May 20, 2025 • 21 mins
Just a heads up, this is the third episode of a three-part series. 'The young Aussies using Ozempic', here. You can listen to part two, 'Ozempic & the business of telehealth' here.
In a new three-part series, TDA is investigating the complex world of medicated weight-loss. In part three, we examine how social media is reshaping the Ozempic conversation, from influencer endorsements to rising tensions around body image, shame, and access. We explore the cultural divide that’s emerging on and offline, and what it reveals about diet culture in 2025.
Note: We've changed the names of some of the people you'll hear from in this episode. These sources are known to TDA, but we've kept some of their personal details private to protect their identity.
Support resources: For 24/7 crisis support, please call Lifeline on 13 11 14. For eating disorder support, help is available through the Butterfly Foundation online or over the phone on 1800 ED HOPE.
Host and producer: Emma Gillespie
Guests: Dr Michael Bonning, Dr Emma Beckett, and Varsha Yajman
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This episode contains distressing themes, including suicide and disordered eating.
For twenty four to seven support, please contact Lifeline on
thirteen eleven fourteen. You'll find some links to more resources
in today's episode description from viral weight loss drug to Hollywood.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Punchline when I look around the from I can't help
but wonder is Ozembic right for me?
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Once touted as the breakthrough medication that could end type
two diabetes, Ozempic has exploded in popularity, taking social media
by storm as a so called miracle drug.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
This group of drugs for diabetic control have been around
for quite a while. Ozembic, however, when it came out,
was the one that had this significant profile for weight loss.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Over the past two episodes, we've explored the world of
weight loss medications glp ones like ozempic, WeGo Vi and
Munjaro to understand how they work and their impact on
young Australians like Grace. The mobility is insane, the change
of perspective is enormous, and Mackenzie I.
Speaker 4 (01:08):
Was in such a bad place that he suggested I
go to hospital stop taking it immediately.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
We've explored topics like ethics and health as well. As
the world of online prescribing. This time, for our final episode,
we'll dive deeper into the social ramifications of weight loss
medications from the lengths that people go to get them.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
People will sometimes aim to deceive and it's harder to
unmask in the online environment than it is in the
face to face.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Environment to how they're being talked about on social media.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Later on at night, before I'm going to bed, I'm like,
why don't I look like that? And those sorts of
popping up and they have it for a long time.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
From the daily OZ I'm Emma Gillespie and this is
investigating Ozmpic Part three. Around one in five Australians over
the age of fifteen are significantly affected by something called
body dissatisfaction. That's according to recent data from national eating
(02:09):
disorder charity the Butterfly Foundation. Body dissatisfaction is a term
that describes the negative feelings and thoughts a person might
have about their physical appearance. The Butterfly Foundation warns body
dissatisfaction is a key risk factor for the development of
quote many types of eating disorders, along with other conditions
such as anxiety, depression, substance use and smoking. Experts say
(02:34):
it stems from a perceived discrepancy between an individual's ideal
state of appearance and their actual physical appearance. In other words,
a difference in how you might want to look versus
how you might actually look. The concept of body dissatisfaction
is nothing new, but there is a distinct and unique
(02:56):
relationship between contemporary beauty standards and the prevalence of social media.
Youth mental health advocate Vasha Yajman says the popularity of
ozempic speaks to a harmful trend based cycle around appearance
and shape.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Thinness is definitely back in, and it feels like the
entire body positivity body neutrality movement has almost had this
regression where it's like, I no, no, no, we're actually back
to those sizes that we're trying to get away from,
and here's a drug that's going to fix everything. In
New York, the average size in a store has decreased,
(03:32):
like the sizes on the racks, and I think that
just goes to show the impact it's actually having on individuals.
And even now when you go to a lot of stores,
you'll see that the biggest size that they have in
stock sometimes will be a medium.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
The so called age of Ozepic, has been blamed for
a slump in demand for larger sizes. A twenty twenty
five report by Vogue Business analyzed the size diversity of
models across recent global fashion weeks. It found and plus
sized representation dropped to zero point three percent, down from
zero point eight percent in twenty twenty four. Mid size representation,
(04:10):
so that's models between Australian sizes ten to sixteen, decreased
from four point three percent in twenty twenty four to
two percent this year.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
It's not just the use of a zambig, but all
the other factors around it as well that are telling women,
especially that they need to be a certain size.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Vasha is also concerned about how these drugs are being
promoted online.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
We're talking about how these celebrities' bodies have changed, and
it's making headlines everywhere. The comments will just be filled
with you're doing a subthig, You're taking a sub big,
it's a zembig. I think there's two kinds of conversations
happening right now. One is that celebrities don't owe us anything.
They're under the same pressure as, if not more pressure,
being the limelight. And then there's the other conversation where
(04:55):
it's like, no, but a lot of people look up
to these celebrities, especially young women.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Butterfly Foundation spokesperson Melissa Wilton told The Daily Ods that
the kind of focus on weight that we're seeing with
medications like ozepic can intensify body dissatisfaction, feelings of shame,
and contribute to the development or continuation of an eating disorder.
Vashi Yajman, who has lived experience with an eating disorder,
(05:21):
echoes these concerns and warns there's a dark side to
the increased visibility of these drugs.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
I think the really interesting thing about ozembig or even
when I think of botox and filler, at one point
it seemed like only the rich or the celebrities had
access to it, and now all of a sudden, that
issue isn't there anymore. It's almost like your everyday person
has access to it. And I think that's where the
fear is, that it's fully just infiltrated on normal day
(05:49):
to day lives. The person at the gym that you
normally see is now on it and has this new
transformation that everyone's raving about. And I think that's been
the biggest.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Worry ozenpic we Go v Munjaro and other GLP one
medications may be relatively new, but this fixation Varsha describes
is not.
Speaker 4 (06:12):
Now people can look to the internet, and before they
looked to other places. They looked to supermodels and women's
magazines and mail order pills and those kinds of things.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
That's doctor Emma Beckett, food and nutrition scientist and adjunct
Senior lecturer at UNSW g On's the current diet culture
is amplifying a covert type of fat phobia.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
Where assumptions are made about fat people and they're not
necessarily set out loud, but their thought and they change
the way that people think of people in larger bodies,
and then that has a knock on effect to how
they treat them and the opportunities that they give them.
So it really is quite damaging. And when you think
(06:55):
about these kinds of spirals of consequence of the way
we're made to feel about our bodies and not value
our bodies, and then the consequence of how that causes
us to treat our bodies and the extreme weight loss,
the extreme diets that people attempt, then that just further
harms our biology.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
We'll be back with more of today's episode right after this.
While ozempic is no longer a Hollywood secret, doctor Beckett
warns there are still equity issues associated with accessing these
drugs lack cost. Right now Australians who take GLP ones
for weight loss are spending upwards of four hundred dollars
(07:36):
a month.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
To do so.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Affordability was a key concern flagged by tda's audience in
a recent ozepic call out on our Instagram. Another consistent
theme our audience brought up was the social media debate
around the ethics of who should or shouldn't be taking
ozempic and how these conversations might be being unfairly thrust
upon people who don't want to have them.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
And I think that's what's happening right now with the
weight conversation, with all of the judgment that comes around
with do you or don't you take this medication, all
of the judgment that comes around what did you eat?
What did you do to deserve it? How did you
create this for yourself? You know, why are you the problem?
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Doctor Beckett says that as weight loss medications have become
more prominent, so too has a cultural divide between the
way we judge good fat and bad fat.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
The good fat people are the ones who try with
diet and exercise and they do the effort, whereas the
bad ones are the ones that cheat and use this
drug and the kind of tutting you here when people
talk about the people who have lost weight and kept
it off in this way. Some people love it because
it cuts out the noise that comes with food. For
some people, first time they've ever been not hungry in
(08:47):
their lives. For other people, it ruins their relationship with
food and they have no appetite or they might feel
very sick.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
She argues, OZMPIC has created a situation that's essentially impossible
to win. In her words, that it's no longer just
fat versus thin or body positive verse fat phobia.
Speaker 4 (09:07):
If you take this drug, you are frowned on for
cheating and stealing it from diabetics. If you don't take
this drug, then you're frowned on for not taking the
options that are available to you. Because there's a group
of people who will say, well, obesity is a disease,
you should take your medication, and it just makes it
more divisive.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Both Doctor Emma Beckett and Vashi Yasmann describe this idea
of pervasive shame being born out of diet culture. But
how does that shame crossover into the way people access healthcare?
Since the pandemic, virtual and telehealth providers have become a
fixture of the national healthcare system. It means more options
(09:47):
for Australians and more flexibility. This extends to the way
ozenpic and other GLP ones are prescribed. Patients have the
choice do they want to access medication through a face
to fee face GP consult or go the telehealth route.
But with that added convenience comes new concerns.
Speaker 4 (10:08):
If these people have started these companies to deliberately sell
these weight loss drugs, that says there's a gap. That
says when people are going to the doctor and having
this conversation with their regular GP, they're not getting what
they need.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
People like Sarah, who decided to go down the virtual
care route after hearing about Juniper from a former colleague.
Speaker 5 (10:29):
She was on it and loving it and stuff.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Juniper is the virtual health provider we spoke about on
episode two.
Speaker 5 (10:37):
And yeah just commits me. I guess to look into it.
Speaker 6 (10:40):
I've looked up Juniper online and then filled out the
questionnaire kind of thing, which started with high age weight.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Sarah was twenty four at the time.
Speaker 6 (10:52):
According to the classic BMI system, I was technically overweight
technically in the realm to be qualified for it, but
for some reason I still lied about being a bit heavier.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Body mass index or BMI is a traditional diagnostic tool
used to measure obesity. As we mentioned in the last episode,
it's a metric used by healthcare providers across the board. However,
questions about its relevance and accuracy have emerged in recent years.
According to findings from a global commission handed down this year,
(11:26):
BMI is unreliable as a measure to diagnose obesity when
used on its own. The Butterfly Foundation said it rejects
the concept of weight or BMI as an indicator of health,
and said our society has a very narrow view around health,
often attributing it to thin or muscular body shapes in
the absence of other indicators that may or may not
(11:47):
be realistic. All that being said, BMI does remain widely
used by healthcare providers and gps, including Juniper, which uses
the metric to screen patients after completing the online questionnaire,
Sarah spoke over the phone to a Juniper doctor who
told her.
Speaker 6 (12:04):
You might experience a vomiting, you might get constipated. It
was more just physical side effects.
Speaker 5 (12:09):
Not the mental side effects.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
She received a prescription for weight loss medication shortly thereafter,
now twenty six. Sarah said she lied about how she
was progressing to Juniper to ensure they would continue prescribing
medication to her. Lies that Sarah claims were easy to
get away with and which experts acknowledged can be a
common sign of disordered eating behaviors.
Speaker 5 (12:31):
Super easy to be dishonest.
Speaker 6 (12:34):
At the time that I applied for it, it was
so I would say that I'd lost a lot less
than I had.
Speaker 5 (12:40):
But I was losing it very, very very quick.
Speaker 6 (12:42):
And then I just kind of became really fixated on
how much weight I was losing, So I was weighing
myself like two or three times a day, and it
really turned into a bit more probably an eating disorder.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Experts also say it's it's pretty common for patients to
hide certain details from prescribers, but they argue it's up
to the healthcare providers to understand what the individual is
trying to achieve why they want a drug glycosenpic and
why they might lie to get it, as well as
why they might choose to go through telehealth or virtual
care over their regular GP.
Speaker 4 (13:20):
Are they going to their standard GP, and their standard
GP is going no, no, you don't need that. And
you go to the people who are selling them directly
and that's their purpose and they go, well, of course
you can have that, and so my question is about
how do we look at that context.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
I've got no problem with understanding that some people are
sensitive about why they might want to talk to a
GP about issues of their health or weight.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
That's Sydney GP and AMA Public Health Chair Doctor Michael Bonning.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
We have clinical experience as doctors. You are often able
to insure why someone might be sitting in front of
you for this, even if some of the things they
say to you might be trying to obfuscape what the
actual reason is. And that's you know, that's pretty common.
Lots of people don't come in and tell us the
whole story. That's okay, that's their prerogative. It's a challenge
that's harder to unmask in the online environment than it
(14:12):
is in the face.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
To face environment with gps like doctor bonding conceding. Telehealth
services present unique challenges for prescribers. Where does that leave
services like Juniper, who currently engage registered nurses to prescribe
GLP ones For Sarah who takes ownership of her dishonesty.
Providers like Juniper could solve many issues by conducting video
(14:35):
calls with patients.
Speaker 6 (14:36):
So they can like actually physically see it's you and
physically see what you're claiming to say you are. I
know people who have submitted photos and tried to photoshop
them to these platforms, So I haven't personally done that,
but I do know of people who have just been like, oh, well,
it's fine, I'll just pull like a flat filter on doctor.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Emma Beckett says, while it might be tempting to say,
let's get rid of these telehealth companies, that's not.
Speaker 4 (14:59):
The our regular gps need to do better about weight
because so many people are scared of going to the
doctor because they're going to get picked on about their weight,
because they're going to get judgment about their weight.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
That judgment, she argues, risks isolating already vulnerable patients further. Instead,
the conversations people are having with their doctors should be
centered around tailored advice and improved support.
Speaker 4 (15:25):
She says, from looking at the whole ecosystem and saying
what could we be doing better here? We need big
picture solutions. We can't just keep putting out fires and
fighting amongst ourselves because that's obviously not getting us anywhere.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
So where do we start.
Speaker 4 (15:39):
Most gps don't have a lot of training in nutrition,
and one of the things we could be doing better
would be giving more people access to dietitians, the people
who are trained to do medical nutrition therapy, and most
people don't access dietitians because they think they're only for
sick people. Making nutrition advice more accessible could actually solve
(16:00):
a lot of these problems because people then could learn
how to make decisions for themselves in a way that
works for them, instead of just getting population level advice
and going why am I failing?
Speaker 1 (16:10):
As a young woman living in recovery from an eating disorder,
Varsha Yajman holds concerns about how other young people are
internalizing the constant messages they're seeing about weight loss medications.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
When I'm watching a lot of content or I'm scrolling
for a long time. Later on at night before I'm
going to bed, I'm like, oh, like, why don't I
look like that? And those sorts of popping up and
they have it for a long time. So I can
imagine somebody who's far more vulnerable, who hasn't had that
sort of help in those resources to be thinking thinness
is back. I need to be achieving that. And even
when you're in recovery, there's so many things around. Oh
(16:46):
I'm going to gain some weight, but not too much weight,
because I still need to fit the standard.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
If the healthcare system needs to do more and do better,
Varsha says, so to do social media platforms. She doesn't
think blanket bands will do much, but rather that content
regulation is critical.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
This type of content is going to be there, so
it's about how we regulate that content. And I don't
necessarily think that banning any of these platforms is going
to solve anything, but actually making sure that social media platforms,
who have billions of dollars to actually use resources, create
resources for people who are vulnerable to the content on there.
And also the government has a role to play. That
(17:25):
idea of the duty of care of holding social media
companies accountable is incredibly important, and I think this also
comes with having more literacy, and this means having education
in schools.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
The experts you've heard from over the last three episodes
have detailed an uphill battle to improve the physical and
emotional wellbeing of Australians. They've described systemic, long term and
pervasive shortcomings across healthcare, social media, pop culture, education and beyond.
(17:58):
But I beck It says things can change.
Speaker 4 (18:02):
One thing that I see a lot currently is the
younger generation thinks the solution is to not talk about weight.
The weight is a taboo topic. If we make it taboo,
then we just set up a whole extra set of
standards and assumptions. And so we've got this double standard
about what we focus on and what we talk about.
It can't just be we wish diet culture wasn't there.
(18:24):
It's making things hard. We have to actively have the
conversations that say, is this a diet culture moment? And
how do we resist that? And you know, the only
way we fix that is by having better conversations. Let's
talk about what we can do as a society together
to help people be in the position to make the
(18:46):
choices that work for them in their bodies. And their lives.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
As experts and advocates continue to push for important conversations
and safer practices, a growing number of young people trying
to figure out what their long term relationship with drugs
like ozempic will look like.
Speaker 6 (19:02):
It's definitely fully unlocked, something new. I've lost like probably
twenty kilos. I don't feel any better than I did
prior my whole life. I was comfortable and like confident
in who I was and everything, and couldn't really be
further from that. Now I spent like three hundred bucks
a month on the medication, and now you spend like
five hundred bucks.
Speaker 5 (19:23):
A month on therapy. It's an expensive lesson.
Speaker 6 (19:26):
You know.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Some will be on GLP ones for life. For others
the financial or physical toll will be simply too great.
But for the many Australians like Sarah who sit somewhere
in the middle, the future remains uncertain.
Speaker 6 (19:41):
I'd be lying if I said I didn't still really
tightly moderate what I eat. You know, I weigh myself
every single day. Yeah, it's been really hard on the
other side of it, and it's really hard to I
guess not. I don't want to say word relapse because
it's not like it's an illicit drugg or something, but
it's true. It's really hard to kind of not try
and just go back on it. I'm still really scared
(20:03):
of putting it back on, so I guess I would
love to have a supply, but I can't afford it,
and it's I know how bad it is for my
mental health, but it is definitely a bat all.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Thank you so much for listening to part three that
wraps up our series investigating Ozenpic. We hope you enjoyed
listening to it. If you did, it would mean so
much if you could share it with a friend, leave
us a review, subscribe and follow wherever you're listening. It
really helps us get the word out so that we
can keep making more original investigations into the future. If
(20:39):
this episode raised any issues or concerns for you, help
is available twenty four to seven through Lifeline on thirteen
eleven fourteen. For eating disort of support, you can contact
the Butterfly Foundation on one eight hundred eed hope that's
one eight hundred double three four six seven three.
Speaker 5 (21:05):
My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda
Bunjelung Kalkudin woman from Gadighl country.
Speaker 4 (21:11):
The Daily oz acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on
the lands of the Gadighl people and pays respect to
all Aboriginal and torrest rate island and nations.
Speaker 5 (21:20):
We pay our respects to the first peoples of these countries,
both past and present.
This episode contains distressing themes, including suicide and disordered eating.
For twenty four to seven support, please contact Lifeline on
thirteen eleven fourteen. You'll find some links to more resources
in today's episode description from viral weight loss drug to Hollywood.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Punchline when I look around the from I can't help
but wonder is Ozembic right for me?
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Once touted as the breakthrough medication that could end type
two diabetes, Ozempic has exploded in popularity, taking social media
by storm as a so called miracle drug.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
This group of drugs for diabetic control have been around
for quite a while. Ozembic, however, when it came out,
was the one that had this significant profile for weight loss.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Over the past two episodes, we've explored the world of
weight loss medications glp ones like ozempic, WeGo Vi and
Munjaro to understand how they work and their impact on
young Australians like Grace. The mobility is insane, the change
of perspective is enormous, and Mackenzie I.
Speaker 4 (01:08):
Was in such a bad place that he suggested I
go to hospital stop taking it immediately.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
We've explored topics like ethics and health as well. As
the world of online prescribing. This time, for our final episode,
we'll dive deeper into the social ramifications of weight loss
medications from the lengths that people go to get them.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
People will sometimes aim to deceive and it's harder to
unmask in the online environment than it is in the
face to face.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Environment to how they're being talked about on social media.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Later on at night, before I'm going to bed, I'm like,
why don't I look like that? And those sorts of
popping up and they have it for a long time.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
From the daily OZ I'm Emma Gillespie and this is
investigating Ozmpic Part three. Around one in five Australians over
the age of fifteen are significantly affected by something called
body dissatisfaction. That's according to recent data from national eating
(02:09):
disorder charity the Butterfly Foundation. Body dissatisfaction is a term
that describes the negative feelings and thoughts a person might
have about their physical appearance. The Butterfly Foundation warns body
dissatisfaction is a key risk factor for the development of
quote many types of eating disorders, along with other conditions
such as anxiety, depression, substance use and smoking. Experts say
(02:34):
it stems from a perceived discrepancy between an individual's ideal
state of appearance and their actual physical appearance. In other words,
a difference in how you might want to look versus
how you might actually look. The concept of body dissatisfaction
is nothing new, but there is a distinct and unique
(02:56):
relationship between contemporary beauty standards and the prevalence of social media.
Youth mental health advocate Vasha Yajman says the popularity of
ozempic speaks to a harmful trend based cycle around appearance
and shape.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Thinness is definitely back in, and it feels like the
entire body positivity body neutrality movement has almost had this
regression where it's like, I no, no, no, we're actually back
to those sizes that we're trying to get away from,
and here's a drug that's going to fix everything. In
New York, the average size in a store has decreased,
(03:32):
like the sizes on the racks, and I think that
just goes to show the impact it's actually having on individuals.
And even now when you go to a lot of stores,
you'll see that the biggest size that they have in
stock sometimes will be a medium.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
The so called age of Ozepic, has been blamed for
a slump in demand for larger sizes. A twenty twenty
five report by Vogue Business analyzed the size diversity of
models across recent global fashion weeks. It found and plus
sized representation dropped to zero point three percent, down from
zero point eight percent in twenty twenty four. Mid size representation,
(04:10):
so that's models between Australian sizes ten to sixteen, decreased
from four point three percent in twenty twenty four to
two percent this year.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
It's not just the use of a zambig, but all
the other factors around it as well that are telling women,
especially that they need to be a certain size.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Vasha is also concerned about how these drugs are being
promoted online.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
We're talking about how these celebrities' bodies have changed, and
it's making headlines everywhere. The comments will just be filled
with you're doing a subthig, You're taking a sub big,
it's a zembig. I think there's two kinds of conversations
happening right now. One is that celebrities don't owe us anything.
They're under the same pressure as, if not more pressure,
being the limelight. And then there's the other conversation where
(04:55):
it's like, no, but a lot of people look up
to these celebrities, especially young women.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Butterfly Foundation spokesperson Melissa Wilton told The Daily Ods that
the kind of focus on weight that we're seeing with
medications like ozepic can intensify body dissatisfaction, feelings of shame,
and contribute to the development or continuation of an eating disorder.
Vashi Yajman, who has lived experience with an eating disorder,
(05:21):
echoes these concerns and warns there's a dark side to
the increased visibility of these drugs.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
I think the really interesting thing about ozembig or even
when I think of botox and filler, at one point
it seemed like only the rich or the celebrities had
access to it, and now all of a sudden, that
issue isn't there anymore. It's almost like your everyday person
has access to it. And I think that's where the
fear is, that it's fully just infiltrated on normal day
(05:49):
to day lives. The person at the gym that you
normally see is now on it and has this new
transformation that everyone's raving about. And I think that's been
the biggest.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Worry ozenpic we Go v Munjaro and other GLP one
medications may be relatively new, but this fixation Varsha describes
is not.
Speaker 4 (06:12):
Now people can look to the internet, and before they
looked to other places. They looked to supermodels and women's
magazines and mail order pills and those kinds of things.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
That's doctor Emma Beckett, food and nutrition scientist and adjunct
Senior lecturer at UNSW g On's the current diet culture
is amplifying a covert type of fat phobia.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
Where assumptions are made about fat people and they're not
necessarily set out loud, but their thought and they change
the way that people think of people in larger bodies,
and then that has a knock on effect to how
they treat them and the opportunities that they give them.
So it really is quite damaging. And when you think
(06:55):
about these kinds of spirals of consequence of the way
we're made to feel about our bodies and not value
our bodies, and then the consequence of how that causes
us to treat our bodies and the extreme weight loss,
the extreme diets that people attempt, then that just further
harms our biology.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
We'll be back with more of today's episode right after this.
While ozempic is no longer a Hollywood secret, doctor Beckett
warns there are still equity issues associated with accessing these
drugs lack cost. Right now Australians who take GLP ones
for weight loss are spending upwards of four hundred dollars
(07:36):
a month.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
To do so.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Affordability was a key concern flagged by tda's audience in
a recent ozepic call out on our Instagram. Another consistent
theme our audience brought up was the social media debate
around the ethics of who should or shouldn't be taking
ozempic and how these conversations might be being unfairly thrust
upon people who don't want to have them.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
And I think that's what's happening right now with the
weight conversation, with all of the judgment that comes around
with do you or don't you take this medication, all
of the judgment that comes around what did you eat?
What did you do to deserve it? How did you
create this for yourself? You know, why are you the problem?
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Doctor Beckett says that as weight loss medications have become
more prominent, so too has a cultural divide between the
way we judge good fat and bad fat.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
The good fat people are the ones who try with
diet and exercise and they do the effort, whereas the
bad ones are the ones that cheat and use this
drug and the kind of tutting you here when people
talk about the people who have lost weight and kept
it off in this way. Some people love it because
it cuts out the noise that comes with food. For
some people, first time they've ever been not hungry in
(08:47):
their lives. For other people, it ruins their relationship with
food and they have no appetite or they might feel
very sick.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
She argues, OZMPIC has created a situation that's essentially impossible
to win. In her words, that it's no longer just
fat versus thin or body positive verse fat phobia.
Speaker 4 (09:07):
If you take this drug, you are frowned on for
cheating and stealing it from diabetics. If you don't take
this drug, then you're frowned on for not taking the
options that are available to you. Because there's a group
of people who will say, well, obesity is a disease,
you should take your medication, and it just makes it
more divisive.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Both Doctor Emma Beckett and Vashi Yasmann describe this idea
of pervasive shame being born out of diet culture. But
how does that shame crossover into the way people access healthcare?
Since the pandemic, virtual and telehealth providers have become a
fixture of the national healthcare system. It means more options
(09:47):
for Australians and more flexibility. This extends to the way
ozenpic and other GLP ones are prescribed. Patients have the
choice do they want to access medication through a face
to fee face GP consult or go the telehealth route.
But with that added convenience comes new concerns.
Speaker 4 (10:08):
If these people have started these companies to deliberately sell
these weight loss drugs, that says there's a gap. That
says when people are going to the doctor and having
this conversation with their regular GP, they're not getting what
they need.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
People like Sarah, who decided to go down the virtual
care route after hearing about Juniper from a former colleague.
Speaker 5 (10:29):
She was on it and loving it and stuff.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Juniper is the virtual health provider we spoke about on
episode two.
Speaker 5 (10:37):
And yeah just commits me. I guess to look into it.
Speaker 6 (10:40):
I've looked up Juniper online and then filled out the
questionnaire kind of thing, which started with high age weight.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Sarah was twenty four at the time.
Speaker 6 (10:52):
According to the classic BMI system, I was technically overweight
technically in the realm to be qualified for it, but
for some reason I still lied about being a bit heavier.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Body mass index or BMI is a traditional diagnostic tool
used to measure obesity. As we mentioned in the last episode,
it's a metric used by healthcare providers across the board. However,
questions about its relevance and accuracy have emerged in recent years.
According to findings from a global commission handed down this year,
(11:26):
BMI is unreliable as a measure to diagnose obesity when
used on its own. The Butterfly Foundation said it rejects
the concept of weight or BMI as an indicator of health,
and said our society has a very narrow view around health,
often attributing it to thin or muscular body shapes in
the absence of other indicators that may or may not
(11:47):
be realistic. All that being said, BMI does remain widely
used by healthcare providers and gps, including Juniper, which uses
the metric to screen patients after completing the online questionnaire,
Sarah spoke over the phone to a Juniper doctor who
told her.
Speaker 6 (12:04):
You might experience a vomiting, you might get constipated. It
was more just physical side effects.
Speaker 5 (12:09):
Not the mental side effects.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
She received a prescription for weight loss medication shortly thereafter,
now twenty six. Sarah said she lied about how she
was progressing to Juniper to ensure they would continue prescribing
medication to her. Lies that Sarah claims were easy to
get away with and which experts acknowledged can be a
common sign of disordered eating behaviors.
Speaker 5 (12:31):
Super easy to be dishonest.
Speaker 6 (12:34):
At the time that I applied for it, it was
so I would say that I'd lost a lot less
than I had.
Speaker 5 (12:40):
But I was losing it very, very very quick.
Speaker 6 (12:42):
And then I just kind of became really fixated on
how much weight I was losing, So I was weighing
myself like two or three times a day, and it
really turned into a bit more probably an eating disorder.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Experts also say it's it's pretty common for patients to
hide certain details from prescribers, but they argue it's up
to the healthcare providers to understand what the individual is
trying to achieve why they want a drug glycosenpic and
why they might lie to get it, as well as
why they might choose to go through telehealth or virtual
care over their regular GP.
Speaker 4 (13:20):
Are they going to their standard GP, and their standard
GP is going no, no, you don't need that. And
you go to the people who are selling them directly
and that's their purpose and they go, well, of course
you can have that, and so my question is about
how do we look at that context.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
I've got no problem with understanding that some people are
sensitive about why they might want to talk to a
GP about issues of their health or weight.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
That's Sydney GP and AMA Public Health Chair Doctor Michael Bonning.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
We have clinical experience as doctors. You are often able
to insure why someone might be sitting in front of
you for this, even if some of the things they
say to you might be trying to obfuscape what the
actual reason is. And that's you know, that's pretty common.
Lots of people don't come in and tell us the
whole story. That's okay, that's their prerogative. It's a challenge
that's harder to unmask in the online environment than it
(14:12):
is in the face.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
To face environment with gps like doctor bonding conceding. Telehealth
services present unique challenges for prescribers. Where does that leave
services like Juniper, who currently engage registered nurses to prescribe
GLP ones For Sarah who takes ownership of her dishonesty.
Providers like Juniper could solve many issues by conducting video
(14:35):
calls with patients.
Speaker 6 (14:36):
So they can like actually physically see it's you and
physically see what you're claiming to say you are. I
know people who have submitted photos and tried to photoshop
them to these platforms, So I haven't personally done that,
but I do know of people who have just been like, oh, well,
it's fine, I'll just pull like a flat filter on doctor.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Emma Beckett says, while it might be tempting to say,
let's get rid of these telehealth companies, that's not.
Speaker 4 (14:59):
The our regular gps need to do better about weight
because so many people are scared of going to the
doctor because they're going to get picked on about their weight,
because they're going to get judgment about their weight.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
That judgment, she argues, risks isolating already vulnerable patients further. Instead,
the conversations people are having with their doctors should be
centered around tailored advice and improved support.
Speaker 4 (15:25):
She says, from looking at the whole ecosystem and saying
what could we be doing better here? We need big
picture solutions. We can't just keep putting out fires and
fighting amongst ourselves because that's obviously not getting us anywhere.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
So where do we start.
Speaker 4 (15:39):
Most gps don't have a lot of training in nutrition,
and one of the things we could be doing better
would be giving more people access to dietitians, the people
who are trained to do medical nutrition therapy, and most
people don't access dietitians because they think they're only for
sick people. Making nutrition advice more accessible could actually solve
(16:00):
a lot of these problems because people then could learn
how to make decisions for themselves in a way that
works for them, instead of just getting population level advice
and going why am I failing?
Speaker 1 (16:10):
As a young woman living in recovery from an eating disorder,
Varsha Yajman holds concerns about how other young people are
internalizing the constant messages they're seeing about weight loss medications.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
When I'm watching a lot of content or I'm scrolling
for a long time. Later on at night before I'm
going to bed, I'm like, oh, like, why don't I
look like that? And those sorts of popping up and
they have it for a long time. So I can
imagine somebody who's far more vulnerable, who hasn't had that
sort of help in those resources to be thinking thinness
is back. I need to be achieving that. And even
when you're in recovery, there's so many things around. Oh
(16:46):
I'm going to gain some weight, but not too much weight,
because I still need to fit the standard.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
If the healthcare system needs to do more and do better,
Varsha says, so to do social media platforms. She doesn't
think blanket bands will do much, but rather that content
regulation is critical.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
This type of content is going to be there, so
it's about how we regulate that content. And I don't
necessarily think that banning any of these platforms is going
to solve anything, but actually making sure that social media platforms,
who have billions of dollars to actually use resources, create
resources for people who are vulnerable to the content on there.
And also the government has a role to play. That
(17:25):
idea of the duty of care of holding social media
companies accountable is incredibly important, and I think this also
comes with having more literacy, and this means having education
in schools.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
The experts you've heard from over the last three episodes
have detailed an uphill battle to improve the physical and
emotional wellbeing of Australians. They've described systemic, long term and
pervasive shortcomings across healthcare, social media, pop culture, education and beyond.
(17:58):
But I beck It says things can change.
Speaker 4 (18:02):
One thing that I see a lot currently is the
younger generation thinks the solution is to not talk about weight.
The weight is a taboo topic. If we make it taboo,
then we just set up a whole extra set of
standards and assumptions. And so we've got this double standard
about what we focus on and what we talk about.
It can't just be we wish diet culture wasn't there.
(18:24):
It's making things hard. We have to actively have the
conversations that say, is this a diet culture moment? And
how do we resist that? And you know, the only
way we fix that is by having better conversations. Let's
talk about what we can do as a society together
to help people be in the position to make the
(18:46):
choices that work for them in their bodies. And their lives.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
As experts and advocates continue to push for important conversations
and safer practices, a growing number of young people trying
to figure out what their long term relationship with drugs
like ozempic will look like.
Speaker 6 (19:02):
It's definitely fully unlocked, something new. I've lost like probably
twenty kilos. I don't feel any better than I did
prior my whole life. I was comfortable and like confident
in who I was and everything, and couldn't really be
further from that. Now I spent like three hundred bucks
a month on the medication, and now you spend like
five hundred bucks.
Speaker 5 (19:23):
A month on therapy. It's an expensive lesson.
Speaker 6 (19:26):
You know.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Some will be on GLP ones for life. For others
the financial or physical toll will be simply too great.
But for the many Australians like Sarah who sit somewhere
in the middle, the future remains uncertain.
Speaker 6 (19:41):
I'd be lying if I said I didn't still really
tightly moderate what I eat. You know, I weigh myself
every single day. Yeah, it's been really hard on the
other side of it, and it's really hard to I
guess not. I don't want to say word relapse because
it's not like it's an illicit drugg or something, but
it's true. It's really hard to kind of not try
and just go back on it. I'm still really scared
(20:03):
of putting it back on, so I guess I would
love to have a supply, but I can't afford it,
and it's I know how bad it is for my
mental health, but it is definitely a bat all.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Thank you so much for listening to part three that
wraps up our series investigating Ozenpic. We hope you enjoyed
listening to it. If you did, it would mean so
much if you could share it with a friend, leave
us a review, subscribe and follow wherever you're listening. It
really helps us get the word out so that we
can keep making more original investigations into the future. If
(20:39):
this episode raised any issues or concerns for you, help
is available twenty four to seven through Lifeline on thirteen
eleven fourteen. For eating disort of support, you can contact
the Butterfly Foundation on one eight hundred eed hope that's
one eight hundred double three four six seven three.
Speaker 5 (21:05):
My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda
Bunjelung Kalkudin woman from Gadighl country.
Speaker 4 (21:11):
The Daily oz acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on
the lands of the Gadighl people and pays respect to
all Aboriginal and torrest rate island and nations.
Speaker 5 (21:20):
We pay our respects to the first peoples of these countries,
both past and present.
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