February 22, 2023 • 36 mins
In this episode, our host Anika Zubair chats with Julie Reader, Customer Success Coach at Dooly about landing your first CS role without any SaaS experience.
Taking the first step into your customer success (CS) career is something we all have to do once. But how do you apply for your first CS role without having any SaaS experience? And what are some of the transferrable skills you can bring from your previous role?
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hello everyone, I'm your host Anika Zub and welcome
back to the next episode of theCustomer Success Channel
podcast, brought to you by PlanHat, the Modern Customer
platform.
This podcast is created foranyone working in or interested
in the customer success field.
On this podcast, we will speakto leaders in the industry about
their experiences and theirdefinitions of customer success
(00:27):
and get their advice and bestpractices on how to run a c s
organization.
Today I am speaking with JulieRader all about her transition
into customer success.
Julie is currently a customersuccess coach at Duly, but prior
to being a C S M, she was aspecial education school teacher
(00:47):
for over six years.
And before that, a basketballcoach.
We will chat with her todayabout the parallels between her
previous experiences and how herlife experiences have
transferred into the customersuccess industry.
She will share with us tips,tricks, and best practices of
what it takes to transition intocustomer success and the SaaS
world.
(01:07):
And she will be sharing how shelanded her first interview to
get her first job in customersuccess and how her skills
transferred from teachingchildren into helping customers.
Welcome Julie to the podcast.
I am so excited to have you hereand excited to chat about this
topic, cuz I know it's reallyclose to your heart and, and
(01:28):
everything you've done so far inyour career.
But for those of our listenersthat don't already know who you
are and what you've done so far,can you please tell us a little
bit more about yourself, yourcurrent role and, and a little
bit about your uniquebackground?
Cause I think it'll, it'll comeinto a great conversation today.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Yeah, and thank you so much for having me.
I'm super excited to be here andshare my story and like talk all
things customer success and alsotransitioning into customer
success.
Um, so yeah, I, I grew up inWisconsin.
I am previously an educator, soI was teaching in special
education for six years and thenI decided it just wasn't for me
anymore.
So I decided to transition intocustomer success where that led
(02:07):
me to, um, working at Dooly inmy first tech job.
I love writing, I love readingand, and like former athlete as
well, played in collegebasketball.
And so basketball's like myfavorite sport.
But I've played lots of sportsand yeah, really, really, um,
connected with my family andreally close to my family as
well.
So just a little, a little bitabout me.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Amazing.
And I know that you just saidyou're a basketball coach, which
I, or was Yeah.
And that's something I learnedin the, in the process of
getting to know you for thisrecording, but you're also now a
customer success coach.
I think that's your titlecurrently, which is really cool.
Really a, a wa like 360 of acoach title there.
But can you tell us a little bitmore about what inspired you to
(02:49):
work in customer success?
Does it relate back to thatcoaching at all?
Give us a little bit of insightof why customer success.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Yeah, that's a great question.
So when I, I like left my job, Ikind of like got on LinkedIn
because everyone was sayinglike, you know, if you wanna be
in business, you have to get onLinkedIn.
And I was like, okay.
So, um, I got on LinkedIn andthen I kind of like boycotted it
a little bit.
Like I was like, you know, didthe whole fill out your resume
and apply thing.
But then I started, um, gettingto know people in the customer
(03:17):
success space and I also justmet some people that were
looking to get into customersuccess.
And then I just kind of dovehead into it and, and then
learned from LinkedIn, likepeople that were in customer
success started following themand I just kind of like chose
that I wanted to do it becauseafter I started learning more
about it, I was like, oh, Ithink I have a lot of a
transferrable skills fromteaching, so I want, I think I
(03:38):
can do this.
Like I think I can do this.
And I had all theseconversations with people in
customer success in the CS spaceand yeah, so then I just was
like, I can do this.
I can get, I can get a job inthis, um, if I put in the work.
So that's kind of how I got gotinto it.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Amazing.
And I know the customer successcommunity is really strong,
especially on LinkedIn.
I think you've built up andshare a lot on LinkedIn.
Now for someone who boycottedLinkedIn in the early days, you
definitely share a lot moreabout transitioning into
customer success and how to dothat, especially from a a
non-tech background likeyourself.
But why teaching to tech orcustomer success?
(04:13):
You know, you could have gone inin other directions within a
business, whether it's it'smarketing or, or a different
direction.
Why, why tech or why customersuccess?
What, what stood out about that?
Speaker 2 (04:24):
There's a lot of things about it that I liked.
Like I, I've always just hadlike this nurturing
characteristic that I just liketo help people.
I like to see people havesuccess.
I'm very curious by nature too.
So I love that part of aboutcustomer success, being able to
ask questions, do somediscovery, also really
understand their unique problemsand, and their unique
(04:45):
businesses.
So I love that part about it.
Also, just building therelationship as well.
So a lot of that pared over fromteaching.
Um, I didn't do a lot ofresearch on other types of
roles.
Like I kind of just decided,okay, I'm gonna go and try this
after I like did a little bit ofresearch, but if it wasn't cs,
like some other things that are,I'm curious about now,
(05:06):
especially since I've done a lotof writing on LinkedIn and
things and I, I like writingjust as like journaling and
things as well, like contentmarketing and, and copywriting
are areas that I'm superinterested as well.
But super fortunate to have my,my position right now and all
that I'm learning just aboutbusiness in general from all the
customers I have from like myteammates and the business that
(05:27):
I'm in dually.
So it's, it's been a greatexperience so far.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Amazing.
Amazing.
And um, for those that don'tknow much about dually or or
what Dually does and what typeof customers you serve for
contacts, for those that arelistening, what, what is dually?
What kind of customers are youdealing with daily?
I'm thinking about basketballand education, which is very
different to probably, probablywhat duly expects today, but
what, what is it that you'reworking with today?
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Yeah, so I'm working with a lot of um, sales, sales
teams, sales professionals,leadership, sometimes CS as
well.
Um, we are a platform that aconnected workspace that helps
sales be more efficient so theycan save time in their day so
that they can spend more time onselling, like getting rid of
that, that admin work that takesso much time.
So like we connect seamlessly toSalesforce, they can update all
(06:13):
their fields, they can takenotes, prep for calls, so, so we
are, we are that platform.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Amazing.
I also love that you went in adirection that's not EdTech you
went into like CRM site or salesside of things.
Yeah.
Which again is a, a greattransition, but a lot that
people don't think of whenthey're thinking of
transitioning from education tocustomer success, which is a
topic we're talking about.
And I think it's a really hottopic right now because the last
(06:38):
episode that I just recordedwith Jen York, we talked about
customer success in a possiblerecession and I know there's a
lot of people that are lookingfor jobs right now more so than
ever, but I think a lot ofpeople are also taking that leap
of faith of transitioning intotech or customer success.
So when you first started doingit or when you decided, you
(06:58):
mentioned LinkedIn, but what aresome of the first things that
you did when you decided totransition to tech and, and look
for that job?
Speaker 2 (07:05):
I had like a group on LinkedIn as well that um, one of
the girls that I met on LinkedInset up Stella.
So we had like a bunch of CSMs,like people that were looking to
transition into cs.
Um, so that was really great tojust be able to like collaborate
on ideas and like questions wehad and just um, you know, talk
to people.
I think that's, that's reallyhelpful.
Like I had a little smallcommunity, like at first I feel
(07:26):
like I was a little lost, right?
Like I think everyone may be alittle lost when you start out.
But I started getting smarter asI went along right.
And I realized like I reallyneeded a plan cuz I couldn't
just be like doing random thingsall day long.
I started making like a list of10 companies that I wanted to
work for started followingcompanies, started just getting
to know specific companies.
(07:47):
Like there's so many tech worldcompanies like you have, you
could get so lost in that.
So like even narrowing down intolike an industry that you'd like
to be in.
Like I read a ton of books oncs, I networked with people in
the space that would answer myquestions.
Then introduced me to otherpeople as well, which was super
helpful.
Then they also got to know mystory and would share things
back like, you know, jobs theysaw or things.
(08:09):
I also did the C S M level oneSuccess Hacker course and just
attended a bunch of webinars aswell and just took notes and
like started learning that way.
So yeah, I did a ton of thingsto then like get, gain my
knowledge in cs, but then alsolike then when I really started
understanding that was when itstarted connecting me.
Like, oh this is what I did inteaching.
Oh this is how it relates in cs.
And then, then I could tell mystory better when I was like in
(08:32):
interviews talking to people cuzyou know, they don't know, like
maybe they don't know aboutteaching and what teachers do,
especially in special education.
So I needed to tell that storyso they understood like how I
could be successful in the
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Job.
Amazing.
And I completely agree, likefiguring out how to market or
sell your transferrable skillsis key when you're looking at a
new role or a new position ortransitioning.
But you did mention somethingthat I want to dive in a little
bit deeper to is the networkingpiece.
I think that's super powerful.
I think having a, a strongcommunity around you of people
(09:04):
who are either like-minded ordoing similar things to what
you're doing, it helps a lot.
But again, it can be sooverwhelming and, and very lost
in the, in the sea ofinformation you might find on
LinkedIn.
And you mentioned that peergroup or that that small group
of people that weretransitioning.
How did you start that networkor, or where did you even go to
start beginning to look at peersthat are doing similar things to
(09:27):
you?
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Yeah, and that was the one of the things I actually
forgotten to mention.
Like, I just started figuringout LinkedIn, like I started
utilizing the platform to myadvantage and I had been
applying a little bit with aresume, but I felt like a lot of
people were just seeing like,you know, she has education
experience and no businessexperience, like we're gonna,
we're gonna pass her over.
Like a lot of people were justapplying.
(09:48):
I wanted to do different things,like I needed to find a way to
stand out.
So started posting on LinkedIn,like sharing things that I
learned, sharing about myjourney.
Also just started following likedifferent like newsletters in CS
and, and people that were in thespace like you know, Christie
Feltus, so people from successhacker, people from client
success, people from um, metJohn Johnson, he's someone in
(10:10):
the CS space that I know hashelped me a ton.
Um, and just just startedreaching out to those people and
see if they'd hop on a 15 minutecall with me and like did my
research on them and made surelike my questions weren't
something I could Google andjust so that I knew that they
knew that I was valuing theirtime.
Mm-hmm.
.
Yeah, it just kind of was likewhoever I, I started following
their, their, their pages andlike commenting on their posts
(10:31):
and things and learning fromthem and then I was able to, to
hop on calls with them and alsolike the CS space is super,
super nice and like willing tohelp.
So obviously that's the natureof the job too.
Um, and so they were all really,really helpful and still are
helpful today if I have anyquestions.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
That's amazing.
And I think taking that firststep towards reaching out is
really intimidating to a lot ofpeople cuz you see these people
sharing, you see them talkingabout, you know, their decades
of experience and customersuccess and you're like, how are
they gonna give me 10, 15minutes of their time to discuss
how I can even apply into thisworld, into this space?
(11:08):
But like you said, beingpersonal, making sure you're
regularly engaging, learning howto use LinkedIn, all of these
are key traits that I think youreally need to figure out and
once you do it, it becomes alittle less scary, which is
really important.
And I think you also touchedupon the fact that sending out
your resume with just all theteaching experience on it, it
didn't exactly spark all theexcitement for people to say,
(11:32):
Hey, we need to interview thiswoman about this position cuz
she doesn't have any, anyprevious customer success
experience.
So how did you sell thosetransferable skills or what are
some of the skills that you didhighlight on your resume or in
your cover letter or even in thefirst interviews where you were
able to showcase, hey, if Itransfer from teaching into
(11:52):
customer customer success, theseare the skills I have on day
one.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.
And I also think it's importantto mention that I used my
LinkedIn as like a way to marketmyself.
So I shared my story of how Iwas wanted to transition into
customer success and my about mesection, I have my like tagline,
you know, and I have my coverphoto and like people knew that
I was like going to be in cuswanted to be in customer
success, right?
(12:16):
So I think that's important toobecause like as I was commenting
and things like they were goingto my page and then seeing my
story and like were curious andwanted to learn more in terms of
resume and being able tocommunicate my story.
So how I got my job at Dolethough was how just commenting
on the director of customersuccess at the time, she's the
VP now, um, a post of hers and Ihad just had a curious question
(12:39):
about like the AE to see ushandoff.
Hmm.
And so then I like messaged herin her direct messages and we
were having the conversationback and forth and she's like,
Hey, we actually have aposition, like let's, let's hop
on a call.
And so I didn't actually have tosend like a resume or anything,
but then, um, when I was, so Ilike after this point, like I
(12:59):
was trying to be like gettingaway from the resume and just
trying to get to that firstconversation so that I could
actually get in front of people.
Cause at that point I was like,I've done like a lot of research
on it.
Like obviously I don't knoweverything, but I'm at this
point where I'm like, I want tojust like get in there and start
learning.
So I was just very hungry.
But anyway, so then when I gotinto the interview process and
like anytime I was on likeconversations with people in CS
(13:22):
space, right?
Because those are allopportunities, I was like just
sharing my story and like why Iwanted to transition, explaining
success and like the backgroundI've had with success, like
outside of like cs mm-hmm.
success.
Um, and how I just really likeseeing people achieve success.
Yeah.
And then, um, I also was justtalking about what I did in
special ed and how ittransferred into cs.
(13:43):
So like just a few things.
Like I also was working remotelyfor a little bit during the
pandemic, so I had a lot ofexperience like working on the
computer, like running meetingslike IEPs are, are big in
special education, individualeducation plans.
So I was like running meetingslike very, very, um, like
important meetings with parentsonline.
So like I'm running all thesemeetings in CS as well.
(14:05):
Like I have experience withthat.
Um, you know, writing agendas,facilitating meetings, but also
I wrote a lot of plans forstudents for like a year's time
with goals.
And so it's very similar tosuccess plans.
So like I was communicating allof these things and really
painting the picture for them,um, so that they understood
like, you know, I have someskills here that are
(14:26):
transferrable, obviously like Igotta work on like my business
vacuum and all this stuff, butlike I'm hungry and I'm willing
to learn.
So just like give me a chance,you know,.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Yeah, I love that.
But I also love that you gotyour role in a non-traditional
way.
But I think about this and Ispeak to lots of recruiters and
a lot of people in the space andI've heard, and this is not
exact numbers, but I heard aboutlike 90 or 95% of jobs are
actually placed through yournetwork and not through an
(14:55):
application.
So you essentially did that, butyou did that with the network
that you were growing mm-hmm.
at the same time.
So not even an existing network,but something you were working
on and engaging with.
And like you said, you had aconversation that you weren't
looking for a job at the end ofit maybe, or you were just
curious and you were just askingquestions and you asked the
(15:15):
correct question at the correcttime that led to, hey, we have a
role, do you wanna chat aboutit?
Because you're starting to showa little bit of domain expertise
in your own way and you'restarting to show interest, which
at the end of the day, I think alot of these SAS and tech
businesses, they are looking forpeople who are hungry, like you
mentioned, but someone who'swilling to learn and has some
(15:37):
curiosity of the role, the, theI guess industry you're working
in, which is critical and, andreally important.
And I think that that's so coolthat you landed something
without a CV really, or, or aresume because I think a lot of
people get hung up on that.
But we can go into a rabbit holeabout CVS and resumes, but I
wanna talk a little bit moreabout now the interview process.
So we talked about building yourprofile on LinkedIn.
(16:00):
We talked about reaching out andengaging all amazing, but I
think the first interview can bequite intimidating, especially
when you're not in the businessworld and you're coming from a a
totally different world.
How did you prepare for yourfirst C s m interviews and and
how did you look at them or howdid you see success out of them?
Speaker 2 (16:18):
Yeah, for sure.
So some of the things that I didprepare were like, get a, a
baseline of questions that I forsure was gonna be able to
answer, right.
Research the company, understandthe tool at a basic level,
right?
Also research the people in thecompany, the people that you're
gonna work with.
Mm-hmm.
, um, see if youcan talk with them beforehand.
I think I had connected with alot of them prior, so that
(16:40):
helped me as well.
Mm-hmm.
.
But yeah, just so you can getthe vibe of the culture as well.
What is really different fromteaching is this, the
conversation about money.
It's something that teachers exI'll just talk about teachers
because that's my experience oftransitioning, but like that's a
conversation we really don'thave in teaching as much.
So like being able to reallyunderstand like what the
(17:02):
baseline is for like your, yourrole that you're looking in in
terms of like salary, be able tohave those negotiations.
Um, something that can getbrought up pretty early.
So that's also kind of new.
Um, but then also in terms oflike the CS stuff, like just the
questions also connect withother people that have had
interviews, how the processwent.
Like do your research U YouTube.
(17:22):
I was also just talking withpeople in the little community
that I was in.
So I think like, and I, I likeconnected with some of the
people that were like my mentorsand they were like guiding me
through the process.
That was really super helpful.
Dooley's interview processwasn't very long, so I was, I
was fortunate for that.
But yeah, it was just, it wasjust basically like one
conversation with the directorof CS and then I had like a
(17:43):
assessment type type situation.
And then after that I was likeexplaining my assessment, had a
conversation with some of the,the teammates that I work with.
And then it was that it was theoffer.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
So.
Awesome.
Awesome.
And I think that that's greatthat you were able to leverage
the community and network.
I think that that's like thecore part of what we keep coming
back to, which is reallyimportant.
I think it's really great to seepeople like yourself, but just a
lot of people sharing how totransition and, and break into
customer success.
And I think that you alsomentioned you were taking some
(18:14):
courses or doing some additionalthings outside of networking in
order to I guess accelerate yourtransition into cs.
Can you speak a little bit moreabout that?
What did you do outside ofnetworking that accelerated the
career change?
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Yeah, and another thing before I get on that that
I wanna highlight is being ableto tell your story in effective
way.
Like being able to sellyourself, like that can be
uncomfortable for people, butyou really have to, and then
like at the end of my duallyinterview, something that I
literally got from LinkedIn thatwas like some questions, like
that's another thing too, likefollow LinkedIn.
Like obviously not everything'sfact on there, but like there's
(18:49):
some people who are putting outlike questions that are great to
ask.
Also be a good question asker.
That's a great, that's a greattrait too.
Just there's a ton ofinformation on LinkedIn, but one
of the things that I did in thedual interview that I think was
was impressive to the directorat the time was like, I asked, I
basically closed the interview,like, was there any reason like
why you wouldn't hire me?
And so like, I think she waslike, oh, you're closing the
(19:10):
interview, that's so cool,.
And she like said that and thenshe, she's like, oh, I don't
think so.
What we do here is like, webasically say like, if
everyone's an ffl, like then wewant that person to work here.
So it was just, it was aninteresting experience.
It was the first time I ever didthat.
So, um, but then, okay, so backto the certification.
So Success Hacker, I had seenthis up, this was during like
Black Friday and it literallywas like 20 bucks to buy on
(19:32):
Black Friday for like, um, allthese different things that I
could just get a baseline oflearning on.
Hmm.
So that was really helpfulbecause then I could again speak
to my knowledge of like what Idid in teaching and how it
related and it just like, yeah,it just build up my like ACU for
C s m so, or customer success.
So yeah, it was, it was like notexpensive and it just gave me a
(19:54):
lot of more info.
I wouldn't, I don't advocatethat people need to go like take
17 different certifications,right?
There's a lot of freeinformation out there that you
can just learn about, but it didum, like guide me and help me
and, and just learn more aboutthe, the industry.
So
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Definitely, and I think that that's a key piece
that you just brought up.
You can definitely pay forthings and get certifications,
which I think is great.
And I think Success HackerHacker does a brilliant job of a
course and you know, level 1, 2,3, I think up to four or
something where you can becertified in C S M.
But like you just said, there isa number of resources out there,
podcast being one.
(20:31):
But in other ways there's,there's webinars, there are
YouTube videos, there are blogposts.
There is so much that the CSworld is sharing out there, like
you just said.
And the one great thing aboutcustomer success or CSMs is that
we're willing to share.
And I think it's a matter of youtaking your own initiative and
going in there and saying, Hey,I wanna go find out the most I
(20:53):
can in order to accelerate mycareer transition into customer
success.
How do I do that?
Okay, well I can just start bygoogling a few things and
clicking here and clicking thereand eventually you find a whole
bunch of documentation,webinars, you know, key tips or
any sort of like playbook oranything like that.
It's all out there as well.
And it's up to you how youinterpret that and how you sell
(21:17):
your story, which is what Iwanna ask a little bit more
about.
How did you get good or better,I should say, at selling your
story?
Cuz it sounds like you have agreat story and you've worked
really hard on, on, on tellingit.
What, how did you practice that?
Or, or what, what skills did youbring into telling your story?
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Yeah, I can't remember who, who like sparked
this um, idea in my head, but itmight even, Claire is someone in
the text space that I connectedwith.
I, I forget her na last nameright now, but she was someone
that I connected with and she, Ithink she had posted something
about like, make sure you havelike a little elevator pitch
that you're kind of like, youknow, you not like it's
(21:55):
something like super salesy, butlike, basically like I took that
as like be able to tell yourstory.
And so for me, I'm like, if Iwanna be able to explain why I
wanna be in customer success,like, okay, I'm gonna talk about
success.
Like success is something that Ican relate to and it's something
that I've like, had experiencewith in my life in terms of
sports and things.
So I, that's kind of, I waslike, oh, I wanna be able to
(22:17):
like quickly cause everyone's,everyone is saying this when I
get on a call, right?
So, and I realized like, this iswhat they're gonna say in
interviews.
So a lot of people were like,you know, tell me your story,
like Y Cs, like tell me yourstory Y Cs.
And so like, then I just gotreally good at when I was on
networking calls and then I alsorealized like, this is something
I can use for interviews.
So I got really good at justlike saying it in a short amount
of time, but making it, um, youknow, making it kind of like a
(22:40):
wow factor where like people areinterested in hearing more, you
know, think like, think writinga LinkedIn post, you know, you
gotta engage'em with the firstfew lines.
Like that's kind of how you doit when you speak.
Same with podcasts, you know.
So
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Definitely I completely agree and I, I, I
would say if you can figure outthree sentences on your elevator
pitch, like you said, and reallybe able to know that like inside
and out and know how tocorrectly say it to the right
audience, then you're in a very,very good spot.
Because I think everyone askswhy Cs or why this job or why
(23:16):
duly or you know, why, why, why?
But if you had those threesentences just ready to go and
you know them and that's almostlike your mantra or your,
it's like, it's like your corebeliefs, this is why then, then
it makes complete sense andyou're not necessarily selling
it, but you're just bringingpeople into the fold of
believing what you believereally.
So, um, I really love that.
(23:37):
And you mentioned questions thatyou prepare for, but also
questions that you're ready toask in interviews, which I think
is critical and really showscuriosity, interest in the role.
You mentioned closing out the,the interview, which was a great
way to land the job, but arethere any other questions that
you would think are importantfor anyone asking or, or making
sure they ask in the C s Minterview process?
Speaker 2 (23:59):
That's a great question.
I'm not sure if anything's comcoming straight to mind right
now, but who is really good atproviding good questions?
Oh, Carly Agar.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Oh yes, Carly's great.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
She just put out this LinkedIn post recently that was
like all these vague questionspeople often ask mm-hmm Like how
is your culture?
Or something like that.
But she has like all these otherquestions that are more detailed
that explain a great way to like, um, how you can set yourself
apart, right?
Like they're not onlyinterviewing you, you're also
interviewing them.
So like you can stand out byasking really good questions
(24:32):
because it's also a great way toshow that you did your research.
Hmm.
And so I think that's reallygood.
Uh, I, I should direct you toher page on LinkedIn.
Carly Agar, she, she have like apost where it's like a bunch of
questions that are superdetailed.
Yeah, I think if you can askreally good questions and like
sit down before your interviewand like write a few, at least
(24:52):
like five to six that you wannamake sure to ask.
Yeah, I think that'll set
Speaker 1 (24:56):
You apart.
Definitely.
I completely agree and Icouldn't, I guess echo the
statement even more or moreclear is that you are also
interviewing that company so youdefinitely need to do your due
diligence, your homework and askquestions of what you really
want.
Because I think a lot of peopleforget that this is a human on
(25:16):
the other side of the zoom calland they will tell you if you
ask the right question, what itis you're looking for like about
culture or staff turnover or youknow, what does your benefits
look like or you know, if youwere to re-interview for this
company and this role, would youor why would you not kind of
thing.
All these types of questions aregreat to ask cuz it gives you a
(25:39):
better picture of the type ofcompany you are joining, um,
which is really important.
Um, moving into somethingdifferent but also topical.
I know a lot of people who comefrom non-tech backgrounds into
customer success or tech or SaaSwhen they transition into tech,
they think they have to code orthey have to be super technical.
(26:02):
Like how did you go aboutbreaking that stigma?
How did you go about like, let'ssay not being scared of that
stigma as well?
Speaker 2 (26:10):
Yeah, I think at first when I heard like the tech
industry, I'm like, well I'm nottechy
Speaker 1 (26:15):
, but
Speaker 2 (26:17):
I'm like, but then I started realizing like CSMs, yes
they should be product experts,but they're not engineers,
right?
So I think that scared me alittle bit at first as well.
But I just started realizinglike, I think what scared me
most starting out is A A C S Mwas more of like, I feel like
they're gonna ask me a bunch ofquestions that I don't know the
answers to, obviously, right?
Like I'm starting out and thenit's like I have to know all
(26:39):
these answers, but it's like,no, you don't, you have to be
good at saying, okay, I don'thave the answer right now.
I'm gonna go check with my team,I'm gonna figure out the answer,
this is the timeframe that I'llrespond in and make sure you
hold up to that timeframe thatyou promised for the customer.
So obviously over time like youget more comfortable, you can
ask more questions on calls andyou learn more about the product
(27:00):
and everything.
But I was just a little nervousabout like not being able to
answer all their questions, butthen it's almost like, well, why
would I know all the answers?
So just kind of like talkingmyself down on that, you know,
Speaker 1 (27:12):
,
definitely.
And I think I tell all my, likeprevious CSMs I've hired on my
teams as well.
Like you're not gonna have everyanswer, but just know that if
you say, I'll go check and findthe answer for you, like you
said, hold yourself accountableand make sure you go check and
find the answer.
And no one's an expert, not evenyour head of director, VP of
(27:34):
customer success knows all theanswers and not even your, your,
you know, product team will knowall the answers, but what you
can do is at least provide somesort of guideline or help or
some sort of answer that leadsthem towards what they're
looking for without just leavingthem, you know, hanging and no,
no answer in sight.
But that's the important part isbeing able to hold yourself
(27:55):
accountable to finding some sortof an answer and making sure
that you're, you're doing asmuch as you can when it comes to
product knowledge and, andequipping yourself to answer
those questions.
But no one's got all theanswers.
If we did, we wouldn't know whatelse we would be doing if we
wouldn't be able to actually goresearch the answers.
But looking back at yourtransition and how you've done
(28:17):
it and everything you've justtalked about today on the
podcast, is there anything thatyou regret about the process or
anything you would've donedifferently?
Or if you had to do it again,what would you do?
Speaker 2 (28:29):
I don't really believe in regret, right?
Because I feel like everythinghappened for a reason and how it
was supposed to happen.
But if I would do it over, Ithink I would spend less time in
the stage of like not having aplan and like plan, have a plan
sooner.
Like I think what happens whenpeople transition is they're, or
wanting to transition is they'relike, I gotta action, action,
(28:50):
action, action this.
And it's almost like, likemeaning like they gotta have a
conversation or they gotta dosomething on LinkedIn or
whatever, but it's like maybeyou could just sit back for like
a few days or even a week andjust like plan out what, what
you're trying to do.
Like have an action plan, youknow, so like, um, really
research all of the differentjob types that you're interested
in so that you can reallyunderstand like what you really
(29:14):
wanna go into so that whenyou're networking with people
you can really tell them whatyou're looking for so that they
can help you in return.
Um, I think a lot of people,that's a problem, that's a
mistake a lot of people make.
They're very vague in networkingconversations and people are
like, I don't know how to helpyou and I also don't have time
to ask you 10 more questions tofigure it out.
And then also just like, yeah,your plan of action like 10, 10
(29:37):
companies you're looking at,start strategically networking
with those people.
Start commenting on people'sposts.
Like if you're gonna go in thethe LinkedIn way, um, yeah, have
your accomplishments laid out,know your story, be able to tell
it in three, three sentenceslike you said.
Yeah, those are all things thatyou could do like as you're
starting to, to figure this outversus just like randomly not
(30:00):
having a plan and kind of likegoing at it scattered brain.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
Yeah, I completely agree.
I think everything in life,especially looking for a new job
should definitely have a planand it doesn't have to follow an
exact plan, but having looseguidelines really helps you
first understand what you'relooking for and second, make
sure you actually land in whatyou are looking for.
Because like you said, if you'rejust loosely going about
(30:24):
commenting or applying or withno intention, you're gonna get
the same sort of reaction backbecause whatever you do in life,
the energy you put in is theenergy you receive back.
And so I think it's reallycritical, like you said, to be
mindful and really think aboutyour plan of action when it
comes to transitioning into acustomer success role.
(30:45):
And on that, I do wanna keeptalking, but I'm gonna ask the
final question on this topicbefore we transition into
quickfire section.
So for everyone that's listeningto this episode, likely they are
transitioning into customersuccess.
What is your biggest piece ofadvice or kind of your biggest
learning that you'd wanna sharewith our listeners today?
Speaker 2 (31:05):
I would say think about what everyone else is
doing and think about how youcan do the opposite and, and
stand out.
Cuz at one point in my journey Iwas thinking about like, okay,
everyone's applying to jobs likethe standard way and that's like
how we were conditioned, right?
But I was like, okay, I'm gonnado something different and try
to stand out in a unique waysince I don't have the like,
typical background.
(31:27):
Um, and so that really helpedme.
Well I know it's like a uniqueway, but it helped me and it ma
helped me learn a lot.
Like I got super uncomfortableand found ways to just navigate
the system a little differentway.
And I think making a plan, likeI just said, a super important,
reflecting on it, revising asyou go, but like at least having
some sort of strategy that youfollow so that you're just,
(31:49):
you're not wasting time that youcould be actually making
progress moving and movingforward.
So
Speaker 1 (31:54):
Yeah, I love that and I completely agree and I think
that everyone is unique andspecial in their own way.
No matter how many people areapplying for that job.
How many hundreds, if notthousands in today's market are
applying for that one job?
How can you, you know, bedifferent because you're the
only one, you're the only JulieRader, there might be 10 other
(32:14):
people applying, but how are youdifferent?
And I think that that's supercritical and important to
remember as you, as you sendthat job application.
So thank you for sharing that.
Um, I wanna transition into ourquickfire question round, which
is a challenge for all of myguests to try to answer the next
few questions in one sentence orless.
I'll be honest, I have yet tocome across very many people
(32:35):
that are able to do this, butare you ready to take on the
challenge?
Yeah, don't be nervous.
We could do this.
So your first question is, whatdo you think is next for the CS
industry?
Speaker 2 (32:47):
I believe more programs should be put in place
for CS in terms of being able toput more programs in place and
for segments so that like, it'snot all just like one-to-one
touch, it's more like being ableto service people as like a
group and a community and, andbeing able to create programs
for those different segments.
(33:07):
I definitely blew the the onesentence thing, but I wanna be
able to explain that
Speaker 1 (33:12):
.
That's fine.
Yeah.
But I agree that there isdefinitely more out there when
it comes to customer success,whether it's digital tech, touch
one-to-one, one to many, youname it.
There's a whole different waysthat you can service your
different segments of customers,but I think that you hit the
nail on the head where we're ata point in customer success
where we have to servicedifferent customers based on
different needs.
(33:32):
So Amazing.
Next question is, what is yourfavorite app you cannot live
without?
It can be on your phone or your
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Laptop.
My favorite app is the Notesapp.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
Oh wow.
That's like super basic, but Ican see how powerful that is as
well.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
Yeah, I use it a lot for writing.
Yeah.
Like if I'm on a walk and I'mlike getting ideas and I put in,
uh, a little like few ideas sothat I can write later on,
Speaker 1 (33:56):
I feel the same.
Like I have a note for literallyeverything in life, but I I I
always feel it's underrated thatpeople think like, oh, I can
just quickly jot something down.
But it's like having a notepadright?
Right.
All the time with you.
Amazing.
Next question is, what SASproduct can you not live without
as a customer success manager?
This
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Is super basic, but I cannot live out without Gmail.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
Very true.
We, we cannot do our ourwork day in, day out without our
email.
But that's, I also, I love Gmailtoo, but both personally and
professionally, I think it's anextremely powerful, uh, email
client.
So yeah, basic but effective.
I love your, your layer answersso far,.
The next question is, where isyour favorite place to learn
(34:41):
more about customer success?
Whether it's a book, acommunity, a person, where do
you learn the most?
Speaker 2 (34:46):
I'll say that I just really like learning, well, one
of my favorite books that I'veread so far, and I'm still
reading it through, but onOnboarding Matters by Donna
Webber, was a really good bookthat I like to learn from.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
Yeah, it's a great book and Donna's a great human
being and there's so much inthere about how important
onboarding is in the customerjourney.
So I love that book.
Great recommendation.
And my final question for youtoday is what is your favorite
part of customer success orbeing a C S M?
Speaker 2 (35:11):
I love asking curious questions and being able to like
dive deeper into the customerand really understand their
problems and their, theirdifferent learning about their
unique businesses and just beingable to understand and learn
more about the customer ingeneral, like building that
relationship.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
Amazing.
Thank you so much Julie, forsharing all your insights, tips,
tricks, best practices abouttransitioning into customer
success.
We could honestly keep going cuzI'd love to ask you more and
more, but for time's sake, we'regonna bring this to an end.
But if any of our listeners haveanything more that they have
questions on or curious about orwanna learn more from you,
(35:48):
where's the best place to findyou?
Speaker 2 (35:50):
The best place to find me is LinkedIn, just Julie
Rader.
Yes.
You can search me and I'll be onLinkedIn there.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
Amazing.
And I'll make sure to link thatdown in the show notes.
But thank you again, Julie, foryour time.
I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Thank you so much for having
Speaker 1 (36:01):
Me.
Thank you for listening to theCustomer Success Channel podcast
today.
We hope you learned somethingnew to take back to your team
and your company.
If you found value in ourpodcast, please make sure to
give us a positive review andmake sure you subscribe to our
channel as we release newpodcasts every month.
Also, if you have any topicsthat you would like me to
discuss in the future or youwould like to be a guest on the
(36:23):
podcast, please feel free toreach out.
All my contact details are inthe show notes.
Thanks again for listening andtune in next time for more on
customer success.
Hello everyone, I'm your host Anika Zub and welcome
back to the next episode of theCustomer Success Channel
podcast, brought to you by PlanHat, the Modern Customer
platform.
This podcast is created foranyone working in or interested
in the customer success field.
On this podcast, we will speakto leaders in the industry about
their experiences and theirdefinitions of customer success
(00:27):
and get their advice and bestpractices on how to run a c s
organization.
Today I am speaking with JulieRader all about her transition
into customer success.
Julie is currently a customersuccess coach at Duly, but prior
to being a C S M, she was aspecial education school teacher
(00:47):
for over six years.
And before that, a basketballcoach.
We will chat with her todayabout the parallels between her
previous experiences and how herlife experiences have
transferred into the customersuccess industry.
She will share with us tips,tricks, and best practices of
what it takes to transition intocustomer success and the SaaS
world.
(01:07):
And she will be sharing how shelanded her first interview to
get her first job in customersuccess and how her skills
transferred from teachingchildren into helping customers.
Welcome Julie to the podcast.
I am so excited to have you hereand excited to chat about this
topic, cuz I know it's reallyclose to your heart and, and
(01:28):
everything you've done so far inyour career.
But for those of our listenersthat don't already know who you
are and what you've done so far,can you please tell us a little
bit more about yourself, yourcurrent role and, and a little
bit about your uniquebackground?
Cause I think it'll, it'll comeinto a great conversation today.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Yeah, and thank you so much for having me.
I'm super excited to be here andshare my story and like talk all
things customer success and alsotransitioning into customer
success.
Um, so yeah, I, I grew up inWisconsin.
I am previously an educator, soI was teaching in special
education for six years and thenI decided it just wasn't for me
anymore.
So I decided to transition intocustomer success where that led
(02:07):
me to, um, working at Dooly inmy first tech job.
I love writing, I love readingand, and like former athlete as
well, played in collegebasketball.
And so basketball's like myfavorite sport.
But I've played lots of sportsand yeah, really, really, um,
connected with my family andreally close to my family as
well.
So just a little, a little bitabout me.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Amazing.
And I know that you just saidyou're a basketball coach, which
I, or was Yeah.
And that's something I learnedin the, in the process of
getting to know you for thisrecording, but you're also now a
customer success coach.
I think that's your titlecurrently, which is really cool.
Really a, a wa like 360 of acoach title there.
But can you tell us a little bitmore about what inspired you to
(02:49):
work in customer success?
Does it relate back to thatcoaching at all?
Give us a little bit of insightof why customer success.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Yeah, that's a great question.
So when I, I like left my job, Ikind of like got on LinkedIn
because everyone was sayinglike, you know, if you wanna be
in business, you have to get onLinkedIn.
And I was like, okay.
So, um, I got on LinkedIn andthen I kind of like boycotted it
a little bit.
Like I was like, you know, didthe whole fill out your resume
and apply thing.
But then I started, um, gettingto know people in the customer
(03:17):
success space and I also justmet some people that were
looking to get into customersuccess.
And then I just kind of dovehead into it and, and then
learned from LinkedIn, likepeople that were in customer
success started following themand I just kind of like chose
that I wanted to do it becauseafter I started learning more
about it, I was like, oh, Ithink I have a lot of a
transferrable skills fromteaching, so I want, I think I
(03:38):
can do this.
Like I think I can do this.
And I had all theseconversations with people in
customer success in the CS spaceand yeah, so then I just was
like, I can do this.
I can get, I can get a job inthis, um, if I put in the work.
So that's kind of how I got gotinto it.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Amazing.
And I know the customer successcommunity is really strong,
especially on LinkedIn.
I think you've built up andshare a lot on LinkedIn.
Now for someone who boycottedLinkedIn in the early days, you
definitely share a lot moreabout transitioning into
customer success and how to dothat, especially from a a
non-tech background likeyourself.
But why teaching to tech orcustomer success?
(04:13):
You know, you could have gone inin other directions within a
business, whether it's it'smarketing or, or a different
direction.
Why, why tech or why customersuccess?
What, what stood out about that?
Speaker 2 (04:24):
There's a lot of things about it that I liked.
Like I, I've always just hadlike this nurturing
characteristic that I just liketo help people.
I like to see people havesuccess.
I'm very curious by nature too.
So I love that part of aboutcustomer success, being able to
ask questions, do somediscovery, also really
understand their unique problemsand, and their unique
(04:45):
businesses.
So I love that part about it.
Also, just building therelationship as well.
So a lot of that pared over fromteaching.
Um, I didn't do a lot ofresearch on other types of
roles.
Like I kind of just decided,okay, I'm gonna go and try this
after I like did a little bit ofresearch, but if it wasn't cs,
like some other things that are,I'm curious about now,
(05:06):
especially since I've done a lotof writing on LinkedIn and
things and I, I like writingjust as like journaling and
things as well, like contentmarketing and, and copywriting
are areas that I'm superinterested as well.
But super fortunate to have my,my position right now and all
that I'm learning just aboutbusiness in general from all the
customers I have from like myteammates and the business that
(05:27):
I'm in dually.
So it's, it's been a greatexperience so far.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Amazing.
Amazing.
And um, for those that don'tknow much about dually or or
what Dually does and what typeof customers you serve for
contacts, for those that arelistening, what, what is dually?
What kind of customers are youdealing with daily?
I'm thinking about basketballand education, which is very
different to probably, probablywhat duly expects today, but
what, what is it that you'reworking with today?
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Yeah, so I'm working with a lot of um, sales, sales
teams, sales professionals,leadership, sometimes CS as
well.
Um, we are a platform that aconnected workspace that helps
sales be more efficient so theycan save time in their day so
that they can spend more time onselling, like getting rid of
that, that admin work that takesso much time.
So like we connect seamlessly toSalesforce, they can update all
(06:13):
their fields, they can takenotes, prep for calls, so, so we
are, we are that platform.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Amazing.
I also love that you went in adirection that's not EdTech you
went into like CRM site or salesside of things.
Yeah.
Which again is a, a greattransition, but a lot that
people don't think of whenthey're thinking of
transitioning from education tocustomer success, which is a
topic we're talking about.
And I think it's a really hottopic right now because the last
(06:38):
episode that I just recordedwith Jen York, we talked about
customer success in a possiblerecession and I know there's a
lot of people that are lookingfor jobs right now more so than
ever, but I think a lot ofpeople are also taking that leap
of faith of transitioning intotech or customer success.
So when you first started doingit or when you decided, you
(06:58):
mentioned LinkedIn, but what aresome of the first things that
you did when you decided totransition to tech and, and look
for that job?
Speaker 2 (07:05):
I had like a group on LinkedIn as well that um, one of
the girls that I met on LinkedInset up Stella.
So we had like a bunch of CSMs,like people that were looking to
transition into cs.
Um, so that was really great tojust be able to like collaborate
on ideas and like questions wehad and just um, you know, talk
to people.
I think that's, that's reallyhelpful.
Like I had a little smallcommunity, like at first I feel
(07:26):
like I was a little lost, right?
Like I think everyone may be alittle lost when you start out.
But I started getting smarter asI went along right.
And I realized like I reallyneeded a plan cuz I couldn't
just be like doing random thingsall day long.
I started making like a list of10 companies that I wanted to
work for started followingcompanies, started just getting
to know specific companies.
(07:47):
Like there's so many tech worldcompanies like you have, you
could get so lost in that.
So like even narrowing down intolike an industry that you'd like
to be in.
Like I read a ton of books oncs, I networked with people in
the space that would answer myquestions.
Then introduced me to otherpeople as well, which was super
helpful.
Then they also got to know mystory and would share things
back like, you know, jobs theysaw or things.
(08:09):
I also did the C S M level oneSuccess Hacker course and just
attended a bunch of webinars aswell and just took notes and
like started learning that way.
So yeah, I did a ton of thingsto then like get, gain my
knowledge in cs, but then alsolike then when I really started
understanding that was when itstarted connecting me.
Like, oh this is what I did inteaching.
Oh this is how it relates in cs.
And then, then I could tell mystory better when I was like in
(08:32):
interviews talking to people cuzyou know, they don't know, like
maybe they don't know aboutteaching and what teachers do,
especially in special education.
So I needed to tell that storyso they understood like how I
could be successful in the
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Job.
Amazing.
And I completely agree, likefiguring out how to market or
sell your transferrable skillsis key when you're looking at a
new role or a new position ortransitioning.
But you did mention somethingthat I want to dive in a little
bit deeper to is the networkingpiece.
I think that's super powerful.
I think having a, a strongcommunity around you of people
(09:04):
who are either like-minded ordoing similar things to what
you're doing, it helps a lot.
But again, it can be sooverwhelming and, and very lost
in the, in the sea ofinformation you might find on
LinkedIn.
And you mentioned that peergroup or that that small group
of people that weretransitioning.
How did you start that networkor, or where did you even go to
start beginning to look at peersthat are doing similar things to
(09:27):
you?
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Yeah, and that was the one of the things I actually
forgotten to mention.
Like, I just started figuringout LinkedIn, like I started
utilizing the platform to myadvantage and I had been
applying a little bit with aresume, but I felt like a lot of
people were just seeing like,you know, she has education
experience and no businessexperience, like we're gonna,
we're gonna pass her over.
Like a lot of people were justapplying.
(09:48):
I wanted to do different things,like I needed to find a way to
stand out.
So started posting on LinkedIn,like sharing things that I
learned, sharing about myjourney.
Also just started following likedifferent like newsletters in CS
and, and people that were in thespace like you know, Christie
Feltus, so people from successhacker, people from client
success, people from um, metJohn Johnson, he's someone in
(10:10):
the CS space that I know hashelped me a ton.
Um, and just just startedreaching out to those people and
see if they'd hop on a 15 minutecall with me and like did my
research on them and made surelike my questions weren't
something I could Google andjust so that I knew that they
knew that I was valuing theirtime.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, it just kind of was likewhoever I, I started following
their, their, their pages andlike commenting on their posts
(10:31):
and things and learning fromthem and then I was able to, to
hop on calls with them and alsolike the CS space is super,
super nice and like willing tohelp.
So obviously that's the natureof the job too.
Um, and so they were all really,really helpful and still are
helpful today if I have anyquestions.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
That's amazing.
And I think taking that firststep towards reaching out is
really intimidating to a lot ofpeople cuz you see these people
sharing, you see them talkingabout, you know, their decades
of experience and customersuccess and you're like, how are
they gonna give me 10, 15minutes of their time to discuss
how I can even apply into thisworld, into this space?
(11:08):
But like you said, beingpersonal, making sure you're
regularly engaging, learning howto use LinkedIn, all of these
are key traits that I think youreally need to figure out and
once you do it, it becomes alittle less scary, which is
really important.
And I think you also touchedupon the fact that sending out
your resume with just all theteaching experience on it, it
didn't exactly spark all theexcitement for people to say,
(11:32):
Hey, we need to interview thiswoman about this position cuz
she doesn't have any, anyprevious customer success
experience.
So how did you sell thosetransferable skills or what are
some of the skills that you didhighlight on your resume or in
your cover letter or even in thefirst interviews where you were
able to showcase, hey, if Itransfer from teaching into
(11:52):
customer customer success, theseare the skills I have on day
one.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.
And I also think it's importantto mention that I used my
LinkedIn as like a way to marketmyself.
So I shared my story of how Iwas wanted to transition into
customer success and my about mesection, I have my like tagline,
you know, and I have my coverphoto and like people knew that
I was like going to be in cuswanted to be in customer
success, right?
(12:16):
So I think that's important toobecause like as I was commenting
and things like they were goingto my page and then seeing my
story and like were curious andwanted to learn more in terms of
resume and being able tocommunicate my story.
So how I got my job at Dolethough was how just commenting
on the director of customersuccess at the time, she's the
VP now, um, a post of hers and Ihad just had a curious question
(12:39):
about like the AE to see ushandoff.
Hmm.
And so then I like messaged herin her direct messages and we
were having the conversationback and forth and she's like,
Hey, we actually have aposition, like let's, let's hop
on a call.
And so I didn't actually have tosend like a resume or anything,
but then, um, when I was, so Ilike after this point, like I
(12:59):
was trying to be like gettingaway from the resume and just
trying to get to that firstconversation so that I could
actually get in front of people.
Cause at that point I was like,I've done like a lot of research
on it.
Like obviously I don't knoweverything, but I'm at this
point where I'm like, I want tojust like get in there and start
learning.
So I was just very hungry.
But anyway, so then when I gotinto the interview process and
like anytime I was on likeconversations with people in CS
(13:22):
space, right?
Because those are allopportunities, I was like just
sharing my story and like why Iwanted to transition, explaining
success and like the backgroundI've had with success, like
outside of like cs mm-hmm.
Um, and how I just really likeseeing people achieve success.
Yeah.
And then, um, I also was justtalking about what I did in
special ed and how ittransferred into cs.
(13:43):
So like just a few things.
Like I also was working remotelyfor a little bit during the
pandemic, so I had a lot ofexperience like working on the
computer, like running meetingslike IEPs are, are big in
special education, individualeducation plans.
So I was like running meetingslike very, very, um, like
important meetings with parentsonline.
So like I'm running all thesemeetings in CS as well.
(14:05):
Like I have experience withthat.
Um, you know, writing agendas,facilitating meetings, but also
I wrote a lot of plans forstudents for like a year's time
with goals.
And so it's very similar tosuccess plans.
So like I was communicating allof these things and really
painting the picture for them,um, so that they understood
like, you know, I have someskills here that are
(14:26):
transferrable, obviously like Igotta work on like my business
vacuum and all this stuff, butlike I'm hungry and I'm willing
to learn.
So just like give me a chance,you know,
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Yeah, I love that.
But I also love that you gotyour role in a non-traditional
way.
But I think about this and Ispeak to lots of recruiters and
a lot of people in the space andI've heard, and this is not
exact numbers, but I heard aboutlike 90 or 95% of jobs are
actually placed through yournetwork and not through an
(14:55):
application.
So you essentially did that, butyou did that with the network
that you were growing mm-hmm.
So not even an existing network,but something you were working
on and engaging with.
And like you said, you had aconversation that you weren't
looking for a job at the end ofit maybe, or you were just
curious and you were just askingquestions and you asked the
(15:15):
correct question at the correcttime that led to, hey, we have a
role, do you wanna chat aboutit?
Because you're starting to showa little bit of domain expertise
in your own way and you'restarting to show interest, which
at the end of the day, I think alot of these SAS and tech
businesses, they are looking forpeople who are hungry, like you
mentioned, but someone who'swilling to learn and has some
(15:37):
curiosity of the role, the, theI guess industry you're working
in, which is critical and, andreally important.
And I think that that's so coolthat you landed something
without a CV really, or, or aresume because I think a lot of
people get hung up on that.
But we can go into a rabbit holeabout CVS and resumes, but I
wanna talk a little bit moreabout now the interview process.
So we talked about building yourprofile on LinkedIn.
(16:00):
We talked about reaching out andengaging all amazing, but I
think the first interview can bequite intimidating, especially
when you're not in the businessworld and you're coming from a a
totally different world.
How did you prepare for yourfirst C s m interviews and and
how did you look at them or howdid you see success out of them?
Speaker 2 (16:18):
Yeah, for sure.
So some of the things that I didprepare were like, get a, a
baseline of questions that I forsure was gonna be able to
answer, right.
Research the company, understandthe tool at a basic level,
right?
Also research the people in thecompany, the people that you're
gonna work with.
Mm-hmm.
I think I had connected with alot of them prior, so that
(16:40):
helped me as well.
Mm-hmm.
But yeah, just so you can getthe vibe of the culture as well.
What is really different fromteaching is this, the
conversation about money.
It's something that teachers exI'll just talk about teachers
because that's my experience oftransitioning, but like that's a
conversation we really don'thave in teaching as much.
So like being able to reallyunderstand like what the
(17:02):
baseline is for like your, yourrole that you're looking in in
terms of like salary, be able tohave those negotiations.
Um, something that can getbrought up pretty early.
So that's also kind of new.
Um, but then also in terms oflike the CS stuff, like just the
questions also connect withother people that have had
interviews, how the processwent.
Like do your research U YouTube.
(17:22):
I was also just talking withpeople in the little community
that I was in.
So I think like, and I, I likeconnected with some of the
people that were like my mentorsand they were like guiding me
through the process.
That was really super helpful.
Dooley's interview processwasn't very long, so I was, I
was fortunate for that.
But yeah, it was just, it wasjust basically like one
conversation with the directorof CS and then I had like a
(17:43):
assessment type type situation.
And then after that I was likeexplaining my assessment, had a
conversation with some of the,the teammates that I work with.
And then it was that it was theoffer.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
So.
Awesome.
Awesome.
And I think that that's greatthat you were able to leverage
the community and network.
I think that that's like thecore part of what we keep coming
back to, which is reallyimportant.
I think it's really great to seepeople like yourself, but just a
lot of people sharing how totransition and, and break into
customer success.
And I think that you alsomentioned you were taking some
(18:14):
courses or doing some additionalthings outside of networking in
order to I guess accelerate yourtransition into cs.
Can you speak a little bit moreabout that?
What did you do outside ofnetworking that accelerated the
career change?
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Yeah, and another thing before I get on that that
I wanna highlight is being ableto tell your story in effective
way.
Like being able to sellyourself, like that can be
uncomfortable for people, butyou really have to, and then
like at the end of my duallyinterview, something that I
literally got from LinkedIn thatwas like some questions, like
that's another thing too, likefollow LinkedIn.
Like obviously not everything'sfact on there, but like there's
(18:49):
some people who are putting outlike questions that are great to
ask.
Also be a good question asker.
That's a great, that's a greattrait too.
Just there's a ton ofinformation on LinkedIn, but one
of the things that I did in thedual interview that I think was
was impressive to the directorat the time was like, I asked, I
basically closed the interview,like, was there any reason like
why you wouldn't hire me?
And so like, I think she waslike, oh, you're closing the
(19:10):
interview, that's so cool,
And she like said that and thenshe, she's like, oh, I don't
think so.
What we do here is like, webasically say like, if
everyone's an ffl, like then wewant that person to work here.
So it was just, it was aninteresting experience.
It was the first time I ever didthat.
So, um, but then, okay, so backto the certification.
So Success Hacker, I had seenthis up, this was during like
Black Friday and it literallywas like 20 bucks to buy on
(19:32):
Black Friday for like, um, allthese different things that I
could just get a baseline oflearning on.
Hmm.
So that was really helpfulbecause then I could again speak
to my knowledge of like what Idid in teaching and how it
related and it just like, yeah,it just build up my like ACU for
C s m so, or customer success.
So yeah, it was, it was like notexpensive and it just gave me a
(19:54):
lot of more info.
I wouldn't, I don't advocatethat people need to go like take
17 different certifications,right?
There's a lot of freeinformation out there that you
can just learn about, but it didum, like guide me and help me
and, and just learn more aboutthe, the industry.
So
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Definitely, and I think that that's a key piece
that you just brought up.
You can definitely pay forthings and get certifications,
which I think is great.
And I think Success HackerHacker does a brilliant job of a
course and you know, level 1, 2,3, I think up to four or
something where you can becertified in C S M.
But like you just said, there isa number of resources out there,
podcast being one.
(20:31):
But in other ways there's,there's webinars, there are
YouTube videos, there are blogposts.
There is so much that the CSworld is sharing out there, like
you just said.
And the one great thing aboutcustomer success or CSMs is that
we're willing to share.
And I think it's a matter of youtaking your own initiative and
going in there and saying, Hey,I wanna go find out the most I
(20:53):
can in order to accelerate mycareer transition into customer
success.
How do I do that?
Okay, well I can just start bygoogling a few things and
clicking here and clicking thereand eventually you find a whole
bunch of documentation,webinars, you know, key tips or
any sort of like playbook oranything like that.
It's all out there as well.
And it's up to you how youinterpret that and how you sell
(21:17):
your story, which is what Iwanna ask a little bit more
about.
How did you get good or better,I should say, at selling your
story?
Cuz it sounds like you have agreat story and you've worked
really hard on, on, on tellingit.
What, how did you practice that?
Or, or what, what skills did youbring into telling your story?
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Yeah, I can't remember who, who like sparked
this um, idea in my head, but itmight even, Claire is someone in
the text space that I connectedwith.
I, I forget her na last nameright now, but she was someone
that I connected with and she, Ithink she had posted something
about like, make sure you havelike a little elevator pitch
that you're kind of like, youknow, you not like it's
(21:55):
something like super salesy, butlike, basically like I took that
as like be able to tell yourstory.
And so for me, I'm like, if Iwanna be able to explain why I
wanna be in customer success,like, okay, I'm gonna talk about
success.
Like success is something that Ican relate to and it's something
that I've like, had experiencewith in my life in terms of
sports and things.
So I, that's kind of, I waslike, oh, I wanna be able to
(22:17):
like quickly cause everyone's,everyone is saying this when I
get on a call, right?
So, and I realized like, this iswhat they're gonna say in
interviews.
So a lot of people were like,you know, tell me your story,
like Y Cs, like tell me yourstory Y Cs.
And so like, then I just gotreally good at when I was on
networking calls and then I alsorealized like, this is something
I can use for interviews.
So I got really good at justlike saying it in a short amount
of time, but making it, um, youknow, making it kind of like a
(22:40):
wow factor where like people areinterested in hearing more, you
know, think like, think writinga LinkedIn post, you know, you
gotta engage'em with the firstfew lines.
Like that's kind of how you doit when you speak.
Same with podcasts, you know.
So
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Definitely I completely agree and I, I, I
would say if you can figure outthree sentences on your elevator
pitch, like you said, and reallybe able to know that like inside
and out and know how tocorrectly say it to the right
audience, then you're in a very,very good spot.
Because I think everyone askswhy Cs or why this job or why
(23:16):
duly or you know, why, why, why?
But if you had those threesentences just ready to go and
you know them and that's almostlike your mantra or your
it's like, it's like your corebeliefs, this is why then, then
it makes complete sense andyou're not necessarily selling
it, but you're just bringingpeople into the fold of
believing what you believereally.
So, um, I really love that.
(23:37):
And you mentioned questions thatyou prepare for, but also
questions that you're ready toask in interviews, which I think
is critical and really showscuriosity, interest in the role.
You mentioned closing out the,the interview, which was a great
way to land the job, but arethere any other questions that
you would think are importantfor anyone asking or, or making
sure they ask in the C s Minterview process?
Speaker 2 (23:59):
That's a great question.
I'm not sure if anything's comcoming straight to mind right
now, but who is really good atproviding good questions?
Oh, Carly Agar.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Oh yes, Carly's great.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
She just put out this LinkedIn post recently that was
like all these vague questionspeople often ask mm-hmm Like how
is your culture?
Or something like that.
But she has like all these otherquestions that are more detailed
that explain a great way to like, um, how you can set yourself
apart, right?
Like they're not onlyinterviewing you, you're also
interviewing them.
So like you can stand out byasking really good questions
(24:32):
because it's also a great way toshow that you did your research.
Hmm.
And so I think that's reallygood.
Uh, I, I should direct you toher page on LinkedIn.
Carly Agar, she, she have like apost where it's like a bunch of
questions that are superdetailed.
Yeah, I think if you can askreally good questions and like
sit down before your interviewand like write a few, at least
(24:52):
like five to six that you wannamake sure to ask.
Yeah, I think that'll set
Speaker 1 (24:56):
You apart.
Definitely.
I completely agree and Icouldn't, I guess echo the
statement even more or moreclear is that you are also
interviewing that company so youdefinitely need to do your due
diligence, your homework and askquestions of what you really
want.
Because I think a lot of peopleforget that this is a human on
(25:16):
the other side of the zoom calland they will tell you if you
ask the right question, what itis you're looking for like about
culture or staff turnover or youknow, what does your benefits
look like or you know, if youwere to re-interview for this
company and this role, would youor why would you not kind of
thing.
All these types of questions aregreat to ask cuz it gives you a
(25:39):
better picture of the type ofcompany you are joining, um,
which is really important.
Um, moving into somethingdifferent but also topical.
I know a lot of people who comefrom non-tech backgrounds into
customer success or tech or SaaSwhen they transition into tech,
they think they have to code orthey have to be super technical.
(26:02):
Like how did you go aboutbreaking that stigma?
How did you go about like, let'ssay not being scared of that
stigma as well?
Speaker 2 (26:10):
Yeah, I think at first when I heard like the tech
industry, I'm like, well I'm nottechy
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Speaker 2 (26:17):
I'm like, but then I started realizing like CSMs, yes
they should be product experts,but they're not engineers,
right?
So I think that scared me alittle bit at first as well.
But I just started realizinglike, I think what scared me
most starting out is A A C S Mwas more of like, I feel like
they're gonna ask me a bunch ofquestions that I don't know the
answers to, obviously, right?
Like I'm starting out and thenit's like I have to know all
(26:39):
these answers, but it's like,no, you don't, you have to be
good at saying, okay, I don'thave the answer right now.
I'm gonna go check with my team,I'm gonna figure out the answer,
this is the timeframe that I'llrespond in and make sure you
hold up to that timeframe thatyou promised for the customer.
So obviously over time like youget more comfortable, you can
ask more questions on calls andyou learn more about the product
(27:00):
and everything.
But I was just a little nervousabout like not being able to
answer all their questions, butthen it's almost like, well, why
would I know all the answers?
So just kind of like talkingmyself down on that, you know,
Speaker 1 (27:12):
And I think I tell all my, likeprevious CSMs I've hired on my
teams as well.
Like you're not gonna have everyanswer, but just know that if
you say, I'll go check and findthe answer for you, like you
said, hold yourself accountableand make sure you go check and
find the answer.
And no one's an expert, not evenyour head of director, VP of
(27:34):
customer success knows all theanswers and not even your, your,
you know, product team will knowall the answers, but what you
can do is at least provide somesort of guideline or help or
some sort of answer that leadsthem towards what they're
looking for without just leavingthem, you know, hanging and no,
no answer in sight.
But that's the important part isbeing able to hold yourself
(27:55):
accountable to finding some sortof an answer and making sure
that you're, you're doing asmuch as you can when it comes to
product knowledge and, andequipping yourself to answer
those questions.
But no one's got all theanswers.
If we did, we wouldn't know whatelse we would be doing if we
wouldn't be able to actually goresearch the answers
But looking back at yourtransition and how you've done
(28:17):
it and everything you've justtalked about today on the
podcast, is there anything thatyou regret about the process or
anything you would've donedifferently?
Or if you had to do it again,what would you do?
Speaker 2 (28:29):
I don't really believe in regret, right?
Because I feel like everythinghappened for a reason and how it
was supposed to happen.
But if I would do it over, Ithink I would spend less time in
the stage of like not having aplan and like plan, have a plan
sooner.
Like I think what happens whenpeople transition is they're, or
wanting to transition is they'relike, I gotta action, action,
(28:50):
action, action this.
And it's almost like, likemeaning like they gotta have a
conversation or they gotta dosomething on LinkedIn or
whatever, but it's like maybeyou could just sit back for like
a few days or even a week andjust like plan out what, what
you're trying to do.
Like have an action plan, youknow, so like, um, really
research all of the differentjob types that you're interested
in so that you can reallyunderstand like what you really
(29:14):
wanna go into so that whenyou're networking with people
you can really tell them whatyou're looking for so that they
can help you in return.
Um, I think a lot of people,that's a problem, that's a
mistake a lot of people make.
They're very vague in networkingconversations and people are
like, I don't know how to helpyou and I also don't have time
to ask you 10 more questions tofigure it out.
And then also just like, yeah,your plan of action like 10, 10
(29:37):
companies you're looking at,start strategically networking
with those people.
Start commenting on people'sposts.
Like if you're gonna go in thethe LinkedIn way, um, yeah, have
your accomplishments laid out,know your story, be able to tell
it in three, three sentenceslike you said.
Yeah, those are all things thatyou could do like as you're
starting to, to figure this outversus just like randomly not
(30:00):
having a plan and kind of likegoing at it scattered brain.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
Yeah, I completely agree.
I think everything in life,especially looking for a new job
should definitely have a planand it doesn't have to follow an
exact plan, but having looseguidelines really helps you
first understand what you'relooking for and second, make
sure you actually land in whatyou are looking for.
Because like you said, if you'rejust loosely going about
(30:24):
commenting or applying or withno intention, you're gonna get
the same sort of reaction backbecause whatever you do in life,
the energy you put in is theenergy you receive back.
And so I think it's reallycritical, like you said, to be
mindful and really think aboutyour plan of action when it
comes to transitioning into acustomer success role.
(30:45):
And on that, I do wanna keeptalking, but I'm gonna ask the
final question on this topicbefore we transition into
quickfire section.
So for everyone that's listeningto this episode, likely they are
transitioning into customersuccess.
What is your biggest piece ofadvice or kind of your biggest
learning that you'd wanna sharewith our listeners today?
Speaker 2 (31:05):
I would say think about what everyone else is
doing and think about how youcan do the opposite and, and
stand out.
Cuz at one point in my journey Iwas thinking about like, okay,
everyone's applying to jobs likethe standard way and that's like
how we were conditioned, right?
But I was like, okay, I'm gonnado something different and try
to stand out in a unique waysince I don't have the like,
typical background.
(31:27):
Um, and so that really helpedme.
Well I know it's like a uniqueway, but it helped me and it ma
helped me learn a lot.
Like I got super uncomfortableand found ways to just navigate
the system a little differentway.
And I think making a plan, likeI just said, a super important,
reflecting on it, revising asyou go, but like at least having
some sort of strategy that youfollow so that you're just,
(31:49):
you're not wasting time that youcould be actually making
progress moving and movingforward.
So
Speaker 1 (31:54):
Yeah, I love that and I completely agree and I think
that everyone is unique andspecial in their own way.
No matter how many people areapplying for that job.
How many hundreds, if notthousands in today's market are
applying for that one job?
How can you, you know, bedifferent because you're the
only one, you're the only JulieRader, there might be 10 other
(32:14):
people applying, but how are youdifferent?
And I think that that's supercritical and important to
remember as you, as you sendthat job application.
So thank you for sharing that.
Um, I wanna transition into ourquickfire question round, which
is a challenge for all of myguests to try to answer the next
few questions in one sentence orless.
I'll be honest, I have yet tocome across very many people
(32:35):
that are able to do this, butare you ready to take on the
challenge
Yeah, don't be nervous.
We could do this.
So your first question is, whatdo you think is next for the CS
industry?
Speaker 2 (32:47):
I believe more programs should be put in place
for CS in terms of being able toput more programs in place and
for segments so that like, it'snot all just like one-to-one
touch, it's more like being ableto service people as like a
group and a community and, andbeing able to create programs
for those different segments.
(33:07):
I definitely blew the the onesentence thing, but I wanna be
able to explain that
Speaker 1 (33:12):
That's fine.
Yeah.
But I agree that there isdefinitely more out there when
it comes to customer success,whether it's digital tech, touch
one-to-one, one to many, youname it.
There's a whole different waysthat you can service your
different segments of customers,but I think that you hit the
nail on the head where we're ata point in customer success
where we have to servicedifferent customers based on
different needs.
(33:32):
So Amazing.
Next question is, what is yourfavorite app you cannot live
without?
It can be on your phone or your
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Laptop.
My favorite app is the Notesapp.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
Oh wow.
That's like super basic, but Ican see how powerful that is as
well.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
Yeah, I use it a lot for writing.
Yeah.
Like if I'm on a walk and I'mlike getting ideas and I put in,
uh, a little like few ideas sothat I can write later on,
Speaker 1 (33:56):
I feel the same.
Like I have a note for literallyeverything in life, but I I I
always feel it's underrated thatpeople think like, oh, I can
just quickly jot something down.
But it's like having a notepadright?
Right.
All the time with you.
Amazing.
Next question is, what SASproduct can you not live without
as a customer success manager?
This
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Is super basic, but I cannot live out without Gmail.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
Very true.
We, we cannot do our
But that's, I also, I love Gmailtoo, but both personally and
professionally, I think it's anextremely powerful, uh, email
client.
So yeah, basic but effective.
I love your, your layer answersso far,
The next question is, where isyour favorite place to learn
(34:41):
more about customer success?
Whether it's a book, acommunity, a person, where do
you learn the most?
Speaker 2 (34:46):
I'll say that I just really like learning, well, one
of my favorite books that I'veread so far, and I'm still
reading it through, but onOnboarding Matters by Donna
Webber, was a really good bookthat I like to learn from.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
Yeah, it's a great book and Donna's a great human
being and there's so much inthere about how important
onboarding is in the customerjourney.
So I love that book.
Great recommendation.
And my final question for youtoday is what is your favorite
part of customer success orbeing a C S M?
Speaker 2 (35:11):
I love asking curious questions and being able to like
dive deeper into the customerand really understand their
problems and their, theirdifferent learning about their
unique businesses and just beingable to understand and learn
more about the customer ingeneral, like building that
relationship.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
Amazing.
Thank you so much Julie, forsharing all your insights, tips,
tricks, best practices abouttransitioning into customer
success.
We could honestly keep going cuzI'd love to ask you more and
more, but for time's sake, we'regonna bring this to an end.
But if any of our listeners haveanything more that they have
questions on or curious about orwanna learn more from you,
(35:48):
where's the best place to findyou?
Speaker 2 (35:50):
The best place to find me is LinkedIn, just Julie
Rader.
Yes.
You can search me and I'll be onLinkedIn there.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
Amazing.
And I'll make sure to link thatdown in the show notes.
But thank you again, Julie, foryour time.
I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Thank you so much for having
Speaker 1 (36:01):
Me.
Thank you for listening to theCustomer Success Channel podcast
today.
We hope you learned somethingnew to take back to your team
and your company.
If you found value in ourpodcast, please make sure to
give us a positive review andmake sure you subscribe to our
channel as we release newpodcasts every month.
Also, if you have any topicsthat you would like me to
discuss in the future or youwould like to be a guest on the
(36:23):
podcast, please feel free toreach out.
All my contact details are inthe show notes.
Thanks again for listening andtune in next time for more on
customer success.
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