Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Already and this is this is the Daily OS.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
This is the Daily ohs oh, now it makes sense.
Good morning and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Wednesday,
the twenty fourth of September. I'm Emma Gillespie.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
I'm Lucy Tassel.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
One of the world's most common pain relief medications, has
dominated headlines over the past twenty four to forty eight
hours after recent comments from the Trump administration linking paracetamol
to autism.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
I want to say it like it is. Don't take dalanol,
don't take it.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Warnings from the US about the use of Tailanol, a
brand of paracetamol during pregnancy, prompted Australia's Health Minister Mark
Butler to seek urgent advice from the Therapeutic Goods Administration.
Today we are going to take you through what the
US President and other officials said, the backlash, Australia's response,
and what the science actually says about paraceta safety. But
(01:01):
before we get into it, he is a quick word
from our.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Sponsor, Emma. This story has evolved quite rapidly this week.
Can you take me back to the start? What was said?
How did this begin?
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Yes? So, US President Donald Trump this week made what
he's calling one of the biggest medical announcements in decades
to confront what he has called, quote, the crisis of autism.
Trump was joined by US officials, including Health Secretary Robert F.
Kennedy Junior. RFK Junior, at a White House press conference
on Monday, where he claimed that tylanol is a very
(01:38):
big factor in autism. Now, just to clarify here for
our audience, thailanol and panadol. They are both brand names
for the same active ingredient, paracetamol, which is also called acidaminifen,
which you may have heard some American officials calling it
that effective. Immediately, Trump said that the FDA will be
notifying physicians, gps and doctors that the use of parasitamol
(02:03):
during pregnancy quote, can be associated with a very increased
risk of autism.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
What do we need to know about the FDA.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Yeah, So the FDA is the Food and Drug Administration.
They are America's equivalent to what we have here the TGA,
the Therapeutic Goods Administration. So those bodies are both the
medicine regulators for their respective countries.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Okay, before we go any further, we should probably touch
on kind of can you give us like a broad brushstrokes.
What is autism?
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Yes, so, autism spectrum disorder is a condition diagnosed through
developmental assessments and neurobehavioral observations. It is a neurodevelopmental condition,
meaning if you are autistic, you are born autistic. That's
what the evidence tells us. The support that autistic people
need can vary because it's in the name a spectrum.
(02:55):
Autism is considered a spectrum, so it is often character
rised by differences in communication styles, maybe some issues with
sensory processing, but that disorder means that you know, no
one autistic person is the same as the other. In
the nineteen nineties, a study suggested that routine childhood vaccines
(03:18):
might cause autism, but this study has been debunked its
author was deregistered as a doctor. Regardless, though, that sentiment
that relationship between vaccines and autism remains in some communities.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
And partly propagated by RFK Junior himself.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
In exactly which we will get into in a little bit.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Yes, Now, does this mean that the US's FDA is
advising against the use of paracetamol during pregnancy?
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Not completely, but essentially so Trump's focus is on its
use during pregnancy. He said that paracetamal use should be
restricted to only in cases of an extremely high temperature
in pregnancy.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
In other words, a fever that's very, very dangerous, and
so ideally you don't take it at all, but if
you have to, if you can't tough it out, or
if you's a problem, you're going to end up doing it.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
I mentioned earlier obviously that Kennedy, the Health Secretary, has
a history with suggesting various medicines could lead to certain
neurodevelopmental disorders. But I have to say I was pretty
surprised by the paracetamol of it all. That kind of
to me anyway, came out of nowhere this week. Why
were health officials even looking into this?
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Yeah, so I think you're right, Lucy. It did come
as a little bit of a surprise for us here
in Australia. But there has been a focus within the
Trump administration around autism diagnoses spiking within the US, so
they've tripled in the past two decades. Paracetamol use has
(04:53):
remained largely steady over that time. But correlation does not
equal causation, which we'll get into RFK Junior, specifically, as
you flagged, has long promoted debunked theories around vaccines and autism,
and both he and Trump have stated on previous occasions
that they believe there's an autism epidemic in the US
(05:15):
attributed to this so called explosion in cases. When Kennedy
was appointed to the Health Secretary portfolio, he promised earlier
this year to identify the cause of autism by September.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Okay, so this month, this month, and.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Here we are. And he has pointed to everything from
synthetic food dies to childhood vaccines as potential concern points.
So from his perspective, I suppose paracetamol just falls into
a bigger mission that he is on.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
What is the kind of evidence that the White House
is presenting? Have they explained any of the findings or
evidence linking autism and paracetamol?
Speaker 2 (05:58):
So specifically, the White House does say that it has
evidence to suggest paracetamol use in pregnant women, especially late
in pregnancy, may cause quote long term neurological effects in children.
According to a statement, the findings of multiple large scale
cohort studies link prenatal parasitamal exposure to altered brain development
(06:22):
and adverse birth outcomes. That's what the White House has said,
and that increased incidence in neurodevelopmental disorders also includes ADHD.
So a lot of the focus is about autism, but
there is also a conversation here going on about ADHD.
I do just want to point out, though, that while
the White House has cited large scale studies, the language
(06:44):
used in those studies include words like may, suggest, proposed.
There is no absolute certainty about this link, and Trump
has even conceded that himself this week.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
It's not that everything percent understood or known, but I
think we've made a lot of.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Strides despite that. Trump's advice is that pregnant women should quote,
fight like hell not to take paracetamol.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Okay, is there any data to contradict these claims.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
There have been some studies suggesting a potential link between
paracetamol use in pregnancy and slightly higher autism rates. Yeah,
but according to multiple other studies, it's a different story.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
I wanted to quote some comments from James Cusack. He's
the chief executive of a UK autism research and campaigning
charity called Autistica. He's quoted in the scientific journal Nature
as saying there is no definitive evidence to suggest that
parascetamol use in mothers is a cause of autism, and
when you see any associations, they are very, very small.
(07:54):
He said. At the heart of this is people trying
to look for simple answers to complex problems. The biggest
and most comprehensive study to date on this also tells
a different story to the latest FDA advice from Trump
and RFK Junior. So, a Swedish study published last year
actually looked at data from two and a half million
(08:16):
children born between nineteen ninety five and twenty nineteen.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Wow, that's a huge sample size. That's a sample size
that I dream about when we when we get reports
here at the Daily OS, I'm always looking what's the
sample size exactly? People did they talk to? Two point
five million is incredible.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
I knew you would like that one.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Let's see, thank you.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
So, what this study found was that when researchers compared siblings,
so where one was exposed to paracetamol in utero and
where one wasn't, any apparent link to autism completely disappeared.
So that suggests that other factors like genetics or underlying
maternal health conditions better explain any associations that we might see. Okay,
(08:59):
I think it's also really important to note here from
a public health perspective, paracetamol is considered the safest pain
and temperature medication for pregnant women. Pregnant women don't have
a lot of options when it comes to medications while
they are carrying a fetus, and so you know, this medication,
(09:19):
paracetamol is sometimes their only safe option. It is used
by roughly half of all pregnant people worldwide, and high
temperature during pregnancy, if left untreated, is actually a known
risk factor for a raft of issues, including neurodevelopmental disorders
(09:39):
in children, but also miscourage, blood pressure issues, and you
know anxiety and mental health concerns that come with the
pain of being untreated.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
So does that mean that there could be kind of
unintended consequences from this US announcement.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
That's pretty much what global experts are now warning. Yes. So,
doctor Lyndon Stocker is from the University Hospital Southampton, that's
a really large teaching hospital in the UK, and that
doctor warned that suggesting paracetamol is unsafe will cause much
anxiety to women who already feel vulnerable. So that kind
(10:18):
of speaks to you know, that pregnant women don't have
that many options on the table if they are unwell
while they're pregnant, and paracetamol is really important.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Yeah, we've heard from the US and now from the UK.
We are the Daily OZ. So what has Australia said
in response to this announcement.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
There's been a really strong reaction here in Australia. Shortly
after the FDA updated its advice, and shortly after that
Trump press conference, Federal Health Minister Mark Butler reached out
to the TGA, our FDA, you could say, our drug
regulator for urgent advice on this announcement out of the US. Then,
in a press conference on Monday evening, Butler urged pregnant
(10:58):
women not to take action on these reports without seeking
medical advice first. The Health Minister also reiterated that crucial
point that we've mentioned, paracetamol isn't just for pain relief.
It's a really important treatment against high temperatures. Then the
TGA released a statement on Tuesday rejecting claims linking paracetamol
(11:19):
to autism or ADHD. It's said there is robust scientific
evidence to support the safety of this medication and quote
several large and reliable studies directly contradicting the claims out
of the US.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Before this week. What was the TGO's advice on paracetamol
during pregnancy.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Yes, so, paracetamol is classified as a Category A drug
for pregnancy. That means that it's been taken by large
numbers of pregnant women without any proven increase in birth
defects or harmful impacts on the fetus. So basically regulators
here have given it the greenest green light possible for
use during pregnancy.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
Have we heard anything else from Australia's medical community, like
from Australian doctors.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Yeah, so the Australian Medical Association has come out really
strongly against Trump's claims. The AMA's New South Wales president,
doctor Catherine Austen called the announcement incredibly dangerous. She said
this claim is medically inaccurate and quote effectively spreads health
disinformation at a time when people are incredibly concerned about
(12:24):
their child's health. Austin emphasized that autism has an incredibly
complex causal pathway and it isn't caused by common medications
like panadol.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
James Cusack from Autistica in the UK, who I mentioned earlier,
he noted that even when studies do show associations, they
are very, very small, and I think, you know, we
should address the fact that genetics are thought to play
a major role in autism. These genes that are associated
with autism are highly hereditary. In fact, around eighty percent
(12:57):
of autism cases can be linked to inherited genic mutations.
According to data from UCLA. Autism develops during early brain development,
and there is no evidence that children can develop autism
after early fetal development as a result of exposure to
vaccines or toxins, So there is no evidence that autism
is developed from that point. Okay, And just to round
(13:19):
out the response here in Australia, the Australian Association of
Psychologists has criticized Trump's claims for contributing to autism stigma.
So this is the peak national body for psychologists, and
its Chief Services Officer Amanda Curran said quote, these unsubstantiated
claims seem to be placing the blame on parents for
(13:40):
taking an everyday medication that has proven it to be safe.
She said, autism is a neurodevelopmental difference, not a disease
or deficit to be feared or prevented.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
So for the TDA audience, people who may be listening
to this, who are pregnant or might know someone who's pregnant,
what do they do with this information?
Speaker 2 (14:00):
So really important to listen to the Australian government's advice
on this. I think it has cautioned pregnant women not
to follow Trump and Kennedy's advice without first seeking medical guidance.
The Health Minister Mark Butler said the government is working
with the TGA to provide advice. But Butler said paracetamol
is not obviously just a painkilling medication. It's an important
(14:22):
treatment for fever, which can also be dangerous if left untreated.
I think the translation of all of this, Lucy is
not to panic, to wait until we hear otherwise. But
for now everything is as it was before when it
comes to paracetamol used during pregnancy, which is that it
is completely safe.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Well, thank you so much for diving into that for us, Emma,
a pleasure packing all of it, and thank you so
much for joining us today. We'll be back again this
evening with the headlines and once again tomorrow with another
deep dive. Until then, have a great day. My name
is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda Bugelung Calcoton
(15:03):
woman from Gadighl country. The Daily oz acknowledges that this
podcast is recorded on the lands of the Gadighl people
and pays respect to all Aboriginal and torrest Rate island
and nations. We pay our respects to the first peoples
of these countries, both past and present.