Episode 207 with Bill Myers and Max Ceron

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
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Happy welding.
Hello and welcome to anotheredition of the CWB Association
podcast.
My name is Max Ceron and, asalways, I'm out there scouring

(01:08):
this globe of ours for the mostfantastic stories I can find.
Today we have a wonderful guestcoming to us from sunny Arizona
, and this is Bill Myers, who isthe National Program Director
of the Skilled Trades.
How's it going today, bill?

Speaker 3 (01:22):
Oh, it's going great.
Max, how are?

Speaker 1 (01:24):
you doing?
I'm doing fantastic.
You know, I'm sitting in mysteel mill here, my AI generated
steel mill, but outside I gottwo feet of snow and it's coming
down right now.
Not like that in Arizona, Iassume.

Speaker 3 (01:36):
No, it's a little sunny here.
You know I won't tell you thetemperature since you're looking
at snow, but I think we'regoing to be in the seventies.

Speaker 1 (01:45):
So, bill, let's talk a little bit about you know who
you are and where you come from.
I I read on your bio here that,um, you know you're based out
of the greater Phoenix arearight now.
Is that where?

Speaker 3 (02:01):
you're from?
Is that your roots?
You know where.
Where did a young Bill comefrom?
Young Bill came from uh Tolledo, ohio, the glass capital of the
world, when I was there I don'tknow what- they are now um, I
have been back in quite sometime, you know, because of the
two feet of snow on the groundthing.
But, um, I started out going toa vocational high school.
They didn't really do thatanymore.

(02:21):
I don't know why they got awayfrom it I guess there's some
here and there but I went to avocational high school, took
welding.
Um, they had a great programthere that, if you finish,
because you took high schoolthere for three years for
welding- okay so you started outyour sophomore or your freshman
year.
You went through weldingmachine shop and drafting back,

(02:43):
when they still drafted.

Speaker 1 (02:44):
That sounds like a great program though.

Speaker 3 (02:48):
It was, yeah, it was.
You went to welding after yourfreshman year.
You picked one of those threeto go into Went into welding.
You go welding shop once a weekfor that whole week.
The other week you went to theregular high school classes that
you had to take.
You know science, english, math, algebra, all that stuff.

(03:09):
Uh, by the time you were asenior.
If you finish everything with ahigh enough grade in welding,
they put you on what they calledco-opping.
So you went to work forsomebody for that week.
You were supposed to go towelding and then came back to
school and finished high schoolthe other week.
So it was a great way to getyour foot in the door of a

(03:30):
company when you were stillgoing to high school and then,
once high school was over, thatcompany could, you know, keep
you on as a full-time employeeor cut you loose.
So they ended up keeping me asa full-time employee and I
worked there for 20 years beforeI relocated down here to
arizona so 20 years withbasically the first company that

(03:51):
sniped you out of high schoolyep that is something that in
itself is unheard of I know it's.
You know people don't do thatanymore.
You know they'll leave acompany for a quarter raise.
Every now and then you hearabout that and it's like like no
, you didn't build up anything.
You know you gotta, you gottastay there.
And um, I, I was always wantingto move to Arizona and I

(04:13):
actually waited two yearsbecause I actually resigned on
the exact same day that Istarted, 20 years before.
So I wanted to put get that 20years in at that company, you
know, but I started out as awelder.
Um well, we welded everything.
You know.
It's not like today, where alot of people get into okay, you

(04:35):
only a MIG welder, or you onlya stick welder, or you only a
TIG welder.
We built things thatencompassed all the welding
processes, including spotwelding, you know.
So we did everything and youwere handed a set of prints and
said here, go make this.
Yeah.
It's not like, hey, this guy'sgoing to give you this part,

(04:55):
that guy's going to cut thatpart.
You did everything, from startto finish, and you learned a lot
doing that.

Speaker 1 (05:04):
Yeah, like I mean, mean, those types of shops exist
but they're generally in likethat custom, you know, cost plus
type of world of ofmanufacturing generally, like I,
you know I've worked in shopslike that where it's, you know,
just plates of steel rolling andyou got to build form, cut and
do everything yourself.
But I don't know if the worldreally builds like that anymore.

(05:26):
You know it's, it's notefficient, like first of all,
it's not efficient and we allknow that at all right, but but
there is something about custom.
You know, as soon as you saycustom or a one-off, you know
it's going to cost you threetimes the money, but there's a
reason for it to be custom,right oh yeah now for yourself
what, what kind of stuff wereyou doing?
What was getting built in thatplant?

Speaker 3 (05:45):
well that that plant was basically um building stuff
for automation okay so it was.
You know that was in the 70s.
I don't want to date myself toobad, but that was in the 70s,
in the 80s, when people wereramping up to do exactly what
you're talking about makeeverything automated to where

(06:06):
you didn't have one person doingall of that job.
You had, you know, a wholebunch of people that were
involved in building something,whether it was one thing or
whether it was a hundred things.
You had a whole bunch of people, but we did all kind of
automation for anheuser-busch,for, uh, libya, owens, ford, for
all the glass makers, foranybody that was getting into

(06:30):
automation, uh, goodyear, tireand rubber.
There were so many companiesback then that we were just so
busy.
One year we worked 360 days.
Yeah, you know, if you wantedto work, then work was there,
you know, and and it's stillgoing it's just not as big as it
was, yeah.
So it was like you know, hey,you got to get here, you got to

(06:53):
do this, you got to do that.
We did a lot of stuff for, uh,the nuclear industry back then
was starting to take off youknow, so we did a lot of work
for babcock and Wilcox, whichwas in Cleveland, a big supplier
of nuclear control panels andautomation and stuff like that.
So it was a good lesson in alot of different areas.

Speaker 1 (07:16):
Well, ohio is a really neat state in terms of
its capacity for manufacturingthe space.
It has a fairly low cost ofdoing business in the state um,
and it's not have, like, notoverly populated like lots of
the other states are.
So people can find jobs andI've interviewed a lot of people
from ohio.
Actually, I'm going to be incolumbus tomorrow, but you know,

(07:37):
it's um, it's um.
It's one of those states wherethere's a lot of work, not a lot
of people.
So I always hear people findingjobs and kind of sticking
around.
You know what I mean, yep.

Speaker 3 (07:47):
Yeah, they do there's .
There's quite a few people thatyou know I've run into in Ohio
that have stayed at the same jobfor a long period of time.
Now, it's usually the oldergeneration, but even some of the
younger generation.
When they get into a good placeto work in Ohio, they stay
there, you know, because thecompanies treat them well, they
pay them good.

(08:07):
You know it's a, it's aunionized you know, state.
So that kind of helps with that.
Um.
And then on the other side, youknow you come to Arizona and
people don't stay at a job, youknow.

Speaker 1 (08:24):
So surprised at the difference between the mentality
of how it was in Arizona versuswhat I came from in Ohio, Well,
you know, you see that allaround the world, based on the
population, the industry, rightLike in Canada where I live,
we're in the prairies.
You know I'm north of NorthDakota, so you know we have
agricultural, mining, you knowwe have a little bit of oil and
gas.
All those jobs kind of arelifer jobs, you know.

(08:47):
You get into mining oh yeah,mining's kind of a forever job.
You get into ag, that's kind ofa forever job.
You get out to the coasts andthe work seems a lot more
transient, right.

Speaker 3 (08:57):
Yep, and there are some of those.
You know mining jobs here inArizona.
You know there's a lot ofcopper and you know they still
pump that stuff out and a lot ofpeople like to, especially in
the welding world, like to runthe shutdown.

(09:17):
You know, when a lot of thosepower companies shut down and
stuff, they go in there, do therepairs, move on to the next one
because they can get paidreally well.
Six months out of the year andthen go.
You know what I'm going to waitto the next one, because they
can get paid really well, we'resix months out of the year and
then go.
You know what?
I'm going to wait for the nextround of shutdowns.
And they follow the shutdownand they make a good living at
it and you know work six monthsout of the year.

Speaker 1 (09:34):
Well, absolutely.
I remember picking up shutdownsand you know you'd, uh, you'd
have, uh you'd make enough moneyin one month.
Take a couple months off, right.
Enough money in one month.
Take a couple months off RightNow.
Now for yourself, you know,coming up in Ohio, uh, before
you got into this kind ofvocational program with your
high school, did you know, ordid you already have access to

(09:57):
what the trades were?
You know, was it in your family?
Was it something you had seen,or did you just kind of fall
into it?

Speaker 3 (10:05):
Well, here's how it was.
You know I was in a one workingparent household.
My dad was a tool and die maker.
So of course you know, youlearn about trades, you learn
about holding the light out atnight while your dad's under the
car trying to fix it.
I'm sure you've heard thatstory from a whole lot of people

(10:27):
before where you fixed your owncar, you changed your own oil,
you did all those things on yourown and he worked at night and
I seen him and I seen what hedid at work and I wasn't really
wanting to go into tool and diemaking, but when I was there I
seen a guy heating up one ofthose dyes or one of those big

(10:50):
presses to get ready to weld ityou know, because it had broken
and that just really kind ofcaught my fancy.
And then when I got a chance togo to that school because it was
one of those schools where youhad to take an aptitude test to
get in- make sure you were, youknow, handy with tools and knew
about safety and stuff like that.
I really wanted to go intodrafting.

Speaker 1 (11:10):
Okay, yeah.

Speaker 3 (11:11):
But then when I you know because, like I said, you
go into drafting machine shopand welding your freshman year.
And then when I got to welding.
This is where I tell people theperson teaching you is the most
important person.
That person can sway you oneway or another and while I loved
drafting and I went back to itwhen it, you know, became CAD

(11:33):
and uh, pro E and followed worksand stuff like that, that guy
was dry.
Yeah.
I don't know if you ever talkedto a draftsman that used to
draft but those guys are dry.
But that welding instructor wasso energetic and so captivating
that it was like you know what?
I'm going to stick with welding.

Speaker 1 (11:54):
That's amazing.
And then you know you had that,you know, a solid 20 year run.
And this is something as aCanadian that sometimes I get a
little bit confused of in termsof terminology in the US.
But you know, you say thatyou're a certified welder and
fabricator.
Right Now, for myself in Canada, for me to become a certified

(12:16):
welder and fabricator, it wasthree years of school for
welding and four years of schoolfor fabrication to get my red
seals.
In the U?
S they don't really have thoseprograms set up like that.
So how does one become acertified welder and fabricator
in the U?
S?

Speaker 3 (12:33):
So there's really no certified fabricator thing.
There's no you know, there'sschools that you could go to to
learn fabrication and peoplewill hand you some little
certificate that says you took afabricating class but it's not
like diploma that you can usearound the world yeah, it's not
like that okay, so but certifiedwelder in the united states

(12:56):
means that you went and took atest at a third party place.
That person then tested thatweld under whatever those
guidelines were and you passthat test so that's how you
become a certified welder.
Now there's, you know, the awsapi.

Speaker 1 (13:14):
There's you know all of them, yep all of those
certificates.

Speaker 3 (13:18):
That's.
The only way you can become acertified welder in the us is by
passing one of those tests.

Speaker 1 (13:24):
Okay, cool, cool.
And then the shop you workedfor, I assume, was probably
under the guise of one of thosecompanies, so it would have been
like you know as me, or AWS D,one one, or something like that.

Speaker 3 (13:35):
And well, what we did was we had a certification
company actually come to theshop.
I see, okay, so whenever,whenever one of our guys would
need certified for something,they would come to the shop.
I see, okay, so whenever,whenever one of our guys would
need certified for something,they would come into the shop,
watch you do the weld and takethose pieces with okay, cool, so
you know.
And then they would go testthem and then give you the

(13:55):
results and give you a paperworkwhen you were done now, in the
20 years you were there, I doubtyou did the same job for 20
years.

Speaker 1 (14:02):
You know you.
By the time you left there, itsounds sounds like you were
ready to move on to the otherside of the desk.
So what was the progressionlike within that company?

Speaker 3 (14:10):
So it was you start out after they, you know, hire
you um full time.
Of course you're still going toget stuck with that same grunt
work that you were doing as ahigh school student and and and
it.
You know.
A lot of it has to do with luck.
You know it's, you have theskill, but how does that person

(14:31):
that hired you at 17, mind, youknow that you have the skill to
do that job Well, somebody keptcalling out sick and then
finally, they came over to meand said look this calling out
sick.
We know you went to weldingschool, let's see if you can
weld this.
And then, when you do that, andyou do that again, and you do
that again, the next thing, youknow, the guy that keeps calling

(14:54):
out gets canned and you takehis place.
That does happen it happens.
That's exactly what happened youknow it was no.
You know there was no like.
Oh you know, hey, right out ofhigh school you're gonna go
start to weld on these things.
It was just my chance came alittle earlier because that guy
didn't show up to work.
Yeah right place right timeyeah yeah, and then what I did?

(15:18):
What most people need tounderstand is pay attention to
what everyone else there isdoing because, you're going to
learn so much from watchingeveryone else and what their job
is.
Do I now know how to do his job?
Do I now know how to do his job?
And pretty soon they're going.
Hey, you're ready to startfabricating something, because

(15:38):
you sat there and spent the timeto learn what all these other
pieces were to take now.
Yes, welding school gave me theskills to oxy fuel cut back then
, we still oxy fuel welded uhyou know, we did wire welding,
stick welding, tig welding youknow the three major ones that
are in school and you made somelittle things here there, but

(15:59):
you didn't really learnfabrication as a whole yeah, you
know, and you're not reallyready to hone your craft.

Speaker 1 (16:05):
that comes with time, right.

Speaker 3 (16:06):
Exactly.
So then it was okay, you knowyou've done really well at this,
and I think that was only 26 or27.
And they said hey, we want youto be the night shift foreman.
Okay.
Yeah, that pays more money.
I take it.
Yeah, a lot more money.
Okay, I'll do that.
And then you know, you steadilyget better and they go.
You know what?

(16:27):
We want you to be on the dayshift now and we're going to put
another guy on the night shift.
Then the next thing, you know,you know, people start moving
and leaving and the plantmanager left.
And then they came to me andsaid, how would you like to be
the plant manager?
And I was like, well, you know,my plan was to leave here in
about six years, but you know,for six years I'll be the plant

(16:47):
manager.
So that's what happened.

Speaker 1 (16:49):
You know it's interesting.
You bring up the, that wholeaspect of you know biding your
time, and then you brought upnight shift.
That's actually come up on thisprogram a few times.
One of the things I hear fromemployers often is how the this
incoming generation is lessinclined to want to work shift
work or weekends or evenings andstuff like that, and it's

(17:11):
something that I have to alwaysreiterate to the youth.
I did eight years of nightshift in order to break that
ceiling and to get intomanagement.
Same thing yep, you want to trymanagement.
Try it on nights.
You're going to be the nightshift foreman until you're ready
.
Then you move to days, causethat's when all the headaches
are right there you go Exactly.
And so I did my time at nightsand I had two young kids and I,

(17:34):
you know, I did the whole thing.
I even went through a divorceduring this time, like it was
not a great time, but you'retelling my story I do.
All welders have the same storyso then I so then, you know, I
ended up having to, and then Iworked my way through it.
Right, I worked my way throughit and got to where I needed to
be, and I I always find it soimportant to iterate to the

(17:54):
young people that are coming inthat you have to be willing to
work the shift.
You have to be willing to doeither the switch shifts or the
night shifts or the weekends.
Basically, whatever you getoffered, you take it and you do
the best you can at it.
That's the only way to getahead, you know yeah, you're,
yeah, you're absolutely right.

Speaker 3 (18:16):
If you don't and and we'll get into it in the next
half, but if you don't put in,you're not going to get anything
out of right you have to see.
What you're going to get out ofsomething is what you put into
it.
So if you don't put in, you'renot going to get anything out of
it.
Right, you have to.
What you're going to get out ofsomething is what you put into
it.
So if you don't want to move up, if you don't want to be a
manager, then stay a welder.
Let them know you just want tobe a welder and you know you
don't want to move up.
But you know the people that Iyou know that you're talking

(18:40):
about they always want thatinstant gratification where you
know what.
I'm good at this, I'm smart.
Why am I not a manager?
Well, when we ask you to workovertime, you don't work
overtime.
Managers sometimes workovertime because you know that's
what the job entails.
Yeah, you know, because we haveto get the product out the door.
So you know, if you're notwilling to do any of that,

(19:01):
there's nothing wrong withstaying you know a welder your
whole life, if that's what youwant to do.
But if you want to move up,you're going to have to make
sacrifice.
That's right.
Because I made them.
I had the same two little kids.
I went through the divorce, Idid the whole.
You know it.
But it's what you have to do ifyou want to move ahead in that
field.
Yeah, Because there's no otherway for them to gauge you other

(19:24):
than they're looking at you as awelder.
You've got to prove yourself asa leader of these people, and
we're going to start at nightbecause, during the day
everybody gets everything readyfor the people that come in at
night and just do some weldinghere some this there, there's no
real, you know heavy managementtasks being laid out.
Yeah, there's no real, you knowheavy management task being

(19:45):
laid out.

Speaker 1 (19:45):
There's no phone calls ripping all the time yeah,
all the forklifts are free.

Speaker 3 (19:49):
All the cranes are free right yep, nobody's asking
you for delivery dates oranything like that.
You know, because the phone'snot ringing.
You just have to manage thepeople that are there that's
right.

Speaker 1 (20:01):
And and now for yourself?
You know you get offered thatplant manager job that I find
that that step from supervisorto manager is a tough one,
because that's the first timeyou actually have to start
looking in terms of financialresponsibility, right?
Yep, Because up until you getto that manager position or

(20:21):
plant manager position, you'rejust worried about man, hours
and product.
You know, like how many peopleare on, how fast will it take to
get made, what are the problems?
Rework, blah, blah, blah.
Once you get to plant manager,it's now wages and deadlines and
profits and losses, and Wagesdeadlines ordering to make sure
it's there when you need itthere.

Speaker 3 (20:43):
Then you know we were a union shop.
So every three years you're nowmeeting with the bargaining
unit to go hey, what are theraises, what are the benefits,
what are this, you know, andit's like a whole different
thing, but the the thing that Idid when I got put on the days
was I started watching what theplant manager was doing.

(21:04):
What are his duties, what all ishe have to worry about, you
know.
So that kind of helped in a waythat you know a lot of people
get thrust into that positionand are not sure what to do.
Where I was kind of watchingwhat he was doing to make sure
that, hey, if something happens,you know, I can fill in his
shoes if he gets sick, if hegoes on vacation.

(21:27):
I wasn't thinking he wasleaving, so it wasn't about that
, but it was about hey, what ifthis guy's off for a couple
weeks because he gets hurt or hegets sick or something?

Speaker 1 (21:36):
like that so, but yeah, you gotta pay attention
and you want to be ready rightlike this, like I just was
talking to a group out inToronto last month and one of
the questions from the audiencewas you know how do you get
yourself ready for thoseimprovements in your life or to
move up to the next step?
It's like find someone whoalready has that job and watch

(21:57):
what they do.
Right Like they're already doingthe job you want, so pay
attention and then see if youcan do it better.
Right, like that's kind of allyou can do.

Speaker 3 (22:06):
So yeah, I wanted to learn how to run a press break
yeah so after work as a welder,I stayed and watched the guy on
second shift set up a pressbreak.
Figure out how it ran, figurehow you know everything worked
and then you know.
That was one way of gettingmore information and more ways
of learning how to do somethingwithout actually going to school

(22:30):
.
I could get my schooling on thejob.

Speaker 1 (22:34):
And then, with this plant, you know you're at,
you're at your 20 year mark.
Now, like this is a seriousinvestment in your life, right,
yep?
Did you have it in the cards toleave, or what was it that came
up within this time that putthe bug in your ear that it was
time to go on to something else?

Speaker 3 (22:56):
the auto industry in detroit collapsed, starting to
tank, yeah, yeah you've seen it,everybody's seen it yeah well,
I've seen it too and I was likethis was in 95 when I started
looking and I was like, okay, sothis is going down.
There's, you know, peoplestarting to get laid off here

(23:16):
and there.
Now, the 20 years that I worked, I would never laid off one
time.
We never had clothes, we neverdid anything.
If you were good, now, we werelike anyone else.
We had our slow times.
If you were good, now, we werelike anyone else.
We had our slow times.
But if you were good at yourjob, they'd have you paint the
walls and sweep the floor beforethey'd let you go, because they
knew you could find another jobsomewhere, right, so they

(23:37):
didn't want you to go anywhere,so they kept you on.
But then, in you know, 94, 95,it was like, okay, well, the
auto industry starting to moveon from Detroit, things are
starting to go, you know,another direction.
I think it's about time Ilooked for something else, and
if I'm going to do that, I'mgoing to do it in a climate that

(23:59):
I like because I had visited.
Arizona on vacation a few times.
Yeah man, this is great, it'sbooming there's.
You know, nobody was out herein 96.
Yeah, now you can't you know Imean it's.
You can't believe how much I'veseen grown here in the last 26
years.
Wow, it's just unbelievable.

Speaker 4 (24:16):
But yeah, that was what it you know it's just
unbelievable.

Speaker 3 (24:17):
But yeah, that was what you know.
It was just looking ateverything that was going around
in that area and going you knowwhat.

Speaker 1 (24:24):
I think it's time for a change all right, but I
wanted to make sure I hit that20 year mark yeah, and did you
know what you wanted to do?
Like it's not one thing to sayI want to change, but are you
looking for the same type of job?
Are you looking to change typesof career completely?
What were you like?
What were you thinking?

Speaker 3 (24:42):
No, I knew I was going to stay in the
manufacturing field.
You know, there was no doubtthat I was going to do something
in the manufacturing field thatinvolved welding, because it
had consumed 20 years of my life.

Speaker 1 (24:55):
That's what you knew.

Speaker 3 (24:56):
Yeah, I wasn't going to go back to school and learn
something.
I was in the trade for good.
So I had no idea where I wasgoing to go, what I was going to
do.
All I knew is I was moving toArizona, and then I'll figure
out what the job is when I getthere.
That was it.
And a lot of people wouldn't dothat, but I was like you know

(25:17):
what, Grow a pair.
I'm a welder.

Speaker 1 (25:22):
So what was that first job that you got when you
got there All?

Speaker 3 (25:26):
right.
So the first job I started witha company that was an upstart.
They were looking for a weldingforeman.
So yeah, I took a hit on pay.
But but again, it wasn't aboutthe pay at that time.
It was about where do I put myfootprint in?
Yeah, you know what field am Igoing to get into?

(25:47):
So it was a startup forbuilding enclosures.
Again welding and metal for thedot-com crate okay, okay so we
were, we were building datacenters okay at an alarming rate
you know, from 96 to oh about2005, when the dot-com crashed

(26:11):
we were busier than all get outand those are like those modular
data centers that stacktogether with the air
conditioning in them.
Well, more even down from thatis there's an enclosure that
houses all of those servers.
Yeah, all of the servers andeverything else.
We were building those forinside great big data centers.

(26:36):
I mean these rooms were the sizeof that background of yours,
and they were.
They were literally empty.
And we built these cabinetsthat people would come in and
rent from whoever that internetservice provider was and put all
of their servers in there torun their web services or

(26:56):
whatever it was that they wererunning.
And then we did some forindividual companies like sprint
.

Speaker 1 (27:03):
Um, just, telecom or whoever.

Speaker 3 (27:06):
Yeah, yeah, oh yeah, apple was a big company that we
worked for.
You know all of those crazypeople that were starting to get
on the internet for everythingand anything, and so you know, I
stayed uh oh, I think theforeman of the wild shop for
about three months untilsomebody figured out that, hey,

(27:27):
this guy's a lot smarter thanhe's leading on.
And then, the next thing, youknow, I was the plant manager.
Then I moved up to the vp ofmanufacturing within couple
years.
And then I stayed at thatcompany for 15 years.

Speaker 1 (27:41):
Oh, wow.
So the first one was 20.

Speaker 3 (27:43):
The second one was 15 .
And you know I would havestayed there, but the company
just went out of businessbecause the dot com went out of
business.
Right, right we tried to dosome other things and
diversified, but it wasn'tenough to keep that machine
rolling you know we had a lot ofequipment and a lot of stuff.
We, matter of fact, moved someof our manufacturing to Mexico.

(28:07):
So, I was traveling fromArizona to Mexico three times a
week.
Wow, From here it's only a twohour drive yeah um, the only
thing I tell you about that iscross the border back into the
us before two o'clock, becauseafter that everybody and their
brother's trying to cross theborder yeah, yeah, it gets
pretty backed up but yeah,chamberlain, uh, the garage door

(28:29):
people, they do a lot more thangarage door openers.
Uh, they do do the entry gatesfor going into all those parking
spots, like at airports oh,yeah, okay, yeah yeah, so they
do that.
Uh, we did a lot for otiselevator.
Uh, they do elevators andescalators and stuff like that.
Their plant is down there inmexico, so there's a lot of uh

(28:52):
airplane, uh seat made in mexico.
Okay cool.
Yeah, it was.
That was quite interesting.
I mean it didn't last, but youknow, there it was.
That was the end of that 15years so that okay.

Speaker 1 (29:07):
So then, what happened?
So then, because at some pointyou start becoming, you start
getting into education andyou're getting pretty long in
the teeth here already I knowright.

Speaker 3 (29:17):
So what happened was the guy that was the owner of
the company, the actual owner,owner you know, not the guy that
you know comes in and says he'sthe president but really
doesn't own the stock of thecompany.
But the owner, owner, he goes.
You know, for the last 15 yearsI've watched you and I don't
know how you're so patient,especially when you were

(29:39):
teaching people in Mexico how todo all these different jobs
without knowing Spanish.
I go.
Well, it was a lot of picturetaking, a lot of pointing and a
lot of showing and he goes.
You know, you got to thinkabout getting into education and
I took his advice and.

Speaker 1 (29:57):
I went into education getting into education and I
took his advice and I went intoeducation Now.
Did that sort of signal the endof your time on the
manufacturing floor?

Speaker 3 (30:06):
Well, that was 35 years.
On the manufacturing floor, youdo get burnout at a certain
point.
Oh for sure.
Yeah, so you know, that waskind of like my cue to go.
You know what, let me look intothat.

(30:28):
And then when I seen some ofthe places that you know we're
starting to look for instructorsback into education, I was like
you know what this might be.
Ok, you know, let me try it.

Speaker 1 (30:32):
Yeah, awesome.
Well, we're right at the halfhour mark.
This is fantastic.
What we'll do is we'll take ourbreak right now and when we get
back, we'll start down the pathof education and all the roads
that have led you down.
How's that sound?

Speaker 3 (30:46):
That sounds great.

Speaker 1 (30:47):
All right, so don't go anywhere Anywhere.
Anyone that's listening, followalong here.
We're just going to take aquick break for our advertisers
and our supporters here on theCWB Association podcast.
We here on the CWB Associationpodcast, we'll be back right
after this message.
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And we are back here on the CWBAssociation podcast.
My name is Max Theron and I'mhere with Bill Myers coming to

(32:35):
us from sunny Arizona.
Right before the break we weretalking about your extensive,
you know career working inmanufacturing right From welding
up to plant manager and allthings in between.
Now you got the bug in your earfor education and, as many of
us who ended up in education,someone told us to get into it.

(32:55):
Same with me.
Before I became an instructor,someone said, hey, have you ever
thought about teaching?
And I was like, no, I haven't,but I am now Right.
So for yourself, how did youonce someone put that bug in
your ear?
How did you start pursuing that?
How does, how did you become orget into educating from like

(33:16):
the private sector of welding toeducating from like the private
sector?

Speaker 3 (33:19):
of of of welding.
So you know it was kind of thesame thing.
You know the guy said hey, youknow you might be good in
education.
I think you really would dowell as a teacher.
And at first I thought well,you know, I don't want to teach
some subject that you know mathor science or something like
that.
And then I started looking and Igo hey, wait a minute there.

(33:39):
And I didn't know this.
I lived in Arizona for you know15 years and had no idea that
there were schools here that youknow taught welding.
So I just started looking atthe you know Indeed and all
those other ads and said hey,wait a minute, this school is
teaching welding.

(34:00):
their ads and said, hey, wait aminute, this school is teaching
welding.
It's, you know, not that faraway, let me go see what it's
all about.
So you know, I filled out theirapplication.
They called me up and said, hey, uh, you filled out an
application for a weldinginstructor.
And I'm like yeah, and he goesuh, well, what can you meet
tomorrow?
And I'm like sure I can meettomorrow.
Now I'm going to tell you thetruth, because I don't, I don't,
and you know, if anybody atANCORA is listening, it was

(34:27):
before you guys bought ANCORA,so I'm going to leave it with
that disclaimer.
But when I drove up to theschool now I had lived in Queen
Creek, Arizona, my whole life.
I traveled to chandler and tomexico, but I didn't know a lot
about arizona.
The place that I was driving towas 70 miles in one direction

(34:47):
away from now.
If you've ever driven inarizona, driving 70 miles
usually takes a good couplehours, okay, because of traffic,
yeah, so I, okay, let me go seewhat they got.
I drove up there it wasn't inthe nicest part of town.
I drove around the block andcame home.
Oh really, it was pretty roughyeah, pretty rough yeah because

(35:08):
I, you know again, it wasn'tbecause I didn't want to do it,
it was because I was kind oflike no, I don't know, that
looks kind of weird.
You know kind of like, no, Idon't know, that looks kind of
weird.
You know, that's the guy calledme up and he goes were we
supposed to meet sometime thisweek?
And I go, I don't know where,we did you make an appointment.
You know, I just played it off.
And he goes oh no, come back intomorrow.
And I was like you know, I satdown and thought about it again.

(35:31):
I go.
You know what?
That's not fair.
I need to give them a chance.
You know, I said I would bethere.
I, I'm going to be there.
So I went there, took a tour ofthe facility and seen the
welding shop and what they weregoing to do there.
Now, it hadn't been I thinkit'd only been open for about a
year for welding, and it's awell-established school in

(35:52):
Arizona as far as automotivegoes Arizona Automotive
Institute and it's been theresince 64.
And they were always intoautomotive.
They had a diesel program andan hvac program, but they were
just adding welding and I waslike, okay, I see some potential
here yeah, you know they hadsome nice equipment, they had a

(36:12):
good welding booth, and I go,okay, you know I'll come
interview with them.
And you know I took the tour,talked to him.
He said, hey, what kind ofwelding do you do?
And I go what kind of weldingis there?
You know he goes well, can youstick weld, wire weld and TIG
weld?
I was like, yeah, we've doneall that.
I go, I can weld on aluminumstainless.
So he gave me this littlewelding test and I was like,

(36:35):
okay, this is it.
Huh, I mean, I've taken hardertests in high school but, all
right.
And then you know, two weekslater I started working for him
as a welding instructor.

Speaker 1 (36:52):
Now you talked about taking a pay cut, moving from
Ohio to Arizona when you firstmade that transition and I don't
know if you want to talk aboutthe pay cut you take going from
being a welder to an instructor,because I don't know anybody in
the world, myself included,that went from being a full time
welder to teaching withouttaking a pay cut.
Teaching don't quite start atthe same.
Was it like that for you, orwere you OK?

Speaker 3 (37:12):
OK yeah, but remember when I was working at the last
job that I had in Arizona I wasthe vice president of
manufacturing.
You're going to take a pay cut.
You're going to go from sixfigures to mid.

Speaker 1 (37:27):
You know mid five yeah.

Speaker 3 (37:28):
Yeah, so that wasn't, but that wasn't, and I've never
made pay my main focus of doingsomething.
And.
I try to tell that to thestudents and I go look, if you
don't like doing this, which godo something else.
Go do automotive, go do diesel,go do HVAC If you like doing

(37:50):
this.
Be aware that there are goingto be times you might have to
sacrifice a little pay for thelove of your job.
So, think about that.
Yes, everybody has kids,everybody has a family to feed.
But if you can feed your familyand live comfortably with that
job, stick with that job.
The longer you stay at acompany, the better that looks

(38:13):
when you go to the next company.
Because what somebody doesn'twant to hire, and if I I've read
hundreds of resumes If I seenon there that that person worked
at a place one year, then sixmonths, then one year, then six
months, and he wasn't atraveling welder, I, that went
right in the trash can.
Yeah.
I'm not hiring somebody that'snot going to stay.

(38:35):
So if I take a job, I'm goingto stay there.
Yeah, no but yeah, you take agood pay cut.

Speaker 1 (38:44):
Well, and I talked to educational vocational trade
schools across North Americaweekly and they're all hiring,
like I mean, right now peopleare dying for instructors, good
welding instructors, fabricationinstructors.
You really talked about thefabrication not being offered in
the US.
It's still offered in Canada asa diploma vocation metal

(39:07):
fabricator but there's so fewpeople with that ticket that
it's almost impossible to findinstructors to teach that trade,
instructors to teach that, thattrade you know.
And and I hear it all the timeLike how do we get people to
leave welding and join andbecome a teacher?
And the first thing that comesup is wage, you know and that's.

(39:28):
That's always one of the veryfirst things that comes up and
they, when I became a teacher,they sold it to me on, on.
I guess the it's the way oflife.
You know, the summer's off, theshorter days, all the holidays
included, and I had summers togo work, shutdowns, to make up
the money to get back into sixfigures.
So that's what I would do isI'd teach throughout the year

(39:50):
and then I'd go do a couple ofshutdowns at the mine in the in
the summer when I'm off for myeight weeks, and I'd go make
enough money to bring home.
What I considered was the wagethat I needed for my family,
right, Um, but it is a trickything because you do fall in
love with teaching quite quickly.
It's, uh, it's not somethingthat it's either you like it or

(40:11):
you don't, and if you like it,you're kind of you, kind of like
it forever.

Speaker 3 (40:16):
Yes, and you only like it, and I found anyways
that the people that like it aregood at it, that's right.
People that don't like it arenot any good at it.

Speaker 1 (40:25):
That's right, and not everyone can teach.

Speaker 3 (40:27):
Yeah, not everyone can pass the information on.
The biggest hangup that I seein some people is they want to
talk to that student likethey're talking to an employee
and and you can't do that.
They are there to learn not tobe belittled or browbeaten or
anything that you did to thosepeople that were working for you

(40:50):
.
This is a different animalaltogether.
They learn through positivereinforcement, not some of the
stuff you used to yell at yourcrew.

Speaker 1 (41:00):
We all a bunch of dummies over here.

Speaker 3 (41:07):
But yeah, you know it , it it is very rewarding, but I
think it's rewarding for theright person.
Yeah, not everyone is cut outto do that.

Speaker 1 (41:17):
Now, how did your path go?
Was there any training that youhad to take in order to become
a teacher?

Speaker 3 (41:22):
Yeah, and the training that I took to become a
teacher I now give to thepeople that are going to be
teachers.
So we're accredited, you know,through all the different
accrediting bodies.
But we're also accreditedthrough the MCCER, it's the
National Center of ConstructedEducation and Research.

(41:43):
It's big down here.
I don't know if it's big inCanada or not.
I know they're in a lot ofother countries, but they have a
specific thing that they wantto pass on to people that are
going to be craft instructorsabout.
You know, hey, here's how youneed to talk to people, here's
how you need to do this, here'sthe teaching strategies that you

(42:06):
can use.
So it's, you know, a little bitof a coursework.
Most people get it real quick.
And those are the people thatyou can tell are going to be
good at it, are going to be goodat it.
Everybody has to have a minimumof journey or technician level,
knowledge and skill to be acraft instructor for them.
Okay, that gives the studentscredentials that they can take

(42:28):
with them.
So back when we went to school,you got a piece of paper that
says you graduated, you know,from this high school.
And then I had a little cardthere that says you also
graduated from the weldingprogram at this high school.
And then I had a little cardthere that says you also
graduated from the weldingprogram at this high school.
This gives the student morethan that.
It gives them credentials thatsay hey, you passed oxyfuel

(42:50):
cutting both the knowledge ontest you pass you know 1g or 2g
or 3g or 4g in you know 7018 orin uh flux core wire.
So it gives them a little morethan just that diploma.
so that's why, we use them, andthey're an accredited

(43:12):
apprenticeship program too.

Speaker 1 (43:13):
So if you were running an apprenticeship
program, you could log yourhours the same you would use the
same curriculum, just as anapprenticeship program, so it
gives the students awell-balanced education.
And do you try, you know, as aneducational center, to produce
students that are going tosucceed in your local area,

(43:34):
because every part of the worldaround a school has their own
industry, because every part ofthe world around a school has
their own industry Generally,you try to kind of prepare them
for the work that's going to bewithin an hour or two from there
, right?

Speaker 3 (43:44):
Absolutely, so we don't do a lot of scratch start
take.
It's not used in Arizona.
There's no pipelines runningthrough here.
There's no know oil fields inarizona.
there's dirt and sand you knowthere's, you know a lot out of a
lot of big and stick jobs yeah,but you know the tig jobs are

(44:06):
going to be shop jobs, whereyou've got a foot pedal and you
know you're just sitting thereat tig welding.
So, yes, in texas though, yeah,they have lift dark, you know,
for tig, because that's big intexas but not in arizona.
Same thing with you know for TIG, because that's big in Texas
but not in Arizona.
Same thing with you know all ofour other programs like air
conditioning.
You know we have an HVACrefrigeration program.

(44:27):
We're not.
We use swamp coolers here inArizona, sometimes in the summer
because the humidity is reallylow.
You won't find that in Floridaor some of the other states, so
we don't even bother teaching itright you know it's all about
what's going on in that area.
Now, it's not to say thosepeople will travel, but they
usually won't travel for a whileyeah, until they establish

(44:50):
their, their, their trade andget better, you know I was there
35.
I didn't travel till.
I was 36 years old you know, so, but I did it because of what I
seen was going on in the area.
Some people do it because youknow they have family somewhere
else, they have this going on orwhatever, but they don't seem

(45:11):
to move as much.
As you know, trace people movefor the job.

Speaker 1 (45:15):
Yeah, with all the money, yeah, yep.
Now, in terms of the otheraccreditations that someone
would come out of the collegewith, would they come out with
like a few AWS certs, maybe anASME cert or nothing like that?

Speaker 3 (45:30):
no, just one AWS.
So once they're within threeweeks from graduation, they have
a form they can take to.
An instructor Says hey, I wantto go take this test.
The instructor says okay, showme, you got to do it in front of
me first.
He does it.
He passes, the instructor signsoff and we send them to a third

(45:53):
party to get that certification.

Speaker 1 (45:55):
Okay cool, they wouldn't come in-house and do it
at the school.

Speaker 3 (45:57):
No, they don't do it in-house.

Speaker 1 (46:04):
No party to get that certification.
Okay, cool, they wouldn't comein house and do it at the cool,
no, they don't do it in-house,no, okay.
So then, after your time withthis college, are you still
there?
Or I'm still there because itsounds like?

Speaker 3 (46:08):
you don't like to move around so well, it's been
13 years, so I don't know.
I'm gonna try to beat the 15th.
I don't know if I'll beat the20.
You know, you never know howyour hell's gonna turn, but it
would be nice to beat the 20 too.

Speaker 1 (46:22):
I mean, I'm adding this up a 20, a 20 and a 15.
I mean aren't you retired atsome point in there?

Speaker 3 (46:28):
nope, not yet you know, I people always ask that.
You know.
They say oh, what aboutretirement?
I go, then what do you do?
What do you do after retirement?

Speaker 1 (46:42):
I got a long list.
I got no issues.

Speaker 3 (46:44):
I got everybody has that long but then I see them
and they never do the list.
They have the list but theydon't do the list.
So I'm like you know what?
I'm having fun, yeah absolutelyI enjoy who I work with.
Why?
Would you leave?
That that's right.
That's right when it becomes aburden.
When it becomes you don't wantto work with people, when you

(47:07):
don't want to do that jobanymore.
That's usually when somebodyleaves.
Yeah.
If you're having fun, if youenjoy what you're doing, keep
doing it.
Yeah, makes you live longer.

Speaker 1 (47:17):
If you enjoy what you're doing?
Keep doing it.
Yeah, Makes you live longer.
So what are some of the?

Speaker 3 (47:25):
changes you've seen since you started teaching to
now.
You know, in the 13 years, notreally a lot of changes in the
industry.
You know welding is welding.
You know they make betterwelding machines than they ever
did.
Now they make.
You know, the rods, the wires,the gases they all get better.
The process doesn't reallychange a lot.
I think the equipment is thebiggest change.
And then the next biggestchange is the people going into

(47:48):
the field.
Right, you know it's like howdo you get across to them that,
yes, you're going to leave hereand you're going to know how to
weld, but that doesn't mean theperson that you're going to work
for knows you know how towealth.
They're going to see all that,but you're going to have to go
in there and maybe make $15 anhour to start, and then you know

(48:11):
, work your way up from therewhen they see what you can do.
But you're not going to go outthere and go.
Well, I want to make $40 anhour.
Yeah, it's not going to happen,right out the gate.

Speaker 1 (48:22):
No.

Speaker 3 (48:22):
And some of that is you know, hey, we still have
some of the older people withthe older mindset that are now,
you know, running and headingthose companies, you know, and
they're not going to want tohear about you.
Well, you know, my kid has togo to the doctor and this has to
I.
They don't, they didn't do thatand it's not, it's not any

(48:47):
fault of theirs, it's that theirwife was at home.
Their wife took care of allthat, and you want to take a day
off to do this, and it's adifferent world now.
Yeah, yeah it.
You know, and I see whystudents want to do that.
They want to be more active intheir kids lives and that's
great, but at the same time,that employer wants you to see,

(49:09):
wants you to be active in theirbusiness.

Speaker 1 (49:12):
So that's a fine line that I think a lot of students
are missing out on yeah, and Ithink that's students I mean, or
just people that are new to thetrades.
They get told a lot of bs2coming into it.
There's a lot of and I've seenthis firsthand a lot of
instructors being like yeah,you're gonna get into welding,
you're gonna make a hundredgrand next year and it's like

(49:33):
whoa, whoa, whoa, like yeah,okay, we all get to the six
figures, but it it ain.
It ain't that first year, manI'll tell you that.
Like you got to take some time.
You gotta, you gotta, you gottaestablish your reputation as a
welder.
You know how.
How well do you work?
How many days do you miss ayear?
All these things matter in yourdollar value.
So if you want to be and youalluded to this in the first

(49:55):
half of the show you want to bemore involved with your family,
if you want to be home for thebaseball games and for the
suppers and the birthday gameand the birthdays, all those
things, then you're.
You're probably not going tomake as much money as someone
who sacrifices those things, andI'm not saying that either way
is wrong or right.
You choose where you want to be, but don't be jelly of someone

(50:19):
who's making more money becauseyou don't know what they gave up
to do that Right.

Speaker 3 (50:23):
Right, that's the that's the key is, if you want
to do that great, you know youshould stay home with your
family.
I missed a lot of stuff.
You know my 27 year old son.
I couldn't tell you what he didfrom the time he was born to
the time he was 10.
That was my choice to make thatsacrifice.

(50:43):
If you don't want to make thatchoice, that's fine, but don't
expect to make the kind of moneyI was making either.
Right, right.
Because that's not going tohappen.
You have to be willing to makethe sacrifice, and if you don't
want to, that's great.
I believe in both sides of it.
But then go home, go to thebaseball game and don't complain
that you're not making as muchas the guy that decided to drive

(51:06):
to work today.

Speaker 1 (51:07):
Yeah, or time and place.
That's what I try to tell a lotof people yeah, time and place.
Like I had kids, really reallyyoung.
So I was.
You know, my ex-wife was ateenager, she was 18 when she
got pregnant and for us, youknow, those really really
formidable years when you got towork hard, your twenties and
your thirties, where you'rereally establishing yourself,

(51:29):
was the hardest time for me.
But by the time I hit mythirties, my kids were already
grown and I could devote all thetime in the world to work.
And I could work, you know, 60,80 hours a week in my thirties
and not miss anything because mykids are already teenagers,
right?
Yep, so it was.
It was that was when.
So I had a very slow,progressing career for 20 some

(51:51):
years where I was welding andjust making my paychecks and
we're trying to do good.
And then I hit that mark whereI was like I got the.
Now.
Now I'm going to push into themanagement, now I'm going to go
back to school and take somecourses at night and I got this
time to to work on myself.
So it's not such a rush is whatI try to tell young people like

(52:11):
it, don't be in such a hurry toget nowhere.
You don't even know whereyou're going yet.
Let's get out there see whatthe skills are, see what.
Even know where you're going.
Yet let's get out there seewhat the skills are, see what
you like.
Maybe you're, because weldingin school is very limited.
You just see a piece of it.
Once you get out to the field,you realize that there's a
bazillion paths you could pickfrom.

Speaker 3 (52:29):
Oh yeah, not only that, but I go.
You know you're welding on 10inches at a time.
Yeah, you know.
So it's going to be a lotdifferent.
You know, when you say, oh, Ineed another rod, no, what you
need to do is burn the rest ofthat rod down to the stub till
the numbers and then restart thenext rod and go from there.

(52:51):
If you don't learn how torestart, you will never learn
how to weld yeah it's not justabout running one bead with one
rod.
So we used to take them and getthem you know bigger size pipe
so that they would have to keepdoing those restarts over and
over and over again.
And they were like, yeah, thisis a little harder than I
thought.
Yeah, because you're not justwelding on six inches of metal

(53:14):
with one rod anymore.

Speaker 1 (53:15):
This is the real life right here yeah, I remember
having uh foreman get mad at usfor lifting our welding hood to
get the next rod going.
He said you should be able toget a rod in your stinger and
onto that puddle before it stopsbeing red.
Yeah like I never pushed anyright.
Imagine well I know nobody likehe wasn't a.

(53:38):
I won't say he was a great boss, but you know what?
It was something to be saidabout his way of looking at
speed and efficiency in terms ofwhat are you doing in between,
between that little blue lightburning away?
That's when you're getting paid.
That's what your boss is payingyou for.
Is that light, that rod burning?
That's what you're gettingcharged with.
That's when that's what yourboss is paying you for.
Is that light, that rod burning?

(53:59):
That's what you're gettingcharged with by the hour.
Is for that light burning?
Whatever you do in between thatlight being on and off, is
money being lost.
And I remember thinking likethis guy is such a hard, but I
got pretty good at organizingmyself, so I had the minimum
amount of downtime at any giventime in the day.

Speaker 3 (54:20):
Right, oh yeah, absolutely myself.
So I had the minimum amount ofdowntime at any given time in
the day.
Right, oh yeah, absolutely wellthat's one of the first things
you do in manufacturing, too, isyou're going like okay, where
can I put this so that it'sclosest to?
The next job that you know isgoing to be done to it, so I
don't have all this time wastedjust moving it from place to
place, that's lean, that'sfundamentals of lean right.

Speaker 1 (54:39):
Exactly.
The value stream right.

Speaker 3 (54:42):
Yeah, and people don't realize it and they go.
You know why I go?
Because the quicker you can getthat to the next place, the
quicker I can get that done.
Yeah.
That means the quicker I canget that done, the more money
the company makes.
That will hopefully trickledown to everybody else.

Speaker 1 (54:59):
That's right.
You don't know that for sure.

Speaker 3 (55:01):
But you know, hey, that's how it works.

Speaker 1 (55:04):
Or someone could just pick it up with a forklift and
move it.
Yeah, but what if someone elseis waiting for that forklift?
Now you're affecting two jobs.
You know maybe you're affectingthree jobs.
You know your simple decisionmight affect dozens of people
down the chain without you eventhinking about it.
As simple as where you'reputting that part Right.

Speaker 3 (55:23):
Well, that's like I tell I was telling you know all
the employees you know at thelast place that I worked.
I was like you know how long ittakes to get something done.
Well, I don't know, that guygets that done in like 30
seconds.
No, it takes as long as theslowest person.
Right done in like 30 seconds.
No, it takes as long as theslowest person, right.
So whoever the slowest personis in this process, whether it's

(55:44):
moving the material or that guydoing that particular task,
that's how long it takes to getsomething done once you start
this whole assembly line so oncethis gets going, you know how
does ford crank out a car everyminute yeah because that's the
slowest job, right one minute.
So they've got it down tosomebody having to do something

(56:05):
that takes one minute yeah,first in first out wild yeah.

Speaker 1 (56:12):
So what do you, you know in terms of your teaching?
You say you teach a few thingsnow, like you started off kind
of as a welding instructor, fabinstructor, but now you also
instruct instructors.
So you know what?
What is it that occupies mostof your time in your daily work
life?

Speaker 3 (56:30):
probably sitting here trying to figure out what the
next trade course is that we'regoing to offer someone, or
visiting the campuses that youknow have already launched a new
trade program.
We've come out with a couplethis year.
We started with plumbing, um,we're doing electrical now.
Uh, welding and hvac were ouroldest and then, uh, we started

(56:53):
with electrical, then we movedinto plumbing, so I don't know
what we're going to do next.
Um, it could be solar, it couldbe.
You know something that?
is on the horizon, yeah, yeahyou know, but but not you know
not that everybody needs so much, as when we graduate those
students they can get a good jobit'll be needed then because

(57:15):
there's yeah, there's no sensein having any kind of education
that you know.
Hey, you know, I got thisbachelor degree in basket
weaving.
Well, great, there's no needfor basket weavers anymore.
They have loons and stuff thatmake that stuff yeah pennies on
the dollar, you know.
So it's about making tradecourses that people can take but

(57:37):
they also can get a rewardingcareer out of well, I think we
kind of forgot to just go there.

Speaker 1 (57:43):
So where is it that you work and teach and like,
what do they do, what's their?

Speaker 3 (57:48):
we kind of been talking about it but we haven't
actually gone over it well, whenI taught, I taught at the
arizona automotive institute upin glendale, arizona.
Uh, like I said, been there along time.
Now I do it from the comfort ofmy desk in my room, so
everything is virtual now.
Yeah, you know, covid changedthat landmark yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (58:11):
I switched from teaching.
I left teaching during COVIDbecause I was going crazy,
sitting at home waiting tofigure out if I had a job or not
.

Speaker 3 (58:20):
Right, yeah, a lot of people did.
You know.
We, you know, once theyreleased a lot of stuff, we
would bring students in ingroups to do the-on portion so
that there weren't too manypeople in the school at the same
time.
Yeah, a lot of the stuff wasvirtual.
You know, we did a lot ofvirtual teaching, um, they took

(58:43):
knowledge-based tests virtually,um, and it kind of changed that
landmark for pretty much thewhole company you.
Now the teachers and everybodyare back to all of the schools,
but a lot of the managementpeople are now back to virtually
work.

Speaker 1 (59:01):
Yeah, or a mix of something.

Speaker 3 (59:03):
Yeah, so I don't actually teach students anymore,
I just teach instructors thatare going to teach our students,
and it's more about you know,hey, how to navigate the canvas
course, how to navigate the nccer site testing system and stuff
like that.
But, um, I would say that takesup some of my.

(59:25):
That's not the majority, thoughI do order all the product for
all of the schools and start anew trade program how many
schools is there a?
Startup 22.

Speaker 1 (59:38):
Wow, and they're all in arizona no no, no, there we
have schools in.

Speaker 3 (59:44):
We have one in arizona, four in texas, uh, two
in pennsylvania and and four inNorth Carolina.
We're getting ready to do onein Georgia.
These schools don't all haveTrade programs.
We're converting some of theprograms that you know.

Speaker 1 (01:00:05):
People take.

Speaker 3 (01:00:06):
But just don't you know, there's no good jobs For
them anymore and they're hard tohire.
So with our accreditation, youhave to remember that we have to
place these students in a jobthat they took for while they
studied, yeah so, yeah, if I, ifI take welding in school, our

(01:00:28):
that school has to place me in ajob, you know, and if we fall
below the benchmark they don'tget to teach that course anymore
.

Speaker 1 (01:00:36):
That's right.

Speaker 3 (01:00:37):
So yeah, sometimes we get rid of a course just
because we can't place peopleanymore.
That makes sense.

Speaker 1 (01:00:44):
What's the market?

Speaker 3 (01:00:45):
gets saturated.

Speaker 1 (01:00:46):
Well, what is the market like in Arizona?
You know, for the people thatare listening to this across the
U?
S and Canada, you, you know ifthey said you know what.
He sure made Arizona sound nicewith the hot weather and the
sand and dirt.
I want to come down there.
Is there work?
Is it looking good?

Speaker 3 (01:01:03):
If you want to come down to Arizona, I will tell you
that there is tons of work inthe electrical and HVAC field.
Obviously because HVAC is inevery house here, or you're
going to cook to death, butwelding is shop welding.
So what I mean is you know whatI mean.
Manufacturing You're notwelding out in the field a lot.

(01:01:25):
There is some for building theshaded parking structures and
stuff like that.
There is some structuralwelding, you know, still being
done down here because you knowthey still build buildings out
of metal and beams.
But Texas is, you know, booming.
Yeah.
If you want to weld.

Speaker 1 (01:01:46):
Texas is the place to go.
Well, I know, like our companyCW, we have quite a bit of
investment in Texas.
We got lots going on aroundthere.
But I do come across a lot ofwelders from Arizona and people
that you know kind of comethrough there and I always
wondered like how much weldingwork or what kind of would be
the bigger you know types ofwork that you'd see there?

Speaker 3 (01:02:08):
The most is structural.
Then you have the shutdownslike anywhere else, you know we
have a lot of mining going onhere, but of course those mines
are in areas that are not.

Speaker 1 (01:02:17):
They're remote yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:02:19):
So you're going to either travel or you're going to
live, you know, in your littlecamper for six months, and then
you know, take off to the nextplace or go home, and, you know,
wait for three months beforeyou feel like working again.
But, those jobs are here too.
It's just the bulk of them areshop, you know, in manufacturing
semiconductors, stuff like that, or you know out in the uh

(01:02:44):
build trades in the constructiontrades.

Speaker 1 (01:02:46):
Yeah, yeah, and your school programs.
There are they, are theygrowing?
Are they like specifically thewelding ones?
Are they welding expanding?

Speaker 3 (01:02:55):
never has a problem with getting students yeah hvac
never has a problem with gettingstudents diesel and automotive.
They don't have problemsgetting students.

Speaker 1 (01:03:07):
But less students want to take those kind of
programs, you know yeah, I'vethought about going back to
teaching, kind of towards thetwilight parts of my career,
getting back in front of aclassroom I think.
I mean I worked with a fewgentlemen that did that when I
was teaching.
They had kind of likeretirement age substitute
teacher If you need me, call me,I'll come fill in for a class
and they were great.
You know older guys who hadwelded their entire careers and

(01:03:36):
I thought had welded theirentire careers and I thought you
know, that's a nice gig.

Speaker 3 (01:03:39):
That's a nice gig like yeah, you know someone
wants to go to mexico for twoweeks.
You come and teach their classfor a couple weeks perfect, that
sounds awesome.
Well, we did that for a lot ofyou know people that, even even
if they're still workingfull-time, you know we have
classes at night and andsometimes people go.
Well, I don't want to, you know, teach fulltime, but I'll do a
class If you have a class atnight and our classes are five
weeks long so they'll get apaycheck for that five weeks of

(01:04:00):
classes and then sometimesthey'll go.
You know what.
Sign me up for another one.
Sign me up for another one, orthey'll go.
You know what.
Write me out of this one and.
I'll up in five weeks and youknow, know.
So either way, there'sfull-time and part-time work in
the teaching there, especiallyin trade yeah, you're right.

Speaker 1 (01:04:18):
There is now, in terms of, you know, the growth
of welding in general.
I've constantly seen thesenumbers of we need 20,000
welders, we need 100,000 welders.
The retirees are going out thedoor.
What are we going to do?
Do you feel like we're in asbad a shape as everyone's kind
of making it out?
Are you worried about thenumber of welders or trades

(01:04:40):
people we have coming in?

Speaker 3 (01:04:42):
well, I'm not worried about the number of trades
people coming in, um, I thinkyou know.
I do believe that we do need,you know, more people into the
trade, but I don't know thatit's welding, welding is kind of
gotten glorified in the last 10to 15 years.
You know everybody now wants togo out and be a welder but

(01:05:04):
there's not that much hype about, hey, I want to go out and be
an electrician or I want to goout and be a plumber.
You know that, that newgeneration, you know you have
those kids that grew up withthose blue collar fathers that
were welders and stuff like that, that are saying, yeah, I want
to go out and be a welder.
But then you have that samegroup of you know young kids

(01:05:26):
that's seen their parent be aplumber and went no way.
Am I doing that?
you know so I think some of thetrades are gonna suffer here,
but I don't believe it's goingto be well I hope you're right
still yeah, it's still awell-paying job.
If you want to make a careerout of it and you pay attention

(01:05:48):
and you do what you're supposedto do and you learn the trade
the way you're supposed to learnthe trade, you can make a darn
good living as a welder, and youcan for the other ones too, but
the work I don't think hasgotten as glamorized.
As you know, being a welder,yeah, yeah it's.

Speaker 1 (01:06:05):
It's a tough one.
I remember in canada there waslike way too many electricians
for a time and then it seemedlike we had electricians
standing around at every corner,you know, looking for work, and
now and then it switches toanother trade, Then some other
trade everyone kind of jumpsinto and we have, you know, then
we, we have too much.

(01:06:26):
But I don't know if I'll eversee that again in my lifetime,
where we have too much of atrade.

Speaker 3 (01:06:38):
I think that maybe in general they're just not the
amount of uptick as there was.
Yeah, I don't, you're right, Idon't think we're ever going to
see that whole.
You know.
Oh, we have a whole bunch ofelectricians standing around.
You know, because you know and Idon't know about canada, but I
do know in the united states theinfrastructure is getting old.
You know bridges are gettingold, that you know piping and
plumbing and everything's youknow aging out, and if nobody's

(01:06:58):
there to replace it, then we'regoing to be in trouble that's
right, you know so I do see youknow some trouble for people
looking to hire trade people inthe future.
And you know one of the biggestthings that I've always you know
because we have PAC meetings-you know where we get the people
you know from the community tocome in talk about our trade

(01:07:21):
programs, and the one thing allthose employers constantly say
is well, you need to train themto do this, and you need to
train them to do that, and youneed to train them to do this.
And it's like we're trainingthem as welders, electricians,
plumbers and HVAC tech.
We're not training them foryour specific need.
Yeah, that's on you yourspecific need needs to come from

(01:07:42):
you.
Yeah, and here's the problemwith trades right now, you're
not investing in your employees'future growth.
You're not.
You're taking the money andyou're saying, okay, we're
making record profits but you'renot putting anything back into
training your employees ortraining the future employees
for the next generation.

(01:08:02):
You know you're not investingin your own workforce.
You're expecting to come in andgo hey, this school does.
Hey, we need you to train themto also do this, this and this.
No, that's specific to yourfield.
We don't trade specific to yourfield, we train specific to an
industry.

(01:08:23):
So you know that's the biggesthurdle I see.

Speaker 1 (01:08:27):
It is a big hurdle.

Speaker 3 (01:08:27):
yeah, the workforce going through.
I don't know about Canada.

Speaker 1 (01:08:30):
It's very similar, but at least here in the United
States, it's the employers notdoing anything.
Well, and sometimes it's adisconnect.
And I've had this meeting.
Actually, last year we held aforum about it at Fabtech, where
we talked about industry wants,but what does industry give?
So let's say, for example, wehave a large manufacturing plant

(01:08:51):
and let's pick a city, you know, uh, ohio, somewhere in
columbus.
I'm going to columbus.
Okay, we're in columbus and downthe street is a trade school
from columbus and that thatfacility is upset, that the
trade school is not teaching thekids on how to run cnc brakes,
because they want to hire thesewelders, but they also want them
to know how to run cnc brakesand shears and stuff like that,

(01:09:14):
because this company has allthis equipment.
And so I pose the question tothe company.
It's like well, you are awarethat the funding is very low and
limited for schools in NorthAmerica.
Oh, yeah, yeah, we hear aboutthe funding issues all the time.
All right, but you want them toteach you teach their students
on a half a million dollar pieceof equipment for you.

(01:09:34):
Well, ideally, we'd like that.
Well, have you ever thoughtabout you buying the equipment,
donating it to the school,getting your name put in front
of the lab and saying this isthe?
You know the Columbus Ohio Xcompanies.
You know CNC lab, and then youknow what?
I bet that school would be morethan happy to teach kids how to

(01:09:55):
run that break press if it wasdonated from industry.
You know at what point do youstart actually getting involved
with your educational outletsinstead of just complaining
about them, right?

Speaker 3 (01:10:07):
Right, yeah, and that's the problem, you know,
they just complain about it.
But they have no solution otherthan to say, well, why don't
you teach this?
Well, why don't you hand methat piece of equipment?
Because I've had that sameconversation.
There was a guy here in Phoenixthat does stairs, you know,
metal stairs for apartmentcomplexes and buildings and
stuff like that, and it was aspecific round tube that a

(01:10:31):
smaller round tube went in andhe had a specific socket weld
that he wanted made on that tube.
And I go well, yeah, we canteach that, but we don't.
You know, we don't buy thatmaterial.
That's not material that we.
Well, you should get thatmaterial.
I would hire three people.
I go I'll tell you what if Ifind three people that want to
go to work for you, I'll teachthem how to do that.

(01:10:52):
You buy the material.
that's right, and he said it andhe said it and I showed those
three people and they went towork for him.
So then, at the next meeting Igo see what happens when we work
together yeah, when youcommunicate yeah, we yeah I go.
We can't just assume what youneed, you have to tell us and
then you have to help us get ityeah and if you do that, then

(01:11:13):
we're a partner.
If you just come in here withdemands and say, well, I need
your people to learn how to dothis, that's.
That's not solving an issueyeah because I I laid out the
curriculum.
They do fillet, welds and theydo plate and groove.
Well, that's it.
That's the time somethingspecial, then then provide the
material and let us do it.

Speaker 1 (01:11:34):
We'll do it.
That's awesome.
That's very important, I think,for industry to hear.
I preach it all the time.
But get involved.
If there's a college in yourarea and you somehow still can't
find enough employees, thatmeans that you're not
communicating to the college inyour area.
Go talk to them.
What are you doing?
Go get them, or you're notwilling to help.

(01:11:54):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely All right.
Well, you know, bill, this iswe're coming on the end of the
podcast here.
It's been a wonderfulconversation.
I love this.
We've hit off a number of greattopics.
Someone that's looking to getinto education as a welder Like

(01:12:15):
you've been welding for a fewyears, or maybe a couple decades
, and you're thinking, you knowwhat, maybe teaching sounds cool
For someone that made thetransition, like yourself.
What would be some great adviceyou could give to someone
that's thinking about gettinginto teaching?

Speaker 3 (01:12:28):
So a couple things.
First, if you're going to do it, don't do it for a school that
is funded by a government entity.
So I work for a for-profitpost-secondary school.
They pay better, they don'trequire a teaching certificate,

(01:12:53):
which is hard for somebody inthe trade to get.
You know, because in the UnitedStates if you're going they
call it CTE, if you're going todo that type of education at one
of those type of schools, thenyou're going to need to get a
teaching certificate.
You're going to need to get ateaching certificate.
The only reason I was able toget one was because of my

(01:13:19):
experience as a plant managerand vice president of
engineering, and you know theamount of time I spent doing
that.
And that's.
You know you have to give themverifiable you know times.
But if you go to one of theseschools, they usually have their
own training program.
They usually were going to giveyou a test.
You know, hey, if you're goingto teach this, I need to see

(01:13:40):
that you can do this.
Yeah, and then, you know, startout slow, take it easy.
If you don't want to do itfull-time, they always have
part-time classes yeah, and seeif you like doing it.
The biggest piece of advice Ican give them is if you don't
like doing it, don't do it,cause you're just going to goof
up the next group of people thatcome through.
Don't do that to the peopletrying to get an education.

(01:14:02):
If you're not any good at it,recognize that and get the out
of it and go find something elseto do.
Yeah.
Groceries, whatever it is.
But yeah, you know, if you wantto stick with education, make
sure you love educating theyounger generation that may not
think the same way as you do.

Speaker 1 (01:14:19):
Yeah, and you can't get frustrated, you can't get
mad like yep, you gotta justwell.
Honestly, I think the studentskeep you young because they
teach all the new lingo andstuff.

Speaker 3 (01:14:28):
But you know, absolutely you know I didn't
know how to text before Istarted teaching.
Oh no, let me show you.
That's not true, because Iworked in the you know dot com
area for so long, but that's youknow yeah, if you're going to
teach, get some computer skillstoo absolutely you know
especially you know, especiallyif you're at that retirement age
where you know the only thingyou know how to do is turn on

(01:14:50):
facebook a lot of education isdone now through Canvas and
Blackboard and stuff like thatand LMS system.
So get some computer knowledgebehind you, at least enough to
navigate that.

Speaker 1 (01:15:04):
That's great.
That's great advice and it'svery true.
I don't know a college anywherein North America that doesn't
use an LMS to do almosteverything Exactly yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:15:12):
Yeah, even, yeah, even.
You know, we don't even teachour trade courses.
Some of them we do hybrid,where they come into school for
a couple of days, cause theyalways got to do the hands on at
the campus, but a lot of oursare, you know, a hundred percent
on ground and they still usethe LMS.

(01:15:34):
Their textbooks are ebooks.
There's no physical copy of abook anymore, so you have to
have some computer skills toteach.
You know, it doesn't have to bea lot, but it needs to be more
than.
Hey, I know how to turn up on,you know google let's start
awesome all right.

Speaker 1 (01:15:50):
and last question for the students out there how do
they sign up if they're in theirzone area?
How do they find out about thewelding programs offered by
Encorra?

Speaker 3 (01:16:00):
If they want to find out about any programs at
Encorra, they can look online.
We have an online presence.
They can show up at the schooland say hey, you know what I
want to hear about your programs.
There's admissions people thereall day long.
There's phone lines all daylong.
You know they can find ArizonaAutomotive Institute.

(01:16:21):
You know on the website theycan find Ancora Education on a
website That'll take them to allthe different schools.
If they're not in Arizona, youknow if they're in Texas or
Pennsylvania, and they canchoose whatever program they
want, depending on where theywant to go to school.
It'll list all the programs ateach one of those schools.

Speaker 1 (01:16:41):
Awesome, that's been fantastic, and thank you so much
, Bill.
You taught me some stuff today,and that's I love.
I love to learn.

Speaker 3 (01:16:48):
Cool, mac, this was great.
You know, it was a good time,awesome and for all.
I wasn't sure at first what toexpect, but you know it well,
you never know.
And then it's like, all right,cool, this guy's a welder.
Because there's people that say, yeah, I'm a welder, but
they're not really.
Well, oh, I totally know whatyou mean.

Speaker 1 (01:17:06):
Two or three years or something.
Yeah, no, I did my, did my time.
I did my time you did yepawesome bill well.
Thank you so much, like I said,for coming on the show and for
letting us yeah, no, I did my, Idid my time, I did my time, you
did Yep, awesome, bill.
Well, thank you so much, like Isaid, for coming on the show
and for letting us know aboutyour life and career path and
and also you know, yourworkplace at Cora and the
college there.
Thank you for having me, buddyAwesome, and for all the people

(01:17:26):
that have been following alongat the podcast here.
Thanks so much.
You know, we had a wonderfulepisode today.
Like you heard, if you'rethinking about getting into
learning to weld, now's the time, get out there.
But also and this is a themethat we've heard quite a bit If
you are an established welderand you've thought about it or
maybe haven't thought about it,but we need teachers all across
North America.

(01:17:47):
I see postings all the time,even in my province here in
Saskatchewan, where they'relooking for a welding instructor
right now.
Like, I mean, it's everywhere.
So if you've thought about it,think about it.
You know, maybe go ask yourlocal college if they want some
part time help, because we needto get ready to empower this
next whole generation and makesure to do that, we need good

(01:18:07):
teachers.
So you know, it's beenwonderful.
Keep downloading, sharing andcommenting on the podcast.
And also we have the fan mailfeature on Buzzsprout if you
want to send us a direct message.
And, of course, you can alwaysfind us online on all our social
medias.
So until the next episode, takecare.

Speaker 2 (01:18:24):
We hope you enjoy the show you've been listening to
the cwb association weldingpodcast with max.
If you enjoyed what you heardtoday, rate our podcast and

(01:18:45):
visit us at cwbassociationorg tolearn more.
Feel free to contact us if youhave any questions or
suggestions on what you'd liketo learn about in the future.
Produced by the CWB Group andpresented by Max Horn, this
podcast serves to educate andconnect the welding community.
Please subscribe and thank youfor listening.

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