February 21, 2024 • 30 mins
This podcast episode marks a special moment as Anika Zubair wraps up her four-year hosting journey on the Customer Success Channel podcast.
The exciting news is that we're welcoming our very own, Malin Skoglund, VP of Customer Success Americas, who will be stepping in as the new host.
Listen to the full episode now and learn more about the future of our podcast.
Podcast enquiries: sofia@planhat.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Hello everyone. I'm your host, Anika Bert , and
welcome back to the nextepisode of the Customer Success
Channel podcast, brought to youby Plan Hat , the Modern
Customer platform. This podcastis created for anyone working
in or interested in thecustomer success field. On this
podcast, we will speak toleaders in the industry about
their experiences and theirdefinitions of customer success
(00:27):
and get their advice and bestpractices on how to run a CS
organization.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Today
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Is a special episode because today is the last time
I will be hosting the CustomerSuccess Channel podcast. It has
been an amazing four years ofhosting this podcast, but all
good things must come to anend. But the good news is that
there will be a new host ofthis podcast moving forward. I
am very excited to introduceMolin Scottland , who is a
(00:56):
seasoned executive with 15years of leadership experience
in B2B SaaS. She is our guesttoday and I'm really excited to
dive into her experience andshowcase her as our next guest.
And as my last guest on thispodcast, she has worked in
sales and in customer success,leading teams ranging from 10
to over hundreds of members,managing revenue growth worth
(01:18):
tens of millions of dollarswith deep experience in various
market segments, including SMBMid-Market and Enterprise.
Mullin's leadership style isresults driven and focused on
operational excellence, proudlyborn and raised in Sweden. She
now resides in New York Citywith her husband and two
daughters, and she is going tobe our next host. So I am
(01:38):
excited to dive in today'spodcast and interview my last
guest for this podcast. HiMalin , welcome to the podcast.
I'm so very excited to have youon this very special episode
today and talk to you a littlebit more. But before we jump
into our topic and get moredeep into this podcast, it
would be great for you to tellus a little bit more about who
(02:01):
you're, and let our listenersknow who it's you're.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Yes, hi Annika.
Thank you so much. I'm very,very excited to be here. My
name is Marlin , uh, but after, uh, spending the last 13
years in the US I respond tobasically anything that starts
with an MI take no offense inany mispronunciations. I'm
based in New York City and I'vespent my whole career 15 years
basically in commercial rolesin in B2B SaaS. And I started
(02:25):
as a sales rep. It wasn'tcalled anything as fancy as,
you know, account executiveback then. And then I kind of
have worked my way up fromthere. I've been in leadership
roles for a long time now. I'verun teams from, you know, five
to 10 people, up to over ahundred people responsible for,
you know , tens of millions of, of dollars of a RR . And I'm
really a true operator. I'mvery passionate about tech and
(02:45):
sas. I love sales and I love cs. Then yeah, I work at Plant
Hats , .
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Amazing. Thank you so much for giving us a brief
insight into who you're andwhat you've been up to . I love
always asking CS Leaderstrajectory into where they find
themselves today, because noone has any similar route .
Everyone has a very, veryunique route . And I also come
from a sales background, so Ilove speaking to other revenue
leaders on the podcast, but Iknow you weren't quite
(03:12):
cross-functionally as wellwithin Plan Hat . I think in
general Plan Hat being astartup and Scale Up , there's
a lot of different teams, a lotof different people, a lot of
different processes that youguys are building and doing,
and because of that you workquite cross-functionally. How
does this work currently atPlan Hat ? How do you work with
different teams? How does CSkind of mix and move between
(03:32):
the different teams at Plan Hat?
Speaker 3 (03:34):
It's such an interesting question because
this is something that we spenda lot of time at Plan Head
thinking about and and , andtalking about too, honestly,
and at plan really, you know,all functions are focused on
how to get, grow and retaincustomers in the best way. We
try not to think about CS astoo much of a department or a
function. We think thateveryone is doing cs because I
(03:56):
think sometimes, you know,putting all responsibility of
your customer and allinformation about your customer
in one department is maybesometimes, you know, the best
way to make sure that there'snot too much cross-functional
ownership of the customer orthat the organization is truly
customer focused . And I thinkif you wanna be customer
focused , which you know,everyone says that, that they
do, right? It's extremelyimportant to see us . And all
(04:19):
the data that you have aboutyour customers is not siloed.
It's important. I think that,you know, the whole
organization has insight intoeverything that's going on with
your customers and that theownership and you know, sadly,
sometimes that also means theblame when something goes wrong
doesn't sit squarely with theCS team. So we really like to
think of CS as, you know, morethan just a function. We think.
(04:39):
We like to think of it assomething that, you know,
everyone has responsibility forthe customer and everyone is
involved with the customer, youknow, from product to sales and
marketing, you name it.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
I love that. I also think that is a great
philosophy to have withinbusiness in general. And I
think that customer success isreally the beating heart of
every organization and everyoneshould be contributing to
making sure that heart keepsbeating in a healthy and happy
way. So yeah, I think that'sgreat that you guys use
ownership and share ownershipacross all departments. Like
(05:10):
you said, sometimes the blamecan end up with the customer
team, but really it's up toeveryone to make sure that the
customer is successful. So it'sreally awesome that you guys
are living and breathing thatphilosophy across multiple
teams, like you alreadymentioned. I think a lot of
people today, especially inthis economy , are very
concerned around how customersuccess fits into the wider org
(05:31):
, but if it should also beeither a revenue generating
function now coming from sales,and I'm thinking you also
coming from sales probablyheavily agree with this, but do
you think CS should be arevenue generating function?
Like how would you factor incustomer success metrics into
wider business metrics?
Speaker 3 (05:51):
This has been a , you know, kind of a big
discussion in cs I thinklately. And I think it really
depends , uh, right, because Ithink CS is kind of a different
thing almost at every company.
And what it needs to be, Ithink differs a lot because of
things like the product orproduct market fit stickiness,
a whole range of your busbusiness specific things. And I
(06:12):
think that that's a bit of aproblem in and of itself , uh,
that, you know , all otherdepartments or most other
departments are very clearlydefined, but CS is a little bit
new and people have done kindof different things with it in
different organizations. And Ithink that's actually what the
CS identity crisis is comingfrom because I think it, it is
very hard to say in general,okay, this is exactly how CS
(06:33):
should be done. You know, forexample, if you need a ton of,
you know, product deliverysupport, more like ProServe
type services and that's thebulk of, you know, what your CS
organization is doing for thebusiness , uh, you know, to
retain and grow customers,then, you know, maybe it should
be a COGS or whatnot. But I'm,you know, leaning more towards
what you were saying too,Annika , like with nine outta
(06:55):
10 products, probably you alsoneed someone to help your
customers stay and grow witheverything that that entails.
Stakeholder relationships,renewing and upselling
customers. And in someorganizations, you know, sales
are doing that and someorganizations that's cs, some
call account management,renewals teams, you , you name
it, right? And my thought is,is , uh, you know, pretty
aligned with yours. And again,my thought is very colored by
(07:18):
my background and, and how I'verun my CS organizations and
maybe, you know, me as a personwho loves sales as well, but I
think that CS should own, youknow , all post sales revenue.
I think it becomes very aimlessif the work that CS does is to
ensure that the customer staysand grows, but they don't have
much or any at all reallyinsight into what that number
even is. I also don't like CSpeople saying that it hurts the
(07:42):
relationship to talk aboutmoney or renewals or upsells or
CSMs are scared to be viewedas, you know, too commercial
because I think, you know, thisis , this is business. The
whole thing is about someonepaying money for your software.
So I'm a bit allergic to , tosome of those arguments. And to
me, similar to you, Annika ,like CS is the heroes of the
organizations. They're, they'rethe lifeblood , they're the
(08:03):
people who drive and own theNRR, which as you know, is one
of the most important metricsin SaaS. CSMs work relentlessly
to deliver business outcomes totheir customers. They keep it
real with their customers. Theycall out bs they realize it's
not about, you know, NPS orcustomers even necessarily
being happy or having nicerelationships. It's, it's about
(08:23):
monetizable customers who, whoreally stick around, right? And
I think it's about CSMs who askfor the business, and , uh, in
my mind they're by far the bestpeople to, you know, own , uh,
all the revenue as well andupsell and renew the customer.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Definitely. And I love that you said that
customer success ends up beingthe post sales revenue part of
the, and so, so rightfully so.
I think a lot of people say CSis in sales , or like you said,
Hey, I don't wanna talk money ,or it's uncomfortable talking
about revenue or any sort ofmoney with customers , but like
you said, no one's here forfree. We're , we're not working
(08:58):
for free. So that definitelymeans that our customers aren't
expecting our product for free.
So we do have to have thoseconversations. Now , do they
have to be the sleazy salesconversations that everyone
thinks is part of, of anupsell? No, not at all. I don't
think that's, that's anythingto do with it. I think customer
success ends up forming abridge between delivering
customer outcomes, but thenensuring that those outcomes
(09:21):
directly relate back to revenuegeneration for the business
that you're working at. And Ithink that as long as customer
success is around those, thetwo hats that you're always
gonna have to wear, you'regonna have to make sure your
customers are receiving valueand outcomes of using your
software. But ultimately itdoes come down to the bottom
line of revenue for yourbusiness and the business
(09:42):
that's paying your paycheck atthe end of the day. So I love
that you said you're allergicto people saying those things .
That has to be the funniestthing a guest has said on this
podcast yet. Um , so I lovehearing that, but sometimes
it's not easy. Tying it back tobusiness metrics, like you
said, NRR seems to be a northstar metric. It seems to be the
understood SaaS metric that alot of leaders look to go
(10:03):
towards, but sometimes that canbe quite lagging or not a
leading indicator. What do youthink is around or the future
business metric that makessense for customer success to
really be focusing on ifrevenue is such a critical part
of customer success?
Speaker 3 (10:18):
Yeah, it's, it's a great question and I think, you
know, again, it's not one thingprobably there's a lot of, you
know, leading indicators in, ingeneral that are usually tied
to, you know, usage and, andthings like that. I think in
general what we'll see more ofin the future is, you know,
really hyperfocused, post-salesteams that are really, really
data driven . I think we willsee a lot more use of
(10:41):
technology and AI to helppeople be more efficient and
get that help in managing maybesimple tasks or maybe even, you
know, managing some, somesmaller customers. We've seen a
lot of that in the last year.
Uh, people are being moreinterested in building out a
kind of a scale model or a techtouch function or whatnot. And
I think we will also see a lotless of kind of breaking out
the revenue ownership. Uh, wewill see less , uh, you know,
(11:05):
excuse my French bs, no healthscores, you know, going around
in circles doing no one anygood. You know, I think overall
the pressure to perform fromthe past year has been a bit
good, honestly and needed forcs, because I think when, when
funding dries up, no one canafford not to impact the bottom
line anymore. And I thinkthat's a really good thing. It
pushes people not to do stuffthat, you know, doesn't have
any real impact . I also thinkthat we will see more of CS not
(11:29):
being seen as a department andmore as a , you know,
company-wide initiative. Ithink we'll see more of
everyone being invested inmaintaining and growing your
customer from the CEO productsales team. I think in the NRR
economy, not many companieswill be able to afford to silo
customer focus in , into asingle department anymore. So I
, I think that, you know,that's a shift that we'll see
(11:49):
as
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Well. Yeah, I think it's all very exciting. Change
is tough. Change is gonna benot easy, but like you said,
this last year really did notleave any room for wiggle or
error or choice. Like everyoneis being hyper-focused on the
bottom line and everyone issuper aware that retaining and
growing customers is the keyskill that you need to make
sure you have in your business.
(12:10):
And that does not mean oneperson or one department. It
means the whole business and itmeans how the business is gonna
be shaped is very dependent onhow your customers end up
seeing value from your product.
And it all ties back down torevenue or the bottom line and
how you're growing as abusiness and how your customers
are growing will ultimatelyaffect again, how you look
outwardly and, and what yourfuture projections look like
(12:33):
within business as well. Butyes, it all sounds very
exciting. Also challenging. I'mnot gonna say that that sounds
easy at all, but I think it's agood challenge. I think
customer success is always upfor a good challenge and the
future of CS is gonna be abright one, but a challenging
one. Anything more that youwould say would change ? You
mentioned a few things, butanything that you would say
would be the ultimate future ofCS if you were to have a, a
(12:56):
magic ball and look into it andsay, this is what CS is gonna
be, what would, what would yourbet be on, you
Speaker 3 (13:01):
Know, to summarize every , everything I feel like
that I've just said, but youknow, more data driven and more
using data and technology to bemore efficient and I think
revenue sitting with thepost-sales team, I think we'll
see more of and more of, youknow, everyone at the company
doing cs. I think , uh, thoseare the three themes that I
(13:21):
think and, you know, hope that, that we will see more of in
the future.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Amazing. I think in speaking of the future, I agree
with those three points, butthere's also a future for this
podcast and this episode is avery special one because we are
transitioning and this will bea new era of customer success
channel podcast. I would loveto know, and I'm sure the
listeners as well, what is nextfor the podcast and what can
(13:45):
our listeners expect movingforward?
Speaker 3 (13:47):
Yes, I think that we can expect interesting thought
provoking subjects and guests.
We will be digging deeper intodifferent businesses and open ,
uh, the pod up a little bitmore to business as a whole,
but still with a very clearfocus on customer management.
And it'll be filmed right herein New York City. The first
episode will come out in March,so yeah , stay stay tuned for
(14:08):
that. Alright , Annika, so nowthat the handover is , uh,
officially done, I think thelisteners are really interested
in, in what's next for you. Um, and having been the host for
so long, I think everyone isreally curious to know the
Annika behind the podcast alittle bit more. So, so who is
that? Who is Annika BehindBehind being a , a podcast
host? Yeah,
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Thank you so much for that. It's strange to be on
this side of the podcast of ,uh, this podcast, but as a host
for the last four years, I'vealso been a customer success
leader for the last 12 years.
And I've sat in a number ofdifferent organizations,
different SaaS startups andscale ups . I have seen from
zero to acquisition when itcomes to the revenue piece . I
(14:51):
have have been in an SDR rolebefore I was an account
manager, and so I have held anumber of different seats and
different places at withinorganizations, but it's always
been in a customer focused orcustomer success role. And
outside of the podcast, I'm aproud dog mom. I am based in
London, England, although theaccent is misleading. I think a
(15:12):
lot of people think I'm basedin the us that accent is going
isn't gonna change. I alwayssay I'm Californian, but with a
British passport now. And Ihave enjoyed doing the podcast,
but I'm so much more than thatand I'm very excited to share
that on today's episode.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
Yeah. And yeah, you you started a new Rob job
recently, didn't you ? Anikatell us , um, a little bit more
about that. Where are you nowand and and what are you doing
now since recent?
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Yeah, definitely. I have started a new role. It has
been a whole three months, butin startup world that could be
three years. But I'm currentlyhead of customer success at
Griffin, which is a banking asa service platform. And it's a
whole new space and sector forme. I have always been in B2B
SaaS. I have always beenfocused on like SaaS products
(16:00):
and working with other SAScustomers, but for me this is
the first time venturing intoworking at a bank and working
in the FinTech space. So it'sboth exciting and challenging
and tough and exhilarating allat once. And , uh, I'm fairly
new in the role, but thecompany, the team is really
amazing. And coming back towhat you said earlier, Malin
(16:22):
customer success or thecustomer is actually at the
heart of everything we do. Somuch so that our commercial
team doesn't even call itprospects. We call everyone a
customer. Um, we work in theway that our product team is on
all customer calls. Thecustomer success team actually
is part of the productorganization, so it is a , uh,
very much customer says at theheart of everything we do. And,
(16:45):
and I love being a part of thatearly build and really
structuring that and whatthat's gonna mean for the
future of Griffin.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
Wow, that's amazing.
Practicing what , uh, I ire , I preach at least
that's sounds super excitingand like a great fit for you.
So what does your team looklike there? And I, I know
you're still, you know , fairlynew. What are your , do you
have any kind of big goals for2024 or anything else that
you're, you've set out to dohere fairly ear early on in ,
in the role?
Speaker 2 (17:11):
It's super exciting.
I am first in customer successat Griffin. They wanted to
bring in a leader to make surethat they had someone that's
gonna structure what the futureof the customer journey and
customer success and the fullcustomer experience would look
like. I'm hiring , uh, thefirst CSM at the moment, so
that is also happening, whichis super exciting. But we are
(17:32):
early in our journey when itcomes to launch and, and
customers. We have only aselect few customers that we
have in a beta launch that'sgoing live in a , in a few
weeks here. So for us, we arejust very early days, early
stage startup . We are , uh, wehave very aggressive goals for
2024 and, you know, are , areon that rocket ship journey and
(17:53):
trajectory and making sure thatwe not only acquire and, and
sign the right customers, butthey see success with us for
years to come because we areactually building a product
alongside of them. So it's,it's truly exciting to be that
early stage at the moment and,and building that with the
product and wider organizationfor our customers.
Speaker 3 (18:12):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You get to really be part ofshaping something new. That
sounds so exciting and it seemslike you're looking for CSM
also, so this could be a plugif anyone is looking to , uh,
work with Annika . Good thingsto come from there. It sounds
like, and you mentioned this alittle bit, that it was a very,
you know, customer-focusedorganization, but where does cs
(18:32):
uh , you know, sit at Griffinand, and in the organization it
seems to be very, you know,cross-functional and it seems
to be a big focus for theorganization as a whole, but
anything else there?
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Yeah, definitely it's , uh, it's
cross-functionally. Uh , when Icame in, I was part of the
operations organization, but aseven in the three months I've
been there, as the companyevolves, as our product
evolves, as we grow as abusiness, it's become heavily
evident that the customerfeedback needs to be directly
in line with the productmanagers, the product
(19:04):
organization, but also how weshape and build our product
should be directly around whatour customers are giving
feedback on. So the customerteam success and support all
sit under product and that iswhat we will see for the
foreseeable because we wannabuild a product and a company
that our customers truly loveand see value from from day
(19:25):
one. And, and we as anorganization see that that is
critical and customer success,again, is at the heart of
everything we do. It's a partof the executive team, it's a
part of day to day what we arebuilding and doing every single
day. And I, I already alludedto this a little bit earlier,
but I truly love that anyonefrom the sales team to our
product team refers to everyoneas a customer, sometimes it
(19:48):
gets very confusing, buteveryone is considered a
customer. So it's, it's reallygreat that everyone is that
involved and again, everyone isso willing to jump on a
customer call or have almostlike chat on the side about a
customer issue or a customerproblem. Everyone is is very,
very bought into the fact thatif our customers are
successful, we will ultimatelybe successful. So it's really,
(20:11):
really great to be at anorganization that sees this so
early on because I have been atorganizations before where it's
only realized after things havebroken that how important
making the customer the centerof everything you do. So for
me, it's just really nice thatearly on in the journey of, of
how we're building a bank andhow we're building a product is
(20:31):
very much, it's embedded thatus delivering value for
customers from day one is justalmost like a default state
rather than a nice to have .
Speaker 3 (20:41):
Uh , that's, that's amazing. I feel like, wow ,
this is gonna be a , a , a , ahuge success it sounds like. I
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Hope so..
Speaker 3 (20:47):
Yeah, .
Exactly. Uh , no , it soundslike you're, you're doing
things right for sure. And I'mreally curious to, to ask you
something because you havespent , uh, you know, so many
years running this podcast, youknow, and talking to so many CS
professionals and what are thethings that you think most of
them agree on versus the thingsthat are maybe done differently
in different organizationsfrom, you know, your experience
(21:10):
and , and the people thatyou've been been , uh, speaking
to on the podcast?
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Yeah, I think that this is gonna be probably the
most common answer I havegotten on the podcast and in
any conversation that I've hadwith any CS professional is
that it depends, and funnilyyou just said that earlier in ,
in this very recording, and Ithink that most people that
I've ever talked to on thispodcast have always said, well,
(21:38):
it depends if , uh, you know ,we should have onboarding in 30
days or it depends if NPS isimportant or it depends if we
have revenue or if sales hasrevenue. It's just, I think the
number one thing I've heardover the years as it depends
because customer success is notcookie cutter and it's not done
(21:58):
the same at any organization.
Um, I've been at a number nowand I couldn't say that the way
I've done customer success fiveyears ago is the way I'm doing
it today. I think there'sbroadly some fundamentals, some
metrics, some things that wetrack and that we're intrigued
by or that we are are veryimportant within customer
success. But I'd have to saymost times it totally depends
(22:22):
on the maturity of yourproduct, the maturity of your
customer base, and really thematurity of your organization
and how like far along you arein your journey. Do you have
CSMs? Do you just have support?
Like all of that totallydepends. So to come back and
answer your question, ittotally depends on who you want
me to talk about. But everysingle person I've talked to
has basically told me thatcustomer success depends on X
(22:47):
or y.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
So funny just what I said too. Yeah. Since you
started the podcast, I'm reallycurious, have you seen any
shifts or have you seen any,any way that CS has kind of
changed since, since youstarted the podcast? Are people
talking about different thingsnow versus, you know, a few
years ago? Is there anythinglike that that you've could
(23:10):
reflect over? Yeah,
Speaker 2 (23:12):
I know it's been four years and I'm just like
trying to recall all thedifferent conversations I've
had over the years., Ifeel in the pandemic, we were
really, really aware of howimportant, what it was to
retain customers and it'sbetter to have a customer that
actually stays with you andgrows with you and renews
rather than, than going out tomarket and trying to acquire
(23:34):
new customers. I think beforethe pandemic there was probably
a lot more immaturity withincustomer success, meaning like
a lot of people were just, notthat we always said we were the
happiness department, but itwas more seen that, hey, the CS
team is there to make ourcustomers happy, but it wasn't
(23:55):
truly understood that customersuccess is there to drive
business outcomes for ourcustomer. And that ties back to
revenue. And I think thatthat's the most recent chapter
of customer success is I feellike previous chapters were all
about the infancy or thedevelopment of customer success
within organizations and thatorganizations fully understood
(24:16):
what the heck customer teamswere doing or , and what value
they brought within thebusiness. And then in the
pandemic, it kind ofaccelerated that timeline
because people were like, ohdang, we really have to care
about our customers because wecan't always go and spend
endless money. And, and moneydidn't , wasn't as cheap
anymore. So you had to actuallyfocus on what you had rather
(24:36):
than trying to spend all yourmoney on acquisition costs. And
then I think in the last fewyears, again, due to the, you
know, macroeconomics of theworld, fundraising what it is
and, and cash not being cheap,it's really, really doubled
down on customer success beingpart of the wider business and
ensuring that it ties back tothe bottom line as we were
(24:57):
talking about earlier. So Iwould say that for me
personally, I think I've seenthe evolution of being more of
an immature organization ortrying to figure it out and
then suddenly the organizationsstart to see value in customer
success. And now I think it'snot just the organization, it's
internally and externally thatpeople are truly trying and
understanding what, what thevalue customer success brings.
(25:19):
Yeah,
Speaker 3 (25:20):
That's, that's so, so interesting to hear I think.
And uh, you know, leaving thepast behind, what do you think
is the future? Like how do youthink CS will kind of continue
to evolve?
Speaker 2 (25:31):
I think I had this conversation just a few months
ago, I can't remember who itwas with , but I said that
customer success managers areessentially business analysts
or like business strategists.
And I think that a lot of whatcustomer success does, if you
think of, you know, bigconsulting firms and how they
have management consultantsthat go into companies and
(25:53):
really assess how they'relooking, what they're doing, et
cetera. I feel like customersuccess is in-house consulting
and you are there to be abusiness analyst. You are there
to really understand what it isthat your customer needs and
wants and the outcomes they'relooking for. And I think that
is the future of customersuccess. I think it always has
(26:16):
been there, but I think it'sfinally, as we just spoke
about, the evolution ofcustomer success has really
come to its fruition wherewe're not just seen as
happiness, we're not justupselling or cross selling , we
are driving business outcomesfor our customers that
ultimately result in revenuegrowth for our company. And I
(26:36):
think CSMs really embracing thefact that you are there to be a
business analyst, you're thereto go into your customers
almost like a representative attheir organization and showing
them not just, okay, this ishow my product does this. It's
why should you care? Whatreturn on investment is this
gonna give our business and howis it gonna help our business,
(26:58):
meaning the customer's businessreally excel or accelerate
faster to their goals? And Ithink that that's the language
that we'll see customer successshift to .
Speaker 3 (27:08):
I agree with that as well. I think that, and it is
something I always look forwhen hiring CSMs as well, like
business acumen and really, youknow, being able to quickly
understand what's, you know,important for the person on the
other side of the table orwhatnot . So yeah, I , I , I
agree with that and thanks forsharing that. I know you have
asked these questions manytimes to many guests, so I
(27:28):
figured it only makes sense foryou to get to answer them
yourself as well. Uh, Anika ,it's time for the quick fire
round. Are you ready? Oh ,
Speaker 2 (27:35):
I am so nervous.
Malin , . I couldn'teven tell you. I'm like, I'm
like sweating. I'm like sonervous because I challenge
people. So now I have to try toanswer these in a sentence or
less that I think I'm gonnafail, but I'll try.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
Okay. So I'll , I'll try to be nice. So first one,
what is next in , uh, customersuccess? Customer
Speaker 2 (27:53):
Success managers becoming business analyst, as I
said earlier,
Speaker 3 (27:57):
Already answered kind of. Yep . Uh, which SaaS
product can you not livewithout
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Notion? I personally use it and I professionally use
it.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
Oh , okay. Notion. I use it too. Okay. What is your
favorite CS resource podcast?
Speaker 2 (28:13):
Love it . I could , I could list a lot, but I'm
gonna say this one along with afew others that I listen to
almost every day.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
And who should we invite next to the , this
podcast?
Speaker 2 (28:24):
I'm going to say Jason Limp , who's part of
Saster , and I think he's agreat person to have on and I
think he has some really greatfuture predictions of customer
success . Controversial, butgreat predictions. So I think
he would be really fun on thispodcast.
Speaker 3 (28:39):
That's a great idea.
Wow, you didn't , you did well, uh, Annika on the quick fire
round , didn't seem, didn'tseem nervous at all.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
. I was
really worried and I really was
channeling all my previousguests and how they've had a
tough time with this . I waslike, no, Nika, you have to
stick to one sentence. You haveto stick to one sentence.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
Yeah , you nailed it. Wow . I'm impressed Annika
from me and everyone at PlanHat , thank you for being an
absolutely incredible podcasthost. This podcast has really
come to life under yourguidance and leadership, and
you know, all of us, we thinkyou've done an absolutely
incredible job with it. Iwouldn't be surprised if you
pop up again as a ho host , uh,some sometime in the future,
(29:19):
but until then, where can thelisteners find , find you?
Speaker 2 (29:23):
The easiest way to find me is on LinkedIn. Feel
free to connect with me orreach out or message. I always
message back to everyone, soplease do reach out. I love
getting everyone's messages.
And again , thank you forhaving me as on this podcast .
It been an amazing four . Sothank you. I'm excited to hear
what the future hopes for thepodcast. Thank you Annika .
(29:46):
Thank you for listening to theCustomer Success Channel
podcast today. We hope youlearn something new to take
back to your team and yourcompany. If you found value in
our podcast, please make sureto give us a positive review
and make sure you subscribe toour channel as we release new
podcasts every month. Also, ifyou have any topics that you
would like me to discuss in thefuture or you would like to be
(30:08):
a guest on the podcast, pleasefeel free to reach out. All my
contact details are in the shownotes. Thanks again for
listening, and tune in nexttime for more on customer
success.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Hello everyone. I'm your host, Anika Bert , and
welcome back to the nextepisode of the Customer Success
Channel podcast, brought to youby Plan Hat , the Modern
Customer platform. This podcastis created for anyone working
in or interested in thecustomer success field. On this
podcast, we will speak toleaders in the industry about
their experiences and theirdefinitions of customer success
(00:27):
and get their advice and bestpractices on how to run a CS
organization.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Today
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Is a special episode because today is the last time
I will be hosting the CustomerSuccess Channel podcast. It has
been an amazing four years ofhosting this podcast, but all
good things must come to anend. But the good news is that
there will be a new host ofthis podcast moving forward. I
am very excited to introduceMolin Scottland , who is a
(00:56):
seasoned executive with 15years of leadership experience
in B2B SaaS. She is our guesttoday and I'm really excited to
dive into her experience andshowcase her as our next guest.
And as my last guest on thispodcast, she has worked in
sales and in customer success,leading teams ranging from 10
to over hundreds of members,managing revenue growth worth
(01:18):
tens of millions of dollarswith deep experience in various
market segments, including SMBMid-Market and Enterprise.
Mullin's leadership style isresults driven and focused on
operational excellence, proudlyborn and raised in Sweden. She
now resides in New York Citywith her husband and two
daughters, and she is going tobe our next host. So I am
(01:38):
excited to dive in today'spodcast and interview my last
guest for this podcast. HiMalin , welcome to the podcast.
I'm so very excited to have youon this very special episode
today and talk to you a littlebit more. But before we jump
into our topic and get moredeep into this podcast, it
would be great for you to tellus a little bit more about who
(02:01):
you're, and let our listenersknow who it's you're.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Yes, hi Annika.
Thank you so much. I'm very,very excited to be here. My
name is Marlin , uh, but after, uh, spending the last 13
years in the US I respond tobasically anything that starts
with an MI take no offense inany mispronunciations. I'm
based in New York City and I'vespent my whole career 15 years
basically in commercial rolesin in B2B SaaS. And I started
(02:25):
as a sales rep. It wasn'tcalled anything as fancy as,
you know, account executiveback then. And then I kind of
have worked my way up fromthere. I've been in leadership
roles for a long time now. I'verun teams from, you know, five
to 10 people, up to over ahundred people responsible for,
you know , tens of millions of, of dollars of a RR . And I'm
really a true operator. I'mvery passionate about tech and
(02:45):
sas. I love sales and I love cs. Then yeah, I work at Plant
Hats ,
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Amazing. Thank you so much for giving us a brief
insight into who you're andwhat you've been up to . I love
always asking CS Leaderstrajectory into where they find
themselves today, because noone has any similar route .
Everyone has a very, veryunique route . And I also come
from a sales background, so Ilove speaking to other revenue
leaders on the podcast, but Iknow you weren't quite
(03:12):
cross-functionally as wellwithin Plan Hat . I think in
general Plan Hat being astartup and Scale Up , there's
a lot of different teams, a lotof different people, a lot of
different processes that youguys are building and doing,
and because of that you workquite cross-functionally. How
does this work currently atPlan Hat ? How do you work with
different teams? How does CSkind of mix and move between
(03:32):
the different teams at Plan Hat?
Speaker 3 (03:34):
It's such an interesting question because
this is something that we spenda lot of time at Plan Head
thinking about and and , andtalking about too, honestly,
and at plan really, you know,all functions are focused on
how to get, grow and retaincustomers in the best way. We
try not to think about CS astoo much of a department or a
function. We think thateveryone is doing cs because I
(03:56):
think sometimes, you know,putting all responsibility of
your customer and allinformation about your customer
in one department is maybesometimes, you know, the best
way to make sure that there'snot too much cross-functional
ownership of the customer orthat the organization is truly
customer focused . And I thinkif you wanna be customer
focused , which you know,everyone says that, that they
do, right? It's extremelyimportant to see us . And all
(04:19):
the data that you have aboutyour customers is not siloed.
It's important. I think that,you know, the whole
organization has insight intoeverything that's going on with
your customers and that theownership and you know, sadly,
sometimes that also means theblame when something goes wrong
doesn't sit squarely with theCS team. So we really like to
think of CS as, you know, morethan just a function. We think.
(04:39):
We like to think of it assomething that, you know,
everyone has responsibility forthe customer and everyone is
involved with the customer, youknow, from product to sales and
marketing, you name it.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
I love that. I also think that is a great
philosophy to have withinbusiness in general. And I
think that customer success isreally the beating heart of
every organization and everyoneshould be contributing to
making sure that heart keepsbeating in a healthy and happy
way. So yeah, I think that'sgreat that you guys use
ownership and share ownershipacross all departments. Like
(05:10):
you said, sometimes the blamecan end up with the customer
team, but really it's up toeveryone to make sure that the
customer is successful. So it'sreally awesome that you guys
are living and breathing thatphilosophy across multiple
teams, like you alreadymentioned. I think a lot of
people today, especially inthis economy , are very
concerned around how customersuccess fits into the wider org
(05:31):
, but if it should also beeither a revenue generating
function now coming from sales,and I'm thinking you also
coming from sales probablyheavily agree with this, but do
you think CS should be arevenue generating function?
Like how would you factor incustomer success metrics into
wider business metrics?
Speaker 3 (05:51):
This has been a , you know, kind of a big
discussion in cs I thinklately. And I think it really
depends , uh, right, because Ithink CS is kind of a different
thing almost at every company.
And what it needs to be, Ithink differs a lot because of
things like the product orproduct market fit stickiness,
a whole range of your busbusiness specific things. And I
(06:12):
think that that's a bit of aproblem in and of itself , uh,
that, you know , all otherdepartments or most other
departments are very clearlydefined, but CS is a little bit
new and people have done kindof different things with it in
different organizations. And Ithink that's actually what the
CS identity crisis is comingfrom because I think it, it is
very hard to say in general,okay, this is exactly how CS
(06:33):
should be done. You know, forexample, if you need a ton of,
you know, product deliverysupport, more like ProServe
type services and that's thebulk of, you know, what your CS
organization is doing for thebusiness , uh, you know, to
retain and grow customers,then, you know, maybe it should
be a COGS or whatnot. But I'm,you know, leaning more towards
what you were saying too,Annika , like with nine outta
(06:55):
10 products, probably you alsoneed someone to help your
customers stay and grow witheverything that that entails.
Stakeholder relationships,renewing and upselling
customers. And in someorganizations, you know, sales
are doing that and someorganizations that's cs, some
call account management,renewals teams, you , you name
it, right? And my thought is,is , uh, you know, pretty
aligned with yours. And again,my thought is very colored by
(07:18):
my background and, and how I'verun my CS organizations and
maybe, you know, me as a personwho loves sales as well, but I
think that CS should own, youknow , all post sales revenue.
I think it becomes very aimlessif the work that CS does is to
ensure that the customer staysand grows, but they don't have
much or any at all reallyinsight into what that number
even is. I also don't like CSpeople saying that it hurts the
(07:42):
relationship to talk aboutmoney or renewals or upsells or
CSMs are scared to be viewedas, you know, too commercial
because I think, you know, thisis , this is business. The
whole thing is about someonepaying money for your software.
So I'm a bit allergic to , tosome of those arguments. And to
me, similar to you, Annika ,like CS is the heroes of the
organizations. They're, they'rethe lifeblood , they're the
(08:03):
people who drive and own theNRR, which as you know, is one
of the most important metricsin SaaS. CSMs work relentlessly
to deliver business outcomes totheir customers. They keep it
real with their customers. Theycall out bs they realize it's
not about, you know, NPS orcustomers even necessarily
being happy or having nicerelationships. It's, it's about
(08:23):
monetizable customers who, whoreally stick around, right? And
I think it's about CSMs who askfor the business, and , uh, in
my mind they're by far the bestpeople to, you know, own , uh,
all the revenue as well andupsell and renew the customer.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Definitely. And I love that you said that
customer success ends up beingthe post sales revenue part of
the, and so, so rightfully so.
I think a lot of people say CSis in sales , or like you said,
Hey, I don't wanna talk money ,or it's uncomfortable talking
about revenue or any sort ofmoney with customers , but like
you said, no one's here forfree. We're , we're not working
(08:58):
for free. So that definitelymeans that our customers aren't
expecting our product for free.
So we do have to have thoseconversations. Now , do they
have to be the sleazy salesconversations that everyone
thinks is part of, of anupsell? No, not at all. I don't
think that's, that's anythingto do with it. I think customer
success ends up forming abridge between delivering
customer outcomes, but thenensuring that those outcomes
(09:21):
directly relate back to revenuegeneration for the business
that you're working at. And Ithink that as long as customer
success is around those, thetwo hats that you're always
gonna have to wear, you'regonna have to make sure your
customers are receiving valueand outcomes of using your
software. But ultimately itdoes come down to the bottom
line of revenue for yourbusiness and the business
(09:42):
that's paying your paycheck atthe end of the day. So I love
that you said you're allergicto people saying those things .
That has to be the funniestthing a guest has said on this
podcast yet. Um , so I lovehearing that, but sometimes
it's not easy. Tying it back tobusiness metrics, like you
said, NRR seems to be a northstar metric. It seems to be the
understood SaaS metric that alot of leaders look to go
(10:03):
towards, but sometimes that canbe quite lagging or not a
leading indicator. What do youthink is around or the future
business metric that makessense for customer success to
really be focusing on ifrevenue is such a critical part
of customer success?
Speaker 3 (10:18):
Yeah, it's, it's a great question and I think, you
know, again, it's not one thingprobably there's a lot of, you
know, leading indicators in, ingeneral that are usually tied
to, you know, usage and, andthings like that. I think in
general what we'll see more ofin the future is, you know,
really hyperfocused, post-salesteams that are really, really
data driven . I think we willsee a lot more use of
(10:41):
technology and AI to helppeople be more efficient and
get that help in managing maybesimple tasks or maybe even, you
know, managing some, somesmaller customers. We've seen a
lot of that in the last year.
Uh, people are being moreinterested in building out a
kind of a scale model or a techtouch function or whatnot. And
I think we will also see a lotless of kind of breaking out
the revenue ownership. Uh, wewill see less , uh, you know,
(11:05):
excuse my French bs, no healthscores, you know, going around
in circles doing no one anygood. You know, I think overall
the pressure to perform fromthe past year has been a bit
good, honestly and needed forcs, because I think when, when
funding dries up, no one canafford not to impact the bottom
line anymore. And I thinkthat's a really good thing. It
pushes people not to do stuffthat, you know, doesn't have
any real impact . I also thinkthat we will see more of CS not
(11:29):
being seen as a department andmore as a , you know,
company-wide initiative. Ithink we'll see more of
everyone being invested inmaintaining and growing your
customer from the CEO productsales team. I think in the NRR
economy, not many companieswill be able to afford to silo
customer focus in , into asingle department anymore. So I
, I think that, you know,that's a shift that we'll see
(11:49):
as
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Well. Yeah, I think it's all very exciting. Change
is tough. Change is gonna benot easy, but like you said,
this last year really did notleave any room for wiggle or
error or choice. Like everyoneis being hyper-focused on the
bottom line and everyone issuper aware that retaining and
growing customers is the keyskill that you need to make
sure you have in your business.
(12:10):
And that does not mean oneperson or one department. It
means the whole business and itmeans how the business is gonna
be shaped is very dependent onhow your customers end up
seeing value from your product.
And it all ties back down torevenue or the bottom line and
how you're growing as abusiness and how your customers
are growing will ultimatelyaffect again, how you look
outwardly and, and what yourfuture projections look like
(12:33):
within business as well. Butyes, it all sounds very
exciting. Also challenging. I'mnot gonna say that that sounds
easy at all, but I think it's agood challenge. I think
customer success is always upfor a good challenge and the
future of CS is gonna be abright one, but a challenging
one. Anything more that youwould say would change ? You
mentioned a few things, butanything that you would say
would be the ultimate future ofCS if you were to have a, a
(12:56):
magic ball and look into it andsay, this is what CS is gonna
be, what would, what would yourbet be on, you
Speaker 3 (13:01):
Know, to summarize every , everything I feel like
that I've just said, but youknow, more data driven and more
using data and technology to bemore efficient and I think
revenue sitting with thepost-sales team, I think we'll
see more of and more of, youknow, everyone at the company
doing cs. I think , uh, thoseare the three themes that I
(13:21):
think and, you know, hope that, that we will see more of in
the future.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Amazing. I think in speaking of the future, I agree
with those three points, butthere's also a future for this
podcast and this episode is avery special one because we are
transitioning and this will bea new era of customer success
channel podcast. I would loveto know, and I'm sure the
listeners as well, what is nextfor the podcast and what can
(13:45):
our listeners expect movingforward?
Speaker 3 (13:47):
Yes, I think that we can expect interesting thought
provoking subjects and guests.
We will be digging deeper intodifferent businesses and open ,
uh, the pod up a little bitmore to business as a whole,
but still with a very clearfocus on customer management.
And it'll be filmed right herein New York City. The first
episode will come out in March,so yeah , stay stay tuned for
(14:08):
that. Alright , Annika, so nowthat the handover is , uh,
officially done, I think thelisteners are really interested
in, in what's next for you. Um, and having been the host for
so long, I think everyone isreally curious to know the
Annika behind the podcast alittle bit more. So, so who is
that? Who is Annika BehindBehind being a , a podcast
host? Yeah,
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Thank you so much for that. It's strange to be on
this side of the podcast of ,uh, this podcast, but as a host
for the last four years, I'vealso been a customer success
leader for the last 12 years.
And I've sat in a number ofdifferent organizations,
different SaaS startups andscale ups . I have seen from
zero to acquisition when itcomes to the revenue piece . I
(14:51):
have have been in an SDR rolebefore I was an account
manager, and so I have held anumber of different seats and
different places at withinorganizations, but it's always
been in a customer focused orcustomer success role. And
outside of the podcast, I'm aproud dog mom. I am based in
London, England, although theaccent is misleading. I think a
(15:12):
lot of people think I'm basedin the us that accent is going
isn't gonna change. I alwayssay I'm Californian, but with a
British passport now. And Ihave enjoyed doing the podcast,
but I'm so much more than thatand I'm very excited to share
that on today's episode.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
Yeah. And yeah, you you started a new Rob job
recently, didn't you ? Anikatell us , um, a little bit more
about that. Where are you nowand and and what are you doing
now since recent?
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Yeah, definitely. I have started a new role. It has
been a whole three months, butin startup world that could be
three years. But I'm currentlyhead of customer success at
Griffin, which is a banking asa service platform. And it's a
whole new space and sector forme. I have always been in B2B
SaaS. I have always beenfocused on like SaaS products
(16:00):
and working with other SAScustomers, but for me this is
the first time venturing intoworking at a bank and working
in the FinTech space. So it'sboth exciting and challenging
and tough and exhilarating allat once. And , uh, I'm fairly
new in the role, but thecompany, the team is really
amazing. And coming back towhat you said earlier, Malin
(16:22):
customer success or thecustomer is actually at the
heart of everything we do. Somuch so that our commercial
team doesn't even call itprospects. We call everyone a
customer. Um, we work in theway that our product team is on
all customer calls. Thecustomer success team actually
is part of the productorganization, so it is a , uh,
very much customer says at theheart of everything we do. And,
(16:45):
and I love being a part of thatearly build and really
structuring that and whatthat's gonna mean for the
future of Griffin.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
Wow, that's amazing.
Practicing what , uh, I ire
that's sounds super excitingand like a great fit for you.
So what does your team looklike there? And I, I know
you're still, you know , fairlynew. What are your , do you
have any kind of big goals for2024 or anything else that
you're, you've set out to dohere fairly ear early on in ,
in the role?
Speaker 2 (17:11):
It's super exciting.
I am first in customer successat Griffin. They wanted to
bring in a leader to make surethat they had someone that's
gonna structure what the futureof the customer journey and
customer success and the fullcustomer experience would look
like. I'm hiring , uh, thefirst CSM at the moment, so
that is also happening, whichis super exciting. But we are
(17:32):
early in our journey when itcomes to launch and, and
customers. We have only aselect few customers that we
have in a beta launch that'sgoing live in a , in a few
weeks here. So for us, we arejust very early days, early
stage startup . We are , uh, wehave very aggressive goals for
2024 and, you know, are , areon that rocket ship journey and
(17:53):
trajectory and making sure thatwe not only acquire and, and
sign the right customers, butthey see success with us for
years to come because we areactually building a product
alongside of them. So it's,it's truly exciting to be that
early stage at the moment and,and building that with the
product and wider organizationfor our customers.
Speaker 3 (18:12):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You get to really be part ofshaping something new. That
sounds so exciting and it seemslike you're looking for CSM
also, so this could be a plugif anyone is looking to , uh,
work with Annika . Good thingsto come from there. It sounds
like, and you mentioned this alittle bit, that it was a very,
you know, customer-focusedorganization, but where does cs
(18:32):
uh , you know, sit at Griffinand, and in the organization it
seems to be very, you know,cross-functional and it seems
to be a big focus for theorganization as a whole, but
anything else there?
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Yeah, definitely it's , uh, it's
cross-functionally. Uh , when Icame in, I was part of the
operations organization, but aseven in the three months I've
been there, as the companyevolves, as our product
evolves, as we grow as abusiness, it's become heavily
evident that the customerfeedback needs to be directly
in line with the productmanagers, the product
(19:04):
organization, but also how weshape and build our product
should be directly around whatour customers are giving
feedback on. So the customerteam success and support all
sit under product and that iswhat we will see for the
foreseeable because we wannabuild a product and a company
that our customers truly loveand see value from from day
(19:25):
one. And, and we as anorganization see that that is
critical and customer success,again, is at the heart of
everything we do. It's a partof the executive team, it's a
part of day to day what we arebuilding and doing every single
day. And I, I already alludedto this a little bit earlier,
but I truly love that anyonefrom the sales team to our
product team refers to everyoneas a customer, sometimes it
(19:48):
gets very confusing, buteveryone is considered a
customer. So it's, it's reallygreat that everyone is that
involved and again, everyone isso willing to jump on a
customer call or have almostlike chat on the side about a
customer issue or a customerproblem. Everyone is is very,
very bought into the fact thatif our customers are
successful, we will ultimatelybe successful. So it's really,
(20:11):
really great to be at anorganization that sees this so
early on because I have been atorganizations before where it's
only realized after things havebroken that how important
making the customer the centerof everything you do. So for
me, it's just really nice thatearly on in the journey of, of
how we're building a bank andhow we're building a product is
(20:31):
very much, it's embedded thatus delivering value for
customers from day one is justalmost like a default state
rather than a nice to have .
Speaker 3 (20:41):
Uh , that's, that's amazing. I feel like, wow ,
this is gonna be a , a , a , ahuge success it sounds like. I
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Hope so.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
Yeah,
Exactly. Uh , no , it soundslike you're, you're doing
things right for sure. And I'mreally curious to, to ask you
something because you havespent , uh, you know, so many
years running this podcast, youknow, and talking to so many CS
professionals and what are thethings that you think most of
them agree on versus the thingsthat are maybe done differently
in different organizationsfrom, you know, your experience
(21:10):
and , and the people thatyou've been been , uh, speaking
to on the podcast?
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Yeah, I think that this is gonna be probably the
most common answer I havegotten on the podcast and in
any conversation that I've hadwith any CS professional is
that it depends, and funnilyyou just said that earlier in ,
in this very recording, and Ithink that most people that
I've ever talked to on thispodcast have always said, well,
(21:38):
it depends if , uh, you know ,we should have onboarding in 30
days or it depends if NPS isimportant or it depends if we
have revenue or if sales hasrevenue. It's just, I think the
number one thing I've heardover the years as it depends
because customer success is notcookie cutter and it's not done
(21:58):
the same at any organization.
Um, I've been at a number nowand I couldn't say that the way
I've done customer success fiveyears ago is the way I'm doing
it today. I think there'sbroadly some fundamentals, some
metrics, some things that wetrack and that we're intrigued
by or that we are are veryimportant within customer
success. But I'd have to saymost times it totally depends
(22:22):
on the maturity of yourproduct, the maturity of your
customer base, and really thematurity of your organization
and how like far along you arein your journey. Do you have
CSMs? Do you just have support?
Like all of that totallydepends. So to come back and
answer your question, ittotally depends on who you want
me to talk about. But everysingle person I've talked to
has basically told me thatcustomer success depends on X
(22:47):
or y
Speaker 3 (22:49):
So funny just what I said too. Yeah. Since you
started the podcast, I'm reallycurious, have you seen any
shifts or have you seen any,any way that CS has kind of
changed since, since youstarted the podcast? Are people
talking about different thingsnow versus, you know, a few
years ago? Is there anythinglike that that you've could
(23:10):
reflect over? Yeah,
Speaker 2 (23:12):
I know it's been four years and I'm just like
trying to recall all thedifferent conversations I've
had over the years.
really, really aware of howimportant, what it was to
retain customers and it'sbetter to have a customer that
actually stays with you andgrows with you and renews
rather than, than going out tomarket and trying to acquire
(23:34):
new customers. I think beforethe pandemic there was probably
a lot more immaturity withincustomer success, meaning like
a lot of people were just, notthat we always said we were the
happiness department, but itwas more seen that, hey, the CS
team is there to make ourcustomers happy, but it wasn't
(23:55):
truly understood that customersuccess is there to drive
business outcomes for ourcustomer. And that ties back to
revenue. And I think thatthat's the most recent chapter
of customer success is I feellike previous chapters were all
about the infancy or thedevelopment of customer success
within organizations and thatorganizations fully understood
(24:16):
what the heck customer teamswere doing or , and what value
they brought within thebusiness. And then in the
pandemic, it kind ofaccelerated that timeline
because people were like, ohdang, we really have to care
about our customers because wecan't always go and spend
endless money. And, and moneydidn't , wasn't as cheap
anymore. So you had to actuallyfocus on what you had rather
(24:36):
than trying to spend all yourmoney on acquisition costs. And
then I think in the last fewyears, again, due to the, you
know, macroeconomics of theworld, fundraising what it is
and, and cash not being cheap,it's really, really doubled
down on customer success beingpart of the wider business and
ensuring that it ties back tothe bottom line as we were
(24:57):
talking about earlier. So Iwould say that for me
personally, I think I've seenthe evolution of being more of
an immature organization ortrying to figure it out and
then suddenly the organizationsstart to see value in customer
success. And now I think it'snot just the organization, it's
internally and externally thatpeople are truly trying and
understanding what, what thevalue customer success brings.
(25:19):
Yeah,
Speaker 3 (25:20):
That's, that's so, so interesting to hear I think.
And uh, you know, leaving thepast behind, what do you think
is the future? Like how do youthink CS will kind of continue
to evolve?
Speaker 2 (25:31):
I think I had this conversation just a few months
ago, I can't remember who itwas with , but I said that
customer success managers areessentially business analysts
or like business strategists.
And I think that a lot of whatcustomer success does, if you
think of, you know, bigconsulting firms and how they
have management consultantsthat go into companies and
(25:53):
really assess how they'relooking, what they're doing, et
cetera. I feel like customersuccess is in-house consulting
and you are there to be abusiness analyst. You are there
to really understand what it isthat your customer needs and
wants and the outcomes they'relooking for. And I think that
is the future of customersuccess. I think it always has
(26:16):
been there, but I think it'sfinally, as we just spoke
about, the evolution ofcustomer success has really
come to its fruition wherewe're not just seen as
happiness, we're not justupselling or cross selling , we
are driving business outcomesfor our customers that
ultimately result in revenuegrowth for our company. And I
(26:36):
think CSMs really embracing thefact that you are there to be a
business analyst, you're thereto go into your customers
almost like a representative attheir organization and showing
them not just, okay, this ishow my product does this. It's
why should you care? Whatreturn on investment is this
gonna give our business and howis it gonna help our business,
(26:58):
meaning the customer's businessreally excel or accelerate
faster to their goals? And Ithink that that's the language
that we'll see customer successshift to .
Speaker 3 (27:08):
I agree with that as well. I think that, and it is
something I always look forwhen hiring CSMs as well, like
business acumen and really, youknow, being able to quickly
understand what's, you know,important for the person on the
other side of the table orwhatnot . So yeah, I , I , I
agree with that and thanks forsharing that. I know you have
asked these questions manytimes to many guests, so I
(27:28):
figured it only makes sense foryou to get to answer them
yourself as well. Uh, Anika ,it's time for the quick fire
round. Are you ready? Oh ,
Speaker 2 (27:35):
I am so nervous.
Malin ,
like sweating. I'm like sonervous because I challenge
people. So now I have to try toanswer these in a sentence or
less that I think I'm gonnafail, but I'll try.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
Okay. So I'll , I'll try to be nice. So first one,
what is next in , uh, customersuccess? Customer
Speaker 2 (27:53):
Success managers becoming business analyst, as I
said earlier,
Speaker 3 (27:57):
Already answered kind of. Yep . Uh, which SaaS
product can you not livewithout
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Notion? I personally use it and I professionally use
it.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
Oh , okay. Notion. I use it too. Okay. What is your
favorite CS resource podcast?
Speaker 2 (28:13):
Love it . I could , I could list a lot, but I'm
gonna say this one along with afew others that I listen to
almost every day.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
And who should we invite next to the , this
podcast?
Speaker 2 (28:24):
I'm going to say Jason Limp , who's part of
Saster , and I think he's agreat person to have on and I
think he has some really greatfuture predictions of customer
success . Controversial, butgreat predictions. So I think
he would be really fun on thispodcast.
Speaker 3 (28:39):
That's a great idea.
Wow, you didn't , you did well, uh, Annika on the quick fire
round , didn't seem, didn'tseem nervous at all.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
channeling all my previousguests and how they've had a
tough time with this . I waslike, no, Nika, you have to
stick to one sentence. You haveto stick to one sentence.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
Yeah , you nailed it. Wow . I'm impressed Annika
from me and everyone at PlanHat , thank you for being an
absolutely incredible podcasthost. This podcast has really
come to life under yourguidance and leadership, and
you know, all of us, we thinkyou've done an absolutely
incredible job with it. Iwouldn't be surprised if you
pop up again as a ho host , uh,some sometime in the future,
(29:19):
but until then, where can thelisteners find , find you?
Speaker 2 (29:23):
The easiest way to find me is on LinkedIn. Feel
free to connect with me orreach out or message. I always
message back to everyone, soplease do reach out. I love
getting everyone's messages.
And again , thank you forhaving me as on this podcast .
It been an amazing four . Sothank you. I'm excited to hear
what the future hopes for thepodcast. Thank you Annika .
(29:46):
Thank you for listening to theCustomer Success Channel
podcast today. We hope youlearn something new to take
back to your team and yourcompany. If you found value in
our podcast, please make sureto give us a positive review
and make sure you subscribe toour channel as we release new
podcasts every month. Also, ifyou have any topics that you
would like me to discuss in thefuture or you would like to be
(30:08):
a guest on the podcast, pleasefeel free to reach out. All my
contact details are in the shownotes. Thanks again for
listening, and tune in nexttime for more on customer
success.
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