December 22, 2025 • 37 mins
This finale feels less like an ending and more like a graduation ceremony for everyone who has ever cared about Customer Success.
In this closing chapter of the customer success playbook podcast, Kevin Metzger and Roman Trebon look back on a journey that started as a “ludicrous” idea over food and drinks and turned into a global community with nearly 13,000 downloads across countries like Australia, Israel, France, and beyond. They revisit how the show began as a simple networking experiment during a job transition and evolved into a platform for learning, connection, and real human stories behind Customer Success careers.
Kevin and Roman share their favorite guests and moments—from foundational lessons on P&L and value with Dave Jackson, to onboarding excellence with Donna Weber, to conversations about imposter syndrome with Rachel Provan, and the future of AI and agents with Sam Cummings. They talk candidly about fear, courage, and the reality that neither of them knew the first thing about podcasting when they started.
This episode is a reflective, warm, and occasionally cheeky goodbye to the show in its current form—and a clear pivot point toward what’s coming next for both hosts, their careers, and the evolving world of Customer Success and AI.
Detailed Analysis
From a business and leadership standpoint, this episode is a masterclass in experimentation, courage, and community-building.
1. Turning a career transition into a strategic platform
Kevin initially launched the podcast as a networking tool while navigating a job transition. That decision paid off in multiple ways: expanded visibility, deeper relationships, and a strong professional brand. For leaders and CS professionals, this is a powerful example of turning uncertainty into leverage—using content as a strategic asset rather than just a marketing tactic.
Key takeaways for operators and executives:
- Don’t wait for the “perfect moment” to build a platform—build while you’re in motion.
- Treat visibility, networking, and knowledge-sharing as part of your job, not an optional extra.
- Use long-form conversations to deepen trust with your ecosystem (customers, peers, partners, talent).
2. The Customer Success community as a force multiplier
Roman highlights how generous and open the Customer Success community has been—guests freely sharing their time, their expertise, and even their networks by recommending future guests. This is more than feel-good community talk; it’s a blueprint for modern go-to-market.
Business relevance:
- High-performing CS communities create compounding value: better ideas, stronger talent pipelines, and faster pattern recognition around what works.
- Geographic boundaries matter less when you’re connecting through content; an Atlanta-based duo built a truly global audience.
- Investing in community creates resilience—especially in volatile job markets.
3. Learning as a competitive advantage (and a personal operating system)
A recurring theme in the conversation is learning: Kevin’s love for learning, Roman’s reflections on trying new formats, and the way every guest
Please Like, Comment, Share and Subscribe.
You can also find the CS Playbook Podcast:
YouTube - @CustomerSuccessPlaybookPodcast
Twitter - @CS_Playbook
You can find Kevin at:
Metzgerbusiness.com - Kevin's person web site
Kevin Metzger on Linked In.
You can find Roman at:
Roman Trebon on Linked In.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
music (00:02):
They got the game Custom success, their claim to fame on
the podcast.
They like the spark.
Elevating your skills, creatinga mark.
Let's dive deeper into theplaybook.
The secrets they share no needto look from to retention.
(00:27):
They've got all successes thatgo gonna stand tall with each
episode.
They share the views.
Strategies and tactics that youcan use some challenges to try
and stick, helping you navigatewhen you hit a wall.
(00:50):
So tune in now and join Kevin tothe Journey in Success.
With insights and wisdom, you'llbe the best.
Welcome to this.
(01:10):
Special episode of the Customer Success Playbook
podcast.
Today we're closing this chapterof the show and reflecting on
what this journey has meant tous and to the community.
Roman, you know, it's been, it'sbeen a while, uh, that we've
been doing this.
We started in, uh, June of 23.
We launched in June of 23, butwe, uh, got together in March
Kevin Metzger (01:34):
do you remember the, uh, do you remember the
first conversation when thepodcast showed up?
Roman Trebon (01:39):
Well, yeah.
I, I remember the first time youmentioned it to me.
We were, we went to get a, uh, abite to eat and a drink go, uh.
At a local place.
And you, and you raised the ideato me, Kev, about doing a
podcast.
I think you had seen something Iposted on LinkedIn, Hey, you're
interested in customer success?
I was like, yeah.
And you threw out the idea.
(02:01):
And I thought it was, I thoughtit was, uh, I thought it was
pretty ludicrous.
Kev, I'll be honest.
I was like, why would, what apodcast like, Hey, you gotta be
kidding me.
What, what, what, uh, who wouldlisten to it?
Who would come on the show?
I had a lot of, uh, doubt, man.
But it's a super fun ride.
I've, I've loved the, uh, theentire, the entire, uh, process
(02:22):
of working with you, so, okay.
As you said all that, this isour final episode in its current
form, right?
So we're gonna use this episode.
We're gonna do a, a look back onhow we started, what we learned
along the way.
We'll, we'll, we'll do some ofour favorite moments, and, uh,
as we wind it down, we'll talk alittle bit about what's next
for, for both us and, and theshow.
(02:43):
Right.
So, uh, I'm excited to dig intoit.
Kev, let's, let me, let me startout with this.
What, when you, when you readyfor the idea of doing the
podcast, what were you hopingthis podcast would become?
When we, uh, when we, when welaunched it?
Kevin Metzger (02:57):
Yeah, you know, I knew I was gonna be entering
into a job transition phase andI think my, my first kind of
hope was alright, you know, donea lot in customer success, but I
wanna kind of get my name outthere so that I could use it as
a networking tool.
And I really, I, I think thatwas my initial kind of thought
process was, hey, this couldjust be a great tool for
(03:19):
networking.
To be honest, I mean, it, it, itwas like we've met so many
amazing people over, over thelast couple years doing this.
Yeah.
Getting to interview people andgetting to have conversations.
Yeah.
And so I, I think that was myfirst, my first thought, my
first, uh, first reasoning ondoing it.
(03:40):
How about you?
What, what you think you want?
Yeah.
Roman Trebon (03:45):
I don't know if I had any expectations ke i, I i,
that we would last more than twoepisodes, that we get anyone to
listen to us.
I, I think I had pretty, um,loudest standards when we, when
we went into it, but you know,like you said, it was, we got,
you know, I think when we reallysat down and got serious about
it, we had outlined like goalsfor us and, and I think they
were collective goals.
(04:05):
Uh, you know, and they were.
Keep honest.
You're like, learn.
Yeah.
Keep learning.
Right?
There's so much to learn incustomer success.
It's a broad definition, so tryto learn and soak in as much as
we can from, from experts in thespace, grow our network, which
you mentioned like I, it's beenamazing how many awesome people
we've met.
And you know, I, I don't know ifit's, I don't know if this is
(04:26):
specific to customer successcommunity, but I find the people
amazing, right?
Like everyone in it is just.
Uh, so giving with their time,their knowledge, always willing
to help out when needed.
I, I just find it a verywelcoming, I, I, I found it and
still find it a very welcomingcommunity.
And so, you know, our, ournetworks have grown and we've
(04:47):
got to meet so many greatauthors, CEOs, you know, people
have been coming in the CSspace.
We've, we've really run thegamut, uh, which has been great.
And then, you know, really, Ithink the third and, and
probably least important, whichjust like, like kind of grow our
personal brand.
I don't know if that's helpedthe non cap.
I think the first two instructorwere so successful in my mind
(05:08):
that, you know, I, I personallyfeel rewarded, which is, you
know, I think the ultimatemeasure of success with this
thing.
Kevin Metzger (05:15):
Yeah, I, I, I gotta agree with that.
The, I I, I spent a coupleminutes to go look at a few
statistics before, uh, before wesat down today.
I've had almost 13,000 downloadsof the podcast over, over the
last two and a half years,which, yeah, I, I guess in the
(05:38):
scale of internet things, maybeit's not a lot, but you know,
we, we talk to 13,000 people,uh, yeah, who've heard our
conversations and participatedand really thought about.
Customer success and, and maybeit's not 13,000 individuals, but
people wanted to hear us.
13,000 dimes.
That's, that's kind of, I don'teven know how, like that's an
(06:02):
amazing feeling.
13,000 people.
I, I couldn't reach 13,000people without doing this.
Roman Trebon (06:09):
Absolutely, absolutely.
And not just, you know, thenumber Australia, Israel,
France.
You, it's like it's all over theworld.
C it's, it's a, like people allover the world have downloaded
an episode and taken a listen.
Like it, it's amazing when youlook at the country stats too,
it's like, you know, you and Ilive down the street in Atlanta,
(06:30):
but our, our, our community hasgotten so much bigger through
the podcast.
Right.
Which is, it's just, uh,amazing.
Kevin Metzger (06:37):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So let's, did wanna take acouple minutes to kinda reflect,
you know, what are a coupleguests that you.
Really found memorable.
Roman Trebon (06:49):
Yeah.
We've had so many amazingguests, Kevin, I'll be honest,
I, I, in prep, I went throughour episodes and it's so many,
I'm like, oh, that was a greatepisode.
That was a great per I love thatconversation.
Like there were so many of'em.
I, it's really, you know, I, Idid get a sense of, um, you
know, just an appreciation forthe podcast, Kev.
(07:09):
Once I, I kind of went back andlooked at, at, at, at what we
did, uh, in terms of the guest,I, I couple to stick out, right?
I really loved our interviewwith Donna Weber.
I, I just thought, well, youknow, she wrote the book,
onboarding Matters to me.
It's still sort of like thebabble of onboarding.
Like, I have the book, I pull itout from time to time.
I, I still reference it, right?
I just, uh, she has greatcontent that I still follow, so.
(07:33):
Just to get, just again, thatwas someone I didn't think we'd
get.
Kevin, like, why is she gonnajoin the show?
She, she was amazing.
She was awesome.
So I, I not only learned a lot,I've been able to apply that,
you know, at my organizationand, and it's been, uh, that,
that's been a real one thatsticks out.
The, the other one is, uh,Rachel Provin.
You know, we, we had an episodeabout imposter syndrome co.
(07:56):
And I just really want, youknow, like if you, if you're
like, what does impostersyndrome have to do with
customer success?
I, I think it actually has to doa lot.
It's just for any professional,right?
It's something that I've, I'vehave dealt with, and especially
for those in the job markettoday, right?
I, I think sometimes we can selflimit ourselves and I think
having Rachel talk through that,Rachel works with people day in
(08:18):
to day out to findopportunities, opportunities in
the customer success space.
I really liked that episode aswell.
I thought that was a little bitdifferent than our traditional
episodes, but I, uh, I enjoyedit.
How about you, Kev?
What, what?
Any any shows or guests thatjumped out for you when you,
when you reflected back?
Kevin Metzger (08:35):
Yeah.
You know, I was thinking aboutit and, um, yeah.
First, I, I mean, actually firstcouple actually come from our co
first couple episodes.
I mean, just having Dave Jacksonas our first guest.
He, you know, CEO verysuccessful Right.
(08:55):
Just willing to come talk to us.
Um, also out of, out of England,right?
Outta Europe.
Yep.
So that was, that was cool.
And then really the, it's funny,I mean the, the lessons about
from him about revenue, about.
Understanding what the value ofyour service is in, in, in
(09:18):
context of a company, right?
How do you make sure that youare providing a service that's
providing benefit to thecompany?
If you're not doing that, thenare you really being successful?
Yeah, I,
Speaker 2 (09:29):
it,
Kevin Metzger (09:29):
it, it was a great first lesson for me,
right?
To, to just have,
Roman Trebon (09:34):
and, and I would say if you're now just listening
to our show and you've notlistened to all the other
episodes.
Dave Jackson set the toneunintentionally ke for like the
entire podcast.
He started with p and l and it'sso important and if you
understand your p and l and, andand, and the value you bring to
the organization, everythingelse comes out.
You know, it was, we didn't planthat.
(09:56):
I wish we planned it that way,but it just worked out that way.
Right.
So if you haven't, go back andlisten to Dave.
An amazing episode.
I completely agree, man.
We lucked out with that one and,and really I think you could
just put a pin in that and say,you know, start there and then,
and then go through that otherepisodes, watch you listen.
Kevin Metzger (10:14):
Yeah.
So I, I mean I think that wasfantastic.
The other David, David Allen,early on, David's become, David
Allen's become a real mentor tome.
Um, so I'm just veryappreciative of that.
And then.
You know, I'm, you know, I loveAI and, and, uh, Sam Cummings
who was just such a, yeah, Iwent to the gain site in 2024.
(10:37):
I met Sam there and he's justsuch an insightful dude in
really understands ai.
I think he was one of the firstperson people we talked to about
agents and actually agentsworking together.
And so that, I think that helpedexpand my understanding of AI
(11:01):
and how agents can work and howagents can work together, and
some of that, which, you know,it's funny if you, people are
still trying to understand thoseconcepts.
So that was what, July ish of24, I think that we had that
episode.
So
Roman Trebon (11:17):
yeah.
You know, Kev, one of the thingswe, uh, we had talked about in
the kind of the prep is justkind of the, I don't wanna say
behind the scenes, but the stuffthat happened after the show,
right?
Like, you know, we, we if littleinside baseball gear, but we
would get on with our guests andwe would have a little pre-talk
and, you know, and then we'drecord and then we got to talk
to him afterwards.
(11:38):
Anything, uh, stick out to youfrom our kind of.
You know, behind the scenesviews when we stopped, when the
record button was stopped withany of our guests.
Kevin Metzger (11:49):
Well, you know, uh, you mentioned Donna.
Um, uh, Sue is another one.
Both of them were very helpfulin kind of recommending other
guests to come on the show tohelp propel us forward and
people we should meet and talkto.
Uh, and I think that happened,you know, those two in
(12:09):
particular stuck out becausethey really gave a couple of
really good recommendations and,and connections.
But I, that happened over andover again.
So I think that was one of thethings people, you, you
mentioned people being given,people weren't, were giving up
their time.
They were giving up theirinformation, they were giving
other their contacts.
And you're right.
I don't know if it's particularto the space, I don't know, but
(12:32):
it would, it, it made.
What we were trying to do somuch easier.
It made it just flow.
It made us just okay, yeah,we'll just have that next
conversation.
And it, it was really, I, Ithink that How about yourself?
Any, anybody that you saw,
Roman Trebon (12:49):
you know, I love the kind of post wrap up
conversations, right?
Because we would talk aboutwhatever the topic was and then,
you know, we kind of took a deepbreath after, and then we would
just talk about whatever, likeI, a couple things to stick out.
I remember you mentioned DaveEllen, but.
We get off the show, Dave'sshowing us, he makes these huge
Lego builds.
And I'm like, what?
This is insane.
That's awesome.
This is amazing.
(13:09):
I'm like, you gotta send mepictures, right?
Uh, Matt Lama, you know, playingguitar, he's like in a band and
stuff, right?
Like he, you know, he wrote abook and he'd play in this band
and, you know, we would, wewould ask the question, I think,
I can't remember when we startedit, but we would ask our guests
like, Hey, if we came to visityou, you know, what should we
see?
Or where should we go?
Right.
And then people would sharelike, oh, you know, if you ever
(13:29):
come over here, you gotta go tothis place.
Or, you know, I'm about to headon this, you know, I'm about to
go vacation here.
And you just learned about'empersonally, right.
Beyond just whatever the topicwas and Yeah.
And that's the part I reallyliked.
Right.
You got to know him.
And, and I, I hope if you are aformer guest listening, I hope
you had a good time with us.
Right?
Like really, we, our, our goalis if you came on the show, was
(13:51):
to try to make it as easy aspossible and to try to have a
fun time.
I walked away.
I always enjoyed it, man.
Like, I always felt like, ohman, that was, even though I had
some nerves going into eachepisode, when you get through
it, I'm like, man, what a greatguest.
You know, really enjoyed gettingto know him and, and, and I
really valued that.
Kevin Metzger (14:09):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I really, I, you're just,you're speaking to something
that I think, you know, isalways important, personal
connection, but as we keepmoving forward into, into this
new age of ai.
Personal connections are thethings that allow you to know
(14:29):
what's real.
Yeah.
I keep, I keep getting asked bymy daughter, how are we gonna
know what's real?
We know what's real about peoplewe interface with by the people
we talk to.
Um, so I, I find that such a,it's such a nice thing and being
able to have those conversationsand the personal conversations,
and then being able to reach outto people.
(14:51):
You know are real.
Right?
Yeah.
It, wherever they are and havingthose contacts everywhere is, is
it's, it's a, it's amazing.
It's such a good, good thing tobe able to do, to be able to
know people, to be able to talkto people, to be able to learn
from people, to be able to sharewith people.
It's, I, yeah.
(15:13):
In the end, yeah, go ahead.
Roman Trebon (15:16):
No, I, I, no, it's not to tell you off here, but
like when I was, when, you know,I was thinking back on the show,
I, I was, I was constantlyreminded of one quote, which I
really enjoyed.
I think it relates to myexperience doing the show.
It it's life shrinks or expandsin proportion to one's courage.
Right?
And, and that I, I would say,you know, when I went, like I
(15:37):
said, when you asked me to dothis, I, I had all these reasons
why I shouldn't do it.
Right?
All this fear of, you know,rejection or, you know.
We took the plunge, right?
We did it.
We didn't know, we didn't knowanything about podcasting.
I didn't know how to, I barelyknow how to hit the record
button.
Right.
Like I was, you know, and, andwe did show notes and we did
prep, and we talked to peoplewho did it.
(15:57):
And like, we just learnedthrough the process and, and we
reached out to people and, andwe've, like we've talked about
so far, we made so many greatconnections, right?
Our, my world, I, I don't wannaspeak for you, Ken, but I know
your world too.
It's, it's expanded so much.
It's because we had the courageto take the plunge.
Right.
We, it, it expanded because weasked people to come on the
show.
(16:17):
Right.
It expanded because we weren'tafraid to, to give this a shot.
Right.
And so I was just constantlyreminded of that as I was
looking back.
Kevin Metzger (16:25):
Yeah.
I I think that's such a, it'ssuch an important thing.
You know, I've, I've pulledthings over time where I just
don't, I'm just like, just gonnado it.
If you kinda have a high levelidea of what you wanna do, what
your goals are, and then youjust start working towards'em,
right?
It's so easy to get stuck.
It's so easy to get stuck in.
(16:47):
Well, I don't know what's next.
I don't know what to do.
Um, and I remember, I rememberfrom, uh, it's a Tony Robbins
training that I took at onepoint in time.
Um.
Trying to, trying to accomplishbig goals and what, what you
gotta do.
(17:07):
And he was talking about how youtalk to yourself about that
kinda stuff.
And one of the things he's like,well what?
What's the next step?
All you have to do is figure outwhat the next step is.
And he is like, well, and youmight say to yourself, well, I
don't know what the next stepis.
I said, well, tell yourself, ifI didn't know what the next step
was, what would
Roman Trebon (17:26):
it be?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kevin Metzger (17:27):
Yeah.
It's funny because it's, andthen I'll be honest, you know,
so I was like, all right, let'sjust let's, I, I'm a big, I'm
like, I wanna know where I'mgoing.
If I know where I'm going, I, Iwant to plan to get there.
But I'm okay with the fact thatyou got to things spell you.
You're wrong so much of thetime.
(17:47):
Right?
Yeah.
Um, so, okay.
It's okay.
What?
It took me a long time in lifeto learn it's okay to be wrong
about something.
Just fix it and make it rightand keep moving the, the
objective is the goal and gotowards it.
And this was one of thosethings, right?
We started, like you said, withrelatively no knowledge.
(18:08):
I had a little bit, I had playedwith some stuff I, like I said,
I like picking up randomprojects and doing things.
I did the sta the project in2009 where I had recorded a
couple of podcasts as part ofit.
And so I had some idea and whenyou're like, well, how are we
gonna do the tech?
Don't worry about it.
I'll so, because I had playedwith some of the stuff before,
(18:31):
but, but yeah, it's What do youdo?
Do you know where you want togo?
Okay.
What's the first step?
You don't have to know everysingle step in between.
I have a couple ideas where youwant to go.
What are some of the steps?
And then test it.
If it fails, try something else.
And I, I think interestingly, asa personal lesson from this.
(18:54):
That's it works.
Getting the goals, understandingwhere you want to go, and then
figuring out the steps along theway.
You're not a hundred percentsure start, start guessing, and
by the way, having, having youas a partner in this and kind of
thinking through it together,right?
I mean, yeah, yeah.
Team go.
Roman Trebon (19:16):
No, Kev, I would just, I, I, I completely agree,
right?
I, I would say our, myexperience in the podcast, I, I,
is, it, it, it, that, thatdirectly relates to my
day-to-day job, right?
Know what the goals are.
Just take the first step, try sosomething iterate.
You're gonna fail.
It's okay.
Like I think back on thepodcast, Kev, we started with
(19:37):
just you and I talking right?
Then we had guests on.
And then we did recap showsafter the guest.
Right.
We tried that for a while.
We, then we had, we've had AI doshows, you know, like ai Kevin
and AI Roman did a show.
We've done many episodes.
We've done special EPIs, likewe've tried a bunch and we've
(19:57):
tried stuff with the format ofthe show.
We've tried stuff with how we'vereached out.
We tried stuff with how you andI work.
We always knew what we weretrying to achieve.
Right?
The same goals we outlinedearlier, and we just iterated,
right?
We just took the next actionand, and some things we loved
and it worked and we kept itlike the, like the, the, the,
the show questions for theguests, like the personal
questions.
We put it in there, it stuck.
(20:18):
We tried other stuff like therecaps.
It didn't stick.
It was okay, you know, but wetried it and you're not gonna
know until you try it.
And, and I can take that andrelate it right back to the job.
Right?
You know what we're trying todo, right?
Like in customer success.
Grow revenue, right.
Retain customers, right.
I know the goals.
How do we get there?
Well, let's try stuff, you know?
You know, let's, and again,working as a team, getting up,
(20:41):
being open to ideas and youknow, so that has been a big
takeaway for me is I actuallygot to use something in my
personal life that I can nowincorporate into my work life as
well.
Kevin Metzger (20:52):
Yeah.
Fantastic.
Fantastic.
So let's talk about, let's talkabout, you know.
We decided we've gotta end, endthe show.
There's obviously reasons forthat, let's say.
I mean, and, and, and they'regood actually.
All of them are good reasons,right?
We've got, we've both gottenbusy with various things.
Um, yeah.
(21:12):
And so Roman, I mean, what, whatis it, what's taking your time
these days?
Yeah, for sure.
These days for sure.
And, and wherever you've grownto.
Roman Trebon (21:20):
Yeah.
So I, I, I, so I'm reallyexcited, Kevin, and, and, and
again.
As much fun as the show, as youand I know, it wasn't like we
just ruled the, you know, wejust ruled this out each week
and, and you could just recordand, and do the fun part of the
interview.
It, it was a lot, there was alot of work and a lot work time
and Yep.
It, it adds up.
And so, you know, right now I'mat a company called Teams Plus
(21:42):
we, a, a communication as a, acommunication platform as a
service, right?
So voice messaging, e you know,any communication channels.
We have a carrier grade network,have.
Uh, we, we are layering on kindof, you know, you choose your
own platform, but then we layeranalytics, AI on top of it,
(22:02):
deeper insights, and we'rereally pivoting our company from
like a reseller, like an oldschool reseller, to this really
kind of open AI analytics ledcommunication platform.
And it's been an excitingchange, but you know, with that
change becomes moreresponsibility, more, more work.
Fun stuff, Kev.
Again, I'll, the beauty of it isI can take what we've learned
(22:27):
from this show and apply it to,to my, to my day-to-day job.
Right.
And a lot of that stuff, Kev,like onboarding with Donna,
specific to onboarding.
But you know, the, the lessonswe learned across all of our
guests apply in so manydifferent areas.
Not just work, but likeday-to-day life as well.
Right.
And I think I'm excited to takethose lessons we've learned and,
(22:48):
and apply, keep applying them.
As, as Teams Plus grows.
It's an exciting time, Kevin,you know, again, when you're,
when you're a company that'sgrowing and, and something's
every day there's something new,I enjoy that.
And, and yeah, we, we, we are,uh, we're really excited for
where we're headed and, and I'm,I'm excited for, you know, where
my growth will lead within,within that journey as well.
(23:11):
I'd love to know, Kevin, you,you have a lot going on, right?
Uh, I, I, I don't wanna, I don'twanna, um.
You know, maybe sway your, whereyou start with this answer, but
you're wearing the Kennesaw AlJersey.
I didn't see any Kennesaw AlJersey gear two years ago when
we started this.
What, okay, let's start there.
Kevin Metzger (23:30):
Yeah, sure.
Well, first off, I've got twokids at Kennesaw, uh, that's
expect
Roman Trebon (23:37):
Sure, sure.
I'm leading the question.
I'm leading the question.
Kevin Metzger (23:41):
Yeah, we, and, and, yeah, we've got the, we're
recording this beforechampionship weekend.
We got conference USAchampionship weekend coming up.
But yeah, I, I, last summer Istarted having conversations
with Kenne.
Saw about doing some work withthem and actually being a
(24:01):
teacher there or a professorthere.
So, uh, gone through theprocess.
I am going to.
Starting in the spring,actually, it's a long process to
get into owning a class.
So the fall, I'll own a class inthe spring semester.
I'm gonna be a teacher assistantfor a graduate level class, a
(24:24):
FinTech graduate level taskclass, which is super exciting.
We're gonna talk about structureof finance and what Syntech is
today, the hardware or softwarerelated to.
FinTech and then go into Bitcoinor, well, not Bitcoin, but the
blockchain.
Yeah.
(24:45):
And, and all that.
And honestly, I'm super excitedabout it because it's not an
area that I have a ton ofexperience in, but the professor
who's leading this, the docdoctor who's leading the class
is, is just an expert in thearea.
And I'm gonna get theopportunity to not only
participate and help withgrades.
(25:07):
Reading papers and participatingin the discussion for it.
It's such a, it's like anopportunity for me to learn
about new subjects and if theone thing that is a constant in
my life, things that learn, leadto doing something like this,
lead to everything is I love tolearn.
Learning is like just, and, andso you're gonna get paid to
(25:31):
actually go take graduate levelclass and, and, and learn.
As well as help out and reallyhelp, help help students, uh, in
this particular case.
And then, you know, when I doget into having the class of my
own in the fall, uh, I, I'm, I'mjust super excited about it.
So it's a part-time thing, butit, it's, it's something that
I'm, I'm very excited about.
Roman Trebon (25:52):
Well, I, I am looking forward to my Kennesaw
AL'S toss cap that you'll bebringing over here soon.
So I'm excited for that.
But for those who don't knowthough, I, I, I will say this
and I don't just say this kept,'cause you're gonna be teaching
there.
Kennesaw State's in Atlanta.
You may, if you're listening tothis and you're not in the
Atlanta area, you may not knowit as well what they are doing
at Kennesaw State.
(26:12):
I am, I, I am a huge fan ofsales operations courses,
customer success FinTech.
They are, they are, in myopinion, is like the new
generation of university wherethey are meeting the need of the
market.
They're just not traditional.
Like, here's your accountingclass, da da da.
They bring in expertise in thatspace and teach the kids that
(26:35):
are gonna really, you know,really help enable them when
they go into the workforce.
I've been really blown away by,that's why I'm excited to have
you participate over there aswell and, and look forward to
hear more.
But that's how you have ke Yougot the, don't, don't just stop
here because I, you got a lotmore than that.
Kevin Metzger (26:54):
Well, I mean, so like I said, I was, or earlier
on, I mentioned when we startedthis, I was looking to do
networking because I knew I'd bein job transition and I, I spent
a lot of last year in jobtransition, but I also spent a
lot of time learning.
Um, and so I, I do, so I, I,I've got a kind of full-time
(27:14):
role where I'm doing consultingin the supply chain space.
As well as I've also startedyour AI assistant guy, which is
basically an AI trainingprogram.
So I've got a couple oftraining.
By the time this comes out,we'll, we'll actually have the
first standardized training kindof offering up.
(27:34):
It'll be cohorts of 20 peoplethat you know, can come and
really learn.
It's what I, so one of thethings that I've been doing over
the last couple, since Septemberof 23, actually.
Was training in local job, uh,networking on how to use AI as
part of your job search.
And one of the things I'velearned is there's a lot of
(27:57):
people that are trying to learnhow to use ai and so this is
really a fundamentals coursewhere people who really maybe
haven't used it very much yet,or who have, but don't really
understand how to benefit fromit or work and how to use it.
It's gonna be a fundamentalskill going forward.
(28:17):
And so this is really taking youfrom, you know, if you don't
know anything, it's gonna be agreat course to start with and
we'll take you to kind of reallyusing it at a master's level,
understanding how to use it inyour job.
So that's, that's, uh, theoffering through there.
And yeah, in addition, whilethis version of the Customer
(28:41):
Success Playbook is going to.
Done.
I I, and this is still slightlyup in the air as far as where
we're going ex exactly yet, butI do want to keep doing
interviews with people.
I want to focus on experts inthe AI space going forward, but
(29:02):
we'll still keep a focus oncustomer success.
And really the consulting I dois in supply chain, so we're
gonna look at that too andbring, you know, supply chain
and customer success and AItogether.
Kind of in that next iteration.
It may stay under the samebrand.
It may come under the u AIassistant guide.
That's, that's still notfinalized.
(29:22):
But I'm excited about it and Ireally have some, like we've
talked about targeting big, bignames and big people.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, and growing, and I, I, I, Ihave some aspirational folks
that I really would like tointerview because.
You know, this space in, in AIis super interesting and there
are a lot of big thinkers on it.
(29:44):
Um, I don't know, I I, I'mhesitant to name anybody.
Roman Trebon (29:49):
Speak it into existence.
Kev, speak it into existence.
Gimme at least one here.
Kevin Metzger (29:54):
Yeah, I
Roman Trebon (29:54):
I'm gonna give you two.
Kevin Metzger (29:56):
Alright.
Uh, one is, and both of themI've had interactions with in
the past in one way or another.
So, Igor PNI is currently.
He was a guy who, one of thereasons I did that five on AI
in, uh, in June of 23.
And actually the, the biggestreason I stopped is'cause we had
(30:18):
already started on doing thisand this was the commitment
first.
But one of the other reasons Istopped was Igor and a couple
other guys, Matt Berman, mapWolf, the three of them were
just on top.
This AI thing and producing at alevel that I was like, these
(30:39):
guys are awesome.
I'm just gonna follow them andlearn from them for the next
couple years.
But I really, I hope to talk tothose three.
I, I, Igor specifically, I, I'vebeen taking a class from, and
I'm hoping that I'll, I'll beable to get the opportunity to
in interview him.
And then the other guy who I metback when I did the Advocate
(31:00):
project briefly, and I saw himspeak once and then I went to
book signing.
He did and chatted with himthere.
I've chatted with him onlineover the years a couple times is
Gary Vaynerchuk and I, I think Imentioned to you that I, I'd be
interested in talking to him.
This guy is just obsessivelycustomer focused, obsessively
(31:22):
business focused, obsessive,but.
He's been talking on AI a bitrecently.
He's reflected some ideas thatI've spoken about that, of where
AI is going in the future.
And that's, that's one of thethings, like, there's just so
many areas AI touches.
There's philosophy, there'seconomics, there's, there's so
many things that you can reallylook at.
(31:44):
So I wanna spend some timetalking about all of those
things.
And I think, uh, you know, I, I,I hope to bring some of that
stuff to, to anybody who'sinterested in hearing about it.
If you've been in my network, ifyou've been in this, you, you'll
have the opportunity to, tolisten and learn from hopefully
some of these experts, if I getthe opportunity to, to interview
(32:04):
'em.
And like you said, let's speakit into existence.
Hopefully it comes.
I'm saying it out loud.
Roman Trebon (32:09):
No, I love it, man.
I love it.
So, uh, just like that Clemson,uh, prediction you made three
years ago, I hope, I hope thisprediction goes better than that
one, Kev, if I, if I remembercorrect.
Oh God, uh, yeah.
Kevin Metzger (32:19):
That one was, that one was bad.
And, and, and, yeah.
Roman Trebon (32:24):
No, this will be better.
No, I'm looking forward to it.
I mean, obviously our, uh, ifyou're listening to the show,
you follow us, follow Kevin onLinkedIn, whatever the show, uh,
however it gets, uh, uh,branded.
If it's gonna be under thisumbrella or a Dipper one, Kev
will have all the latestinformation.
Kev, I look forward to that.
Alright, Kev, it's sign offtime.
I got the box of Kleenexesready.
(32:44):
You ready to wrap this thing up?
One last final time?
Kevin Metzger (32:47):
Man, I just wanna say to you like, thank you for,
thank you for doing this.
We've known each other for along time.
Yeah.
The kids went to preschooltogether.
I think that's probably how wemet and I, this has been great.
Like I, I mean, Roman, thankyou.
You know, I know over time, Ithink how the work shifted
(33:08):
between us went up and down andI just like you've been.
You've been awesome as apartner, and I really, I really
appreciate it and I'm thankfulthat I had this time with you.
So this has been great.
Thank you.
Roman Trebon (33:24):
Yeah, no, Kev, I, I, I, I completely agree.
You know, it's when we weretalking about our, our goals for
the podcast earlier.
One of the ones that wasn't onthere is the deepen our
friendship.
Right?
Which is absolutely happened,right?
Uh, you know, I, you, you and Iget coffee and, and we'll
continue to get coffees and hangout and, and take walks around
the neighborhood and, and justcatch up and, and, and talk
(33:45):
what's going on in our lives,work or not work, right?
It's, that's the beauty of it.
No, Kevin, it's been amazing,man.
I, again, I went in with superlow expectations, but whatever
they would've been thiscompletely.
You know, it was nothing I couldhave imagined.
I just, I got so much out ofdoing this.
Like you said, doing it with youhas been amazing.
(34:06):
Just the, the collaboration, thepartnership, um, it just trying
something new with someone elseand, you know, us trying to
figure it out on, on our own hasbeen, has been, uh, it's been
great.
So, Kev, for, for our audience,you know, if you're, if you're
listening to the show and you'rewrapping up.
What, what any takeaways?
What should they take outtathis?
(34:26):
Anything?
Lessons that you would impartbefore we uh, we sign off?
Kevin Metzger (34:32):
Yeah.
I mean, one of the things thatI've done recently and is I've
gone back and done some of theseplaybooks from our interviews.
I, I just think I, I talk aboutit.
Obviously.
It's, it's part of what Ibelieve in with going to teach
and all the teaching that I'vebeen doing.
All that, but I think, you know,keep learning and don't forget
(34:56):
to try new things.
I think those are the twobiggest things that I would say.
It's, it's worth doing.
Like learning is awesome.
The more you learn, the more youcan figure out, the more you can
figure out, the more, the moreyou mistakes you can make and
the faster you fail.
And Le Oke, I remember this fromlike.
A high school class, Lee Iaccocasaying, faster you fail.
(35:17):
And, and then I don't have thequote exactly right.
And I, maybe I'm wrong.
Maybe it wasn't the iaccoca, butI, I, I, I, I remember being
attributed to Lee Iaccoca sayingit fell faster, basically.
Yeah.
The more you fail, the fasteryou'll succeed.
And I guess that's what I'd sayto take away from, from the
conversations.
But then go, go look at theseplaybooks because.
(35:40):
If you haven't seen'em there,five minute, five minute
overviews of these guestinterviews, and they've been,
they've been amazing.
Just a five minute recap.
So
Roman Trebon (35:48):
Bobby, check out the five minute recaps.
Go.
The great thing I, I, I thinkabout our show, if you're just
finding it now, could just gofind an episode, right?
You don't, they don't tietogether, right?
You don't need to listen toepisodes one through eight to
understand nine.
Find a topic that you like.
We've had so many amazing guestson that have so much, uh,
knowledge and expertise in thespace.
(36:09):
Give it a listen.
I, I hope you can get one nuggetout of, out of listening to the
show.
And Kev, I think you said itbest.
Uh, you know, it's just continueto be open-minded and, and
willing to learn, right?
Um, so I, I wanna, Kev, uh, onbehalf of both of us, thank our
listeners, I wanna thank ourguests, especially everyone that
came on the show.
And the customer successcommunity, both in Atlanta.
(36:32):
'cause we, we have a reallyspecial connection to the
Atlanta customer successcommunity.
They, they really supported usfrom the beginning, you know,
and, and the broader customersuccess community as well.
Right?
It's the, the amazing peoplewe've met in Atlanta in this
space has just, it's beentwofold, you know, uh, in the
broader customer success.
I want to thank everyone forgiving us your time.
(36:53):
If you've given us a listen, wereally appreciate it.
Your attention and your trust.
So this is the final episode,Kevin, of the Customer Success
Playbook Podcast in its currentform that you've teased, maybe
something now more down theline, which I'm looking forward
to.
Uh, we are grateful for you, ourlisteners, and we look forward
to seeing you and whatever comesnext for us, Kevin.
(37:14):
Until next, Ted, until thefuture.
What we what?
Keep on playing.
Keep on playing.
I love it.
Keep on.
They got the game Custom success, their claim to fame on
the podcast.
They like the spark.
Elevating your skills, creatinga mark.
Let's dive deeper into theplaybook.
The secrets they share no needto look from to retention.
(00:27):
They've got all successes thatgo gonna stand tall with each
episode.
They share the views.
Strategies and tactics that youcan use some challenges to try
and stick, helping you navigatewhen you hit a wall.
(00:50):
So tune in now and join Kevin tothe Journey in Success.
With insights and wisdom, you'llbe the best.
Welcome to this.
(01:10):
Special episode of the Customer Success Playbook
podcast.
Today we're closing this chapterof the show and reflecting on
what this journey has meant tous and to the community.
Roman, you know, it's been, it'sbeen a while, uh, that we've
been doing this.
We started in, uh, June of 23.
We launched in June of 23, butwe, uh, got together in March
Kevin Metzger (01:34):
do you remember the, uh, do you remember the
first conversation when thepodcast showed up?
Roman Trebon (01:39):
Well, yeah.
I, I remember the first time youmentioned it to me.
We were, we went to get a, uh, abite to eat and a drink go, uh.
At a local place.
And you, and you raised the ideato me, Kev, about doing a
podcast.
I think you had seen something Iposted on LinkedIn, Hey, you're
interested in customer success?
I was like, yeah.
And you threw out the idea.
(02:01):
And I thought it was, I thoughtit was, uh, I thought it was
pretty ludicrous.
Kev, I'll be honest.
I was like, why would, what apodcast like, Hey, you gotta be
kidding me.
What, what, what, uh, who wouldlisten to it?
Who would come on the show?
I had a lot of, uh, doubt, man.
But it's a super fun ride.
I've, I've loved the, uh, theentire, the entire, uh, process
(02:22):
of working with you, so, okay.
As you said all that, this isour final episode in its current
form, right?
So we're gonna use this episode.
We're gonna do a, a look back onhow we started, what we learned
along the way.
We'll, we'll, we'll do some ofour favorite moments, and, uh,
as we wind it down, we'll talk alittle bit about what's next
for, for both us and, and theshow.
(02:43):
Right.
So, uh, I'm excited to dig intoit.
Kev, let's, let me, let me startout with this.
What, when you, when you readyfor the idea of doing the
podcast, what were you hopingthis podcast would become?
When we, uh, when we, when welaunched it?
Kevin Metzger (02:57):
Yeah, you know, I knew I was gonna be entering
into a job transition phase andI think my, my first kind of
hope was alright, you know, donea lot in customer success, but I
wanna kind of get my name outthere so that I could use it as
a networking tool.
And I really, I, I think thatwas my initial kind of thought
process was, hey, this couldjust be a great tool for
(03:19):
networking.
To be honest, I mean, it, it, itwas like we've met so many
amazing people over, over thelast couple years doing this.
Yeah.
Getting to interview people andgetting to have conversations.
Yeah.
And so I, I think that was myfirst, my first thought, my
first, uh, first reasoning ondoing it.
(03:40):
How about you?
What, what you think you want?
Yeah.
Roman Trebon (03:45):
I don't know if I had any expectations ke i, I i,
that we would last more than twoepisodes, that we get anyone to
listen to us.
I, I think I had pretty, um,loudest standards when we, when
we went into it, but you know,like you said, it was, we got,
you know, I think when we reallysat down and got serious about
it, we had outlined like goalsfor us and, and I think they
were collective goals.
(04:05):
Uh, you know, and they were.
Keep honest.
You're like, learn.
Yeah.
Keep learning.
Right?
There's so much to learn incustomer success.
It's a broad definition, so tryto learn and soak in as much as
we can from, from experts in thespace, grow our network, which
you mentioned like I, it's beenamazing how many awesome people
we've met.
And you know, I, I don't know ifit's, I don't know if this is
(04:26):
specific to customer successcommunity, but I find the people
amazing, right?
Like everyone in it is just.
Uh, so giving with their time,their knowledge, always willing
to help out when needed.
I, I just find it a verywelcoming, I, I, I found it and
still find it a very welcomingcommunity.
And so, you know, our, ournetworks have grown and we've
(04:47):
got to meet so many greatauthors, CEOs, you know, people
have been coming in the CSspace.
We've, we've really run thegamut, uh, which has been great.
And then, you know, really, Ithink the third and, and
probably least important, whichjust like, like kind of grow our
personal brand.
I don't know if that's helpedthe non cap.
I think the first two instructorwere so successful in my mind
(05:08):
that, you know, I, I personallyfeel rewarded, which is, you
know, I think the ultimatemeasure of success with this
thing.
Kevin Metzger (05:15):
Yeah, I, I, I gotta agree with that.
The, I I, I spent a coupleminutes to go look at a few
statistics before, uh, before wesat down today.
I've had almost 13,000 downloadsof the podcast over, over the
last two and a half years,which, yeah, I, I guess in the
(05:38):
scale of internet things, maybeit's not a lot, but you know,
we, we talk to 13,000 people,uh, yeah, who've heard our
conversations and participatedand really thought about.
Customer success and, and maybeit's not 13,000 individuals, but
people wanted to hear us.
13,000 dimes.
That's, that's kind of, I don'teven know how, like that's an
(06:02):
amazing feeling.
13,000 people.
I, I couldn't reach 13,000people without doing this.
Roman Trebon (06:09):
Absolutely, absolutely.
And not just, you know, thenumber Australia, Israel,
France.
You, it's like it's all over theworld.
C it's, it's a, like people allover the world have downloaded
an episode and taken a listen.
Like it, it's amazing when youlook at the country stats too,
it's like, you know, you and Ilive down the street in Atlanta,
(06:30):
but our, our, our community hasgotten so much bigger through
the podcast.
Right.
Which is, it's just, uh,amazing.
Kevin Metzger (06:37):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So let's, did wanna take acouple minutes to kinda reflect,
you know, what are a coupleguests that you.
Really found memorable.
Roman Trebon (06:49):
Yeah.
We've had so many amazingguests, Kevin, I'll be honest,
I, I, in prep, I went throughour episodes and it's so many,
I'm like, oh, that was a greatepisode.
That was a great per I love thatconversation.
Like there were so many of'em.
I, it's really, you know, I, Idid get a sense of, um, you
know, just an appreciation forthe podcast, Kev.
(07:09):
Once I, I kind of went back andlooked at, at, at, at what we
did, uh, in terms of the guest,I, I couple to stick out, right?
I really loved our interviewwith Donna Weber.
I, I just thought, well, youknow, she wrote the book,
onboarding Matters to me.
It's still sort of like thebabble of onboarding.
Like, I have the book, I pull itout from time to time.
I, I still reference it, right?
I just, uh, she has greatcontent that I still follow, so.
(07:33):
Just to get, just again, thatwas someone I didn't think we'd
get.
Kevin, like, why is she gonnajoin the show?
She, she was amazing.
She was awesome.
So I, I not only learned a lot,I've been able to apply that,
you know, at my organizationand, and it's been, uh, that,
that's been a real one thatsticks out.
The, the other one is, uh,Rachel Provin.
You know, we, we had an episodeabout imposter syndrome co.
(07:56):
And I just really want, youknow, like if you, if you're
like, what does impostersyndrome have to do with
customer success?
I, I think it actually has to doa lot.
It's just for any professional,right?
It's something that I've, I'vehave dealt with, and especially
for those in the job markettoday, right?
I, I think sometimes we can selflimit ourselves and I think
having Rachel talk through that,Rachel works with people day in
(08:18):
to day out to findopportunities, opportunities in
the customer success space.
I really liked that episode aswell.
I thought that was a little bitdifferent than our traditional
episodes, but I, uh, I enjoyedit.
How about you, Kev?
What, what?
Any any shows or guests thatjumped out for you when you,
when you reflected back?
Kevin Metzger (08:35):
Yeah.
You know, I was thinking aboutit and, um, yeah.
First, I, I mean, actually firstcouple actually come from our co
first couple episodes.
I mean, just having Dave Jacksonas our first guest.
He, you know, CEO verysuccessful Right.
(08:55):
Just willing to come talk to us.
Um, also out of, out of England,right?
Outta Europe.
Yep.
So that was, that was cool.
And then really the, it's funny,I mean the, the lessons about
from him about revenue, about.
Understanding what the value ofyour service is in, in, in
(09:18):
context of a company, right?
How do you make sure that youare providing a service that's
providing benefit to thecompany?
If you're not doing that, thenare you really being successful?
Yeah, I,
Speaker 2 (09:29):
it,
Kevin Metzger (09:29):
it, it was a great first lesson for me,
right?
To, to just have,
Roman Trebon (09:34):
and, and I would say if you're now just listening
to our show and you've notlistened to all the other
episodes.
Dave Jackson set the toneunintentionally ke for like the
entire podcast.
He started with p and l and it'sso important and if you
understand your p and l and, andand, and the value you bring to
the organization, everythingelse comes out.
You know, it was, we didn't planthat.
(09:56):
I wish we planned it that way,but it just worked out that way.
Right.
So if you haven't, go back andlisten to Dave.
An amazing episode.
I completely agree, man.
We lucked out with that one and,and really I think you could
just put a pin in that and say,you know, start there and then,
and then go through that otherepisodes, watch you listen.
Kevin Metzger (10:14):
Yeah.
So I, I mean I think that wasfantastic.
The other David, David Allen,early on, David's become, David
Allen's become a real mentor tome.
Um, so I'm just veryappreciative of that.
And then.
You know, I'm, you know, I loveAI and, and, uh, Sam Cummings
who was just such a, yeah, Iwent to the gain site in 2024.
(10:37):
I met Sam there and he's justsuch an insightful dude in
really understands ai.
I think he was one of the firstperson people we talked to about
agents and actually agentsworking together.
And so that, I think that helpedexpand my understanding of AI
(11:01):
and how agents can work and howagents can work together, and
some of that, which, you know,it's funny if you, people are
still trying to understand thoseconcepts.
So that was what, July ish of24, I think that we had that
episode.
So
Roman Trebon (11:17):
yeah.
You know, Kev, one of the thingswe, uh, we had talked about in
the kind of the prep is justkind of the, I don't wanna say
behind the scenes, but the stuffthat happened after the show,
right?
Like, you know, we, we if littleinside baseball gear, but we
would get on with our guests andwe would have a little pre-talk
and, you know, and then we'drecord and then we got to talk
to him afterwards.
(11:38):
Anything, uh, stick out to youfrom our kind of.
You know, behind the scenesviews when we stopped, when the
record button was stopped withany of our guests.
Kevin Metzger (11:49):
Well, you know, uh, you mentioned Donna.
Um, uh, Sue is another one.
Both of them were very helpfulin kind of recommending other
guests to come on the show tohelp propel us forward and
people we should meet and talkto.
Uh, and I think that happened,you know, those two in
(12:09):
particular stuck out becausethey really gave a couple of
really good recommendations and,and connections.
But I, that happened over andover again.
So I think that was one of thethings people, you, you
mentioned people being given,people weren't, were giving up
their time.
They were giving up theirinformation, they were giving
other their contacts.
And you're right.
I don't know if it's particularto the space, I don't know, but
(12:32):
it would, it, it made.
What we were trying to do somuch easier.
It made it just flow.
It made us just okay, yeah,we'll just have that next
conversation.
And it, it was really, I, Ithink that How about yourself?
Any, anybody that you saw,
Roman Trebon (12:49):
you know, I love the kind of post wrap up
conversations, right?
Because we would talk aboutwhatever the topic was and then,
you know, we kind of took a deepbreath after, and then we would
just talk about whatever, likeI, a couple things to stick out.
I remember you mentioned DaveEllen, but.
We get off the show, Dave'sshowing us, he makes these huge
Lego builds.
And I'm like, what?
This is insane.
That's awesome.
This is amazing.
(13:09):
I'm like, you gotta send mepictures, right?
Uh, Matt Lama, you know, playingguitar, he's like in a band and
stuff, right?
Like he, you know, he wrote abook and he'd play in this band
and, you know, we would, wewould ask the question, I think,
I can't remember when we startedit, but we would ask our guests
like, Hey, if we came to visityou, you know, what should we
see?
Or where should we go?
Right.
And then people would sharelike, oh, you know, if you ever
(13:29):
come over here, you gotta go tothis place.
Or, you know, I'm about to headon this, you know, I'm about to
go vacation here.
And you just learned about'empersonally, right.
Beyond just whatever the topicwas and Yeah.
And that's the part I reallyliked.
Right.
You got to know him.
And, and I, I hope if you are aformer guest listening, I hope
you had a good time with us.
Right?
Like really, we, our, our goalis if you came on the show, was
(13:51):
to try to make it as easy aspossible and to try to have a
fun time.
I walked away.
I always enjoyed it, man.
Like, I always felt like, ohman, that was, even though I had
some nerves going into eachepisode, when you get through
it, I'm like, man, what a greatguest.
You know, really enjoyed gettingto know him and, and, and I
really valued that.
Kevin Metzger (14:09):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I really, I, you're just,you're speaking to something
that I think, you know, isalways important, personal
connection, but as we keepmoving forward into, into this
new age of ai.
Personal connections are thethings that allow you to know
(14:29):
what's real.
Yeah.
I keep, I keep getting asked bymy daughter, how are we gonna
know what's real?
We know what's real about peoplewe interface with by the people
we talk to.
Um, so I, I find that such a,it's such a nice thing and being
able to have those conversationsand the personal conversations,
and then being able to reach outto people.
(14:51):
You know are real.
Right?
Yeah.
It, wherever they are and havingthose contacts everywhere is, is
it's, it's a, it's amazing.
It's such a good, good thing tobe able to do, to be able to
know people, to be able to talkto people, to be able to learn
from people, to be able to sharewith people.
It's, I, yeah.
(15:13):
In the end, yeah, go ahead.
Roman Trebon (15:16):
No, I, I, no, it's not to tell you off here, but
like when I was, when, you know,I was thinking back on the show,
I, I was, I was constantlyreminded of one quote, which I
really enjoyed.
I think it relates to myexperience doing the show.
It it's life shrinks or expandsin proportion to one's courage.
Right?
And, and that I, I would say,you know, when I went, like I
(15:37):
said, when you asked me to dothis, I, I had all these reasons
why I shouldn't do it.
Right?
All this fear of, you know,rejection or, you know.
We took the plunge, right?
We did it.
We didn't know, we didn't knowanything about podcasting.
I didn't know how to, I barelyknow how to hit the record
button.
Right.
Like I was, you know, and, andwe did show notes and we did
prep, and we talked to peoplewho did it.
(15:57):
And like, we just learnedthrough the process and, and we
reached out to people and, andwe've, like we've talked about
so far, we made so many greatconnections, right?
Our, my world, I, I don't wannaspeak for you, Ken, but I know
your world too.
It's, it's expanded so much.
It's because we had the courageto take the plunge.
Right.
We, it, it expanded because weasked people to come on the
show.
(16:17):
Right.
It expanded because we weren'tafraid to, to give this a shot.
Right.
And so I was just constantlyreminded of that as I was
looking back.
Kevin Metzger (16:25):
Yeah.
I I think that's such a, it'ssuch an important thing.
You know, I've, I've pulledthings over time where I just
don't, I'm just like, just gonnado it.
If you kinda have a high levelidea of what you wanna do, what
your goals are, and then youjust start working towards'em,
right?
It's so easy to get stuck.
It's so easy to get stuck in.
(16:47):
Well, I don't know what's next.
I don't know what to do.
Um, and I remember, I rememberfrom, uh, it's a Tony Robbins
training that I took at onepoint in time.
Um.
Trying to, trying to accomplishbig goals and what, what you
gotta do.
(17:07):
And he was talking about how youtalk to yourself about that
kinda stuff.
And one of the things he's like,well what?
What's the next step?
All you have to do is figure outwhat the next step is.
And he is like, well, and youmight say to yourself, well, I
don't know what the next stepis.
I said, well, tell yourself, ifI didn't know what the next step
was, what would
Roman Trebon (17:26):
it be?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kevin Metzger (17:27):
Yeah.
It's funny because it's, andthen I'll be honest, you know,
so I was like, all right, let'sjust let's, I, I'm a big, I'm
like, I wanna know where I'mgoing.
If I know where I'm going, I, Iwant to plan to get there.
But I'm okay with the fact thatyou got to things spell you.
You're wrong so much of thetime.
(17:47):
Right?
Yeah.
Um, so, okay.
It's okay.
What?
It took me a long time in lifeto learn it's okay to be wrong
about something.
Just fix it and make it rightand keep moving the, the
objective is the goal and gotowards it.
And this was one of thosethings, right?
We started, like you said, withrelatively no knowledge.
(18:08):
I had a little bit, I had playedwith some stuff I, like I said,
I like picking up randomprojects and doing things.
I did the sta the project in2009 where I had recorded a
couple of podcasts as part ofit.
And so I had some idea and whenyou're like, well, how are we
gonna do the tech?
Don't worry about it.
I'll so, because I had playedwith some of the stuff before,
(18:31):
but, but yeah, it's What do youdo?
Do you know where you want togo?
Okay.
What's the first step?
You don't have to know everysingle step in between.
I have a couple ideas where youwant to go.
What are some of the steps?
And then test it.
If it fails, try something else.
And I, I think interestingly, asa personal lesson from this.
(18:54):
That's it works.
Getting the goals, understandingwhere you want to go, and then
figuring out the steps along theway.
You're not a hundred percentsure start, start guessing, and
by the way, having, having youas a partner in this and kind of
thinking through it together,right?
I mean, yeah, yeah.
Team go.
Roman Trebon (19:16):
No, Kev, I would just, I, I, I completely agree,
right?
I, I would say our, myexperience in the podcast, I, I,
is, it, it, it, that, thatdirectly relates to my
day-to-day job, right?
Know what the goals are.
Just take the first step, try sosomething iterate.
You're gonna fail.
It's okay.
Like I think back on thepodcast, Kev, we started with
(19:37):
just you and I talking right?
Then we had guests on.
And then we did recap showsafter the guest.
Right.
We tried that for a while.
We, then we had, we've had AI doshows, you know, like ai Kevin
and AI Roman did a show.
We've done many episodes.
We've done special EPIs, likewe've tried a bunch and we've
(19:57):
tried stuff with the format ofthe show.
We've tried stuff with how we'vereached out.
We tried stuff with how you andI work.
We always knew what we weretrying to achieve.
Right?
The same goals we outlinedearlier, and we just iterated,
right?
We just took the next actionand, and some things we loved
and it worked and we kept itlike the, like the, the, the,
the show questions for theguests, like the personal
questions.
We put it in there, it stuck.
(20:18):
We tried other stuff like therecaps.
It didn't stick.
It was okay, you know, but wetried it and you're not gonna
know until you try it.
And, and I can take that andrelate it right back to the job.
Right?
You know what we're trying todo, right?
Like in customer success.
Grow revenue, right.
Retain customers, right.
I know the goals.
How do we get there?
Well, let's try stuff, you know?
You know, let's, and again,working as a team, getting up,
(20:41):
being open to ideas and youknow, so that has been a big
takeaway for me is I actuallygot to use something in my
personal life that I can nowincorporate into my work life as
well.
Kevin Metzger (20:52):
Yeah.
Fantastic.
Fantastic.
So let's talk about, let's talkabout, you know.
We decided we've gotta end, endthe show.
There's obviously reasons forthat, let's say.
I mean, and, and, and they'regood actually.
All of them are good reasons,right?
We've got, we've both gottenbusy with various things.
Um, yeah.
(21:12):
And so Roman, I mean, what, whatis it, what's taking your time
these days?
Yeah, for sure.
These days for sure.
And, and wherever you've grownto.
Roman Trebon (21:20):
Yeah.
So I, I, I, so I'm reallyexcited, Kevin, and, and, and
again.
As much fun as the show, as youand I know, it wasn't like we
just ruled the, you know, wejust ruled this out each week
and, and you could just recordand, and do the fun part of the
interview.
It, it was a lot, there was alot of work and a lot work time
and Yep.
It, it adds up.
And so, you know, right now I'mat a company called Teams Plus
(21:42):
we, a, a communication as a, acommunication platform as a
service, right?
So voice messaging, e you know,any communication channels.
We have a carrier grade network,have.
Uh, we, we are layering on kindof, you know, you choose your
own platform, but then we layeranalytics, AI on top of it,
(22:02):
deeper insights, and we'rereally pivoting our company from
like a reseller, like an oldschool reseller, to this really
kind of open AI analytics ledcommunication platform.
And it's been an excitingchange, but you know, with that
change becomes moreresponsibility, more, more work.
Fun stuff, Kev.
Again, I'll, the beauty of it isI can take what we've learned
(22:27):
from this show and apply it to,to my, to my day-to-day job.
Right.
And a lot of that stuff, Kev,like onboarding with Donna,
specific to onboarding.
But you know, the, the lessonswe learned across all of our
guests apply in so manydifferent areas.
Not just work, but likeday-to-day life as well.
Right.
And I think I'm excited to takethose lessons we've learned and,
(22:48):
and apply, keep applying them.
As, as Teams Plus grows.
It's an exciting time, Kevin,you know, again, when you're,
when you're a company that'sgrowing and, and something's
every day there's something new,I enjoy that.
And, and yeah, we, we, we are,uh, we're really excited for
where we're headed and, and I'm,I'm excited for, you know, where
my growth will lead within,within that journey as well.
(23:11):
I'd love to know, Kevin, you,you have a lot going on, right?
Uh, I, I, I don't wanna, I don'twanna, um.
You know, maybe sway your, whereyou start with this answer, but
you're wearing the Kennesaw AlJersey.
I didn't see any Kennesaw AlJersey gear two years ago when
we started this.
What, okay, let's start there.
Kevin Metzger (23:30):
Yeah, sure.
Well, first off, I've got twokids at Kennesaw, uh, that's
expect
Roman Trebon (23:37):
Sure, sure.
I'm leading the question.
I'm leading the question.
Kevin Metzger (23:41):
Yeah, we, and, and, yeah, we've got the, we're
recording this beforechampionship weekend.
We got conference USAchampionship weekend coming up.
But yeah, I, I, last summer Istarted having conversations
with Kenne.
Saw about doing some work withthem and actually being a
(24:01):
teacher there or a professorthere.
So, uh, gone through theprocess.
I am going to.
Starting in the spring,actually, it's a long process to
get into owning a class.
So the fall, I'll own a class inthe spring semester.
I'm gonna be a teacher assistantfor a graduate level class, a
(24:24):
FinTech graduate level taskclass, which is super exciting.
We're gonna talk about structureof finance and what Syntech is
today, the hardware or softwarerelated to.
FinTech and then go into Bitcoinor, well, not Bitcoin, but the
blockchain.
Yeah.
(24:45):
And, and all that.
And honestly, I'm super excitedabout it because it's not an
area that I have a ton ofexperience in, but the professor
who's leading this, the docdoctor who's leading the class
is, is just an expert in thearea.
And I'm gonna get theopportunity to not only
participate and help withgrades.
(25:07):
Reading papers and participatingin the discussion for it.
It's such a, it's like anopportunity for me to learn
about new subjects and if theone thing that is a constant in
my life, things that learn, leadto doing something like this,
lead to everything is I love tolearn.
Learning is like just, and, andso you're gonna get paid to
(25:31):
actually go take graduate levelclass and, and, and learn.
As well as help out and reallyhelp, help help students, uh, in
this particular case.
And then, you know, when I doget into having the class of my
own in the fall, uh, I, I'm, I'mjust super excited about it.
So it's a part-time thing, butit, it's, it's something that
I'm, I'm very excited about.
Roman Trebon (25:52):
Well, I, I am looking forward to my Kennesaw
AL'S toss cap that you'll bebringing over here soon.
So I'm excited for that.
But for those who don't knowthough, I, I, I will say this
and I don't just say this kept,'cause you're gonna be teaching
there.
Kennesaw State's in Atlanta.
You may, if you're listening tothis and you're not in the
Atlanta area, you may not knowit as well what they are doing
at Kennesaw State.
(26:12):
I am, I, I am a huge fan ofsales operations courses,
customer success FinTech.
They are, they are, in myopinion, is like the new
generation of university wherethey are meeting the need of the
market.
They're just not traditional.
Like, here's your accountingclass, da da da.
They bring in expertise in thatspace and teach the kids that
(26:35):
are gonna really, you know,really help enable them when
they go into the workforce.
I've been really blown away by,that's why I'm excited to have
you participate over there aswell and, and look forward to
hear more.
But that's how you have ke Yougot the, don't, don't just stop
here because I, you got a lotmore than that.
Kevin Metzger (26:54):
Well, I mean, so like I said, I was, or earlier
on, I mentioned when we startedthis, I was looking to do
networking because I knew I'd bein job transition and I, I spent
a lot of last year in jobtransition, but I also spent a
lot of time learning.
Um, and so I, I do, so I, I,I've got a kind of full-time
(27:14):
role where I'm doing consultingin the supply chain space.
As well as I've also startedyour AI assistant guy, which is
basically an AI trainingprogram.
So I've got a couple oftraining.
By the time this comes out,we'll, we'll actually have the
first standardized training kindof offering up.
(27:34):
It'll be cohorts of 20 peoplethat you know, can come and
really learn.
It's what I, so one of thethings that I've been doing over
the last couple, since Septemberof 23, actually.
Was training in local job, uh,networking on how to use AI as
part of your job search.
And one of the things I'velearned is there's a lot of
(27:57):
people that are trying to learnhow to use ai and so this is
really a fundamentals coursewhere people who really maybe
haven't used it very much yet,or who have, but don't really
understand how to benefit fromit or work and how to use it.
It's gonna be a fundamentalskill going forward.
(28:17):
And so this is really taking youfrom, you know, if you don't
know anything, it's gonna be agreat course to start with and
we'll take you to kind of reallyusing it at a master's level,
understanding how to use it inyour job.
So that's, that's, uh, theoffering through there.
And yeah, in addition, whilethis version of the Customer
(28:41):
Success Playbook is going to.
Done.
I I, and this is still slightlyup in the air as far as where
we're going ex exactly yet, butI do want to keep doing
interviews with people.
I want to focus on experts inthe AI space going forward, but
(29:02):
we'll still keep a focus oncustomer success.
And really the consulting I dois in supply chain, so we're
gonna look at that too andbring, you know, supply chain
and customer success and AItogether.
Kind of in that next iteration.
It may stay under the samebrand.
It may come under the u AIassistant guide.
That's, that's still notfinalized.
(29:22):
But I'm excited about it and Ireally have some, like we've
talked about targeting big, bignames and big people.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, and growing, and I, I, I, Ihave some aspirational folks
that I really would like tointerview because.
You know, this space in, in AIis super interesting and there
are a lot of big thinkers on it.
(29:44):
Um, I don't know, I I, I'mhesitant to name anybody.
Roman Trebon (29:49):
Speak it into existence.
Kev, speak it into existence.
Gimme at least one here.
Kevin Metzger (29:54):
Yeah, I
Roman Trebon (29:54):
I'm gonna give you two.
Kevin Metzger (29:56):
Alright.
Uh, one is, and both of themI've had interactions with in
the past in one way or another.
So, Igor PNI is currently.
He was a guy who, one of thereasons I did that five on AI
in, uh, in June of 23.
And actually the, the biggestreason I stopped is'cause we had
(30:18):
already started on doing thisand this was the commitment
first.
But one of the other reasons Istopped was Igor and a couple
other guys, Matt Berman, mapWolf, the three of them were
just on top.
This AI thing and producing at alevel that I was like, these
(30:39):
guys are awesome.
I'm just gonna follow them andlearn from them for the next
couple years.
But I really, I hope to talk tothose three.
I, I, Igor specifically, I, I'vebeen taking a class from, and
I'm hoping that I'll, I'll beable to get the opportunity to
in interview him.
And then the other guy who I metback when I did the Advocate
(31:00):
project briefly, and I saw himspeak once and then I went to
book signing.
He did and chatted with himthere.
I've chatted with him onlineover the years a couple times is
Gary Vaynerchuk and I, I think Imentioned to you that I, I'd be
interested in talking to him.
This guy is just obsessivelycustomer focused, obsessively
(31:22):
business focused, obsessive,but.
He's been talking on AI a bitrecently.
He's reflected some ideas thatI've spoken about that, of where
AI is going in the future.
And that's, that's one of thethings, like, there's just so
many areas AI touches.
There's philosophy, there'seconomics, there's, there's so
many things that you can reallylook at.
(31:44):
So I wanna spend some timetalking about all of those
things.
And I think, uh, you know, I, I,I hope to bring some of that
stuff to, to anybody who'sinterested in hearing about it.
If you've been in my network, ifyou've been in this, you, you'll
have the opportunity to, tolisten and learn from hopefully
some of these experts, if I getthe opportunity to, to interview
(32:04):
'em.
And like you said, let's speakit into existence.
Hopefully it comes.
I'm saying it out loud.
Roman Trebon (32:09):
No, I love it, man.
I love it.
So, uh, just like that Clemson,uh, prediction you made three
years ago, I hope, I hope thisprediction goes better than that
one, Kev, if I, if I remembercorrect.
Oh God, uh, yeah.
Kevin Metzger (32:19):
That one was, that one was bad.
And, and, and, yeah.
Roman Trebon (32:24):
No, this will be better.
No, I'm looking forward to it.
I mean, obviously our, uh, ifyou're listening to the show,
you follow us, follow Kevin onLinkedIn, whatever the show, uh,
however it gets, uh, uh,branded.
If it's gonna be under thisumbrella or a Dipper one, Kev
will have all the latestinformation.
Kev, I look forward to that.
Alright, Kev, it's sign offtime.
I got the box of Kleenexesready.
(32:44):
You ready to wrap this thing up?
One last final time?
Kevin Metzger (32:47):
Man, I just wanna say to you like, thank you for,
thank you for doing this.
We've known each other for along time.
Yeah.
The kids went to preschooltogether.
I think that's probably how wemet and I, this has been great.
Like I, I mean, Roman, thankyou.
You know, I know over time, Ithink how the work shifted
(33:08):
between us went up and down andI just like you've been.
You've been awesome as apartner, and I really, I really
appreciate it and I'm thankfulthat I had this time with you.
So this has been great.
Thank you.
Roman Trebon (33:24):
Yeah, no, Kev, I, I, I, I completely agree.
You know, it's when we weretalking about our, our goals for
the podcast earlier.
One of the ones that wasn't onthere is the deepen our
friendship.
Right?
Which is absolutely happened,right?
Uh, you know, I, you, you and Iget coffee and, and we'll
continue to get coffees and hangout and, and take walks around
the neighborhood and, and justcatch up and, and, and talk
(33:45):
what's going on in our lives,work or not work, right?
It's, that's the beauty of it.
No, Kevin, it's been amazing,man.
I, again, I went in with superlow expectations, but whatever
they would've been thiscompletely.
You know, it was nothing I couldhave imagined.
I just, I got so much out ofdoing this.
Like you said, doing it with youhas been amazing.
(34:06):
Just the, the collaboration, thepartnership, um, it just trying
something new with someone elseand, you know, us trying to
figure it out on, on our own hasbeen, has been, uh, it's been
great.
So, Kev, for, for our audience,you know, if you're, if you're
listening to the show and you'rewrapping up.
What, what any takeaways?
What should they take outtathis?
(34:26):
Anything?
Lessons that you would impartbefore we uh, we sign off?
Kevin Metzger (34:32):
Yeah.
I mean, one of the things thatI've done recently and is I've
gone back and done some of theseplaybooks from our interviews.
I, I just think I, I talk aboutit.
Obviously.
It's, it's part of what Ibelieve in with going to teach
and all the teaching that I'vebeen doing.
All that, but I think, you know,keep learning and don't forget
(34:56):
to try new things.
I think those are the twobiggest things that I would say.
It's, it's worth doing.
Like learning is awesome.
The more you learn, the more youcan figure out, the more you can
figure out, the more, the moreyou mistakes you can make and
the faster you fail.
And Le Oke, I remember this fromlike.
A high school class, Lee Iaccocasaying, faster you fail.
(35:17):
And, and then I don't have thequote exactly right.
And I, maybe I'm wrong.
Maybe it wasn't the iaccoca, butI, I, I, I, I remember being
attributed to Lee Iaccoca sayingit fell faster, basically.
Yeah.
The more you fail, the fasteryou'll succeed.
And I guess that's what I'd sayto take away from, from the
conversations.
But then go, go look at theseplaybooks because.
(35:40):
If you haven't seen'em there,five minute, five minute
overviews of these guestinterviews, and they've been,
they've been amazing.
Just a five minute recap.
So
Roman Trebon (35:48):
Bobby, check out the five minute recaps.
Go.
The great thing I, I, I thinkabout our show, if you're just
finding it now, could just gofind an episode, right?
You don't, they don't tietogether, right?
You don't need to listen toepisodes one through eight to
understand nine.
Find a topic that you like.
We've had so many amazing guestson that have so much, uh,
knowledge and expertise in thespace.
(36:09):
Give it a listen.
I, I hope you can get one nuggetout of, out of listening to the
show.
And Kev, I think you said itbest.
Uh, you know, it's just continueto be open-minded and, and
willing to learn, right?
Um, so I, I wanna, Kev, uh, onbehalf of both of us, thank our
listeners, I wanna thank ourguests, especially everyone that
came on the show.
And the customer successcommunity, both in Atlanta.
(36:32):
'cause we, we have a reallyspecial connection to the
Atlanta customer successcommunity.
They, they really supported usfrom the beginning, you know,
and, and the broader customersuccess community as well.
Right?
It's the, the amazing peoplewe've met in Atlanta in this
space has just, it's beentwofold, you know, uh, in the
broader customer success.
I want to thank everyone forgiving us your time.
(36:53):
If you've given us a listen, wereally appreciate it.
Your attention and your trust.
So this is the final episode,Kevin, of the Customer Success
Playbook Podcast in its currentform that you've teased, maybe
something now more down theline, which I'm looking forward
to.
Uh, we are grateful for you, ourlisteners, and we look forward
to seeing you and whatever comesnext for us, Kevin.
(37:14):
Until next, Ted, until thefuture.
What we what?
Keep on playing.
Keep on playing.
I love it.
Keep on.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
Two Guys, Five Rings: Matt, Bowen & The Olympics
Two Guys (Bowen Yang and Matt Rogers). Five Rings (you know, from the Olympics logo). One essential podcast for the 2026 Milan-Cortina Winter Olympics. Bowen Yang (SNL, Wicked) and Matt Rogers (Palm Royale, No Good Deed) of Las Culturistas are back for a second season of Two Guys, Five Rings, a collaboration with NBC Sports and iHeartRadio. In this 15-episode event, Bowen and Matt discuss the top storylines, obsess over Italian culture, and find out what really goes on in the Olympic Village.