May 28, 2025 • 39 mins
The CWB Association had the privilege to attend the Skills Canada New Brunswick Provincial Competition in Saint John, NB. Join us as we bring you special episodes recorded in person to advocate for careers in skilled trades and technology across the country.
Discover the thriving welding industry in Atlantic Canada as we sit down with Sarah Thorne, a Welding Instructor at New Brunswick Community College. From her rapid journey to earning her Red Seal certification to her transition into teaching, Sarah debunks the myth that the Maritimes lack opportunities for welders. We explored the persistent challenges women face in welding. With women representing just 4% of the workforce, Sarah explains that the real issue isn't recruitment but retention. Drawing from personal experience, she discusses how she builds confidence in her female students, preparing them to navigate sometimes unwelcoming work environments while proving their technical abilities.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
All right, I can check.
Check, I'm good.
So I'm Max Duran.
Max Duran, cwb AssociationWelding Podcast.
Pod pod podcast.
Today we have a really coolguest welding podcast.
The show is about to begin.
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Happy welding.
Hello and welcome to anotheredition of the CWB Association
podcast.
My name is Max Saron and we arehere in beautiful New Brunswick
(01:09):
at St John.
This is NBCC.
We're a part of Atlantic Skillscompetition here happening this
week, which is going to befantastic.
As you know, we are a nationalsponsor for Skills Canada and
also a provincial sponsor formany of the provinces across
Canada.
Today we are going to betalking to a number of people
(01:31):
over the next couple days fromthe college here of a variety of
different trades, and our firstguest of the week is Sarah
Thorne here, who's an instructorat the college.
How are you doing?
Are you doing good?
And you know, like when youstart with this process of
skills, how nervous do you getcoming up to this week awesome,
(02:01):
so how long you been teachinghere, okay yeah, awesome.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
So how long have you been teaching here?
Okay?
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Yeah, and do you miss the Welder Fab, because
apprenticeship is kind of adifferent game right.
Shorter time, kind of in andout, right yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
I like the apprenticeship and out right
Right.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
They got a goal right .
So what about your career?
How did you get into welding inthe beginning, Sarah, you know,
I don't know.
Are you a local here?
Are you from New Brunswick?
(02:53):
Okay, and in your family wasthere trades going around.
Okay, my dad was a boilermaker.
I feel the vibe.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Yeah, okay, like a special program out here.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Cool, Cool and that was that.
So, first of all, why thetrades at all?
You know, what was it that madeyou?
You know, even look atMillwright or industrial
mechanic in high school.
What was it that attracted youto it?
(04:02):
Yeah, yeah.
And then, when you, got into it.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
You know why didn't you stick with Millwright?
What was it that pulled youinto welding and pulled you away
from Millwright?
He didn't want that, yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
I mean, it doesn't sound awesome to work at a fish
plant.
But no diss to the fish plant,it's probably a great job, yeah
yeah and then once you made thatswitch to welding, you know,
were you confident that that'sthe path you wanted to go
(04:51):
through.
You know, especially onceyou're done high school and you
gotta, you gotta really crack itinto now the apprenticeship and
building those hours, you knownow where did you go to school
for your welding?
In Moncton, kind of jump ahead,awesome, awesome.
(05:37):
That's like a very fast track.
I mean, that's not normally howquick people do it.
I'm the word.
I wasn't a red seal till,almost Like I mean, I just
welded and didn't really thinkabout it.
What was it that really helpedyou focus on this apprenticeship
stream?
Because you know you don't needa Red Seal right, you don't
have to have it, especially whenyou're working just like out in
(05:59):
the shops or you're not a union.
What was it that made youreally want to get?
Speaker 2 (06:07):
that red seal and have that ticket.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Okay, yeah, mm-hmm.
Yeah, yeah, one of the thingswe hear in canada about the
maritimes often it gets repeatedall the time is that there
isn't enough work out here.
You know I live in westerncanada.
We have historically had theinflux of people from the
maritimes come every summer forthe shutdowns.
You know I've worked with manypeople from maritimes over the
summers in Western Canada.
(06:45):
Is that true?
Do you feel like there's notenough work here?
Have you had success with work?
You know, like, for the peoplethat listen to the podcast from
around the world, is itsomewhere you can move to with a
welding career and establishyourself?
Well, at the end of the day,that's the truth.
(07:07):
Like I always say, if you'veever seen an unemployed welder,
he's not a good welder.
Yeah, yeah.
(07:28):
Government job or government job?
What are you gonna do?
Speaker 3 (07:32):
right you Right, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Yeah yeah, I did see the refinery.
Actually I asked my taxi driverI was like, is that a refinery?
And he said yeah, and I said Iworked in the refinery when I
was younger.
Regina's got a refinery too,but in Regina we do kerosene and
light fuels and I asked if thewhat kind of fuels they did here
and he had no idea.
So I say at home, really now,as a welder, did you ever get
(08:37):
the urge to travel?
Because so many of us weldersdo pull that card right because
we can, we can right yeah youknow it's.
It's interesting because I hadmy first kid around 21 too, and
(08:59):
and then I, as a welder, I wasable to find work around town
and you know there was alwayswork around.
But as soon as that kids gotolder, I was like you know, now
I get to travel, now I get to dothis stuff.
Yeah, now, in terms of yourwelding career, well, you know,
you brought up maritimemaintenance.
(09:20):
What are the big hitters outhere?
There's a refinery.
I see that Obviously, the oceanis a refinery.
I see that obviously theocean's going to provide work,
because nothing in the oceansurvives long, right, everything
gets worn down.
It's endless maintenance, right.
What are the kind of jobs outhere that would be like the
biggest ones?
Speaker 3 (09:40):
you know?
Speaker 1 (09:56):
you know?
What about mines?
Is any mines out here?
Never hear much about mining.
No, oh, you think that'd behuge now.
Tongue-stint's so rare.
Yeah, I'm plugging us here.
Show's over.
So you're welding, you're happywith your career, everything's
going great.
What pulled you into this worldof teaching?
(10:18):
You just saw an ad in the paper.
Teacher wanted, or did you knowsomebody?
(10:41):
Or which instructor?
Oh, I know John very well.
Yeah, he is.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Yeah, the East Coast.
You know NSCC, nbcc, out here.
I've noticed that they reallyhave amazing welding programs.
There's a lot of successstories.
Even the smaller satellitecolleges seem to be running a
lot of great programs both inFrench and English.
And it always kind of surprisesme because I don't feel like
(11:22):
they really get the recognitionthat they deserve Right, because
every time I'm out here I'mamazed at the programs, the
colleges, the equipment.
You know there's all theprograms there's.
You know, engineeringtechnologists programs, the wet
programs.
There's a welder fab, there'sstraight welder, there's
apprenticeship, all of it's here.
And you know, not all theprovinces can say that.
(11:42):
You know, not all the provinceshave all these programs.
And yet you always hear aboutOntario, you always hear about
Alberta.
You don't get the you know theAtlantic provinces in that same
conversation.
Why do you think yeah, like?
Have you noticed that?
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
Mm-hmm yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Mm-hmm, are you guys full Like is it like the program
, like wait-listed?
You can handle well, you canalways take over carpentry,
(12:36):
right?
We don't need a carpenter.
Yeah, whatever, if you canbuild it out of wood, you can
build it out of steel, so let'sjust do that.
Yeah, yeah, no, that's why Ihate wood.
It's not, it's not.
Can build it out of steel, solet's just do that.
Yeah, yeah, no, that's why Ihate wood.
It's not a thing.
It's like for babies.
Sorry, I shouldn't say that.
Now, you know how long have youbeen teaching here?
Speaker 3 (12:59):
now Two years, and in those two years, what have you
learned as a teacher?
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Yeah, oh yeah, hmm, what's your favorite thing to
(13:39):
teach?
We were just talking about that.
You guys only have one TIGmachine.
Well, we got both.
Yeah, yeah, okay, good, yeah,all high-frequency.
TIG so to all the weldingsuppliers out there that want to
(14:00):
make a great donation, you know, and nbcc could really use a
lot of high frequency tigmachines just saying, yeah, hey,
you got a manifesto right.
Yeah, manifest it right.
Yeah, yeah, now why TIG?
Like, I mean, it's the welding.
(14:22):
And I'm just being a jerk rightnow because you ask anybody
what's their favorite TIG, tig,tig, tig.
And how much work is there outthere for TIG?
Not that much, right, and everykid gets this idea that I want
to be the best TIG welderInstagram.
You know the social media, butin reality.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
you know which is the one that's going to be the most
useful for students, say, inlevel one or level two, right,
yeah, no.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
Yeah, mm-hmm yeah, it is yeah, yeah, is it what
you're best at?
Can you really?
Can you show off like?
Are you like, can you?
Can you do all the fancy stuff?
Can you do the cup walking?
Oh, yeah, now, do you evercompete with your students?
(15:46):
Welding is a competitive traderight, just by nature, number
one we're.
We're so highly invigilated,right, there's no way around it.
If you're not really trying tomaintain that competitive status
, even in just internally, Ifind that you kind of suffer,
right, a lot of the best weldersand I want to get into this
kind of in the second half whenwe get to talking about skills
but some of the best weldersI've ever come across have some
(16:07):
innate competitiveness to themand often they're like in hockey
or race motorcycles orsomething.
They got something on the sidethat they use to let off this
steam, right, what's your hobby?
What's the thing that you liketo do outside of welding?
That's competitive, like I mean, you push yourself to strive,
(16:32):
right.
Yeah, you love it.
Yeah, yeah, go out there andpop some wheelies for a while.
Yeah, that's all right.
Yeah, it is.
I mean, as long as you don'tget caught by the tire on the
(16:53):
way down, you're good.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
Do you?
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Mm-hmm, were you always artistic?
Was this just part of yourbackground?
Yeah, always artistic, was thisjust part of your background?
Yeah, that's one of the thingsthat I think has become very
popular now in the weldingspectrum is welded art, and I
think in the past it was kind oflooked down upon of like oh,
that's not real welding right.
(17:31):
Like I mean, you got to be astructural welder, a a pipe
welder, industrial welder, inorder to be considered a welder
or have a chance at making moneyfor a career.
But I think in the last fewyears we've kind of seen that
Like I mean, like all arts, ifyou build it, someone will buy
it.
Right, and that's just.
(17:51):
That's the thing about art isif you have the confidence to
build it and make it and notcompare yourself to other
artists, cause that's a, that'sa hole that you don't want to go
down because you'll you'll ruinyour confidence right away.
But you know, if you can buildit and make it and put it out
there, people will buy it andwe're seeing that there's, you
know, there's people that arevery, very, you know, successful
(18:13):
as artists now in the weldingworld.
Would you, or do your students,feel like you know, like that
this is an actual career now?
Like is it something you saylike, hey, you can go be a ship
builder or a or an artist, right?
Like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,I've met Chenen.
(18:36):
She's awesome, yeah, yeah yeahyeah, she's done stuff.
I think we have something ofhers in our in our head office
but yeah, no, she's been around.
She does stuff with in theS too,aws and a whole bunch of other
stuff too.
So now, on that note, you knowfor yourself as a female artist,
(19:03):
welder teacher, you know yousaid you had Jen on your
Instagram a long time ago howimportant is that female-led
community for you.
And you know, as a weldercoming up, how important was
that.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Do you feel that we're starting to make a dent,
like in, in, in therepresentation?
Cause it's, it's brutal.
There's a new show out calledthe 4% right now which is, uh,
talking about how women are only4% of the industry, right, and,
and I mean that'sembarrassingly low.
It's worse than other trades.
It is worse than other tradesand, to be honest, I couldn't
(20:26):
tell you why, because I'm onlyever been in one trade.
I don't know how it rolls withthe electricians or plumbers or
whatever, but for some reasonwe've had that inability to A
recruit women.
But I would say that's not thebiggest issue.
I would say the biggest isretention, right, because as an
instructor, I taught in thecollege for almost 10 years.
(20:48):
I had lots of women students,lots, and there was classes
where I would be 50-50 if not.
There was one class where I hadeight women and four guys right
, which I was like like wow,this is awesome, lots of girls,
you know, um, but then thestatistics don't hold well right
, like you're looking at, youknow, two years down the road, I
think it's less than 20 percentare still in the trades.
What are we doing wrong?
(21:10):
What's?
What are we missing?
Like, what, what's?
What's the problem?
Yeah, what's?
Speaker 3 (21:17):
the problem.
Yeah, mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Yeah, f off yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
Yeah, yeah, yeah how do you try to prepare them, as a
female teacher to femalestudents to stay?
(22:11):
You know?
What can you do to help them tofix that retention issue?
Awesome, well, this is a goodtime to take our commercial
(22:49):
break.
We'll be back in just a coupleseconds here after our
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And we are back here on the CWBAssociation podcast.
My name is Max Duran and I'mhere with Sarah Thorne from NBCC
.
All right, right before thebreak, we were talking about,
you know, supporting women inthe industries and yourself, as
a female instructor, trying todo what we can to tackle some of
the retention issues we havewith women in the industries,
(24:37):
and one of the key points thatyou brought up a couple of times
was confidence.
Right and right now, this weekwe are having skills competition
across the Atlantic provinces.
You have a number of provinceshere representing and fighting
for those last spots to competefor nationals, and it's a year,
a qualifying year, to go toShanghai, china.
(24:58):
How important is these type ofcompetitions, you know, in the
welding community, for yourstudents to build those, you
know, confidences.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
Bye, bye, mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Did you try skills when you were a student?
It was very common Very common.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
I was the only one that had it.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Mm-hmm now just the first time they've had one of
these big like atlanticcompetitions.
Um, because you know I've beenwell, I've been here, out here
for nationals in 2019 and I'mjust trying to think if there
was other, you know, kind ofcombined events or big events
like this I don't think so yeahhow do you feel about your
(26:19):
students as you're competing?
Speaker 2 (26:23):
yeah, yeah, you think they got it.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
You think how many competitors you have today?
Going in total between all ofthem, there's 12 got hurt and is
there post-secondary andsecondary happening out here?
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
High school kids tomorrow.
Those are always so fun towatch, they're so nervous.
Yeah, I remember being ateacher during a skills journey
and it's really interestingbecause I always think back,
because you know the kid.
I went to skills with AdamSebastian.
(27:11):
We, we ended up going to RussiaMe.
There was a co-mentorship.
We had two mentor instructors.
It's the way SAS Poly alwaysdoes it two instructors.
We find it gives a little bitof a competitive edge to the
student because they can I canbounce off ideas off two people
Right.
But he wasn't our first pick andwe always talk about that, you
know, after the fact, asinstructors, when we did our
(27:34):
internal competitions becauseyou do your little in-school
competitions to kind of filterout who's the best and right he
was maybe in our top five right.
And then when we got to the lastcompetition before provincialss
, he was top three, barely right.
Top three, not because hewasn't a great welder, but he
was kind of like slow, like justlike his timing wasn't quite
(27:57):
there and he was kind ofstruggling to finish things on
time.
But then when it came down tohaving to pick you know, know,
well, we can only send two, onein an alternate we ended up
picking Adam for a couple ofreasons.
One, that slowness we felt wecould work on, but it was an
(28:18):
attention to detail that madehim slow, which I'm okay with,
right, I'm okay with attentionto detail if I can speed that up
.
And then the other piece isthat he was a professional
motocross competitor and we knewthat that would translate,
because if you're used tocompeting, you're used to being
up on a stage, you're used tothe pressure that would be
important and you know it reallydid pay off.
(28:41):
He got pretty far.
Now, when you look at yourstudents, you know, how do you
start to filter them down?
How was the judging process hereat your college?
What about the ones that youwant to compete but don't want
(29:14):
to?
Because there's always a few ofthose, yeah, yeah come on.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Yeah, how do you find the uptake guys on it?
Like you know, 12 students.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
Come on, yeah, how do you find the uptake guys on it,
like you know, 12 students.
Do you make all 12 compete thefirst round, just because they
should all see what it's like,or do you make it completely
voluntary right from the start?
Yeah, I think we tried one year.
Just, everyone try, you know,and if you don't, you don't
whatever, just to make it, evenbecause sometimes somebody
(29:49):
doesn't want to.
But then they try it andthey're actually really good,
right, and then, cause, oftenit's just a confidence issue,
right, we keep getting back tothat confidence and for welding,
confidence doesn't grow withoutpractice.
Really, it's just.
It's just that repetition,right, you're like don't look at
(30:14):
me, yeah, yeah, especially infront of somebody.
Yeah, is there places like yousaid you worked out here, and
(30:38):
there was only one female in theone shop that you worked at.
Are you the only femaleinstructor here at NBCC for
welding?
Yeah, so theunder-representation continues.
Right Now there's some bigshops out here, right, like you
got Irving, there's some big,big companies out here and I see
(30:59):
that they're like makingattempts at like really trying
to hire a lot of women, thegirls in your classes that are
going through the programs now.
Do you think they're going tohave any trouble finding work?
Do you think that they're goingto have more opportunities than
, say, 10 years ago, when youwere going through?
(31:24):
that's good, yeah, now you saidlocal 213 a few times big union.
Out here, the one of the biggersupporters, yeah, that's pipe
(31:44):
fitters.
Yeah, okay, so do you thinkthey got a chance?
Yeah, everybody out there.
Yeah, now, how much work isthere for 213, like you know, as
it has the hall been reallysupportive of the program here
(32:06):
and and and the students yeahyeah, well, like you said,
you're waitlisted.
so, like, if people are lookingto get into the programs out
here, apply early and oftenright, yeah, now, in terms of
(32:32):
the skills competition, you knowhow's the local industry
supporting you guys?
You know the suppliers, theother local businesses.
Have you guys got a lot ofsupport from the people around
the St John area?
I've seen Miller Machineseverywhere out there.
(32:59):
Source Atlantic, I think, isout here supporting Lawn Nice.
Well, we need industry to stepup, right, because at at the end
of the day, we all need yourstudents too, like, I mean those
like we've really learned.
Industry has learned thatwelders don't like to buy from
people that don't know welding,right.
(33:21):
So you see, like lots of thecompanies, like messer and lindy
, source atlantic salespersonsare almost all ex-welders.
Now, right, yeah, because it'shard to be like, hey, I need a
035 contact for this Tragaskasgun.
(33:41):
And they're like why the newTragaskas?
Or the old Tragaskas that usedto be Bernard?
Remember the old Bernard thatused to be Tragaskas, but now
it's Tragaskis, or the oldTregaskis that used to be
Bernard?
Remember the old Bernard thatused to be Tregaskis?
Speaker 4 (33:48):
but now it's Tregaskis, that one.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
Okay, gotcha, gotcha.
So what's in the future for you?
Now?
You know, like you're young I'dput you at late 20s I have no
idea how old, you are right.
So you got a kid, you got afamily.
You're you got a family.
You're already teaching, whichis extremely young to start
teaching Like, some of us tookforever to get a teaching job,
(34:11):
Some of us not.
So what's in your future?
Do you see yourself here forthe next 30 years?
Speaker 2 (34:20):
You know when I say it like that it doesn't sound so
good.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
Yeah, mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
Yeah, yeah, oh yeah, I shouldn't have made fun of
carpentry then earlier.
I'm sorry.
Now what's?
(35:12):
next, yeah, yeah well, ithappens, it happens.
I mean I've had the samequestion asked to me but and
I've bounced right, so I got mywelder and then I got my fab and
(35:34):
then I got my blue seal right.
Yeah, yeah, it's a lot moremath, a lot more heady, which I
enjoyed, right, like.
I don't mind the books and Ilove math.
And learning new ways to domath was, I thought, really fun.
Right, because you have likethe math you do every day and
then you have like real math,like trigonometry.
(35:56):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, right, okay,it's new.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, like.
(36:16):
So one of the common things togo to after teaching is into
some type of, you know,management type of gig would you
ever like to be like?
Do you see yourself as a shopmanager, owner, anything like
that?
Like?
yeah, yeah, yeah okay, yeah, youcould always do that on the
(36:41):
side.
That's a beautiful thing aboutteaching, you know, because I
had my side business.
I had, like I had my own shop,and then when I started teaching
, I kind of pushed it off to theside, got rid of everything,
but I still kept the num, likethe company name and gst number
and everything, so that I couldalways just do those side
hustles off the side.
Because, number one, you havesummers off, right.
So instead of going to go doshutdowns and stuff, I would
just pick up a couple contractsand build stuff over the summer,
(37:03):
right?
I mean that that that's alwayssomething nice.
And then I mean you couldalways come work at cwb because,
like I mean, sometimes thisplace comes knocking, it's hard
to say no, so awesome.
Well, thank you so much.
(37:24):
This has been a fantasticinterview.
Is there anything you'd like tosay to the people about you
know skills in general or thewelding program out here?
Yeah, no, better time like thepresent, awesome.
(37:54):
Well, thank you very much,sarah.
This has been super fun and Ihope your two students get to,
uh, the finals and I hope I seeyou in regina for the national
competition.
Awesome, we'll get back to workout there you take care, and
for everyone downloading andlistening.
Thanks so much for being a partof the podcast.
We're going to have a number ofthem recorded here in in in St
John, new Brunswick, newBrunswick, and uh, sorry, early
(38:14):
morning.
Yeah, words are hard today, butuh, yeah, check them all out.
Speaker 4 (38:34):
We're gonna have lots .
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(38:55):
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All right, I can check.
Check, I'm good.
So I'm Max Duran.
Max Duran, cwb AssociationWelding Podcast.
Pod pod podcast.
Today we have a really coolguest welding podcast.
The show is about to begin.
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Happy welding.
Hello and welcome to anotheredition of the CWB Association
podcast.
My name is Max Saron and we arehere in beautiful New Brunswick
(01:09):
at St John.
This is NBCC.
We're a part of Atlantic Skillscompetition here happening this
week, which is going to befantastic.
As you know, we are a nationalsponsor for Skills Canada and
also a provincial sponsor formany of the provinces across
Canada.
Today we are going to betalking to a number of people
(01:31):
over the next couple days fromthe college here of a variety of
different trades, and our firstguest of the week is Sarah
Thorne here, who's an instructorat the college.
How are you doing?
Are you doing good?
And you know, like when youstart with this process of
skills, how nervous do you getcoming up to this week awesome,
(02:01):
so how long you been teachinghere, okay yeah, awesome.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
So how long have you been teaching here?
Okay?
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Yeah, and do you miss the Welder Fab, because
apprenticeship is kind of adifferent game right.
Shorter time, kind of in andout, right yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
I like the apprenticeship and out right
Right.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
They got a goal right .
So what about your career?
How did you get into welding inthe beginning, Sarah, you know,
I don't know.
Are you a local here?
Are you from New Brunswick?
(02:53):
Okay, and in your family wasthere trades going around.
Okay, my dad was a boilermaker.
I feel the vibe.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Yeah, okay, like a special program out here.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Cool, Cool and that was that.
So, first of all, why thetrades at all?
You know, what was it that madeyou?
You know, even look atMillwright or industrial
mechanic in high school.
What was it that attracted youto it?
(04:02):
Yeah, yeah.
And then, when you, got into it.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
You know why didn't you stick with Millwright?
What was it that pulled youinto welding and pulled you away
from Millwright?
He didn't want that, yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
I mean, it doesn't sound awesome to work at a fish
plant.
But no diss to the fish plant,it's probably a great job, yeah
yeah and then once you made thatswitch to welding, you know,
were you confident that that'sthe path you wanted to go
(04:51):
through.
You know, especially onceyou're done high school and you
gotta, you gotta really crack itinto now the apprenticeship and
building those hours, you knownow where did you go to school
for your welding?
In Moncton, kind of jump ahead,awesome, awesome.
(05:37):
That's like a very fast track.
I mean, that's not normally howquick people do it.
I'm the word.
I wasn't a red seal till,almost Like I mean, I just
welded and didn't really thinkabout it.
What was it that really helpedyou focus on this apprenticeship
stream?
Because you know you don't needa Red Seal right, you don't
have to have it, especially whenyou're working just like out in
(05:59):
the shops or you're not a union.
What was it that made youreally want to get?
Speaker 2 (06:07):
that red seal and have that ticket.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Okay, yeah, mm-hmm.
Yeah, yeah, one of the thingswe hear in canada about the
maritimes often it gets repeatedall the time is that there
isn't enough work out here.
You know I live in westerncanada.
We have historically had theinflux of people from the
maritimes come every summer forthe shutdowns.
You know I've worked with manypeople from maritimes over the
summers in Western Canada.
(06:45):
Is that true?
Do you feel like there's notenough work here?
Have you had success with work?
You know, like, for the peoplethat listen to the podcast from
around the world, is itsomewhere you can move to with a
welding career and establishyourself?
Well, at the end of the day,that's the truth.
(07:07):
Like I always say, if you'veever seen an unemployed welder,
he's not a good welder.
Yeah, yeah.
(07:28):
Government job or government job?
What are you gonna do?
Speaker 3 (07:32):
right you Right, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Yeah yeah, I did see the refinery.
Actually I asked my taxi driverI was like, is that a refinery?
And he said yeah, and I said Iworked in the refinery when I
was younger.
Regina's got a refinery too,but in Regina we do kerosene and
light fuels and I asked if thewhat kind of fuels they did here
and he had no idea.
So I say at home, really now,as a welder, did you ever get
(08:37):
the urge to travel?
Because so many of us weldersdo pull that card right because
we can, we can right yeah youknow it's.
It's interesting because I hadmy first kid around 21 too, and
(08:59):
and then I, as a welder, I wasable to find work around town
and you know there was alwayswork around.
But as soon as that kids gotolder, I was like you know, now
I get to travel, now I get to dothis stuff.
Yeah, now, in terms of yourwelding career, well, you know,
you brought up maritimemaintenance.
(09:20):
What are the big hitters outhere?
There's a refinery.
I see that Obviously, the oceanis a refinery.
I see that obviously theocean's going to provide work,
because nothing in the oceansurvives long, right, everything
gets worn down.
It's endless maintenance, right.
What are the kind of jobs outhere that would be like the
biggest ones?
Speaker 3 (09:40):
you know?
Speaker 1 (09:56):
you know?
What about mines?
Is any mines out here?
Never hear much about mining.
No, oh, you think that'd behuge now.
Tongue-stint's so rare.
Yeah, I'm plugging us here.
Show's over.
So you're welding, you're happywith your career, everything's
going great.
What pulled you into this worldof teaching?
(10:18):
You just saw an ad in the paper.
Teacher wanted, or did you knowsomebody?
(10:41):
Or which instructor?
Oh, I know John very well.
Yeah, he is.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Yeah, the East Coast.
You know NSCC, nbcc, out here.
I've noticed that they reallyhave amazing welding programs.
There's a lot of successstories.
Even the smaller satellitecolleges seem to be running a
lot of great programs both inFrench and English.
And it always kind of surprisesme because I don't feel like
(11:22):
they really get the recognitionthat they deserve Right, because
every time I'm out here I'mamazed at the programs, the
colleges, the equipment.
You know there's all theprograms there's.
You know, engineeringtechnologists programs, the wet
programs.
There's a welder fab, there'sstraight welder, there's
apprenticeship, all of it's here.
And you know, not all theprovinces can say that.
(11:42):
You know, not all the provinceshave all these programs.
And yet you always hear aboutOntario, you always hear about
Alberta.
You don't get the you know theAtlantic provinces in that same
conversation.
Why do you think yeah, like?
Have you noticed that?
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
Mm-hmm yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Mm-hmm, are you guys full Like is it like the program
, like wait-listed?
You can handle well, you canalways take over carpentry,
(12:36):
right?
We don't need a carpenter.
Yeah, whatever, if you canbuild it out of wood, you can
build it out of steel, so let'sjust do that.
Yeah, yeah, no, that's why Ihate wood.
It's not, it's not.
Can build it out of steel, solet's just do that.
Yeah, yeah, no, that's why Ihate wood.
It's not a thing.
It's like for babies.
Sorry, I shouldn't say that.
Now, you know how long have youbeen teaching here?
Speaker 3 (12:59):
now Two years, and in those two years, what have you
learned as a teacher?
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Yeah, oh yeah, hmm, what's your favorite thing to
(13:39):
teach?
We were just talking about that.
You guys only have one TIGmachine.
Well, we got both.
Yeah, yeah, okay, good, yeah,all high-frequency.
TIG so to all the weldingsuppliers out there that want to
(14:00):
make a great donation, you know, and nbcc could really use a
lot of high frequency tigmachines just saying, yeah, hey,
you got a manifesto right.
Yeah, manifest it right.
Yeah, yeah, now why TIG?
Like, I mean, it's the welding.
(14:22):
And I'm just being a jerk rightnow because you ask anybody
what's their favorite TIG, tig,tig, tig.
And how much work is there outthere for TIG?
Not that much, right, and everykid gets this idea that I want
to be the best TIG welderInstagram.
You know the social media, butin reality.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
you know which is the one that's going to be the most
useful for students, say, inlevel one or level two, right,
yeah, no.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
Yeah, mm-hmm yeah, it is yeah, yeah, is it what
you're best at?
Can you really?
Can you show off like?
Are you like, can you?
Can you do all the fancy stuff?
Can you do the cup walking?
Oh, yeah, now, do you evercompete with your students?
(15:46):
Welding is a competitive traderight, just by nature, number
one we're.
We're so highly invigilated,right, there's no way around it.
If you're not really trying tomaintain that competitive status
, even in just internally, Ifind that you kind of suffer,
right, a lot of the best weldersand I want to get into this
kind of in the second half whenwe get to talking about skills
but some of the best weldersI've ever come across have some
(16:07):
innate competitiveness to themand often they're like in hockey
or race motorcycles orsomething.
They got something on the sidethat they use to let off this
steam, right, what's your hobby?
What's the thing that you liketo do outside of welding?
That's competitive, like I mean, you push yourself to strive,
(16:32):
right.
Yeah, you love it.
Yeah, yeah, go out there andpop some wheelies for a while.
Yeah, that's all right.
Yeah, it is.
I mean, as long as you don'tget caught by the tire on the
(16:53):
way down, you're good.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
Do you?
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Mm-hmm, were you always artistic?
Was this just part of yourbackground?
Yeah, always artistic, was thisjust part of your background?
Yeah, that's one of the thingsthat I think has become very
popular now in the weldingspectrum is welded art, and I
think in the past it was kind oflooked down upon of like oh,
that's not real welding right.
(17:31):
Like I mean, you got to be astructural welder, a a pipe
welder, industrial welder, inorder to be considered a welder
or have a chance at making moneyfor a career.
But I think in the last fewyears we've kind of seen that
Like I mean, like all arts, ifyou build it, someone will buy
it.
Right, and that's just.
(17:51):
That's the thing about art isif you have the confidence to
build it and make it and notcompare yourself to other
artists, cause that's a, that'sa hole that you don't want to go
down because you'll you'll ruinyour confidence right away.
But you know, if you can buildit and make it and put it out
there, people will buy it andwe're seeing that there's, you
know, there's people that arevery, very, you know, successful
(18:13):
as artists now in the weldingworld.
Would you, or do your students,feel like you know, like that
this is an actual career now?
Like is it something you saylike, hey, you can go be a ship
builder or a or an artist, right?
Like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,I've met Chenen.
(18:36):
She's awesome, yeah, yeah yeahyeah, she's done stuff.
I think we have something ofhers in our in our head office
but yeah, no, she's been around.
She does stuff with in theS too,aws and a whole bunch of other
stuff too.
So now, on that note, you knowfor yourself as a female artist,
(19:03):
welder teacher, you know yousaid you had Jen on your
Instagram a long time ago howimportant is that female-led
community for you.
And you know, as a weldercoming up, how important was
that.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Do you feel that we're starting to make a dent,
like in, in, in therepresentation?
Cause it's, it's brutal.
There's a new show out calledthe 4% right now which is, uh,
talking about how women are only4% of the industry, right, and,
and I mean that'sembarrassingly low.
It's worse than other trades.
It is worse than other tradesand, to be honest, I couldn't
(20:26):
tell you why, because I'm onlyever been in one trade.
I don't know how it rolls withthe electricians or plumbers or
whatever, but for some reasonwe've had that inability to A
recruit women.
But I would say that's not thebiggest issue.
I would say the biggest isretention, right, because as an
instructor, I taught in thecollege for almost 10 years.
(20:48):
I had lots of women students,lots, and there was classes
where I would be 50-50 if not.
There was one class where I hadeight women and four guys right
, which I was like like wow,this is awesome, lots of girls,
you know, um, but then thestatistics don't hold well right
, like you're looking at, youknow, two years down the road, I
think it's less than 20 percentare still in the trades.
What are we doing wrong?
(21:10):
What's?
What are we missing?
Like, what, what's?
What's the problem?
Yeah, what's?
Speaker 3 (21:17):
the problem.
Yeah, mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Yeah, f off yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
Yeah, yeah, yeah how do you try to prepare them, as a
female teacher to femalestudents to stay?
(22:11):
You know?
What can you do to help them tofix that retention issue?
Awesome, well, this is a goodtime to take our commercial
(22:49):
break.
We'll be back in just a coupleseconds here after our
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And we are back here on the CWBAssociation podcast.
My name is Max Duran and I'mhere with Sarah Thorne from NBCC
.
All right, right before thebreak, we were talking about,
you know, supporting women inthe industries and yourself, as
a female instructor, trying todo what we can to tackle some of
the retention issues we havewith women in the industries,
(24:37):
and one of the key points thatyou brought up a couple of times
was confidence.
Right and right now, this weekwe are having skills competition
across the Atlantic provinces.
You have a number of provinceshere representing and fighting
for those last spots to competefor nationals, and it's a year,
a qualifying year, to go toShanghai, china.
(24:58):
How important is these type ofcompetitions, you know, in the
welding community, for yourstudents to build those, you
know, confidences.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
Bye, bye, mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Did you try skills when you were a student?
It was very common Very common.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
I was the only one that had it.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Mm-hmm now just the first time they've had one of
these big like atlanticcompetitions.
Um, because you know I've beenwell, I've been here, out here
for nationals in 2019 and I'mjust trying to think if there
was other, you know, kind ofcombined events or big events
like this I don't think so yeahhow do you feel about your
(26:19):
students as you're competing?
Speaker 2 (26:23):
yeah, yeah, you think they got it.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
You think how many competitors you have today?
Going in total between all ofthem, there's 12 got hurt and is
there post-secondary andsecondary happening out here?
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
High school kids tomorrow.
Those are always so fun towatch, they're so nervous.
Yeah, I remember being ateacher during a skills journey
and it's really interestingbecause I always think back,
because you know the kid.
I went to skills with AdamSebastian.
(27:11):
We, we ended up going to RussiaMe.
There was a co-mentorship.
We had two mentor instructors.
It's the way SAS Poly alwaysdoes it two instructors.
We find it gives a little bitof a competitive edge to the
student because they can I canbounce off ideas off two people
Right.
But he wasn't our first pick andwe always talk about that, you
know, after the fact, asinstructors, when we did our
(27:34):
internal competitions becauseyou do your little in-school
competitions to kind of filterout who's the best and right he
was maybe in our top five right.
And then when we got to the lastcompetition before provincialss
, he was top three, barely right.
Top three, not because hewasn't a great welder, but he
was kind of like slow, like justlike his timing wasn't quite
(27:57):
there and he was kind ofstruggling to finish things on
time.
But then when it came down tohaving to pick you know, know,
well, we can only send two, onein an alternate we ended up
picking Adam for a couple ofreasons.
One, that slowness we felt wecould work on, but it was an
(28:18):
attention to detail that madehim slow, which I'm okay with,
right, I'm okay with attentionto detail if I can speed that up
.
And then the other piece isthat he was a professional
motocross competitor and we knewthat that would translate,
because if you're used tocompeting, you're used to being
up on a stage, you're used tothe pressure that would be
important and you know it reallydid pay off.
(28:41):
He got pretty far.
Now, when you look at yourstudents, you know, how do you
start to filter them down?
How was the judging process hereat your college?
What about the ones that youwant to compete but don't want
(29:14):
to?
Because there's always a few ofthose, yeah, yeah come on.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Yeah, how do you find the uptake guys on it?
Like you know, 12 students.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
Come on, yeah, how do you find the uptake guys on it,
like you know, 12 students.
Do you make all 12 compete thefirst round, just because they
should all see what it's like,or do you make it completely
voluntary right from the start?
Yeah, I think we tried one year.
Just, everyone try, you know,and if you don't, you don't
whatever, just to make it, evenbecause sometimes somebody
(29:49):
doesn't want to.
But then they try it andthey're actually really good,
right, and then, cause, oftenit's just a confidence issue,
right, we keep getting back tothat confidence and for welding,
confidence doesn't grow withoutpractice.
Really, it's just.
It's just that repetition,right, you're like don't look at
(30:14):
me, yeah, yeah, especially infront of somebody.
Yeah, is there places like yousaid you worked out here, and
(30:38):
there was only one female in theone shop that you worked at.
Are you the only femaleinstructor here at NBCC for
welding?
Yeah, so theunder-representation continues.
Right Now there's some bigshops out here, right, like you
got Irving, there's some big,big companies out here and I see
(30:59):
that they're like makingattempts at like really trying
to hire a lot of women, thegirls in your classes that are
going through the programs now.
Do you think they're going tohave any trouble finding work?
Do you think that they're goingto have more opportunities than
, say, 10 years ago, when youwere going through?
(31:24):
that's good, yeah, now you saidlocal 213 a few times big union.
Out here, the one of the biggersupporters, yeah, that's pipe
(31:44):
fitters.
Yeah, okay, so do you thinkthey got a chance?
Yeah, everybody out there.
Yeah, now, how much work isthere for 213, like you know, as
it has the hall been reallysupportive of the program here
(32:06):
and and and the students yeahyeah, well, like you said,
you're waitlisted.
so, like, if people are lookingto get into the programs out
here, apply early and oftenright, yeah, now, in terms of
(32:32):
the skills competition, you knowhow's the local industry
supporting you guys?
You know the suppliers, theother local businesses.
Have you guys got a lot ofsupport from the people around
the St John area?
I've seen Miller Machineseverywhere out there.
(32:59):
Source Atlantic, I think, isout here supporting Lawn Nice.
Well, we need industry to stepup, right, because at at the end
of the day, we all need yourstudents too, like, I mean those
like we've really learned.
Industry has learned thatwelders don't like to buy from
people that don't know welding,right.
(33:21):
So you see, like lots of thecompanies, like messer and lindy
, source atlantic salespersonsare almost all ex-welders.
Now, right, yeah, because it'shard to be like, hey, I need a
035 contact for this Tragaskasgun.
(33:41):
And they're like why the newTragaskas?
Or the old Tragaskas that usedto be Bernard?
Remember the old Bernard thatused to be Tragaskas, but now
it's Tragaskis, or the oldTregaskis that used to be
Bernard?
Remember the old Bernard thatused to be Tregaskis?
Speaker 4 (33:48):
but now it's Tregaskis, that one.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
Okay, gotcha, gotcha.
So what's in the future for you?
Now?
You know, like you're young I'dput you at late 20s I have no
idea how old, you are right.
So you got a kid, you got afamily.
You're you got a family.
You're already teaching, whichis extremely young to start
teaching Like, some of us tookforever to get a teaching job,
(34:11):
Some of us not.
So what's in your future?
Do you see yourself here forthe next 30 years?
Speaker 2 (34:20):
You know when I say it like that it doesn't sound so
good.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
Yeah, mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
Yeah, yeah, oh yeah, I shouldn't have made fun of
carpentry then earlier.
I'm sorry.
Now what's?
(35:12):
next, yeah, yeah well, ithappens, it happens.
I mean I've had the samequestion asked to me but and
I've bounced right, so I got mywelder and then I got my fab and
(35:34):
then I got my blue seal right.
Yeah, yeah, it's a lot moremath, a lot more heady, which I
enjoyed, right, like.
I don't mind the books and Ilove math.
And learning new ways to domath was, I thought, really fun.
Right, because you have likethe math you do every day and
then you have like real math,like trigonometry.
(35:56):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, right, okay,it's new.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, like.
(36:16):
So one of the common things togo to after teaching is into
some type of, you know,management type of gig would you
ever like to be like?
Do you see yourself as a shopmanager, owner, anything like
that?
Like?
yeah, yeah, yeah okay, yeah, youcould always do that on the
(36:41):
side.
That's a beautiful thing aboutteaching, you know, because I
had my side business.
I had, like I had my own shop,and then when I started teaching
, I kind of pushed it off to theside, got rid of everything,
but I still kept the num, likethe company name and gst number
and everything, so that I couldalways just do those side
hustles off the side.
Because, number one, you havesummers off, right.
So instead of going to go doshutdowns and stuff, I would
just pick up a couple contractsand build stuff over the summer,
(37:03):
right?
I mean that that that's alwayssomething nice.
And then I mean you couldalways come work at cwb because,
like I mean, sometimes thisplace comes knocking, it's hard
to say no, so awesome.
Well, thank you so much.
(37:24):
This has been a fantasticinterview.
Is there anything you'd like tosay to the people about you
know skills in general or thewelding program out here?
Yeah, no, better time like thepresent, awesome.
(37:54):
Well, thank you very much,sarah.
This has been super fun and Ihope your two students get to,
uh, the finals and I hope I seeyou in regina for the national
competition.
Awesome, we'll get back to workout there you take care, and
for everyone downloading andlistening.
Thanks so much for being a partof the podcast.
We're going to have a number ofthem recorded here in in in St
John, new Brunswick, newBrunswick, and uh, sorry, early
(38:14):
morning.
Yeah, words are hard today, butuh, yeah, check them all out.
Speaker 4 (38:34):
We're gonna have lots .
We hope you enjoy the show.
Do you own a company in thewelding industry or want to
share a targeted message withour listeners?
Then this 45-second audio adspace could be yours.
We have the coolest listenersfrom all over the world, with
over 60,000 downloads, and 88%are from North America.
This podcast serves to educateand connect the welding
(38:55):
community together and isavailable on all major platforms
, including the CWB GroupNetwork.
If you are interested, reachout to info at cwbassociationorg
.
Look at that.
I just gave you all of thatinformation in only 45 seconds.
You've been listening to theCWB Association Welding Podcast
(39:16):
and if you enjoyed what youheard today or want to send us
some questions to answer, youcan text the show using the link
in the episode descriptionbelow.
We can't wait to hear from you.
Please subscribe or visit us atcwbassociationorg to learn more
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