December 20, 2022 • 35 mins
In this episode, our host Anika Zubair chats with Prashanth Jothi, Customer Success Manager at HubSpot about how to drive customer outcomes based on customer maturity.
The life of a Customer Success Manager (CSM) is never a dull one. Everyday you meet fascinating people, change how businesses operate (normally for the better), and even help a few get out of a hole. Sometimes it can even be a rollercoaster of emotions!
But how can a CSM make sure they are making the most of their precious time? What are the best tactical things a CSM can do today to help their customers? How can they ensure every customer in their portfolio continues to see success? And more importantly, how do you measure that success?
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hello everyone.
I'm your host, Anika Zuber, andwelcome back to the next episode
of the Customer Success Channelpodcast, brought to you by Plan
Hat, the Modern Customerplatform.
This podcast is created foranyone working in or interested
in the customer success field.
On this podcast, we will speakto leaders in the industry about
their experiences and theirdefinitions of customer success
(00:27):
and get their advice and bestpractices on how to run a c s
organization.
Today we are speaking withPrashant Joti, who is currently
a C S M at HubSpot.
His career trajectory intocustomer success has not been
typical, but let's be honest, aunique trajectory into customer
(00:47):
success is normal.
Prior to being a C S M, heworked in product marketing and
as a sales rep, he has workedacross four different countries
and continues to delightcustomers by being a consultant
that focuses on driving customeroutcome based on their maturity.
Prashant shares a lot oftactical tips when it comes to
being a C S M and how toconstantly be proactive with
(01:09):
your customers.
Today we will be chatting allabout his transition into
customer success and how usinghis prior life experiences helps
him build long-termrelationships with customers and
ensure that they're reachingtheir desired outcomes.
Welcome, Bhan to the podcast.
I am super excited to have youhere with us today.
But before we get into today'stopic, can you please tell our
(01:32):
listeners a little bit moreabout yourself, your role at
HubSpot and who it is you are?
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Yeah, thanks for having me, Anika.
I'm a big fan of the, thepodcast, uh, is really stoked to
be here.
Well, well, I'm originally fromIndia, but I've been in a few
countries.
I've gotten the opportunity tokind of work in four different
countries now, and my careertrajectory has really been like
the flywheel, you know, thetrack engage in the light.
(01:59):
So I started off as a productmarketing manager, and then I
moved on to sales.
And then currently I'm a CSM inHubSpot.
I'm based in Dublin at themoment, and I'm looking at UK
and I mid-market.
It's been, it's been good sofar.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Oh my gosh, there's so much there.
I feel like I'm an expat aswell, but four countries is a,
is a lot.
Where have you been?
Where have you lived?
Tell us a little bit more aboutthat.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Yeah, so after India, I actually moved to Singapore
for my masters in internationalbusiness, and then I was there
for around almost eight years.
And then I moved to Moscow for ayear.
Uh, did a, I did a shot gig at astartup, uh, working remotely.
And then I moved to Dublinworking for hubs for, yeah, so
(02:46):
it's been two years now, uh, inDublin.
Have been, yeah, loving it sofar.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Oh my gosh, that's crazy.
Moscow, India, Dublin, it justfeels like you're everywhere,
which is awesome.
But you also mentioned that you,you have quite a diverse
experience when it comes to yourbackground.
You've not traditionally been incustomer success, but this
podcast is of course aboutcustomer success.
Can you tell our listeners alittle bit about what inspired
(03:13):
you to move from that productmarketeer role that you were in,
into customer success?
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Yeah, for sure.
But the, the funny part of thisis that CSM was actually plan B
for me.
Okay.
Uh, so my plan was actuallyafter product marketing.
When I moved to sales, uh, for ashort time, my plan was to go
back to product marketing and Idid interview a couple of times.
I, it just didn't work out Okay.
Uh, so I sat down with mymanager to see where I could
(03:42):
kind of bring my productmarketing and sales skills into
and what role I would enjoy.
And CSM made sense and hubs hasa great culture where there are
healthy internal mobility andgrowth opportunities.
So, so I stepped right in andit's been remarkably, uh,
rewarding.
I really like the strategicconsulting side of the role.
(04:03):
I like to help people and howversatile the role is so I can
literally move back intomarketing or sales or product
anywhere I want if I want to,but not at the currently.
So, so yeah, enjoying it so far.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
I also love how you just mentioned how a lot of your
skills in product marketingtransferred into being the
customer success manager thatyou are today.
I think a lot of people thatlisten to this podcast or that
are in customer success do somelevel of transition, customer
success, has it been coinedcustomer success for maybe more
than 10 years?
So a lot of people have comefrom different backgrounds.
(04:39):
I myself have come from sales,you've come from product
marketing.
What are some of the skills thatyou think transfer from product
marketing or sales, like yousaid, into customer success?
Speaker 2 (04:50):
I think especially sales, I would say Annika is the
strategic consulting and justpicking up that call and giving
a call to the customer, uh, hasbeen really helpful.
And also on the expansion andupselling and cross-selling side
of things has really helped mein my current role.
(05:10):
And HubSpot, considering thatit's a CRM platform, I get to
bring in my marketing and andsales perspective into my
consulting role where customersare trying to align their GTM
strategy with marketing, sales,and customer service.
So I can step in and bring thatperspective and relate to them
(05:32):
and advise a colleague.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
You also have seen a lot of success at HubSpot thus
far.
I know we talked about italready off this call.
What do you think kind ofcontributed to your growth into
your current role and yourcareer progression thus far?
You mentioned you were atstartups before, you're now at
a, at a larger organizationrunning or a C S M there, so
(05:53):
what, what kind of contributedto this career trajectory that
you're on?
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Yeah, so career growth, again, is very, very
personal and his definitionreally differs from person to
person.
So what I did were, two thingsthat I learned from one of my
mentors is, first is reflect onmy goals, whether that's certain
, uh, designation or salary.
And secondly is, you know, getcrisp on what trade offs I'm
(06:19):
willing to make or not inservice of those goals.
For example, you know, differentseasons of life, like single
against, you know, having afamily, like what are the, those
trade offs that I'm willing tomake.
And, and essential part of it isthe company culture, like I
mentioned, you know, HubSpot is,has a great culture with those,
offering those growthopportunities.
(06:40):
So that's key.
And, and secondly, what I didwas having that support, uh,
supported manager, you know,like essentially making them my
advocate and, and also not justmy manager, but other managers
and the other teammates fromdifferent teams as well.
Like make them aware that thisis my goal.
So, so when an open role comesup, like I'm the first person
(07:03):
that they think of, and at theend of it like having a proper
plan, you know, keeping itupdated, working along with the
managers, I'm making sure thatI'm not working on the things
that doesn't actually help me toachieve my goals.
So these are the things that Idid and, and I'm, I'm a big
believer in parentalsprinciples.
I always keep looking for the20% input that results in 80%
(07:26):
output, uh, whether it'sprofessionally, personally, and,
and that's really what's kept megoing, uh, so far on the growth
progression.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
I love how you've talked about career trajectory
as a customer journey as well.
Cause you were just talkingabout having a plan, for
example, and knowing what yourplan is based on, you know, the
milestone of life that you'rein.
So that also comes back tosuccess planning or account
planning.
You also mentioned not onlymaking your main manager your
(07:55):
advocate, which could be yourchampion in a customer call, but
also multiple managers, whichcould be if you have multiple
champions.
So I do love how you're applyingyour career trajectory into,
into customer success.
I love it.
Before we get into today'stopic, which I, I'm really
excited to talk to you about,you made some big leaps and, um,
changes in your life movingabroad, being one of them,
(08:18):
living from startups to, tolarger organizations, moving
from product sales to customersuccess.
What are some of your learningsor, you know, what are some of
the big moments that you're, youknow, happy to share with our
listeners?
Or are there any regrets of, ofmoving abroad from your side?
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Yeah, so it's always lovely to chat with another
fellow expat Anika.
And so like I mentioned, likeoriginally from in India, moved
to these, uh, differentcountries.
So one of the main motivatorsfor me was I was really eager to
learn other cultures and, andreally experience new countries
and, and living the expat lifebrings you to find out parts of
(08:53):
your personality, you know, knowthat could easily have remained
dominant is probably one of themost rewarding experiences one
can have.
But one of the main things thatI learned is very precious is
opportunity to cultivate freshperspective.
You know, living abroad brings anew perspective of yourself and
the life around you, the changeof pace and the quality of life
(09:16):
depending on where you move to,can really equip you with brand
new you.
And on top of that, you'reputting yourself into a brand
new world into the unknown.
So what, no matter whatprejudice you had about the
world before you moved, you'llnow have gained a totally new
perspective on the situation.
So that has been a great journeyso far.
And, and it's not sunshine andrainbows, uh, throughout, I'm
(09:39):
sure you can relate to it.
It's lonely at first.
And the downside really is beingaway from family and friends.
So for example, like I have aone year old and because of
covid travel restrictions, I hadto miss his first birthday.
I couldn't be there for him.
So that was heartbreaking, but Isurvived somehow.
But overall, I, I highlyrecommend people to experience
(10:01):
that if they get an opportunity.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Yeah, I completely agree.
And I can resonate with a lot ofwhat you've just said about
being an expat missing moment,but also shaping who you are and
how you actually look at lifevery much is a combination of
your experiences in thedifferent countries that you
have lived in.
And funny enough, I think that alot of what you said, being an
(10:23):
expat means being resilient intimes and also having to pivot
when things aren't going exactlyas planned, which again comes
back to being a customer successmanager as well.
I think you have to be resilientin customer success, and you
definitely also have to pivotif, for example, your customers
aren't doing exactly what youwere expecting or aren't getting
as much value as you would hope.
(10:44):
So I do love how a lot of your,your personal story ties in so
well to being a customer successmanager, which is exactly what
we're we're talking about today,really.
How do you drive customeroutcomes and based on your
customer portfolio that you'reworking on and their maturity,
you share a lot on LinkedInabout tactical things customer
(11:04):
success managers can do day today.
Based on your experience, whatare some of the best tactical
things A C S M can do today tohelp their customers?
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Yeah, that's such an interesting question, Anika,
like I was having a thinkerabout this and, and right now in
the current climate, I thoughtlike two things that comes that
I've been experiencing in mybook of business, and I'm sure a
lot of the other businesses aswell are those cancellation
requests coming in.
(11:36):
And, and two of the main reasonsthat I see are mergers and
acquisition mna, uh, you know,the challenging macroeconomic
climate are the two main reasonsfor those cancellation requests.
So, so what CSMs, you know,while, while m and a are a part
of business and not directly inour control, you know, uh, CSMs
(11:57):
can definitely take a lead inunderstanding the nature of the
merger and acquisition and, andmaking the business case for
your products continued, uh,usage.
So essentially trying to getahead of the m and a in your
book of business, for example,you know, and, and some of the,
some of the signs that mayindicate an acquisition in my
(12:19):
experience has been maybethere's a drop in portal usage,
maybe there's, has beenunassigned, you know, uh, seats.
The customer hasn't been usingthe product as much, the
customer request a review of thecontract, for example, change of
decision maker, poc, et cetera.
So keeping an eye on thosethings to try to stay ahead of a
(12:45):
possible m and a is, is reallycrucial.
And, and we can do, we can takea few proactive steps to
identify m as some of those arepretty straightforward.
For example, you know, Googlenews alerts for a set of
customers, you know, settingperiodic tasks to search the
company on Crunchbase, you know,of course there's LinkedIn,
(13:06):
following them on LinkedIn,working closely with the
contract managers to be on topof, you know, a, a possible m
and a is the options that we canoffer the customers.
And I totally understand thatthis is not realistic to do for
all of all of our customers, butthese strategy could, could help
you proactively manage the m anda for a sub segment of your
(13:27):
customers.
You know, often a lot of myteammates do this for their top
10 Mr.
R customers, for example, intheir funnel, you know,
companies that they know have aglobal presence and, and smaller
, uh, or mid-size companies thatare not as sticky.
So these are some of the waysthat we can tactically and
proactively stay ahead of thoserequests coming in.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Definitely, and I love that there's a lot of those
pieces that you just shared areabove and beyond the tool set
that you normally use within acustomer sales management, for
example, a lot of times you'rejust looking at their usage data
or the number of emails they'resending you or logins or
everything that you'vementioned, but you were just
saying, going above and beyond,falling on LinkedIn, Crunchbase,
(14:11):
all those other bits where youcan be a little bit more
proactive to watch what'shappening with the company.
You mentioned macroeconomics andthe changing world, which is
really, really relevant rightnow and quite a hot topic as we
go into not so stable of aneconomy.
Are there any signs that youlook for within your book of
(14:32):
business for companies thatmight be struggling?
Or are there any tactical piecesthat you are doing to be
proactive when it comes tocompanies that are possibly
struggling and, and gettingahead of that churn that you
just mentioned?
Speaker 2 (14:46):
It's very similar to the MNA in that sense, Anika.
And one thing that I've beendoing is, is I have a list of
questions where I bring those upduring my conversation.
For example, you know, justbeing bold and asking like, Hey,
has the macroeconomic climatebeen a topic of conversation at
(15:06):
the company?
What trends are you seeingthroughout this conversation and
et cetera.
So just bringing those up duringmy conversations on top of the
proactive work that I'm alreadydoing.
But one thing that I would liketo kind of highlight and flag is
being proactive is great, but wehave to remain proactive without
causing panic in the currenteconomic environment, you know?
(15:30):
Yeah.
For example, you know, matchingthe customer's energy, for
example, if they seem stressedabout the macroeconomic climate,
like let them lead theconversation.
And if, if they seem comfortablewith that topic, you know, we
can go ahead and ask thosediscovery questions that are
mentioned.
And secondly, like, I like tostart at very high level without
(15:51):
assuming they'll need to lowercosts.
For example, you know, forinstance, perhaps you using an
open-ended questions, you know,how is your company navigating
the microeconomic climate?
And of course, like doing myresearch based on the proactive,
uh, ideas that I mentioned.
You know, spend timeinvestigating the industry, how
that industry is being impactedby the, by the market.
(16:14):
And, and this essentially willallow you to be, uh, more
thoughtful and show empathytowards the customer.
And, and, and last but not leastis ensuring these conversations
are customer centric rather thanyour product centric.
Like, like the goal is really tolearn more so, so I can support
(16:34):
them.
And the goal isn't solely tolearn more about the renewal
intention or growth potential.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
I loved hearing all of those pieces super critical
to keep your customer at thecenter of everything.
Like you said, we day to day, wehave business outcomes that we
as customer successprofessionals are trying to
reach, but at the end of theday, it's about your customer
and, and what they're feelingand how they're going through.
And I think some of the tips youjust shared about being able to
read the room or understand thetonality of your customer's
(17:03):
voice and actively listening towhat they have to say rather
than causing panic can be very,very helpful.
So I love that, actually, that'ssuper important to remember when
you are speaking to yourcustomers.
Um, speaking of your customers,you did mention you are a
mid-market customer salesmanager at HubSpot.
Can you tell us a little bitmore about your book of
(17:25):
business?
How do you service thesecustomers?
What sorts of call, what are youdoing with your customers
day-to-day to make sure they're,they're reaching their, their
desired outcomes?
Speaker 2 (17:34):
So I look into, my segment is UK and Ireland
mid-market.
So in my book of business I havecurrently, I just checked in the
morning, it's around 113customers and our usual call
cadence Anika is bimonthly.
So that kind adds up to quite afew calls.
Yeah,
Speaker 1 (17:52):
That's busy, busy
Speaker 2 (17:54):
.
So my day-to-day is a mix of,you know, uh, 80% proactive, I
would say, and 20% reactivework.
And we have a lot of autonomy inmanaging our book of business
here at HubSpot.
So the proactive work wouldinclude anywhere between three
to five schedule deep divemeetings every day with
customers and to review theirprogress, uh, make strategic and
(18:14):
tactical recommendation and, andkeep them update with the, with
the latest and relevant featuresfrom UPS.
And, and the reactive works, asyou know, it runs the gamut, uh,
from questions about invoices tohow do questions escalations,
everything.
We actually have, when youmentioned about the different
calls that we have, we actuallyhave different teams that
(18:36):
overall covers most of thedifferent calls that we interact
with our customers.
So there are essentially sixtype of calls that we, uh, that
we have.
So first is introductions andaccount planning, then is
product activation and strategyupsell and cross-sell value
demonstration, renewalpositioning, and difficult
(18:58):
conversation, which I'm not abig fan of.
But yeah,
Speaker 1 (19:01):
, thanks for
telling us a little bit more
about kind of what you're doingday in the life of A C S M.
I think a lot of peoplelistening can relate to the 80%
being as proactive as possible,but there is that firefighting
that we all inevitably do.
But good to hear that themajority of your time is on
these types of calls, like youjust mentioned, and, and
building that rapport with yourcustomers.
(19:21):
I think it's awesome that youhave these milestones of calls
that you're having from accountplanning all the way to renewal
or even difficult conversations,but maybe for those people who
are either building customersuccess or not too sure what a
product activation call is, canyou just give us a little bit of
background of what happens in,in that call and what type of
(19:42):
customer is joining that call?
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Yeah, for sure.
So product activation call, uh,Annika is, is the most common
type of call for a CSM here.
So it typically happens everysix to 10 weeks, I would say,
depending on your segment.
And essentially after theintroduction and account
planning call.
So you would essentially checkin on how the customer is
(20:05):
executing on the high levelgoals from the initial call and
then, uh, spend the bulk of thecall helping the customer drive
adoption of a new tool thatsolves business challenge for
them.
So the outcome of this call isessentially to reconfirm
business goals and, and driveexpanded adoption of our HubSpot
tools to support the customer'score business operation and
(20:28):
really make them, essentiallymake them HubSpot implementation
stick here.
And one of the main bestpractices that we follow for
these calls are, are firstlylike pinpointing customer pain
points and coming prepared withsolutions.
Of course you wouldn't haveanswers to everything, but
having, uh, that differentquestion asking tool and arsenal
(20:51):
on your side to explore all thepain points that they, they
might have and then practiceactive listening.
You know, one of the quotes Irecently heard was one of the
most active thing A C S M can dois listening.
And that's so true.
You know, and, and then shiftingyour agenda based on what you
listen to and based on thecustomer responses.
(21:12):
And of course like being on thelookout for growth option B.
So that's essentially how weapproach the product activation
call.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Makes sense.
And, and again, sounds prettyfamiliar to probably the
majority of calls CSMs arehaving.
Um, whether you're at a largerbusiness or a smaller business,
doesn't matter, you are tryingto get your customers to get the
most out of your product.
Makes complete sense.
But some of the other calls thatyou mentioned, whether it's, you
know, the upsell or valuedemonstration call and the few
(21:42):
other things that you mentioned,these all happen different
phases of a customer life cycleand different maturity of how
much your customer is actuallyusing your product.
How are you making sure thateven in differing customer
calls, whether it's again theupsell or renewal or whatever,
that you're still drivingcustomer outcomes in each one of
(22:03):
these types of calls?
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Yeah, that's an interesting question, Anika,
like, so what we do on our sideis, is essentially trying to
explore and get that desiredoutcome that the customer want
to start off with another codethat it, it kind of reminds me
of like you can focus onadoption.
I think Lincoln Murphy mentionedthis is you can focus on
(22:26):
adoption, retention, expansionon advocacy, or you can focus on
the customer's desired outcomeand get all of those things.
So I I, I try to see it, try tosimplify it, so as desired
outcome plus appropriateexperience.
So what we try to do is have amonthly progress report.
(22:47):
So for example, if a customercomes in and this was their
desired outcome, uh, outcome andwe created a certain plan, and
then after a quarter, what wasthe progress?
What has the progress been madeat times like, customer wouldn't
be clear on their goal.
So we, we try to, we try to askthem, for example, if you were,
(23:09):
if you were to get promoted in12 months, you know, what would
be the metric that drove that?
So trying to just explore anddiscover that goal and outcome
is essential to start off withand have a proper follow up and
deciding a timeline and budgetin certain cases, after which of
course you can identify thosestakeholders and directly
(23:31):
responsible individuals and, andloop them in, have that growth
top of their mind and, and keepthem throughout their progress.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Amazing.
Which great point about progressreports and measuring outcomes,
cuz that kind of leads meperfectly into the next question
that I do wanna ask you, whichis how are you measuring the
success of a customer?
Like we said, we have our ownbusiness outcomes, things that
we are hoping to get as customersuccess professionals, like you
said, more usage of your, of theHubSpot product.
(24:01):
As you said, your customers havedifferent desired outcomes based
on the time and what productsthey're using from you and you
know, how long they've been acustomer.
So how do you keep measuringsuccess for a customer over time
and what sorts of calls do youhave in order to make sure that
these milestones are beingreached with your customers?
Speaker 2 (24:20):
So in HubSpot, Anika, we use something called growth
framework.
I'll do my best to kinda giveyou a visual description of how
it looks.
Uh, so it essentially is, uh, togrow through the GTM functions
of a business.
So if you start off with thetrack stage, you have the
(24:41):
inbound marketing engage, youhave the inbound sales, and then
you have the delight, customerempowerment, and lastly,
fighting friction, which is thecustomer-centric alignment.
So keeping those in mind, how wemeasure it is based on revenue.
And then moving on to L T V andthen moving on to L T V CAC
(25:04):
ratio.
And last but not least, revenueand GTM employees.
So, so it's, it's one of thebenefit that we have.
We have a tool which kind of,uh, partners with this growth
framework is called GrowthGreater.
So what we do often, uh, timeswith our customer is get on a
call with the customer.
(25:25):
It's essentially a tool that canhelp in, in three key ways, you
know, uh, so firstly it'llprovide you recommendation on
how you can use your currentproduct mix to gain leverage in
your business and then showingyou which areas of your GTM
teams, uh, that have the biggestopportunity for growth.
And last but not least, to helpyou build a roadmap to success,
(25:49):
uh, with uh, HubSpot.
And I do understand that not allthe companies would have these
frameworks or, or tools, but ontop of this we have something
called a lot of growth, but uh,we have something called growth
consulting framework, which isessentially, uh, prepare,
connect, understand, recommend,commit, and act.
(26:10):
So this framework works really,uh, effectively, uh, to, you
know, identify customers, highlevel goals and business
objectives, you know, biggestchallenges on a small and large
scale and, and what I as A C S Mneed to have in order to make
strong recommendation.
So I strongly advise, you know,recommend this growth consulting
(26:31):
framework and working to createa potentially, uh, growth
framework relevant to yourindustry to really, uh, track
those progress, uh, for acustomer.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
I love that.
I think it's super critical forbusinesses, no matter how far
advanced you are in yourcustomer success department, is
to think not only of yourcustomer lifecycle or the time
your customer is with you, butalso the maturity model, which
is exactly what you are justdescribing there with your
growth model.
I think it's super key to havesome level of maturity model of
(27:07):
what your customers are doingwith your product over time.
You mentioned three differentuse cases or at least three that
I heard, and that's supercritical to measure success
based on the maturity thatthey're in and also be a bit
prescriptive to your customers.
Cuz I think sometimes customersdon't know how much they can or
cannot do with your product, andit's critical to be a little bit
(27:27):
prescriptive to your customerssaying, Hey, based on our
maturity and what we've mappedout of most customers doing with
our product, this is kind ofwhere we see you at.
But these are the possibilitiesof other things you can use,
like you said.
So I think it's critical to havethat maturity piece as much as,
as it is to have a segmentedcustomer journey as well.
Um, so thank you for sharingthat, that growth framework.
(27:49):
Super helpful.
I think you have so many tipsand tricks that you share with
the wider customer successcommunity, which is super, super
helpful.
But what is your kind of biggestpiece of advice to a customer
sales manager that wants todrive customer outcomes based on
that maturity model that we'vebeen talking about?
Speaker 2 (28:09):
I would actually start off right in the first
call of the customer with thecustomer time to first value is
so important when it comes toour role.
So every, every customer makesprogress on their own cadence,
on their own schedule, on theirown timeline, Anika as you know,
but we have to set a goal forthem.
(28:29):
So setting that goal, workingwith your customer right off the
bat on the first call is socrucial.
For example, you know, uh, youwould like this segment of
customer to achieve this valuein, you know, X amount of time,
for example, you know, andagain, like they either get
actual value from therelationship with A C S M or a
(28:50):
real value potential in the, inthe product itself.
So starting off with that firstcall and setting up, having that
timeline, that quantitativemeasurement so you can make that
progress report in, in everymonth, every quarter, and show
the effectiveness of your toolto their business and keeping
that momentum essentially.
(29:12):
Uh, the other one I would say iskey stakeholders.
One of the, when I started off,uh, I did a mistake of just how
building that relationship withjust one P O c, which was really
challenging once, for example,they left the company.
Uh, so it was reallychallenging.
So having, making a relationshipwith key stakeholders, with
diverse departments and gettingthat perspective and which will
(29:36):
eventually like help you solvebetter for the customer because
you're getting, gettingdifferent perspective from their
businesses and essentiallydeveloping that accountable
belief from each one of them towrap things up and, and create
that cycle, uh, while keepingthat momentum.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Very good point, because I wanted to ask you is
how are you ensuring that thesecustomers are continuing to see
success at HubSpot?
You mentioned the progresssupport, you mentioned checking
in, you mentioned proactivecalls and you know, value
demonstration calls.
Those are all a lot of thingsthat you know, you're doing as a
C S M, but how do you keep thatmomentum going?
(30:14):
How do you ensure that thesecustomers are continuing to see
success at HubSpot as theybecome more and more mature as a
customer?
Speaker 2 (30:23):
It's just building that accountability.
Annika, for example, I would, Iwould say something on the line,
like based on the discussionwe've had, we have these action
items for your team to beginworking on.
And, and I'll, I'll make surethat I mentioned that I also
have my notes to her follow upon x uh, x things with, uh, with
(30:44):
, uh, the stakeholder, et cetera, designing that timeline and
budget and developing thataccountability and at the same
time using that maturity model.
So, so what we use is for thatgrowth greater that I mentioned,
I frequently ask my customer todo that every six month because
of the progress that they makeand then follow up on the, on
(31:08):
these progresses to make surethat they are, uh, they're aware
of it first of all.
And they know like, okay, you'veachieved this goal and this
timeframe and then what's next?
Like what is the next goal?
And just like keeping up withthat momentum.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
I love that.
I love that.
You also just mentioned everysix months or so you are grading
that maturity level on thatgrowth framework that you're
talking about because sometimeswe get really, you know, stuck
into a renewal, for example, anannual marker of this is when we
should review goals.
But I think a great thing thatyou've just said is you've
constantly keep up to date withyour notes, with your timelines
(31:43):
that you guys have discussedwith your customers, and you're
able to revisit that at anygiven time.
There's no good or bad time.
It's always good to realign ongoals and continue to ensure
that your customer is gettingthose value-based outcomes that
they're, that they're talkingabout or that they have been
talking about.
So love that.
Listen, we could keep chatting,I'm sure we could, but I wanna
(32:04):
get to our quick fire questionswith it, I think you're familiar
with and the strategy behindthis.
But I am going to ask you thesenext few questions and my
challenge to you is to try toanswer them in one sentence or
less.
Are you ready?
Speaker 2 (32:18):
Yeah, I'll do my best.
Danika.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
Okay, let's do it.
My first question is, what doyou think is next for the CS
industry?
Speaker 2 (32:27):
So this one, I think it'll be interesting to see AI
enablement scale in the customersuccess space.
Especially.
I would love to see predictionanalysis, you know, to, to
analyze and forecast data.
So, so I see that happening.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
Awesome.
I agree.
I think that having a little bitmore AI into our data and how we
also, you know, measure and, andlook at that data would be very
helpful.
So completely agree.
The next question is, what isyour favorite app, either on
your phone or your laptop thatyou cannot live without?
Speaker 2 (32:59):
So I'm not sure if you heard of this, Anika, the
five minute Journal.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
Oh, I have.
I I am an active five minutejournaler.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
Oh, yay.
.
So, so I love that.
So I use the app instead of thejournal, the, the hard copy.
So that's like essentially thesimplest way you can do to start
and end your day happier in justlike five minutes.
I know myself.
Uh, so I wanna remove all thefriction and, and make it like
the least time so that fiveminutes is the best for me.
(33:27):
So I've been doing that yeah,every single day.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
I love it.
I love it.
I actually have the, the actualjournal cause I still love
writing physical notes, so, butI recommend that too.
The five minute journal isgreat.
The next question is, what sortof compensation do you think A C
S M should have?
Should it be just a base salaryor a base salary with some sort
of variable commission
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Base?
Uh, plus variable componentbased on the revenue retention
performance for sure, like ontarget variable earnings.
You know, c s CSM shoulddefinitely be re rewarded for
the, for their top performance,you know, uh, you know, because
we commit to, to taking thoseright actions that lead to the
long-term success for customers.
(34:10):
So the reward system definitelyshould align to these actions.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
And my final question for you today is, what is your
favorite part of being A C S M?
Speaker 2 (34:19):
Oh gosh, there's so many Anika, but, uh, I would say
customer relationships, helpingthose people, the versatility of
the role, like I mentioned, andthere's so much growth
opportunities in csm.
So yeah, that's, those are myfavorite parts.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
Amazing.
Thank you so much Foran forsharing all your tips, insider
trade tips I guess, of being aCSM at HubSpot.
If our listeners have any otherquestions or wanna get in touch,
what's the best place to findyou?
Speaker 2 (34:49):
LinkedIn.
I'm every day, all day onLinkedIn.
So yeah, LinkedIn, Han Joti.
Happy to connect with anyone andhave a chat.
All thanks CSM and Sure.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
Amazing.
Thank you so much Rashan.
Really appreciate your time.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
Thanks Anika.
It was lovely to be here.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
Thank you for listening to the Customer
Success Channel podcast today.
We hope you learned somethingnew to take back to your team
and your company.
If you found value in ourpodcast, please make sure to
give us a positive review andmake sure you subscribe to our
channel as we release newpodcasts every month.
Also, if you have any topicsthat you would like me to
discuss in the future or youwould like to be a guest on the
(35:28):
podcast, please feel free toreach out.
All my contact details are inthis show notes.
Thanks again for listening andtune in next time for more on
customer success.
Hello everyone.
I'm your host, Anika Zuber, andwelcome back to the next episode
of the Customer Success Channelpodcast, brought to you by Plan
Hat, the Modern Customerplatform.
This podcast is created foranyone working in or interested
in the customer success field.
On this podcast, we will speakto leaders in the industry about
their experiences and theirdefinitions of customer success
(00:27):
and get their advice and bestpractices on how to run a c s
organization.
Today we are speaking withPrashant Joti, who is currently
a C S M at HubSpot.
His career trajectory intocustomer success has not been
typical, but let's be honest, aunique trajectory into customer
(00:47):
success is normal.
Prior to being a C S M, heworked in product marketing and
as a sales rep, he has workedacross four different countries
and continues to delightcustomers by being a consultant
that focuses on driving customeroutcome based on their maturity.
Prashant shares a lot oftactical tips when it comes to
being a C S M and how toconstantly be proactive with
(01:09):
your customers.
Today we will be chatting allabout his transition into
customer success and how usinghis prior life experiences helps
him build long-termrelationships with customers and
ensure that they're reachingtheir desired outcomes.
Welcome, Bhan to the podcast.
I am super excited to have youhere with us today.
But before we get into today'stopic, can you please tell our
(01:32):
listeners a little bit moreabout yourself, your role at
HubSpot and who it is you are?
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Yeah, thanks for having me, Anika.
I'm a big fan of the, thepodcast, uh, is really stoked to
be here.
Well, well, I'm originally fromIndia, but I've been in a few
countries.
I've gotten the opportunity tokind of work in four different
countries now, and my careertrajectory has really been like
the flywheel, you know, thetrack engage in the light.
(01:59):
So I started off as a productmarketing manager, and then I
moved on to sales.
And then currently I'm a CSM inHubSpot.
I'm based in Dublin at themoment, and I'm looking at UK
and I mid-market.
It's been, it's been good sofar.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Oh my gosh, there's so much there.
I feel like I'm an expat aswell, but four countries is a,
is a lot.
Where have you been?
Where have you lived?
Tell us a little bit more aboutthat.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Yeah, so after India, I actually moved to Singapore
for my masters in internationalbusiness, and then I was there
for around almost eight years.
And then I moved to Moscow for ayear.
Uh, did a, I did a shot gig at astartup, uh, working remotely.
And then I moved to Dublinworking for hubs for, yeah, so
(02:46):
it's been two years now, uh, inDublin.
Have been, yeah, loving it sofar.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Oh my gosh, that's crazy.
Moscow, India, Dublin, it justfeels like you're everywhere,
which is awesome.
But you also mentioned that you,you have quite a diverse
experience when it comes to yourbackground.
You've not traditionally been incustomer success, but this
podcast is of course aboutcustomer success.
Can you tell our listeners alittle bit about what inspired
(03:13):
you to move from that productmarketeer role that you were in,
into customer success?
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Yeah, for sure.
But the, the funny part of thisis that CSM was actually plan B
for me.
Okay.
Uh, so my plan was actuallyafter product marketing.
When I moved to sales, uh, for ashort time, my plan was to go
back to product marketing and Idid interview a couple of times.
I, it just didn't work out Okay.
Uh, so I sat down with mymanager to see where I could
(03:42):
kind of bring my productmarketing and sales skills into
and what role I would enjoy.
And CSM made sense and hubs hasa great culture where there are
healthy internal mobility andgrowth opportunities.
So, so I stepped right in andit's been remarkably, uh,
rewarding.
I really like the strategicconsulting side of the role.
(04:03):
I like to help people and howversatile the role is so I can
literally move back intomarketing or sales or product
anywhere I want if I want to,but not at the currently.
So, so yeah, enjoying it so far.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
I also love how you just mentioned how a lot of your
skills in product marketingtransferred into being the
customer success manager thatyou are today.
I think a lot of people thatlisten to this podcast or that
are in customer success do somelevel of transition, customer
success, has it been coinedcustomer success for maybe more
than 10 years?
So a lot of people have comefrom different backgrounds.
(04:39):
I myself have come from sales,you've come from product
marketing.
What are some of the skills thatyou think transfer from product
marketing or sales, like yousaid, into customer success?
Speaker 2 (04:50):
I think especially sales, I would say Annika is the
strategic consulting and justpicking up that call and giving
a call to the customer, uh, hasbeen really helpful.
And also on the expansion andupselling and cross-selling side
of things has really helped mein my current role.
(05:10):
And HubSpot, considering thatit's a CRM platform, I get to
bring in my marketing and andsales perspective into my
consulting role where customersare trying to align their GTM
strategy with marketing, sales,and customer service.
So I can step in and bring thatperspective and relate to them
(05:32):
and advise a colleague.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
You also have seen a lot of success at HubSpot thus
far.
I know we talked about italready off this call.
What do you think kind ofcontributed to your growth into
your current role and yourcareer progression thus far?
You mentioned you were atstartups before, you're now at
a, at a larger organizationrunning or a C S M there, so
(05:53):
what, what kind of contributedto this career trajectory that
you're on?
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Yeah, so career growth, again, is very, very
personal and his definitionreally differs from person to
person.
So what I did were, two thingsthat I learned from one of my
mentors is, first is reflect onmy goals, whether that's certain
, uh, designation or salary.
And secondly is, you know, getcrisp on what trade offs I'm
(06:19):
willing to make or not inservice of those goals.
For example, you know, differentseasons of life, like single
against, you know, having afamily, like what are the, those
trade offs that I'm willing tomake.
And, and essential part of it isthe company culture, like I
mentioned, you know, HubSpot is,has a great culture with those,
offering those growthopportunities.
(06:40):
So that's key.
And, and secondly, what I didwas having that support, uh,
supported manager, you know,like essentially making them my
advocate and, and also not justmy manager, but other managers
and the other teammates fromdifferent teams as well.
Like make them aware that thisis my goal.
So, so when an open role comesup, like I'm the first person
(07:03):
that they think of, and at theend of it like having a proper
plan, you know, keeping itupdated, working along with the
managers, I'm making sure thatI'm not working on the things
that doesn't actually help me toachieve my goals.
So these are the things that Idid and, and I'm, I'm a big
believer in parentalsprinciples.
I always keep looking for the20% input that results in 80%
(07:26):
output, uh, whether it'sprofessionally, personally, and,
and that's really what's kept megoing, uh, so far on the growth
progression.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
I love how you've talked about career trajectory
as a customer journey as well.
Cause you were just talkingabout having a plan, for
example, and knowing what yourplan is based on, you know, the
milestone of life that you'rein.
So that also comes back tosuccess planning or account
planning.
You also mentioned not onlymaking your main manager your
(07:55):
advocate, which could be yourchampion in a customer call, but
also multiple managers, whichcould be if you have multiple
champions.
So I do love how you're applyingyour career trajectory into,
into customer success.
I love it.
Before we get into today'stopic, which I, I'm really
excited to talk to you about,you made some big leaps and, um,
changes in your life movingabroad, being one of them,
(08:18):
living from startups to, tolarger organizations, moving
from product sales to customersuccess.
What are some of your learningsor, you know, what are some of
the big moments that you're, youknow, happy to share with our
listeners?
Or are there any regrets of, ofmoving abroad from your side?
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Yeah, so it's always lovely to chat with another
fellow expat Anika.
And so like I mentioned, likeoriginally from in India, moved
to these, uh, differentcountries.
So one of the main motivatorsfor me was I was really eager to
learn other cultures and, andreally experience new countries
and, and living the expat lifebrings you to find out parts of
(08:53):
your personality, you know, knowthat could easily have remained
dominant is probably one of themost rewarding experiences one
can have.
But one of the main things thatI learned is very precious is
opportunity to cultivate freshperspective.
You know, living abroad brings anew perspective of yourself and
the life around you, the changeof pace and the quality of life
(09:16):
depending on where you move to,can really equip you with brand
new you.
And on top of that, you'reputting yourself into a brand
new world into the unknown.
So what, no matter whatprejudice you had about the
world before you moved, you'llnow have gained a totally new
perspective on the situation.
So that has been a great journeyso far.
And, and it's not sunshine andrainbows, uh, throughout, I'm
(09:39):
sure you can relate to it.
It's lonely at first.
And the downside really is beingaway from family and friends.
So for example, like I have aone year old and because of
covid travel restrictions, I hadto miss his first birthday.
I couldn't be there for him.
So that was heartbreaking, but Isurvived somehow.
But overall, I, I highlyrecommend people to experience
(10:01):
that if they get an opportunity.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Yeah, I completely agree.
And I can resonate with a lot ofwhat you've just said about
being an expat missing moment,but also shaping who you are and
how you actually look at lifevery much is a combination of
your experiences in thedifferent countries that you
have lived in.
And funny enough, I think that alot of what you said, being an
(10:23):
expat means being resilient intimes and also having to pivot
when things aren't going exactlyas planned, which again comes
back to being a customer successmanager as well.
I think you have to be resilientin customer success, and you
definitely also have to pivotif, for example, your customers
aren't doing exactly what youwere expecting or aren't getting
as much value as you would hope.
(10:44):
So I do love how a lot of your,your personal story ties in so
well to being a customer successmanager, which is exactly what
we're we're talking about today,really.
How do you drive customeroutcomes and based on your
customer portfolio that you'reworking on and their maturity,
you share a lot on LinkedInabout tactical things customer
(11:04):
success managers can do day today.
Based on your experience, whatare some of the best tactical
things A C S M can do today tohelp their customers?
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Yeah, that's such an interesting question, Anika,
like I was having a thinkerabout this and, and right now in
the current climate, I thoughtlike two things that comes that
I've been experiencing in mybook of business, and I'm sure a
lot of the other businesses aswell are those cancellation
requests coming in.
(11:36):
And, and two of the main reasonsthat I see are mergers and
acquisition mna, uh, you know,the challenging macroeconomic
climate are the two main reasonsfor those cancellation requests.
So, so what CSMs, you know,while, while m and a are a part
of business and not directly inour control, you know, uh, CSMs
(11:57):
can definitely take a lead inunderstanding the nature of the
merger and acquisition and, andmaking the business case for
your products continued, uh,usage.
So essentially trying to getahead of the m and a in your
book of business, for example,you know, and, and some of the,
some of the signs that mayindicate an acquisition in my
(12:19):
experience has been maybethere's a drop in portal usage,
maybe there's, has beenunassigned, you know, uh, seats.
The customer hasn't been usingthe product as much, the
customer request a review of thecontract, for example, change of
decision maker, poc, et cetera.
So keeping an eye on thosethings to try to stay ahead of a
(12:45):
possible m and a is, is reallycrucial.
And, and we can do, we can takea few proactive steps to
identify m as some of those arepretty straightforward.
For example, you know, Googlenews alerts for a set of
customers, you know, settingperiodic tasks to search the
company on Crunchbase, you know,of course there's LinkedIn,
(13:06):
following them on LinkedIn,working closely with the
contract managers to be on topof, you know, a, a possible m
and a is the options that we canoffer the customers.
And I totally understand thatthis is not realistic to do for
all of all of our customers, butthese strategy could, could help
you proactively manage the m anda for a sub segment of your
(13:27):
customers.
You know, often a lot of myteammates do this for their top
10 Mr.
R customers, for example, intheir funnel, you know,
companies that they know have aglobal presence and, and smaller
, uh, or mid-size companies thatare not as sticky.
So these are some of the waysthat we can tactically and
proactively stay ahead of thoserequests coming in.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Definitely, and I love that there's a lot of those
pieces that you just shared areabove and beyond the tool set
that you normally use within acustomer sales management, for
example, a lot of times you'rejust looking at their usage data
or the number of emails they'resending you or logins or
everything that you'vementioned, but you were just
saying, going above and beyond,falling on LinkedIn, Crunchbase,
(14:11):
all those other bits where youcan be a little bit more
proactive to watch what'shappening with the company.
You mentioned macroeconomics andthe changing world, which is
really, really relevant rightnow and quite a hot topic as we
go into not so stable of aneconomy.
Are there any signs that youlook for within your book of
(14:32):
business for companies thatmight be struggling?
Or are there any tactical piecesthat you are doing to be
proactive when it comes tocompanies that are possibly
struggling and, and gettingahead of that churn that you
just mentioned?
Speaker 2 (14:46):
It's very similar to the MNA in that sense, Anika.
And one thing that I've beendoing is, is I have a list of
questions where I bring those upduring my conversation.
For example, you know, justbeing bold and asking like, Hey,
has the macroeconomic climatebeen a topic of conversation at
(15:06):
the company?
What trends are you seeingthroughout this conversation and
et cetera.
So just bringing those up duringmy conversations on top of the
proactive work that I'm alreadydoing.
But one thing that I would liketo kind of highlight and flag is
being proactive is great, but wehave to remain proactive without
causing panic in the currenteconomic environment, you know?
(15:30):
Yeah.
For example, you know, matchingthe customer's energy, for
example, if they seem stressedabout the macroeconomic climate,
like let them lead theconversation.
And if, if they seem comfortablewith that topic, you know, we
can go ahead and ask thosediscovery questions that are
mentioned.
And secondly, like, I like tostart at very high level without
(15:51):
assuming they'll need to lowercosts.
For example, you know, forinstance, perhaps you using an
open-ended questions, you know,how is your company navigating
the microeconomic climate?
And of course, like doing myresearch based on the proactive,
uh, ideas that I mentioned.
You know, spend timeinvestigating the industry, how
that industry is being impactedby the, by the market.
(16:14):
And, and this essentially willallow you to be, uh, more
thoughtful and show empathytowards the customer.
And, and, and last but not leastis ensuring these conversations
are customer centric rather thanyour product centric.
Like, like the goal is really tolearn more so, so I can support
(16:34):
them.
And the goal isn't solely tolearn more about the renewal
intention or growth potential.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
I loved hearing all of those pieces super critical
to keep your customer at thecenter of everything.
Like you said, we day to day, wehave business outcomes that we
as customer successprofessionals are trying to
reach, but at the end of theday, it's about your customer
and, and what they're feelingand how they're going through.
And I think some of the tips youjust shared about being able to
read the room or understand thetonality of your customer's
(17:03):
voice and actively listening towhat they have to say rather
than causing panic can be very,very helpful.
So I love that, actually, that'ssuper important to remember when
you are speaking to yourcustomers.
Um, speaking of your customers,you did mention you are a
mid-market customer salesmanager at HubSpot.
Can you tell us a little bitmore about your book of
(17:25):
business?
How do you service thesecustomers?
What sorts of call, what are youdoing with your customers
day-to-day to make sure they're,they're reaching their, their
desired outcomes?
Speaker 2 (17:34):
So I look into, my segment is UK and Ireland
mid-market.
So in my book of business I havecurrently, I just checked in the
morning, it's around 113customers and our usual call
cadence Anika is bimonthly.
So that kind adds up to quite afew calls.
Yeah,
Speaker 1 (17:52):
That's busy, busy
Speaker 2 (17:54):
So my day-to-day is a mix of,you know, uh, 80% proactive, I
would say, and 20% reactivework.
And we have a lot of autonomy inmanaging our book of business
here at HubSpot.
So the proactive work wouldinclude anywhere between three
to five schedule deep divemeetings every day with
customers and to review theirprogress, uh, make strategic and
(18:14):
tactical recommendation and, andkeep them update with the, with
the latest and relevant featuresfrom UPS.
And, and the reactive works, asyou know, it runs the gamut, uh,
from questions about invoices tohow do questions escalations,
everything.
We actually have, when youmentioned about the different
calls that we have, we actuallyhave different teams that
(18:36):
overall covers most of thedifferent calls that we interact
with our customers.
So there are essentially sixtype of calls that we, uh, that
we have.
So first is introductions andaccount planning, then is
product activation and strategyupsell and cross-sell value
demonstration, renewalpositioning, and difficult
(18:58):
conversation, which I'm not abig fan of.
But yeah,
Speaker 1 (19:01):
about kind of what you're doingday in the life of A C S M.
I think a lot of peoplelistening can relate to the 80%
being as proactive as possible,but there is that firefighting
that we all inevitably do.
But good to hear that themajority of your time is on
these types of calls, like youjust mentioned, and, and
building that rapport with yourcustomers.
(19:21):
I think it's awesome that youhave these milestones of calls
that you're having from accountplanning all the way to renewal
or even difficult conversations,but maybe for those people who
are either building customersuccess or not too sure what a
product activation call is, canyou just give us a little bit of
background of what happens in,in that call and what type of
(19:42):
customer is joining that call?
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Yeah, for sure.
So product activation call, uh,Annika is, is the most common
type of call for a CSM here.
So it typically happens everysix to 10 weeks, I would say,
depending on your segment.
And essentially after theintroduction and account
planning call.
So you would essentially checkin on how the customer is
(20:05):
executing on the high levelgoals from the initial call and
then, uh, spend the bulk of thecall helping the customer drive
adoption of a new tool thatsolves business challenge for
them.
So the outcome of this call isessentially to reconfirm
business goals and, and driveexpanded adoption of our HubSpot
tools to support the customer'score business operation and
(20:28):
really make them, essentiallymake them HubSpot implementation
stick here.
And one of the main bestpractices that we follow for
these calls are, are firstlylike pinpointing customer pain
points and coming prepared withsolutions.
Of course you wouldn't haveanswers to everything, but
having, uh, that differentquestion asking tool and arsenal
(20:51):
on your side to explore all thepain points that they, they
might have and then practiceactive listening.
You know, one of the quotes Irecently heard was one of the
most active thing A C S M can dois listening.
And that's so true.
You know, and, and then shiftingyour agenda based on what you
listen to and based on thecustomer responses.
(21:12):
And of course like being on thelookout for growth option B.
So that's essentially how weapproach the product activation
call.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Makes sense.
And, and again, sounds prettyfamiliar to probably the
majority of calls CSMs arehaving.
Um, whether you're at a largerbusiness or a smaller business,
doesn't matter, you are tryingto get your customers to get the
most out of your product.
Makes complete sense.
But some of the other calls thatyou mentioned, whether it's, you
know, the upsell or valuedemonstration call and the few
(21:42):
other things that you mentioned,these all happen different
phases of a customer life cycleand different maturity of how
much your customer is actuallyusing your product.
How are you making sure thateven in differing customer
calls, whether it's again theupsell or renewal or whatever,
that you're still drivingcustomer outcomes in each one of
(22:03):
these types of calls?
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Yeah, that's an interesting question, Anika,
like, so what we do on our sideis, is essentially trying to
explore and get that desiredoutcome that the customer want
to start off with another codethat it, it kind of reminds me
of like you can focus onadoption.
I think Lincoln Murphy mentionedthis is you can focus on
(22:26):
adoption, retention, expansionon advocacy, or you can focus on
the customer's desired outcomeand get all of those things.
So I I, I try to see it, try tosimplify it, so as desired
outcome plus appropriateexperience.
So what we try to do is have amonthly progress report.
(22:47):
So for example, if a customercomes in and this was their
desired outcome, uh, outcome andwe created a certain plan, and
then after a quarter, what wasthe progress?
What has the progress been madeat times like, customer wouldn't
be clear on their goal.
So we, we try to, we try to askthem, for example, if you were,
(23:09):
if you were to get promoted in12 months, you know, what would
be the metric that drove that?
So trying to just explore anddiscover that goal and outcome
is essential to start off withand have a proper follow up and
deciding a timeline and budgetin certain cases, after which of
course you can identify thosestakeholders and directly
(23:31):
responsible individuals and, andloop them in, have that growth
top of their mind and, and keepthem throughout their progress.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Amazing.
Which great point about progressreports and measuring outcomes,
cuz that kind of leads meperfectly into the next question
that I do wanna ask you, whichis how are you measuring the
success of a customer?
Like we said, we have our ownbusiness outcomes, things that
we are hoping to get as customersuccess professionals, like you
said, more usage of your, of theHubSpot product.
(24:01):
As you said, your customers havedifferent desired outcomes based
on the time and what productsthey're using from you and you
know, how long they've been acustomer.
So how do you keep measuringsuccess for a customer over time
and what sorts of calls do youhave in order to make sure that
these milestones are beingreached with your customers?
Speaker 2 (24:20):
So in HubSpot, Anika, we use something called growth
framework.
I'll do my best to kinda giveyou a visual description of how
it looks.
Uh, so it essentially is, uh, togrow through the GTM functions
of a business.
So if you start off with thetrack stage, you have the
(24:41):
inbound marketing engage, youhave the inbound sales, and then
you have the delight, customerempowerment, and lastly,
fighting friction, which is thecustomer-centric alignment.
So keeping those in mind, how wemeasure it is based on revenue.
And then moving on to L T V andthen moving on to L T V CAC
(25:04):
ratio.
And last but not least, revenueand GTM employees.
So, so it's, it's one of thebenefit that we have.
We have a tool which kind of,uh, partners with this growth
framework is called GrowthGreater.
So what we do often, uh, timeswith our customer is get on a
call with the customer.
(25:25):
It's essentially a tool that canhelp in, in three key ways, you
know, uh, so firstly it'llprovide you recommendation on
how you can use your currentproduct mix to gain leverage in
your business and then showingyou which areas of your GTM
teams, uh, that have the biggestopportunity for growth.
And last but not least, to helpyou build a roadmap to success,
(25:49):
uh, with uh, HubSpot.
And I do understand that not allthe companies would have these
frameworks or, or tools, but ontop of this we have something
called a lot of growth, but uh,we have something called growth
consulting framework, which isessentially, uh, prepare,
connect, understand, recommend,commit, and act.
(26:10):
So this framework works really,uh, effectively, uh, to, you
know, identify customers, highlevel goals and business
objectives, you know, biggestchallenges on a small and large
scale and, and what I as A C S Mneed to have in order to make
strong recommendation.
So I strongly advise, you know,recommend this growth consulting
(26:31):
framework and working to createa potentially, uh, growth
framework relevant to yourindustry to really, uh, track
those progress, uh, for acustomer.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
I love that.
I think it's super critical forbusinesses, no matter how far
advanced you are in yourcustomer success department, is
to think not only of yourcustomer lifecycle or the time
your customer is with you, butalso the maturity model, which
is exactly what you are justdescribing there with your
growth model.
I think it's super key to havesome level of maturity model of
(27:07):
what your customers are doingwith your product over time.
You mentioned three differentuse cases or at least three that
I heard, and that's supercritical to measure success
based on the maturity thatthey're in and also be a bit
prescriptive to your customers.
Cuz I think sometimes customersdon't know how much they can or
cannot do with your product, andit's critical to be a little bit
(27:27):
prescriptive to your customerssaying, Hey, based on our
maturity and what we've mappedout of most customers doing with
our product, this is kind ofwhere we see you at.
But these are the possibilitiesof other things you can use,
like you said.
So I think it's critical to havethat maturity piece as much as,
as it is to have a segmentedcustomer journey as well.
Um, so thank you for sharingthat, that growth framework.
(27:49):
Super helpful.
I think you have so many tipsand tricks that you share with
the wider customer successcommunity, which is super, super
helpful.
But what is your kind of biggestpiece of advice to a customer
sales manager that wants todrive customer outcomes based on
that maturity model that we'vebeen talking about?
Speaker 2 (28:09):
I would actually start off right in the first
call of the customer with thecustomer time to first value is
so important when it comes toour role.
So every, every customer makesprogress on their own cadence,
on their own schedule, on theirown timeline, Anika as you know,
but we have to set a goal forthem.
(28:29):
So setting that goal, workingwith your customer right off the
bat on the first call is socrucial.
For example, you know, uh, youwould like this segment of
customer to achieve this valuein, you know, X amount of time,
for example, you know, andagain, like they either get
actual value from therelationship with A C S M or a
(28:50):
real value potential in the, inthe product itself.
So starting off with that firstcall and setting up, having that
timeline, that quantitativemeasurement so you can make that
progress report in, in everymonth, every quarter, and show
the effectiveness of your toolto their business and keeping
that momentum essentially.
(29:12):
Uh, the other one I would say iskey stakeholders.
One of the, when I started off,uh, I did a mistake of just how
building that relationship withjust one P O c, which was really
challenging once, for example,they left the company.
Uh, so it was reallychallenging.
So having, making a relationshipwith key stakeholders, with
diverse departments and gettingthat perspective and which will
(29:36):
eventually like help you solvebetter for the customer because
you're getting, gettingdifferent perspective from their
businesses and essentiallydeveloping that accountable
belief from each one of them towrap things up and, and create
that cycle, uh, while keepingthat momentum.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Very good point, because I wanted to ask you is
how are you ensuring that thesecustomers are continuing to see
success at HubSpot?
You mentioned the progresssupport, you mentioned checking
in, you mentioned proactivecalls and you know, value
demonstration calls.
Those are all a lot of thingsthat you know, you're doing as a
C S M, but how do you keep thatmomentum going?
(30:14):
How do you ensure that thesecustomers are continuing to see
success at HubSpot as theybecome more and more mature as a
customer?
Speaker 2 (30:23):
It's just building that accountability.
Annika, for example, I would, Iwould say something on the line,
like based on the discussionwe've had, we have these action
items for your team to beginworking on.
And, and I'll, I'll make surethat I mentioned that I also
have my notes to her follow upon x uh, x things with, uh, with
(30:44):
, uh, the stakeholder, et cetera, designing that timeline and
budget and developing thataccountability and at the same
time using that maturity model.
So, so what we use is for thatgrowth greater that I mentioned,
I frequently ask my customer todo that every six month because
of the progress that they makeand then follow up on the, on
(31:08):
these progresses to make surethat they are, uh, they're aware
of it first of all.
And they know like, okay, you'veachieved this goal and this
timeframe and then what's next?
Like what is the next goal?
And just like keeping up withthat momentum.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
I love that.
I love that.
You also just mentioned everysix months or so you are grading
that maturity level on thatgrowth framework that you're
talking about because sometimeswe get really, you know, stuck
into a renewal, for example, anannual marker of this is when we
should review goals.
But I think a great thing thatyou've just said is you've
constantly keep up to date withyour notes, with your timelines
(31:43):
that you guys have discussedwith your customers, and you're
able to revisit that at anygiven time.
There's no good or bad time.
It's always good to realign ongoals and continue to ensure
that your customer is gettingthose value-based outcomes that
they're, that they're talkingabout or that they have been
talking about.
So love that.
Listen, we could keep chatting,I'm sure we could, but I wanna
(32:04):
get to our quick fire questionswith it, I think you're familiar
with and the strategy behindthis.
But I am going to ask you thesenext few questions and my
challenge to you is to try toanswer them in one sentence or
less.
Are you ready?
Speaker 2 (32:18):
Yeah, I'll do my best.
Danika
Speaker 1 (32:21):
Okay, let's do it.
My first question is, what doyou think is next for the CS
industry?
Speaker 2 (32:27):
So this one, I think it'll be interesting to see AI
enablement scale in the customersuccess space.
Especially.
I would love to see predictionanalysis, you know, to, to
analyze and forecast data.
So, so I see that happening.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
Awesome.
I agree.
I think that having a little bitmore AI into our data and how we
also, you know, measure and, andlook at that data would be very
helpful.
So completely agree.
The next question is, what isyour favorite app, either on
your phone or your laptop thatyou cannot live without?
Speaker 2 (32:59):
So I'm not sure if you heard of this, Anika, the
five minute Journal.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
Oh, I have.
I I am an active five minutejournaler.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
Oh, yay.
So, so I love that.
So I use the app instead of thejournal, the, the hard copy.
So that's like essentially thesimplest way you can do to start
and end your day happier in justlike five minutes.
I know myself.
Uh, so I wanna remove all thefriction and, and make it like
the least time so that fiveminutes is the best for me.
(33:27):
So I've been doing that yeah,every single day.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
I love it.
I love it.
I actually have the, the actualjournal cause I still love
writing physical notes, so, butI recommend that too.
The five minute journal isgreat.
The next question is, what sortof compensation do you think A C
S M should have?
Should it be just a base salaryor a base salary with some sort
of variable commission
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Base?
Uh, plus variable componentbased on the revenue retention
performance for sure, like ontarget variable earnings.
You know, c s CSM shoulddefinitely be re rewarded for
the, for their top performance,you know, uh, you know, because
we commit to, to taking thoseright actions that lead to the
long-term success for customers.
(34:10):
So the reward system definitelyshould align to these actions.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
And my final question for you today is, what is your
favorite part of being A C S M?
Speaker 2 (34:19):
Oh gosh, there's so many Anika, but, uh, I would say
customer relationships, helpingthose people, the versatility of
the role, like I mentioned, andthere's so much growth
opportunities in csm.
So yeah, that's, those are myfavorite parts.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
Amazing.
Thank you so much Foran forsharing all your tips, insider
trade tips I guess, of being aCSM at HubSpot.
If our listeners have any otherquestions or wanna get in touch,
what's the best place to findyou?
Speaker 2 (34:49):
LinkedIn.
I'm every day, all day onLinkedIn.
So yeah, LinkedIn, Han Joti.
Happy to connect with anyone andhave a chat.
All thanks CSM and Sure.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
Amazing.
Thank you so much Rashan.
Really appreciate your time.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
Thanks Anika.
It was lovely to be here.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
Thank you for listening to the Customer
Success Channel podcast today.
We hope you learned somethingnew to take back to your team
and your company.
If you found value in ourpodcast, please make sure to
give us a positive review andmake sure you subscribe to our
channel as we release newpodcasts every month.
Also, if you have any topicsthat you would like me to
discuss in the future or youwould like to be a guest on the
(35:28):
podcast, please feel free toreach out.
All my contact details are inthis show notes.
Thanks again for listening andtune in next time for more on
customer success.
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