July 9, 2025 • 41 mins
The CWB Association had the privilege to attend the Skills Canada New Brunswick Provincial Competition in Saint John, NB. Join us as we bring you special episodes recorded in person to advocate for careers in skilled trades and technology across the country.
In this eye-opening conversation with Ryan Donaghy, Deputy Minister of Education and Early Childhood Development for New Brunswick, we uncover how this maritime province has quietly become a powerhouse in trades education and employment opportunities. Ryan shares candid insights about how the province is addressing neurodivergence in trades education, creating flexible learning pathways, and ensuring educational mobility so students can enter trades and potentially return to academia later.
Check out: https://www.skillscanadanb.com/
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
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Happy welding.
Hello and welcome to anotheredition of the CWB Association
podcast.
My name is Max Saron and, asalways, we're traveling the
(01:08):
country trying to find the beststories we can.
This week we have been in sunnytoday, st John, new Brunswick,
and we have been having so muchfun with Skills Atlantic Out
here supporting the welders andall the trades, the instructors,
the trainers, the students and,of course, all the people that
(01:32):
volunteer and work with us herethrough the week.
I have with me Ryan Donaghy,who is the Deputy Minister of
Education and Early ChildhoodDevelopment for New Brunswick,
and we know how importanteducation is a part of this
whole skills journey.
How are you doing today, ryan?
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Fantastic.
Thanks for having me, max, andwe brought the sun for you.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Thank you very much.
I know I wasn't expecting toomuch because, well, it's spring
in the Maritimes, I expect rainand I don't mind it, but it's
beautiful today, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
So let's talk a little bit about yourself.
What is it, what is yourposition with the government and
what is your role?
Speaker 2 (02:17):
So I'm the Deputy Minister of Education here in
the province of New Brunswick inthe Anglophone sector.
So in New Brunswick the greatwork that Courtney is doing and
the passion that we see from thestudents in all of the
different competitions certainlyfills my bucket on a beautiful
Sunday day.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Now have you had the chance to walk through and see
the kids going today?
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Yes, I've been here for a couple hours.
I did a quick walkthrough and Ilook forward to getting back
out there as well.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
You know, yesterday was post-secondary and I saw the
welding students this morningand they looked so nervous and I
said to them you know, youdon't look any more nervous than
the older kids yesterday, soit's okay.
It's okay to be nervous, butwhat a wonderful step they make
in putting their necks out.
You know to compete like this.
What a wonderful step they makein putting their necks out.
You know to compete like this.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
What a great experience Something that they
certainly don't get in a classof 24 students being able to
actually take a project fromstart to finish and compete
against folks from around theprovince.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Yeah, their peers.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Yeah, there's nothing like it.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Some are here for a first time, some of them have
been here before and are ready.
The instructors will networkwith other instructors, the
trainers with other trainers andeven you know the bosses with
other bosses.
It's kind of everyone ismeeting people in the industry
that perhaps they don't seeevery day or maybe once a year,
but it's.
You can start bouncing someideas off the walls.
(04:00):
I mean, in the last three days,the amount of conversations
I've had here about you know howthe CWB can help support New
Brunswick, and well, we havesupported.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
New Brunswick considerably.
We'll talk about that certainlyat some point.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
And uh, and you know, I just love the ideas, I love
the, the new thoughts and like,hey, what about this or that?
Speaker 2 (04:17):
And it's, it's really refreshing the conversations
that are happening in thehallway are probably just as
important as the competitionsthat are happening in those
classrooms, but the competitionsthey're learning just as much
as they're competing, and thepartnerships that are happening
in the hallways is phenomenal tosee.
So for your role.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
you know, like, how did Ryan get to be in this job?
You know it sounds like peoplesometimes don't get how people
get into politics in the firstplace, and I'm sure you came in
with lots of dreams.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Sure.
So firstly, in New Brunswick,our deputy ministers are not
actually elected and political.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
So I have a minister, Claire Johnson.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
So I leave the politics to her.
So I'm on the operations sideof things, running the
department, if you will.
But my journey actually is 23years with the province of New
Brunswick, different rolesgrowing through the system and
with other departments.
So I've only been with theDepartment of Education for two
(05:17):
and a half years.
Okay, those two and a halfyears as deputy, I was deputy
minister of other departmentsprior to this.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Okay, and all within the province of New Brunswick.
Correct, and what was youreducation?
What's your background?
Speaker 2 (05:29):
So I went to the University of New Brunswick.
I have a BA with a major inpolitical science.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
You have a poli-sci major, I'm a philosophy major.
Ah, there you go.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
How did we get here?
I don't know and my backgroundis actually in communications,
so I was a communicationsdirector for many years with the
province of New Brunswick.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Now, when you were coming up in this province,
growing up as a kid, what wasthe attitude that you felt, or
was trades on your radar?
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Great question.
So, not surprisingly, throughthe 90s and early 2000s it was a
lot more tech.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Computer science, IT Exactly.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
And some of the trades were actually taken out
of our schools at that point, soit's great to see them coming
back.
We created our own need becauseof that.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
So the foresight may not have been there, but they're
coming back, and they're comingback with a vengeance, and we
see it here today.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
And that's a tricky game to play.
Education is very muchgenerally playing catch up, but
we know in the education worldthat it should be the leader.
It should be on the leadingedge of the trend that's going
to be coming.
That's ideally.
What you would want is tocreate the workforce for the
upcoming need.
You would want is to create theworkforce for the upcoming need
(06:47):
, whereas I agree with you, inthe 90s and 2000s we were trying
to create workers for a needthat was already on the way out
and we may have surplusedourselves in areas we didn't
need.
And now we're seeing some ofthe repercussions the skills gap
, the age gap, the wage gap, allthe gaps, right, right, and you
know how do we start looking atresolving these issues?
Speaker 2 (07:10):
So it's a fine balance.
Yeah, but the more we look atactually not just the need but
the passion of the students,Right what do they want to do?
I was talking to an individualwith NBCC and he's taking in
high school students into thecommunity colleges and there's a
multi, there's a.
There are multiple benefits tothat.
(07:30):
Some figure out that this isn'tfor them that's as important as
anything that is.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Yeah, I don't want to do that, right yeah?
Speaker 2 (07:36):
and then others are figuring out this is their
passion, this is where they'regoing for the rest of their
lives, and others know that theywant to do something in this
area maybe not quite whatthey're going for the rest of
their lives, and others knowthat they want to do something
in this area, maybe not quitewhat they're doing today.
So being able to go grab thatpassion when we look especially
high school students, which iswhat we have in front of us if
(07:57):
you can hook them and find theirpassion, man, does that ever
make it interesting in theirhigh school?
If they don't have that,they're just going through the
motions and that's okay too, andmaybe their passion isn't in
the trades.
But for those that are, we arebringing more and more
(08:22):
opportunities for those studentsto be able to explore those
passions, hopefully get on atrack to get a career, and the
partnership that we have withSkills Canada, as well as with
the community college and yourassociation and other
associations in this, uh, in theskills workforce, is something
that's relatively new andexpanding, and we're really
excited about it.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
No, it is exciting and and at the end of the day,
the kids don't know what theydon't know, right.
So if you don't create someawareness about what's available
, it's not going to be on theirradar.
And it's like anybody with kids.
You know that the screens are aproblem, the TV is a problem.
I mean, when I was young it wasthe video games were a problem.
It's always something's aproblem, but what the problem
(09:02):
really is is that they're notdoing what they actually enjoy,
because when they're doingsomething that they enjoy,
screens are not a problemanymore.
They've forgotten how to ballit.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
I just had that conversation in the auto body
shop and they mentioned 14students that had come in and
they were told go observe andfigure out what you might want
to do.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Well, all of a sudden , they're all in the corner on
their phones.
Well, all of a sudden, they'reall in the corner on their
phones.
The next time they were in,they put them to work.
They figured out whether theyliked it or not, and a number of
them were passionately involvedin what was going on, so you
have to do it.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
You have to do it.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
You have to get your hands dirty if you will, and
I've been enjoying trying someof those trades myself.
So apparently I need a littlebit more work on hammering a
nail because I bent it but, I,was pretty good with the roofing
.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Now, you know, when we talk about passion, I always
find that that's a trickystatement because, as you know,
as we get older, passions shiftand I feel like that's something
that in the trades, is sovaluable.
Important to understand is thatthere's transferable skills
between all the trades that you.
There is nothing wrong, and infact myself being a dual red
(10:12):
seal, now you know, having mypassion shift mid-career was
kind of the best thing that everhappened to me.
So, you know, I see these youngkids and you said you know,
what am I going to be doing forthe rest of your life?
Don't worry about that.
You got a long life ahead ofyou.
Do what you enjoy now.
If you're in the trades, any ofthe skilled trades you're going
to have a job, you're going tomake good money, you're going to
(10:34):
have a pension, you're going tohave the benefits and all those
things.
And then you know 10, 15 years,the ability to change it up
Right, you know what I mean.
You can come teach, that'sright.
You can do all the differentthings that are out there and
that's okay and that's wonderfulabout the trades I went to
university.
Changing directions in academiais trying to turn a ship in the
(10:59):
dark Like it's a hard.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Unless you do it three weeks in.
I tried to be a dentist.
It didn't quite work out.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
I actually did about a full semester of computer
science because everyone told meto do computer science, because
it was that time, it was thattime and I was like about two
months into it I was like thisis really boring, like I can't
see myself doing this for therest of my life.
Now for yourself, you know,when you're looking at it within
your role, are you looking tosupport programs, create
(11:27):
programs?
You know what?
What is it that is kind of thefocus.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
So we've done a little bit of both.
Uh, the supporting the programsobviously is the easier part.
Uh, because they're alreadyestablished, they already have a
track record and you want to goand support those.
Our budgets recently have moneyfor consumables, for example.
Wow, we are supporting thetrades.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
We're putting trades back into some of the middle
schools that had lost it.
We have trades in all of thehigh schools, but we're
continuing to expand those aswell.
And then new partnerships.
We have the Centers ofexcellence here in New Brunswick
great partnerships.
We have the welding trailer,which was a great partnership
that we see the benefits of allthe time.
Uh, so we just want to keeppromoting and doing what is
(12:18):
working and, to your point,getting in on the cutting edge
of that new opportunity isreally important.
It is, yeah, it's a bit of arisk.
It's a bit innovative.
But what an opportunity.
So of course that brings up allkinds of things around
technology and AI Automation.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Absolutely, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
And we can't be afraid to jump in and just do it
cautiously, yeah, yeah yeah,figure out where you want to go
and where you don't.
Yeah, but that's what we'regrappling with in the education
world in Canada and around theworld.
So something your listenersprobably don't know we have
schools around the world thatdeliver our curriculum, so I get
(13:01):
to see some of those countriesand how they're responding to
some of these very things.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Yeah.
Uh, and and how, how, how theycan feed back on it and how it
works.
Yeah, absolutely All thesimilarities and the differences
, right Right Now, in terms ofthese collaborations.
You know, at the CWB, we areobviously always looking to to
support our own industry.
It's, it's, it's a battle ofself-preservation right.
(13:27):
We want more welders to enterthe workforce, because those
welders are what prop up oursociety in terms of the trade
and it's the cyclical nature.
One of the things that we'vebeen trying to do that has been
always something a hard battle,and I know it is within
provinces as well is gettingprivate industry to buy in,
getting private industry to bethat third partner or second
(13:48):
partner or fourth partner,whatever it is, and say you know
what?
you're the ones that need thetrades people At some point.
Is there a level ofresponsibility for you to invest
into perhaps some of theseprograms?
What's your thoughts on that?
Speaker 2 (14:02):
So we have a few different avenues that that can
happen.
So we have the Centers ofExcellence, which will actually
sign private sector partners,where there's either a monetary
component or doing some type ofinitiative with a number of
schools, or online, depending onwhat it is.
So we work with industry tofigure out how best to make that
(14:25):
work.
We also have lots ofopportunities where students are
, uh, going into the workplacethrough a co-op, for example, uh
, and we want more of thatbecause it's that hands-on
learning that we very muchpromote.
Uh, and there's a dual benefitthere.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Yeah, the companies basically get to cherry pick.
There is nothing wrong withthat, like I mean, that's why we
have NHL drafts.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
That's right.
You get to test drive the car.
That's right, yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Now, in terms of you know, the industry stepping up
out here in New Brunswick,something I've learned this week
which I've loved.
This is why I do these thingsin the communications, the
podcasts I'm having.
I guess, to back story it, I'mfrom the West right, I live in,
I grew up in, regina, westernindustry.
Okay, in the West we've alwayshad this false and I'll say it
(15:14):
now this false idea that thereisn't work in the Maritimes and
that the reason we have so manytravel cards and trades people
come from the Maritimes to theWest to work is because there
was none here.
And I'm learning now, and Ihave learned this week, that
that's erroneous.
That's not true.
There's tons of work.
I've been shown this weekcompanies building projects,
(15:38):
construction projects,manufacturing plants that are
booming.
I heard just the UA hassomething like 2 million man
hours ahead of them and it'slike wow, like I had no idea.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
So we're in St John.
There's lots of industry,there's lots of industry,
there's lots of jobs, there'slots going on.
We have the port.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
That has all kinds of the port is growing
exponentially here in St John Isaw that they're rebuilding a
part of it for cruise ships andstuff.
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
So certainly a falsehood.
There are opportunities here.
There are opportunities for NewBrunswick students to get jobs
in that area, to go to collegeand get their Red Seal.
There are opportunities forfolks around the country to come
to New Brunswick, and have weever seen a lot of that
happening?
Since the pandemic, ourpopulation has been increasing
(16:25):
exponentially.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
It means some pressure in the education system
, the hidden gem of Canada here,that's right.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
So I'd much prefer to manage growth than decline, and
we've been doing that.
And the more students we have,the more opportunities that we
can give them in some of theseareas, and it's been fantastic.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
And in terms of that growth.
You know, for example, thismorning I went and talked to the
students going into the weldingcompetition.
There was 15 students in theroom representing 14 different
high schools and I thought howis there even 14 high schools
with welding shops in NewBrunswick?
That's a lot for a smallprovince.
And then the one instructorsays, oh, there's probably 30.
(17:04):
Yeah, and I was like what theheck?
Like I mean out in the Westwe're so proud of our trades
programs and we should be like Imean we got great
apprenticeship programs, but Idon't think we got kind of that
kind of representation Likethat's magnificent.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
So each high school looks at what what they can
offer uh, either because ofequipment, because of space or
because of what the studentswould want to do Uh what the
students would want to do Uh,and in different parts of the
province they have uh their ownunique uh opportunity in the
skills trades Uh.
But yeah, welding is seen uhthroughout the province.
(17:36):
We've actually increased 276%of students taking welding in
six years.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
That's amazing and I I've been coming here for
conferences for a while.
I was in here for Skills Canadain 2019.
You know, I've been seeing kindof the growth of the Maritimes
as kind of an outsider and I'vereally been impressed with some
of the centers of excellence, asI was at the grand opening of
the Moncton one and yeah, I wasand it's blowing me away these
(18:04):
investments and they're multiplepartner investments right.
No one's doing it alone.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Right and I just want to mention.
You mentioned 15 students heretoday.
They come from 224 studentsregionally who competed in
welding Wow.
So what an opportunity, andI've heard a story of a student
whose high school was notoffering welding found an
opportunity with the privatesector and has been working with
(18:31):
that private sector partner andshe's here today.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
That's amazing.
So like we're talking highschool kids who got jobs already
laid out for them.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
That's wow.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Right, if you're good and you test drove that car,
you hire that person, right.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, this is a great time totake a quick break here and
we're going to slide into uhcommercials from our advertisers
and in the second half, when weget back, I want to talk about
the skills program itself herein new brunswick and how it's
grown it's really exploded inthe last few years and and the
tie-ins to the education systemhere so wonderful we'll be right
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And we are back here on the cwbassociation podcast.
My name is max ron and I'm herewith ryan donahue.
I hope I say that right, you do.
Yeah, I'm surprised aswesterners can say some weird.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
I've had lots, of uh, different interpretations of
that one.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
All right.
So before the break we werejust talking about the growth of
the welding programs and, Ithink, to skilled trades in
general out here in NewBrunswick.
In terms of skills, how's thatcorrelation been going with
skills Like?
Is it causation or correlation?
Did skills make it grow or didthe growth make skills grow?
Speaker 2 (21:10):
I'll let Courtney speak to that piece.
But certainly it is growing inboth sides of that, uh, that
equation.
What a great partnership.
Uh, the, actually theconsumables that are going to be
left over at this event aregoing to come back to the high
school.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
That's right.
I just had the, actually thehigh school teacher.
I met her.
She's like all these things arecoming to my school and I was
like awesome.
I think we'll try to move themaround just a little bit I think
she said the machines or someof the machines.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
But nonetheless the fact that there is that
partnership between skills andthe education system, between
the private sector and theassociations and the education
system.
What an opportunity to givesome of those experiences to the
students but also to createthat pipeline pardon the pun
into the skills trades.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
Well, speaking of pipeline, we've got one of the
biggest refineries in NorthAmerica right outside our window
here.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Yes, we do.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
And I come from a refinery town too, in Regina, so
I know the needs that just one,just one industry like that can
create.
There is hundreds of jobs onsite and thousands of jobs in
the periphery just to keep thatplant running right.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
And when you have things like that, you're not
even counting the pulp mills,the ocean travel, the marine
work, the maintenance.
Then you got the unions and theconstruction.
It's just seems like it's allgreen lights around here.
What an opportunity or what aplace to host a skills
competition but, in St John, newBrunswick.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Certainly we could do it in many of the communities
around the province.
But, as you say, having thatout the window, certainly it's
not hard to see that there areopportunities right here.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
Right Now I want to throw a hardball at one at you,
okay, sure.
So one of the things that comesup in education often in terms
of the trades and our future isthe changing dynamic of the
students themselves.
We're seeing a lot moreneurodivergence and
understanding of theneurodivergence and needs within
our students.
The different type ofaccommodations and needs that
(23:13):
the schools have created to helpour students get you know
through school and have asuccessful journey in high
school.
The trades have always been avery safe space for the
neurodivergent.
It's something that fits inwell.
If you want to hyper-focus weld, you know you want to work with
your hands.
We got the type of trades foryou Right, but how can you know
(23:33):
both ministries and privateindustries help after high
school into the college systems,into the workforce?
That's something that I feellike we're working on, but it's
going to be tricky and I thinkit's important that we get ahead
of that to see how we canaccommodate our workforce into
the future.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
So great question and it's something that we do
grapple with, but we are talkingwith the college all the time
about how we can support thosestudents.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Giving them the skills-based training, giving
them the pipeline into thecollege.
So part of our partnership isyou can do some of your your
hours and some of your coursesin high school.
What was the program called?
I just met the gentlemanSomething H.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
I apologize.
Yeah, we'll find it.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
The ability to do some of that and create that
pipeline into the communitycollege.
What an opportunity.
Absolutely, and it's a pipelinefor them, obviously yeah.
Uh, but a benefit for thatstudent which is what I care
about as the deputy of education.
Yeah, um, so the it's aboutfinding what that career path is
(24:48):
.
Uh, and we've changed actuallyin New Brunswick the way we the
the high school, so it's aboutfinding what that career path is
and we've changed actually inNew Brunswick the way we, the
high school philosophy, and weknow that that university path
that everybody was supposed tobe on in the 90s and 2000s isn't
for everybody.
There is a path into thecollege and skills trades.
The college, uh, and skillstrades world, yeah, and what a
(25:10):
growing opportunity that is herein the province of New
Brunswick.
Uh, we, we mentioned it in someof the numbers earlier.
Um and other uh outside of that.
Just learning those skills isgoing to be a benefit to you for
the rest of your life.
Yeah, on the daily, absolutelyso, uh, giving those
opportunities to thoseopportunities to those students
(25:31):
is something that I'm clearlypassionate about, and the
partnership that we have withSkills is just giving even more
opportunity to those students.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Well, and we've learned at the CWB over the last
few years.
We've really been tracking theopportunities to come into the
trades, succeed in the tradesand establish a life, a career
and then return to academiaperhaps at a later date, because
not all of us are ready foruniversity at 18.
And some of us maybe never wantto go, but some of us maybe do,
(26:00):
but later.
You know like, and I feel likeit's been too rigid of a system
for too long, where there needsto be that flexibility, that
educational mobility, let's say,to be able to go into a trade,
establish a career, then maybego try something else, but you
have those acquired skills thatare transferable to so many
things.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
And now universities have caught up a little bit,
where they'll give some creditfor that Absolutely yeah,
similarly a Red Seal that wantsto come teach in our system.
Who wants to get a BED?
That's possible now too.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
I just heard about that today, Cause in
Saskatchewan they have a similarprogram as well.
Um, because as a Red Sealwelder, I went to go teach at
the college but I didn't have abachelor's of education.
So it was like you know, but itwas a two year program.
It's not too late, Right?
No, no, you know, I think aboutit.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
I think about it.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
When I retire, I think I'll probably be one of
those people that goes touniversity forever.
There you go, because I thinkit'd be fun, but there are
opportunities to to not evenjust enter the trades but then
flourish through the trades intokind of any branch you want to
go down.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Right, right, the opportunities really are endless
.
They're throughout the countryas well.
It's not like you'repigeonholing yourself to
absolutely being in one place.
Right there are opportunitiesacross the country and
throughout the world.
That's yeah.
Some of my family members arein mines in Northern Ontario
right now.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
And living in New Brunswick, so what an
opportunity, and when theydecide that they want to be
closer to home, there'sopportunities right outside this
window.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
Yeah, I was talking to the students yesterday and I
said you know who here knowsabout the CWB and all they all
put their hands up.
It's like, yeah, you know,we're the codes people for the
work that you do.
And I said you realize, whenyou graduate college and you
have these CWB tickets and youhave this certificate, that you
can travel to over 80 countrieswith those certifications and
make money there's.
You know, if you want to gowork a year in Australia, you
(27:54):
can like I mean.
These kinds of opportunities arenot that we want anyone to
leave.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Of course not.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Go visit, come back.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
I'll gladly bring those from other provinces to
New Brunswick who don't don'twant them leaving New Brunswick,
though.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
But just that, that openness of openness of
possibilities.
And I mean when we're talkingabout skills, these students I
always want to call them kids,but they're I mean they're
students these students arealready putting their necks out
there.
They're already taking thatforward step of taking the risk.
I heard so many of the studentssay you know, I'm not here to
(28:28):
win or I'm not here to do, youalready won.
Right, you already walked inthe door.
What an experience they'regetting All the all the kids
that didn't try.
They're the ones that didn'tget anything out of it, but the
ones that tried it.
It's not a win or lose thing.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
And, and I think uh skills and and Courtney Donovan,
they're going which is thisthing's going to grow even more.
Yeah, the passion that we seefrom those students, the growth
that we've seen in the regionalcompetitions, the growth that
we've seen in each of theindividual trades.
We are on the cusp of havingsome really, really fun times at
(29:05):
skills competitions and some ofthese kids are going to
nationals.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Yeah, absolutely so.
What an opportunity.
I was already telling them,I'll see you in Regina.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
Because that's an experience for people to be a
part of, not just the tradethey're in but the community
that that trade has with it.
Because that's something thatthe trades have always been so
great about is they reallydevelop their own communities of
people and the networkingwithin them, the conferences,
the learning opportunities.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
you know, the professional learning abilities
it's never ending the number ofprevious competitors that are
here assisting.
Yeah, to just help mentor youcan see that mentorship, the
community that they've built.
Yeah, it's alive and well,right here.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
Yeah, now for for yourself.
What would you love to see interms of the skills growth you
know, aside from, of course, newBrunswick getting on all the
podiums and winning all the goldmedals?
Speaker 2 (30:00):
but Well, it's actually fun to even walk into
some of these classrooms andseeing the banners from previous
years.
We're in a community college,so we have some of those in the
high schools as well.
But certainly it's not justabout that.
It's about the experience thatthese students are getting.
They've, obviously they'reperfecting their craft and now
(30:22):
they get to come and testthemselves and push themselves.
So for me it's continuing togrow the opportunities for these
students, and then it's forthem to grab it.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Yeah, and I guess, and having the awareness of what
those opportunities are right,Because there always has to be a
little bit of a frontaleducation to you.
Can't just lay outopportunities, it doesn't mean
anything, right?
Speaker 2 (30:47):
And watching it isn't enough.
Yeah Right, you might get, youmight pique your interest, but
then you go off to other things.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
When you actually do it.
That's where their face lightsup and they might be hooked for
life.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
That's right, you never truly understand how much
you hate golf until you gogolfing.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
I might be a golfer, but yeah, I love golfing.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
I love, but you don't see them get mad.
That's right Now, in terms ofyou and your position as the
Deputy Minister of Education.
What can you do to supportskills and these type of
journeys?
Speaker 2 (31:22):
It was really important for me to be here.
I got the invite and it was anabsolutely I would Well you
can't say no to Courtney, goodluck.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
Well, that's true, uh , we weren't planning on being
in Atlantic Canada.
She called me and she saidyou're going to be here.
I said okay.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Well, fantastic, glad you're here, Glad I'm on your
podcast, uh, but yeah, uh, itit's about promoting it, it's
about securing funding andpartnerships for it, and that's
what I'm working on.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
Yeah, I mean we're a silver sponsor.
We are very proud to sponsorand actually like we have a big
soft spot in our hearts forMaritimes.
New Brunswick has been awonderful partner for the CWB.
Our curriculum is almost in allyour high schools.
That's right and and it'ssomething that we feel like I
said before it's aself-preservation of the
(32:10):
industry, because we don't wantthe welders to do a poor job and
have bad careers.
We want them to have greatcareers and make buckets of
money and have all thosewonderful things and we want
them to stay.
That's another thing, like wedon't want them to think that
they got to fly to another placeor leave the country in order
to make money and have a goodcareer.
It can be in your own backyardif you want it.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Yeah, and some of those students that are welding
right now are going to find jobsright here in New Brunswick
either for the summer if they'renot in grade 12 yet or going
through their apprenticeship.
So the partnerships that wehave with the private sector is
really invaluable in creatingthat opportunity.
So they get to try them out aswe talked about earlier, but,
(32:52):
more importantly, those studentsget that hands-on experience,
that real world experience.
It's not the same doing it inthe class as it is when you're,
when you're in the shop, andit's not as fun.
No, exactly.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
If you can't get hurt , it's not fun, right?
Speaker 2 (33:05):
Well, hopefully we don't have no injuries today.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
Okay, all right.
Last couple of questions.
You know there's a lot ofmoving parts, right, there's a
lot of moving parts to this.
There's economies that change.
There's, you know, trends thatchange.
We see lots of business comingin, but within that there's
always businesses going out Foryour position.
(33:32):
How do you keep your you know,finger on the wrist of trying to
evaluate what's going to be thenext thing that you need to be
mindful of.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
So certainly working with partners across the country
is very important.
We meet as deputy ministers ofeducation across the country.
We're also looking at thoseglobal trends.
It's not about what's happeningjust in our backyard, it's
knowing what are thoseopportunities for our students
coming in the future.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
So we don't want to have you can't sit on your hands
Right and we don't want to havehappen.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
What happened in the past, where you go, that's done.
Yeah that's right.
Well, that probably wasn't thebest decision and we need to
learn from that.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
So, while we'll continue to maneuver and we'll
have more or less of of certainthings, it's about making sure
that we give as manyopportunities to those students
as we can, based on where thosejob opportunities are and where
the passion of those studentsare.
So it's really a school byschool conversation.
(34:34):
Yeah, uh, as opposed, that's alot of conversations.
It's a lot of conversations, uh,but they, they have some
autonomy on what they deliver uh, at the local and district
level as opposed to at theprovincial level, and then at at
when we're looking globally, uh, it's about identifying those
trends, dipping our toe insometimes or going all in is the
(34:56):
conversation and the decisionthat needs to be made.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
And the relationship between Skills New Brunswick and
the education department.
You know how does that workhere.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
So I will give a very tangible example actually.
So we're a smaller province.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
So that allows us to be quite nimble and it allows us
to have some pretty goodrelationships with our partners.
So one day Courtney was in myoffice and mentioned that this
event is usually held on theweekend and because it's held on
the weekend, try a trade theschool's coming in you kind of
(35:34):
lose that opportunity Just downthe street.
I had just finished meetingwith the four superintendents
and I said, well, why don't wetalk to them about potentially
changing that?
So we drove down the street ona snowy day, met with the four
superintendents that I hauledout of a meeting.
And here we are on a Thursday.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
On a Thursday, yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
With buildings full of students.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
Yeah, full houses all around, yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
So our partnership, our relationship is very strong
and that's kudos to theleadership on the ground, the
foresight and the vision to growthis, and we're seeing it right
in front of us?
Speaker 1 (36:14):
Yeah, that's right.
And last question I know yougot a very, very busy day, I
guess, from our point of view.
Now me asking, as a sponsor, asupporter, a funder to many of
the programs in this province,what is it that we can do better
?
What is it that the provincewould ask of us in general, the
(36:36):
people that you're looking toseek to ask for funding to, to
make the partnerships?
You know what's, what's thepitch to us that we can do
better or we can bring in foryou?
Speaker 2 (36:46):
So, firstly, thank you.
Without the partnerships wedon't have these events.
Without the partnerships wedon't have all the opportunities
that we have in our school.
So a huge thank you to yourassociation, as well as all of
the skills, trades associationsand private sector partners that
we have.
I won't go down the listbecause I'll miss somebody, so I
can't possibly do that, but ahuge thank you.
(37:08):
I can't possibly do that, but ahuge thank you.
As far as what you can do,you're on the cutting edge.
You know what is next.
So being able to have thoseconversations so that we don't
miss out on an opportunity.
But of course, I always wantmore opportunities in what we're
doing right now.
I want to grow what we're doingright now.
So anyone who has dipped theirtoe in with our centers of
(37:30):
excellence or or ourpartnerships, let's go all in,
uh and happy to have thoseconversations.
Speaker 1 (37:37):
No, I love that, and it is.
It is true, like we collect somuch data.
Right, we got our fingerprinton over 60,000 welders across
this country, and you know.
Then the next question is whatdo you do with the data?
Speaker 2 (37:49):
Right, it's got to go somewhere so many of our
organizations are so data richyeah and analysis poor.
Yeah, so we need to startanalyzing that data and figuring
out what's next.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
That's exactly what we're trying to do now and these
partnerships actually help us,I guess.
Put a face to the data saying,you know, like these are the
trends, and then you have, youknow, hundreds, hundreds of
students coming through.
This data is relative andimportant to them because that's
their future, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
Right and the the.
The future is now for thesestudents who are here competing,
and I want to wish them allluck as they, as they finish off
this afternoon.
They're going to be up on thepodium and some of them are
going to join you in, regina.
Yeah, I can't wait.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
It's going to join you in, regina.
Yeah, I can't wait.
It's going to be a good time.
I promise to host them.
Well, excellent, all right.
Well, thank you so much.
Is there anything you'd like tosay in terms of, perhaps, how
people can get information aboutwhat's going on in New
Brunswick?
This is listened to around theworld.
There's anything you'd like topromote?
Speaker 2 (38:43):
Absolutely so, thanks .
Thanks for the opportunity toparticipate on your podcast.
Skills Canada I'll make theplug for them and Skills New
Brunswick.
But our Centers of Excellencehere in New Brunswick, it's a
model that's really interestingto a lot of jurisdictions and we
have a world-class educationsystem right here in New
(39:04):
Brunswick.
It's recognized in so manycountries.
There's so many amazing thingshappening in our schools.
It's not all roses.
I don't want to pretend that.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
But the work that these students that are in this
building today have put intomastering their craft is because
of the teachers and mentors andthose who came before them, and
I just want to thank everyone.
It's an absolute pleasure forme, an honor for me, to be a
participant of the teachers andmentors and those who came
before them, and I just want tothank everyone.
Speaker 1 (39:37):
It's an absolute pleasure for me, an honour for
me to be a participant in thisevent today.
Speaker 2 (39:39):
That's awesome.
Thank you so much for comingtoday.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
Appreciate it All right, and for all the people
that have been following thepodcast, thanks so much.
We are not done here inAtlantic Canada.
I got a couple more comingtoday, so make sure you check
them all, because there has beenso many wonderful lessons
learned about what's happeningout here in New Brunswick and
the wonderful things that arehappening in the maritime.
So check out this podcast,check out the rest of them from
this series, and I'll catch youat the next one.
(40:01):
We hope you enjoy the show.
Speaker 3 (40:15):
Do you own a company in the welding industry or want
to share a targeted message withour listeners?
Then this 45-second audio adspace could be yours.
We have the coolest listenersfrom all over the world, with
over 60,000 downloads, and 88%are from North America.
This podcast serves to educateand connect the welding
(40:39):
community together and isavailable on all major platforms
, including the CWB GroupNetwork.
If you are interested, reachout to info at cwbassociationorg
.
Look at that.
I just gave you all of thatinformation in only 45 seconds.
You've been listening to theCWB Association Welding Podcast
and if you enjoyed what youheard today or want to send us
(40:59):
some questions to answer, youcan text the show using the link
in the episode descriptionbelow.
We can't wait to hear from you.
Please subscribe or visit us atcwbassociationorg to learn more
.
All right, I can check.
Check, I'm good.
So I'm Max Duran.
Max Duran, cwb AssociationWelding Podcast.
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Happy welding.
Hello and welcome to anotheredition of the CWB Association
podcast.
My name is Max Saron and, asalways, we're traveling the
(01:08):
country trying to find the beststories we can.
This week we have been in sunnytoday, st John, new Brunswick,
and we have been having so muchfun with Skills Atlantic Out
here supporting the welders andall the trades, the instructors,
the trainers, the students and,of course, all the people that
(01:32):
volunteer and work with us herethrough the week.
I have with me Ryan Donaghy,who is the Deputy Minister of
Education and Early ChildhoodDevelopment for New Brunswick,
and we know how importanteducation is a part of this
whole skills journey.
How are you doing today, ryan?
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Fantastic.
Thanks for having me, max, andwe brought the sun for you.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Thank you very much.
I know I wasn't expecting toomuch because, well, it's spring
in the Maritimes, I expect rainand I don't mind it, but it's
beautiful today, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
So let's talk a little bit about yourself.
What is it, what is yourposition with the government and
what is your role?
Speaker 2 (02:17):
So I'm the Deputy Minister of Education here in
the province of New Brunswick inthe Anglophone sector.
So in New Brunswick the greatwork that Courtney is doing and
the passion that we see from thestudents in all of the
different competitions certainlyfills my bucket on a beautiful
Sunday day.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Now have you had the chance to walk through and see
the kids going today?
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Yes, I've been here for a couple hours.
I did a quick walkthrough and Ilook forward to getting back
out there as well.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
You know, yesterday was post-secondary and I saw the
welding students this morningand they looked so nervous and I
said to them you know, youdon't look any more nervous than
the older kids yesterday, soit's okay.
It's okay to be nervous, butwhat a wonderful step they make
in putting their necks out.
You know to compete like this.
What a wonderful step they makein putting their necks out.
You know to compete like this.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
What a great experience Something that they
certainly don't get in a classof 24 students being able to
actually take a project fromstart to finish and compete
against folks from around theprovince.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Yeah, their peers.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Yeah, there's nothing like it.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Some are here for a first time, some of them have
been here before and are ready.
The instructors will networkwith other instructors, the
trainers with other trainers andeven you know the bosses with
other bosses.
It's kind of everyone ismeeting people in the industry
that perhaps they don't seeevery day or maybe once a year,
but it's.
You can start bouncing someideas off the walls.
(04:00):
I mean, in the last three days,the amount of conversations
I've had here about you know howthe CWB can help support New
Brunswick, and well, we havesupported.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
New Brunswick considerably.
We'll talk about that certainlyat some point.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
And uh, and you know, I just love the ideas, I love
the, the new thoughts and like,hey, what about this or that?
Speaker 2 (04:17):
And it's, it's really refreshing the conversations
that are happening in thehallway are probably just as
important as the competitionsthat are happening in those
classrooms, but the competitionsthey're learning just as much
as they're competing, and thepartnerships that are happening
in the hallways is phenomenal tosee.
So for your role.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
you know, like, how did Ryan get to be in this job?
You know it sounds like peoplesometimes don't get how people
get into politics in the firstplace, and I'm sure you came in
with lots of dreams.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Sure.
So firstly, in New Brunswick,our deputy ministers are not
actually elected and political.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
So I have a minister, Claire Johnson.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
So I leave the politics to her.
So I'm on the operations sideof things, running the
department, if you will.
But my journey actually is 23years with the province of New
Brunswick, different rolesgrowing through the system and
with other departments.
So I've only been with theDepartment of Education for two
(05:17):
and a half years.
Okay, those two and a halfyears as deputy, I was deputy
minister of other departmentsprior to this.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Okay, and all within the province of New Brunswick.
Correct, and what was youreducation?
What's your background?
Speaker 2 (05:29):
So I went to the University of New Brunswick.
I have a BA with a major inpolitical science.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
You have a poli-sci major, I'm a philosophy major.
Ah, there you go.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
How did we get here?
I don't know and my backgroundis actually in communications,
so I was a communicationsdirector for many years with the
province of New Brunswick.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Now, when you were coming up in this province,
growing up as a kid, what wasthe attitude that you felt, or
was trades on your radar?
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Great question.
So, not surprisingly, throughthe 90s and early 2000s it was a
lot more tech.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Computer science, IT Exactly.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
And some of the trades were actually taken out
of our schools at that point, soit's great to see them coming
back.
We created our own need becauseof that.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
So the foresight may not have been there, but they're
coming back, and they're comingback with a vengeance, and we
see it here today.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
And that's a tricky game to play.
Education is very muchgenerally playing catch up, but
we know in the education worldthat it should be the leader.
It should be on the leadingedge of the trend that's going
to be coming.
That's ideally.
What you would want is tocreate the workforce for the
upcoming need.
You would want is to create theworkforce for the upcoming need
(06:47):
, whereas I agree with you, inthe 90s and 2000s we were trying
to create workers for a needthat was already on the way out
and we may have surplusedourselves in areas we didn't
need.
And now we're seeing some ofthe repercussions the skills gap
, the age gap, the wage gap, allthe gaps, right, right, and you
know how do we start looking atresolving these issues?
Speaker 2 (07:10):
So it's a fine balance.
Yeah, but the more we look atactually not just the need but
the passion of the students,Right what do they want to do?
I was talking to an individualwith NBCC and he's taking in
high school students into thecommunity colleges and there's a
multi, there's a.
There are multiple benefits tothat.
(07:30):
Some figure out that this isn'tfor them that's as important as
anything that is.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Yeah, I don't want to do that, right yeah?
Speaker 2 (07:36):
and then others are figuring out this is their
passion, this is where they'regoing for the rest of their
lives, and others know that theywant to do something in this
area maybe not quite whatthey're going for the rest of
their lives, and others knowthat they want to do something
in this area, maybe not quitewhat they're doing today.
So being able to go grab thatpassion when we look especially
high school students, which iswhat we have in front of us if
(07:57):
you can hook them and find theirpassion, man, does that ever
make it interesting in theirhigh school?
If they don't have that,they're just going through the
motions and that's okay too, andmaybe their passion isn't in
the trades.
But for those that are, we arebringing more and more
(08:22):
opportunities for those studentsto be able to explore those
passions, hopefully get on atrack to get a career, and the
partnership that we have withSkills Canada, as well as with
the community college and yourassociation and other
associations in this, uh, in theskills workforce, is something
that's relatively new andexpanding, and we're really
excited about it.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
No, it is exciting and and at the end of the day,
the kids don't know what theydon't know, right.
So if you don't create someawareness about what's available
, it's not going to be on theirradar.
And it's like anybody with kids.
You know that the screens are aproblem, the TV is a problem.
I mean, when I was young it wasthe video games were a problem.
It's always something's aproblem, but what the problem
(09:02):
really is is that they're notdoing what they actually enjoy,
because when they're doingsomething that they enjoy,
screens are not a problemanymore.
They've forgotten how to ballit.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
I just had that conversation in the auto body
shop and they mentioned 14students that had come in and
they were told go observe andfigure out what you might want
to do.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Well, all of a sudden , they're all in the corner on
their phones.
Well, all of a sudden, they'reall in the corner on their
phones.
The next time they were in,they put them to work.
They figured out whether theyliked it or not, and a number of
them were passionately involvedin what was going on, so you
have to do it.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
You have to do it.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
You have to get your hands dirty if you will, and
I've been enjoying trying someof those trades myself.
So apparently I need a littlebit more work on hammering a
nail because I bent it but, I,was pretty good with the roofing
.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Now, you know, when we talk about passion, I always
find that that's a trickystatement because, as you know,
as we get older, passions shiftand I feel like that's something
that in the trades, is sovaluable.
Important to understand is thatthere's transferable skills
between all the trades that you.
There is nothing wrong, and infact myself being a dual red
(10:12):
seal, now you know, having mypassion shift mid-career was
kind of the best thing that everhappened to me.
So, you know, I see these youngkids and you said you know,
what am I going to be doing forthe rest of your life?
Don't worry about that.
You got a long life ahead ofyou.
Do what you enjoy now.
If you're in the trades, any ofthe skilled trades you're going
to have a job, you're going tomake good money, you're going to
(10:34):
have a pension, you're going tohave the benefits and all those
things.
And then you know 10, 15 years,the ability to change it up
Right, you know what I mean.
You can come teach, that'sright.
You can do all the differentthings that are out there and
that's okay and that's wonderfulabout the trades I went to
university.
Changing directions in academiais trying to turn a ship in the
(10:59):
dark Like it's a hard.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Unless you do it three weeks in.
I tried to be a dentist.
It didn't quite work out.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
I actually did about a full semester of computer
science because everyone told meto do computer science, because
it was that time, it was thattime and I was like about two
months into it I was like thisis really boring, like I can't
see myself doing this for therest of my life.
Now for yourself, you know,when you're looking at it within
your role, are you looking tosupport programs, create
(11:27):
programs?
You know what?
What is it that is kind of thefocus.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
So we've done a little bit of both.
Uh, the supporting the programsobviously is the easier part.
Uh, because they're alreadyestablished, they already have a
track record and you want to goand support those.
Our budgets recently have moneyfor consumables, for example.
Wow, we are supporting thetrades.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
We're putting trades back into some of the middle
schools that had lost it.
We have trades in all of thehigh schools, but we're
continuing to expand those aswell.
And then new partnerships.
We have the Centers ofexcellence here in New Brunswick
great partnerships.
We have the welding trailer,which was a great partnership
that we see the benefits of allthe time.
Uh, so we just want to keeppromoting and doing what is
(12:18):
working and, to your point,getting in on the cutting edge
of that new opportunity isreally important.
It is, yeah, it's a bit of arisk.
It's a bit innovative.
But what an opportunity.
So of course that brings up allkinds of things around
technology and AI Automation.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Absolutely, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
And we can't be afraid to jump in and just do it
cautiously, yeah, yeah yeah,figure out where you want to go
and where you don't.
Yeah, but that's what we'regrappling with in the education
world in Canada and around theworld.
So something your listenersprobably don't know we have
schools around the world thatdeliver our curriculum, so I get
(13:01):
to see some of those countriesand how they're responding to
some of these very things.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Yeah.
Uh, and and how, how, how theycan feed back on it and how it
works.
Yeah, absolutely All thesimilarities and the differences
, right Right Now, in terms ofthese collaborations.
You know, at the CWB, we areobviously always looking to to
support our own industry.
It's, it's, it's a battle ofself-preservation right.
(13:27):
We want more welders to enterthe workforce, because those
welders are what prop up oursociety in terms of the trade
and it's the cyclical nature.
One of the things that we'vebeen trying to do that has been
always something a hard battle,and I know it is within
provinces as well is gettingprivate industry to buy in,
getting private industry to bethat third partner or second
(13:48):
partner or fourth partner,whatever it is, and say you know
what?
you're the ones that need thetrades people At some point.
Is there a level ofresponsibility for you to invest
into perhaps some of theseprograms?
What's your thoughts on that?
Speaker 2 (14:02):
So we have a few different avenues that that can
happen.
So we have the Centers ofExcellence, which will actually
sign private sector partners,where there's either a monetary
component or doing some type ofinitiative with a number of
schools, or online, depending onwhat it is.
So we work with industry tofigure out how best to make that
(14:25):
work.
We also have lots ofopportunities where students are
, uh, going into the workplacethrough a co-op, for example, uh
, and we want more of thatbecause it's that hands-on
learning that we very muchpromote.
Uh, and there's a dual benefitthere.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Yeah, the companies basically get to cherry pick.
There is nothing wrong withthat, like I mean, that's why we
have NHL drafts.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
That's right.
You get to test drive the car.
That's right, yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Now, in terms of you know, the industry stepping up
out here in New Brunswick,something I've learned this week
which I've loved.
This is why I do these thingsin the communications, the
podcasts I'm having.
I guess, to back story it, I'mfrom the West right, I live in,
I grew up in, regina, westernindustry.
Okay, in the West we've alwayshad this false and I'll say it
(15:14):
now this false idea that thereisn't work in the Maritimes and
that the reason we have so manytravel cards and trades people
come from the Maritimes to theWest to work is because there
was none here.
And I'm learning now, and Ihave learned this week, that
that's erroneous.
That's not true.
There's tons of work.
I've been shown this weekcompanies building projects,
(15:38):
construction projects,manufacturing plants that are
booming.
I heard just the UA hassomething like 2 million man
hours ahead of them and it'slike wow, like I had no idea.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
So we're in St John.
There's lots of industry,there's lots of industry,
there's lots of jobs, there'slots going on.
We have the port.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
That has all kinds of the port is growing
exponentially here in St John Isaw that they're rebuilding a
part of it for cruise ships andstuff.
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
So certainly a falsehood.
There are opportunities here.
There are opportunities for NewBrunswick students to get jobs
in that area, to go to collegeand get their Red Seal.
There are opportunities forfolks around the country to come
to New Brunswick, and have weever seen a lot of that
happening?
Since the pandemic, ourpopulation has been increasing
(16:25):
exponentially.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
It means some pressure in the education system
, the hidden gem of Canada here,that's right.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
So I'd much prefer to manage growth than decline, and
we've been doing that.
And the more students we have,the more opportunities that we
can give them in some of theseareas, and it's been fantastic.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
And in terms of that growth.
You know, for example, thismorning I went and talked to the
students going into the weldingcompetition.
There was 15 students in theroom representing 14 different
high schools and I thought howis there even 14 high schools
with welding shops in NewBrunswick?
That's a lot for a smallprovince.
And then the one instructorsays, oh, there's probably 30.
(17:04):
Yeah, and I was like what theheck?
Like I mean out in the Westwe're so proud of our trades
programs and we should be like Imean we got great
apprenticeship programs, but Idon't think we got kind of that
kind of representation Likethat's magnificent.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
So each high school looks at what what they can
offer uh, either because ofequipment, because of space or
because of what the studentswould want to do Uh what the
students would want to do Uh,and in different parts of the
province they have uh their ownunique uh opportunity in the
skills trades Uh.
But yeah, welding is seen uhthroughout the province.
(17:36):
We've actually increased 276%of students taking welding in
six years.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
That's amazing and I I've been coming here for
conferences for a while.
I was in here for Skills Canadain 2019.
You know, I've been seeing kindof the growth of the Maritimes
as kind of an outsider and I'vereally been impressed with some
of the centers of excellence, asI was at the grand opening of
the Moncton one and yeah, I wasand it's blowing me away these
(18:04):
investments and they're multiplepartner investments right.
No one's doing it alone.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Right and I just want to mention.
You mentioned 15 students heretoday.
They come from 224 studentsregionally who competed in
welding Wow.
So what an opportunity, andI've heard a story of a student
whose high school was notoffering welding found an
opportunity with the privatesector and has been working with
(18:31):
that private sector partner andshe's here today.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
That's amazing.
So like we're talking highschool kids who got jobs already
laid out for them.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
That's wow.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Right, if you're good and you test drove that car,
you hire that person, right.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, this is a great time totake a quick break here and
we're going to slide into uhcommercials from our advertisers
and in the second half, when weget back, I want to talk about
the skills program itself herein new brunswick and how it's
grown it's really exploded inthe last few years and and the
tie-ins to the education systemhere so wonderful we'll be right
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And we are back here on the cwbassociation podcast.
My name is max ron and I'm herewith ryan donahue.
I hope I say that right, you do.
Yeah, I'm surprised aswesterners can say some weird.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
I've had lots, of uh, different interpretations of
that one.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
All right.
So before the break we werejust talking about the growth of
the welding programs and, Ithink, to skilled trades in
general out here in NewBrunswick.
In terms of skills, how's thatcorrelation been going with
skills Like?
Is it causation or correlation?
Did skills make it grow or didthe growth make skills grow?
Speaker 2 (21:10):
I'll let Courtney speak to that piece.
But certainly it is growing inboth sides of that, uh, that
equation.
What a great partnership.
Uh, the, actually theconsumables that are going to be
left over at this event aregoing to come back to the high
school.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
That's right.
I just had the, actually thehigh school teacher.
I met her.
She's like all these things arecoming to my school and I was
like awesome.
I think we'll try to move themaround just a little bit I think
she said the machines or someof the machines.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
But nonetheless the fact that there is that
partnership between skills andthe education system, between
the private sector and theassociations and the education
system.
What an opportunity to givesome of those experiences to the
students but also to createthat pipeline pardon the pun
into the skills trades.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
Well, speaking of pipeline, we've got one of the
biggest refineries in NorthAmerica right outside our window
here.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Yes, we do.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
And I come from a refinery town too, in Regina, so
I know the needs that just one,just one industry like that can
create.
There is hundreds of jobs onsite and thousands of jobs in
the periphery just to keep thatplant running right.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
And when you have things like that, you're not
even counting the pulp mills,the ocean travel, the marine
work, the maintenance.
Then you got the unions and theconstruction.
It's just seems like it's allgreen lights around here.
What an opportunity or what aplace to host a skills
competition but, in St John, newBrunswick.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Certainly we could do it in many of the communities
around the province.
But, as you say, having thatout the window, certainly it's
not hard to see that there areopportunities right here.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
Right Now I want to throw a hardball at one at you,
okay, sure.
So one of the things that comesup in education often in terms
of the trades and our future isthe changing dynamic of the
students themselves.
We're seeing a lot moreneurodivergence and
understanding of theneurodivergence and needs within
our students.
The different type ofaccommodations and needs that
(23:13):
the schools have created to helpour students get you know
through school and have asuccessful journey in high
school.
The trades have always been avery safe space for the
neurodivergent.
It's something that fits inwell.
If you want to hyper-focus weld, you know you want to work with
your hands.
We got the type of trades foryou Right, but how can you know
(23:33):
both ministries and privateindustries help after high
school into the college systems,into the workforce?
That's something that I feellike we're working on, but it's
going to be tricky and I thinkit's important that we get ahead
of that to see how we canaccommodate our workforce into
the future.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
So great question and it's something that we do
grapple with, but we are talkingwith the college all the time
about how we can support thosestudents.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Giving them the skills-based training, giving
them the pipeline into thecollege.
So part of our partnership isyou can do some of your your
hours and some of your coursesin high school.
What was the program called?
I just met the gentlemanSomething H.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
I apologize.
Yeah, we'll find it.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
The ability to do some of that and create that
pipeline into the communitycollege.
What an opportunity.
Absolutely, and it's a pipelinefor them, obviously yeah.
Uh, but a benefit for thatstudent which is what I care
about as the deputy of education.
Yeah, um, so the it's aboutfinding what that career path is
(24:48):
.
Uh, and we've changed actuallyin New Brunswick the way we the
the high school, so it's aboutfinding what that career path is
and we've changed actually inNew Brunswick the way we, the
high school philosophy, and weknow that that university path
that everybody was supposed tobe on in the 90s and 2000s isn't
for everybody.
There is a path into thecollege and skills trades.
The college, uh, and skillstrades world, yeah, and what a
(25:10):
growing opportunity that is herein the province of New
Brunswick.
Uh, we, we mentioned it in someof the numbers earlier.
Um and other uh outside of that.
Just learning those skills isgoing to be a benefit to you for
the rest of your life.
Yeah, on the daily, absolutelyso, uh, giving those
opportunities to thoseopportunities to those students
(25:31):
is something that I'm clearlypassionate about, and the
partnership that we have withSkills is just giving even more
opportunity to those students.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Well, and we've learned at the CWB over the last
few years.
We've really been tracking theopportunities to come into the
trades, succeed in the tradesand establish a life, a career
and then return to academiaperhaps at a later date, because
not all of us are ready foruniversity at 18.
And some of us maybe never wantto go, but some of us maybe do,
(26:00):
but later.
You know like, and I feel likeit's been too rigid of a system
for too long, where there needsto be that flexibility, that
educational mobility, let's say,to be able to go into a trade,
establish a career, then maybego try something else, but you
have those acquired skills thatare transferable to so many
things.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
And now universities have caught up a little bit,
where they'll give some creditfor that Absolutely yeah,
similarly a Red Seal that wantsto come teach in our system.
Who wants to get a BED?
That's possible now too.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
I just heard about that today, Cause in
Saskatchewan they have a similarprogram as well.
Um, because as a Red Sealwelder, I went to go teach at
the college but I didn't have abachelor's of education.
So it was like you know, but itwas a two year program.
It's not too late, Right?
No, no, you know, I think aboutit.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
I think about it.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
When I retire, I think I'll probably be one of
those people that goes touniversity forever.
There you go, because I thinkit'd be fun, but there are
opportunities to to not evenjust enter the trades but then
flourish through the trades intokind of any branch you want to
go down.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Right, right, the opportunities really are endless
.
They're throughout the countryas well.
It's not like you'repigeonholing yourself to
absolutely being in one place.
Right there are opportunitiesacross the country and
throughout the world.
That's yeah.
Some of my family members arein mines in Northern Ontario
right now.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
And living in New Brunswick, so what an
opportunity, and when theydecide that they want to be
closer to home, there'sopportunities right outside this
window.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
Yeah, I was talking to the students yesterday and I
said you know who here knowsabout the CWB and all they all
put their hands up.
It's like, yeah, you know,we're the codes people for the
work that you do.
And I said you realize, whenyou graduate college and you
have these CWB tickets and youhave this certificate, that you
can travel to over 80 countrieswith those certifications and
make money there's.
You know, if you want to gowork a year in Australia, you
(27:54):
can like I mean.
These kinds of opportunities arenot that we want anyone to
leave.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Of course not.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Go visit, come back.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
I'll gladly bring those from other provinces to
New Brunswick who don't don'twant them leaving New Brunswick,
though.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
But just that, that openness of openness of
possibilities.
And I mean when we're talkingabout skills, these students I
always want to call them kids,but they're I mean they're
students these students arealready putting their necks out
there.
They're already taking thatforward step of taking the risk.
I heard so many of the studentssay you know, I'm not here to
(28:28):
win or I'm not here to do, youalready won.
Right, you already walked inthe door.
What an experience they'regetting All the all the kids
that didn't try.
They're the ones that didn'tget anything out of it, but the
ones that tried it.
It's not a win or lose thing.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
And, and I think uh skills and and Courtney Donovan,
they're going which is thisthing's going to grow even more.
Yeah, the passion that we seefrom those students, the growth
that we've seen in the regionalcompetitions, the growth that
we've seen in each of theindividual trades.
We are on the cusp of havingsome really, really fun times at
(29:05):
skills competitions and some ofthese kids are going to
nationals.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Yeah, absolutely so.
What an opportunity.
I was already telling them,I'll see you in Regina.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
Because that's an experience for people to be a
part of, not just the tradethey're in but the community
that that trade has with it.
Because that's something thatthe trades have always been so
great about is they reallydevelop their own communities of
people and the networkingwithin them, the conferences,
the learning opportunities.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
you know, the professional learning abilities
it's never ending the number ofprevious competitors that are
here assisting.
Yeah, to just help mentor youcan see that mentorship, the
community that they've built.
Yeah, it's alive and well,right here.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
Yeah, now for for yourself.
What would you love to see interms of the skills growth you
know, aside from, of course, newBrunswick getting on all the
podiums and winning all the goldmedals?
Speaker 2 (30:00):
but Well, it's actually fun to even walk into
some of these classrooms andseeing the banners from previous
years.
We're in a community college,so we have some of those in the
high schools as well.
But certainly it's not justabout that.
It's about the experience thatthese students are getting.
They've, obviously they'reperfecting their craft and now
(30:22):
they get to come and testthemselves and push themselves.
So for me it's continuing togrow the opportunities for these
students, and then it's forthem to grab it.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Yeah, and I guess, and having the awareness of what
those opportunities are right,Because there always has to be a
little bit of a frontaleducation to you.
Can't just lay outopportunities, it doesn't mean
anything, right?
Speaker 2 (30:47):
And watching it isn't enough.
Yeah Right, you might get, youmight pique your interest, but
then you go off to other things.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
When you actually do it.
That's where their face lightsup and they might be hooked for
life.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
That's right, you never truly understand how much
you hate golf until you gogolfing.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
I might be a golfer, but yeah, I love golfing.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
I love, but you don't see them get mad.
That's right Now, in terms ofyou and your position as the
Deputy Minister of Education.
What can you do to supportskills and these type of
journeys?
Speaker 2 (31:22):
It was really important for me to be here.
I got the invite and it was anabsolutely I would Well you
can't say no to Courtney, goodluck.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
Well, that's true, uh , we weren't planning on being
in Atlantic Canada.
She called me and she saidyou're going to be here.
I said okay.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Well, fantastic, glad you're here, Glad I'm on your
podcast, uh, but yeah, uh, itit's about promoting it, it's
about securing funding andpartnerships for it, and that's
what I'm working on.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
Yeah, I mean we're a silver sponsor.
We are very proud to sponsorand actually like we have a big
soft spot in our hearts forMaritimes.
New Brunswick has been awonderful partner for the CWB.
Our curriculum is almost in allyour high schools.
That's right and and it'ssomething that we feel like I
said before it's aself-preservation of the
(32:10):
industry, because we don't wantthe welders to do a poor job and
have bad careers.
We want them to have greatcareers and make buckets of
money and have all thosewonderful things and we want
them to stay.
That's another thing, like wedon't want them to think that
they got to fly to another placeor leave the country in order
to make money and have a goodcareer.
It can be in your own backyardif you want it.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Yeah, and some of those students that are welding
right now are going to find jobsright here in New Brunswick
either for the summer if they'renot in grade 12 yet or going
through their apprenticeship.
So the partnerships that wehave with the private sector is
really invaluable in creatingthat opportunity.
So they get to try them out aswe talked about earlier, but,
(32:52):
more importantly, those studentsget that hands-on experience,
that real world experience.
It's not the same doing it inthe class as it is when you're,
when you're in the shop, andit's not as fun.
No, exactly.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
If you can't get hurt , it's not fun, right?
Speaker 2 (33:05):
Well, hopefully we don't have no injuries today.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
Okay, all right.
Last couple of questions.
You know there's a lot ofmoving parts, right, there's a
lot of moving parts to this.
There's economies that change.
There's, you know, trends thatchange.
We see lots of business comingin, but within that there's
always businesses going out Foryour position.
(33:32):
How do you keep your you know,finger on the wrist of trying to
evaluate what's going to be thenext thing that you need to be
mindful of.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
So certainly working with partners across the country
is very important.
We meet as deputy ministers ofeducation across the country.
We're also looking at thoseglobal trends.
It's not about what's happeningjust in our backyard, it's
knowing what are thoseopportunities for our students
coming in the future.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
So we don't want to have you can't sit on your hands
Right and we don't want to havehappen.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
What happened in the past, where you go, that's done.
Yeah that's right.
Well, that probably wasn't thebest decision and we need to
learn from that.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
So, while we'll continue to maneuver and we'll
have more or less of of certainthings, it's about making sure
that we give as manyopportunities to those students
as we can, based on where thosejob opportunities are and where
the passion of those studentsare.
So it's really a school byschool conversation.
(34:34):
Yeah, uh, as opposed, that's alot of conversations.
It's a lot of conversations, uh,but they, they have some
autonomy on what they deliver uh, at the local and district
level as opposed to at theprovincial level, and then at at
when we're looking globally, uh, it's about identifying those
trends, dipping our toe insometimes or going all in is the
(34:56):
conversation and the decisionthat needs to be made.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
And the relationship between Skills New Brunswick and
the education department.
You know how does that workhere.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
So I will give a very tangible example actually.
So we're a smaller province.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
So that allows us to be quite nimble and it allows us
to have some pretty goodrelationships with our partners.
So one day Courtney was in myoffice and mentioned that this
event is usually held on theweekend and because it's held on
the weekend, try a trade theschool's coming in you kind of
(35:34):
lose that opportunity Just downthe street.
I had just finished meetingwith the four superintendents
and I said, well, why don't wetalk to them about potentially
changing that?
So we drove down the street ona snowy day, met with the four
superintendents that I hauledout of a meeting.
And here we are on a Thursday.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
On a Thursday, yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
With buildings full of students.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
Yeah, full houses all around, yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
So our partnership, our relationship is very strong
and that's kudos to theleadership on the ground, the
foresight and the vision to growthis, and we're seeing it right
in front of us?
Speaker 1 (36:14):
Yeah, that's right.
And last question I know yougot a very, very busy day, I
guess, from our point of view.
Now me asking, as a sponsor, asupporter, a funder to many of
the programs in this province,what is it that we can do better
?
What is it that the provincewould ask of us in general, the
(36:36):
people that you're looking toseek to ask for funding to, to
make the partnerships?
You know what's, what's thepitch to us that we can do
better or we can bring in foryou?
Speaker 2 (36:46):
So, firstly, thank you.
Without the partnerships wedon't have these events.
Without the partnerships wedon't have all the opportunities
that we have in our school.
So a huge thank you to yourassociation, as well as all of
the skills, trades associationsand private sector partners that
we have.
I won't go down the listbecause I'll miss somebody, so I
can't possibly do that, but ahuge thank you.
(37:08):
I can't possibly do that, but ahuge thank you.
As far as what you can do,you're on the cutting edge.
You know what is next.
So being able to have thoseconversations so that we don't
miss out on an opportunity.
But of course, I always wantmore opportunities in what we're
doing right now.
I want to grow what we're doingright now.
So anyone who has dipped theirtoe in with our centers of
(37:30):
excellence or or ourpartnerships, let's go all in,
uh and happy to have thoseconversations.
Speaker 1 (37:37):
No, I love that, and it is.
It is true, like we collect somuch data.
Right, we got our fingerprinton over 60,000 welders across
this country, and you know.
Then the next question is whatdo you do with the data?
Speaker 2 (37:49):
Right, it's got to go somewhere so many of our
organizations are so data richyeah and analysis poor.
Yeah, so we need to startanalyzing that data and figuring
out what's next.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
That's exactly what we're trying to do now and these
partnerships actually help us,I guess.
Put a face to the data saying,you know, like these are the
trends, and then you have, youknow, hundreds, hundreds of
students coming through.
This data is relative andimportant to them because that's
their future, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
Right and the the.
The future is now for thesestudents who are here competing,
and I want to wish them allluck as they, as they finish off
this afternoon.
They're going to be up on thepodium and some of them are
going to join you in, regina.
Yeah, I can't wait.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
It's going to join you in, regina.
Yeah, I can't wait.
It's going to be a good time.
I promise to host them.
Well, excellent, all right.
Well, thank you so much.
Is there anything you'd like tosay in terms of, perhaps, how
people can get information aboutwhat's going on in New
Brunswick?
This is listened to around theworld.
There's anything you'd like topromote?
Speaker 2 (38:43):
Absolutely so, thanks .
Thanks for the opportunity toparticipate on your podcast.
Skills Canada I'll make theplug for them and Skills New
Brunswick.
But our Centers of Excellencehere in New Brunswick, it's a
model that's really interestingto a lot of jurisdictions and we
have a world-class educationsystem right here in New
(39:04):
Brunswick.
It's recognized in so manycountries.
There's so many amazing thingshappening in our schools.
It's not all roses.
I don't want to pretend that.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
But the work that these students that are in this
building today have put intomastering their craft is because
of the teachers and mentors andthose who came before them, and
I just want to thank everyone.
It's an absolute pleasure forme, an honor for me, to be a
participant of the teachers andmentors and those who came
before them, and I just want tothank everyone.
Speaker 1 (39:37):
It's an absolute pleasure for me, an honour for
me to be a participant in thisevent today.
Speaker 2 (39:39):
That's awesome.
Thank you so much for comingtoday.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
Appreciate it All right, and for all the people
that have been following thepodcast, thanks so much.
We are not done here inAtlantic Canada.
I got a couple more comingtoday, so make sure you check
them all, because there has beenso many wonderful lessons
learned about what's happeningout here in New Brunswick and
the wonderful things that arehappening in the maritime.
So check out this podcast,check out the rest of them from
this series, and I'll catch youat the next one.
(40:01):
We hope you enjoy the show.
Speaker 3 (40:15):
Do you own a company in the welding industry or want
to share a targeted message withour listeners?
Then this 45-second audio adspace could be yours.
We have the coolest listenersfrom all over the world, with
over 60,000 downloads, and 88%are from North America.
This podcast serves to educateand connect the welding
(40:39):
community together and isavailable on all major platforms
, including the CWB GroupNetwork.
If you are interested, reachout to info at cwbassociationorg
.
Look at that.
I just gave you all of thatinformation in only 45 seconds.
You've been listening to theCWB Association Welding Podcast
and if you enjoyed what youheard today or want to send us
(40:59):
some questions to answer, youcan text the show using the link
in the episode descriptionbelow.
We can't wait to hear from you.
Please subscribe or visit us atcwbassociationorg to learn more
.
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