Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Already and this this is the Daily, This is the Daily.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Ohs oh, now it makes sense. Good morning and welcome
to the Daily Os. It's Monday, the tenth of February.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
I'm Emma and I'm George.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Matilda's captain Sam Kerr faced a London court last week
over allegations she racially abused a police officer by calling
him quote stupid and white. The verbal altercation took place
in January twenty twenty three, so quite some time ago,
after a cab driver re routed Kerr and her partner
Christy Mwis to a police station over a separate incident. Kerr,
(00:43):
who also plays as a forward for Chelsea in the
UK Women's Super League, has pleaded not guilty to a
charge of racially aggravated harassment. Today we are going to
take you through the latest developments from the courtroom on
this case. George, you are with us today of course,
our resident sport journalist tda's finest to talk us through
(01:07):
this incident that landed Sam Kerr in court. We're going
to go through the specifics of the trial itself, but
before we get to the latest, how did we get here?
What landed Sam Kerr? In court in the first place.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
So, as you know, Emma, it's February twenty twenty five.
We're talking about a night out in January twenty twenty three. Wow,
just over two years ago now. So Kerr and her partner,
Christy Mwis got into an argument with a London taxi
driver over vomit which was in or on the car.
Kerr has said in police interviews that she vomited outside
(01:41):
the car outside the window, and the driver said that
the pair refused to pay for the fare and a
cleaning fee for the vomit. During the disagreement, the driver
called the police and was advised by the police operator
to drive to Twickenham Police station in London. In London,
when the taxi arrived, police saw ker exiting the car
(02:01):
through the back window, a broken window which had been
allegedly kicked out by a muus Kerr and Ewis told
police that they had feared for their safety after the
driver rerouted the trip, saying he'd been acting quote in
a crazy way. Kerr described feeling as though they were
being quote held hostage.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Okay, so we've got this night out. Kerr and her
partner get into a cab something unfolds in that taxi,
there is an altercation, a disagreement, and we've ended up
at a police station, a broken window and allegations of
feeling unsafe and being held hostage. What happened next.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Once they were inside the police station, body cam footage
shows Kerk calling officer effing, stupid and white. That vision
was released as the trial began last week. Here's a
bit of what the incident sounded like.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Honestly, you stupid and white.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Okay, I'm not more.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Close stupid, I'm sitting over this ship.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
The officer then arrested Kerve for criminal damage over the
window and for racially aggravated public order over the comments
that she'd made to him. She wasn't immediately charged. Kerr
em Ewis then paid the driver, resolving the criminal damage allegation,
and a year later, Kerr was formally charged with the
racially aggravated harassment count, which she's dealing with now in court.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
So that brings us to the trial. What have we learned?
What did we hear last week?
Speaker 1 (03:39):
So the trial began last week and prosecutors are seeking
to prove that Kerr's actions were both intended to cause
distress and would reasonably be considered harassment, She's pleaded not guilty.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
And what kind of punishment is cur facing? What does
his charge actually entail if prosecutors are successful.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Well, under UK law, racially aggravated harassment carries penalties of
up to six months in jail or a fine of
up to two five hundred pounds, which is about five
thousand Australian dollars.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Okay, so you've mentioned that Sam Kerr has pleaded not guilty.
So how is she defending herself? What is the case
that we heard argued in court?
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Well, Kurzlowys are saying that while the words she used
are not in contention, so she did use those words,
she did not hold hostility towards the police officer, Constable
Stephen Lovell, because he is white. The court also heard
that Kerr and her partner believed they were being kidnapped
by the cab driver, which is a pretty serious allegation,
(04:43):
and that Kerr's comments came at a time when she
felt like police were doubting her claims. The full arrest
video was released last week, with more than thirty minutes
of footage from the body cam. But we'll play you
the part where you can hear Kerr and Mewis describing
feeling afraid in the taxi couldn't get out, but we.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Couldn't get we could not get out of the car.
Listen to the recording. We want to go to court, Okay,
so to recap where we've gotten to at this point,
we've heard in court this defense that Kerr's lawyers are saying.
She accepts that she said those words effing, stupid and white,
that that's not in contention, but that the reason she
(05:23):
maybe acted out in that situation was because she felt
as though this officer wasn't taking her seriously. Her and
her partner felt that they had been kidnapped, and that
kind of is what motivated things to get a little
bit ugly.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
I guess, correct, correct, And Furthermore, during her cross examination
last week, Kerr told the court that she felt intimidated
by the police officer, who she said was in a
position of power and privilege. When prosecutor mister Emlyn Jones
asked what PC Lovel's race had to do with anything,
Kerr replied, I felt it was him using his power
(05:57):
and privilege over me because he perceived me to be
something I'm not. She added that the officer had been
quote treating me differently and not believing me, and that
she quote believed they were treating me differently because of
the color of my skin.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Okay, so we've heard from Sam Kerr, but we also
heard from her partner, Christy Lewis last week. Now, Christy
Lewis has not been charged with anything. She's not defending herself,
but she did appear as a witness I guess to
corroborate Sam Kerr's story. She's the only other person apart
from the taxi driver, who was in that cab that night.
So what did we learn from Christy Lewis.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Somwis was on the witness stand on Thursday. She denied
that they had refused to pay a cleaning fee, but
admitted to breaking the rear window. She said, I had
to do something dramatic to save us. That's just how
I felt in the moment.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
You mentioned earlier, George that it was actually a year
between the taxi incident and Kerr being charged. This is
an interesting aspect to the case, I suppose, and something
we've learned a little bit more about in the last week.
Why did it take so long for that charge.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Yeah, it's been a long time and it's an aspect
of the case that's actually now formed a part of
Kerr's defense. So Lovell, the police officer involved in the incident,
didn't mention taking offense to Kerr's white and stupid comments
in his initial statement, but eleven months later his personal
reflections on the matter shifted. So on Tuesday we heard
(07:27):
Kerr's legal team press the policeman on this. They argued
that initially he'd only claimed he was upset by the altercation,
and then later that claim wasn't enough to bring charges
against Kerr.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Okay, so it didn't meet the threshold for enough evidence
to press a charge.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
Correct. So Kerr's team have argued that Lovell then provided
authorities with an embellished statement where he then alleged Kerr's
comments caused him harm in order for the charge to
be brought, and in court this month all described feeling
belittled and upset.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Okay, So Kerr's legal team has suggested that the officer's
intentions might not have been focused on what actually happened,
but he was focused on maybe producing enough evidence to
lay a charge, even if that meant being dishonest. Is
that kind of the basis of that argument.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Basically, yes, her lawyer grilled level and said maybe he
had quote assumed that she was a troublemaker, that she
was difficult and because of what she does for a living,
she was an arrogant person, basically because she was a
sports star with a lot of money. Was he trying
to make a claim on her.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Something that stood out to me in that discussion last
week about whether or not this officer knew who Sam
Kerr was was about the twenty twenty three World Cup.
And I think this is interesting for Australian audiences. Of course,
you know, who can forget the Matilda's absolutely dominating, getting
further than they ever had in a World Cup, Tilly's fever.
(09:02):
And I suppose what's being tied into this argument from
Sam Kerr's defense is whether or not it would be
plausible that lovel hadn't heard more about her in between
that first and second statement.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Absolutely, and the Tillies went further than they have ever before.
As you said, they went to a semi final, they
played against England and Sam Kerr was the marquee player
in that team. So her brand and her image was
significantly elevated after that tournament.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Sam Kerr has pleaded not guilty to this charge, though,
so what are the next stages? Are we likely to
get a verdict anytime soon?
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Well, the trial began on Monday, so a week ago.
It was originally scheduled to last four or five days.
Hearings continued on Friday in the UK, so it's already
extended past that fifth day. We can expect to get
a verdict in the coming days.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Aside from all of this, though, you know, Sam Kerr
does remain one of Australia's most popular sporting icons, one
of Australia's most recognized sporting faces. Is this going to
impact her position in the Matildas? Is this going to
impact how fans feel about her.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Well as for her position in the Matildas. Football Australia
CEO James Johnson was asked about Curse standing the team
given the current circumstances. He said, quote, what we need
to do. We need to give Sam the opportunity to
go through the trial. Once we complete the trial, then
we'll have a holistic view of what's happened.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Which I think speaks to you know, obviously these are
all allegations. At the moment ongoing legal proceedings, it can
be difficult to kind of draw any conclusions, and language
from those kinds of stakeholders is always going to be
quite careful when matters are before the courts. So it
does seem that maybe the next stages or the security
(10:57):
of her place in the Aussie team might on the
outcome of this trial. Has Football Australia faced any criticism
for how they've handled it.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Well, not necessarily, but most sporting leagues or associations in
Australia typically have what's called a no fault stand down policy,
basically meaning that players involved in court cases are stood
down from their teams and not allowed to play until
a resolution. This is basically in place to prevent reputational
(11:27):
damage to the league, or the brand or the team
that that player is playing for. For example, you might
remember this story Emma Olympic hockey player Tom Craig. He
was arrested in France for trya by cocaine.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
During the Paras Olympics.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Correct, yeah, and he was released without charge. Despite the
fact that he was released without charge, Hockey Australia decided
to give him a twelve month ban from the sport
basically because what they thought was a bit of brand damage.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Got it. Is there a precedent with Football Australia though
specifically when it comes to no fault suspensions.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Yeah, there is, so they have used no fault suspensions before.
Last year, three mccarthur REFC players from the A League
were stood down following charges relating to an alleged betting scandal.
Even if Kerr returns to the team, which I think
she probably will, I'm not sure she'll be put back
into a leadership role straight away.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Because she's the captain of the Matildas. What makes you say.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
That, Well, there are some prominent examples of Australian captains
being dropped from leadership positions. You might remember Steve Smith
and Tim Paine to Test cricket captains that we've had
in the past. Smith has actually returned to captaincy, but
both of those players lost their captaincies due to separate incidents.
(12:51):
Smith for his role in the infamous sandpaper gate and
Pain for his role in a sexiting scandal. Neither faced
criminal charges. I think ALTI regardless of the outcome of
this trial, Kerr will return to the team, but there's
a separate conversation to be had about the impact of
this whole saga on both her personal brand and the
(13:11):
image of the Matildas.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Okay, So, regardless of what's going on legally for sam
Kur right now, she wouldn't be appearing for the Matildas
at present anyway because she's recovering from an injury. So
what is next for the Matildas.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
So the Matilda's are playing later this month. They're playing
in the She Believes Cut, which is an invitational tournament
in the US. They'll play against Japan, Columbia and the US.
So it's a round robin style tournament. When's that that's
later this month, starting feb twenty.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
And what about an injury update while we've got you?
Speaker 1 (13:45):
So Kerr is expected to return in March, and if
she's fit and included in the Matilda's squad, she'll be
playing against South Korea.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
George, always a pleasure having you on the podcast bringing
that sport fertise to the audience of the Daily Oz.
Thank you so much for coming on board today and
talking us through it.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
It's always an honor. Emma, great chatting.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Thanks and don't forget if you want to hear more
or read more from George. He releases a brilliant sport newsletter,
our Daily ol Sport newsletter that drops at five pm
Australian Eastern Daylight Saving time every afternoon. We will pop
a link in the show notes you can sign up
to that for free. Get around him. As I always say,
(14:29):
thanks he Emma, thank you so much for listening to
today's episode. If you learn something, feel free to share
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this evening with your afternoon headlines, but until then, have
a great day.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
My name is Lily Madden and I'm a proud Aarunda
bunge Lung Chalcotin woman from Gadigal Country. The Daily oz
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Speaker 2 (15:06):
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