November 23, 2024 • 20 mins
Happy Sunday! We are intercepting your podcast feeds mid-weekend to answer all the questions you have about vaping.
Last week, we asked you what you want to know about vaping, and we got hundreds of responses. So today, we're answering your questions! We talk about what is actually in a vape, what we know about the long-term health effects of vaping, and what the current law around vaping is.
This episode is sponsored by the Australian Department of Health and Aged Care, but they have had no editorial influence over the content we are sharing in today’s podcast. Find out more at health.gov.au/vaping.
If you are looking to quit vaping, here are some resources:
You can go to the My QuitBuddy app, which helps you to track your progress and stay motivated.
You can call Quitline on 13 78 48, where you can confidentially speak to a counsellor.
Another option is to speak to a GP or health professional about the best way for you.
Hosts: Billi FitzSimons and Sam Koslowski
Producer: Orla Maher
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The Daily Aus is a media company focused on delivering accessible and digestible news to young people. We are completely independent.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Already and this this is the Daily Off.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
This is the Daily OS.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Oh, now it makes sense. Good morning and welcome to
the Daily OS. It is Sunday, the twenty fourth of November.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
I'm Billy, I'm Sam.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Happy Sunday, Billy, Happy Sunday. We're not usually in your
ears on a Sunday, so it's a bit of a
treat to be here today. We are bringing you a
bonus episode. We are intercepting your podcast feeds midweekend to
answer all the questions you have about vaping. So you
might have seen on our Instagram stories last week that
we asked you what do you not know about vaping
(00:41):
that you would like us to explain. It was no
surprise to us that we got hundreds and hundreds of
messages from you. There was so much that you wanted
us to explain to you, and so today we are
going to answer as much as we can.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
I'm really excited for this chat. I feel like it's
one of those really practical, relevant conversations. Just a note
before we get into it. This episode is sponsored by
the Australian Department of Health and Age Care, but they've
had no editorial influence over the content. We're sharing in
today's episode. So, Billy, I think before we get into
the specific questions, let's go right back to basics. Can
(01:16):
you explain to me what a vape actually is.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Yeah, we're going right right back to the very basics.
But I do think this is important because a vape
is something that we see all the time, but we
probably have never actually looked into what exactly it is.
So a vape is a battery operated device that can
look like a cigarette, a cigar or also you know,
other common items like highlighters or even a USB. And
(01:41):
often the illegal vapes people get on the black market
are quite colorful. That can kind of be one of
the defining features of many illegal vapes, and that's because
they're designed to appeal to the youth market, which is
part of the whole problem that these products are so
explicitly designed for the youth. And the mist of vapor
that is emitted from vapes is made by heating up
(02:04):
liquid chemicals, which is what you breathe in when you
are vaping.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
And that's where nicotine enters the conversation.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Yes, and so one of the key substances in most
fates is nicotine, which is also in cigarettes and is
an extremely addictive substance. Sam, do you know why nicotine
is so addictive?
Speaker 2 (02:22):
It taps into the cravings part of your brain.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Right, Yeah, But do you know the science behind it?
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Absolutely not.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
You've never looked into it. That's so surprising. I know.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
I'm a top line guy, So when I.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Was researching for this podcast, I found it really interesting
the science behind why nicotine is so addictive. And so
it's because it causes the brain to release dopamine, which
are probably heard of as a fappy Yeah, it's the
feel good chemical. But the effect of nicotine wears off
super super quickly, which is then what causes this vicious
(02:53):
cycle where the brain tricks you into thinking you need
to vape to feel satisfied or to get that dopamine
hit again, and that is how it becomes so addictive.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Wow, it's easy to understand then, how quickly that cycle
can evolve.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Yeah, because you get that hit and then it wears
off really quickly, and then you do it again to
feel the exact same thing.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
And then if you have an addictive personality that can
also kind of highlight or accentuate how quickly that happens.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
And another thing to note about a lot of vapes
is that a lot of research has shown that most
vps that say they don't contain nicotine actually do. And
that is another part of why so many vapes are dangerous,
because you don't know what is actually inside of them,
even if you think that you do. Another thing that
I found super interesting when researching for this is that
(03:40):
vapes can actually have more nicotine in them than cigarettes.
So sometimes they have up to five times more nicotine
than a cigarette. I had no idea about that.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
And think about that as an image, Think about five
cigarettes in your mouth. It's quite a start kind of
physical representation of how much nicotine is in a vape.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Yeah, and we'll get more into this, but just at
a very high level at the top. There is a
lot of research that tells us how harmful vaping is.
It can cause breathing issues, lung damage, and we also
know that nicotine dependents can also have an impact on
mental health.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
So, Billy, I feel like we've had this vaping conversation
now for not a long time, maybe a couple of years.
Where are we at with vapes in Australia? How popular
are they and how long have you been tracking this story.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
For vapes are so pervasive today, but I think it's
easy to forget how you know, only a short time ago,
they weren't everywhere. I remember when I first came to
The Daily, I was about three and a half years ago.
I think it was in my first month that I
pitched you Sam a story about vapes and you had
never heard of them.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Yeah, I remember that, Billy, and I remember thinking at
the time that I had kind of seen these things around,
I hadn't even had conversations about what they were. We
put up the story. You did a fantastic job on
that piece, and it was one of our most viewed
pieces of that year.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
And every time we do a story on va now,
it just there's so much engagement. There are so many
young people really wanting to understand more about what it
is they are inhaling. Your question, though, was about popularity.
So let's go through some quick stats. So in twenty sixteen,
eight years ago, it is estimated that about one hundred
thousand people were using e cigarettes daily. In twenty twenty three,
(05:22):
that jumped to about seven hundred thousand people who are
using them daily.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
So you have a seven times in Greece in seven years.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Yes, and again that is using them daily. That's not
people who are just using them socially on the weekend.
That is seven hundred thousand people who use them every
single day. We also know that this rise can mostly
be attributed to the uptake of vaping by young people.
So nearly one in ten people aged eighteen to twenty
four are vaping daily in Australia currently currently, and those
(05:53):
numbers are all according to the National Drug Strategy Household
Survey which came out in twenty twenty three.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
I'm keen to get some questions from the audience and
put them to you. The first question that caught my
eye was a question about the long term effects of vaping.
As we've just discussed this is an early ish phenomenon.
What do we know about the longer term effects of
daily vaping.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
So let's go through some of the known effects first
and then we can discuss long term. So we know
that vaping can lead to things like lung inflammation, coughing
and also breathing issues, and people can also experience persistent coughing,
chest pain and also palpitations and respiratory problems. It can
also result in permanent lung damage and also nicotine poisoning.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
And that's the term I've heard more and more recently.
Can you explain to me a bit more about nicotine
poisoning what that is?
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Yeah, So this happens if you have too much nicotine
in your body from inhalation or the liquid nicotine in
a vape is actually swallowed. And you'll know if you
have nicotine poisoning because of symptoms like nausea, vomiting, dizziness, headaches,
or even feeling really confuse. And it can also make
you really weak and tired, and we know it is
(07:05):
becoming more common because of vaping.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
And so those are all symptoms and experiences that nicotine poisoning,
for example, that you could have on a day where
you're actually vaping.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Yeah, those are a short term right, So what.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Do we know about the longer term effects?
Speaker 1 (07:20):
I want to start with brains, the effect that vaping
can have on our brains. So studies suggest that being
exposed to nicotine can be harmful for young brains in particular,
which we know is still developing until you're late twenties.
So Sam, your brain hasn't stopped developing yet.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Thank god, because this is all I'm left with. Then
we've got a problem.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
So there are several ways research says that vaping can
impact the brain, things like your mood, impulse control, and
also learning. And there's also a lot of research that
tells us that nicotine dependence can have a negative impact
on mental health. I feel like anecdotally, you know, you
can see in people around you who might vape, that
(08:01):
you can really see when vaping has that kind of
mental health impact. But just to confirm, like, there is
research there that confirms.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
That even if it's the agitation or trying to figure
out how to kind of leave a situation in order
to go and have a vape, it's all of those
things that can contribute to that state of anxiety.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Yeah, and interesting you bring up the word anxiety, because
the World Health Organization does say that vaping has been
directly linked to anxiety disorders, right, although one thing to
note is that research is limited in assessing of vaping
behaviors or mental health symptoms come first, So kind of
like a question about the chicken.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Or the egg there, and do we have any information
about whether people are moving from cigarettes to vaping or
from vaping the cigarettes or you know in terms of
that causation point, is one coming before the other.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Yes, so we know that young people who use e
cigarettes are more likely to start smoking cigarettes than non vapors,
and I think that's something that is important to bring
up in the conversation about the long term health effects
of vaping, because we know that if you are then
moving on to cigarettes, there is again a lot of
research about the long term effects of cigarettes that you know,
(09:10):
I don't think that we need to get into.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Because that's pretty well established.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
And I've actually heard a couple of people just anecdotically
actually take up cigarettes to get off vapes, and it's
that kind of situation that can be really concerning.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
And so dangerous.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
But then let's keep going with this long term effects discussion.
We've talked about the brain. Are there still some things though,
that we don't know about the long term effects of vaping?
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Yes, there is still stuff that we don't know. Essentially,
like we said before, vaping hasn't been around long enough,
or at least as popular as it is now for
long enough for there to be enough research about those
longer term effects. So we don't know yet how vaping
excessively or vaping even just occasionally in your twenties will
impact you in your sixties, because the people in their
(09:57):
sixties today weren't vaping when they we're in their twenties.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
To all of these yeah, all of this research is
going to come out. It's just going to take forty
years for us all to grow up.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Yeah, and that's why there is this concern about whether
we are just repeating the mistakes that were made with
the generation that grew up with smoking. One thing that
I also just want to mention that I haven't yet
is that we do know that the risk of harm
by being exposed to these chemicals is increased by frequent
vaping over a period of time. So we know that
(10:26):
the more that you vape, the more harmful.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
It will be. And Billy, when you were explaining that
before my ears pricked up with the C word cancer
that you mentioned in there, we actually also had a
question from the audience about if there's a link between
vaping and lung cancer, what can you tell me about
that particular relationship.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
So more research again is needed in this area. But
in March, new research was published in Cancer Research that
revealed people who vape for a year or more and
who have also never smoked before have similar changes in
their cells to smokes who go on to develop lung cancer.
And it was that research that actually resulted in one
(11:06):
six hundred respiratory health professionals publishing a media release earlier
this year which talked about the possibility that e cigarette
use could also lead to lung cancer. So there are
a lot of professionals and experts in this area who
are really concerned about the link between vaping and lung cancer.
And they also expressed, like I said before, concern that
(11:28):
we are making the same mistakes we made with cigarettes.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
And as what often happens with these trends that emerge
relatively fast in society and have adverse health effects, be
that physical or mental, the law takes a little while
to respond and to kind of keep up with developments.
I want to talk about the law, and I want
to talk about what the government is doing about the
rise in vapes. What's the latest in terms of the regulations,
(11:54):
and where do you think it's going to go next.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Yeah, this is a great question that we got a
lot from the audience because it has been changing incrementally
over the past few years. So it's understandable why there
is a lot of confusion about what exactly the law is.
So I'll tell you the latest. In July, Australia became
the first country in the world to ban the sale
of all vapes outside of pharmacies, and that law meant
(12:19):
that the only legal way to access a vape was
from a pharmacy if you had a prescription. So there's
been this real push from the government to stop people
from accessing vapes altogether unless you're wanting to access a
vape because you're trying to quit smoking or to manage
nicotine dependence.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
And then there was this new law in October, right.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
Yes, So in October a new law again came into
effect that allows adults to buy vapes from a pharmacy
without a prescription where state and territory laws allow. Did
you know that was the thing.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Sud No, that's really interesting. So you can still go
to a pharmacy without the prescription and get a vape that.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Way, yes, and that is specifically for people who are
trying to access a vape to quit smoking or to
manage their nicotine dependence. But to answer your question, yes,
if you fall into one of those two buckets. You
can go to a pharmacy to access a vape without
a prescription.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
And so presumably that would lead to a conversation with
a pharmacist. That has to happen before you can actually
buy the vape.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Yes, so you have to have a conversation with a pharmacist,
you're right. And also it's only available for people who
are aged eighteen and over, so it's only available for adults.
For people who are under eighteen, they do need a prescription.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
And I imagine the vapes that you can get from
the pharmacy are not the bright, colorful, flavored, no kind
of ones that you used to get from convenience stores.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Yeah, so the vapes you can get at a pharmacy
are obviously not the same as the ones that are
being sold illegally. They don't come in bright packaging or
in those fruity flavors. They do have nicotine in them,
but only below a certain concentration level. You can buy
vapes from a far pharmacy with a higher concentration level
of nicotine, but you do need a prescription for that.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
So, just to be clear and kind of wrap all
of that into a very tidy, little bow. It means
you can buy vapes with nicotine if you don't have
a prescription to help you quit smoking of vaping by
going to a pharmacy if you're over eighteen.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Got it a plus student, right, So.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
There's a couple of terms and cognitions there. Yes, and
there's quite a lot of pieces to that puzzle. Do
we know if people have actually been using that option?
Speaker 1 (14:28):
We actually do. We only just found out. So in
a recent Senate estimates it was revealed that three thy
five hundred people had accessed a vape from a pharmacy
in the month of October. So that's not including vapes
that were obtained from a pharmacist with a prescription. That
is three thy five hundred people who accessed a vape
without a prescription from a pharmacy.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
So that's a good number, that three and a half thousand,
but it's obviously not as much as the total number
of people in Australia who vape. I think we can
all agree on that, yees.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
So we know that there is an estam mated one
million people around the country who vape.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
So you know, we can be adults here and have
a conversation about the fact that there are still vapes
available illegally from convenience stores. How are they still so available?
Speaker 1 (15:13):
I mean, it's like many other illegal substances that people
are still managing to access them because there are businesses
that are selling them illegally. And also the reforms have
only come into effect very recently, so there still needs
to be some time for it to really take effect.
But important to say that any business like vape shops
or you mentioned convenience stores, sam, if they are selling vapes,
(15:35):
they are doing that illegally and that is something that
the government is trying to crack down on. We know
that at the start of the year a different piece
of legislation came into effect which banned the importation of
disposable vapes. That was really big when it came into effect.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
And that was trying to kind of limit the supply
of those vapes that are being sold illegally.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
Exactly, and since then, nearly six million vapes have been
seized by authorities in Australia. And that legislation that was
introduced at the start of the year, it also increased
the penalties for businesses that are caught illegally selling vapes,
which is why if you are buying vapes from a
convenience store, which again is illegal, you have probably seen
(16:14):
the price of them go up.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
It's really interesting how there's kind of different strategies to
try and counter this now black market of disposable vapes
from a supply point of view, from a selling point
of view. So, Billy, I'm somebody who has had asthma
for a very long time. I'm famous in the office
for carrying around my PAFFA. I don't vape because it
would have a negative impact on me pretty clearly straight away.
(16:38):
But I do know that I'm around people who vape,
and I'm wondering about the effects of secondhand vape vapor.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Yeah, so interesting. I don't know about people with asthma specifically,
but I do know that the World Health Organization says
that particularly in indoor settings, it can result in potential
risks to non vapors who are around vapors. But I
can say on the back of the who there is
research to say that it could impact you, particularly in
(17:07):
indoor settings.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Okay, so we've talked through the short term effects of vaping,
the long term effects of vaping, how the law is working,
and the fact that you can still get some vapes
for the purpose of trying to quit smoking from pharmacies.
I want to bring all of this together and leave
everybody with a conversation about what to do if you
want to quit vaping. Talk me through some of the
(17:29):
recommendations about how you should go about doing that.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Yeah, And people have different reasons for why they would
want to quit vaping. Some people are concerned about the
health effects. Some will quit vaping to feel better for
their body and mind to feel better. Some of those
might relate to listeners, or some of them they might
have a completely other reason for why they would want
to quit. If you are listening to this and you
(17:53):
want to quit but don't know how, there are a
few different places that you can go to to get support.
So you can go to the my quit Buddy app
which helps you to track your progress and stay motivated.
There are so many apps out there that really help
you track a whole range.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Of habit falling.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Yeah, yeahteresting, And I found it interesting when I was
researching for this that you could also find one to
help you quit vaping. You can also call Quitline on
one three seven eight four eight, where you can confidentially
speak to a counselor, and another option is also to
speak to a GP or health professional about the best
way to quit for you.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
I've seen from quite a few people who've kind of
documented their quitting journeys online that it's not a process
that's without challenge. You know, there are challenges to this.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
Yeah, it's never linear. I think quitting anything is always
a bit of a challenge. We know that a lot
of people who have tried to quit vaping have experienced
challenges like cravings, mood swings. Some people experience reastlessness, but
that is all normal to experience when trying to quit,
and it's just about how to manage them using the
support services.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
That I just mentioned, and we're going to put those
support services in today's show notes. Billy, thank you for
that conversation, and thanks to all the readers as well
and followers of TDA who reached out with questions, the
hundreds of questions. I think it's really important for us
in the news to be having these conversations about these
issues that feel very live. They feel like they're kind
of evolving in real time, whether it's from a health
(19:20):
or a law perspective. So thanks for taking us through
what is a very complicated area.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
That's all we've got time for on this special Sunday
edition of The Daily Ours. We're going to be back
in your ears tomorrow morning with a deep dive. Until then,
I'll have those links in the show notes and have
a great Sunday. My name is Lily Maddon and I'm
a proud Arunda Bunjelung Chalcotin woman from Gadighl Country.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
The Daily Os acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on
the lands of the Gatighl people and pays respect to
all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Island and nations. We pay
our respects to the first peoples of these countries, both
past and present.
Already and this this is the Daily Off.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
This is the Daily OS.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Oh, now it makes sense. Good morning and welcome to
the Daily OS. It is Sunday, the twenty fourth of November.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
I'm Billy, I'm Sam.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Happy Sunday, Billy, Happy Sunday. We're not usually in your
ears on a Sunday, so it's a bit of a
treat to be here today. We are bringing you a
bonus episode. We are intercepting your podcast feeds midweekend to
answer all the questions you have about vaping. So you
might have seen on our Instagram stories last week that
we asked you what do you not know about vaping
(00:41):
that you would like us to explain. It was no
surprise to us that we got hundreds and hundreds of
messages from you. There was so much that you wanted
us to explain to you, and so today we are
going to answer as much as we can.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
I'm really excited for this chat. I feel like it's
one of those really practical, relevant conversations. Just a note
before we get into it. This episode is sponsored by
the Australian Department of Health and Age Care, but they've
had no editorial influence over the content. We're sharing in
today's episode. So, Billy, I think before we get into
the specific questions, let's go right back to basics. Can
(01:16):
you explain to me what a vape actually is.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Yeah, we're going right right back to the very basics.
But I do think this is important because a vape
is something that we see all the time, but we
probably have never actually looked into what exactly it is.
So a vape is a battery operated device that can
look like a cigarette, a cigar or also you know,
other common items like highlighters or even a USB. And
(01:41):
often the illegal vapes people get on the black market
are quite colorful. That can kind of be one of
the defining features of many illegal vapes, and that's because
they're designed to appeal to the youth market, which is
part of the whole problem that these products are so
explicitly designed for the youth. And the mist of vapor
that is emitted from vapes is made by heating up
(02:04):
liquid chemicals, which is what you breathe in when you
are vaping.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
And that's where nicotine enters the conversation.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Yes, and so one of the key substances in most
fates is nicotine, which is also in cigarettes and is
an extremely addictive substance. Sam, do you know why nicotine
is so addictive?
Speaker 2 (02:22):
It taps into the cravings part of your brain.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Right, Yeah, But do you know the science behind it?
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Absolutely not.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
You've never looked into it. That's so surprising. I know.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
I'm a top line guy, So when I.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Was researching for this podcast, I found it really interesting
the science behind why nicotine is so addictive. And so
it's because it causes the brain to release dopamine, which
are probably heard of as a fappy Yeah, it's the
feel good chemical. But the effect of nicotine wears off
super super quickly, which is then what causes this vicious
(02:53):
cycle where the brain tricks you into thinking you need
to vape to feel satisfied or to get that dopamine
hit again, and that is how it becomes so addictive.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Wow, it's easy to understand then, how quickly that cycle
can evolve.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Yeah, because you get that hit and then it wears
off really quickly, and then you do it again to
feel the exact same thing.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
And then if you have an addictive personality that can
also kind of highlight or accentuate how quickly that happens.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
And another thing to note about a lot of vapes
is that a lot of research has shown that most
vps that say they don't contain nicotine actually do. And
that is another part of why so many vapes are dangerous,
because you don't know what is actually inside of them,
even if you think that you do. Another thing that
I found super interesting when researching for this is that
(03:40):
vapes can actually have more nicotine in them than cigarettes.
So sometimes they have up to five times more nicotine
than a cigarette. I had no idea about that.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
And think about that as an image, Think about five
cigarettes in your mouth. It's quite a start kind of
physical representation of how much nicotine is in a vape.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Yeah, and we'll get more into this, but just at
a very high level at the top. There is a
lot of research that tells us how harmful vaping is.
It can cause breathing issues, lung damage, and we also
know that nicotine dependents can also have an impact on
mental health.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
So, Billy, I feel like we've had this vaping conversation
now for not a long time, maybe a couple of years.
Where are we at with vapes in Australia? How popular
are they and how long have you been tracking this story.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
For vapes are so pervasive today, but I think it's
easy to forget how you know, only a short time ago,
they weren't everywhere. I remember when I first came to
The Daily, I was about three and a half years ago.
I think it was in my first month that I
pitched you Sam a story about vapes and you had
never heard of them.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Yeah, I remember that, Billy, and I remember thinking at
the time that I had kind of seen these things around,
I hadn't even had conversations about what they were. We
put up the story. You did a fantastic job on
that piece, and it was one of our most viewed
pieces of that year.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
And every time we do a story on va now,
it just there's so much engagement. There are so many
young people really wanting to understand more about what it
is they are inhaling. Your question, though, was about popularity.
So let's go through some quick stats. So in twenty sixteen,
eight years ago, it is estimated that about one hundred
thousand people were using e cigarettes daily. In twenty twenty three,
(05:22):
that jumped to about seven hundred thousand people who are
using them daily.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
So you have a seven times in Greece in seven years.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Yes, and again that is using them daily. That's not
people who are just using them socially on the weekend.
That is seven hundred thousand people who use them every
single day. We also know that this rise can mostly
be attributed to the uptake of vaping by young people.
So nearly one in ten people aged eighteen to twenty
four are vaping daily in Australia currently currently, and those
(05:53):
numbers are all according to the National Drug Strategy Household
Survey which came out in twenty twenty three.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
I'm keen to get some questions from the audience and
put them to you. The first question that caught my
eye was a question about the long term effects of vaping.
As we've just discussed this is an early ish phenomenon.
What do we know about the longer term effects of
daily vaping.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
So let's go through some of the known effects first
and then we can discuss long term. So we know
that vaping can lead to things like lung inflammation, coughing
and also breathing issues, and people can also experience persistent coughing,
chest pain and also palpitations and respiratory problems. It can
also result in permanent lung damage and also nicotine poisoning.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
And that's the term I've heard more and more recently.
Can you explain to me a bit more about nicotine
poisoning what that is?
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Yeah, So this happens if you have too much nicotine
in your body from inhalation or the liquid nicotine in
a vape is actually swallowed. And you'll know if you
have nicotine poisoning because of symptoms like nausea, vomiting, dizziness, headaches,
or even feeling really confuse. And it can also make
you really weak and tired, and we know it is
(07:05):
becoming more common because of vaping.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
And so those are all symptoms and experiences that nicotine poisoning,
for example, that you could have on a day where
you're actually vaping.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Yeah, those are a short term right, So what.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Do we know about the longer term effects?
Speaker 1 (07:20):
I want to start with brains, the effect that vaping
can have on our brains. So studies suggest that being
exposed to nicotine can be harmful for young brains in particular,
which we know is still developing until you're late twenties.
So Sam, your brain hasn't stopped developing yet.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Thank god, because this is all I'm left with. Then
we've got a problem.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
So there are several ways research says that vaping can
impact the brain, things like your mood, impulse control, and
also learning. And there's also a lot of research that
tells us that nicotine dependence can have a negative impact
on mental health. I feel like anecdotally, you know, you
can see in people around you who might vape, that
(08:01):
you can really see when vaping has that kind of
mental health impact. But just to confirm, like, there is
research there that confirms.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
That even if it's the agitation or trying to figure
out how to kind of leave a situation in order
to go and have a vape, it's all of those
things that can contribute to that state of anxiety.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Yeah, and interesting you bring up the word anxiety, because
the World Health Organization does say that vaping has been
directly linked to anxiety disorders, right, although one thing to
note is that research is limited in assessing of vaping
behaviors or mental health symptoms come first, So kind of
like a question about the chicken.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Or the egg there, and do we have any information
about whether people are moving from cigarettes to vaping or
from vaping the cigarettes or you know in terms of
that causation point, is one coming before the other.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Yes, so we know that young people who use e
cigarettes are more likely to start smoking cigarettes than non vapors,
and I think that's something that is important to bring
up in the conversation about the long term health effects
of vaping, because we know that if you are then
moving on to cigarettes, there is again a lot of
research about the long term effects of cigarettes that you know,
(09:10):
I don't think that we need to get into.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Because that's pretty well established.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
And I've actually heard a couple of people just anecdotically
actually take up cigarettes to get off vapes, and it's
that kind of situation that can be really concerning.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
And so dangerous.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
But then let's keep going with this long term effects discussion.
We've talked about the brain. Are there still some things though,
that we don't know about the long term effects of vaping?
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Yes, there is still stuff that we don't know. Essentially,
like we said before, vaping hasn't been around long enough,
or at least as popular as it is now for
long enough for there to be enough research about those
longer term effects. So we don't know yet how vaping
excessively or vaping even just occasionally in your twenties will
impact you in your sixties, because the people in their
(09:57):
sixties today weren't vaping when they we're in their twenties.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
To all of these yeah, all of this research is
going to come out. It's just going to take forty
years for us all to grow up.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Yeah, and that's why there is this concern about whether
we are just repeating the mistakes that were made with
the generation that grew up with smoking. One thing that
I also just want to mention that I haven't yet
is that we do know that the risk of harm
by being exposed to these chemicals is increased by frequent
vaping over a period of time. So we know that
(10:26):
the more that you vape, the more harmful.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
It will be. And Billy, when you were explaining that
before my ears pricked up with the C word cancer
that you mentioned in there, we actually also had a
question from the audience about if there's a link between
vaping and lung cancer, what can you tell me about
that particular relationship.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
So more research again is needed in this area. But
in March, new research was published in Cancer Research that
revealed people who vape for a year or more and
who have also never smoked before have similar changes in
their cells to smokes who go on to develop lung cancer.
And it was that research that actually resulted in one
(11:06):
six hundred respiratory health professionals publishing a media release earlier
this year which talked about the possibility that e cigarette
use could also lead to lung cancer. So there are
a lot of professionals and experts in this area who
are really concerned about the link between vaping and lung cancer.
And they also expressed, like I said before, concern that
(11:28):
we are making the same mistakes we made with cigarettes.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
And as what often happens with these trends that emerge
relatively fast in society and have adverse health effects, be
that physical or mental, the law takes a little while
to respond and to kind of keep up with developments.
I want to talk about the law, and I want
to talk about what the government is doing about the
rise in vapes. What's the latest in terms of the regulations,
(11:54):
and where do you think it's going to go next.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Yeah, this is a great question that we got a
lot from the audience because it has been changing incrementally
over the past few years. So it's understandable why there
is a lot of confusion about what exactly the law is.
So I'll tell you the latest. In July, Australia became
the first country in the world to ban the sale
of all vapes outside of pharmacies, and that law meant
(12:19):
that the only legal way to access a vape was
from a pharmacy if you had a prescription. So there's
been this real push from the government to stop people
from accessing vapes altogether unless you're wanting to access a
vape because you're trying to quit smoking or to manage
nicotine dependence.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
And then there was this new law in October, right.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
Yes, So in October a new law again came into
effect that allows adults to buy vapes from a pharmacy
without a prescription where state and territory laws allow. Did
you know that was the thing.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Sud No, that's really interesting. So you can still go
to a pharmacy without the prescription and get a vape that.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Way, yes, and that is specifically for people who are
trying to access a vape to quit smoking or to
manage their nicotine dependence. But to answer your question, yes,
if you fall into one of those two buckets. You
can go to a pharmacy to access a vape without
a prescription.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
And so presumably that would lead to a conversation with
a pharmacist. That has to happen before you can actually
buy the vape.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Yes, so you have to have a conversation with a pharmacist,
you're right. And also it's only available for people who
are aged eighteen and over, so it's only available for adults.
For people who are under eighteen, they do need a prescription.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
And I imagine the vapes that you can get from
the pharmacy are not the bright, colorful, flavored, no kind
of ones that you used to get from convenience stores.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Yeah, so the vapes you can get at a pharmacy
are obviously not the same as the ones that are
being sold illegally. They don't come in bright packaging or
in those fruity flavors. They do have nicotine in them,
but only below a certain concentration level. You can buy
vapes from a far pharmacy with a higher concentration level
of nicotine, but you do need a prescription for that.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
So, just to be clear and kind of wrap all
of that into a very tidy, little bow. It means
you can buy vapes with nicotine if you don't have
a prescription to help you quit smoking of vaping by
going to a pharmacy if you're over eighteen.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Got it a plus student, right, So.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
There's a couple of terms and cognitions there. Yes, and
there's quite a lot of pieces to that puzzle. Do
we know if people have actually been using that option?
Speaker 1 (14:28):
We actually do. We only just found out. So in
a recent Senate estimates it was revealed that three thy
five hundred people had accessed a vape from a pharmacy
in the month of October. So that's not including vapes
that were obtained from a pharmacist with a prescription. That
is three thy five hundred people who accessed a vape
without a prescription from a pharmacy.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
So that's a good number, that three and a half thousand,
but it's obviously not as much as the total number
of people in Australia who vape. I think we can
all agree on that, yees.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
So we know that there is an estam mated one
million people around the country who vape.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
So you know, we can be adults here and have
a conversation about the fact that there are still vapes
available illegally from convenience stores. How are they still so available?
Speaker 1 (15:13):
I mean, it's like many other illegal substances that people
are still managing to access them because there are businesses
that are selling them illegally. And also the reforms have
only come into effect very recently, so there still needs
to be some time for it to really take effect.
But important to say that any business like vape shops
or you mentioned convenience stores, sam, if they are selling vapes,
(15:35):
they are doing that illegally and that is something that
the government is trying to crack down on. We know
that at the start of the year a different piece
of legislation came into effect which banned the importation of
disposable vapes. That was really big when it came into effect.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
And that was trying to kind of limit the supply
of those vapes that are being sold illegally.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
Exactly, and since then, nearly six million vapes have been
seized by authorities in Australia. And that legislation that was
introduced at the start of the year, it also increased
the penalties for businesses that are caught illegally selling vapes,
which is why if you are buying vapes from a
convenience store, which again is illegal, you have probably seen
(16:14):
the price of them go up.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
It's really interesting how there's kind of different strategies to
try and counter this now black market of disposable vapes
from a supply point of view, from a selling point
of view. So, Billy, I'm somebody who has had asthma
for a very long time. I'm famous in the office
for carrying around my PAFFA. I don't vape because it
would have a negative impact on me pretty clearly straight away.
(16:38):
But I do know that I'm around people who vape,
and I'm wondering about the effects of secondhand vape vapor.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Yeah, so interesting. I don't know about people with asthma specifically,
but I do know that the World Health Organization says
that particularly in indoor settings, it can result in potential
risks to non vapors who are around vapors. But I
can say on the back of the who there is
research to say that it could impact you, particularly in
(17:07):
indoor settings.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Okay, so we've talked through the short term effects of vaping,
the long term effects of vaping, how the law is working,
and the fact that you can still get some vapes
for the purpose of trying to quit smoking from pharmacies.
I want to bring all of this together and leave
everybody with a conversation about what to do if you
want to quit vaping. Talk me through some of the
(17:29):
recommendations about how you should go about doing that.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Yeah, And people have different reasons for why they would
want to quit vaping. Some people are concerned about the
health effects. Some will quit vaping to feel better for
their body and mind to feel better. Some of those
might relate to listeners, or some of them they might
have a completely other reason for why they would want
to quit. If you are listening to this and you
(17:53):
want to quit but don't know how, there are a
few different places that you can go to to get support.
So you can go to the my quit Buddy app
which helps you to track your progress and stay motivated.
There are so many apps out there that really help
you track a whole range.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Of habit falling.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Yeah, yeahteresting, And I found it interesting when I was
researching for this that you could also find one to
help you quit vaping. You can also call Quitline on
one three seven eight four eight, where you can confidentially
speak to a counselor, and another option is also to
speak to a GP or health professional about the best
way to quit for you.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
I've seen from quite a few people who've kind of
documented their quitting journeys online that it's not a process
that's without challenge. You know, there are challenges to this.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
Yeah, it's never linear. I think quitting anything is always
a bit of a challenge. We know that a lot
of people who have tried to quit vaping have experienced
challenges like cravings, mood swings. Some people experience reastlessness, but
that is all normal to experience when trying to quit,
and it's just about how to manage them using the
support services.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
That I just mentioned, and we're going to put those
support services in today's show notes. Billy, thank you for
that conversation, and thanks to all the readers as well
and followers of TDA who reached out with questions, the
hundreds of questions. I think it's really important for us
in the news to be having these conversations about these
issues that feel very live. They feel like they're kind
of evolving in real time, whether it's from a health
(19:20):
or a law perspective. So thanks for taking us through
what is a very complicated area.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
That's all we've got time for on this special Sunday
edition of The Daily Ours. We're going to be back
in your ears tomorrow morning with a deep dive. Until then,
I'll have those links in the show notes and have
a great Sunday. My name is Lily Maddon and I'm
a proud Arunda Bunjelung Chalcotin woman from Gadighl Country.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
The Daily Os acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on
the lands of the Gatighl people and pays respect to
all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Island and nations. We pay
our respects to the first peoples of these countries, both
past and present.
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