December 12, 2024 • 12 mins
It's official. Papua New Guinea is joining Australia's National Rugby League (NRL) competition from 2028. A deal between the two nations will expand the global profile of one of Australia's most dominant sports, but it could become one of geopolitical importance, too. As concern grows around China's increased presence in the South Pacific, what does the PNG NRL deal tell us about diplomacy and global politics? We'll explore more in today's deep dive.
Hosts: George Finlayson and Emma Gillespie
Producer: Orla Maher
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Already and this is the this is the daily This
is the Daily OS. Oh, now it makes sense. Good
morning and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Friday, the
thirteenth of December.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
I'm Emma and I'm George. Yesterday, Prime Minister Anthony Albanezi
and Papa New Guineas Prime Minister James Marape announced Australia's
support for a P and G team to join the
National Rugby League competition from twenty twenty eight.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Rugby league is P and g's national sport, and P
ANDNG deserves a national team. On the surface, this is
a story about expanding one of Australia's most dominant sports
in the Asia Pacific region. But as we heard from
the leaders of both nations yesterday, this is a story
just as much about politics and tensions in the Pacific
(00:54):
as well as a story about rugby.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Emma, it's always so interesting when sport and politics come together.
Why don't we start with what we need to know
about the diplomatic relationship between Papua New Guinea and Australia.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
So P and G is one of Australia's closest neighbors
literally as in its proximity to the Australian mainland. But also,
you know, we have diplomatic ties with P and G
stretching way back. So we'll start with the early nineteen hundreds.
The southern part of P and G at that time
was actually a territory of Australia. Germany had control over
the northern part, and then in the late nineteen forties
(01:34):
these territories were combined under Australia's control and that lasted
until P and G was granted independence in nineteen seventy five.
But in more recent times, a really big aspect of
the relationship between P ANDG and Australia is our shared
love of rugby league. And that's where my geopolitical analysis
(01:55):
is going to pause because we need your exertse George.
Of course, as tda's sports.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Journalist, well, I love the little history lesson, Emma, appreciate.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
That more where that came from.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
And rugby league is obviously a massive part of Australia's
sporting landscape, but it's also the national sport of Papua
New Guinea. Its national men's team is the Kummels, which
means birds of paradise in one of PNG's national languages.
Top pissin The Kummels have competed in the Rugby League
World Cup alongside Australia and New Zealand, and its national
(02:27):
women's team is called the Orchards who play Australia's Jillarus
in the Pacific Championships.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Okay, so the p and rugby league players at that
elite level and no stranger to the best of the
Aussie and kiwi's. Given that relationship, how did we get
to the stage of Papua New Guinea and Australia holding
talks about reshaping the NRL to make space for a
p AND team.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Well, as we know, sport is a business and the
NRL wants to grow, wants to get bigger, and this
is just part of the NRL's expansion plan. So in
twenty twenty three it expanded from sixteen to seventeen clubs
with the inclusion of the Redcliffe Dolphins who are from Queensland.
And then the NRL's expansion to PNG is a more
ambitious goal. It's been supported by the government and it's
(03:12):
been in talks for a little while. So during a
visit to p and G last year, Federal Minister for
the Pacific Pat Conroy said the government has an earnest
desire to deliver a rugby league team in Papua New Guinea.
He announced a five point five million dollar fund to
help PNG build its case to join the NRL, to
support player pathways, to encourage young people's involvement in the
(03:35):
game and the growth of the NRLW as well, which
is the women's game. Yep.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
So, as you mentioned sport being a business, I guess
the idea would be, then when you've got these player pathways,
when you're developing the kind of grassroots contact that young
people in P and G might have with the game,
that's ultimately going to lead to more success for the
NRL as a whole. Now you mentioned this is a
conversation that's been going on for a little while, but
(04:00):
I wanted to talk a bit more about the political
context that it's been developing alongside so P and GSPM
said last year that rugby league has strengthened the diplomatic
ties between P and G and Australia. The Prime Minister
Anthony Albernezi has made comments throughout the last year that
it's been a discussion point between the two nations that
(04:22):
you know p and G is very passionate about their
rugby league and it makes sense economically diplomatically, and that's
a position that's been adopted by the Coalition as well.
Now that all sounds like healthy diplomacy and friendship between
two countries, but there is another more serious layer here,
I guess, which centers around China and concerns about its
(04:44):
growing influence in the Pacific and territories in the Pacific
that are a short distance from the Australian mainland. So,
for example, we've got the Solomon Islands who signed a
security deal with China in twenty twenty two. Now that
deal included things like an increased presence of Chinese police
in Solomon Islands, and Australia very publicly kind of condemned
(05:06):
that deal and it's stoked concerns of an increased Chinese
presence close to Australia. So since then we've seen Australia
prioritize relations with the Solomons under its own security deal,
deploying police to events like the twenty twenty three Pacific Games,
this year's election there. And obviously Solomon is not pub
New Guinea, but that just is one example to give
(05:29):
you a sense of where the Australian government is at
when it's thinking about its relationships with our Pacific neighbors.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Yeah, so it's not necessarily about just a love for
rugby league here. There's a little bit of underlying politics
where both governments might want to include a team from
Papua New Guinea for reasons that expand beyond the sport exactly.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
And you know, there are similar concerns about P andg's
relationship with China, and this deal is kind of described
as part of this broader strategy from the government to
secure PNG's loyalty as this kind of tension with China
and the South Pacific continues. So you're absolutely right. It's
a deal that you know, may have impacts or geopolitical
(06:14):
benefits that expand really far beyond the realms of the
sporting world. So after months of its seeming like this deal,
George was getting closer to becoming a reality. You know,
we had that diplomatic visit last year, the funding announcement,
more talk more development this year. But those plans came
to life yesterday, right, and we got some firm details.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Yeah, there was basically a long awaited announcement from Albanese
and marape who held a press conference yesterday to announce
a deal for the Pacific nation to join the NRL
in twenty twenty eight. Both leaders talked about the economic
benefit of introducing a P and G team. It's the
most populous nation in the Pacific behind Australia, and much
(06:57):
of the country is in poverty, so the motivation there
to give the country some economic benefit.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
So what has the Australian government actually promised? What are
the bones of this deal?
Speaker 2 (07:10):
The core part of the announcement is a six hundred
million dollar allocation over a ten year period, which is money,
a lot of money. The P ANDNG government announced two
major components to their end of the deal. A pledge
to build accommodation and facilities for the new team and
its players, and all salaries to be tax free, which
may make a move to PNG to join the team
(07:31):
more appealing to star players currently with Australian or New
Zealand teams.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
That's very interesting because I was wondering, you know, is
the angle going to be that the national team from
PNG in the NRAL is you know, focused on PNG
players or will we see a bit of willing and
dealing here across the league.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
I think I've heard talks that they're going to try
and build an all star team, and the NROL wants
to make PNG as attractive as possible for families or
players and their families to relocate from established lives to
another country start again there. Yeah, absolutely, but it's not
all talk of growth, sport and economic prosperity. Other media
(08:07):
have reported that there's a clause that allows the Aussie
government to withdraw from the deal without reason at any
time until twenty thirty five.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Now, these clause actually loops back to what we were
talking about earlier because of that kind of wider security
context at play here. Australia does have a bilateral security
agreement with P and G, and that's something widely seen
as being designed to protect Australia from Chinese interference.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Exactly, and in fact, as part of the NRL deal,
PNG and Australia reportedly signed a separate agreement called a
Strategic Trust. The details of that agreement will remain confidential,
but experts believe it involves further guarantees from PNG that
it will not form closer bonds with China. So it
(08:54):
looks like Australia's ability to withdraw from the deal at
any time could be related to China's present there well.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
So they really will be a lot at stake for
PNG to kind of manage its diplomatic ties with both
China and Australia. Nothing like a bit of sport diplomacy, George.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Yeah, it's amazing. Sport is one of the most powerful
diplomatic tools and we've seen it time and time again
in almost every part of the world. You can find
examples of sport being used as a political tool. In
the nineteen eighties, the president of Pakistan went to India
to watch a test cricket match between the two nations.
It was called cricket diplomacy or cricket for peace. We
(09:35):
saw a similar thing in nineteen ninety five at the
Rugby World Cup where Nelson Mandela brought the nation together
and the rugby team brought the nation together. You may
have seen Invictus starring Matt Damon.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
The famous propby union player Matt Damon.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Or take Saudi Arabia, who yesterday were announced as the
host of the twenty thirty four Fee for World Cup.
They're trying to use the FEFA World Cup and soccer
as a form of diplomacy to improve their world standing.
Some are accusing them of sports washing.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
So that's this idea of Saudi Arabian authorities buying up teams,
hosting events, trying to improve their standing in English speaking countries,
boost tourism by bringing more kind of big ticket stadium
sporting moments to the.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Country exactly, exactly. And of course sport can be used
as a political tool in the other direction. I'm thinking
of examples like banning Russian athletes from competing under their
national flag at the Olympics or in tennis events after
Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
So it's using kind of a political climate or global
contexts through sport to send a message.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Yeah, and sport is a platform where there are a
lot of eyeballs people are watching it, so it can
be a place to make a really political statement.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Okay, So clearly this is a really nuanced and layeredst
a lot more to it than you know. The headlines
might indicate an NRL expansion story on its own. What
happens from here, George, what are the next steps?
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Well, there's also discussions for a Perth team to join
the NRL in twenty twenty seven, and the code has
said that it wants twenty teams by the twenty thirty
two Olympics in Brisbane, so we'd expect to see a
P ANDNG NRL team in twenty twenty eight, either as
the eighteenth or the nineteenth team to join the competition,
and that really depends on the progression of the Perth team.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Fascinating and much to the disappointment of my mum, the
North Sydney Bears not making a comeback.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
No, they won't be the Bears unfortunately.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
George. That was fascinating. Thank you so much for talking
us through that. It's not every day get an opportunity
to kind of chat geopolitics with the sports journalist.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
What's my pleasure? It was a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
If you want to hear more from George and get
his take on all the big sporting moments in the world,
don't forget to sign up to our sports newsletter. It
hits her in box at five pm every weekday. It's
free to sign up. We will pop a link in
the bio.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Thanks for the plug.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
That's all we've got time for today. Thank you so
much for tuning in too. Today's episode. We will be
back later on this evening with the afternoon headlines, but
until then, have a great day.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda
Bungelung Calcuttin woman from Gadighl country. The Daily oz acknowledges
that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the
Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres
Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the
first peoples of these countries, both past and present.
Already and this is the this is the daily This
is the Daily OS. Oh, now it makes sense. Good
morning and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Friday, the
thirteenth of December.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
I'm Emma and I'm George. Yesterday, Prime Minister Anthony Albanezi
and Papa New Guineas Prime Minister James Marape announced Australia's
support for a P and G team to join the
National Rugby League competition from twenty twenty eight.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Rugby league is P and g's national sport, and P
ANDNG deserves a national team. On the surface, this is
a story about expanding one of Australia's most dominant sports
in the Asia Pacific region. But as we heard from
the leaders of both nations yesterday, this is a story
just as much about politics and tensions in the Pacific
(00:54):
as well as a story about rugby.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Emma, it's always so interesting when sport and politics come together.
Why don't we start with what we need to know
about the diplomatic relationship between Papua New Guinea and Australia.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
So P and G is one of Australia's closest neighbors
literally as in its proximity to the Australian mainland. But also,
you know, we have diplomatic ties with P and G
stretching way back. So we'll start with the early nineteen hundreds.
The southern part of P and G at that time
was actually a territory of Australia. Germany had control over
the northern part, and then in the late nineteen forties
(01:34):
these territories were combined under Australia's control and that lasted
until P and G was granted independence in nineteen seventy five.
But in more recent times, a really big aspect of
the relationship between P ANDG and Australia is our shared
love of rugby league. And that's where my geopolitical analysis
(01:55):
is going to pause because we need your exertse George.
Of course, as tda's sports.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Journalist, well, I love the little history lesson, Emma, appreciate.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
That more where that came from.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
And rugby league is obviously a massive part of Australia's
sporting landscape, but it's also the national sport of Papua
New Guinea. Its national men's team is the Kummels, which
means birds of paradise in one of PNG's national languages.
Top pissin The Kummels have competed in the Rugby League
World Cup alongside Australia and New Zealand, and its national
(02:27):
women's team is called the Orchards who play Australia's Jillarus
in the Pacific Championships.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Okay, so the p and rugby league players at that
elite level and no stranger to the best of the
Aussie and kiwi's. Given that relationship, how did we get
to the stage of Papua New Guinea and Australia holding
talks about reshaping the NRL to make space for a
p AND team.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Well, as we know, sport is a business and the
NRL wants to grow, wants to get bigger, and this
is just part of the NRL's expansion plan. So in
twenty twenty three it expanded from sixteen to seventeen clubs
with the inclusion of the Redcliffe Dolphins who are from Queensland.
And then the NRL's expansion to PNG is a more
ambitious goal. It's been supported by the government and it's
(03:12):
been in talks for a little while. So during a
visit to p and G last year, Federal Minister for
the Pacific Pat Conroy said the government has an earnest
desire to deliver a rugby league team in Papua New Guinea.
He announced a five point five million dollar fund to
help PNG build its case to join the NRL, to
support player pathways, to encourage young people's involvement in the
(03:35):
game and the growth of the NRLW as well, which
is the women's game. Yep.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
So, as you mentioned sport being a business, I guess
the idea would be, then when you've got these player pathways,
when you're developing the kind of grassroots contact that young
people in P and G might have with the game,
that's ultimately going to lead to more success for the
NRL as a whole. Now you mentioned this is a
conversation that's been going on for a little while, but
(04:00):
I wanted to talk a bit more about the political
context that it's been developing alongside so P and GSPM
said last year that rugby league has strengthened the diplomatic
ties between P and G and Australia. The Prime Minister
Anthony Albernezi has made comments throughout the last year that
it's been a discussion point between the two nations that
(04:22):
you know p and G is very passionate about their
rugby league and it makes sense economically diplomatically, and that's
a position that's been adopted by the Coalition as well.
Now that all sounds like healthy diplomacy and friendship between
two countries, but there is another more serious layer here,
I guess, which centers around China and concerns about its
(04:44):
growing influence in the Pacific and territories in the Pacific
that are a short distance from the Australian mainland. So,
for example, we've got the Solomon Islands who signed a
security deal with China in twenty twenty two. Now that
deal included things like an increased presence of Chinese police
in Solomon Islands, and Australia very publicly kind of condemned
(05:06):
that deal and it's stoked concerns of an increased Chinese
presence close to Australia. So since then we've seen Australia
prioritize relations with the Solomons under its own security deal,
deploying police to events like the twenty twenty three Pacific Games,
this year's election there. And obviously Solomon is not pub
New Guinea, but that just is one example to give
(05:29):
you a sense of where the Australian government is at
when it's thinking about its relationships with our Pacific neighbors.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Yeah, so it's not necessarily about just a love for
rugby league here. There's a little bit of underlying politics
where both governments might want to include a team from
Papua New Guinea for reasons that expand beyond the sport exactly.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
And you know, there are similar concerns about P andg's
relationship with China, and this deal is kind of described
as part of this broader strategy from the government to
secure PNG's loyalty as this kind of tension with China
and the South Pacific continues. So you're absolutely right. It's
a deal that you know, may have impacts or geopolitical
(06:14):
benefits that expand really far beyond the realms of the
sporting world. So after months of its seeming like this deal,
George was getting closer to becoming a reality. You know,
we had that diplomatic visit last year, the funding announcement,
more talk more development this year. But those plans came
to life yesterday, right, and we got some firm details.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Yeah, there was basically a long awaited announcement from Albanese
and marape who held a press conference yesterday to announce
a deal for the Pacific nation to join the NRL
in twenty twenty eight. Both leaders talked about the economic
benefit of introducing a P and G team. It's the
most populous nation in the Pacific behind Australia, and much
(06:57):
of the country is in poverty, so the motivation there
to give the country some economic benefit.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
So what has the Australian government actually promised? What are
the bones of this deal?
Speaker 2 (07:10):
The core part of the announcement is a six hundred
million dollar allocation over a ten year period, which is money,
a lot of money. The P ANDNG government announced two
major components to their end of the deal. A pledge
to build accommodation and facilities for the new team and
its players, and all salaries to be tax free, which
may make a move to PNG to join the team
(07:31):
more appealing to star players currently with Australian or New
Zealand teams.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
That's very interesting because I was wondering, you know, is
the angle going to be that the national team from
PNG in the NRAL is you know, focused on PNG
players or will we see a bit of willing and
dealing here across the league.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
I think I've heard talks that they're going to try
and build an all star team, and the NROL wants
to make PNG as attractive as possible for families or
players and their families to relocate from established lives to
another country start again there. Yeah, absolutely, but it's not
all talk of growth, sport and economic prosperity. Other media
(08:07):
have reported that there's a clause that allows the Aussie
government to withdraw from the deal without reason at any
time until twenty thirty five.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Now, these clause actually loops back to what we were
talking about earlier because of that kind of wider security
context at play here. Australia does have a bilateral security
agreement with P and G, and that's something widely seen
as being designed to protect Australia from Chinese interference.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Exactly, and in fact, as part of the NRL deal,
PNG and Australia reportedly signed a separate agreement called a
Strategic Trust. The details of that agreement will remain confidential,
but experts believe it involves further guarantees from PNG that
it will not form closer bonds with China. So it
(08:54):
looks like Australia's ability to withdraw from the deal at
any time could be related to China's present there well.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
So they really will be a lot at stake for
PNG to kind of manage its diplomatic ties with both
China and Australia. Nothing like a bit of sport diplomacy, George.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Yeah, it's amazing. Sport is one of the most powerful
diplomatic tools and we've seen it time and time again
in almost every part of the world. You can find
examples of sport being used as a political tool. In
the nineteen eighties, the president of Pakistan went to India
to watch a test cricket match between the two nations.
It was called cricket diplomacy or cricket for peace. We
(09:35):
saw a similar thing in nineteen ninety five at the
Rugby World Cup where Nelson Mandela brought the nation together
and the rugby team brought the nation together. You may
have seen Invictus starring Matt Damon.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
The famous propby union player Matt Damon.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Or take Saudi Arabia, who yesterday were announced as the
host of the twenty thirty four Fee for World Cup.
They're trying to use the FEFA World Cup and soccer
as a form of diplomacy to improve their world standing.
Some are accusing them of sports washing.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
So that's this idea of Saudi Arabian authorities buying up teams,
hosting events, trying to improve their standing in English speaking countries,
boost tourism by bringing more kind of big ticket stadium
sporting moments to the.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Country exactly, exactly. And of course sport can be used
as a political tool in the other direction. I'm thinking
of examples like banning Russian athletes from competing under their
national flag at the Olympics or in tennis events after
Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
So it's using kind of a political climate or global
contexts through sport to send a message.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Yeah, and sport is a platform where there are a
lot of eyeballs people are watching it, so it can
be a place to make a really political statement.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Okay, So clearly this is a really nuanced and layeredst
a lot more to it than you know. The headlines
might indicate an NRL expansion story on its own. What
happens from here, George, what are the next steps?
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Well, there's also discussions for a Perth team to join
the NRL in twenty twenty seven, and the code has
said that it wants twenty teams by the twenty thirty
two Olympics in Brisbane, so we'd expect to see a
P ANDNG NRL team in twenty twenty eight, either as
the eighteenth or the nineteenth team to join the competition,
and that really depends on the progression of the Perth team.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Fascinating and much to the disappointment of my mum, the
North Sydney Bears not making a comeback.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
No, they won't be the Bears unfortunately.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
George. That was fascinating. Thank you so much for talking
us through that. It's not every day get an opportunity
to kind of chat geopolitics with the sports journalist.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
What's my pleasure? It was a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
If you want to hear more from George and get
his take on all the big sporting moments in the world,
don't forget to sign up to our sports newsletter. It
hits her in box at five pm every weekday. It's
free to sign up. We will pop a link in
the bio.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Thanks for the plug.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
That's all we've got time for today. Thank you so
much for tuning in too. Today's episode. We will be
back later on this evening with the afternoon headlines, but
until then, have a great day.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda
Bungelung Calcuttin woman from Gadighl country. The Daily oz acknowledges
that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the
Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres
Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the
first peoples of these countries, both past and present.
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