April 25, 2025 • 13 mins
In the final chapter of a compelling three-part series on the Customer Success Playbook, hosts Kevin Metzger and Roman Trebon sit down once more with communication strategist Mary Schmid to explore whether artificial intelligence can play a meaningful role in building trust. With AI Fridays in full swing, the conversation veers into uncharted territory: can AI actually help us become better listeners, or are we outsourcing our empathy to machines?
Detailed Analysis: AI in customer success is no longer theoretical; it's operational. From onboarding workflows to meeting recaps, AI is here to streamline. But the question Mary Schmid challenges us with is not can AI help, but how and where should it be used? With characteristic wit and wisdom, she makes it clear: AI can emulate empathy, but it can't feel it. The result? AI may simulate care, but it can’t substitute human connection.
The group reflects on how AI, while useful for efficiency and summarization, may inadvertently encourage disengagement. Roman candidly shares how AI-generated transcripts have made him a lazier listener—a relatable confession for many knowledge workers navigating tech overload. Mary counters with a powerful reminder: presence is a choice. No matter how smart your tools, nothing replaces being fully in the conversation.
This episode offers a practical and philosophical blueprint for integrating AI responsibly. Use it for insights, yes. Use it for speed, definitely. But never let it replace your human instinct to connect. Mary leaves us with a challenge: show up with your eyes, ears, and heart—because no algorithm can replicate that.
Bonus treat: Mary created a downloadable resource exclusively for Customer Success Playbook listeners. Grab it at maryschmid.com/csb — it includes free resources and even complimentary access to her book.
Now you can interact with us directly by leaving a voice message at https://www.speakpipe.com/CustomerSuccessPlaybook
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kevin metzger (00:05):
Customer success.
Roman Trebon (00:10):
Welcome back to the Customer Success Playbook
podcast.
I'm your host, Roman Reon.
Join with me as always as myco-host Kevin Metzker.
We're wrapping up our terrificthree-part series with
communication expert MarySchmidt.
So far we've covered the art oftruly listening to clients and
the power of empathy andcultivating trust.
(00:31):
It's been a great week.
If you've missed any of ourepisodes, go back and make sure
you check'em out today.
It's all about technology,Kevin.
It's AI Friday.
We made it through the week andwe're gonna talk about whether
AI is, is gonna help or hinderthese trust building
conversations.
Kev, you excited to, uh, for AIFriday?
Kevin metzger (00:53):
I'm always excited for AI Friday.
I am fascinated by AI and thinkit's such an interesting tool,
but conversations from thisweek, I think just play in human
versus machine and, and empathy.
And can these LLMs reallydevelop, emulate empathy?
And so Mary, I'm excited to talkto you about this.
So, uh, AI is impactingeverything from client
(01:15):
onboarding to portfoliomanagement.
But can these tools actuallydeepen relationships and improve
communication or basically.
Is there a risk, um, ofbasically becoming too
automated?
What do you think?
Mary Schmid (01:28):
I think it's a yes.
And first of all, I think the l,the LM LS will never, they can
stimulate human learning problemsolving, but they can ne but
they can't feel, I.
Not yet anyway.
So they cannot feel, there willalways be the room for the
professional to use AI tounderstand maybe some data
(01:51):
insights, make your workflowbetter, but it will never
replace the points at times ifpeople wanna reach out, talked,
will a real human being.
Feel the empathy, feel theemotion, and connect as a human
being to another human being.
Now, I think the AI and many ofthe, um.
Technological enhancements thatare happening are absolutely
fabulous, and we can't livewithout'em.
(02:14):
Well, we can, but if we'removing into the future, we're
not gonna be as effective orefficient as we can.
And so everyone says, you know,you need to be effective using
it so that you can spend moretime with the clients.
Well, that's true, and I thinkthere's a whole set of tasks
that we can give to it that wecan automate and streamline, but
when it comes down to it, weneed, we can automate and
(02:35):
streamline tasks.
We can get insights andinformation and analysis from.
Different products, differenttechnological advances, but what
happens with that?
At the end of the day, at theend of all of this, you and I
need to take that data and theinsights and translate that into
a way that our clients, ourstaff, our vendors understand.
Roman Trebon (03:00):
I agree.
Have, you're gonna, I know youhave a, an ai, you usually have
a fire off our first AIquestion, so I'm, uh, I'll, I'll
defer to you on this first one.
Before I jump in?
Kevin metzger (03:10):
Yeah, no, I think it's an interesting question
because this to me is, we'restarting to get into
philosophically.
Mm-hmm.
Where does it make sense to useai?
It, it can do a lot of things,and while it cannot be
empathetic, it can emulateempathy.
Um, as, as they're advancing,they're getting better at it.
Roman Trebon (03:29):
Mm-hmm.
Kevin metzger (03:30):
Correct.
But that, but you're right,right.
They're not feeling, at least asfar as we know, they're not,
they're emulating neuronetworks, which is what our
brain is.
Mm-hmm.
But they still are programmaticand they're still looking at all
the information in their brainand how the ideas are related to
each other in their, their,their artificial brain.
(03:53):
I don't think, although they'reeven starting to talk about, uh,
I was reading an article thisweekend about AI boyfriends and
girlfriends, which blows mymind.
Um, apparently in Japan it'sstarting to become actually
somewhat happening.
Oh my gosh.
Like people, wow, that's insane.
That means people are somehowfeeling as though they're being
(04:16):
related to, as we drive intothis, where's it going to be
appropriate to use the.
Ai, AI emulated empathy andsolutioning because a lot of the
solutioning is going to be good,and the empathy is okay, it's
emulated, but if it makes youfeel comfortable, then should
(04:38):
you move forward using it?
Or where do you, as a business,and let alone as a business, as
a person, where do you say thisis okay?
And that this isn't, and I, Irealize this is.
This is beyond, this is probablybeyond, you know, what, what we
came in to talk about, but, butthere's, there's neuroscience
behind it and I, you, you're,you're more of an expert on it
(05:02):
than I am, so I'd love to hearyour thoughts on it.
Mary Schmid (05:05):
Think ai, and I've tried it.
I mean, I play with it because Ifind it utterly fascinating.
And what it helps me to do isnot to be so long-winded and get
to the point.
Yeah.
Roman Trebon (05:16):
Yeah.
Because
Mary Schmid (05:17):
I can write and write and talk and talk, but I
simply say, what's the maintheme?
Here's what I'm writing, here'swhat I'm saying.
What's the main theme?
But help me to hone in and.
Construct something that makessense in a few words.
So it helps me that way.
When I, um, also played with itin terms of like, what do I say
if I wanna build trust, I findit to be very prescriptive and
(05:38):
very rote.
Empathy is the ability to feelother people's feelings.
Okay, how do I demonstrate it?
You must, and it just gives meprescriptions based on what it,
what it researches from theinternet.
And so I don't find anythingreally quite new or exciting
about that.
Um.
That in that way, and I don'tquite know.
(05:58):
I think it's something we willgrapple with, um, as a society
is will it really replace Yeah.
That human connection.
'cause I think in conversationsin human connection, there are
so many nuances.
It's the way you look at me,it's the way you tilt your head.
It's the way that you positionyour body.
It's that grimace.
There's so many nonverbal thingsthat cue me into what you might
(06:23):
be thinking that help me to leadthe conversation that I'm not
sure AI can do that.
Roman Trebon (06:29):
It's gonna be interesting.
I, you know, in, in the shortterm, I think AI at times makes
me a, a worse listener.
And, and here's why, because I,I, I have a transcript of the
conversation.
Mm-hmm.
Like when I, I have a summary ofwhat was said.
So before ai, I'm completelylocked into the conversation.
(06:51):
I'm writing notes.
You know, I'm, I'm trying toconnect as I listen nowadays,
it's, it's like, well, I havethree things to do.
I'm gonna get a summary.
Like, do I need to be as lockedinto the car?
I'll be honest, I'll, there'stimes where probably in the
short term erodes my listeningskills because it's, uh, it's
too much of a crutch for me attimes because.
(07:14):
I will have the recap.
I will have all the notes.
I don't have to be as engaged,so that, that's something for me
as ai.
I think in the short term, whilethere is efficiencies where I
can have mm-hmm.
Double the meetings I can thanbefore because I, you know,
because I don't have to do allthe notes summary, I don't have
to summarize them.
It's, that's all thatefficiency's.
Great.
So I can double the meetings.
(07:36):
Does it make me a betterlistener in the short term?
I don't know.
It's interesting there.
It's, it's probably a lot ofpros and cons, right?
Some, some positives.
Yeah, some, some trade offs as,as technology, uh, evolves.
Mary Schmid (07:47):
I appreciate that perspective because that's what
AI and many of the technologyenhancements our build is doing.
We will free you up so that youcan connect better, listen
better, engage better with thepeople that you're doing
business with.
And so I think that's aninteresting perspective.
Does it really help us toconnect better by freeing us up
from the tasks that we wouldnormally have to do by writing
(08:09):
our summaries and writing ournotes and doing all that?
Or do we get a little lazy.
Roman Trebon (08:16):
That's exactly the right word.
It, it, it's, it definitelycreates efficiencies.
It, it, it definitely opens upbandwidth.
But does it, does it help meconnect any better?
I don't know about that.
I don't know about that.
It's interesting.
Kevin metzger (08:29):
Yeah.
It's almost like you've got a,if you're using it properly to
connect than you've got itthere.
It's recording.
You choose to be fully engagedif you don't choose to be fully
engaged because, well, it'srecording and now I can
multitask and let my brain skipto the 30,000 other things that
(08:50):
happen.
Now it's, it's actually takingaway from that engagement as a
person, which is even worse.
Yeah.
Roman Trebon (08:59):
Yeah, and this is definitely me calling out
myself, right?
Like this is, if you arerecording and using ai, you can
still be a great listener.
This is, this is me using AIalmost as like, again, it's like
a crutch, right?
Because it's there and it will,it will provide some of the
stuff that allows me tomultitask, which then loses my
focus from the actualconversation trying to connect
(09:19):
what Mary has been talking to usabout all week.
Mary Schmid (09:21):
You got lazy, easy, got lazy and that, and I think,
but I think you, um, Kevin, Ithink you identified a really
key piece of it, and that is howpresent do I choose to be?
You see, without presence, noneof this works.
And, and it could be because I,I don't have to be present
because I've got AI or evenwithout a y, how ai, how.
(09:44):
Present do I choose to be?
And how do I get me and my brainready to be present?
Because that's the key.
That's the key.
Am I present to listen to theother person?
Am I be present to use my eyes,my ears, my heart to understand
what they're saying?
Am I present to think about howI'm coming across and how I want
(10:04):
them to feel as a result oftalking with me?
Roman Trebon (10:08):
Yeah, yeah.
That presence is key, evenoutside of the ai, right?
Like you take AI outta theequation.
I can be completely not presenteven without ai, right?
I'm worried about the meetingthat just happened.
I'm thinking about the soccerpractice carpool I need to go
to, right?
So I'm, um, my brain is driftingin different places instead of
being completely present.
Um, and, and really locked intocreating that connection, which
(10:30):
is what again, what, what we'vebeen talking about all week.
Yes.
So this has been great.
I, Mary, I can't thank youenough for coming on the show.
I've learned a ton.
Kevin, I'm, I'll speak, I don'twanna speak for you, but I know
you enjoyed the conversation aswell.
Course.
Yeah, absolutely.
Kevin metzger (10:44):
Yeah, no, it was fantastic.
Thank you, Mary.
Oh, my pleasure.
Roman Trebon (10:48):
So I know who I'm gonna call when next time I go
scuba diving.
Mary, I'm gonna call you forsome tips on, on scuba.
So this is, this is great.
I learned that.
Alright, uh, Mary, um, for ouraudience, where can they find,
uh, find more about yourconversational edge strategy
where, what you're up to?
Uh, you can find you onLinkedIn, right?
Anywhere else?
Yeah, they
Mary Schmid (11:07):
find me on LinkedIn.
For your listeners and only foryour listeners, I've created a,
a document that really captureswhat we've talked about today,
and they can getthat@maryschmid.com slash.
CSB.
Roman Trebon (11:22):
Ah, love it.
Thank you.
Me.
Audience, special treat.
Yes, we'll promote that as well.
So we'll promote that.
It'll be in our show notes.
So Mary, thank you for that.
Our audience, reach out to Mary,check her out on LinkedIn.
And definitely if you've, ifyou've liked what you heard this
week, lean in more.
I know I'm going to after thisconversation.
This has been, this has beenterrific.
(11:42):
Uh, and that's a wrap for ourmini series with Mary Schmidt.
If these insights resonate withyou, please subscribe to the
show, rate it, share the showwith your friends or colleagues.
Mm-hmm.
It really helps Kevin and Ispread these valuable
conversations to others in thecustomer success field.
Uh, we'll be back next week withmore tips and strategies for
your customer success playbook.
(12:03):
Kevin's been a great week.
Until next time, keep onplaying.
Customer success.
Roman Trebon (00:10):
Welcome back to the Customer Success Playbook
podcast.
I'm your host, Roman Reon.
Join with me as always as myco-host Kevin Metzker.
We're wrapping up our terrificthree-part series with
communication expert MarySchmidt.
So far we've covered the art oftruly listening to clients and
the power of empathy andcultivating trust.
(00:31):
It's been a great week.
If you've missed any of ourepisodes, go back and make sure
you check'em out today.
It's all about technology,Kevin.
It's AI Friday.
We made it through the week andwe're gonna talk about whether
AI is, is gonna help or hinderthese trust building
conversations.
Kev, you excited to, uh, for AIFriday?
Kevin metzger (00:53):
I'm always excited for AI Friday.
I am fascinated by AI and thinkit's such an interesting tool,
but conversations from thisweek, I think just play in human
versus machine and, and empathy.
And can these LLMs reallydevelop, emulate empathy?
And so Mary, I'm excited to talkto you about this.
So, uh, AI is impactingeverything from client
(01:15):
onboarding to portfoliomanagement.
But can these tools actuallydeepen relationships and improve
communication or basically.
Is there a risk, um, ofbasically becoming too
automated?
What do you think?
Mary Schmid (01:28):
I think it's a yes.
And first of all, I think the l,the LM LS will never, they can
stimulate human learning problemsolving, but they can ne but
they can't feel, I.
Not yet anyway.
So they cannot feel, there willalways be the room for the
professional to use AI tounderstand maybe some data
(01:51):
insights, make your workflowbetter, but it will never
replace the points at times ifpeople wanna reach out, talked,
will a real human being.
Feel the empathy, feel theemotion, and connect as a human
being to another human being.
Now, I think the AI and many ofthe, um.
Technological enhancements thatare happening are absolutely
fabulous, and we can't livewithout'em.
(02:14):
Well, we can, but if we'removing into the future, we're
not gonna be as effective orefficient as we can.
And so everyone says, you know,you need to be effective using
it so that you can spend moretime with the clients.
Well, that's true, and I thinkthere's a whole set of tasks
that we can give to it that wecan automate and streamline, but
when it comes down to it, weneed, we can automate and
(02:35):
streamline tasks.
We can get insights andinformation and analysis from.
Different products, differenttechnological advances, but what
happens with that?
At the end of the day, at theend of all of this, you and I
need to take that data and theinsights and translate that into
a way that our clients, ourstaff, our vendors understand.
Roman Trebon (03:00):
I agree.
Have, you're gonna, I know youhave a, an ai, you usually have
a fire off our first AIquestion, so I'm, uh, I'll, I'll
defer to you on this first one.
Before I jump in?
Kevin metzger (03:10):
Yeah, no, I think it's an interesting question
because this to me is, we'restarting to get into
philosophically.
Mm-hmm.
Where does it make sense to useai?
It, it can do a lot of things,and while it cannot be
empathetic, it can emulateempathy.
Um, as, as they're advancing,they're getting better at it.
Roman Trebon (03:29):
Mm-hmm.
Kevin metzger (03:30):
Correct.
But that, but you're right,right.
They're not feeling, at least asfar as we know, they're not,
they're emulating neuronetworks, which is what our
brain is.
Mm-hmm.
But they still are programmaticand they're still looking at all
the information in their brainand how the ideas are related to
each other in their, their,their artificial brain.
(03:53):
I don't think, although they'reeven starting to talk about, uh,
I was reading an article thisweekend about AI boyfriends and
girlfriends, which blows mymind.
Um, apparently in Japan it'sstarting to become actually
somewhat happening.
Oh my gosh.
Like people, wow, that's insane.
That means people are somehowfeeling as though they're being
(04:16):
related to, as we drive intothis, where's it going to be
appropriate to use the.
Ai, AI emulated empathy andsolutioning because a lot of the
solutioning is going to be good,and the empathy is okay, it's
emulated, but if it makes youfeel comfortable, then should
(04:38):
you move forward using it?
Or where do you, as a business,and let alone as a business, as
a person, where do you say thisis okay?
And that this isn't, and I, Irealize this is.
This is beyond, this is probablybeyond, you know, what, what we
came in to talk about, but, butthere's, there's neuroscience
behind it and I, you, you're,you're more of an expert on it
(05:02):
than I am, so I'd love to hearyour thoughts on it.
Mary Schmid (05:05):
Think ai, and I've tried it.
I mean, I play with it because Ifind it utterly fascinating.
And what it helps me to do isnot to be so long-winded and get
to the point.
Yeah.
Roman Trebon (05:16):
Yeah.
Because
Mary Schmid (05:17):
I can write and write and talk and talk, but I
simply say, what's the maintheme?
Here's what I'm writing, here'swhat I'm saying.
What's the main theme?
But help me to hone in and.
Construct something that makessense in a few words.
So it helps me that way.
When I, um, also played with itin terms of like, what do I say
if I wanna build trust, I findit to be very prescriptive and
(05:38):
very rote.
Empathy is the ability to feelother people's feelings.
Okay, how do I demonstrate it?
You must, and it just gives meprescriptions based on what it,
what it researches from theinternet.
And so I don't find anythingreally quite new or exciting
about that.
Um.
That in that way, and I don'tquite know.
(05:58):
I think it's something we willgrapple with, um, as a society
is will it really replace Yeah.
That human connection.
'cause I think in conversationsin human connection, there are
so many nuances.
It's the way you look at me,it's the way you tilt your head.
It's the way that you positionyour body.
It's that grimace.
There's so many nonverbal thingsthat cue me into what you might
(06:23):
be thinking that help me to leadthe conversation that I'm not
sure AI can do that.
Roman Trebon (06:29):
It's gonna be interesting.
I, you know, in, in the shortterm, I think AI at times makes
me a, a worse listener.
And, and here's why, because I,I, I have a transcript of the
conversation.
Mm-hmm.
Like when I, I have a summary ofwhat was said.
So before ai, I'm completelylocked into the conversation.
(06:51):
I'm writing notes.
You know, I'm, I'm trying toconnect as I listen nowadays,
it's, it's like, well, I havethree things to do.
I'm gonna get a summary.
Like, do I need to be as lockedinto the car?
I'll be honest, I'll, there'stimes where probably in the
short term erodes my listeningskills because it's, uh, it's
too much of a crutch for me attimes because.
(07:14):
I will have the recap.
I will have all the notes.
I don't have to be as engaged,so that, that's something for me
as ai.
I think in the short term, whilethere is efficiencies where I
can have mm-hmm.
Double the meetings I can thanbefore because I, you know,
because I don't have to do allthe notes summary, I don't have
to summarize them.
It's, that's all thatefficiency's.
Great.
So I can double the meetings.
(07:36):
Does it make me a betterlistener in the short term?
I don't know.
It's interesting there.
It's, it's probably a lot ofpros and cons, right?
Some, some positives.
Yeah, some, some trade offs as,as technology, uh, evolves.
Mary Schmid (07:47):
I appreciate that perspective because that's what
AI and many of the technologyenhancements our build is doing.
We will free you up so that youcan connect better, listen
better, engage better with thepeople that you're doing
business with.
And so I think that's aninteresting perspective.
Does it really help us toconnect better by freeing us up
from the tasks that we wouldnormally have to do by writing
(08:09):
our summaries and writing ournotes and doing all that?
Or do we get a little lazy.
Roman Trebon (08:16):
That's exactly the right word.
It, it, it's, it definitelycreates efficiencies.
It, it, it definitely opens upbandwidth.
But does it, does it help meconnect any better?
I don't know about that.
I don't know about that.
It's interesting.
Kevin metzger (08:29):
Yeah.
It's almost like you've got a,if you're using it properly to
connect than you've got itthere.
It's recording.
You choose to be fully engagedif you don't choose to be fully
engaged because, well, it'srecording and now I can
multitask and let my brain skipto the 30,000 other things that
(08:50):
happen.
Now it's, it's actually takingaway from that engagement as a
person, which is even worse.
Yeah.
Roman Trebon (08:59):
Yeah, and this is definitely me calling out
myself, right?
Like this is, if you arerecording and using ai, you can
still be a great listener.
This is, this is me using AIalmost as like, again, it's like
a crutch, right?
Because it's there and it will,it will provide some of the
stuff that allows me tomultitask, which then loses my
focus from the actualconversation trying to connect
(09:19):
what Mary has been talking to usabout all week.
Mary Schmid (09:21):
You got lazy, easy, got lazy and that, and I think,
but I think you, um, Kevin, Ithink you identified a really
key piece of it, and that is howpresent do I choose to be?
You see, without presence, noneof this works.
And, and it could be because I,I don't have to be present
because I've got AI or evenwithout a y, how ai, how.
(09:44):
Present do I choose to be?
And how do I get me and my brainready to be present?
Because that's the key.
That's the key.
Am I present to listen to theother person?
Am I be present to use my eyes,my ears, my heart to understand
what they're saying?
Am I present to think about howI'm coming across and how I want
(10:04):
them to feel as a result oftalking with me?
Roman Trebon (10:08):
Yeah, yeah.
That presence is key, evenoutside of the ai, right?
Like you take AI outta theequation.
I can be completely not presenteven without ai, right?
I'm worried about the meetingthat just happened.
I'm thinking about the soccerpractice carpool I need to go
to, right?
So I'm, um, my brain is driftingin different places instead of
being completely present.
Um, and, and really locked intocreating that connection, which
(10:30):
is what again, what, what we'vebeen talking about all week.
Yes.
So this has been great.
I, Mary, I can't thank youenough for coming on the show.
I've learned a ton.
Kevin, I'm, I'll speak, I don'twanna speak for you, but I know
you enjoyed the conversation aswell.
Course.
Yeah, absolutely.
Kevin metzger (10:44):
Yeah, no, it was fantastic.
Thank you, Mary.
Oh, my pleasure.
Roman Trebon (10:48):
So I know who I'm gonna call when next time I go
scuba diving.
Mary, I'm gonna call you forsome tips on, on scuba.
So this is, this is great.
I learned that.
Alright, uh, Mary, um, for ouraudience, where can they find,
uh, find more about yourconversational edge strategy
where, what you're up to?
Uh, you can find you onLinkedIn, right?
Anywhere else?
Yeah, they
Mary Schmid (11:07):
find me on LinkedIn.
For your listeners and only foryour listeners, I've created a,
a document that really captureswhat we've talked about today,
and they can getthat@maryschmid.com slash.
CSB.
Roman Trebon (11:22):
Ah, love it.
Thank you.
Me.
Audience, special treat.
Yes, we'll promote that as well.
So we'll promote that.
It'll be in our show notes.
So Mary, thank you for that.
Our audience, reach out to Mary,check her out on LinkedIn.
And definitely if you've, ifyou've liked what you heard this
week, lean in more.
I know I'm going to after thisconversation.
This has been, this has beenterrific.
(11:42):
Uh, and that's a wrap for ourmini series with Mary Schmidt.
If these insights resonate withyou, please subscribe to the
show, rate it, share the showwith your friends or colleagues.
Mm-hmm.
It really helps Kevin and Ispread these valuable
conversations to others in thecustomer success field.
Uh, we'll be back next week withmore tips and strategies for
your customer success playbook.
(12:03):
Kevin's been a great week.
Until next time, keep onplaying.
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