January 19, 2025 • 27 mins
In this episode of The D2Z Podcast, Brandon Amoroso speaks with Ernesto Cullari and Barbara Wardell, co-founders of a geofencing ad agency. They discuss the innovative technology of geofencing, its applications in marketing, and how it can benefit both small and large businesses. The conversation covers the importance of educating clients about geofencing, the ethical considerations surrounding privacy, and the integration of AI in advertising. The episode concludes with insights into the future of geofencing and its potential growth in the advertising industry.
Here's what you'll learn:
❗Geofencing uses satellites to create virtual boundaries for targeted advertising.
❗Education is key in selling geofencing to clients unfamiliar with the technology.
❗A $1,000 ad spend can effectively cover a local area for geofencing campaigns.
❗Geofencing allows small businesses to compete with larger corporations.
❗Privacy is maintained through anonymization of user data in geofencing.
❗AI is being integrated into ad creation and targeting processes.
❗Geofencing can be used for both physical locations and online services.
❗The technology allows for precise targeting based on consumer intent and location.
❗Geofencing is projected to grow significantly in the coming years.
❗Agencies should embrace geofencing to enhance their advertising strategies.
Timestamps:
00:00 Introduction to Geofencing and Its Founders
05:59 Educating Clients on Geofencing
12:08 Targeting and Retargeting with Geofencing
18:05 The Future of Geofencing and AI Integration
24:02 Conclusion and Resources
Cullari & Wardell
Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ernestocullari/
Website - https://cwadagency.com/
Brandon Amoroso:
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/brandonamoroso/
Web - https://brandonamoroso.com/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/bamoroso11/
X - https://twitter.com/AmorosoBrandon
Scalis.ai - https://scalis.ai/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey everyone, thanks for tuning in to D2Z, a podcast
about using the Gen Z mindset togrow your business.
I'm Gen Z entrepreneur BrandonAmoroso, the former founder of
Electric and now the co-founderof Scaless, and today I'm
talking with Ernesto Cullari andBarbara Wardell, who are the
co-founders of Cullari andWardell, which is a geofencing
ad agency.
Thanks for coming on.
(00:21):
Thanks for having us, brandon.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Yeah, we're excited.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
So before we dive into everything here, can you
give everybody just a quickbackground on yourselves and
sort of the business and how yougot to this point?
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Sure, I come from a medical background specialty
medicines, insurance industry,as well as marketing, so that's
kind of, uh, the basis of whereI come up.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
I'm a mom of two and I co-founded with ernesto on the
clarion wardell geofencing uh,a bunch of years ago, when I
graduated college, I started offuh by day I was a med rep and
uh by night I moonlit as asongwriter.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Moonlighter as a moonlighter.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Had songs on Disney Radio.
Actually, I had a number onesong on Disney Radio.
I'm late for school again.
Had songs on country radio andgot involved with both politics
and then photography and thenshot for a ton of different
hotels the indigo hotel and umthe soup nazi from seinfeld and
(01:29):
a bunch of indie beautycompanies.
And then covid came aroundruined everything.
So, uh, barbara and I weretalking through covid and we
decided to focus on geofencingso I guess it didn't ruin
everything.
yeah, just ruin my bank accountfor a while, and here we are,
using 21st century technology torestore brick and mortar
(01:53):
businesses.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
So what exactly is geofencing?
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Geofencing is the use of satellites to draw virtual
fences around areas of interest.
So say, we had a client whoowned a Mercedes dealership.
We would then draw virtualfences around competing
dealerships and then businesseswhere we knew where we would
find lookalike customers.
We would capture every devicein that location.
(02:24):
We would then anonymize it.
Every device in that location,we would then anonymize it and
then we would have the right tobid for ad space across their
phones as they're reading thenews or shopping.
But the great part about it iswhen they do show up at one of
our locations, say our Mercedeslocation, the satellite pings us
alerting us that a new visit istaking place.
We do thousands of month visitsacross the US, Canada and
(02:45):
Australia, and we like it from acompetitive standpoint because
it's hardly understood.
It can be very data intensiveand complicated, so therefore
most agencies won't mess with it.
And is it your?
Speaker 1 (02:58):
own.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
Or do it well.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
Yeah, that's another thing, because it's just like
Facebook ads.
There's a million Facebookadvertising agencies or
consultants or whatever it maybe, but there's a difference
between just doing it and doingit well.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
So we have our own systems and we use demand-side
platforms to utilize our ownproprietary systems.
So we have our own targetingsystems, our own data processing
systems, our own reportingsystems.
We have our own front end forthat.
We're rolling out for clients,say in the laundry industry.
(03:37):
But we use mainstream demandside platforms, which are places
where you can buy ad space.
You know if you want to be anad buyer, you can use a demand
side platform, and so we usemultiple platforms.
But a lot of the technology isour own.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
And how do you handle you know the sort of the
ability for you to go into aspace like this, like geofencing
as an example, that it's maybenot as you know, people aren't
as familiar with it as theymight just be with, like
Facebook ads or whatever it maybe.
So when you're doing your salesprocess and bringing on clients
, how do you balance, you know,selling yourself versus also
(04:18):
selling the value or the conceptof geofencing, or is your ICP
typically, like, alreadyfamiliar with with geofencing?
That makes sense I've.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
You know, we we do spend a lot of time um educating
the public on geofencing and umin certain industries.
You know we're very well knownas the authorities in geofencing
.
The laundry industry is one ofthe industries that we have
really upended the entireindustry.
Most people that own a brickand mortar laundry business are
(04:51):
not really.
They don't have a lot of adexperience at all and, as you
can imagine, maybe they've triedtheir own Facebook ads, maybe
worked on their Google businessprofile, maybe worked on their
Google business profile.
So in that genre, in thatparticular genre, we do have a
very good name recognition.
But for the rest, yeah, peopleare very dependent on Facebook.
(05:14):
Business owners are verydependent on Facebook and social
media and then Google.
So we spend a lot of timeeducating people.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
But with Facebook and Instagram and Google, you're in
a walled garden.
You're only fighting againsteveryone in that system, whether
or not they're competition ornot, and you're spending a ton
of money.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
So by the time they hear about geofencing, it's sort
of like a breath of fresh air.
They're like, oh, this issomething completely different.
And what we appreciated aboutit is that if you're looking to
drive foot traffic, you can seehow much foot traffic you gained
as a result of your campaigns,and then, if you know the cost
or the value per customer, thevalue per visit, you can
(06:00):
immediately see what yourprofits are going to be like,
whereas with other methods it'snot quite as cut and dry.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
Is there a rough budget or type of business that
you need to be before you canmove into something like
geofencing or even single storeindependent owner operators?
They can start to takeadvantage of this Because I know
, for example, with Facebook adsor some of these other
platforms, it is a little bitmore advantageous if you have
(06:32):
more spend, just because of theway that you can iterate through
creative and testing thedifferent audiences and stuff
like that.
So it can be a little bitcost-prohibitive for some of the
early startups.
Is that the case with this, oris it sort of a one size fits
all and you can scale with it?
Speaker 3 (06:47):
So Ernesto and I did a lot of research and took a lot
of technologies to get to apoint where we understood what
really works in the three mileradius that we would target, and
it's a thousand dollar ad spend.
And the reason for this isbecause, one, we have so many
customers that we can do thisbecause of our dollar ad spend.
And the reason for this isbecause, one, we have so many
customers that we can do thisbecause of our big ad spend.
(07:07):
But the corporations that didthis, like Chipotle, starbucks,
all those, they have tens andthousands of ad spends, you know
, monthly, and we figured out athousand dollar ad spend for a
local area really covers it well.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
and, I'm sorry, take over for a minute, sorry she
others, I guess she, instead ofkissing the frog she swallowed.
So um, a thousand dollar adspend for three miles should be
quite sufficient, as she wassaying.
You know there are companiesout there that are spending
$100,000 a month in a givenregion.
(07:47):
But what's great aboutgeofencing is you can carve up a
niche for yourself.
So I'll give you an example.
During COVID, chipotle was ableto increase their pickup
business, their curbsidebusiness, and how they did that
was they were targeting otherplaces that were doing the same
(08:08):
thing and they were able toconquest their business.
However, you could compete witha Chipotle if you were a local
business by targeting everysingle Chipotle or every other
restaurant in your three-mileradius that does does say
curbside or or pickup, and youcan send them an ad to come to
your location.
When they do, this satellitewill alert us and let us know
(08:31):
that a new visit has taken place.
But geofencing on a thousanddollar budget per month will
allow you to get enough data andreturn on your investment to
look at different parts of thesales funnel and then grow your
business in different directions.
So, for example, if you do wellwith geofencing to start and
(08:53):
you're looking to drive, say, acurbside pickup or you're
looking for more in-store visits.
You can then in your say, after90 days you can consider doing
connected TV with geofencing,and because we could do it on a
zip code-based level, it's goingto be much more affordable than
a larger kind of ad buy.
So we've learned how to scalethis down to small businesses
(09:18):
and because of that it's easierto work with larger companies.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Can you talk a little bit more about that last part
that you just mentioned?
You know, the working with thelarger companies how does it?
Vary and you know more fromlike a business owner standpoint
as you've started the businessand grown.
How do you deal with balancingdifferent types of clients,
because obviously a largecorporation comes with its own
(09:45):
unique challenges that don'texist when you're working with
smaller teams.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Sure, One of the benefits to geofencing for a
larger company is that let'stake a political race, because
you can use geofencing forpolitical races and you're
targeting entire legislative andcongressional districts.
You can look at differentneighborhoods that are broken up
by.
So, for example, we live on theJersey Shore, so you can target
(10:13):
parts of a congressionaldistrict that are more focused
on, say, agriculture and voting.
You can then look at WesternNew Jersey and you can start
targeting voters block by blockwho are more concerned about the
Second Amendment.
You can then look at areas likeRed Bank, New Jersey that work
on Wall Street, and you canstart to send bespoke messages
(10:36):
to these different areas and sayyou're a hospital system and
you know that there are clustersof, say, developmental issues
with children in one region ofthe state.
You can send ads to families inthose locations that are quite
different than, say, your cancerpopulation in another area.
So rather than blanketing anddoing a blanket ad buy, you're
(10:59):
able to break it down block byblock, neighborhood by
neighborhood.
You're able to segregate adspend into different
demographics so you can break itdown to parents, single parents
.
There's just much more targetedcampaigning that you can do,
whereas you wouldn't be able todo that with a normal ad buy.
With geofencing, you literallycan identify people based on
(11:26):
their location and based ontheir banking history.
There's just a lot more data tobe used with geofencing.
So a larger company or entity,or even a political campaign,
can start whittling away.
Instead of shotgun blastingwith an ad spend, they're able
to whittle away theirmarketplace.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
Franchises as well.
Yes, it works well forfranchises, events, big events
like conferences, the Super Bowl, and not paying those high
rates can attack everybody inthere that has a cell phone.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
It does work really well for events sure.
We did a tasting, we've donemezcal and tequila tastings
where we're able to, in, like,say, parts of brooklyn, new york
, we're able to.
Where we know we're going to doa tasting for, say, one of our
clients, like electrical mezcal,we can target not only um where
, where in particular we'redoing that tasting, but we can
(12:27):
target neighborhood venues thathave similar spirits to ours and
then we can send them ads tocome to our tasting and then
over time, even after theinitial tasting campaign, we can
measure how many visits werebrought in because people saw
the ads and then asked for thatuh, particular mezcal at the
location where we did thetasting do?
Speaker 1 (12:49):
do you have to?
Does it have to be your ownevent, or can you, almost like,
hijack an event in in the senseof oh, maybe the super bowl is
coming to your area and then?
Speaker 2 (12:59):
yeah, definitely hijack it geofencing can
absolutely be used to hijack anevent.
So, um, a buddy of ours alsohas an advertising agency, uh,
within, uh, the laundromatindustry and uh, he was just
curious how many devices weregoing to end up being at this
event.
So he's a friend of ours andworks in the same industry, so
(13:21):
you know, we were able todetermine, uh, how many devices
were there and if he had wantedto turn around and then retarget
them, he could have done so.
He could have targeted all thepeople that were at that event
with ads for his agency.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
It's definitely fun.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Yeah, that's cool.
That's even more exciting, Ithink, than doing it for your
own event.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
Right, you definitely can hijack.
You definitely can hijack anevent even the a section of that
event.
You know how they're broken up,um to sections like say, the
business section or just a partof that business section.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
We can geo-fence that section of a conference and
then later on target them, ifyou want, after the event the
polygons could be hand-drawn soyou could be very specific, down
to just a few feet of whatyou're looking of, whom you're
looking to target.
So that's why it's veryeffective.
You can draw certain inferencesbased on people's location as
(14:19):
to what they're interested in,because location is highly
indicative of true consumerintent.
So if you're in a Mercedesdealership, you're most likely
there to get your car servicedor to buy another one.
So therefore, if we'readvertising for a competing kind
of dealership, say BMW or Tesla, we're able to do so and we're
(14:40):
able to entice people that areat those locations to consider
our product, because location ismore Ind your search habits.
You know, just because you'reonline searching for certain
products doesn't mean you'llpurchase those products, but if
you're in a location looking atthem, then it's more likely that
if we give you a better offer,a better enticement to come to
(15:04):
say, consider our product,you're more likely to do so how,
how does it work?
Speaker 1 (15:12):
um, from like a privacy standpoint for, uh, the
people that are actuallyreceiving the ads.
And then also, what, what dothe ad, what do the ads actually
look like and like?
Could you give an example of uh, you know somebody who's
listening what they would see ifthey were the recipient of a
geo sort of targeted ad?
Is it coming through?
You know somebody who'slistening what they would see if
they were the recipient of ageo sort of targeted ad?
Is it coming through?
(15:32):
You know Google.
You know search listings whenyou're typing oh, I know I want
an ice cream spot near me, orsomething like that, or what
does it actually look like?
Speaker 3 (15:41):
So, basically, for your first question, we
anonymize your device so it goesthrough a clean room.
We don't know your name.
Like Facebook, google,instagram, they have your actual
name, so they can't have allthe data that we have.
So we have more data because wedon't know the actual person's
name.
We know, kind of, where they'regoing, but we don't know their
(16:02):
actual name, so we can makeinferences from their patterns
of where their phone goes.
So it's anonymized, so it's notthat creepy.
And let me tell you something,they have more data than you can
ever even imagine.
So we're on the least end ofthat one.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Clean rooms, keep it ethical.
So you know we're not invadinganyone's privacy.
You know I don't want to getsued, but you know we're not
invading anyone's privacy.
You know I don't want to getsued, but you know anyone out
there can tell you that certainplatforms you know they'll talk
about something and then thenext thing you know, on that
platform you'll end up seeing anad for something you spoke
about and that's quite untrue.
(16:43):
This is completely differentthan that.
You know, as we said before,location is indicative of true
consumer intent and that's afact.
You know that if you're in agiven location, that you're more
interested in certain products.
So, for example, if you're aparent with kids in karate and
you happen to be, you know, in akarate school location two or
(17:04):
three times a week, you know ifwe send you safety gear,
headgear ads, you're more likelyto be interested in keeping
your kids brain safe and noconcussions there right as
you're watching them, get hitaround it doesn't require spy,
uh, spying, so um, but this,this technology is quite
(17:27):
effective.
I I mean, wired Magazine justran an ad, not an ad, but Wired
Magazine right now has a YouTubeepisode out where they're using
our technology one of ourpartners' technologies to track
people who are at Epstein Island.
They're able to see who was atEpstein Island a half hour
before and a half hour after.
(17:48):
I would say everyone listeningand watching this podcast should
go out and go to YouTube andcheck out that episode from
Wired Magazine.
I think you'll find it quiteinteresting.
This technology is quiteprecise and the government can
use it to be intrusive.
We use it.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
Like in Australia.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Australia used it during covid to make sure people
weren't out on the um havingfun on the beach.
You know, because everyoneknows covid comes from the.
They were like go home yeah, sothey were using it to spy on
people and to police them, uh,but we use it quite benevolently
to uh send interest-based adsto people based on their
location and um.
We mix that with othertechnologies like foot traffic
(18:29):
studies.
So basically, you know, we'reable to take our technologies,
we're able to look at locationsthat people were in and then
we're able to, you know, todetermine is this a viable area
to do, to say, advertise forcompany X, y and Z, and then we
are able to look at data overthe last two years, see what
(18:52):
kind of um population, see whattheir um socioeconomic breakdown
is, and that uh can be quiteinformative as to whether you
should open a business there orwhether you should augment your
services there and um.
So, and what the ads look likeis I mean, there's any ad
inventory that you can imaginefor geofencing?
(19:14):
They could be display ads, theycould be native ads, they could
be TV ads, they could be audioads and actually, for the first
time ever, we are now able tooffer services locally online
with Amazon.
So basically, as everyone knows,previously you were only able
to if you were an Amazon selleryou could sell products on
(19:38):
Amazon, but we're probably oneof the first companies in the
country able to offer yourservices locally online on
Amazon.
So if you're a dentist, someonesearches for teeth whitening
products, you're able to offercleaning services opportunities,
up an appointment on Amazon.
If you're an HVAC company andsomeone's searching for a
(20:00):
generator because the winter'scoming and power's bound to go
out, so you're able to, then, asan HVAC company, offer services
to install those generators,even though you won't be able to
sell them on Amazon becausethat product is already being
offered by approved Amazonsellers, you can at least offer
your services to install thatproduct now on Amazon, but
(20:24):
you're able to do it locally.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
And it's so exciting that we got this opportunity to
do that.
Another tool in our toolbox tomake sure that our customers are
getting the best technology toget their customers in the door.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
The whole desire has been to keep it local, to enable
brick and mortar businesses tocompete locally against bigger
companies.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
Little cuts at a time .
Right, that's right.
And we also can drive foottraffic to a website.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Yeah, you can drive.
Instead of just simply tryingto get people through the door,
we're able to use the sametechnologies and methodologies
to drive traffic to landingpages or to websites.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Got it Okay, so it can be applicable for those who
even don't have that retailfootprint, or maybe it's on the
smaller side too?
Sure, absolutely, and is thereany?
(21:25):
Like you know, every industryAI has impacted it in some way.
Is there more or less impactwithin yours and anything that
excites you moving forward withthat as?
Speaker 2 (21:38):
well, ai has definitely helped us out in
terms of ad creatives.
No-transcript.
(22:03):
Driving down a country roadwith a blurred effect, mud up
and mud being shot up in the air.
Uh, driver with sunglasses oncaucasian 50 years old you've
been working on this you're ableto, you're able to generate
that image, uh, like one, likeperfectly, um, if, if you're
(22:28):
really good at the commands andyou really know, want to know,
if you really know what you wantto see in the image.
Now, if I had to produce thatas a photographer, I'd then have
to coordinate with thedealership.
I then have to coordinate witha model.
I then have to pay that model xamount.
I have to have insurance forthe event and I just saved
myself.
Basically, ten thousand,minimum ten thousand dollars,
(22:49):
and the customer, sure I justsaved myself basically 10,000
minimum $10,000.
Sure, I just saved the the, theclient as well, say $50,000.
So we're able to do um, we'reable to create content um, quite
expensive looking contentthrough AI Also.
Uh, for our platforms, we're,you know, we're rolling out
platforms where, um, where AIwill be more involved with the
(23:12):
self-service process of someonewho maybe doesn't want to afford
our agency fees.
They might want to work in ourself-serve platform which is
rolling out in January.
They would be able to save somemoney there.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
Yeah, and help them get the clients in the door.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
save some money there , yeah, and help them get the
clients in the door.
But AI is definitely for peopleout there that are looking to
do their own ads.
I actually wouldn't recommendthat.
But hey, if you think you'resavvy enough and you're not part
of an agency, there are certainplatforms out there like
Creatopy C-R-E-A-T-O-P-Y.
(23:50):
Not only can you create yourads with AI assistance and
translate them into multiplelanguages, but they're also a
demand side platform, so you canbuy ad space for your display
ads.
So it is exciting.
I actually don't mind that.
There are platforms out therefor the consumer to try it
themselves.
I think really, once they tryit themselves, they'll see like
(24:14):
hey, you know what?
It was all good, I just got agreat education.
I'm going to hire aprofessional.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
Because then you understand it.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Sure absolutely.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
And we did a lot of work for our dashboard and all
the reporting systems.
We put a lot of money into itto make sure that it is
streamlined for the customer.
They understand where their adwas seen and what customers it
brought in, how many, and Ithink overall it's just we're
(24:41):
incorporating all the stuff thatis coming out in technology
that's new into our systems aswell so that our customers can
grow faster, because whenthey're smaller mid-sized to
small they don't always have thetime or the money to put into
that technology, so we have doneit for them.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Actually, now that you mentioned that, we often
(25:26):
take for granted just how muchinformation we do have, so we're
able to learn.
If we sent you a yeah, you knowagencies should also embrace it
more, because, especiallyagencies that start off as
creatives, like we did, you knowyou like creating content, you
like creating high quality, youknow images and TV commercials.
(25:48):
Geofencing will allow you tosurgically place it and save
your client money in the end.
So the future for this isenormous.
It's in the billions, it'sactually in the tens of billions
.
It's projected to growlocation-based advertising,
geofencing in particular, so andthere's technologies out there
for consumers, or rather forbusiness owners themselves, to
(26:11):
start experimenting with.
Ai is one of them, where youcan start messing with your own
ad creation, and I recommendthey do that.
It's a good education for whyyou actually need professionals
to do it.
Speaker 3 (26:24):
I agree.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Well, I appreciate you two coming on and sharing
all of your insights.
I'm excited to try and hijackmy first event next year and see
if we can take advantageourselves of some of this
geo-targeting.
But before we hop, can you leteverybody know who's listening
and we'll include it in the shownotes as well but where they
can find and connect with youonline?
Speaker 3 (26:47):
So we're at clarymediacom
C-U-L-L-A-R-I-M-E-D-I-Acom.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Awesome.
Well, again, thanks for comingon For everybody listening.
As always, this is BrandonAmoroso.
You can find me atbrandonamorosocom or scalessai.
Thanks for listening and we'llsee you next time.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
Bye.
Hey everyone, thanks for tuning in to D2Z, a podcast
about using the Gen Z mindset togrow your business.
I'm Gen Z entrepreneur BrandonAmoroso, the former founder of
Electric and now the co-founderof Scaless, and today I'm
talking with Ernesto Cullari andBarbara Wardell, who are the
co-founders of Cullari andWardell, which is a geofencing
ad agency.
Thanks for coming on.
(00:21):
Thanks for having us, brandon.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Yeah, we're excited.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
So before we dive into everything here, can you
give everybody just a quickbackground on yourselves and
sort of the business and how yougot to this point?
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Sure, I come from a medical background specialty
medicines, insurance industry,as well as marketing, so that's
kind of, uh, the basis of whereI come up.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
I'm a mom of two and I co-founded with ernesto on the
clarion wardell geofencing uh,a bunch of years ago, when I
graduated college, I started offuh by day I was a med rep and
uh by night I moonlit as asongwriter.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Moonlighter as a moonlighter.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Had songs on Disney Radio.
Actually, I had a number onesong on Disney Radio.
I'm late for school again.
Had songs on country radio andgot involved with both politics
and then photography and thenshot for a ton of different
hotels the indigo hotel and umthe soup nazi from seinfeld and
(01:29):
a bunch of indie beautycompanies.
And then covid came aroundruined everything.
So, uh, barbara and I weretalking through covid and we
decided to focus on geofencingso I guess it didn't ruin
everything.
yeah, just ruin my bank accountfor a while, and here we are,
using 21st century technology torestore brick and mortar
(01:53):
businesses.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
So what exactly is geofencing?
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Geofencing is the use of satellites to draw virtual
fences around areas of interest.
So say, we had a client whoowned a Mercedes dealership.
We would then draw virtualfences around competing
dealerships and then businesseswhere we knew where we would
find lookalike customers.
We would capture every devicein that location.
(02:24):
We would then anonymize it.
Every device in that location,we would then anonymize it and
then we would have the right tobid for ad space across their
phones as they're reading thenews or shopping.
But the great part about it iswhen they do show up at one of
our locations, say our Mercedeslocation, the satellite pings us
alerting us that a new visit istaking place.
We do thousands of month visitsacross the US, Canada and
(02:45):
Australia, and we like it from acompetitive standpoint because
it's hardly understood.
It can be very data intensiveand complicated, so therefore
most agencies won't mess with it.
And is it your?
Speaker 1 (02:58):
own.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
Or do it well.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
Yeah, that's another thing, because it's just like
Facebook ads.
There's a million Facebookadvertising agencies or
consultants or whatever it maybe, but there's a difference
between just doing it and doingit well.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
So we have our own systems and we use demand-side
platforms to utilize our ownproprietary systems.
So we have our own targetingsystems, our own data processing
systems, our own reportingsystems.
We have our own front end forthat.
We're rolling out for clients,say in the laundry industry.
(03:37):
But we use mainstream demandside platforms, which are places
where you can buy ad space.
You know if you want to be anad buyer, you can use a demand
side platform, and so we usemultiple platforms.
But a lot of the technology isour own.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
And how do you handle you know the sort of the
ability for you to go into aspace like this, like geofencing
as an example, that it's maybenot as you know, people aren't
as familiar with it as theymight just be with, like
Facebook ads or whatever it maybe.
So when you're doing your salesprocess and bringing on clients
, how do you balance, you know,selling yourself versus also
(04:18):
selling the value or the conceptof geofencing, or is your ICP
typically, like, alreadyfamiliar with with geofencing?
That makes sense I've.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
You know, we we do spend a lot of time um educating
the public on geofencing and umin certain industries.
You know we're very well knownas the authorities in geofencing
.
The laundry industry is one ofthe industries that we have
really upended the entireindustry.
Most people that own a brickand mortar laundry business are
(04:51):
not really.
They don't have a lot of adexperience at all and, as you
can imagine, maybe they've triedtheir own Facebook ads, maybe
worked on their Google businessprofile, maybe worked on their
Google business profile.
So in that genre, in thatparticular genre, we do have a
very good name recognition.
But for the rest, yeah, peopleare very dependent on Facebook.
(05:14):
Business owners are verydependent on Facebook and social
media and then Google.
So we spend a lot of timeeducating people.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
But with Facebook and Instagram and Google, you're in
a walled garden.
You're only fighting againsteveryone in that system, whether
or not they're competition ornot, and you're spending a ton
of money.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
So by the time they hear about geofencing, it's sort
of like a breath of fresh air.
They're like, oh, this issomething completely different.
And what we appreciated aboutit is that if you're looking to
drive foot traffic, you can seehow much foot traffic you gained
as a result of your campaigns,and then, if you know the cost
or the value per customer, thevalue per visit, you can
(06:00):
immediately see what yourprofits are going to be like,
whereas with other methods it'snot quite as cut and dry.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
Is there a rough budget or type of business that
you need to be before you canmove into something like
geofencing or even single storeindependent owner operators?
They can start to takeadvantage of this Because I know
, for example, with Facebook adsor some of these other
platforms, it is a little bitmore advantageous if you have
(06:32):
more spend, just because of theway that you can iterate through
creative and testing thedifferent audiences and stuff
like that.
So it can be a little bitcost-prohibitive for some of the
early startups.
Is that the case with this, oris it sort of a one size fits
all and you can scale with it?
Speaker 3 (06:47):
So Ernesto and I did a lot of research and took a lot
of technologies to get to apoint where we understood what
really works in the three mileradius that we would target, and
it's a thousand dollar ad spend.
And the reason for this isbecause, one, we have so many
customers that we can do thisbecause of our dollar ad spend.
And the reason for this isbecause, one, we have so many
customers that we can do thisbecause of our big ad spend.
(07:07):
But the corporations that didthis, like Chipotle, starbucks,
all those, they have tens andthousands of ad spends, you know
, monthly, and we figured out athousand dollar ad spend for a
local area really covers it well.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
and, I'm sorry, take over for a minute, sorry she
others, I guess she, instead ofkissing the frog she swallowed.
So um, a thousand dollar adspend for three miles should be
quite sufficient, as she wassaying.
You know there are companiesout there that are spending
$100,000 a month in a givenregion.
(07:47):
But what's great aboutgeofencing is you can carve up a
niche for yourself.
So I'll give you an example.
During COVID, chipotle was ableto increase their pickup
business, their curbsidebusiness, and how they did that
was they were targeting otherplaces that were doing the same
(08:08):
thing and they were able toconquest their business.
However, you could compete witha Chipotle if you were a local
business by targeting everysingle Chipotle or every other
restaurant in your three-mileradius that does does say
curbside or or pickup, and youcan send them an ad to come to
your location.
When they do, this satellitewill alert us and let us know
(08:31):
that a new visit has taken place.
But geofencing on a thousanddollar budget per month will
allow you to get enough data andreturn on your investment to
look at different parts of thesales funnel and then grow your
business in different directions.
So, for example, if you do wellwith geofencing to start and
(08:53):
you're looking to drive, say, acurbside pickup or you're
looking for more in-store visits.
You can then in your say, after90 days you can consider doing
connected TV with geofencing,and because we could do it on a
zip code-based level, it's goingto be much more affordable than
a larger kind of ad buy.
So we've learned how to scalethis down to small businesses
(09:18):
and because of that it's easierto work with larger companies.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Can you talk a little bit more about that last part
that you just mentioned?
You know, the working with thelarger companies how does it?
Vary and you know more fromlike a business owner standpoint
as you've started the businessand grown.
How do you deal with balancingdifferent types of clients,
because obviously a largecorporation comes with its own
(09:45):
unique challenges that don'texist when you're working with
smaller teams.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Sure, One of the benefits to geofencing for a
larger company is that let'stake a political race, because
you can use geofencing forpolitical races and you're
targeting entire legislative andcongressional districts.
You can look at differentneighborhoods that are broken up
by.
So, for example, we live on theJersey Shore, so you can target
(10:13):
parts of a congressionaldistrict that are more focused
on, say, agriculture and voting.
You can then look at WesternNew Jersey and you can start
targeting voters block by blockwho are more concerned about the
Second Amendment.
You can then look at areas likeRed Bank, New Jersey that work
on Wall Street, and you canstart to send bespoke messages
(10:36):
to these different areas and sayyou're a hospital system and
you know that there are clustersof, say, developmental issues
with children in one region ofthe state.
You can send ads to families inthose locations that are quite
different than, say, your cancerpopulation in another area.
So rather than blanketing anddoing a blanket ad buy, you're
(10:59):
able to break it down block byblock, neighborhood by
neighborhood.
You're able to segregate adspend into different
demographics so you can break itdown to parents, single parents
.
There's just much more targetedcampaigning that you can do,
whereas you wouldn't be able todo that with a normal ad buy.
With geofencing, you literallycan identify people based on
(11:26):
their location and based ontheir banking history.
There's just a lot more data tobe used with geofencing.
So a larger company or entity,or even a political campaign,
can start whittling away.
Instead of shotgun blastingwith an ad spend, they're able
to whittle away theirmarketplace.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
Franchises as well.
Yes, it works well forfranchises, events, big events
like conferences, the Super Bowl, and not paying those high
rates can attack everybody inthere that has a cell phone.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
It does work really well for events sure.
We did a tasting, we've donemezcal and tequila tastings
where we're able to, in, like,say, parts of brooklyn, new york
, we're able to.
Where we know we're going to doa tasting for, say, one of our
clients, like electrical mezcal,we can target not only um where
, where in particular we'redoing that tasting, but we can
(12:27):
target neighborhood venues thathave similar spirits to ours and
then we can send them ads tocome to our tasting and then
over time, even after theinitial tasting campaign, we can
measure how many visits werebrought in because people saw
the ads and then asked for thatuh, particular mezcal at the
location where we did thetasting do?
Speaker 1 (12:49):
do you have to?
Does it have to be your ownevent, or can you, almost like,
hijack an event in in the senseof oh, maybe the super bowl is
coming to your area and then?
Speaker 2 (12:59):
yeah, definitely hijack it geofencing can
absolutely be used to hijack anevent.
So, um, a buddy of ours alsohas an advertising agency, uh,
within, uh, the laundromatindustry and uh, he was just
curious how many devices weregoing to end up being at this
event.
So he's a friend of ours andworks in the same industry, so
(13:21):
you know, we were able todetermine, uh, how many devices
were there and if he had wantedto turn around and then retarget
them, he could have done so.
He could have targeted all thepeople that were at that event
with ads for his agency.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
It's definitely fun.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Yeah, that's cool.
That's even more exciting, Ithink, than doing it for your
own event.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
Right, you definitely can hijack.
You definitely can hijack anevent even the a section of that
event.
You know how they're broken up,um to sections like say, the
business section or just a partof that business section.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
We can geo-fence that section of a conference and
then later on target them, ifyou want, after the event the
polygons could be hand-drawn soyou could be very specific, down
to just a few feet of whatyou're looking of, whom you're
looking to target.
So that's why it's veryeffective.
You can draw certain inferencesbased on people's location as
(14:19):
to what they're interested in,because location is highly
indicative of true consumerintent.
So if you're in a Mercedesdealership, you're most likely
there to get your car servicedor to buy another one.
So therefore, if we'readvertising for a competing kind
of dealership, say BMW or Tesla, we're able to do so and we're
(14:40):
able to entice people that areat those locations to consider
our product, because location ismore Ind your search habits.
You know, just because you'reonline searching for certain
products doesn't mean you'llpurchase those products, but if
you're in a location looking atthem, then it's more likely that
if we give you a better offer,a better enticement to come to
(15:04):
say, consider our product,you're more likely to do so how,
how does it work?
Speaker 1 (15:12):
um, from like a privacy standpoint for, uh, the
people that are actuallyreceiving the ads.
And then also, what, what dothe ad, what do the ads actually
look like and like?
Could you give an example of uh, you know somebody who's
listening what they would see ifthey were the recipient of a
geo sort of targeted ad?
Is it coming through?
You know somebody who'slistening what they would see if
they were the recipient of ageo sort of targeted ad?
Is it coming through?
(15:32):
You know Google.
You know search listings whenyou're typing oh, I know I want
an ice cream spot near me, orsomething like that, or what
does it actually look like?
Speaker 3 (15:41):
So, basically, for your first question, we
anonymize your device so it goesthrough a clean room.
We don't know your name.
Like Facebook, google,instagram, they have your actual
name, so they can't have allthe data that we have.
So we have more data because wedon't know the actual person's
name.
We know, kind of, where they'regoing, but we don't know their
(16:02):
actual name, so we can makeinferences from their patterns
of where their phone goes.
So it's anonymized, so it's notthat creepy.
And let me tell you something,they have more data than you can
ever even imagine.
So we're on the least end ofthat one.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Clean rooms, keep it ethical.
So you know we're not invadinganyone's privacy.
You know I don't want to getsued, but you know we're not
invading anyone's privacy.
You know I don't want to getsued, but you know anyone out
there can tell you that certainplatforms you know they'll talk
about something and then thenext thing you know, on that
platform you'll end up seeing anad for something you spoke
about and that's quite untrue.
(16:43):
This is completely differentthan that.
You know, as we said before,location is indicative of true
consumer intent and that's afact.
You know that if you're in agiven location, that you're more
interested in certain products.
So, for example, if you're aparent with kids in karate and
you happen to be, you know, in akarate school location two or
(17:04):
three times a week, you know ifwe send you safety gear,
headgear ads, you're more likelyto be interested in keeping
your kids brain safe and noconcussions there right as
you're watching them, get hitaround it doesn't require spy,
uh, spying, so um, but this,this technology is quite
(17:27):
effective.
I I mean, wired Magazine justran an ad, not an ad, but Wired
Magazine right now has a YouTubeepisode out where they're using
our technology one of ourpartners' technologies to track
people who are at Epstein Island.
They're able to see who was atEpstein Island a half hour
before and a half hour after.
(17:48):
I would say everyone listeningand watching this podcast should
go out and go to YouTube andcheck out that episode from
Wired Magazine.
I think you'll find it quiteinteresting.
This technology is quiteprecise and the government can
use it to be intrusive.
We use it.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
Like in Australia.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Australia used it during covid to make sure people
weren't out on the um havingfun on the beach.
You know, because everyoneknows covid comes from the.
They were like go home yeah, sothey were using it to spy on
people and to police them, uh,but we use it quite benevolently
to uh send interest-based adsto people based on their
location and um.
We mix that with othertechnologies like foot traffic
(18:29):
studies.
So basically, you know, we'reable to take our technologies,
we're able to look at locationsthat people were in and then
we're able to, you know, todetermine is this a viable area
to do, to say, advertise forcompany X, y and Z, and then we
are able to look at data overthe last two years, see what
(18:52):
kind of um population, see whattheir um socioeconomic breakdown
is, and that uh can be quiteinformative as to whether you
should open a business there orwhether you should augment your
services there and um.
So, and what the ads look likeis I mean, there's any ad
inventory that you can imaginefor geofencing?
(19:14):
They could be display ads, theycould be native ads, they could
be TV ads, they could be audioads and actually, for the first
time ever, we are now able tooffer services locally online
with Amazon.
So basically, as everyone knows,previously you were only able
to if you were an Amazon selleryou could sell products on
(19:38):
Amazon, but we're probably oneof the first companies in the
country able to offer yourservices locally online on
Amazon.
So if you're a dentist, someonesearches for teeth whitening
products, you're able to offercleaning services opportunities,
up an appointment on Amazon.
If you're an HVAC company andsomeone's searching for a
(20:00):
generator because the winter'scoming and power's bound to go
out, so you're able to, then, asan HVAC company, offer services
to install those generators,even though you won't be able to
sell them on Amazon becausethat product is already being
offered by approved Amazonsellers, you can at least offer
your services to install thatproduct now on Amazon, but
(20:24):
you're able to do it locally.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
And it's so exciting that we got this opportunity to
do that.
Another tool in our toolbox tomake sure that our customers are
getting the best technology toget their customers in the door.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
The whole desire has been to keep it local, to enable
brick and mortar businesses tocompete locally against bigger
companies.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
Little cuts at a time .
Right, that's right.
And we also can drive foottraffic to a website.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Yeah, you can drive.
Instead of just simply tryingto get people through the door,
we're able to use the sametechnologies and methodologies
to drive traffic to landingpages or to websites.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Got it Okay, so it can be applicable for those who
even don't have that retailfootprint, or maybe it's on the
smaller side too?
Sure, absolutely, and is thereany?
(21:25):
Like you know, every industryAI has impacted it in some way.
Is there more or less impactwithin yours and anything that
excites you moving forward withthat as?
Speaker 2 (21:38):
well, ai has definitely helped us out in
terms of ad creatives.
No-transcript.
(22:03):
Driving down a country roadwith a blurred effect, mud up
and mud being shot up in the air.
Uh, driver with sunglasses oncaucasian 50 years old you've
been working on this you're ableto, you're able to generate
that image, uh, like one, likeperfectly, um, if, if you're
(22:28):
really good at the commands andyou really know, want to know,
if you really know what you wantto see in the image.
Now, if I had to produce thatas a photographer, I'd then have
to coordinate with thedealership.
I then have to coordinate witha model.
I then have to pay that model xamount.
I have to have insurance forthe event and I just saved
myself.
Basically, ten thousand,minimum ten thousand dollars,
(22:49):
and the customer, sure I justsaved myself basically 10,000
minimum $10,000.
Sure, I just saved the the, theclient as well, say $50,000.
So we're able to do um, we'reable to create content um, quite
expensive looking contentthrough AI Also.
Uh, for our platforms, we're,you know, we're rolling out
platforms where, um, where AIwill be more involved with the
(23:12):
self-service process of someonewho maybe doesn't want to afford
our agency fees.
They might want to work in ourself-serve platform which is
rolling out in January.
They would be able to save somemoney there.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
Yeah, and help them get the clients in the door.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
save some money there , yeah, and help them get the
clients in the door.
But AI is definitely for peopleout there that are looking to
do their own ads.
I actually wouldn't recommendthat.
But hey, if you think you'resavvy enough and you're not part
of an agency, there are certainplatforms out there like
Creatopy C-R-E-A-T-O-P-Y.
(23:50):
Not only can you create yourads with AI assistance and
translate them into multiplelanguages, but they're also a
demand side platform, so you canbuy ad space for your display
ads.
So it is exciting.
I actually don't mind that.
There are platforms out therefor the consumer to try it
themselves.
I think really, once they tryit themselves, they'll see like
(24:14):
hey, you know what?
It was all good, I just got agreat education.
I'm going to hire aprofessional.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
Because then you understand it.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Sure absolutely.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
And we did a lot of work for our dashboard and all
the reporting systems.
We put a lot of money into itto make sure that it is
streamlined for the customer.
They understand where their adwas seen and what customers it
brought in, how many, and Ithink overall it's just we're
(24:41):
incorporating all the stuff thatis coming out in technology
that's new into our systems aswell so that our customers can
grow faster, because whenthey're smaller mid-sized to
small they don't always have thetime or the money to put into
that technology, so we have doneit for them.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Actually, now that you mentioned that, we often
(25:26):
take for granted just how muchinformation we do have, so we're
able to learn.
If we sent you a yeah, you knowagencies should also embrace it
more, because, especiallyagencies that start off as
creatives, like we did, you knowyou like creating content, you
like creating high quality, youknow images and TV commercials.
(25:48):
Geofencing will allow you tosurgically place it and save
your client money in the end.
So the future for this isenormous.
It's in the billions, it'sactually in the tens of billions
.
It's projected to growlocation-based advertising,
geofencing in particular, so andthere's technologies out there
for consumers, or rather forbusiness owners themselves, to
(26:11):
start experimenting with.
Ai is one of them, where youcan start messing with your own
ad creation, and I recommendthey do that.
It's a good education for whyyou actually need professionals
to do it.
Speaker 3 (26:24):
I agree.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Well, I appreciate you two coming on and sharing
all of your insights.
I'm excited to try and hijackmy first event next year and see
if we can take advantageourselves of some of this
geo-targeting.
But before we hop, can you leteverybody know who's listening
and we'll include it in the shownotes as well but where they
can find and connect with youonline?
Speaker 3 (26:47):
So we're at clarymediacom
C-U-L-L-A-R-I-M-E-D-I-Acom.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Awesome.
Well, again, thanks for comingon For everybody listening.
As always, this is BrandonAmoroso.
You can find me atbrandonamorosocom or scalessai.
Thanks for listening and we'llsee you next time.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
Bye.
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