorgeous color,very on trend actually.
Okay, let's go.
Okay, all right, what's inthere?
Speaker 2 (49:02):
So I have my favorite perfume.
Oh my God, can I?
Speaker 1 (49:05):
see it Sure Okay guys .
Speaker 2 (49:13):
Lamia, kamel, tom Ford, rose Prick.
It's so good.
It's so good.
I'm a firm believer in scent.
Oh well, I'm a firm believer ina scent.
Speaker 1 (49:19):
Bd yes okay, okay okay, okay, okay so what's in
there that I?
Speaker 2 (49:31):
rarely use, no way, because I'm busy right now, but
I love it.
It's with me just in case.
Speaker 1 (49:36):
But I love it, okay.
So what's in there?
A mascara, okay, amazing.
Can you tell us what it is?
Speaker 2 (49:43):
It's like a Dior.
It's a Dior.
Okay, no, it's a Lancomeactually ifsala rom lipstick
love it.
Speaker 1 (49:52):
Can I see the?
I want to see the color.
Sure, we're very specific.
My audience is very into thisokay, so 304.
Why sell lipstick, guys?
I?
Speaker 2 (50:02):
will write another lipstick, amazing Kiko,
obviously guys, kiko lip gloss.
Speaker 1 (50:07):
We know it's really good, we know this.
Speaker 2 (50:10):
I have a makeup guru too.
Like that's not normal yes,because we are ladies and ladies
.
This makeup guru, like that'snot normal another YSL okay no,
no, people give you a chancewhen they like how you look wow
that's a real take, guys can.
(50:31):
I tell you something.
Yeah, but I think this is partof it.
Speaker 1 (50:33):
This is part of PR.
You know, you have to presentyourself.
Wow, that's a real take, guys.
Can I tell you something?
Yeah, but I think this is partof it.
This is part of PR.
Speaker 2 (50:39):
You have to present yourself, you have to look
comfortable.
I'm not saying you have to looksome sort of no, no no.
It's not about that, but youlook comfortable.
People like to look at you.
I love that.
I love that Okay.
Speaker 1 (50:57):
What else do we have?
Blush, blush, I love mac.
Speaker 2 (50:59):
I'm obsessed.
Can I tell you something?
I literally was just in macrestocking okay, so we know the
perfume.
Speaker 1 (51:04):
The perfume is amazing and it smells like you,
by the way yes okay, what elsedo you have?
Speaker 2 (51:09):
um, is there anything else?
Yeah, plenty.
This is my pouch that has allmy cards.
Speaker 1 (51:16):
Okay, my business cards.
You use a pouch, not a wallet,not a card holder.
Speaker 2 (51:20):
Imagine I have a card holder but I put the Very
interesting Amata.
I divide the things.
If I want to pay, I take this.
If I want to meet someone new,I take this that is so
interesting.
Speaker 1 (51:32):
I love that the PR pouch.
Speaker 2 (51:36):
I know, but that is so interesting, I love that the
pr pouch?
Speaker 1 (51:37):
I know the pr pouch and there's the payment pouch
okay.
So I have to ask you somethingregarding the pr pouch okay
airpods.
Airpods obviously essential.
So do you still believe inbusiness?
Some cash I want to knowbusiness cards no really, but
some people do.
But you know something, I wasjust kind of in the middle.
Let's do the QR code thing, butthere's still something about a
(51:58):
business card.
Speaker 2 (51:59):
That's you lose it, you lose it, you lose it and you
find it and you get angry andyou get angry.
However, there are still peoplewho keep it.
There are still people who,once you accept it, they give
you the business card.
Speaker 1 (52:10):
But Lamia, if you, I want to take your number, what
do I do?
Or your WhatsApp, your email,if you give me your business
card.
Speaker 2 (52:16):
I'll give you your business card, okay, but if you
don't give me, your businesscard.
Speaker 1 (52:23):
That's a professional .
If you give me your businesscard, I'm giving you your
business card.
Speaker 2 (52:26):
Actually, I have something very interesting that
my team just created for me.
I think my team is here.
Speaker 1 (52:30):
I want to see.
Okay.
So basically, if I give you abusiness card, I get one back.
If not, then we're doingdigital.
Speaker 2 (52:36):
We're doing digital and I have this whole.
Speaker 1 (52:39):
I want to show it to you.
Thank you, so I don't steal it.
Speaker 2 (52:41):
You're welcome.
I have all my stuff in pink,but it's a coincidence, so I
want a girly girl to do this.
Okay, thank oh, tap.
So basically you tap, supercool.
So basically you tap the cardand I get.
You get all the information,all the social media for that my
team.
Speaker 1 (52:59):
That's a really good tip you can tap.
It amazing oh I love thatthat's actually so efficient and
and sustainable and sustainable, but they were not the
sustainable.
Speaker 2 (53:10):
It's such a good point.
Imagine how many trees have youdestroyed.
I know, and so I think that'swhere you.
It's such a good point.
It's such a good point.
I have a problem with printinga lot of paper, of course.
Imagine how many trees have youdestroyed.
Speaker 1 (53:17):
I know, and so I think that's way way more
efficient.
Okay, anything else.
Cash, cash as a proof.
Speaker 2 (53:23):
No, I'm kidding, I have something I really like.
Actually, I think it's here.
Okay, I'm a big believer inmint.
Keeps you fresh, love it,you're able to talk and you
smell good that's a really goodtip and you know someone who
gave this tip.
Speaker 1 (53:36):
When they sit, when they go to fashion weeks yes,
for Paris fashion week all thegirls are like always have mint,
always have gum, always haveit's really important.
Speaker 2 (53:46):
I want to tell you that we underestimate the amount
of things amazing.
I mean you give the word the.
Speaker 1 (53:55):
Amazing the appearance and it's the details.
It's the details.
Speaker 2 (53:59):
Thank you, lamia, thank you Lord.
I'm so happy.
I'm so happy, did you?
Speaker 1 (54:05):
enjoy the episode.
I love it.
I feel like I got suchinteresting takes from you.
It's amazing.
Speaker 2 (54:18):
You know how to summarize In a nutshell Do you
do branding?
I don't you should Thank you.
Speaker 1 (54:32):
Lamia really is a mentor.
Action.
Welcome to the Curation, a showfor the culturally curious.
This is your host, noor Hassan.
Each week, I'll guide youthrough a curated edit of the
finest in art, fashion, design,culture, luxury, wellness, tech
and more.
This is your go-to space fordiscovering trailblazing ideas,
untold stories and meaningfulconversations with innovators
(00:24):
and creators who are shaping ourworld.
There's no gatekeeping here, sosit back, tune in and let's
discover only the best together.
Who is Lamia Kamen?
Speaker 2 (00:35):
for example and ChatGPT.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
It's both me and Elton.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Big part of what they do is to glorify and magnify
the kind of insights you feedthem with.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Because it's real, because it's on ground and you
are a mentor.
I'm very grateful to peoplelike you.
You love the sunset.
Yes, I love the dawn.
I love the beginnings ofanything.
I love the events.
I love the events.
I love the chat.
I love social media.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
We are culturally.
We like chatting, we likesocial media.
We are culturally, we arefamous.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
It's part of who we are.
I didn't have a work-lifebalance.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
I was mostly work.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
It's okay to be low-key.
It will come when it comes.
When we did campaigns, we madePR a full spectrum.
I was lucky because I wasworking with the most important
politician in the Arab region.
He was Sayed Amr Am region.
I was Mr Amr Moussa.
I worked after that in 2014 asthe president.
When I became assistantminister.
I became so passionate.
It has a lot of light.
Yes, you can go anywhere.
(01:30):
You can go anywhere you want.
People treat you with so muchrespect.
You need to get over this.
As soon as I get out of the bag, they tell me I'm going on a
mission difficult to figure out.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Who's the person?
Is that so you're the person?
Pr answer.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
If you gave me the business card, I'll give you the
business card.
Okay, but if you gave me thebusiness card, that's a
professional, okay.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Action.
Okay, I'm now Adam Alamia Kamel, pr guru in the MENA region and
in Egypt.
I was very excited about thisinterview because I feel like a
long time ago and I want to talkto you about not only PR and
communications, but in general,how important it is to build a
(02:18):
brand image and a brandreputation for yourself.
I feel like you are one of themost people that has really done
an incredible job and like notonly you built a brand such as
CC plus and narrative summit andand the brand, but I think
you're really a mentor and aguru in this field.
So thank you for being on thepodcast.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
I'm so proud.
It's my absolute pleasure to bewith you.
I have been, we've been close.
Yes, I've been watching yourcareer and I've been watching
how dedicated and disciplinedand consistent you have been and
women girls were able to createsomething for themselves and
(03:03):
build a brand and support others.
Build it with them.
I think you stand on top ofmany people.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Thank you, lamia, coming from you.
Thank you, but okay, so I wantto ask you the first question
who is Lamia Kamel today?
If you could explain to metoday.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
If you could explain to me today.
I always say to my team and tomy friends and to my colleagues
I want to always be the learner.
I don't want to be stuck in aplace where I think or assume
that I've made it or that I'mthere already, because it's very
(03:46):
tempting to assume so oh my God, look what I've done.
Blah, blah, blah.
And then you get stuck in thiscomfort zone and once you're in
the comfort zone, uh, you, you.
It's really difficult to to um,grow, and I'm a firm believer
that, no matter how big you are,no matter how well you've
achieved for yourself, there isalways room for more as long as
(04:06):
you're alive, as long as thereis a morning coming.
Every day.
I imagine that everyone of us,everyone who is able to get rid
of the boundaries of theposition or the job or the
so-called achievement, becauseso many people have done so much
more and that's what keeps meinspired is by looking at the
(04:27):
legends and what they have doneacross board, be it singers,
actors, scientists,professionals, all those people
who have done so much for theindustries and for the masses.
When I look at these people, itkeeps me grounded.
Yes, because I feel there's somuch that can be done, versus
when I sit down and say I swearI'm good at this, this is great,
(04:50):
very nice, very nice.
When I sit down and write myname, I find myself present and
I write nice things.
This is great.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Speaking of, I'm going to write your name.
To prepare for this episode, Ido a lot of research on every
guest.
And to prepare for this episode, Of course, I do a lot of
research on every guest.
Okay, and I'm still, of course,not only doing research on
guests, but I go to ChatGPT andask who is Lamia Kamel, for
example.
And ChatGPT not only knows you,it wrote me an essay.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
It wrote me an essay.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Everything she founded CC+, and then Narrative
Summit and then, and it took methrough the career and I felt,
wow, that's impressive, becausenot everyone gets this answer,
obviously not everyone at all,and it's an advanced technology,
but still so, this told me alot I was, I was, I was social
(05:41):
or Google or social media ingeneral.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
A big part of what they do is to glorify and
magnify the kind of insights youfeed them with.
Yes, what's really important isthe impact that you have
recognition much more thandigital.
Because, because it's real,because it's on ground, because
(06:05):
you're a human being who'sactually acknowledging something
and and seeing it, andsometimes social can take you to
this parallel world that canconfuse you, of course, but so
when you go on on, like eventsor summits or or conferences or
(06:28):
learning experiences, likeclassrooms, like when you go to
a university, you find all thosestudents listening to you and
wanting to learn more.
I think this is a very importantachievement, because a big part
of our role as people in it topass on, to help others yes, to
help others realize their dreams, and, and this is what we
should do yet, while you'redoing it for yourself, you need
to pass on to help others grow,to help others realize their
dreams, and this is what weshould do.
While you're doing it foryourself, you need to see what
(06:49):
other people are doing andmaterialize it for them and see
how you can be part of that partof their story.
I love that, and maybe this isalso a big part of what I want
to talk about.
Where do you find yourself now?
I think at this point, I owe somuch to the country and to so
much of the Arab world ingeneral.
(07:09):
I never saw Egypt as astandalone country.
I saw Egypt as a big part ofthis community and a big part of
this national Arab narrativethat needs to stand out and I
feel in faces like us, peoplewho are educated, people who,
like us, people who are educated, people who work hard, people
who are genuine.
They need to play a role inprovoking this and showing the
(07:35):
world what this country and whatthis region is capable of, and
a big part of it is storytelling, as you always mentioned.
A big part of it is teachingand working with others and
promoting and workingcommunication and shedding light
on all these amazinginitiatives and projects.
So, when I think about myself,as much as I'm a learner, yes,
(07:56):
but I really like to see mycountry and the entire region
reaching the potential that theydeserve, reaching where they
are, and I think this comes witha lot of collaboration and
engagement.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Bagadda, al-insi Otida is part of the mission, of
the curation not just thepodcast, but the curation that
we're doing with the guests onthe podcast, and you are a
mentor.
This is something else.
You don't downplay that.
This is it.
I loved what you said and,honestly, our audience is
(08:34):
regional.
Yes, due to my upbringing andbackground, the audience is from
saudi, from the uae, from eEgypt.
I feel that, because of this,there's so much to learn from
people like you.
Of course I want to know beforewe get into the nitty-gritty,
before we get into all theincredible things that you've
(08:57):
done, but first I want you totell me what is your morning
routine when you wake up, whenyou wake up.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
What are the details when you wake up?
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Islamia when I have the details.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Before I wake up, I feel very grateful.
I feel like, oh my God, I'm amorning person and that's
because I love the sunset.
Yes, I love the dawn.
I love the dawn, I love thebeginnings of anything, I love
the initiation of everything, Ilove everything small and I see
(09:28):
it grow.
So I wake up in the morningfeeling grateful, feeling
energized.
I love that.
I wake up at around 7am I think.
From 7am to 8am I stay in ameditative position.
I stay focused, I think I dothis and that, and then I move
(09:50):
out of bed and then I start myroutine.
My routine is basically after Ifinish this shot, I have to get
to work.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
I know it sounds a bit crazy, but I have to jump
into work.
There's no in-between like.
Okay, so you're taking an hourfor yourself, but there's
nothing in the middle of thecoffee.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
As it happens, I'm not the type who has to take the
coffee to get up.
I'm the type who gets up andthe coffee will be in the middle
In the water, exactly.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
That's nice.
So, that's real.
And then, while I'm taking mycoffee, I have to check what's
going on in the world.
I have to check the news, Ihave to check my email, I have
to go through my checklist andguess what?
I finish most of my work from 8to 11.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Wow, really.
So you're really a morningperson.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
I finish all my work, I send my emails.
I look at my work, I do my work, I finish all of that and then
I send my emails.
I look at my work, I do my work, I finish this part and then I
exercise.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Wow, I love that.
That's actually so interesting.
And see the first guest, orfrom the first guest.
You told me about this systemand I feel that many of the
books that she read you know,the books that tell you how to
Sharma the 5am club all of themtalk about wake up early and get
the big chunk out of the way.
Out of the way, but it's hard.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
It's hard.
I'll tell you why it's hardBecause we take a long time at
night.
We, as Arab and Egyptian people, love the night a lot, a lot.
I know, if you ask me.
We love going out, we loveevents, we love calling the
phone, we love chatting, we likesocial media.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
We are.
Culturally we are we are, ofcourse, it's part of who we are.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
But I mean and this is not wrong, as long as you
don't do it every day, right, ifyou can do it two or three days
a week and four days, you stickto waking up early, you'll be
fine.
There's no need to be likeforeigners six days a week.
You can't be like foreignersSix days a week.
You have to wake up at 10 andwake up at 6.
It's not necessary.
Maybe 3 or 4 days and 3 dayslike this.
(11:48):
You can split it In the earlydays.
Exercise yes, because I'm afirm believer In exercise.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
I love that it keeps you healthy.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
It keeps you alert, it keeps you happy, it keeps you
energized, it keeps you able todo more.
Unfortunately, we also have Aculture happy, it keeps you
energized, it keeps you able todo more.
Exercise, exercise, exercise,exercise, exercise, exercise,
exercise, exercise, exercise,exercise, exercise, exercise,
exercise, exercise, exercise,exercise, exercise, exercise,
exercise, exercise, exercise,exercise, exercise, exercise,
exercise, exercise, exercise,exercise, exercise, exercise,
exercise, exercise exercise,exercise, exercise, exercise
exercise exercise stretching.
(12:21):
Uh, I think I exercise betweenfour to five times a week.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
That's, that's good, yeah, four to five times.
I mean.
I think you know, so would yousay, that a lot of your success
in life is attributed to in amorning routine established?
Speaker 2 (12:36):
okay, it was mostly a lot of work and a lot of
dedication and discipline and Ididn't have a work-life balance.
I could mostly work.
I used to ask people, I used toask someone work-life balance.
It depends on the time, but atfirst.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
This is nice, this is nice.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
This is the reality, yeah, okay.
You have to choose something.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
Yeah, fair.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
And if you want to really excel, if you really want
to stand out, if you want toreally excel, if you really want
to stand out, then a big chunkof your youth has to be
dedicated to work.
And don't shy away from workingat night and working around the
clock, because it's a phase andI'm telling everyone here this
is not an eternal phase.
Right, work when you can work,because after that you won't be
(13:20):
able to, you'll be too tired,you'll have to work-life balance
.
The best to spend time, moretime with your kids or with your
grandkids.
Do you want to really work hardin your 50s, are we?
Speaker 1 (13:30):
no, no in your 20s and 30s when you're able to yeah
, do it.
But you know what?
The one thing that I reallyreally characterize with you as
lamia is that you have, you havethe passion, masha'allah, you
really do and it's somethingthat is very infectious.
Yeah, you feel it and I thinkthis is something that really
(13:56):
really helps.
But I want to go back a littlebit.
Mikey, can you tell me a bitabout your upbringing in the
sense of did you grow up inEgypt and were you always a very
, let's say, social person?
Did you always know how to talkto people?
Speaker 2 (14:08):
easily.
I'll tell you something veryinteresting.
Growing up, I've grown up inEgypt all my life, but I
traveled a lot with my family.
Growing up, I traveled a lotand I still value travel so much
.
My family, because they're both.
They worked in the ForeignAffairs Ministry of Foreign
Affairs.
My father was a diplomat, sothey have this culture and DNA
(14:33):
which is social and diplomaticand we love people.
We love to treat people withkindness, we love to treat
people with love and we love totravel.
You want to be exposed, youlearn from others, you're not
judgmental, you're tolerant toother people's mindsets.
That helps a lot.
It helps me a lot.
Growing up, I was shy, I wasmore low-key and then, with time
(14:59):
, when someone tells you you'rea shy person, push him to be
more social.
Yes, no, my family never pushedme.
She came alone All of a sudden.
You found it Exactly.
You embrace who, you areInteresting, you feel loved, you
feel accepted.
Yeah, so you grow.
You grow out of everything.
If someone is low-key, he willbe a scum.
(15:22):
This, this stress, yes, doesnot bring the best out of anyone
here blacks, and they embracethat person.
It's okay to be low-key, it'sokay to be quiet, it's okay, but
it will come when it comes.
But you encourage them to playsports, which what my family did
.
They would help me.
(15:42):
We played a little ballet, weplayed a little tennis, we
played a little swimming.
We did all these things.
It's a pleasure, it's apleasure.
So they help you To work onyourself, to be athletic.
They help you To be competitive, right.
I mean A good student in school.
So my family Was veryinterested in studying, very
interested in us.
Not because of books, okay,because when you're a student
(16:06):
you're disciplined.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
That's it.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
You're committed to doing something and delivering
it with quality.
Yeah, when I was younger, Ididn't understand what they
meant.
I thought what does it mean tobe a student?
What do grades mean?
Grades are not important.
What's important to me?
What's important to me is thatI'm a student and I love it.
No, the issue is مهمة بشاطرة فياللي أنا بحبه.
لا هي الموضوع مش مسألة grades.
Right هو الدسيبلين في أن الواحديسحى كل يوم بيعمل حاجة مظبوطة,
(16:29):
بيعملها consistently bedelivered Right وإنت student, ما
انت دورك إيه وإنت student, دوركأنك تذاكر, وتنجح, وتعمل رياضة,
وتب your best.
That's why I always noticedwith my family that they treated
us as siblings differently.
They saw everyone as smart andthey pushed them in this area.
(16:50):
For example, if someone issmart in grades, do your best in
grades.
If someone is smart in sports,push yourself in sports a little
.
So there wasn't a place foreveryone to have A students.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
I love that it depends, but that's not very
Egyptian, can I tell you.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
That's not very Egyptian.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Culturally.
We like to say to you that youwant to be a student and there's
a kind of interaction in thismatter Very much, but would you
say your parents encouraged youto be yourself.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Very much.
They encouraged me to be myselfand they wanted me to.
They put in us A place ofExcellence and consistency and
conscience that a person has aconscience in what he does.
So, no, we don't sleep unlesswe're done.
We wake up in the morning.
We're still awake.
(17:39):
I was a little bit lazy as achild.
I woke up early and, ironically, I woke up early after that.
Very ironic, very, but I don't.
I'll tell you something Veryinteresting I wake up early, but
I don't Go to work early.
Right, I mean, I'm not the typewho in the office At 8.30.
I've never been able to do it.
Yes, and I think A big part ofI mean I was a corporate a big
(18:02):
part of my life.
I was a corporate for three orfour years so I had to go early.
But it wasn't who I am.
I'm more of a creative person.
I like to think about thingsand then I go to meet people the
second half of the day and youexecute on whatever it is
Execute on what I thought of, onwhat you envisioned, exactly.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Very nice.
Okay, I want to get into thebeginning of PR.
Because PR?
I'd love to know what's yourdefinition of PR, because PR is
a very elusive field.
You feel like a lot of peopleunderstand what PR is and work
on it, but I feel like in Egyptin particular, cc+, the agency
(18:43):
that you founded, was a realpioneer in PR, because we didn't
understand much in the marketand, to be honest, there's still
a misunderstanding regardingAPR versus, for example,
marketing and branding and otherthings.
So you're the expert.
Can you tell us what yourdefinition is?
Speaker 2 (19:03):
PR always mess.
Mess with marketing, withbranding, with advertising.
You feel like that in the grayit is.
When I started PR, when Igraduated in 1999, I always
thought that PR is a veryinteresting field that's not yet
fully comprehended.
(19:24):
People don't understand itRight.
When I worked at Vodafone Iworked at Vodafone a little bit
in PR I noticed that there was agap between PR that we see in
books and PR that is done abroadand we are in two banks.
Okay, there was a clear gapbecause people didn't know PR is
about the message.
Yes, and the message is not anadvertising message.
(19:45):
It's more of an indirect,consistent, long-term message
that you build over time.
So it's not about these cups oftea are the best cups of tea in
the world or this detergentwill clean you up.
In three seconds You'll findthis detergent will clean all
your clothes.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
No, I loved what you were saying, so it's a long-term
message.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Exactly when you do PR today, you don't say anything
about yourself, okay.
You have a vision, a certaincontent, a certain positioning,
and then, over time, you work onit through others Interesting
and who are the others, thestakeholders?
So you use the media, you usesocial media.
(20:31):
You use social media, you useyour connections Right.
You use investors.
If you're an institution, youuse your investors.
You use your employees, yourteam, you use all the players
around you to focus on thismessage.
Okay, and this message, youunderstand it.
(20:53):
Later Today, I will talk aboutleadership or I will talk about
quality and creativity.
This is my message.
I work on it.
So I engage with the creatives,I engage with the designers, I
create new products.
I start working on this as PRPR products, by the way.
You create PR products thatsupport this and eventually,
(21:15):
your positioning willmaterialize, because this is the
kind of PR we, as CC Plus,worked on.
You had to work on it with bigmultinational companies who
believe in this.
This is how it started.
And then, in 2016, when we werecelebrating 10 years in the
market, we created a PR product,which is the Narrative Summit.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Which is a storytelling platform that aims
to build the PR of Egypt, notjust PR of companies, exactly so
this is my passion in PR how tomake PR meaningful, to enable
it to have purpose.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
But see, I'm going to tell you something.
I think there's no one who canexplain it like this.
It is so on point, especiallyin the long term, in the
branding and marketing,especially now with social media
.
It's trends, it's gone, it'sdone, it's next, tiktok
especially.
But PR really is the long term,it's the long game, it's the
it's done, it's next TikTokespecially.
But PR really is the long term,it's the long game, it's the
(22:14):
long game and utilizing all ofthat.
I love that.
I think it's so interesting.
I want to know, when youfounded CC+ and then celebrated
10 years, what was a mark inthat span of career for CC+?
Did you feel like, wow, wereally did a big thing in the
market?
Speaker 2 (22:28):
It was the political campaigns actually In 2011 to
2014,.
The company was in the marketfor six years, but we were in
the most important politicalelection campaigns and there was
no one else who was doing it.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
It's an example.
We did a campaign in 2012.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
There were presidential elections.
Now, presidential electionsdon't have no many players in
the presidential elections, butat the time there were players.
There was Amr Moussa, and so on.
It was in its phase in 2011 and2012.
Actually, we were part of this.
So when we did presidentialcampaigns, pr makes a full
(23:08):
spectrum Persona, personality,how he talks, how he responds.
So now the PR is a fullspectrum, yes, persona, how he
speaks, how he responds.
And I was lucky because I wasworking with the most important
politician in the Arab region,mr Amr Moussa.
Wow, he taught us how to dothis.
When you work with an importantperson like that, you learn.
So I was able to apply what Ilearned in this campaign to
(23:29):
other things.
So I worked after that in 2014in the campaign of President
Abdel Fattah el-Sisi.
I was with him in the workgroup.
We weren't the poor people inthe whole campaign, of course,
of course, but we were part ofthe group, of course, and we
were the poor people in themedia.
And then we entered theeconomic conference in 2015.
At that time, egypt wasundergoing a transformation.
(23:55):
Yes, it was a politicaltransformation.
It was a social transformationand it was a phase after the
revolution and after a lot ofthings.
So there was a phase ofbuilding.
We tried to buildinfrastructure.
So I was part of this and Ifelt wow this milestone is
important.
We did not just corporate PR, wealso did political PR and we
were part of a nation brand.
(24:15):
So let's materialize thisjourney and create something
official for the country.
That's called the narrativesummit, by the way, all the
people who do your nation brand.
By the way, bringing people onyour podcast and speaking about
their dreams and visions andputting this on camera is part
(24:37):
of what you're doing for thecountry.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
And I want to know more about Narrative Summit.
So Narrative Summit is aproduct.
It's very, very, very uniqueand it's also one of a kind in
what you do in pr right it isbasically a product of pr, as
you said, and generally, youwant to explain to me what was
the idea of narrative summitwhen you started it.
How did you manage to curatethe perfect mix of guests in
(25:11):
whom I represent to, or I meanbecause they represent Egypt?
Speaker 2 (25:17):
When we came in 2016, .
Cc Plus was 10 years old, right, and we were still feeling that
there was a gap between theperception of Egypt and the
capabilities of Egypt.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
So Egypt is not fully perceived and, at the same time
, there's so much potential.
There's youth potential,entrepreneurship, potential,
creativity out there, in everystep, in every corner, and we're
outside of that.
So the idea of the narrativewas to enable PR.
You wanted to serve yourindustry, definitely, and we are
professionals.
You want to serve your industryDefinitely, and we are
(25:52):
professionals.
You want to show them that youdo something that is of impact.
Yes, so the first thing was Toenable PR and the second thing
how can PR shape the country andimprove the image of the
country?
So we started in 2016, 2016,2017, 2018, until 2023.
It's a summit, a summit thatgathers all these people and
(26:13):
puts content, and puts recipes,and gathers people From the
first minister To the Bank ofthe State, to the heavyweight
businessmen Like Mohamed Mansour, sir Ben Elliot, to the
creatives Diab Omar Hilal All ofthese Were guests on our stage.
(26:34):
Well, ironically, I was never aguest on stage and I never
stood on stage To speak aboutthis.
I was always welcoming thespeakers Interesting.
I am the one Bringing thosepeople.
I am not here to glorify Myselfand to say how amazing I've
done.
No, I'm here to celebrate andto emphasize those speakers
(26:58):
Because you finally want toreach them.
You want to reach these people.
You put points, you putstructure to how things should
be in fashion, in design, insinging, in composing, in
business in sports, everythingyou had, every category, all
recommendations were written.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
When Narrative PR Summit last year it was huge.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
It was huge, yes, although in the room In one of
the big hotels, four seasons,for example.
Post-covid, the appetite haschanged, of course.
(27:40):
It's no longer.
You don't want to go to aconference From 7am until 8pm
and then leave.
You want to go to a destination.
And at that time I benefitedFrom the point that I am and
then leave.
You want to go to a destination.
When I became assistantminister, I was.
I became so passionate abouttourism for the narrative of
(28:02):
2023 was about this, was aboutdestination branding yes, within
the context of leadership aswell.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
Yes, which was soma bay you know which was Soma Bay,
you know.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Which was Soma Bay.
Soma Bay and Soma Bay got soexcited about it so they want it
every year now.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
I take it as fair.
No, but like I'll tell yousomething, I want to go back a
little bit to my experience.
And I want you to tell me aboutyour tenure as Assistant
Minister of the Ministry ofTourism and Antiquities.
Yes, this is a really, reallyimportant role and potentially
something that, you know, not alot of people will get to
(28:39):
experience, and I want to know,honestly, two things what was
the most important thing, forexample, that you learned or
learned from this experience,and what was the hardest thing?
Speaker 2 (28:49):
I want to tell you one thing, Noor.
The government is a difficultexperience, or not difficult,
actually.
It's an experience that peopledon't like to enter.
They complain about it.
They tell you that the money islow, routine red tape.
It's not something people willbe welcome to.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
There are a lot of red flags, as they say, but you
did it, which I think is a majortestament to not only your risk
appetite, but also that youknow how to navigate this.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
So we need to learn the first thing I did when I
went to the ministry.
I went to the ministry and Iknow how to get out of the
ministry and this is the mostimportant thing one must know,
(29:44):
because the ministry can be veryinteresting and it has a lot of
light.
Okay, okay, and I won't staylong.
So you go with this mindsetInteresting, you won't stay long
, you go, do something and teachthe people inside how to
complete it Like a missionMission and the people inside
the ministry.
I'm not the daughter of theministry, I'm here to help the
ministry.
But there are people who cameout of the ministry.
(30:12):
Yes, you have to come.
Yes, definitely, right, right,to at least deliver on something
, to continue.
So that was the mission for me.
(30:32):
I worked with a great leader, drKhadir Al-Anani, who is now the
director of UNESCO.
When I went, I knew who I wasgoing with and I chose this
person because I saw how much hebelieves in Egypt and how
committed he is to the countryand how creative he is.
I'm always after people whohave this nudge for creativity
(30:56):
and people who are out of thebox.
So when I worked with Hassan,he had a vision for the
Graduation Museum he had avision for and we did.
We did the mummies and thekibosh.
I was a big part of it.
I was a part of a big team.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
Definitely.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
For me, yes, yes, definitely, and to glorify this
position.
I didn't know so from thebeginning I knew it was a stage
to give back, to invest in aposition and to glorify this
(31:36):
position.
But people are very afraid ofthe ministry.
When I went, I encouraged a lotof people.
It's a nice thing when you come, you go.
When you come, you volunteerand I encourage all, by the way,
women and men of work to taketime off and work on the
government.
They'll see another side, yes,and it's a challenge Very, and
then the country needs to seenew issues Right and issues.
(31:58):
When I went to the ministryNoor, the first thing I did was
change the position on LinkedInand put my position and put an
email for my department,promotion at Ministry of Tourism
and Tourism Right.
I want to tell you this is avery important topic for us
coming from the private sector.
It was huge for the ministrythat you have an official email,
(32:21):
that there is a person calledLamia Kamel who held the
promotion of the ministry.
A flood it's huge, a flood ofemails came to us.
Yes, fascinating 100opportunities that are available
(32:47):
that are just that.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
You put your email fascinating because it's a point
of access and also credibility,so the two together is okay.
So who do I reach out to?
This is something that, by theway, a lot of people, especially
with countries like Egypt, findit very difficult to figure out
.
Who's the person exactly?
So you're the person, forexample.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
I don't know, this is a few boxes.
Yes that I took this and I wascommitted To the private sector
and to bring this Right Collabbetween the public and the
private.
So I worked a lot With theprivate sector.
Yes, with event managementCompanies.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
And I tried as much as possible To give them support
and, within the context Of whatwe did In the ministry, I think
we've done well and I went tothe private sector, I went to
CC+ and I worked on thenarrative summit edition of 2023
.
But it was a continuation.
If I would narrate my career orwhat I've done.
(33:44):
It's all synergized.
Yes, and this is why you feelthere's a brand being built,
because it was long-term,because it was consistent and
because it was really focused.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
And I would like to know, for example, what is the
most difficult thing you felt inworking in the government
sector.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
Of course there is a gap in speed.
When you want speed, thegovernment is slower.
World course there's a gap inspeed.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
We're used to speed the government is slower
Worldwide, by the way.
This is worldwide.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Yeah, for sure, calibers.
We have a big crisis in Egyptin terms of language.
Definitely, you go to many Arabcountries North Africa, you see
it in Morocco, in Tunisia, inLebanon.
All these countries have alanguage, even across the board,
and Egypt was like that, by theway, in the past.
Egypt, if you meet anyone,simple he speaks English.
(34:38):
In the past, we had a bigcrisis in education, so we lost
the language.
Language is a very importantthing.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
So we lost the idea of accessibility the idea of
access to bridge borders,exactly.
Okay, so I want to go back alittle bit with you to not just
Narrative Summit, but I want toknow you won the Biz Award in
2023, right, and it's a bigthing.
It's a big, big award, not justthis award.
(35:07):
Honestly, you've had manyawards and recognitions in PR
and media across the region andlocally.
What was the most memorablemoment in your career that you
felt was a moment that is bothmemorable and also felt like it
changed something in PR in Egypt?
I mean in PR in the country,thinking about PR in general,
(35:29):
Whether it was a company youworked with or a person who
adopted a strategy or anythinglike that.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
Look, noor, I'll tell you something.
I'll tell you something veryprofessional and I'll tell you
something very emotional.
Tell me Please, professionally,I've never competed with anyone
.
I mean, I've never looked atanyone and saw who was doing
(36:05):
what.
Yes, I was always focused onwhat I.
Yes, I was always looking atglobal standards, global
standards.
I was always looking at it andsaying how do my friends see me?
How do my friends see me?
We see each other and werespect each other because we're
nice.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
Definitely it's sweet .
Speaker 2 (36:23):
But professionally, you want to aim for the best,
and I always looked at the West.
I always looked at those whowere able to do things, who are
much more developed than us.
These are the people I waslooking for, their recognition,
and they saw me.
For me, this moment was lastyear, in 2023, october, when Sir
Ben Elliott, the founder ofQuantessentially and a great
(36:47):
businessman, and Sir MohamedMansour also most of his work is
abroad.
Now Come and tell him wow,lamia, you've done amazing work.
It's like I'm sitting in LA orin.
That was my recognition,because it comes from people who
are exposed and it comes fromthose who have seen it, and they
(37:09):
don't say that to make me happy.
They're coming next year, thenext year.
They want to come back.
They want us to be with you insomething like this.
We believe in you.
We believe in you.
You're trying to do a good job.
You're genuine about it.
So that was an important pointfor me.
When you push yourself toachieve global standards and to
speak globally with the globallanguage, that puts you in a
(37:29):
different place or puts yourcountry and your community in a
different place.
The emotional part.
The emotional part my kids.
I want to tell you somethingvery interesting.
Yes, when I go to my children'sschool and I talk to them, they
bring me sometimes inconferences and things like that
, motivational speeches.
That's beautiful In high schoolPeople get out of school.
Yeah, so I.
So I talk to them and I givethem a speech.
(37:51):
For example, a girl who is 14,or my son when he was in school.
Back then, mommy, they fell inlove with you.
They really liked what you saidwhen your kids come to you and
tell you we're proud of you.
It means so much becausegrowing up I was not there most
of the time because I was busy.
I tried to give them qualitytime but I wasn't a kitchen mom
(38:11):
I wasn't a sandwich mom theremost of the time because I was
busy.
I tried to give them qualitytime, yes, but I wasn't a
kitchen mom, I wasn't a sandwichmom.
I tried as much as possible tobe in the training with them.
I attended all the parents'meetings but I could have done
more right.
So then you have a feeling that, oh my God, I wish I did more.
So when they tell you, oh myGod, I'm so proud of you, look
at.
So when they tell you, oh myGod, we're so proud of you, look
at what you've done, you feelrecognition.
(38:31):
Yes, and I think this standsabove any recognition.
When your kids realize thatwhat you've done was with
purpose and you did not do itbecause it took time and I
wasn't busy, because I was goingto the parties and going out
with my friends, I was actuallytrying to do something for you
(38:52):
and for the industry and for youto be proud one day For Noma,
you recognize that it wassomething really big for me.
Speaker 1 (38:59):
That's amazing and, honestly, it takes me to my next
question, which is you've doneall of these incredible
businesses and positions,including CC+, narrative Summit,
assistant Minister of Tourismand Antiquities, and, of course,
you have other verticals likeFlair Magazine from CC+, but
(39:20):
Aiza Araf for your kids, forexample.
As a mother, what advice do yougive them when they come to you
and they say, for example, I'mnot sure exactly what I want to
do in the future?
Speaker 2 (39:29):
Or.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
Aiza Araf.
I don't know if Aiza the futureor when I grow up.
Typical sort of things that wego through.
What's your advice?
Speaker 2 (39:41):
it happened and my advice would always be it's a
journey, you won't have all theanswers right now and there's
absolutely no point stressingyourself out, but the point is
to do what you need to do, andit's a day at a time.
Yes, now what you need to do isto focus on your grades, to
(40:03):
focus on your sports, to focuson your health.
That's what you need to dodon't do anything stupid.
Don't do anything that you'llregret later the.
PR answer.
At one point you want to go tothis party and have a great time
, but you do what you need to doand it will come.
It will come because, as longas you're in peace with yourself
(40:24):
, you and you will know thatwhat makes you glow, what makes
you sparkle?
Yes, is it communication?
Is it, uh, photoshops, doinglike creative things, is it?
Is it, um, is it when you meetpeople that makes you shine?
Speaker 1 (40:53):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
This is what you should be looking for.
It doesn't come in your 20s, bythe way.
In your 20s, you're stilldelusional, you're still trying
things out, you're still tryingto achieve, but there's a
certain moment where you say, ohmy God, I love this.
And when this moment comes,this is what you need to do.
(41:14):
A question would be will itmake me rich?
Is it worth it?
Because this generation is allabout making money.
Yeah, literally theentrepreneurial generation, the
entrepreneurial thing, I willtell you that you can always
make money doing what you do.
Well, yes.
Anything you do well will makeyou money.
(41:36):
You, your style, is verydifferent from mine.
We were traditional be anengineer, be a doctor,
everything was called title,title.
Now it's you.
Yeah, what are you able to do?
Speaker 1 (41:50):
the personal brand exactly million percent the
personal brand like this is it?
I think what you've doneincredibly, to be honest, is
you've done your personal brand.
You have Lamia Kamel as thepersonal brand and you've done
other brands, and this is reallyhard to achieve.
To be honest, it's a lot ofwork.
Speaker 2 (42:07):
Yeah, it's a lot of work.
We work a lot, we work early,we do what we can and at the
we're kind to others.
We're kind to others.
It's a big part of the wisdomto create the ecosystem around
you whereby everybody benefits.
Everybody's a winner.
It doesn't matter who'sstronger than the other today,
it doesn't matter.
(42:27):
I see people around me who arestronger than me and people I'm
stronger than.
It doesn't matter, it will roll, it will be better, this will
be better, this will be better,but the whole ecosystem is based
on generosity, it's based onsupport and it's a positive
ecosystem.
So we as a group, whether inthis market or in Egypt, we help
(42:47):
each other a lot.
I used to listen to mycompetition.
I would tell them help me outon this and I'll please.
There's no need for that and wehelp each other because we know
, we know and it will come downto to giving it back.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
And it's a bigger vision.
But I think, speaking of theecosystem, what's next for the
next Narrative PR Summit?
I really would love to know.
My audience would love to know,and how can we attend?
How is it working this year?
Speaker 2 (43:21):
Please tell me.
We want to channel it into anongoing campaign.
So our summit last year was anevent, a two-day event, whereby
we draw recommendations and wesend those recommendations to
decision makers so that, in theend, we make a change in the
shaping of the narrative of thecountry.
(43:41):
Today, the topics are a littledifferent.
There is more focus on accessto finance, so bringing
entrepreneurs on board.
It's very important.
How people scale up, how peoplereach, how people get the right
funding and they're bringingstories about these things.
(44:02):
Tourism is still a big part ofour content and sports
Interesting.
So these are the three pillarsthat we're working on.
It's still in a meeting phase.
As a summit.
It's still a meeting.
However, on social media, we'rebringing in the best parts To
be followed so people can seewhat's happening.
(44:23):
It's in April.
It's in April and the nicething is we have a lot of
companies that help us In thepromotion of the content and
they're doing an award.
That's a new one yes, that's anew one, I love that, and it's a
beginner's award.
It's basically yeah, it's aboutEveryone wants to say the
(44:47):
beautiful image of Egypt in hisown way.
We're going to announce it.
Everybody's going to be part ofit.
The winner is going to be inthe event, so it's a
storytelling award.
So this is how we can bring inGen Z to be part of this.
Speaker 1 (45:02):
Motivation.
Speaker 2 (45:05):
They're going to finish it.
They're going to be the leadersafter 10 years.
Who do you want to?
Speaker 1 (45:08):
win.
You need to no, no, no, that'sincredible.
Okay so taking it to the nextlevel.
Will there be an award?
Will there be more ofeverything we saw last year?
Speaker 2 (45:17):
inshallah, there will be nice content, there will be
an award and there will beconsistent work, moving from
April onwards, on how Egypt canbe properly branded.
Speaker 1 (45:27):
Amazing.
Speaker 2 (45:28):
There will be visits, we will do international media
engagement.
There will be work all yearround, not just about the summit
.
The summit is going to be atool that comes within the
entire conversation, but it's atool.
So it's not that we're all herebecause of the summit.
The summit is part of it.
There are other things aroundit.
(45:49):
And everybody has something todo.
Speaker 1 (45:52):
I literally can't wait.
I think it's going to beamazing this year.
Thank you, nour.
Okay, so our last question foryou, lamia, on the podcast, is
we need your curation as Lamia.
What's curated by Lamia?
So, aiza Araf, what is Lamia'sday-to-day that elevates your
life, whether it's somethingregarding fashion, or a tip, or
(46:13):
a drink, or something, you knowwhat I mean like, absolutely,
what's your edit?
Speaker 2 (46:18):
I heard that friend, my best friend actually.
She sent me, uh, a quote, okay,by by one of the I don't know
even who said it, but I was veryinspired by what she said.
She said we don't have to bemen to be powerful, we don't
have to have Male energy to bepowerful.
And sometimes you find womenWith a lot of male energy, with
(46:42):
aggression, voice that's notvery strong Like men.
When she's psychologically andphysically she's a woman, so
that's a load on her.
It's easy for a man to getangry, it's a burden.
So what she was saying is thatI love it when I see women who
(47:05):
are proud of their women energyand they're powerful with their
women energy, with their femaleenergy.
Because you have that.
No, I'm looking at you, trustme, you're like who do you have
it?
Trust me when you're when, whenyou respect your beauty, when
you respect your which.
Back to the physical beauty,back to the beauty from within
(47:26):
this genuine beauty and, and Ibelieve, every woman is
beautiful in her own way.
So when you embrace that, whenyou embrace it and you take care
of it, you take care of whatyou wear because it's nice, yes,
because it's fun.
Fashion is not a superficialthing.
Fashion is a persona.
(47:46):
You want to reflect your personathrough fashion.
So, when you take care of yourfashion, when you take care of
how you look, when you take careof how you speak, when you
develop your being instead offocusing on others, when you
take care of how you look, whenyou take care of how you speak,
when you develop your beinginstead of focusing on others,
when you focus on your being asNoor or Islamia or whoever that
person is, and you develop thispersonality and you develop its
shape and subject and attitude,you get inspired.
(48:08):
And when you get inspired, whenyou feel good about yourself,
you do wonders.
Because if you can't loveyourself, you'll be stuck in
this pit, in this darkness andand it's such wasted energy,
whereas if you focused onyourself and solved your
personality and solved yourselfand dressed nicely and met nice
(48:29):
people and sat down nicely,you'll be inspired to work and
develop and you'll get a lot ofthings that are not good, but it
will pass.
You will have the energy andthe confidence that it will pass
it's not going to stick.
Speaker 1 (48:42):
I love that.
It's like the best edit, workon yourself and build yourself
and focus on yourself 100%amazing.
So we're going to do what's inyour bag with Lamia Kamel.
Okay, first of all, I love yourbag.
Beautiful YSL, gorgeous color,very on trend actually.
Okay, let's go.
Okay, all right, what's inthere?
Speaker 2 (49:02):
So I have my favorite perfume.
Oh my God, can I?
Speaker 1 (49:05):
see it Sure Okay guys .
Speaker 2 (49:13):
Lamia, kamel, tom Ford, rose Prick.
It's so good.
It's so good.
I'm a firm believer in scent.
Oh well, I'm a firm believer ina scent.
Speaker 1 (49:19):
Bd yes okay, okay okay, okay, okay so what's in
there that I?
Speaker 2 (49:31):
rarely use, no way, because I'm busy right now, but
I love it.
It's with me just in case.
Speaker 1 (49:36):
But I love it, okay.
So what's in there?
A mascara, okay, amazing.
Can you tell us what it is?
Speaker 2 (49:43):
It's like a Dior.
It's a Dior.
Okay, no, it's a Lancomeactually ifsala rom lipstick
love it.
Speaker 1 (49:52):
Can I see the?
I want to see the color.
Sure, we're very specific.
My audience is very into thisokay, so 304.
Why sell lipstick, guys?
I?
Speaker 2 (50:02):
will write another lipstick, amazing Kiko,
obviously guys, kiko lip gloss.
Speaker 1 (50:07):
We know it's really good, we know this.
Speaker 2 (50:10):
I have a makeup guru too.
Like that's not normal yes,because we are ladies and ladies
.
This makeup guru, like that'snot normal another YSL okay no,
no, people give you a chancewhen they like how you look wow
that's a real take, guys can.
(50:31):
I tell you something.
Yeah, but I think this is partof it.
Speaker 1 (50:33):
This is part of PR.
You know, you have to presentyourself.
Wow, that's a real take, guys.
Can I tell you something?
Yeah, but I think this is partof it.
This is part of PR.
Speaker 2 (50:39):
You have to present yourself, you have to look
comfortable.
I'm not saying you have to looksome sort of no, no no.
It's not about that, but youlook comfortable.
People like to look at you.
I love that.
I love that Okay.
Speaker 1 (50:57):
What else do we have?
Blush, blush, I love mac.
Speaker 2 (50:59):
I'm obsessed.
Can I tell you something?
I literally was just in macrestocking okay, so we know the
perfume.
Speaker 1 (51:04):
The perfume is amazing and it smells like you,
by the way yes okay, what elsedo you have?
Speaker 2 (51:09):
um, is there anything else?
Yeah, plenty.
This is my pouch that has allmy cards.
Speaker 1 (51:16):
Okay, my business cards.
You use a pouch, not a wallet,not a card holder.
Speaker 2 (51:20):
Imagine I have a card holder but I put the Very
interesting Amata.
I divide the things.
If I want to pay, I take this.
If I want to meet someone new,I take this that is so
interesting.
Speaker 1 (51:32):
I love that the PR pouch.
Speaker 2 (51:36):
I know, but that is so interesting, I love that the
pr pouch?
Speaker 1 (51:37):
I know the pr pouch and there's the payment pouch
okay.
So I have to ask you somethingregarding the pr pouch okay
airpods.
Airpods obviously essential.
So do you still believe inbusiness?
Some cash I want to knowbusiness cards no really, but
some people do.
But you know something, I wasjust kind of in the middle.
Let's do the QR code thing, butthere's still something about a
(51:58):
business card.
Speaker 2 (51:59):
That's you lose it, you lose it, you lose it and you
find it and you get angry andyou get angry.
However, there are still peoplewho keep it.
There are still people who,once you accept it, they give
you the business card.
Speaker 1 (52:10):
But Lamia, if you, I want to take your number, what
do I do?
Or your WhatsApp, your email,if you give me your business
card.
Speaker 2 (52:16):
I'll give you your business card, okay, but if you
don't give me, your businesscard.
Speaker 1 (52:23):
That's a professional .
If you give me your businesscard, I'm giving you your
business card.
Speaker 2 (52:26):
Actually, I have something very interesting that
my team just created for me.
I think my team is here.
Speaker 1 (52:30):
I want to see.
Okay.
So basically, if I give you abusiness card, I get one back.
If not, then we're doingdigital.
Speaker 2 (52:36):
We're doing digital and I have this whole.
Speaker 1 (52:39):
I want to show it to you.
Thank you, so I don't steal it.
Speaker 2 (52:41):
You're welcome.
I have all my stuff in pink,but it's a coincidence, so I
want a girly girl to do this.
Okay, thank oh, tap.
So basically you tap, supercool.
So basically you tap the cardand I get.
You get all the information,all the social media for that my
team.
Speaker 1 (52:59):
That's a really good tip you can tap.
It amazing oh I love thatthat's actually so efficient and
and sustainable and sustainable, but they were not the
sustainable.
Speaker 2 (53:10):
It's such a good point.
Imagine how many trees have youdestroyed.
I know, and so I think that'swhere you.
It's such a good point.
It's such a good point.
I have a problem with printinga lot of paper, of course.
Imagine how many trees have youdestroyed.
Speaker 1 (53:17):
I know, and so I think that's way way more
efficient.
Okay, anything else.
Cash, cash as a proof.
Speaker 2 (53:23):
No, I'm kidding, I have something I really like.
Actually, I think it's here.
Okay, I'm a big believer inmint.
Keeps you fresh, love it,you're able to talk and you
smell good that's a really goodtip and you know someone who
gave this tip.
Speaker 1 (53:36):
When they sit, when they go to fashion weeks yes,
for Paris fashion week all thegirls are like always have mint,
always have gum, always haveit's really important.
Speaker 2 (53:46):
I want to tell you that we underestimate the amount
of things amazing.
I mean you give the word the.
Speaker 1 (53:55):
Amazing the appearance and it's the details.
It's the details.
Speaker 2 (53:59):
Thank you, lamia, thank you Lord.
I'm so happy.
I'm so happy, did you?
Speaker 1 (54:05):
enjoy the episode.
I love it.
I feel like I got suchinteresting takes from you.
It's amazing.
Speaker 2 (54:18):
You know how to summarize In a nutshell Do you
do branding?
I don't you should Thank you.
Speaker 1 (54:32):
Lamia really is a mentor.
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