July 29, 2025 • 13 mins
Former Nationals leader Barnaby Joyce has this week introduced a bill to scrap Australia's legal commitment to reach net zero emissions by 2050. And that move has exposed deep divisions within the Coalition over their climate policy.
Joyce's push comes as Liberal branches in Western Australia and South Australia have voted to abandon net zero commitments.
This all comes against the backdrop of a visit from the UN’s top climate diplomat, who’s in the country urging Australian officials to set ambitious climate targets.
Today we're unpacking the debate over net zero and what this means for the Coalition's climate stance.
Hosts: Emma Gillespie and Billi FitzSimons
Producer: Orla Maher
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Already and this is the Daily This is the Daily OS. Oh,
now it makes sense.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Good morning and welcome to the Daily oas it's Wednesday,
the thirtieth of July.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
I'm Emma Gillespie, I'm Billy fitz Simon's.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
In case you missed it, the Coalition is divided over
net zero. Former Nationals leader Barnaby Joyce has this week
introduced a bill to scrap Australia's legal commitment to reach
net zero emissions by twenty fifty and that move has
exposed some pretty deep divisions within the Coalition, who are
now split over their climate policy. Joyce's push comes as
(00:45):
Liberal branches in Western Australia and South Australia vote to
abandon net zero commitments, disagreeing with other parts of the
Liberal Party who want progressive climate goals. Now, this all
comes against the backdrop of a visit from the UN's
top climate diplomat, who is in the country this week,
urging Australian officials to set more ambitious climate targets. Today,
(01:08):
we are going to unpack the debate over net zero
and what all of this means for the Coalition. It's
climate stance and Australia's climate goals.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
More broadly, I have so many questions over this, but
before you explain it all to us, here is a
quick message from today's sponsor, and I want to start
with the basics. So, as you said today, we are
talking about the coalition's disagreements about net zero and this
all started with Barnaby Joyce introducing this private member's bill.
(01:38):
Just for anyone who might not be familiar with him,
or who might need a refresher, who is Barnaby Joyce?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Okay, So Barnaby Joyce is a National's Party MP. So
the Nationals forms the coalition with the Liberal Party. But
you might be familiar with Barnaby Joyce because he used
to be the leader of the National Party. He's also
a fairly prominent character, I would say in Australian politics.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Yeah, there have been a few high profile incidents that
have involved him that have meant that he's kind of
gained this national prominence that perhaps not all National MPs
or national leaders.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Even get exactly. But Barnaby Joyce is no longer the
leader of the National's Party. He is still an MP though,
so he's the Member for New England, which is a
really large electorate in Country New South Wales that covers
towns including Tamworth and Armadale, and Barnaby Joyce really kind
of platforms himself as a leader for Australia's regional communities.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Yes, and so he has introduced this bill.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
What is it that's the million dollar question?
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Really?
Speaker 2 (02:42):
On Monday, Barnaby Joyce introduced what's known as a private
member's bill to the House of Representatives. Now, a private
member's bill is basically a draft law that isn't introduced
by someone in government, which, as you mentioned, Joyce is not.
He is part of the opposition. So if an opposition
MP wants to table a proposed piece of legislation, that's
(03:03):
known as a private member's bill. Now that is exactly
what Barnaby Joyce has done. He's introduced a bill that
would repeal the law binding Australia to reach net zero
emissions by twenty fifty. So basically he's proposing a plan
to scrap net zero and other related measures, including what's
known as the Net Zero Economy Authority that is an
(03:24):
independent body tasked with helping workers transition into low emissions
industries from the kind of traditional fossil fuels sector etc.
In a speech to Parliament tabling this legislation, Joyce said
that Australians are being done over by net zero energy policies.
To use his words, he argued that, quote net zero
(03:45):
is going to have absolutely no effect on the climate whatsoever.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Okay, before we go any further, do you want to
just explain to us what exactly is net zero? Yes?
Speaker 2 (03:55):
So, net zero is an abbreviation for net zero green
house gas emissions, and it's a concept or a target
that basically refers to balancing the amount of greenhouse gases
we produce with the amount we take out of the atmosphere.
So a goal that there will not be more emissions
created by industries like fossil fuels than the climate targets
(04:20):
or efforts to remove those emissions from the atmosphere. Yeap.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
When someone first described net zero to me, they said,
imagine a bath that is kind of at its brim,
and so for every bit of water that you want
to add to the bath, you have to take some
out in order to make space for the new water.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Interesting, that's a good one.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Yeah, that really helped me. That really helped me understand
net zero. That you have to take out as much
as you put in so that there's no more overflowing.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
It's a balancing action. So in the Albanese Labor government's
first term, they legislated a plan to achieve net zero
greenhouse gas emissions by twenty fifty and the plan is
to do that by transitioning towards renewable energy sources like
wind and solar and away from fossil fuels. The goal
(05:13):
didn't just come out of nowhere, though. This is backed
by UN climate scientists who basically say all countries around
the world need to reduce their emissions faster to limit
global warming to one point five degrees above pre industrial levels.
That's the sort of climate benchmark of making sure temperatures
do not exceed those levels. Going above those levels has
(05:37):
these kind of bigger picture, long term, frankly disastrous consequences.
And we also know that above one point five degrees
of warming has occurred around the world on average for
back to back months, according to the updates that we
get from big climate authorities.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Okay, so we have Labor who legislated this target to
achieve net zero by twenty to fifty. I believe that
was in twenty twenty two. What was the coalition's stance
on that bill at the time.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Well, they did oppose Labour's legislation of net zero by
twenty fifty. But and I think this is an important nuance,
the Coalition did go to the last election, so you'll
remember that wasn't very long ago May this year, pledging
to achieve net zero by twenty fifty. So they opposed
the original legislation, but they went to the most recent
(06:25):
election saying that they will achieve that target. The important
nuance here, I guess, continuing with that, is that the
Coalition had a different proposal for how to get there
compared to labor that included nuclear energy, but they didn't
disagree with the premise of net zero by twenty fifty.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Got it. So both major parties agree that Australia should
achieve net zero by twenty fifty. They just have different
views on how we should get there exactly. But then
this week Barnaby Joyce, who is part of the Coalition,
has introduced this bill to remove Australia's legislative target to
achieve net zero by twenty fifty. How many times have
we said that on the podcast already and so that
(07:08):
gave us a hint that perhaps there's this disagreement within
the coalition about net zero moving forward.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Yeah, and you have to remember this comes after the
coalition had a lot of turmoil in between its historic
election loss and parliament returning. Just this month, the coalition
broke up. You know, we spoke about it here on
this podcast. There were a raft of policy measures that
the Nationals didn't feel they could agree with the Liberals
(07:36):
on and that they wanted to walk away have some
time apart. Nationals leader David Little Proud and Liberal leader
Susan Lee came together to work through that. We have
a coalition back together, back in the forty eighth Parliament.
But it's definitely been a trying time, you could say,
for this major part of Australia's political landscape.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
Yeah, so where does this leave the coalition? Now? Where
does Barnaby Joyce introducing this leave the federal coalition?
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Well, Susan Lee, the Opposition leader, or rather a spokesperson
for her, said that Joyce is entitled to put forward
his private members bill. You know, anyone in the House
of Reps can do that. That's his prerogative. One thing
to note though, is that the Liberal Party is currently
conducting a post election review of all its policies, including
on energy. As I mentioned, trying to understand that significant
(08:27):
defeat at the May III election. And you know, although
I said they did go to the last election committing
to net zero by twenty fifty, they haven't officially said
that they are going to continue with that pledge moving forward.
So their stance on the policy is a little bit
up in the air right now. But a coalition spokesperson
(08:48):
did tell the Daily Os that any new policy from
the Liberal and National Parties would aim to drive down
both power bills and emissions, so they're not suggesting that
they'll abandon climate goals together. But it's a little bit unclear.
Some coalition MPs are backing Barnaby Joyce's push, so that
includes Liberal MP Garth Hamilton who supported scrapping net zero,
(09:10):
but others completely disagree. So we've got Victorian Liberal Senator
Jane Hume who said successive elections had shown Australians have
voted for stronger action on reducing emissions, suggesting that going
the other way would only harm the coalition's results at
the next election.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Got it, So we know that there is some internal
disagreement here and we don't know yet what the official
party position is that still to come. What is Labour's
view on all this?
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Well, the Government has really seized on these developments to
question the opposition's commitment to net zero, to climate change
and climate targets more broadly. So it's worth adding that
you know, Labor does have a really significant majority in
the lower House, in the House of Representatives, so coalition
legislation on climate that Labor disagrees with is going to
(10:00):
be incredibly tough to pass. Prime Minister Anthony Albanesi's office
has pointed out a contradiction from the coalition, saying that
even Peter Dutton, to use his words, backed net zero,
Peter Dutton being of course the former Opposition leader, but
Albanezi said Susan Lee won't back net zero. Climate Minister
(10:21):
Chris Bowen has argued that Barnaby Joyce's bill shows internal
divisions what we've touched on Billy. Bowen told Parliament that quote,
people in rural and regional Australia have the most to
gain from jobs and investments created by net zero, So
Labor is clearly trying to paint this kind of image
of a very fractured coalition that it is divided on
(10:41):
climate policy, and I'm sure that we will be hearing
a lot more of that sentiment from Labor going forward.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
And then just to end, in terms of this private
member's bill that Barnaby Joyce has introduced, I mean, I
think it's fair to say that's not going to pass.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Yeah, it won't have enough support. And if the Coalition
are united on wanting to ditch net zero, not only
does Joyce not have the full support of the Coalition,
but he also needs the support of the Government, which
obviously he doesn't have. That being said, though, you know,
I think that this is a discussion that we'll expect
to hear a lot more of over the next three years,
(11:19):
particularly if the Coalition thinks that less ambitious climate targets
might appeal to more Australian voters. I think the juries
out on that for right now, but there is a
global trend of you know, large democracies take the US
walking back some of their climate targets.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
It's one that we will keep a very close eye on,
as well as all of the different policies that the
Coalition is set to announce I presume within the next
year or so after this review takes place.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Yeah, well exactly. And also I just want to add
that the federal government has to unveil its twenty thirty
five target by September this year. So there is a
lot of policy conversation going on at the moment. There
is a top climate chief from the United Nations here
in Australia right now. His name is Simon Steel and
he is essentially arguing for exactly the opposite of what
(12:09):
Barnaby Joyce is pushing for. So Steele has called these
talks around the government's twenty thirty five target as a
defining moment for Australia. He said that the government has
quote one shot to build a blueprint that protects ossie
workers and businesses by preparing them for a fast changing
global economy. So this is the UN Climate Chief who
(12:31):
also gave an address to business leaders really arguing that
strong climate measures have strong economic rewards. That's kind of
been his big push here this week. So Simon Steele
said that half measures will destroy property in infrastructure, hammer households,
bankrupt regions and punch holes in public budgets. While he
said real action opens the door to real leadership and
(12:52):
big rewards for what he called this ambitious, capable country.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Yet it's a conversation that's definitely going to be here.
Is that a pun. I didn't mean it to be
a pun, but I know that Australia is also bidding
to host COP thirty one, which is the UN Climate
conference that happens every year. They are hoping to host that. Well,
Australia is hoping to post that next that year, So
another one to keep a very close eye on, and
the daly Os will be there every step of the way.
(13:19):
Thanks Am, thank you, Billy, and thank you so much
for listening to this episode of the Daily Os. We'll
be back this afternoon with your evening headlines, but until then,
have a great day. My name is Lily Madden and
I'm a proud Aarunda Bunje lung Kalkutin woman from Gadigol Country.
The daly Oz acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on
(13:41):
the lands of the Gadighl people and pays respect to
all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Island and nations. We pay
our respects to the first peoples of these countries, both
past and present
Already and this is the Daily This is the Daily OS. Oh,
now it makes sense.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Good morning and welcome to the Daily oas it's Wednesday,
the thirtieth of July.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
I'm Emma Gillespie, I'm Billy fitz Simon's.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
In case you missed it, the Coalition is divided over
net zero. Former Nationals leader Barnaby Joyce has this week
introduced a bill to scrap Australia's legal commitment to reach
net zero emissions by twenty fifty and that move has
exposed some pretty deep divisions within the Coalition, who are
now split over their climate policy. Joyce's push comes as
(00:45):
Liberal branches in Western Australia and South Australia vote to
abandon net zero commitments, disagreeing with other parts of the
Liberal Party who want progressive climate goals. Now, this all
comes against the backdrop of a visit from the UN's
top climate diplomat, who is in the country this week,
urging Australian officials to set more ambitious climate targets. Today,
(01:08):
we are going to unpack the debate over net zero
and what all of this means for the Coalition. It's
climate stance and Australia's climate goals.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
More broadly, I have so many questions over this, but
before you explain it all to us, here is a
quick message from today's sponsor, and I want to start
with the basics. So, as you said today, we are
talking about the coalition's disagreements about net zero and this
all started with Barnaby Joyce introducing this private member's bill.
(01:38):
Just for anyone who might not be familiar with him,
or who might need a refresher, who is Barnaby Joyce?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Okay, So Barnaby Joyce is a National's Party MP. So
the Nationals forms the coalition with the Liberal Party. But
you might be familiar with Barnaby Joyce because he used
to be the leader of the National Party. He's also
a fairly prominent character, I would say in Australian politics.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Yeah, there have been a few high profile incidents that
have involved him that have meant that he's kind of
gained this national prominence that perhaps not all National MPs
or national leaders.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Even get exactly. But Barnaby Joyce is no longer the
leader of the National's Party. He is still an MP though,
so he's the Member for New England, which is a
really large electorate in Country New South Wales that covers
towns including Tamworth and Armadale, and Barnaby Joyce really kind
of platforms himself as a leader for Australia's regional communities.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Yes, and so he has introduced this bill.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
What is it that's the million dollar question?
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Really?
Speaker 2 (02:42):
On Monday, Barnaby Joyce introduced what's known as a private
member's bill to the House of Representatives. Now, a private
member's bill is basically a draft law that isn't introduced
by someone in government, which, as you mentioned, Joyce is not.
He is part of the opposition. So if an opposition
MP wants to table a proposed piece of legislation, that's
(03:03):
known as a private member's bill. Now that is exactly
what Barnaby Joyce has done. He's introduced a bill that
would repeal the law binding Australia to reach net zero
emissions by twenty fifty. So basically he's proposing a plan
to scrap net zero and other related measures, including what's
known as the Net Zero Economy Authority that is an
(03:24):
independent body tasked with helping workers transition into low emissions
industries from the kind of traditional fossil fuels sector etc.
In a speech to Parliament tabling this legislation, Joyce said
that Australians are being done over by net zero energy policies.
To use his words, he argued that, quote net zero
(03:45):
is going to have absolutely no effect on the climate whatsoever.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Okay, before we go any further, do you want to
just explain to us what exactly is net zero? Yes?
Speaker 2 (03:55):
So, net zero is an abbreviation for net zero green
house gas emissions, and it's a concept or a target
that basically refers to balancing the amount of greenhouse gases
we produce with the amount we take out of the atmosphere.
So a goal that there will not be more emissions
created by industries like fossil fuels than the climate targets
(04:20):
or efforts to remove those emissions from the atmosphere. Yeap.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
When someone first described net zero to me, they said,
imagine a bath that is kind of at its brim,
and so for every bit of water that you want
to add to the bath, you have to take some
out in order to make space for the new water.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Interesting, that's a good one.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Yeah, that really helped me. That really helped me understand
net zero. That you have to take out as much
as you put in so that there's no more overflowing.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
It's a balancing action. So in the Albanese Labor government's
first term, they legislated a plan to achieve net zero
greenhouse gas emissions by twenty fifty and the plan is
to do that by transitioning towards renewable energy sources like
wind and solar and away from fossil fuels. The goal
(05:13):
didn't just come out of nowhere, though. This is backed
by UN climate scientists who basically say all countries around
the world need to reduce their emissions faster to limit
global warming to one point five degrees above pre industrial levels.
That's the sort of climate benchmark of making sure temperatures
do not exceed those levels. Going above those levels has
(05:37):
these kind of bigger picture, long term, frankly disastrous consequences.
And we also know that above one point five degrees
of warming has occurred around the world on average for
back to back months, according to the updates that we
get from big climate authorities.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Okay, so we have Labor who legislated this target to
achieve net zero by twenty to fifty. I believe that
was in twenty twenty two. What was the coalition's stance
on that bill at the time.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Well, they did oppose Labour's legislation of net zero by
twenty fifty. But and I think this is an important nuance,
the Coalition did go to the last election, so you'll
remember that wasn't very long ago May this year, pledging
to achieve net zero by twenty fifty. So they opposed
the original legislation, but they went to the most recent
(06:25):
election saying that they will achieve that target. The important
nuance here, I guess, continuing with that, is that the
Coalition had a different proposal for how to get there
compared to labor that included nuclear energy, but they didn't
disagree with the premise of net zero by twenty fifty.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Got it. So both major parties agree that Australia should
achieve net zero by twenty fifty. They just have different
views on how we should get there exactly. But then
this week Barnaby Joyce, who is part of the Coalition,
has introduced this bill to remove Australia's legislative target to
achieve net zero by twenty fifty. How many times have
we said that on the podcast already and so that
(07:08):
gave us a hint that perhaps there's this disagreement within
the coalition about net zero moving forward.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Yeah, and you have to remember this comes after the
coalition had a lot of turmoil in between its historic
election loss and parliament returning. Just this month, the coalition
broke up. You know, we spoke about it here on
this podcast. There were a raft of policy measures that
the Nationals didn't feel they could agree with the Liberals
(07:36):
on and that they wanted to walk away have some
time apart. Nationals leader David Little Proud and Liberal leader
Susan Lee came together to work through that. We have
a coalition back together, back in the forty eighth Parliament.
But it's definitely been a trying time, you could say,
for this major part of Australia's political landscape.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
Yeah, so where does this leave the coalition? Now? Where
does Barnaby Joyce introducing this leave the federal coalition?
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Well, Susan Lee, the Opposition leader, or rather a spokesperson
for her, said that Joyce is entitled to put forward
his private members bill. You know, anyone in the House
of Reps can do that. That's his prerogative. One thing
to note though, is that the Liberal Party is currently
conducting a post election review of all its policies, including
on energy. As I mentioned, trying to understand that significant
(08:27):
defeat at the May III election. And you know, although
I said they did go to the last election committing
to net zero by twenty fifty, they haven't officially said
that they are going to continue with that pledge moving forward.
So their stance on the policy is a little bit
up in the air right now. But a coalition spokesperson
(08:48):
did tell the Daily Os that any new policy from
the Liberal and National Parties would aim to drive down
both power bills and emissions, so they're not suggesting that
they'll abandon climate goals together. But it's a little bit unclear.
Some coalition MPs are backing Barnaby Joyce's push, so that
includes Liberal MP Garth Hamilton who supported scrapping net zero,
(09:10):
but others completely disagree. So we've got Victorian Liberal Senator
Jane Hume who said successive elections had shown Australians have
voted for stronger action on reducing emissions, suggesting that going
the other way would only harm the coalition's results at
the next election.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Got it, So we know that there is some internal
disagreement here and we don't know yet what the official
party position is that still to come. What is Labour's
view on all this?
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Well, the Government has really seized on these developments to
question the opposition's commitment to net zero, to climate change
and climate targets more broadly. So it's worth adding that
you know, Labor does have a really significant majority in
the lower House, in the House of Representatives, so coalition
legislation on climate that Labor disagrees with is going to
(10:00):
be incredibly tough to pass. Prime Minister Anthony Albanesi's office
has pointed out a contradiction from the coalition, saying that
even Peter Dutton, to use his words, backed net zero,
Peter Dutton being of course the former Opposition leader, but
Albanezi said Susan Lee won't back net zero. Climate Minister
(10:21):
Chris Bowen has argued that Barnaby Joyce's bill shows internal
divisions what we've touched on Billy. Bowen told Parliament that quote,
people in rural and regional Australia have the most to
gain from jobs and investments created by net zero, So
Labor is clearly trying to paint this kind of image
of a very fractured coalition that it is divided on
(10:41):
climate policy, and I'm sure that we will be hearing
a lot more of that sentiment from Labor going forward.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
And then just to end, in terms of this private
member's bill that Barnaby Joyce has introduced, I mean, I
think it's fair to say that's not going to pass.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Yeah, it won't have enough support. And if the Coalition
are united on wanting to ditch net zero, not only
does Joyce not have the full support of the Coalition,
but he also needs the support of the Government, which
obviously he doesn't have. That being said, though, you know,
I think that this is a discussion that we'll expect
to hear a lot more of over the next three years,
(11:19):
particularly if the Coalition thinks that less ambitious climate targets
might appeal to more Australian voters. I think the juries
out on that for right now, but there is a
global trend of you know, large democracies take the US
walking back some of their climate targets.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
It's one that we will keep a very close eye on,
as well as all of the different policies that the
Coalition is set to announce I presume within the next
year or so after this review takes place.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Yeah, well exactly. And also I just want to add
that the federal government has to unveil its twenty thirty
five target by September this year. So there is a
lot of policy conversation going on at the moment. There
is a top climate chief from the United Nations here
in Australia right now. His name is Simon Steel and
he is essentially arguing for exactly the opposite of what
(12:09):
Barnaby Joyce is pushing for. So Steele has called these
talks around the government's twenty thirty five target as a
defining moment for Australia. He said that the government has
quote one shot to build a blueprint that protects ossie
workers and businesses by preparing them for a fast changing
global economy. So this is the UN Climate Chief who
(12:31):
also gave an address to business leaders really arguing that
strong climate measures have strong economic rewards. That's kind of
been his big push here this week. So Simon Steele
said that half measures will destroy property in infrastructure, hammer households,
bankrupt regions and punch holes in public budgets. While he
said real action opens the door to real leadership and
(12:52):
big rewards for what he called this ambitious, capable country.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Yet it's a conversation that's definitely going to be here.
Is that a pun. I didn't mean it to be
a pun, but I know that Australia is also bidding
to host COP thirty one, which is the UN Climate
conference that happens every year. They are hoping to host that. Well,
Australia is hoping to post that next that year, So
another one to keep a very close eye on, and
the daly Os will be there every step of the way.
(13:19):
Thanks Am, thank you, Billy, and thank you so much
for listening to this episode of the Daily Os. We'll
be back this afternoon with your evening headlines, but until then,
have a great day. My name is Lily Madden and
I'm a proud Aarunda Bunje lung Kalkutin woman from Gadigol Country.
The daly Oz acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on
(13:41):
the lands of the Gadighl people and pays respect to
all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Island and nations. We pay
our respects to the first peoples of these countries, both
past and present
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