Replay with Josh Brewster and Max Ceron

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
All right, I check, check, good.
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Happy welding.
Hello and welcome to anotheredition of the CWB Association
podcast.
My name is Max Teran and, asalways, I am out there scraping

(01:08):
and digging and looking for thebest talent I could find to
bring on the podcast.
Today I have the privilege ofbringing on a good friend of
mine, someone that I've knownfor years now, in and out of the
industry, and an ambitious,fantastic man that I've met,
josh Brewster.
How are you doing, my friend?

Speaker 2 (01:25):
I'm doing well.
Thanks, max.
Thanks for having me on today.

Speaker 1 (01:27):
I appreciate it.
I've been waiting for the righttime.
You could have been on thispodcast 10 times by now with the
career you've had and all thezigs and the zags that you've
taken over the last decade.

Speaker 2 (01:41):
Yeah, absolutely.
It's been a dynamic 15 or so orso years.
Yeah, it's been uh, aninteresting ride, to say the
least, for sure you bet.

Speaker 1 (01:49):
So, josh, you are the uh associate dean at SAIT for
the aviation and technologydepartment, correct?
Yeah, yeah, I am yep.
And but, more importantly,because this is how we met right
at the start, you're a welder,I am yes, right, right.
So let's met right at the start.

Speaker 2 (02:04):
You're a welder?
I am yes.

Speaker 1 (02:06):
Right, right.
So let's go right to thebeginning.
Like where were you born?
Where's your roots?
Tell us about the origins.
Origin story of Josh.

Speaker 2 (02:14):
Sure, max, so I'll start somewhere close to home
for you.
So I'm I'm originally fromSaskatchewan, so I was born in
Prince Albert and I had my firstyears out there.
My family owned a smallbusiness and we actually owned a
trailer park for a period oftime and I grew up there on a

(02:36):
small acreage.
When I was just in grade one,we moved to Alberta.
My dad saw opportunity out herein Alberta, like a lot of
people did, and, uh, he made thedecision to move the family um,
out here and um, I I took mygrade school, uh, just South of
Calgary and Okotoks and, uh,that that was pretty uneventful,

(02:58):
honestly played some sports.
I know you and I were justchatting about hockey and uh and
uh, you know, and I were justchatting about hockey and uh and
uh, you know, got into highschool where I didn't really
have a clear path forward.
Um, I had a lot of friends, Ihad a lot of fun, but, you know,
coming out of grade 10 andgoing into grade 11, there
wasn't a clear path for me.
Um, my family, uh, wasn'treally big on university or

(03:21):
post-secondary in general.
We were hardworking people withsmall businesses, construction,
you know, heavy equipment, allthat sort of stuff, and I really
appreciated those roots and Ihad no real intentions on going
into any type of post-secondaryat all.
I guess the path really changedwhen I was, I believe, in grade

(03:42):
11.
I was looking for courses tofill my course load in high
school, and I was looking forthings that were different than
the, you know, your big four,your English language, your
social studies, your mathematics, etc.
I really wanted to do somethingin the shops and so I was really
fortunate where our local highschool, that's the Foothills

(04:03):
Composite High School in Okotoks, they have an incredible,
incredible trades program, sothey have an entire wing of that
building that was devoted tohands-on learning, and so, just
going off of memory, the firstshop on the left was actually an
art studio and they did a lotof really neat art abstracts,

(04:25):
paintings, sculptures, all sortsof cool stuff.
That wasn't really what drew mein, but I know that they were
very busy.
The next shop was a woodworkingshop and it was very impressive
, very well organized, verylarge, and they produced a ton
of graduates that went into thetrades out of there.
And then the last two were theones that I engaged in a little

(04:47):
bit more, and the second to lastwas the welding, and I'll talk
about that a little bit more ina minute.
And then the last one ismechanics, and so I filled my
schedule as best I could withthat hallway, if you will.
And I took the woodworking Itook the welding and I took the
mechanics and when, um, when I,when I, when I took the welding,
there was something that thatreally spoke to me, um, I

(05:08):
thought it was just absolutemagic and maybe it still is
today uh, that you could, youcould pick up a, you know, uh, a
welding gun or a stinger andyou can weld upside down, up
down, sideways, and all theseprocesses, just, you know,
modified, joined, cut metal,like it was.
It was nothing.
I just I thought that was thecoolest thing ever.

(05:31):
So, um, I really gravitatedtowards the welding and I, I
gotta give credit, there, wherethere was a, a really eager, uh,
instructor.
He was, I think, pretty new tothe role at the time.
His name was vir Virgil Greenand, um, he had come from
industry, uh, happened to have a, a bachelor's degree.
So they, they brought him intothe teaching role and they, they
gave him the welding shop and,uh, I'll I'll never forget the

(05:53):
first day I saw welding.
It was Virgil Green, uh,leaning over an old beat up
table with a stray arcs all overit, uh, and he showed us, uh,
how to weld with some 60, 10,and that smell and that, that
vision of him welding for thefirst time.
Um, I I hope that that'll bewith me for for all my days.

Speaker 1 (06:10):
Uh, it was super cool , well it's so interesting how
you bring up, you know, the theinitial experience with welding.
I mean it sounds like youreally had a good opportunity.
This shop sounds fantastic LikeI got to visit this place.
Like you know I'm.
Sounds like you really had agood opportunity.
This shop sounds fantastic likeI gotta visit this place.
Like you know, I'm gonna haveto stop in there.

Speaker 2 (06:27):
It sounds like a magnificent school yeah, it is
it, uh, it's produced.
Uh, at when, when I went backthere a couple years ago right
before the pandemic, they, they,they tried to get a copy of all
the journeyman certificate thatbasically came from that
location and they had, I think,two walls in an office covered
in um in journeymancertifications.
Wow, for welding, and I thoughtthat was that was just

(06:48):
phenomenal, right.
So to see the people go outthere and then the people come
back and help the studentspractice for skills.
Uh, it was.
It was super cool.
So, yeah, it's so fortunatejust to be in the right place.
You know, it could have easilygone to the Catholic high school
across town where greatfootball program but no trades
right, and so I feel very, veryfortunate.
For that, a lot of gratitude.
But, yeah, virgil, uh, virgilreally uh excited me and got me

(07:11):
into welding.
So, um, my kind of personalityis when I get into something I
want to do it 110%.
I decided that was uh the thingat the time and, uh, yeah, I
practiced a lot and so I endedup, uh, uh, kind of stacking up
the courses and doing some ofthe more senior courses in the
junior year and ultimately I gottapped on the shoulder and
asked if I go to skills.
So the regional skillscompetition, um, participated in

(07:34):
skills as a grade 11, as agrade 12.
And really I think the thething that was cool there uh,
not only did you get torepresent the school and have
some pride in in your craft as a, you know, a grade 11 student,
but that's where I first went toSAIT, where I work today, and I
still remember that feeling aswell.

Speaker 3 (07:52):
It's funny how you remember odd things.

Speaker 2 (07:54):
I remember the smell of the Thomas Riley wing in the
green floor and it's just thefull sensory experience of going
to the big college and that'sreally where all the experts
lived and that was just such acool feeling to go there.
And so, uh, yeah, I, I was, I,I, I competed in skills, I think
four or five times, and umended up, uh, going to SAIT for

(08:16):
my apprenticeship after, afterthe high school, welding.

Speaker 1 (08:19):
So yeah, that was that started me off on the
welding path.

Speaker 2 (08:27):
How did you do in skills, you know, like, what's
the highest you placed?
Uh, I, I did win gold in highschool as a grade 11 and then
again as a grade 12.
Uh, when I competed at thepost-secondary level, I wasn't
quite successful.
I think I was on the podiumeach time.
I might have got fourth once,but, um, I never got first in
the post-secondary, I was alwayssecond or third.
So, um, you know, somethingelse I think is important is to
recognize your skills and thelimits of your skills and to be

(08:50):
humble.
And you know you always jokinglycan tell people you're the
second best welder.

Speaker 3 (08:54):
But you'll never be the best welder there's always
someone out there that hasbetter hand skills?
And that's a lesson.

Speaker 2 (08:59):
you know I've taken away from that for sure you
weren't looking to like.

Speaker 1 (09:03):
Pull a tanya harding on the first place, uh person,
and be like I'll see you outsidewith this iron bar no, uh, and
you know funny story about thecompetitors, right?

Speaker 2 (09:14):
um, I'll, uh, I'll throw another name out there.
So a good friend of mine atthis day, uh, mr john belay.
Uh, so john and I, um, we grewup together.
We knew each other in juniorhigh.
We both ended up in the weldingprogram in high school and we
kind of progressed together andit was hilarious because I'm
Josh Brewster and he's JohnBelay and we had the same
initials.
So it was really hard to tellthe skills projects apart.

(09:37):
We were neck and neck the wholetime and we had the same
initials.
So I think we started usingmiddle names to identify whose
projects were whose, but no, Iwent to school with such an
awesome group of people and Ilearned so much from the other
competitors from my high schoolinstructor, of course, and just
being at those competitions waswas just eye-opening for all of
the trades.
Uh, in general, right likethere's so many there.

(09:58):
When you go to those expocenters in edmonton and so on,
you you just had no idea whenyou're in high school.
It really opens your eyes.
So that's such an awesome,awesome program there.

Speaker 1 (10:08):
So at this point you're coming out of high school
, you've already kind of thrownthe bricks into the wheelbarrow
for welding.
Family's all good with this.
Family's like yeah, go for it,son.
You know like welding's yourniche, or was there any
deterrence?
Was your niche or?
Or?
Or was there any deterrence?
Was there any like, oh like I'mtrying to place the time how

(10:28):
long ago with this, becausealberta's very boom and bust
right.
So there's always like thetrades are awesome and then it's
like the trades are not awesomeyeah, you know where were you
in that cycle uh geez, thiswould have been like 2007 ish.

Speaker 2 (10:39):
I think so we were right before the big drop at
that time things were boomingbooming, yeah, and yeah, my
parents were super supportive ofit.
I think that they were justmore happy that I found a
purpose and I was doing you know, being very productive and
useful, and not, you know, on adifferent path.
So I think that they were proudand they had no idea that
skills existed either.
And so all of a sudden it'slike, hey, you're winning

(11:00):
competitions we didn't even knowthese existed.
And hey, you're winningcompetitions we didn't even know
these existed.
And, um, I think they werereally proud and all.
I also remember the.
I think I was in grade 11 and mydad bought me my first auto
darkening, welding helmet forchristmas and, um, it was an, I
think it was an op trial and, uh, I I'll never forget the color
of that helmet and getting thatas well.
So, yeah, just these people inyour life have such a impact and

(11:20):
so much gratitude for thoseindividuals, right so now you're
you're out of high school, wasit?

Speaker 1 (11:26):
I'm going straight to state to get into the first
welding program I can get into.
What was the plan?

Speaker 2 (11:31):
yeah, so, uh, funny story.
So I got a letter in the mailfrom nate, which is our, our
northern counterpart up inedmonton and nothing gets nate.
I've been there a lot of times.
Awesome programs yeah, so I musthave got my name from skills or
something, and they basicallysent me a letter saying hey, if
you come to NAIT, you know it'sI can't remember it was.
It was either free or they payfor part of the tuition, or

(11:51):
something like that.
And it was like, yeah, no wayI've been to SAIT, I've met the
instructors, they know my nameand of course it's half an hour
from where I live, not three anda half hours.
But uh, yeah, I went to SAITand uh yeah, really enjoyed the
apprenticeship.
Um, learned as much as I could,Phenomenal staff there, right

(12:12):
Like the labs were awesome, butit's always about the people and
and the their stories and theirexperiences.
So, yeah, so much gratitude forthe the welding staff.
They were phenomenal and, uh, Ithink that I think that they
still do a just an excellent jobto this day, and I'm thankful
for all the people that put upwith all of my questions, cause
I asked a lot of questions.

Speaker 1 (12:31):
Well, it's something that I think that Western Canada
has really, you know, done agood job of investing into for a
long time.
And you know, you, you, youknow as well as I do that we've
traveled across Canada.
We've seen lots of weldingprograms, lots of colleges and
their welding programs and inthe back of our minds, you know
the SAS, Paulies, the Nates, theStates.

(12:51):
We know that ours are big.
We got like, you know, we gosee somebody's star program and
they got 40 booths and like 40.
We got 80.
What are you talking about?
Like you're just a baby program, but States, states, a big deal
, like they got a lot ofinvestment and a lot, a lot of
programming that runs out ofthat college for the steel
trades yeah, yeah, we've beenfortunate.

Speaker 2 (13:12):
I mean, we've had some incredible donors and our
relationship with the governmenthas been great for for decades.
I mean the organization's over100 years old, so you know, I
think there's a lot of peoplethat went to SAIT, were super
successful in their careers andin business and then ultimately
come back to support theorganization and scale those
opportunities for others.
And you know, I got a sense ofwhat that feels like at some

(13:35):
level and we're so thankful forthose individuals.
Right, that's the goal is toready people for not only for a
job but for a career in life.
To ready people for not only fora job, but for a career in life
and to see that success andthen it ultimately come back to
benefit other people, otherstudents.
It's really neat to see, and Ido see that a lot in my current
role.
It's awesome Well it's.

Speaker 1 (13:53):
I love that you bring that up because I think that's
something in the universityacademic experience that
sometimes gets dropped in the,in the in the vocational
experience.
And what I mean is inuniversity you go through a
program, you become an alumni.
That alumni matters because youwant to support your alumni
even when you're long out ofuniversity and then as you

(14:15):
progress you kind of alwayspitch back to your alumni, like
you even see with athletes likeI went to college at this
college for football to supportthe college and then you hope
down the track they come back asinstructors with all this great
experience of what they did inthe world as professionals.
The trades don't seem to havethat connection as well, or some

(14:35):
colleges don't seem to havethat connection as well and you
don't see that long-term, Iguess, investment back into
where you studied.
Do you feel like SAIT does apretty good job of keeping
people kind of on the line?

Speaker 2 (14:50):
Yeah, I think we do and I think that any
organization is capable of it.
I have to tip my hat to ouralumni and development folks.
They have created an excellentcommunity there with a huge
footprint.
I believe we're I know we'reover a quarter million.
I think we're around 300,000alumni in the organization and
they're always nurturing andfostering those relationships.
And you know, I think it'simportant to whether it's a

(15:13):
post-secondary or any other sortof nonprofit.
You have to have a vision andyou have to.
You know when someone comes toyou or you go to somebody and
they're interested in supportingthe organization or what you're
doing, you have to have avision and if you don't, it
makes it really difficult forthem to align themselves with
that and support you.
So we do a really good job ofworking with our partners in

(15:34):
alumni and development in theorganization and I think that
some of the success we've seenis not only a testament to the
careers that we've produced fromour grads and our instructors,
but it's also all that hard workof building and maintaining
those relationships for fordecades.
So yeah, it takes a lot ofpeople to to move those
initiatives along and they'rethey're super exciting and

(15:54):
absolutely worth it, and theybenefit the students, um, you
know, by the thousands, andthat's, that's such a great
feeling.

Speaker 1 (16:00):
Yeah, okay, let's go back to you now, back at SAIT.
So for the listeners that arein Canada, we're all going to
know that Alberta has acompulsory apprenticeship
program for welding, which meansthat you got to go to school,
you got to be apprenticed andyou got to run through the
levels.
For the people that are in theUS and don't really understand

(16:22):
our apprenticeship program, it'sa very standardized format of
education.
I say that a little bittongue-in-cheek, because across
the provinces it's not all thesame, but pretty close.
Harmonization is an interestingword sometimes, but Alberta has
been consistently a leader incompulsory trades in Canada.
So for yourself, you sign up atSAIT, you go, take your first

(16:46):
block and what are you thinking?
Are you thinking, yeah, this isthe right move, I'm going to
get out there, start working,kicking some butt.
How was the experience for yourunning through your levels at
the college and the work life?

Speaker 2 (16:58):
Well, maybe I'll back up just a touch.

Speaker 1 (17:00):
Matt so.

Speaker 2 (17:01):
I actually participated in the RAP program
as well in high school, so againto touch match, so uh I
actually participated in the rapprogram as well in high school,
so okay, having that highschool with the the
opportunities.
I started my apprenticeship whenI was maybe 16, I can't
remember, uh but you know aminor, young for sure, yeah and
so, uh, I ended up working, uh,over the summer between grade 11
and grade 12 and then actuallyhad enough credits from all the

(17:23):
extra work I'd done in thewelding shop to just come back
for one semester in grade 12 andbasically just do all my
academics and then be out thedoor.
So, uh, I started working as awelding apprentice, uh when I
was, yeah, 16.
And, um, I I worked for a smallorganization that did work on a
lot of heavy equipment.
That's where I started.
I remember the first day, artgear g, small organization that

(17:45):
did work on a lot of heavyequipment.
That's where I started.
I remember the first day.

Speaker 3 (17:48):
Arc Air Gouging in the hot sun, I thought, geez,
this is going to be a longcareer.

Speaker 2 (17:51):
That actually sounds fun to me now.
But in all seriousness, myfirst day on the job site was
interesting.
We shared a yard with a smalldrilling company and they had
some contract welders on doingsome work on one of the drilling
units and I didn't dare talk toanybody, I was just trying to
keep my head down keep the broomgoing and the arc hair gouging
happening, making lots of noise.
But they had about a 60 footportable drill rig up across the
yard.

(18:11):
My first day on the job as awelder apprentice, like you know
day one.
And the welder ended up.
I don't know if he cut or ifthere was some sort of issue
with one of the hydraulic lines,but they had a hydraulic line
go on this drill rig andbasically the load that was on
the hydraulic line sprayed out aton of the hydraulic fluid

(18:32):
while the guy was down in thebottom of the mast doing some
work and he was burned very,very seriously Like oh, h&s shut
us down.
I didn't follow up to find outwhat exactly happened and and if
that individual still even ableto work as a welder, but he was
seriously injured.
Uh, you know, in the trade on myvery first day wow so um, I can

(18:55):
remember my boss coming out andtalking to me and telling me
that you know, they're kind ofshutting the whole yard, the
whole site down for aninvestigation and that somebody
was really badly burned and soso, um, you know, everybody's a
bit of a cowboy when they're 16and they think they're
invincible, and I think that wasa really huge wake up call for
me.
Day one.
And so, um, you know my heart'sout for that individual and

(19:17):
obviously we we never wish thatupon anybody, but for me I
learned a lot from that.
I learned that it was there wasa lot of real hazards out there
and you needed to be carefuland take care of yourself.
And, you know, do those safetyassessments, wear that PPE and
think about the ways you can beinjured.
So the safety element of it forme has been top of mind from

(19:37):
literally day one because ofthat incident.
So, yeah, that was eye-openingfor me and by the time I went to
SAIT after high school, Ialready had maybe a third or
even half of my apprenticeshiphours.

Speaker 1 (19:48):
So I was a pretty, I guess experienced first-year
apprentice yeah.
And it's very interestingbecause as an educator it's hard
to hammer in safety without anaccident.
It's a terrible thing to say.
I remember early on in mycareer I wrote an article that
got published back then in thewelding journal and it was uh,
you know.
The title was all rules arewritten in blood, you know.

(20:10):
And that's a terrible thing tolearn because you wish you could
just explain danger and havepeople be afraid of it.
But until you see it or haveexperience firsthand with it,
that's when it really sinks in,like these trades have gotten so
much safer.
But it's on you Like you haveto be checking those check boxes

(20:32):
or else things go sideways realfast.

Speaker 2 (20:35):
Yeah, absolutely it's .
Yeah, it's critical right.
We want everybody to come homeat the end of the day and we can
try to instill that as much aswe possibly can during, you know
, the education process, but atthe end of the day, everybody
has a part to play in it andeverybody has a responsibility
to support it.
So, yeah, I mean it takes acommunity and, um, unfortunately
accidents do happen, but thebest thing that we can do is

(20:55):
learn from them, right?
so yeah I was fortunate enoughto learn from that one and, yeah
, it shaped who I am as a, as atrades person and really for the
rest of my life, right Likeit's important to recognize that
can happen to anybody.

Speaker 1 (21:07):
So so, so let me get this straight.
You're coming into into safeand you already have done your
hours.
You already are pro safety.
You're already been welding forlike two years.
You're like the keenest, keenerkid in level one ever.
You know, how did theinstructors like you?

(21:28):
How was your journey?
How are the other students?
Cause you'd already been atskills.
You had all this experiencewhere you seen as kind of a
leader within the class, rightoff the top, or were you kind of
seen as the?
You know, this is the teacher'spet.

Speaker 2 (21:41):
Yeah, I don't know.
Uh, that's a question I thinkonly they could answer.
But what I will say is that Itried to.
I asked a lot of questions butI didn't want to be, you know,
that person that's slowing classdown.
I was always eager to learnmore.
I wanted to know outside of themodule and yeah, I always
jokingly say I was the welderwho asked too many questions,
but I tried to be really humble.

(22:02):
I'm definitely not the bestwelder, never was, never will be
.
There's always.
You know, dozens and dozens ofindividuals on any given job
site that have better handskills than you.
But from from the technicalside, I found that quite
intriguing.
So you know again, phenomenalinstructors.
I met some of them at skillsand they all.
I think they had highexpectations, but they they

(22:23):
treated me the same as everybodyelse.
And I really appreciated thatand that's what I would hope and
expect for.
So, yeah, I, yeah, I try to behumble and I and I try to to
learn as much as I can um, so itwas really the metallurgy.
That that I thought was reallyinteresting oh yeah, for sure by
the time I got to third year, Iwas sitting in our trade
science class, right.
So it's a small module oflearning about heat treatment

(22:45):
and you know the thefundamentals of material science
, if you will.
For for a welder's perspectiveand I was like this is so cool,
like this is how the metal'sactually reacting under all
these changing circumstances.
You hear a lot of, I guess,like hearsay or rules of thumb
when you're an apprentice, butto have a meddler just in front
of you actually explaining likeno, that only is applicable here

(23:08):
and this is what's actuallyhappening.
I thought that was really cool,and so one of our current
faculty members, mr Brian Brownhe tapped me on the shoulder and
he's like you ask a lot ofquestions about the trade
science stuff.
You should check out ourwelding engineering technology
program and I'm like the heck isthat?
He said it's called WET.
I said, okay, what does thatmean?

(23:30):
He's like there's more to learnin welding.
We have a weldingengineering-ish program, a
welding engineering technologyprogram.
I'm like, tell me more.
And so I ended up, finishing myapprenticeship, I went to work
for a while, I obtained myinspection certification and
then I decided to come back forthe welding engineering
technology program.
So I came back to to state fora second time and did our

(23:50):
two-year diploma there.
Yeah, yeah, that was uh, Icould fiddle my boots with all
of the material science andwelding codes and standards that
, uh, a real welding geek would,would want.

Speaker 1 (24:01):
And so I was absolutely in my uh, you know,
just just right in my, my, myperfect place did you like you
said you know you got the timein, you went and did some work,
got your inspection.
Do you do you wish you wouldhave stayed maybe on the on the
on the stinger a little longer?
Did you ever have thoughts ofmaybe like cause you got into
academic real quick, like Iremember meeting you and you

(24:23):
were like 27 or 28 and you werealready like climbing, climbing
ranks, right, and uh, and I wasthinking like, and I think
there's lots with young kidsthat are coming up and it's like
you know, take your time andenjoy each step, because
sometimes you want to climb sofast that you forget to, you
know, just sit in one spot andsoak it all in before you go to

(24:44):
the next one.
Do you feel like you had spentenough time at each kind of post
before you moved on to the nextone?

Speaker 2 (24:51):
Well, that's a good question and I think it's a fair
question and I think to answerthat you have to think about
what you're trying to get right.

Speaker 3 (24:57):
And so for me.

Speaker 2 (24:58):
I want to learn and contribute every single day, and
so when you start to see thelearning fizzle out a little bit
and you feel like you're.
You know there's always more tolearn, but you're not getting.
You know handfuls of it all thetime.
For me, um, that that's a goodsign that if something comes up
and it seems to make sense, Iwill pivot.
And so those opportunities didpresent themselves to me, um,

(25:19):
and I also think it's againreally important to be humble.
I'll never forget.
I came back and I worked at thewelding shop.
I did my apprenticeship at uhbetween first and second year of
the welding engineeringtechnology program and they're
like oh, here's the fancyinspector and welding engineer
guy and you know they werereally good, but of course
there's a little bit of uh.
They was razzing, yeah, yeah andmy very first weld.

(25:40):
They're all watching and say,oh well, we'll see what you're
capable of.
Today I went to strike an arcand I didn't have my lead on.
So you know and uh we all had areally thorough laugh about that
, so I you know, I think youhave to be humble, right, um and
so to answer your question,like you know, did I?
Did I stay in the trades longenough?
It's a good question.
I could have gone a completelydifferent path.
I was really close to startingmy heavy duty apprenticeship.

(26:02):
Uh, as well, I shop and seeingsome some heavy duty mechanics
and I thought that was reallyneat.

Speaker 1 (26:08):
That's cool yeah, I wanted to learn more there.

Speaker 2 (26:10):
But at the end of the day, I think that when an
opportunity presents itself,you've got to follow your gut,
you've got to weigh your optionsand if something comes up and
you think it's the right move,you go for it.
So I'm grateful for all the timeI spent my journeymen and all
the other guys in the shop.
I learned so much from them,and my first leaders too right,

(26:33):
my first shop foreman as aleader.
Now I often think of some ofthe things that my shop foreman
said back when I was anapprentice and didn't make any
sense, didn't really meananything and it's funny, some of
those lessons take decades toclick.
But you understand some of thetechniques they were using and
some of the strategies that theywere using to engage the people
and get things done as a teamRight.

Speaker 3 (26:51):
So I've done a lot of reflecting on that as well, so
you know.

Speaker 2 (26:55):
I could have stayed in the trades, I could have done
another one, but thatopportunity to go back to school
came up and, yeah, I went forit, for sure.

Speaker 1 (27:03):
It's funny Cause I think about that with my career
all the time because I did theopposite.
I stayed in the trades a longtime and kind of resisted moving
into the next part of my field,Because I went down the welding
path and then I went down thefabrication path.
So that's a bit of a pivot, butnot much.
And I really resisted.
But I didn't start teachinguntil I was 37.

(27:25):
And it was almost late.
I was like maybe I spent toomuch time on the tools.
But then when I reflect now as aolder person in the leadership
position I have so muchexperience to draw from from
those years in the shops thatare so applicable leadership
positions People were like, howdo you manage so much?
You know paperwork?

(27:45):
How do you manage so manyprojects?
It's like, well, I used tomanage 40 guys on the floor work
.
How do you manage so manyprojects?
It's like, well, I used tomanage 40 guys on the floor.
You know, you learn a lot ofstuff managing materials and
people and times and and allthis stuff, and you learn lean
and kaizen and all that stuff.
All of that stuff slides rightinto the office world.
It's really not much different,right yeah, yeah I.

Speaker 2 (28:06):
I always enjoyed uh kind of lateral thinking aspect
and I think it's really coolwhen you're on your drive home
or your drive to work, or you'resitting there one day and you
know you make this connectionbetween something that seems
completely irrelevant orhappened to you and really a
different life or a differentcareer, and you're like I'm
noticing that pattern ofsomething that I saw over here,
maybe as an issue, or someoneapproached something in a really

(28:29):
different way.
And it maybe didn't make sense,but you mentally made note of it
.
And then here you are, you know, five or 10 years later, and
you're like, oh, that's whatthey were doing.
Yeah, those are really the sameproblem, just different
circumstances.
So I think, being able to tiein those experiences and it's
not necessarily how muchexperience you have, but it's
the diversity of the experiencethat you have what you learned

(28:55):
along the way, right?
I think in any role, right?
Whether you're an apprentice,whether you're a high school
student, whether you're aninstructor, every role has so
many things to learn, right?
And so it's like you need to sitthere and you need to get some
soak time and if you're reallytrying to get the most value out
of it, you're not countinghours, you're not counting days,
you're not counting years ormonths.
You know you can measure thatin what you've learned and who
you've helped, right.
So think about thoseexperiences and what you can

(29:15):
learn from not only the peoplequote unquote above you or in
more senior roles, but yourpeers, right.
Like every other apprentice,every other instructor, every
other manager right, they allhave a huge variety of life
lessons.
Manager, right, they all have ahuge variety of life lessons.
And even if you can get one ortwo gems from them, you know a
month, you know in aninteraction that you have

(29:36):
something you can take away.
I think that that's the reallyvaluable takeaway right.
So for me, it's not about asmuch as the time.
I do think there's an amount ofsoap time that's necessary in
every role, but I think it's allabout how you can support
others and what you can learnfrom them, and that doesn't.
I think it's all about how youcan support others and what you
can learn from them, and thatdoesn't.
It doesn't matter what roleyou're in.
I think that's really key.

Speaker 1 (29:52):
Yeah, and you know it's like the, the, those, those
moments in your career thatgive you the butterflies.
You know that they're not allthe time, but I remember as a
welder there was those timeswhen you get the butterflies,
cause yours is awesome.
And then you, as a fabricator,you've built your first giant
project and that's awesome.
Then you become an instructorand you have that first student
come in.
That is just amazing and you'relike, yeah, like you get right

(30:16):
behind them.
And then, as a manager, youstarted seeing your employees as
the ones that are reallypulling out the stops, do a good
job and you get excited forthem.
You know it's just.
You know how you can supportthe people around you that are
kicking a** too right.

Speaker 2 (30:29):
Yeah, absolutely Right.
You see their success.
And even if you were, you know,quietly supporting that in the
background, it's just a greatfeeling, right.

Speaker 3 (30:37):
And that's yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:42):
I mean, that's the essence of leadership and
teamwork.
Right Is supporting others sothey can do their best work, and
if we're all successful, then,yeah, that's the team.
The sum is greater than theparts, and so, yeah, I see that
at work every day.
I'm super lucky to get to workwith who I do and, yeah, it's
just an amazing experience whenyou see it work the way that you
hope it does, right.

Speaker 1 (30:59):
So, after you got your engineering or your welding
engineer technicians, the WETprogram which is now in many
provinces.
Alberta was one of the first tohave one.
Ontario has a few.
It's just starting to kind ofspread around the country.

Speaker 2 (31:13):
Where did you go work .
What did you do after that?
Yeah, so right out of school, Igot a job downtown Calgary at
an engineering company, and thatwas in July or August of 2014.
And the reason I remember thatMax, you alluded to the bust and
boom in Alberta- and the oilprices tank in September of 2014
.
Alluded to the bust and boom inalberta, and uh, oil prices

(31:34):
tanked in september of 2014.
So, uh, I was, I.
I took on this, this role atthis engineering company in
quality assurance.
Um, I didn't know what meetingminutes were.
Uh, I wasn't that great oncomputer at all, and so they put
me in this back office withthis uh really senior admin
person, and she taught me somuch.
You talk about, like you know,luck of the draw and who you get
to sit beside and share anoffice with, oh my gosh, uh,
that I learned the ropes of kindof like computers, meetings,

(31:58):
corporate atmosphere from her.
I was just like a vacuum forinformation.
So I got a shout out to her forfor all she taught me, um, but
I was in that job again, uh, foronly only a few months.
And and I got a call from oneof the instructors at SAIT.
His name was Cody Blackmore andhe had taught me in the WET
program and he said, hey, I'mleaving, I'm going to industry

(32:20):
and we're going to be putting ajob posting up.
You should really think aboutapplying.
And I was totally taken abackand I didn't consider that at
all.
I was just ready to go to workin the private industry again
and I remember talking to mywife about it and humming and
hawing and said do you see howI'm really young, Like, do I
have enough experience?
And I was like, well, you knowwhat I'll put my name in and if

(32:41):
they think I'm the bestcandidate, and it is what it is.
I know the people there.
I've had really the nextgeneration.
I was like you know what, I'llthrow my name in that and I
ended up being successful and Iwas a faculty member, uh, in the
WET program for, uh, I think,seven semesters, and so I got to
teach a variety of our coursesthere.

(33:01):
Uh, codes and standards andfailure and mitigation are
always my favorite, and uh yeah,I think I've seen one of your
presentations back then on onthat.

Speaker 1 (33:09):
That was usually what you presented on Pardon.
What was that when you wouldpresent that at conferences?
I believe one of yourpresentations that I watched you
on was on mitigation of failedwealth failures.

Speaker 2 (33:20):
Yes, yeah, yeah, and so um.

Speaker 1 (33:23):
Sorry, I have a weird memory like that.

Speaker 2 (33:25):
Yeah, that's probably correct.
I you know that was a whileback now, but uh, yeah, I did
try to get out outside of ourclassrooms and bring industry to
our students and bring what wewere doing to industry.
So, yeah, I spent a lot of timepresenting, attending
conferences and seminars and,yeah, publishing some stuff as
well.
So, yeah, I had a ton of fun.
I got to.
I got to be the biggest weldinggeek in the world and they paid

(33:48):
me for it, so that was that wasunreal.
I remember bringing Yasmeessection nine home to read in the
evenings and my wife's like whyare you reading a?
Four inch thick code book.
I was like, oh, this is awesome.
I want to know this thinginside and out and know how to
navigate it.

Speaker 1 (34:01):
And I just I absolutely loved that time and I
look back really fondly on it.
I got my library of booksbehind me.
I mean people are like, why doyou keep them?
And it's like you have no ideahow often I go back and just
open one and be like, oh yeah,okay, I remember that's pretty
cool yeah exactly.

Speaker 2 (34:14):
So yeah, and then I saw a lot of the people I taught
in those years.
Now they're.
You know, a person like.

Speaker 1 (34:20):
Paul Robanski, you know chapter.

Speaker 2 (34:21):
Chair of the Calgary chapter of the CWBA.

Speaker 1 (34:33):
And, yeah, now you're working with those individuals
in industry and seeing themsucceed.
So it's just, it's just awesometo see that full circle.
I, I really enjoyed it.

Speaker 2 (34:37):
So after your seven semesters, uh, teaching in the
wet program.
Then what happened?
Um, an opportunity came up for,uh, a position called academic
chair, which is like thedepartment head, and um, yeah, I
, I ended up taking on that role, and I did that role from 2018
to about a year and a half ago.

Speaker 1 (34:53):
Yeah, a year and a half ago, and yeah.

Speaker 2 (34:56):
I looked after both.
I supported the faculty andsupported the program in welding
engineering technology, as wellas our non-destructive testing
portfolio, and so that was.
I was familiar with NDT as awelder right.
And some of those inspectionmethods and my training in wet,
but I had never practiced as anNDT technician, and so to take

(35:17):
on that portfolio was again ahuge learning opportunity got to
know the faculty there, learnmore about the training and the
quality systems and theregulators.
And yeah, I had a lot of funwith that team.
That was such a greatopportunity and those folks are
phenomenal.

Speaker 1 (35:32):
Well, this is a good time to take a break because
we're right up to the transitioninto your current career.
But I just wanted to tell aquick story here for the
audience, as I remember, one ofthe first times I met you we
actually got to hang out andtalk and have a good time was
out, uh, in halifax.
We were out there for aconference and there was like,

(35:54):
um, we had to go across theharbor.
There was like an eventhappening we had to like get
across the harbor to go to.
I think the bar was calledlower decks, lower deck yeah, do
you remember that night?
yeah yeah, I was in the basement, yeah, and they had a band and
stuff and I remember I didn'tknow you well, but I had seen
you here and there and I waspresenting.
You were presenting at theconference.
We both had our talks and wewere sitting there having a beer

(36:16):
and you're starting to get lateand you're still pretty young
and I was.
I was like, oh, yeah, you know,nice to meet you.
You're presenting.
Yeah, I teach at state.
I was like, yeah, I teach atsask poly.
You know like blah, blah, blahand uh, and you're I gotta get,
I gotta get back early Cause Igotta start practicing for
tomorrow morning.
And I was like, ah, come on,you could stay.
You're a welder, you, you canstay later.

(36:36):
I made you stay a couple drinksmore but eventually you left.
And the next day I waspresenting before you at like
nine in the morning and you werelike, how did you do that?
How did you stay out so lateand present?
And I was like practice, myfriend, practice, practice,
practice.

Speaker 2 (36:57):
Well, that's a lesson I guess I still need to learn.

Speaker 1 (37:02):
No, I've learned now, after 20 some years of doing
this, there's not a lot ofpeople that can do what I do,
yeah a lot of people that can dowhat I do.

Speaker 2 (37:12):
Yeah Well, max, if I can, if I can say one thing
about that.
Um, you know, like, for example, uh, I came out of the the
apprenticeship as a Dean's awardwinner and people go oh man, it
must've you know, you, you youkilled that.
It must've been really easy.
And I always tell people, Itell the students, you know, you
think that I'm not nervousbefore those exams those tests,
the stakes, those welding tests,anything right, inspection,
certification exams, all thestuff you go through.

(37:33):
I get huge test anxiety alwayshave you know.
I found good ways to workaround it, but for me feeling
well prepared really helps withthat, and so that's probably
what was happening behind thescenes.
Max it was something to help mewith my nerves before getting
up on that stage the next day.

Speaker 1 (37:49):
Well, and you did a great job.
You were very professional.
I remember thinking like youand you were not Dean yet or
academic chair, and I rememberlike within a couple of years
you got that academic chair andyou were you were chair of the
of the CWBA in Calgary too atthe time.
So I was like, okay, I gotta, Igotta keep an eye on this guy.
He's, he's moving places here.

Speaker 2 (38:15):
Yeah, it was uh, yeah , a lot of opportunities.
But I just I don't want peopleto think that people uh don't
get test anxiety or are nervous.

Speaker 1 (38:19):
We're all nervous and you gotta be humble and uh, you
know, practice, practice,practice Right.
Yeah, absolutely.
It was funny, Cause I I takemedication for anxiety.
People were like you're anxious, like man.
I've been anxious since I waslike three years old.
I just express it differently.
I just don't shut up, you know.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:36):
Yeah, everybody is a little bit different, right.

Speaker 1 (38:38):
Yeah, yeah, all right .
So we're going to take a breakright here, with Josh Brewster
coming to us from St he's inCalgary.
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Hello, and we are back here atthe CWB Association podcast.
My name is Max Ceron, your hostfor the day, and I'm here with
Josh Brewster, who's coming tous from Calgary.
It is a beautiful home and acurrent academic no associate
dean for the Aviation andTechnology Center in, let's say

(40:48):
I think I got that right.

Speaker 2 (40:49):
Yeah, you did.

Speaker 1 (40:49):
It's a mouthful Good job it is.
It is center in at state.
I think I got that right.
Yeah, you did.
It's a mouthful good job it is,it is.
But like I mean, so people arelistening to that title and
they're like wait a second.
I thought you said this guy wasa welder, right, and uh and and
like a welder, that the besttype of welder in a suit is the
one with the street cred.
Right, because those are, youhave the easiest way to converse
.
That language barrier is kindof something that is an issue

(41:13):
sometimes between academia andthe blue collar People like
yourselves.
You can speak on both sides ofthat fence very easily, right?

Speaker 2 (41:22):
Yeah, you try to, and I really think that's the job
of an engineering technologist,right.
You have people that are reallyanalytical and really technical
, and then you have those thatare actually, you know, creating
things with their hands, right?
Whether?
they're fixing things, you'rebuilding things, et cetera, and
so to be able to bridge that gapis the engineering technologist
and that was one of the otherthings I really enjoyed about

(41:44):
the welding engineeringtechnology program is I learned
to speak engineer and I alreadyknew how to speak welder and I
was able to bring those thingstogether and make a, you know, a
work environment where we couldall move things forward and and
that was really critical.
So, yeah, it's being able tobridge that gap, I think.

Speaker 1 (42:00):
It's interesting you said that last year at a
conference I had an engineer saythat one of the problems they
thought is with the languagebarrier is that engineers always
felt like they have to dumbtheir talk down to welders, and
I took offense to that.
I took offense to that becauseI thought that statement in

(42:21):
itself really expresses some ofthe bias that exists, because
you and I know that there'swelders out there that maybe
don't even have a grade 10, butthey're doing magic.
They're doing magic Right, anduh and I don't like the term of
dumbing down or or talking up, Ifeel like it's the same
language, just sometimes youjust don't know the vernacular

(42:43):
for the thing you're doing andand also how to express it Right
, like.
What are your thoughts on that,since you're kind of on both
sides of that?

Speaker 2 (42:51):
Yeah, I have a presentation slide when I was
volunteering for theinternational pressure equipment
folks years ago and we talkedabout individual circle of
competency so where are youcompetent and where does your
competency end?
And I think knowing where yourcompetency is and where it ends
is really important andrecognizing that everybody has a
circle of competency andthey're different and they

(43:12):
overlap in some cases andthere's gaps in other cases.
And so I think it's reallycritical for anybody whether
you're a welder or an engineeror a business person um, to
understand and really lookyourself in the mirror and say
you know, where where do I,where do I know that I have some
gaps?

Speaker 3 (43:28):
and who can help?

Speaker 2 (43:29):
me fill those.
So I think being humble andrecognizing where your circle of
competency ends is the firststep for anybody, and not
thinking you know everything, oryou're a mile wide and a mile
deep.
That's how you get yourselfinto trouble, quite frankly,
right, yeah, absolutely, andit'll rub people the wrong way.
The other thing is, I alwaystalked about science, right, and

(43:55):
so, really, when you think ofengineering, you think of
scientists and you think oftrades or technologists or NDT
technicians.
Those are all types of science.
It's applied science, and so Ialways think of it as a spectrum
of applied science, not ahierarchy.
And so on one end, you haveyour PhD researching scientist
that is exploring new things,and on the other side, you have
your PhD researching scientistthat is exploring new things,
and on the other side you havethe masters of application.
Right, those are the trades andtechnicians.

(44:15):
They deal with the railroadproblems and they make things
happen.
They turn a blueprint and rawmaterials into something, and I
think that there's significantvalue in both of those things,
but they're obviously muchdifferent.
And then, of course, you haveengineers and technologists,
kind of along the middle.
Around the middle, yeah, I thinkwhen we can understand where
our perspectives come from,understand our circles of

(44:37):
competency and then overlapthose so we're speaking the same
language, that's really wherewe can make that magic happen.
And of course, you need to wrapall of that in respect right.
You need to respect and bewilling to learn and understand
where people are coming from,right.
They probably know a lot ofthings that you don't, and the
other way around.
And if you can learn from eachother, then you're going to make

(44:59):
the best product possible, bethe most efficient possible and
really get to work together andlearn to enjoy each other's
company too right as a byproduct.
So that's the way I look at it.
I look at it as a spectrum ofapplied science and I have a
huge amount of respect from anapprentice to a PhD scientist.
I think we all have our place.
We wouldn't have the science andthe technology we have.

(45:20):
If we didn't have theresearchers and if we didn't
have the people applying thisand doing a great job with their
hand skills on a day-to-daybasis, working art, we wouldn't
have any products either.
So we're all necessary in thatecosystem and I think it's
really important to recognizethat.

Speaker 1 (45:33):
I love the circle of competency.
You know I've taken somecourses and I've seen like
similar.
You know ways to lay that out,but you laid it out so well
there in terms of you know thatit's a constant internal
dialogue that you have as aprofessional of what did I learn
, how can I use it, how is itapplicable?

(45:56):
What don't I know?
And then again you start againwhat can I learn, how can I use
it, how is it applicable?
And then you just roll throughthat because hey, if you learn
something and don't use it, youdidn't, you didn't really learn
it, you just heard it.
That's not the same thing as aslearning.
And then once you learn it, yougot to apply it or else it
didn't.
Then who cares if you didn't?

(46:16):
If you learned it and youdidn't apply, it also falls
under the who cares banner.
And then if, once you apply it,you're gonna find out that
there was something that's notright that always happens or
some gap, and then you startthat cycle again and you need
all hands on deck, all layers,to work yourself through that,
through that cycle, right yeah,I've seen it in practice, uh, on

(46:39):
the shop floor, uh, I've seenit with interacting between the
trades and engineering folks andI just yeah, I think it's
critical, absolutely, it's soimportant.

Speaker 2 (46:46):
And you know you can take that outside of the trades
as well, and you can think ofsenior leaders in an
organization and youradministrative staff on, you
know, answering phones andsending emails.
Same thing applies there, right?

Speaker 1 (47:02):
So, again, you can take those lessons that you see
in the trades and you can applythem to the business world as
well.
Absolutely, and everyone isjust as important as everyone
else.
In that cycle there's no top orbottom, it's just the job.

Speaker 2 (47:11):
Yeah, absolutely, I mean everybody is an individual,
everybody has hopes and dreamsand everybody can contribute in
their own unique way.
And so the sooner you recognizethat and try to get that kind
of foster, of foster that inpeople, uh you know, the more
successful you'll be in general.
Right, very important.

Speaker 1 (47:26):
So so now, as you know you were, you were working
in the welding department, wetdepartment, and this opportunity
popped up in front of a yearand a half and, honestly, when I
saw this happen, the first ofall you stepped down as chair
cause you were moving on.
You were moving on on, whichmay be sad, because you had done
a great job as as the chair inCalgary, paul's doing a great
job still like in their verystrong chapter.

(47:48):
But then I seen where you weregoing for your role and I was
like where the heck is this guygoing?
Now you know you're you'retalking and I went and saw your
center, I went for the tour, Iwent for the chapter event.
It was amazing.
I had no idea that was inCalgary.
So tell us about the role yougot, what you do and kind of

(48:10):
what they do there.

Speaker 2 (48:11):
Yeah.
So when the associate deanposition came up, it included
both our engineering technologyprograms and aviation.
And so, yeah, I quite franklyhad the same thought as you, max
.
It was like, oh, aviation, it'slike I like to fly places.
Aren't those just rivets,exactly Right, and so, yeah,

(48:33):
let's talk about that aviation alittle bit.
So, first of all, all of theshop floors are painted white
and you could eat off of them.
So, coming from a fabricationshop and welding, it's like this
feels really, really foreign tome.
So you know what is the firstcouple of months or a few days

(48:54):
look like in a role like that,right?
And so, first of all, right, Imentioned being humble and I
mentioned, you know, getting toknow people, right?
So, first and foremost, I mightfeel awkward because I'm not
from an aviation background andmost of those staff out there we
have close to 50 staff at thatlocation they probably don't
know me either and are wonderingwhat I'm all about, and so the

(49:15):
very first thing I did was getto know everybody, spend time on
the hangar floor, as we call it, and get to get to know people,
learn their names, understandwhat they do you know, learn a
little bit about their, theirinterests and their family, and
really get to, you know, be partof that, that community.
And so our, our location.
People typically think ofSAIT's main campus, which is

(49:36):
phenomenal and always underconstruction because we're
always growing and improving,and it's in the center of
Calgary, but we actually have afew what we call satellite
campuses as well in otherlocations.
So we have some locationsdowntown for our advanced
technology.
We have our culinary studentsdowntown every day.
We have a location that doesour crane and iron worker.

(49:57):
Funny story about that.
People used to call SAIT andask them what building they were
putting up.
But it was the iron workersputting their project together
in the lot.
So, you know we needed morespace.
We laid some railroad track downat that location and then the
Aero Campus, or the Art SmithAero Center as it's formally
called is attached right to theairport, so we have what's
called airside access, where wecan actually have guests come in

(50:20):
right from the main airport atthe country.

Speaker 1 (50:24):
I've seen that.
I've seen that that would be sotempting, Like all you got to
do is open a gate and you can,like, hit a main runway.
I was like, oh man, I'd be sotempted to be, like, come out of
here.

Speaker 2 (50:34):
Yeah, yeah, we had the Canadian.
The Royal Canadian Air Force istrying to recruit our students
quite often and so twice sinceI've been in this role now
they've come to recruit studentsand I'm not an expert in
student recruiting, but fighterjets seem to help, uh.
So they, they roll up withhelicopters and an f-18 and, uh,

(50:54):
blow all of our hair straightback and, um, yeah, the students
really enjoy that, so reallyeye-opening for them for some of
the opportunities.
So a lot of people think thatwe train pilots, but we do not.
We train kind of four otherareas.
So we train aircraftmaintenance engineers, which is
like your aircraft mechanic.
Avionics, which is likeairplane electronics, so think

(51:16):
of a cockpit and all the buttonsand screens and sensors in
there.
And then we have what's calledour aircraft structures, and so
that's the body or the airframeof the aircraft, the fuselage,
the wings, all those structuralcomponents you know, you see, a
hundred thousand rivets out yourwindow when you're sitting on
an airplane, you know who ismanufacturing and repairing

(51:36):
those, and then we've kind ofled the way, at least in Western
Canada for sure, in the uh, thedrone space.

Speaker 3 (51:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (51:44):
And so we have a couple of really interesting
programs out there.
So, yeah, I've been, uh,getting to know the staff out
there.
It's a phenomenal culture, veryexciting, very busy and, um,
yeah, getting getting into allthese new spaces and so, um,
it's been a great learningopportunity.
I'm super grateful for all thestaff out there.
They do an awesome job and itis so busy.
We have essentially doubled theprogramming in the last couple

(52:05):
of years and we're coming upagainst, you know, limitations
in some of our parking andthings like that so it's nice to
see, and we've just got aphenomenal group of people out
there.

Speaker 1 (52:15):
So where are these students going?
Because, like we've, we watchthe news and we see, like
Boeing's pulled out of Canada,you know, like you see, a lot of
the other airline manufacturershave pulled out of Canada or
reduced their size and you'resaying that your students are
doubling.
So there must be otherindustries that they service, or
outside of the big, the bigthree or whatever, of

(52:37):
aeronautics.
So, like, where do they go?
What kind of jobs are theypicking up?

Speaker 2 (52:41):
Yeah, so for sure.
So I think people relate it towhat they see, just like you and
I do, right so I made earlierabout being on an airplane going
somewhere.
So we have, for example,westjet and Air Canada.
We can literally see theirhangars and their aircraft and
so they are big, big employers.
Of course I mentioned the RoyalCanadian Air Force so that that

(53:03):
that training can move you intogetting into the military as
well.
Obviously, their stuff is allpainted gray and you know you
mount ordinance on it, which ispretty awesome, so that's a
great career path.
And then there's a lot of smalloutfits as well, and I mean
let's talk helicopters, right.
We're close to the mountains inCalgary.
You think fires, you thinkrescue, you know oil and gas

(53:23):
access, all those types ofthings.
Luxury trips A ton of of smallcompanies as well Charter jets
right Um.
All of that is local, sothere's there's a ton of work in
that area.

Speaker 1 (53:34):
Yeah, like I know, in Saskatchewan bush planes are
very common.
Like many, many farmers,especially when you go up north,
there's only remote access many, many helicopters, many, many
small planes and I mean smallbut not that small, like you
know 15, 20 passenger planes andthey're moving up and down and
flipping around all the time andI guess you don't really stop
to think how often those need tobe maintenanced, how often they

(53:57):
need to have repair and whodoes that right?

Speaker 2 (53:59):
Yeah, absolutely Right.
They need to kind of repair.
And who does that right?
Yeah, absolutely right.
Like I always thought ofaircraft structures and it's
like you know, people have hardlandings and they can damage
aircraft on landings, and it'slike, okay, well, who fixes that
right?
You don't just throw theairplane away.
Most of the time you havetrained experts, follow a
process and repair them right.
So, yeah, that happens allbehind the scenes and I don't

(54:21):
think it's something we oftenthink about, but it's yeah, it's
extremely busy and veryinteresting.

Speaker 1 (54:25):
So in, in, in your year and a half there, you said
you've seen a lot of growth.
What's driving the growth hereIs it are you guys just
recruiting so much better, or doyou see industry kind of
pushing people into like saying,hey, there's a lot of job
openings here.

Speaker 2 (54:43):
Yeah, all the above.
So both on the demand and thesupply side, it's extremely busy
.
We have a ton of interest fromthe public.
People really see these careersas great opportunities and so
we have a ton of interest.
We will put on an info sessionand it'll be overflowing.
On the demand side, fromindustry, uh, there was a lot of
pent up travel demand from thepandemic right, people didn't

(55:04):
take vacations, uh, you know, inthe early 2020s, and we've seen
that bounce back.
And then, generally in aviation, all of the forecasts that I
look at, uh, both here inAlberta, so it's top of mind for
for, uh, the province andCalgary economic development,
it's aviation is on their list.
Um but globally, aviation ispicking up and I think really
what's driving that at a globallevel is, you know, you think of

(55:30):
Southeast Asia, you think ofcountries that wouldn't have had
people that were flying veryoften, and they're starting to
get that larger middle class andthose individuals with the
funds to actually start totravel and pay for that airfare.
And so we have, you know,hundreds of millions, if not a
billion perhaps, people gettingthemselves to a point in these,
these, these various countrieswhere they're going to start
flying, and so we're seeingmassive growth areas, both, uh,

(55:53):
africa, southeast Asia, etcetera, and so that just puts uh
constraints on on all theaircraft manufacturers and the
maintenance programs across theworld.
So, yeah, a lot of thingsdriving it, but very, very, very
exciting.

Speaker 1 (56:07):
Now, what about all the trends for green energy?
Where does aviation sit on thegreen spectrum?
Because that's beenfundamentally one of the things.
You know, we can track TaylorSwift's footprint from her jet.
All the vehicles are gettingmore, you know, green friendly
Motorcycles are getting greenfriendly Scooters, you know

(56:27):
segways.
We've got all these forms oftransportation.
What about planes?
What's happening there in thatspace to say, hey, we're trying
to?

Speaker 2 (56:36):
Yeah, so I'll start by saying that I'm not an
aeronautical engineer, but thetrends that I have noticed are a
couple of things, and so we canactually try that back a little
bit to the welding and thematerial side.
So when you look at a lot ofnew aircraft, they are not made
of aluminum, they're made ofcomposite materials, right, and
so lighter means more fuelefficient period.

(56:59):
And so you're seeing a lot ofthe more modern aircraft made by
advanced materials.
So the fuselage itself, againadvanced materials and so
they've been able to cut thefuel efficiency quite a bit, uh,
by using advanced materials andlightening up the aircraft,
making them more efficient, andthere's a lot of engine
technology as well yeah I don'tthink we'll see electric or

(57:21):
anything like that on anaircraft again too heavy.

Speaker 1 (57:23):
The batteries are just too heavy yeah.

Speaker 2 (57:26):
Again, I'm not an expert, but that's what I see.
But what we're seeing is, justlike the internal combustion
engine on your car, we're seeinga lot of advances in efforts to
make things more fuel efficient.
So, again, some of the fanblades and things like that are
being made of more advancedmaterials and there's so much

(57:46):
engineering and design that goesinto them it absolutely will
make your head spin.
I've I had the opportunity touh tour some uh, I guess, jet
engine or gas turbine factoriesand it's, it's just phenomenal.
You know a totally differentworld than what I was used to on
the welding side, but whatthey're doing is they're making
the engines more efficient.
So you look at some of thesemore modern aircraft uh, the
leap 1b, 1a, 1b engines andthey're doing is they're making
the engines more efficient.
So you look at some of thesemore modern aircraft, the Leap
1A, 1b engines and they'readvertising things like 20, or I

(58:07):
believe even 30% more fuelefficient than the previous
generation.
So you know, is their fuelconsumed Absolutely?
But are they becomingsignificantly more efficient?
Yeah, absolutely.
And again, changingrequirements for aircraft
maintenance engineers, avionics,you know.
Think of all the sensors onyour modern vehicle, same thing
on the aircraft.
So the technology is changingtoo, and for the better it's.

(58:29):
It's quite interesting.

Speaker 1 (58:31):
Well, I know that when I was at the, the aero
center there doing the tour, Igot to start a helicopter engine
, I got to no it was a it was anaero, the engine that they have
there.
It wasn't a helicopter, itmight have been.

Speaker 2 (58:44):
Yeah, we have like a dyno bay right.
Yeah, yeah, where you put avehicle engine and you fire it
up and run it through its paces.
The students build an engine,disassemble it and then they run
it through its paces.
So, yeah, we have a little testcell there behind bulletproof
glass, so I got to start thatmotor.

Speaker 1 (58:58):
It was super fun.
I you know the procedures thatare in there and I remember them
discussing about how manyredundant systems planes have to
have Because you can't have astall in midair.
It's like you can't blow it.
You can blow a tire on a carand you have a spare tire in the
back.
That's okay, things are goingto happen, but on a plane you

(59:18):
can't blow a wing and have awing in the back to change it
out while you're in midair.
There are so many interestingredundant systems for safety and
I was like you know that'samazing that you have to think
nine steps ahead on any valveLike oh, this valve will do X.
Well, what if valve can't do X?
Then what does X?
Oh, this other valve, what ifthat valve can't do X?

(59:40):
Well then we got this othervalve.
It that valve can't do x?

Speaker 2 (59:42):
well then we got this other valve, it's like okay,
wow, yeah, one of the coolthings was it's like okay,
before we go to full power, wetest our first set of spark
plugs, right and then we testthe other set just to make sure
they're both working right.
And coming from the automotiveside, you're like you have two
sets right and, yeah, there's aredundancy for everything, right
?

Speaker 1 (59:59):
so yes, they do have spark plugs yes, they do yes so
now you know, in your role as aleader coming from industry from
the ground up, you know whenyou're looking to lead now, your
, your, your department, yourteam, you know what are some of
the, the visions or the guidingprinciples that you're looking

(01:00:21):
to put into them or instill intoyour staff and to your
department to say, you know,let's, let's really keep the
focus on these, say two to threethings to make sure that we're,
you know, satisfying industry,satisfying the students and uh,
and keeping up with the Joneses,cause at the end of the day,
colleges have to keep up withthe Joneses.

Speaker 2 (01:00:38):
So yeah, absolutely.
And you know, academia soundsquite boring at the surface, but
there's a lot happening behindthe scenes and really that's my
role is to support others andmake sure they have the
resources they need so we cantake that student experience and
scale it up right.
I value the connection that weare between individuals and

(01:00:59):
their hopes and dreams andindustry and their needs, right.
So you know, I talked about myfirst day at SAIT and I remember
the green floors and the smelland just really I talk about
that because it's those sensorypieces that stick with you but
really it was just like, oh mygosh, this is where all the
experts live and they know allthe things I need to know to be
successful in my career, right,and so, for me personally, I

(01:01:21):
always lean back on that whenI'm sitting there looking at a
spreadsheet or making some sortof decision.
And at the end of the day, right, we want to ensure our programs
are relevant, they need to beindustry driven and I want to
bring that experience to as manystudents as possible.
So that's kind of how I framemy role, and it's a little bit
more review removed from theclassroom.

(01:01:42):
So when you're an instructor,max, you've been one you see,
that light bulb turn on everyday, right, I always talk about
that.
I, as an instructor, said youhave like one of those oh aha
moments, you know, maybe likeonce an hour and they go.
Yeah, I'm like cool.
We delivered 120,000 contacthours last year, so that means
we had 120,000 aha moments.

(01:02:04):
You know, that's a good feeling,and you know, it's a silly
metric that I say jokingly, butI really mean it, and so it's
bringing that experience to thestudents at scale.
And so for me, it's often, youknow, what do people want and
what do they need, and we'realways trying to balance that.
We want student experience.
It's all about student first,but then we're also hearing
things from industry, and sowe're trying to bridge that gap

(01:02:26):
and do it in a way that it'ssustainable and we can grow it
in the long term and bring it tomore people.
So, yeah, that's my role, andso really it's supporting others
who support the classroom andtrying to bring that student
experience at a scale of, yeah,hundreds thousands, tens of
thousands and how's the gig sofar?

Speaker 1 (01:02:42):
how do you like it?

Speaker 2 (01:02:43):
you're in a half in uh, learning is taking place,
you know um I uh, it's a lotyeah, I mean.
So, like I like between youknow, let's go back to first
year of welding apprenticeshipand then today, right, uh, my
philosophy hasn't changed.
I think that you need to workhard, I think you need to look

(01:03:03):
for opportunities and I thinkyou need to be really grateful
and try to learn from the peoplearound you, right?
So I always there is the sayingthat there's no opportunity
without responsibility.
So you know, in these roles youhave more responsibility and
you need to recognize that.
But at the end of the day, Itry to remain personable, I try
to remain friendly, I try toremain grounded and I try to,

(01:03:24):
you know, help people as best Ican and simultaneously learn
from all the experts around me,right.

Speaker 3 (01:03:29):
You have to be humble .

Speaker 2 (01:03:30):
Like.
I'm not an aircraft maintenanceengineer not even close but I
work with 40.
So what can I learn from them?

Speaker 3 (01:03:37):
every day right.

Speaker 1 (01:03:38):
It's pretty cool.
Well, that just ties up intothe perfect segue for how I
wanted to round out thisinterview, because we're we,
it's we're doing awesome, butour time's coming to a close.
We always have so much funtalking together.
Josh um is is about your risk,your, I guess, ability or desire
that you've always had, thatI've seen in you to work with

(01:04:00):
associations.
You work with multipleassociations.
You volunteer with multiplegroups.
I've seen you be a part of manycommittees.
I see your name go by Eventoday at my desk.
I'll see some committee go byand be like well, there's Josh's
name, he's a part of that thing.
And you were, like I said, achair for the CWB chapter in
Calgary.
Chair for the CWB chapter inCalgary.

(01:04:24):
How important is thatnot-for-profit, volunteer side
aspect of our industry.
You know how important has thatbeen in your life and the
changes or things that it'sbrought to you.

Speaker 2 (01:04:35):
Yeah, it's super critical.
I volunteered for a lot ofdifferent organizations in a lot
of capacities over the last 10years.
Sometimes it's just coachinghigh school students back at the
front of the composite andsometimes it's leading
committees, and at the end ofthe day, the common thread is
giving back and providingopportunities right.
So any of those industry groups, including the Canadian Welding

(01:04:57):
Bureau Association or any ofthese other areas, I see it as
an opportunity to improve and toeither improve or fix things in
industry right.
And so I think a lot of timesyou find people that you know
they're familiar with some sortof issue or long-standing
problem and really wish that wecould fix that, and I often see

(01:05:17):
my participation in all those asan opportunity to help people,
whether we're bringing weldingto junior highs that don't have
welding programs whether we'reshowing welders what their
career can look like as awelding inspector, and that it's
not out of range.
It's, in fact, right there andsuper easy to get into.
Or, you know, is it fixing astandard that you know, perhaps

(01:05:39):
has limited people from gettinginto a particular field, right?
So sometimes it's more at thatnational level, but it's fixing
some of what I would say arethese root causes and some of
the systems that are actuallyacting as bottlenecks, right,
and so we want to upholdstandards, but we also want to
make things efficient, and so,being on those committees, you
get to participate in that andit's very rewarding.
And, again, it's removed fromthe day to day perhaps, but you

(01:06:03):
know, sometimes it takes fiveyears, but you go.
Yeah, a change finally made itout and people are lining up to
do this new thing that didn'texist in 2015.
And so yeah it takes you longerto see the results, but it's
great to work with a lot ofpeople who are passionate about
improving, educating, exposingpeople to these, these areas.
So, yeah, I can't say enough,go find a position, whether

(01:06:25):
you're handing out name tags orbooking events.
Go volunteer and help yourlocal community.
It's really rewarding and youcan bring these opportunities
that you've maybe been privy toto others, and that's super
rewarding and ultimately movesthe industry and the trade
forward.

Speaker 1 (01:06:43):
So yeah, can't say nothing good things about
volunteerism.
And the networking that youcreate.
You know you talked about rightfrom a high school kid.
You know the instructors andthe mentors, even the friends
that you made that are peersthat end up being mentors in
their own way and supporting you.
Those networks that you createthroughout this industry are

(01:07:04):
incredible.
We say it all the time theworld is huge, but the welding
world is small.
Somehow we all know each other,we all connect, we all network.
How important have thosenetworks been in your career and
your advancement in your career?

Speaker 2 (01:07:20):
You know, I think it's one of those things that's
hard to measure but veryimportant, right.
Um yeah, they're, they're,they're super critical.
I have interviewed and beeninterviewed by so many people
and you never know what side ofthe table you're going to sit on
.
So you know, uh, always berespectful always be, humble and
and and make those connectionsright.
Everybody has a story.

(01:07:40):
Everybody wants to, you know,tell you about, you know why
they're there and what intereststhem.
And, yeah, building thoseconnections.
You might not see that personfor five or six years, but if
you take the time to make aconnection with them, they're
going to remember you and you'regoing to remember them five,
six years down the road and younever know what that situation
is going to look like.
But making those connections isso important, right?
You never know what positionyou're going to be in.

(01:08:01):
You could be looking for work,you could be on a committee or
you could be in some completelyseemingly different area, but
somehow run into them and it'sjust always great to have those
connections.
So, yeah, networking iscritical and when people see you
out there working hard andmaking events happen, reaching
out to high schools, taking yourevenings to go do stuff,
perhaps, or a weekend at awelding rodeo, People notice

(01:08:23):
that and it goes a long longways.
You just might not see theresults that day.

Speaker 1 (01:08:27):
Yeah, now, what's coming up, what's in the future
for Josh?
Like what do you?
I feel like you don't have abig plan and I don't know if
you've ever really had a plan.
You just kind of work hard andtake the opportunities, what,
like?
I mean, there's's some someonecould say what, what's next?
Like you're kind of at the topof the food chain for for where
you are.
But I don't look at the worldthat way.
I don't really believe in a topof the food chain thing.

(01:08:49):
You know there's always otherthings, even if they're lateral.
What are some of the thingsyou'd like or still on the
bucket list for josh?

Speaker 2 (01:08:55):
yeah, I think that, uh, I think we're working on
some really innovative programs.
Um, I can't talk about a lot ofthem because we're just into
really preliminary stages, but Ithink that where I work is
phenomenal and we are bringingthat student experience at scale
and you know we're going tocontinue to grow what we already
do, but we're looking at someprogramming in some really
exciting new areas that I thinkindustry needs and we want to be

(01:09:19):
in and we want to bring thatexperience to prospective
students.
So for me, I think that that'sreally exciting and, yeah, I'm
working on my master's degreeright now MBA and so I really
appreciate that because I knowwhat the students feel like.
You know, you're like I don'twant to read this today, but you
got to, so I'm continuing toeducate myself in that matter.

(01:09:41):
But really, from a workperspective, we've got some
phenomenal new programmingcoming online the next couple of
years in the drone space, inthe material space, and I'm
really excited about gettingthose across the finish line
with the support of all thesubject matter experts we have,
and you know, hoping to see whatthat next chapter looks like as
far as programming and studentexperience.
So, yeah, it's very exciting.

Speaker 1 (01:10:04):
Awesome.
How can people that arelistening to the podcast find
out more about the programs thatare running at SAIT and or
within even your department?

Speaker 2 (01:10:12):
Yeah, so the first place I would lead them to is
our website.
So, saitca, we have well over100 programs.
The programs that I've beentalking about are in our schools
of manufacturing and automation, as well as our school of
transportation, and so if you goto our website and you look up
those particular areas, you'llsee our programs listed there.

(01:10:32):
And, yeah, if folks want toreach out, I'm on LinkedIn so
I'm happy to carry onconversations or get them
connected with the right personfrom there.

Speaker 1 (01:10:41):
Awesome man.
Well, this is pretty much theend of the interview.
This is fantastic.
I love it.
Always great to see you.
When are we going to hang outsome more now that you're not in
the welder circle?
I don't see you as much anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:10:51):
Yeah, I know Well, we'll sign up for some CWBA
events and.
I'm sure we'll see each otherthere.
We can catch up.
I you know I love all thatyou're doing here.
I've been following the podcastfor quite some time now.
Um, love listening to all thedifferent perspectives.
I think you're doing an awesomejob.
Uh, I think that the, thecanadian welding bureau
association is very impressiveand, uh, you guys are bringing a

(01:11:14):
lot of opportunities to peopleat scale across the country and
across the world.
You mentioned the us.
I know we've set up, I believe,in south america as well.
So, from that perspective, hatsoff to all the volunteers and
employees, yourself included,and I really appreciate all the
work that you do every day.
I think we're we're opening upa lot of opportunities and
that's pretty cool feeling.

Speaker 1 (01:11:33):
Well, it's about giving back a hundred percent.
That's my story too.
Uh, this fit.
This trade has given me nothingexcept a great life, and I can
only expect it to give othersthe same right.
So why not?

Speaker 2 (01:11:45):
Exactly Well.
Thank you, sir, Appreciate thetime and thanks for having me on
Awesome.

Speaker 1 (01:11:50):
Thanks a lot, and for all the people that have been
following the podcast.
Thank you so much.
We are growing, we areexpanding, we are moving into
the US.
So the new we just dropped thenew American Welding Program,
which is a special program thatis sense ready, cwi ready.
It is everything ready for theAmericans in their specific
industry.
We are also now looking atSpanish language programming for

(01:12:12):
South America and bringing onnew sponsors in the South
American regions to connectschools, colleges and industry
down there, because the Americasare a very closed loop as far
as industry, so we got tomaintain those connections and
grow together because reallyanyone that and industry down
there, because the Americas area very closed loop as far as
industry, so we got to maintainthat those connections and grow
together because really anyonethat grows in this industry
supports us all.
So you know, keep watching anddownloading the podcast and I'll

(01:12:32):
catch you at the next episode.
Thank you, we hope you enjoythe show.

Speaker 3 (01:12:48):
Do you own a company in the welding industry or want
to share a targeted message withour listeners?
Then this 45 second audio adspace could be yours.
We have the coolest listenersfrom all over the world, with
over 60,000 downloads, and 88%are from North America.
This podcast serves to educateand connect the welding

(01:13:09):
community together and isavailable on all major platforms
, including the CWB GroupNetwork.
If you are interested, reachout to info at cwbassociationorg
.
Look at that.
I just gave you all of thatinformation in only 45 seconds.
You've been listening to theCWB Association Welding Podcast

(01:13:30):
and if you enjoyed what youheard today or want to send us
some questions to answer, youcan text the show using the link
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