October 13, 2024 • 21 mins
A year ago, Australia voted ‘No’ to the Voice to Parliament.The referendum asked whether Australia wanted to add an advisory body to the Constitution, made up of First Nations people who would have a say on laws and policies that would affect their lives. It was the first of three stages spelled out in the Uluru Statement from the Heart, that called for Voice, Treaty, and Truth.
TDA speaks to Professor Megan Davis, a Cobble Cobble woman who was the first person to read aloud the Uluru Statement from the Heart in 2017. She shares her reflections on the referendum, what’s happened in the year since, and what she hopes for the future.
Hosts: Harry Sekulich and Sam Koslowski
Producer: Orla Maher
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Already and this is the dailias.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Oh now it makes sense. Good morning and welcome to
the Daily Ours. It's Monday, the fourteenth of October.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
I'm Harry, I'm Sam.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
A year ago, Australia voted no to the Voice to Parliament.
The referendum asked whether Australia wanted to add an advisory
body to the Constitution made up of First Nations people
who would have a say on laws and policies that
would affect their lives. It was the first of three
stages spelled out in the ULARU Statement from the Heart
that called for voice, treaty and truth. Today I spoke
(00:45):
with Professor Meaghan Davis, a Cobblekobble woman, constitutional law expert,
campaigner for the Voice and the first person to read
aloud the ULLARU Statement from the Heart. You'll hear her
reflections on the referendum, what's happened in the year since,
and what she hopes the future. But on Sam, what's
making headlines.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
There's been bipartisan condemnation of a neo Nazi gathering in
the New South Wales town of Kerua, close to the
New South Wales Victoria border. Premiers of both states said
they were investigating the origins of the roughly fifty men
dressed in all black and many covering their faces, who
gathered in front of the town's war memorial and posed
in front of a sign that read white Man Fight Back.
(01:29):
Kerrawa's federal member Susan Lee said the coalition fully supported
quote whatever action is necessary from state and federal law enforcement,
as well as the state and federal labor governments to
quote dismantle this organization. Lee called on the New South
Wales government to follow the Victorian government in banning the
Nazi salute and related symbols, and warns leaders of other
(01:51):
rural communities to watch for signs their towns were being
targeted by the neo Nazi groups.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Health has issued a public health warning amid increasing rates
of gastro enter writers or gastro. In a week, New
South Wales emergency departments received more than two seven hundred
patients experiencing gastro symptoms, with patients under the age of
five particularly impacted. Director here At Glasgow said the spread
of gastro needs to slow down before the school holidays
(02:23):
come to a close. Glasgow has urged patients to keep
their children at home if they display symptoms.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
King Charles has written that quote whether Australia becomes a
republic is a matter for the Australian public to decide,
in a reply to a request for a meeting by
the Australian Republican Movement ahead of his trip to Australia
next week. King Charles and Queen Camilla are set to
attend events in Sydney and Canberra, in only his second
overseas trips since being diagnosed with cancer earlier this year.
(02:54):
The Republican Movement said quote, While we respect the role
the Royals have played in the nation to date, time
for Australia to elect a local to serve as our
head of state, someone who can work for Australia full time.
Australia voted to remain in the British monarchy in a
nineteen ninety nine referendum.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
And Today's good News. Scientists from the University of Melbourne
and University of Cambridge have discovered an environmentally friendly alternative
to glitter. The glitter we commonly used is made up
of microplastics and creates harmful environmental impacts. Research published in
the journal Chemosphere has uncovered a cellulose nanocrystalline glitter. Scientists
(03:36):
collected a variety of soil samples to assess the impacts
of cellulose based glitters and sequence on the Earth. This
non toxic material was found safe for soil and can
be used as a bidegradable alternative to regular glitter.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Harry, really nice to be on the podcast with you
this morning, Gonwail Sam, Yeah, and I can't believe it's
been one year since the Voice to Parliament referendum. We
really did a lot of work in the lead up
to that referendum trying to break down the issues. We
had a five part video explainer, we had a dedicated podcast.
It doesn't feel in some ways like it was that
(04:15):
long ago that we were having this national conversation. I
also remember that night and the feeling of that night
where a decision was reached so quickly on the broadcast
and we almost had this sense that this long count
had been brought short. Can you remind everybody what the
Voice to Parliament was?
Speaker 2 (04:35):
So the voice itself goes back to a call to
action that was set out in the twenty seventeen ULARU
Statement from the Heart. It was signed by nearly two
hundred and fifty First Nations leaders after years of what
was called the Ularu Dialogues, which were regional, local and
community focused talks between First people's across Australia. So the
(04:56):
Voice was meant to be a way of formally recognizing
First Nations people in the Constitution and in practical terms,
it would be an advisory body made up of First
Nations people that would have a say on the laws
and policies that impact their lives. And since it involved
changing the constitution, the whole country had to vote on it,
(05:18):
and a year ago Australia went to the polls. We
all went to the polls and it was defeated. Sixty
percent of the country said no and around forty percent
said yes. And you're right. It only took ninety minutes
after the polls closed for those results to be conclusive.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
What I find really interesting about what we're talking about
today is that referendum happened twelve months ago. The Ularus
Statement is still there, It's still an important document in Australia.
There are still people working on improving the rights conditions
legislation around First Nations Australians. Has there been much change
or movement on the actual Ularu statement since the.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Voice, so the Uluru Statement, and it was a combination
of years of dialogue and the actual statement itself still
stands and First Nations people are actively looking at developing
the Ulurus Statement and having Australians walk with them in
this journey. And the Voice was the first of the
three stages set out by the Ularus Statement from the Heart,
(06:20):
and the next two were truth, telling and treaty. And
on the night that he won the election, Anthony Alberzi
said he was fully committed to implementing the statement from
the heart, so you could interpret that to be that
he was promising all three stages of the Uluru's Statement.
Speaker 4 (06:38):
So that's Voice, truth and treaty right, And we were
doing a referendum just on that first bit, exactly the
very first stage. But after the referendum failed to get up,
he hasn't been so clear on whether he'll go through
the other two stages and he recently said that it
wasn't an option that's currently on the table. And that's
(06:58):
why I wanted to speak to Professor Meghan Davis because
she's a very esteemed constitutional lawyer. She campaigned in favor
of the Voice, and she was actually the first person
to read out the ULARU Statement from the Heart in
twenty seventeen. We spoke about what's been going on since
the referendum and what direction she believes the country is
(07:19):
now going in. Professor Meghan Davis, thank you so much
for joining the Daily Ours.
Speaker 5 (07:24):
Hi, thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
So it's exactly one year since the referendum to start off,
how do you reflect on that period, the lead up
with the campaign and the vote itself.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Oh, look, you know, it's a bit of a blur.
I think for most people who were involved.
Speaker 5 (07:40):
It certainly was for me. I mean, I think in
the lead up.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
To the actual vote and the day there was a
lot of kind of hope and expectation, anticipation. People didn't
really know what to think, and of course the polls
weren't you know, at the end, didn't look positive. You know,
I think most of our people have really been grieving
(08:04):
the result over the past year. I think people were
devastated that night. People were devastated. I just can remember,
you know, within an hour, the overwhelming no and just
the wailing and the sobbing of our particular Ulary Dialogue
campaign room.
Speaker 4 (08:22):
It was.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
It was really devastating and still is to this day.
But on the flip side, something that people used to
say to me in the kind of darkest hours in
the weeks after that we'd all forgotten was that there
was six point two Aussies that voted yes, and that
you know, made a really huge difference actually to everyone
in the team and other mob right across the country
(08:45):
just getting out of bed and getting moving again, that
there was a really cool group of Aussies who stood
with us and understood what we were seeking to do
and accepted the invitation of the Ullary.
Speaker 5 (08:58):
Statement from the Heart.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
I mean, it is a massive loss opportunity, Harry, Like
you know, when you look back on it, and I've
been reading some reflections of lots of other mobs about
the campaign and the day and what it means.
Speaker 5 (09:12):
It was a huge lost opportunity for the nation.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
The idea from the voice, which you've already mentioned, was
the Ulary Statement from the Heart. Now this had three requests,
the first being the voice and then the two other
requests to follow after a successful voice. Now that the
first of those three steps has fallen over, will you
still move forward with the other steps even if the
(09:38):
order has changed.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
And that's a difficult answer to give because that's not
how politics works.
Speaker 5 (09:44):
Right, And the Ulary statement isn't a kind of statement.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
It's not like, hey, he's an ala carte menu and
this one's off the table now, so I have the
next one.
Speaker 5 (09:54):
I mean, so voice.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Doesn't fall away, that doesn't disappear just because of the
No vote last year. Also, the broader framework of the
Allary Statement from the heart stands it was a new
and innovative approach of First Nations peoples not to hand
a petition to the Australian politicians, but to the Australian
(10:16):
people to convince them and persuade them of the exigency
of reform. And so I think it's really difficult to
talk about the Allary Statement when the media is not
taking seriously the role that misinformation played in the campaign.
If you look at the research post the vote, including
Essentral research that has been recently published, the majority of
(10:39):
Australians don't know about the Lary Statement from the heart.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
I'm interested in your reflections on the political debate at
the moment because there's been a lot of questions put
forward to the Prime Minister about whether he intends to
follow through with the Macarata Commission for Truth Telling and Treaty.
What are your reflections on those kinds of discussions.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Well, politics can, but I think the lesson of the
campaign is that you can't get change if you're going
to go old school politics and expect politicians to get
you to a yes. You know, it needs to be
a proper people's movement. And if you don't have a
people's movement, which is what the Ullary statement was talking
to and it asked Australians to walk with them, I
(11:21):
think intuitively, our people at the Rock knew that if
it was just a traditional left versus right adversarial tussle
between the l and P and Labor, it would end
up exactly the way it ended up. So I think
that's an important point on the Prime Minister. You know,
the Ullary dial aguipmen contacted since the referendum, so you know,
(11:42):
we see what everybody else sees in the media. I
think an important issue that has been raised by some journalists,
which is great and a lot of mob is that
the Macarator Commission was an election promise. It went through
the Labor policy convention, it was a part of the platform,
it was costed and so you know that is a
(12:04):
broken promise, or maybe a broken promise subject to what
happens after the election. That will be you know, for
the Australian people to judge.
Speaker 5 (12:12):
But I mean it was a policy in the years since.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
How would you characterize progress on First Nations issues in Australia?
Are there things that you're encouraged by or are there
things you're really concerned about.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
So we started off the year with the Productivity Commission Report,
which is pretty scathing of the way in which closing
the gap is rolling out, the lack of cooperation from
states and territories, but in particular the struggle that our
people are having with the national bureaucracy in delivering on
the things that our people have to deliver on to
(12:47):
close the gap. And so one of the big key
aspects of that Productivity Commission report was the fact that
there's no federal voice, there's no legitimate voice that actually
speaks in an authority way on behalf of communities that's
guiding this work. And so that was really an important report,
(13:07):
a difficult report also to read.
Speaker 5 (13:09):
Only a few months after the No vote.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
But since then we've seen similarly closing the gap, reports
come out showing next.
Speaker 5 (13:18):
To no change.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
You know, things are in a very difficult space. I
don't talk on behalf of all people. I know there's
many mob involved in business and indigenous procurement and other areas.
But the work that I do is aimed at improving
the lives of people who you know, might live in
situations where structurally they need change to make a difference
(13:40):
in their lives. I'm also you're an expert and international
lawyer who's worked on self determination. I helped draft the
Declaration of the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, so a big
part of my work is oriented to how you get
self determination for our people in our communities. I think
the Oillary Statement and the Voice still remain as exit
and relevant today as they were in twenty seventeen.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
There will be an election sometime in the next seven
months for the federal Parliament. What would a change of
government at that level mean for the Ulary Statement.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
A key point, Harry here on this adversary day is
our job post referendum has been to engage with the
six point two That's a massive game changer because those
people not just become advocates, but they walk alongside us.
And that's very different to a reconciliation framework. It's very
different to what's come before. And those six point two
(14:36):
Australians live up in one hundred and fifty one electors
and they all vote, and they've all got family. You know,
we've got work to do to start yearning with Aussi's
voted no and other Aussies. We are taking a different
approach to achieving change, and that is you know, working
with other assies quietly and now talking about what happened
(14:58):
with the referendum, what we were trying to achieve, walking
through the misinformation and all of those conversations that need
to be had. And as I said, the enthusiasm of
the six point two has been so overwhelming. It's really
just been so gratifying and generous, and it's really helped
our people get through a very very difficult year. And
(15:20):
so that's still political work. You know, we are all
political people with agency, all Australian citizens, and so that
work in all of those federal elections will continue and
hopefully in time will lead to lead to some change.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
As a final thought, what is your hope for the
future of First Nations people in Australia.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Look, I mean, I think I've many hopes for our people.
I think for me, I am a constitutional so that's
the way I think. But I think nothing changes, And
I appreciate it's because I've studied constitutions for twenty years.
Speaker 5 (15:58):
But they really make it difference to people's lives.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
And I know that Australians often can't see that, but
they do provide the material conditions for a dignified human life,
and that has happened for most Australians in Australia. A
lot of our structures, our rule of law, flow as
a consequence of that constitution. But there was one group
excluded from that in ninety oh one, and that was
(16:22):
our people. And it was semi corrected in nineteen sixty seven,
but not fully. It allowed the Federal Parliament power to
make laws for people of any race and then they
allowed us to be included in that. But it doesn't
empower our people. And that's what structural change means. It's
providing us with something that allows us to make a
(16:43):
difference to our lives. And the voice, as the option
that went last year, was about compelling the state to
listen to us. So what we said couldn't bind the
parliament because nothing can buy in the parliament. Not even
a treaty will buy into parliament. Nothing can in Australians
legal and political system. But it would have at least
allowed us to table our views about particular things, and
(17:05):
you know, the media being the media would have reported
on that. But at least Australians would start to get
used to the views that we have on things, as
opposed to politicians who seem to talk on our behalf
all the time.
Speaker 5 (17:17):
So my hope is that we still march forward.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Constitutional recognition is still important now. Our people have always
said we don't want symbolic recognition, we don't want tokenistic recognition.
We want recognition that's going to make a difference to
our people's lives. And the research shows Australians agree with that.
So I'm not you know, I think at the end
of the day, intuitively, you know, up until a couple
(17:40):
of months before the referendum, Ozzie's intuitively got what the
voice was about as a kind of pretty fair thing
that if it's a piece of legislation on Aboriginal people,
we should have some input well, not me, but people
chosen by the communities to represent them, and so who
knows what goes forth. But I don't think that constitutional
(18:01):
recognition can be off the table for a country like Australia.
We will find our way back to there because constitutions matter,
and I don't think we talk about that a lot
in this country. I don't think constitutional literacy is particularly
high because we don't do civics very well. But it's important,
and it's important not just for us, it's important for
(18:23):
all Australians, but it is important for our young people
to see themselves recognized by the people, by the nation.
Speaker 5 (18:30):
And so I don't think that.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Stops because of last year's referendum. No one's saying that
to four year terms all the republic.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
And maybe just as a final verification, is it true
that you had a copy, a little copy of the
Constitution when you were a little bit younger and carried
around with you.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
I did have one when I was younger, and I
think the Australian Story like found me a copy of
the one that I actually had as a kid. I
think my little sister sent to Australian Story that I
carried it around like a nerd, but she was making
trouble trying to embarrass me on a national scale.
Speaker 5 (19:08):
But I mean I did. I mean I was sick one.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Day and my mum spent most of her money on
second hand books, and we used to like love secondhand
bookshops and that's where she found a particular book. It
had a copy of the Constitution in it, and I
was I was really mesmerized. I think partly because I
loved Australian politics. We were really poor, you know, we
lived in a Housing Commission home. We were underclass, and
(19:33):
my mum was always like, you know, Australian politics is
what dictates our lives from election to election. And then
I got to University Queensland and studied my first political
theories subject. I hated it. I never took the subject again.
So I think studying it just took the joy out
of it for me.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
But well, we never know, Professor Meghan Davis. There might
be more little kids out there carrying around to Constitution
in the future.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
I hope so, because as I keep saying, all the
all our youth institutions built to change, we can't be
intimidated by it.
Speaker 5 (20:02):
All the Australian people.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
We've got a bit of work to do on politicians.
Speaker 5 (20:06):
But I think it is built to change.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
The drafters wanted it to change with the times, and
I just think as a nation, we've just got to
get better at how we do that.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
Professor Meghan Davis, thank you so much for joining the
Daily Ohs, thank you for having me. Thank you so
much for joining us at the Daily Os. If you
want to read more about the years since the Voice,
we covered it in our weekend newsletter and we'll add
a link to the show notes. Please tell us what
you think in the comments on Spotify. We love hearing
what you have to say. We'll speak to you again
(20:39):
tomorrow and until then, have a great day.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
My name is Lily Madden and I'm a proud Adunda
Bungelung Caalcuttin woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily Os acknowledges
that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the
Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres
Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the
first peoples of these countries, both past and present.
Already and this is the dailias.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Oh now it makes sense. Good morning and welcome to
the Daily Ours. It's Monday, the fourteenth of October.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
I'm Harry, I'm Sam.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
A year ago, Australia voted no to the Voice to Parliament.
The referendum asked whether Australia wanted to add an advisory
body to the Constitution made up of First Nations people
who would have a say on laws and policies that
would affect their lives. It was the first of three
stages spelled out in the ULARU Statement from the Heart
that called for voice, treaty and truth. Today I spoke
(00:45):
with Professor Meaghan Davis, a Cobblekobble woman, constitutional law expert,
campaigner for the Voice and the first person to read
aloud the ULLARU Statement from the Heart. You'll hear her
reflections on the referendum, what's happened in the year since,
and what she hopes the future. But on Sam, what's
making headlines.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
There's been bipartisan condemnation of a neo Nazi gathering in
the New South Wales town of Kerua, close to the
New South Wales Victoria border. Premiers of both states said
they were investigating the origins of the roughly fifty men
dressed in all black and many covering their faces, who
gathered in front of the town's war memorial and posed
in front of a sign that read white Man Fight Back.
(01:29):
Kerrawa's federal member Susan Lee said the coalition fully supported
quote whatever action is necessary from state and federal law enforcement,
as well as the state and federal labor governments to
quote dismantle this organization. Lee called on the New South
Wales government to follow the Victorian government in banning the
Nazi salute and related symbols, and warns leaders of other
(01:51):
rural communities to watch for signs their towns were being
targeted by the neo Nazi groups.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Health has issued a public health warning amid increasing rates
of gastro enter writers or gastro. In a week, New
South Wales emergency departments received more than two seven hundred
patients experiencing gastro symptoms, with patients under the age of
five particularly impacted. Director here At Glasgow said the spread
of gastro needs to slow down before the school holidays
(02:23):
come to a close. Glasgow has urged patients to keep
their children at home if they display symptoms.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
King Charles has written that quote whether Australia becomes a
republic is a matter for the Australian public to decide,
in a reply to a request for a meeting by
the Australian Republican Movement ahead of his trip to Australia
next week. King Charles and Queen Camilla are set to
attend events in Sydney and Canberra, in only his second
overseas trips since being diagnosed with cancer earlier this year.
(02:54):
The Republican Movement said quote, While we respect the role
the Royals have played in the nation to date, time
for Australia to elect a local to serve as our
head of state, someone who can work for Australia full time.
Australia voted to remain in the British monarchy in a
nineteen ninety nine referendum.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
And Today's good News. Scientists from the University of Melbourne
and University of Cambridge have discovered an environmentally friendly alternative
to glitter. The glitter we commonly used is made up
of microplastics and creates harmful environmental impacts. Research published in
the journal Chemosphere has uncovered a cellulose nanocrystalline glitter. Scientists
(03:36):
collected a variety of soil samples to assess the impacts
of cellulose based glitters and sequence on the Earth. This
non toxic material was found safe for soil and can
be used as a bidegradable alternative to regular glitter.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Harry, really nice to be on the podcast with you
this morning, Gonwail Sam, Yeah, and I can't believe it's
been one year since the Voice to Parliament referendum. We
really did a lot of work in the lead up
to that referendum trying to break down the issues. We
had a five part video explainer, we had a dedicated podcast.
It doesn't feel in some ways like it was that
(04:15):
long ago that we were having this national conversation. I
also remember that night and the feeling of that night
where a decision was reached so quickly on the broadcast
and we almost had this sense that this long count
had been brought short. Can you remind everybody what the
Voice to Parliament was?
Speaker 2 (04:35):
So the voice itself goes back to a call to
action that was set out in the twenty seventeen ULARU
Statement from the Heart. It was signed by nearly two
hundred and fifty First Nations leaders after years of what
was called the Ularu Dialogues, which were regional, local and
community focused talks between First people's across Australia. So the
(04:56):
Voice was meant to be a way of formally recognizing
First Nations people in the Constitution and in practical terms,
it would be an advisory body made up of First
Nations people that would have a say on the laws
and policies that impact their lives. And since it involved
changing the constitution, the whole country had to vote on it,
(05:18):
and a year ago Australia went to the polls. We
all went to the polls and it was defeated. Sixty
percent of the country said no and around forty percent
said yes. And you're right. It only took ninety minutes
after the polls closed for those results to be conclusive.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
What I find really interesting about what we're talking about
today is that referendum happened twelve months ago. The Ularus
Statement is still there, It's still an important document in Australia.
There are still people working on improving the rights conditions
legislation around First Nations Australians. Has there been much change
or movement on the actual Ularu statement since the.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Voice, so the Uluru Statement, and it was a combination
of years of dialogue and the actual statement itself still
stands and First Nations people are actively looking at developing
the Ulurus Statement and having Australians walk with them in
this journey. And the Voice was the first of the
three stages set out by the Ularus Statement from the Heart,
(06:20):
and the next two were truth, telling and treaty. And
on the night that he won the election, Anthony Alberzi
said he was fully committed to implementing the statement from
the heart, so you could interpret that to be that
he was promising all three stages of the Uluru's Statement.
Speaker 4 (06:38):
So that's Voice, truth and treaty right, And we were
doing a referendum just on that first bit, exactly the
very first stage. But after the referendum failed to get up,
he hasn't been so clear on whether he'll go through
the other two stages and he recently said that it
wasn't an option that's currently on the table. And that's
(06:58):
why I wanted to speak to Professor Meghan Davis because
she's a very esteemed constitutional lawyer. She campaigned in favor
of the Voice, and she was actually the first person
to read out the ULARU Statement from the Heart in
twenty seventeen. We spoke about what's been going on since
the referendum and what direction she believes the country is
(07:19):
now going in. Professor Meghan Davis, thank you so much
for joining the Daily Ours.
Speaker 5 (07:24):
Hi, thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
So it's exactly one year since the referendum to start off,
how do you reflect on that period, the lead up
with the campaign and the vote itself.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Oh, look, you know, it's a bit of a blur.
I think for most people who were involved.
Speaker 5 (07:40):
It certainly was for me. I mean, I think in
the lead up.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
To the actual vote and the day there was a
lot of kind of hope and expectation, anticipation. People didn't
really know what to think, and of course the polls
weren't you know, at the end, didn't look positive. You know,
I think most of our people have really been grieving
(08:04):
the result over the past year. I think people were
devastated that night. People were devastated. I just can remember,
you know, within an hour, the overwhelming no and just
the wailing and the sobbing of our particular Ulary Dialogue
campaign room.
Speaker 4 (08:22):
It was.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
It was really devastating and still is to this day.
But on the flip side, something that people used to
say to me in the kind of darkest hours in
the weeks after that we'd all forgotten was that there
was six point two Aussies that voted yes, and that
you know, made a really huge difference actually to everyone
in the team and other mob right across the country
(08:45):
just getting out of bed and getting moving again, that
there was a really cool group of Aussies who stood
with us and understood what we were seeking to do
and accepted the invitation of the Ullary.
Speaker 5 (08:58):
Statement from the Heart.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
I mean, it is a massive loss opportunity, Harry, Like
you know, when you look back on it, and I've
been reading some reflections of lots of other mobs about
the campaign and the day and what it means.
Speaker 5 (09:12):
It was a huge lost opportunity for the nation.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
The idea from the voice, which you've already mentioned, was
the Ulary Statement from the Heart. Now this had three requests,
the first being the voice and then the two other
requests to follow after a successful voice. Now that the
first of those three steps has fallen over, will you
still move forward with the other steps even if the
(09:38):
order has changed.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
And that's a difficult answer to give because that's not
how politics works.
Speaker 5 (09:44):
Right, And the Ulary statement isn't a kind of statement.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
It's not like, hey, he's an ala carte menu and
this one's off the table now, so I have the
next one.
Speaker 5 (09:54):
I mean, so voice.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Doesn't fall away, that doesn't disappear just because of the
No vote last year. Also, the broader framework of the
Allary Statement from the heart stands it was a new
and innovative approach of First Nations peoples not to hand
a petition to the Australian politicians, but to the Australian
(10:16):
people to convince them and persuade them of the exigency
of reform. And so I think it's really difficult to
talk about the Allary Statement when the media is not
taking seriously the role that misinformation played in the campaign.
If you look at the research post the vote, including
Essentral research that has been recently published, the majority of
(10:39):
Australians don't know about the Lary Statement from the heart.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
I'm interested in your reflections on the political debate at
the moment because there's been a lot of questions put
forward to the Prime Minister about whether he intends to
follow through with the Macarata Commission for Truth Telling and Treaty.
What are your reflections on those kinds of discussions.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Well, politics can, but I think the lesson of the
campaign is that you can't get change if you're going
to go old school politics and expect politicians to get
you to a yes. You know, it needs to be
a proper people's movement. And if you don't have a
people's movement, which is what the Ullary statement was talking
to and it asked Australians to walk with them, I
(11:21):
think intuitively, our people at the Rock knew that if
it was just a traditional left versus right adversarial tussle
between the l and P and Labor, it would end
up exactly the way it ended up. So I think
that's an important point on the Prime Minister. You know,
the Ullary dial aguipmen contacted since the referendum, so you know,
(11:42):
we see what everybody else sees in the media. I
think an important issue that has been raised by some journalists,
which is great and a lot of mob is that
the Macarator Commission was an election promise. It went through
the Labor policy convention, it was a part of the platform,
it was costed and so you know that is a
(12:04):
broken promise, or maybe a broken promise subject to what
happens after the election. That will be you know, for
the Australian people to judge.
Speaker 5 (12:12):
But I mean it was a policy in the years since.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
How would you characterize progress on First Nations issues in Australia?
Are there things that you're encouraged by or are there
things you're really concerned about.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
So we started off the year with the Productivity Commission Report,
which is pretty scathing of the way in which closing
the gap is rolling out, the lack of cooperation from
states and territories, but in particular the struggle that our
people are having with the national bureaucracy in delivering on
the things that our people have to deliver on to
(12:47):
close the gap. And so one of the big key
aspects of that Productivity Commission report was the fact that
there's no federal voice, there's no legitimate voice that actually
speaks in an authority way on behalf of communities that's
guiding this work. And so that was really an important report,
(13:07):
a difficult report also to read.
Speaker 5 (13:09):
Only a few months after the No vote.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
But since then we've seen similarly closing the gap, reports
come out showing next.
Speaker 5 (13:18):
To no change.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
You know, things are in a very difficult space. I
don't talk on behalf of all people. I know there's
many mob involved in business and indigenous procurement and other areas.
But the work that I do is aimed at improving
the lives of people who you know, might live in
situations where structurally they need change to make a difference
(13:40):
in their lives. I'm also you're an expert and international
lawyer who's worked on self determination. I helped draft the
Declaration of the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, so a big
part of my work is oriented to how you get
self determination for our people in our communities. I think
the Oillary Statement and the Voice still remain as exit
and relevant today as they were in twenty seventeen.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
There will be an election sometime in the next seven
months for the federal Parliament. What would a change of
government at that level mean for the Ulary Statement.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
A key point, Harry here on this adversary day is
our job post referendum has been to engage with the
six point two That's a massive game changer because those
people not just become advocates, but they walk alongside us.
And that's very different to a reconciliation framework. It's very
different to what's come before. And those six point two
(14:36):
Australians live up in one hundred and fifty one electors
and they all vote, and they've all got family. You know,
we've got work to do to start yearning with Aussi's
voted no and other Aussies. We are taking a different
approach to achieving change, and that is you know, working
with other assies quietly and now talking about what happened
(14:58):
with the referendum, what we were trying to achieve, walking
through the misinformation and all of those conversations that need
to be had. And as I said, the enthusiasm of
the six point two has been so overwhelming. It's really
just been so gratifying and generous, and it's really helped
our people get through a very very difficult year. And
(15:20):
so that's still political work. You know, we are all
political people with agency, all Australian citizens, and so that
work in all of those federal elections will continue and
hopefully in time will lead to lead to some change.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
As a final thought, what is your hope for the
future of First Nations people in Australia.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Look, I mean, I think I've many hopes for our people.
I think for me, I am a constitutional so that's
the way I think. But I think nothing changes, And
I appreciate it's because I've studied constitutions for twenty years.
Speaker 5 (15:58):
But they really make it difference to people's lives.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
And I know that Australians often can't see that, but
they do provide the material conditions for a dignified human life,
and that has happened for most Australians in Australia. A
lot of our structures, our rule of law, flow as
a consequence of that constitution. But there was one group
excluded from that in ninety oh one, and that was
(16:22):
our people. And it was semi corrected in nineteen sixty seven,
but not fully. It allowed the Federal Parliament power to
make laws for people of any race and then they
allowed us to be included in that. But it doesn't
empower our people. And that's what structural change means. It's
providing us with something that allows us to make a
(16:43):
difference to our lives. And the voice, as the option
that went last year, was about compelling the state to
listen to us. So what we said couldn't bind the
parliament because nothing can buy in the parliament. Not even
a treaty will buy into parliament. Nothing can in Australians
legal and political system. But it would have at least
allowed us to table our views about particular things, and
(17:05):
you know, the media being the media would have reported
on that. But at least Australians would start to get
used to the views that we have on things, as
opposed to politicians who seem to talk on our behalf
all the time.
Speaker 5 (17:17):
So my hope is that we still march forward.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Constitutional recognition is still important now. Our people have always
said we don't want symbolic recognition, we don't want tokenistic recognition.
We want recognition that's going to make a difference to
our people's lives. And the research shows Australians agree with that.
So I'm not you know, I think at the end
of the day, intuitively, you know, up until a couple
(17:40):
of months before the referendum, Ozzie's intuitively got what the
voice was about as a kind of pretty fair thing
that if it's a piece of legislation on Aboriginal people,
we should have some input well, not me, but people
chosen by the communities to represent them, and so who
knows what goes forth. But I don't think that constitutional
(18:01):
recognition can be off the table for a country like Australia.
We will find our way back to there because constitutions matter,
and I don't think we talk about that a lot
in this country. I don't think constitutional literacy is particularly
high because we don't do civics very well. But it's important,
and it's important not just for us, it's important for
(18:23):
all Australians, but it is important for our young people
to see themselves recognized by the people, by the nation.
Speaker 5 (18:30):
And so I don't think that.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Stops because of last year's referendum. No one's saying that
to four year terms all the republic.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
And maybe just as a final verification, is it true
that you had a copy, a little copy of the
Constitution when you were a little bit younger and carried
around with you.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
I did have one when I was younger, and I
think the Australian Story like found me a copy of
the one that I actually had as a kid. I
think my little sister sent to Australian Story that I
carried it around like a nerd, but she was making
trouble trying to embarrass me on a national scale.
Speaker 5 (19:08):
But I mean I did. I mean I was sick one.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Day and my mum spent most of her money on
second hand books, and we used to like love secondhand
bookshops and that's where she found a particular book. It
had a copy of the Constitution in it, and I
was I was really mesmerized. I think partly because I
loved Australian politics. We were really poor, you know, we
lived in a Housing Commission home. We were underclass, and
(19:33):
my mum was always like, you know, Australian politics is
what dictates our lives from election to election. And then
I got to University Queensland and studied my first political
theories subject. I hated it. I never took the subject again.
So I think studying it just took the joy out
of it for me.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
But well, we never know, Professor Meghan Davis. There might
be more little kids out there carrying around to Constitution
in the future.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
I hope so, because as I keep saying, all the
all our youth institutions built to change, we can't be
intimidated by it.
Speaker 5 (20:02):
All the Australian people.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
We've got a bit of work to do on politicians.
Speaker 5 (20:06):
But I think it is built to change.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
The drafters wanted it to change with the times, and
I just think as a nation, we've just got to
get better at how we do that.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
Professor Meghan Davis, thank you so much for joining the
Daily Ohs, thank you for having me. Thank you so
much for joining us at the Daily Os. If you
want to read more about the years since the Voice,
we covered it in our weekend newsletter and we'll add
a link to the show notes. Please tell us what
you think in the comments on Spotify. We love hearing
what you have to say. We'll speak to you again
(20:39):
tomorrow and until then, have a great day.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
My name is Lily Madden and I'm a proud Adunda
Bungelung Caalcuttin woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily Os acknowledges
that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the
Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres
Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the
first peoples of these countries, both past and present.
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