Understanding and Embracing Life's Significant Shifts

Ever find yourself wondering how major life events might alter your perception of the world? How experiencing the joy of a wedding or the birth of a child might cause a shift in your mindset? Join me and my good friend Rob Phipps as we set off to explore these intriguing questions. With his personal anecdotes about migrating across the United States, embracing fatherhood, and navigating other profound life transitions, Rob helps us shed light on the notion of paradigm shifts.

Throughout our dynamic discussion, we touch on the psychological aspects of these shifts, the complex relationship we have with nostalgia, and the mind's capacity to filter information. Rob offers invaluable insights into the importance of staying present during life-altering events and the role that mentors can play in guiding us through these shifts. We further delve into how breathing techniques can anchor us during uneasy moments and the role of mobile apps like the Breathe app in cultivating mindfulness.

As our conversation carries on, we discuss the power of recognizing and cherishing small, often overlooked, paradigm shifts that have significantly impacted Rob’s life. We also ponder upon how cultivating gratitude for our accomplishments can help navigate these shifts and share practical steps to manage this transformation. As we conclude, we touch upon the benefits of meditation and body awareness in preparing for paradigm shifts. This episode is a treasure trove of insights and tools for navigating life’s most transformative moments.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 2 (00:06):
Hello everyone and welcome to the Curious Ulsterman
podcast, the podcast designedto equip you with the tools and
wisdom you need to fravise anadult.
I am your host, johnny aka theCurious Ulsterman, and today I
am joined by my good friend, robVips.
Rob has come on today todiscuss the concept of a

(00:28):
paradigm shift, and this isessentially when we go through
huge mindset changes or justwhen life feels a bit surreal.
There can be big events such asweddings, your firstborn kid or
just a huge change in your ownmindset that then informs your
future decisions.
This was an outstanding episodeand I can't wait for you to

(00:51):
hear it.
But without further delay, hereis today's episode on paradigm
shifts with Rob Vips.
Hello, rob, welcome to the show.

Speaker 1 (01:01):
Finally, yeah, thanks , johnny, so glad to be here.
Yeah, like you said, finally wehad a couple of glitches, but
glad we made it happen.

Speaker 2 (01:08):
It's great.
Yeah, 100%.
I want to say.
This meeting's been in theplanning for what six, seven
months now, and there's justproblem after problem between
scheduling conflicts.
And then, I know, last time mycomputer decided to not identify
as a computer anymore, and justnow, it's a paperweight now.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

(01:28):
But yeah, man, I'm so glad tohave you on the show and I know
the audience are going to get alot of value from this episode,
because it's a very interestingtopic that I don't think I've
ever heard actually discussedand that is the concept of, like
a paradigm shift or when lifejust feels surreal.
I know in a previous episode Iwas having a chat with my

(01:50):
co-host, nathan, and I said Ijust had this feeling I wanted
to have an episode talking aboutwhen life feels surreal, those
big mindset change moments andall that kind of thing, and then
, thankfully, you messaged meout of the blue and was like I
listened to your episode and Ifeel like I can talk about that.
You know, especially with yourpodcasts, that's in the making

(02:13):
and I really am looking forwardto hearing what you have to say,
because we're part of, like,the same men's group and there's
some very interestingconversations that take place
there.
But before we get into theconcept of what a paradigm shift
is and stuff, I would love tohave you introduce yourself to

(02:34):
the audience just to get aflavour for who you are.

Speaker 1 (02:37):
Yeah, yeah, well, my name is Rob Kipps, as you can
probably see in the notes.
But yeah, I was born in NewYork in the United States.
My folks moved to a littleisland off the coast of Maine
when I was four and that kind ofplays in later in the story
with something we may talk aboutor we may not, but it was kind
of a formative experiencebecause I moved from a place

(02:58):
with a really strong accent toanother place with a strong
accent and so as a little kid,you know, you immediately stand
out.
So that was kind of a formativeexperience, kind of being, you
know, shuffled into this newcommunity.
Yeah, an interesting place togrow up.
We had to take a ferry to getover to school, so it was a very
different lifestyle and thatsort of did inform my childhood

(03:20):
a bit.
You know.
It had its great points ofbeing on this beautiful little
island and then also had itschallenges with the commuting
and, you know, being a littleseparated from your schoolmates
and stuff.
So, yeah, and then after that,after high school and everything
, I ended up actually going outto.
After about two years of workingin restaurants, I ended up
moving out to the MidwesternUnited States.

(03:41):
People say why?
And I usually just give theshort answer which is there was
this girl and so kind of a kindof a long-distance talking gone.
Well, not really.
That's not a funny thing, Ishould say, but you know.
But yeah, so and eventually weended up getting married and we
moved out to Maui, hawaii, forthe next four years.

(04:03):
Oh nice, yeah.
So that was another crazy shiftof life and something I always
dreamed of was living in thetropical environment and I fell
in love with the culture outthere and learned a lot about
myself and just a different wayto see things also be.
You know, being a racialminority was really interesting
flip, because where I grew uphere it's very much, you know a
lot the majority of folks areCaucasian or white.

(04:25):
And then moving up to Hawaii,and suddenly I was the minority
and so I got a chance to kind ofhave that flip flop experience,
which is, yeah, veryinteresting again, you know.
And then after that, yeah, thenwe had our first child, my
first daughter was born in Maui,and then we decided to move
back to Maine, back here in thenortheastern United States, to
be near family, to have thatsupport network, and it was time

(04:48):
to come home.
I was missing the four seasons,yeah, all the stuff I grew up
with.
So, yeah, that's.
That's in a nutshell, biography, I guess, without the career
shifts, all the chicken leather,yeah, but that's, that's quite
interesting.

Speaker 2 (05:03):
Something I've noticed a lot with Americans in
general, if I may generalize, isyou don't have a real fear of
moving about where opportunitiespresent themselves.
You know, with a lot of theAmericans I would chat with, you
know they do talk about, oh, Iwas born here, but now I live
here and it could be 3,000 milesaway from where they originally
grew up.

(05:23):
And it seems to be that youknow, you, you've definitely no
fear of seeking out new horizonsor planting roots in somewhere
new, which I've always admiredabout.
You know Americans in a way.
I'm not saying that Americans,this is exclusive to Americans,
but you know nine times out often.
A lot of the people I know orknow through other circles

(05:43):
generally stay in the samegeographical area.
It's.
It's if someone moves about inour neck of the woods oh, they
went off to Australia, likereally, really, it's like not,
not a bad thing, fair play.
But you know what you weresaying at the end they're
wanting to move back to you knowwatching you and you know the
support of a family network.
Totally understand, I think ifI was ever going to move to

(06:05):
America I would really like theliving man like that.
I've got a real thing for theeast coast.
You have seen the photos andI've.
I think that I would vibe verywell there.
Started like a store farm but,alas, um.
So it's interesting.
You were talking about yourlife story there and I would
definitely like to ask about youknow that that change that mind

(06:29):
, mindset change, potentiallywhen you were like four years
old and moving to somewhere new.
But to sort of help thatseamlessly come into the
conversation, I think it wouldbe first important to discuss
you know why we're having thisconversation and I think that
you know especially I'm 29,going 30 in November, I think I

(06:52):
kind of help.
I think at every birthday, andespecially the big milestone
birthdays, people cannot helpbut reflect, or when they get
married, or when they have theirfirst kid, or they secure that
promotion, join a new job, movecountry there.
Can't, you cannot help but havethese.
Life is surreal moment, is thisreally happening?
And it causes a lot ofintrospection and reflection.

(07:14):
And I think I personallyhaven't really heard this
conversation and especially, youknow, with the aim of this
podcast, supposed to beequipping young adults with the
skills and wisdom they need tothrive as adults.
I feel like you kind of.
You kind of go into your yourlate teens and your early 20s as

(07:34):
having a lot of these formative, you know, surreal experiences
and not really knowing ifeverybody else feels the same as
you do.
You know your journey is unique, but I think that a lot of us
still experience those.
Life is weird at the moment andI'm not quite sure how I should
feel about it, you know.
But I think it would be reallygood to define what you yourself

(07:59):
mean by a paradigm shift andthen we can, I think, explore
further on both your life storyand the experiences I've had as
well.

Speaker 1 (08:10):
Yeah, that's a great point.
Yeah, we should define theterms for sure.
The way I see it is, it's a bigshift in your understanding,
and I usually say myunderstanding of myself and the
world, and I think it's kind ofin that order too.
And it's, I think, what definesone you know you've had one is,
once you've kind of gonethrough that shift in
understanding, you don't see thethings the same way you did

(08:32):
before at all.
It's almost akin to climbing upto the top of a mountain peak.
From that vista you can now seethings from a completely
different angle, but you can'treally go backwards from them in
most cases.
I think it's just you suddenlyrealize that like wow, I was
totally wrong about that.
I just you know like when greatexample, when I was 16, I knew
everything and suddenly I wentto college and I remember this

(08:53):
massive shift happening where Iwas like I don't know what the
hell I'm talking about.
And I remember I wrote a letterto my dad and I said to him you
know what?
I remember you telling me whenI was 16 that there's going to
come a point where you realizethat you don't know anything and
that feeling of not knowinganything is going to multiply as
you get older, not get better.
I was like well, that's reallydark dad.

(09:14):
But he was absolutely right andI wrote him a letter to say you
know, you're right, I wasn'tknow at all, I knew absolutely
nothing, and now I'm becomingacutely aware of how little I
know.
So, yeah, that's a great one,because then you can't go back,
you know.
You suddenly know like, wow, Idon't really know and I'm just a
newbie at this, I'm trying tofigure things out.

Speaker 2 (09:32):
So yeah, yeah, 100%, and I can totally relate to that
because, you know, when I was17, I went off and joined the
maritime industry and if that isa very quick way to get humbled
, because suddenly you are, Imoved country, started a new

(09:54):
career and I met people fromevery kind of background and
nationality, and you know asmuch as I love Northern Ireland,
you know to speak frankly.
Unfortunately, there's a lot ofprejudice which I'm not going
to go into because we don't.
There's not this episode is notlong enough to detail it but
there's a lot of unnecessaryprejudice, as with there's in

(10:17):
every country.
There's always a minority whoruin things for the majority,
and there was a lot ofstereotypes and there was a lot
of perspectives that you know Iheld in my own mind that got
completely obliterated and Icouldn't help but, thankfully,
grow, because you know you haveto.
You know I was never a big.
I was never, you know, heldhate against anyone.

(10:39):
But even as a young man I stillheld certain ideas and
perspectives that, thankfully, Igrew out of, you know, and you
do, because when you grow up ina certain environment, you do
become an expert in it.
Like you, you're very, you'revery acute or astute to sorry,
that's the correct word.
You're very astute to your ownculture and the do's and the

(11:02):
don'ts, and then that's when youdo, I think, get that
comfortable.
I mean, I know it all, I knowhow my family reacts, I know
what they expect from my family,I know what they expect from my
peers and my culture.
And then suddenly, as you say,you went to college, I joined
the maritime industry and youare a very small fish in a very
big pond and it's suddenly thisand you can't go back, can you?

(11:24):
Because you know it's, onceyou've learned this information,
you can't unlearn it.
What you choose to do with it,you can ignore it, you can, you
know, play ignorant or you cangrow with it.
As you said, you ascend to thatmountaintop and you suddenly
look down with brand newperspectives and you realize not
only like how much you've grownbut perhaps how ignorant you
were as well.

(11:44):
But it's, it's interesting.
That one line which you saidreally struck a chord with me.
And you cannot go back becauseyou know I discussed a whole
episode on nostalgia and me andmy co-host went into depth about
that but how our culture has abit of a love-hate relationship
with nostalgia and I think thatI don't know about yourself.

(12:06):
What's your perspective?
It always seems that we look atthe past with rose-tinted
glasses and life was so muchsimpler before we acquired all
this knowledge and we realizedthat life, you know, life was
never simple.
It was very complicated andthings.
But what's your perspective onthat, and especially with the
overall theme of paradigm shifts?

Speaker 1 (12:29):
Yeah, well, it's interesting too, as you said,
that about nostalgia, I think.
I think we do both things atonce, which is strange.
We're not at once, but we doboth sides of that coin, so to
speak.
So we definitely, you know, getnostalgic and we forget the
harder parts, the struggles, thethings that you said
rose-colored glasses, you know,we view it through that.
But then I think, at the sametime, the human mind is so

(12:51):
strange because it has atendency to like filter out
whole segments of informationthat are super relevant.
So with nostalgia you filterout the difficult learning
experiences, the things thatkind of shaped your reality that
you live now.
But we also go back, I think,and we do it in the negative as
well.
I don't know what the oppositeof nostalgia would be, but it's
kind of.
There's that?
So we go back and we look atthe past.

(13:11):
You know, I've caught myselfdoing this.
I remember I was talking to mygirlfriend and I said I was
saying this old story, I wasrepeating this thing about my
past, you know, and inmid-sentence I was like you know
what?
I've heard myself say this lineover the last three decades and
I'm not sure in this moment ifthat's actually true.
I might just be repeating thisnarrative.

(13:32):
That's getting rooted into theneural pathways in my brain
because it's a well-warmedgroove and so I just go down
this road.
It's like an easy.
It's like you know, when thesip comes and they hold up the
cue cards, it's almost likethere's a little cue card in my
brain that says here, this ishow you feel about your dad, and
I'm like that's not even true.
So I think we selectivelyfilter the past in both

(13:54):
directions.
We filter out the meaningfulhard lessons because they're
uncomfortable, and then we alsocan filter out the positive and
look at the negative when we getinto a script about it.
So yeah, it's kind of strange.

Speaker 2 (14:07):
Yeah, it's so interesting.
You know we've talked witheverything you've just mentioned
.
You know, especially withnostalgia, that you filter out
whole bits of relevantinformation and the struggles we
went through.
And you know, I think everyperson but I risk upsetting a
few people here, but I want tosay boys in particular cannot

(14:29):
wait to grow up when we're eight, 10, 12, we cannot wait to be
adults.
And then we have that paradigmshift of now I'm an adult and
what's the one thing we want todo?
I want to go back to being akid.
I don't want to pay bills and Idon't want to.
I just want to play tag orsomething.
You know it's so strange, isn'tit, how we yearned and yearned
to be adults and then the momentwe get that, that adulthood and

(14:52):
like the initial taste offreedom, is amazing.
And then you realize with a lotof freedom comes a lot of
responsibility.
You know, if your socialcontract to your community,
you've got duties andresponsibilities to your
community and your family andyou're like man, life was so,
life as a kid was so easy.
I only had to worry about whatwas for dinner tonight.
But yeah, but just in line withthat same theme I know you

(15:18):
mentioned earlier in your inyour own personal story about
moving to Maine.
Was that correct?
When you were four years old?
Yeah, yeah, If you don't minddiscussing it, what was there a
paradigm shift there?
Or do you think it was just aformative experience for
yourself?

Speaker 1 (15:36):
Yeah, I don't know.
I don't know if there wasreally like awareness of a
paradigm shift at that point I'msure I was sort of too young.
There was.
I think it was more formativein that it sort of set up this,
this belief system.
That took me a very long timeto recognize and to start to
really examine which is being anoutsider, and that's been a

(15:58):
really powerful life theme thatI've dealt with over the years
and I didn't recognize it.
Honestly, I don't even knowwhen I recognized, but it was.
I'm 50 now and it embarrassed tosay it wasn't all that long ago
that I really started to see itwas a persistent pattern that
I've been playing with again,like that narrative that's
somebody holding up the cue cardand then you start to go, oh

(16:18):
wow, so I'm believing that I'man outsider.
Where am I like actually, youknow, maybe making that
experience come true, almostlike a self fulfilling prophecy.
So, yeah, it's more of aformative thing and that was a
big one because that theme justkept kind of repeating and
repeating.
And, yeah, as I went throughlife and you know, and I and
moving to Hawaii was another onewhere it was like there was

(16:39):
this outsider piece.
Yeah, it's interesting, it'svery interesting yeah.

Speaker 2 (16:46):
No, but that that that is so interesting, how you
put it like that, how did younotice that you were telling
this pattern to yourself?
Like what was?
How did you recognize it?
Because I feel like the youknow, as kids we are assigned
roles within our families.
Like you are the sporty one,you are the thoughtful one, you

(17:08):
are the so on, so forth, andthere's a lot of identities I
feel like that are put on us askids, which we then carry
through into adulthood.
But do you have any advice forpeople who perhaps are living in
identity that's not truly thereas I hope I'm saying this
correctly but like they've,whether they like that or not,

(17:29):
had an identity thrust upon them?
You know, for example, I don'tknow, let's say, the university
student whose parents areinsistent that they become a
doctor, so they're going to goto the finest university,
they're going to study hard, butnobody ever asked this person
what did they actually want outof life?
Maybe they don't want to be adoctor.
And it's like all thesepatterns are saying well, the
part, the pattern and theinternal dialogue I have for

(17:53):
myself is I must do this, I mustdo that.
It's like well, actually muchin the same way that you were
telling yourself oh, I'm anoutsider.
Subconsciously, a lot of peoplewill tell themselves a
narrative that's simply not true.
But how did you recognize that?
So other people can do the sameand not have to wait until

(18:13):
they're 50 to recognize this?

Speaker 1 (18:16):
Yeah, that's an excellent question, as you're
asking that, I think what cameto me was that I think the best
we can do is really get tunedinto what feels very
uncomfortable, and I don't meanit's almost.
It's difficult to give aprescription for it, because I
think it becomes a bit withdiscernment and it comes a bit
with noticing the contrastbetween things Like when you

(18:39):
know you're doing something.
Let's give a positive example.
When you know you're doingsomething that's really in
alignment with who you are,there's this effortless flow you
slip into.
Time passes really quickly.
Let's say you're doing yourfavorite sport or hobby.
Pay attention to the way thatfeels and then pay attention to
the experiences that seem to bethe polar opposite of those.
And when someone like, forexample, when a parent will say

(19:00):
to you like, oh, you knowthere's, like my mother used to
love to say, oh, there's angryRobbie, like whenever I get mad
and it was this label andironically it made me very angry
.
So it's a self-pilling policy.

Speaker 2 (19:12):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:15):
I'm not angry, damn it, you know I'm not like, yeah
so, but yeah, noticing, you know, when you, when you take on
that identity label or when youstart to go down a path, you
know that contrast between howyou feel when you're in the flow
and this really kind of likeclaustrophobic, compressed,
uncomfortable in your gut.

(19:35):
And I think it's that growing inthat discernment between the
two that can really help guideus a bit.
And you know, we know thedifference through experience.
Like there's a differencebetween excitement, butterflies
of something you should be doing.
You know, like, if you're goingto go like on this podcast,
it's like I felt like a littlebit of nervous excitement, but
it wasn't like, oh, I shouldn'tbe doing this, like that's a
completely different feeling.
So it takes a little bit ofpractice, but I think that might

(19:57):
be a good way to kind ofnavigate is just to compare
those two together and then do alittle bit of a gut check, gut
check, take a breath and justsort of check in and be like,
okay, well, my body's feelingreally, you know, strange right
now, I've got this tightness inmy chest.
Is this excitement,anticipatory feelings, or is
this like my gut telling me likethis is not what I should be
doing, or this isn't really me.

(20:18):
Yeah, that's.
I think that's what I came towith that.

Speaker 2 (20:23):
That's phenomenal and I can totally relate to that
because you know, to be totallyhonest as well, like this will
be the I want to say 58thepisode when I eventually
releases 58 episodes in.
I still get nervous withpodcasting.
Like it's weird.
It's literally just having areally nice conversation, but

(20:45):
for some reason I still get alittle nervous.
But it's exactly as you said itis.
It's an excited nervous, it'snot a wow.
I feel I feel in danger here.
I really, really feeluncomfortable and you know you
always do get that high afternatural high after podcasting,
because you go, man, that wassuch a great conversation.

(21:06):
I feel uplifted.
You know I'm leaving the, I'mleaving this smarter than when I
started.
You know it's, it's such afantastic feeling.
But I think we have all beenthere, haven't we?
Where we're, we're doingsomething, whether we because we
chose to do it or it sort offorced upon us a little bit,
either by you know society or orbearing parents or something,

(21:27):
and it's like, yeah, I'm, I'mreally not comfortable with this
and I guess it's real mentaldrain and physical drain as well
.
I think this is where it'simportant, very important to
have people you can trust tobounce ideas off and to help
help you reflect like a goodmentor or coach.
We did do an episode on that,me and my co-host, nathan, so do

(21:52):
check that out.
But yeah, it's.
That was such a good answerbecause it it it articulated
what I sort of felt but couldn'texpress, and I hope that it
does the same for the audienceas well.
I wonder, if it's.
If it's, I don't want to riskthe sound of repeating, but how

(22:14):
do you?
You done that, you've done thehard work and recognized that
inner dialogue.
That was false.
But how do you recognize whenyou're going through a paradigm
shift?
Because what I'm wondering isis how many paradigm shifts do
we have?
Is it four or five?
Is it you know your, your firstchildhood sweetheart?
Is it you're going to college?

(22:36):
Is it your wedding?
Is all these big life events oris it, could, could it be a
daily or a weekly thing when youreceive new information that
challenges your whole belief andmindset?
So you know, how do werecognize or going through a
paradigm shift and, in youropinion, like do you think this
these are big paradigm shifts ordo you think we go through a
paradigm shift constantly?

Speaker 1 (22:58):
Yeah, that's a good question.
I don't know if you cannecessarily recognize it in the
moment.
I think in my experience ofthem they typically happen at
points either like duringsomething really intense, or
just afterwards.
So you know, that might be amoment where we could kind of,
you know, if you're lucky enoughto say, well, maybe that's the

(23:19):
pattern.
So if, when things get super,super intense or you know it's
like, say, with a relationshipthat's just blowing up or
something really, really intense, you know it's, it's a tall
order, but to be able to getpresent and just be like, okay,
well, this is another one ofthose crazy intense experiences.
You know, can I stay presentwith the rushing emotions and
the rushing thoughts and justkind of stay a little bit alert

(23:42):
for some insights that mightcome?
You know some patterns thatmight get revealed, because I
think I had one of those in arelationship situation at one
point and it hit me like a tonof bricks and it was very
humbling and it was embarrassing.
It was all those feelings atonce and I realized, like you
know what, here I am again inthe same situation.
These two women couldn't bemore different, but this exact

(24:03):
scenario.
What's the common denominatorit's me, it's me.
And that was a.
That was a paradigm shift thatwas like and that pattern
actually was seen through prettyquickly after that, because
once that pattern was revealedto be about me and not them, it
cut the cord to that idea that,oh, if I just find the perfect
woman who doesn't isn't like her, it's like no man you're.

(24:26):
You're jumping through theserelationships and you're
bringing your garbage with youand that's the stuff that is
actually causing the suffering.
It's not about them, because Ijust happen to have that insight
.
And again, it was contrast,which is a big theme with me,
when, when it comes to innerlearning, it's usually about,
you know, noticing the contrastbetween things.
It was that contrast betweenthe two people who couldn't have
been more different was whatshowed, which showed up, but

(24:48):
again, it was right after a veryintense experience and they
often are in my, in myexperience, positive or negative
could be super positiveexperience too can cause you to
have sort of that insight.
It might be that might be a wayto kind of clue it and say,
well, you know, this is a superintense thing, and then just
sort of be, be sort of open andaware that you may, you know, be

(25:09):
the recipient of some somegrace for lack of a better word,
because I feel like that's kindof what it it almost is.
There's one teacher that Ireally like.
He's an American teacher in theAdyashanti and he talks about
descending grace and he's noteven really making it about, you
know, a God to person kind ofthing.
It's almost like his idea isthat there's always this sort of

(25:29):
flow of intuition, of gracecoming down, and it's whether or
not you're open to it thatdictates whether or not you'll
actually receive and understandit.
So that just gets me thinkingabout, like, maybe it's just the
case of when we're open andthese, these pivotal moments.
Maybe it's just the case of,like you know, we're contracted
into our mental tight focus.
Instead of the 30,000 foot view, we're kind of laser focused.

(25:51):
And when you're laser focusedyour peripheral vision closes
down and our insights andintuitions are limited.
And then when we have anopening, which happens
oftentimes after a reallyintense experience, that's when
perhaps we're just open toreceiving.
What was always coming down onus is this sort of the wisdom
and intuition.
You can look at it as comingfrom the inside or coming from
the outside.
I don't think it really matters.

Speaker 2 (26:11):
But yeah, that's, that is incredible, Like I
absolutely love that answer.
You know, I want to say that'spossibly one of the best answers
I've ever heard on a podcast,but that's so enlightening
actually it really is.
And I love that idea that youjust said about descending grace
, your grievous, giving yourselfsome grace, because I feel like

(26:34):
it's quite natural to be quitehard on yourself.
You know, you're always yourown worst critic.
You know, a fantastic piece ofadvice I was offered was you
know, when you're going throughsomething really intense, sort
of, take yourself out of thesituation.
And if your best friend isgoing through the same situation
, what would you say to them?
Because it's so easy tocriticise yourself, but if, like

(26:54):
your best friend, who you lovethe best, was going through the
same thing, you wouldn'tcriticise him.
You would give them, you know,a hug or you would say look,
it's not, yes, that's not,that's not the ignorant here.
This is a serious situationwith serious emotions and
serious consequences, buthowever, you know, don't beat
yourself up about it, becausethat's not going to help the

(27:15):
situation in any regard.
So giving yourself that grace Ithink is very key.
But why also love what you justsaid was being present and you
know, I feel like it's in anincredibly intense emotional
state, whatever circumstancethat may be.
It's so easy to for lack of abetter description like pinball

(27:41):
off the sides between one sideis the past and the next side is
the future.
And you're thinking to yourselfoh well, my bad habits or I'm
so screwed up from my past, Ikeep making these mistakes and
I'm leading me to this emotionaldistress I'm in right now.
And then the emotional distressyou're in right now.
You're thinking, oh, theconsequences of the future,
what's this going to bring?

(28:01):
What?
Oh, and then it's going to makeme even more distressed.
But I love what you just saidabout being present and you know
, another word I would have forbeing present is being grounded
in the moment.
And from your experience, doyou have any advice for the
audience who you know, whateverreally intense situation are
going through emotionally or,you know, physically, whatever?

(28:24):
Do you have any tips from whatyou use to ground yourself in
the moment?

Speaker 1 (28:30):
Yeah, there's a few.
I mean, it depends on thesituation what I use.
If I'm really wound up and Ican't seem to get my just even
get to any sort of groundedness,I'll use breathing techniques.
There's an app called Breathethat I really love.
It's super simple and it hasdifferent ones like box
breathing, four, seven, eight,breathing continuity.
And the great thing is it'stotally bare bones and you can

(28:53):
just grab the app, you can hitstart and it'll give you a
visual that gets larger as youinhale and gets smaller.
It has a sound.
It's so basic and there's.
You don't have to mess aroundwith 10 million meditations to
do.
It's like, oh, I'm having sortof a thing.
And then, once you get used todoing the box breathing, for
example, in those real crisismoments, you can just drop into
that breathing, do the breathinglong enough so that you can get

(29:15):
back to at least a place whereyou can say, okay, my heart
rate's back down.
Now I can, now I feel morepresent and I think that gives
you a chance to, you know, see alittle bit from a detached kind
of higher perspective and youdon't have to be, like you said,
pinballing between past andfuture.
I think you're dead on too.
Because that is what happens.
You go into the past and thenyou then you forecast into the

(29:37):
future.
You say you know, clearly I'mgoing to do the same thing again
.
I'm so screwed, oh my God.

Speaker 2 (29:43):
Yeah yeah.
Yeah, I was.
Oh no, no, no, no, I'll notenter.
This is the best bit about Zoomis being able to chat with
yourself thousands of miles away.
And then the worst bit isthere's always like a second
delay, two seconds delay.
But no, I'll not interrupt.
I'd love to hear what you wouldhave to say, and then I've got
a couple of questions.

Speaker 1 (30:02):
Yeah, yeah, I wanted to piggyback off the great
observation that you made aboutyou know, if you're chatting
with a best friend, you wouldn't.
You wouldn't go to that place.
You'd kind of, yeah, you'd stepback and you'd be like, yeah,
you know, this is really intense, but let's look at the other
side of that and not beat up onthem.
But I think another part ofthat too that I realized at one
point and I've said to a lot ofpeople my kids and my friends,

(30:24):
clients, et cetera and otherguys is that you know you
wouldn't look back on yourfour-year-old self and say, you
know who didn't know how to tietheir shoes, and you know, if
you could watch that video orlike, let's see if you could
interact with that four-year-oldself and they're having trouble
, you wouldn't go up to that kidand be like you, idiot, what's
the matter with you?
Are you a moron?
What's the matter?

(30:44):
You never do that.
You would do that, hopefully,to any child.
But that's exactly like here'sthe phrase that I love that
popped in one day.
It was like if I knew better, Iwould have done better.
That's literally always thecase.
You cannot operate from a higherlevel of wisdom and
understanding you have in thissecond right now, and it doesn't
.
This is the flip side.

(31:05):
You have to be careful withparadigm shifts, because it's
very easy to let the ego or themind take the paradigm shift and
then to go back and viciouslyjudge that previous version of
yourself.
You did not have the wisdom andso you know that child example
is a great one or the bestfriend example is equally good,
because that will force you topull yourself up and out of that

(31:30):
critical mind place that wantsto go in and kick that person
when they're down.
It's like it literally isn'tpossible for you to have got
note in the past and this issomething that came up recently
where I was having a discussionin the men's group about regret
and this came up and I made thispoint, the same one I made to
you guys is that you just can'tgo back and judge that prior

(31:52):
level of understanding you had.
It doesn't make any sense.
It's just the same as goingback to the child and telling
them that they're an idiotbecause they can't tie their
shoes.
It's not that we don't go andapologize if you wrong someone
from that level of understanding.
Of course you go back, maybeeven with a higher level of
understanding and say, gosh, youknow, I'm so sorry I did that,
I know I hurt you or you takewhatever responsibility that
needs to be taken.

(32:13):
But that's very different thanthe self-flagellation that we
can fall into when we go back inour minds later and do the AR,
do the after-action review andlike, start kicking ourselves
like that.

Speaker 2 (32:27):
Yeah, 100%.
That was so well said and theonly thing I was going to say
was I'm a big fan of thebreathing techniques as well you
were describing earlier forgrounding yourself.
Big fan of box breathing, bigfan of the Wim Hof method as
well, absolutely fantastic.
The Headspace app I've usedthat for gosh six years now and

(32:48):
it's been so good because therehas been moments where it's been
really intense in work or lifein general.
And having now learned that Idon't even need the app, I just
know what I need to do and justtake two minutes to breathe and
that stops any, in the moment,highly emotional, bad decisions

(33:11):
I've often found I'll have amuch more grounded and calm mind
and I love what you said aboutyou.
Can't judge the past you withyour current wisdom.
It's like that old analogy ofto be old and wise, you must
first be young and foolish, andyou know it's.
It's such an interesting thing,a bit of an off the cuff

(33:35):
question, but you know, foranybody who is dealing with
regret I know you somewhatanswered it with like, you can't
judge previous you by modern,more wise you, but off the cuff.
Do you have any advice forpeople who are dealing with
regrets, because I thinkeveryone will have regrets.

(33:57):
I think it's just a case ofgoing to your grave with the
least amount possible.
Do you, off the cuff, have anyadvice for people who who do
have regrets and are maybestruggling with them?

Speaker 1 (34:09):
Yeah, I suppose that's a tough one and you're
right, a lot of really reallycommon theme that people
struggle with.
I guess the best, the best casescenario, is to see that there
there has to be.
You have to almost put a littlebit of a limit on what you're
doing.
So in other words, that thereason for examining where to
grant is to is to take a lessonfrom it to prevent you from
repeating something like that inthe future, and to maybe set

(34:33):
that boundary with yourself andmaybe even write them on a piece
of paper like what are thelessons I can take to prevent
this?
And then using that as aspringboard to go forward and
hopefully not make the samemistake.
But it's interesting if you canget very quickly into again
it's that same pattern.
I shouldn't have done that.
I should have known better.
That means I'm this kind ofperson and I guess you know I

(34:55):
would just go back to that sameadvice about you know, you just
have to recognize that you can'tjudge that old version.
I think that's really the.

Speaker 2 (35:03):
The two boundaries of that is yeah, I think that's
that I had something I'dprobably give yourself and give
and give, and probably that thatflows in nicely then with what
you said previous about givingyourself grace.
Because I think once you affordyourself the grace to go, okay,
I messed up, what am I going todo about it, instead of just
constantly going over right, Ifeel bad, I feel bad.

(35:25):
I feel bad, okay, fair enough,feel it, own it and then right,
how am I going to make thisright?
Or you know what can I do?
Taking personal responsibilityfor myself, going forward to
make sure this doesn't happenagain.
And you know, I think that it'simpossible to have this human
experience without having someform of regret or without having

(35:45):
wronged someone, you know.
But I think it's part of thatgrowth into being good man or
good woman that you recognizewhere, where you've gone wrong,
learning how not to do it againand then proceeding forward with
the new people you meet, takingthe lessons learned.
And you know that paradigmshift of you know, I think it's,

(36:06):
I think with especially strongregrets, I think it's when you
internalize and recognize thatyou didn't live up to your core
values and the you know you,there's that integrity gap
that's often that that phrase isoften used within.
You know our sort of circlesand you recognize that there's
the person you are, who you know, who you know, who you are in

(36:28):
your core values and that theact you just done does not line
up.
And that feels awful, it feelstruly awful.
But then you again, as you say,extending yourself, that grace,
ground yourself right.
Okay, how am I going to makethis right?
And if the other person wantsnothing to do with you, that
you've wronged, well that's.
There's nothing you can doabout it.

(36:49):
You've got to respect that.
But how are you going to bebetter for the next person you
encounter?
You know so, again, that'sanother paradigm shift.
But I'm not sure if we alreadyanswered this question, because
it's been such a greatconversation, my mind's been
going everywhere.
But in your opinion, do youthink we have only a handful of

(37:10):
these like as a paradigm shift,a life changing what you know
three or four times in your life?
Or do you reckon we can have aparadigm shift almost daily,
weekly, monthly, depending onwhat new information we get?

Speaker 1 (37:24):
Yeah, no, thank you for going back to that.
I think I don't think there's alimit on it.
Honestly, I think you knowthere's probably some massive
ones that are maybe a handful ina lifetime that we really you
know that, just radical changesof who we are and how we behave,
but yeah, there's little ones.
I mean, I think, yeah, anytimethere's that change in
understanding about somethingand maybe we, maybe we just

(37:45):
blast right past a lot of themand kind of like, yeah, okay,
and now we move on.
But sometimes you get them inretrospect, you think back and
go, oh, you know, wow, that'sinteresting.
I don't have that happen whereI suddenly realized someone
would say something and I go, oh, that would have triggered me
like two years ago and I feltnothing and that was maybe a
paradigm shift that I walkedright past and it wasn't even

(38:05):
noticed until the laterexperience comes.
But it was pretty little, itwasn't even a major thing, but
yeah, so I think it's a greatquestion.
And again, maybe, yeah, justbeing kind of and that's, you
know, that's a great, that's agreat leads to a great point, I
think, is the other side oftaking an after action review or
post mortem on something isthat you know part of that is
what did I do?

(38:25):
Well, and I think that might be, you know, as like a gratitude
practice.
That's a great time to likereally take stock and pat
yourself on the back and whenthose moments happen, don't just
gloss over them but say, likeyou know, that's pretty cool.
Like I don't, I don't believethat anymore, like I don't.
Like you said, you know, goinginto the maritime, you know, you
, you had some, some prejudices,perhaps you know, but the fact

(38:49):
that you shed those in the lightof new experience, like that's
a huge thing and you think abouthow it's colored your
interactions with, with peoplegoing forward the rest of your
life, you know, and that'sthat's not a small thing.
So I think we should also, youknow, grab onto those as as,
like a, as David Goggins say,put that in the cookie jar.
You know that, because thatexpression where you, when
you're having a tough time, youdon't believe in yourself, like

(39:12):
those experiences, we kind ofkeep in that mental cookie jar.
But like you know what, I didsome awesome stuff back then,
like and I have a tendency to dothat where I move very quickly
past an accomplishment and justkind of like yeah, what's next?
And I think that's why DavidGoggins to be perfectly honest,
it kind of he kind of irritatedme a little bit when I read his
book, because he has a tendencyto kind of do that even though

(39:33):
he's cookie d'arthing and I sohe does.
He wins this like 200 mileextreme race in the desert and
like two minutes later he's likeyeah, whatever, let's just race
through the desert like with nowater for like 200 miles, you
know.
But then I think it probablypushes my buttons because I have
that tendency, you know.
It's like oh, that irritatesyou because you do that man.

Speaker 2 (39:56):
Yeah, definitely, I can totally relate, but it's
it's.
It's so true, isn't it, that wedon't.
We look at like whatachievements we have and we just
brush past them and like Ireally like that concept of the
cookie jar, because you know,I'm in five seasons of this
podcast soon to be season sixand I still sometimes go, my God

(40:21):
, this is garbage, why isanybody listening to this?
You know, I have that doubt, Ihave that oh, I wish I wouldn't
communicate this way, like if Iwould listen to especially my
earlier episodes in the podcastand be like, oh, I say I'm a lot
or I have some really badcommunication techniques, and
it's like, yeah, all this sat onthe other and you know you

(40:43):
really judge yourself badly andthen you think, hold on a second
.
Two years ago I didn't have apodcast and two years ago I
didn't try stand up comedy andtwo years ago, you know, the
list of things that I'veaccomplished in two years,
without hopefully sounding toovain, has been incredible, just
because it's my own personalgrowth and things like that.
But I think that that cookiejar analogy is is fantastic.

(41:03):
I'll definitely use that,taking that forward especially,
you know, we all have days wherewe're just not on form or we
just don't feel good aboutourselves and things.
But something you did mentionI'm very familiar with it but I
don't think the audience will beis the concept of an after
action review.
So you know if you're goingthrough a power or you've gone
through a paradigm shift andyou've only just recognized it,

(41:26):
you know describe what an afteraction review is and how that is
applicable to a mindset changeor a paradigm shift.

Speaker 1 (41:35):
Good question.
I hadn't really thought of itas a formal structure with a
paradigm shift.
Yeah, what did I do well?
Or what went well?
You know, what didn't go sowell, what can I do differently
next time?
That's the main parts that Iusually jump to and I always for
me, I always have to rememberthat, speaking of cookie jar,
like what did I do well?
So, yeah, with a paradigm shift.

(41:57):
It's interesting because I thinkmaybe what we would wind up
doing in a or might be how webehaved through that shift.
Perhaps you know like, becausethere probably will be a little
bit of those sort of regret ifit was an extreme experience.
You know, say I lashed out atmy dad, for example, and yeah,

(42:17):
what did I not do well?
Well, the way I communicatedwith my dad.
What did I do well?
Well, I apologized afterwardsand I made amends for it.
What did I learn from it?
Or I do differently goingforward.
Well, next time he triggers me,I'm going to take a deep breath
from this Say, hey, dad, I gotto go outside for a second, take
a walk.
You know, just inserting thatgap can be, you know.
So maybe that's a good use ofan AR.

(42:38):
I'm not sure.

Speaker 2 (42:39):
No, that's fantastic.
That's a really good exampleand especially, it's especially
good because you're dealing withother people.
If it's something you weredealing with yourself, it's very
easy, I think, to analyze yourown actions because you know why
you did it.
But if you're dealing withother people, that's a whole
other level of complexity andyou know being able to not react
in the moment in a bad way,excuse me, and to take that

(43:04):
moment, that grounding, asyou've talked about before, to
have a proportional response.
You know, I think that's reallygood.
I've always really loved thequote and again I've heard it
within our circles.
You know, boys react, menrespond, and that really
challenged me the first time Iheard it, because I sort of

(43:24):
looked back, you know, at my ownparadigm shifts, especially as
I grew in my 20s.
I was like how many times did Ireact in the moment and it had
long standing consequencesafterwards, whereas you know,
there's been times, especiallyin the last four years, where
I've applied that principle asmuch as I can.
And you recognize that thecontrast between you know, not

(43:49):
only are you taking morecredible, you're also your
response is, you know, usuallydignified, it's usually
proportional, it's usuallymeasured, you know it's it
creates and also, if you'redealing with another person, it
can give the, it can give basicrespect because you know if
you're you react badly andyou're getting in people's faces

(44:11):
and calling names and sayingthings, it's only going to
escalate the situation, as itwere.
So if you have a measuredresponse you know, especially in
a very emotionally intense, youknow situation, that's a
potential paradigm shift, a lifechanging event.
You know it would it can makeall the difference to have a
response rather than a reaction.

Speaker 1 (44:32):
Yeah, that's a great point and you know, as you said,
that last part too, it made methink like maybe that's also
something that determineswhether an intense experience is
able to transform into aparadigm shift versus it just
being.
It's always going to be a lesson, but maybe you know, like,
let's say, you get hyperreactive, we take the path you
describe, you get in somebody'sface, you scream at them, you're
going to deal with this, thishuge backlash of that integrity

(44:56):
gap, you know, and you're goingto get very, very, you know,
potentially down on yourself andmaybe, if you're lucky, that's
going to lead to a shift.
But maybe that's one of thosemoments where the best lesson
you're going to get is just inthe contrast of like, oh God,
that felt terrible and yourafter action review can help you
through that.
But it also might be as I'mthinking out loud it might also
be the difference betweenmoments that become, you know, a

(45:19):
significant paradigm shiftright then, versus ones that
take a lot longer, after you'vekind of moved through all those
turbulent emotions you justchurned up by reacting versus
responding.

Speaker 2 (45:31):
Yeah, no, 100%.
I think that it's such a shamebecause you know, especially
when you're in your late teens,early 20s, and your brain hasn't
quite formed it's full growthand full maturity.
You know it's so easy to react.
You know, especially dependingon the environment you were

(45:52):
brought in, it's so easy, unlesssomeone is there to stop you
like a mentor or coach, tooverreact to a situation and to
go very badly and haveconsequences not just for
yourself but for other people.
And it seems to be only as you.
It seems to be a right ofpassage that you have to go

(46:12):
through these hard lessons,especially as a bloke.
Not discounting women'sexperiences at all, I'm just.
I'm speaking as an expert onbeing a bloke and the various
mistakes I've made and regretsI've had.
You know, in the past it's likeit's so easy to mess up, it's
so easy to just do what feelsgood in the moment and then

(46:35):
afterwards they're like, oh damn, when you know when the
temperature, the temperature hasgone and you're out of that
somewhat threatening situationor embarrassing situation to go,
ah, that was, that was a badmove, that was, that was not a
good call, but it seems to be.
You have to go through thoselessons to then learn that a
response is a far moreappropriate way to go about it

(46:57):
than a reaction.
But yeah, I don't know if it'sbeen the same for yourself.

Speaker 1 (47:01):
Yeah, well, that's the double-edged sword I think
too of.
You know, I think the the wholetheme of the podcast that I, as
I understand it, you know, iskind of giving these, these gems
, to people that are younger andcoming up, and with the hope
that they, they obviously canuse them as, as guideposts to
navigate better and have alittle bit more of a smoother
experience than maybe we did.
And yet there's the other sideof the coin.

(47:23):
That, that's true, like youjust said, is that, yeah, you
know what, though, like you'realso going to step in it, you're
also going to put your foot inyour mouth, you're going to say
something horrible to someoneand just feel the burn of regret
, you know, and that and that'sall.
That's all great life lessons,you know.
The key is, again, is to go backto that, that self forgiveness,
that grace, that.

(47:43):
You know, what did I learn fromit?
You know, make amends, becausesometimes that's crucial so that
you can set it down.
But you know, sometimes youdon't somebody who passed away
that's another point with regretis that you have to find a way
to, to realize that you don'tknow a how that person actually
took that and what lessons theylearned and what paradigm shifts
they may have taken from youroutburst that seemingly negative

(48:06):
.
We all have had the experience,I think, of someone lashing out
at us and yet you go through allyour emotions and anger and
maybe you even hate them for awhile.
But there's times wheresomebody does that and I've
learned significant lessons fromthose, those, those outbursts.
And they don't know that.
So they go away with a snapshotof oh, I hurt Rob's feelings
and I did this to him, but it'salmost like in their mind, your

(48:27):
evolution stops with the eventand we do that with our people
that we've offended and hurt,but we don't give them the
credit of realizing they're anevolving being as well.
So it's like you don't know andit's not your responsibility
really, beyond making amends, tothink you can understand what
impact that may have had, likeyou could actually positively
change the course of someone'slife, paradoxically, by being a

(48:49):
complete ass to them.
Yeah, that's the bad bitkidding, going around doing that
.
Look, I'm helping people screwyou, you know.

Speaker 2 (48:55):
But yeah, it's a I hope I'm saying this right it's
that concept of tough love,isn't it?
You know saying, you know, I, I, that's.
This is where I need to improvepersonally, just as a
self-assessment on a characterthing I, I would say it's a
strength that I see the nuancein most situations, but

(49:16):
sometimes I need to just applyit more and say it is what it is
and be have that, draw the linetough.
No, you, you made a bad call.
Like, I can give you a hug, Ican, you know, give you support,
but you made a really bad calland I'm calling you out on it.
You know, that's something Ineed to get better at.
I have done it in the past, butI don't think I do it often

(49:37):
enough.
I, I, I was so powerful whatyou just said there and it's so
true.
I've just, it's weird how youkeep saying things I feel but
can't articulate and you just,you know, say it.
You're like, yes, that's what Iwas feeling.
Finally, someone said it.

Speaker 1 (49:51):
That's great.
Yeah, I love when that happenstoo.
That happens to me all the time, and somebody will be like, yes
, that's the thing I can't thinkof that.

Speaker 2 (49:59):
The words.
The words aren't materializing,but yeah, that's fantastic.
The only well, couple of lastquestions for you before we wrap
up.
So, given everything we'vediscussed, to summarize, then,
when someone is going through aparadigm shift, what is like,

(50:20):
say, actionable steps they cantake?
They recognize, okay, this ispotentially a life changing
moment?
I'm not quite.
Life feels strange.
I'm not sure how to feel aboutthis.
It could be positive andnegative, but you know what?
What do you do when you'regoing through a paradigm shift?

Speaker 1 (50:37):
I think the thing that's helped me the most and I
don't know if this is going tobe a applicable or necessarily
helpful to everybody, but maybethe concept would be is that
some of the spiritual work thatI did in the past really helped
me see that the thoughts thatare coming up in my mind are not
synonymous with what I am, thatthey're just things that kind

(50:58):
of come through.
Like I love the analogy of theblue sky and the clouds.
You know that the blue sky iswhat we are and the clouds just
pass through and they'reconstantly morphing and changing
.
We're always there to see themcome and see them go and
actually getting into someteachings.
There's one teacher I'll throwout there who's actually from
England, he's Andrew Pertzpira,who's pretty fantastic in

(51:18):
general in laser clarity, very,very intelligent, and he does a
great job of helping peopleexperientially play with this
idea of watching strong emotionscome up without trying to make
them go away, and getting morecontrast and experience and
understanding that the thoughtswe experience are simply just
sort of energy passing through.
And so I think a long-windedway of getting back to your

(51:42):
question is that in the momentswhere we're in a paradigm shift
or pre-paradigm shift where it'svery intense and things are
happening.
I think sometimes the best wecan do is to simply just
remember that, and that iseasier to do if you've done a
bit of practicing when thingsaren't crazy.
So if you've played a little bitwith some of these teachings
and some of these practices thatyou know, even if you're just

(52:02):
meditating and you realize thepoint of meditation is not to
control your mind, it's simplyto be with whatever is coming up
and let it be there.
And that simple technique ofjust meditating, with the idea
that you're not trying to changeanything, you're trying to
notice what's already here andjust let everything be exactly
as it is.
And then, when you hit a realturbulent patch with a

(52:23):
pre-paradigm shift kind ofmoment, just that awareness and
that experience that you've hadin little moments of going, you
know, yeah, that time when I hadthat thought about my
background, my parents, mybrother, I just let that kind of
pass through and then I wasactually fine at the other end
of it.
That might be a good way to goabout it.

(52:44):
I mean, that's one of thethings I definitely recommend to
people when they ask me aboutwhat I've done in the past and
how I've gotten to where I amwith.
Whatever level of understandingI have is those practices were
huge.
Just that's a big paradigmshift, actually massive.
To know that your thoughts areliterally not synonymous with
who you are, that's a big one.

Speaker 2 (53:05):
That's incredible.
That's really powerful.
And correct me if I'm wrong,but I think, judging from what
you just said, a good analogymight be that paradigm shifts
are inevitable.
But in the same way, you know,a football team doesn't turn up
to the Super Bowl having done nopractice Practice is key before
the big game or you knowthere's no point.

(53:27):
You know this big event in yourlife coming up and you are not
adequately prepared physicallyor mentally.
You know so when game dayarrives, you know, do the hard
work, do the prep, because youknow it's coming.
It's just a case of how readyyou are You're going to be when
that day arrives.

Speaker 1 (53:45):
Yeah, no, I think that's totally spot on.
Yeah, that's what I love.
The benefit of that kind ofmeditation is just simply that,
because it's like a dailyexperience of a kind of a
control not controlled, but amore mellow experience of and
you know, the good thing is,you're inevitably going to have
a day where you don't want tomeditate.
You plop yourself down and yourmind is swirling, and the

(54:07):
practice of letting it swirl andrealizing that you're still
okay after that and everything'spretty, and you actually start
to notice, hey, not only am Iokay, but I'm actually like,
really okay and like that stuffdidn't actually stick with me,
whereas in the past, maybe youspun for three days based on
some thought you had, and thenyou suddenly know I only, I only
dwell on that for like sixhours instead of three days and

(54:30):
to pat yourself on the back.
I think one thing I tell myclients I'm a massage therapist
but one thing I tell my clientsis that every time you notice
you're hunching your shouldersup, don't berate yourself.
Congratulate yourself, becauseyou're growing body awareness.
So every time you have younotice that you're having a
thought come up, even if it'swhen you'd rather not think, you
know, congratulate yourself andsay well, wow, I noticed that

(54:53):
my awareness is growing, myawareness of thoughts, instead
of being so tightly wound up inour thoughts we think it is us
like.
That discernment and thatcontrast, that awareness growing
, is a huge deal.
So to flip that script, that'sanother paradigm shift, to
realize that you know, theawareness of it is really an
accomplishment instead of afailure.

Speaker 2 (55:15):
That's amazing.
There's really given me foodfor thought as well, this whole
episode.
I'm going to have to really sitand meditate on everything
you've said and all theconversations we've had, because
it's been really enlightening.
I've really enjoyed thisconversation and it's definitely
, I think, given me a littlemini-paradigm shift.

(55:35):
I'm not going to lie, but towrap everything up, a question I
have for every single guest iswhat's a question you've never
been asked?

Speaker 1 (55:49):
You know, it's actually kind of what we talked
about, which is interestingbecause I've heard other people
then ask what would you tellyour younger self or what would
you wish people had told you, sothat was the kind of things.
That that's the general type ofquestion that I've never been
directly asked myself, but I'veheard other people then ask it
and I've asked myself becauseI've heard them ask it but I

(56:10):
don't think I don't know if I'veever been directly asked that
that kind of question directly.
So yeah, and I know we didn'thit that like on the nose as far
as that direct question, but Ithink that's kind of what I've
been doing as we've been goingthrough this process of like
going back to some of my earlierexperiences and as I'm thinking
about your audience and whatcan I say to them that might be

(56:30):
a little bit of a leg up so theydon't make the same mistake I
did.

Speaker 2 (56:35):
Yeah, 100%.
I mean just to be sure of justtrying to think of being
respectful of your time.
Do you feel like sharing whatyou would share with your
younger self, or is that privateto Rob?

Speaker 1 (56:50):
No, not at all.
Yeah, I actually I jotted downa couple notes around that idea
as I was thinking about thisupcoming conversation and I
think you know one of the thingsspeaking of my pattern is that
I would say everyone feels likethey're the only one who's an
outsider, who's awkward andwho's weird, like everybody.
And I would also say, like,don't look at the adults that

(57:13):
are older than you and assumethat they have it all together,
because you learn as you startmeeting people of all different
age brackets and all differentbackgrounds and you really get
into the nitty grittyconversations like this and you
realize, hey, everybody,everybody is kind of clueless
and you're all bubbling around.
And yeah, you meet people likeeven the great spiritual

(57:33):
teachers, but the good ones willadmit to you like, oh yeah, you
know, like I still every oncein a while, man, I just step in
it and I say something stupid orwhatever.
So let's see what is the otherone I wrote down here.
So yeah, here's another one Oneof my friends from the men's
group told me which has hit meso hard.
He's like, look man,everybody's walking around

(57:56):
thinking about their own stuff,their own lives, their own
thoughts.
It's like they're really notthat focused on you.
So when you get that imaginedaudience, you know like when
you're a teenager you ever hearthe term imagine audience
syndrome.
You know, like when you're 13and your mom says something to
you, you're like, oh my God, momdon't say that.
Oh my God, nobody really cares.

(58:18):
Nobody cares, nobody's reallywatching this.
And they're not all justhyperscrutinizing.
They're so wrapped up in theirown dramas that just relax
yourself.
That's what I would tell Billy.
I'm gonna need this door, forsure.

Speaker 2 (58:31):
Oh man, that was so well said.
Like you could hear teenagerseverywhere going no, no way,
Surely not.

Speaker 1 (58:40):
No, I know they're watching me.

Speaker 2 (58:46):
Oh, fantastic.
Well, I'm sure everybody willget a lot of benefit from that
and I just want to say thank youso much for coming on the show.
This has been an incredibleconversation and you're welcome
back on the show anytime,because I'm sure there's.
I could chat all day about this,so I can't see any reason why

(59:06):
we can't have you on the showagain to discuss this kind of
thing.
You know, especially as youknow your upcoming projects take
off and you know various otherthings that you're focusing on.
I'd love to have you back onthe show to you know, connect
people with you, know yourcontent and things like that.
But you know, once again, rob,thank you so much for coming on
the show.

Speaker 1 (59:27):
Yeah, thank you, john .
It's been a real honor, right?
You know I was thinking Ididn't say earlier but as I was
getting ready to come on theshow, I think some of my nerves
is that I was having a bit of afanboy moment.
I listened to this podcast inmy car.
I was like, okay, don't thinkabout the fact that you're going
on this podcast that you listento in the car.
It's Johnny, it's just you andJohnny, it's okay.

Speaker 2 (59:45):
So it's like it's a joy, it's an honor though.

Speaker 1 (59:47):
I love this podcast.
It's one of the ones Irecommend to folks because it's
this unique combination of likethese really, you know,
wholesome like friend type chats, but they have really solid
content.
But I said, you feel likeyou're sitting with two good
friends by a fire, you knowdrinking a pint, and it's like
so it has that really like homeyfeel to it, but it's also
really solid stuff that's goingto give you something to take

(01:00:09):
away, which is a really niceblend.
So it's one of the first ones Irecommend to folks because I
just really enjoy it and it's Ilove it.
Like going from work and I Iflip an episode on and then like
, oh, it's Nathan and Johnny andit's like I feel like I'm
sitting with you guys, you knowjust around the table.

Speaker 2 (01:00:26):
Well, with any luck, if you're ever visiting the UK,
let us know and we'll definitelyhave you on in person.
That would be nice to have apoint or if we're ever in
America, we'll definitely getsomething sort of what we'll
have a beer and a live podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:00:40):
Yes, absolutely, I would love to do that.
Yeah, I'd love to come back onhere too.
I appreciate the invite, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:00:46):
No worries at all.
Once again, rob.
Thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (01:00:49):
Absolutely my pleasure.

Speaker 2 (01:00:52):
There you go, folks.
That concludes today's episode.
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(01:01:55):
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