January 31, 2022 • 60 mins
Ever feel the urge to unplug and escape into the wilderness? Imagine sitting by a campfire, completely disconnected from the rush of modern life, and feeling a sense of peace emanating from your very core. This week, we're thrilled to have John Boe, the bushcraft expert from Wildway Bushcraft, joining us. John passionately shares his wisdom about embracing the wild and the manifold benefits it offers - physically, emotionally, and mentally.
John helps us distinguish between bushcraft and survival, highlighting the skills and knowledge needed to truly relish the natural world. We talk about the courage it takes to be still and alone with our thoughts, and why it's crucial to live life on our own terms rather than chasing societal expectations. Whether you're nestled in the heart of the city or living on the edge of a forest, John shares insightful tips on how you can get started with bushcraft, opening a gateway to a life more attuned with nature.
As we wrap up, we delve into the importance of interacting and protecting our environment. We share actionable steps to conserve natural beauty, from volunteering for local conservation initiatives to simple walks in nature. We also take a moment to express our deep gratitude to you, our amazing listeners. We hope you find this episode as enlightening as we did, and that it inspires you to step outside, appreciate the beauty of the wild, and discover the joy of bushcraft.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hello everyone and welcome back to the Curious
Ulsterman podcast.
The podcast is designed toequip you with the tools and
wisdom you need to thrive as anadult.
I am your host, johnny aka theCurious Ulsterman, and today I
am joined by my good friend JohnBow of Wildway Bushcraft.
In today's episode we discusshow bushcraft and getting into
the wilds in nature can benefityou physically, emotionally and
(00:31):
mentally, as well as thetransferable skills that you can
acquire and apply in theworkplace.
But without further delay,folks, here is today's episode
into the wild.
Hi, john, welcome back to theshow.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Johnny, nice to see you again, buddy.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Yeah, 100%.
This is your third appearanceon the show as well, and I know
the audience have loved your twoprevious episodes.
They've done very well in thedownloads and, as we were
discussing before, my co-hostloved that one quote from your.
I think it was your secondepisode don't let perfect be the
enemy of good.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Yeah, yeah.
No, it's cool to be back man.
It's really cool, it's reallygood.
I'm super glad that it's allgoing for you.
That's great.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Yeah, 100%, and, with any luck this year, work permit
and I 'll be on some of yourcourses again and back in the
woods.
But today's discussion is wellthe whole topic of getting out
into the woods, getting out intothe wild.
Obviously, given the currentstate of the world in that with
COVID, I'm hoping we're startingto see the light at the end of
(01:36):
the tunnel now, but for the pastcouple of years people have
been stuck inside watching techtalk, youtube, all them kinds of
things and sort of almostdreaming they could be outside
enjoying the wilds and the woodsand stuff, and what you said
just before.
We started recording aboutpeople living vicariously
(01:58):
through YouTube and tech talk.
You know, perhaps that caninspire people to do things, but
it's also not a good way to dothings.
So the first sort of question Iwant to ask you is what is
bushcraft?
Now, I know you've answeredthis question before, but we've
had a bit of a surgeon audienceso for some of them they may not
have heard your previousepisode.
So what is bushcraft and, inyour opinion, how can that help
(02:20):
us become more well roundedpeople in every aspect of our
life, both physically,emotionally, mentally?
Speaker 2 (02:32):
That's a mega question, Right, let's break it
down.
So what is bushcraft?
So basically, basically,bushcraft is a set of skills and
a knowledge set that allows youto thrive in an outdoor
(02:52):
environment.
Be it, you know, woodland ispredominantly where I work out
of, but woodlands, rivers,mountains, deserts, it's all you
know.
It's all encompassing aboutknowing, about learning about
nature, what natural resourcesare out there, what you can do
to make yourself comfortable andreally enjoy the outdoors.
(03:17):
It's completely different fromsurvival, where it's all gone
horribly wrong and you need tojust get out of.
Get out of Dodger or someoneneeds to rescue.
It's going to these places withthe mindset of being out there
for a long time.
Yeah, that would probably.
That's probably the easiest wayof describing what bushcraft is
(03:43):
, but it's such a huge subjectit's like you can go down a
massive rabbit hole on what isbushcraft and there's lots of
people with various differentopinions.
But essentially, that's whatmining is.
It's a set of skills andknowledge that allows you to
enjoy the natural world to amore greater depth.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
That's great.
So because I'm not that mucheducated in it, would that be
closer to say something likemaybe Ray Mears rather than Bear
Grills, or have I got thatpotentially?
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Yeah, well, that's, yeah, that's, yeah.
You could take those twocharacters like Ray Mears, your
sort of archetypal bushcraft TVcelebrity, as it were, that you
see in mixing with theseindigenous tribes, you see in
(04:42):
lighting fire by friction andeating well and making furniture
in the woods and candles andall sorts of stuff, and he's
very comfortable out there andhe can stay out there for a long
time and it's all about thejourney and living alongside
nature.
And then the Bear Grills.
If you take Bear Grills as theextreme survivalist type person
(05:08):
running down slate quarries anddrinking his own urine and
living in camel sleeper.
Yeah, I'm not a fan of BearGrills per se.
It's just, you know it's theother end of the spectrum, you
know it's the other end of the.
It's the other end of it'scomplete opposite, pro-opposite.
You know, like to Ray Mears,bear Grills thing.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Yeah.
So, as you said, bushcraft issuch a complex, nuanced topic,
but at the polar end of theskills you've got Ray Mears Love
and Life in the Woods using hisskills, as you say, to survive
there long term.
I say survive more like thrive,thrive long term.
Whereas Bear Grills is.
You've landed in the woods andyou need to survive.
(05:52):
That's the polar end of thatspectrum, but in between is a
wealth of knowledge that peoplecan benefit from, so to speak.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Yeah, for sure.
I think it's good as well totalk about getting into the
woods, because I feel that Isaid getting into the woods,
let's open it up, let's get itjust getting into nature,
because we've a global audience,like I've got people inside of
Korea, america and America's gotdiverse ecosystems as well,
obviously Europe, so we'll usethe generic term outdoors.
(06:25):
But obviously my experience andobviously your wealth of
experience is in the woods.
I think a lot of people go oh,I want to get into nature.
I see it on TikTok, I see it onYouTube and I'm sick of living
in this concrete jungle, I'msick of living in the same four
walls of my house and I want toget out there and enjoy it.
(06:46):
But weirdly, some people don'tknow how to start that.
I think they can see this as oh, I'm going to go to the woods,
what do I do?
They pull up to you like anational park or something, or
they get out of their car andthey go.
They walk through the woods andlike, okay, what am I supposed
to do now?
For me, personally, I havelucky enough that I know just to
(07:06):
be present in the moment, justto enjoy the sights, the signs,
that kind of thing.
But I feel like in this age,people feel like they need to be
productive 24 seven, and thatincludes being in the woods.
Oh, I've got to be doingsomething productive and I've
got to be getting something fromthis.
Or what's your advice forpeople who, let's just say, they
(07:27):
never have been in the woods?
And I can say that because Ihad a good friend of mine the
first time we went to Wales.
He had never seen a sheepproper time.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Never seen a sheep.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
So yeah, unreal, like proper concrete jungle.
He's never.
He had never seen a sheep.
So, for people who who live inthe cities and want to start
getting an appreciation ofnature, where would you suggest
they start?
And when they are in thewhatever ecosystem they are in,
what would you recommend they do, so to speak?
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Oh, that's the beauty of it, there is.
You know, if you're in the, ifyou've managed to get into the
woods already and you're like,oh, what do I do?
The whole point of being innature, in wild places, is that
generally there is, you don'tneed to do anything, you're
already there, so you know it's.
(08:25):
There's an old.
I don't know if I've told youabout it, but I've told you
about the art of doing nothing.
There's a Victorian explorerand he documented this
indigenous tribe in the jungleall right back in the sort of
late 1800s.
And he was late 1800s, early1900s, whenever Queen Victoria
(08:49):
was around.
History's not the strong word,but he was documenting this
tribe and he was just like man,the men of the tribe, they're
just, you know, they're reallylazy.
He started his documentarieslike they're really lazy, they
don't do anything.
They go out, they hunt, theycome back, they sit around the
(09:10):
fire and they don't do anything.
They're not productive, they'renot, they're not, they're just
wasting time.
They could be doing so muchmore.
And and he carried on studyingthem for months and it wasn't
till the to the end of his sortof time with them that he dawned
on him that actually thesepeople are perfect at the art of
(09:31):
doing nothing.
So they if you take that to amodern thing, I mean they
they're quite happy being bored.
If there's nothing to do, thenthey're quite happy living in
the moment and just not doingsomething.
You know, if nothing he's doing, then why bother running around
like lunatics?
It's like the, the, the analogyof the fisherman and the
(09:54):
businessman.
Have you heard?
Speaker 1 (09:55):
that one.
I have heard it, but I'd bewilling to hear it again if you
have.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Yeah, so as a businessman goes on holiday and
he stumbles across littlefisherman and then he's like
that's, that's conversation.
What's what's your catch beenlike today?
He's like I've caught four fish.
And now I'm going back to myfamily and he's like, but it's
only 10 o'clock in the morning.
He's like, yeah, but I'vecaught four fish.
He's like you're really lazy.
You should be.
(10:19):
You know, you should becatching 10 fish and then
selling six down the market, andthen you could buy a boat, and
then you buy a fleet of boatsand then you could do this, and
then by the time you're 60, youcould retire.
And then he's like yeah, andthen what would I do?
He's like well, then you couldspend the morning fishing and
then go home and spend it withyour family.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
So oh I love that story.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
The beauty of being in the woods or in the wild
places is that you get thatdisconnect from the hustle and
bustle of the nine to fiveconcrete jungle.
So people that, yeah, if you'rein the woods and there's, what
do I do now?
That's the point, it's to donothing, it's to just enjoy it
(11:01):
and enjoy it.
Go and look at stuff, yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
I love that.
Can I, can I just say that Ican say with 100% certainty that
the top in the top five momentsof my life, 100% has been at.
Two of them have been on yourcanoe expeditions, when we've
been just like the first onewould be.
I was when we were doing thethe Great Glen.
(11:27):
It was the Great Glen.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Yeah, the first one.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
I went on and it wasn't until day three.
Weirdly enough, I would almostdescribe it as like a
decompression from civilizationand like we were.
I think it was the day beforewe got into Loch Ness.
I remember just for some reasonI had pulled slightly ahead of
the main group and I was bymyself.
(11:49):
There was no one around me forlike at least you know, 200
meters or whatever, and it wasjust deafening silence and you
were just totally alone in theenvironment and it was this
weird I don't know how todescribe it it was.
It was this weird stress relief.
It was this weird likeresonance with nature, almost it
just it was such a calmingeffect that you know it's.
(12:14):
It's incredibly hard to describe, but I'm sure you experience it
all the time.
You know you hustle and bustleof life and as soon as you get
into the woods you're just inyour element.
There's just that, thatoverwhelming calmness,
appreciation for nature, livingin the moment.
It's.
It's such a surreal experienceand the first time I experienced
(12:34):
it I was like whoa, like, sothis is how your ancestors lived
.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Yeah, and that's, that's yeah.
Well, firstly, it's veryhumbling to hear that two of
your best life experiences sofar have been on a course with
me.
Yeah, but that's the point.
This is how our ancestors lived.
I mean, we've lived modernhumans, say.
The last 300 years have beenlike this.
(13:01):
Maybe not to this sort ofextent, but, you know, building
up to this.
This is a speck of time reallyon the on the human timeline,
where this is what we live isnot how we are evolved to live.
You know, we're not evolved tobe, to be looking at bone
screens and having informationbombarded left, right and center
(13:26):
and I'm not a Luddite, I mean,I use technology all the time,
but it's, it's not how we weredesigned to live.
So, going back to a woodlandand just sat around a campfire
the amount of times that peoplesay to me oh, there's something
like primeval about looking,staring, sitting around as a
group around the campfire andstaring into a campfire it does.
(13:48):
There is something primeval.
I can't put my.
I call it caveman TV.
It's just like pretty, prettyflames.
There is something about a smallgroup of people, um, sat around
and sharing an experience in innature.
That really brings peopletogether and and that's part of
(14:12):
the beauty of it for me is thatyou can go into the woods and
completely, or into the wild bythe rivers, you know, whatever
the mountain and really reallyjust relax and disconnect from
the modern hustle and bustle.
And I think that I think thatthat's something that I shout
(14:36):
about all the time with,certainly for mental health
issues and stuff like that, andthat's what I think is it's so
important to do.
It's so important, it's it'salmost well, it is for me, it's
a necessity, but it's in.
Yeah, man, I'd love to dragpeople out and they look
(14:57):
experienced this, but it'sreally something you have to
open yourself up to withoutsounding a bit a bit like
religious.
Welcome the woods into yourlife, man.
Yeah, it's like.
Yeah, I feel like I'm waffling abit, but I'm trying to just
find the right words, trying tofind the right words to describe
(15:19):
it it's if you've got into thewoods, you're already there, man
, and if you can't accesswoodland I mean, I was in London
a little while ago and thereare green spaces in London, or
even in your back garden thereare there are plants that you
can go into your back garden andlook at nature, even if it's
(15:40):
some, you know, even if it's abumblebee flying around, or you
know way ants work and move, andyou can, you can just
experience that tiny little bitand then, hopefully, that leads
on, and leads on, and leads on.
Not to mention that there'sfree food in your garden, yeah,
which is always good, yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
And the subject of food, two things that makes you
do John's foraging course thathe does, that's very good and
also my.
We were actually talking aboutyou yesterday after we finished
our episode, me and Nathan.
He said I'm talking to Johntomorrow.
He says, oh, yeah, he's a greatguy.
I said have you got anyquestions for me?
He says yeah, I'd love to knowabout some foraging.
And I was like, yeah,definitely he's the man for it.
(16:23):
So we'll definitely have todiscuss that at some point or
another.
Yeah, yeah.
But I think you hit the nail inthe head that you know you don't
have to go to a great nationalpark to experience the wild,
even going out to your backgarden, taking your shoes off
and just walking in some grass.
It's not perfect, but it's.
(16:45):
It's different, isn't it?
Yeah, and you know, if you knowwhat you're doing and you're,
you're, you know, with a goodcommon sense and and and
extremely good knowledge.
Yes, there are edibles in yourgarden, you in the woods, and I
mean, I've remembered.
The one of my strangest lifeexperiences was the first time
(17:05):
you showed our little group inthe middle of the Scottish
Islands how to like find pig nut.
Oh, yeah, and then it's and thenit shoots off randomly like a
90 degree angle and I remember Iremember being, exactly as you
said, sat around a campfire inthe middle of the Scottish
Highlands where a bunch ofpeople I barely knew, but after
two days I felt like I'd knownthem forever and we're sat
(17:26):
around eating pig nut fresh fromthe ground around.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
It's just, it's a real experience.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
So yeah, it is, one is and it and that's.
You know you make a really goodpoint in that you don't have to
go to these.
You know wilderness, massivewilderness areas, they're
amazing.
You know what I mean, If youcan do it.
Yeah, and it's something I getfrustrated with, you know,
(17:53):
working out of UK woodlands isthat we don't have like these
vast amounts of areas where youcan disappear for days and not
see any sort of sign of humaninteraction with nature.
And I'm constantly like bangingon to my wife saying, oh, I
(18:15):
want to get a Canada and likeliterally just get lost.
It's not, it shouldn't be abarrier.
There are still really, reallycool pockets of the UK to go and
visit and, like you say, you'vegot a global audience now, so
there'll be really cool pocketsof other countries.
(18:36):
You know that even in built upcities and stuff like that,
there'll be these little pockets.
And you, just the best advice Iwould give would be not to get
overwhelmed.
It would be not to go oninternet forums that talk about
Bushcraft, Because there's somany people who go down so many
(18:57):
nuances and people have theirown opinions.
I would literally pick up acouple of books and go do it old
school like, without soundinglike a I'm 40 in May, without
sounding like a middle-aged man,or read, read, I would.
You know.
I would pick up a couple ofbooks about the subject and find
(19:19):
your own way, find your ownpath and find what interests you
about the outdoors and that'show I would say, to get into it.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
On the subject of books, you and your friend did
write a book actually not, Ithink about it.
Was it Bushcraft of the Familyor something?
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Yeah, yeah it was Bushcraft of the Family Guide
it's going to.
It's got out print now.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
I should open it on Kindle at least.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Oh yeah, it's on Kindle.
Oh good, good, good, it's onKindle.
And that, you know, that's like.
That's just a sign of themodern times is that there's
some.
We wrote this book.
They sold as many copies asthey.
They deemed that they needed tosell to make their money back,
and then they were like right,next thing.
And so it's.
But you know, that's just howpublishers make money, man.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
It's just like if people were still buying it,
it'd still be on sales, wouldn'tit and personally, I think I
must have got one of the lastcopies, because I do have a
physical copy of it.
Yeah, nice.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
That's great.
I think you can buy that aphysical copy for 150 quid on
Amazon or something like that.
Between you and me, I probablywouldn't buy it.
No, I have my own book in thescript.
Yeah, man, I really enjoyreading the old, old books, like
there's some really really oldbooks written at the turn of the
century, 19th century, yeah,and I've, like you know, they
(20:44):
were called pioneers exploringAmerica and all that sort of
stuff.
And Canada kept heart is one Ireally enjoy reading the
generate.
Younger generations might readit and be absolutely disgusted
at the language that's used, butit's, it was written of a sign
(21:07):
of its times.
So just take that and take thatinto account.
But yeah, no, that would be mygo.
Yeah, really dive into thehistory of it.
But I feel like I've gone offtangent, which is not unusual
for me.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
No, not at all, I think, if you can give it,
because there's how to put apolitely strange people in every
sector of life and every hobbyand every you know subject.
I think bushcraft is noexception.
You can end up getting yourpurists and you can get your
people who.
I did a nuance.
But for the average Joe let'ssay university student, and
(21:47):
you're stuck, you've justsmashed in, you know 80 hours of
a week between work, revision,and you're getting burned out.
And you're scrolling throughtech talk and you just happen to
see all these people live intheir best lives, going through
the woods, beach, all this kindof thing.
Well, I want some of that, andyou've explained very well how
(22:10):
to get into it, how to like evenyou don't need to.
You don't need to go to a hugenational park.
Even your university campus isbound to have some sort of
greenery that you can enjoy andthings like that.
But could you maybe go oversome of the benefits you know
physically, mentally andemotionally that people can
(22:32):
expect or likely expect whenthey even get, when they start
to get into nature, because Ifeel like that's really
important to discuss.
As you say before, it's, it'sprimal to get as high our
ancestors lived and we haven't,thankfully, evolved out of that
yet.
So people do, naturally, aredrawn to nature.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Yeah, yeah, first and foremost, is that you use the.
You know, you've, you'vesmashed out all this time.
You were taking this universityperson and you've watched
Instagram or TikTok and youdecided that you see all these
people live in their best life.
I think it's first andfundamentally that for people to
(23:18):
know that that 30 seconds is,or whatever however long the
video is is is massivelyenhanced.
He's not real.
Yeah, that's the first thing.
That's the first thing to youknow, I've got an 11 year old
son now and that's massivelyopen my eyes and that is it.
(23:39):
That's not real life and that'snot what they are doing.
I was driving through Scotland,the Glencove area absolutely
gorgeous and there's three likecrags called the three sisters.
Right, they're absolutelybeautiful, they're all covered
in greenery, is waterfallsfalling down them and there's a
viewing spot and in that viewingspot was a queue All right, a
(24:04):
massive queue, maybe like 30, 40people and lots of girls, very,
very pretty girls in leggingsdoing like star jumps and
someone taking an Instagramphoto and then they were getting
back in their cars and movingon.
They're not.
You really need to take whatyou see on social media with a
pinch of salt, because there'swhat people portray and there's
(24:29):
what people do, all right, and Ithink that's really, really
important these days in that youdon't judge yourself by
people's 32nd Facebook clipswith filters and Instagram
models, and you know.
I just think that's importantto say I might sound like a
(24:49):
really, really old, grumpy man.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
I just you know, I totally in total agreement with
you, John, total agreement.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
I mean, and it's I mean even I suffer with it
sometimes to look at some, likeyou know, children, their sex
positions, and if you're like 30year old, out there at the top
of that mountain in the middleof nowhere, that's amazing.
But it's, you know, it's just abrief snap and it might not
even be real.
It might be photoshop, it mightnot be real.
So that's that's what I wouldsay.
(25:18):
Sorry, man.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
No, no, no, 100% agree.
And something that a lot ofpeople will not show is they'll
not show the delayed flights,you know getting stopped at
customs.
They'll not show the carbreaking down on the way to the
to getting the foot was shit.
They'll not show, you know, thecouple, the happy couple,
smiling in the photograph,arguing for all day before
because they're tired, and youknow it's it's.
(25:40):
It's the only showing the goodside and not the complex nuances
of, say, full time travel oreven just even just a day out in
the woods.
So you know you hit the nail inthe head, john, 100%.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Yeah.
So what?
What so?
Yeah.
So going back to yourhypothetical student or young
person, I mean, I'm notinterested in that kind of that.
What I would say is that if youcan get yourself to somewhere,
that is, let's take a woodlandenvironment and you can maybe
(26:12):
fill up like a flask or thermalmug of tea or something and just
a hot drink and someone to siton be it a jacket or a chair or
something and just go and situnderneath a tree for half an
hour and be completely still.
It might feel like the mostalien thing possible for you to
(26:33):
do after busting a gut for eighthours a week, but you will be
blown away by what you see.
To start with, you'll be blownaway by how close the small bits
of nature come to you and thefirst thing you'll probably see
(26:59):
is small robins and birds andstuff like that.
That would be my life.
That's the first step.
Go and do that.
You need to learn how to slowdown would be the most important
thing.
You need to learn how to slowdown and ground yourself and not
be running around at a millionmiles an hour, because that's
(27:23):
not what we were designed to dorun around at a million miles an
hour.
I forgot on the rest of thequestion.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
No, that's all right.
It actually lines up perfectlyfor the question, because
learning to slow down and to bein that moment, I think, is the
foundations of wellness.
But the question was what arethe physical, emotional and
mental benefits?
I don't think you can explorethem and get the full potential
(27:56):
from them until you get out ofthe quote-unquote rat race of
whatever it is you're doing like, whether that be studying for
university or your job orwhatever.
Learning to slow down would beprobably the foundational point,
wouldn't it?
Then you can get the physical,mental and emotional benefits,
which?
What do you think they are?
Speaker 2 (28:21):
First of all, the physical benefits of being in
wild places and doing exercise.
The physical benefits,obviously chemical releases of
serotonin and all those goodstuff that gives us that feeling
of well-being, getting theblood pumping and the heart
going of doing any physicalexercises is great, but out in
(28:44):
nature you get thatawe-inspiring view of the views
and the fresh air.
It gives your head a break, itgives you time to physically
relax and gives you somethinking space.
One thing I found that wasreally scary for me was that
(29:07):
actually it takes a lot ofcourage to be on your own and
quiet even for an hour, becauseyou're left with nowhere.
It's just you and your thoughts.
You're left with nowhere tohide.
(29:28):
That can be quite a bigchallenge for people and there's
just you and your thoughts.
You literally have nowhere tohide.
That, I say, would be one ofthe benefits, hugely mentally,
is that it gives you time toaddress some of your hang-ups,
(29:51):
to think about your goals andhow, whether you're acting for
other people, are you actuallyon the right path for yourself?
It gives you time to be honestwith yourself and that can
sometimes be quite a scary thing, I think, for people to realise
(30:14):
that actually they've joinedthis university course because
their dad always wanted them tobe a doctor, or they feel that
society wants them to do this,and actually they would rather
be doing something that was moreself-fulfilling as opposed to
(30:37):
earning X amount of money a yearbecause, yeah, you need a
certain amount of money to live.
I'm not disputing that, butsometimes it does more harm than
good.
Chase, working, living forsomebody else does that make?
Speaker 1 (30:55):
sense, 100%.
I'm feeling really convictedwith that at the minute because
for me, if money wasn't anobject, I would be going on
personally, my own ambitions.
I'd be going on expeditions.
I don't know what I'm doing,but I would be trying to learn
Bushcraft on its fullest.
I'd be trying to.
It's a big world out there andI'd love to see it all
(31:19):
physically impossible to do.
But you're right, you do haveto make a certain amount of
money to live and with,hopefully, my ambitions, I would
make a modest amount of moneythat I can go and do the things
I want to do and live life on myterms.
But 100% agree with everythingyou said and that effect that
(31:40):
you talked about, about being inthe woods or being in the wild
and you're alone with yourthoughts.
That's probably one of thebiggest things that affected me
as well in my maturity as aperson.
So I think when I first went onone of your canoe expeditions,
I think I was about 24, 25 andthat's a weird time for an adult
(32:02):
like quote unquote your quarterlife crisis as it's now being.
Is that right?
Is that a thing?
That's a new thing now.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Pardon, how sad is that?
Yeah, it is how sad is thatthat's the society where we've
got to 25 and they're like right, if you live to 100, you're a
quarter way through your life.
You need to have a crisis now.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
Yeah, it's like, oh, have I got the enough safe dot
for the house yet?
Am I reaching my goals?
Am I being a bum?
Should I be in a seriousrelationship by now?
All these things, it's allthese like societal expectations
.
And then obviously no soonerare you over your quarter life
crisis and you're into yourmidlife crisis.
(32:41):
Well, why do we have to have acrisis at all?
Why not just live life on ourterms as best we can?
But that all came to a headwhen I was in that canoe by
myself.
I remember my first ever timeon a canoe, expad, and you're
(33:01):
like right, johnny, so one ofthe guys doesn't turn them up,
do you mind being in a canoe byyourself?
And I was like, okay, and,having never set foot in a canoe
, I'm paddling in that littlestream of Neptune Stereochis in
four William, and I'm going incircles.
I could just see you, hand onface.
Oh no it's going to be a longfive days, but that was a
(33:26):
blessing in disguise because,like as we mentioned previously,
when I was by myself in thatglen, at least for like a good
20 minutes, talking to no one,alone in the wild, and I
suddenly realized, wow, like youknow, you do, you cannot help
but have some form of reflection, some form of you know.
How the hell did I get to thispoint in my life?
(33:48):
What am I doing?
Who am I?
What are my values?
And you, suddenly, suddenly youget a lot of clarity with what
really matters in life, and it'snot the paycheck, it's not your
social status, it's not the caryou drive, it's am I happy?
Am I?
Am I living life to my values?
(34:08):
Am I living?
Speaker 2 (34:09):
life yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
Yeah, Am I living life when I'm here to?
I'm going to not, you know,regret it and that kind of thing
.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
So you're on this side to put your nose right.
You're on this planet, man, forsuch a brief snort of time,
like say, let's say, 80 years,100 years, if you're lucky.
It's like if, if you're nothappy, then doing what you're
(34:37):
doing, then for God's sake,change it, man.
Yeah, because you've, there'sso much more to life than you if
you're not happy.
What a sad, what a sad, sadstate of affairs that you're
living your life and you're notenjoying it.
Yeah, yeah.
We all have ups and downs and wehave bereavements and things
don't go our way and you knowyou can't be euphoric and happy
(34:59):
all the time.
No one's, no one's expectingyou to do that.
But if you're having more baddays and good, then I would just
I would urge you as a, assomeone that's got is in the
prime of their, their sort oftime 25, you know, young people,
18 to sort of 25 or whatever.
(35:20):
You just change my.
Do something, really reallyground yourself, really really
think about what makes you happyand and aim for that or work
towards that.
I mean, I'm not, I'm not sayingyou should give everything up
and, you know, make a changeovernight if you're not in the
(35:41):
situation to do it.
Be pragmatic and practicalabout it, of course.
But yeah, I would just urgepeople someone that is turning
40 in a few months time forGod's sake, don't, don't live
your life unhappy.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
Bloody hell.
Yeah, that's a hell of a bit ofadvice right there.
I may also say you look likeyou're in your late 20s rather
than turning 40, so fair for you.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
John, it's just filters man.
It's the guy who does it.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
Thank you very much.
I'll maybe acquire some of them, filters for when I need them,
maybe look good in the instantlight.
My little shoddy web camera onmy computer Not 100%.
I think that something I'vebeen liking to do on these
(36:32):
episodes is to give actionablesteps to the audience.
I think by accident we may haveeven got our first actionable
step for the audience.
If you would agree that, maybesit down like if you've got a
busy schedule I know it'll behard, but find maybe 30 minutes
to even sit in the woods, sit insome sort of nature, and even
(36:57):
write down or journal or reflectand think what actually makes
you happy.
Why are you doing the thingyou're doing?
Why are you on this course ofaction?
Even maybe, if you asked me tolist off maybe the top four or
five experiences of my life, Icould probably rhyme it off in
about 30 seconds, because I havedone that, I have sat down and
(37:18):
I have dialed in what I like,what makes me happy, what I'd
love to do if money wasn't anobject, if you don't know.
A good question I like to askpeople that stumps them, which
is quite sad, is if money was noobject, what would you do they
sort of look a bit what?
Oh?
I've never actually thoughtabout that.
(37:39):
They never actually thought,yeah, what do I actually like to
do?
They've gotten maybe betweenthe ages of 18 and 25, nearly 30
, whatever, actually, no, well,increase the age range, let's
say up to 50, 60.
They've never actually sat downand thought, yeah, what do I
actually like to do?
If money was no object, whatwould I do?
(37:59):
I think you're in the extremelyfortunate position that you get
to do what you love every day,and not only that, you get to
teach people it as well andspread that knowledge.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
It's funny, yeah, yeah, because if money was no
object, I would still be doingthis.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
Yeah, but there you go.
You're probably a single digitpercentage of people who are
doing that and kudos to you.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
Yeah, and I think it's important that people know
that, from my point of view, alot of this has been luck.
I've managed to do some time inthe mob and I've got a military
and I got injured and I got anincome that sustains me, so me
(38:46):
and my family.
So I think a lot of it is.
I only managed to get hold ofsome woodland because I had
cancer and I had insurance, so alot of it has been luck.
Please don't you know I'm not,but yeah, I am fortunate that
even if I was mintedmulti-millionaire, I won a lot
(39:07):
of Euro millions on Friday, butI'd still be doing this.
So so go on, yeah.
So I think, yeah, I amfortunate, I am lucky, but it's
not unobtainable for people.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
Yeah, I like that as well.
I think it's really importantto bring that into the
conversation, that, while youpersonally have made a lot of
good choices that have resultedin the rewards that you now
enjoy, yes, like every situation, there's a certain amount of
luck, that uncertainty isinvolved.
You know it's so interesting.
We were having thisconversation and work the other
(39:44):
day and we were describing how,you know, if we did win the
lottery, what would we do?
And my honest answer is, at mycurrent age and circumstances,
it would be.
I would love to just put itaway and some sort of investment
thing, live off interest.
I wouldn't.
I don't want a flashy car, Idon't want a big house, I don't
want any of that.
I just want to go off and doweird and obscure jobs.
(40:07):
So, like something I've alwayswanted, something I've always
wanted to do and I don't knowwhy is at least experience.
Once you know that, do you knowthat it was called deadliest
catch?
Do a season?
Oh, yeah, yeah, and the bearingstraight, and the bearing
straight yeah, just be afisherman in the bearing
straight for a season and thenafter that, I don't know, go do
(40:27):
something in hospitality andafter that maybe go and do I
don't know, just weird andwonderful jobs everywhere.
Because so you know, I've donethe North Coast 500 twice now
and I don't know I'm not doingthat in April.
Oh, are you?
Yeah, I'll give you some tips,because there was a couple of
hairy moments that I shouldprobably be wary of.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
But the.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
Thing that, let's be honest, scotland is one of the
most beautiful countries in theworld, if not the most beautiful
but at the same time, for allthe views, all this, it was the
people I met along the way thatreally made it into the really
made the experience and hearingtheir stories and you know,
(41:08):
having my own, having my own,having my own perspectives and
beliefs challenged, I'm in avery fortunate position.
Whatever way I've developed, Ikind of like being proved wrong.
Like if I'm holding a view andsomebody challenges, they go oh
crap, what if I'm wrong?
And you're not going to getthat, being stuck in your room
(41:28):
or in your university campusscrolling through tech talk and
Facebook and echo chambers ofpeople who all agree with you.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
So yeah, you know absolutely.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
Yeah.
So I think that's that'sextremely important.
So I would say yeah, firstactionable step would be to sit
down in nature or youruniversity campus greenery
ground, whatever in your backgarden and really hammer out
what are your values, what makesyou happy, what if money was no
object?
What would you do?
And I think that's a goodstarting point, and with sitting
(42:01):
in nature you'll get thatclarity as well.
You can physically and mentallydecompress from the hustle of
city life, from life in general,and just get your own personal
headspace to work with.
Big thing.
I'm a fan of journaling, I love,love journaling.
Just, I tend to like word vomitonto a page doesn't have to
make sense, but it's just niceto get thoughts down to, and it
(42:24):
helps as well, I think, withboth your, your mental and
emotional health too.
I'd give it back to you.
Actually, what would you say isan actionable step for?
So they've, so they've gotteninto the woods, they've hammered
out you know what, what makesthem happy and all that kind of
thing.
But there's no, it's actuallyI've got the, I've got the bug
(42:44):
now for getting into the wildand to nature, all that kind of
thing.
What would you then suggest isan actionable step for getting
into the wild, for really livingit to its fullest, both
physically well, all threephysically, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:03):
And so if you caught the bug, then some actual skill,
you know, get some actualphysical skills so you can start
, you know, you can startexploring it at all times of the
year.
So, my, you know, the key one,I suppose, would be learning how
to make a, make a fire, and itcould be any method, man, it
(43:24):
doesn't have to be fire byfriction, it could be cotton,
wool and Vaseline and acigarette lighter, it doesn't
matter.
At the end of the day, you justgot to get a fire going.
So who cares how you do it?
I'm especially if it's just youknow, just you.
I mean getting some core skills, being getting comfortable,
getting comfortable and beingcomfortable in the outdoors.
(43:44):
So I would say, highlightingand then, and some tool, use
some skills, some tools toenable you to make things that
are will enhance your life outthere, you know, and also allows
you to a knife and learn how touse a knife appropriately,
(44:10):
learn how to do a bit of carving.
And then, all of a sudden,you've gone from someone who
just like, likes the outdoorsand likes to peace and quiet, to
being able to keep yourselfwarm without carrying loads of
kit and also being able tofashion, useful items, be it
something to hang your kettle onor pot hanger or and these are
(44:34):
all basic, really fundamentalskills or something to something
to eat with or you know what orwhatever it is that you've
decided you're going to makesome 10 pegs or something like
this is all real basic stuff.
And then all of a sudden you'vegone from like I'm now carrying
(44:54):
less equipment so I can rely onmy own skills, and with that
comes a confidence, and withthat confidence comes self
esteem, and with more selfesteem comes more confidence,
and it's like this big spiral ofoh hold on, I can really look
(45:20):
after myself out in a wilderness, in the woods.
And those skills aretransferable to modern society
as well.
You know, not obviously goingaround setting fires in
university campuses, but theyare confidence and self-esteem.
They are transferable skills,self-reliance you can rely on
(45:44):
yourself to be in the middle ofnowhere and come out quite happy
.
There's a line in one of theKEPPA books I was talking about
earlier on.
It says a man who knows thewilderness is never truly lost
when he lays his bedroll, hishome type thing.
(46:05):
And with that I can go into thewoods and be completely happy,
or into the wild and becompletely happy and not panic
when others around you arerunning around like lunatics.
With that come transferableskills to within a business
environment.
I don't know who said it, butit was like if you can hold your
head when the rest of theworld's running around, oh,
(46:28):
you're a man, my son yeah.
Man, woman, he, she, they.
I'm a debt form, that sort ofstuff these days.
But yeah, that's where I'dstart, like learn the basics,
get comfortable and then decidewhich way you want to take it.
Speaker 1 (46:51):
Yeah, I love what you just said there as well about
how having that an epicconfidence, knowing you can
stand on your own two feet,knowing that you can take care
of yourself, you can handleyourself and hide that transfers
across to the business side ofthings or the work side of
(47:12):
things.
Because if you have self-esteem, you then know your worth.
So then you know there's alwaysthat one person in the
workplace who's just beingpolite.
The polite version I can say onthe audio waves is a tool, yeah
, a tool.
But if they're giving you griefyou can tell them to in a way
(47:33):
that's not going to get HR onyour back to get lost.
You know, or you stand up foryourself.
If you have that self-esteem,you know your worth, you know
that you can stand up foryourself.
There's a transferable skillConfidence.
If you have the confidence towalk into the wild and to take
care of yourself, you're goingto have the confidence to go
into your boss and say, boss,I'd like a pay rise or I'd like
(47:55):
to be considered for promotion.
You know that kind of thing.
It's one of those things that alot of people think oh, I'll
just walk into the woods, but Idon't see how this is going to
benefit me here and now.
It's going to hide.
This is going to benefit me inmy work life, so I love the fact
that you mentioned that as well.
(48:15):
So, yeah, a good, actionablestep to get into the woods and
actually learn how to thrive,which I suppose coming full
circle back to what you actuallydo for a living.
You know, people can go on,especially if they're in the
Dorset area or whatever.
Go on your courses and learnhow to learn how to thrive in
the woods or wherever they aregeographically in the world.
(48:35):
There's always going to be,hopefully, a reputable bushcraft
instructor nearby that canteach them to appreciate the
woods, to appreciate theenvironment they're in, to take
care of the environment as well.
You know, because suddenly,once you're into which go, oh,
this is worth saving, this isworth looking after for future
generations as well.
Speaker 2 (48:57):
Yeah, the, the, you can't.
You can't love, protect andlove something if you don't know
what its value is.
Speaker 1 (49:11):
Oh, that's a powerful , that's a powerful statement
right there.
Speaker 2 (49:15):
Well, you know, it's that takes us on to different
subjects.
About whether people should beallowed to interact with wild
places because they ruin them.
I would fundamentally say yes,because if you don't interact
with it and you don't know theworth and you don't go to love
it, then it's just.
It's just another, isn't it?
It's just over there and, oh,we're going to cut it all down.
Well, I don't give a crap,because I've never been there
(49:37):
and I don't.
I don't know what it's worth,but I'm not interested.
So, yeah, I can't remember whatit was just said.
I've gone off in a tangent.
Now again.
Speaker 1 (49:51):
No, that's all right.
It was about the actionablesteps and taking care of the
environment and all that kind ofthing, yeah.
Speaker 2 (49:58):
Yeah, yeah, there's, yeah, there's loads of, there's
loads of things you can do like,yeah, you could, you could also
.
You know there's plenty ofpeople out there that are
looking for volunteers to helpfor hours here and there
maintain, yeah, Old EnglishWoodland and stuff like that.
So there's that sort of stuffas well.
Speaker 1 (50:19):
I mean not, I don't know the specifics by imagine if
, like you're in America, Iimagine there's going to be some
sort of, you know, forestranger program, or if you're in
Asia or South Korea, there'sgoing to be bound to be some
sort of environmental way thatyou know you can help and learn
to appreciate the woods.
And this is good as well,because not only are you getting
into the woods and getting yourown personal benefit from it,
(50:42):
the society around you isbenefiting because the
environment's being looked afterultimately by people who really
do care for it.
So yeah, I mean some people.
I do laugh at sometimes howpeople go.
They hear on the news, oh, thisbig historic Woodlands getting
cut down, and if you're like, oh, no, worries, it doesn't affect
me.
Well, and round about where itdoes, because you know the less
(51:05):
people who are spending time inWoodland, the more everybody's
getting worked up, the moreeverybody's getting stressed out
in this concrete jungle that welive in.
That's just you got to bepermanently hustling, you know.
If you're not, you're notgrinding out 80, 90, our weeks,
you're not really working kindof thing it's.
You know, it's really bad.
Speaker 2 (51:22):
It's really bad.
See, that's not.
That's not around the bush.
You're not people.
You're not designed to work 80hours, 90 hours a week.
It's not the whole point of whywe're on this planet and it's
only a narrative that's beingpumped out for endless growth,
(51:44):
endless, endless GDP increasingendless.
You know we've got to go toimprove this and got to make
that bear and got back out there.
Just stop.
Take a look around, man.
Ever this, this whole 80 hourwork week, what?
Why?
Who's it benefiting?
It's not benefiting you andit's only benefiting 1% of
(52:06):
society, or it's only benefitingyour boss and you're not being
paid enough properly for this.
It's what you're doing.
I am going on a rant now.
Speaker 1 (52:18):
Then for God's sake, stop it.
Yeah, just just saying I'm veryin favor of the way Nordic
countries do things.
They seem to have a very goodbalance of, you know, your
personal life and your work life.
You know.
I think they're even toyingwith the idea of a four day
working week, or something whichI am.
I am 100% game for yeah yeah,yeah, I work for myself.
(52:42):
So maybe I'll graduate to thatlevel one day, john maybe at the
podcast is successful enough ormy standout comedy ticks off.
Who knows well, maybe I'llmaybe do all right.
Speaker 2 (52:55):
It's four day working week.
Scandinavia.
Yeah, they got a lot going on,a lot of benefits, a lot of
pluses.
Speaker 1 (53:04):
And lots of lovely woodland as well, which will
hopefully get the Explorer oneday.
Speaker 2 (53:08):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'm working on a trip to go toFinland, which is just
absolutely glorious.
Just yeah, woodland everywhere.
I think 80% of their country isjust dense woodland.
But yeah, just get outside, getoutside and get some, get some
nature.
Speaker 1 (53:28):
Yeah, maybe that could be just a part of the
actionable steps.
Don't overthink it.
Just get outside.
Getting you.
Yeah, absolutely yeah.
Get into your garden, get it,go on a walk.
There's a really good offer.
I like Alistair Humphries andhe talks about going on micro
adventures or the doorstep mileReally good book.
I really recommend those and itdoesn't need to be a grand blow
(53:49):
to the rings expedition thatjust take a walk a mile around
from your house and you justopen it and see it with new eyes
.
You know, take in whatevernature has to offer.
Speaker 2 (54:00):
What I'd say, is when I was learning to teach someone
, a good friend of mine told methe phrase paralysis by analysis
.
Speaker 1 (54:09):
Yes, I love that phrase.
Speaker 2 (54:11):
Yeah, is that if you overthink, everything you get is
exactly that.
If you analyze stuff too much,you get paralyzed by the fact
that this this, this, thatthere's the other go under it,
like, just don't overthink stuff, just go out and get into
(54:31):
nature, be it a public park orbe a woodland or a mountainous
area or the beach, or just goand just don't think it.
Don't think about anything elseother than I'm going to go
there.
I'm going to sit for half anhour, no phone, no tech.
Leave it in the car, leave itin your room.
(54:53):
Just go and sit and get used tobeing bored, get used to doing
nothing, all right, and I thinkonce you've got used to doing
nothing, you're already going tobe 80% of the way there.
Speaker 1 (55:08):
Yeah, no, 100%.
I totally agree with all ofthat.
The only thing I would say isjust because this is a global
audience, apply good commonsense.
Don't be going into themountains with not the right
gear no phones, no, nothing.
The audience are mostlyintelligent, but for that 1%
here they're like I told me togo to the mountain with no phone
.
That is not what we're saying.
(55:30):
Apply good common sense.
Take a nice coat if you have to, some waterproof, sit in the
woods and chill out with no tech, but don't be going to the
Himalayas with no phone and nogear and things.
Oh, somebody on a podcast toldme to do that.
Speaker 2 (55:49):
No, they were not, don't do that.
Yeah, I'm assuming that abeginner would not go to the
Himalayas, although if you do,if you decide to do that, then
fair play.
Let me know if you get backalive, because that would be
great.
Speaker 1 (56:07):
Yeah, 100%, I think.
To wrap it all up, john, foranybody who is interested in
perhaps getting started inBushcraft or wants to know more
about your own content, wherecan they find you on the socials
and your website?
Speaker 2 (56:24):
Oh yeah.
So wwwwildwaybushcraftcouk forthe website.
If you go onto Facebook andjust search, we'll come up with
a Facebook page there and allthat sort of stuff.
Instagram is at WildwayBushcraft.
There's a lot of running themewith Wildway Bushcraft.
Yeah, there's also a YouTubechannel which we're in the
(56:52):
process of growing at the moment, which is Wildway Bushcraft.
So there's some videos andstuff on there and there's going
to be a bit of a series comingup soon about cooking in the
wild and stuff like that.
But just remember, what I putout on Instagram and Facebook is
all the shiny stuff.
Occasionally I'll put some reallike this is minging, but
(57:17):
everything on Instagram, everyphoto that I put up, is edited
to make it look amazing, as itcan be, Just like everyone else.
It's not particularly.
It's great for inspiration, butit's not real.
Don't judge yourself by theInstagram editing skills of
(57:39):
others.
Speaker 1 (57:39):
Yeah, that's absolutely love.
I can tell you're a really goodbloke, like being able to like.
Yeah, this is going to lookamazing, but just bear in mind
the reality.
You know, absolute top bloke,john.
Yeah, john, I want to say thankyou so much for coming back on
the podcast for a third time.
It's been amazing as always,and, with any luck, we'd love to
(58:02):
have you back on again in thefuture.
Speaker 2 (58:05):
Yeah, Johnny, it's a pleasure.
As always, mate, I love talkingto you.
It's this really cool projectwe've got going on with trying
to tap the guide people that areyounger than yourself in
through the obstacles thatyou've passed already, so I
think it's great.
I'd like you know whenever it'sclever.
I'll come back whenever youwant me.
Speaker 1 (58:26):
Oh, 100%.
I look forward to it.
All the best, John.
Speaker 2 (58:29):
Take care mate.
Speaker 1 (58:30):
Bye-bye.
There you go, folks.
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Bye for now.
Hello everyone and welcome back to the Curious
Ulsterman podcast.
The podcast is designed toequip you with the tools and
wisdom you need to thrive as anadult.
I am your host, johnny aka theCurious Ulsterman, and today I
am joined by my good friend JohnBow of Wildway Bushcraft.
In today's episode we discusshow bushcraft and getting into
the wilds in nature can benefityou physically, emotionally and
(00:31):
mentally, as well as thetransferable skills that you can
acquire and apply in theworkplace.
But without further delay,folks, here is today's episode
into the wild.
Hi, john, welcome back to theshow.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Johnny, nice to see you again, buddy.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Yeah, 100%.
This is your third appearanceon the show as well, and I know
the audience have loved your twoprevious episodes.
They've done very well in thedownloads and, as we were
discussing before, my co-hostloved that one quote from your.
I think it was your secondepisode don't let perfect be the
enemy of good.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Yeah, yeah.
No, it's cool to be back man.
It's really cool, it's reallygood.
I'm super glad that it's allgoing for you.
That's great.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Yeah, 100%, and, with any luck this year, work permit
and I 'll be on some of yourcourses again and back in the
woods.
But today's discussion is wellthe whole topic of getting out
into the woods, getting out intothe wild.
Obviously, given the currentstate of the world in that with
COVID, I'm hoping we're startingto see the light at the end of
(01:36):
the tunnel now, but for the pastcouple of years people have
been stuck inside watching techtalk, youtube, all them kinds of
things and sort of almostdreaming they could be outside
enjoying the wilds and the woodsand stuff, and what you said
just before.
We started recording aboutpeople living vicariously
(01:58):
through YouTube and tech talk.
You know, perhaps that caninspire people to do things, but
it's also not a good way to dothings.
So the first sort of question Iwant to ask you is what is
bushcraft?
Now, I know you've answeredthis question before, but we've
had a bit of a surgeon audienceso for some of them they may not
have heard your previousepisode.
So what is bushcraft and, inyour opinion, how can that help
(02:20):
us become more well roundedpeople in every aspect of our
life, both physically,emotionally, mentally?
Speaker 2 (02:32):
That's a mega question, Right, let's break it
down.
So what is bushcraft?
So basically, basically,bushcraft is a set of skills and
a knowledge set that allows youto thrive in an outdoor
(02:52):
environment.
Be it, you know, woodland ispredominantly where I work out
of, but woodlands, rivers,mountains, deserts, it's all you
know.
It's all encompassing aboutknowing, about learning about
nature, what natural resourcesare out there, what you can do
to make yourself comfortable andreally enjoy the outdoors.
(03:17):
It's completely different fromsurvival, where it's all gone
horribly wrong and you need tojust get out of.
Get out of Dodger or someoneneeds to rescue.
It's going to these places withthe mindset of being out there
for a long time.
Yeah, that would probably.
That's probably the easiest wayof describing what bushcraft is
(03:43):
, but it's such a huge subjectit's like you can go down a
massive rabbit hole on what isbushcraft and there's lots of
people with various differentopinions.
But essentially, that's whatmining is.
It's a set of skills andknowledge that allows you to
enjoy the natural world to amore greater depth.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
That's great.
So because I'm not that mucheducated in it, would that be
closer to say something likemaybe Ray Mears rather than Bear
Grills, or have I got thatpotentially?
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Yeah, well, that's, yeah, that's, yeah.
You could take those twocharacters like Ray Mears, your
sort of archetypal bushcraft TVcelebrity, as it were, that you
see in mixing with theseindigenous tribes, you see in
(04:42):
lighting fire by friction andeating well and making furniture
in the woods and candles andall sorts of stuff, and he's
very comfortable out there andhe can stay out there for a long
time and it's all about thejourney and living alongside
nature.
And then the Bear Grills.
If you take Bear Grills as theextreme survivalist type person
(05:08):
running down slate quarries anddrinking his own urine and
living in camel sleeper.
Yeah, I'm not a fan of BearGrills per se.
It's just, you know it's theother end of the spectrum, you
know it's the other end of the.
It's the other end of it'scomplete opposite, pro-opposite.
You know, like to Ray Mears,bear Grills thing.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Yeah.
So, as you said, bushcraft issuch a complex, nuanced topic,
but at the polar end of theskills you've got Ray Mears Love
and Life in the Woods using hisskills, as you say, to survive
there long term.
I say survive more like thrive,thrive long term.
Whereas Bear Grills is.
You've landed in the woods andyou need to survive.
(05:52):
That's the polar end of thatspectrum, but in between is a
wealth of knowledge that peoplecan benefit from, so to speak.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Yeah, for sure.
I think it's good as well totalk about getting into the
woods, because I feel that Isaid getting into the woods,
let's open it up, let's get itjust getting into nature,
because we've a global audience,like I've got people inside of
Korea, america and America's gotdiverse ecosystems as well,
obviously Europe, so we'll usethe generic term outdoors.
(06:25):
But obviously my experience andobviously your wealth of
experience is in the woods.
I think a lot of people go oh,I want to get into nature.
I see it on TikTok, I see it onYouTube and I'm sick of living
in this concrete jungle, I'msick of living in the same four
walls of my house and I want toget out there and enjoy it.
(06:46):
But weirdly, some people don'tknow how to start that.
I think they can see this as oh, I'm going to go to the woods,
what do I do?
They pull up to you like anational park or something, or
they get out of their car andthey go.
They walk through the woods andlike, okay, what am I supposed
to do now?
For me, personally, I havelucky enough that I know just to
(07:06):
be present in the moment, justto enjoy the sights, the signs,
that kind of thing.
But I feel like in this age,people feel like they need to be
productive 24 seven, and thatincludes being in the woods.
Oh, I've got to be doingsomething productive and I've
got to be getting something fromthis.
Or what's your advice forpeople who, let's just say, they
(07:27):
never have been in the woods?
And I can say that because Ihad a good friend of mine the
first time we went to Wales.
He had never seen a sheepproper time.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Never seen a sheep.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
So yeah, unreal, like proper concrete jungle.
He's never.
He had never seen a sheep.
So, for people who who live inthe cities and want to start
getting an appreciation ofnature, where would you suggest
they start?
And when they are in thewhatever ecosystem they are in,
what would you recommend they do, so to speak?
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Oh, that's the beauty of it, there is.
You know, if you're in the, ifyou've managed to get into the
woods already and you're like,oh, what do I do?
The whole point of being innature, in wild places, is that
generally there is, you don'tneed to do anything, you're
already there, so you know it's.
(08:25):
There's an old.
I don't know if I've told youabout it, but I've told you
about the art of doing nothing.
There's a Victorian explorerand he documented this
indigenous tribe in the jungleall right back in the sort of
late 1800s.
And he was late 1800s, early1900s, whenever Queen Victoria
(08:49):
was around.
History's not the strong word,but he was documenting this
tribe and he was just like man,the men of the tribe, they're
just, you know, they're reallylazy.
He started his documentarieslike they're really lazy, they
don't do anything.
They go out, they hunt, theycome back, they sit around the
(09:10):
fire and they don't do anything.
They're not productive, they'renot, they're not, they're just
wasting time.
They could be doing so muchmore.
And and he carried on studyingthem for months and it wasn't
till the to the end of his sortof time with them that he dawned
on him that actually thesepeople are perfect at the art of
(09:31):
doing nothing.
So they if you take that to amodern thing, I mean they
they're quite happy being bored.
If there's nothing to do, thenthey're quite happy living in
the moment and just not doingsomething.
You know, if nothing he's doing, then why bother running around
like lunatics?
It's like the, the, the analogyof the fisherman and the
(09:54):
businessman.
Have you heard?
Speaker 1 (09:55):
that one.
I have heard it, but I'd bewilling to hear it again if you
have.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Yeah, so as a businessman goes on holiday and
he stumbles across littlefisherman and then he's like
that's, that's conversation.
What's what's your catch beenlike today?
He's like I've caught four fish.
And now I'm going back to myfamily and he's like, but it's
only 10 o'clock in the morning.
He's like, yeah, but I'vecaught four fish.
He's like you're really lazy.
You should be.
(10:19):
You know, you should becatching 10 fish and then
selling six down the market, andthen you could buy a boat, and
then you buy a fleet of boatsand then you could do this, and
then by the time you're 60, youcould retire.
And then he's like yeah, andthen what would I do?
He's like well, then you couldspend the morning fishing and
then go home and spend it withyour family.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
So oh I love that story.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
The beauty of being in the woods or in the wild
places is that you get thatdisconnect from the hustle and
bustle of the nine to fiveconcrete jungle.
So people that, yeah, if you'rein the woods and there's, what
do I do now?
That's the point, it's to donothing, it's to just enjoy it
(11:01):
and enjoy it.
Go and look at stuff, yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
I love that.
Can I, can I just say that Ican say with 100% certainty that
the top in the top five momentsof my life, 100% has been at.
Two of them have been on yourcanoe expeditions, when we've
been just like the first onewould be.
I was when we were doing thethe Great Glen.
(11:27):
It was the Great Glen.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Yeah, the first one.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
I went on and it wasn't until day three.
Weirdly enough, I would almostdescribe it as like a
decompression from civilizationand like we were.
I think it was the day beforewe got into Loch Ness.
I remember just for some reasonI had pulled slightly ahead of
the main group and I was bymyself.
(11:49):
There was no one around me forlike at least you know, 200
meters or whatever, and it wasjust deafening silence and you
were just totally alone in theenvironment and it was this
weird I don't know how todescribe it it was.
It was this weird stress relief.
It was this weird likeresonance with nature, almost it
just it was such a calmingeffect that you know it's.
(12:14):
It's incredibly hard to describe, but I'm sure you experience it
all the time.
You know you hustle and bustleof life and as soon as you get
into the woods you're just inyour element.
There's just that, thatoverwhelming calmness,
appreciation for nature, livingin the moment.
It's.
It's such a surreal experienceand the first time I experienced
(12:34):
it I was like whoa, like, sothis is how your ancestors lived
.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Yeah, and that's, that's yeah.
Well, firstly, it's veryhumbling to hear that two of
your best life experiences sofar have been on a course with
me.
Yeah, but that's the point.
This is how our ancestors lived.
I mean, we've lived modernhumans, say.
The last 300 years have beenlike this.
(13:01):
Maybe not to this sort ofextent, but, you know, building
up to this.
This is a speck of time reallyon the on the human timeline,
where this is what we live isnot how we are evolved to live.
You know, we're not evolved tobe, to be looking at bone
screens and having informationbombarded left, right and center
(13:26):
and I'm not a Luddite, I mean,I use technology all the time,
but it's, it's not how we weredesigned to live.
So, going back to a woodlandand just sat around a campfire
the amount of times that peoplesay to me oh, there's something
like primeval about looking,staring, sitting around as a
group around the campfire andstaring into a campfire it does.
(13:48):
There is something primeval.
I can't put my.
I call it caveman TV.
It's just like pretty, prettyflames.
There is something about a smallgroup of people, um, sat around
and sharing an experience in innature.
That really brings peopletogether and and that's part of
(14:12):
the beauty of it for me is thatyou can go into the woods and
completely, or into the wild bythe rivers, you know, whatever
the mountain and really reallyjust relax and disconnect from
the modern hustle and bustle.
And I think that I think thatthat's something that I shout
(14:36):
about all the time with,certainly for mental health
issues and stuff like that, andthat's what I think is it's so
important to do.
It's so important, it's it'salmost well, it is for me, it's
a necessity, but it's in.
Yeah, man, I'd love to dragpeople out and they look
(14:57):
experienced this, but it'sreally something you have to
open yourself up to withoutsounding a bit a bit like
religious.
Welcome the woods into yourlife, man.
Yeah, it's like.
Yeah, I feel like I'm waffling abit, but I'm trying to just
find the right words, trying tofind the right words to describe
(15:19):
it it's if you've got into thewoods, you're already there, man
, and if you can't accesswoodland I mean, I was in London
a little while ago and thereare green spaces in London, or
even in your back garden thereare there are plants that you
can go into your back garden andlook at nature, even if it's
(15:40):
some, you know, even if it's abumblebee flying around, or you
know way ants work and move, andyou can, you can just
experience that tiny little bitand then, hopefully, that leads
on, and leads on, and leads on.
Not to mention that there'sfree food in your garden, yeah,
which is always good, yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
And the subject of food, two things that makes you
do John's foraging course thathe does, that's very good and
also my.
We were actually talking aboutyou yesterday after we finished
our episode, me and Nathan.
He said I'm talking to Johntomorrow.
He says, oh, yeah, he's a greatguy.
I said have you got anyquestions for me?
He says yeah, I'd love to knowabout some foraging.
And I was like, yeah,definitely he's the man for it.
(16:23):
So we'll definitely have todiscuss that at some point or
another.
Yeah, yeah.
But I think you hit the nail inthe head that you know you don't
have to go to a great nationalpark to experience the wild,
even going out to your backgarden, taking your shoes off
and just walking in some grass.
It's not perfect, but it's.
(16:45):
It's different, isn't it?
Yeah, and you know, if you knowwhat you're doing and you're,
you're, you know, with a goodcommon sense and and and
extremely good knowledge.
Yes, there are edibles in yourgarden, you in the woods, and I
mean, I've remembered.
The one of my strangest lifeexperiences was the first time
(17:05):
you showed our little group inthe middle of the Scottish
Islands how to like find pig nut.
Oh, yeah, and then it's and thenit shoots off randomly like a
90 degree angle and I remember Iremember being, exactly as you
said, sat around a campfire inthe middle of the Scottish
Highlands where a bunch ofpeople I barely knew, but after
two days I felt like I'd knownthem forever and we're sat
(17:26):
around eating pig nut fresh fromthe ground around.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
It's just, it's a real experience.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
So yeah, it is, one is and it and that's.
You know you make a really goodpoint in that you don't have to
go to these.
You know wilderness, massivewilderness areas, they're
amazing.
You know what I mean, If youcan do it.
Yeah, and it's something I getfrustrated with, you know,
(17:53):
working out of UK woodlands isthat we don't have like these
vast amounts of areas where youcan disappear for days and not
see any sort of sign of humaninteraction with nature.
And I'm constantly like bangingon to my wife saying, oh, I
(18:15):
want to get a Canada and likeliterally just get lost.
It's not, it shouldn't be abarrier.
There are still really, reallycool pockets of the UK to go and
visit and, like you say, you'vegot a global audience now, so
there'll be really cool pocketsof other countries.
(18:36):
You know that even in built upcities and stuff like that,
there'll be these little pockets.
And you, just the best advice Iwould give would be not to get
overwhelmed.
It would be not to go oninternet forums that talk about
Bushcraft, Because there's somany people who go down so many
(18:57):
nuances and people have theirown opinions.
I would literally pick up acouple of books and go do it old
school like, without soundinglike a I'm 40 in May, without
sounding like a middle-aged man,or read, read, I would.
You know.
I would pick up a couple ofbooks about the subject and find
(19:19):
your own way, find your ownpath and find what interests you
about the outdoors and that'show I would say, to get into it.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
On the subject of books, you and your friend did
write a book actually not, Ithink about it.
Was it Bushcraft of the Familyor something?
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Yeah, yeah it was Bushcraft of the Family Guide
it's going to.
It's got out print now.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
I should open it on Kindle at least.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Oh yeah, it's on Kindle.
Oh good, good, good, it's onKindle.
And that, you know, that's like.
That's just a sign of themodern times is that there's
some.
We wrote this book.
They sold as many copies asthey.
They deemed that they needed tosell to make their money back,
and then they were like right,next thing.
And so it's.
But you know, that's just howpublishers make money, man.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
It's just like if people were still buying it,
it'd still be on sales, wouldn'tit and personally, I think I
must have got one of the lastcopies, because I do have a
physical copy of it.
Yeah, nice.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
That's great.
I think you can buy that aphysical copy for 150 quid on
Amazon or something like that.
Between you and me, I probablywouldn't buy it.
No, I have my own book in thescript.
Yeah, man, I really enjoyreading the old, old books, like
there's some really really oldbooks written at the turn of the
century, 19th century, yeah,and I've, like you know, they
(20:44):
were called pioneers exploringAmerica and all that sort of
stuff.
And Canada kept heart is one Ireally enjoy reading the
generate.
Younger generations might readit and be absolutely disgusted
at the language that's used, butit's, it was written of a sign
(21:07):
of its times.
So just take that and take thatinto account.
But yeah, no, that would be mygo.
Yeah, really dive into thehistory of it.
But I feel like I've gone offtangent, which is not unusual
for me.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
No, not at all, I think, if you can give it,
because there's how to put apolitely strange people in every
sector of life and every hobbyand every you know subject.
I think bushcraft is noexception.
You can end up getting yourpurists and you can get your
people who.
I did a nuance.
But for the average Joe let'ssay university student, and
(21:47):
you're stuck, you've justsmashed in, you know 80 hours of
a week between work, revision,and you're getting burned out.
And you're scrolling throughtech talk and you just happen to
see all these people live intheir best lives, going through
the woods, beach, all this kindof thing.
Well, I want some of that, andyou've explained very well how
(22:10):
to get into it, how to like evenyou don't need to.
You don't need to go to a hugenational park.
Even your university campus isbound to have some sort of
greenery that you can enjoy andthings like that.
But could you maybe go oversome of the benefits you know
physically, mentally andemotionally that people can
(22:32):
expect or likely expect whenthey even get, when they start
to get into nature, because Ifeel like that's really
important to discuss.
As you say before, it's, it'sprimal to get as high our
ancestors lived and we haven't,thankfully, evolved out of that
yet.
So people do, naturally, aredrawn to nature.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Yeah, yeah, first and foremost, is that you use the.
You know, you've, you'vesmashed out all this time.
You were taking this universityperson and you've watched
Instagram or TikTok and youdecided that you see all these
people live in their best life.
I think it's first andfundamentally that for people to
(23:18):
know that that 30 seconds is,or whatever however long the
video is is is massivelyenhanced.
He's not real.
Yeah, that's the first thing.
That's the first thing to youknow, I've got an 11 year old
son now and that's massivelyopen my eyes and that is it.
(23:39):
That's not real life and that'snot what they are doing.
I was driving through Scotland,the Glencove area absolutely
gorgeous and there's three likecrags called the three sisters.
Right, they're absolutelybeautiful, they're all covered
in greenery, is waterfallsfalling down them and there's a
viewing spot and in that viewingspot was a queue All right, a
(24:04):
massive queue, maybe like 30, 40people and lots of girls, very,
very pretty girls in leggingsdoing like star jumps and
someone taking an Instagramphoto and then they were getting
back in their cars and movingon.
They're not.
You really need to take whatyou see on social media with a
pinch of salt, because there'swhat people portray and there's
(24:29):
what people do, all right, and Ithink that's really, really
important these days in that youdon't judge yourself by
people's 32nd Facebook clipswith filters and Instagram
models, and you know.
I just think that's importantto say I might sound like a
(24:49):
really, really old, grumpy man.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
I just you know, I totally in total agreement with
you, John, total agreement.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
I mean, and it's I mean even I suffer with it
sometimes to look at some, likeyou know, children, their sex
positions, and if you're like 30year old, out there at the top
of that mountain in the middleof nowhere, that's amazing.
But it's, you know, it's just abrief snap and it might not
even be real.
It might be photoshop, it mightnot be real.
So that's that's what I wouldsay.
(25:18):
Sorry, man.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
No, no, no, 100% agree.
And something that a lot ofpeople will not show is they'll
not show the delayed flights,you know getting stopped at
customs.
They'll not show the carbreaking down on the way to the
to getting the foot was shit.
They'll not show, you know, thecouple, the happy couple,
smiling in the photograph,arguing for all day before
because they're tired, and youknow it's it's.
(25:40):
It's the only showing the goodside and not the complex nuances
of, say, full time travel oreven just even just a day out in
the woods.
So you know you hit the nail inthe head, john, 100%.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Yeah.
So what?
What so?
Yeah.
So going back to yourhypothetical student or young
person, I mean, I'm notinterested in that kind of that.
What I would say is that if youcan get yourself to somewhere,
that is, let's take a woodlandenvironment and you can maybe
(26:12):
fill up like a flask or thermalmug of tea or something and just
a hot drink and someone to siton be it a jacket or a chair or
something and just go and situnderneath a tree for half an
hour and be completely still.
It might feel like the mostalien thing possible for you to
(26:33):
do after busting a gut for eighthours a week, but you will be
blown away by what you see.
To start with, you'll be blownaway by how close the small bits
of nature come to you and thefirst thing you'll probably see
(26:59):
is small robins and birds andstuff like that.
That would be my life.
That's the first step.
Go and do that.
You need to learn how to slowdown would be the most important
thing.
You need to learn how to slowdown and ground yourself and not
be running around at a millionmiles an hour, because that's
(27:23):
not what we were designed to dorun around at a million miles an
hour.
I forgot on the rest of thequestion.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
No, that's all right.
It actually lines up perfectlyfor the question, because
learning to slow down and to bein that moment, I think, is the
foundations of wellness.
But the question was what arethe physical, emotional and
mental benefits?
I don't think you can explorethem and get the full potential
(27:56):
from them until you get out ofthe quote-unquote rat race of
whatever it is you're doing like, whether that be studying for
university or your job orwhatever.
Learning to slow down would beprobably the foundational point,
wouldn't it?
Then you can get the physical,mental and emotional benefits,
which?
What do you think they are?
Speaker 2 (28:21):
First of all, the physical benefits of being in
wild places and doing exercise.
The physical benefits,obviously chemical releases of
serotonin and all those goodstuff that gives us that feeling
of well-being, getting theblood pumping and the heart
going of doing any physicalexercises is great, but out in
(28:44):
nature you get thatawe-inspiring view of the views
and the fresh air.
It gives your head a break, itgives you time to physically
relax and gives you somethinking space.
One thing I found that wasreally scary for me was that
(29:07):
actually it takes a lot ofcourage to be on your own and
quiet even for an hour, becauseyou're left with nowhere.
It's just you and your thoughts.
You're left with nowhere tohide.
(29:28):
That can be quite a bigchallenge for people and there's
just you and your thoughts.
You literally have nowhere tohide.
That, I say, would be one ofthe benefits, hugely mentally,
is that it gives you time toaddress some of your hang-ups,
(29:51):
to think about your goals andhow, whether you're acting for
other people, are you actuallyon the right path for yourself?
It gives you time to be honestwith yourself and that can
sometimes be quite a scary thing, I think, for people to realise
(30:14):
that actually they've joinedthis university course because
their dad always wanted them tobe a doctor, or they feel that
society wants them to do this,and actually they would rather
be doing something that was moreself-fulfilling as opposed to
(30:37):
earning X amount of money a yearbecause, yeah, you need a
certain amount of money to live.
I'm not disputing that, butsometimes it does more harm than
good.
Chase, working, living forsomebody else does that make?
Speaker 1 (30:55):
sense, 100%.
I'm feeling really convictedwith that at the minute because
for me, if money wasn't anobject, I would be going on
personally, my own ambitions.
I'd be going on expeditions.
I don't know what I'm doing,but I would be trying to learn
Bushcraft on its fullest.
I'd be trying to.
It's a big world out there andI'd love to see it all
(31:19):
physically impossible to do.
But you're right, you do haveto make a certain amount of
money to live and with,hopefully, my ambitions, I would
make a modest amount of moneythat I can go and do the things
I want to do and live life on myterms.
But 100% agree with everythingyou said and that effect that
(31:40):
you talked about, about being inthe woods or being in the wild
and you're alone with yourthoughts.
That's probably one of thebiggest things that affected me
as well in my maturity as aperson.
So I think when I first went onone of your canoe expeditions,
I think I was about 24, 25 andthat's a weird time for an adult
(32:02):
like quote unquote your quarterlife crisis as it's now being.
Is that right?
Is that a thing?
That's a new thing now.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Pardon, how sad is that?
Yeah, it is how sad is thatthat's the society where we've
got to 25 and they're like right, if you live to 100, you're a
quarter way through your life.
You need to have a crisis now.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
Yeah, it's like, oh, have I got the enough safe dot
for the house yet?
Am I reaching my goals?
Am I being a bum?
Should I be in a seriousrelationship by now?
All these things, it's allthese like societal expectations
.
And then obviously no soonerare you over your quarter life
crisis and you're into yourmidlife crisis.
(32:41):
Well, why do we have to have acrisis at all?
Why not just live life on ourterms as best we can?
But that all came to a headwhen I was in that canoe by
myself.
I remember my first ever timeon a canoe, expad, and you're
(33:01):
like right, johnny, so one ofthe guys doesn't turn them up,
do you mind being in a canoe byyourself?
And I was like, okay, and,having never set foot in a canoe
, I'm paddling in that littlestream of Neptune Stereochis in
four William, and I'm going incircles.
I could just see you, hand onface.
Oh no it's going to be a longfive days, but that was a
(33:26):
blessing in disguise because,like as we mentioned previously,
when I was by myself in thatglen, at least for like a good
20 minutes, talking to no one,alone in the wild, and I
suddenly realized, wow, like youknow, you do, you cannot help
but have some form of reflection, some form of you know.
How the hell did I get to thispoint in my life?
(33:48):
What am I doing?
Who am I?
What are my values?
And you, suddenly, suddenly youget a lot of clarity with what
really matters in life, and it'snot the paycheck, it's not your
social status, it's not the caryou drive, it's am I happy?
Am I?
Am I living life to my values?
(34:08):
Am I living?
Speaker 2 (34:09):
life yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
Yeah, Am I living life when I'm here to?
I'm going to not, you know,regret it and that kind of thing
.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
So you're on this side to put your nose right.
You're on this planet, man, forsuch a brief snort of time,
like say, let's say, 80 years,100 years, if you're lucky.
It's like if, if you're nothappy, then doing what you're
(34:37):
doing, then for God's sake,change it, man.
Yeah, because you've, there'sso much more to life than you if
you're not happy.
What a sad, what a sad, sadstate of affairs that you're
living your life and you're notenjoying it.
Yeah, yeah.
We all have ups and downs and wehave bereavements and things
don't go our way and you knowyou can't be euphoric and happy
(34:59):
all the time.
No one's, no one's expectingyou to do that.
But if you're having more baddays and good, then I would just
I would urge you as a, assomeone that's got is in the
prime of their, their sort oftime 25, you know, young people,
18 to sort of 25 or whatever.
(35:20):
You just change my.
Do something, really reallyground yourself, really really
think about what makes you happyand and aim for that or work
towards that.
I mean, I'm not, I'm not sayingyou should give everything up
and, you know, make a changeovernight if you're not in the
(35:41):
situation to do it.
Be pragmatic and practicalabout it, of course.
But yeah, I would just urgepeople someone that is turning
40 in a few months time forGod's sake, don't, don't live
your life unhappy.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
Bloody hell.
Yeah, that's a hell of a bit ofadvice right there.
I may also say you look likeyou're in your late 20s rather
than turning 40, so fair for you.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
John, it's just filters man.
It's the guy who does it.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
Thank you very much.
I'll maybe acquire some of them, filters for when I need them,
maybe look good in the instantlight.
My little shoddy web camera onmy computer Not 100%.
I think that something I'vebeen liking to do on these
(36:32):
episodes is to give actionablesteps to the audience.
I think by accident we may haveeven got our first actionable
step for the audience.
If you would agree that, maybesit down like if you've got a
busy schedule I know it'll behard, but find maybe 30 minutes
to even sit in the woods, sit insome sort of nature, and even
(36:57):
write down or journal or reflectand think what actually makes
you happy.
Why are you doing the thingyou're doing?
Why are you on this course ofaction?
Even maybe, if you asked me tolist off maybe the top four or
five experiences of my life, Icould probably rhyme it off in
about 30 seconds, because I havedone that, I have sat down and
(37:18):
I have dialed in what I like,what makes me happy, what I'd
love to do if money wasn't anobject, if you don't know.
A good question I like to askpeople that stumps them, which
is quite sad, is if money was noobject, what would you do they
sort of look a bit what?
Oh?
I've never actually thoughtabout that.
(37:39):
They never actually thought,yeah, what do I actually like to
do?
They've gotten maybe betweenthe ages of 18 and 25, nearly 30
, whatever, actually, no, well,increase the age range, let's
say up to 50, 60.
They've never actually sat downand thought, yeah, what do I
actually like to do?
If money was no object, whatwould I do?
(37:59):
I think you're in the extremelyfortunate position that you get
to do what you love every day,and not only that, you get to
teach people it as well andspread that knowledge.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
It's funny, yeah, yeah, because if money was no
object, I would still be doingthis.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
Yeah, but there you go.
You're probably a single digitpercentage of people who are
doing that and kudos to you.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
Yeah, and I think it's important that people know
that, from my point of view, alot of this has been luck.
I've managed to do some time inthe mob and I've got a military
and I got injured and I got anincome that sustains me, so me
(38:46):
and my family.
So I think a lot of it is.
I only managed to get hold ofsome woodland because I had
cancer and I had insurance, so alot of it has been luck.
Please don't you know I'm not,but yeah, I am fortunate that
even if I was mintedmulti-millionaire, I won a lot
(39:07):
of Euro millions on Friday, butI'd still be doing this.
So so go on, yeah.
So I think, yeah, I amfortunate, I am lucky, but it's
not unobtainable for people.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
Yeah, I like that as well.
I think it's really importantto bring that into the
conversation, that, while youpersonally have made a lot of
good choices that have resultedin the rewards that you now
enjoy, yes, like every situation, there's a certain amount of
luck, that uncertainty isinvolved.
You know it's so interesting.
We were having thisconversation and work the other
(39:44):
day and we were describing how,you know, if we did win the
lottery, what would we do?
And my honest answer is, at mycurrent age and circumstances,
it would be.
I would love to just put itaway and some sort of investment
thing, live off interest.
I wouldn't.
I don't want a flashy car, Idon't want a big house, I don't
want any of that.
I just want to go off and doweird and obscure jobs.
(40:07):
So, like something I've alwayswanted, something I've always
wanted to do and I don't knowwhy is at least experience.
Once you know that, do you knowthat it was called deadliest
catch?
Do a season?
Oh, yeah, yeah, and the bearingstraight, and the bearing
straight yeah, just be afisherman in the bearing
straight for a season and thenafter that, I don't know, go do
(40:27):
something in hospitality andafter that maybe go and do I
don't know, just weird andwonderful jobs everywhere.
Because so you know, I've donethe North Coast 500 twice now
and I don't know I'm not doingthat in April.
Oh, are you?
Yeah, I'll give you some tips,because there was a couple of
hairy moments that I shouldprobably be wary of.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
But the.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
Thing that, let's be honest, scotland is one of the
most beautiful countries in theworld, if not the most beautiful
but at the same time, for allthe views, all this, it was the
people I met along the way thatreally made it into the really
made the experience and hearingtheir stories and you know,
(41:08):
having my own, having my own,having my own perspectives and
beliefs challenged, I'm in avery fortunate position.
Whatever way I've developed, Ikind of like being proved wrong.
Like if I'm holding a view andsomebody challenges, they go oh
crap, what if I'm wrong?
And you're not going to getthat, being stuck in your room
(41:28):
or in your university campusscrolling through tech talk and
Facebook and echo chambers ofpeople who all agree with you.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
So yeah, you know absolutely.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
Yeah.
So I think that's that'sextremely important.
So I would say yeah, firstactionable step would be to sit
down in nature or youruniversity campus greenery
ground, whatever in your backgarden and really hammer out
what are your values, what makesyou happy, what if money was no
object?
What would you do?
And I think that's a goodstarting point, and with sitting
(42:01):
in nature you'll get thatclarity as well.
You can physically and mentallydecompress from the hustle of
city life, from life in general,and just get your own personal
headspace to work with.
Big thing.
I'm a fan of journaling, I love,love journaling.
Just, I tend to like word vomitonto a page doesn't have to
make sense, but it's just niceto get thoughts down to, and it
(42:24):
helps as well, I think, withboth your, your mental and
emotional health too.
I'd give it back to you.
Actually, what would you say isan actionable step for?
So they've, so they've gotteninto the woods, they've hammered
out you know what, what makesthem happy and all that kind of
thing.
But there's no, it's actuallyI've got the, I've got the bug
(42:44):
now for getting into the wildand to nature, all that kind of
thing.
What would you then suggest isan actionable step for getting
into the wild, for really livingit to its fullest, both
physically well, all threephysically, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:03):
And so if you caught the bug, then some actual skill,
you know, get some actualphysical skills so you can start
, you know, you can startexploring it at all times of the
year.
So, my, you know, the key one,I suppose, would be learning how
to make a, make a fire, and itcould be any method, man, it
(43:24):
doesn't have to be fire byfriction, it could be cotton,
wool and Vaseline and acigarette lighter, it doesn't
matter.
At the end of the day, you justgot to get a fire going.
So who cares how you do it?
I'm especially if it's just youknow, just you.
I mean getting some core skills, being getting comfortable,
getting comfortable and beingcomfortable in the outdoors.
(43:44):
So I would say, highlightingand then, and some tool, use
some skills, some tools toenable you to make things that
are will enhance your life outthere, you know, and also allows
you to a knife and learn how touse a knife appropriately,
(44:10):
learn how to do a bit of carving.
And then, all of a sudden,you've gone from someone who
just like, likes the outdoorsand likes to peace and quiet, to
being able to keep yourselfwarm without carrying loads of
kit and also being able tofashion, useful items, be it
something to hang your kettle onor pot hanger or and these are
(44:34):
all basic, really fundamentalskills or something to something
to eat with or you know what orwhatever it is that you've
decided you're going to makesome 10 pegs or something like
this is all real basic stuff.
And then all of a sudden you'vegone from like I'm now carrying
(44:54):
less equipment so I can rely onmy own skills, and with that
comes a confidence, and withthat confidence comes self
esteem, and with more selfesteem comes more confidence,
and it's like this big spiral ofoh hold on, I can really look
(45:20):
after myself out in a wilderness, in the woods.
And those skills aretransferable to modern society
as well.
You know, not obviously goingaround setting fires in
university campuses, but theyare confidence and self-esteem.
They are transferable skills,self-reliance you can rely on
(45:44):
yourself to be in the middle ofnowhere and come out quite happy
.
There's a line in one of theKEPPA books I was talking about
earlier on.
It says a man who knows thewilderness is never truly lost
when he lays his bedroll, hishome type thing.
(46:05):
And with that I can go into thewoods and be completely happy,
or into the wild and becompletely happy and not panic
when others around you arerunning around like lunatics.
With that come transferableskills to within a business
environment.
I don't know who said it, butit was like if you can hold your
head when the rest of theworld's running around, oh,
(46:28):
you're a man, my son yeah.
Man, woman, he, she, they.
I'm a debt form, that sort ofstuff these days.
But yeah, that's where I'dstart, like learn the basics,
get comfortable and then decidewhich way you want to take it.
Speaker 1 (46:51):
Yeah, I love what you just said there as well about
how having that an epicconfidence, knowing you can
stand on your own two feet,knowing that you can take care
of yourself, you can handleyourself and hide that transfers
across to the business side ofthings or the work side of
(47:12):
things.
Because if you have self-esteem, you then know your worth.
So then you know there's alwaysthat one person in the
workplace who's just beingpolite.
The polite version I can say onthe audio waves is a tool, yeah
, a tool.
But if they're giving you griefyou can tell them to in a way
(47:33):
that's not going to get HR onyour back to get lost.
You know, or you stand up foryourself.
If you have that self-esteem,you know your worth, you know
that you can stand up foryourself.
There's a transferable skillConfidence.
If you have the confidence towalk into the wild and to take
care of yourself, you're goingto have the confidence to go
into your boss and say, boss,I'd like a pay rise or I'd like
(47:55):
to be considered for promotion.
You know that kind of thing.
It's one of those things that alot of people think oh, I'll
just walk into the woods, but Idon't see how this is going to
benefit me here and now.
It's going to hide.
This is going to benefit me inmy work life, so I love the fact
that you mentioned that as well.
(48:15):
So, yeah, a good, actionablestep to get into the woods and
actually learn how to thrive,which I suppose coming full
circle back to what you actuallydo for a living.
You know, people can go on,especially if they're in the
Dorset area or whatever.
Go on your courses and learnhow to learn how to thrive in
the woods or wherever they aregeographically in the world.
(48:35):
There's always going to be,hopefully, a reputable bushcraft
instructor nearby that canteach them to appreciate the
woods, to appreciate theenvironment they're in, to take
care of the environment as well.
You know, because suddenly,once you're into which go, oh,
this is worth saving, this isworth looking after for future
generations as well.
Speaker 2 (48:57):
Yeah, the, the, you can't.
You can't love, protect andlove something if you don't know
what its value is.
Speaker 1 (49:11):
Oh, that's a powerful , that's a powerful statement
right there.
Speaker 2 (49:15):
Well, you know, it's that takes us on to different
subjects.
About whether people should beallowed to interact with wild
places because they ruin them.
I would fundamentally say yes,because if you don't interact
with it and you don't know theworth and you don't go to love
it, then it's just.
It's just another, isn't it?
It's just over there and, oh,we're going to cut it all down.
Well, I don't give a crap,because I've never been there
(49:37):
and I don't.
I don't know what it's worth,but I'm not interested.
So, yeah, I can't remember whatit was just said.
I've gone off in a tangent.
Now again.
Speaker 1 (49:51):
No, that's all right.
It was about the actionablesteps and taking care of the
environment and all that kind ofthing, yeah.
Speaker 2 (49:58):
Yeah, yeah, there's, yeah, there's loads of, there's
loads of things you can do like,yeah, you could, you could also
.
You know there's plenty ofpeople out there that are
looking for volunteers to helpfor hours here and there
maintain, yeah, Old EnglishWoodland and stuff like that.
So there's that sort of stuffas well.
Speaker 1 (50:19):
I mean not, I don't know the specifics by imagine if
, like you're in America, Iimagine there's going to be some
sort of, you know, forestranger program, or if you're in
Asia or South Korea, there'sgoing to be bound to be some
sort of environmental way thatyou know you can help and learn
to appreciate the woods.
And this is good as well,because not only are you getting
into the woods and getting yourown personal benefit from it,
(50:42):
the society around you isbenefiting because the
environment's being looked afterultimately by people who really
do care for it.
So yeah, I mean some people.
I do laugh at sometimes howpeople go.
They hear on the news, oh, thisbig historic Woodlands getting
cut down, and if you're like, oh, no, worries, it doesn't affect
me.
Well, and round about where itdoes, because you know the less
(51:05):
people who are spending time inWoodland, the more everybody's
getting worked up, the moreeverybody's getting stressed out
in this concrete jungle that welive in.
That's just you got to bepermanently hustling, you know.
If you're not, you're notgrinding out 80, 90, our weeks,
you're not really working kindof thing it's.
You know, it's really bad.
Speaker 2 (51:22):
It's really bad.
See, that's not.
That's not around the bush.
You're not people.
You're not designed to work 80hours, 90 hours a week.
It's not the whole point of whywe're on this planet and it's
only a narrative that's beingpumped out for endless growth,
(51:44):
endless, endless GDP increasingendless.
You know we've got to go toimprove this and got to make
that bear and got back out there.
Just stop.
Take a look around, man.
Ever this, this whole 80 hourwork week, what?
Why?
Who's it benefiting?
It's not benefiting you andit's only benefiting 1% of
(52:06):
society, or it's only benefitingyour boss and you're not being
paid enough properly for this.
It's what you're doing.
I am going on a rant now.
Speaker 1 (52:18):
Then for God's sake, stop it.
Yeah, just just saying I'm veryin favor of the way Nordic
countries do things.
They seem to have a very goodbalance of, you know, your
personal life and your work life.
You know.
I think they're even toyingwith the idea of a four day
working week, or something whichI am.
I am 100% game for yeah yeah,yeah, I work for myself.
(52:42):
So maybe I'll graduate to thatlevel one day, john maybe at the
podcast is successful enough ormy standout comedy ticks off.
Who knows well, maybe I'llmaybe do all right.
Speaker 2 (52:55):
It's four day working week.
Scandinavia.
Yeah, they got a lot going on,a lot of benefits, a lot of
pluses.
Speaker 1 (53:04):
And lots of lovely woodland as well, which will
hopefully get the Explorer oneday.
Speaker 2 (53:08):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'm working on a trip to go toFinland, which is just
absolutely glorious.
Just yeah, woodland everywhere.
I think 80% of their country isjust dense woodland.
But yeah, just get outside, getoutside and get some, get some
nature.
Speaker 1 (53:28):
Yeah, maybe that could be just a part of the
actionable steps.
Don't overthink it.
Just get outside.
Getting you.
Yeah, absolutely yeah.
Get into your garden, get it,go on a walk.
There's a really good offer.
I like Alistair Humphries andhe talks about going on micro
adventures or the doorstep mileReally good book.
I really recommend those and itdoesn't need to be a grand blow
(53:49):
to the rings expedition thatjust take a walk a mile around
from your house and you justopen it and see it with new eyes
.
You know, take in whatevernature has to offer.
Speaker 2 (54:00):
What I'd say, is when I was learning to teach someone
, a good friend of mine told methe phrase paralysis by analysis
.
Speaker 1 (54:09):
Yes, I love that phrase.
Speaker 2 (54:11):
Yeah, is that if you overthink, everything you get is
exactly that.
If you analyze stuff too much,you get paralyzed by the fact
that this this, this, thatthere's the other go under it,
like, just don't overthink stuff, just go out and get into
(54:31):
nature, be it a public park orbe a woodland or a mountainous
area or the beach, or just goand just don't think it.
Don't think about anything elseother than I'm going to go
there.
I'm going to sit for half anhour, no phone, no tech.
Leave it in the car, leave itin your room.
(54:53):
Just go and sit and get used tobeing bored, get used to doing
nothing, all right, and I thinkonce you've got used to doing
nothing, you're already going tobe 80% of the way there.
Speaker 1 (55:08):
Yeah, no, 100%.
I totally agree with all ofthat.
The only thing I would say isjust because this is a global
audience, apply good commonsense.
Don't be going into themountains with not the right
gear no phones, no, nothing.
The audience are mostlyintelligent, but for that 1%
here they're like I told me togo to the mountain with no phone
.
That is not what we're saying.
(55:30):
Apply good common sense.
Take a nice coat if you have to, some waterproof, sit in the
woods and chill out with no tech, but don't be going to the
Himalayas with no phone and nogear and things.
Oh, somebody on a podcast toldme to do that.
Speaker 2 (55:49):
No, they were not, don't do that.
Yeah, I'm assuming that abeginner would not go to the
Himalayas, although if you do,if you decide to do that, then
fair play.
Let me know if you get backalive, because that would be
great.
Speaker 1 (56:07):
Yeah, 100%, I think.
To wrap it all up, john, foranybody who is interested in
perhaps getting started inBushcraft or wants to know more
about your own content, wherecan they find you on the socials
and your website?
Speaker 2 (56:24):
Oh yeah.
So wwwwildwaybushcraftcouk forthe website.
If you go onto Facebook andjust search, we'll come up with
a Facebook page there and allthat sort of stuff.
Instagram is at WildwayBushcraft.
There's a lot of running themewith Wildway Bushcraft.
Yeah, there's also a YouTubechannel which we're in the
(56:52):
process of growing at the moment, which is Wildway Bushcraft.
So there's some videos andstuff on there and there's going
to be a bit of a series comingup soon about cooking in the
wild and stuff like that.
But just remember, what I putout on Instagram and Facebook is
all the shiny stuff.
Occasionally I'll put some reallike this is minging, but
(57:17):
everything on Instagram, everyphoto that I put up, is edited
to make it look amazing, as itcan be, Just like everyone else.
It's not particularly.
It's great for inspiration, butit's not real.
Don't judge yourself by theInstagram editing skills of
(57:39):
others.
Speaker 1 (57:39):
Yeah, that's absolutely love.
I can tell you're a really goodbloke, like being able to like.
Yeah, this is going to lookamazing, but just bear in mind
the reality.
You know, absolute top bloke,john.
Yeah, john, I want to say thankyou so much for coming back on
the podcast for a third time.
It's been amazing as always,and, with any luck, we'd love to
(58:02):
have you back on again in thefuture.
Speaker 2 (58:05):
Yeah, Johnny, it's a pleasure.
As always, mate, I love talkingto you.
It's this really cool projectwe've got going on with trying
to tap the guide people that areyounger than yourself in
through the obstacles thatyou've passed already, so I
think it's great.
I'd like you know whenever it'sclever.
I'll come back whenever youwant me.
Speaker 1 (58:26):
Oh, 100%.
I look forward to it.
All the best, John.
Speaker 2 (58:29):
Take care mate.
Speaker 1 (58:30):
Bye-bye.
There you go, folks.
That concludes today's episode.
I hope you got a lot of valueout of the content provided.
If you did, then please doconsider subscribing to the
Curious Ulsterman podcast onyour preferred streaming service
and leaving us a five-starrating and review.
That really helps the podcastgrow.
Thank you very much.
(58:50):
If you would like to follow theCurious Ulsterman on the various
social media channels to viewupcoming content, the Curious
Ulsterman is on Facebook,instagram, twitter, tiktok,
youtube and Twitch all at theCurious Ulsterman.
If you know someone who wouldbenefit from this content, then
please do share it with yourfriends and family on the
various social media channels.
(59:11):
You can also check out ourwebsite at
wwwthecuriousulstermancom, whereyou can view our full catalogue
of episodes across all theseasons.
If you would like to get intouch with the Curious Ulsterman
, then please do get in contacton the various social media
channels mentioned, or there isa voice note option on our
website.
As always, folks, I'm open tosuggestions to make this podcast
(59:35):
a better experience for you,the listener.
If you tuned in today for thefirst time, thank you very much
and I hope you got value fromthe content I provide.
If you're one of our seasonedlisteners.
Thank you so much for thecontinuous support.
I am eternally grateful.
I hope you'll join us for nextweek's episode, folks, but until
next time I wish you all thebest.
(59:55):
Bye for now.
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