June 15, 2025 • 19 mins
If you’ve been listening to The Daily Aus for a while, you’ll know we’ve been waiting quite some time to get the leader of the Liberal Party to do an interview with us.
We didn’t have any luck with Peter Dutton. But his replacement, Sussan Ley, immediately agreed to talk with us upon becoming leader.
In today’s episode, TDA's Editor-in-Chief Billi FitzSimons interviews the new Opposition Leader about her assessment of why the Coalition lost, the Coalition’s subsequent breakup, their stance on nuclear, and this idea that the Liberal Party has a ‘women’s problem’.
Interview by: Billi FitzSimons
Producer: Elliot Lawry
Guest: Sussan Ley
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Already and this is this is the Daily This is
the Daily OS. Oh, now it makes sense. Good morning
and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Monday, the sixteenth
of June. I'm Billy fitz.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Simon's I'm Sam Kazlowski.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
After a size catastrophic bombshell election last Susan Lee will
become the first woman to lead the Liberal Party.
Speaker 4 (00:29):
I am humbled, I am honored, and I am up
for the job. The coalition has imploded, with the Nationals
choosing to tear up their agreement with the Liberal Party. Today,
David and I have reached agreement formally to reform the coalition.
I reject characterizations of left and right, but I do
believe that government is ultimately formed in the sensible center.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
If you have been listening to the Daly Os for
a while, you'll know that we have been waiting quite
some time to get the leader of the Liberal Party
to do an interview with us. We didn't have any
luck with Peter Dutton, but his replacement, Susan Lee, immediately
agreed to talk with us upon becoming leader. In today's interview,
I chat with the new opposition leader about her assessment
(01:14):
of why the coalition lost, the coalition's subsequent and brief breakup,
their stance on nuclear and this idea that the Liberal
Party has a women's problem.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Billy, I'm really excited to dive into this chat because
these are some really big questions that you've just outlined
you're going to tackle with the new opposition leader, big
questions for the Liberal Party at the beginning of a
three year term as opposition, and that's a really interesting
time to have the discussions because we can kind of
now set ourselves up a little bit to watch how
the party transforms. So thanks for chasing down this opportunity
(01:51):
for us and for all of our listeners. Of course,
let's jump into it.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Susan Lee, thank you so much for joining the Daily Os.
Speaker 4 (01:58):
It's a pleasure, Billy. It's lovely to meet your team
and see where you are and realize what a great
group of young entrepreneurs TDA is.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Oh, thank you. That's very kind. Now you are the
new leader of the Liberal Party. You have replaced Peter
Dutton after the last election. For anyone who might not
be familiar with you, what do you want young people
to know about who you are?
Speaker 4 (02:19):
I want young people to know first and foremost that
I want to listen to them and meet them where
they are and not assume that I know what young
people are thinking. We got a very serious and humbling
message at the election. A lot of people didn't support us,
and I want to go back into the community and
I'm not in electuring mode. I'm in listening mode.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
You mentioned the election, and I want to talk about
it more because it was the coalition's worst loss in
seventy years. What is your assessment as to why Australia
rejected the Coalition to the extent that they did.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
We didn't have what they were looking for, or we
didn't explain it well enough, or a combination of many factors.
But I stood on polling booth and I talked to
a lot of people coming into vote. I got very
strong messages back in many cases that we weren't considered,
we weren't relevant, and we weren't meeting them where they
were in their lives. So it was a very serious,
(03:17):
humbling message. And my first statement was we need to
listen to that and we need to understand it better.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
What does that tangibly mean that you weren't meeting them
where they were at like what policies do you reflect
on that maybe weren't what the Australian people wanted.
Speaker 4 (03:33):
We had policies on home ownership, but young Australians didn't
necessarily tune into them, or accept them, or hear them properly.
Did they not hear them or did they not want them?
I don't know the answer to that. But when I
asked young people often they hadn't really heard them, or
they had heard a confusing mix of messages from both
sides of politics, and they weren't sure how to unscramble
(03:54):
all of what it meant. Moving ahead a bit, perhaps
in the stage of life that you might be at.
I spoke to a lot of young mums who were
worried about the work family balance, something I identify with
having had three small children, family farming, business, studying when
I was in my thirties, rushing here, there and everywhere,
and that sort of tension is there for a lot
of people, and that includes young people these days. So
(04:17):
we didn't necessarily have something that we were saying to
that group that allowed them to believe that we understood
what their lives were like.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
I've heard you say that australia'sent the coalition a clear message.
What exactly do you think that message was.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
It's a message that we reject your side of politics
on this day and we've parked our vote elsewhere. The
next step is actually understanding what that message was, because
it's not the same message everywhere.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
By the way, after the election, the Liberal Party briefly
broke up with the Nationals. There was a coalition breakup.
What happened, Well.
Speaker 4 (04:51):
The Nationals and the Liberals traditionally are in coalition, and
we both agree that we're stronger when we are, so
we started from that point of view, and you know,
we had a discussion about what that might look like,
and without sort of picking over the details of it,
there was a brief decision made to separate, which I
wasn't comfortable with and I don't honestly think the Nationals
were comfortable with others. So he came back to the
(05:13):
table to give it another go and maybe took some
inspiration from Charlie XCX and Lord and Yeah got back
together on the remix.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
I've heard you say that to form government it needs
to be in the center. Do you think that? I mean,
obviously the Nationals are further to the right than the
Liberal Party. So do you think the Nationals will allow
you to do that to form a government in the center.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
Well, it's a I don't necessarily agree with you that
the Nationals are further to the right. I don't tend
to use those expressions. The mean different things to different people,
and I don't know that they're particularly helpful. Nationals Party
members have a range of different views across a range
of areas, just as we do in the Liberal Party.
But what we will do when we come together is
keep the team inside the tent, so to speak, when
(05:59):
it comes to the decisions that we then prosecute with
the Australian people.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
But you're the one who has talked about needing to
form government in the center, and so I guess I
understand that there are so many different opinions, but you're
the leader, and as leader, do you think that you
will be able to move them to the center.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
Well, it's not my job to move them where they
don't want to go in their own party room, but
they'll have those discussions and I would necessarily agree that
they are right left center themselves. I mean, that's really
up for them, and what I've seen I think they
might be left. Look, I've had all sorts of views
from people who support the National Party, so it's definitely
not the case that they won group. But I mean,
I'm not here to talk about them. I'm here to
(06:36):
talk about the Liberals. And I know that the strength
of our party room is a range of different views
across what might traditionally be called left right. But it
is really about where are the policies that meet Australians.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Where they are I want to look though at a
policy that I understand you have partly decided on, and
that is nuclear This was part of the reason that
the coalition did break up after the election. The Nationals
were for it, the Liberal Party was against it. Where
do you stand on that today?
Speaker 4 (07:08):
That we should, as a first step lift the moratorium
And we've got broad agreement that that is a sensible
first step.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
And by moratorium you mean lift the ban on nuclear
energy in Australia.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
Yes, so that it's possible to go ahead. So that's
a very early, if you like, preliminary first step that
we've agreed on. So what we haven't agreed is to
take the exact policy that we had at the last
election moving forward.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Just to clarify though, that was always going to have
to be the first step to introduce nuclear energy. So
the election result has not changed the coalition's first step
when it comes to nuclear.
Speaker 4 (07:41):
It is always the first step, of course, because there
is a ban that prevents nuclear power. So yes, it
always is the first step. But people would remember that
our policy at the last election was much more detailed
than that and involved considerable investment by government and even
detailed the location of nuclear passtation. So that is no
longer our policy. But the preliminary step, if you like,
(08:02):
of lifting that ban is.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
I just want to understand this more. Because you were
willing to break up the coalition partly over nuclear that
has now changed. And so in the end, was it
a case of politics getting in the way of what
you actually believe.
Speaker 4 (08:17):
Look, there were many issues on the table and this wasn't,
by the way, the main one.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
But it was part of it.
Speaker 4 (08:21):
There were three other policies that the Nationals were talking about,
and we arrived at a sensible place with those, and
I think that nuclear we arrived in a place that
all Australians would agree with. We're not talking about government
investing in nuclear as we were at the last election.
We're talking about a sensible first step in removing that moratorium.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Let's turn to women in the Liberal Party. You have
said in the past that you support quotas for women.
As leader, will you introduce quotas into the Liberal Party?
Speaker 4 (08:49):
Quotas if they exist or a matter for the state divisions.
So sometimes my remarks before you've perhaps not quite captured them.
But what I want to explain is how it works
with our state divisions. And before I say that, by
the way, I need to emphasize it. I want to
see more women in the Liberal Party. There are challenges
for every one of our state divisions to find and
(09:09):
articulate better pathways for women to join the party and
to step up as candidates. But we're a federated body.
It doesn't we don't decide everything from the position of leader.
Each of our divisions is responsible for its own world,
if you like, when it comes to selections.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
So you're saying that as leader you can't do anything
on quotas for women in the Liberal.
Speaker 4 (09:31):
Party, Well, you're capturing something that's very narrow and specific.
So let's step back and say what do we want
to achieve. We want to achieve more women in the party.
So that is a challenge that I will certainly make
clear to all of our divisions and in everything I
ever say as leader when I address those divisions, either
in public or you know, the various forums that we
(09:51):
find ourselves, I will be emphasizing the importance of that.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
With it being up to the state divisions. So my
understanding is that the state divisions do already have a target,
and a target is different to a quota because a
quota is a requirement and a target is not. But
they already have that target in place and it hasn't worked.
The number of Coalition women in the Lower House has
actually gone backwards in the last election. Now less than
(10:18):
a quarter of Lower House Coalition MPs are women. So
do you concede that the targets being up to the
state divisions is not working well?
Speaker 4 (10:26):
The first point tonight is that when we lose an election,
and we lose seats or people who've put their hand
up don't win, then we don't get those women in
the Parliament.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Sorry, I have to pull you off on that because
I understand you can't control who Australia votes for. But
you can control how many women are chosen as candidates,
and only a third of the Liberal Party's candidates at
the last election were women.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
So this is a strong message to the state divisions.
Do this better so we have more women. But again
we do need to respect the processes that the divisions
have and we also need to accept that they need
to reach out and get more women joining and putting
their hand up in the first place.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Just quickly pausing here to hear a quick message from
today's sponsor. So you're saying you can't control the quotas
for women in the Liberal Party. Something you can control, though,
is the shadow cabinet and your colleague, Senator Sarah Henderson
was amongst several senior coalition women who were demoted in
(11:25):
the Shadow cabinet. In her statement, she said, I regret
that a number of high performing Liberal women have been
overlooked or demoted in the new ministry. If your own
colleagues don't believe that you have supported women in this
new ministry, why should Australia.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
Oh well, I have supported women in the new ministry,
and I also understand that when somebody isn't able to
be found a place, as was the case with a
couple of my female colleagues are going to be disappointed,
they're even going to be heard. I understand that, I
know the feeling of not being chosen to be in
that grouping.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
But what do you mean by that?
Speaker 4 (11:59):
You know, well, I know the feeling of Over my
political career, there's been times when people have been selected
to be in shadow ministry, shadow cabinets, or cabinets in
fact of government and I haven't been chosen.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
That was my understanding. That was quite different though, because
you were demoted to the backbench because of allegations of
misusing public funds.
Speaker 4 (12:17):
I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about my entire
career and where I might or might not have been
chosen to step up. So there's many been many phone
calls from leaders over the years, or no phone call,
as it happens, to invite you to be part of,
for example, a cabinet or a shadow cabinet that I
haven't received. So my point is not just that one
instance that you remarked on, but my point is everyone
(12:38):
can't be found a place.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
I want to turn to young people. How would you
describe your party's relationship with young people?
Speaker 4 (12:45):
It needs to improve, There's no doubt about that, and
I think part of that is meeting young people where
they are and listening carefully to what they're telling us
and not assuming that we know what they may seek
from their political representatives. And I want to do that
very sincerely and very openly. In the weeks and months ahead.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
On the topic of young people, Labor is about to
introduce legislation specifically for young people to reduce student that
loans by twenty percent. Will the Coalition support that bill.
Speaker 4 (13:15):
We're going to look at everything anew As I said
when I came into this position, we're not carrying policies forward.
We're going to pause and consider everything. So we will
consider that legislation as it comes forward. We haven't seen
it obviously, and when we do, we'll have a discussion
within our party room about how we respond to it.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
So my understanding is that you have previously said that
you will reject that bill, But are you saying now
you could be open to supporting it.
Speaker 4 (13:41):
Well, we haven't seen the bill, so I would never
say that I would orouldn't support something that we haven't
seen the details in legislation.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
But in the past the Coalition has said that it
won't support it.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
But in the past we said a lot of things.
What I said when we came into government was we're
going to review our policies.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
And so you're saying you're open to supporting that bill.
Speaker 4 (13:58):
We're open to looking at it. And every time someone
says to me, are you for this or against this?
Or you know, you know, do you believe this or that,
I say, look, we've got the time to get this
right and we need to take the time to get
it right.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
So that's Labour's proposal to help young people. What's your proposal.
Speaker 4 (14:13):
Well, we need to come up with proposals around housing,
around incomes, around the cost of rents that is skyrocketing,
about liverability in our capital cities. These are things that
young people are talking to me about already, but as
I said, I want to listen more and hear more.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Another issue that young people care a lot about is
climate change. You are a former environment minister and when
you were Environment minister, you were sued by a group
of young people who argued that you should have a
duty of care to protect them from climate change. Now,
they initially won that case, then you appealed and then
you eventually won. Why do you not believe that governments
(14:50):
should consider young people when making decisions and.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
Never comment on cases that have been before the courts,
that particularly ones that I might have been involved in
in the executive government. And so I'm not going to
comment specifically on that case.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
So okay, just ask a literacy question. It's over now,
so you can comment on it, right.
Speaker 4 (15:06):
But I'm not going to comment on it, okay, because
that's just the cost. Because because going forward, I think
the most important thing is that we acknowledge that climate
change is very important to young people and it should
be very important to Australians in terms of the management
of our environment as well and in playing our part
to reduce global emissions. And when I was Environment Minister,
(15:26):
I was able to secure a billion dollars for the
Great Barrier Reef, which is about the catchments, about the oceans,
about a whole range of things. But because we had
the resources to do that, we were able to actively
protect such a critical, critical part of this country. Similarly
the things that we did in Antarctica and with threatened
species around the country. So I often talk to young
(15:46):
people about the environment and they're not always aware of
the things that we did, and I think it's important
too that when we do something well as a coalition,
that we reflect on that.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Do you believe putting the case aside, then do you
believe that government should consider young people when it's making
decisions about the environment.
Speaker 4 (16:03):
I think all political parties should listen to young people,
but they should listen to everyone.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
But listening is different to actively considering their perspective when
you're making decisions about the country.
Speaker 4 (16:13):
Look, I understand that a lot of young people, in fact,
many young people that I talk to, do talk about
the environment, and do talk about climate change and do
talk about that importance. But again, I'm not going to
put all young people into one group and say they
all want this, they all want that, which you know,
we've got to be careful not to do that because
you know, if I walk around city, a big city,
(16:34):
I think the first thing people will talk about is
their cost of living and their rent. Right now, it
doesn't mean that these other things aren't important as well.
It just means I'm not going to land on where
we should or shouldn't be with policies going forward until
we've had that really thorough discussion.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
Finally, Peter Dutton repeatedly rejected our interview requests. You are,
of course here and we very much appreciate your time.
Is there an acknowledgment that at the last election the
Coalition failed to adequately engage with young Australians.
Speaker 4 (17:02):
I think so, yes, yes, I mean I've always been
happy to engage with you. But yes, I think we
do need to acknowledge that. And I think we need
to acknowledge that we didn't engage in a lot of
different areas. But it doesn't mean that everything we did
was wrong, but it does mean we need to review
what we did, and it does mean we need to
take the time to get it right going forward.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Is there one thing that you want to do differently
to your predecessor, Peter Dudden.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
I'm not going to reflect on Peter. We have different
styles and you know I wouldn't do that. This is
about the future. But I want to consult, I want
to listen, and I want to more broadly engage with
every single aspect of Australian society in every corner of
this country. So my model of leadership is a servant
leadership model, which is about doing what I can to
(17:50):
support the people around me so that we can all
together work hard for the Australian people.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Just lastly, you might have seen that at the last
election we tried to do a leader's debate. I wanted
to do the first ever youth focused leader's debate in Australia.
That did not get up because we could not get
into contact with Peter Dudden. But I want to get
in early for the next election. I'm wondering would you
commit to that for the next election.
Speaker 4 (18:14):
I'm sure I shall. I'm sure I have no problem
with that.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
I will be banging down your dots. Susan Lee, thank
you so much for joining us.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
Pleasure a really interesting chat. Thank you so much for that, Billy.
It'll be fascinating to see how Susan Lee's leadership molds
the Liberal Party that we're going to watch in opposition
for the next couple of years.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
And thank you for joining us on the podcast.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
To everybody listening out there, it really does mean a
lot when you tune in and listen and engage with
these political interviews. It helps us ultimately attract more politicians
coming onto the pod and do a really good job
for you guys.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
That's all we've got time for We'll be back in
the afternoon with some headlines.
Speaker 4 (18:55):
My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Adunda
Bungelung Kalguttin woman from Gaddigol Country.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
The Daily oz acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on
the lands of the Gadigol people and pays respect to
all Aboriginal and Torrestrate island and nations.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
We pay our respects to the first peoples of these countries,
both past and present.
Already and this is this is the Daily This is
the Daily OS. Oh, now it makes sense. Good morning
and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Monday, the sixteenth
of June. I'm Billy fitz.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Simon's I'm Sam Kazlowski.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
After a size catastrophic bombshell election last Susan Lee will
become the first woman to lead the Liberal Party.
Speaker 4 (00:29):
I am humbled, I am honored, and I am up
for the job. The coalition has imploded, with the Nationals
choosing to tear up their agreement with the Liberal Party. Today,
David and I have reached agreement formally to reform the coalition.
I reject characterizations of left and right, but I do
believe that government is ultimately formed in the sensible center.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
If you have been listening to the Daly Os for
a while, you'll know that we have been waiting quite
some time to get the leader of the Liberal Party
to do an interview with us. We didn't have any
luck with Peter Dutton, but his replacement, Susan Lee, immediately
agreed to talk with us upon becoming leader. In today's interview,
I chat with the new opposition leader about her assessment
(01:14):
of why the coalition lost, the coalition's subsequent and brief breakup,
their stance on nuclear and this idea that the Liberal
Party has a women's problem.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Billy, I'm really excited to dive into this chat because
these are some really big questions that you've just outlined
you're going to tackle with the new opposition leader, big
questions for the Liberal Party at the beginning of a
three year term as opposition, and that's a really interesting
time to have the discussions because we can kind of
now set ourselves up a little bit to watch how
the party transforms. So thanks for chasing down this opportunity
(01:51):
for us and for all of our listeners. Of course,
let's jump into it.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Susan Lee, thank you so much for joining the Daily Os.
Speaker 4 (01:58):
It's a pleasure, Billy. It's lovely to meet your team
and see where you are and realize what a great
group of young entrepreneurs TDA is.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Oh, thank you. That's very kind. Now you are the
new leader of the Liberal Party. You have replaced Peter
Dutton after the last election. For anyone who might not
be familiar with you, what do you want young people
to know about who you are?
Speaker 4 (02:19):
I want young people to know first and foremost that
I want to listen to them and meet them where
they are and not assume that I know what young
people are thinking. We got a very serious and humbling
message at the election. A lot of people didn't support us,
and I want to go back into the community and
I'm not in electuring mode. I'm in listening mode.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
You mentioned the election, and I want to talk about
it more because it was the coalition's worst loss in
seventy years. What is your assessment as to why Australia
rejected the Coalition to the extent that they did.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
We didn't have what they were looking for, or we
didn't explain it well enough, or a combination of many factors.
But I stood on polling booth and I talked to
a lot of people coming into vote. I got very
strong messages back in many cases that we weren't considered,
we weren't relevant, and we weren't meeting them where they
were in their lives. So it was a very serious,
(03:17):
humbling message. And my first statement was we need to
listen to that and we need to understand it better.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
What does that tangibly mean that you weren't meeting them
where they were at like what policies do you reflect
on that maybe weren't what the Australian people wanted.
Speaker 4 (03:33):
We had policies on home ownership, but young Australians didn't
necessarily tune into them, or accept them, or hear them properly.
Did they not hear them or did they not want them?
I don't know the answer to that. But when I
asked young people often they hadn't really heard them, or
they had heard a confusing mix of messages from both
sides of politics, and they weren't sure how to unscramble
(03:54):
all of what it meant. Moving ahead a bit, perhaps
in the stage of life that you might be at.
I spoke to a lot of young mums who were
worried about the work family balance, something I identify with
having had three small children, family farming, business, studying when
I was in my thirties, rushing here, there and everywhere,
and that sort of tension is there for a lot
of people, and that includes young people these days. So
(04:17):
we didn't necessarily have something that we were saying to
that group that allowed them to believe that we understood
what their lives were like.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
I've heard you say that australia'sent the coalition a clear message.
What exactly do you think that message was.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
It's a message that we reject your side of politics
on this day and we've parked our vote elsewhere. The
next step is actually understanding what that message was, because
it's not the same message everywhere.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
By the way, after the election, the Liberal Party briefly
broke up with the Nationals. There was a coalition breakup.
What happened, Well.
Speaker 4 (04:51):
The Nationals and the Liberals traditionally are in coalition, and
we both agree that we're stronger when we are, so
we started from that point of view, and you know,
we had a discussion about what that might look like,
and without sort of picking over the details of it,
there was a brief decision made to separate, which I
wasn't comfortable with and I don't honestly think the Nationals
were comfortable with others. So he came back to the
(05:13):
table to give it another go and maybe took some
inspiration from Charlie XCX and Lord and Yeah got back
together on the remix.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
I've heard you say that to form government it needs
to be in the center. Do you think that? I mean,
obviously the Nationals are further to the right than the
Liberal Party. So do you think the Nationals will allow
you to do that to form a government in the center.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
Well, it's a I don't necessarily agree with you that
the Nationals are further to the right. I don't tend
to use those expressions. The mean different things to different people,
and I don't know that they're particularly helpful. Nationals Party
members have a range of different views across a range
of areas, just as we do in the Liberal Party.
But what we will do when we come together is
keep the team inside the tent, so to speak, when
(05:59):
it comes to the decisions that we then prosecute with
the Australian people.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
But you're the one who has talked about needing to
form government in the center, and so I guess I
understand that there are so many different opinions, but you're
the leader, and as leader, do you think that you
will be able to move them to the center.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
Well, it's not my job to move them where they
don't want to go in their own party room, but
they'll have those discussions and I would necessarily agree that
they are right left center themselves. I mean, that's really
up for them, and what I've seen I think they
might be left. Look, I've had all sorts of views
from people who support the National Party, so it's definitely
not the case that they won group. But I mean,
I'm not here to talk about them. I'm here to
(06:36):
talk about the Liberals. And I know that the strength
of our party room is a range of different views
across what might traditionally be called left right. But it
is really about where are the policies that meet Australians.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Where they are I want to look though at a
policy that I understand you have partly decided on, and
that is nuclear This was part of the reason that
the coalition did break up after the election. The Nationals
were for it, the Liberal Party was against it. Where
do you stand on that today?
Speaker 4 (07:08):
That we should, as a first step lift the moratorium
And we've got broad agreement that that is a sensible
first step.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
And by moratorium you mean lift the ban on nuclear
energy in Australia.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
Yes, so that it's possible to go ahead. So that's
a very early, if you like, preliminary first step that
we've agreed on. So what we haven't agreed is to
take the exact policy that we had at the last
election moving forward.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Just to clarify though, that was always going to have
to be the first step to introduce nuclear energy. So
the election result has not changed the coalition's first step
when it comes to nuclear.
Speaker 4 (07:41):
It is always the first step, of course, because there
is a ban that prevents nuclear power. So yes, it
always is the first step. But people would remember that
our policy at the last election was much more detailed
than that and involved considerable investment by government and even
detailed the location of nuclear passtation. So that is no
longer our policy. But the preliminary step, if you like,
(08:02):
of lifting that ban is.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
I just want to understand this more. Because you were
willing to break up the coalition partly over nuclear that
has now changed. And so in the end, was it
a case of politics getting in the way of what
you actually believe.
Speaker 4 (08:17):
Look, there were many issues on the table and this wasn't,
by the way, the main one.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
But it was part of it.
Speaker 4 (08:21):
There were three other policies that the Nationals were talking about,
and we arrived at a sensible place with those, and
I think that nuclear we arrived in a place that
all Australians would agree with. We're not talking about government
investing in nuclear as we were at the last election.
We're talking about a sensible first step in removing that moratorium.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Let's turn to women in the Liberal Party. You have
said in the past that you support quotas for women.
As leader, will you introduce quotas into the Liberal Party?
Speaker 4 (08:49):
Quotas if they exist or a matter for the state divisions.
So sometimes my remarks before you've perhaps not quite captured them.
But what I want to explain is how it works
with our state divisions. And before I say that, by
the way, I need to emphasize it. I want to
see more women in the Liberal Party. There are challenges
for every one of our state divisions to find and
(09:09):
articulate better pathways for women to join the party and
to step up as candidates. But we're a federated body.
It doesn't we don't decide everything from the position of leader.
Each of our divisions is responsible for its own world,
if you like, when it comes to selections.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
So you're saying that as leader you can't do anything
on quotas for women in the Liberal.
Speaker 4 (09:31):
Party, Well, you're capturing something that's very narrow and specific.
So let's step back and say what do we want
to achieve. We want to achieve more women in the party.
So that is a challenge that I will certainly make
clear to all of our divisions and in everything I
ever say as leader when I address those divisions, either
in public or you know, the various forums that we
(09:51):
find ourselves, I will be emphasizing the importance of that.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
With it being up to the state divisions. So my
understanding is that the state divisions do already have a target,
and a target is different to a quota because a
quota is a requirement and a target is not. But
they already have that target in place and it hasn't worked.
The number of Coalition women in the Lower House has
actually gone backwards in the last election. Now less than
(10:18):
a quarter of Lower House Coalition MPs are women. So
do you concede that the targets being up to the
state divisions is not working well?
Speaker 4 (10:26):
The first point tonight is that when we lose an election,
and we lose seats or people who've put their hand
up don't win, then we don't get those women in
the Parliament.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Sorry, I have to pull you off on that because
I understand you can't control who Australia votes for. But
you can control how many women are chosen as candidates,
and only a third of the Liberal Party's candidates at
the last election were women.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
So this is a strong message to the state divisions.
Do this better so we have more women. But again
we do need to respect the processes that the divisions
have and we also need to accept that they need
to reach out and get more women joining and putting
their hand up in the first place.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Just quickly pausing here to hear a quick message from
today's sponsor. So you're saying you can't control the quotas
for women in the Liberal Party. Something you can control, though,
is the shadow cabinet and your colleague, Senator Sarah Henderson
was amongst several senior coalition women who were demoted in
(11:25):
the Shadow cabinet. In her statement, she said, I regret
that a number of high performing Liberal women have been
overlooked or demoted in the new ministry. If your own
colleagues don't believe that you have supported women in this
new ministry, why should Australia.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
Oh well, I have supported women in the new ministry,
and I also understand that when somebody isn't able to
be found a place, as was the case with a
couple of my female colleagues are going to be disappointed,
they're even going to be heard. I understand that, I
know the feeling of not being chosen to be in
that grouping.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
But what do you mean by that?
Speaker 4 (11:59):
You know, well, I know the feeling of Over my
political career, there's been times when people have been selected
to be in shadow ministry, shadow cabinets, or cabinets in
fact of government and I haven't been chosen.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
That was my understanding. That was quite different though, because
you were demoted to the backbench because of allegations of
misusing public funds.
Speaker 4 (12:17):
I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about my entire
career and where I might or might not have been
chosen to step up. So there's many been many phone
calls from leaders over the years, or no phone call,
as it happens, to invite you to be part of,
for example, a cabinet or a shadow cabinet that I
haven't received. So my point is not just that one
instance that you remarked on, but my point is everyone
(12:38):
can't be found a place.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
I want to turn to young people. How would you
describe your party's relationship with young people?
Speaker 4 (12:45):
It needs to improve, There's no doubt about that, and
I think part of that is meeting young people where
they are and listening carefully to what they're telling us
and not assuming that we know what they may seek
from their political representatives. And I want to do that
very sincerely and very openly. In the weeks and months ahead.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
On the topic of young people, Labor is about to
introduce legislation specifically for young people to reduce student that
loans by twenty percent. Will the Coalition support that bill.
Speaker 4 (13:15):
We're going to look at everything anew As I said
when I came into this position, we're not carrying policies forward.
We're going to pause and consider everything. So we will
consider that legislation as it comes forward. We haven't seen
it obviously, and when we do, we'll have a discussion
within our party room about how we respond to it.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
So my understanding is that you have previously said that
you will reject that bill, But are you saying now
you could be open to supporting it.
Speaker 4 (13:41):
Well, we haven't seen the bill, so I would never
say that I would orouldn't support something that we haven't
seen the details in legislation.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
But in the past the Coalition has said that it
won't support it.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
But in the past we said a lot of things.
What I said when we came into government was we're
going to review our policies.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
And so you're saying you're open to supporting that bill.
Speaker 4 (13:58):
We're open to looking at it. And every time someone
says to me, are you for this or against this?
Or you know, you know, do you believe this or that,
I say, look, we've got the time to get this
right and we need to take the time to get
it right.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
So that's Labour's proposal to help young people. What's your proposal.
Speaker 4 (14:13):
Well, we need to come up with proposals around housing,
around incomes, around the cost of rents that is skyrocketing,
about liverability in our capital cities. These are things that
young people are talking to me about already, but as
I said, I want to listen more and hear more.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Another issue that young people care a lot about is
climate change. You are a former environment minister and when
you were Environment minister, you were sued by a group
of young people who argued that you should have a
duty of care to protect them from climate change. Now,
they initially won that case, then you appealed and then
you eventually won. Why do you not believe that governments
(14:50):
should consider young people when making decisions and.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
Never comment on cases that have been before the courts,
that particularly ones that I might have been involved in
in the executive government. And so I'm not going to
comment specifically on that case.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
So okay, just ask a literacy question. It's over now,
so you can comment on it, right.
Speaker 4 (15:06):
But I'm not going to comment on it, okay, because
that's just the cost. Because because going forward, I think
the most important thing is that we acknowledge that climate
change is very important to young people and it should
be very important to Australians in terms of the management
of our environment as well and in playing our part
to reduce global emissions. And when I was Environment Minister,
(15:26):
I was able to secure a billion dollars for the
Great Barrier Reef, which is about the catchments, about the oceans,
about a whole range of things. But because we had
the resources to do that, we were able to actively
protect such a critical, critical part of this country. Similarly
the things that we did in Antarctica and with threatened
species around the country. So I often talk to young
(15:46):
people about the environment and they're not always aware of
the things that we did, and I think it's important
too that when we do something well as a coalition,
that we reflect on that.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Do you believe putting the case aside, then do you
believe that government should consider young people when it's making
decisions about the environment.
Speaker 4 (16:03):
I think all political parties should listen to young people,
but they should listen to everyone.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
But listening is different to actively considering their perspective when
you're making decisions about the country.
Speaker 4 (16:13):
Look, I understand that a lot of young people, in fact,
many young people that I talk to, do talk about
the environment, and do talk about climate change and do
talk about that importance. But again, I'm not going to
put all young people into one group and say they
all want this, they all want that, which you know,
we've got to be careful not to do that because
you know, if I walk around city, a big city,
(16:34):
I think the first thing people will talk about is
their cost of living and their rent. Right now, it
doesn't mean that these other things aren't important as well.
It just means I'm not going to land on where
we should or shouldn't be with policies going forward until
we've had that really thorough discussion.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
Finally, Peter Dutton repeatedly rejected our interview requests. You are,
of course here and we very much appreciate your time.
Is there an acknowledgment that at the last election the
Coalition failed to adequately engage with young Australians.
Speaker 4 (17:02):
I think so, yes, yes, I mean I've always been
happy to engage with you. But yes, I think we
do need to acknowledge that. And I think we need
to acknowledge that we didn't engage in a lot of
different areas. But it doesn't mean that everything we did
was wrong, but it does mean we need to review
what we did, and it does mean we need to
take the time to get it right going forward.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Is there one thing that you want to do differently
to your predecessor, Peter Dudden.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
I'm not going to reflect on Peter. We have different
styles and you know I wouldn't do that. This is
about the future. But I want to consult, I want
to listen, and I want to more broadly engage with
every single aspect of Australian society in every corner of
this country. So my model of leadership is a servant
leadership model, which is about doing what I can to
(17:50):
support the people around me so that we can all
together work hard for the Australian people.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Just lastly, you might have seen that at the last
election we tried to do a leader's debate. I wanted
to do the first ever youth focused leader's debate in Australia.
That did not get up because we could not get
into contact with Peter Dudden. But I want to get
in early for the next election. I'm wondering would you
commit to that for the next election.
Speaker 4 (18:14):
I'm sure I shall. I'm sure I have no problem
with that.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
I will be banging down your dots. Susan Lee, thank
you so much for joining us.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
Pleasure a really interesting chat. Thank you so much for that, Billy.
It'll be fascinating to see how Susan Lee's leadership molds
the Liberal Party that we're going to watch in opposition
for the next couple of years.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
And thank you for joining us on the podcast.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
To everybody listening out there, it really does mean a
lot when you tune in and listen and engage with
these political interviews. It helps us ultimately attract more politicians
coming onto the pod and do a really good job
for you guys.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
That's all we've got time for We'll be back in
the afternoon with some headlines.
Speaker 4 (18:55):
My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Adunda
Bungelung Kalguttin woman from Gaddigol Country.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
The Daily oz acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on
the lands of the Gadigol people and pays respect to
all Aboriginal and Torrestrate island and nations.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
We pay our respects to the first peoples of these countries,
both past and present.
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