February 2, 2025 • 26 mins
In this episode of D2Z, host Brandon Amoroso speaks with Daniela Bolesman, CEO of Mindful Goods, about the intricacies of navigating the Amazon marketplace. Daniela shares her journey from a marketing background to establishing a niche agency focused on optimizing Amazon product listings. The conversation delves into the importance of specialization, the evolution of Amazon's ecosystem, and strategies for new brands to succeed on the platform. Daniela emphasizes the need for continuous testing and adaptation in a rapidly changing environment, as well as the significance of maintaining a focused approach to service offerings. The episode concludes with practical tips for brands looking to enhance their presence on Amazon and insights into the future of social commerce.
Here's What You'll Learn:
❗Narrowing down to a niche can lead to greater success.
❗Staying focused on your core competencies is crucial.
❗Testing creatives on Amazon is essential for optimization.
❗Brands should not rely solely on paid advertising for success.
❗Understanding SEO is key to getting found on Amazon.
❗The landscape of Amazon is constantly evolving with new tools.
❗Brands can still succeed on Amazon without a large budget.
❗Social commerce is an area Amazon is working to improve.
❗Maintaining multiple sales channels is important for stability.
❗Clear and appealing product listings drive conversions.
Timestamps:
00:00 Introduction to E-commerce and Amazon
02:57 Narrowing Down to a Niche
06:07 Staying in Your Lane: The Importance of Focus
09:02 Adapting to Changes in Amazon's Ecosystem
11:47 The Evolution of Amazon Listings
14:59 Strategies for New Brands on Amazon
17:53 Navigating Challenges in E-commerce
20:59 The Future of Social Commerce on Amazon
23:58 Final Tips for Amazon Success
Daniela Bolzmann:
Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/dbolzmann/
Mindful Goods - https://mindfulgoods.co/
Brandon Amoroso:
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/brandonamoroso/
Web - https://brandonamoroso.com/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/bamoroso11/
X - https://twitter.com/AmorosoBrandon
Scalis.ai - https://scalis.ai/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey everyone, thanks for tuning in to D2Z, a podcast
about using the Gen Z mindset togrow your business.
I'm a Gen Z entrepreneur, aformer founder of Electric and
now the co-founder of Scaless,and today I'm talking with
Danielle Bolesman, who's the CEOand founder of Mindful Goods,
which is a go-to one-stop shopfor high-quality Amazon product
pages and storefronts fore-commerce brands.
(00:21):
Thanks for coming on the show.
Thanks for having me, pleasureto be here.
So, before we dive into things,can you give everybody just a
quick background on yourself andhow you got into the exciting
world of Amazon?
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Sure.
So my background is actuallymore on the marketing and tech
side and after exiting my laststartup, I was very interested
in getting into the e-com spaceand was trying to decide if I
wanted to go more of the D2Croute or the Amazon route and
ultimately ended up going downthe Amazon route and, as you
know, that is its own beast initself.
(00:56):
So once I did that, I startedoff actually this agency as a
full service Amazon agency,actually this agency as a full
service Amazon agency.
After a couple years of pullingmy hair out, I realized that we
needed to niche down and reallyspecialize in one piece of the
puzzle which became our zone ofgenius, and that is the SEO and
creative optimization to helpbrands convert better on Amazon.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
What was the process like for you to sort of come
upon that realization and thendecide you know, this is what it
is that we're going to hone inon within the Amazon ecosystem?
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Yeah, the process for me because I have a marketing
background was I was realizingwe were creating unique
strategies for every singleclient.
Every client, every product isin kind of a different category.
There's different budgets,there's different stages that
they're at, and we realize thatnot every brand should be doing
everything at once.
(01:51):
There's different things thatthey have bandwidth for, there's
things that they have budgetfor and there's things that they
don't, and so that becomes areally hard thing to do at scale
and I realized we were justcapping ourselves at the number
of clients we could bring on andstressing ourselves out.
To be honest, we were doing allthe things and I can't say we
were doing anything.
Well, our clients loved usbecause we were very hands-on,
(02:14):
but that can only take you sofar.
So in that realization, Istarted really just figuring out
what are all the things thatwe've taken on, because we were
a yes team.
We would say yes to everything.
They wanted a landing page?
We would build a landing page.
They needed help on theirShopify?
We would help with the Shopify.
They needed help with, you know, running ads we would run ads.
(02:35):
Needed help prep and ship.
We would say, yes, we'll dothat.
Need a chat bot We'll buildthat were just doing all the
things and that really stretchedour bandwidth and once I
realized that we know how to doall of these things.
It doesn't mean that everyclient needs all these things or
we should be doing all thesethings, but what is the common
thing that every brand needs andthey need to be doing well on
(02:56):
Amazon and within that, what isthe piece of the pie that
actually brings our team joythat we could do day in and day
out for the next 10 years andstill be satisfied and fulfilled
and happy.
So it was just as much like apersonal introspection as it was
a skill evaluation, a teamevaluation, a strategy
evaluation, all of that.
(03:17):
And initially I didn't offerthat piece of it publicly.
I started offering it to ourretainer clients and then
actually clients that came to usand they couldn't afford our
retainers, but I knew that theywere a good fit for that
specific offer.
I would say you know what?
You don't have the budget forour retainer.
(03:39):
I get that, but one of thethings that you absolutely need
to do is make sure that yourlistings are top-notch and
converting before you go andspend all this money on ads.
If you want, we can help youwith just that one piece at this
one set price, no retainerobligation.
So we started kind of thetraining wheels of doing that
and building the process behindthat right when we're about six
(04:01):
months into that before COVIDhit.
We were about six months intothat before COVID hit and when
COVID hit, all of our retainerclients wanted out of their
contracts because everyoneneeded to stay cash liquid.
Everyone was changing theirstrategy, scared about their
money, scared about everything,and I completely understood
where everybody was at.
So I basically just said, youknow what I get it?
Totally fine, I let anybody whowanted out of their contract
(04:22):
out of their contract.
And I realized, you know,totally fine, I let anybody who
wanted out of their contract outof their contract.
And I realized we need to justflip our model at this time and
we went from offering retaineron our website to turning that
off and just straight offeringlisting optimization services,
just flat rate.
And so all of those tens ofthousands, even hundreds of
thousands of brands that hadtheir retail doors close on them
(04:43):
had to be selling on Amazonalmost immediately, and so we
were, within 30 days, justflooded with orders that ended
up being, you know, 3x what ourretainer clients were paying us.
So after that moment we justnever went back, you know.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
That definitely helps with the decision-making
process.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Mm-hmm yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
But it was.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
I'm glad we had already thought through that and
had already built out theprocess before we like decided
to make this the change.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
You know it really helped us that we were prepared
for that moment, how do you dealwith not getting pulled in
directions that you might notwant to go but could be the next
shiny object or the nextrevenue that you could take on?
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Because I remember finally being able to say no
took a while, it took a longtime.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Yeah, I mean almost immediately when I made that
decision, we were able to startsaying no, and I mean we still
get asked today do you doWalmart, do you do Shopify?
Do you do all these otherthings where it's like, yes, we
very easily.
Could you know whether it's usdoing it internally or we have
very strategic partners thatcould do it?
We could outsource it, but it'snot our bread and butter and
(06:03):
it's not how we market ourselves, and I've noticed we've become
so, so good at staying in ourlane and staying in our zone of
genius.
It's allowed us to becomeexperts, and so anytime that we
stray away from that, theexperience for the client
declines.
Right, like we don't have aprocess built out for it.
It's not our zone of genius.
We're kind of, we're trying tohelp them, but it's not our our
zone of genius.
We're we're kind of, we'retrying to help them, but it's
(06:25):
not where we, where we havebuilt our process to be.
So, in that sense, we mostlysay no to everything, um, unless
it's within our sweet spot oflistings.
What we used to say no to withinlistings, though, has changed,
so we used to only work withbrands that have, let say, less
than 50 SKUs, even less than 20SKUs.
It was very niche, mostly CPG,but because of AI we've been
(06:49):
able to kind of scale that quitea bit.
Now we can work with brandsthat have hundreds or thousands
of SKUs.
We used to not offer retainer.
Now we do offer retainer forthose larger brands that have,
let's say, three, five, 10brands under their umbrella and
they want us to be consistentlyoptimizing all of their SKUs
every month.
That's something that we offerby invitation only.
(07:09):
So I think those are the kindsof things that we're more
interested in saying yes to aswe grow.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
Got it, so it's more within the actual category
itself.
You can expand or contractbased off of yeah, that makes
sense.
It's kind of like how, when westarted to do direct mail, it
was all under the post-purchasecustomer retention and messaging
umbrella, and so there's email,there's SMS as a channel and
(07:38):
direct mail is another channelwithin there, but we weren't
touching direct mail as anacquisition channel or anything.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Everything was under that retention umbrella.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
So that's at least how I rationalized us starting
to offer them as a service.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Yeah, yeah.
I mean I've been searching fora back-end offer for a while
because so many of our clientsthey work with us and they say,
okay, what else do you have?
How do we keep working with youguys?
And for the most part we'rekind of like a one and done.
For these brands that have likeless than 20 SKUs, we optimize
their whole portfolio, we'redone in a few months and they
(08:12):
really enjoy the experience andthey look at us as a really
powerful marketing element andthey want to keep working with
us creatively.
But we just don't have thatback end offer.
So where it does make sense forus is those umbrella companies
that have larger sets of brands,larger sets of SKUs, and so for
(08:33):
them.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
We can work with them longer, and I think part of it
is just like pushing back on theclient and explaining to them.
You know, part of the reasonwhy we're actually so good is
because we're not doing what itis that you're asking us to do
now and so let's keep therelationship this way versus.
You know, I definitely haverelationships early on where we
had a very strong, uh sort ofrapport with the client and then
(08:56):
we try to expand into otherareas and then it didn't pan out
and so now we're out both ofthe services versus just being
happy with that one yeah, andthey would have had such a good
experience.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
And now they have a bad taste in their mouth, you
know exactly, exactly, yeah yeah, we love to end there too, and
we've had brands that come backto us year after year because
they had a good experience thefirst time.
They let's say they went offand they did a rebranding.
And then they come back to usthe next year and they're like
we got this fresh rebranding,can you roll it out on amazon?
We're like, yes, we got you.
So like that is that's reallyspecial when brands come back to
(09:29):
us year after year and want tokeep working with us because
they realize that, like they,they don't have to teach their,
their branding team or theirother team how to, you know,
scale the creatives on amazon.
They just come to us, we rollit out and it's done, you know
yeah, when it comes to amazon,how has it changed?
Speaker 1 (09:46):
you know the, the areas that you're focused on.
You know since you started toto today, when it comes to those
storefronts and the types ofcreatives that's a great
question.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
So I feel like we've been through a few different
phases of Amazon.
One, more notably, is thatthere were so many sellers that
were on Amazon in the beginningthat it was still very early
days of Amazon.
They had it so easy.
So when they set up theirlistings, they kind of set them
and forget them.
They didn't have to do too much, they were just raking it in,
and they still have thishistorical preference in
(10:22):
Amazon's algorithm.
So they still do quite well,right?
But now those same brands arenoticing that more brands are
entering the market, eating awayat their market share, and
they're coming in with fresh,creatives, better products, all
of these things that are kind ofslowly eating away, and they're
saying like, oh shoot, we gotto upgrade our listings.
And then the second thing thatwe've noticed is Amazon is
(10:44):
giving more and more access todifferent tools.
So one of the biggest shiftsfor us was realizing that split
testing is one of the key thingsthat we need to be doing.
It's not something thatcustomers or clients or brands
come to us asking us to do.
They, quite frankly, don't evenknow that we're doing it most
of the time, and we just know wehave to be doing it because
(11:04):
they're not going to ask for it,they don't want to pay for it.
I don't want to sit therehaving to sell them on why it's
so important.
So what we've started to do isjust say, look, this is our
package that we sell.
It includes this and you don'treally need to know much more
than that.
It's just part of our process.
And when they see the resultsand we explain to them in a Loom
video the types of tests thatwe ran and why we are so certain
(11:27):
that this creative is going toperform better than what they
have, and they see the data forthemselves and they see a little
Loom video from us, they'rejust like, wow, I cannot believe
we've worked with otheragencies that are not doing this
.
And then couple that withAmazon's own internal tool for
split testing and being able touse that for free.
That's been a huge shift inwhat we do, and we actually
(11:49):
offer that as a courtesy ofworking with us.
We don't charge extra for it.
We don't charge a monthlyretainer.
We just say you're working withus, probably one to three
months.
We're going to try to run atleast two to three tests during
that time.
On Amazon.
First we test our creatives offof Amazon using tools like
PickFu.
Then we're going to test it onAmazon to show you if things are
working.
If they're not working, we'renot going to leave you hanging.
(12:10):
We want to know why it's notworking too.
We need to try to troubleshootthis.
So that's the second big phasethat I've seen is shifting into
that mentality of we're goingfrom set and forget mode to now
we need to be actively testingour creatives on Amazon.
And then the third, which we'reentering into right now.
This third phase is this wholeRufus technology that's coming
(12:35):
out that's really going tochange the algorithm of search
on Amazon.
It's going to fundamentallychange how we search on Amazon.
It's going to fundamentallychange how we search on Amazon,
and so that's something we'reinto the early days of.
We're paying attention to everyday at this point to see what's
going on.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
What are?
Speaker 2 (12:51):
the processes that we need to be considering.
What are the things that weneed to be paying attention to,
as Amazon is tweaking this anddeveloping it even further and
that's the next thing that Ithink everybody's paying
attention to so we will bemoving in that direction as well
.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Got it.
Yeah, I think there's so muchthat's going to change just in
every industry with AI and a lotof research capabilities, etc.
And it'll be fascinating.
I mean, even just within Googlealone, for brands who are
trying to invest in SEO andcontent, you are getting
significantly less traffic toyour website because you're
(13:30):
having these search-generatedresults at the top of the page
that are combining informationfrom multiple sources, and so
somebody could just stop theirsearch right there, versus
wanting to click into, you know,the first link, the second link
, the third link, et cetera.
So it'd be interesting to seehow that all pans out.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Absolutely.
I'm actually here for it.
I'm really excited that.
I mean, if you think about theway we search on Amazon right
now, I think it's really behindthe times.
It's really frustrating as aconsumer to find the things that
you're looking for.
You search for something.
You see the same things overand over again.
You change your search samethings.
Maybe it tweaks it a little bit, but it's the same.
(14:07):
It's the top sellers, it's theguys who are paying to be at the
top.
It's the same things over andover again.
And now that Amazon's pullingin our own data and trying to
understand our personalpreferences, I think we're going
to see better, more accurate,curated results for the
individual, as opposed to justeverything for the masses.
I think it's going to help aidin the buying experience for
(14:30):
consumers.
And as we start to think aboutlistings, we also need to be
thinking about that as well,like how are we changing our
content to make sure we, too,are including that information
so that Amazon picks it up andserves it to the right audience?
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Do you think that this will help with more organic
discovery for brands?
And because when I go on Amazon, I see just the ones with
10,000 reviews, five stars andlike that's obviously people
have been there for a while.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
Yeah, that's the hope , although, in all fairness,
it's organic has been decliningand declining and declining on
Amazon.
It's pay to play.
That being said, there'sthere's definitely a myth that
every everyone likes to say that, like Amazon is only pay to
play, you should only be onAmazon if you're advertising.
We've helped so many brandsthat didn't have money for
(15:19):
advertising yet get up andrunning and get started and they
went to launch on Amazon andthey had just like an awful
start, like they just weren'tgetting any sales and they
didn't know what they did wrong.
It was just a.
They just set up their listingwrong completely.
That's really what washappening.
(15:41):
But when we went in and updatedrefresh the SEO copy, refresh
the creatives like within 48hours they were seeing sales
through the roof because theywere in a hot niche that was
selling really well right afterCOVID.
There's no reason why theyshouldn't have been getting
sales because there wasn't eventhat many products in their
category selling what they wereselling at the quality.
They were selling it with thepackaging that they had, and so
(16:01):
it was just getting in there andfixing things, you know, and
doing it right and elevatingtheir creatives and making sure
that all the SEO keywords werewhere they needed to be, not
just copy pasting things fromShopify, you know.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
Yeah no.
So they sort of got.
They lucked into their initialsuccess and then they had to
refine and tailor the strategyonce the COVID boom was on its
tail ends.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
And I think there's two ways of selling on Amazon,
right?
Or there's two ways to thinkabout it from an entrepreneurial
perspective.
There's I'm going to go with,maybe, vc capital, or I'm going
to you know, we have a hugebudget we're just going to blast
ads and get to the top andstart selling and then we'll
kind of refine it over time, andyou have to have some room in
(16:48):
your timeline to be able to dothat.
Right, you have to have somebudget and you have to be able
to do that.
Then there's another set ofentrepreneurs that they're in a
different stage of their growth.
They're hustling, they're doingthe things that they can do.
They know they need to be onAmazon because people keep
asking them are you on Amazon?
Are you on Amazon?
Are you on Amazon?
Because 60% of that onlinebuying behavior is buying on
Amazon.
(17:08):
So they know they need to bethere and if they were just
there, they would capture someorganic sales.
Still, Even though they're notpushing to the top, spending
tons of money on ads, they aregoing to capture some sales on
Amazon and it can be viable forthem.
So I'm definitely not one ofthose people that's in the camp
of like you should only be onAmazon if you're going to just
have money to go through theroof.
(17:29):
That's just not everybody'sreality.
There's so many amazingproducts in this world that
absolutely should be selling onAmazon that don't need to go
that route.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Are there products that shouldn't be?
You'd be like no, this doesn'tmake sense.
Or maybe it's less about theproduct and more about the
company itself, or do you thinkreally everybody should be on
Amazon?
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Most products do pretty well on Amazon.
I would say the ones that havethe hardest time are the ones
that there's no demand for, andusually that falls into the
bucket of new inventions, andit's because people just don't
know that it exists, right?
So if people don't know that itexists, they don't know what to
search for.
But if it's similar enough tosomething else, there can be a
way to pull in some of thosekeywords and kind of get in the
(18:14):
right demand channels on Amazon.
It's just when there's nobodysearching for that thing,
because they don't know it evenexists.
It's an education thing.
So that does take money andit's hard.
It's a long path.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Yeah, and then maybe it makes more sense to go the
Shopify route because if you'rehaving to do the education and
you know getting in front ofcustomers who aren't looking for
you to begin with, then youknow maybe that's a path.
I have been seeing though moreand more companies depending on
the product type, especiallylike a CPG you know hard to ship
(18:51):
goods with a low cost per unitthat they don't even have a
Shopify storefront anymore.
They will just have an Amazonstorefront.
Like I get my poppy in the mailevery month but it's coming
from Amazon, I can't even buy it.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Yeah, yeah.
There's a lot of brands thatare going Amazon first, cause
there's there's more and moreexamples popping up as as
successful case studies ofAmazon first, and I think Amazon
sees that and they're trying topromote that.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Yeah, it was like the blessing and the curse of FBA,
because I've heard horrorstories about FBA, especially
with brands like the holidayseason's coming up and then all
of a sudden you can't get anysales because they did something
with the inventory or whateverit may be, and it's a black,
it's a black box and you're sortof screwed.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Yeah, you should never have all your eggs in one
basket.
I'm definitely a fan of havingyour Shopify and your Amazon
channels up and both running atthe same time, although FBA, I
will say is is one of thosefirst big leaps that I think
entrepreneurs could and shouldmake, because they start to
realize what their time is worthwhen they start sending their
(19:57):
products to a fulfillment centerversus trying to ship from home
.
I think that's something thateveryone should make the leap
for as soon as possible.
You know, and once you do that,you realize oh my gosh man, I
should be spending all my timeon marketing and strategy and
these other areas of my business, not sitting at home putting
things in a box to ship tocustomers.
You know, yeah that's fair.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
Yeah, that is a big leap.
Whether it's amazon or if it's3pl, you know, sending your,
your product elsewhere andhaving somebody else be
responsible for that delivery isdefinitely like a a big.
What do you think of Amazon'slike social commerce initiatives
and like Amazon Live and someof these things?
Do you think it's more, youknow, gimmicky and not
(20:43):
necessarily you know somethingof the level of like a TikTok
shop which blew up and has had alot of successful stories.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
We are.
I think Amazon is not there yet.
On that, I think TikTok did areally great job of showing
Amazon what's possible and I'mhoping it goes in that direction
.
I know that Amazon behind thescenes is working to make that
experience better, to make videobetter both on product page and
on storefront, but it's notthere yet.
(21:12):
But they are actively testingand building that, so I think it
will get better over time forsure.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Got it.
Yeah, it also feels a littlebit cultural as well, too.
Doesn't seem like live shopping, and some of those things have
gotten as much adoption in theUS as they have internationally.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Yeah, it's interesting.
I think that we've becomeprimed for more of the
influencer content.
We're almost expected at thispoint and look for it.
I personally look for it.
I'm like I just need aninfluencer to show me the one,
two, threes of this to see if Iwant to buy it.
I'm just like I'm here for it.
Show me why I should be buyingthis.
I'm like, okay, cool, youconvinced me.
Like I want that Um, but it'snot something that is um in your
(21:55):
face yet.
On Amazon, I think that in thefuture it will be um, especially
if, if there's more data comingout of how effective it is on
DTC sites, I think that Amazonwill push in that direction.
Um, right now, the only placesreally, where you see videos,
like in the carousel of theproduct images at the top, and
you have to kind of like fishfor them it's not the first
thing you see or if you havepremium a plus content, which
(22:17):
most brands should have accessto, premium a plus content at
this time if they're selling onseller central, then they have
the ability to do a full scalevideo within their a plus
content, which kind of likegives you that landing page
takeover effect on Amazon, whichis very similar.
I mean, we designed it verysimilar to a DTC landing page.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
So if you, if you do that strategy, you should be
able to increase your conversionrate tremendously when it so,
if, if, to step back a littlebit, if you're a brand, you're,
you're just getting started,obviously they should work with
you, but let's say they want to.
You know, give it their own,their own world, or a good old
(22:59):
college try, or the expressionis what would be like three
things that they need to keep inmind, or tips or tricks that
you would, you know, givesomebody who is just starting
out and wants to give it a crackfor themselves, getting started
with yeah, so I break it downinto three steps.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
I have videos of this on YouTube and on my website at
mindfulgoodsco, but it's threesteps and it's it's so simple.
It really is like just goingback to basics and and really
just thinking through thesethree steps.
Um, if we think about-consumermarketing, there's a funnel,
right?
It's the same thing on Amazon.
So if we broke down what thatfunnel would look like, it's
(23:35):
these three steps.
The first is getting foundthrough your SEO.
The second is making sure thatyour main image, the product on
white image that shows up in thesearch results, is click-worthy
and makes people want to clickon your image instead of
everyone else's.
And then the third step is,once they're inside the listing
so they've already found you inthe search results, they've
clicked on your image because itlooks amazing and they're
(23:56):
inside your listing.
Every single image, top tobottom, needs to be visually
appealing and selling.
It needs.
Every image has to have afunction.
And so if you just do thosethree steps, you know, do your
SEO great in your listing andget found, have an amazing main
image, split test those mainimages so that you can see how
you're going to stand out abovethe competition in the search
results and know that that'sworking.
(24:18):
And then, once you're in thereand there's traffic coming in,
get them to convert, and getthem to convert with the things
that you know about yourcustomers.
You know they need to knowthese top three to five things.
And if you just say thosethings as quickly as possible in
those images and make it veryclear, without overwhelming them
, without too much text, answerthe questions that are in their
(24:39):
head, get them to check thoseboxes, then you're going to see
the conversions.
It's as simple as that.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
Well, if I ever decide to start my own brand
which I never will, by the way Ithink brand owners are crazy.
It's a very difficult thing todo.
There's so many differentcomponents that go into it.
I always thought my businesswas so much easier than the
people I was actually workingwith who had to deal with
sourcing and logistics andcustomer success, and there's
(25:08):
just so many different thingsgoing on, but if I do, I'll be
watching those YouTube videosand logistics and customer
success, and there's just somany different things going on.
But if I do, I'll be watchingthose YouTube videos, but I'll
make sure to include them in theshow notes too, for anybody who
wants to check it out and getin contact with you.
But thank you so much forcoming on and sharing your
insights, but before we hop, canyou let people know where they
can connect with you online?
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Yeah, I'm most active on LinkedIn these days, so you
can find me just by searchingDaniela Bolesman.
Or you can check out ourwebsite at mindfulgoodsco, and
on there we also have what wecall like a mini audit, where
you submit your link to us andwe can walk you through those
three steps on your listing andgive you a hit list of all the
things that we would tackle ifwe were working with you.
(25:51):
And that way you can take thatlist, take that video and give
it to your designer and havethem or your team and have them
execute on that, or you candecide to work with us if you
want.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Awesome.
Well, again, thank you forcoming on for everybody
listening, as always.
This is Brandon Amoroso.
You can find me atBrandonAmorosocom or Scalistai.
Thank you for listening and
Hey everyone, thanks for tuning in to D2Z, a podcast
about using the Gen Z mindset togrow your business.
I'm a Gen Z entrepreneur, aformer founder of Electric and
now the co-founder of Scaless,and today I'm talking with
Danielle Bolesman, who's the CEOand founder of Mindful Goods,
which is a go-to one-stop shopfor high-quality Amazon product
pages and storefronts fore-commerce brands.
(00:21):
Thanks for coming on the show.
Thanks for having me, pleasureto be here.
So, before we dive into things,can you give everybody just a
quick background on yourself andhow you got into the exciting
world of Amazon?
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Sure.
So my background is actuallymore on the marketing and tech
side and after exiting my laststartup, I was very interested
in getting into the e-com spaceand was trying to decide if I
wanted to go more of the D2Croute or the Amazon route and
ultimately ended up going downthe Amazon route and, as you
know, that is its own beast initself.
(00:56):
So once I did that, I startedoff actually this agency as a
full service Amazon agency,actually this agency as a full
service Amazon agency.
After a couple years of pullingmy hair out, I realized that we
needed to niche down and reallyspecialize in one piece of the
puzzle which became our zone ofgenius, and that is the SEO and
creative optimization to helpbrands convert better on Amazon.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
What was the process like for you to sort of come
upon that realization and thendecide you know, this is what it
is that we're going to hone inon within the Amazon ecosystem?
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Yeah, the process for me because I have a marketing
background was I was realizingwe were creating unique
strategies for every singleclient.
Every client, every product isin kind of a different category.
There's different budgets,there's different stages that
they're at, and we realize thatnot every brand should be doing
everything at once.
(01:51):
There's different things thatthey have bandwidth for, there's
things that they have budgetfor and there's things that they
don't, and so that becomes areally hard thing to do at scale
and I realized we were justcapping ourselves at the number
of clients we could bring on andstressing ourselves out.
To be honest, we were doing allthe things and I can't say we
were doing anything.
Well, our clients loved usbecause we were very hands-on,
(02:14):
but that can only take you sofar.
So in that realization, Istarted really just figuring out
what are all the things thatwe've taken on, because we were
a yes team.
We would say yes to everything.
They wanted a landing page?
We would build a landing page.
They needed help on theirShopify?
We would help with the Shopify.
They needed help with, you know, running ads we would run ads.
(02:35):
Needed help prep and ship.
We would say, yes, we'll dothat.
Need a chat bot We'll buildthat were just doing all the
things and that really stretchedour bandwidth and once I
realized that we know how to doall of these things.
It doesn't mean that everyclient needs all these things or
we should be doing all thesethings, but what is the common
thing that every brand needs andthey need to be doing well on
(02:56):
Amazon and within that, what isthe piece of the pie that
actually brings our team joythat we could do day in and day
out for the next 10 years andstill be satisfied and fulfilled
and happy.
So it was just as much like apersonal introspection as it was
a skill evaluation, a teamevaluation, a strategy
evaluation, all of that.
(03:17):
And initially I didn't offerthat piece of it publicly.
I started offering it to ourretainer clients and then
actually clients that came to usand they couldn't afford our
retainers, but I knew that theywere a good fit for that
specific offer.
I would say you know what?
You don't have the budget forour retainer.
(03:39):
I get that, but one of thethings that you absolutely need
to do is make sure that yourlistings are top-notch and
converting before you go andspend all this money on ads.
If you want, we can help youwith just that one piece at this
one set price, no retainerobligation.
So we started kind of thetraining wheels of doing that
and building the process behindthat right when we're about six
(04:01):
months into that before COVIDhit.
We were about six months intothat before COVID hit and when
COVID hit, all of our retainerclients wanted out of their
contracts because everyoneneeded to stay cash liquid.
Everyone was changing theirstrategy, scared about their
money, scared about everything,and I completely understood
where everybody was at.
So I basically just said, youknow what I get it?
Totally fine, I let anybody whowanted out of their contract
(04:22):
out of their contract.
And I realized, you know,totally fine, I let anybody who
wanted out of their contract outof their contract.
And I realized we need to justflip our model at this time and
we went from offering retaineron our website to turning that
off and just straight offeringlisting optimization services,
just flat rate.
And so all of those tens ofthousands, even hundreds of
thousands of brands that hadtheir retail doors close on them
(04:43):
had to be selling on Amazonalmost immediately, and so we
were, within 30 days, justflooded with orders that ended
up being, you know, 3x what ourretainer clients were paying us.
So after that moment we justnever went back, you know.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
That definitely helps with the decision-making
process.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Mm-hmm yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
But it was.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
I'm glad we had already thought through that and
had already built out theprocess before we like decided
to make this the change.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
You know it really helped us that we were prepared
for that moment, how do you dealwith not getting pulled in
directions that you might notwant to go but could be the next
shiny object or the nextrevenue that you could take on?
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Because I remember finally being able to say no
took a while, it took a longtime.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Yeah, I mean almost immediately when I made that
decision, we were able to startsaying no, and I mean we still
get asked today do you doWalmart, do you do Shopify?
Do you do all these otherthings where it's like, yes, we
very easily.
Could you know whether it's usdoing it internally or we have
very strategic partners thatcould do it?
We could outsource it, but it'snot our bread and butter and
(06:03):
it's not how we market ourselves, and I've noticed we've become
so, so good at staying in ourlane and staying in our zone of
genius.
It's allowed us to becomeexperts, and so anytime that we
stray away from that, theexperience for the client
declines.
Right, like we don't have aprocess built out for it.
It's not our zone of genius.
We're kind of, we're trying tohelp them, but it's not our our
zone of genius.
We're we're kind of, we'retrying to help them, but it's
(06:25):
not where we, where we havebuilt our process to be.
So, in that sense, we mostlysay no to everything, um, unless
it's within our sweet spot oflistings.
What we used to say no to withinlistings, though, has changed,
so we used to only work withbrands that have, let say, less
than 50 SKUs, even less than 20SKUs.
It was very niche, mostly CPG,but because of AI we've been
(06:49):
able to kind of scale that quitea bit.
Now we can work with brandsthat have hundreds or thousands
of SKUs.
We used to not offer retainer.
Now we do offer retainer forthose larger brands that have,
let's say, three, five, 10brands under their umbrella and
they want us to be consistentlyoptimizing all of their SKUs
every month.
That's something that we offerby invitation only.
(07:09):
So I think those are the kindsof things that we're more
interested in saying yes to aswe grow.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
Got it, so it's more within the actual category
itself.
You can expand or contractbased off of yeah, that makes
sense.
It's kind of like how, when westarted to do direct mail, it
was all under the post-purchasecustomer retention and messaging
umbrella, and so there's email,there's SMS as a channel and
(07:38):
direct mail is another channelwithin there, but we weren't
touching direct mail as anacquisition channel or anything.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Everything was under that retention umbrella.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
So that's at least how I rationalized us starting
to offer them as a service.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Yeah, yeah.
I mean I've been searching fora back-end offer for a while
because so many of our clientsthey work with us and they say,
okay, what else do you have?
How do we keep working with youguys?
And for the most part we'rekind of like a one and done.
For these brands that have likeless than 20 SKUs, we optimize
their whole portfolio, we'redone in a few months and they
(08:12):
really enjoy the experience andthey look at us as a really
powerful marketing element andthey want to keep working with
us creatively.
But we just don't have thatback end offer.
So where it does make sense forus is those umbrella companies
that have larger sets of brands,larger sets of SKUs, and so for
(08:33):
them.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
We can work with them longer, and I think part of it
is just like pushing back on theclient and explaining to them.
You know, part of the reasonwhy we're actually so good is
because we're not doing what itis that you're asking us to do
now and so let's keep therelationship this way versus.
You know, I definitely haverelationships early on where we
had a very strong, uh sort ofrapport with the client and then
(08:56):
we try to expand into otherareas and then it didn't pan out
and so now we're out both ofthe services versus just being
happy with that one yeah, andthey would have had such a good
experience.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
And now they have a bad taste in their mouth, you
know exactly, exactly, yeah yeah, we love to end there too, and
we've had brands that come backto us year after year because
they had a good experience thefirst time.
They let's say they went offand they did a rebranding.
And then they come back to usthe next year and they're like
we got this fresh rebranding,can you roll it out on amazon?
We're like, yes, we got you.
So like that is that's reallyspecial when brands come back to
(09:29):
us year after year and want tokeep working with us because
they realize that, like they,they don't have to teach their,
their branding team or theirother team how to, you know,
scale the creatives on amazon.
They just come to us, we rollit out and it's done, you know
yeah, when it comes to amazon,how has it changed?
Speaker 1 (09:46):
you know the, the areas that you're focused on.
You know since you started toto today, when it comes to those
storefronts and the types ofcreatives that's a great
question.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
So I feel like we've been through a few different
phases of Amazon.
One, more notably, is thatthere were so many sellers that
were on Amazon in the beginningthat it was still very early
days of Amazon.
They had it so easy.
So when they set up theirlistings, they kind of set them
and forget them.
They didn't have to do too much, they were just raking it in,
and they still have thishistorical preference in
(10:22):
Amazon's algorithm.
So they still do quite well,right?
But now those same brands arenoticing that more brands are
entering the market, eating awayat their market share, and
they're coming in with fresh,creatives, better products, all
of these things that are kind ofslowly eating away, and they're
saying like, oh shoot, we gotto upgrade our listings.
And then the second thing thatwe've noticed is Amazon is
(10:44):
giving more and more access todifferent tools.
So one of the biggest shiftsfor us was realizing that split
testing is one of the key thingsthat we need to be doing.
It's not something thatcustomers or clients or brands
come to us asking us to do.
They, quite frankly, don't evenknow that we're doing it most
of the time, and we just know wehave to be doing it because
(11:04):
they're not going to ask for it,they don't want to pay for it.
I don't want to sit therehaving to sell them on why it's
so important.
So what we've started to do isjust say, look, this is our
package that we sell.
It includes this and you don'treally need to know much more
than that.
It's just part of our process.
And when they see the resultsand we explain to them in a Loom
video the types of tests thatwe ran and why we are so certain
(11:27):
that this creative is going toperform better than what they
have, and they see the data forthemselves and they see a little
Loom video from us, they'rejust like, wow, I cannot believe
we've worked with otheragencies that are not doing this
.
And then couple that withAmazon's own internal tool for
split testing and being able touse that for free.
That's been a huge shift inwhat we do, and we actually
(11:49):
offer that as a courtesy ofworking with us.
We don't charge extra for it.
We don't charge a monthlyretainer.
We just say you're working withus, probably one to three
months.
We're going to try to run atleast two to three tests during
that time.
On Amazon.
First we test our creatives offof Amazon using tools like
PickFu.
Then we're going to test it onAmazon to show you if things are
working.
If they're not working, we'renot going to leave you hanging.
(12:10):
We want to know why it's notworking too.
We need to try to troubleshootthis.
So that's the second big phasethat I've seen is shifting into
that mentality of we're goingfrom set and forget mode to now
we need to be actively testingour creatives on Amazon.
And then the third, which we'reentering into right now.
This third phase is this wholeRufus technology that's coming
(12:35):
out that's really going tochange the algorithm of search
on Amazon.
It's going to fundamentallychange how we search on Amazon.
It's going to fundamentallychange how we search on Amazon,
and so that's something we'reinto the early days of.
We're paying attention to everyday at this point to see what's
going on.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
What are?
Speaker 2 (12:51):
the processes that we need to be considering.
What are the things that weneed to be paying attention to,
as Amazon is tweaking this anddeveloping it even further and
that's the next thing that Ithink everybody's paying
attention to so we will bemoving in that direction as well
.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Got it.
Yeah, I think there's so muchthat's going to change just in
every industry with AI and a lotof research capabilities, etc.
And it'll be fascinating.
I mean, even just within Googlealone, for brands who are
trying to invest in SEO andcontent, you are getting
significantly less traffic toyour website because you're
(13:30):
having these search-generatedresults at the top of the page
that are combining informationfrom multiple sources, and so
somebody could just stop theirsearch right there, versus
wanting to click into, you know,the first link, the second link
, the third link, et cetera.
So it'd be interesting to seehow that all pans out.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Absolutely.
I'm actually here for it.
I'm really excited that.
I mean, if you think about theway we search on Amazon right
now, I think it's really behindthe times.
It's really frustrating as aconsumer to find the things that
you're looking for.
You search for something.
You see the same things overand over again.
You change your search samethings.
Maybe it tweaks it a little bit, but it's the same.
(14:07):
It's the top sellers, it's theguys who are paying to be at the
top.
It's the same things over andover again.
And now that Amazon's pullingin our own data and trying to
understand our personalpreferences, I think we're going
to see better, more accurate,curated results for the
individual, as opposed to justeverything for the masses.
I think it's going to help aidin the buying experience for
(14:30):
consumers.
And as we start to think aboutlistings, we also need to be
thinking about that as well,like how are we changing our
content to make sure we, too,are including that information
so that Amazon picks it up andserves it to the right audience?
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Do you think that this will help with more organic
discovery for brands?
And because when I go on Amazon, I see just the ones with
10,000 reviews, five stars andlike that's obviously people
have been there for a while.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
Yeah, that's the hope , although, in all fairness,
it's organic has been decliningand declining and declining on
Amazon.
It's pay to play.
That being said, there'sthere's definitely a myth that
every everyone likes to say that, like Amazon is only pay to
play, you should only be onAmazon if you're advertising.
We've helped so many brandsthat didn't have money for
(15:19):
advertising yet get up andrunning and get started and they
went to launch on Amazon andthey had just like an awful
start, like they just weren'tgetting any sales and they
didn't know what they did wrong.
It was just a.
They just set up their listingwrong completely.
That's really what washappening.
(15:41):
But when we went in and updatedrefresh the SEO copy, refresh
the creatives like within 48hours they were seeing sales
through the roof because theywere in a hot niche that was
selling really well right afterCOVID.
There's no reason why theyshouldn't have been getting
sales because there wasn't eventhat many products in their
category selling what they wereselling at the quality.
They were selling it with thepackaging that they had, and so
(16:01):
it was just getting in there andfixing things, you know, and
doing it right and elevatingtheir creatives and making sure
that all the SEO keywords werewhere they needed to be, not
just copy pasting things fromShopify, you know.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
Yeah no.
So they sort of got.
They lucked into their initialsuccess and then they had to
refine and tailor the strategyonce the COVID boom was on its
tail ends.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
And I think there's two ways of selling on Amazon,
right?
Or there's two ways to thinkabout it from an entrepreneurial
perspective.
There's I'm going to go with,maybe, vc capital, or I'm going
to you know, we have a hugebudget we're just going to blast
ads and get to the top andstart selling and then we'll
kind of refine it over time, andyou have to have some room in
(16:48):
your timeline to be able to dothat.
Right, you have to have somebudget and you have to be able
to do that.
Then there's another set ofentrepreneurs that they're in a
different stage of their growth.
They're hustling, they're doingthe things that they can do.
They know they need to be onAmazon because people keep
asking them are you on Amazon?
Are you on Amazon?
Are you on Amazon?
Because 60% of that onlinebuying behavior is buying on
Amazon.
(17:08):
So they know they need to bethere and if they were just
there, they would capture someorganic sales.
Still, Even though they're notpushing to the top, spending
tons of money on ads, they aregoing to capture some sales on
Amazon and it can be viable forthem.
So I'm definitely not one ofthose people that's in the camp
of like you should only be onAmazon if you're going to just
have money to go through theroof.
(17:29):
That's just not everybody'sreality.
There's so many amazingproducts in this world that
absolutely should be selling onAmazon that don't need to go
that route.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Are there products that shouldn't be?
You'd be like no, this doesn'tmake sense.
Or maybe it's less about theproduct and more about the
company itself, or do you thinkreally everybody should be on
Amazon?
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Most products do pretty well on Amazon.
I would say the ones that havethe hardest time are the ones
that there's no demand for, andusually that falls into the
bucket of new inventions, andit's because people just don't
know that it exists, right?
So if people don't know that itexists, they don't know what to
search for.
But if it's similar enough tosomething else, there can be a
way to pull in some of thosekeywords and kind of get in the
(18:14):
right demand channels on Amazon.
It's just when there's nobodysearching for that thing,
because they don't know it evenexists.
It's an education thing.
So that does take money andit's hard.
It's a long path.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Yeah, and then maybe it makes more sense to go the
Shopify route because if you'rehaving to do the education and
you know getting in front ofcustomers who aren't looking for
you to begin with, then youknow maybe that's a path.
I have been seeing though moreand more companies depending on
the product type, especiallylike a CPG you know hard to ship
(18:51):
goods with a low cost per unitthat they don't even have a
Shopify storefront anymore.
They will just have an Amazonstorefront.
Like I get my poppy in the mailevery month but it's coming
from Amazon, I can't even buy it.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Yeah, yeah.
There's a lot of brands thatare going Amazon first, cause
there's there's more and moreexamples popping up as as
successful case studies ofAmazon first, and I think Amazon
sees that and they're trying topromote that.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Yeah, it was like the blessing and the curse of FBA,
because I've heard horrorstories about FBA, especially
with brands like the holidayseason's coming up and then all
of a sudden you can't get anysales because they did something
with the inventory or whateverit may be, and it's a black,
it's a black box and you're sortof screwed.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Yeah, you should never have all your eggs in one
basket.
I'm definitely a fan of havingyour Shopify and your Amazon
channels up and both running atthe same time, although FBA, I
will say is is one of thosefirst big leaps that I think
entrepreneurs could and shouldmake, because they start to
realize what their time is worthwhen they start sending their
(19:57):
products to a fulfillment centerversus trying to ship from home
.
I think that's something thateveryone should make the leap
for as soon as possible.
You know, and once you do that,you realize oh my gosh man, I
should be spending all my timeon marketing and strategy and
these other areas of my business, not sitting at home putting
things in a box to ship tocustomers.
You know, yeah that's fair.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
Yeah, that is a big leap.
Whether it's amazon or if it's3pl, you know, sending your,
your product elsewhere andhaving somebody else be
responsible for that delivery isdefinitely like a a big.
What do you think of Amazon'slike social commerce initiatives
and like Amazon Live and someof these things?
Do you think it's more, youknow, gimmicky and not
(20:43):
necessarily you know somethingof the level of like a TikTok
shop which blew up and has had alot of successful stories.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
We are.
I think Amazon is not there yet.
On that, I think TikTok did areally great job of showing
Amazon what's possible and I'mhoping it goes in that direction
.
I know that Amazon behind thescenes is working to make that
experience better, to make videobetter both on product page and
on storefront, but it's notthere yet.
(21:12):
But they are actively testingand building that, so I think it
will get better over time forsure.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Got it.
Yeah, it also feels a littlebit cultural as well, too.
Doesn't seem like live shopping, and some of those things have
gotten as much adoption in theUS as they have internationally.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Yeah, it's interesting.
I think that we've becomeprimed for more of the
influencer content.
We're almost expected at thispoint and look for it.
I personally look for it.
I'm like I just need aninfluencer to show me the one,
two, threes of this to see if Iwant to buy it.
I'm just like I'm here for it.
Show me why I should be buyingthis.
I'm like, okay, cool, youconvinced me.
Like I want that Um, but it'snot something that is um in your
(21:55):
face yet.
On Amazon, I think that in thefuture it will be um, especially
if, if there's more data comingout of how effective it is on
DTC sites, I think that Amazonwill push in that direction.
Um, right now, the only placesreally, where you see videos,
like in the carousel of theproduct images at the top, and
you have to kind of like fishfor them it's not the first
thing you see or if you havepremium a plus content, which
(22:17):
most brands should have accessto, premium a plus content at
this time if they're selling onseller central, then they have
the ability to do a full scalevideo within their a plus
content, which kind of likegives you that landing page
takeover effect on Amazon, whichis very similar.
I mean, we designed it verysimilar to a DTC landing page.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
So if you, if you do that strategy, you should be
able to increase your conversionrate tremendously when it so,
if, if, to step back a littlebit, if you're a brand, you're,
you're just getting started,obviously they should work with
you, but let's say they want to.
You know, give it their own,their own world, or a good old
(22:59):
college try, or the expressionis what would be like three
things that they need to keep inmind, or tips or tricks that
you would, you know, givesomebody who is just starting
out and wants to give it a crackfor themselves, getting started
with yeah, so I break it downinto three steps.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
I have videos of this on YouTube and on my website at
mindfulgoodsco, but it's threesteps and it's it's so simple.
It really is like just goingback to basics and and really
just thinking through thesethree steps.
Um, if we think about-consumermarketing, there's a funnel,
right?
It's the same thing on Amazon.
So if we broke down what thatfunnel would look like, it's
(23:35):
these three steps.
The first is getting foundthrough your SEO.
The second is making sure thatyour main image, the product on
white image that shows up in thesearch results, is click-worthy
and makes people want to clickon your image instead of
everyone else's.
And then the third step is,once they're inside the listing
so they've already found you inthe search results, they've
clicked on your image because itlooks amazing and they're
(23:56):
inside your listing.
Every single image, top tobottom, needs to be visually
appealing and selling.
It needs.
Every image has to have afunction.
And so if you just do thosethree steps, you know, do your
SEO great in your listing andget found, have an amazing main
image, split test those mainimages so that you can see how
you're going to stand out abovethe competition in the search
results and know that that'sworking.
(24:18):
And then, once you're in thereand there's traffic coming in,
get them to convert, and getthem to convert with the things
that you know about yourcustomers.
You know they need to knowthese top three to five things.
And if you just say thosethings as quickly as possible in
those images and make it veryclear, without overwhelming them
, without too much text, answerthe questions that are in their
(24:39):
head, get them to check thoseboxes, then you're going to see
the conversions.
It's as simple as that.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
Well, if I ever decide to start my own brand
which I never will, by the way Ithink brand owners are crazy.
It's a very difficult thing todo.
There's so many differentcomponents that go into it.
I always thought my businesswas so much easier than the
people I was actually workingwith who had to deal with
sourcing and logistics andcustomer success, and there's
(25:08):
just so many different thingsgoing on, but if I do, I'll be
watching those YouTube videosand logistics and customer
success, and there's just somany different things going on.
But if I do, I'll be watchingthose YouTube videos, but I'll
make sure to include them in theshow notes too, for anybody who
wants to check it out and getin contact with you.
But thank you so much forcoming on and sharing your
insights, but before we hop, canyou let people know where they
can connect with you online?
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Yeah, I'm most active on LinkedIn these days, so you
can find me just by searchingDaniela Bolesman.
Or you can check out ourwebsite at mindfulgoodsco, and
on there we also have what wecall like a mini audit, where
you submit your link to us andwe can walk you through those
three steps on your listing andgive you a hit list of all the
things that we would tackle ifwe were working with you.
(25:51):
And that way you can take thatlist, take that video and give
it to your designer and havethem or your team and have them
execute on that, or you candecide to work with us if you
want.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Awesome.
Well, again, thank you forcoming on for everybody
listening, as always.
This is Brandon Amoroso.
You can find me atBrandonAmorosocom or Scalistai.
Thank you for listening and
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