Episode 227 with Andrew Clarke and Max Ceron

The CWB Association had the privilege to attend the Skills Canada New Brunswick Provincial Competition in Saint John, NB. Join us as we bring you special episodes recorded in person to advocate for careers in skilled trades and technology across the country.

Today's guest, Andrew Clarke, Department Head for Skilled Trades at Harbour View High School in New Brunswick, reveals the hidden challenges and triumphs of preparing the next generation of welders and metalworkers. With no formal trades background but a lifetime of hands-on experience, Andrew represents the reality of trades education in many Canadian schools – dedicated teachers learning alongside their students while building programs that inspire young people to consider welding as a viable career path.

Check out: https://www.skillscanadanb.com/

Thank you to our Podcast Advertisers:
Canada Welding Supply: https://canadaweldingsupply.ca/
Canaweld: https://canaweld.com/
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There is no better time to be a member! The CWB Association membership is new, improved and focused on you. We offer a FREE membership with a full suite of benefits to build your career, stay informed, and support the Canadian welding industry.  https://www.cwbgroup.org/association/become-a-member 

What did you think about this episode? Send a text message to the show!

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
All right, I can check.
Check, I'm good.
So I'm Max Duran.
Max Duran, cwb AssociationWelding Podcast pod pod podcast.
Today we have a really coolguest welding podcast.
The show is about to begin.

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Happy welding.
Hello and welcome to anotheredition of the cWB Association
podcast.

(01:05):
My name is Max Duran and we arehere in beautiful and sunny
today.
New Brunswick, st John, is thecity we're in and we've been
having so much fun all week herewith Skills Atlantic.
These competitions are so muchfun.
It's part of our job at CWB tosupport, but it's probably one

(01:26):
of the best parts of our jobs isto be here supporting the
students, and today's studentsare going to be all from high
schools, so secondary students.
My guest today is Andrew Clark,who is a skilled trades teacher
for the Harborview High Schoolout here and we've talked many
times before.
We've known each other for abit now.
Andrew, welcome to the show.
Thanks for having me.
It's great to be here.
Yeah, so you said you listen tothe show.
Thanks for having me, it'sgreat to be here.

Speaker 3 (01:46):
Yeah, so you said you listen to the show, do you
really?
Yep, actually, I have nextweek's episode, last week's
episode, queued up on my nextpodcast.
Oh well, thank you very much.

Speaker 1 (01:53):
I appreciate it.
I do wonder if I have more thanone or two listeners.

Speaker 3 (01:57):
Oh, you got lots, you got lots.

Speaker 1 (01:59):
So tell me a little bit about your position.
What do you do here?
Uh like, at first for the highschool for high school.

Speaker 3 (02:05):
Uh, currently I am the SPR, which is the department
head for the skilled trades,skilled trades, technology and
arts, or the tech department, soI have all the creatives, which
is fantastic, I think.
Yeah, that sounds wonderful, ohit's, I've got the best job.
I get paid to play with powertools, paid to play with fire.

Speaker 1 (02:25):
Yeah, now your high school.
What size is it Like?
Is it a?
Is it a big school for yourarea, for?

Speaker 3 (02:30):
our area, I would say we're one of the bigger ones.
Now we're about 1100 students.

Speaker 1 (02:34):
Oh wow, that's a big high school yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:36):
I think it's a great size.

Speaker 1 (02:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:37):
Because it's big enough that we can offer all
kinds of programs to all kindsof students, and our school
motto is invent yourself here.
So the kids have a chance toreally.
Oh, I might be an AP psychtoday in this class, but this
afternoon I'm going to be inwelding Right, or I might be in
cabinet making, or you get tohave a little bit of taste of
everything.

Speaker 1 (02:56):
When you're too small , you kind of miss out on
funding too.
Oh yeah, right.

Speaker 3 (03:00):
Yeah, and well, sometimes funding's the issue,
but especially in New Brunswick,where we have smaller schools
here, right, so it's justpopulation We've got.
The size of the province isless than Edmonton, so it's like
you can't have the same fundingfor a province like that.
But we do some pretty coolstuff and I think, personally I

(03:21):
think we have one of the betterprograms around.
But that's just me.
Yeah, well, I mean, it's yourbaby, right, it's your baby.

Speaker 1 (03:27):
It's my baby.
So you know for yourself andfor the people listening.
How do you as a teacher becauseyou probably went to college
and education, Yep, how did youend up being in charge of this
type of work?
Because this is kind of adisconnect that we see across
Canada which I think you'vebridged well, but many teachers
struggle with, you know, being ateacher and getting put into

(03:49):
trades programs.

Speaker 3 (03:50):
Well, for me, my when I started teaching way back 20
years ago, my first long-termsupply was actually a social
studies class.
Okay, I'm actually socialstudies trained, as my ed degree
says.
Okay, you can't get a techteacher degree.

Speaker 1 (04:07):
No, it's not a thing Other than BC, I think.
I think.

Speaker 3 (04:09):
BC is the only place, which I think it's fantastic,
but every place needs it,because we need tech teachers.
Yeah, that's right, right, andto me it's I learned from skill
from growing up yeah, I had ahammer in my hand, like in your
family.
Yeah, from growing up.

Speaker 1 (04:21):
Yeah, I had a hammer in my hand, like in your family.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (04:23):
I had a hammer in my hand at four years old.

Speaker 1 (04:25):
Yeah, driving nails.
Yeah Right, do you have family?
That was, oh yeah, like in thetrades.

Speaker 3 (04:31):
My grandfather was a carpenter.
He retired as buildinginspector from the city of
Calgary.

Speaker 1 (04:36):
Okay, eons ago.

Speaker 3 (04:38):
Yeah, like he went up to the trades there.
Uh, my grandfather was inagriculture, my uncles multiple
uncles in trades.
Yeah, uh, uncles and cousinswelding, uh, commercial
refrigeration, things like that.

Speaker 1 (04:51):
So, so a little bit of everything around.
Oh yeah, so around the suppertable it was talking about, you
know, work and what's going onand at Masters Red Seal, same
thing.

Speaker 3 (05:02):
We didn't care.

Speaker 1 (05:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (05:03):
You got education you were smart yeah you're smart,
so me it's like I got me.
Yeah, so I went in my summerjobs working in the trades.
Yeah, I came back fromuniversity with more money in my
summer jobs than my classmateshad all year I was like guys
come on yeah, what are you doing?

Speaker 1 (05:22):
yeah, like I'm, and.

Speaker 3 (05:24):
I've got saleable skills.

Speaker 1 (05:26):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (05:26):
So I can go out and I can find work, no matter what
so?

Speaker 1 (05:29):
you go to university to get your degree.
You're majoring in a socialscience world.
You get out to the schooldistrict.
You know, as a young teacher,you're going to take whatever
job comes up.
Really Right, you get out there.
My up, really right, you getout there.
My daughter's a teacher.
I've seen the process.
And then you know, someone tapsyou on the shoulder and said,
hey, what about these programs?

Speaker 3 (05:50):
Well, for me, like when I had that social studies
job, it was like two monthsbecause the guy, the gentleman,
had a heart attack and had toretire.

Speaker 1 (05:57):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (05:58):
Not a big deal.

Speaker 1 (06:00):
Like the long retirement type of heart attack.
Well, no, no.

Speaker 3 (06:03):
Fortunately not, but it was like the long sleep.
It wasn't the long sleep, butit was.
Like you know, it's time toyeah, to pull off, time to back
off, because the next one willkill them.

Speaker 2 (06:13):
Yeah, yeah, no worries.

Speaker 3 (06:14):
And then I spent another year supplying and the
shop teacher in the junior highwas teaching.
I was supplying, I was retiring.
I said you'd be really good atthis because you already have
these skills and things likethat.

Speaker 2 (06:25):
You're comfortable with it?
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (06:27):
And we've seen you what you can do with the things
and we've seen what you can dowith your hands.
So I went okay, so I got thisjob.
He went are you retired?
And I was like, because nobodyelse had applied, I went well,
do I really want to do that?

Speaker 1 (06:40):
I was like but I don't feel like it's a big
stretch to get from the socialsciences to the trades.

Speaker 3 (06:45):
No, and for me, though, also the same time, I
was also a coach.
Yeah, I was coaching swimming,Right, so I coached swimming at
every level for 24 years beforeI retired, and it was like going
to the skilled trades to teachthe skills.

Speaker 1 (06:59):
Yeah, it's just like coaching.
Yeah, like coaching.
Yeah it is.
So it was a real short bridge.
The dynamics between sports andthe steel trades are very, very
similar.

Speaker 3 (07:09):
It comes up on the podcast a lot, yeah, and for me,
it's like having thatbackground really made teaching,
made me a better teacher.

Speaker 1 (07:17):
Yeah, so, and then getting in is like, how is it in
terms of support for you?
You know, cause, like you're,you're, you're in a position
where you understand the tools,you get it.
Yeah, the guy says he's goingto retire.
You kind of come in, they havebooks of curriculum for you and
it's go.

Speaker 3 (07:35):
When he retired, it was bye Right.

Speaker 1 (07:38):
So like how, how were you supported into that
transition and do you think?

Speaker 3 (07:45):
He helped a little bit with some things said yeah
that's what you do, things likethat, and we went through some
things and then he left and itwas my show and I went.
Okay, I was fortunate becauseat that time I was actually in
alberta, because I'm actuallyfrom alberta originally and I
was.
They had some pd sessionsoffered through their summer
programs.
I did that, yeah, and everytime that came I would always do
something like that.
It's any, any PD I could alwaysfind.

(08:06):
I always chased yeah.
Anything skills-based, I alwayschased yeah.
So started there and then Iactually moved to a high school.
Yeah, in a different communityand spent five years there yeah,
five years.
Really enjoyed it and met mywife, who's from here.
Okay, that's what happened.
I met my wife who was from here.
We actually met at a weddingthere and it was like our

(08:30):
relationship started off.
I'm like, well, I've got 10minutes.
I got to get back to school.
Yeah 90 minutes later it's likeoh, I really got to get back.

Speaker 1 (08:38):
It was the day before school started.

Speaker 3 (08:51):
So that's how it started.
And then we got married and wewent there for a year and
realized partway through theyear we just looked at her we
had some family things that comeup.
I'm like you know what, honey,let's go back east, let's go
back east, I can make a go, nomatter what.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (09:02):
And just yeah, family things we just had to get home
for and not a big deal.
So that's interesting becauseyou got kind of the tale of two
provinces then in terms of yourhistory, what would be, I guess
your you know your biggestdifferences, you see, between
the what you experienced for theeducation system in alberta
versus here.
You know there is a lot ofconversation in the atlantic
provinces of the west versuseast kind of thing, right, and

(09:22):
as a wner we are woefullyignorant of what happens in the
East, right.
I'm trying to help bridge thatbecause I think there's untapped
resources out here.

Speaker 3 (09:33):
Yeah it's amazing resources out here Of all kinds,
yeah.

Speaker 1 (09:36):
So what was your perspective with that?

Speaker 3 (09:38):
Well, when I first got here I was a bit arrogant, a
bit cocky and things like thatA burden.
Okay.

Speaker 2 (09:45):
I will own that one.
Yeah, I will own that one.

Speaker 3 (09:48):
I'll own that one.
I'll take it.
And what I realized is here inthe Maritimes is these social
structures are much betterdeveloped for society and to
help support everything thanthey are out West.
It's much more feast and famineout West.
Yes, yeah For society and tohelp support everything.
Yeah, then they are out West.

Speaker 1 (10:06):
It's much more feast and famine out West.

Speaker 3 (10:07):
Yes, yeah, and when it's feast, it's me, me, me, me
me when it's famine.
It's like help, help, help,help help, yeah, we're here it's
.

Speaker 1 (10:16):
Community.

Speaker 3 (10:23):
It's community and, yes, may not grow as fast, but
we're always growing.
Yeah, and for me, when I movedhere, I went this is a land of
opportunity and it truly is LikeI moved here without a job.

Speaker 1 (10:34):
Yeah, Well, and that's a.
That's one of the barriers thatI've been talking about all
week is this idea that we havein the west that there's no work
out here oh, there's tons ofwork because from our
perspective it's we get the eastcoasters coming in for
shutdowns, coming in in thesummer to work, and we have this
thought that, oh, they mustcome out because there's no work
out no no, there's work, andthat's not the thing.

(10:55):
What I've learned over the lastcouple days of interviewing
people here in saint, in saintjohn, is that there's lots of
work out here.
It just maybe they could makeuh, more.
Yeah, and it was just a.
You know, there's lots of workout here, it's just maybe they
could make more, yeah.
And it was just you knowthere's opportunities to perhaps
make a higher wage for a periodof time out west, but that's it
.
It's not because there isn'tsomething here.

Speaker 3 (11:13):
You make it the higher wage, but the cost of
living.

Speaker 1 (11:15):
Oh yes.

Speaker 3 (11:16):
That's the other thing that because when I was
out west and we were moving backhere, I had sold.
I had a mini home they call ita mobile home.
Right yeah, it was on privateproperty but for what I sold it
for was more than the value ofthe house I'm in now, which is
on two acres.
Now the value of my house has,of course, gone up, but it's
like at the time.

Speaker 2 (11:34):
it was like how is this so cheap Like?

Speaker 3 (11:37):
what I could buy here was like it was a mini home
there, but I could buy it a twostory on three acres here for
the same price.
I was like what?

Speaker 1 (11:46):
Well, I've been looking at house prices around
here lately.
You know cause, as I get closerto retirement, it's like where
would I like to have a place inCanada, you know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (11:55):
Like the.
Well, you know what I'll saythis the winter's here, I'll
take any time Might have alittle bit of shoveling, but big
deal, oh, compared to what Igot in Regina, you know minus 50
.
Oh yeah, like I don't think youguys get that Well everybody,
the locals, the ones who are notfamiliar with the prairie cold
yeah, Like the Arctic cold.

(12:16):
Oh, it's cold, it's cold.
That's only a minus 20.
Yeah, what are you talkingabout?
I don't have my winter coat onyet.

Speaker 1 (12:25):
I'm still in my fall coat, come on, yeah, so when you
got out here, right, you got ajob and did you go immediately
into supporting the trades ineducation here, or did you kind
of have to start all over?

Speaker 3 (12:37):
When I, when I got here, like I literally came here
, I had a job interview here andI didn't get the job, for it
was a skills trade teacher, okayI didn't get the job somebody
else got and I I've met the guysince and he's he's a great guy
to.
Yeah, I've had lots of dealingswith him, he's a great guy.
But, um, for me it was like Icame here I ended up with no job
.
So I was like, what do I do?
Yeah, well, I got on the supplylist.
Took a little bit to get onthere and then I spent a few

(13:00):
years doing that, but at thetime I was also working in the
trades.
Yeah, I got a skillset.
Yeah, why not use it?
So I was renovating houses,building decks, doing things,
getting paychecks.
You know, making money, yeah,and also coaching.
And I showed up and I walkedinto a job yeah, coaching.
I was just like oh, coaches arealways needed You're looking.
We were looking for a coach.

(13:21):
Yeah, man timing.

Speaker 1 (13:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (13:23):
Do you have time for an interview, like, are you guys
looking for a coach?
He said you got half an hour,yeah.
Okay, yeah yeah, so that wasgood.
But then I really got into theteaching stuff and I was able to
get a.
I actually started on a matleave here.
Okay, yeah, because you're inautomotive.

Speaker 1 (13:41):
Oh automotive, cool Automotive.
So you're sliding right into,like I went from woodworking
yeah To automotive.

Speaker 3 (13:47):
I had some background in automotive already, so it
was good because I'd done someof that Enough to not hurt
yourself.

Speaker 2 (13:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (13:52):
Well, but I had done enough experience either on the
farm.

Speaker 1 (13:59):
Right.

Speaker 3 (14:00):
Teaching it out somebody, and they couldn't find
anybody.
Of course, everybody's alwayslooking for a red seal.
Unfortunately, I don't have one.
I'd love to get one, and I'mI'm still working towards it.
You're trying to wheel and dealtowards one.
Well, no, I don't want to putwork in.
Yeah.
I have no issue putting the workin and things like that, but
same time as I'm always wantingto learn and grow my skill,
because if I can get betterskills, it benefits the students

(14:23):
, right, right.
So how can I do that?
So that's what I did.
I did the automotive thing andthey came up with a welding PL.
They're just starting to pushthe welding with the foundation,
With the foundation yeah, withthe foundation and it was
fantastic, the school I was inactually got the first lab from
the foundation menu there, niceand.
I was like or one of the firstlabs and from the foundation

(14:45):
menu there, Nice, and I was likeor one of the first labs, and I
was like nice, I got in there,you got a feel for it a bit and
they did some more PL over thesummer.
Professional learning for thosenon-new friends, workers.

Speaker 1 (14:51):
Yeah, pd everywhere else, pd everywhere else.

Speaker 3 (14:54):
Yeah, yeah.
So I got in that and I justdove in headfirst.
When I, after that year, was up, I literally went from that
school.
It ended on the Monday in themiddle of January end of.
January, yeah, and the semesterstarted, the next semester at
Harborview.
Okay, and Like with the weldingprogram, or Actually that was a

(15:15):
semester they were putting inthe welding program, and at that
point I had a couple yeah.

Speaker 1 (15:19):
Pack tickets.
Right yeah, Just the basic Keyclass.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (15:23):
Just the basic Key class.
Yeah, yeah, no one mig onestick.

Speaker 1 (15:25):
Yeah, but you know the process, yeah, I knew the
process, I knew what it was.

Speaker 3 (15:29):
I kept always doing the things to improve it and
they needed somebody.
I could do it and I was alwayschasing it.
I was growing it and I've justkept going and now we've got a
whole, we've got a brand newbooth there.
Like I walked in there we hadnothing and that was 2017.
And when I came there as afoundation I can't remember her

(15:51):
name, for the foundation at thatpoint Retired.

Speaker 1 (15:53):
Oh, deb Deb, yeah, deb Ramites yeah.

Speaker 3 (15:56):
She showed up there with the provincial guy there
and we had literally we weren'teven turned the machines on yet.
She said we've got a conferencecoming up here.

Speaker 2 (16:09):
We can get you on the list.
We can go.
I went fantastic.

Speaker 1 (16:10):
And that was Winnipeg that year.
Oh yeah, that was a good year,yeah that was a good year.

Speaker 3 (16:13):
I remember you were talking about your trip to Ghana
.
Yeah, and I was like that was,and after that I'd gone to, and
even the virtual ones, I waslike never miss them again,
cause I always walked out withsomething I could use the next
day.
Yeah, I could use the nextmonth, I could use the next year
.
So those, those have beenfantastic.

Speaker 1 (16:29):
Yeah, no, they.
They're a lot of fun to put onand I used to love attending
yeah yeah Before, so you knowyeah no, it's, it's been fun.
And it's grow and grow and growthe program and grow what my
skill base is, because if I canget better right, the kids are

(16:49):
going to get better.
Well, and that's some of thethings that are happening now
that we're seeing across thecountry is that there's kind of
a understanding that, in orderto teach the trades, it's not
just as easy as hey, this isyour assignment tomorrow, it's
there needs to be somebackground there.

Speaker 3 (17:00):
Yeah, yeah like me and the other full-time.
Well, we have two and a halfpositions at the school right
now of skilled trades teachers.
None of us have a red seal, butwe're always looking at what
can we do to improve our skillsover, and we're always growing
the programs because the kidshave the interest.
We want more, yeah, and we'respending long hours Like

(17:23):
learning ourselves, learningourselves and things like that.

Speaker 1 (17:25):
We want more, yeah, yeah, and we're spending long
hours like I'm not Learningyourself, learning ourselves and
things like that.

Speaker 3 (17:28):
But, like even my, the school culture, though, is
kind of cool.
In my school is 5 o'clock on aFriday, half the staff are still
there.

Speaker 1 (17:36):
We're sticking around , yeah.

Speaker 3 (17:38):
We got a staff of 60 teachers.
Yeah yeah, so like that's a lot.
Yeah, we're 65 teachers andstuff like that, but like half
the staff is still there on aFriday at five o'clock.
What's that say?

Speaker 1 (17:47):
That's wild, right we're.
I remember my kids when theywere in school.
It was like three o'clock on aFriday.
It was a desert, yeah.
Right, but no, it teachers evenyeah, we're off doing sports or
other activities for the school,so so for me, harbourview has
been a fantastic fit now, inyour opinion, like you know with

(18:10):
your experience, if you couldput it in a box, how or what
would an instructor need to knowthat is getting put into a
similar position?
A teacher in a in a high schoolthat they're like you're gonna
be the shop teacher nextsemester.
You know they may not have thecomfort with tools, they may not
have the background like youdid, and I'm sure this happens

(18:30):
all the time it does.
Right.
So how?
How do we support or how canthey be supported?

Speaker 3 (18:40):
Well, what I think should really happen is they
should almost have a hybridbridging time with somebody who
is a good model, right Right,right.
Who's good with the?

Speaker 1 (18:47):
tools.
A mentor, a mentor, yeah.

Speaker 3 (18:49):
And maybe they're teaching one class by themselves
or teaching a class together,co-teaching, or something like
that, mm-hmm.
So they can see theorganization, so they see the
classroom management, they cansee what you have to do.

Speaker 1 (19:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (19:00):
To be evolving the things so you can do that and
totally spread them out, kind oflike how well, when teachers go
through the program, we do aplacement.
Yeah yeah, skilled trades needtheir own placement, almost,
yeah, like a separate placementplan, a separate placement plan.
We've done, they've been tryingsome different things here in
the province and I think they'vebeen pretty successful.
Yeah, I've been.

(19:20):
I've what I've seen from themand what we've done with the
participation of it.
Those teachers, I think, havebeen good.
But it's also then, what's thatnext step?
Right, and it's also thatcontinuous contact, things like
that, and I've always tried nowwith me, cause I've been here
long enough and I've gotteachers who I'm always reaching
out or they're reaching out tome.
I was like you know what, what,what are you doing?

(19:41):
This?
The network, you know what,what are?
you doing this, the network, thenetworking, and how do you keep
that networking going with thethings and with the other
teachers and the newer teacherscoming up Right, and it's I
always try to make myselfavailable to, and it doesn't
have to be my school, it's theother schools too.
It's how can you reach out andjust keep that contact going,
right, so how do you work out inthis situation where you do
things like this or I'm havingthis issues?

(20:03):
yeah right, this is what myexperience is yeah may or may
not be good, but there'sprobably lots.
That crosses over everywhere,right, and and it doesn't have
to be specific to just welding,because, fortunately for me, I,
I get to teach welding, yeah,and I'm also teaching machining.
So it's like so you get a fewflavors in there.

Speaker 1 (20:20):
Yeah, I got a few flavors in there.

Speaker 3 (20:21):
I get to mix things up so but I've also done the
cabinet making stuff before inprevious lives in construction
buildings.
So it's like so if we havequestions we can go back and
forth, or if we can't go, maybetalk to this person or we can
make those connections.

Speaker 1 (20:36):
Yeah, I remember when I was teaching at the college
we'd get together for CanWeld,edcons and stuff like that, and
one of the things that I oftenheard was a theme that there
just isn't the funding in highschool, you know, for, like for
the college.
We got, you know, a milliondollars to run you know for for

(20:56):
120 students and and the steeljust rolls in and the gases are
just full and the filler metalsare coming in when they're
needed and uh, uh.
And also when you hire a newinstructor, we could fully
support.
Yeah, where it's like, like yousaid, like co-teaching, like
there's a long training inprocess of teaching all the
equipment, teaching thecurriculum before you hand it

(21:18):
off.

Speaker 3 (21:18):
That overlap is extremely expensive from a, from
a taxpayer point of view it is,and that's something which
that's why I give up my ownvolunteer time after hours,
things like that, or I'll havethe I don't mind coming in after
hours to work with thoseteachers.

Speaker 1 (21:33):
But if only the money was there.

Speaker 3 (21:35):
It'd be nice if the money was there, but at the same
time it's and I always talk tomy principals about this- it
says if you want a qualityprogram, it's going to cost
Right, right, and if you'rebudgeting us $3,000, I can go
through that in a week.

Speaker 1 (21:49):
Yeah, I went to a high school and they said they
had a $1,200 budget for thesemester.
Yeah, I was like what are youteaching them?
Yeah, like that's four platesof 14 gauge.
So I was like how do you, howdo you get creative with the
usage of things like that?

Speaker 3 (22:02):
and it's like you know what it you find ways, we
find ways we do have a.
What we do at the school is wedo some different.
Actually, the advanced kids Ihave is I actually have them do
the skills national projectsright or their capstone project
so they at the end they get totake that home, they get to
practice that out yeah, theypractice it they get to do it
and that's your final's like.

(22:23):
But then they go well, and Ialso get them to price it out,
yeah, of how much steel it is,and just for the steel alone,
yeah, oh, so I pay this muchmoney First semester.
I get gloves and I get someother.

Speaker 1 (22:34):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:35):
Some PPE.

Speaker 3 (22:38):
Yeah, they get to keep that stuff, but then they
also get to keep this project atthe end and like Worth a couple
hundred bucks.
The steel alone is like ahundred dollars.

Speaker 1 (22:46):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (22:47):
And they, but they already got gloves and some
other things and then the hoursthey put into it.
Yeah, yeah, and that's notincluding the consumables Right,
and they go.
Oh yeah, I don't mind payingthis fee.

Speaker 1 (22:58):
Because I'm getting so much extra.
Right, All right.
So you know you're working withthe program, You're teaching
the kids.
What evolution have you seennow?
You said 20 years you've beenin the game.
Yeah 19 years since I graduateduniversity.
So, howard, what have you seenin changes, you know, even just
specifically here, since you'vegotten to the East Coast in

(23:19):
curriculum in the way the tradesare being taught.
The East Coast in curriculum inthe way the trades are being
taught.

Speaker 3 (23:23):
I we're in New Brunswick.
We've been in the midst of acurriculum refresh, which has
been needed since some of ourcurriculum has been 20 or 30
years old.
Ouch yeah, I'm sorry but we'vegot.

Speaker 1 (23:38):
my eldest stepson is younger than some of the
curriculum I'm teaching.
It's like If the person thatwrote the textbook doesn't live
anymore, maybe we need a newtextbook.

Speaker 3 (23:46):
Yeah, it's like come on, so the I will.
The province has been reallygood about refreshing the
curriculum in the last 10 years,which has been great and it's
really helped reinvigorate thestudents Like our.
Our programs are running atcapacity.
We have waiting lists for ourprograms in the schools and a
lot of the other schools I'mhearing is we're in the same

(24:07):
situation.
Now, right, because that's good, right, that's what we want.

Speaker 1 (24:11):
That's right, right, that's the dream, everyone's
wait list.
I mean it's not great for thestudents on the wait list, but
it means it's healthy.

Speaker 3 (24:19):
We need teachers, though now, so now we've got
that cart and horse issue andthat's the issue.
And we want to get good qualityteachers.
Yes, the ideal would be to havea red seal, but why are the red
seals going to?
And in New Brunswick especially?
They have to go back to school.
They have to get an ed degree,which means they have to get an
undergrad degree.

Speaker 1 (24:36):
You guys can't do an ed certificate out here.
It has to be a degree, ouch.

Speaker 3 (24:45):
Yeah, degree, ouch, yeah, so it's out west, you
asserts all you need to.
Well, yeah, like for me, I wentto the u of a and at the u of a
, if you had a red seal, it waslike a two-year after ed program
you get your teaching, yeah,teaching degree.
So anybody who's come to mehere and said, listen, I got my
red seal but five years.
I can't afford that yeah, forsure, right to take a pay cut
like no I'm not gonna go on theyeah.

Speaker 1 (25:01):
In Saskatchewan I went to teach with my Red Seal
and they put me through atwo-year program while I was
working to get my but I wasallowed to work as long as I
maintain progress in this course.
And then you get to, you know,and it's like so what can we do
to help grow their programs?

Speaker 3 (25:15):
And I was like well, so if they've come to go to the.
U of A.
Yeah Right, if you can't.
There's not many options here,but this is what you can do.
Yeah, that'd be tough.
They have had some programs inthe past before my time where
they've had some sort ofbridging program and I think

(25:36):
there's been some talk about itcoming back, but it still needs
to happen.
But at the same time, we alsohave to have those right
individuals.
Because, you get those Red Sealswho are burnt out, right?
We don't want them.

Speaker 1 (25:50):
Or they're on the way out and they don't care.

Speaker 3 (25:52):
They've already checked out.
They're on the way out.
We don't want them because, asmuch as they may want to teach,
thinking it's a backup, it'slike no, you don't have that
energy, you don't have thatfocus.

Speaker 1 (26:01):
It's no, you don't have that energy, you don't have
that focus.
It's a whole nother vibe likeyeah, when I started teaching, I
remember the program head, whenhe was interviewing me, was
saying you don't come to teachfor the money no you don't come
to teach, you know for for anylike yeah, you come for the
lifestyle, because teaching is alifestyle, it's something that
you take home with you.
You become in, you becomeemotionally invested with the

(26:22):
kids, like these things happenand if you're not ready for the
whole day, don't come right, andyou might have some late nights
.

Speaker 3 (26:29):
You might have some and, yeah, your pay may look
good on paper, but you're notdoing a nine to five.
No, no.
Nine to fives, don't exist andlike I actually sent my
principal an email yesterday,last night, then today was my
payday, because I was hereyesterday for the and we brought
kids, we were at 200 kids forthe triad trade.
We also had 48 girls for the.

(26:50):
Uh, young women in uh tradesand technology conference panel
here right.
So we brought 240 kids from ourschool.
Wow, they were fantasticallybehaved.
The teachers who were with them.
I had a chance to bounce aroundeverybody.
Everybody was engaged, askingreally good questions things
like that, Came back.
Everybody was thrilled to behere.
Great time coming back and went.

(27:12):
This was a payday.

Speaker 2 (27:14):
I got paid yesterday.

Speaker 3 (27:15):
That's what's supposed to happen, right?
Yeah, yeah, so, and today I gotkids here competing in the
skills competition too.
We actually had a coupleyesterday competing.
Was there some in that room Iwas talking to this morning?
Yeah, there's one in there.
They look so nervous.
Oh yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (27:29):
But it's cute.
It's cute.
I love it.

Speaker 2 (27:30):
I love it.

Speaker 1 (27:31):
It fills my heart to see a 17-year-old, a 16-year-old
, already focusing that.
Well, I was nowhere responsibleat 16 years old.

Speaker 3 (27:41):
We actually had a grade nine, yesterday competing
Really yeah.
Wow.

Speaker 1 (27:45):
That's amazing, right , yeah, so like we're.

Speaker 3 (27:49):
To me, it's we want to get the kids engaged and
finding what they want to do.
That's why our school modelsinvent yourself here.
Because they can do that, yeahRight, so they can do that.
They can invent themselves,they can find out, they can try
things that they can inventthemselves, they can find out,
they can try things.
I got quite a few kids who getout and oh, I'm born into this
I'm out of that and I ran intoquite a few alumni actually
yesterday.
Just they're in school heredoing different trades, yeah

(28:10):
that's amazing.

Speaker 1 (28:11):
All right, well, we're at the time in the
interview where we're gonnaswitch gears, so we're gonna
take time for the commercials.
Right now.
I will be right back from somewords from our advertisers on
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And we are back here on the cwbassociation podcast.

(29:57):
My name is max ferran and I'mhere with andrew clark, who's a
teacher at Harbor View HighSchool out in New Brunswick.

Speaker 2 (30:04):
All right.

Speaker 1 (30:04):
So we talked about, you know, the journey of getting
into teaching, becoming part ofthe skills family, the skilled
trades.
Now let's talk about skillscompetition.
So, first of all, when did youget involved with the skills
competition?

Speaker 3 (30:21):
My first touch with skills competitions was actually
when I was at West and Iactually brought a bus full from
my school because I went toHinton at the time.

Speaker 1 (30:29):
Okay, and.

Speaker 3 (30:29):
I brought it into the provincials so they could see
what was going on, because wemissed the regional deadline,
things like that.
Just go check it out.
Check it out.
I want to get the kids inspired.
Just get them interested, andthey hey, they got to go from
Hinton to Edmonton for the day.

Speaker 1 (30:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (30:43):
They got to see the provincials and they came into
the.
Where is it?
Oh the by.
Northlands, Northlands, thereright.

Speaker 1 (30:51):
Yeah, the exhibition grounds.
Yeah, there, yeah.

Speaker 3 (30:54):
And it's like oh man, they're like wow all these
different things, oh huge.

Speaker 2 (31:00):
They're like wow, all these things going on Like huge
.

Speaker 1 (31:02):
I'm like wow, all these things.
Go on Like wow, and all otherstudents their own age, their
own age yeah, Right.

Speaker 3 (31:06):
So it's not just you know a grown-up thing, no, it
was like I want to do this andwhen I did that I was like to
take those kids who were kind ofrough on those edges and things
like that.
And they came back inspired andthey had a focus what they
wanted to do.
And Just like that, and theycame back inspired and they had
a focus, what they wanted to do,and I was like awesome.
So then when I was here andwhen I was actually teaching my

(31:28):
first school here on the matleave, they actually hosted
provincials that year for skillsOkay.

Speaker 1 (31:34):
And that was actually when, so it was right in your
back door it was actually rightin the shop too.
Awesome.

Speaker 3 (31:42):
Because we had the automotive thing and it was
right in the shop and it wasactually at that point.
Luke was the ED here for skillsand that was when Courtney
Donovan just came on that year,so that would have been like
2020.

Speaker 1 (31:55):
17.
2016.
2016.
That long ago, oh my God.
That long ago.
Oh my God.
I forget how old I am sometimes.

Speaker 3 (32:03):
So that was her first year, so she just started and I
was yeah and there and boy, youknow what got in there.
Skills went great and pitchedin wherever you could.
We had some kids.
We had a few kids competingbecause they're homeschool.
Of course we're gonna get somekids in there because, yeah,
yeah, it's in our backyard, soit's like great things like that
.
Then I moved to harbourview andwas like skills competitions

(32:23):
what's that guys we got to getinvolved as like, because, like,
yeah, after that 2016, when wehost provincials, it was like
I'm hooked.
Yeah, oh, for sure oh yeah, this, this, this.
I can see this as where we needto be directing our energy,
yeah, like a future state, as,because not only that, not only
do they connect easier withpost-secondary and industry

(32:46):
right, and it's that bridgingthat gap there with the schools
and stuff is then we can adjustwhat we need to do as teachers
Right To help support industryand be in line with everybody
and post-secondary?
Yeah, because I was asked.
The post-secondary and theindustry is what can we do
better?
Get our kids prepared for you?
To get your kids prepared foryou in whatever roles you guys

(33:07):
need.
It used to be well get them toread a tape measure.

Speaker 2 (33:12):
We can do that in a day.

Speaker 3 (33:14):
Which one do you want ?
Metric Imperial, we can do itboth.
We'll even get you on theVernier scale.
It may take us two we can dothat.

Speaker 2 (33:20):
Make sure it may take us two.
Okay, we can do that.

Speaker 3 (33:22):
Yeah yeah, and make sure we get the math right, yeah
, but how do we work that?
And then 2017, moved schools,of course, halfway through the
year, just getting in there,just getting the feet wet,
didn't have enough time to getthings set up that year, but I
still went to school that yearbecause I was like you know what
?
I want to go back, I want tohelp out.
See what's going on.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (33:39):
See what's going on.

Speaker 3 (33:40):
That was in another school that year, so I went
there helped out for theprovincials.
It was fantastic.

Speaker 2 (33:46):
It was on the weekend .

Speaker 3 (33:46):
At that point I don't mind, I'll take the Saturday,
I'll go up.
Yeah, it's great.

Speaker 1 (33:51):
I was surprised this one wasn't into Saturday,
because most of them run intoSaturday.

Speaker 3 (34:01):
Usually they did and they like it was a tri-trade
where it was the Friday and thenthe Saturday was high school.
On the Saturday it was a desert.

Speaker 1 (34:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (34:09):
Nobody showed up things like that.

Speaker 1 (34:12):
Let's move it into the week.

Speaker 3 (34:13):
Yeah.
If you move it into the weekThen you can bust the kids in
what we can do, then is likewhat I chose yesterday is we
brought the high school studentsyesterday because today I
really want to get the secondarykids.
Let's get the middle schoolkids in.
Oh right, right, right, becausewe get those in in middle
school and even upper elementary.

Speaker 1 (34:30):
That's what all the STEM research shows.

Speaker 3 (34:31):
12 years old Get them in see what the options are in
high school, see what's going onin high school.
These are what you guys can bedoing in two, three years at
most.
Yeah Right, be doing in two,three years at most, yeah Right.
Get them inspired, right.
What's it going to do?
It's going to help them getfocused in middle school.
So you know those rumors andthings about middle school and
how the kids can be tough.

(34:52):
It's a tough time for the year,but as soon as they get
inspired and they have a focuson something, those behaviors
are going to decrease I meanthat's, it's like what sports
does to a kid.

Speaker 1 (35:02):
Yeah, you know like they may not like a lot of
things, they might sit on theirphones all the time or their
screen time, but they find thesport they like, they're hooked.

Speaker 3 (35:10):
They're hooked and boy, they're going to be focused
on everything else, andeverything else in life is going
to come up.

Speaker 1 (35:15):
When my daughter was music, yeah Right to worry about
her watching TV ever again.

Speaker 3 (35:20):
No, like yeah, for me that was swimming.

Speaker 1 (35:23):
Yeah, yeah, exactly yeah.
So when you, when you look atthe skills world, how well
involved, I guess, is the wordLike, has the word spread across
New Brunswick to the highschools.

Speaker 3 (35:34):
It's spreading more and more and more.
I'm seeing more and moreschools all the time.

Speaker 1 (35:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (35:38):
Like we've got today 15.

Speaker 1 (35:40):
15 in welding, 15 in welding and a couple on backup
waiting to get in.

Speaker 3 (35:44):
They were able to get in but we only have one school
which has two competitors.
That means we have 14 schoolshere represented, yeah, which to
me is great.
That's amazing, right?
So what's going to happen?
It's going to just raise thecompetition for everybody else.

Speaker 1 (35:58):
Well, and that's 14 schools that have welding
programs.
Right Like that.
That in itself is like rare,like in Saskatchewan I don't
think I could find 14 schoolsthat have welding programs.

Speaker 3 (36:11):
I can name off more than 14 schools from where we
are right now, within a hundredkilometer radius.
That's wild.

Speaker 1 (36:16):
And that's something that actually came up on the
podcast yesterday a couple oftimes was the amount of well
training centers there is outhere.
You know you got the campusesof NBCC, then you got NSCC in
Nova Scotia.
We have the union halls, Allthe unions which are very deeply
invested out here and there'seven in St John.

Speaker 3 (36:35):
Here there's a private, that's right.
They're saying there's privatecolleges, readyarc.

Speaker 1 (36:39):
So there is a lot of opportunities to get into the
trades out here.

Speaker 3 (36:43):
Yeah, yeah, yeah there's lots of opportunities
for the variety of not justwelding but just a variety of
things which is great, andthere's even opportunities for
the various trades out here.
Mm-hmm, like I was.
Uh, I was talking to somebodylast week and they said I like
they do this came from a meetingwhere they're talking to the
insulators and we can't findenough insulators in the country

(37:06):
.
Yeah, and we have more thanenough work for three years here
.

Speaker 1 (37:09):
Yeah, just here here.

Speaker 2 (37:11):
Right.

Speaker 3 (37:12):
So, and my youngest has actually just gone into
scaffolding here, yeah, and isloving it Never be out of work
Never be out of work, never beout of work.

Speaker 1 (37:20):
Caffolders first in last out.

Speaker 3 (37:22):
Yeah, never be out of work.
And he's loving it, yeah, so Iwas like you know what Well?

Speaker 1 (37:27):
I was talking to the union guys yesterday and they
said there's almost 2 millionman hours of work waiting to be
done.
Yeah, that's years of work.

Speaker 3 (37:35):
And we don't have the resources.
Yeah, and I remember you saidon the podcast a few years ago
it was like if every high schoolstudent in the country went
into today, we would still beshort, we'd still be short.

Speaker 1 (37:46):
Yeah, there's like that's not enough, that's
nowhere near enough.

Speaker 3 (37:49):
And that's just one trade, yeah, and we have a
multitude of trades like we havewhat 40 competition areas yeah
something like that, like how,where?

Speaker 1 (37:58):
well, yeah like we can do it, but we, we need to
help.

Speaker 3 (38:03):
All hands on deck, all hands on deck.
And I'm fortunate, in like onour school, we don't have that
stigma of trades.
Yeah, bad word, it's no.

Speaker 1 (38:12):
We're equal.
Smart kids go to university no.
The bad kids go to trade no, no, that's like no, we have smart
kids.

Speaker 3 (38:17):
do both.
That's right we have smart kidsdo everything.
The bad kids can do everythingtoo.

Speaker 1 (38:22):
It doesn't matter, yeah, and to me.

Speaker 3 (38:23):
I never look at it.
What's a bad kid?
Good kid.
No, it's like you've got yourown challenges.

Speaker 1 (38:27):
Yeah, and these are the opportunities in front of
you.
What are you going to do?

Speaker 3 (38:29):
Yeah, and let's try to get you challenges and if we
can get you a skill, that'sgoing to've been doing things to
help that out too.

Speaker 1 (38:45):
Well, it's good, and I mean I find that what happens
with skills, because it's really, at the end of the day, a
not-for-profit outside entitylike education adjacent, I would
say is that it really investsinto the community of the trade.
It does Because there's theindustrial side of the trades,
where people go to work to getpaid.
You get a paycheck, you take ithome done deal that's very

(39:07):
transactional.
That can be a love-haterelationship.

Speaker 3 (39:10):
At the end of the day , you shake hands, walk away.
That's right End of therelationship.

Speaker 1 (39:15):
But the trades have something that's quite unique
and I would say even weldingspecifically is that it has this
network, this whole world ofcommunity that seems to exist,
and if you don't believe me,just type in Weld on Instagram,
right?
And you'll see the communitiesthat exist to try to support

(39:35):
this trade and they're justpeople that are proud of what
they do and what their work is,and that's something that I
think sucks people in more thanthe paycheck the community,
because it's the, the peoplethat they get to meet and know
and and it's forever yeah.

Speaker 3 (39:51):
And it's you're making connections with things
you're interested in.
You want to do things like that.
So like I've got no issuesbecause at the end of the day,
you walk away, you've createdsomething and it's it's creative
.
That's why, like, yeah, I'm,I'm the SPR of the tech
department, but it's thecreative department.
Yeah, because we have the skilltrades, we have the arts, we
have the creative arts right.

Speaker 1 (40:12):
Yeah so it's like so how do you feel about this
year's skills?
You know how you find them as ahost city this year.

Speaker 3 (40:21):
NBCC here.
Actually, I'm really enjoyinghaving seen the post-secondary
yesterday, because I've neverbeen able to see the
post-secondary.

Speaker 1 (40:27):
Oh really.

Speaker 2 (40:27):
Because I've always been teaching.

Speaker 3 (40:29):
Yeah, can't get the day off to go to.
Yeah, no, no you got to be infront of the kids.
I understand that because Iheard it's a job yeah, Well, for
me it's not a job.
I don't miss too many days.
Yeah, yeah.
But how you know, you got to seethe post-secondary yesterday,

(40:51):
yeah it was really good and thekids who got to see the
post-secondary and got to trytrades, things like that, that
was really inspiring to them.
So to me it's been great andhaving it during the week, I
think, has been a fantasticthing.
Yeah, I know it's a little bitmore disruptive for people's
schedules, but you know what I?
Yeah, I know it's a little bitmore disruptive for people's
schedules, but you know what?
I don't find it that way, butthe benefits outweigh those

(41:13):
minor costs.
I think and I'm calling thosecosts minor they're minor costs
compared to the benefits and theoutcomes that we're achieving.

Speaker 1 (41:21):
I've had some pushback across the country
every now and then from highschool boards where it's like,
well, we only have X number ofpd days.
But I also worked in educationfor a while and I know how much
of those pd or pl days um areviewed as more of a just a an
escape or a day off all rightand ours are used right, and
that's the thing like this isnot that

(41:42):
no this is an investment.
Oh yeah, right, like and andit's something that's been
reiterated not just here butevery year is that I really
believe every instructor,teacher, welder, tradesperson,
whatever you are, should attendif not at least a provincial
competition.

Speaker 3 (41:59):
Oh yeah, I know.

Speaker 1 (42:00):
For sure the nationals, because the nationals
are times a hundred.

Speaker 3 (42:04):
They are the next level.
Yeah, and I've been to the lasttwo nationals, yeah.

Speaker 1 (42:10):
Yeah, you were in Quebec, right?
Yeah, I was in Quebec.
I was also in Winnipeg.

Speaker 3 (42:12):
Yeah, those are so fun and they were a blast.
And now, having been there andmaking those connections with
industries, things like thateven today, yesterday at the
provincials, making theconnections with the industries
for a teacher and just havingthose chances of collaboration
with the upper education people,how?

Speaker 2 (42:29):
can we?

Speaker 3 (42:30):
combine.
What can we do together to helpgrow the trades or where can we
help fill the needs?

Speaker 1 (42:36):
Right.
So and and how, when you'relike working with the other
professionals here, seeing theother instructors, instructors
at the colleges and thesuppliers and everyone here, how
well does that outfit you goingback to the school?
You know, when you go back towork next week, you go back with
a new set of tools in yourbrain.

Speaker 3 (42:56):
I have stuff I'm going to be bringing into the
classroom tomorrow.
Yeah, I'm back in the classroomtomorrow.
I got stuff I'm going to beputting into the shop tomorrow.
You're like, ooh, I saw this, Isaw this am.

Speaker 2 (43:05):
I going to do it.
I saw this, I saw this andwe're going to do it.
And I was like absolutely.

Speaker 3 (43:07):
And then I've also seen same time as like talking
with people going.
You know what, what I've beendoing, this is good, yeah,
you're not on the wrong track.
I'm not on the wrong trackwhere I might want to tweak this
or this is a new idea.
I want to try things like that,but I've also got things.
Now I day Today's we're juststarting today and I'm like

(43:29):
sweet.

Speaker 1 (43:33):
I got more things I got to put in my pocket here, or
I can keep a journal or anotepad or what can I bring back
for the other trades as well?

Speaker 3 (43:38):
For the other teachers who can't be here, who
don't get this opportunity.
When I go to nationals, that'swhat I'm always doing.
I'm coming back with differentprojects, things like that,
because we have one of ourteachers does the intro to skill
trades and the grade nine tech,which is the introduction to
the trades, things like that.
So I'm always trying to findall those little projects they
can do to put together so theycan drive an interest, so they
can get up and going on thingsand yeah I'm always coming up

(44:00):
with something or connectionsthat oh, let's, let's touch base
and let's get you connectedwith the right people so we can
really does the skills community?

Speaker 1 (44:08):
I guess?
I'm just trying to think of,like, how the other connections
can be created.
Do you have people from skillscome to your schools and talk
and stuff like that?
Yeah, what's the back and forth?

Speaker 3 (44:17):
Well, for me, I've always reached out to skills and
they've since since 2016,.
We've we've got that connectionand things like that, and I've
always tried to reach out tothem.
And they come in, they talk tothe kids.
I get them coming in every yearto talk to the kids Good, good,
and I also time it.
I get them in the fall, butthen I also get them early
February because the schoolregistrations just start coming
out in February and I always getkids go oh, I've got.

Speaker 1 (44:38):
That is an option, yeah.

Speaker 3 (44:39):
I got.
I'm good at this, so Go with it, go with it.
I had a girl a couple of yearsago who went to Winnipeg for
public speaking.
Today she's competing inworkplace safety.

Speaker 1 (44:51):
Oh, wow, I see the crossover for sure, absolutely.
She finished fourth atnationals and last year she
finished she didn't even medalin provincialism you know what?

Speaker 3 (45:06):
Honestly, I didn't invest myself as much as I did
that year first year but, I kindof want to go this way,
absolutely, go with it, go withit.
And I got other kids who arecoming in find out.
They've never taken a shopclass but they're doing some of
the other competitions here.
Yeah Right, you got people whoare new and I want to try this
out.
Absolutely, we're going to getyou in here, yeah.
And to me it's like, yeah, wedon't have to teach it.

(45:27):
We may not have it in school,but if you got an interest we're
going to chase it down for you.

Speaker 1 (45:31):
Yeah, now what kind of advice would you give to,
perhaps, a young educatorgetting into high schools that
you know is going to be put intothese roles going forward?
You know, what kind of advicewould you give them in terms of
a support for possibly anyskilled trades and and be like
resources that they can drawupon?

Speaker 3 (45:52):
Well, like for me, I've been really fortunate, and
I think the problem is we'rereally fortunate too is we've
had access to the for thewelding stuff, the online
learning portal for the CWlearning stuff yeah, absolutely
fantastic curriculum.
Yeah, heck of a lot better thanthe textbook too, and it's
current.

Speaker 1 (46:07):
For sure.
Yeah, heck of a lot better thanthe textbook too.

Speaker 3 (46:08):
And it's current, for sure.
It's updated all the time.
It's constantly updated.

Speaker 1 (46:11):
I saw an update last week, I was like fantastic.

Speaker 3 (46:13):
Right, but it's like I can always see how it's
getting upgraded, things likethat.
I was like you know what?
Yeah, we put in for it andthings like that.
There's always hiccups andthings, but you know what, and
it allows me then to get moretime in the shop.

Speaker 1 (46:28):
Yeah, where you need to be, hands on with the kids.

Speaker 3 (46:31):
Yeah, versus in a classroom with a textbook.

Speaker 1 (46:33):
Yeah, and textbooks are death now.

Speaker 3 (46:35):
Well, textbooks are 10 years out of date.

Speaker 1 (46:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (46:38):
Right.

Speaker 3 (46:38):
Well, and the cost.

Speaker 1 (46:41):
Yeah, Right, when 300 bucks.
Some of them are like who'sgoing to pay for that A class?

Speaker 3 (46:46):
set of that.
Yeah, One class set is like ohwell, there goes the budget for
the year.
Yeah, exactly, but what?
We have available, though it'slike you know what.
Now we can do it effectively,and there's other online
resources too, we can use.

Speaker 2 (46:59):
There's lots out there, oh, lots out there, and
some of them are not as good asothers.

Speaker 3 (47:02):
Others, like, I think TWP is standard, that's what
we're trying to do.

Speaker 2 (47:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (47:07):
And well, and try to support it with the other pieces
of the puzzle too, right?

Speaker 3 (47:12):
And it's been really good and really effective and my
kids have been really reallysuccessful at skills.

Speaker 1 (47:17):
I can say that how are they going to do today?

Speaker 3 (47:21):
Well, I know the competitors are in there, I know
what it is and actually today I, when I walked in there to see
who the competitors were, I wasactually really happy to see
we're not quite parity for girlsto guys.
I saw four or five girls inthere.

Speaker 1 (47:35):
Yeah, yeah, that's great.

Speaker 3 (47:37):
And I was like, and that was a, that was four, five,
11.
Now we got a sixth one in theretoo.
No, really, yeah, Amazing GoodAnother one walked in there I
was like that's almost parody.
Yeah, yeah, and that's what we,that's what I'm always aiming
for is parody.

Speaker 1 (47:51):
Well, what?
What did Courtney say yesterdayon the on the winner's table
there, the precision machining,or somebody had all three.
Top three were women.
Nice, that was awesome.

Speaker 3 (48:01):
Nice.

Speaker 1 (48:01):
She's like this is the first time we've had a top
three.

Speaker 3 (48:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (48:03):
All women in this trade, yeah, and I was like
that's amazing, good yeah, liketo me it's like why not?

Speaker 3 (48:09):
Yeah, and for me like going to provincials.
We always have to do anin-school competition because I
have so many kids who areinterested.
So we do an in-school andinevitably I I have a runoff,
yeah.
You have to trail it down.
Well, no, like I love,absolutely love, and really
think we need to grow that more.
Yeah, but then we also haveanother project, the higher

(48:34):
level, yeah.
A previous provincial skillsproject.

Speaker 1 (48:36):
Let's see what you can do.

Speaker 3 (48:38):
Let's kick it up a notch and see what you can do.
Yeah, and I always have.
If I don't have enough, I'llmake more packages.
So we have five, four or fivegoing at it.
Yeah, four or five going at it.
Yeah, and inevitably in thatit's always at least one girl.
Yeah, good, out of our program.
Yeah, I'm going great, I wantmore, and last year it was.

Speaker 1 (48:56):
It was so close well, the in the last three years the
best welder in canada hasalmost been a girl twice.

Speaker 3 (49:04):
Yeah, second place two years in a row yeah, it's
like, and I think last year was,I think last year was a Browns
was also a girl, that's right.

Speaker 1 (49:10):
And it's like so close yeah, Like come on.

Speaker 3 (49:14):
And to me it's like you know what.

Speaker 1 (49:15):
And for me, I would love for Canada to be the first
country internationally to senda girl to the world, oh
absolutely.
I would love for us to makethat move right.

Speaker 3 (49:23):
I am totally with you on that one.
I am totally with you on thatone because to me like having
worked in the trades, havingworked in the education system,
both systems like educationsystem predominantly women, yeah
.
Trades predominantly men, right.
And when I've been in a systemwhere it's been more balanced
yeah, wow are we effective.

Speaker 1 (49:44):
That's right.
The creativity is off thecharts.
Off the charts, yeah.

Speaker 3 (49:48):
Everything else, it's just.
It's an amazing experience.

Speaker 1 (49:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (49:51):
But you don't get to experience it if you don't have
that balance.
Yeah, yeah.
So for me it's, and that's whyI love trying to get that parody
together with the women.

Speaker 1 (50:00):
Yeah, All right.
Last couple of questions.
Yep, for yourself here withskills.
What is it that you're lookingto take back with you from you
know these couple days?

Speaker 3 (50:12):
Taking back to me, like what can we do to get any
kids inspired for next year?
Right, what can we do to growfor next year?
What can we do for other thingsto help further, further grow
what we have?
Yeah, and get kids, more kidsinterested, yeah, I mean, cause
we get the interest right, weget that passion.
Once we get the passion ignited, boy, we're going to go places.

(50:32):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (50:33):
That's right.
Right, and for the lastquestion, because I know you've
been involved with multiplelayers of the CWB, the
foundation, the association, uh,through skills, through the
conferences you've been involvedin and I appreciate, appreciate
that that I see you beinginvolved.

Speaker 3 (50:48):
I really appreciate you guys, because our welding
lab would not be there withoutthe cwb foundation but what is
it that we could do better, youknow?

Speaker 1 (50:55):
because it's yeah, it's good to ask people that
know the system, because if Ican't, just ask that to anybody,
no, no, I can't right for me,like when you guys have been
helping support the programs.

Speaker 3 (51:04):
Keeping like that like our biz, our biggest
challenges are alwaysconsumables.
Yeah, and keeping PPE updated,things like that and I know some
schools do it differently thanI do and for me I always stress
getting the right sized PPE tothe people.
Like I have two different sizesof gloves.

Speaker 1 (51:23):
I found women's gloves that are Are actually not
just small men's.
Well, no, they're the LincolnJesse Coombs ones.

Speaker 3 (51:28):
I don't no, the Lincoln, Jesse Coombs ones.
I don't know if they're stillJesse Coombs, but at one point
they were discontinued, so Ibought as many as I could from
the supplier.
Like I cleaned, them out of.
Canada and I've got a stock.
It's like I got to have glovesthat fit small hands.

Speaker 1 (51:42):
Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 3 (51:43):
And then also finding jackets.
Yes, jackets are always anissue, oh, and last year there
was a competitor at theProvincials and they've gone on
to post-secondary welding.
But this girl the jacket wasthree sizes too big for her.
Her gloves were three sizes toobig for her.
Like you could fold over thefingers, it's like how is that

(52:03):
fair?
Yeah, yeah, right, and to me,if you've got baggy clothing and
it's unsafe.

Speaker 1 (52:08):
It is yeah.

Speaker 3 (52:09):
And like it's unsafe, like how do we so?
For me it's like I'm going tospend our budget to make sure we
have the PPE to fit.

Speaker 1 (52:18):
That's interesting, because those are the same
things that as a, as anassociation, we've struggled
with the last couple of years.
We have reached out to a numberof different suppliers, and
it's nothing there.
No, and we find people that arestarting things.
There's coming down the pipe,but it's like but number one.
They're usually just looking atthe trades in generic terms and

(52:41):
welding is not like the othertrades.
We can't be having zippers.
No we can't be, you know, wecan't be polyester.
Oh yeah, no, we can't be, youknow we can't be polyester.
Oh yeah, Right so this ruins alot of what's already out there
in terms of FR or safetyclothing.
Or cost effective.

Speaker 3 (52:57):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (52:58):
So now, what do you do?
Where do you go?
And we are actively supportingsome startups that are trying to
get, but it's it's hard, it'snot coming out as fast as much
as we need it.
Like we want to get out of this4% with women.
We want to get them into somelevel.

Speaker 3 (53:13):
I want to get 40%.

Speaker 1 (53:14):
That's right.
I want to get to some level ofparity, but that's not going to
happen without them having 40%of the market share for clothing
, boots, everything else, yeah,because it's going to be too
cost.

Speaker 3 (53:24):
Yeah, how do we balance that out?
And then the other thing,especially for high schools,
it's consumables, consumablesyeah.
For us.
We're fortunate because we getthe government rate for gas,
mm-hmm.

Speaker 1 (53:34):
So I and the lease, we have to pay the lease.
Sponsor.
Are you on the Lincolnconsumables program?

Speaker 3 (53:38):
No, it's like, but I'm not on it, but at the same
time it's.
I've been using LIND Mm-hmm andthe local people have been
willing to match.

Speaker 1 (53:47):
Okay, that's good.
So I was like, because there isa educational portal for
Lincoln?

Speaker 3 (53:51):
Yeah, yeah Well, they , they, they, like the local
guys here have been fantastic.
They've been really great to us, supporting us and like they're
willing to play ball, Same timeas we've actually been
fortunate as some of the localcompanies as well.
Some of the larger fabriccompanies have also donated that
some of the larger fabriccompanies have also donated.

Speaker 1 (54:09):
That's something I'm pushing a lot and you know we
Well like they had the old rodsfrom one of the companies.
Yeah, they're expired.
Well, they're expired.

Speaker 2 (54:16):
They can't use them, or the bad batch, something like
that.

Speaker 3 (54:18):
So when it was 2021, they backed up two half-ton
trucks to our school.
That's amazing and I actuallywent through and I figured out
how much, how much the costwould have been, yeah, and we
got something like almost$20,000 worth of rods.

Speaker 1 (54:34):
So listen to this story.
In Alberta two years ago therewas a large program, a
construction program, happeningup in North Alberta and it got
finished and when it was alldone they had a full seat can
full of electrodes that was leftover, already paid for but not
needed for the job, and thecompany donated it to the CWB

(54:56):
and through the association andthe foundation, we distributed
1.3 tons of electrodes all overthe province for free.

Speaker 3 (55:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:02):
Because same thing expired.
Burn them up.
What are you going to do?
Throw them away.
They're great for practice,right, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 3 (55:08):
So the kids are getting exposed to not just the
standard 1-8th rods and 3-32ndrods.
We've got 5-32nd rods, and it'snot just the 70-18, the 60-10,
60-11.
We've got 80-18, we've got90-18.
We've got a few more things.
So yeah we got 309,.
We got 316s.

Speaker 1 (55:29):
Come on.

Speaker 3 (55:29):
That's nice, 7024s, of course.
What size do you want?

Speaker 1 (55:32):
Yeah, yeah, burn those up, yeah.

Speaker 2 (55:34):
Right but and I went.
Well, we're not going to use a6013s Come on, that's just.

Speaker 1 (55:43):
but yeah, give those.

Speaker 3 (55:44):
So when they leave us , they go.
Oh yeah, I know that.

Speaker 1 (55:48):
Yeah, we know.
Yeah, we've had these.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (55:50):
So they get a chance to go?
Oh, big rods.

Speaker 1 (55:52):
They like the big rods Awesome.
Well, thank you so much forthis interview.
You know any last words you'dlike to say, anybody you know,
in terms of the skilled trades,or even Skills Canada.

Speaker 3 (56:03):
Well, you know what I do have to say.
Thanks to Courtney and theSkills in Brunswick team.
They've been fantastic.
They support the students andthe competitors here so much,
especially at nationals becauseI know what some of the other
provinces' competitors have topay and for the high school
students here there are studentswho would not be going to

(56:23):
nationals because they wouldn'tbe able to afford to.
To me, they have beenabsolutely fantastic.
They are.
They're the reason why skillsare growing.
Yeah, and in the schools even.
Yeah, and I know it doesn't getout there much, but I can see
how they've been pushing andthey've been working with
industry, they've been workingwith the government and there's

(56:44):
been a big push which has beenfantastic and they've been great
advocates.

Speaker 1 (56:47):
Well, we wouldn't be out here if it wasn't for
Courtney calling me and sayingget in your butt down here.
Okay, I'm coming.
You know what?

Speaker 3 (56:55):
She has been fantastic for the province.

Speaker 1 (56:56):
Yeah, yeah, awesome.
Well, shout out to Courtney.
Thank you so much.
We're going to interview her,hopefully later today.

Speaker 3 (57:01):
Yeah, we ended up switching.
She had conflicts.

Speaker 1 (57:03):
She's busy.
She's a busy lady.
I understand.

Speaker 3 (57:05):
She knows it.
You know what.
I'll play ball and I'll jump inwhere I need to.
Thank you so much for beinghere.

Speaker 1 (57:11):
Good luck to your competitor.
Great program that you havewith your high school.

Speaker 3 (57:14):
Oh, and I'll see you at Nationals.

Speaker 1 (57:15):
Yeah, I'll see you at Nationals.
We'll be there.
It's in Regina oh yeah.
Actually, that's one place I'venot been in Saskatchewan yet.
Okay, it's a cool brewery, soyeah, but yeah, take care and
we'll see you out on the floorin a little bit here, awesome.
And thank you to everybodythat's been watching,
downloading and listening to ourpodcast.

(57:36):
We are crushing it, as always,and it's because of our guests
and the amazing places we get togo.
So keep downloading them andcommenting them and we'll catch
you at the next one.
We hope you enjoy the show.

Speaker 2 (58:00):
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