July 3, 2025 • 13 mins
What does it take to be considered cool? According to science there are exactly six traits.
Today, we’re going to take you through what scientists learned after examining almost 6,000 people across 13 countries to figure out the difference between being cool and being good - and they’re not the same thing at all.
Hosts: Billi FitzSimons and Sam Koslowski
Producer: Orla Maher
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Already, and this is the Daily This is the Daily OS.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Oh, now it makes sense.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
Good morning, and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Friday,
the fourth of July. I'm Sam Kazlowski.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
I'm Billy fit Simon's and I'm definitely not cool enough
to be doing this podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Hey, come on, we haven't even gotten into it yet,
but yes, as I find out, that's exactly what's happening, Billy.
What's cooler than being cool? No, it's not ice cold?
Is it telling bad Joe? Something like that? But we
do know how to answer that question a little bit
better now than we did a couple of months ago,
thanks to some fascinating new research that's basically cracked the
(00:45):
code on what makes someone cool. So today we're going
to take you through what scientists learned after examining almost
six thousand people across thirteen countries as they endeavored to
figure out the difference between being cool and being good
and then not the same thing.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Sam, I think we should say from the outset that
this isn't the typical kind of TDA explainer. But it
is a Friday, and it has been two weeks or
even more of a pretty heavy news cycle. And so
we thought it's a perfect time to do something a
little bit different.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
And in terms of you know, the thoughts that we
always go through is who can explain this the best
because they know the most about the topic. So sensibly
was that it should be me explaining the cool factor.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
And I hope that arrogance is right up there with
what makes someone cool not too far away. Okay, So
before we get into what this study found, do you
want to walk us through how they actually the scientists
who did this, How did they actually go about determining
what makes someone cool or not? Because it's such an
intangible or subjective thing to assess.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
You would think, so they've managed to really boil it down.
So their researchers from Chile and the US, and they
surveyed almost six thousand people across thirteen countries, including Australia.
As they didn't ask people to rate celebrities or influences,
that was my first thought was who are the coolest
people you know? Instead, they asked them to think of
someone they personally knew who was either cool, not cool,
(02:16):
good or not good. Then they rated that person on
fifteen different personality traits and values using psychology scales that
are already in use, and they've kind of brought all
of that data together to make a recipe for cool.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
That's so interesting. Did they find that different cultures had
different ideas of what makes someone cool?
Speaker 3 (02:37):
I mean, even you and I have different ideas about
what makes someone cool. Because you said the word arrogant before,
I really don't quite understand why you said that. Look,
the research is exactly expected there to be this massive
cultural and global difference, and that's why they deliberately chose
countries from six different continents with really different cultural values.
So they picked some countries that they described as having individual,
(03:00):
dualistic cultures, like Australia and the US, versus what they
described as more collective cultures like China and South Korea.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Can you explain that more, because I would say that
Australia and the US I don't know if I would
describe them as individual cultures.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
Well, the basic rule that they've used here is whether
it's a highly capitalist society and everybody's kind of pursuing
success individually and trying to make as much money as
they can and get far ahead. I see.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
So that's Australia and US exactly or you've got cultures
that have more kind of communist or socialist structures in government,
different ways that they structure their taxation systems or schools
or health, all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
But the cool thing here, get it, I get it
is that the results across the world were almost identical.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
That's so interesting. So kind of found that exactly what
makes someone cool in Australia is very similar to what
makes someone cool in China.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Exactly. There are the same character traits of cool people
all over the world, and they basically boiled it down
to six key traits.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
So this is the key headline. These are the six
traits that if you carry these traits, then you're certified cool.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
I want everyone to think of themselves in their mind
and be ticking things off as I read them out. Okay,
be more extroverted, hedonistic, powerful, adventurous, open minded, and autonomous.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
That's quite the mix.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
And the researchers said the pattern was so consistent that
they could not find cases in which certain regions showed
a systematically different pattern.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Wow, that's so interesting.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
It's so interesting.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Okay, let's go through each of those characteristics.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Okay, so extroverted basically means that they're outgoing, they speak up,
they project energy and excitement. Hedonistic means they seek out
pleasure and enjoyment. They're the ones suggesting a spontaneous road
trip or trying a weird, new, different flavor of ice cream,
and it's kind of.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Like they seek out that pleasure over something like pain.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
And over something that they're really familiar with as well.
And powerful means they've got influence and command attention, not
necessarily through a position of authority or some that they
are given, but through their presence and through them kind
of pushing into rooms they're not meant to be in.
Adventurous is about pursuing novelty and taking calculated risks. Open
(05:11):
means their receptive to new ideas and experiences. And autonomous,
which I think is a really big one, means they
do things their way without asking for permission, and they're
very self directed. So yeah, it's basically me.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Haha, they are basically some more than others. I would say,
you've got the autonomous one ticked off.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
When I think of you, I think of autonomous.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
So everyone listening, what Billy means is that I tend
to just go a bit rogue.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
But that's okay. We're working on it, aren't we. We are,
thank you so much, okay. And then earlier you said
that this research wasn't only looking at what makes someone cool,
It also looked at what makes a good person. And
they're different, and they are different. What did What were
the traits of someone who is good?
Speaker 3 (05:55):
So a good person was rated as more conforming, traditional, secure,
a warm, agreeable, caring about everyone, equally, conscientious and calm. So,
if you think about it, cool people are the ones
who break the rules, who seek new experiences, and who
challenge authority. And good people are the ones who follow
social norms. They're caring for other people, and they maintain stability.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
And does this differ at all between generations?
Speaker 3 (06:21):
It does. So baby boomers defined cool as just pure rebellion.
Gen X was worried about working hard and playing hard,
and more of that adventurous streak coming through. Millennials prioritized
experiences and social consciousness, so standing up for what you
believe in. And gen Z has made authenticity a really
central aspect of coolness. So for gen Z, being genuine
(06:44):
about your struggles and values is actually cooler than just
being rebellious for the sake of being rebellious.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
That's so interesting. I wonder how much of social media
and kind of how curated everyone's life became with the
rise of social media has then played into now kind
of the opposite of that authenticity.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
Well, I was really thinking about influences a lot during
that part of the research. The report didn't address influences directly,
but I'm cool, So here's my take on it. Aha,
social media has basically become a coolness competition in that way.
And if we think about those traits that the research
says make someone cool, so adventurous, autonomous, open to new experiences,
that's the content that does really well on social media.
(07:25):
And there's also, though, this tension because gen z really
values that authentic streak and they can spot when somebody's
trying too hard to be cool versus when somebody's really
embodying the traits.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Yes, I feel like you can. I know exactly what
you are talking about, but it's kind of hard to
talk about without sounding mean because it sounds mean saying
that you can think of someone who tries too hard
to be cool.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
We feel like a bit kind of what the research
was outlining is that it needs to be a natural
streak rather than a forced effort.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Where did this whole concept of being cool even come from?
Speaker 3 (08:00):
I was so interested in this part of the research.
They traced the historic origins of the word cool, and
they traced it back to African American jazz culture in
the forties, where musicians used it to describe someone who was,
in their words, emotionally restrained but also rebellious and creative.
And then they say by the sixties it had spread
(08:20):
to youth counterculture across the US, and according to the research,
even in countries with completely different alphabets and languages like
South Korea Turkey, people use the English word for cool
and pronounce it similarly to how you say it in English.
So it's maintained this kind of global meaning, but also
this global language aspect of it too. Super interesting.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
So it started in jazz clubs and it's kind of
gone everywhere. This might be a silly questions, No silly questions, haha,
But why do you think that we care so much
about being cool? Is it just because we equate it
to be light?
Speaker 3 (09:01):
Well, researchers say that it serves a really important social function,
and we look to cool people to be cultural innovators.
They're the ones who are pushing boundaries. They're creating new trends,
they're creating new art or music or film. They're driving
society forward. And in economies that really rely on creativity
(09:23):
and innovation, coolness has kind of become this status where
people who take risks and who drive change are really
rewarded for that.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
So this idea that kind of innovators or risk takers
are more in the cool basket.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Yeah, which we shouldn't take for granted. I mean, that's
kind of a cultural decision we've made to.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Although that's not one of the six traits.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
Well it's not directly, but the idea of being adventurous,
or being outside the norms, or being confident and outspoken,
all of those kind of lend themselves to creation of
new things.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Okay, And I guess when I'm hearing this, one thing
that I'm wondering is I get what researchers are saying
is a cool person and what they are saying is
a good person. And I feel like they're kind of
saying that those are two different things. Yeah, but can
you be cool and good?
Speaker 3 (10:14):
Well, the research says that you can be both. Some
people are both, but there's particular issues that arise when
the two conflict. And so what they mean by that
is there's this quote. It says to be seen as cool,
someone usually needs to be somewhat likable or admirable, which
makes them similar to good people. However, cool people often
(10:35):
have other traits that aren't necessarily considered good in a
moral sense. So if you think about like an antihero
on film or TV, they're not seen as cool because
they're conventionally good. There might be, you know, somebody who's
in prison for something terrible that they've done. We think
they are really cool character, but they've committed a crime,
and a good person wouldn't have committed a crime because
(10:56):
they're conforming traditional, followed the rules. So I actually thought
about tech bros, like the really big kind of tech
leaders of our world. They're considered cool by a lot
of these metrics. I don't know if they're considered good though. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Interesting. Okay, Sam, before we go, do you have anyone
specifically who you think really embodies these characteristics? Because I
have two in mind, can you.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Go first to give me a sector? Think, who do
you think is cool?
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Okay, of these traits, I think my answers are really basic, just.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
A wanting okay, Rihanna interesting.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
I think that she's got the autonomy, she has, the powerful,
the adventurous, the hedonistic, like kind of going with pleasure,
you know. She I feel like she hasn't put out
music in a while. She's kind of just choosing to
kind of take a step back, although she does have
the makeup company. But anyway, I think she's very cool
based on these traits and Harry styles so basic, but they're.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
Great examples I think universally known cool people. Yeah, that's fantastic.
I can't really, I guess just things keep coming back
to me. Sad just keeps coming back to I think
I'm the coolest person I know. And you know what's
interesting about it, though, is that I'm constantly teasing the
office for not being cool. Who is every drop the handle?
(12:15):
Every day there's you know that's not cool to weare
and you're you have glasses and an asthma puffer.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Sam, You're you're making yourself the victim and that's not cool.
Maybe hah Okay, I think we will end it there.
You are very cool, and I'll make sure that when
we get out of the studio that everyone tells you
how cool you are.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
What's cool of me? Cool? You guys listening at home?
A beautiful weekend, everybody. We're going to be back in
the afternoon with some headlines. Until then, have a great date.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Wait before we go, you haven't said anything about whether
or not you think I'm cool.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
I think you're good.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
What My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud
Arunda Bungelung Kalkotin woman from gradigal Con. The Daily oz
acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on the lands of
the Gadigal people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and
Torrestrate island and nations. We pay our respects to the
(13:11):
first peoples of these countries, both past and present.
Already, and this is the Daily This is the Daily OS.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Oh, now it makes sense.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
Good morning, and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Friday,
the fourth of July. I'm Sam Kazlowski.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
I'm Billy fit Simon's and I'm definitely not cool enough
to be doing this podcast.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Hey, come on, we haven't even gotten into it yet,
but yes, as I find out, that's exactly what's happening, Billy.
What's cooler than being cool? No, it's not ice cold?
Is it telling bad Joe? Something like that? But we
do know how to answer that question a little bit
better now than we did a couple of months ago,
thanks to some fascinating new research that's basically cracked the
(00:45):
code on what makes someone cool. So today we're going
to take you through what scientists learned after examining almost
six thousand people across thirteen countries as they endeavored to
figure out the difference between being cool and being good
and then not the same thing.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Sam, I think we should say from the outset that
this isn't the typical kind of TDA explainer. But it
is a Friday, and it has been two weeks or
even more of a pretty heavy news cycle. And so
we thought it's a perfect time to do something a
little bit different.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
And in terms of you know, the thoughts that we
always go through is who can explain this the best
because they know the most about the topic. So sensibly
was that it should be me explaining the cool factor.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
And I hope that arrogance is right up there with
what makes someone cool not too far away. Okay, So
before we get into what this study found, do you
want to walk us through how they actually the scientists
who did this, How did they actually go about determining
what makes someone cool or not? Because it's such an
intangible or subjective thing to assess.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
You would think, so they've managed to really boil it down.
So their researchers from Chile and the US, and they
surveyed almost six thousand people across thirteen countries, including Australia.
As they didn't ask people to rate celebrities or influences,
that was my first thought was who are the coolest
people you know? Instead, they asked them to think of
someone they personally knew who was either cool, not cool,
(02:16):
good or not good. Then they rated that person on
fifteen different personality traits and values using psychology scales that
are already in use, and they've kind of brought all
of that data together to make a recipe for cool.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
That's so interesting. Did they find that different cultures had
different ideas of what makes someone cool?
Speaker 3 (02:37):
I mean, even you and I have different ideas about
what makes someone cool. Because you said the word arrogant before,
I really don't quite understand why you said that. Look,
the research is exactly expected there to be this massive
cultural and global difference, and that's why they deliberately chose
countries from six different continents with really different cultural values.
So they picked some countries that they described as having individual,
(03:00):
dualistic cultures, like Australia and the US, versus what they
described as more collective cultures like China and South Korea.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Can you explain that more, because I would say that
Australia and the US I don't know if I would
describe them as individual cultures.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
Well, the basic rule that they've used here is whether
it's a highly capitalist society and everybody's kind of pursuing
success individually and trying to make as much money as
they can and get far ahead. I see.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
So that's Australia and US exactly or you've got cultures
that have more kind of communist or socialist structures in government,
different ways that they structure their taxation systems or schools
or health, all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
But the cool thing here, get it, I get it
is that the results across the world were almost identical.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
That's so interesting. So kind of found that exactly what
makes someone cool in Australia is very similar to what
makes someone cool in China.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Exactly. There are the same character traits of cool people
all over the world, and they basically boiled it down
to six key traits.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
So this is the key headline. These are the six
traits that if you carry these traits, then you're certified cool.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
I want everyone to think of themselves in their mind
and be ticking things off as I read them out. Okay,
be more extroverted, hedonistic, powerful, adventurous, open minded, and autonomous.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
That's quite the mix.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
And the researchers said the pattern was so consistent that
they could not find cases in which certain regions showed
a systematically different pattern.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Wow, that's so interesting.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
It's so interesting.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Okay, let's go through each of those characteristics.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Okay, so extroverted basically means that they're outgoing, they speak up,
they project energy and excitement. Hedonistic means they seek out
pleasure and enjoyment. They're the ones suggesting a spontaneous road
trip or trying a weird, new, different flavor of ice cream,
and it's kind of.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Like they seek out that pleasure over something like pain.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
And over something that they're really familiar with as well.
And powerful means they've got influence and command attention, not
necessarily through a position of authority or some that they
are given, but through their presence and through them kind
of pushing into rooms they're not meant to be in.
Adventurous is about pursuing novelty and taking calculated risks. Open
(05:11):
means their receptive to new ideas and experiences. And autonomous,
which I think is a really big one, means they
do things their way without asking for permission, and they're
very self directed. So yeah, it's basically me.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Haha, they are basically some more than others. I would say,
you've got the autonomous one ticked off.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
When I think of you, I think of autonomous.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
So everyone listening, what Billy means is that I tend
to just go a bit rogue.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
But that's okay. We're working on it, aren't we. We are,
thank you so much, okay. And then earlier you said
that this research wasn't only looking at what makes someone cool,
It also looked at what makes a good person. And
they're different, and they are different. What did What were
the traits of someone who is good?
Speaker 3 (05:55):
So a good person was rated as more conforming, traditional, secure,
a warm, agreeable, caring about everyone, equally, conscientious and calm. So,
if you think about it, cool people are the ones
who break the rules, who seek new experiences, and who
challenge authority. And good people are the ones who follow
social norms. They're caring for other people, and they maintain stability.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
And does this differ at all between generations?
Speaker 3 (06:21):
It does. So baby boomers defined cool as just pure rebellion.
Gen X was worried about working hard and playing hard,
and more of that adventurous streak coming through. Millennials prioritized
experiences and social consciousness, so standing up for what you
believe in. And gen Z has made authenticity a really
central aspect of coolness. So for gen Z, being genuine
(06:44):
about your struggles and values is actually cooler than just
being rebellious for the sake of being rebellious.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
That's so interesting. I wonder how much of social media
and kind of how curated everyone's life became with the
rise of social media has then played into now kind
of the opposite of that authenticity.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
Well, I was really thinking about influences a lot during
that part of the research. The report didn't address influences directly,
but I'm cool, So here's my take on it. Aha,
social media has basically become a coolness competition in that way.
And if we think about those traits that the research
says make someone cool, so adventurous, autonomous, open to new experiences,
that's the content that does really well on social media.
(07:25):
And there's also, though, this tension because gen z really
values that authentic streak and they can spot when somebody's
trying too hard to be cool versus when somebody's really
embodying the traits.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Yes, I feel like you can. I know exactly what
you are talking about, but it's kind of hard to
talk about without sounding mean because it sounds mean saying
that you can think of someone who tries too hard
to be cool.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
We feel like a bit kind of what the research
was outlining is that it needs to be a natural
streak rather than a forced effort.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Where did this whole concept of being cool even come from?
Speaker 3 (08:00):
I was so interested in this part of the research.
They traced the historic origins of the word cool, and
they traced it back to African American jazz culture in
the forties, where musicians used it to describe someone who was,
in their words, emotionally restrained but also rebellious and creative.
And then they say by the sixties it had spread
(08:20):
to youth counterculture across the US, and according to the research,
even in countries with completely different alphabets and languages like
South Korea Turkey, people use the English word for cool
and pronounce it similarly to how you say it in English.
So it's maintained this kind of global meaning, but also
this global language aspect of it too. Super interesting.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
So it started in jazz clubs and it's kind of
gone everywhere. This might be a silly questions, No silly questions, haha,
But why do you think that we care so much
about being cool? Is it just because we equate it
to be light?
Speaker 3 (09:01):
Well, researchers say that it serves a really important social function,
and we look to cool people to be cultural innovators.
They're the ones who are pushing boundaries. They're creating new trends,
they're creating new art or music or film. They're driving
society forward. And in economies that really rely on creativity
(09:23):
and innovation, coolness has kind of become this status where
people who take risks and who drive change are really
rewarded for that.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
So this idea that kind of innovators or risk takers
are more in the cool basket.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Yeah, which we shouldn't take for granted. I mean, that's
kind of a cultural decision we've made to.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Although that's not one of the six traits.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
Well it's not directly, but the idea of being adventurous,
or being outside the norms, or being confident and outspoken,
all of those kind of lend themselves to creation of
new things.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Okay, And I guess when I'm hearing this, one thing
that I'm wondering is I get what researchers are saying
is a cool person and what they are saying is
a good person. And I feel like they're kind of
saying that those are two different things. Yeah, but can
you be cool and good?
Speaker 3 (10:14):
Well, the research says that you can be both. Some
people are both, but there's particular issues that arise when
the two conflict. And so what they mean by that
is there's this quote. It says to be seen as cool,
someone usually needs to be somewhat likable or admirable, which
makes them similar to good people. However, cool people often
(10:35):
have other traits that aren't necessarily considered good in a
moral sense. So if you think about like an antihero
on film or TV, they're not seen as cool because
they're conventionally good. There might be, you know, somebody who's
in prison for something terrible that they've done. We think
they are really cool character, but they've committed a crime,
and a good person wouldn't have committed a crime because
(10:56):
they're conforming traditional, followed the rules. So I actually thought
about tech bros, like the really big kind of tech
leaders of our world. They're considered cool by a lot
of these metrics. I don't know if they're considered good though. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Interesting. Okay, Sam, before we go, do you have anyone
specifically who you think really embodies these characteristics? Because I
have two in mind, can you.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Go first to give me a sector? Think, who do
you think is cool?
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Okay, of these traits, I think my answers are really basic, just.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
A wanting okay, Rihanna interesting.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
I think that she's got the autonomy, she has, the powerful,
the adventurous, the hedonistic, like kind of going with pleasure,
you know. She I feel like she hasn't put out
music in a while. She's kind of just choosing to
kind of take a step back, although she does have
the makeup company. But anyway, I think she's very cool
based on these traits and Harry styles so basic, but they're.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
Great examples I think universally known cool people. Yeah, that's fantastic.
I can't really, I guess just things keep coming back
to me. Sad just keeps coming back to I think
I'm the coolest person I know. And you know what's
interesting about it, though, is that I'm constantly teasing the
office for not being cool. Who is every drop the handle?
(12:15):
Every day there's you know that's not cool to weare
and you're you have glasses and an asthma puffer.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Sam, You're you're making yourself the victim and that's not cool.
Maybe hah Okay, I think we will end it there.
You are very cool, and I'll make sure that when
we get out of the studio that everyone tells you
how cool you are.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
What's cool of me? Cool? You guys listening at home?
A beautiful weekend, everybody. We're going to be back in
the afternoon with some headlines. Until then, have a great date.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Wait before we go, you haven't said anything about whether
or not you think I'm cool.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
I think you're good.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
What My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud
Arunda Bungelung Kalkotin woman from gradigal Con. The Daily oz
acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on the lands of
the Gadigal people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and
Torrestrate island and nations. We pay our respects to the
(13:11):
first peoples of these countries, both past and present.
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