Customer Success Playbook S3 E46 - Mary Schmid - Listen To Connect not Correct

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 In this high-impact episode of the Customer Success Playbook, hosts Kevin Metzger and Roman Trebon welcome Mary Schmid, MBA, a communication and leadership expert with a passion for rewiring how we listen. Mary reveals how to shift from surface-level exchanges to trust-building dialogues by embracing her "Conversational Edge" framework. Rather than defaulting to advice-giving, Mary urges professionals to pause and lean into connection-first listening. With a foundation in neuroscience, she explains how we unconsciously drop out of conversations every 12 to 18 seconds—and how to stay tuned in. If you think you’re a good listener, this episode might surprise you.

Detailed Analysis: This episode flips the script on what it means to be a "trusted advisor." Mary Schmid argues that client relationships are often eroded by a focus on proving expertise instead of demonstrating care. Using brain science as a guide, she introduces the idea that effective listening triggers the brain’s trust response. Listeners are walked through a conversational sequence that begins with understanding the situation, moves into exploring the client’s thoughts and emotions, and culminates in assessing the impact. The goal? Helping clients feel heard, not herded.

Mary deftly explains how traditional expertise-driven dialogue creates power imbalances, pushing clients into defensive, disengaged states. In contrast, her approach taps into the oxytocin-powered trust circuit by creating psychological safety. The episode offers practical examples and humorous insights—including Kevin getting called out for zoning out every few seconds (we’re looking at you, Kevin).

For business leaders and customer success professionals, Mary provides a vital reminder: real influence stems from emotional connection, not intellectual superiority. When you guide a client into collaborative discovery, rather than corner them with solutions, you spark engagement and build lasting loyalty.

Her parting wisdom? Respect begins with listening to connect, not correct.

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Episode Transcript

Kevin Metzger (00:05):
Customer success.

Roman Trebon (00:10):
Hello everyone and welcome to the Customer Success
Playbook podcast, where we bringyou actionable insights to
deepen your client relationshipsin drive success in your
business.
I'm your host, Roman Rebond,joined by my co-host Kevin
Metzker.
We're thrilled to kick offanother fantastic week, and our
guest today is someone who trulyunderstands how to transform

(00:31):
everyday conversations in thetrust building experiences.
Kevin, I I'm really excitedabout our guest today.
I have my listening ears.
I'm tuned in and ready to go.
I'm totally focused.
You excited for, uh, for what wehave going on this week?

Kevin Metzger (00:44):
I am.
I am.
And so joining us today is, uh,Mary Schmidt, MBA.
Communications and leadershipspecialists who help countless
functional professionals andhigh achievers elevate their
conversations.
Mary's conversational edgesystem applies neuroscience
principles to help businessesshift from transactional advice

(01:05):
to meaningful long-term clientrelationships.
Mary, we're excited to have youhere with us today.
How are you?

Mary Schmid (01:10):
I'm well, and thank you for the opportunity to
address your audience and tohave this lovely conversation
that we're going to have.

Roman Trebon (01:17):
Yeah.
I'm super excited Mary, to haveyou on.
Kevin.
As you know, listening toclients is so important.
It's like a, a skill that is soimportant, yet I feel like so
many people don't do iteffectively.
Right.
And, and, and you and I havetalked about this in the past,
so Mary, let's dive right intoit.
Okay.
Considering your expertise,what's your number one tip for

(01:37):
our audience to truly listen towhat clients need beyond just
the numbers and everydayformalities.

Mary Schmid (01:45):
My number one tip is listen to connect, not
correct

Roman Trebon (01:51):
it.
And here's the deal,

Mary Schmid (01:53):
what happens in our brain?
Let's go.
Let's, let me introduce a littlebit of brain science.
What happens is when we're inconversations, we drop out of
listening every 12 to 18seconds.
We're listening dropouts, everysingle one of us, myself
included.
And where do we go when we thinkabout what they, we think about
what the other person has justsaid and whether we agree with

(02:13):
it or not agree with it.
And if we don't agree with it,what are we gonna say to show
them that they're wrong?
And we're right.
It's as simple as that.
And so we, uh, listening toconnect is really different than
just all these other 500 kindsof listening.
It has kind of a really setprocess.
And first you need to listen tothe situation.
What is going on?

(02:34):
Don't pretend that you know,don't assume that you know
what's going on here.
And then we gently, in aconversational style, take it a
little deeper.
So what's the situation?
Okay, I now understand thesituation.
Second step is we move intolike, what is this person
thinking or feeling about thesituation?
So I might say something to theeffect of like, so what are your

(02:57):
thoughts and what.
You told me what's going onhere?
What are your thoughts?
How did that make you feel?
What do you wanna do about that?
The third piece is we look atthe impact it has on the other
person.
So this is the situation and I'mfeeling really frustrated about
it.
What, how does that impact you?
And so we kind of follow that.
Do you see how it's sort of anatural conversational

(03:19):
progression and sequence?
And as we do that, we're showingthe other person that we're
listening, and what happens tothem is that their mirror,
mirror neuron system kicks it,and all of a sudden they're
thinking like, oh my gosh, thisperson is listening to me.
They're interested.
They don't wanna justprematurely solve my problem
prematurely, give me advice.
They really wanna know what'sgoing on.

(03:40):
So that's up for us to lead thatconversation, to guide the
conversation in such a way,because when we do that.
We get the good hormones going,the good chemicals we get the
oxytocin, otherneurotransmitters flowing.
Our prefrontal, our smart brainopens up and that's where we
trust.
And when we lead with trust andallow other people to have that

(04:03):
experience, they can respond notonly with trust, they can be
better problem solvers, betterthinkers, and really look at the
situation with you.

Roman Trebon (04:14):
Man, I love this.
This is, this is awesome.
It, it's interesting you saideveryone drops out 12 to 18
seconds when they're listening.
It's funny, Kevin drops out whenI speak to'em every three to six
seconds.
I, I, it's so much faster.
I don't know why that is.
It's the a d But go ahead.
I know, you, me had a question.

Kevin Metzger (04:28):
Listening to what you say means so much.
You know, we talk in theindustry and customer success
industry all the time aboutbeing a trusted advisor.
Mm-hmm.
And trying to get to that pointof being a trusted advisor.
I think a lot of people thinkthat means you need to show
everything you know.
I've heard this as a saying andI think you just did a good job
of demonstrating it.
Doesn't know.

(04:49):
Nobody cares how much you knowuntil they know how much you
care.

Mary Schmid (04:51):
That's right.
That,

Kevin Metzger (04:53):
how do you align to make sure they under that?
They understand you're listeningto their problem, so they know
that you're trying to solve theproblem for them as opposed to
show them what you know.

Mary Schmid (05:06):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that comes back to theneuroscience of conversations
and that the conversations thatwe lead will either open up
people to connect or they shutthem down into protection.
When we open up and connect thecor, the oxytocins starts
running and we can, um.
Actively engage with oneanother.
And how do we do this?
We share and discover togetherwhat's going on with you?

(05:27):
What's going on with me?
This is what I think.
This is what you think.
When we get that lay of theland, then we can begin to solve
problems together.
The problem is.
That most people don't do that.
They either tell people what todo, well, you tell me what to do
and I'll back me into a corner.
Or they use their expertise,their charts, their graphs,

(05:49):
their knowledge to show you thatI know more than you.
And you know what that does?
It creates this powerdifferential like you're the
expert and I'm a dummy,

Roman Trebon (05:59):
uhhuh.
And

Mary Schmid (06:00):
people tune out and they don't trust you.

Roman Trebon (06:03):
I love this.
Mary, do you, do you have, andagain, we, we've moved to these
short segments, but I'm sointrigued by this conversation.
I, I, we, we may go a littlelonger audience on, on this one.
So for, do you have a, a, aquick, simple tip or two for
people that are actually listen,trying to do better listening in
terms of like, do you, I'mthinking, is it my body
language, Mary?
Is it, do I need to mirror yourlanguage?

(06:25):
Do I need to summarize?
Am I in the wrong path here?

Mary Schmid (06:28):
You're on the, you're, you're going down a
path.
But I wanna get back to thebasics.
Okay?
So if you're, if you wanna learnhow to lead with trust and lead
conversations that beget trust,you need to know the principles
first.
And from the principles thenflow the specific tactics like
mirroring and, and all the otherskills.

(06:49):
But the first place to start isto understand that what you say
and how you say it, and yourtone of voice, your eye contact,
your body language, all of that.
Influences the very beginning ofthe conversation.
So how do we set up theconversation that's respectful
and that triggers the brain in apositive way?

(07:09):
I love it.
And we do that by what we do,that by not telling, not
showing, not persuading.
We start with listening toconnect.
What's going on with you?
What's going on in thissituation?
Oh, that's interesting.
Can you tell me more?
What did you think about that?
What are you feeling about that?
How did that impact you?
Now you've gotten with thosekinds of questions, you've

(07:31):
gotten me totally engaged withyou, and I know you're listening
to me, and that is such a rarecircumstance where people
really, truly listen.
That I will take note of that.
It also frees me up to feel safein the conversation because you
listen to me, I now can speak upand speak out about what I
think.

(07:51):
So we start with the principle.
You've gotta list, we know whatthe neuroscience is, protect or
connect, and from that we thenprinciple number one is show
respect by listening to connect,not correct.
I

Roman Trebon (08:03):
love it.
This is, this is great stuff.
I, uh, we're gonna dive in more.
Mary, you're coming back, right?
You're coming back on Wednesday.
Show you're gonna join us.

Mary Schmid (08:11):
I wouldn't miss it.
I wouldn't miss it for theworld.

Roman Trebon (08:14):
That's awesome.
This has been fantastic insightsfor Mary.
We are gonna continue thisconversation'cause there's a
whole a a lot more to unpack.
So on we Wednesday's episode,we're gonna explore our one big
question segment, which is, howcan empathy boost client trust
and loyalty?
So in the meantime, if you enjoyour show, make sure you
subscribe.
So you'll get notifications,you'll know when the Wednesday

(08:35):
episode comes out.
You won't miss Friday's episode,et cetera.
Uh, share it with yourcolleagues, share with your
friends and family.
Leave us a a rating, uh, acomment we're and connect with
us.
We really appreciate that.
Uh, we'll see you on Wednesdayfor our one big question.
And until then, Kevin, keep on.