September 1, 2024 • 19 mins
The Federal Government has changed its stance on including questions about sexual orientation, gender identity, and variations in sex characteristics in the next census. It follows mounting pressure from LGBTQ+ advocates and several Government MPs. In today’s deep dive, we’ll take you through the census controversy, the backlash and the backflip.
Hosts: Emma Gillespie and Zara Seidler
Producer: Emmeline Peterson
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Already and this is the DAILYA, this is the Dailias.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Oh now it makes sense. Hello, and welcome to the Dahlias.
I'm emma, i'm zara.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
The federal government has backflipped on its decision not to
include questions about sexual orientation in the next census.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
It follows mounting pressure from.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
LGBTQ plus advocates and several government MPs.
Speaker 4 (00:33):
In today's deep dive, we're going to take you through
the census controversy, the backlash, and most recently the backflip.
But first, m what's making headlines today.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
The bodies of six Israeli hostages taken by Hamas on
October seven have been recovered in Gaza. According to Israeli officials,
defense forces were led to the bodies of three men
and three women following an operation lasting several hours on
Saturday afternoon. One of the hostages, kidnapped Baijamas from the
Nova Music festival in southern Israel last year, was a
(01:07):
US citizen whose parents recently spoke at the Democratic National
Convention in Chicago. It's not yet clear when and how
the hostages were killed. It comes amid continued efforts to
negotiate a hostage release and cease fire deal.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
Senior European Union officials have refused to recognize the legitimacy
of Nicholas Maduro as Venezuela's leader. Protests and political tensions
have continued in Venezuela since claims of election interference After
its recent vote. The Venezuelan government has insisted Maduro won
the election. However, opposing candidate Edmundo Gonzalez declared victory after
(01:45):
an independent vote count. The Supreme Court has been accused
of corruption after it ruled in favour of Meduro's victory.
During a meeting of EU officials, the union's vice president said,
quote clearly Madua cannot be recognized as a legitimate winner
of this presidentidential election, that the situation in Venezuela was
quote critical.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
X has been banned in Brazil after a Supreme Court
decision to suspend the platform. The country's top court ordered
Telco's to block access to the popular platform formerly known
as Twitter, over concern around right wing content and misinformation.
It comes after Elon Musk's refusal to comply with local laws.
Several months of negotiations ended in the mass outage when
(02:29):
Musk failed to meet a deadline to put forward a
new legal representative for x in the region. Brazil has
the fifth largest digital population in the world. Musk has
condemned the suspension order as quote illegal political censorship by
what he called an evil dictator cosplaying as a judge.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
In today's good news, the FBI has returned stolen artifacts,
including sacred human skulls, back to Vanuatu. The sacred artifacts
were returned through the US Embassy in Canberra. An FBI
representative in the pacifics said, quote, there's no better feeling
than returning these artifacts to their rightful owners. We are
(03:12):
still a couple of years away from the next census,
and I forgive you if you don't know when that is,
because I can't say that. I think about when the
next census is very often, but it's in twenty twenty six.
And last week it really dominated the headlines. Emma, why
was that the case?
Speaker 2 (03:29):
That is right?
Speaker 3 (03:29):
The headlines have related to whether or not the twenty
twenty six census would include questions about sexual orientation, gender identity,
and variations in sex characteristics.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
It felt like there were new updates.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
And twists and turns rolling in by the day on
this one culminating in a backflip from the government.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
But we're going to make sense of all of it
for you today.
Speaker 4 (03:54):
Yeah, well, I think that a good starting point is
to just explain what we're talking about when we were
referred to the censors.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
So let's start there. What's the census.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
So every five.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Years, the Australian Bureau of Statistics that's the ABS conducts
a national survey known as the Census. It captures details
and trends about Australia's population, so things like health, age, housing,
cultural background and religion. Now, the ABS says that governments
use that data from the Census to make important decisions,
(04:24):
but it goes even further than that. Census data really
provides a snapshot of life in Australia at a certain
moment in time, and those findings are used to inform
all sorts of decision making, so they're used across community groups,
not for profit organizations, businesses, and the data is also
interpreted by researchers and academics to support various studies into
(04:46):
different research fields.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
So census data.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Provides information to inform all of that, but it also
provides a really important comparison tool. So you know what
changes between each census, What do we learn about how
Australia is, changes.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
From demographics, changes all of those sorts of things.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
But and this is really at the heart of what
we're talking about today, the census has never included questions
or has never captured data on sexual orientation or gender identity.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
When this story started to dominate headlines, I was a
bit confused because I remember the last census was in
twenty twenty one. It was in the throes of a
very dark lockdowne and I remember there being this similar
concern at the time about a lack of LGBTQ plus
representation in that sensus. What happened from all of those
(05:36):
conversations happening back in twenty twenty one to it now
being in the headlines again.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Exactly so, like previous surveys, the twenty twenty one Census
didn't include questions about sexual orientation, gender identity, or variations
in sex characteristics so for example, intersex people. And in
August twenty twenty three, two years later, the ABS issued
a statement of regret.
Speaker 4 (05:59):
What's that presumably quite literally, just means they regret something.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Yeah, Well, as you kind of touched on there were
numerous complaints about the lack of LGBTQ plus representation in
the questions of the twenty twenty one survey. So following
those complaints, the ABS said, it recognizes that some members
of the lgbtiq plus community experienced hurt, stress, anguish, and
other negative reactions to some census questions.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
Okay, so that was in twenty twenty three, that statement
of regret by the ABS. What happened after that, Like,
was there any process to I guess remedy If you
regret something or issue a statement of regret, one would
presume you then intend to remedy it moving forward. What
did that process look like?
Speaker 3 (06:43):
Well, that process certainly looked as though a kind of
remedy was underway. Towards addressing those concerns, the ABS launched
an lgbtiq plus Expert Advisory Committee for the twenty twenty
six Census to quote provide guidance an input into the
census topic, review and framing of census questions and the
(07:04):
way that census data is processed and disseminated. By the
end of twenty twenty three, the ABS ended up consulting
with more than one thousand people and organizations on future
census questions from that. The ABS also said it was
considering a question about sexual orientation due to a quote
lack of a reliable evidence base. It also said it
(07:25):
was considering adding sex recorded at birth as a question
to the twenty twenty six census and updating response categories
to quote improve data quality.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
You mentioned there this question of sex recorded at birth.
Can you just elaborate a bit on why that was
an important thing to have captured, or at least why
the advice was that might be important to capture.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
Yes, so separate questions about sex assigned at birth and
gender would give us a specific data set relating to
transgender people and the number of transgender people in Australia.
So the twenty twenty one census did include dude one
question about sex that had three gender options male, female,
(08:06):
or non binary sex, and that was the first time
a non binary option was included in the census. The
ABS said that that was to allow respondents to participate
in the census when the male and female sex categories
might not accurately describe their sex, but that new category
was not intended or designed to collect data on gender,
so therefore the number of people who reported a sex
(08:29):
of non binary on the twenty twenty one census. Quote
could not be used as a measure of gender diversity,
non binary, gender, or transgender communities.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Now.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
According to the ABS, sex is defined as being based
upon a person's sex characteristics, such as their chromosomes, hormones,
and reproductive organs. A person's gender is about social and
cultural differences in identity, expression, and experience as a man, woman,
or non binary person. As gender is not currently listed
as a topic on the Sense and Statistics Regulation, the
(09:01):
ABS said it did not ask this question on the
twenty twenty one census.
Speaker 4 (09:06):
Okay, so let's just recap where we're at.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Yeah, because I feel like.
Speaker 4 (09:09):
You know, every single one of these is a huge
point to dive into. But essentially what happened was the
last time that there was a census was in twenty
twenty one. In that census, there were a number of
things that different groups felt were not included and therefore
they did not feel represented members of the LGBTQ plus community.
Following that survey, the ABS did issue a statement of
(09:32):
regret and said that they were embarking on a journey
in which I guess address these concerns, and one of
them was about the fact that the true number of
transgender people in this country was not being adequately or
accurately represented in the census. Okay, so the ABS said
it was considering adding a sex recorded, a birth question,
a sexual orientation question. Was there anything else that you
(09:55):
know leading up to the next census we heard from
the ABS they were really looking.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
At There was a third proposal, and this will become
important when we talk about the government's latest position on
the twenty twenty six sensus. The ABS noted a significant
data gap on those with variations of sex characteristics, like
intersex people. It said understanding the number of people with
differences to their innate, genetic, hormonal, or physical sex characteristics
(10:20):
can help plan resources to support individuals and their families.
The ABS said in a statement, the small size of
this population group means that sample surveys are unable to
produce both national and lower level estimates.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
And I mean, I think this really goes to the
heart of why so many members of the LGBTQ plus
community have felt so strongly about this story. You know,
so often these sorts of conversations get dragged into kind
of culture war territory. But all this is meant to
be doing is capturing the reality of what this country
looks like and where you know, resourcing should go, and
(10:56):
kind of just getting a true representation of the demographic
so that when those conversations happen, there is actually an
evidence bace that you know, people can point to and say,
these are the numbers we're talking about.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Yeah, it's surprising to me this kind of bias that
has been attached to the idea of collecting data. I
think the argument about why the questions would be included
is about providing a picture of modern Australia.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
A snapshot exactly where we're at.
Speaker 4 (11:24):
Okay, And so we've spoken a lot about the ABS
and the work that they've been doing. Why has this
conversation now come up in the news recently?
Speaker 3 (11:33):
So after the ABS conducted that analysis and consultation that
we've gone through. The Labor Party said last year that
it was committed to making sure quote the twenty twenty
sixth Census gathers relevant data on LGBTIQ plus Australians. So
we've got that on the record from the government last year.
But then on Monday a week ago, it's said it
(11:55):
would not be including those abs updates that were recommended
on sexual or orientation and gender in the next survey.
Assistant Employment Minister Andrew Lee told TDA it is the
decision of the government that there will quote be no
change to the topics in the next census which will
be held in twenty twenty six.
Speaker 4 (12:14):
Okay, and that triggered just immediate and quite visceral backlash
from the Australian community. Can you walk us through the
response that followed from the government coming out with this position.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
Yeah, as you say, the fallout was pretty widespread and immediate.
National advocacy group Equality Australia said the government had quote
betrayed lgbtiq plus people around.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Australia. CEO and A Brown said the.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Community was again going to be quote rendered invisible in
twenty twenty six because the census wasn't going to ask
appropriate questions about their lives, and the CEO of lgbtiq
plus Health Australia, Niki Bath, said that there would still
be significant data gaps needed to address the pervasive health
and well being disparities in the community.
Speaker 4 (13:00):
So very strong response there from the community, but there
was also a very strong response from inside the government,
and I mean, I think it should be said that
it's fairly rare.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
For members of the government.
Speaker 4 (13:13):
We know that the Labor Party has rules about crossing
the floor and all of these sorts of things, and
this wasn't a piece of legislation, but still it was
quite remarkable to see a number of members come out
and say we disagree with the government's position. Can you
talk me through some of the political fallout.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
Yeah, So we saw a group of six Labor MPs
come forward in the end criticizing their party over the decision.
As you say, not a piece of legislation, but still
rare to see so many people within Labor criticizing a
Labor decision. That movement was led by Labor MP Josh Burns.
He told TDA that the community deserves to be counted.
(13:49):
He said the data collected in the census helps with
government decision making and the delivery of services, and therefore
I think we should reconsider the questions we put forward
in the twenty twenty sixth sense. Some Coalition MPs also
supported adding the questions, but Opposition leader Peter Dutton said
that he felt pretty happy with the existing survey. And
he questioned what he called a woke agenda. The Greens
(14:14):
accused the government of failing to do the bare minimum
in data collection when it comes to the census. Green's
lgbtiq plus spokesperson Stephen Bates said the lack of data
on lgbtiq plus Australians was stalling necessary reforms to healthcare
and education. By Friday morning, Australia's Sex Discrimination Commissioner had
(14:34):
also weighed in. So Doctor Anna Cody, who is the Commissioner,
wrote a letter to the Assistant Minister for Employment Andrew Lee,
talking about the sort of implications of the decision for
the health, wellbeing and general equality of the community of
LGBTQ plus Australians as well as their families. She pointed
to the kind of significant health disparities faced by the
(14:56):
lgbtiq plus community compared to hetero and cisgender Australians and
emphasized the message that we'd heard from a lot of
other groups just about the importance of accurate population data
to inform decisions on you know, health and mental health services.
She said it was a matter of practical, effective policy.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
So you've painted a picture of just significant pressure mounting
on the government kind of from every angle, both within
their own party, you know, opposition, Greens, people outside the system.
How did the government respond?
Speaker 2 (15:28):
So? Anthony Albanezi, the Prime Minister, did.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
An interview with ABC Radio on Friday morning where he
said there will be a question about sexual preference in
the next census, depending on the findings of ABS testing.
So to unpack that, he said the government had been
in discussions with the ABS and that they were going
to test for a new question. He said that would
(15:51):
be quote one question about sexuality, sexual preference. Albanezy said
that the ABS will be testing making sure quote that
people will have the option of not answering it or
if they prefer not to answer, And he said that
as long as the testing quote goes okay and a
question can be developed in a way that's sensitive and
that gets the information that is required, the ABS will
(16:14):
be testing that with a draft question. Now, I do
want to point out that Albaneze's comments only related to
a question about sexual orientation. He did not imply that
there will be any kind of testing on questions to
do with gender identity or variations in sex characteristics, which
(16:35):
were the proposals suggested by the ABS after that statement
of regret in twenty twenty three.
Speaker 4 (16:40):
Okay, so the government essentially backflipped. They came out with
a position, it was deeply unpopular and they've now kind
of walked it back. Was there any explanation given?
Speaker 3 (16:48):
Albaneze pretty much downplayed it. He said that the government
thinks the census has been pretty effective in the past.
He noted what he thought about the censors being the
incorrect vehicle to engage with the community across various issues,
and he downplayed the census, saying that it's not the
be all and end all. He also noted other data
(17:10):
collection strategies that are available to us now, including on
our phones and through social media, so that arguably felt
like a little bit of a distraction. He did defend
Labour's track record on anti discrimination legislation, though he noted
the survey isn't for two years, and I think a
good point that was made is that there is an
(17:31):
election to get through next year. The survey comes the
year after that, so a lot could change in the
makeup of the government between now and then. But I
do want to note there was some discussion around the
government not including questions representing LGBTQ plus Australia in the
next census to avoid discrimination and harmful conversations. But kind
(17:54):
of ironically you could say that is where the conversation
ended up going. The sexist Crimination Commissioner pointed out that
failing to address those concerns identified by the ABS and
BUY advocacy groups after the twenty twenty one survey risked
doing exactly that. Commissioner Cody said she was concerned in
the face of rising negative retrick that it could strengthen
(18:17):
the voices of discrimination and division. That quote seek to
disrupt the nation's social cohesion. I thought this was a
really strong quote from the Commissioner to finish on. While
we must seek to minimize harm, the answer cannot be
to do nothing. LGBTIQA plus Australians and their rights must
be protected and supported, as must the rights of all Australians.
Speaker 4 (18:40):
M a really interesting deep dive, and I know that
a lot of people would have seen these headlines but
perhaps not understood.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
All of that context.
Speaker 4 (18:47):
So thank you for explaining that and thank you for
joining us for another day on the Daily ODS.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
If you learned something from this.
Speaker 4 (18:53):
Episode, feel free to leave a covent on Spotify or
wherever you're listening. If you're watching us on YouTube, we
love to know what you're thinking and feeling about the
topics that we cover here at TDA. We'll be back
again tomorrow, but until then, have a fantastic Monday. My
name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda Bungelung
(19:14):
Calcuttin woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges that
this podcast is recorded on the lands of the Gadighl
people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres s
right island and nations. We pay our respects to the
first peoples of these countries, both past and present,
Already and this is the DAILYA, this is the Dailias.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Oh now it makes sense. Hello, and welcome to the Dahlias.
I'm emma, i'm zara.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
The federal government has backflipped on its decision not to
include questions about sexual orientation in the next census.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
It follows mounting pressure from.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
LGBTQ plus advocates and several government MPs.
Speaker 4 (00:33):
In today's deep dive, we're going to take you through
the census controversy, the backlash, and most recently the backflip.
But first, m what's making headlines today.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
The bodies of six Israeli hostages taken by Hamas on
October seven have been recovered in Gaza. According to Israeli officials,
defense forces were led to the bodies of three men
and three women following an operation lasting several hours on
Saturday afternoon. One of the hostages, kidnapped Baijamas from the
Nova Music festival in southern Israel last year, was a
(01:07):
US citizen whose parents recently spoke at the Democratic National
Convention in Chicago. It's not yet clear when and how
the hostages were killed. It comes amid continued efforts to
negotiate a hostage release and cease fire deal.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
Senior European Union officials have refused to recognize the legitimacy
of Nicholas Maduro as Venezuela's leader. Protests and political tensions
have continued in Venezuela since claims of election interference After
its recent vote. The Venezuelan government has insisted Maduro won
the election. However, opposing candidate Edmundo Gonzalez declared victory after
(01:45):
an independent vote count. The Supreme Court has been accused
of corruption after it ruled in favour of Meduro's victory.
During a meeting of EU officials, the union's vice president said,
quote clearly Madua cannot be recognized as a legitimate winner
of this presidentidential election, that the situation in Venezuela was
quote critical.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
X has been banned in Brazil after a Supreme Court
decision to suspend the platform. The country's top court ordered
Telco's to block access to the popular platform formerly known
as Twitter, over concern around right wing content and misinformation.
It comes after Elon Musk's refusal to comply with local laws.
Several months of negotiations ended in the mass outage when
(02:29):
Musk failed to meet a deadline to put forward a
new legal representative for x in the region. Brazil has
the fifth largest digital population in the world. Musk has
condemned the suspension order as quote illegal political censorship by
what he called an evil dictator cosplaying as a judge.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
In today's good news, the FBI has returned stolen artifacts,
including sacred human skulls, back to Vanuatu. The sacred artifacts
were returned through the US Embassy in Canberra. An FBI
representative in the pacifics said, quote, there's no better feeling
than returning these artifacts to their rightful owners. We are
(03:12):
still a couple of years away from the next census,
and I forgive you if you don't know when that is,
because I can't say that. I think about when the
next census is very often, but it's in twenty twenty six.
And last week it really dominated the headlines. Emma, why
was that the case?
Speaker 2 (03:29):
That is right?
Speaker 3 (03:29):
The headlines have related to whether or not the twenty
twenty six census would include questions about sexual orientation, gender identity,
and variations in sex characteristics.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
It felt like there were new updates.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
And twists and turns rolling in by the day on
this one culminating in a backflip from the government.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
But we're going to make sense of all of it
for you today.
Speaker 4 (03:54):
Yeah, well, I think that a good starting point is
to just explain what we're talking about when we were
referred to the censors.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
So let's start there. What's the census.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
So every five.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Years, the Australian Bureau of Statistics that's the ABS conducts
a national survey known as the Census. It captures details
and trends about Australia's population, so things like health, age, housing,
cultural background and religion. Now, the ABS says that governments
use that data from the Census to make important decisions,
(04:24):
but it goes even further than that. Census data really
provides a snapshot of life in Australia at a certain
moment in time, and those findings are used to inform
all sorts of decision making, so they're used across community groups,
not for profit organizations, businesses, and the data is also
interpreted by researchers and academics to support various studies into
(04:46):
different research fields.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
So census data.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Provides information to inform all of that, but it also
provides a really important comparison tool. So you know what
changes between each census, What do we learn about how
Australia is, changes.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
From demographics, changes all of those sorts of things.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
But and this is really at the heart of what
we're talking about today, the census has never included questions
or has never captured data on sexual orientation or gender identity.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
When this story started to dominate headlines, I was a
bit confused because I remember the last census was in
twenty twenty one. It was in the throes of a
very dark lockdowne and I remember there being this similar
concern at the time about a lack of LGBTQ plus
representation in that sensus. What happened from all of those
(05:36):
conversations happening back in twenty twenty one to it now
being in the headlines again.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Exactly so, like previous surveys, the twenty twenty one Census
didn't include questions about sexual orientation, gender identity, or variations
in sex characteristics so for example, intersex people. And in
August twenty twenty three, two years later, the ABS issued
a statement of regret.
Speaker 4 (05:59):
What's that presumably quite literally, just means they regret something.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Yeah, Well, as you kind of touched on there were
numerous complaints about the lack of LGBTQ plus representation in
the questions of the twenty twenty one survey. So following
those complaints, the ABS said, it recognizes that some members
of the lgbtiq plus community experienced hurt, stress, anguish, and
other negative reactions to some census questions.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
Okay, so that was in twenty twenty three, that statement
of regret by the ABS. What happened after that, Like,
was there any process to I guess remedy If you
regret something or issue a statement of regret, one would
presume you then intend to remedy it moving forward. What
did that process look like?
Speaker 3 (06:43):
Well, that process certainly looked as though a kind of
remedy was underway. Towards addressing those concerns, the ABS launched
an lgbtiq plus Expert Advisory Committee for the twenty twenty
six Census to quote provide guidance an input into the
census topic, review and framing of census questions and the
(07:04):
way that census data is processed and disseminated. By the
end of twenty twenty three, the ABS ended up consulting
with more than one thousand people and organizations on future
census questions from that. The ABS also said it was
considering a question about sexual orientation due to a quote
lack of a reliable evidence base. It also said it
(07:25):
was considering adding sex recorded at birth as a question
to the twenty twenty six census and updating response categories
to quote improve data quality.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
You mentioned there this question of sex recorded at birth.
Can you just elaborate a bit on why that was
an important thing to have captured, or at least why
the advice was that might be important to capture.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
Yes, so separate questions about sex assigned at birth and
gender would give us a specific data set relating to
transgender people and the number of transgender people in Australia.
So the twenty twenty one census did include dude one
question about sex that had three gender options male, female,
(08:06):
or non binary sex, and that was the first time
a non binary option was included in the census. The
ABS said that that was to allow respondents to participate
in the census when the male and female sex categories
might not accurately describe their sex, but that new category
was not intended or designed to collect data on gender,
so therefore the number of people who reported a sex
(08:29):
of non binary on the twenty twenty one census. Quote
could not be used as a measure of gender diversity,
non binary, gender, or transgender communities.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Now.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
According to the ABS, sex is defined as being based
upon a person's sex characteristics, such as their chromosomes, hormones,
and reproductive organs. A person's gender is about social and
cultural differences in identity, expression, and experience as a man, woman,
or non binary person. As gender is not currently listed
as a topic on the Sense and Statistics Regulation, the
(09:01):
ABS said it did not ask this question on the
twenty twenty one census.
Speaker 4 (09:06):
Okay, so let's just recap where we're at.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Yeah, because I feel like.
Speaker 4 (09:09):
You know, every single one of these is a huge
point to dive into. But essentially what happened was the
last time that there was a census was in twenty
twenty one. In that census, there were a number of
things that different groups felt were not included and therefore
they did not feel represented members of the LGBTQ plus community.
Following that survey, the ABS did issue a statement of
(09:32):
regret and said that they were embarking on a journey
in which I guess address these concerns, and one of
them was about the fact that the true number of
transgender people in this country was not being adequately or
accurately represented in the census. Okay, so the ABS said
it was considering adding a sex recorded, a birth question,
a sexual orientation question. Was there anything else that you
(09:55):
know leading up to the next census we heard from
the ABS they were really looking.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
At There was a third proposal, and this will become
important when we talk about the government's latest position on
the twenty twenty six sensus. The ABS noted a significant
data gap on those with variations of sex characteristics, like
intersex people. It said understanding the number of people with
differences to their innate, genetic, hormonal, or physical sex characteristics
(10:20):
can help plan resources to support individuals and their families.
The ABS said in a statement, the small size of
this population group means that sample surveys are unable to
produce both national and lower level estimates.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
And I mean, I think this really goes to the
heart of why so many members of the LGBTQ plus
community have felt so strongly about this story. You know,
so often these sorts of conversations get dragged into kind
of culture war territory. But all this is meant to
be doing is capturing the reality of what this country
looks like and where you know, resourcing should go, and
(10:56):
kind of just getting a true representation of the demographic
so that when those conversations happen, there is actually an
evidence bace that you know, people can point to and say,
these are the numbers we're talking about.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Yeah, it's surprising to me this kind of bias that
has been attached to the idea of collecting data. I
think the argument about why the questions would be included
is about providing a picture of modern Australia.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
A snapshot exactly where we're at.
Speaker 4 (11:24):
Okay, And so we've spoken a lot about the ABS
and the work that they've been doing. Why has this
conversation now come up in the news recently?
Speaker 3 (11:33):
So after the ABS conducted that analysis and consultation that
we've gone through. The Labor Party said last year that
it was committed to making sure quote the twenty twenty
sixth Census gathers relevant data on LGBTIQ plus Australians. So
we've got that on the record from the government last year.
But then on Monday a week ago, it's said it
(11:55):
would not be including those abs updates that were recommended
on sexual or orientation and gender in the next survey.
Assistant Employment Minister Andrew Lee told TDA it is the
decision of the government that there will quote be no
change to the topics in the next census which will
be held in twenty twenty six.
Speaker 4 (12:14):
Okay, and that triggered just immediate and quite visceral backlash
from the Australian community. Can you walk us through the
response that followed from the government coming out with this position.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
Yeah, as you say, the fallout was pretty widespread and immediate.
National advocacy group Equality Australia said the government had quote
betrayed lgbtiq plus people around.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Australia. CEO and A Brown said the.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Community was again going to be quote rendered invisible in
twenty twenty six because the census wasn't going to ask
appropriate questions about their lives, and the CEO of lgbtiq
plus Health Australia, Niki Bath, said that there would still
be significant data gaps needed to address the pervasive health
and well being disparities in the community.
Speaker 4 (13:00):
So very strong response there from the community, but there
was also a very strong response from inside the government,
and I mean, I think it should be said that
it's fairly rare.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
For members of the government.
Speaker 4 (13:13):
We know that the Labor Party has rules about crossing
the floor and all of these sorts of things, and
this wasn't a piece of legislation, but still it was
quite remarkable to see a number of members come out
and say we disagree with the government's position. Can you
talk me through some of the political fallout.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
Yeah, So we saw a group of six Labor MPs
come forward in the end criticizing their party over the decision.
As you say, not a piece of legislation, but still
rare to see so many people within Labor criticizing a
Labor decision. That movement was led by Labor MP Josh Burns.
He told TDA that the community deserves to be counted.
(13:49):
He said the data collected in the census helps with
government decision making and the delivery of services, and therefore
I think we should reconsider the questions we put forward
in the twenty twenty sixth sense. Some Coalition MPs also
supported adding the questions, but Opposition leader Peter Dutton said
that he felt pretty happy with the existing survey. And
he questioned what he called a woke agenda. The Greens
(14:14):
accused the government of failing to do the bare minimum
in data collection when it comes to the census. Green's
lgbtiq plus spokesperson Stephen Bates said the lack of data
on lgbtiq plus Australians was stalling necessary reforms to healthcare
and education. By Friday morning, Australia's Sex Discrimination Commissioner had
(14:34):
also weighed in. So Doctor Anna Cody, who is the Commissioner,
wrote a letter to the Assistant Minister for Employment Andrew Lee,
talking about the sort of implications of the decision for
the health, wellbeing and general equality of the community of
LGBTQ plus Australians as well as their families. She pointed
to the kind of significant health disparities faced by the
(14:56):
lgbtiq plus community compared to hetero and cisgender Australians and
emphasized the message that we'd heard from a lot of
other groups just about the importance of accurate population data
to inform decisions on you know, health and mental health services.
She said it was a matter of practical, effective policy.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
So you've painted a picture of just significant pressure mounting
on the government kind of from every angle, both within
their own party, you know, opposition, Greens, people outside the system.
How did the government respond?
Speaker 2 (15:28):
So? Anthony Albanezi, the Prime Minister, did.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
An interview with ABC Radio on Friday morning where he
said there will be a question about sexual preference in
the next census, depending on the findings of ABS testing.
So to unpack that, he said the government had been
in discussions with the ABS and that they were going
to test for a new question. He said that would
(15:51):
be quote one question about sexuality, sexual preference. Albanezy said
that the ABS will be testing making sure quote that
people will have the option of not answering it or
if they prefer not to answer, And he said that
as long as the testing quote goes okay and a
question can be developed in a way that's sensitive and
that gets the information that is required, the ABS will
(16:14):
be testing that with a draft question. Now, I do
want to point out that Albaneze's comments only related to
a question about sexual orientation. He did not imply that
there will be any kind of testing on questions to
do with gender identity or variations in sex characteristics, which
(16:35):
were the proposals suggested by the ABS after that statement
of regret in twenty twenty three.
Speaker 4 (16:40):
Okay, so the government essentially backflipped. They came out with
a position, it was deeply unpopular and they've now kind
of walked it back. Was there any explanation given?
Speaker 3 (16:48):
Albaneze pretty much downplayed it. He said that the government
thinks the census has been pretty effective in the past.
He noted what he thought about the censors being the
incorrect vehicle to engage with the community across various issues,
and he downplayed the census, saying that it's not the
be all and end all. He also noted other data
(17:10):
collection strategies that are available to us now, including on
our phones and through social media, so that arguably felt
like a little bit of a distraction. He did defend
Labour's track record on anti discrimination legislation, though he noted
the survey isn't for two years, and I think a
good point that was made is that there is an
(17:31):
election to get through next year. The survey comes the
year after that, so a lot could change in the
makeup of the government between now and then. But I
do want to note there was some discussion around the
government not including questions representing LGBTQ plus Australia in the
next census to avoid discrimination and harmful conversations. But kind
(17:54):
of ironically you could say that is where the conversation
ended up going. The sexist Crimination Commissioner pointed out that
failing to address those concerns identified by the ABS and
BUY advocacy groups after the twenty twenty one survey risked
doing exactly that. Commissioner Cody said she was concerned in
the face of rising negative retrick that it could strengthen
(18:17):
the voices of discrimination and division. That quote seek to
disrupt the nation's social cohesion. I thought this was a
really strong quote from the Commissioner to finish on. While
we must seek to minimize harm, the answer cannot be
to do nothing. LGBTIQA plus Australians and their rights must
be protected and supported, as must the rights of all Australians.
Speaker 4 (18:40):
M a really interesting deep dive, and I know that
a lot of people would have seen these headlines but
perhaps not understood.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
All of that context.
Speaker 4 (18:47):
So thank you for explaining that and thank you for
joining us for another day on the Daily ODS.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
If you learned something from this.
Speaker 4 (18:53):
Episode, feel free to leave a covent on Spotify or
wherever you're listening. If you're watching us on YouTube, we
love to know what you're thinking and feeling about the
topics that we cover here at TDA. We'll be back
again tomorrow, but until then, have a fantastic Monday. My
name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda Bungelung
(19:14):
Calcuttin woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges that
this podcast is recorded on the lands of the Gadighl
people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres s
right island and nations. We pay our respects to the
first peoples of these countries, both past and present,
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.