August 6, 2025 • 29 mins
The CWB Association hosted this year's annual Welding Industry Day Conference in Red Deer, Alberta. Join us as we bring you special episodes recorded on-site to keep our members on top of what’s new and exciting in the steel and welding industry. A special thank you to Cooperheat Equipment for sponsoring this episode! Cooperheat has a dedicated team of professionals and prides itself as the go-to experts for solving thermal technology challenges globally since 1957.
Today's special guest, Bruce Stewart, Competency Manager at Tech Heat, shares his remarkable 30-year journey through the specialized field of heat treatment. From humble beginnings answering a newspaper ad in 1991 to helping develop a nationally recognized trade program, Bruce offers a fascinating glimpse into an industry that has transformed dramatically.
When Bruce first entered the field, heat treatment technicians were considered "below the bottom of the scale" in the trade hierarchy. The entire Western Canadian heat treating industry consisted of just 20-30 technicians using primitive methods like tiger torches and temperature crayons that might be "within 100 degrees" of the target. Fast forward to today, where sophisticated electrical resistance and induction heating systems allow for precision control within specific parameters, and the industry has grown to over 300 specialists. For welders and fabricators looking to understand this critical aspect of quality control, this episode provides invaluable insights into the science and craft behind proper heat treatment.
Check out Cooperheat Equipment:
Website: https://cooperheatequipment.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/cooperheat-equipment-ltd/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/cooperheatequipment/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cooperheatequipment/
There is no better time to be a member! The CWB Association membership is new, improved and focused on you. We offer a FREE membership with a full suite of
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
All right, I can check.
Check, I'm good.
So I'm Max Duran.
Max Duran, cwb AssociationWelding Podcast, pod pod podcast
.
Today we have a really coolguest welding podcast.
The show is about to begin.
Hello and welcome to anotheredition of the CWB Association
(00:27):
podcast.
My name is Max Teron and I'mhere in sunny yet smoky Red Deer
, alberta, for our wonderfulWelding Industry Day Conference
2025.
Today has been a wonderful dayof sessions and conversations
and context and networking andas a part of that, we have our
wonderful sponsors stepping into do some of the podcasts.
(00:49):
Today's podcast and thispodcast is sponsored by Cooper
Heat Equipment and with me todayI have Bruce Stewart, who is
the competency manager andtechnical heat treatment of
technical heat treatment forTech Heat.
Yeah, how are you doing?
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Bruce.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Great, thank you, awesome, awesome.
So let's start with just today.
How's it going so far today?
Speaker 2 (01:07):
It's been really good .
I put a presentation on earlier, I watched one earlier tonight
and it went really good Verygood engagement, a lot of good
people and everybody's doing itfor the same thing.
So I think it's going reallygood.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Good.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
What was your presentation on program
development?
So the heat treatment industrythe tech heat's part of and
Cooper is part of we have afield heat treatment technicians
that have to trade acrossCanada, and it was about the
program development that Ihelped out put together with
with with our organization.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
So let's, let's go back to to, I guess, to where
this story is going to start,and that's with you.
So you know how did you findyourself in this line of work.
You know at what point did thebug get you?
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Well, let's go back a long way.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Yeah, yeah, that's all right, these gray hair
coming with honesty.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
So actually that's a funny story because it was back
in 1991 when I got into the heattreating industry itself here
in Alberta and I answered anadvertisement in a local
newspaper I think it was theEdmonton Journal for a heat
treating contractor had no ideawhat it was about.
I think I was on unemploymentat the time and they mandated
you to apply at so many jobs.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
So many jobs a week, yeah, I remember.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Yeah, so that's what happened.
And when I went there and theyexplained it to me I'd had
actually worked in the oil fielda little bit and I had seen it.
It's a very specializedindustry.
So he was quite impressed themanager at the time there that
I'd even knew what it was.
Yeah, and it was like you'regood to go, You're starting on
Sunday.
And that's what happened and Igot into the field, into the oil
(02:30):
field business that way.
So I've been in this since 1991in the heat turning industry.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
So in 1991, like I got into the business in 93.
So in 1991, um inductionheating wasn't a big thing.
It was around, yeah, but it wasreal expensive and mainly for
smaller components.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Yeah, the induction side with electrical resistance
they were doing.
That's what we got into.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Yeah, so I was kind of wondering what was the
business like back then.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Yeah, well, it was a lot smaller than it is now.
There was in 1991, when I lookback at it, there was probably
only 15 to 20 people that wouldbe considered.
That would be a full-time jobWow.
In this province, you know theywould probably have 30 or 40
people during shutdown times andstuff, but it's it's.
It's grown dramatically now.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
So we have over 300 members that do this type of
heat treating work.
Well, it's not just shutdowntime.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Now it's actually part of welding process preheats
, post heats, annealments.
You know it's kind of a, it'snot a thing.
That was just for specificthings.
Like I remember when I firstgot into welding, the only time
I'd have to worry aboutresistance heating or any of the
heating processes was for ARplate or QT and we're putting
thick slabs onto onto otherthick pieces.
(03:38):
And I mean now I think it'skind of become a part of a lot
more processes.
Oh yeah, definitely.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
It definitely has.
They even do it on pipelines,which was predominantly just
done by.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Tiger Torches back in the old cowboy way.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
So they're doing that .
A lot of code changes to theindustry and stuff like that.
So yeah, you're a hundredpercent right, they do
preheating that you talked aboutwhen I worked in 1991, they
didn't pay us to come preheat orany other way.
You know they're paying someoneto do that specialized and now
they know like probably half thework we do out there is
pre-heating on components andstuff like that.
So it just shows how it'sevolved 100%.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Did you have a trades background before you got?
Speaker 2 (04:12):
into the heat game.
No, in 1991, I just I graduatedhigh school in 88.
So I went to the oil field andI started a pipe fitter
apprentice, I started a masonapprentice, I started a bunch, a
few.
Before I figured out what I wasgetting into.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
And then the heat treating industry.
That got me involved in 91.
It's a very it's a very small,unique industry, yeah, and it
kind of traps you and it'sreally hard to get out once you
get in.
I've tried to get out of thisindustry three times but I just
keep moving into different roles.
I've told them you, I've triedquitting welding twice
(04:46):
officially, yeah, and here I am.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Yeah, and that's what it is.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
It's these metal trays that we work in and the
oil field we work in alberta.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
It kind of gets in your soul, right?
Speaker 2 (04:50):
so it's uh I know I've had a great career in it
and it turned out really wellfor me, so so you're talking
about coming in 91.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
You know not that many technicians out there
specifically, and you know I, II cut my teeth in saskatchewan.
There's a lot, obviously,procedures and qualifications
that require preheats and postheats and inter past
temperatures, but it waspredominantly, like I would say,
99 torches or belchers or, likeyou know, different types of
(05:17):
propane or natural gas heatingoptions, right, right, um, which
is slow and messy and expensiveand dangerous, yes, right.
So in these last 30 years, youknow what kind of uh
advancements have you seen?
You know industry take on.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Well, with the preheating stuff that we're
talking about a lot of code.
What they've realized is if youactually do it properly, the,
the actual end result is a is abetter product that lasts a lot
longer.
So do it properly, the actualend result is a better product
that lasts a lot longer.
So the and the development ofthe trade program that I was
talking about today, where theheat treatment technicians
actually recognize as a trade inAlberta and across Canada and
New Brunswick and inSaskatchewan again this year.
So you're from Saskatchewan.
(05:55):
So that was what some of thebiggest changes to it and
actually the them understandingand researching of how important
it is to do, and then I meanthat's how a lot of and to do it
right and to do it properly,not just throw torches on it and
keep it spinning and ah, goodluck, yeah, well, and I imagine
people welded a little bitdifferently in 1990.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Yeah, which is what you started to do today too.
Yeah, absolutely yeah, andthat's.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
That's how the heat treating the things that we were
doing in 1991, when I starteduh, are unacceptable today.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
You know we just didn't.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
They did.
Things were completely wrong.
Nobody cared about anything.
So there's a lot more, uh,moral aspects to it.
Today, people were doing it forfor good reasons and stuff like
that, and the craft itself is alot better recognized.
We were treated like dirt.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Yeah, kind of bottom of the scale, bottom of the
scale, yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Yeah, you know, below the bottom of the scale because
we were in a trade Right andthere wasn't any union
organizations that were helpingus out or anything like that.
So, and I wouldn't like tothrow shade on any craft or
trade and stuff like that, butwe were at the bottom of the
barrel.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Yeah, and that must have been frustrating, because
you're supporting such animportant part of the industry
that obviously needed you.
Yeah, it that obviously neededyou.
Yeah, it obviously needed this.
How did how did you startgaining or how did your field
start gaining that recognitionin industry like that?
We got to pick up the phone andcall these people.
They're the specialists we needthem.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Right, and I think a lot of that came.
Just as you know, Alberta keptexpanding and booming and
growing, and growing, and it gotbigger and bigger and new
materials started coming intoplace and they they recognize
the need for heat.
Treating was more importantwith these new materials.
You know the mild steel that alot of people were talking about
, even at the last presentationat lunchtime, the carbon steels
and stuff like that they getaway with.
Porch preheating they get awaywith some of these other.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
There's not enough.
There's not enough ingredientsin there to mess with really.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Right.
But as the power industry grewand we get with these creep
strength, enhanced ferric steelsand stainlesses and higher
chromes, that's where thepreheating all our things
actually came to light.
So it was just like everybodyjust figured it out on their own
and we were so happy that theyactually respected what we had
to do.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
I remember when I, when I was first started welding
heavy industry it was, you know, there were stainlesses,
duplexes hadn't really beeninvented yet and there was
always a tendency to be carefulwith temperatures and stainless,
because it's obvious, you knowlike you sugar it out and it's
done.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Right.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
There's that, there's that scenario.
But it wasn't until I startedworking with nickels and in
canals that we started reallyhaving to dial heats in, because
it doesn't take much to go fromthe right temperature to too
hot and ruining, you know, halfa million dollars a year.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
You know what I mean, right, right.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
And you can't trust a tiger torch to distribute the
heat evenly enough that all of asudden you're trying to get to
400 degrees over here and overthere you're 800 degrees, and
that's just not going to fly.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
Right.
So these specific materials asthey evolve, I'd imagine your
industry has to evolve with it.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Oh, absolutely, and that's what's changed our
industry, like you said.
That's where we've grown fromthat little handful of people
that took care of it to wherewe're at today is because of
those material changes andprocess changes and the Inconel
and stuff that you're talkingabout.
That's very specialized, likethere's only a handful of ULers
that can even weld that stuff.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Yeah, yeah, Actually, when you get good it's pretty
fun, but it's hard to learn,Right right.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
And we do the first time I worked with any Inconel
talking about that we do somehigh temperature annealing on
them which is quenching leaning.
So we'll take it up to 2,100degrees Fahrenheit, then hot
strip it.
But that's for welding, it'sfor weldability issues.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
For weldability.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
yeah, yeah completely different than what we normally
do our heat treating with.
So there processes like thatthat we take care of in this
industry too that I never saw inthe 90s when I was doing it.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Now, what about the scope of the size of things?
I know that that was alwaysseen as something limited and I
had bosses tell me because youknow, we started seeing some of
the electrical resistance andinduction systems come out, but
they always seem like forsmaller pieces.
You know, when we had big,greater blades that are 10 feet
long, you're have you're stillpulling out the torches, but
(09:45):
I've seen the technology.
Now that they, you can kind ofdo anything though.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Yeah, oh yeah, they can do what.
What exactly the advanced?
We can do anything.
They do bucket wheels, they doall kinds of stuff with breeding
, with electrical resistanceInduction's a lot different, you
know, with the bolt removalsand stud removals and stuff like
that Very, very specialized.
And the combustion side ofthings is where we turn things
into a big oven, so now we cancook a whole vessel on site
instead of having to put itsomewhere else.
(10:09):
Right, well, that's always beenaround, but it's more
commonplace today.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
So like I was just going to ask, like we used to
have to send stuff inSaskatchewan to Alberta to get
heat treated because you knowthere were some smaller places
around tough to get stuffpre-treated or heat treated
properly and and sends like andand you would, and there wasn't
great paper trail for it, therewasn't a lot of documentation.
(10:34):
You know you kind of justtrusted that things would go and
then come back with stuff doneto them.
You know what I mean.
Yeah, that's changed, obviouslynow.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Yeah, I think that's across the country.
You can get a lot of heattreating done.
The signatory contractors orthe heat treating contractors we
deal with, they covereverything from across Canada.
In Saskatchewan when I startedthe industry in 1991, the
company I worked for at thattime we took care of everything
from Northern BC all the way toManitoba.
Oh, really, and there was onlytwo or three heat treating
companies that did that in thispart in the Western part of
(11:02):
Canada.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
I remember that yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
And then, like I said , that was the 20 or 30 of us
that took care of all that work,but because it had evolved.
So much.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
I mean.
That's going to be a goodfeeling, though, Like you know,
like you know, they need you.
Yeah, You're not getting firedanytime soon.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
No, no, that's for sure.
In the early nineties it wassporadic because there wasners
that you know are working lotsof hours all the time making
lots of money and I think that'swhere a lot of the evolution of
the industry came from, too,cause people were saying look, I
can actually make a career ofthis.
You know, it was tough in theearly nineties when I started,
(11:37):
probably in between some kind ofeighties thing, you know,
between the nineties orsomething, cause we weren't very
busy, you know, or five monthsout of the year, you always had
to have something else on the,on the goal.
Where now young guys are cominginto this and it's a career,
you know, they start off andthey're they're raising families
with this and this is their,this is their only job.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
So is it a like?
I mean you work as a trainernow specifically yeah, I got a
note here you help develop anddeliver hands-on training across
Canada.
So so that means to me thatthere's curriculum, there's like
how long is the course, what'sthe training process look like
for what you do?
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Well, the Quality Control Council, who I was with
for the past 16 years before Istarted with TechEat just a
little over a month ago.
Here we did develop thetraining program that's
recognized through AlbertaApprenticeship and Industry
Training.
So it's an apprenticeship.
So it's modeled after anapprenticeship.
So it's a four-year program.
So every year in a minimum1,800 hours in a calendar year,
they come back and they take atraining course just like an
apprenticeship, except we'renon-compulsory, so we don't have
(12:33):
six weeks of training.
Our courses are one to two weeksat a time.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
And it's making sure they get the hours and stuff
like that, which is just aphenomenal story because, like I
said, when we did the ninetiesit was hey, wild West Five, yeah
five minute training.
This is how we do it, and thisis the way it gets done so.
The the the evolution of thetraining has been has been
massive in the last 20 years,and the trade itself, like we're
a recognized trade in Alberta,new Brunswick, and then we're
(12:57):
going to be a recognizedoccupation in Saskatchewan.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
And that's a lot of work, like I've education
systems to get new classes orcourses running and the amount
of hoops you got to jump throughis substantial.
Oh, that's great.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
I didn't know you did anything like that Cause.
That's what my presentationtoday was on a little bit, and
it is crazy, it is crazy and theamount of people that actually
had to come, you know,collaborate to do this.
That's right, competingcontractors and everything.
It was crazy.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
You know, you think you got a good idea and
something that's good for theindustry, and then you have a
couple of people agree with youand next thing you know it's a
two-year project.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Yeah, that's how it was and when they were putting
that together in Alberta, I wasactually on the operations side
of the management from the heattraining contractor side, so I
didn't get involved with theroot causes, but as soon as it
happened that I've been involvedwith it ever since.
So the work that they did thefounder did before I got
involved is truly remarkable.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
So where could someone go get this training?
How does someone sign up?
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Well, most of the time, the hardest thing about it
is like any other thing youhave to get a job with the
company that's doing it and then, after you get some experience
and stuff like that, the minimumrequirements are a thousand
hours six months type thing, andthen you just Go apply for the
apprenticeship, takeapprenticeship training.
Yeah so, and the QualityControl Council of Canada is the
only recognized trainingprovider across Canada.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Okay, and so you know .
You said it's a week or two oftraining here and there, you
know, between accumulating yourhours.
Where would someone go to dothat?
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Like these certified training centers, we have a
certified training center inOntario Brownfield, ontario and
as well as in St John, newBrunswick.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Okay, so we cover all the country, yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Yeah, we cover all the country with those three
branches.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
And are you finding you're getting enough students
coming in to meet the demand ofwhat's required of the industry?
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Well, we are, because it's a very small industry so
we don't get huge numbers youknow on a good year we can get
through 50.
I think the best year we everhad we had like 78 students come
through, which is very small inany trade industry, but not for
a new one, like I mean.
But going forward I imaginethat there's going to be some
growth yeah there definitelywill be growth that with these
hydrogen plants and the and the,the you know the the not I
(15:07):
shouldn't say mars and thenuclears.
And exactly, yeah, they knowthey all need heat treating
absolutely but it's not going togo away anytime soon.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Well, the, as we see here, the invention of new
materials, new alloys, newfiller, consumables yeah is, I
would say, almost monthly.
There's something new gettinginvented in the world and the
science that backs up these newprocesses is getting much more
(15:34):
defined.
It's not just like, oh, we needless manganese.
It's like, no, no, we need lessmanganese and better
weldability.
And it's good at minus 40 andand and and right.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
When they design these procedures.
Now, when I look at these newconsumables coming up, they're
very specific for heat, veryspecific for all the data that's
going in, the variables,essential variables coming in
and out.
I only see more opportunity forheat treatment.
You know industry to growsupporting the welding industry.
Yeah, a hundred percent.
I said those creep strength,those P15Es, they're really
supporting the welding industry.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Yeah, a hundred percent.
I said those creep strengthhands, those P15Es, they're
really changing the heat,treating industry, because
they're realizing that ifthey're, if they're done
improperly, that their servicelife is really reduced.
Yeah so they're really pushing.
New codes have come out.
There's a mandatory appendix insection one, now mandatory
appendix eight, which is thevery first mandatory appendix
regarding local post-bulb heattreating, which our technicians
(16:28):
do with electrical resistanceever, and that only came out
three years ago.
So that is massive that it'swritten into code now as a
mandatory appendix.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
And probably very necessary.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Yeah, and I said 1991 , there was nothing.
Absolutely Put a third of acouple here.
Go Give me a chart.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
And here's your crayon.
That's within 100 degrees.
Yeah, good luck.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
And here's your crayon, that's within a hundred
degrees.
Yeah, good luck.
Yeah, the welder's in charge ofthe preheat.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
Yeah, absolutely yeah , yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Well, we would go up there and the welder would be at
lunchtime.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Torches are just running all afternoon, that's
right.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Not dogging welding yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
No, but it's really that's very specific degrees too
hot.
I'm going to have to wait anhour, let it cool down a bit and
then, okay, now I can weld, andit's like I mean, that's a very
imprecise way of doing thingsand a waste of time.
Yeah, right, and a big waste oftime.
Yeah, now for the people thatare listening and kind of don't
understand what we're talkingabout, maybe, and how they work,
(17:23):
like, how are they differentfrom each other and what are
they used for?
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Well, for the heat treating thing.
Most of the time that we talkabout within the trade is for
electrical resistance of localpost-weld heat treating of
piping and tubing.
So a lot of components in theheat treating world are done in
ovens.
Right, they're big components,they have big ovens and you get
a really good heat treatmentwhen you do things in an oven.
Yeah, now we're trying to mimicthat.
When we do it local, yeah, theproblem with that is it's very
(17:47):
hard to do because we're notallowed to cook the whole thing.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
And the environments around you.
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
We're out in the wild , you know, with the winds, and
all different temperature.
We're trying to do it minus 40instead of a controlled
environment.
Rain or whatever.
Yeah, exactly so that theelectrical resistance process
has really changed, just withthe qualifications and the code
stuff and everything like that.
But the other heat treatingprocess is the.
They're always been there.
There's not much change in them, except we're putting a lot
(18:13):
more effort into making surewe're doing them properly.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Okay, yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Right, that's the biggest thing.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
And then for, like, electrical resistance.
Yeah, you know how does thatwork.
How does that heat up a part?
How localized can it be?
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Well, electrical resistance theoretically is,
we're running current through aresistor.
The resistor is heating up thewires and getting hot.
That wire is covered by ceramicbeads which can contain the
heat without disintegrating youknow, melting or anything like
that and then that heat istransferred to the pipe via
conduction.
So we can be very precisebecause we can make these pad
heaters.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
Kind of like the hot wires in a toaster?
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Yep, exactly, except we have them insulated and we're
controlling them and we'reputting them on manually and
stuff like that, awesome.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
So then you can, you know, relatively follow the weld
, you know, and just heat upwhat you need without heating up
what you don't need.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
That's right, yeah, don't need, that's right, yeah,
well, actually the the heatersthemselves are called flexible
ceramic pad heaters and theycome in all kinds of different
sizes and shapes.
And then the technician is theone who designs that process and
how they're going to be putonto, you know, into specific
areas and control heat sinks orheat losses or heat blocks and
all kinds of other Thermal.
Thermal dynamics is the bigword they talk about it and
that's what we have to same aswelders.
(19:22):
You know the welders got to putthe rod around there, but
everybody that looks at a welder.
It's very easy, it's not.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
No, there's a lot, and we use the terms thermal
resistivity, thermalconductivity.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
At the end of the day .
Speaker 1 (19:32):
They're all part of the dynamics family, so yeah,
exactly, so we're workingtogether, yeah.
Well, I mean post-seating waslife right, that's.
It was in every code.
We had to do it to everyanything over half inch.
We were, you know, sitting ontorches half the day and and
then they started bringing innewer equipment and electrical
resistance and it was like, oh,this is way easy, yeah and a lot
(19:56):
more precise and then theystarted bringing in technicians,
which was the next step thatwe're doing it, and we got to
just, you know, sit and watch.
And then he'd be like, yep, okay, go.
And it was like that's reallynice right right to have that
kind of uh the team?
Now it's not just you as awelder faking your way through a
preheat with very rudimentarytools.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Things are getting dialed in, right, yeah, and
you're getting a record ofsomething happening.
Well, right, because he didproduce charts and things like
that.
I didn't know how they got awaywith the tiger torch.
Now, every day, you know,everybody wants a record of
everything.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Oh man, you don't.
It was pretty rough.
Well, the funny story.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
We talk about the welding because we were working
at Sinkford in the mines orSuncor in the mines.
We were doing a bucket wheelthere, Mm-hmm, and we welding
crew, the apprentice had thewrong temp sticks, oh, and the
welder kept saying why is thisso hot?
Why is this so hot?
So he had a 600 degreeFahrenheit temp stick.
(20:52):
Right, but the other one he hadwas a 400 degree Celsius temp
stick, so your 800 degreesFahrenheit.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Yeah, yeah, they were just doing it a lot hotter.
Things happen Well.
You get it hot and then youwait an hour.
What do they say?
You lose about 70 degrees anhour in the open air, or
something like that.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Someone told me Could be.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
It was like some formula for if you screw up.
You got to wait.
These probably made upsomewhere in the field, but you
pick up a lot of those littleweird numbers out there.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Yeah, yeah, exactly Now what about induction heating
?
What?
Induction heating is acompletely different element.
I'm not a subject matter expertin induction heating.
I did took a course during theChristmas break here last year
and stuff like that.
So that's inducing a currentthrough magnetism and all kinds
of different things.
They produce eddy currents.
It's very, very scientific, butthat's used for a lot of
(21:36):
different.
It heats up stuff very, veryquickly.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
We can take something from ambient temperature up to
a thousand degrees, 2000 degreeswithin minutes.
Yeah Right, so they do that forexpansion, turbine expansion,
expansion on nuts or bolts whenthey're trying to take them off.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Yeah, shaft unit with shafts shaft, like when you
have to do sleeves.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Yeah, so the heating process is completely different
scientific world and it's justused for different things.
And we don't use induction verymuch for our local post-weld
heat treating, for post-weldheat treating after two pieces
of pipe have been weldedtogether.
Yeah, it can be, but that's notwhat it's set up.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
And it would be really expensive.
The tooling's still not ascommon, right.
That's right, yeah, and theyare very, you're right, they are
very, very expensive yeah.
Yeah, now in Alberta with yourcompany.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
You know, like you just started, you familiar with
the contractor side for 30 years.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
So what drew you in to come under the family here?
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Well, I worked with the owner there years ago.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Scott, yeah, scott.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
When I was with a different heat training
contractor.
He actually worked for me for aperiod of time and then he'd
moved over and done some otherthings and he was very
instrumental in the tradeprogram development and stuff
like that as well.
So when I was with the QCC andI was ready to transition and I
had great, great career withquality control council of
Canada as well and it was justtime for me to do something.
You know, getting a littlecloser to retirement, one last
(22:51):
kick to change something up likethat.
And me and him were talkingabout a few things and his
vision for the competencymanager role that I have within
TechEat, carrying on thetraining and everything still
with the heat treatment thing,kept everything intact with me
morally what I've been doingsince 1991.
And it's a great opportunity forme to finish my career out with
a company.
That's very, very forwardthinking and they're.
(23:12):
They like their technicians andwe want to.
You know, we are very, veryproud of the technicians and we
want to move that forward, whichnot all contractors do, and
that's what made my decision tocome over and work with Tech
Heat.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
And since you've gotten back in the industry now,
back in front of people withthe equipment, you know, kind of
back and developing andsupporting these training
programs, you know what is itthat you're going to bring to
the flavor now, Cause I'm sureyou have a vision of what you
want to see happen within tech,heat and the training.
What is it that you want tostart seeing within the company
or or bring to it?
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Well, I just want to continue making sure that the
craft is recognized.
That's really what my end goalis.
The competency part of it is toensure that our people are
being doing things the best theycan.
The tech heat way is the oneway.
So that's, that's putting itout for the tech heat way.
But most off is just to ensurethat we, you know the continued
improvement and understanding ofour craft and our technicians
(24:03):
and the importance of it.
Like with the changes, allthese new changes are coming up.
We, we get into this when we'rein this very specialized
industry.
You get into this thing.
Do people really care?
because we're so small, we don'tget recognized for it so we
really want to push that, thatthe work that we're doing is
important and and they do needus yeah, even though they don't
care when things fail.
Exactly that's when you reallycare and that's the thing with
(24:25):
our job.
It's kind of thankless becausewhat we do, the results don't.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
If you don't hear from them, it's good.
Exactly yeah, exactly Rightyeah that's a big thing is.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
I want to carry on and make sure that people are
aware of how much I appreciatethe trade and I think the trade
should be recognized and itshould be more appreciated than
it is.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
So is it something like you said it was
apprenticeship?
Is it a nationally recognizedRed Seal?
No, it's not.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
That's the that's the next mission that we're kind of
trying to look forward to yeah,and that's through the CCDA.
Well that I haven't figuredthat one quite out yet.
So it took a long time.
In Alberta, new Brunswick andnow Saskatchewan I've made
application to other provinces,but because we're so small they
really don't.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Well, and that's probably your three major mining
provinces right there too.
Yeah, probably some alignmentto that.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Yeah, and that's a good thing, and then as long as
they work together.
But now you're trying to getgovernment agencies working
together.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
And sometimes that's a little tricky.
Well, we're basically hired byCSA, right?
So trying to navigate thatsphere of supporting industry
but still keeping the governmenthappy is a tricky spot, yeah
yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
And that's what we.
I tried to navigate that withthe Quality Control Council,
which is tough because I haveother people to answer to and
some other people have differentdirectives.
But we're still going to try tofoster that within TechEat and
within the Cooper Eatorganization and stuff like that
.
So we're not going to give upon that either.
We're going to try to continuethis, and that's our end goal is
to get the trade red sealedacross Canada.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Well, that sounds super interesting.
Like I mean any.
Anytime we can develop anothertrade avenue, it means that
there's a need for it.
Industry needs it.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
And it and that's.
Uh, those are all positivethings, right, yeah, and cw is a
great organization that we cando.
Uh, you know, come to theseconferences, stuff like that,
because a lot of the cw peopleare involved with us.
You know, they work with us inthe field and then they, they
can promote us as well well,let's finish on on that note,
specifically about thisconference.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
You know what is it that?
Tech heat, cooper heat.
You know, as an umbrellacompany, hope to get out of
attending and sponsoring thesetype of events.
Well, I, I can't speak for forcooper.
You know, as an umbrellacompany, hope to get out of
attending and sponsoring thesetype of events.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Well, I can't speak for Cooper Heat, you know in
general they've only been here amonth and a bit, but I
understand they want to have theexposure.
And you know, when I talked toScott here today he said when he
comes to these things he's noteven selling his product.
He wants to do what's good forthe industry and support the
industry.
And then when you do that, goodthings happen in return.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
Yeah, so that's what we're doing.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
We're here to support the industry.
I mean, CWB is a greatorganization and that's what
we're here for.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
Have you had a pretty good response at your booth?
Today?
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Well, we don't have a booth here or anything like
that, oh, no, okay, I waswondering if you guys were set
up out there.
No, we don't have.
I'm not in the sales part, butwe're pushing it a little bit
yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
And which of the sessions have you attended?
Speaker 2 (27:07):
The other one I attended just before mine was a
heat treating of the 3D metalforming stuff there because
they're getting into heattreating issues With the WAM.
Yeah, yeah because of differentmicrostructures and stuff like
that, which I found veryinteresting, but it's very, very
new too.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Yeah, because WAM goes in at a much lower
temperature, so post heat is isvery essential, right yeah, and
I I wasn't very familiar withWHAM at all when I saw the
acronym, I had to look it up.
I'm like well, that's whatthey're called.
Everything's an acronymnowadays.
I can't keep up with it.
(27:43):
Yeah, but that's the fromCooper Heat and Tech Heat.
You guys being here presentingand being a part of the family,
you know we're always looking tosee how we can support.
So just let us know what we cando to help support your
initiatives, because I know as apersonally, as a welder, how
important this part of theindustry is right now and will
be.
You know, 30 years ago, like wesaid, it was a, it was a fly on
(28:05):
the wall.
Yeah, and now it's getting to be, it's, it's a part of codes,
there's an apprenticeship cycle.
The future is bright and strongfor for your industry.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
Oh, that's awesome.
I'm really happy that's myfirst podcast ever did.
I'm glad it was conducted by awelder.
We actually had really goodthings to talk about Absolutely,
absolutely, like.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
I mean, I've done the things that you were talking
about, yeah, so this is none.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Of this is scripted or anything you know, so that's
awesome.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
Any messages for the, for the audience, about tech
heat how to get ahold of youguys and find out about you.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
Any of the social medias.
We're online all the time we'rewe're a high tech company.
We're here to support the needsand we're here to support the
technicians, so we're definitelyyour go-to heat treating
contractor.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
I can guarantee you that Awesome, well, fantastic,
and for all the people listening, thanks so much to our sponsors
that are here at WeldingIndustry Day supporting us, and
again for all the people thathave attended and our great
staff and everybody here.
I hope you have a wonderful dayand I hope you have a wonderful
night.
We still got another day and ahalf here to go and it's going
to be fantastic.
Make sure you check out all theepisodes that we're recording
(29:11):
this week and learn and supportand, of course, we couldn't do
without our sponsors.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
So thank you very much, thank you very much.
We hope you enjoy the show.
All right, I can check.
Check, I'm good.
So I'm Max Duran.
Max Duran, cwb AssociationWelding Podcast, pod pod podcast
.
Today we have a really coolguest welding podcast.
The show is about to begin.
Hello and welcome to anotheredition of the CWB Association
(00:27):
podcast.
My name is Max Teron and I'mhere in sunny yet smoky Red Deer
, alberta, for our wonderfulWelding Industry Day Conference
2025.
Today has been a wonderful dayof sessions and conversations
and context and networking andas a part of that, we have our
wonderful sponsors stepping into do some of the podcasts.
(00:49):
Today's podcast and thispodcast is sponsored by Cooper
Heat Equipment and with me todayI have Bruce Stewart, who is
the competency manager andtechnical heat treatment of
technical heat treatment forTech Heat.
Yeah, how are you doing?
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Bruce.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Great, thank you, awesome, awesome.
So let's start with just today.
How's it going so far today?
Speaker 2 (01:07):
It's been really good .
I put a presentation on earlier, I watched one earlier tonight
and it went really good Verygood engagement, a lot of good
people and everybody's doing itfor the same thing.
So I think it's going reallygood.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Good.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
What was your presentation on program
development?
So the heat treatment industrythe tech heat's part of and
Cooper is part of we have afield heat treatment technicians
that have to trade acrossCanada, and it was about the
program development that Ihelped out put together with
with with our organization.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
So let's, let's go back to to, I guess, to where
this story is going to start,and that's with you.
So you know how did you findyourself in this line of work.
You know at what point did thebug get you?
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Well, let's go back a long way.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Yeah, yeah, that's all right, these gray hair
coming with honesty.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
So actually that's a funny story because it was back
in 1991 when I got into the heattreating industry itself here
in Alberta and I answered anadvertisement in a local
newspaper I think it was theEdmonton Journal for a heat
treating contractor had no ideawhat it was about.
I think I was on unemploymentat the time and they mandated
you to apply at so many jobs.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
So many jobs a week, yeah, I remember.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Yeah, so that's what happened.
And when I went there and theyexplained it to me I'd had
actually worked in the oil fielda little bit and I had seen it.
It's a very specializedindustry.
So he was quite impressed themanager at the time there that
I'd even knew what it was.
Yeah, and it was like you'regood to go, You're starting on
Sunday.
And that's what happened and Igot into the field, into the oil
(02:30):
field business that way.
So I've been in this since 1991in the heat turning industry.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
So in 1991, like I got into the business in 93.
So in 1991, um inductionheating wasn't a big thing.
It was around, yeah, but it wasreal expensive and mainly for
smaller components.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Yeah, the induction side with electrical resistance
they were doing.
That's what we got into.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Yeah, so I was kind of wondering what was the
business like back then.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Yeah, well, it was a lot smaller than it is now.
There was in 1991, when I lookback at it, there was probably
only 15 to 20 people that wouldbe considered.
That would be a full-time jobWow.
In this province, you know theywould probably have 30 or 40
people during shutdown times andstuff, but it's it's.
It's grown dramatically now.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
So we have over 300 members that do this type of
heat treating work.
Well, it's not just shutdowntime.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Now it's actually part of welding process preheats
, post heats, annealments.
You know it's kind of a, it'snot a thing.
That was just for specificthings.
Like I remember when I firstgot into welding, the only time
I'd have to worry aboutresistance heating or any of the
heating processes was for ARplate or QT and we're putting
thick slabs onto onto otherthick pieces.
(03:38):
And I mean now I think it'skind of become a part of a lot
more processes.
Oh yeah, definitely.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
It definitely has.
They even do it on pipelines,which was predominantly just
done by.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Tiger Torches back in the old cowboy way.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
So they're doing that .
A lot of code changes to theindustry and stuff like that.
So yeah, you're a hundredpercent right, they do
preheating that you talked aboutwhen I worked in 1991, they
didn't pay us to come preheat orany other way.
You know they're paying someoneto do that specialized and now
they know like probably half thework we do out there is
pre-heating on components andstuff like that.
So it just shows how it'sevolved 100%.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Did you have a trades background before you got?
Speaker 2 (04:12):
into the heat game.
No, in 1991, I just I graduatedhigh school in 88.
So I went to the oil field andI started a pipe fitter
apprentice, I started a masonapprentice, I started a bunch, a
few.
Before I figured out what I wasgetting into.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
And then the heat treating industry.
That got me involved in 91.
It's a very it's a very small,unique industry, yeah, and it
kind of traps you and it'sreally hard to get out once you
get in.
I've tried to get out of thisindustry three times but I just
keep moving into different roles.
I've told them you, I've triedquitting welding twice
(04:46):
officially, yeah, and here I am.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Yeah, and that's what it is.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
It's these metal trays that we work in and the
oil field we work in alberta.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
It kind of gets in your soul, right?
Speaker 2 (04:50):
so it's uh I know I've had a great career in it
and it turned out really wellfor me, so so you're talking
about coming in 91.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
You know not that many technicians out there
specifically, and you know I, II cut my teeth in saskatchewan.
There's a lot, obviously,procedures and qualifications
that require preheats and postheats and inter past
temperatures, but it waspredominantly, like I would say,
99 torches or belchers or, likeyou know, different types of
(05:17):
propane or natural gas heatingoptions, right, right, um, which
is slow and messy and expensiveand dangerous, yes, right.
So in these last 30 years, youknow what kind of uh
advancements have you seen?
You know industry take on.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Well, with the preheating stuff that we're
talking about a lot of code.
What they've realized is if youactually do it properly, the,
the actual end result is a is abetter product that lasts a lot
longer.
So do it properly, the actualend result is a better product
that lasts a lot longer.
So the and the development ofthe trade program that I was
talking about today, where theheat treatment technicians
actually recognize as a trade inAlberta and across Canada and
New Brunswick and inSaskatchewan again this year.
So you're from Saskatchewan.
(05:55):
So that was what some of thebiggest changes to it and
actually the them understandingand researching of how important
it is to do, and then I meanthat's how a lot of and to do it
right and to do it properly,not just throw torches on it and
keep it spinning and ah, goodluck, yeah, well, and I imagine
people welded a little bitdifferently in 1990.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Yeah, which is what you started to do today too.
Yeah, absolutely yeah, andthat's.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
That's how the heat treating the things that we were
doing in 1991, when I starteduh, are unacceptable today.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
You know we just didn't.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
They did.
Things were completely wrong.
Nobody cared about anything.
So there's a lot more, uh,moral aspects to it.
Today, people were doing it forfor good reasons and stuff like
that, and the craft itself is alot better recognized.
We were treated like dirt.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Yeah, kind of bottom of the scale, bottom of the
scale, yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Yeah, you know, below the bottom of the scale because
we were in a trade Right andthere wasn't any union
organizations that were helpingus out or anything like that.
So, and I wouldn't like tothrow shade on any craft or
trade and stuff like that, butwe were at the bottom of the
barrel.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Yeah, and that must have been frustrating, because
you're supporting such animportant part of the industry
that obviously needed you.
Yeah, it that obviously neededyou.
Yeah, it obviously needed this.
How did how did you startgaining or how did your field
start gaining that recognitionin industry like that?
We got to pick up the phone andcall these people.
They're the specialists we needthem.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Right, and I think a lot of that came.
Just as you know, Alberta keptexpanding and booming and
growing, and growing, and it gotbigger and bigger and new
materials started coming intoplace and they they recognize
the need for heat.
Treating was more importantwith these new materials.
You know the mild steel that alot of people were talking about
, even at the last presentationat lunchtime, the carbon steels
and stuff like that they getaway with.
Porch preheating they get awaywith some of these other.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
There's not enough.
There's not enough ingredientsin there to mess with really.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Right.
But as the power industry grewand we get with these creep
strength, enhanced ferric steelsand stainlesses and higher
chromes, that's where thepreheating all our things
actually came to light.
So it was just like everybodyjust figured it out on their own
and we were so happy that theyactually respected what we had
to do.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
I remember when I, when I was first started welding
heavy industry it was, you know, there were stainlesses,
duplexes hadn't really beeninvented yet and there was
always a tendency to be carefulwith temperatures and stainless,
because it's obvious, you knowlike you sugar it out and it's
done.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Right.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
There's that, there's that scenario.
But it wasn't until I startedworking with nickels and in
canals that we started reallyhaving to dial heats in, because
it doesn't take much to go fromthe right temperature to too
hot and ruining, you know, halfa million dollars a year.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
You know what I mean, right, right.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
And you can't trust a tiger torch to distribute the
heat evenly enough that all of asudden you're trying to get to
400 degrees over here and overthere you're 800 degrees, and
that's just not going to fly.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
Right.
So these specific materials asthey evolve, I'd imagine your
industry has to evolve with it.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Oh, absolutely, and that's what's changed our
industry, like you said.
That's where we've grown fromthat little handful of people
that took care of it to wherewe're at today is because of
those material changes andprocess changes and the Inconel
and stuff that you're talkingabout.
That's very specialized, likethere's only a handful of ULers
that can even weld that stuff.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Yeah, yeah, Actually, when you get good it's pretty
fun, but it's hard to learn,Right right.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
And we do the first time I worked with any Inconel
talking about that we do somehigh temperature annealing on
them which is quenching leaning.
So we'll take it up to 2,100degrees Fahrenheit, then hot
strip it.
But that's for welding, it'sfor weldability issues.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
For weldability.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
yeah, yeah completely different than what we normally
do our heat treating with.
So there processes like thatthat we take care of in this
industry too that I never saw inthe 90s when I was doing it.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Now, what about the scope of the size of things?
I know that that was alwaysseen as something limited and I
had bosses tell me because youknow, we started seeing some of
the electrical resistance andinduction systems come out, but
they always seem like forsmaller pieces.
You know, when we had big,greater blades that are 10 feet
long, you're have you're stillpulling out the torches, but
(09:45):
I've seen the technology.
Now that they, you can kind ofdo anything though.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Yeah, oh yeah, they can do what.
What exactly the advanced?
We can do anything.
They do bucket wheels, they doall kinds of stuff with breeding
, with electrical resistanceInduction's a lot different, you
know, with the bolt removalsand stud removals and stuff like
that Very, very specialized.
And the combustion side ofthings is where we turn things
into a big oven, so now we cancook a whole vessel on site
instead of having to put itsomewhere else.
(10:09):
Right, well, that's always beenaround, but it's more
commonplace today.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
So like I was just going to ask, like we used to
have to send stuff inSaskatchewan to Alberta to get
heat treated because you knowthere were some smaller places
around tough to get stuffpre-treated or heat treated
properly and and sends like andand you would, and there wasn't
great paper trail for it, therewasn't a lot of documentation.
(10:34):
You know you kind of justtrusted that things would go and
then come back with stuff doneto them.
You know what I mean.
Yeah, that's changed, obviouslynow.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Yeah, I think that's across the country.
You can get a lot of heattreating done.
The signatory contractors orthe heat treating contractors we
deal with, they covereverything from across Canada.
In Saskatchewan when I startedthe industry in 1991, the
company I worked for at thattime we took care of everything
from Northern BC all the way toManitoba.
Oh, really, and there was onlytwo or three heat treating
companies that did that in thispart in the Western part of
(11:02):
Canada.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
I remember that yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
And then, like I said , that was the 20 or 30 of us
that took care of all that work,but because it had evolved.
So much.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
I mean.
That's going to be a goodfeeling, though, Like you know,
like you know, they need you.
Yeah, You're not getting firedanytime soon.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
No, no, that's for sure.
In the early nineties it wassporadic because there wasners
that you know are working lotsof hours all the time making
lots of money and I think that'swhere a lot of the evolution of
the industry came from, too,cause people were saying look, I
can actually make a career ofthis.
You know, it was tough in theearly nineties when I started,
(11:37):
probably in between some kind ofeighties thing, you know,
between the nineties orsomething, cause we weren't very
busy, you know, or five monthsout of the year, you always had
to have something else on the,on the goal.
Where now young guys are cominginto this and it's a career,
you know, they start off andthey're they're raising families
with this and this is their,this is their only job.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
So is it a like?
I mean you work as a trainernow specifically yeah, I got a
note here you help develop anddeliver hands-on training across
Canada.
So so that means to me thatthere's curriculum, there's like
how long is the course, what'sthe training process look like
for what you do?
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Well, the Quality Control Council, who I was with
for the past 16 years before Istarted with TechEat just a
little over a month ago.
Here we did develop thetraining program that's
recognized through AlbertaApprenticeship and Industry
Training.
So it's an apprenticeship.
So it's modeled after anapprenticeship.
So it's a four-year program.
So every year in a minimum1,800 hours in a calendar year,
they come back and they take atraining course just like an
apprenticeship, except we'renon-compulsory, so we don't have
(12:33):
six weeks of training.
Our courses are one to two weeksat a time.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
And it's making sure they get the hours and stuff
like that, which is just aphenomenal story because, like I
said, when we did the ninetiesit was hey, wild West Five, yeah
five minute training.
This is how we do it, and thisis the way it gets done so.
The the the evolution of thetraining has been has been
massive in the last 20 years,and the trade itself, like we're
a recognized trade in Alberta,new Brunswick, and then we're
(12:57):
going to be a recognizedoccupation in Saskatchewan.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
And that's a lot of work, like I've education
systems to get new classes orcourses running and the amount
of hoops you got to jump throughis substantial.
Oh, that's great.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
I didn't know you did anything like that Cause.
That's what my presentationtoday was on a little bit, and
it is crazy, it is crazy and theamount of people that actually
had to come, you know,collaborate to do this.
That's right, competingcontractors and everything.
It was crazy.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
You know, you think you got a good idea and
something that's good for theindustry, and then you have a
couple of people agree with youand next thing you know it's a
two-year project.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Yeah, that's how it was and when they were putting
that together in Alberta, I wasactually on the operations side
of the management from the heattraining contractor side, so I
didn't get involved with theroot causes, but as soon as it
happened that I've been involvedwith it ever since.
So the work that they did thefounder did before I got
involved is truly remarkable.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
So where could someone go get this training?
How does someone sign up?
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Well, most of the time, the hardest thing about it
is like any other thing youhave to get a job with the
company that's doing it and then, after you get some experience
and stuff like that, the minimumrequirements are a thousand
hours six months type thing, andthen you just Go apply for the
apprenticeship, takeapprenticeship training.
Yeah so, and the QualityControl Council of Canada is the
only recognized trainingprovider across Canada.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Okay, and so you know .
You said it's a week or two oftraining here and there, you
know, between accumulating yourhours.
Where would someone go to dothat?
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Like these certified training centers, we have a
certified training center inOntario Brownfield, ontario and
as well as in St John, newBrunswick.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Okay, so we cover all the country, yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Yeah, we cover all the country with those three
branches.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
And are you finding you're getting enough students
coming in to meet the demand ofwhat's required of the industry?
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Well, we are, because it's a very small industry so
we don't get huge numbers youknow on a good year we can get
through 50.
I think the best year we everhad we had like 78 students come
through, which is very small inany trade industry, but not for
a new one, like I mean.
But going forward I imaginethat there's going to be some
growth yeah there definitelywill be growth that with these
hydrogen plants and the and the,the you know the the not I
(15:07):
shouldn't say mars and thenuclears.
And exactly, yeah, they knowthey all need heat treating
absolutely but it's not going togo away anytime soon.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Well, the, as we see here, the invention of new
materials, new alloys, newfiller, consumables yeah is, I
would say, almost monthly.
There's something new gettinginvented in the world and the
science that backs up these newprocesses is getting much more
(15:34):
defined.
It's not just like, oh, we needless manganese.
It's like, no, no, we need lessmanganese and better
weldability.
And it's good at minus 40 andand and and right.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
When they design these procedures.
Now, when I look at these newconsumables coming up, they're
very specific for heat, veryspecific for all the data that's
going in, the variables,essential variables coming in
and out.
I only see more opportunity forheat treatment.
You know industry to growsupporting the welding industry.
Yeah, a hundred percent.
I said those creep strength,those P15Es, they're really
supporting the welding industry.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Yeah, a hundred percent.
I said those creep strengthhands, those P15Es, they're
really changing the heat,treating industry, because
they're realizing that ifthey're, if they're done
improperly, that their servicelife is really reduced.
Yeah so they're really pushing.
New codes have come out.
There's a mandatory appendix insection one, now mandatory
appendix eight, which is thevery first mandatory appendix
regarding local post-bulb heattreating, which our technicians
(16:28):
do with electrical resistanceever, and that only came out
three years ago.
So that is massive that it'swritten into code now as a
mandatory appendix.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
And probably very necessary.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Yeah, and I said 1991 , there was nothing.
Absolutely Put a third of acouple here.
Go Give me a chart.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
And here's your crayon.
That's within 100 degrees.
Yeah, good luck.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
And here's your crayon, that's within a hundred
degrees.
Yeah, good luck.
Yeah, the welder's in charge ofthe preheat.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
Yeah, absolutely yeah , yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Well, we would go up there and the welder would be at
lunchtime.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Torches are just running all afternoon, that's
right.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Not dogging welding yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
No, but it's really that's very specific degrees too
hot.
I'm going to have to wait anhour, let it cool down a bit and
then, okay, now I can weld, andit's like I mean, that's a very
imprecise way of doing thingsand a waste of time.
Yeah, right, and a big waste oftime.
Yeah, now for the people thatare listening and kind of don't
understand what we're talkingabout, maybe, and how they work,
(17:23):
like, how are they differentfrom each other and what are
they used for?
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Well, for the heat treating thing.
Most of the time that we talkabout within the trade is for
electrical resistance of localpost-weld heat treating of
piping and tubing.
So a lot of components in theheat treating world are done in
ovens.
Right, they're big components,they have big ovens and you get
a really good heat treatmentwhen you do things in an oven.
Yeah, now we're trying to mimicthat.
When we do it local, yeah, theproblem with that is it's very
(17:47):
hard to do because we're notallowed to cook the whole thing.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
And the environments around you.
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
We're out in the wild , you know, with the winds, and
all different temperature.
We're trying to do it minus 40instead of a controlled
environment.
Rain or whatever.
Yeah, exactly so that theelectrical resistance process
has really changed, just withthe qualifications and the code
stuff and everything like that.
But the other heat treatingprocess is the.
They're always been there.
There's not much change in them, except we're putting a lot
(18:13):
more effort into making surewe're doing them properly.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Okay, yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Right, that's the biggest thing.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
And then for, like, electrical resistance.
Yeah, you know how does thatwork.
How does that heat up a part?
How localized can it be?
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Well, electrical resistance theoretically is,
we're running current through aresistor.
The resistor is heating up thewires and getting hot.
That wire is covered by ceramicbeads which can contain the
heat without disintegrating youknow, melting or anything like
that and then that heat istransferred to the pipe via
conduction.
So we can be very precisebecause we can make these pad
heaters.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
Kind of like the hot wires in a toaster?
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Yep, exactly, except we have them insulated and we're
controlling them and we'reputting them on manually and
stuff like that, awesome.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
So then you can, you know, relatively follow the weld
, you know, and just heat upwhat you need without heating up
what you don't need.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
That's right, yeah, don't need, that's right, yeah,
well, actually the the heatersthemselves are called flexible
ceramic pad heaters and theycome in all kinds of different
sizes and shapes.
And then the technician is theone who designs that process and
how they're going to be putonto, you know, into specific
areas and control heat sinks orheat losses or heat blocks and
all kinds of other Thermal.
Thermal dynamics is the bigword they talk about it and
that's what we have to same aswelders.
(19:22):
You know the welders got to putthe rod around there, but
everybody that looks at a welder.
It's very easy, it's not.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
No, there's a lot, and we use the terms thermal
resistivity, thermalconductivity.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
At the end of the day .
Speaker 1 (19:32):
They're all part of the dynamics family, so yeah,
exactly, so we're workingtogether, yeah.
Well, I mean post-seating waslife right, that's.
It was in every code.
We had to do it to everyanything over half inch.
We were, you know, sitting ontorches half the day and and
then they started bringing innewer equipment and electrical
resistance and it was like, oh,this is way easy, yeah and a lot
(19:56):
more precise and then theystarted bringing in technicians,
which was the next step thatwe're doing it, and we got to
just, you know, sit and watch.
And then he'd be like, yep, okay, go.
And it was like that's reallynice right right to have that
kind of uh the team?
Now it's not just you as awelder faking your way through a
preheat with very rudimentarytools.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Things are getting dialed in, right, yeah, and
you're getting a record ofsomething happening.
Well, right, because he didproduce charts and things like
that.
I didn't know how they got awaywith the tiger torch.
Now, every day, you know,everybody wants a record of
everything.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Oh man, you don't.
It was pretty rough.
Well, the funny story.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
We talk about the welding because we were working
at Sinkford in the mines orSuncor in the mines.
We were doing a bucket wheelthere, Mm-hmm, and we welding
crew, the apprentice had thewrong temp sticks, oh, and the
welder kept saying why is thisso hot?
Why is this so hot?
So he had a 600 degreeFahrenheit temp stick.
(20:52):
Right, but the other one he hadwas a 400 degree Celsius temp
stick, so your 800 degreesFahrenheit.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Yeah, yeah, they were just doing it a lot hotter.
Things happen Well.
You get it hot and then youwait an hour.
What do they say?
You lose about 70 degrees anhour in the open air, or
something like that.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Someone told me Could be.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
It was like some formula for if you screw up.
You got to wait.
These probably made upsomewhere in the field, but you
pick up a lot of those littleweird numbers out there.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Yeah, yeah, exactly Now what about induction heating
?
What?
Induction heating is acompletely different element.
I'm not a subject matter expertin induction heating.
I did took a course during theChristmas break here last year
and stuff like that.
So that's inducing a currentthrough magnetism and all kinds
of different things.
They produce eddy currents.
It's very, very scientific, butthat's used for a lot of
(21:36):
different.
It heats up stuff very, veryquickly.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
We can take something from ambient temperature up to
a thousand degrees, 2000 degreeswithin minutes.
Yeah Right, so they do that forexpansion, turbine expansion,
expansion on nuts or bolts whenthey're trying to take them off.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Yeah, shaft unit with shafts shaft, like when you
have to do sleeves.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Yeah, so the heating process is completely different
scientific world and it's justused for different things.
And we don't use induction verymuch for our local post-weld
heat treating, for post-weldheat treating after two pieces
of pipe have been weldedtogether.
Yeah, it can be, but that's notwhat it's set up.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
And it would be really expensive.
The tooling's still not ascommon, right.
That's right, yeah, and theyare very, you're right, they are
very, very expensive yeah.
Yeah, now in Alberta with yourcompany.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
You know, like you just started, you familiar with
the contractor side for 30 years.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
So what drew you in to come under the family here?
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Well, I worked with the owner there years ago.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Scott, yeah, scott.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
When I was with a different heat training
contractor.
He actually worked for me for aperiod of time and then he'd
moved over and done some otherthings and he was very
instrumental in the tradeprogram development and stuff
like that as well.
So when I was with the QCC andI was ready to transition and I
had great, great career withquality control council of
Canada as well and it was justtime for me to do something.
You know, getting a littlecloser to retirement, one last
(22:51):
kick to change something up likethat.
And me and him were talkingabout a few things and his
vision for the competencymanager role that I have within
TechEat, carrying on thetraining and everything still
with the heat treatment thing,kept everything intact with me
morally what I've been doingsince 1991.
And it's a great opportunity forme to finish my career out with
a company.
That's very, very forwardthinking and they're.
(23:12):
They like their technicians andwe want to.
You know, we are very, veryproud of the technicians and we
want to move that forward, whichnot all contractors do, and
that's what made my decision tocome over and work with Tech
Heat.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
And since you've gotten back in the industry now,
back in front of people withthe equipment, you know, kind of
back and developing andsupporting these training
programs, you know what is itthat you're going to bring to
the flavor now, Cause I'm sureyou have a vision of what you
want to see happen within tech,heat and the training.
What is it that you want tostart seeing within the company
or or bring to it?
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Well, I just want to continue making sure that the
craft is recognized.
That's really what my end goalis.
The competency part of it is toensure that our people are
being doing things the best theycan.
The tech heat way is the oneway.
So that's, that's putting itout for the tech heat way.
But most off is just to ensurethat we, you know the continued
improvement and understanding ofour craft and our technicians
(24:03):
and the importance of it.
Like with the changes, allthese new changes are coming up.
We, we get into this when we'rein this very specialized
industry.
You get into this thing.
Do people really care?
because we're so small, we don'tget recognized for it so we
really want to push that, thatthe work that we're doing is
important and and they do needus yeah, even though they don't
care when things fail.
Exactly that's when you reallycare and that's the thing with
(24:25):
our job.
It's kind of thankless becausewhat we do, the results don't.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
If you don't hear from them, it's good.
Exactly yeah, exactly Rightyeah that's a big thing is.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
I want to carry on and make sure that people are
aware of how much I appreciatethe trade and I think the trade
should be recognized and itshould be more appreciated than
it is.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
So is it something like you said it was
apprenticeship?
Is it a nationally recognizedRed Seal?
No, it's not.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
That's the that's the next mission that we're kind of
trying to look forward to yeah,and that's through the CCDA.
Well that I haven't figuredthat one quite out yet.
So it took a long time.
In Alberta, new Brunswick andnow Saskatchewan I've made
application to other provinces,but because we're so small they
really don't.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Well, and that's probably your three major mining
provinces right there too.
Yeah, probably some alignmentto that.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Yeah, and that's a good thing, and then as long as
they work together.
But now you're trying to getgovernment agencies working
together.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
And sometimes that's a little tricky.
Well, we're basically hired byCSA, right?
So trying to navigate thatsphere of supporting industry
but still keeping the governmenthappy is a tricky spot, yeah
yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
And that's what we.
I tried to navigate that withthe Quality Control Council,
which is tough because I haveother people to answer to and
some other people have differentdirectives.
But we're still going to try tofoster that within TechEat and
within the Cooper Eatorganization and stuff like that
.
So we're not going to give upon that either.
We're going to try to continuethis, and that's our end goal is
to get the trade red sealedacross Canada.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Well, that sounds super interesting.
Like I mean any.
Anytime we can develop anothertrade avenue, it means that
there's a need for it.
Industry needs it.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
And it and that's.
Uh, those are all positivethings, right, yeah, and cw is a
great organization that we cando.
Uh, you know, come to theseconferences, stuff like that,
because a lot of the cw peopleare involved with us.
You know, they work with us inthe field and then they, they
can promote us as well well,let's finish on on that note,
specifically about thisconference.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
You know what is it that?
Tech heat, cooper heat.
You know, as an umbrellacompany, hope to get out of
attending and sponsoring thesetype of events.
Well, I, I can't speak for forcooper.
You know, as an umbrellacompany, hope to get out of
attending and sponsoring thesetype of events.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Well, I can't speak for Cooper Heat, you know in
general they've only been here amonth and a bit, but I
understand they want to have theexposure.
And you know, when I talked toScott here today he said when he
comes to these things he's noteven selling his product.
He wants to do what's good forthe industry and support the
industry.
And then when you do that, goodthings happen in return.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
Yeah, so that's what we're doing.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
We're here to support the industry.
I mean, CWB is a greatorganization and that's what
we're here for.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
Have you had a pretty good response at your booth?
Today?
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Well, we don't have a booth here or anything like
that, oh, no, okay, I waswondering if you guys were set
up out there.
No, we don't have.
I'm not in the sales part, butwe're pushing it a little bit
yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
And which of the sessions have you attended?
Speaker 2 (27:07):
The other one I attended just before mine was a
heat treating of the 3D metalforming stuff there because
they're getting into heattreating issues With the WAM.
Yeah, yeah because of differentmicrostructures and stuff like
that, which I found veryinteresting, but it's very, very
new too.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Yeah, because WAM goes in at a much lower
temperature, so post heat is isvery essential, right yeah, and
I I wasn't very familiar withWHAM at all when I saw the
acronym, I had to look it up.
I'm like well, that's whatthey're called.
Everything's an acronymnowadays.
I can't keep up with it.
(27:43):
Yeah, but that's the fromCooper Heat and Tech Heat.
You guys being here presentingand being a part of the family,
you know we're always looking tosee how we can support.
So just let us know what we cando to help support your
initiatives, because I know as apersonally, as a welder, how
important this part of theindustry is right now and will
be.
You know, 30 years ago, like wesaid, it was a, it was a fly on
(28:05):
the wall.
Yeah, and now it's getting to be, it's, it's a part of codes,
there's an apprenticeship cycle.
The future is bright and strongfor for your industry.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
Oh, that's awesome.
I'm really happy that's myfirst podcast ever did.
I'm glad it was conducted by awelder.
We actually had really goodthings to talk about Absolutely,
absolutely, like.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
I mean, I've done the things that you were talking
about, yeah, so this is none.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Of this is scripted or anything you know, so that's
awesome.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
Any messages for the, for the audience, about tech
heat how to get ahold of youguys and find out about you.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
Any of the social medias.
We're online all the time we'rewe're a high tech company.
We're here to support the needsand we're here to support the
technicians, so we're definitelyyour go-to heat treating
contractor.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
I can guarantee you that Awesome, well, fantastic,
and for all the people listening, thanks so much to our sponsors
that are here at WeldingIndustry Day supporting us, and
again for all the people thathave attended and our great
staff and everybody here.
I hope you have a wonderful dayand I hope you have a wonderful
night.
We still got another day and ahalf here to go and it's going
to be fantastic.
Make sure you check out all theepisodes that we're recording
(29:11):
this week and learn and supportand, of course, we couldn't do
without our sponsors.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
So thank you very much, thank you very much.
We hope you enjoy the show.
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