Episode 213 with John Marshall and Max Ceron

The CWB Association brings you a weekly podcast that connects to welding professionals around the world and unrepresented communities as we continue to strive for a more diverse workforce. Join us as we celebrate National Volunteer Month to showcase the incredible contributions of our Chapter Executives from across Canada and globally.

From Newfoundland to the shipyards of Halifax, John Marshall's four-decade welding journey represents not just a career but a masterclass in adaptability, craftsmanship, and the pursuit of excellence. Beyond technical expertise, John shares wisdom about mentorship, inspection philosophy, and finding fulfillment in quality work. His current volunteer efforts with the CWB Association continue his commitment to advancing the trade and supporting newcomers.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
All right, I can check.
Check, I'm good.
So I'm Max Duran.
Max Duran, cwb AssociationWelding Podcast, pod pod podcast
.
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Happy welding.
Hello and welcome to anotheredition of the CWB Association
podcast.
My name is Max Saron and, asalways, I'm out there trying to

(01:08):
find the coolest stories I canfind, high and low, east, to
west, north, south, wherever Ican.
And this time I'm taking youall the way to the east, to
beautiful Halifax, nova Scotia,where my good friend John
Marshall is.
John, how are you doing?

Speaker 2 (01:23):
today I'm doing excellent, Max.
A little bit of a weather bombhere, but nobody worries about
the weather.

Speaker 1 (01:29):
No, we were just talking.
You know, here in Saskatchewanwe got our blizzards last week.
Now we're sitting in minus 30sand minus 40s.
You guys are getting the snowthis week, but I don't think
you're going to get the minus40s like we do.

Speaker 2 (01:43):
We don't get there, but we get.
Uh.
Nova scotia gets thefluctuation it gets.
Uh.
It went from minus 14 now.
It's raining here now and thenit's gonna drop below zero at
six o'clock tomorrow morning andeverything will be frozen.

Speaker 1 (01:58):
Yeah, oh yeah so.
So let's start at the beginninghere.
John, you know because I'veknown you, but I never I guess
I've never sat you down andasked for the life story.
So this is going to beinteresting for me because I've
known you professionally andwe've had a lot of fun together.
But you know for yourself, letthe people know.
You know where did you start.

(02:18):
You've been in the industry along, long time, well before me.
So where were you born?
Let's start at the start.
Long time, well before me.
So where were you born?
Let's start at the start.
Can you see this shirt, max?

Speaker 2 (02:29):
no, I can just see your head you'd have to stand up
to see this shirt fog town.
Okay, that's st john's,newfoundland okay I was uh born
there and uh I uh wasn't a verygood student in uh going up
through the.
I cared more about about womenand hockey than school books.
I can tell you that up throughhigh school.
But I got out of school and Idid some barricading.

(02:55):
I worked for my father for abit and everything.
And then I worked with this guyInteresting enough, his name
was Scab Power.

Speaker 1 (03:03):
Scab Power, scab Power, scab Power.

Speaker 2 (03:05):
Scab Power and he was about my age but he used to do
body work on courage, and I'mtalking polybon and chicken wire
you know, but I liked it.
So I went to College of Tradesand Tech and I applied this is
in the late 70s and I appliedfor auto body.
They said, well, you only needgrade eight for that.

(03:27):
You got your high school.
And I said yes.
And they said, well, that'sfilled up every year very fast.
I said, well, what's related?
And they said welding.
So I applied for welding,didn't get in.
The next year I went back againto apply for auto body
mechanics.
They said what did you applyfor?
Last year?
I said welding.

(03:48):
And uh, they said, well, you'rebetter off, you got a better
chance to get in for welding.
So I applied for welding again.
I didn't know what.
I didn't know what an arc wasor an oxy-acetylene torch, I
didn't know why.
You know scab used chicken wireand pop rivets.
So I did.

(04:09):
I went into welding and fromthe first day I fell in love
with it and absorbed it.
And again, I wasn't a goodstudent in high school but, uh,
I absorbed everything about thewelding that I could.

Speaker 1 (04:23):
So that was in 79.

Speaker 2 (04:25):
I started there.

Speaker 1 (04:26):
Well, let's, let's stop there for a second.
You know, did you have anytrades experience in your family
?
You know, did you grow upknowing about the trades you
know in in in Newfoundland?
Did you?
Was it on your radar?
You know as, as a possibility?

Speaker 2 (04:43):
Zero.
Yeah, radar you know as as apossibility zero.
Yeah, my uncle was a carpenter,uh, and he did mostly
renovations at the federationbuilding.
But other than that, my, mygrandfather, was a mechanic.
He worked for ford canada for59 years and I'm wow, that's not
a mistake 59 years.
So mechanics is in our bloodand that was about it.

(05:05):
I mean my father.
I've been changing brakes, uh,since I'm about 13.
My father'd stand up and foldhis arms and jack up the care,
take, you know, take the springoff and put so.

Speaker 1 (05:15):
But other than that.
No, no, all right, so then.
So then you're in the weldingprogram my late 70, 70s here.

Speaker 2 (05:23):
Yeah, really liked it .
And then somebody came down torecruit from the Halifax
Dockyard, which people get theHalifax Dockyard and the Irving
Shipyards mixed up, but theDockyard maintains military
vessels and Irving builds shipsand does other stuff.

(05:45):
So they came down and theyrecruited and I was lucky enough
to get an interview and thenthey flew me to Halifax Back
then it was manpower and theyflew me on manpower dime up for
the interview and I obviouslyhad a successful interview.
And.
I was.
I don't even know where I wasworking then, max.

(06:06):
But I came home.
Maybe I was still in Frasier.
But I came home and my sistersaid there's an envelope for you
.
You got the job.
And my mother said how do youknow my sister, pat?
She's an engineer.
And she said mom said how doyou know he got the job?
You didn't open the envelope.
She said if it was a rejectionletter it'd be one sheet.

(06:28):
This was about a half inchthick, so she knew I had the job
in Halifax.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (06:33):
There's documents to sign in there.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (06:36):
Map and everything.
So July 7th 1980, I walked intothe dockyard and never looked
back for over 40 or over 34years, just over 34.
And I do.
A little later we'll talk abouta lot about the all the

(06:59):
learnings that I had in the dockwith a great apprenticeship and
whatnot.
And then so that was 40 or 34plus years, retired at 55, way
too young to retire.
And now I'm 65 and talking toMax and enjoying it.

Speaker 1 (07:17):
Well, I'm glad, I'm glad, but you know, if we go
back, you know, one of thethings that people often think
about when they think of theMaritimes out East is the lack
of work or the unsteady natureof the work out East, it's going
to be either shipyards ormining.
It's kind of going to be one ofthe two.
And the mines are up and down.

(07:39):
They've closed, they've opened.
They've closed, they've openedshipyards They've changed has a
few times.
But irving and halifaxshipyards have been around, you
know, back and forth for for awhile, for a long time now saint
john and brother can wellthat's right.
That's right.
So yeah, for yourself, you know, getting into the shipyard
business at such an early agehere you know you're talking

(07:59):
1980 was it for you somethingthat you knew right away?
Like I'm going to try to stayon here forever because you must
have seen lots of layoffs comeand go and lots of turns in the
industry over 34 years, myfriend first, you're exactly
right.

Speaker 2 (08:15):
And uh, so we started july 7th, as I said, and uh, we
had, we signed, three days ofsigning papers about the
government owns your mine, andthis is real.
They say, well, you inventsomething, you don't own it, we
own it Up to five years, and allthis and we signed union papers

(08:35):
and credit union and safety.
It was just three days, really,of orientation.
So then you get into it.
And I did go home the firstchristmas, which was obviously
december of 1980, and I wentover to see my next door
neighbor, uh, one of my goodbuddies, and his father was

(08:57):
sitting in the chair and I said,yeah, I can retire when I'm 55
and doug was the father and hegot up he said you're not even
have your feet wet yet andyou're talking about retirement.
But it was real and it did bringme a good retirement at 55.
But when Doug died, doug SrdiedI reiterated that story and

(09:23):
it brought the house downbecause they knew the father and
everything right.
But anyway, yeah, so yeah, umthe apprenticeship, it started
at 70 percent of the journeyperson's wages, so every six
months we got a five percentraise and then, which was great,
and then after three years, uh,you're at journey person's

(09:45):
wages and then we had a premium.
Then if you did high pressurepipe welding, you got 42 cents
extra an hour, I think.
But there was a lineup for that, it was.

Speaker 1 (09:56):
You were yeah, you're at the bottom of that list.

Speaker 2 (09:59):
Yeah, yeah, you were the elite if you were a pipe
welder.
And then another category wassubmarine welding, which a
submarine classifies as apressure vessel.
So that was my door.
I never did get my pipe ticketsbut I did get my submarine high
pressure and that was like alittle bonus.

(10:20):
There and again, lots ofstories.
I'll talk about submarines in ain a little bit.
But uh, it's, it's.
Uh.
I started in 80, welded forthree years in the
apprenticeship.
Then I did a year.
You had to, you couldn't weldon the submarine until you

(10:42):
welded for a year out as a, ayear as a journey person.
As a journey person, yep, andthat was a full training in
inclined verticals and 110-18s,which are very fluid, as you
know.
Yep, all stick welding then.

(11:06):
And then in 87, there was acompetition from a boss, a
charge hand, and we thought theolder hands would apply for it.
But it was a miserable job.
You know, it was really amiserable job.
So I had two co-workers thatapplied and I just said, well,
I'm throwing my hat in.
I had never expected to win it.
And I just said, well, I'mthrowing my hat in, I had never

(11:26):
expected to win it.
So in 87, october of 87, Ibecame a charge hand and almost
10 years to the month, I'll say,there was a competition for a
hull surveyor, which is aninspector, and it was so, I said
seven years of actual fieldwelding, 10 years of boss, and

(11:47):
then the rest of my career wasas an inspector, as an inspector
yeah, now, when you look back,you know, like to the day you
started as a, you know green, asgreen can be as green as the
kelp on the side of the ocean.

Speaker 1 (12:00):
There you know, you're, and you you start coming
up in this industry.
Back then, like you alreadymentioned, you're welding
because shipbuildings you'relooking at inch plates, you're
looking at back gouge seams,you're looking at lots of
out-of-position welding.
Everything's done in positionand you're running 110-18s,

(12:20):
which can be tricky, you'lllearn, but it's like trying to
throw water on a wall and makeit stick For you.
You must have seen so manyadvancements in the processes of
shipbuilding because, like Imean, I tell you now, you walk
into a shipyard now and it's waydifferent in a lot of ways.

(12:41):
Right, you got sub arcs doingthe outsides, you got trolleys,
you got all these different wireprocesses.
What?
was it like seeing these changesthroughout your career.

Speaker 2 (12:52):
Again, another great observation, but we used to have
.
I can remember when square wavecame in.
Right wave came in right, the,the square, the square wave, uh.

(13:13):
But 6011 and 7018 is what weused.
But during your apprenticeshipwe learned sub arc.
We used to build up the shafts,the submarine shaft, with
submerged shark, so it wasn'tlike putting it on a trolley, we
had to put it in a giant lathe,the shaft, and then build it up
with I think it was uh, uh 625,lincoln 625 or something with
the underlay, and then we putthe incanel on the shaft right.

(13:33):
That was interesting.
Um, we, we learnedblacksmithing, uh, some rigging.
But we learned as far as thewelding processes go.
We learned Kig A lot ofaluminum in shipbuilding, and a
lot of stainless steel, mig Alot of aluminum I don't know if

(13:59):
we ever used the MIG In myapprenticeship or steel Flux
core was hardly Heard of.

Speaker 1 (14:07):
Yeah, that didn't come until the 90s really, when
it got big.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (14:13):
So TIG MIG oxy-sethylene Plasma was just
getting introduced for cutting.

Speaker 1 (14:21):
Gouging.
Gouging has always been around.

Speaker 2 (14:24):
Carbon arc gouging definitely that was a big part
of it and we went through thewhole process and we did do pipe
.
We never got certified orqualified and back then we never
had Canadian Welling Bureau.
We had our own entity with theDockyard Lab.

(14:45):
I was fortunate enough to workin that.
It's called ADRI DefenseResearch Establishment Atlantic,
I think it is, and I got towork in there with a brilliant
man, Dr Jim Matthews, and welearned how to break things and
it opens your eyes when youlearn how to break things, Max.
You sure do the, the explosionbulge test.

(15:06):
Uh, the, uh, the giant sharpies, the dynamic tear tests.
Uh, I don't know if you've everdealt with that, but it's a lot
of fun yeah, it's a big footcoming down hard.

Speaker 1 (15:17):
That's what, yeah, yeah that's for sure.

Speaker 2 (15:19):
so I was lucky enough to do that, and it gives you a
different insight.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
When I became boss my boss, thegroup foreman of the column he
approached me and said let's getrid of all the antiquated
machines.

(15:40):
And we ended up.
I ended up getting rid rid ofeverything, had a number and
everything had to be signed backin and accounted for yeah but I
, I went out and I think webought 10 holbert diesels uh, I
know there were gold or yellowin color and thought that was

(16:02):
the start of the getting rid ofthe antiquated stuff.
And uh, we used to use I thinkit was a lindy for mig welding
for the big guns.
Uh, it had the slope.
I still never understand slope,and what was the other term for
the?
there's slope and trim wasn't,it was yes, yeah, but anyway, I

(16:23):
never understood, never didunderstand that.
But I, if somebody set up themachine for me, you know, and
then it was like a sliding graph, almost, you know, to get that
well, property.
But so that went and we endedup getting a cobra and I don't
know if you ever.
It was a beautiful gun, pushpole model nice we're in the big
wire and I don't even know whatpower of that, but the gun

(16:45):
itself was called a cobra and Iwelded a lot of aluminum,
putting bottoms in lighter boatsand stuff like this, and mass
all the master aluminum forweight.
Yeah, I did a lot of aluminumwelding and back then too, we
used 50-53.
And what was it?

(17:07):
40-46, is it?
One was for cash and one wasfor drawn metal.

Speaker 1 (17:15):
Yeah, 40-41, I think isn't it.

Speaker 2 (17:18):
Yeah, something like that.
Anyway so when go back to theapprenticeship we had, we had
four wellers, all very goodpeople.
One guy Got approached by theRCMP and he said can I finish my
Apprenticeship first?

(17:40):
And they said, if you want tojoin the RCMP, you go out west.
So he ended up Steve he, he washis name he ended up leaving.
So now it's down to three of usand I needed an edge, I thought
, because I thought the othertwo guys were more capable than
I was.
So I started taking nightcourses at TUNS Technical

(18:01):
University of Nova Scotia, partof Dalhousie, and I go down.
George Halliburton was theinstructor and I just started
learning a little bit abouttechnical welding.
And again, I needed that edgebecause I thought the other two
were more proficient than I was.
And the way things happened,there was a civilian reduction

(18:25):
program, I think around late 80s, early 90s, and then there was
layoffs there and people had togo.
But, as it turned out, thefederal government, the way you
could get your money and leaveyour job had to be redundant and

(18:45):
your job had to be redundantand your job had to be redundant
and the job was never going tobe offered again.

Speaker 1 (18:52):
It was like a terminated position.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (18:54):
Right Terminated position.
So we had a welling inspectorand I don't know I'm not, I'm
not here to criticize him Ididn't know he was a welling
inspector, but he left and hegot a bucket of money and then
when, when it came up, maybesome critical work came up,

(19:17):
somebody realized we don't havea welling inspector.
Right.
And now I'm already into it wasWIC then Remember WIC, Welling
Institute of Canada modules.

Speaker 1 (19:28):
Yeah, way before the go-to-run, I got the books
behind me.

Speaker 2 (19:31):
Yeah, there you go.
I probably still got mine.
So I already had those modulesin.
I had some of the technicalcourses from tons and then my
name came up and said, well, weneed a welling inspector.
And there was other people moreexperienced but they never had.
I was so close.
Yeah.
Writing and anyway.

(19:53):
So that's another thing.
I'm one of the luckiest peoplebecause that brought me into the
inspection world.
Yeah and yeah.
So that really worked out forme.
And one guy took the civilianreduction program.
Another guy is actually.

(20:13):
I just reached out to himthrough LinkedIn, so I was the
last one in the welding worldthat survived the full term and
it got me to where I am today,right.
Yeah yeah, so anyway, that allworked out for me.

Speaker 1 (20:28):
But then you get more into the welding, inspection
and learning how to do thingsright and the metallurgy and the
processes and the procedures.

Speaker 2 (20:40):
And why it's not all BS.
It's because there is a reasonfor this, yeah, and then in the
meantime, I became theapprenticeship supervisor, I
guess for the welding, all thenew, because we always had a lot
of you know yeah four a yearand then it's a three or four

(21:02):
year program and so I got intothe teaching part of it too.
And then again we never hadcanadian welding bureau and we
made some mistakes and I'll talkabout that.
Uh, and that brought in.
So okay, we need to, we need toget some corrective action here
and anyway.
So I ended up going toStaticona and teaching the

(21:23):
military mostly, but on how toweld, and they did have a
instructor, but it wasn't a veryefficient program.
We sort of set it up.
At the same time.
We invited Canadian WeldingBureau because there were people
leaving the military and theyhad no certification.
You're an in-house certified.

(21:46):
It doesn't get you anything.

Speaker 1 (21:47):
As soon as you walk off the property.
It's no good Right.

Speaker 2 (21:50):
So that's again when Canadian Welling Bureau came in.
It changed a lot of things.
It changed a lot of attitudes,but it worked, because then you
have standards and then againpeople reject it.
But over time it worked.
We had different trades becausewe had very strict trade
boundaries, but we did get itthat other trades could tack.

(22:14):
For example, like you know,like sheet metal, there's an
awful lot of sheet metal on aship and the sheet metal workers
weren't allowed to weld or tack.
So we brought that in.
Iron workers weren't allowed toweld.
Most of them could weld, mostof them came from a welding
school and then became an ironworker Right.

(22:34):
So we integrated the sheetmetal to tack up their trunking,
say for ventilation Mm-hmm.
Tacked the trunking, lay itaside.
When the weller comes by, theweller will weld it.
And the same for the ironworkers.
We call them platers.
Mm-hmm.
And the platers would tack it upand then leave it and move on,

(22:55):
so then the wellers would comebehind.
So that was a good step andthere was a lot of resistance in
that as well.

Speaker 1 (23:03):
Yeah, well, it's interesting.
You bring up a couple ofconcepts there that I think are
interesting to know about you,and there are things that I know
about you personally.
You know I've been in theindustry since 93.
You've been since 80.
So you got 13 years on me.
Yeah, 93.
You've been since 80, so yougot 13 years on me.
And in my life I've run into alot of older guys, a lot of
mentors, a lot of people thathave been in the industry a long

(23:24):
time, and I would say that most, most of them are resistant to
learning new stuff.
They kind of get stubborn, theyget, you know, stuck in their
ruts and they're old school maxright and they're not good with
change, but you're not one ofthose people.
You've already made a number ofexamples in your story so far of

(23:44):
where you you weren't stuck.
You were looking at the newtech, you were thinking you know
, there's got to be a better way.
You're thinking there's got tobe a a different way, or?
A proper process and thatreally separates a trade person
out from the rest.
You know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (23:59):
Yeah, yeah, and again some old war stories.
When we were doing boilers, wehad a boiler makers which,
around 1980, the boiler tradewas dying out because the
steamers are gone, you know, andwe're dealing with diesels now.
So we had it was a 707,certanium, not Certanium was

(24:30):
Certanium a welding company.

Speaker 1 (24:32):
I don't remember.
I don't remember.

Speaker 2 (24:35):
Orange, orange colors , orange packaging and stuff,
and I think it was a 707.
And we were welding boilertubes with the 707.
And it was, like you know,there was definitely some nickel
in it and whatnot, and it was apretty weld and a nice blue

(24:56):
finish when you finish, whatnot.
And it was a pretty weld and anice blue finish when you finish
.
But so we do the border tubesand and I learned from, I
learned from, uh, this old guyleo, and he was a really good
welder and he said don't worryabout it, they're gonna crack
anyway.
So that's, that was theattitude.
Well, they're only going tolast with the thermal expansion
and traction and everything yeahso, like he taught me that, he

(25:19):
said here's how we weld it.
And I never had enough sensethen to ask what kind of
stainless steel they were madeout of.
But in, and I'll lead up tothis brilliant engineer, who's
no longer with dnd, but uh, whenhe came in, we were looking in,
we were looking at processes,and he said why are you willing

(25:43):
to list these tubes with 707?
And I said well, leo Pacetaught me how to do it, that's
what he told me he probablylearned it from somebody else.
Tribal knowledge.
they called it back then tribalknowledge they called it back
then and because it was ahand-me-down, it's pass-on.
So he looked it up.
Gordon McDonald looked it upand said well, I can't even

(26:06):
remember what it is now.
Let's say it was 316 per.
I don't think it was that.
He said well, if you have 316stainless, why don't you use 316
electrodes?
Yeah, and that was a gamechanger and an eye-opener for me
, you know, and that's howsimple it was.
And then we had to do testingand procedures, but guess what?
They didn't break.
They didn't break anymore.

(26:27):
Wow, no well they still.
They still failed because theboiler tools, that's uh well
they do, but still yeah, they gothrough a lot of work, yeah
yeah, but anyway, so that thatwas an eye opener for me how
that came about.
Yeah, so you want me to starton the mistake that we made now?

Speaker 1 (26:51):
you alluded you alluded to the big mistake and I
I love big mistake storiesbecause I got a big mistake
story from my life too, like alike a multimillion-dollar
mistake.
I was a part of.
And you learn your lessons?
I'd love to hear it.

Speaker 2 (27:03):
Yes, so Canada.
At the time Canada was one ofthree countries to cut
submarines into and weld themback together.
I think Germany and Australiawere the only other two
companies at the time and GordonMcDonald, again, the engineer,
was involved with that.
So people say, why would youwant to do that?

(27:27):
Because submarines are crampedone giant pipe and you got
people of all shapes and sizes,tall and big and small and
anyway, crawling over each otherto get their job done and
everybody wanted to do their job.
So somebody came up with theidea If we cut this submarine

(27:47):
into all the machine, thesub-apparat, remove the diesels,
because submarines are batteryelectric.
Remove the diesels.
We would save one full year ofman hours by rebuilding the
diesels in the shop, as opposedto me crawling over your bank or

(28:07):
vice versa right so that wassuccessful.
We had we had uh, the first timewe was involved with it, we had
16 welders 24 hours a day, or Ibelieve it was 15 days straight

(28:30):
, preheated with the electroblankets, and everything was
very critical.
One group, we had them at Max,I'm going to say nine, I'll say
nine, nine and two, or 10 andtwo, and then from 12 o'clock or

(28:54):
from six o'clock up one sideand then down the other.
You know, come up the other.
No group would get ahead of theother group by more than one
foot.
That was it.
Because of distortion, You'llpull it.
Yeah, Everything was controlledAgain.
It's a.

Speaker 1 (29:09):
It's a big tube, so it'll distort a lot yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:12):
Yeah, and it was very critical.
You know there's moremeasurements.
We had dimensional inspectionunits there we have quite the
facility and it was all 110-18s,if I can recall, one inch thick

(29:32):
, 25 millimeter thick hull andit was 20 foot diameter.
I'm going back to the oldschool now, because then the
intrapass temperature couldn'texceed 300 f, so we had to keep
it between 250 and 300 f whichis nothing that's just over
boiling point for crying outloud yeah

(29:54):
yeah, oh yeah it's uh, but youthe metal was.
So, uh, hy80 was the metal andit was like a high yield, uh,
low alloy and uh, so it was.
It was critical to keep thetoughness of the steel.
So everybody understood that wehad a lot of fun doing that.
So anyway, we did it and itwent through UT visual, ut MT

(30:19):
x-ray, every test and thecircularity was relatively good
and everybody was happy.
The next time we did it, Ithink we did it in nine days,
same format.
So you know it was, it was.
That was quite an experienceAgain, the teamwork and the
coordination for everything.
So then we were building Idon't know how many escape

(30:44):
hatches or submarine hatches,which are domed and fairly heavy
material.
So that had its own process.
So we worked well with themachine shop and the hydraulic
shops and you know, because it'sso integrated, to build that
from scratch.
Then we had to build an escapetower and I don't know the

(31:08):
reason for that now I can'tremember.
So the escape tower, again,it's a cramped tube.
It might be a meter in diameterinside with a ladder, and we
built it and installed it.
And for people that don't know,we Canadians, to my knowledge

(31:29):
to this day we cannot recoverany sailors from the bottom of
the ocean floor.
We rely on the Americans.
It's called a DSRVC deep seasomething.
They come down in a mini suband take you out, one at a time
up to that tube.
You know it's like a doublehatch, like an airlock.

(31:50):
Yeah, okay, yeah.
And then they lock on to that.
So the Americans were involvedbecause their kit had to fit our
kit and they discovered that weused the wrong material in the
escape tower.
The whole thing, the wholetower which was probably six
months, you know it was sofinger pointing started.

(32:13):
Yeah, finger pointing started,and Ottawa came down next max,
and it was a big.

Speaker 1 (32:21):
It was a big deal big to do.

Speaker 2 (32:23):
Yes, I mean, this is not a week's work.
No, this is a month yes, if notsix months or more again, I
can't remember.
So then we had to build a newtower, and that's when, well,
who drew the material right?
right one finger point and allthis.
So it changed and this is whatI wanted to get across.

(32:43):
We it changed our whole policyon how to control our metals and
, well, the process of evenordering material changed.
But the biggest factor I gotthen and I got involved with the
Ottawa group and it was likeI'm talking 20 people in a room
you know again, trying to whathappened and pointing fingers.

(33:05):
And the Americans were in theroom and Ottawa, you know, were
in the room.
But it turned out that what wedid and again, it wasn't my idea
but I learned a lot.
So you take one piece of plateand it was probably common
practice, but it wasn't commonpractice.
In the mid-80s, late 80s westamp, for example, hy80, the

(33:33):
mil-spec in that corner and thelast piece of metal used off
that place gets put away, yeahyeah, right, and and it's
probably people are probablyshaking their head now you
didn't do that.
No, we did.
Uh, the machine shop gotinvolved.
They, they started color codingthe ends of all the round stock

(33:53):
.
Right, because, as you know,you cannot tell a piece of
copper nickel from stainlesssteel to fresh hot roll, cold
roll yeah I'm coming out of thelathe, you cannot tell no and
you know a magnet helpssometimes.
But so anyway, that changedthere and they stamped.
They did stamp some of theround stock but color codes.
It happened in there.

(34:14):
So that was just an example ofwhat can happen again and we
came through there.
That was quite an interestingprocess to building the getting
a hundred percent pen wells inin like uh, very difficult to
get at places and how you well,at first never right so uh, it
went in, uh, we passed Once.

(34:37):
We got past that and theAmericans came up and approved
and everything was good.
And then we're back on Squareone.
In the process Again, we talkedabout the Interpass temperature
and you had to be on the job.
We said you want this Cleanedup.
You want this cleaned up.

(34:59):
Do you want a photocopy?
We want the grease, the coffeestains of the document that
you're sitting on when you'redown doing these counts.
So we then had to do the heatinputs and everything.
And there was one individualand the numbers weren't accurate
.
So that was brought to light.

(35:22):
That was a big inquiry as welland I made mistakes.
Computer were brand new to usand I got cop cutting and pacing
.
How did you inspect this onTuesday, when it wasn't well
looked Thursday, you know, and Iwas involved with that and they
believed me, obviously, but I Igot cock cut and paste.
You know that was.
That was a limited, uh, I'mstill limited on computers, but

(35:46):
so they bought my story.
But the other guy had uh, uh,and the numbers didn't add up
like, yeah, heat inputs were allwrong and what happened there?
He was sorry he was doing themon his desk or something that
just made it up, yeah, yeah, andthat was brought to light to me

(36:07):
I never.
You know, listen, you do yourjob, I'll do mine, but I'm doing
mine, that's my ability.
And I said well, you're gettingpaid to be on the job.
Go down on the job.
Yeah, that's it.
Yeah.
And it's not all pleasant.
Most of them are good, so it'sjust why not do it right the

(36:27):
first time?
We all make mistakes, andthere's going to be mistakes
made.

Speaker 1 (36:33):
I mean that's.
The benefit of codes andstandards, though, is that, yes,
you got the rule book right infront of you.
You don't have to reinvent thewheel here, you know.
No.
Now for yourself.
You know you went from welderto boss to inspector.
That also gives you a lot moreexperience than a lot of people

(36:54):
that sometimes just go straightto inspector right, because
you've seen it from the groundup yeah, I had uh just last
month.

Speaker 2 (37:04):
I had uh a little controversy and the guy said he
welded it with uh one processand I said I don't think so.
And uh, yes, it's right here,here's where we did it.
And I said you're telling methis is done with this process.
I guarantee it's not done withthat.

(37:24):
So then their foreman came overand he challenged me and I
challenged him back and it wasnot.
I don't think the foreman knewthey were trying to.
Wellman knew they weren'ttrying to.
Well, weller was obviouslytrying to pull something over.
But I just said, listen, I knowwhat this looks like.

(37:44):
I've done it.
I'm telling you this is notthis process.
If you want to tell me it is,I'm saying it isn't.
And after the foreman called mein his office and he thanked me
and I said, well, I'm justdoing my job.
And he said he said noteverybody would pick up on that

(38:06):
and I think he was in the darkon us.
Yeah, yeah, he said noteveryone.
And I said, well, you can'tbullshit the bullshit because
you know it's you've seen it,you've seen it, 've seen it yeah
, right, because I I again grewup with it right, and that
happened more than once in my,uh, in my career well, once I
started teaching at the college,I never seen so much cheating

(38:27):
until I became a teacher.

Speaker 1 (38:29):
Yes, yes, and you try to get these kids telling you
that they didn't weld on theback of a welded plate or
something it's like.

Speaker 2 (38:35):
Yeah, we know yeah we know, yeah, yeah, I can
remember having.
We were down the tank and wonthe ships and I had three or
four apprentices and we're doinglike, uh, call them an egg
crate, you know, to fit up allthe stiffeners and longitudinals
and I was telling them theymissed sections of it.
You know full sections.
But nobody had the leadershipin the group Somebody usually

(38:58):
takes, you know, and they wereall young.
So I had my wire brush andvacuum and cleaned everything up
because there's slag everywherein the bottom of the bilge and
it's new build.
So anyway, I explained to themthey're sitting down and I said
I know you think I'm a f***ingan a**hole, but there's a reason
for this.
And here's a prime example.

(39:20):
I said we live in Canada and wehave family and friends that
are in the military, and if wedon't have this welded right, do
you want to lose a familymember?
You know and I give them a sortof a lecture like that.
But then I clean it up and Isaid, okay, I'm not going to ask
who had this section or whenyou went to break, or was it

(39:42):
nice?
I'm not going to ask that, I'mgoing to tell you I'm getting
paid to look at every millimeterweld and I will look at every.
So now I go to a bay andthere's no welding in there and
you guys are leashing it to theinspector.
The inspector.

Speaker 1 (39:54):
And you guys are leashing it with the inspector.

Speaker 2 (39:55):
Yeah, the inspector and they're all looking at each
other.
And then we sat down and Iwasn't.
You know, I was giving sort ofa lecture in a light way.
But I said this is it.
We want to do things right, andwhy not do it right?
You know, and I said I'mmethodical in the way I inspect

(40:18):
Because I'll start.
I don't want any interruptions,I don't want people talking to
me, especially in something Verycritical, and you could Miss
the selection yourself which Ihave.
So I said you know, take ablock and do that.
Yeah, there's an easy sectionIn the block.
Maybe there's a little theverticals you don't like doing

(40:39):
Short overheads.
Get them out of the way first,then clean up your slag and as
you're cleaning up what youshould do anyway with your
chipping hammer and wire brush,then look at it and then, well,
you got that block done yeah,and they sort of took it.
all of them took it to heart anda couple of them came up to me
after and thanked you know theydid Right.
So it's what you look at and Itell every site I go on.

(41:02):
I am dead against airstrikes.
And I was working at anotherplace and it was ridiculous, the
airstrikes.
I couldn't and we would neverlet our boss know that you had
an airstrike.

Speaker 1 (41:13):
You'd make the repair so fast.
Yes, you'd make the repair sofast.

Speaker 2 (41:16):
Yes, you know what I mean.
Take the polypan or whateverand grind that out or feather it
out.
It was ridiculous.
So, we had a conversation aboutthat as well.
And again, try to keep.
Try to be positive.
I don't go up and say your wellfailed Max.
I say look, this well doesn'tmeet requirements because of

(41:37):
yeah, what are we going to do tofix it?
Right.
And that brings me to anotherand again supervisors, help
leader, supervisors and teachersor people that well a lot of
people and we don't expecteverybody to know the codebook
off by hand, but there's, I findthat a lot of people and we

(41:58):
don't expect everybody to knowthe code book off by hand, but
there's, I find that a lot ofthe welders for sure, and some
of their supervisors, they don'tunderstand the full allowances
or get away with is the wrongterm but what, what's acceptable
and what's not.
And a lot of times, a lot oftimes, you go look at it.

(42:19):
Well, you know, you're alloweda certain percentage over a
hundred meter weld.
You're allowed a percentage ofa, you know, a little undersized
weld.
you know, and so I bring that totheir attention.
Even though it's acceptable byour standards, I'll still bring
the welder over, say see, thisis not eight millimeters here
and you go, it might have beenan arm stretch max, or it could

(42:43):
be underneath a rat hole orsomething like this.
Yeah, and I'll just say, listen, it's undersized here and I'm
I'm gonna accept, and it's notjohn marshall accepting it, it's
the code book.
Yeah, people had more of anawareness of the code book, I
think.

Speaker 1 (43:02):
I think There'll be a lot less fighting At Arap too.
Yeah, yes, yeah, all right.
Well, let's take a break rightnow for our advertisers, and
when we get back, I want tocontinue with the story.
So I'm loving this.
I'm loving the story.
Continue with the story.
So I'm loving this.
I'm loving the story, so okay.
So for our listeners, don't goanywhere.
We'll be right back here withJohn Marshall on the CWB
Association podcast.
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And we are back here on the cwbassociation podcast.
I'm max duron and I'm here withjohn marshall from the from

(44:59):
novice, from Halifax, novaScotia, telling us his wonderful
stories of his storied career.
All right, here we are, johnFloor.

Speaker 2 (45:06):
So it brings me back again.
My friends call me anal and Iam, and especially I'm a fear
inspector and I go by the book.
But we there's other factors.
You had to, uh, you know, bringinto it again degree of
difficulty.
You've got to be, uh, it'sdefinitely a factor.

(45:29):
Uh, you know where you seepeople wedging, putting a wedge
in between two pipes so they canget the last.
You know a hundred millimetersaround that pipe to get it in,
and, uh, there's a lot oftechniques out there.
But, um, when it comes tohousekeeping, for example, like

(45:51):
clean up your wells, when, ifyou clean up your wells and I do
every one, and if I do, like arailing for a neighbor or
something, I will take my beerhand and go over every inch of
that railing, because we don'twant people, we don't want to
cut somebody or yeah, you know,yes, so uh, and people don't do
that anymore.

(46:12):
it's like get in and out as fastas you can, and and I was on a
job recently and I had to go tothe dollar store and get a
little whisk or a broom so Icould look at the wells, like
they didn't have it cleaned upfor me, which then your eye gets
sharper, max.

Speaker 1 (46:27):
Oh yeah, then now you're kind of pissed off, yes.

Speaker 2 (46:30):
Yeah, and I had to tell so many students they give
you, let's say, a hot piece ofplate uh, maybe too hot that you
shouldn't be looking at at thattime.
You know you're looking at itor a sharp edge covered in
spatter and yeah, and I just saynow, I've been around long

(46:51):
enough and my hands are fairlytough, but do you think you
would pass this test if I had tocut my hand on this?
And then I'll show them a razoredge on it and then they're
looking at me right, but it'sfact.
You don't want to piss out theinspector.
You don't have to kiss up, butjust do it right and break your
edges.

Speaker 1 (47:14):
I had a boss that used to keep cotton gloves in
his toolbox and he would run acotton glove across your weld.
I had a boss that used to keepcotton gloves in his toolbox and
he would run a cotton gloveacross your weld and if it
caught, clean it up.
And I remember being like manthis guy is a hard but he would
say this is a $2.5 million pieceof machinery.
If you went and bought aFerrari and the door didn't
close right or the paint waspeeling off, would you buy it?

Speaker 2 (47:35):
No, if you're buying expensive equipment, you expect
perfection yeah, and and then uhagain, not too long ago I was
on this job and the flat weldswere terrible.
They were, uh, they were fluxcore.
Yeah, were terrible, and theydid a lot of time grinding and I

(47:59):
said this is not acceptable.
Yeah, but we got the leg length.
I said you don't have profileand then you'd see a beautiful
vertical and I said what's goingon here?
I had to approach QA guys andhe couldn't answer me.
But it's pretty hard to mess upa flat fillet weld.

Speaker 1 (48:20):
And then you nailed the vertical.
The verticals were beautiful.

Speaker 2 (48:24):
Equal leg length.
Yeah, so when I look at a joband I tell this to the young
inspectors as well uh, comingout of school, we have a school
here with Tony Rose.
Yeah, yeah, just retired, tony,just retired.

Speaker 1 (48:46):
The prop to Tony.
I love Tony.

Speaker 2 (48:49):
Yeah, so anyway, uh, I had a couple of those young
inspectors under my wing when Iwas working and they shadow me
for a couple weeks three weeksand I had a lot of fun with that
and hopefully I taught things.
They get out of school.
They couldn't tell you a pieceof uh schedule 40, from schedule
80 pipe or a piece of you knowreally, because, yeah, they

(49:12):
weren't welders well, and ifthey're not, welders.

Speaker 1 (49:14):
The inspector course is only a couple weeks.
How much are you gonna learn ina couple weeks?

Speaker 2 (49:19):
right yeah yeah, and I I asked every one of them uh,
where's your magnet?
First thing you go to is yourmagnet.
Um, uh, so I just say, when I'mdoing an inspection, here's my
train of thought, and I do a lotof bridges.
Now, if this well fails, issomebody going to die?

(49:42):
Yeah.
That's the first thing thatenters my mind.
Some people say you should lookat every well as critical, but
we don't.
It's human nature.
The second one is what's thecost of repair if the well fails
?
If you get inside acommunications room on a ship

(50:03):
and there's the-.

Speaker 1 (50:05):
Electronics and panels, and all this.

Speaker 2 (50:08):
Electronics and the removals are a quarter million
dollars just to remove it, toget at it.
That's the third factor, orsecond factor.
It you know to get at it,that's the third factor or
second factor.
And then the third factor is isuh coding or longevity, or you
know, like uh, how to uh notaccess it, but how to preserve

(50:31):
it?

Speaker 1 (50:32):
yeah, how well difficult right.

Speaker 2 (50:34):
Let's do it right the first time.
So my, my vision gets better.
The more critical the wells areand you really got to pay
attention and you know,especially with a little bit of
undercut, on a, you know, on apressure vessel, for example, or
so, uh, and you try to teach,you try to teach the students
and the welders look if, if youdid this, if you did this, you

(51:00):
know, file that off or justtouch that with a grinder and
break the sharp edge, we're allgood you know, and keep things
positive.

Speaker 1 (51:08):
Now, what about in terms of the experiences you've
had Like, do you think it'seasier or harder now to be a
welder?
You know, say, from 20 yearsago?

Speaker 2 (51:20):
Uh the I.
The biggest failures I see isuh leg length and.
I deal with some pretty goodcompanies and they are good
companies.
But you go and you put yourfillet weld gauge and the guy
one guy said to me he said eightmillimeter, well, you don't

(51:42):
know what an eight millimeterwell is.
And max, I said I do know whatan eight meter, uh, fillet well
is.
But you know what, if thisfails and I end up in a court of
law and the judge says, did youmeasure that?
Well, I can say I mostcertainly did.
Well, the judge will ask me howdo you know that?

(52:03):
Because I measure every well,don't get offended.

Speaker 1 (52:09):
It's not personal, no , no.

Speaker 2 (52:12):
But I find a lot of the companies now it calls for
an eight millimeter weld andyou'll see a six Leg length is
probably the biggest thing thatI mark up on a drawing now or on
the site.
Increase the fillet, weld andagain they're putting it out

(52:35):
fairly fast.
Time is money and we do getcomplacent.
Oh, that's 8mm, Everything mustbe 8mm.
Then you hit a 10mm.

Speaker 1 (52:45):
And vice versa.
Right, it goes up and down.
But as you get skilled as awelder especially a certified
welder like I mean, you carryyour fillet gauges in your
pocket you start to reallyfigure out what's right and
what's not right, and and how tolay it in.
That's right.
That's right.
And if you get yelled at by acouple inspectors in your career
, you also learn how that works.

(53:07):
Right like you don't.

Speaker 2 (53:08):
Yes, yeah yeah, um, and another big positive that
came with my career.
Again, this is when I was inthe dockyard with D&D, and
there's more than one aspect.
We did all the liftingappliances on the ship, so you
learn hydraulics and wire rope.
I did wire rope, horses.

(53:28):
But paint and paint and wellingtie in so close together and
I'm trying to teach everybody onthat project why we do this.
Like you can't leave thespatter, you can't, you know,
and round the edges.
And they are in the industrynow on a lot of the bridge work.
They have the nibblers and theyhave the grinders and they

(53:51):
radius the corners on the edgesof the paint.
That's a big help.
It is, yeah.

Speaker 1 (53:55):
Yeah, yeah.
Now what about your life as avolunteer?
You know, because I I met youthrough the canadian welding
association, the cwa is.
When I first met.
You is um, and you know my dadwas a part of of this community.
So I remember wick, I rememberall going way back.
But for yourself, when did youget into that aspect of it of of

(54:20):
you know, contributing to toyour community, not from a
monetary side, but from aneducational side?

Speaker 2 (54:30):
uh, I never.
I never did mine.
Sharing knowledge and uh, so Iguess the apprenticeship, uh in
the dockyard was where I staredat it and you take uh, some were
better than others, uh, but youtake people under your wing and
say, okay, here's we, here'swhat we do, why we do it.

(54:50):
And then if they would ask me aquestion, max, and I'm like
that today I will find out theanswer.
You know, and I remember thisyoung fellow, simon.
Simon was from Newfoundland,out west, and this is funny.
Anyway, he came in the dark air, green as green could be, and

(55:12):
introduced I said where are youfrom, simon?
He said Shuko boy.
I said Shuko, by.
I said Shuko.
I said is that?
Is that up by the sea?
Yes, by three mile.
Who would he go real fast.
But Simon was great, he did theapprenticeship and he absorbed

(55:36):
every word that I said.
But he, he asked me a questionone day and I couldn't
understand it and I've been inthe welding industry now for
five or six years and we weredown in an engine room and he
was slinging his electrodeholder.
I don't know, we used a lot of6011 back then and he was

(55:57):
swinging around and it was brassfittings and gauges, like you
know, a tight machinery space.
And he did strike an arc and Idon't know now if it was on the
brass or whatever and I saidSimon, I said what are you doing
?
Yeah, so anyway, we did fixwhatever it was, or told
somebody about what we did.

(56:18):
And I said, simon, if you're ina tight confine, you take the
electrode out of the electrodeholder till you get in and you
get down on your elbows and pushit in so you can.
So he hit the brass yes, it wasbrass and he said something.

(56:38):
I don't know the exact question, but he said is that a metal?
And I said, certainly brass isa metal.
And he said well, what's thedefinition of a metal?
And I did not know it.
And I'm not going to rhyme itoff to you now, but it is about
it's about 20 word definitionyou know, and it was quite a

(57:01):
definition.
So then I learned that andthat's the way I am.
If he asked me the question, Ilearned something and I told him
what a metal was, you know, andit is quite a definition, but
he didn't know brass and steelwere metals.
I guess we knew steel was ametal, but he didn't know brass
was a metal.
Yeah, yeah.

(57:22):
So I always enjoyed that part.
And when you take a youngprotege or whatever Mentee- and
they succeed and they pass thefirst welling test, or they
graduate and next thing they'rean inspector.
It makes you feel good too.

Speaker 1 (57:38):
It does, it does.
Yeah, yeah.
Now, what about your volunteerwork with the chapters directly?
When did you start doing that?

Speaker 2 (57:50):
That was back in the Jim Reed days.
I don't know how long.
We went to meetings, and therewas a core group of us too.
That sort of got together.
Jim was stepping down and wewere redundant.
So, we had meetings.
These seminars that the Halifaxand Nova Scotia chapters put on

(58:12):
were very good and verysuccessful, and then we sort of
dropped the ball with jimleaving or whatever.
And then, uh, we stepped up andtrying to rejuvenate it again.
Uh, so that's where it camefrom and I got time.
I could always manage my timewell, and, and now I'm retired,

(58:32):
and now tony is retired.
We don't know where this isgoing to go.
And David's still got some workto do and Charlie and Alan are
still working, so I can put myhand on the pulse most times.

Speaker 1 (58:49):
I don't know how retired you are, John.
You don't sound that retired tome.

Speaker 2 (58:52):
Yeah, that's my wife.

Speaker 1 (58:57):
Well, last year you guys ran that wonderful program
that blew my mind.
You guys did such a great jobwith that.

Speaker 2 (59:04):
We have a meeting.
I got an email yesterday withNova Scotia Community College.
We're going to do it again,maybe not with the introduction
of aluminum, but something else,and you'll be involved this
time with the advertising aspectof it.
But that was very successfuland we are also bringing in a

(59:28):
hard servicing seminar.

Speaker 1 (59:30):
Oh fun.

Speaker 2 (59:31):
We already contacted a company.
They're going to bring in therep Studi or whoever Don't know
who it's going to be yet, butthey're going to bring in the
rep Studi or whoever Don't knowwho it's going to be yet, but
they're going to bring in thehard surfacing.
We're going to hopefully hostit at Akeley Campus in Dartmouth
and we don't know yet.
We don't know yet if it's goingto be hands-on welding because

(59:55):
of, well, space and numbers.
We don't know the numbers yet,max, but yes, we have a couple
of wires in the fire again now.
That's fine I really want to seethat.
I really want to see the hardsurfacing.
I talked to so many people,including one of the instructors
, and they've never used it.
They don't understand it.
It's their.
You know the hardness.

(01:00:17):
I don't even know if theyunderstand that the hardness of
it well, and how different theywill.

Speaker 1 (01:00:22):
Rockwell values, right, like hard surfacing rods,
weld so different.

Speaker 2 (01:00:28):
Yes, right, they don't even look the same, they
don't even sound the same no,and then do you need an underlay
, do you need need thecrisscross pattern, or you know
if you butter it up.
Yeah.
So that's going to be aninteresting one and we'll
probably put that on at Akerleyand put it out to the world
through you and say we got tolook at numbers, of course, but

(01:00:50):
let's say there's 25 or 30.
We'll give it to the studentsAt Akerley.
That'll be a bonus on us, Ithink, and then anybody in the
fringes that are interested theycan get knowledge from it as
well, Awesome man.

Speaker 1 (01:01:07):
How is the industry doing in your area?
Like, how are you feeling aboutAtlantic provinces?
Now For the listeners that arelistening, you know I see
Irving's hiring all over theplace, you know is there work.
You know I'm I'm in westerncanada.
We always had the east coasterscome to us, right, it was
always like these coasters cometo us and shut down season.
Yeah, they were always goodwelders, hard workers, but then

(01:01:28):
they'd go home yeah right now isthat still, that migration
still happen the migration isstill happening.

Speaker 2 (01:01:34):
we have a lot of bridge work and I mean I mean
Irving's still got the shipyards.
Rko are putting up buildings.
There's a lot of cranes arounda lot of building, but I mean
that's more clips and baseplates and whatnot.
You know there's iron workerwork yeah.
Yeah, and but for the most partit is a ship building here in

(01:01:58):
Halifax.
And again, Chiribini and thebridge work I know of.
We just finished one bridge andthere's another one going down
in Muscadabit.
I took you down Muscadabit wayone time yeah, that was a good
time yeah, so there's a bridgegoing and that's only an I-beam

(01:02:20):
girder bridge, that's not big,but some of the bridges we were
doing are big tub girders, Idon't know.
Oh, the Seal Island Bridge, youwant to look that up?
That's in Cape Breton and thatis a massive job and the last I
heard had two bids Fullreconstruction which would take

(01:02:40):
probably 10 to 20 years.
Wow, or I call it the band-aid,which will take an ongoing For
10 years.
But it's a massive job.
It's a nice looking bridge, ifyou want to look it up, the Seal
Island Bridge and every truckthat comes from Newfoundland

(01:03:00):
going to or from the process,that bridge and it's quite a
project and it's got quite ahistory.

Speaker 1 (01:03:08):
Cool, cool.

Speaker 2 (01:03:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:03:11):
Now, what about the students' programs you know like
?
Are you seeing lots of kids getinto the trades in Atlantic
provinces?
Are you are the like?
I mean I could probably askTony himself, but are the
programs still full?
Are they pumping out thewelders Because Lord knows we
need them?

Speaker 2 (01:03:28):
As far as I know, all classes are filled with a
waiting list to get in.
Good, as you know, the successrate or the, the, uh, the
percentages aren't great forpeople coming in and going out
with that.
You know we're down around what?

Speaker 1 (01:03:45):
30 or 40 percent, yeah it's about 30 is the
national average, yeah yeah, um,I promote welding, uh, as much
as I can.

Speaker 2 (01:03:57):
You know I go and talk at high schools and
whatever, and I, you know, Iquite frank, just the way I'm
talking to you now, max, listen,I'm not here to tell you not to
go to Universal.
I'm here to say welding is agood trade and most trades are
good trades.
But you mightn't like sawdustin your nose or down your inside

(01:04:20):
your shirt, you mightn't likewelling sparks, but I'm here to
tell you your parents don't wantto spend $20,000 to waste a
year of your life in university.
If you're not into it, yeah,yeah.
If you're not interested, yeah,if you're not interested.
And then I tell a couple of warstories about my career.
And you know I tell them Istarted in 1979.

(01:04:45):
Their parents weren't born thenand you know that opens you up.
I do say, even in the hardtimes which we're going to hit
pretty soon, the Irvings aregoing to hold the role, but the

(01:05:05):
farmers and the fishermen stillneed things repaired and even in
the hardest times you will beable to put supper on the table.

Speaker 1 (01:05:14):
That's right At the end of the day, the practical
skills never stop being neededit doesn't have to do with the
price of the market.
It doesn't have to do with thebarrel of oil.
Sure maybe today you made $50 anhour and tomorrow you're only
making $20 an hour.
I get that that might suck,yeah, but your job is there, the

(01:05:34):
skill is there.
Yes, yeah, for sure, and Ireally believe in that.
Well, I've been through threeeconomic downturns as a welder,
you know, in your career you'veprobably been through four or
five now and at the end of theday, we still have our trades
and our careers and we put, likeyou said, we still put supper
on the table.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:05:51):
Yeah for sure.
And again, there's so much roomfor advancement now.
So go back to your questionabout is it easier?
Is it easier to?
Uh?
Well, now, as opposed to 1980,I love stick welding and I don't
know how you weld.

(01:06:11):
I don't think I ever saw youwell and you probably never me.
I'm Keep the puddle in motion,type guy, okay.
And then I see Some of theyounger people coming in.
They just drag that in and Itried it.
It's not for me and Me I'vealways got the puddle in motion.

Speaker 1 (01:06:31):
How about you?
I can do both, but I like tokeep it nice and steady.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:06:37):
If I'm going a vertical, I got the little smile
going on each side.
Yeah, two hole, one, two hole.

Speaker 1 (01:06:44):
Then you just drag it straight up.
I can depends on the rod, ofcourse, but uh, yeah like I mean
a 7018.
I don't mind running a stringerstraight up the wall.

Speaker 2 (01:06:51):
It looks nice oh, oh yeah, I thought you were talking
about wire then no for wire,for for gmaw.

Speaker 1 (01:06:58):
Yeah, I'd probably do a little bit of a weave there.
There'd be a little motion,yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:07:02):
Yeah, yeah, but I see some people dragging it right
up and I don't really like theprofile.
It's there.

Speaker 1 (01:07:06):
It's acceptable, you get a lot of crown.
You get a lot of crown.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:07:11):
So you know you got metal core, flux core, solid
wire.
I'm not a fan of solid wire, Idon't know enough about it, I
haven't used it enough, but Ifind that the fusion isn't there
, you know for me.

Speaker 1 (01:07:30):
Yeah and do you well much solid wire.
I have done tons in my career.
Yeah, both flux core, metalcore and solid wire.
I never had problems withpenetration.
But there's flux core, metalcore and solid wire.
I never had problems withpenetration.
But you, there's more room forerror with solid wire.
If you don't dial it in, youwon't get that root pellet
penetration yeah, yeah, thereyou go.

Speaker 2 (01:07:47):
That's, and that's that's my observation as well,
right?
So I mean, there's so manydifferent factors.

Speaker 1 (01:07:53):
Aluminum has come such a long way well, and I I'm
a terrible aluminum welder.
That's my, that's my weakness.
I'm not good at aluminum, yeahyeah, uh, again it's.

Speaker 2 (01:08:03):
Uh.
I never walked a cup in my lifebecause that wasn't invented
when I was doing it, but uh, itseems to be a success thing.
Um, but uh, aluminum, like yousaid, everything is so refined
now with you know the pulse arcand the technology you know
technology and the wires and the.

(01:08:25):
You know the alloys in there.
It's a, so I don't.
Aluminum is basically easy toweld if you follow.
Yeah, now it is yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:08:34):
I remember the first time I tried running aluminum on
just straight negative polarityand I just made the biggest
mess you'd ever make.
And I was thinking well, Ican't do this yeah, oh yeah,
another.

Speaker 2 (01:08:48):
Another funny story.
Uh, I was down in myapprenticeship and I was in the
we call it the tig corner, sothat's where you learned how to
weld the aluminum.
And old Tommy Brown he wasprobably long gone now but he
Was an old welder, very, veryfinesse welder.
He was doing A thin, like I'mgoing To say, 20 gauge Little

(01:09:15):
Connie tank, a little Connietank or something.
He was doing and he went forbreak.
During break, one of my buddiescame up and said can you well,
this, it was a home job, right?
So I go up and I cranked it upfrom you know, let's say from
you know, what happened, right?

(01:09:36):
oh, I cranked it up and let'ssay I'm well in quarter inch
aluminum and I changed over the.
I changed over the tungsten youknow probably a 1.8 tungsten or
uh and cranked up the voltageand average and did what I had
to do and then I changed it back, put his his 116 tungsten in

(01:09:57):
there and changed it back to thesmall torch.
Anyway, I forgot to switch itback he came back and he almost
had this job done, max, and heblew aside all that coal vessel.
Oh, he wasn't happy with me,right yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:10:14):
Yeah, you don't make friends playing with other
people's welding machines.

Speaker 2 (01:10:18):
No, that's for sure oh he, I don't think he talked
to me for a couple days.
Yeah, now that happens too.

Speaker 1 (01:10:25):
Yeah, it does happen.
We all make mistakes and andthat's part of the, that's part
of the industry too, like I meansometimes you see people around
you make mistakes and you gotto support them and teach them
and hope they get better.
I mean, some people don't learnand then you figure out who
they are too right.

Speaker 2 (01:10:41):
Yeah, yeah, no, keep it positive, Max.
And again, even if you don'tmake it or whatever, if it's a
visual or it fails on a bendtest or something like that, or
lack of fusion, we all know,about that.
Just well, change something onething at a time, don't change
five things and sort of workthem through it.

(01:11:01):
That's right that's right.

Speaker 1 (01:11:03):
Yeah, now, what's in the future for you, john?
You know, um, when you look atthe next five years of your life
, 10 years of your life, what isit that's on the bucket list
for you to do?
What's going on for you forprojects?

Speaker 2 (01:11:23):
I'm starting to wind down a little bit, starting to
wind down a little bit I don'tbelieve you.
You just told me you still playhockey three times a week for
crying out loud.
I'm playing tomorrow, anyway,max, my welding certification.
I'm playing tomorrow, anyway,max, my welding Certification.
My welding inspectioncertification Runs out when I'm

(01:11:46):
69, and I said I'd like to keepgoing Until I'm then, and then
I'll look at it again.
Right and and stay with my Paintcertification.
They're sort of on a parallel,you know, and we'll see where it
goes, but again I enjoy it.
I and actually I talked to tonyand I might try to put a bit

(01:12:07):
more time in the canadianwelling association, like from
this end, and try to really getthings moving along well I'm
here to support you, buddy, I'mhere to support you.

Speaker 1 (01:12:16):
Yeah, any ideas you have, you know I love them oh
yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:12:20):
Well, like I say, let's get these two underway for
, with uh, nova scotia communitycollege and then we'll trying
to get our numbers up is a bigthing with me, and getting a
true, a true uh value on ournumbers and how to get people in
, you know, to get them activeagain.

Speaker 1 (01:12:41):
Well, you got students and you got industry.
We got to find that secretsauce.
We got to find that secretsauce to get it all put together
, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:12:53):
So yeah, I had another thing I was going to
tell you.

Speaker 1 (01:12:58):
I can't remember now, but you keep talking and I'll
it'll come back up again well, Iknow, before we started you
told me I gotta make sure I saythe one thing, did we get the
one thing?
Did we, did we cover the onething?

Speaker 2 (01:13:09):
yeah, that, that that was a escape power.

Speaker 1 (01:13:11):
Okay, good yeah because you know those stories
sometimes are the most valuableones, because it's easy to focus
on the positive, it's easy tobe like everything I built is
great, everything I built iswonderful.
I know.
But no, there's sometimes,sometimes things can go sideways
really bad.
Yeah.
Yeah, I did the.

Speaker 2 (01:13:32):
I did the airport overpass here in Halifax.
Uh, probably, I don't know 10years ago less, and an
engineering company went up andthere's only six girders I think
I beam girders and uh, they dida inspection on it and they

(01:13:54):
said there was three repairs onthe airport side, one repair on
the racetrack side going overthe main highway.
So the contract was left andthen the staging is put in place
.
The roadways are closed off,you know, slowed down, and so I
get up and again, I love rust.

(01:14:16):
You know I made my living fromrust and I know where to look
and I had taken erosion coursesand how it works and what
happens and all that.
So I got up on that staging andI started tapping things with my
hammer.
There's a hole, there's a holeand I don't know about.

(01:14:38):
I just I'm sent on the job.
So when I finished I said wegot troubles and I called up the
guy who hired me and I said Itook pictures and they had four
repairs.
When I was finished there was19 repairs, at least six meters

(01:15:01):
or two meters long Each.
You could put your hand throughit, and I had engineers on the
staging and if you know howturbulence works underneath the
bridge with the sand and thesalt and the water and the rain,
it, it at the lower flange ofthe i-beam.
It's just eaten out on bothsides.

Speaker 1 (01:15:21):
It's gone and I had engine.

Speaker 2 (01:15:22):
I had engineers looking at me there's no hole
there, in other words, we don'tneed to fix it.
So I said, everybody here gothearing protection.
I took out my hammer and I hitthat and there was a hole there.
You know it was.
Let's say it was uh, 15millimeters.
Well, what I could see, it wasless than a millimeter left if

(01:15:44):
it wasn't whole.
Then it just so happened, thesandblast guys were getting
geared up.
I said we all stepped up, giveit a shot yeah, give that a shot
, and then you can put your handthrough it.
And we had engineers say, well,it's not hold, and they ended
up with 19 repairs at the end ofthat.

Speaker 1 (01:16:03):
That's full cutouts.

Speaker 2 (01:16:04):
Yeah, yeah, it's, it's, that's a reality.
And I was.
There was a meeting call.
I wasn't invited to it, but thenext morning there was a
meeting called with uh dot, uh,nova scotia department of
transport, uh, the guy who hiredme, who's also an engineer, the

(01:16:26):
engineering firm, and I don'tknow what came, but but it was
quite a to-do, right.
Well, for sure yeah, well again.
Uh, you got to know where tolook and how to look.
And they're talking about doingdrones now doing bridges and I
I gotta ask my opinion on that.
I sort of like the idea, but Isaid you can't see through that
road grime, that sand layingthere.

(01:16:48):
You have to, it has to be cleanyeah, there has to be contact.
Yeah, there's gonna be somecontact there yeah, so I mean
drones might be okay for visual,for maybe some basic stuff, but
it won't tell you the wholestory.
Yeah, no, it's.
Uh.
It's hard to get at placeswhere they don't.
The painters don't like to gowith their hair to get it.

(01:17:09):
Everybody can paint the panelon a tub girder it's wide open
in the corners and up underneatha piece of structural steel,
and that's where it corrodes andthat's where it's not painted
proper.
So I'm anal.
Like that as well.

Speaker 1 (01:17:22):
You go to the hard spots awesome well, john, thanks
so much for being a part ofthis show today.
You're a wonderful volunteerfor the association.
We love the work you're doingout there and I just love
running into you, because wealways have a great time oh, yes
, you know, uh and red deer yeah, red deer.
Yeah, june 11th, you're gonnabe there.
I'm hoping to good.
Good, we'll be there.

(01:17:43):
We'll be the nac's on the 10th,so I'll be seeing you there for
that meeting.

Speaker 2 (01:17:47):
Well, yeah, that's a good reminder.

Speaker 1 (01:17:49):
I gotta get the boys on that now see what's gonna
happen awesome, john, anythingyou'd like to say to anybody
before I let you go any any lastminute words of wisdom no, it's
all good, you know, let's keepit going.
Yeah, let's keep it going.
I like that.

Speaker 2 (01:18:03):
Thank you for your time and I did watch some of
your podcasts.
They're quite interesting andhopefully I got to send a little
bit of a message to somebody,Max, and then keep it light.
Like you say, You're allowed tohave fun at work.

Speaker 1 (01:18:18):
You are, you are and well, you make my work fun, so I
appreciate it All right, thankyou, and for all the people I've
got to watch, hockey.

Speaker 2 (01:18:24):
Now Americans are playing.
Yeah, I know I've got to gowatch hockey Poor nations.

Speaker 1 (01:18:28):
Yeah yeah, Just hold on a second while I say goodbye
here.
So thank you everyone for beinga part of today's show.
Keep downloading, sharing andcommenting on our shows.
We're having lots of fun herewith the podcast.
This is part of VolunteerAppreciation Month and we really
appreciate volunteers like Johnand all the great members and
chapter work that we have acrossthis beautiful country of ours.

(01:18:49):
So keep Canada strong, keep ourstandards up there and work
hard and do what's best for theindustry.
Until the next episode, I'llsee you there.

Speaker 3 (01:19:14):
We hope you enjoyed the show.
You've been listening to theCWB Association Welding Podcast
with Max Serlano.
If you enjoyed what you heardtoday, rate our podcast and
visit us at cwbassociationorg tolearn more.
Feel free to contact us if youhave any questions or
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Produced by the CWB Group andpresented by Max Serrano, this
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Please subscribe and thank youfor listening.