Replay with Andrea Armstrong and Max Ceron

The CWB Association brings you a weekly podcast that connects to welding professionals around the world to share their passion and give you the right tips to stay on top of what’s happening in the welding industry.

Please note this episode is a replay, bringing you a blast from the past.

Buckle up as we explore the inspiring world of shipbuilding on the west coast of Canada with Andrea Armstrong, a Red Seal Welder from Seaspan. Learn the meticulous process of transforming raw steel plates into magnificent vessels, and feel the excitement as Andrea recounts witnessing a Coast Guard vessel launch under the iconic 300-ton crane, Big Blue. Despite her family's academic inclinations, she pursued her passion for trades, leading to a rewarding career in welding and the joy she feels bringing her family to see these engineering marvels in action.

Follow Andrea:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/armstrong.andrea/

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
All right, I check, check.
Good.
So I'm Max Duran.
Max Duran, cwb AssociationWelding Podcast podcast podcast.
Today we have a really coolguest welding podcast.
The show is about to begin.

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Happy welding.
Hello and welcome to anotheredition of the cwb association
podcast.
My name is max seron and, asalways, I'm out there looking

(01:08):
for the stories that you love tohear and the ones that are hard
to find.
Today we're going back to thewell, to a company that's given
us some great stories, and Ithink we got another great one.
Today we have andrea armstrongcoming to us from the west coast
of canada, out in bc, who sheworks at, c-span.
Andrea, how are you doing?

Speaker 2 (01:26):
Doing great.
How are you doing, Max?

Speaker 1 (01:28):
I'm good.
It was a very busy day for metoday.
I was running around with myhead cut off, but this is a good
way to end it.
How about you?

Speaker 2 (01:36):
About you know what?
About the same.
We just had a Coast Guardvessel launch that I was able to
go see on monday, and then I'min a qa role right now.
Uh, so just lots of paperworkand okie yay, yay, yay.

Speaker 1 (01:53):
So tell me, uh, boat launch, a coast guard, boat
launch.
What is that like what?
What entailed that today?

Speaker 2 (02:03):
that there.
I'm honestly not the bestperson to speak on it because,
as a welder.
My entire part of coming intothe boat launches was just to be
like oh, it's so pretty, it'sgoing into the ocean, but we
have a really great team atC-SPAN and so they basically put
it up onto these I don't knowwhat to call them, but they're

(02:24):
self-driving, almost that theyhave a remote control and they
lift, lift the full vessel, theyput it out at the VSY and then
it will go over to VDC at thedry dock.
But it's yeah, the scale oflaunch is always what gets to me
.
So this will be the second boatthat I've seen launch and then,

(02:46):
yeah, it's just for me, it'salways the scale of it of
watching this thing Is therelike a big splash?
There is not.
They are very good at their jobso it's very controlled and
it's very nice and into thewater.
But it's the size of something,and especially for me, because
I've been with the company umoff and on cause I'm doing my

(03:09):
education for about six years,uh, and so I saw this when it
was like just plates of steelcoming through and getting cut
and to to have something thatgoes from like a bunch of plates
that you're like tackingtogether uh to this completed
ocean uh oceanography vessel isinsane.

Speaker 1 (03:31):
That's wild.

Speaker 2 (03:32):
It was it was really cool.
We got to bring in families too.
They had an open house.

Speaker 1 (03:36):
Was it like a barbecue and stuff, like let's
watch this boat hit the water?

Speaker 2 (03:40):
They.
To be fair, they didn't launchthe boat with with everyone in
there, but they did.
They did put it up at the at theend of the dock yeah, yeah, and
we were able to bring familiesuh into the yard to see, so,
which is really cool.
A lot of the people in the yardhave uh kids, so it was really
cool to see all of the kidsrunning around and just getting

(04:02):
so stoked so I've googled boatlaunches and and there's some
sketchy ones like massive boatsbeing like rolled down like
inflatable tubes, and it's justlike giver man, like.

Speaker 1 (04:17):
It's just like.
Once this thing starts rollingdown the hill, they just smash
into the ocean and float awayand then somebody like catches
it somehow, like with a tugboatand you made it sound like it's
not like that at all at sea spanit is.

Speaker 2 (04:32):
It is not, and I think that's because we do have
a really good uh, really goodcrew when it comes to movement
and for our crane operators, andthen we have a really good
marine crew.
Um, I think if you let thewelders be the one to do it, it
would probably look more likethat.
I think anyone from our side ofthe association would be like
we could roll it down.

Speaker 1 (04:51):
Yeah, it'll float.
It's fine, it'll do fine.

Speaker 2 (04:55):
Like I welded that.
It should be good, butthankfully we are not allowed to
do it, so we have a really goodcrew out there.
Um, and I'm always just amazed,especially too, cause we have a
very large crane called bigblue.

Speaker 1 (05:11):
Uh, that's a 300 ton.
Yeah, it's a 300 ton crane Uhyou can see big blue from across
the water.

Speaker 2 (05:19):
Yes, you can see big blue from most of Vancouver.

Speaker 3 (05:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (05:22):
There's.
It is a landmark and a half,which is always really cool when
you get to be workingunderneath it or come onto site.
It also makes it very easy topoint out where you work to
people.

Speaker 1 (05:34):
Oh yeah, I guess.

Speaker 2 (05:35):
I never really thought about that.

Speaker 1 (05:36):
Like the giant crane that's over there.
Yeah Well, let's back up herebecause, like you, got a pretty
impressive resume for a youngwoman, you know, and, and I was
looking at it this morning andthinking I'm looking forward to
this interview because, I mean,a lot of the things you do are
things that are right in mywheelhouse.
I was never in shipbuilding,although we did talk right
before the show.

(05:56):
I'd had a little bit of dippingmy fingers into it because of
some marine annex stuff I didwith a college.
But you're a red seal welder, alevel one inspector, a wet,
which is a welding engineeringtechnologist, and now you're in
your third year to be mechanicalengineer.
Yes, now that's a lot in ashort period of time, because

(06:16):
you don't look like you're 40 tome.
I don't.
I mean, maybe I can just, maybeI'm gauging way off, but that's
a lot of a lot of stuff goingon.
So, in order of chronicle here,what was first was the, was the
red seal?
Welding was first, all right.
So how old were you when youstarted welding?

Speaker 2 (06:36):
okay, so there's two answers to that.
There's the when I became anapprentice, which was at 19.
And then there is when I firstever struck an arc, but no one
told me it was welding, and Idon't have trades in my family,
so I had no idea what that.
What I had actually done waswelding, and that was at 16.

Speaker 3 (06:56):
Was that in high school.

Speaker 2 (06:59):
No, that was actually on board a ship crossing the
Atlantic and we got stuck in thedoldrums, which is right on the
equator, and I had a very coolchief engineer who was like hey
kid, want to learn how to dothis.
You get to glue metal togetherwith fire.
And so at 16, I struck my firstarc on a ship and then went off

(07:19):
lived life.
Came back, didn't know whatwelding was, had no idea.
Went through BCIT for a women intrades program that you just
kind of got to try a couplestuff yeah loved it.
Love fell in love with welding,got in, did my c-ticket um and
then, two years after that, at21, I ended up being a
shipbuilder.
So it was a very it was a verycool full circle moment yeah, so

(07:44):
there's a couple things tounpack.

Speaker 1 (07:46):
There's a couple things to unpack in there.
First of all, what are youdoing on a ship at the equator
at 16?
That's not a thing people do at16.
They're like, they're not like,hey, yo I'm going on a ship at
the equator, like that's prettyfar from bc you know what?

Speaker 2 (08:06):
it was?
A distance from bc, so I wasreally lucky.
And when I was 16, uh, therewas basically like a student
decam program, um, on boardships, uh.
And then you know, you didschool at the same time um and
so the ship that I was on onboard was a fully rigged tall

(08:26):
ship.
So for what, if most peopledon't know what that is?

Speaker 1 (08:30):
uh think pirate ship yeah, so it was a steel.

Speaker 2 (08:34):
So three mast 15 square sails, 27 sail, uh sails
in total, uh, and we crossed.
We started in the great lakesof canada, went out through the
St Lawrence, crossed theAtlantic the first time over to
the Azores in Portugal, wentdown the coast of Africa, kind
of got to Senegal, gori Island,and then went back across.

Speaker 1 (08:56):
Rode the current back yeah.

Speaker 2 (08:58):
Rode the current back , which is where I struck an arc
for the first time on our wayto.
Barbados Okay, for the firsttime on our way to barbados,
okay, did the caribbean and, andout of bermuda we went back to
cross over to france and bringthe ship home to norway.
Uh, so that was a year of, from16 to 17, that I had this

(09:18):
whirlwind how do you find thislike?

Speaker 1 (09:21):
this sounds like an incredible journey, like yo.
Sign me up, man uh, my oldest.

Speaker 2 (09:29):
So the program used to be able to.
So it was like you could begrade 11, grade 12 and first
year university, and theuniversity students went out of
a very small nova scotia well,not very small, but small nova
scotian university called acadia, which is where my oldest
sister did her first degree, uh,and so she came home and was

(09:51):
like, hey, I think andrew woulddo well at this.
We should see if we can get heron this boat that's wild and I
did that sounds like such anexperience like.

Speaker 1 (10:02):
Were you so?
Were you a shippy person beforeliving and growing up in BC?
I mean, there's two types ofpeople that live on the coast,
right, there's people that liveon the coast and live in the
coast, so they're like in thewater, they're in boats or in
canoes or in kayaks or on boatsor on ferries, whatever.
Then there's people that liveat the coast that don't know how
to swim and have never stuck afoot in the ocean right, and

(10:24):
there's people that live at thecoast that don't know how to
swim and have never stuck a footin the ocean Right, and there's
both.
Like I'm from South America andChile.
We are all coastal, and half myfamily's probably never been in
the ocean because they're like,brutally scared of it Something
I know, it's just a coastalthing.
So were you a kid growing upbeing like I love boats, or were
you like boats?

Speaker 2 (10:43):
are weird.
I don't know, no, I.
Boats are weird.
I don't know, no, I.
I loved boats, and that's fullyto both of my parents.

Speaker 1 (10:50):
My mom was a commercial diver before she
became a nurse okay, and was akayak.

Speaker 2 (10:54):
Uh, it's like licensed kayak instructor yeah
uh, and so we grew up fully inthe water right um, all the time
, and my dad started in marinebiology before switching over to
medicine as well, and so bothof my parents, we grew up with
very watery, water-based people,but also extremely nerdy

(11:18):
water-based people.
My mom did drift dives to studyoctopus.
Did, uh, drift dives to studyoctopus, um, and my dad studied
the.
The marine biologist will beupset with me, uh, but the most
boring fish known to man, whichwas the black-eyed goby and kelp
, that's so that was anything'sfun if you study it all right so
, but that was the like homeenvironment was like always,

(11:41):
always in a kayak always on thewater.
We all knew how to swim, we allloved being out on the water.
So it fit really well to go onthe boat, and then it fits very
well now, as an adult, to comeback and build them.

Speaker 1 (11:53):
Yeah, so you go around this trip around the
world, you strike an arc andthen you get back to high school
and it sounds like yourfamily's fairly academic.
Your family's fairly academic.

Speaker 2 (12:18):
You didn't have the push for you coming out of high
school to get into universityand become a marine biologist,
kayaker, commercial diver, nurse, medicine man there was a push
for education.
That was my family's big thingwas.
Education was key and it is.
Most people ask me, becausethey usually expect especially
my dad because he's a doc thatthey would have been upset when
I went trades.

Speaker 3 (12:35):
And.

Speaker 2 (12:35):
I actually got into university, did half a year of
medical physics Well, but thenwas like not for me Not now, I
don't want to do this, uh, and Iwas really nervous to tell my
family when I was like, hey, Ithink I'm gonna go drop out and
become a welder, um, and I wasreally scared to talk to my dad.
All right, the same, he did forboth my other sisters when they

(13:02):
got into an educational program, um, and so for my parents and
my family they were like we'vejust cared that you get an
education.

Speaker 3 (13:14):
Trades is a great education and, like I don't
think, I.

Speaker 2 (13:17):
I don't think I had a prouder person than my dad when
I got my red seal.
Um to the point, he was aproblem that he would like go to
random strangers and be like mydaughter's, a red seal and
they're like a what and they'relike are you like what?
And he's like she's a welder,she's a red seal and then they
would.
They would ask him they're like, what is a red seal like?

Speaker 1 (13:40):
and he would spiel it all out to them.
This is what it is, this iswhat it does, is what she does.
That that's awesome.

Speaker 2 (13:45):
So they were.
I got really lucky with that.
It was like very academicfamily but they viewed trades as
education and that was theironly push.
For me was I needed to beeducated and it didn't matter
what that education was in.

Speaker 1 (13:58):
Well, technically, everything is science, right,
like, at the end of the day,everything is a science.
So, like, you can dip your toesinto welding and you might just
consider yourself a stickwelder and you're just stick
welding or mig welding every day.
But what you're doing isscience and if you really want
to get into it, there is anendless career path that you can
go down, which I see you are on.

(14:20):
But we you know, and I've gonedown that path.
I started off as a welder at 17and, like I mean, now I'm
executive director at thecanadian welding bureau, working
standards and you just it opensup, it's endless, right.
So let's go back to to posthigh school, try university, bit
of.
Uh, I went to universityphilosophy, ended up becoming a

(14:41):
welder.
You went for medicine, ended upbecoming a welder physics.

Speaker 2 (14:45):
Physics, not medicine .
Yeah okay and we, we all stayedaway from medicine.
We knew that from the get-go100.

Speaker 1 (14:52):
Yeah.
So then you, you start goingdown this path for welding now
as a young female, you knowyou're.
You're probably 18 ish, maybemaybe coming up on 19,.
Starting your journey in BC.
You have a level CBA formatbefore you can go for your red
seal.
Um, for people across thecountry it's the same three
blocks, just a different name.

(15:13):
Um, but did you have any majorobstacles Like your family's?
not one but, what about otherobstacles?
Did you have any other issueswith finding apprenticeships or
or with the course itself, Like,did you struggle with the
welding program at all, or wasit were you pretty good at it?

Speaker 2 (15:31):
Um, I was lucky that I, like naturally, had pretty
decent hands um, for someone Ihad also prior to becoming a
welder, and I think this iswhere, like, having good hands
came from.
Um, I was a jeweler, okay.

Speaker 1 (15:44):
So I was a jeweler.

Speaker 2 (15:45):
Okay, so I was a jeweler from the time I was
about 17, 18.
I worked for the silversmith inBC and so I knew some things,
like I knew what oxy feel was weused it to do some of our
silver soldering.
I was working with reallyreally fine metals and fire and
so there were parts of that,that, the a lot of the welding.

(16:05):
I didn't necessarily struggleand obviously I wasn't like I
was amazing out the bat, that'sjust not, but it translated,
yeah, yeah but it, it.
I didn't have this huge um gapthat I thought I was going to,
because so many of the the menthat I went through the program
with came from a tradesbackground and I mean, they'd

(16:26):
been welding in their garagesince they were like 12, 14.
And I had.
So I was really nervous when Ifirst set up for the program and
the jewelry came in reallyhandy.
There's obviously like being awoman in a trade you're going to
run into issues.

Speaker 1 (16:44):
That's you know, know , all of us do.

Speaker 2 (16:48):
It is a reality of the situation.
At the same time, what I foundis that you're gonna run into a
lot of champions.
So I had a lot of like men inmy life and a lot of people
assume it is the women and whenyou meet them it is for the most
part.
But I had the amount of men inmy life and in my career who
were the ones that had my back,who are the ones that got me

(17:09):
jobs, got me apprenticeships,the whole bit like and from the
get-go from my first instructorright.
So from my first instructor Iwas getting really upset with
him.
He was passing I thought youknow someone else's weld and I
was really angry because I'mlike my world looks better yeah
why am I not getting passed?
And he finally just put measide.

(17:30):
He's like look, you're gonna.
You gotta be a good welder ifyou want to do this, because you
need to be.
You need to be confident ifyou're going to be a woman in
the field you're gonna have toblow their socks off, yeah yeah,
and I know you can do it, so gogive me a better bloody well
than what you're bringing to me.
I don't care that it's not theworst one of the day make it

(17:51):
good you shouldn't be aiming for.
Like you know better than thefirst right, and so that was
like my initial step into thetrade.
I immediately had people whowere in there who were just
amazing and made sure that I hadthis pathway through it.
Um, and there's always, youknow, pairing my language.

Speaker 1 (18:13):
There's always going to be you know what I mean For
sure.

Speaker 2 (18:16):
Regardless of if you're a man or a woman or
whatever, you're going to runinto some people that, and it's
usually- based in envy, it'susually based on jealousy, it's
usually based on their ownshortcomings.

Speaker 1 (18:28):
That makes them lash out.
I mean, we live in a patriarchy, we live in a male dominated
system of society and the tradesare kind of like almost like
the worst example of thatpatriarchy.
At the end of the day, you needmen to stand up against the
patriarchy because they're theones that own it right.

(18:48):
That's kind of they're going tomake the biggest differences
and I like I mean I support andabsolutely a hundred percent
love the growth of women and anygender diversity within the
trades, but the men got to backdown and be like yo, like chill
but the men got to back down andbe like yo, like chill, let

(19:09):
that happen, right, and I Ifound that like I had that
without ever having to ask forit.

Speaker 2 (19:11):
I just had.
I was very lucky.
Um, I also think that it is amajority.
I think most people that I workwith are just lovely, amazing
people well I think it's a wholenew generation coming in.
They might be a bit grouchy100%, they might tell you to F
off, but it's from a place oflove, or at least not a place of
hate.

(19:34):
And so I found that for themajority of the time I always
had at least one person thatreally had my back or was really
pushing me to kind of developinto a better welder than what I
was, or then when I keptprogressing into an engineer and
into an inspector.
So I got really lucky with alot of the people that I work

(19:56):
with that I consider mentors,and most of them are men,
because it is a male dominatedfield.

Speaker 1 (20:01):
Like most people.

Speaker 2 (20:02):
I work with are men.
Most of my mentors are men andthey've yeah, they've just had
my back from the from the momentI started.

Speaker 1 (20:11):
So walk us through your journey through the three
levels then, becauseapprenticeship can be kind of a
bag sometimes in terms ofgetting your hours and getting
the types of hours you need forfor getting onto the next level,
need for for getting on to thenext level.
So were you able to do allthree years of your
apprenticeship in bc, or did youhave to chase down some work
other places to to finish outyour hours?

Speaker 2 (20:33):
so I I was, I stayed bc.
I was a bc girl for my trade.
I didn't do an a ticket,because in bc you don't need to,
because it's uh, it's tig, tigpipe and special alloys.
And I, at the last week of myB-ticket, I got a shut-down job
and then I kept workingthroughout that and I was like

(20:54):
I'm not going back for myA-ticket.
I have consistent work.
I'm going to go over here and Ido.
It is one of those things that,especially now that I've
switched more to a science site,I do really wish I had come
back for my a ticket just tohave it in the bag and it's done
, you know, it's interesting,it's cool, allies, it's all of
those things and and just Ithink, a little bit of bragging

(21:15):
rights, just to be like, oh yeah, a ticket, right same thing
with your, you know yourpressure tickets, um.
but so I I C-ticket and then Iwent out and I took whatever job
I could and when I started Istarted with a stack of resumes
in my little Mazda and all of mytools and everything to get

(21:38):
ready to do weld tests and I hadworked for a couple of small
shops and then started doingpredominantly shutdowns in,
predominantly like sawmills andpulp mills.

Speaker 1 (21:50):
So, you're working interior BC here now.
No, no, I was on the coast.

Speaker 3 (21:56):
I did do interior.

Speaker 2 (21:57):
not a huge amount, but we had a fair amount of work
over here and so I worked.
It's closed down now, but Iworked at favela for a lot of my
hours which is out in a, out inport, moody there, uh, and
learned a lot from the guysthere, not always.
I think the uh the safest wayto maybe do something, but no,
there's lots of tricks, thoughwe got it done.

Speaker 1 (22:18):
Um, like I always tell people on the show, if you
want to learn how to weld, get amaintenance job.
You learn how to do everythingthe wrong way, but hey, it works
.

Speaker 2 (22:28):
I learned how to form steel with a forklift.
We rolled steel with a forklift.
Yeah, which is not how you'resupposed to roll steel.

Speaker 1 (22:42):
And OH&S does not comply, all right.

Speaker 2 (22:44):
No, and Flavella is no longer running, so you know
what?
Fair enough um but when I, whenI switched over to c-span and I
saw there for me in shop, I waslike oh, that's how you're
supposed to do it.
Well, like you guys are, soprecise they're like yeah, how
did you roll anything?

Speaker 1 (23:05):
I was like tack and smash, man, tack and smash.
Oh yeah, hot tacks yeah, bestfriend damned right I had a
miller.

Speaker 2 (23:14):
I get that for me on a t-shirt and I've lost a
t-shirt now, but I had a miller.
I get me a t-shirt that sayshot tacks are a girl's best
friend true story, everyonewe'll never get it to move that
far.

Speaker 1 (23:24):
Oh yeah, we will.
We'll get it to move.
Don't you worry about that hottax and the dog and wedge.

Speaker 2 (23:29):
You can build anything yeah yeah, and in a
chicken foot.

Speaker 1 (23:33):
For good measure you're, you're good to go so you
, you, you got your red seal andnow you're looking at
opportunities right, andobviously you love your province
.
You seem very you know, intowhich I love, because I love

(23:53):
Saskatchewan.
People make fun of me for it,but screw them.
I love where I live.
I have had a great career outhere and made a pile of money.
Everything's great.
So you know you do what you dowhere you are Now.
Have you stayed in BC yourwhole career?
Um, or after your red seal, didyou do some experimenting
around or you know what was nexton the list for you?

Speaker 2 (24:13):
so I got.
I stayed with c-span untilbecause I loved it I loved um,
and then I kind of got it intomy head of like, you know, I
maybe think I want to go backand get more of an education,
and so I was like, cool, let'ssee what we got.
And there's a weldingengineering team at C-SPAN and

(24:34):
prior to C-SPAN.
I didn't know that that existed.
I did not know that that was anengineering discipline.
um, and the the when I looked itup at the time the only uh
licensed by the cwb program wasstate at alberta and was at a
technologist level, and so Iwent okay, well, that's like I'm

(24:56):
going to alberta, that's whereI gotta go, uh.
So I was out in alberta um it'sa two-year program it's a
two-year program.
It's a two-year program.

Speaker 3 (25:05):
It's a two-year program.

Speaker 2 (25:05):
It's a two-year program.
It's an awesome program.
I wish more people would takeit, because it is an awesome
program.

Speaker 1 (25:11):
It is getting more popular.
Now it's all over Alberta.
We have one in Saskatchewan,Conestoga, Ontario.
It's spreading.
It's a great program.

Speaker 2 (25:20):
And so SAIT was great .
It's called the WET program,which is not the best acronym
for it.

Speaker 1 (25:25):
No, but hey.

Speaker 2 (25:26):
It is what it is.
We took it in stride, it didwell and so I moved out to
Alberta.
I started doing the morescience side of things and,
coming from a pretty academicfamily, pretty science-based
family, um, it clicked and itwas just fantastic.

(25:47):
And I think the big thing forme was because I was a red seal
and also an adult like I, wascoming back you know, I think I
started at another level.
Yeah, yeah, and so it was just Iwas.
I was, you know, had kind ofmore of my my together here and
knew what I wanted to come backfor.
But I started getting intometallurgy and having these

(26:10):
metallurgy classes and then, asa welder, there was a lot of
stuff that I had learned overtrial and error through my
career or just from you know.
it was the way we had to do itfor codes and standards you know
it was the way we had to do itfor codes and standards or from
mentors who were like beautiful,amazing welders that you're
like you know could weld for 40years and not produce something

(26:32):
that looks as nice, right, or is?
It strong and so I did thingsthroughout my career that I did
them because they worked Right.
And then I went to school and westarted talking about
microstructures and you're likeuh-huh and my entire metallurgy
course I felt a little bad forevery other instructor because I

(26:53):
think I ignored every otherclass and was like this is now
my favorite thing in the world,and so I got to learn how to do
destructive testing.
I've got to learn how to dodestructive testing.
I've got to learn how to domicrostructure analysis.
Learn about you know past abasic crystal structure which we
do learn a little bit about,yeah, the BCC, fcc the basic

(27:19):
stuff Urban phase diagrams andgetting into like ferrite
formations like.
Wittmann-Staten ferrite versus asecular ferrite versus like.
Okay, what's your hardenability, which is used to form
martensite, and how thatinteracts with steel properties.
And then all the differentthings you know, like you're in

(27:40):
your, your magnetism, yourthermal resistivity, everything,
everything, everything yeah,I'm a metallurgy nerd, it's
basically how?

Speaker 1 (27:49):
I got to where I am is, I rode the metallurgy bus
right and I always said, becauseit's a good bus, it's a great
bus.
And I always told my studentsthat it's a good bus.
It's the ultimate problem solver.
I said, like you know, in yourlife you can live your entire
career as a welder or fabricatorwithout learning metallurgy and
you'll be great, you'll be fine.
But when you have a problemarise, something breaks,
something cracks, somethinghappens.

(28:10):
It's a lot of trial and errorto figure it out, but if you've
got a good metallurgy background, you're going to look at that
and immediately narrow it downto a set of principles that
you're like okay, I'm prettysure that it's going to be one
of two things here, and I knowhow to check.
You know what I mean Like anduh and it just it makes problem
solving so much easier.

Speaker 2 (28:32):
My, my favorite, and I don't know if you've had this
of like getting to do some very,very basic level failure
analysis and actually having itbe like a puzzle and a picture
of like, hey, we have this crack, and when you, when you
actually put that underneath amicroscope, when you, when you

(28:53):
acid edge it, when you do allthese things, um and I, well, I
guess, if there's a crack andyou're doing failure analysis,
don't acid edge anything yet, um, should I?
I've probably got the metallurgyinstructor yelling at me in the
back uh but my coolest thingwas learning that, like the
steel will tell you where itbroke because of things that are

(29:13):
called like chevrons and likeriver run lines, and you can see
you can actually like withfatigue cracks it looks like
waves.
It looks like waves on a beachunder a microscope and you can
see it.
And then you can see where itreaches that critical thickness
point, where all of a sudden, itturns into a cleavage in this,
this fast fracture.
Um, and when I found that I waslike, are you telling me

(29:37):
there's been puzzles in my steelthis entire time?
Yes, there is for like eightyears, you're telling me that I
didn't have to like that.
I could have been taking thisapart and, and it would show me
where it broke or why it brokethe way it did, um, and so, yeah
, that was for me the biggest assoon as I got into the wet

(29:58):
program and did that firstmetallurgy course I was.

Speaker 1 (30:01):
I was set I wasn't going back for me, the biggest
thing that made my brain kind offlip completely over to that
side was that I used to be astainless welder that was like
my.
That was my meal ticket.
I welded stainless tig mig stickoh, you were a prettier welder
than me so I did that for yearsand I made a lot of money doing
stainless work in saskatchewanfor mine, mining company,

(30:24):
manufacturing and um, andthere's so much you have to do
to be careful around stainlessthat I had just learned from
procedures, from working withpeople.
And then when I got intometallurgy, like I feel like
stainless is some maybe theeasiest material to really see
what happens with grainmigrations and temperatures and

(30:47):
grain boundaries and all thethings that can happen and you
know the carbon pooling and thehydrogens pockets and in
stainless you really see it likeyou ever bend a stainless plate
and it cracks.
You can just look at thecrystals, you just put them in
the light.
You don't need acid, you don'tneed nothing, you just put it in
the light and be like uh-huh, Iknow what's going on, you know

(31:10):
like, and I realized that, like,like you said, the experience
that's out in the field, on thefloor, gets you to the same
place.
But this is coming at it fromanother angle, right, and and
that's why I love engineers thatknow how to weld and welders
that know how to engineer,because they kind of got the big
picture right.

Speaker 2 (31:31):
And I thought it's cool to see something that
you've done for so many years.
That you've done because it'sthe way you're supposed to do it
and then be able to answer why.
And that was when I was anapprentice, I think I annoyed a
lot of people because I'd belike, but why?
But?
Why do I have to preheat?
Why do I have to preheat what's?

Speaker 1 (31:50):
this.
It's going to get hot anyways.

Speaker 2 (31:57):
And so it was really cool, especially for me going
back to be like, oh, that'sthat's why, like now, what about
your family?
like, now that you're back inthe science fold, was your mom
and dad being like, ah, we knewyou couldn't escape no they're
like I said, they're so they'reso just proud of education but,
but they really do considereverything very equal A form of

(32:17):
education.
Yeah, Very equal right, like itneeds to be formal education,
but trades engineering likethere's.
They're really proud of me thatI'm going back now as an adult,
I think they're.
They definitely feel a bitbetter that I'm no longer on
tools.
Yeah, just for safety, yeah forlongevity, for longevity for

(32:40):
sure um I definitely know that.
I think it makes both my parentsquite happy that I'm no longer
like fully on tools or doinganything super dangerous anymore
and that I'm more in a lab basethat they.
I think they just breathe a biteasier, especially because they
don't have that background.
Um and it is dangerous work.
It is all of those things, yeah, absolutely.

(33:00):
Right, um, but I think too forthem, especially not coming from
a trades background whereyou're used to things like heavy
duty machinery, where you'reyou know where you're used to
things to things like explosiveblasts and like it can just be a
bit, and they've seen some ofthe sites I've worked at and so
I think it can just be a bitlike it makes them feel a bit

(33:21):
better that I'm out of that nowright.
And then I'm more into a scienceside that it has.
I have a lot of longevity inthe career that I'm not as
necessarily likely to getinjured right.

Speaker 1 (33:32):
So you do your time in Calgary, you get your time in
calgary.
You get your to your wetprogram underneath your belt.
Any plans of sticking around inthe in the madness of alberta?
Or were you bounce, bounce, dipout back to bc?

Speaker 2 (33:45):
no back.
I think if I stayed in albertaI would have, uh, been very bad
and started pouring salt in thebow river.
Um, I think I would haveaccidentally killed all of their
wildlife because I was reallymissing the ocean yeah, I I grew
up on the water and I I lovebeing back home on my coast um

(34:06):
on on any coast, I'm quite happy, but especially back where I
grew up.
Uh and no, I I do think I wouldhave.
I would have accidentallypoisoned wildlife if I stayed
much longer just because I wouldhave put.

Speaker 1 (34:18):
I would have put a lot of salt in the bow river,
just to feel like I was home soyou head back to BC.
What are your thoughts?
Employment wise, are you likeokay, I got a new designation
now, um you, you start stackingthem right.
So now the resume is startingto look pretty stacked right.
Did you have your level oneinspector yet?

Speaker 3 (34:37):
yeah, yeah, I got it at the end of the attack.

Speaker 1 (34:40):
Usually it's part of the last year of the program yet
.
So you get your.
You got your tech, or sorry,you got your tech program.
Then you got your level one.
Did you go right back to to toc-span, and say, hey, knew me,
you guys got a job for me.
Or or did you venture out andlook for other stuff?

Speaker 2 (34:58):
So kind of twofold.
So I worked for C-SPAN.
While I was doing my educationI came back in the summer and
their Wild Eng team was niceenough to take me on as an
intern and I got to help set upthe lab and help do some lab
work for them for thedestructive testing lab, which
was amazing and was much nicerequipment than I ever used at

(35:18):
school um, and they just theyhave some really really cool,
cool wild engines over there whowere just kind enough to walk
me through a lot of more highlevel stuff, um, and so I I
obviously was like, okay, like Iwant to ship build on the West
Coast that C-span.
But I also looked at it and Ilooked at kind of point in life

(35:40):
because I'm 27.
And I thought if I want to goget the full degree it's a lot
easier to do it now.
I'm not too tied down right now.
I'm young enough that, if I wait, another kind of five, six
years family, all that type ofstuff yeah, you don't know
what's gonna happen, you know no, you don't, and so I was like
you know what, let's you knowI'll start kind of getting

(36:03):
prepped for for jobs.
But let's, let's see if I canget into this bridge program uh
to uvic, and I am the firstwelding engineer that they've
ever taken, which is a littleterrifying so I was going to ask
you, because UVic is not knownas a welding engineering college
.

Speaker 1 (36:21):
It's basically U of A , the CCWJ, or Waterloo, which
is the CAJW.
So you know, between those twocolleges in Canada those are the
only two really known forwelding engineering program.

Speaker 2 (36:35):
those two colleges in Canada.
Those are the only two reallyknown for welding engineering
program, but they and to myknowledge, and maybe and this is
maybe where I lack some someeducation on it to my knowledge
they you don't come out fullydesignated as a weld edge no,
you come out as a materialsengineer, or a version of it,
and the accreditationcertificate.
Right, that's right.
Yeah, all right, let me justspeak over you there.

Speaker 1 (36:54):
Yeah yeah, so now you're the first under the full
weld eng at UVic.

Speaker 2 (37:02):
So I'm not so I'm a mechanical eng at UVic, but I'm
the first weld eng tech thatthey've ever accepted into this
bridge program.

Speaker 1 (37:09):
Nice.

Speaker 2 (37:09):
Into mechanical engineering.
So I went to and was like, hey,here are my marks, here's my
experience, here's how similarour math and our basic courses
were.
Would you guys mind, can wework something out?
Because they don't actuallytake from our program and so I'm
the kind of tester child, Itake one extra course, and so so
far, so good.
So far, so good.

Speaker 1 (37:30):
Well, I'm sure it'll be fine Education's going to be
there.
Well, I'm already.

Speaker 2 (37:33):
I'm already a semester through.
So, I'm a semester done.
I got one more transfersemester and then in January I
should be going over to UVic.
So it's a Camosun bridgeprogram through Camosun to UVic.
I used to have a friend thattaught at Camosun.

Speaker 1 (37:46):
I don't know if he's there anymore Al Bray but he was
old.

Speaker 2 (37:57):
Now, geez, I'm old now.
But anyways, yeah, kamosan'sgot great programs.
Oh, kamosan's fantastic.

Speaker 1 (38:01):
So I, you know it so that's kind of where I'm at for
right now.
For altumai sorry, altumai,that was his name.
Sorry, in case he's listening.

Speaker 2 (38:06):
I didn't get it wrong um, so that's yeah, that's kind
of where I am and the thechoice for me was when I looked
at what was required from theCWB.
I have a Red Seal ticket, Ihave a welding engineering
technologist, I have aninspector's license.
I have so many years in thefield you guys do look at

(38:29):
mechanical and materials and soI thought, okay, mechanical you
know, the weld-edge tech isreally specialized and it gives
me a designation, right.
So that's why I went tech andthen the mechanical.
I could either go to Waterloo,I could go to U of A.
I wouldn't come out as adesignated weld-edge, I'd come

(38:51):
out as a materials-edge with acertificate.
But I wouldn't come out as amaterials eng with a certificate
.
But I wouldn't come out as adesignated wild eng.
And it's another four yearsversus.
I can come out as a mechanicalengineer in two or two and a bit
.
I thought, okay, let's do thetwo and a bit, Then I'll apply
on a case by case.

(39:12):
And if that doesn't work, I canalways go do a master's, and if
I do a master's, and if I do amaster's I can go to england, I
can go um to places where thateducational, educational pathway
is really, really establishedfor welding engineering yeah,
one of the best in north americais in denver, hearing, if you
wanted to stay, I, I, I stayaway from the states, yeah I get
it.
There's which which is, butit's just it's always one of

(39:33):
those things.
the states have never been aplace that I stay away from.
The States, yeah, I get it, butit's just one of those things.
The States have never been aplace that I've wanted to go
live.
I love to go visit.
One of my other sisters livesdown in LA.
There's a lot of people.

Speaker 3 (39:49):
There's a lot of people in the UK too.

Speaker 2 (39:51):
But so for me?
I kind of looked at it andthought, okay, this gets me the
Eng degree.
My background and my othertickets give me the Weld Eng.
Realistically, too, even if Idon't want to go add more
education, I can work in weldingengineering.
I can apply for these jobsbecause I have so much
experience, because I have theseother designations, and you're

(40:12):
still really young.

Speaker 1 (40:13):
Yeah, and then now I also, you know, knock on wood, I
have these other designationsand you're still really young,
yeah.

Speaker 2 (40:16):
And then now I also you know the knock on wood, I
haven't finished it yet Shouldhopefully also have a PNG.

Speaker 3 (40:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (40:24):
Right, so come out and then get my professional
designation after.
And so for me it was like OK,there's no set pathway that's
super well established in Canadato get the welding engineering.
This is the way I think isgoing to work best for me,
because I also wanted to startreally specialized, because I am
a welder and I was like I knowwhat I want to come back for.

(40:44):
I want to start specialized.
Sait to me looked the mostspecialized off of the bat that
it was.
The whole program was focusedon welding engineering right.

Speaker 3 (40:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (40:55):
It was really, really , that's what its goal was, um.
So I was like okay, that's whatI'm going to start with, we'll
try the transfer, we'll get theengineering degree, whatever it
is, and we'll go from there,right that's not, it's not that
uncommon like.

Speaker 1 (41:09):
I know quite a few welders that got their red seals
that ended up engineers andthey're they're like my favorite
engineers I've worked withbecause we speak the same lingo.
You know what I mean.
It's like we can.
We can talk up, like I can talkthe talk of the high game, but
I can also talk down and talkthe talk of, like, the floor
game.

Speaker 2 (41:28):
You know like, and that's really valuable right
yeah, the middle, the middle andalso I feel like hopefully the
goal is that you can bridge it alittle bit right, that you you
can help the guys that you'veworked with on the floor and you
can help your kind of newercolleagues on the engineering
side understand and you know, ifall goes well, hopefully you

(41:50):
may get a bit better foreverybody and everyone goes and
has beers together and yeah, andthey walked off into the sunset
.

Speaker 1 (41:59):
Engineers and others hand in hand someday.
We can dream.
We can dream, all right.
Well, let's take the break forour commercials and supporters
and advertisers right now, andwhen we get back here with
andrea armstrong, who's out inbc, we're going to be talking
about what she does now for aliving, her day day-to-day, and
then what's in the possiblefuture, because I'd imagine

(42:21):
there's some thoughts there.
So don't go anywhere here onthe CWB Association podcast.
We'll be right back.
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And we're back here on the CWBAssociation podcast.
My name is Max Charon and I'mhere with Andrea Armstrong,
who's coming to us from thebeautiful West coast of Canada
and BC.
So right before the break wekind of caught up to where you

(44:10):
are in your educational, youknow, journey.
You're right on the cusp ofgetting into the legit
engineering program and getworking on that mechanical
engineering degree.
What's the?
What's the hope, you know?
Cause there's once you get tothis level of education?
There's kind of a couple ofthings.
One is R and D right.

(44:30):
There's there's a desire forpeople to want to go down the R
and D train, which is like kindof like top tier but way less
work in the R&D world than inother you know more, I guess
tactile industries.
And then the other piece is tobe like the engineer, the
retained engineer for a shop,but whether it's a foundry
working with steels, or you knowconstruction working with

(44:52):
steels, or you know constructionworking with procedure
development and whatever, whereis it that you see your role
evolving into as you worktowards this education?

Speaker 2 (45:03):
I think there's a couple paths, and I don't know
if any of them are solidified.
I also just don't think that'show I've usually gone about
things.
If I have places and goals forwhere I want to be and the type
of work that I want to do, Idon't know what that's going to
look like yet and I'm reallyopen to something coming out of
left field and being like oh, Ihad no idea this was on the

(45:26):
horizon but like, yeah, sure,let's give her um, because I
also think that's how I got intotrades was being like, what's
this great thing to the corner?
so I've never and I've, I've,you know, I've had so much joy
in my career from something thatwasn't on my radar.
But yeah, so I I think I havesome goals for myself.
I've said some places or ideasof where I would want to go um,

(45:48):
but also, we'll see.
We'll see where it goes and Ithink I think we hit one of them
on the head, which was r&d yeah, well, r&d is like the
beautiful science, right?

Speaker 1 (45:56):
Because you spend your day playing and proving and
finding things that hopefullymay not be found Now.
Most of the people I know thatare young engineers going down
the R&D train.
That turns into a master's,that turns into a PhD, that
turns into a whole other world,which I think is wonderful.
But it gets you further andfurther away from the floor.

(46:19):
Are you ready to be away fromthe floor Like, are you okay if
that chapter of your life moveson and you end up on the dream
team like some crazy, likethere's think tanks in Canada,
like InnoTech and places thatall they do is wild dreamy
metallurgy stuff all day long,right?

Speaker 2 (46:39):
um, yes and no, I find to, at least from what I've
seen and, like I said, very newto this side of the field and
new to the engineering side of alot of I.
I kind of look at it the sameas like when I looked at some
other shops.
There's more variety and it'salmost more hands-on engineering
.
That in some ways, yes, it'svery removed from shop floor and

(47:00):
from production and frommanufacturing, but in other ways
it's brand new.
It's research.
You have to physically do it.

Speaker 1 (47:07):
And it's a real problem.

Speaker 2 (47:08):
And there's not a lot of production engineering where
they're going down and buildingthe thing of production
engineering, where they're goingdown and building the thing,
and that's where I would be okaywith it, because I'm a
tradesman and I'm a tradesman atheart and and so if you're
telling me I can do the scienceand then physically build it
with my hands and do the work insome type of aspect, I like

(47:31):
that idea.
I like that idea of it stillbeing a hands-on part.
It's why I really like lab workas well, like I really enjoy lab
work and destructive testingand actually doing it right,
Like of breaking the samples andpolishing them and doing the
work and doing the science andkind of some of the like work
with it.

Speaker 1 (47:50):
All right.
So you know the R&D dream.
It's true, because when you getto the kind of PhD level of R&D
, you're doing things thathaven't been done before.
So half the battle is evenfiguring out the machinery to do
the things that you need to do,that you think you need to do.
You know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (48:09):
And so that's where that, that to me, would still be
appealing, even though it's soremoved, obviously.
The other thing is that, likeI've, I've come back to work for
C-SPAN each summer, where thatthat to me, would still be
appealing even though it's soremoved, um, obviously.
The other thing, uh, is that,like I've, I've come back to
work for c-span each summer, um,I've been shipbuilding in
canada, uh, for most of mycareer, um, and so I would love
to stay in shipbuilding and Iwould love to keep building

(48:31):
boats and I'd love to do you seedifferent sides of what that
looks like, um, and I've seen acouple sides of it, but I would
love to see more of that, and we, I would love to see new boats
and I really want to be part ofthe polar that you know,
canada's putting forward polarships, so I really want to be
part of that.

(48:51):
So there I have a lot of goalswithin ship building and if they
will take me back, hopefullywithin c-span um are you a part
of any of the shipbuildingassociations, um for
construction in canada, becausethere's some really cool ones.

Speaker 1 (49:06):
Like there's a big conference in vancouver in just
a few weeks here, uh, the abcmi,the, the or the.
Oh, let me see um, and I wentto this one and I've been to a
meritech meritech is a year thatone's is.
Uh is amazing um I've never been, but I would really want to go

(49:27):
to, and that's the thing forsomeone who's like engineering
heavy and really intoshipbuilding.
You got to go to these.
So the association of britishcolumbia marine industries,
abcmi, looked them up.
They got a conference coming upright away, uh, nbc and uh, and
, like I said, they're reallyreally great people at these

(49:50):
things.
Right, because, because you'resurrounded by people with the
same love for you and I.
Actually, I just read thewrite-up for the conference
coming up in Vancouver and itsounds like it's going to be a
lot about defense contracts andpossible future shipbuilding on
the West Coast.
Maritech goes back and forth toWest-East, so if it's East it's
Irving, if it's West it'sC-SPAN, kind of like the back

(50:11):
and forth.
But the science and technologygoing into ship building is
rapidly accelerating because itkind of got left behind for a
long time it was like oh, weknow how to build ships, there's
nothing wrong with them,they're great, let's just build
them bigger and bigger andbigger and bigger.
But now I think in the modernworld we're looking at
engineering opportunities bettermaterials, lighter materials,

(50:35):
because how often do you usealuminum on a large scale,
industrial boat Like never, but,you know, because there's not
those opportunities.
Well, maybe there's othermaterials that could be lighter
and safer and more usable.
I uh, I'm going off on atangent now, but I was watching
them at one of the marineconferences.

(50:56):
I went to a new process wherethey use cold spray welding but
they're not using metal littleshot.
They're using, like a type ofmetal plastic compound.
That is not.
It won't corrode under the saltwater.
So this is because the shaftthat goes from inside to outside
is always a huge wearer placefor for boats, because it's a

(51:18):
transition from oil to salt, andthis material would protect all
the stuff without wearing off.
And see, stuff like this islike that's cool stuff.
You know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (51:29):
Like no, and there's really cool stuff and I know for
me like a lot of what I got tosee at c-span was like robotics,
like welding robotics at workis wild um and being able to be
a robotics operator and thenbeing able to do a lot of the
technical writing for like workinstructions.
Um was a lot of like how I firststarted transitioning into

(51:54):
engineering sides.
Um was, from this like being awelder and then welding robotics
operator.
Um, and so, yeah, a lot of that.
And that's where another partof like going the mechanical
route of like okay, I can, I canlearn more and I can fall on my
kind of laurels here for a lotof the welding stuff and I can

(52:14):
always go back and add moreeducation if I need to.
But Lord knows, I don't knowanything about what's actually
doing the robotics welding andthat's where the mechanical
engineering the last two yearsof studying specialized with
weld-engine first and then doingmechanical.
That's one of the other thingsI really want to look at is
those huge welding roboticsystems.

(52:34):
Yeah, the automation systemsthat are coming out now, yeah,
they're like yeah, no, they are,they are just the coolest
things um they are.
I also.
I feel like everyone uh, thatis a human gives their robots
names yeah, that's a thing.
Yeah, yeah, they're.
I feel like any type oftechnology you work with every
single day, it has to have aname you already have names

(52:57):
picked out in your head for whenyou get a robot.
Absolutely I do.
One of them will be TheodoreIII.

Speaker 3 (53:04):
I don't know why no one's named?

Speaker 2 (53:06):
Theodore in my family , but I will have a robot named
Theodore III TNT.

Speaker 1 (53:09):
TNT.
All right, that's maybe my namegoal for education.

Speaker 2 (53:13):
I've actually done you you know with the trade,
let's say you know four years doyou have your favorite welding?

Speaker 1 (53:19):
machine years, nine years of education to name a
robot as I think a suitable goalwell, you know, I uh, when I
had all my years up I think itwas about 13 years of schooling
um, and I'm still going like Imean, there's still courses that
pop up in my world and I'm likeI'm gonna take that.
That looks really interesting,right like um.

(53:40):
But uh, I don't have a robotand I've never named it.
I don't know if I've named anyof my welding machines.
Is there something wrong withme that I haven't?
yeah, definitely that you shouldbe a little bit concerned yeah,
I have some deep trauma that Ineed to work on.
Yeah, you do absolutely, that'sactually.

Speaker 2 (54:00):
You know I'm a little shaken on the call yeah, I'm
sorry for the people listening.

Speaker 1 (54:03):
Please send me help, like I think we need to get you
googly eyes to put on yourwelding machines, because then I
think, you would name it, Ithink if we gave them little
human like features more animalfeatures, because I love cats.
Maybe if it had cat ears on itI'd name it something.
And I have a turtle, I love myturtle, I love turtles.
Well, the machines kind of looklike turtles.

Speaker 2 (54:24):
There we go now it's see, I'm forming something.
It's going, it's coming, it'scoming.
It just took a minute I justsent you in a chat.

Speaker 1 (54:30):
Just by the way, I just sent you a chat I saw that
abcmi it's actually theconference is sponsored by
c-span, so I bet if you talk tothem that they could send you be
like, hey, go check it out.
Liz is usually at there at themthat.

Speaker 2 (54:41):
She's usually one of the people presenting, so I said
to say I think liz does go tothem.
I think I've heard her talkabout some of the conferences
before, unfortunately for me, Ithink it's like right in the
middle of my school oh, that'susually that's usually where I
don't end up going to a hugeamount of conferences with going
back to school.
But I was able to get to the CCWest conference.

Speaker 1 (55:03):
Oh nice.

Speaker 2 (55:04):
And that was really interesting and that was very
cool and just seeing women fromkind of around Canada and all
the different stuff that theywere doing.

Speaker 1 (55:13):
So let's talk a little bit before we get to the
end of the interview, becausewe've already blown through an
hour just so you know like it'sthis is going so fast.
It's awesome as a woman now,you know, getting up into like
the higher echelon of yourcareer.
You, you've proven.
The proof is in the pudding orin the puddle.

Speaker 3 (55:35):
And how about you know?
Your wealth proof is in thepuddle.

Speaker 1 (55:38):
I like that in your world, yeah and uh, but now the,
the welding engineeringtechnician, level one inspector,
now back to college foruniversity.
At some point do you seeyourself as a female mentor
yourself?
Like, are you looking atyourself as a mentor yet?
Because I can tell you from theoutside that you are, but you

(56:03):
don't really cross that lineuntil you feel it.
Because I remember where I wasat a point where I was realizing
a lot of people at work wereasking me questions and asking
me for advice and I'd be workingwith engineers and at one point
I was like you know what?
I think I crossed the line.
I think now I'm the personpeople ask for help instead of
me asking others.
Right, do you feel like that?

(56:25):
You're getting there or youwant to be there?

Speaker 2 (56:28):
I definitely want to be there eventually.
I think it's very specific forme because I've gone back to
school and it's I've gone backand I've done.
It's related, but it's a switchand because of that I'm learning
again and I am green again andI am making mistakes again, and

(56:50):
so there are certain things thatwhen I, especially when I get,
and then then in another way tooI've I've gone into this and so
I feel like I'm getting a bitfarther from like active shop
floor stuff, It'll have someapprentices like ask me
something, and I'm like, oh,it's been a minute, Like let me
look this up, I'm gonna need togo pull all my settings again
and let you know scrollingthrough the phone so I think I'm

(57:18):
in a bit of a middle groundright now of where, in some ways
, I do feel that, um, and thenin other ways, I feel like I'm
brand new again.
Um right, I don't think that'llever end for you.

Speaker 1 (57:31):
I get the feeling like you're just gonna be an
education dragon.
Someone called me that becauselike you're just gonna be an
education dragon.
Someone called me that becauselike he whored education.
You just keep like oh learnmore.
It's mine, it's my cave ofknowledge, um, but that doesn't
mean that you don't representand I'm trying to put the bug in
you now to become more involvedwith the youth, because your

(57:52):
path, your pathways, even to nowrepresent a huge obstacle for
many people women and men, allgenders of getting out of a
trade and into somethingeducation wise, or getting out
of education and back into atrade.
And you're showing like thatwall's not as big as people
think it is right it's yeah, andit's it is.

Speaker 2 (58:13):
It was a hard transition.
It definitely was.
It was a.
It was a hard transition forculture.
It was a hard transition, um,for confidence of going back to
an educational setting, um.
So there it definitely is.
There's, there's some fearthere and there was, for sure,
fear for me.
I was, you know, scared out ofmy wits, but I I looked at it, I
was like, oh, I really want todo this.

(58:35):
It's's interesting, I want tosee where it goes.
So we're going to, we're goingto try, we're going to give her
the college try.
And I think one of the thingsthat really helped me was having
the red seal because I thought,okay, if I fail, if everything
goes down, put all this moneyout.
I'm fine, I'm fine, I got a.
I got a, a ticket, I gotmultiple tickets.
I'm gonna be okay.

(58:55):
Like worst case scenario is notterrible, yeah, and if it means
the school takes a bit longerthere's no, that's fine if I
need to go pick up shutdownsduring the summer.
Okay, that's okay.
So I think for me oh sorry, uhthis.
So for me, I think a lot of thetransition that made it easier

(59:15):
was traits yeah was that I waslike okay, I'm confident in one
thing it makes me some money.
I'm gonna be okay, this is I, Ihave the ability to go do this,
and it's one of the things thatI do say now, especially, uh,
especially, to women.
I say it to men as, but mostlyfor women, because I find that
it's not something we're taughtabout as much.

(59:38):
Of like when I'm having, youknow, my kind of nieces and
nephews or friends, kids who arecoming to this point of end of
high school, graduating, andthey're asking for advice and
they're not too sure what theywant to do.
I'm like go get a trade.
Go get a trade first, and ifyou want to go get more
education you have the luxury todecide you can do it, but but

(01:00:02):
there's nothing wrong with withstarting at a trade, there's
nothing wrong with starting inuniversity, but that that is
university a lot more expensive,a lot slower.
Before you.
You know you have any sort oftickets or backing that you can
work on Um, and so I've been.
That's been a big one, that it'sbeen really cool to see um some

(01:00:23):
, some like younger womenstarting to be like, yeah, I'm
trades and that doesn't meanthat you know trades and
education is separate, and Ithink that was maybe the cool
one for me was like I've seen alot of people be like oh, I was
bad at school, so I'm going togo get a trade, and I'm like
what's that have to do with it?

Speaker 1 (01:00:42):
Yeah, also, there's so much math in my trade.

Speaker 2 (01:00:47):
There's so much so many of the smartest people I've
met are welders Go away, like Ithere's you know, It's's a bias
that's not necessarily realright yeah, and it's one of
those things of like a lot of, Ithink a lot of the reason
traits work well for people,that why they worked well.
For me, they're a differenttype of education people learn

(01:01:07):
differently you learn hands-onand that works a lot better.
And maybe you find out you're alot better at learning math and
learning trigonometry and anglesif you're measuring the angles
and seeing how they react witheach other when you're building
a staircase maybe that works foryou.

Speaker 1 (01:01:22):
It worked well for me so you know we're getting close
to the end of the interview.
At this part of the interviewnormally I ask people like end
game, where do you want to be?
What do you want to do longterm?
But I feel like we've alreadykind of figured that out about
andrea, shipbuilding, r&d,something rad.
Okay, got it, that's.
That's basically your, that'syour window and there's going to

(01:01:45):
be something in there thatyou'll probably get now in terms
of you know the, the goals thatyou have.
You know outside ofprofessionally, like you want to
be an engineer and you want todo these things.
But what are the things thatyou would like to see yourself
play out in terms of other rolesas you get older?
Do you see yourself as abusiness owner?

(01:02:06):
Do you see yourself as aconsultant?
Do you see yourself as ateacher?
You know, are these any of thepieces that have crossed your
mind?

Speaker 2 (01:02:15):
I think they're all definitely thoughts.
I think I'm far enough awayfrom a lot of them right now
that it's just kind of like okay, this is the next step here,
let's get that done.
I think one of the things thatI would love to see and it ties
in to the R&D that I would loveto be a part of is lab work and
lab manager and starting thosethings and I could see business

(01:02:37):
owner and I could see all thosethings.
But I think for for the stuffthat I like to do, you gotta be
with big companies you have tobe where you need to be with
government.

Speaker 1 (01:02:49):
Where the money is, like the, like the NRC labs or
anything.

Speaker 2 (01:02:52):
Yeah, and cause I want to do cool things, and so I
think it's have you been to theNRC lab in Vancouver?
No.

Speaker 1 (01:03:06):
I haven want to do cool things and so I think it's.
Have you been to the nrc lab invancouver?
No, I haven't been in.
Oh dude, that's cool, I've seenphotos of it.
Next time I'm out there, Ialways go visit one of the
doctors there, the the phd weldengineers that works there.
Uh, mr zhao, he always gives mea tour and shows me all the
coolest thing.

Speaker 2 (01:03:14):
I should give you a ring next time I'm in vancouver
and I'll take you on a tour ofthat place that is so cool yeah
they got some cool toys in therethey're so cool, but so I think
that style of work for rightnow I I really like this idea of
of shipbuilding, but it's alsolike rovs and deep sea research.

(01:03:36):
Um, I'm lucky enough, I have agreat partner who is a pure
scientist and who does deep seawork and works with ROVs, and so
starting to see that kind ofstuff and working actually works
on all the Coast Guard vesselsthat C-SPAN builds.

Speaker 1 (01:03:55):
So everything's tied together.

Speaker 2 (01:03:57):
Everything's intertwined and there are a lot
of aspects that I could seehappening, but I think we're
just gonna see as we go yeah andI, you know, not say no to any
of them and just see, see whereit ends up, because I think
it'll end up somewhere cool,although I will actually.
I do have have one that, um, Iwill gladly buy you a bottle of
scotch, whatever you want, ifyou know anyone that explosives

(01:04:21):
I would at one point in my lifeWant to see that.
That's the one process.
I want to see it.
I want to do it At one point Idon't need to do it multiple
times.
I would like to see explosivewelding happening.

Speaker 1 (01:04:34):
We'll see what I can do.
We'll have to stay in touch.

Speaker 2 (01:04:40):
Because that to me, I realize it's so far away from
like my own personal goals andlike my career building.

Speaker 1 (01:04:44):
Yeah, but it's so cool it is it's so intense and
even though the way yeah, I wasabout to say the way it welds it
with the swirls, like it getsthose crazy swirls and eddies,
it's like what it like crochetsitself to the other metal, like
it's wild.

Speaker 2 (01:05:02):
I first like really learned about it in my eng tech
and I was like this was anoption that no one spoke to me
about.
You're telling me I could havean explosives ticket as a welder
.
Like where was this information?

Speaker 1 (01:05:16):
bcit.
All right, let's let's wrap upthe interview here.
Andrea, this has been fantastic, but you know, let's do a
hypothetical here, because itsounds like you've had a really
adventurous career path, which Ilove and I applaud and I
recommend to anybody out thereto be adventurous.

(01:05:38):
Don't be scared, just get outthere and try.
Be adventurous, don't be scared, just get out there and try.
But if you could, knowing whatyou know now in your life, you
know and the experiences you'vehad and there's quite a few
could go back to right beforeyou started the, the welding
program, your first weldingprogram.
What advice would you giveyourself to prepare for the
journey you know now that youwent down, what advice would you
give yourself to prepare forthe journey you know?

(01:05:59):
Now that you went down, whatadvice would you give yourself
if you go back, like in thattime machine?

Speaker 2 (01:06:07):
I would get more tickets than what I did I would
say, go go to alec, get as manytickets as you can get.
Because I got into this view oflike I'm a welder and I want to
make money and I'm 19 and soI'm going to go to shutdowns and
I'm going to stick weld and I'mjust going to chase shutdowns,
and who really cares about theeducational side of the welding?
I don't need my a ticket.

(01:06:28):
You know I'm working inshutdowns, I'm working stick
weld and I don't need it.
And I think I would have toldmyself take the time off, take
the paychecks off, like it's.
You will have so much fun withthe more wild experiences that
you have and the more ticketsthat you have, um, and the more
versatility that you have as awelder.

Speaker 1 (01:06:48):
I think it really does open up different jobs, it
really does and it's just coolstuff and I and I do.

Speaker 2 (01:06:55):
It is one of those things like I I wish I had done,
you know, more alloyed and morelike pipe and TIG welding.
But I got into this thing thatI was like, well, I want to make
money and I have, you know, theshutdowns and the stick welding
jobs, so that's what I'm goingto do.
And then C-SPAN was mostly fluxcore and they do have a great
pipe crew.
But and I know that if I hadgone back for my A, you could

(01:07:21):
have done that and I could havedone it within the company.
But I left for my education.
I left for a different side, um, but I I think I would have
definitely told myself that, hey, yes, welding you can make a
lot of money, but that's notwhat it should be about that you
take the time and enjoy andenjoy the education of it.

Speaker 1 (01:07:38):
Um um.

Speaker 2 (01:07:39):
All the different experiences, all the different
things yeah, all the differentsides of it.
I'm trying to think of whatelse I would say to myself.
I would probably say slow downyeah, so I got my well, no,
physically.
Physically I moved too fast asan apprentice and I got told by
a lot of older welders and I gothurt a couple of times.

(01:08:01):
And I think I would have justtold my younger self of like
slow the speed down, be saferthan what you're being.

Speaker 1 (01:08:09):
Yeah, you're going to hurt yourself or somebody else.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:08:11):
Just just ditch it back a notch.

Speaker 3 (01:08:14):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:08:15):
I think would have been.
Would have been a much less,like you know, exciting one, but
would have just been like youneed to stop moving so quickly.
Your grinder is not donerunning.
Like you look dumb, you'vealmost taken out poor Bob.
Like slow down a little bitChill out.
It's okay.

(01:08:36):
But yeah, I think the big onewould just be like you know, yes
, you know, trey, yes, you wantto go out and make money and get
your hours and work, but youknow, be okay with coming back
and doing more tickets andreally push yourself to go, get
as many designations as you canget, Right, because that's the
other thing of like you know, Iwelded pipe but didn't sit

(01:08:56):
through my pressure pipesBecause I was like you know, I
welded pipe but didn't sitthrough my pressure pipes Cause.
I was like well, again, you know, I'm working chip.

Speaker 1 (01:09:02):
I got work.

Speaker 2 (01:09:04):
And I I wish I would have done that.
I wish I would have gone hey,here's this super cool welding
ticket or whatever.
They're just more tickets andthey give me more versatility.
Um, and I did start to do thatonce I was later on in my
apprenticeship and once I was ared seal, but not pressure pipe,
but, like you know, being moreopen to doing different sides of

(01:09:24):
the industry.
But I think that would be a bigone and I think what I would
tell a lot of youngerapprentices of like, you're
going to have work and it'sgoing to be awesome and you're
going to get these paychecks andyou're going to want to just go
, but make sure that you'rekeeping up on the education side
and keeping open and make sureyou're keeping up with your
designations and your tickets.

Speaker 1 (01:09:43):
That's great advice and it's very, very true.
It's very, very true and Ithink most of the welders that I
know, you know later in life asyou start looking back, the
welders that really workthemselves into great jobs,
great positions, great places,cool programs and jobs and
projects, are the ones that tookthe time to learn a new thing
get the new ticket, learn theprocedure, understand what

(01:10:05):
you're doing.
They're the ones that climbquicker than the ones that are
just hammering it out, which Iget.
Everyone's got a differentskill set and I've always been
able like I mean, I'm a prettygood welder, but there's always
someone better right.
So you got gotta pick yourbattles and see where your niche
is right and I think maybe Iwould be the the last.

Speaker 2 (01:10:26):
I know we're running out of time here, but the last
one I would say is once it wasfunny once I got my red seal, I
felt like I learned a lot morefrom other people and I think
because as an apprenticeespecially as a young apprentice
and a young woman apprentice Ihad a bit of a chip about like
yeah, I know how to do that.

Speaker 1 (01:10:42):
No.

Speaker 3 (01:10:43):
I'm good.

Speaker 2 (01:10:43):
I'm good and I hate it when I see young people do
that.

Speaker 1 (01:10:47):
They're like yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm good, I'm like,
but are you really, are you?

Speaker 2 (01:10:50):
really Well, and the thing is is like I never said
that I knew something if Ididn't, something if I didn't.
But I thought like, yeah, I can, you know I can do a fill weld
with a stick.
I know how to do that.
Why would I watch someone else?
And then, as I got older intomy apprenticeship, and then once
I got my red seal, watchingguys that yeah, we're doing the
same weld, it holds to the sameamount.

(01:11:12):
But oh my god, are theyfantastic at it.
And just having the bit ofhumility of like, yeah, I am a
ticketed welder and I'm allthese things.
He's amazing and I'm going tosit and I'm going to put my hood
on and I'm going to see howhe's doing that and watch, um,
and be open to, to being thatright Cause I was always really

(01:11:32):
good about not saying I could dosomething if I didn't
understand it, but I also wasreally bad in the way that once
I did understand it, even at abasic level, I was like cool, no
more need to watch and listenand learn to to the point that
it's at this, this differentlevel you're like done with it
right.
I was like, yeah, I can fill itout, great, I, you know, I can

(01:11:54):
open root great.
Instead of, you know, havingthat to sit and watch and be
like I'm going to keep learningand I'm going to keep learning,
you know, until I retire.
There's always going to bethere's always going to be a
better welder than me, andthere's always going to be
people that are willing to showme a different way to do

(01:12:14):
something.
I think that was one of theones that I really wish I would
have known a bit younger.

Speaker 1 (01:12:19):
I think I would have been a much better welder.
Awesome, andrea.
Well, this has been a greatepisode.
Thank you so much for takingthe time today to tell us your
story, and I think there's a lotpeople can take out of this
package and say you know theycan apply it to their own lives
because you know you are runningat 100 miles an hour and, and
good for you, man, it's uh it'sa hard pace, uh, and do it while

(01:12:44):
you can right.
It gets uh harder to do it whenyou're older.
So you're you're doing the rightthings, uh, thanks for being on
the show thank you so much, max, lovely to meet you yeah, you
bet, and any shout outs you'dlike to send out to anybody your
hellos um, uh, steven kenny atstate, my first metallurgy
instructor.

Speaker 2 (01:13:01):
I'm so sorry I asked you so many questions.
Uh, he has been a huge mentor.
There are so many people I seespan, like liz newfeld, is one
of them who I'm like.
Thank you so much.
There are so many people thattouch my career um, but
definitely off the bat my firstmetallurgy instructor, because I
feel so sorry for that poor manso many questions all the time

(01:13:25):
I do.
I still email him questions.
I have not been in that programfor a little bit now.

Speaker 3 (01:13:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:13:31):
And he still emails me back answers, because he's a
kind man.

Speaker 1 (01:13:34):
Yeah, well, I have students reach out to me all the
time and I love replying tothem.
I love that they still think ofme.
It makes me feel good, awesome,all right.
So all the people that havebeen following and watching and
downloading our podcast, pleasecontinue.
We love what you're doing.
We're doing lots of movementsout there.
We got lots of programs comingup.

(01:13:55):
We're going to be down inFabtech USA in Orlando in
October.
We're going to be down inFabtech USA in Orlando in
October.
We're going to be at the AWMIconference in November in
Nashville.
We're going to be probablytaking the Roadshow podcast with
a few other places throughoutthe year.
The chapters are revving up.
There's going to be chapterevents happening in every
province across Canada and youknow what we're all getting out
there.

(01:14:15):
We're networking, we'rementoring, we're helping out the
community and that's what it'sall about.
So appreciate you tuning intothe podcast, keep downloading
them, commenting us and if youhave anything you'd like us to
talk about, topic wise, or ifyou think you know someone cool
that you'd like me to interview,just shoot me a message on
Instagram I'm askmax75 on IG orreach out to the CWB Association

(01:14:37):
anytime.
We're always around and we'realways looking for great stories
, so thanks a lot Tune in forthe next one.
I'll catch you there.
We hope you enjoy the show.

Speaker 3 (01:14:57):
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