October 5, 2025 • 20 mins
Katherine Bennell-Pegg made history in 2023 when she was selected to join a training program with the European Space Agency, graduating as the first Australian woman to become a qualified astronaut. From studying engineering to working on space missions, and training for the possibility of going to space herself someday, she's part of a new generation of Aussies pushing the boundaries of space exploration. Katherine sat down with TDA to tell us all about what training to become an astronaut actually involves, what excites her, and what she hopes Australia's role in space will look like in the years to come.
Host: Emma Gillespie
Guest: Katherine Bennell-Pegg, Director of Space Technology at the Australian Space Agency
Producer: Orla Maher
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Already and this this is the Daily This is the
Daily OS. Oh now it makes sense.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Good morning and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Monday,
the sixth of October. I'm Emma Gillespie and we are
bringing you something a little bit different today. I want
to introduce you to Australia's first female astronaut, Katherine Bennell Peg.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Most astronauts of my era dream of the moon, right,
like to be able to step out onto the surface
of the Moon and make these discoveries and look back
at her. Can you imagine stepping out of that hat
and looking up.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Catherine made history in twenty twenty three when she was
selected to join a training program with the European Space Agency,
eventually graduating as the first Australian woman to become a
qualified astronaut. Her journey is pretty extraordinary, from studying engineering
to working on space missions and training for the possibility
(01:02):
of going to space herself someday. I spoke to Catherine
all about what training to become an astronaut actually involves,
what excites her and what she hopes Australia's role in
space will look like in the years to come. Welcome
to the podcast. Catherine, Thank you for chatting to us today.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Thank you for having me on. It's my pleasure.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Australia's first female astronaut a pretty cool title, but one
that I'm sure comes after many, many years of hard work.
When was the moment you realized you wanted to become
an astronaut And how do you even begin to pursue
a dream like that?
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Yeah, Well, for me, becoming an astronaut is definitely the
combination of a childhood dream. I grew up in Curley
on the northern Beaches of Sydney, where I remember thinking
the sky was full of stars and I used to
like lying on the grass in my back garden getting
bindies or off by pajamas, looking up at the sky.
And when my mum told me that some of those
(02:03):
stars were entire planets that no one had ever visited before,
I just thought that would be such an adventure. And
I think it's that same feeling kids have when they
want to look under a rock to see if they's
a bug, or climb a tree because it's there and
then look out at the view. It's that feeling that's
driven humans to want to explore our world and understand
(02:23):
it better, and also to explore and understand space. But
as I grew up it evolved into not just curiosity
and adventure, but wanting to make concrete steps forward in
science and knowledge and discovery. I thought that would be
really exciting, and I love sports and outdoor activities and
that just seemed like a wonderful combination. And then when
(02:43):
I was at high school, my school said, well what
do you want to be when you grew up? And
I said, well, an astronaut. You know what else is there?
So I only gave them one choice, and instead of,
you know, belittling me or making fun of me, they
just said, we'll go cigarette what that would really take,
probably hoping i'd some sense. But what I learned is that, yes,
of course it's unlikely Australia didn't even have a space
(03:05):
agency right, let alone an astronaut program. But I saw
that you need a first career before you can even
apply to be an astronaut. You can be a scientist,
you can be an engineer, you can be a pilot,
you can be a medical doctor, or combinations of those things.
You should be doing expeditions to Antarctica, or in the military,
or in scientific research vessel or charity work. You should
(03:26):
have operational skills like fying or scuba diving or skydiving.
You should have lived internationally and speak other languages, and
you should be fit and healthy and a few other things.
And I thought, well, what's the downside, you know, let's
give it a cratch. Someone's going to do that job.
And the pursuit of that job sounded fun, and you
have a first career anyway, it's just the cherry on
(03:47):
the top of that. So I decided to try and
pursue being a pilot in the Air Force. But in
the end that process was taking some time. I was
medically postponed and later that was fortunately found out not
to be a problem. But in the meantime I chose
to pursue space engineering with a double degree in physics,
(04:08):
and I didn't even know what engineering was. I just
went for it because it had the word space in
the title. And I'm so glad I did, because becoming
an engineer has led me to travel and be all
over the world working on some of the most exciting
missions I could have ever hoped for, and also then
bringing me back home to Australia. So now I also
value being an astronaut for what I know space does
(04:30):
for society. We rely on it for new medicines and
for our to look after our environment and understand it,
and also for the impact it can have on a
country in raising the level of aspiration for people, especially
young people. So it's evolving, but it's stronger than ever.
Why I want to be an astronaut and becoming an
astronaut is truly just the beginning.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
I think it says a lot to your character that
that broad enormous remit of kind of things that you'd
need to tick off, that massive life list of prerequisites,
that you saw that as this exciting opportunity and you
weren't scared away. Obviously, growing up you wouldn't have had
a role model in the form of a woman pioneering
(05:14):
in this way, in this space here in Australia.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Did that deter you at all?
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Was that something that you were aware of or were
you so determined to see this dream through that that
was kind of irrelevant.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Well, I've never really been someone that ascribes to hero worship.
No one's perfect and everyone's different and we should all
write our own stories. But certainly there were people that
inspired me I had books about women who were explorers,
and I knew about Sally Right and other women who
had been astronauts. I was also at an all girls
high school, which for me meant that I never really
(05:47):
considered whether I was good enough because other girl or not.
I knew it was some things that not many girls did,
but I didn't think it affected performance, because it quite
frankly doesn't, even if it's still in the minority. So
I was fortunate that by the time I got into
a male dominated field at university, I was already relatively
confident that with enough effort, you can achieve pretty much anything.
(06:10):
But it takes effort.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Can you walk us through a little bit of what
astronaut training looks like. You obviously had gone through all
this rigorous training in terms of becoming a pilot Air
Force engineering. You've lived a whole life, right, and that
would have been challenging in and of itself, But then
we take it up a notch. How do you train
(06:33):
to become an astronaut?
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Yeah, so to become an astronaut, a traditional government astronaut
like I am, where you're representing your country, you first
have to go through a selection process that can take
usually about a year and a half or so. I
applied to be a British astronaut actually through the European
Space Agency, their first call in about ten or so years,
the first and only application I've ever had the chance
(06:56):
to apply to, and that was an incredible adventure in
it and at the end I ended up representing Australia,
which was a greater outcome than I could have hoped
for and one that was entirely unexpected for me. But
once you're great through the selection process, you then have
to do what's called astronaut candidate training or basic training.
(07:17):
And it's only at the end of that training, which
is about a year a year and a half, that
you can call yourself an astronaut. You get your wings
that you wear in your flight suit, and that means
you're eligible for professional government missions representing your country to
the International Space Station or even beyond, say to the Moon,
if your country chooses to pursue that direction. So that
(07:37):
was really exciting and graduated last April, and the training
was spectacular. The first astronauts we know, they were typically
test pilots or fighter pilots from the US or the USSR.
Way back then quite our flight and personality, and that's
because of the kind of work they had to do,
you know, quite hands on, flying new vehicles, very dangerous
(08:00):
and short missions. Quite individual in terms of how you perform. Today,
the main destination for astronauts is the International Space Station.
The International Space Station is huge. It's the size of
a soccer field, almost one hundred and nine meters across,
and the inside part is about as much volume or
air as they a five bedroom house. And most people
are there for six months, and you're working with seven
(08:23):
to fourteen other astronauts up there in some cases, and
you're up there to do science that you can't do
on Earth with gravity and atmosphere in the way into
medicine and materials and every other kind of science and
technology you can imagine. And because you're up there for
such a long time, you have to be an all rounder,
so we learn every role. In the Shuttle era previously
people are very specialized. In this era, people have to
(08:45):
be all rounders. We have to be good enough at
a lot of things. We are medical test subjects ourselves
to think of how the body does weird and wonderful
things in space, and we have to look after our crewmates.
We're also medical doctors or paramedics or nurses depending on
what's happening, or researchers. We need to be engineers and tradees,
space tradees fixing the toilets and the plumbing and the
(09:06):
air cone. There's no gyms. Come to the iss and
fix it for me. We also are in a way
diplomats for a country on the world stage. We have
the opportunity to showcase the best of what our country
can offer. So we need to understand that and be
across that. And we need winter survival, ocean survival, firefighting
and rescue, lots of fitness, and the list goes on.
(09:28):
And we had over three hundred instructors in thirteen months.
It was remarkable we even learn Russian.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
All of that in thirteen months.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Yeah, it was, but it was wonderful. I did it
in a class of five others and we were all
in it together, not in competition, there to help each
other through it, all with different backgrounds, and it was
such a pleasure to learn in that way from the
best in their fields. And the hardest part was, honestly
just pacing ourselves through it so we don't get burnt
out by our own enthusiasm to learn everything.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Sounds are extraordinary. Some would call it terrifying, and that
would be me. Have you ever been to the International
Space Station?
Speaker 1 (10:05):
No? I haven't been to space yet, so maybe that's
something in my future. Nothing's guaranteed. It's still early days
for Australia. We've never had an Australian supported mission with
Australian payloads and Australian science. So you know, the International
Space Station's coming towards the end of its life by
the end of the decade. All these new space stations
are in planning their space stations around the Moon, and
(10:27):
Australia has so many great capabilities that we can bring
to the table if we know the opportunities exist. So
I'm focused on helping with that too.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
How do you stay sharp in you know, your day
to day role is so busy with all of this
outreach and science, communication and science on the ground, But
how do you kind of stay physically and mentally ready
for a future where maybe you are spending six months
on the.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Space station or a space station. Well, yeah, it's an
interesting one. So the life of an astronaut is defined
by uncertainty. Being from a an Emerging Space Nation is
just another onion layer of uncertainty on the top of that,
and we recruited for our ability to handle uncertainty and
performing it, and then we're further trained. What I found
(11:15):
really interesting as part of our human behavior and performance
training was for astronauts self care isn't just a means
to perform, It is actually a performance measure. If you
are burning out, you are seen as not performing even
if you're delivering, and you have to identify in yourself
what those markers are. So for me, it's a certain
(11:35):
amount of our sleep a night, if I don't exercise
for a certain amount of days in a row the
way I normally would, they're like little yellow flags you're
not working sustainably. Sometimes you can't right, you have to push,
but then you need to make sure that you give
yourself that time to recover. And I know I've definitely
been guilty of not doing that in the past, and
it was really refreshing on astronaut training to see seeing
(11:58):
astronauts unashamedly say know when they knew that it would
push them too hard. Because there will always be more
you can learn, there will always be more you can
contribute and you're the only one that can put your
hand up and say, all right, this is as much
as I can do if you want me to keep
performing long the term. So that was really a good
takeaway for me.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
We're in this remarkable era where space is becoming so
much more accessible, seemingly through you know, the kind of
commercial space flights that we're seeing, the collaboration between space
agencies and private companies, and you know, just a couple
of weeks ago on the podcast, we were talking about
NASA's Artemis program, which is aiming to return humans to
(12:39):
the Moon by mid twenty twenty seven and eventually reach Mars.
What excites you the most about this new era that
we're in space is really at the forefront of the
kind of international conversations that we're having right now.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Yeah, it's absolutely phenomenal time to be an astronaut, especially
in an Australian astronaut. At this time. You're right, the world
is really on the cusp of, you know, the next
great space exploration or industrialization endeavor, and this uncertainty creates
opportunity for new entrants, new ways of thinking and doing things.
(13:19):
The Australian Space Agency was only established in twenty eighteen,
so we don't have to turn the ship. We're already
emerging in this more commercialized space era, and that's a
good thing. You know. It should be as commercial as
possible as government as necessary. You know, government uses tax
payer funds and they should be used where only they
can be used, and that's the way that we see this.
(13:40):
So there's an important role to play there. But commercial
actors are also incredibly capable. We can look towards our industry.
We have examples of startups that are more sustainably finding
critical minerals for things like electric cars in a more
environmentally friendly way. The Space Agency has given them grant
funding and they've scaled off the back of that and
(14:01):
are now sending sensors to the Moon's very very exciting.
I know that a lot of my colleagues could end
up on the Moon. I've even qualified for the Moon.
You know, though. The world's the oyster. And the kind
of learnings that we will gain from this, we can't
even imagine. When you have a space mission, you have
an intentional goal, you have an objective right. One of
(14:21):
the things we know that we will learn in the
Artemis missions, going back to the south ball of the
Moon is about the geology of the Moon, what's in
the subsurface. Australian tenses are going to help with that.
You know what is under there, and that's not interesting
just because it's knowledge we don't have. It's interesting because
that will also teach us about the early Earth and
what's deep under the Earth's crust and that is an
(14:42):
input that we need to refine in our climate change models.
So there's those quite practical things, but is also the
unintentional spin out sinnew technologies that will spin out we
can't even imagine, like how MRI and laser technology was
further through space. Same with cordless drill technology, right, So
drills were invented before they were used in space, but
(15:03):
they didn't have a market really, So Apollo needed cordless
drills for astronauts to use on the Moon and then
they were furthered and they could then go to markets.
Every time you use the cordless drill in your home,
you're using space technology. There's a little work to be
done on a global scale to fully understand what space
is doing, but Australia is right there. So it's an
exciting time for us to be out of move forward.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
If you could choose any mission, Moon, Mars Space Station,
something else beyond our wildest dreams, where would you most
want to go or what mission would you most want
to be a part of?
Speaker 1 (15:38):
And why that's incredible? Look to go to space to
make discoveries. Representing Australia in any capacity would be a
phenomenal honor for me. But most astronauts of my era
dream of the Moon right. Like to be able to
step out onto the surface of the Moon and make
those discoveries and look back at Earth as part of
a team of astronauts from a team nations, fostering good
(16:02):
relations around the world at the same time. That would
be phenomenal. Can you imagine stepping out of that hatch
and looking up? You know, Mars is the purview probably
the next generation if they cheat, if humanity chooses to
pursue that, and there's a lot we need to solve
to do that in terms of new medicines and materials
in closed loops, sustainable systems, and if we get there,
(16:23):
the world's come a long way, so that will be amazing.
If I'm going to go sci fi, it's got to
be like an exoplanet or like a sorry, a moon
like Europa where you know there might be life there.
We don't know, we're going to go explore that. That
would be pretty epic as well. I think you want
a good radiation so if you're anywhere near you know
our gas giants, but to look up at them on
(16:44):
the horizon while exploring. Yeah, sci fi stuff, but you
can think like that right sometimes.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Amazing shout out to Europa. What advice Catherine, before we
let you go, what advice would you give to young
astrai as, particularly young women who dream of a career
in space, but maybe they don't know what opportunities even
exist or where to start.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
I would say, go for it. Working in space you
get to be at the cutting edge, of the cutting edge,
at the forefront of discovery, of identifying and solving problems
the world needs solved, and you do it with people
that have such good will across the space sector. Sometimes
you compete, but it's like you compete within a single
sports code. You still have a love for the sport,
so you can appreciate the success of others. As a
(17:33):
young woman or a woman. For those people out there,
you might be in the minority, but you'll find your place,
and when you're in the minority, you just add additional value.
It's something that you should pursue without hesitation if you
want to work in space and you're not particularly stem minded.
Space is a whole industry. Yes, we need scientists to
(17:55):
ask the big questions and engineers to figure out how
to answer them. But we also need space lawyers. We
need space marketers, we need space media. We need people
that stitch together the spacesuits and drive the trucks and
drive the ships with the rockets on the back. We
need the people in mission control teaching the astronauts to
use the fitness equipment. We need nutritionus. It's a whole industry.
(18:15):
If you put the word space in front of a job,
it exists somewhere in the world, or it could if
you choose to create that opportunity and pursue it within Australia.
When I grew up, I felt I had to leave
Australia to have a space career. I followed in the
footsteps of people like Andy Thomas and Paul Scully, power
Australians that went to Space Vanessa, because that's the only
path I could see. But now kids today, they have
(18:37):
so many opportunities here they don't have to leave. They
have a new Australian rocket being developed in Queensland that's
already had its first launch and is planning more. We
have pharmaceuticals coming down in re entry capsules to out
Back Australia, South Australia, and also samples from asteroids and
Mars landing there. We've got small satellites being developed in
(18:59):
many of the state and territories around our country. We've
got school kids putting payloads on the International Space Station,
and we have startups forming all the time. So I
would say, yeah, there's opportunity, and there's also opportunity to
have impact and have joy when you do it.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Catherine, you're an absolute rock star. Thank you so so
much for talking to us today. It's been really fascinating
to learn a bit more about your world and beyond.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Thank you so much, Jasmina Pleasure, thank.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
You so much for listening to today's episode, and a
huge thank you to Catherine bentel Peg for joining us
for that fascinating conversation. We'll be back tomorrow with another
deep dive, but until then, have a great day.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Adunda
Bungelung Calcottin woman from Gadigl country. The Daily oz acknowledges
that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the
Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres
Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the
first peoples of these countries, both past just in present
Already and this this is the Daily This is the
Daily OS. Oh now it makes sense.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Good morning and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Monday,
the sixth of October. I'm Emma Gillespie and we are
bringing you something a little bit different today. I want
to introduce you to Australia's first female astronaut, Katherine Bennell Peg.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Most astronauts of my era dream of the moon, right,
like to be able to step out onto the surface
of the Moon and make these discoveries and look back
at her. Can you imagine stepping out of that hat
and looking up.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Catherine made history in twenty twenty three when she was
selected to join a training program with the European Space Agency,
eventually graduating as the first Australian woman to become a
qualified astronaut. Her journey is pretty extraordinary, from studying engineering
to working on space missions and training for the possibility
(01:02):
of going to space herself someday. I spoke to Catherine
all about what training to become an astronaut actually involves,
what excites her and what she hopes Australia's role in
space will look like in the years to come. Welcome
to the podcast. Catherine, Thank you for chatting to us today.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Thank you for having me on. It's my pleasure.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Australia's first female astronaut a pretty cool title, but one
that I'm sure comes after many, many years of hard work.
When was the moment you realized you wanted to become
an astronaut And how do you even begin to pursue
a dream like that?
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Yeah, Well, for me, becoming an astronaut is definitely the
combination of a childhood dream. I grew up in Curley
on the northern Beaches of Sydney, where I remember thinking
the sky was full of stars and I used to
like lying on the grass in my back garden getting
bindies or off by pajamas, looking up at the sky.
And when my mum told me that some of those
(02:03):
stars were entire planets that no one had ever visited before,
I just thought that would be such an adventure. And
I think it's that same feeling kids have when they
want to look under a rock to see if they's
a bug, or climb a tree because it's there and
then look out at the view. It's that feeling that's
driven humans to want to explore our world and understand
(02:23):
it better, and also to explore and understand space. But
as I grew up it evolved into not just curiosity
and adventure, but wanting to make concrete steps forward in
science and knowledge and discovery. I thought that would be
really exciting, and I love sports and outdoor activities and
that just seemed like a wonderful combination. And then when
(02:43):
I was at high school, my school said, well what
do you want to be when you grew up? And
I said, well, an astronaut. You know what else is there?
So I only gave them one choice, and instead of,
you know, belittling me or making fun of me, they
just said, we'll go cigarette what that would really take,
probably hoping i'd some sense. But what I learned is that, yes,
of course it's unlikely Australia didn't even have a space
(03:05):
agency right, let alone an astronaut program. But I saw
that you need a first career before you can even
apply to be an astronaut. You can be a scientist,
you can be an engineer, you can be a pilot,
you can be a medical doctor, or combinations of those things.
You should be doing expeditions to Antarctica, or in the military,
or in scientific research vessel or charity work. You should
(03:26):
have operational skills like fying or scuba diving or skydiving.
You should have lived internationally and speak other languages, and
you should be fit and healthy and a few other things.
And I thought, well, what's the downside, you know, let's
give it a cratch. Someone's going to do that job.
And the pursuit of that job sounded fun, and you
have a first career anyway, it's just the cherry on
(03:47):
the top of that. So I decided to try and
pursue being a pilot in the Air Force. But in
the end that process was taking some time. I was
medically postponed and later that was fortunately found out not
to be a problem. But in the meantime I chose
to pursue space engineering with a double degree in physics,
(04:08):
and I didn't even know what engineering was. I just
went for it because it had the word space in
the title. And I'm so glad I did, because becoming
an engineer has led me to travel and be all
over the world working on some of the most exciting
missions I could have ever hoped for, and also then
bringing me back home to Australia. So now I also
value being an astronaut for what I know space does
(04:30):
for society. We rely on it for new medicines and
for our to look after our environment and understand it,
and also for the impact it can have on a
country in raising the level of aspiration for people, especially
young people. So it's evolving, but it's stronger than ever.
Why I want to be an astronaut and becoming an
astronaut is truly just the beginning.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
I think it says a lot to your character that
that broad enormous remit of kind of things that you'd
need to tick off, that massive life list of prerequisites,
that you saw that as this exciting opportunity and you
weren't scared away. Obviously, growing up you wouldn't have had
a role model in the form of a woman pioneering
(05:14):
in this way, in this space here in Australia.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Did that deter you at all?
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Was that something that you were aware of or were
you so determined to see this dream through that that
was kind of irrelevant.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Well, I've never really been someone that ascribes to hero worship.
No one's perfect and everyone's different and we should all
write our own stories. But certainly there were people that
inspired me I had books about women who were explorers,
and I knew about Sally Right and other women who
had been astronauts. I was also at an all girls
high school, which for me meant that I never really
(05:47):
considered whether I was good enough because other girl or not.
I knew it was some things that not many girls did,
but I didn't think it affected performance, because it quite
frankly doesn't, even if it's still in the minority. So
I was fortunate that by the time I got into
a male dominated field at university, I was already relatively
confident that with enough effort, you can achieve pretty much anything.
(06:10):
But it takes effort.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Can you walk us through a little bit of what
astronaut training looks like. You obviously had gone through all
this rigorous training in terms of becoming a pilot Air
Force engineering. You've lived a whole life, right, and that
would have been challenging in and of itself, But then
we take it up a notch. How do you train
(06:33):
to become an astronaut?
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Yeah, so to become an astronaut, a traditional government astronaut
like I am, where you're representing your country, you first
have to go through a selection process that can take
usually about a year and a half or so. I
applied to be a British astronaut actually through the European
Space Agency, their first call in about ten or so years,
the first and only application I've ever had the chance
(06:56):
to apply to, and that was an incredible adventure in
it and at the end I ended up representing Australia,
which was a greater outcome than I could have hoped
for and one that was entirely unexpected for me. But
once you're great through the selection process, you then have
to do what's called astronaut candidate training or basic training.
(07:17):
And it's only at the end of that training, which
is about a year a year and a half, that
you can call yourself an astronaut. You get your wings
that you wear in your flight suit, and that means
you're eligible for professional government missions representing your country to
the International Space Station or even beyond, say to the Moon,
if your country chooses to pursue that direction. So that
(07:37):
was really exciting and graduated last April, and the training
was spectacular. The first astronauts we know, they were typically
test pilots or fighter pilots from the US or the USSR.
Way back then quite our flight and personality, and that's
because of the kind of work they had to do,
you know, quite hands on, flying new vehicles, very dangerous
(08:00):
and short missions. Quite individual in terms of how you perform. Today,
the main destination for astronauts is the International Space Station.
The International Space Station is huge. It's the size of
a soccer field, almost one hundred and nine meters across,
and the inside part is about as much volume or
air as they a five bedroom house. And most people
are there for six months, and you're working with seven
(08:23):
to fourteen other astronauts up there in some cases, and
you're up there to do science that you can't do
on Earth with gravity and atmosphere in the way into
medicine and materials and every other kind of science and
technology you can imagine. And because you're up there for
such a long time, you have to be an all rounder,
so we learn every role. In the Shuttle era previously
people are very specialized. In this era, people have to
(08:45):
be all rounders. We have to be good enough at
a lot of things. We are medical test subjects ourselves
to think of how the body does weird and wonderful
things in space, and we have to look after our crewmates.
We're also medical doctors or paramedics or nurses depending on
what's happening, or researchers. We need to be engineers and tradees,
space tradees fixing the toilets and the plumbing and the
(09:06):
air cone. There's no gyms. Come to the iss and
fix it for me. We also are in a way
diplomats for a country on the world stage. We have
the opportunity to showcase the best of what our country
can offer. So we need to understand that and be
across that. And we need winter survival, ocean survival, firefighting
and rescue, lots of fitness, and the list goes on.
(09:28):
And we had over three hundred instructors in thirteen months.
It was remarkable we even learn Russian.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
All of that in thirteen months.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Yeah, it was, but it was wonderful. I did it
in a class of five others and we were all
in it together, not in competition, there to help each
other through it, all with different backgrounds, and it was
such a pleasure to learn in that way from the
best in their fields. And the hardest part was, honestly
just pacing ourselves through it so we don't get burnt
out by our own enthusiasm to learn everything.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Sounds are extraordinary. Some would call it terrifying, and that
would be me. Have you ever been to the International
Space Station?
Speaker 1 (10:05):
No? I haven't been to space yet, so maybe that's
something in my future. Nothing's guaranteed. It's still early days
for Australia. We've never had an Australian supported mission with
Australian payloads and Australian science. So you know, the International
Space Station's coming towards the end of its life by
the end of the decade. All these new space stations
are in planning their space stations around the Moon, and
(10:27):
Australia has so many great capabilities that we can bring
to the table if we know the opportunities exist. So
I'm focused on helping with that too.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
How do you stay sharp in you know, your day
to day role is so busy with all of this
outreach and science, communication and science on the ground, But
how do you kind of stay physically and mentally ready
for a future where maybe you are spending six months
on the.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Space station or a space station. Well, yeah, it's an
interesting one. So the life of an astronaut is defined
by uncertainty. Being from a an Emerging Space Nation is
just another onion layer of uncertainty on the top of that,
and we recruited for our ability to handle uncertainty and
performing it, and then we're further trained. What I found
(11:15):
really interesting as part of our human behavior and performance
training was for astronauts self care isn't just a means
to perform, It is actually a performance measure. If you
are burning out, you are seen as not performing even
if you're delivering, and you have to identify in yourself
what those markers are. So for me, it's a certain
(11:35):
amount of our sleep a night, if I don't exercise
for a certain amount of days in a row the
way I normally would, they're like little yellow flags you're
not working sustainably. Sometimes you can't right, you have to push,
but then you need to make sure that you give
yourself that time to recover. And I know I've definitely
been guilty of not doing that in the past, and
it was really refreshing on astronaut training to see seeing
(11:58):
astronauts unashamedly say know when they knew that it would
push them too hard. Because there will always be more
you can learn, there will always be more you can
contribute and you're the only one that can put your
hand up and say, all right, this is as much
as I can do if you want me to keep
performing long the term. So that was really a good
takeaway for me.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
We're in this remarkable era where space is becoming so
much more accessible, seemingly through you know, the kind of
commercial space flights that we're seeing, the collaboration between space
agencies and private companies, and you know, just a couple
of weeks ago on the podcast, we were talking about
NASA's Artemis program, which is aiming to return humans to
(12:39):
the Moon by mid twenty twenty seven and eventually reach Mars.
What excites you the most about this new era that
we're in space is really at the forefront of the
kind of international conversations that we're having right now.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Yeah, it's absolutely phenomenal time to be an astronaut, especially
in an Australian astronaut. At this time. You're right, the world
is really on the cusp of, you know, the next
great space exploration or industrialization endeavor, and this uncertainty creates
opportunity for new entrants, new ways of thinking and doing things.
(13:19):
The Australian Space Agency was only established in twenty eighteen,
so we don't have to turn the ship. We're already
emerging in this more commercialized space era, and that's a
good thing. You know. It should be as commercial as
possible as government as necessary. You know, government uses tax
payer funds and they should be used where only they
can be used, and that's the way that we see this.
(13:40):
So there's an important role to play there. But commercial
actors are also incredibly capable. We can look towards our industry.
We have examples of startups that are more sustainably finding
critical minerals for things like electric cars in a more
environmentally friendly way. The Space Agency has given them grant
funding and they've scaled off the back of that and
(14:01):
are now sending sensors to the Moon's very very exciting.
I know that a lot of my colleagues could end
up on the Moon. I've even qualified for the Moon.
You know, though. The world's the oyster. And the kind
of learnings that we will gain from this, we can't
even imagine. When you have a space mission, you have
an intentional goal, you have an objective right. One of
(14:21):
the things we know that we will learn in the
Artemis missions, going back to the south ball of the
Moon is about the geology of the Moon, what's in
the subsurface. Australian tenses are going to help with that.
You know what is under there, and that's not interesting
just because it's knowledge we don't have. It's interesting because
that will also teach us about the early Earth and
what's deep under the Earth's crust and that is an
(14:42):
input that we need to refine in our climate change models.
So there's those quite practical things, but is also the
unintentional spin out sinnew technologies that will spin out we
can't even imagine, like how MRI and laser technology was
further through space. Same with cordless drill technology, right, So
drills were invented before they were used in space, but
(15:03):
they didn't have a market really, So Apollo needed cordless
drills for astronauts to use on the Moon and then
they were furthered and they could then go to markets.
Every time you use the cordless drill in your home,
you're using space technology. There's a little work to be
done on a global scale to fully understand what space
is doing, but Australia is right there. So it's an
exciting time for us to be out of move forward.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
If you could choose any mission, Moon, Mars Space Station,
something else beyond our wildest dreams, where would you most
want to go or what mission would you most want
to be a part of?
Speaker 1 (15:38):
And why that's incredible? Look to go to space to
make discoveries. Representing Australia in any capacity would be a
phenomenal honor for me. But most astronauts of my era
dream of the Moon right. Like to be able to
step out onto the surface of the Moon and make
those discoveries and look back at Earth as part of
a team of astronauts from a team nations, fostering good
(16:02):
relations around the world at the same time. That would
be phenomenal. Can you imagine stepping out of that hatch
and looking up? You know, Mars is the purview probably
the next generation if they cheat, if humanity chooses to
pursue that, and there's a lot we need to solve
to do that in terms of new medicines and materials
in closed loops, sustainable systems, and if we get there,
(16:23):
the world's come a long way, so that will be amazing.
If I'm going to go sci fi, it's got to
be like an exoplanet or like a sorry, a moon
like Europa where you know there might be life there.
We don't know, we're going to go explore that. That
would be pretty epic as well. I think you want
a good radiation so if you're anywhere near you know
our gas giants, but to look up at them on
(16:44):
the horizon while exploring. Yeah, sci fi stuff, but you
can think like that right sometimes.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Amazing shout out to Europa. What advice Catherine, before we
let you go, what advice would you give to young
astrai as, particularly young women who dream of a career
in space, but maybe they don't know what opportunities even
exist or where to start.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
I would say, go for it. Working in space you
get to be at the cutting edge, of the cutting edge,
at the forefront of discovery, of identifying and solving problems
the world needs solved, and you do it with people
that have such good will across the space sector. Sometimes
you compete, but it's like you compete within a single
sports code. You still have a love for the sport,
so you can appreciate the success of others. As a
(17:33):
young woman or a woman. For those people out there,
you might be in the minority, but you'll find your place,
and when you're in the minority, you just add additional value.
It's something that you should pursue without hesitation if you
want to work in space and you're not particularly stem minded.
Space is a whole industry. Yes, we need scientists to
(17:55):
ask the big questions and engineers to figure out how
to answer them. But we also need space lawyers. We
need space marketers, we need space media. We need people
that stitch together the spacesuits and drive the trucks and
drive the ships with the rockets on the back. We
need the people in mission control teaching the astronauts to
use the fitness equipment. We need nutritionus. It's a whole industry.
(18:15):
If you put the word space in front of a job,
it exists somewhere in the world, or it could if
you choose to create that opportunity and pursue it within Australia.
When I grew up, I felt I had to leave
Australia to have a space career. I followed in the
footsteps of people like Andy Thomas and Paul Scully, power
Australians that went to Space Vanessa, because that's the only
path I could see. But now kids today, they have
(18:37):
so many opportunities here they don't have to leave. They
have a new Australian rocket being developed in Queensland that's
already had its first launch and is planning more. We
have pharmaceuticals coming down in re entry capsules to out
Back Australia, South Australia, and also samples from asteroids and
Mars landing there. We've got small satellites being developed in
(18:59):
many of the state and territories around our country. We've
got school kids putting payloads on the International Space Station,
and we have startups forming all the time. So I
would say, yeah, there's opportunity, and there's also opportunity to
have impact and have joy when you do it.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Catherine, you're an absolute rock star. Thank you so so
much for talking to us today. It's been really fascinating
to learn a bit more about your world and beyond.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Thank you so much, Jasmina Pleasure, thank.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
You so much for listening to today's episode, and a
huge thank you to Catherine bentel Peg for joining us
for that fascinating conversation. We'll be back tomorrow with another
deep dive, but until then, have a great day.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Adunda
Bungelung Calcottin woman from Gadigl country. The Daily oz acknowledges
that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the
Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres
Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the
first peoples of these countries, both past just in present
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