June 25, 2025 • 44 mins
The CWB Association had the privilege to attend the Skills Canada New Brunswick Provincial Competition in Saint John, NB. Join us as we bring you special episodes recorded in person to advocate for careers in skilled trades and technology across the country.
Forget everything you thought you knew about welding careers in Eastern Canada. In this eye-opening conversation with Evan Ross, Welding Instructor at UA Local 213 in Saint John, New Brunswick, we discover why the once-common story of East Coast welders heading west for work has become outdated. Evan takes us behind the scenes of the UA and explores the fascinating challenges of complex welding applications, from nuclear-grade open root welds to exotic materials like titanium and duplex stainless steel.
Tune in for aspiring tradespeople; this episode offers straightforward advice on joining the United Associations (UA).
Ready to see where your welding journey might lead? Subscribe now to hear more inspiring stories from across the industry.
Check out UA Local213
Website: https://ualocal213.ca/
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
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Happy welding.
Hello and welcome to anotheredition of the CWB Association
podcast.
My name is Max Saron and I amhere in St John, new Brunswick
(01:09):
for Atlantic Skills Canadacompetitions.
One of the great sponsors andsupporters and hirers out here
in the East Coast and for thiswonderful event is the UA213
Hall, and today I have Evan Ross, who is a welding instructor
for the hall.
How are you doing, evan?
I'm good.
How are you?
I'm good.
So what brings you to NBCCtoday?
(01:30):
Oh well, we've got.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
We've got four computers doing welding and
seven in the pipe fitting.
I'm just coming out to show oursupport.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
You're just running the hall, you're just running
the show out here.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Yeah, that's right just showing wearing the logo
and trying to get some recruits,maybe.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
So what is it that you do specifically at the hall?
Speaker 3 (01:50):
I'm one of the welding instructors.
I also do getting into thesafety.
So fall protection, confinedspace, that kind of thing
Anything that our members needto get out on the job.
Make sure that they have allthe all the proper training so
they can go right to work.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Now out here I've been hearing lots about the UA.
You know, kind of from allcorners and across Canada, you
know the unions have differentroles in terms of, and even
within the UA they havedifferent roles in terms of the
industries they support, the jobsites they're on your hall
seems quite strong in this area.
So what are some of the jobmarkets in this area that your
(02:28):
your hall, would support?
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Well, you know, st John especially, is a very
industrial city.
You know, we've got right rightout the window here we've got
one of the largest one of thelargest refineries in North
America and we've got a nuclearpower plants, a couple different
power plants, alt coupledifferent power plants.
Pulp mill paper mills.
And then you go farther downthe coast you get some.
(02:50):
There's some fish plants andstuff like that.
There's a lot of industry in afairly small area, so it's a lot
of heavy industry.
So, that's where our tradesreally are needed.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Yeah, it's one of the topics.
I, you know, just came frominterviewing Adam and he brought
that up too.
You know the amount of heavyindustry and industry in general
for a small area.
Small population kind of putsyou in a difficult spot, Right.
I've always looked at how manycolleges there is out here for
(03:24):
the trades.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
And how many trades programs there is in the East
Coast and there's a lot for theamount of people.
There's a lot Right.
And coming from the West,because I'm a Westerner, I
didn't know that.
I thought that you know allthese West, all these East
Coasters come to the West towork because there's no work,
but what I've learned is thatthere's plenty of work here.
It's starting to turn around.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Yeah.
And it's, it's changed quite abit.
Yeah, and all we've our, ourjurisdiction alone.
We've got a lot of work.
There's a lot of major projectscoming up.
You know there's a a boilerexpansion at the the West side.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
I heard about that.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
All the paper here.
Mel, I heard about that.
There's like a 1.7 million manhours for the pipe fitter Like
it's a lot of work coming up inthe next few years and we need
more young people getting intothe industry and taking trades.
And because we've got a lot ofmembers retiring as well, the
ratio of new people coming in topeople going out is starting to
(04:24):
get unbalanced pretty quick.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
The lists are getting thin at the top with all the
old guys my dad.
He was a boiler maker for 50years.
He retired early, he got sick,he got cancer but he had to
retire early.
But he got calls for like thenext 10 years being like are you
sure you don't want to come?
Speaker 2 (04:46):
out.
Are you sure you don't want tocome out?
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Because it's just can't find people, just not
enough.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
See, when I first got in I've been a member since
2017 and I was working out ofanother fab shop before that,
right out of school, and thatwas one of the things they told
me when I, when I said I wasleaving and joining the UA they
said you know, you're going tobe.
You're only going to work ashutdown here and there.
You'll be on unemployment andtraveling out west.
I've worked steady the entiretime, my entire career.
(05:14):
I haven't had any low points.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Yeah, have never been unemployed.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
No, it's.
Time's changed a lot in thelast few years, so there's a
there's a big influx in workright now.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Yeah, the, you know, there's the old, uh, the pokey
trains back in the day.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Yeah.
Doesn't seem to be a thinganymore.
It's pretty well by choice now.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
If you're going to.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
If you're going to take time off, it's because you
want to.
Yeah.
You know, if you want to work,if there's work out there.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
So, for the people that are listening to the
podcast and are not aware, wehave a lot of listeners in the
US as well, where unions are notnearly as strong as here in
Canada.
You know what is it the UA does, what are all the parts of the
UA?
Because it's not just welding,welding is one piece of the many
roles that the UA covers.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
Right.
So we're all the pipe tradespipe fitter, steam fitter,
plumbers and we've had sprinklerfitters, hvac, gas techs,
instrumentation, anything to dowith pipe.
We deal with it.
It's our jurisdiction.
So that's a big part of a lotof the heavy industry,
especially in even commercial.
(06:22):
You know you get into thebigger cities in Toronto,
edmonton, stuff like that.
You know they have a wholenother jurisdiction for high
rise and you know the sprinklerand sprinkler systems and
plumbing systems that kind ofstuff.
It's a huge industry.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Yeah, Now how do you stay on top of the training for
all those different legs of that?
Speaker 3 (06:44):
It's a challenge but you know we've got.
The good part about it is thatwe get.
We take our trainers from thejob.
You know I I just took thisposition in the new year so I've
only been doing it a littlewhile I came right off the job.
I've been you know, I've been awelder since 10 years.
We really take the on the jobtraining aspect and put it into
(07:07):
our into our apprenticeship.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Yeah, right.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
And we, we have mock-ups at our, our hall.
It's, it's a real life scenario, for you know, for pipe racks
and pump stations and thingslike that.
You know, we want them to seewhat they're going to actually
experience when they get out onthe job, and so there's no, just
you can't learn.
Want them to see what they'regoing to actually experience
when they get out on the job,and so you can't learn
(07:30):
everything from a book in theclassroom.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
We'd like to see hands-on training and, for the
welders specifically, thewelding world that you teach in
and when people look at pipefitters in terms of welders, you
know what are some of thethings that you would be
typically doing.
What are the types of weldsthat a pipe welder in the hall
would be doing, say, on theday-to-day?
Speaker 3 (07:56):
Day-to-day it's.
You know our bread and butterwould be like a.
In New Brunswick it's called F3, f4.
So 6011, 6010 route, 7018, filland cap.
Most of it's done on a two-inchdouble X pipe.
Coupon sent out for x-ray.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
So double X would be like a SCED 80 or a SCED 160?
.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
A little.
It's heavier than a 160.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
the next step up, Okay 240, I think, is what it is
and uh, you know we.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
there's a lot of different alloys around here,
like right now.
Another popular one for uh, forthe pulp mills especially, is
duplex.
Right you know we use 2205,2209.
That's a that's a reallypopular one right now.
We've got a same spot.
We've got some titanium thatthey do there, you know they're.
They're sending a few, a few ofthe better guys over that, you
(08:41):
know, over.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
And those aren't common.
No Things to do, I mean duplexis getting pretty common now.
Yeah Right.
For for the people who don'tknow what duplex is, it's a
variation of stainless RightRight.
So Magnetic.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
You know it's got a lot of a lot of same properties,
a lot of high carbon.
You've got to.
You can't like a 309 or 316stainless.
You got to.
You got to treat it waydifferent because it.
You got to watch thosetemperatures, you know it might
look, it might turn out lookingbeautiful, but then they x-ray
(09:12):
it and it's, it's garbage on theinside.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
Unless you know unless you someone tells you
that that you got to weld itdifferently too.
You wouldn't know, because youcan do it you differently too.
You wouldn't know because youcan do it, you can.
You know, you can crank yourheat up and just wash over it
and make it look really pretty,yeah, but you're not getting any
penetration it'll be a sugarcube on the inside and lack of
penetration.
All through it oh, it's duplex,especially you gotta, you
(09:36):
really gotta dip it yeah doingtag.
You lay wire, you know.
You just lay the filler on andwash over with the dig torch.
It doesn't work.
It's not going to work.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Well, and the inner inner, inner pass temperatures
are so critical when it comes tothe duplexes, especially the
2209, because it'll separate out.
You know it'll separate out andthat's a full cutout Like it's
not a.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
There ain't no repair on that.
No, you're not just going in,you know, just cutting into a
little spot and fixing it.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
No, you're not just grinding that out and tapping it
in.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
No, it's all starting fresh.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
Same with Inconel.
We've got, we've had a few morepeople, the P44s.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
Being sent for.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
Inconel right?
You know we had a.
We watched a YouTube video thenight before and.
I said you know you're thinkingit'll crack like.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
A cast.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
Almost Right, it'll just split, it welds really nice
.
You know it's a little dirty,but you think it's the same
thing.
It looks like it's going reallygood, and then you just you
start your hot pass and it youhear that ting and you know it's
all over.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
So, as a trainer, how do you keep your skills up on
the new stuff you know?
Because you you never knoweverything right, like I mean, I
welded in the stainless world.
I was a stainless guy.
That was what.
That was my bread and butter.
I worked in the mining industry.
Never enough work for stainlesswelders, or never too much work
.
Is that right?
Speaker 2 (11:07):
no, there was always lots of work yeah, for stainless
welders in the mines.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
But you know, if someone came up to me and said,
oh, you're a great stainlesswelder, here I have some
titanium for you to weld it's,and uh what?
Speaker 3 (11:18):
you know, right, it's .
No, I, I like to.
You know there's a lot ofinformation out there online.
I watch all kinds of videos.
You know you get the youngergenerations coming in saying, oh
, I saw this on TikTok lastnight or whatever.
Well, you know you gotta becareful with it's not always
true.
But you know there's definitelysome good information.
I pay attention to that and Iread up on a lot of the newer
(11:40):
technologies and stuff like thatand I, I like to.
I'm young.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
I still like to weld.
I like getting in the booth andtrying out different things
trying out new stuff.
That's usually really what itcomes down to is you got to try
it, you got to?
Speaker 3 (11:52):
keep at it too.
You can't just you know.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Just wing it Right.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
It's, you know, it's kind of really know all the ins
and outs.
You gotta, you gotta stay at it.
You gotta continue to keep upyour skills.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Yeah, I remember I used to work with this welder.
He was an old biker guy and, uh, one of the kids was in in
class learning and he said well,I learned welding from my uncle
.
You know, you get those kids.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
Oh, yeah, yeah, and you know those are the worst
ones because, you're gonna haveto unteach everything.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Uncle bob said, or whatever you know, and he's like
well, my uncle said it's likeriding a bike and uh, and this
guy says well, you can ride yourdirt bike all day, but I'm not
letting you on my harley right,exactly I was like, yeah, that's
a good way of putting thatbecause it can be sort of the
same, but it ain't right.
Right, so you know.
So you know, for the UA youguys have a very extensive
(12:47):
training program, it's you know,I know it's something that
you're very proud of.
I've been friends with RayLemieux.
He just retired, but I've beenfriends with Ray for like
20-some years.
He's a great guy and you knowthe wealth of information that
comes from the pipe trades is.
It filters down into the othertrades, into all of them right.
Right and I think it happensbetween all of them.
You've got the ironworkers, theboilermakers, the millwrights.
(13:08):
Everyone's kind of got theirniche, that they work in, that
they specialize in.
But when it comes to pressurevessels and piping it's going to
be a lot of pipe fitter work.
When I look at the type ofaccreditation and testing that
the UA has to go through formost of their jobs, it's usually
another step above what lots ofother places have to go through
(13:30):
.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
Yeah, we really work to a high standard.
We have a standard forexcellence that we adhere to and
it's very important to us.
We spend a lot of money ontraining.
It's a deduction Every memberpays into a training fund.
They want to use it, they wantto see it go in action.
They want to see how it go asfar as it can right.
(13:52):
You know it's their livelihood,they want to, they want to get
the most out of it and you knowwe get a lot of people that are
very proud to proud to be uamembers and proud to participate
in the training.
Oh, we've got people coming instopping down on their days off
just walking through the shop,just seeing if they can help out
.
Like you know, you get it's a.
It's a real community thatwants to see each other succeed.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Yeah, and that's something that's, I guess, when
you look at kind of the declineof the unions, because there has
been kind of the thought thatthe unions are in decline, not
just in Canada, like around theworld.
There's been kind of a desireto get away from standards and
codes, to get away from so muchtesting and rigorous, because
(14:39):
they say it slows down the job,makes the jobs too expensive.
Stuff like that I don't buy it.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
No, I don't buy it and I don't see it here either.
Especially, you know NBCC.
Here you see all of their topstudents are trying to get a
place with us.
You know they want, they wantto go and do the best they can
in their career and they'recoming knocking on our doors.
(15:05):
You know it's they're notlooking to go to somewhere that
they're not going to be testedand be you know, live up to a
certain codes and standards and,you know, really push yourself
to your limits.
And that's what I really likeabout the skills competitions is
it shows what your limits areand you got to really get pushed
through that and see how faryou can go.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
And so my favorite time of year- yeah Well,
competition breeds excellence,right and uh, competition breeds
excellence right.
And that's something I thinkthat welders in general take
heed to, because we get toldthat in every welding program,
regardless of where you are inCanada, regardless of the hall
you're in what type of union, atthe end of the day, welding is
(15:49):
not something you can skipthrough.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
No.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Right, you're not just skipping through this
program.
You're not just going to fakeyour way into a welding job and
think you're going to have acareer.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
That's right, you really got to show your skill.
You've got to put the time in,put in the effort.
You just try and skip throughit.
You're not going to make itvery far.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
You're not very well there.
No, yeah, yeah, it's just notgoing to work for you.
The cooking school down thehall, that's right.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
It's not for you.
You don't want to put the timein, put the effort in.
You picked the wrong, wrongtrade.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
So before your job as a trainer you know you said you
just started in January whatwas it that you were doing with
the hall you were on as a welder, or as a.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
I'm a welder, yeah, I , you know I have.
I was always trying to getinvolved and you know, volunteer
and different committees andstuff like that.
But but the last nine years Iguess, I've been working various
sites in the in the city.
I never I've been lucky Ihaven't had to travel.
You know there's been work herethat I can do the last three
years.
I was uh, I was on themaintenance crew with Point of
(16:52):
Pearl, the nuclear power planthere.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Okay, yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
And the and the sense of the industry around here.
That would be the.
That's, that's your top.
That's about as good as it getsQualifications there.
You know we do 14 job tests justto get down there, right?
You know they test you on everypossible thing that you might
run into down there and theywant to see that you can do
every bit of it with no issues.
Right, they really put you tothe test.
(17:19):
And the same when you're inthere doing the job, they
there's work somewhere else andthere might be one guy come and
check on it.
There's 10 coming and lookingat it there yeah.
They really make sure that it'sflawless.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Well, I met, uh, eric dickerson from opg.
He's a tig welder for them.
I don't know if you ever heardof him or met him, but he's one
of the better welders in canada.
Like the guy's an incredibleguy, I would put him at late 30s
now, um and he was showing mesome of the job tests that he
has to do just to stay on at thepower plant you know like a one
inch thick titanium full ofwelds and it's like where would
(17:55):
you ever even see that right inthe real world?
but he said I have to test forit because I might have to do it
once a year.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
But that once a year they need to have that person.
Yeah, they want you trained andable to go in at any time,
because they're not you knowthey're not screwing around-
yeah, no, no, it's millions ofdollars a second or whatever.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
It's a crazy thing.
Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
One of the hired ones they do here.
It's an F4 on two-inch SCED 80.
Oh yeah, 70-18 open route.
I hate 70-18 open route, Right,but that's a nuclear code Like
I mean you can it through that.
That's a bend test.
You make it through that andyou're doing the same coupon
with 309 stick.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Yeah, it's like trying to pull, trying to hold
water in a colander.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
That's right, the two real fun ones.
And then it's you know, it'slike it's a little easier than
you do some three, eight tubesand stuff like that, and but
they really test you and I lovedoing it.
It was it really challenged youand it tested you to your limit
.
And then some right.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
I remember when I was working with my skills
competitor, before we went toRussia, we got a sample drawing
from the world skills and therewas an open route 70-18 on
three-eighths plate, uh, with aone-eighth gap, and uh, and it
was the first time we had everseen that on a on a skills
(19:20):
drawing.
And it's because and it dependson the country you do the
worlds in but russia's sonuclear heavy, right, they got
hundreds of nuclear plants inrussia that their nuclear welds
had made it into their skillsdrawing, which I think is great,
like I mean, that's part of theindustry but, I remember
sitting with hundreds of nuclearplants in Russia that their
nuclear welds had made it intotheir skills drawing, which I
(19:41):
think is great, like I mean,that's part of the industry.
But I remember sitting with ourcompetitor, me and the other
instructor, steve, and we'relike have you ever done an open
route 718?
I was like no, have you no?
So before we even told thestudent about it, we went to the
shop, we stayed after work andwe were trying to do it.
Be like, well, let's figure itout so we don't look like idiots
when we try to tell this kid todo it.
Man, it took a few rips, likeyeah that's.
That's not an easy one.
I don't even like it was, evenwhen it felt like it looked good
(20:03):
it'd be some ugly.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
You chip the slag off and there's nothing there.
Yeah, that one.
No, that one too, especiallywhen we do it on the two inch
SCAD 80, there's no materialthere, you're.
You can only go an inch, and assoon as that keyhole opens,
you're done.
You're too late, yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
You got a big creep.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
Yeah, If it's running and running good, stop because
it's about to go bad.
That's you gotta, that's yourlimit.
You gotta stop yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Stop while it's good, yeah, oh, yeah.
Well, let's take a quick breakhere for our sponsors and then
when we get back, I'd like totalk about you.
Know how you guys support theskills journey here in in in new
Brunswick for your students andwith the competition, how's
that sound?
All right, we'll be right backhere with Evan Ross on the CWB
Association podcast.
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And we are back on the CWBAssociation podcast.
I'm here in St John, newBrunswick, with Evan Ross from
(22:27):
UA213.
All right, right before thebreak, we're talking about you
know well impossible welds,which are not fun.
Like what is it trying to makewater stick on a wall?
It's not fun.
But these are some of thethings that are going to be
coming down in the future.
A lot of it.
We're trying to get over itwith technology right.
So, like when we say nocellulose roots, this is
(22:48):
something that might be a littlebit hard to swallow Out here in
eastern Canada.
I actually feel you guys are alittle bit ahead of the rest of
the country in terms of tryingto reduce the amount of
cellulose.
Stt RMD, like these modifiedwaveform welding machines,
aren't such a dirty word outhere.
How do you feel about those inyour hall?
Speaker 3 (23:07):
I mean they aren't, but they're not as common.
You know you see them in thefab shops here.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
But we don't use them in the field ever they come
from our fab shops.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
They like to use it.
You know it's.
I like them both.
You know sgt rmd.
I find that they're a greattechnology getting them set up
and can be, you know, kind of apain sometimes but, once you
have everything set, it's, itmakes it a breeze right.
It's quick and easy right cleanyeah, you're banging out joints
(23:39):
in no time.
Yeah, the guy in the next boothbesides just doing it all, tig
still and you're flying them offyeah, there's not even a
comparison, really yeah but wedon't have as much fab shop.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Yeah.
Work here In-house piping work,yeah Right.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
You know, you see that more Ontario, quebec we
just don't have.
A lot of our work ismaintenance and you know actual
installation.
On-site work.
So we still do see a lot of theolder style.
You know the refiner hereespecially, it's all.
They're just starting to moveto 6010.
It was 6011 for years and youknow, you see that now that's an
(24:22):
old farm rod.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
What are you doing with that?
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Oh, that's what we use.
That's that's all we got.
That's what we learned on NewBrunswick especially.
We have our our qualifiedticket F3, f4 qualified.
You need that in order to getany more specialty tickets.
Right Before it was the F3 orF4, it was just an F4.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Right.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
So a lot of the older guys here, you know that's
that's what they, that's howthey grew up on was 70, 18 open
route.
So yeah.
You see, a lot of welderstravel from St John or New
Brunswick alone.
East Coast travel out and theythey shine a lot because we put
out some really good weldershere.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
That's a tough one yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
We do a lot of different stuff.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
You don't see, we might be stuck in the old ways
some sometimes, well, I don'tknow, like out West we're pretty
old school and it frustrates mebecause it's still it's 60, 10
everywhere, like it's 60, 10everywhere and it's, I try to
tell you know my businesscolleagues, people, I work with
industry in general, especiallynow with my job at CWB.
(25:25):
I see lots of what's happeningin the world and I'm just, like
you know, cautionary tale.
We got to start start gettingaway from the 60-10 because it
ain't going to be here much in10 years, because
metallurgically it's not great,right, and maybe it was good
enough for oil, maybe it wasgood enough for tanks, but once
we get to hydrogen, no way isthat going to be?
(25:48):
anywhere on the radar.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
No, you know you got to start evolving.
Take it to the future, right?
Yeah, you know, especially TIG,tig roots you can do now it's.
There's no comparison withanything.
You know you're not getting anycontamination inside the joint,
you know there's no slag ornothing that's getting in there
and you know it's going down theline once it's running and it's
faster now because you gotgreat new orbital setups.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
You got hot feed wire setups.
A tip-tig.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
That's a really good one.
I'd love to see that.
Have you played with one?
I've played with it, but we'retrying to get some contractors
here, but they don't seem towant to bite.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
I got a buddy who can help you.
Have you met?
Speaker 3 (26:30):
Juvie no, but they're a fun machine yeah, they are.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Yeah, now for, for you guys here with skills, what
are you training them for?
Because a lot of what they'redoing here they're going to be
these are mainly structuralwelds.
On most of these things there'sone pressure vessel, but 90 of
the welds are going to be doingare structural aluminum,
structural stainless structuralcarbon with one carbon pressure.
You know, do you have to stepoutside of your normal box to
(26:56):
train that?
I mean, we do.
Speaker 3 (26:58):
But then again, you know we're doing, we still do
some structural stuff.
You know we do pipe shoes andhangers and all that kind of
stuff.
We get apprentices coming innow that you know they kind of
complain.
I just, I want to be a TIGwelder, I want to.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
I want to do the nice , pretty stuff.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
It's like, well, you got to do the dirty stuff too.
You know you got to be able todo everything.
You're going to crawl inunderneath there and weld shoes
and stuff like that.
You know you still have to be.
Just because we're the pipefitters, you know you have to be
able to do a little bit ofeverything, right.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
Yeah, and you're more valuable.
Right, you're more valuable ifyou can do it all.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
Yeah, you walk into a job saying you know, I'm just
no, I'm just here for forTegwald, and you're not going to
be sitting there very long.
You're out there, you knowsomeone throws something at you
and you're you're not scared,you jump in and do it.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:48):
That's going to keep you working.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
And even going to the other side of not scared,
confident, right, you're like ohyeah, I can do that.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
Yeah, you don't even think about it.
That's right, your hand goes up.
Hey, who wants to do that?
I'll do it.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
You know I'll get in there.
You know, right Now I know thatI was just talking to some
students outside and they'relike, oh, you're with CWB.
We heard about your welding.
I was like, yeah, yeah, youknow.
And they're like, well, wedon't need any welding tickets
as millwrights.
And I was like, well, you know,a millwright with a couple CWBs
(28:19):
goes a long way.
Yeah, right Because like yousaid, you got to be available to
work and in this world thatmeans certs Right Right mean
certs right right, same with youknow we're talking f3, f4 is f6
, f5.
We're talking p44, we'retalking about these things.
Those are all certs right, notjust numbers we make out of the
air, right they're.
(28:40):
They give you the ability to domore work that's right.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
you know, especially around here, the better welders
are the ones that if thecontractor comes in and says you
know, we've got this job comingup, we've got to train some
people on you know some titaniumor duplex or anything like that
, if you're, you know secondguessing it, if you even look
like you're going to secondguess it, they're going to go to
(29:05):
the next person.
They're not going to waste thetime and money to get you
trained and risk screwing upsomething on the job.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
I mean titanium's crazy expensive.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
Oh it's insane, it's insane.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
Well, even stainless has gotten so expensive now.
Speaker 3 (29:19):
Oh yeah, Like I mean Everything now you get a box of
filler on your like.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Your mouth hurts.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
Oh yeah.
Well, we had to order two of atitanium filler a couple of
weeks ago.
It was a thousand dollars.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
Yeah, and there's nine rods.
It's not that bad, but it'spretty close.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
Might as well be.
Yeah.
And then we had a student thatI beveled up with a whole bunch
of coupons and had him in acabinet and he went and grabbed
one thinking it was stainlesscoupon, it was titanium and he
couldn't figure out what wasgoing on.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
Why it wasn't welding right, why isn't it?
Speaker 1 (29:49):
melting into it what was going on.
Why it wasn't welding right.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
Why isn't it melting into it?
Should I be cleaning thisdifferent?
Well, you could start with theright coupon, so you just
wrecked about $600.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Now a lot of people don't understand how to get into
unions.
You know, is it as easy as justwalking in the front door of
your local hall and saying Iwant to get a job?
Because I remember when it usedto be tricky, like very tricky,
and my dad was a Boilermaker, Icould never get in the
Boilermakers, even with my dadsigning, because it was there
(30:20):
had to be the right time, therehad to be work, they have to
watch the members.
And I remember getting reallyfrustrated because I was welding
for a long time and my dadwould be like, come and join the
Boilermakers and you know hewas a member.
But they were like, no, we'renot taking any new hires, Right,
but I feel like that was 30years ago.
Maybe things are different now.
Speaker 3 (30:35):
Times are changing now.
You know we've got a lot ofmembers that are retiring
(30:56):
no-transcript.
You know we pass out cards andthings like that, and especially
when it comes time to workterms and stuff like you know,
co-op programs in high school.
We take as many as we can toensure that you know they're
getting, they're get the rightimpression, that you know this
is a good spot.
This is, this is what we offer.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
That's really interesting.
You bring that up because I'veactually been in other provinces
.
Fact that I've had a hall saythat we don't take co-op
students because of liabilityissues and stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
Right, no, I.
I was in co-op program when Icame through and I went to one
of the.
I got in at one of the fabshops here in town, one of the
Indian pipe fitter shops, and itwas hard to get in then.
You know, you really had toknow somebody, but my father and
(31:47):
my uncle and my grandfather areall in the industry.
I had a little bit of a helpinghand to get in to get a co-op
placement, but but being in theshop I wasn't allowed to touch
anything that they were touching, you know.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
I wasn't a.
I wasn't a union member, so Iwasn't, I couldn't but I You're
not laying any real welds onanything, no, but.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
I was right there, standing over their shoulders,
watching and learning everysingle thing I could.
And, you know, for that 13weeks or whatever it was, I was
there.
Yeah, I learned everything Icould.
I came out of that.
I was 16 years old.
I came out of that with my F3plate pressure ticket.
Yeah, and they really helped mealong and pushed me to keep
(32:21):
going with it.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
Keep going, yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
Yeah, no, they were very helpful.
And you know now our hall alonewe take anywhere from, you know
, five to 10 pipe fitters,welders, any, any students
looking for a placement.
We try and take everybody wecan to really get them
interested and show them, teachthem what we can, to try and
hang on to them.
(32:43):
You know, because we want thatfuture generation coming to us.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
If, if there's someone listening to this
podcast and they're in the areayou know they're out here in the
East Coast and they'reinterested about joining a hall.
What's the easiest way to dothat?
How do how do you get in?
Speaker 3 (32:59):
Show up with a resume at the at the door, drop your
resume off.
We come in at our hall here.
We, if you're a welder, we'llcome in.
We'll do an assessment on you.
You know, if, if not right thatminute, the next day To show up
with boots and a helmet.
Show up ready to work and youknow if there's a spot and
there's, that could be yourchance to get in right away.
(33:20):
You know there's.
There's lots of work coming up,lots of work ongoing right now,
especially, you know, anyonewith a red seal and status.
We're always looking.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
Times are different now than they were 20, 30 years
ago.
I remember going to work onpermits back in the day.
I don't know if they still havepermits anymore, but I'd go
work on permits.
I had my Red Seal in weldingbut I wasn't in the hall but
they were so short up that theywould just put out a call out
for Red Seal welders.
Speaker 3 (33:47):
Right.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
And so I would just go work in, permit I Right, and
so I would just go work apermanent.
I'm not a paying member, soyou're not same tier right.
Right, kind of like last in,first out.
But you know, for a shutdown Ididn't mind.
But I remember it was trickyback then, like I'd have a red
seal and some job sites would belike, okay, well, you're a red
seal welder, but you're not ared seal pipe fitter, so you
only get a second year rate orthird year rate.
(34:09):
I'd negotiate that out, right,Does that stuff still kind of
work that?
Speaker 3 (34:12):
way Not, not in our, in our province.
We know we we have a list forevery separate trade.
You don't you don't have to bedual ticketed or anything like
that.
But I know especially weldersright now.
We, you need them, we, we needwelders, we need people taking
welding, you know, but we wantwe want the best yeah.
We, we don't want bucketwelders, but we want we want
(34:36):
them to be good.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
Yeah, I welded buckets for a while.
What's wrong with bucketwelding?
So did I.
Speaker 3 (34:39):
It's a good, it's a good spot to start.
Yeah no-transcript the firsttime, and that's what we want
for for the future and what'sfor your future?
Speaker 1 (35:01):
You know, what do you see for yourself?
You just stepped into this newrole.
I'm sure this is still a bit ofa learning curve.
Speaker 3 (35:06):
It is.
It's a change for sure.
You know I'm used to.
You're off the tools now, I'moff the tools, but I'd still,
you know I I like getting rightin the booths with the with
anyone there.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
You have to, you know .
Speaker 3 (35:17):
You know I I really enjoy it.
I, you know I have the passionfor it.
I've always enjoyed, you know.
You know things change butwe'll see.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
We'll see how the future Climbing a big ladder.
The UA's got a long ladder, ohit does.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
Yeah, you know, I'm at the bottom right now.
We'll see.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
And if you had the opportunity to work out the
province or leave the province?
It sounds like you really loveit out here.
Speaker 3 (35:49):
I love it here.
You know all my family's here.
I'm lucky that I get to be homeevery night and you know, if I
needed to, I would obviously.
But no, I haven't had to.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
You're not looking for it.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
I haven't had to.
I've worked, I've had a steadyjob the whole time I've been in
the UA.
Mm-hmm, okay, you know it'sbeen been.
Some people say that it's notalways like that, but from what
I've seen, it is yeah, there'slots of work.
You have a couple weeks offhere and there, but it's it
could.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
It's needed a lot it's interesting because I've
had, you know, some people.
It's all perspective.
I've had some people say thatto me.
Like well, welding, you knowhow do you deal with layoffs or
how do you deal with this andthat, and it's like you know.
I have been laid off a fewtimes in my life.
It's part of the industry, butI, you know, one time I got laid
off I chose to take, you know,the summer off because it was
(36:42):
like you know get laid off inMay, it's kind of perfect timing
for some camping right.
Speaker 3 (36:47):
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
But then, on the other hand, is if I really
wanted to get back to work thenext day.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
I could have Right.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
Right, I could have.
I could have gone out there andhounded and banged some doors
and done it because,realistically, I've never been
unemployed by choice.
Speaker 3 (37:01):
You know what?
Speaker 1 (37:02):
I mean, it's always been opportunities around.
Speaker 3 (37:05):
Yeah, you want to take a little break?
Yeah, it's the same thing.
Now you know.
If you want to work, you'regoing to be work.
Yeah, If it's not here, if weare a little slow here, there's
all kinds of opportunities inOntario.
Get them at.
There's been a lot of ourmembers out there the last few
years, you know, and they would.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
They're taking everybody.
Speaker 3 (37:25):
Oh yeah, and they'd love to go back too, that's you
know it seems to be a prettygood spot.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
Yeah, big too, that's you know, it seems to be a
pretty good spot.
yeah, big project big money yeah, big money, big project great
scenery yeah, I've seen some ofthe the travel cards co-op for
that poof.
I've seen a stainless uh 22 forlike duplex welding like 100
just under 100 bucks an houryeah oh yeah, if to be young,
again to be young, I would havebeen all over that, oh, exactly.
(37:50):
I'm too old for cap life now,though.
All right, so for the rest ofthe week here, are you going to
be doing any judging, or justhere supporting your competitors
?
Speaker 3 (38:01):
I'm just here supporting this week.
You know, I competed back in mytime.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
Did you?
Yeah, how'd you do?
Speaker 3 (38:08):
Skills Canada.
I did the nationals and I gotthird place at that, and you
Skills Canada.
I did the nationals and I gotthird place at that.
And then I went on to do the UA.
We have our own skillscompetition.
I won the nationals for thatand I went and represented
Canada.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
In the US.
Speaker 3 (38:20):
In the US and Ann Arbor, michigan.
And how'd you do there?
They don't tell you what thewhat the score the final scores
are.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
I didn't win, you just weren't first.
Speaker 3 (38:27):
No, you just weren't first.
No, I wasn't first, but you did.
All right, I did.
I think I held my own.
You know, it was a lot.
Yeah, that was a bigcompetition.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
I've been invited to the UA competition in the US a
couple times and I've never gone.
I really should put it on mycalendar to go and check it out.
Speaker 3 (38:49):
It's a sight to see they really put you to the test
on everything you know down.
It states a lot Our membersdown there you know there's not
a lot of standalone welders.
They're all, they're allpipefitters with welding tickets
.
Yeah, so you were.
You were doing the whole thingfrom scratch yourself.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
You know you're cutting, Cutting and beveling
with a torch and doing tubingand like oh there's a whole
copper project, black steel,everything, oh everything.
Speaker 3 (39:14):
You know.
Cutting laterals, you know itwas, but it was a great
experience.
You know.
I encourage anybody to at leasttry.
You know, try at yourprovincial level.
It's a great experience.
You get to meet a lot of people, you know.
You challenge yourself and younever know you could.
You'd go to the next surpriseyourself, right, you know when I
first went.
I I went when I was a firstyear apprentice, you know.
(39:38):
I came in third at theprovincial level and I said, you
know, I'm getting it next year,you know I put the work in.
I was working night shift andI'd go.
I'd leave the refinery nightshift and drive right down to
the hall and wait for the doorto open, go in and practice for
a few hours and then go home andsleep for a few hours.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:57):
I wanted to win that one.
That was it's.
It's really fun.
I I encouraged everybody to totry it.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
Yeah, I was talking to the kids this morning Well, I
shouldn't say kids or adults,but you know talking to the
students about this experienceand you know I got to mentor a
welder and we got to go toRussia for world skills.
He got ninth in the world andhe won nationals twice here in
Canada, adam Sebastian.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
Yeah, I met him when I was.
He was walking around when Idid the nationals.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
Yeah, so I was his mentor.
I was his teacher well, me andSteve.
I was his mentor.
I was his teacher Well, me andSteve.
And once he got pastprovincials and kind of realized
what it would take to get tonationals, it was a whole nother
game.
It was like well we actuallyknocked on every door in the
country and got money for him sothat he could take a year off
(40:47):
or eight months off.
So all he was doing 10 hours aday.
Speaker 3 (40:50):
You're dedicated, that's it.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
Right, that's the only way you can compete in
nationals.
There's no like.
I mean it's good to just put inthe extra time after work and
stuff, but when you get to thatinternational level, they aren't
working.
Speaker 3 (41:02):
That's a whole nother world.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
It's a whole nother game, and I do at this point.
Everyone should just compete.
I actually brought that up.
Why doesn't everyone justcompete?
Maybe you don't even want to,but just do it.
You might surprise yourself andif you don't do, well, so what
you try.
But at least it was anexperience to see what it was
about.
Right, I get that there's timelimitations and money and
funding, blah, blah, blah, but Ifeel like it's just such a
(41:31):
great experience for anyone totry On the other side of the
fence.
If you're an instructor or aseasoned, older welder or you're
just in the industry, youshould attend these things.
You should come in and see whatthe kids are doing.
You should see the competition.
Speaker 3 (41:46):
And what?
Speaker 1 (41:46):
they're putting themselves through.
You should see what they'reputting themselves through for
really just themselves, causethere's no cash on the table or
no, there's no guaranteed jobson the table.
Speaker 3 (41:56):
Bragging rights, really, that's right.
That's all it is.
Speaker 1 (41:59):
Right, but, like I mean, you know these kids and
that's why I said to them thismorning I'm like everyone that's
in this room is guaranteed agreat job Cause if you already
stuck your neck out this far forjust bragging rights, you're
going to do just fine in thisindustry.
Speaker 3 (42:13):
Right.
You're showing that dedicationand the pride that you have in
that and you know employers seethat.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
They do, they do and you're going to all get cherry
picked.
You know, the one question cameup and it was like you know,
make sure you put this on yourresume.
And it's like, oh, what if wedon't win?
That don't matter.
Speaker 3 (42:29):
Oh, you still try.
You just put it on your resume.
That matters, that's a bigthing.
You still participated in itand put yourself out there.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
Well, this has been a great interview, man.
This has been fantastic and Ihope everyone learned a little
bit about the UA today andwhat's going on out here in the
East Coast.
Any last minute instructionsfor anyone if they want to join
the hall or how do they reachout to get information?
Speaker 3 (42:50):
Just, reach out.
We have the websites, uaorg, orjust show up at the hall.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
Yeah, it is actually that easy it is.
I have just walked into a halland gone.
Speaker 3 (43:03):
You walk in, you know doors are open.
Speaker 1 (43:05):
Yeah, Awesome man.
Well, thanks a lot and I reallyappreciate what you're doing
here and what the hall's doingfor the kids.
Speaker 3 (43:13):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
Awesome and for all the people that have been
following along, there's anothergreat interview here with the
UA, who are great supporters outhere.
It's been a fantastic day ofpodcasts and of seeing the
competitions go down.
Tomorrow's another whole daywith high school students, which
then you get to see the realfear in their eyes.
But we'll be here for them andI really, really appreciate it
and you taking the time.
(43:34):
Thank you, all right, catch youat the next episode.
We hope you enjoyed the show.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
Do you own a company in the welding industry or want
to share a targeted message withour listeners?
Then this 45 second audio adspace could be yours.
We have the coolest listenersfrom all over the world, with
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(44:11):
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, including the CWB GroupNetwork.
If you are interested, reachout to info at cwbassociationorg
.
Look at that.
I just gave you all of thatinformation in only 45 seconds.
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Please subscribe or visit us atcwbassociationorg to learn more
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All right, I can check.
Check, I'm good.
So I'm Max Duran.
Max Duran, cwb AssociationWelding Podcast, pod pod podcast
.
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Happy welding.
Hello and welcome to anotheredition of the CWB Association
podcast.
My name is Max Saron and I amhere in St John, new Brunswick
(01:09):
for Atlantic Skills Canadacompetitions.
One of the great sponsors andsupporters and hirers out here
in the East Coast and for thiswonderful event is the UA213
Hall, and today I have Evan Ross, who is a welding instructor
for the hall.
How are you doing, evan?
I'm good.
How are you?
I'm good.
So what brings you to NBCCtoday?
(01:30):
Oh well, we've got.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
We've got four computers doing welding and
seven in the pipe fitting.
I'm just coming out to show oursupport.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
You're just running the hall, you're just running
the show out here.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Yeah, that's right just showing wearing the logo
and trying to get some recruits,maybe.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
So what is it that you do specifically at the hall?
Speaker 3 (01:50):
I'm one of the welding instructors.
I also do getting into thesafety.
So fall protection, confinedspace, that kind of thing
Anything that our members needto get out on the job.
Make sure that they have allthe all the proper training so
they can go right to work.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Now out here I've been hearing lots about the UA.
You know, kind of from allcorners and across Canada, you
know the unions have differentroles in terms of, and even
within the UA they havedifferent roles in terms of the
industries they support, the jobsites they're on your hall
seems quite strong in this area.
So what are some of the jobmarkets in this area that your
(02:28):
your hall, would support?
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Well, you know, st John especially, is a very
industrial city.
You know, we've got right rightout the window here we've got
one of the largest one of thelargest refineries in North
America and we've got a nuclearpower plants, a couple different
power plants, alt coupledifferent power plants.
Pulp mill paper mills.
And then you go farther downthe coast you get some.
(02:50):
There's some fish plants andstuff like that.
There's a lot of industry in afairly small area, so it's a lot
of heavy industry.
So, that's where our tradesreally are needed.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Yeah, it's one of the topics.
I, you know, just came frominterviewing Adam and he brought
that up too.
You know the amount of heavyindustry and industry in general
for a small area.
Small population kind of putsyou in a difficult spot, Right.
I've always looked at how manycolleges there is out here for
(03:24):
the trades.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
And how many trades programs there is in the East
Coast and there's a lot for theamount of people.
There's a lot Right.
And coming from the West,because I'm a Westerner, I
didn't know that.
I thought that you know allthese West, all these East
Coasters come to the West towork because there's no work,
but what I've learned is thatthere's plenty of work here.
It's starting to turn around.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Yeah.
And it's, it's changed quite abit.
Yeah, and all we've our, ourjurisdiction alone.
We've got a lot of work.
There's a lot of major projectscoming up.
You know there's a a boilerexpansion at the the West side.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
I heard about that.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
All the paper here.
Mel, I heard about that.
There's like a 1.7 million manhours for the pipe fitter Like
it's a lot of work coming up inthe next few years and we need
more young people getting intothe industry and taking trades.
And because we've got a lot ofmembers retiring as well, the
ratio of new people coming in topeople going out is starting to
(04:24):
get unbalanced pretty quick.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
The lists are getting thin at the top with all the
old guys my dad.
He was a boiler maker for 50years.
He retired early, he got sick,he got cancer but he had to
retire early.
But he got calls for like thenext 10 years being like are you
sure you don't want to come?
Speaker 2 (04:46):
out.
Are you sure you don't want tocome out?
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Because it's just can't find people, just not
enough.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
See, when I first got in I've been a member since
2017 and I was working out ofanother fab shop before that,
right out of school, and thatwas one of the things they told
me when I, when I said I wasleaving and joining the UA they
said you know, you're going tobe.
You're only going to work ashutdown here and there.
You'll be on unemployment andtraveling out west.
I've worked steady the entiretime, my entire career.
(05:14):
I haven't had any low points.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Yeah, have never been unemployed.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
No, it's.
Time's changed a lot in thelast few years, so there's a
there's a big influx in workright now.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Yeah, the, you know, there's the old, uh, the pokey
trains back in the day.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Yeah.
Doesn't seem to be a thinganymore.
It's pretty well by choice now.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
If you're going to.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
If you're going to take time off, it's because you
want to.
Yeah.
You know, if you want to work,if there's work out there.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
So, for the people that are listening to the
podcast and are not aware, wehave a lot of listeners in the
US as well, where unions are notnearly as strong as here in
Canada.
You know what is it the UA does, what are all the parts of the
UA?
Because it's not just welding,welding is one piece of the many
roles that the UA covers.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
Right.
So we're all the pipe tradespipe fitter, steam fitter,
plumbers and we've had sprinklerfitters, hvac, gas techs,
instrumentation, anything to dowith pipe.
We deal with it.
It's our jurisdiction.
So that's a big part of a lotof the heavy industry,
especially in even commercial.
(06:22):
You know you get into thebigger cities in Toronto,
edmonton, stuff like that.
You know they have a wholenother jurisdiction for high
rise and you know the sprinklerand sprinkler systems and
plumbing systems that kind ofstuff.
It's a huge industry.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Yeah, Now how do you stay on top of the training for
all those different legs of that?
Speaker 3 (06:44):
It's a challenge but you know we've got.
The good part about it is thatwe get.
We take our trainers from thejob.
You know I I just took thisposition in the new year so I've
only been doing it a littlewhile I came right off the job.
I've been you know, I've been awelder since 10 years.
We really take the on the jobtraining aspect and put it into
(07:07):
our into our apprenticeship.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Yeah, right.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
And we, we have mock-ups at our, our hall.
It's, it's a real life scenario, for you know, for pipe racks
and pump stations and thingslike that.
You know, we want them to seewhat they're going to actually
experience when they get out onthe job, and so there's no, just
you can't learn.
Want them to see what they'regoing to actually experience
when they get out on the job,and so you can't learn
(07:30):
everything from a book in theclassroom.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
We'd like to see hands-on training and, for the
welders specifically, thewelding world that you teach in
and when people look at pipefitters in terms of welders, you
know what are some of thethings that you would be
typically doing.
What are the types of weldsthat a pipe welder in the hall
would be doing, say, on theday-to-day?
Speaker 3 (07:56):
Day-to-day it's.
You know our bread and butterwould be like a.
In New Brunswick it's called F3, f4.
So 6011, 6010 route, 7018, filland cap.
Most of it's done on a two-inchdouble X pipe.
Coupon sent out for x-ray.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
So double X would be like a SCED 80 or a SCED 160?
.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
A little.
It's heavier than a 160.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
the next step up, Okay 240, I think, is what it is
and uh, you know we.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
there's a lot of different alloys around here,
like right now.
Another popular one for uh, forthe pulp mills especially, is
duplex.
Right you know we use 2205,2209.
That's a that's a reallypopular one right now.
We've got a same spot.
We've got some titanium thatthey do there, you know they're.
They're sending a few, a few ofthe better guys over that, you
(08:41):
know, over.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
And those aren't common.
No Things to do, I mean duplexis getting pretty common now.
Yeah Right.
For for the people who don'tknow what duplex is, it's a
variation of stainless RightRight.
So Magnetic.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
You know it's got a lot of a lot of same properties,
a lot of high carbon.
You've got to.
You can't like a 309 or 316stainless.
You got to.
You got to treat it waydifferent because it.
You got to watch thosetemperatures, you know it might
look, it might turn out lookingbeautiful, but then they x-ray
(09:12):
it and it's, it's garbage on theinside.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
Unless you know unless you someone tells you
that that you got to weld itdifferently too.
You wouldn't know, because youcan do it you differently too.
You wouldn't know because youcan do it, you can.
You know, you can crank yourheat up and just wash over it
and make it look really pretty,yeah, but you're not getting any
penetration it'll be a sugarcube on the inside and lack of
penetration.
All through it oh, it's duplex,especially you gotta, you
(09:36):
really gotta dip it yeah doingtag.
You lay wire, you know.
You just lay the filler on andwash over with the dig torch.
It doesn't work.
It's not going to work.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Well, and the inner inner, inner pass temperatures
are so critical when it comes tothe duplexes, especially the
2209, because it'll separate out.
You know it'll separate out andthat's a full cutout Like it's
not a.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
There ain't no repair on that.
No, you're not just going in,you know, just cutting into a
little spot and fixing it.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
No, you're not just grinding that out and tapping it
in.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
No, it's all starting fresh.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
Same with Inconel.
We've got, we've had a few morepeople, the P44s.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
Being sent for.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
Inconel right?
You know we had a.
We watched a YouTube video thenight before and.
I said you know you're thinkingit'll crack like.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
A cast.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
Almost Right, it'll just split, it welds really nice
.
You know it's a little dirty,but you think it's the same
thing.
It looks like it's going reallygood, and then you just you
start your hot pass and it youhear that ting and you know it's
all over.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
So, as a trainer, how do you keep your skills up on
the new stuff you know?
Because you you never knoweverything right, like I mean, I
welded in the stainless world.
I was a stainless guy.
That was what.
That was my bread and butter.
I worked in the mining industry.
Never enough work for stainlesswelders, or never too much work
.
Is that right?
Speaker 2 (11:07):
no, there was always lots of work yeah, for stainless
welders in the mines.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
But you know, if someone came up to me and said,
oh, you're a great stainlesswelder, here I have some
titanium for you to weld it's,and uh what?
Speaker 3 (11:18):
you know, right, it's .
No, I, I like to.
You know there's a lot ofinformation out there online.
I watch all kinds of videos.
You know you get the youngergenerations coming in saying, oh
, I saw this on TikTok lastnight or whatever.
Well, you know you gotta becareful with it's not always
true.
But you know there's definitelysome good information.
I pay attention to that and Iread up on a lot of the newer
(11:40):
technologies and stuff like thatand I, I like to.
I'm young.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
I still like to weld.
I like getting in the booth andtrying out different things
trying out new stuff.
That's usually really what itcomes down to is you got to try
it, you got to?
Speaker 3 (11:52):
keep at it too.
You can't just you know.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Just wing it Right.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
It's, you know, it's kind of really know all the ins
and outs.
You gotta, you gotta stay at it.
You gotta continue to keep upyour skills.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Yeah, I remember I used to work with this welder.
He was an old biker guy and, uh, one of the kids was in in
class learning and he said well,I learned welding from my uncle
.
You know, you get those kids.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
Oh, yeah, yeah, and you know those are the worst
ones because, you're gonna haveto unteach everything.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Uncle bob said, or whatever you know, and he's like
well, my uncle said it's likeriding a bike and uh, and this
guy says well, you can ride yourdirt bike all day, but I'm not
letting you on my harley right,exactly I was like, yeah, that's
a good way of putting thatbecause it can be sort of the
same, but it ain't right.
Right, so you know.
So you know, for the UA youguys have a very extensive
(12:47):
training program, it's you know,I know it's something that
you're very proud of.
I've been friends with RayLemieux.
He just retired, but I've beenfriends with Ray for like
20-some years.
He's a great guy and you knowthe wealth of information that
comes from the pipe trades is.
It filters down into the othertrades, into all of them right.
Right and I think it happensbetween all of them.
You've got the ironworkers, theboilermakers, the millwrights.
(13:08):
Everyone's kind of got theirniche, that they work in, that
they specialize in.
But when it comes to pressurevessels and piping it's going to
be a lot of pipe fitter work.
When I look at the type ofaccreditation and testing that
the UA has to go through formost of their jobs, it's usually
another step above what lots ofother places have to go through
(13:30):
.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
Yeah, we really work to a high standard.
We have a standard forexcellence that we adhere to and
it's very important to us.
We spend a lot of money ontraining.
It's a deduction Every memberpays into a training fund.
They want to use it, they wantto see it go in action.
They want to see how it go asfar as it can right.
(13:52):
You know it's their livelihood,they want to, they want to get
the most out of it and you knowwe get a lot of people that are
very proud to proud to be uamembers and proud to participate
in the training.
Oh, we've got people coming instopping down on their days off
just walking through the shop,just seeing if they can help out
.
Like you know, you get it's a.
It's a real community thatwants to see each other succeed.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Yeah, and that's something that's, I guess, when
you look at kind of the declineof the unions, because there has
been kind of the thought thatthe unions are in decline, not
just in Canada, like around theworld.
There's been kind of a desireto get away from standards and
codes, to get away from so muchtesting and rigorous, because
(14:39):
they say it slows down the job,makes the jobs too expensive.
Stuff like that I don't buy it.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
No, I don't buy it and I don't see it here either.
Especially, you know NBCC.
Here you see all of their topstudents are trying to get a
place with us.
You know they want, they wantto go and do the best they can
in their career and they'recoming knocking on our doors.
(15:05):
You know it's they're notlooking to go to somewhere that
they're not going to be testedand be you know, live up to a
certain codes and standards and,you know, really push yourself
to your limits.
And that's what I really likeabout the skills competitions is
it shows what your limits areand you got to really get pushed
through that and see how faryou can go.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
And so my favorite time of year- yeah Well,
competition breeds excellence,right and uh, competition breeds
excellence right.
And that's something I thinkthat welders in general take
heed to, because we get toldthat in every welding program,
regardless of where you are inCanada, regardless of the hall
you're in what type of union, atthe end of the day, welding is
(15:49):
not something you can skipthrough.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
No.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Right, you're not just skipping through this
program.
You're not just going to fakeyour way into a welding job and
think you're going to have acareer.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
That's right, you really got to show your skill.
You've got to put the time in,put in the effort.
You just try and skip throughit.
You're not going to make itvery far.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
You're not very well there.
No, yeah, yeah, it's just notgoing to work for you.
The cooking school down thehall, that's right.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
It's not for you.
You don't want to put the timein, put the effort in.
You picked the wrong, wrongtrade.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
So before your job as a trainer you know you said you
just started in January whatwas it that you were doing with
the hall you were on as a welder, or as a.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
I'm a welder, yeah, I , you know I have.
I was always trying to getinvolved and you know, volunteer
and different committees andstuff like that.
But but the last nine years Iguess, I've been working various
sites in the in the city.
I never I've been lucky Ihaven't had to travel.
You know there's been work herethat I can do the last three
years.
I was uh, I was on themaintenance crew with Point of
(16:52):
Pearl, the nuclear power planthere.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Okay, yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
And the and the sense of the industry around here.
That would be the.
That's, that's your top.
That's about as good as it getsQualifications there.
You know we do 14 job tests justto get down there, right?
You know they test you on everypossible thing that you might
run into down there and theywant to see that you can do
every bit of it with no issues.
Right, they really put you tothe test.
(17:19):
And the same when you're inthere doing the job, they
there's work somewhere else andthere might be one guy come and
check on it.
There's 10 coming and lookingat it there yeah.
They really make sure that it'sflawless.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Well, I met, uh, eric dickerson from opg.
He's a tig welder for them.
I don't know if you ever heardof him or met him, but he's one
of the better welders in canada.
Like the guy's an incredibleguy, I would put him at late 30s
now, um and he was showing mesome of the job tests that he
has to do just to stay on at thepower plant you know like a one
inch thick titanium full ofwelds and it's like where would
(17:55):
you ever even see that right inthe real world?
but he said I have to test forit because I might have to do it
once a year.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
But that once a year they need to have that person.
Yeah, they want you trained andable to go in at any time,
because they're not you knowthey're not screwing around-
yeah, no, no, it's millions ofdollars a second or whatever.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
It's a crazy thing.
Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
One of the hired ones they do here.
It's an F4 on two-inch SCED 80.
Oh yeah, 70-18 open route.
I hate 70-18 open route, Right,but that's a nuclear code Like
I mean you can it through that.
That's a bend test.
You make it through that andyou're doing the same coupon
with 309 stick.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Yeah, it's like trying to pull, trying to hold
water in a colander.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
That's right, the two real fun ones.
And then it's you know, it'slike it's a little easier than
you do some three, eight tubesand stuff like that, and but
they really test you and I lovedoing it.
It was it really challenged youand it tested you to your limit
.
And then some right.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
I remember when I was working with my skills
competitor, before we went toRussia, we got a sample drawing
from the world skills and therewas an open route 70-18 on
three-eighths plate, uh, with aone-eighth gap, and uh, and it
was the first time we had everseen that on a on a skills
(19:20):
drawing.
And it's because and it dependson the country you do the
worlds in but russia's sonuclear heavy, right, they got
hundreds of nuclear plants inrussia that their nuclear welds
had made it into their skillsdrawing, which I think is great,
like I mean, that's part of theindustry but, I remember
sitting with hundreds of nuclearplants in Russia that their
nuclear welds had made it intotheir skills drawing, which I
(19:41):
think is great, like I mean,that's part of the industry.
But I remember sitting with ourcompetitor, me and the other
instructor, steve, and we'relike have you ever done an open
route 718?
I was like no, have you no?
So before we even told thestudent about it, we went to the
shop, we stayed after work andwe were trying to do it.
Be like, well, let's figure itout so we don't look like idiots
when we try to tell this kid todo it.
Man, it took a few rips, likeyeah that's.
That's not an easy one.
I don't even like it was, evenwhen it felt like it looked good
(20:03):
it'd be some ugly.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
You chip the slag off and there's nothing there.
Yeah, that one.
No, that one too, especiallywhen we do it on the two inch
SCAD 80, there's no materialthere, you're.
You can only go an inch, and assoon as that keyhole opens,
you're done.
You're too late, yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
You got a big creep.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
Yeah, If it's running and running good, stop because
it's about to go bad.
That's you gotta, that's yourlimit.
You gotta stop yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Stop while it's good, yeah, oh, yeah.
Well, let's take a quick breakhere for our sponsors and then
when we get back, I'd like totalk about you.
Know how you guys support theskills journey here in in in new
Brunswick for your students andwith the competition, how's
that sound?
All right, we'll be right backhere with Evan Ross on the CWB
Association podcast.
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And we are back on the CWBAssociation podcast.
I'm here in St John, newBrunswick, with Evan Ross from
(22:27):
UA213.
All right, right before thebreak, we're talking about you
know well impossible welds,which are not fun.
Like what is it trying to makewater stick on a wall?
It's not fun.
But these are some of thethings that are going to be
coming down in the future.
A lot of it.
We're trying to get over itwith technology right.
So, like when we say nocellulose roots, this is
(22:48):
something that might be a littlebit hard to swallow Out here in
eastern Canada.
I actually feel you guys are alittle bit ahead of the rest of
the country in terms of tryingto reduce the amount of
cellulose.
Stt RMD, like these modifiedwaveform welding machines,
aren't such a dirty word outhere.
How do you feel about those inyour hall?
Speaker 3 (23:07):
I mean they aren't, but they're not as common.
You know you see them in thefab shops here.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
But we don't use them in the field ever they come
from our fab shops.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
They like to use it.
You know it's.
I like them both.
You know sgt rmd.
I find that they're a greattechnology getting them set up
and can be, you know, kind of apain sometimes but, once you
have everything set, it's, itmakes it a breeze right.
It's quick and easy right cleanyeah, you're banging out joints
(23:39):
in no time.
Yeah, the guy in the next boothbesides just doing it all, tig
still and you're flying them offyeah, there's not even a
comparison, really yeah but wedon't have as much fab shop.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Yeah.
Work here In-house piping work,yeah Right.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
You know, you see that more Ontario, quebec we
just don't have.
A lot of our work ismaintenance and you know actual
installation.
On-site work.
So we still do see a lot of theolder style.
You know the refiner hereespecially, it's all.
They're just starting to moveto 6010.
It was 6011 for years and youknow, you see that now that's an
(24:22):
old farm rod.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
What are you doing with that?
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Oh, that's what we use.
That's that's all we got.
That's what we learned on NewBrunswick especially.
We have our our qualifiedticket F3, f4 qualified.
You need that in order to getany more specialty tickets.
Right Before it was the F3 orF4, it was just an F4.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Right.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
So a lot of the older guys here, you know that's
that's what they, that's howthey grew up on was 70, 18 open
route.
So yeah.
You see, a lot of welderstravel from St John or New
Brunswick alone.
East Coast travel out and theythey shine a lot because we put
out some really good weldershere.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
That's a tough one yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
We do a lot of different stuff.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
You don't see, we might be stuck in the old ways
some sometimes, well, I don'tknow, like out West we're pretty
old school and it frustrates mebecause it's still it's 60, 10
everywhere, like it's 60, 10everywhere and it's, I try to
tell you know my businesscolleagues, people, I work with
industry in general, especiallynow with my job at CWB.
(25:25):
I see lots of what's happeningin the world and I'm just, like
you know, cautionary tale.
We got to start start gettingaway from the 60-10 because it
ain't going to be here much in10 years, because
metallurgically it's not great,right, and maybe it was good
enough for oil, maybe it wasgood enough for tanks, but once
we get to hydrogen, no way isthat going to be?
(25:48):
anywhere on the radar.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
No, you know you got to start evolving.
Take it to the future, right?
Yeah, you know, especially TIG,tig roots you can do now it's.
There's no comparison withanything.
You know you're not getting anycontamination inside the joint,
you know there's no slag ornothing that's getting in there
and you know it's going down theline once it's running and it's
faster now because you gotgreat new orbital setups.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
You got hot feed wire setups.
A tip-tig.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
That's a really good one.
I'd love to see that.
Have you played with one?
I've played with it, but we'retrying to get some contractors
here, but they don't seem towant to bite.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
I got a buddy who can help you.
Have you met?
Speaker 3 (26:30):
Juvie no, but they're a fun machine yeah, they are.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Yeah, now for, for you guys here with skills, what
are you training them for?
Because a lot of what they'redoing here they're going to be
these are mainly structuralwelds.
On most of these things there'sone pressure vessel, but 90 of
the welds are going to be doingare structural aluminum,
structural stainless structuralcarbon with one carbon pressure.
You know, do you have to stepoutside of your normal box to
(26:56):
train that?
I mean, we do.
Speaker 3 (26:58):
But then again, you know we're doing, we still do
some structural stuff.
You know we do pipe shoes andhangers and all that kind of
stuff.
We get apprentices coming innow that you know they kind of
complain.
I just, I want to be a TIGwelder, I want to.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
I want to do the nice , pretty stuff.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
It's like, well, you got to do the dirty stuff too.
You know you got to be able todo everything.
You're going to crawl inunderneath there and weld shoes
and stuff like that.
You know you still have to be.
Just because we're the pipefitters, you know you have to be
able to do a little bit ofeverything, right.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
Yeah, and you're more valuable.
Right, you're more valuable ifyou can do it all.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
Yeah, you walk into a job saying you know, I'm just
no, I'm just here for forTegwald, and you're not going to
be sitting there very long.
You're out there, you knowsomeone throws something at you
and you're you're not scared,you jump in and do it.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:48):
That's going to keep you working.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
And even going to the other side of not scared,
confident, right, you're like ohyeah, I can do that.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
Yeah, you don't even think about it.
That's right, your hand goes up.
Hey, who wants to do that?
I'll do it.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
You know I'll get in there.
You know, right Now I know thatI was just talking to some
students outside and they'relike, oh, you're with CWB.
We heard about your welding.
I was like, yeah, yeah, youknow.
And they're like, well, wedon't need any welding tickets
as millwrights.
And I was like, well, you know,a millwright with a couple CWBs
(28:19):
goes a long way.
Yeah, right Because like yousaid, you got to be available to
work and in this world thatmeans certs Right Right mean
certs right right, same with youknow we're talking f3, f4 is f6
, f5.
We're talking p44, we'retalking about these things.
Those are all certs right, notjust numbers we make out of the
air, right they're.
(28:40):
They give you the ability to domore work that's right.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
you know, especially around here, the better welders
are the ones that if thecontractor comes in and says you
know, we've got this job comingup, we've got to train some
people on you know some titaniumor duplex or anything like that
, if you're, you know secondguessing it, if you even look
like you're going to secondguess it, they're going to go to
(29:05):
the next person.
They're not going to waste thetime and money to get you
trained and risk screwing upsomething on the job.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
I mean titanium's crazy expensive.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
Oh it's insane, it's insane.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
Well, even stainless has gotten so expensive now.
Speaker 3 (29:19):
Oh yeah, Like I mean Everything now you get a box of
filler on your like.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Your mouth hurts.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
Oh yeah.
Well, we had to order two of atitanium filler a couple of
weeks ago.
It was a thousand dollars.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
Yeah, and there's nine rods.
It's not that bad, but it'spretty close.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
Might as well be.
Yeah.
And then we had a student thatI beveled up with a whole bunch
of coupons and had him in acabinet and he went and grabbed
one thinking it was stainlesscoupon, it was titanium and he
couldn't figure out what wasgoing on.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
Why it wasn't welding right, why isn't it?
Speaker 1 (29:49):
melting into it what was going on.
Why it wasn't welding right.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
Why isn't it melting into it?
Should I be cleaning thisdifferent?
Well, you could start with theright coupon, so you just
wrecked about $600.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Now a lot of people don't understand how to get into
unions.
You know, is it as easy as justwalking in the front door of
your local hall and saying Iwant to get a job?
Because I remember when it usedto be tricky, like very tricky,
and my dad was a Boilermaker, Icould never get in the
Boilermakers, even with my dadsigning, because it was there
(30:20):
had to be the right time, therehad to be work, they have to
watch the members.
And I remember getting reallyfrustrated because I was welding
for a long time and my dadwould be like, come and join the
Boilermakers and you know hewas a member.
But they were like, no, we'renot taking any new hires, Right,
but I feel like that was 30years ago.
Maybe things are different now.
Speaker 3 (30:35):
Times are changing now.
You know we've got a lot ofmembers that are retiring
(30:56):
no-transcript.
You know we pass out cards andthings like that, and especially
when it comes time to workterms and stuff like you know,
co-op programs in high school.
We take as many as we can toensure that you know they're
getting, they're get the rightimpression, that you know this
is a good spot.
This is, this is what we offer.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
That's really interesting.
You bring that up because I'veactually been in other provinces
.
Fact that I've had a hall saythat we don't take co-op
students because of liabilityissues and stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
Right, no, I.
I was in co-op program when Icame through and I went to one
of the.
I got in at one of the fabshops here in town, one of the
Indian pipe fitter shops, and itwas hard to get in then.
You know, you really had toknow somebody, but my father and
(31:47):
my uncle and my grandfather areall in the industry.
I had a little bit of a helpinghand to get in to get a co-op
placement, but but being in theshop I wasn't allowed to touch
anything that they were touching, you know.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
I wasn't a.
I wasn't a union member, so Iwasn't, I couldn't but I You're
not laying any real welds onanything, no, but.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
I was right there, standing over their shoulders,
watching and learning everysingle thing I could.
And, you know, for that 13weeks or whatever it was, I was
there.
Yeah, I learned everything Icould.
I came out of that.
I was 16 years old.
I came out of that with my F3plate pressure ticket.
Yeah, and they really helped mealong and pushed me to keep
(32:21):
going with it.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
Keep going, yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
Yeah, no, they were very helpful.
And you know now our hall alonewe take anywhere from, you know
, five to 10 pipe fitters,welders, any, any students
looking for a placement.
We try and take everybody wecan to really get them
interested and show them, teachthem what we can, to try and
hang on to them.
(32:43):
You know, because we want thatfuture generation coming to us.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
If, if there's someone listening to this
podcast and they're in the areayou know they're out here in the
East Coast and they'reinterested about joining a hall.
What's the easiest way to dothat?
How do how do you get in?
Speaker 3 (32:59):
Show up with a resume at the at the door, drop your
resume off.
We come in at our hall here.
We, if you're a welder, we'llcome in.
We'll do an assessment on you.
You know, if, if not right thatminute, the next day To show up
with boots and a helmet.
Show up ready to work and youknow if there's a spot and
there's, that could be yourchance to get in right away.
(33:20):
You know there's.
There's lots of work coming up,lots of work ongoing right now,
especially, you know, anyonewith a red seal and status.
We're always looking.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
Times are different now than they were 20, 30 years
ago.
I remember going to work onpermits back in the day.
I don't know if they still havepermits anymore, but I'd go
work on permits.
I had my Red Seal in weldingbut I wasn't in the hall but
they were so short up that theywould just put out a call out
for Red Seal welders.
Speaker 3 (33:47):
Right.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
And so I would just go work in, permit I Right, and
so I would just go work apermanent.
I'm not a paying member, soyou're not same tier right.
Right, kind of like last in,first out.
But you know, for a shutdown Ididn't mind.
But I remember it was trickyback then, like I'd have a red
seal and some job sites would belike, okay, well, you're a red
seal welder, but you're not ared seal pipe fitter, so you
only get a second year rate orthird year rate.
(34:09):
I'd negotiate that out, right,Does that stuff still kind of
work that?
Speaker 3 (34:12):
way Not, not in our, in our province.
We know we we have a list forevery separate trade.
You don't you don't have to bedual ticketed or anything like
that.
But I know especially weldersright now.
We, you need them, we, we needwelders, we need people taking
welding, you know, but we wantwe want the best yeah.
We, we don't want bucketwelders, but we want we want
(34:36):
them to be good.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
Yeah, I welded buckets for a while.
What's wrong with bucketwelding?
So did I.
Speaker 3 (34:39):
It's a good, it's a good spot to start.
Yeah no-transcript the firsttime, and that's what we want
for for the future and what'sfor your future?
Speaker 1 (35:01):
You know, what do you see for yourself?
You just stepped into this newrole.
I'm sure this is still a bit ofa learning curve.
Speaker 3 (35:06):
It is.
It's a change for sure.
You know I'm used to.
You're off the tools now, I'moff the tools, but I'd still,
you know I I like getting rightin the booths with the with
anyone there.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
You have to, you know .
Speaker 3 (35:17):
You know I I really enjoy it.
I, you know I have the passionfor it.
I've always enjoyed, you know.
You know things change butwe'll see.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
We'll see how the future Climbing a big ladder.
The UA's got a long ladder, ohit does.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
Yeah, you know, I'm at the bottom right now.
We'll see.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
And if you had the opportunity to work out the
province or leave the province?
It sounds like you really loveit out here.
Speaker 3 (35:49):
I love it here.
You know all my family's here.
I'm lucky that I get to be homeevery night and you know, if I
needed to, I would obviously.
But no, I haven't had to.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
You're not looking for it.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
I haven't had to.
I've worked, I've had a steadyjob the whole time I've been in
the UA.
Mm-hmm, okay, you know it'sbeen been.
Some people say that it's notalways like that, but from what
I've seen, it is yeah, there'slots of work.
You have a couple weeks offhere and there, but it's it
could.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
It's needed a lot it's interesting because I've
had, you know, some people.
It's all perspective.
I've had some people say thatto me.
Like well, welding, you knowhow do you deal with layoffs or
how do you deal with this andthat, and it's like you know.
I have been laid off a fewtimes in my life.
It's part of the industry, butI, you know, one time I got laid
off I chose to take, you know,the summer off because it was
(36:42):
like you know get laid off inMay, it's kind of perfect timing
for some camping right.
Speaker 3 (36:47):
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
But then, on the other hand, is if I really
wanted to get back to work thenext day.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
I could have Right.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
Right, I could have.
I could have gone out there andhounded and banged some doors
and done it because,realistically, I've never been
unemployed by choice.
Speaker 3 (37:01):
You know what?
Speaker 1 (37:02):
I mean, it's always been opportunities around.
Speaker 3 (37:05):
Yeah, you want to take a little break?
Yeah, it's the same thing.
Now you know.
If you want to work, you'regoing to be work.
Yeah, If it's not here, if weare a little slow here, there's
all kinds of opportunities inOntario.
Get them at.
There's been a lot of ourmembers out there the last few
years, you know, and they would.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
They're taking everybody.
Speaker 3 (37:25):
Oh yeah, and they'd love to go back too, that's you
know it seems to be a prettygood spot.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
Yeah, big too, that's you know, it seems to be a
pretty good spot.
yeah, big project big money yeah, big money, big project great
scenery yeah, I've seen some ofthe the travel cards co-op for
that poof.
I've seen a stainless uh 22 forlike duplex welding like 100
just under 100 bucks an houryeah oh yeah, if to be young,
again to be young, I would havebeen all over that, oh, exactly.
(37:50):
I'm too old for cap life now,though.
All right, so for the rest ofthe week here, are you going to
be doing any judging, or justhere supporting your competitors
?
Speaker 3 (38:01):
I'm just here supporting this week.
You know, I competed back in mytime.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
Did you?
Yeah, how'd you do?
Speaker 3 (38:08):
Skills Canada.
I did the nationals and I gotthird place at that, and you
Skills Canada.
I did the nationals and I gotthird place at that.
And then I went on to do the UA.
We have our own skillscompetition.
I won the nationals for thatand I went and represented
Canada.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
In the US.
Speaker 3 (38:20):
In the US and Ann Arbor, michigan.
And how'd you do there?
They don't tell you what thewhat the score the final scores
are.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
I didn't win, you just weren't first.
Speaker 3 (38:27):
No, you just weren't first.
No, I wasn't first, but you did.
All right, I did.
I think I held my own.
You know, it was a lot.
Yeah, that was a bigcompetition.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
I've been invited to the UA competition in the US a
couple times and I've never gone.
I really should put it on mycalendar to go and check it out.
Speaker 3 (38:49):
It's a sight to see they really put you to the test
on everything you know down.
It states a lot Our membersdown there you know there's not
a lot of standalone welders.
They're all, they're allpipefitters with welding tickets
.
Yeah, so you were.
You were doing the whole thingfrom scratch yourself.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
You know you're cutting, Cutting and beveling
with a torch and doing tubingand like oh there's a whole
copper project, black steel,everything, oh everything.
Speaker 3 (39:14):
You know.
Cutting laterals, you know itwas, but it was a great
experience.
You know.
I encourage anybody to at leasttry.
You know, try at yourprovincial level.
It's a great experience.
You get to meet a lot of people, you know.
You challenge yourself and younever know you could.
You'd go to the next surpriseyourself, right, you know when I
first went.
I I went when I was a firstyear apprentice, you know.
(39:38):
I came in third at theprovincial level and I said, you
know, I'm getting it next year,you know I put the work in.
I was working night shift andI'd go.
I'd leave the refinery nightshift and drive right down to
the hall and wait for the doorto open, go in and practice for
a few hours and then go home andsleep for a few hours.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:57):
I wanted to win that one.
That was it's.
It's really fun.
I I encouraged everybody to totry it.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
Yeah, I was talking to the kids this morning Well, I
shouldn't say kids or adults,but you know talking to the
students about this experienceand you know I got to mentor a
welder and we got to go toRussia for world skills.
He got ninth in the world andhe won nationals twice here in
Canada, adam Sebastian.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
Yeah, I met him when I was.
He was walking around when Idid the nationals.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
Yeah, so I was his mentor.
I was his teacher well, me andSteve.
I was his mentor.
I was his teacher Well, me andSteve.
And once he got pastprovincials and kind of realized
what it would take to get tonationals, it was a whole nother
game.
It was like well we actuallyknocked on every door in the
country and got money for him sothat he could take a year off
(40:47):
or eight months off.
So all he was doing 10 hours aday.
Speaker 3 (40:50):
You're dedicated, that's it.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
Right, that's the only way you can compete in
nationals.
There's no like.
I mean it's good to just put inthe extra time after work and
stuff, but when you get to thatinternational level, they aren't
working.
Speaker 3 (41:02):
That's a whole nother world.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
It's a whole nother game, and I do at this point.
Everyone should just compete.
I actually brought that up.
Why doesn't everyone justcompete?
Maybe you don't even want to,but just do it.
You might surprise yourself andif you don't do, well, so what
you try.
But at least it was anexperience to see what it was
about.
Right, I get that there's timelimitations and money and
funding, blah, blah, blah, but Ifeel like it's just such a
(41:31):
great experience for anyone totry On the other side of the
fence.
If you're an instructor or aseasoned, older welder or you're
just in the industry, youshould attend these things.
You should come in and see whatthe kids are doing.
You should see the competition.
Speaker 3 (41:46):
And what?
Speaker 1 (41:46):
they're putting themselves through.
You should see what they'reputting themselves through for
really just themselves, causethere's no cash on the table or
no, there's no guaranteed jobson the table.
Speaker 3 (41:56):
Bragging rights, really, that's right.
That's all it is.
Speaker 1 (41:59):
Right, but, like I mean, you know these kids and
that's why I said to them thismorning I'm like everyone that's
in this room is guaranteed agreat job Cause if you already
stuck your neck out this far forjust bragging rights, you're
going to do just fine in thisindustry.
Speaker 3 (42:13):
Right.
You're showing that dedicationand the pride that you have in
that and you know employers seethat.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
They do, they do and you're going to all get cherry
picked.
You know, the one question cameup and it was like you know,
make sure you put this on yourresume.
And it's like, oh, what if wedon't win?
That don't matter.
Speaker 3 (42:29):
Oh, you still try.
You just put it on your resume.
That matters, that's a bigthing.
You still participated in itand put yourself out there.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
Well, this has been a great interview, man.
This has been fantastic and Ihope everyone learned a little
bit about the UA today andwhat's going on out here in the
East Coast.
Any last minute instructionsfor anyone if they want to join
the hall or how do they reachout to get information?
Speaker 3 (42:50):
Just, reach out.
We have the websites, uaorg, orjust show up at the hall.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
Yeah, it is actually that easy it is.
I have just walked into a halland gone.
Speaker 3 (43:03):
You walk in, you know doors are open.
Speaker 1 (43:05):
Yeah, Awesome man.
Well, thanks a lot and I reallyappreciate what you're doing
here and what the hall's doingfor the kids.
Speaker 3 (43:13):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
Awesome and for all the people that have been
following along, there's anothergreat interview here with the
UA, who are great supporters outhere.
It's been a fantastic day ofpodcasts and of seeing the
competitions go down.
Tomorrow's another whole daywith high school students, which
then you get to see the realfear in their eyes.
But we'll be here for them andI really, really appreciate it
and you taking the time.
(43:34):
Thank you, all right, catch youat the next episode.
We hope you enjoyed the show.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
Do you own a company in the welding industry or want
to share a targeted message withour listeners?
Then this 45 second audio adspace could be yours.
We have the coolest listenersfrom all over the world, with
over 60,000 downloads, and 88%are from North America.
This podcast serves to educateand connect the welding
(44:11):
community together and isavailable on all major platforms
, including the CWB GroupNetwork.
If you are interested, reachout to info at cwbassociationorg
.
Look at that.
I just gave you all of thatinformation in only 45 seconds.
You've been listening to theCWB Association Welding Podcast
(44:33):
and if you enjoyed what youheard today or want to send us
some questions to answer, youcan text the show using the link
in the episode descriptionbelow.
We can't wait to hear from you.
Please subscribe or visit us atcwbassociationorg to learn more
.
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