Shutdown Standoff And Health Care Stakes

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Missed paychecks, spiking premiums, and a Capitol gone quiet—this conversation pulls back the curtain on a shutdown with life-or-death stakes. We walk through why a quick “reopen first” deal won’t cut it, why a one-year ACA fix is a political mirage, and what ink-on-paper protections are needed to stop millions from losing coverage and middle-class families from seeing premiums explode.

We get into the mechanics of power: a Senate that needs 60 votes, a House leadership that won’t show up to negotiate, and federal workers facing illegal-sounding layoffs and retaliation fears. The big picture comes into focus—who government serves when tax cuts for the 1% collide with cuts to Medicaid, community health centers, and rural hospitals. We connect the dots between health care and affordability: housing costs, groceries, and energy bills rising as clean-energy projects are paused and rooftop solar support gets slashed, even though they cut electric bills and create jobs in red and blue districts alike.

You’ll also hear frank answers on social media messaging, why clarity beats spin, and how scapegoating immigrants distracts from corporate power and high drug prices. We press constitutional limits on unilateral military action and examine the Gaza ceasefire without getting trapped in credit-claiming games, focusing instead on civilian harm and the laws we’re supposed to uphold. Along the way, we highlight real bipartisan lanes—like pharmacy benefit manager reform—that could lower costs now if politics gets out of the way.

If you’re tired of the blame game and hungry for specifics, this is your map of the road out: negotiate seriously, legislate protections that last, and center people over spectacle. If this resonates, follow, share with a friend who’s stressed about premiums or paychecks, and leave a review telling us your top priority for a real reopening deal.

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Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_12 (00:46):
It's so great to have both of you here.
We have so many audiencequestions tonight, really good
ones.
And Senator Sanders, just interms of how long this shutdown
has gone on, you and I havespoken multiple times during
this, but we're now on the 15thday.
The ninth vote to reopen thegovernment failed.
Do you think Speaker Johnson isright when he says that this
could be one of the longestgovernment shutdowns in U.S.

(01:06):
history?

SPEAKER_04 (01:06):
No.
I think the Republicans arecatching on that you can't throw
15 million Americans off of thehealth care they have.
And studies indicate that whenyou do that, some 50,000
Americans a year will dieunnecessarily.
And then on top of that, just inVermont today, Taylor, people in

(01:28):
my state, all over this country,are beginning to receive notices
from insurance companies aboutwhat their new premiums will be
if we do not stop what Trump isdoing.
In my state of Vermont, thereare people today who receive
notices that their premiums aregoing to quadruple.
Quadruple.
So less than three times.

(01:49):
In my state of Vermont, andagain, this is true in many
parts of the country, middleclass families will be paying
$50,000 a year for health care.
Anyone think that's saying?
It's not.
Who can afford that?
Republicans are catching on,they're playing a losing hand.
They are going to come to thetable finally and address the

(02:13):
healthcare crisis that they'vecreated.

SPEAKER_12 (02:15):
Okay, so you think Republicans will come to the
table sooner rather than later?
The White House has notindicated as much.
And today the budget director,Russ Boat, said that north of
10,000 federal workers could belaid off during this government
shutdown.
Does that make Democrats rethinktheir strategy at all?
I don't think so.

SPEAKER_11 (02:31):
I think that what Russ Vogt just uh just announced
today in the laying off thefederal workers, we learned
today, a judge has put atemporary restraining order
because it is likely illegalwhat he and the Trump
administration is doing.
The problem is that thisadministration, the Trump
administration, folks like uhRuss Vogt, they think that

(02:54):
destroying our health care,making sure that housing is too
expensive to live in, thatjacking up the costs of our
groceries, they think all ofthis is about hurting Democrats.
What they are doing is hurtingAmericans, and they are hurting
this country.
And if Mike Johnson wants to saythat this shutdown is going to

(03:16):
last a long time, it is becausehe is choosing to punish the
American people, and we cannotstand for it and we cannot allow
it.
And we also cannot enable it byacquiescing and enabling the
behavior of bullies.
So it ends today.
So we're going to be able to dothat.

SPEAKER_04 (03:35):
If I could just add to something, Alexander.

SPEAKER_11 (03:37):
Go ahead, Senator.

SPEAKER_04 (03:38):
This is the cynicism of the Speaker of the House.
Where are your Republicancolleagues tonight?
The back here in Washingtonnegotiating?

SPEAKER_11 (03:44):
That's an excellent question, Bernie.
Right now, House Democrats arein Washington, D.C.
Senate Democrats are inWashington, D.C.
Even Senate Republicans, Ibelieve, are still in
Washington, D.C.
The only people who are not inWashington, D.C.
are the over 200 electedRepublicans in the House of
Representatives.

(04:05):
Because Speaker of the House,Mike Johnson, refuses to call
the House in session.
He refuses to also seat AdelitaGrijalva because they want to
prevent the 218th signature andon release of the Epstein files
as well.

SPEAKER_12 (04:18):
Can I ask you on that?
Because Speaker Johnson wasasked about that today, and he
said it has nothing to do withthat.
It's the so she can have all thepomp and circumstance uh that is
afforded to most members whenthey're sworn in.
Do you do you don't believethat?

SPEAKER_11 (04:29):
No, Mike Johnson has sworn in several members,
Republican members in pro-formasessions.
He understands that theimportance of this country, the
importance of representation isnot about pomp and circumstance.
And in fact, it's not just aboutrepresentative Grihava, it's
about the over 700,000 people inthe state of Arizona, veterans,

(04:51):
seniors, teachers, students whodo not have anyone to call in an
emergency because their electedrepresentative that is that has
been certified at municipal,state, and the federal level,
federal acknowledgement, herefuses to seat a duly elected
uh official here in the House ofRepresentatives.

SPEAKER_12 (05:10):
So we have a lot of questions tonight for people who
are here in Washington.
And RepresentativeOcasio-Cortez, this first
question is for you.
Uh, this is Alicia Dulford, whois from Camp Springs, Maryland,
and is a TSA officer who'sactive in her local federal
employees union.
Thank you so much for beinghere.
What's your question?

SPEAKER_01 (05:25):
Thank you for having me.
Um as the month of Novemberapproaches, many of us are
facing serious hardships as weenter week three of the
shutdown.
Some are at risk of addiction ormortgage default, and local
rental companies and lendershave become silent or refused to
work with employees presentingDHS debt letters.

(05:48):
What protections or emergencyactions can be taken to prevent
these workers and their familiesfrom losing their homes during
this time?

SPEAKER_11 (05:57):
Well, thank you so much for your question.
And uh particularly as a TSAemployee, I represent LaGuardia
Airport, and so I know very,very well all the hard work that
you all do and put in.
And you all deserve a dignifiedworkplace.
You deserve a safe workplace,and you deserve the paycheck
that you are working for.

(06:17):
Um what I believe the best thingthat we can do is to reopen the
government right now and toensure and to also call on our
representatives and put pressureon individuals like uh the
speaker of the house to actuallypick up the phone.
The problem here is not thatthere is a dis is not even that

(06:38):
there's a disagreement.
It's that the Speaker of theHouse and the Trump
administration refuses to evenhave a negotiation.
They refuse to even pick up thephone and talk about this.
And so I do not want us to startto agree with what Mike Johnson
is saying and to have thempreview for us and normalize the

(07:03):
idea that everyone's just gonnamiss a paycheck, that a million
federal workers are just gonnago without that and to just warn
it in a warn that in advance andto have us accept that.
This is not acceptable.
This is not normal.
And what is normal is for us tonegotiate when one party wants

(07:23):
the votes of another party, younegotiate, you come to a
compromise, and you pass a bill.
That is schoolhouse rock, andthat is how things should be.
So I thank you for that.
And I want to make sure that we,of course, pass a bevy of
federal protections for workers,but we don't want them to be

(07:45):
necessary in the first place.

SPEAKER_12 (07:46):
Yeah, and and Senator Sanders, on that front,
on government shutdowns before,obviously you've said before
that you believe shutting downthe government is a serious and
dangerous action.
You said that we must doeverything possible to prevent
it.
What would you say to people whoare missing their paychecks uh
about why it's worth it now?

SPEAKER_04 (08:02):
Well, let me just first of all thank you very much
for your service.
And we're gonna do everything wecan and move as quickly as we
can to make sure you get yourpaychecks.
But I want to just back up alittle bit to discuss how we got
to where we are, because I'm notsure everybody knows this.
What Alexandria was just sayingis in the House, majority rules
they pass the budget.

(08:22):
In the Senate, not quite thecase.
It needs 60 votes.
Okay?
That's something going on for avery long time.
And the reason for the 60 votesis to encourage bipartisan uh
negotiations.
Republicans have 53 people intheir caucus, Democrats,
including independents, have 47.
You got to talk.

(08:43):
This time, for the first time inhistory, what Republicans are
saying, yeah, we don't have 60votes, we're not talking to you
our way or the highway.
And what we are saying, sorry,you gotta sit down and talk to
us, you gotta deal with thehealth care crisis in this
country.

SPEAKER_12 (08:59):
Well, and they have both uh Republicans have argued
that Democrats should reopen thegovernment and then they'll
negotiate.
Where do you both stand on thatprospect?

SPEAKER_04 (09:06):
I don't know.
Based on their history, theyhave had months and months.
This is not a new thing.
Ever since Trump's big,beautiful bill was passed, we
knew this was happening.
They've refused to negotiate,and anyone thinks that tomorrow
they'll suddenly startnegotiating, I think uh is
smoking what is illegal in manystates.

SPEAKER_12 (09:25):
Okay.
On that front, let's try to be alittle more from the audience.
Senator Sanders, this one's foryou.
This is Jeffrey Katz, who is atax attorney from Potomac,
Maryland, who says he's aDemocrat who voted for President
Trump in the last election.
Uh Jeffrey, what's yourquestion?

SPEAKER_03 (09:40):
Senator Sanders, you've said 50,000 people could
die from ACA subsidy cuts.
But right now, 1.4 millionfederal workers aren't getting
paid.
How do you justify choosing afight over subsidies that might
help people in the future overworkers who are definitely
suffering today?

SPEAKER_04 (09:56):
You are talking to a long at Alexandria, one of the
strongest pro-worker members ofthe United States Congress.
And we are going to fight forfederal workers.
And by the way, in terms of theAFT-Un, you are aware that our
friend in the White Housebasically in an unprecedented
way decided he wasn't going tohave that union anymore, etc.,
etc.
We're going to fight for federalemployees.

(10:18):
But when you just said about50,000 people dying a year, this
is based on studies done fromthe University of Pennsylvania
and Yale.
You take 15 million people offof their health care, by and
large, low-income and workingclass people, what do you think
is going to happen to them?
They don't get to a doctor, theyhave chronic problems.
They will die.
So this issue, and by the way,if I may, it's not only about

(10:40):
health care.
Do you know why we are in thesituation we are today?
Why do you think Trump and hisfriends made massive cuts to
Medicaid and are forcing us todouble premiums for the ACA?
They gave the 1% in this countryin trillion dollars in tax
breaks.
A trillion dollars in tax breaksat a time when we have more

(11:02):
income and wealth inequalitythan any time in the history of
this country.
So I am not going to sit backand say, yeah, we're going to
let 50,000 people die so thatElon Musk and Jeff Bezos and
other multi-billionaires begin atax break.

SPEAKER_12 (11:15):
But can I ask you in terms of negotiations and what's
realistic for the subsidieswhich expire at the end of
December?
Obviously, open enrollmentstarts November 1st.
Over in the House, there are 14House Republicans who have said
that they will sign on and theywill vote for a one-year
extension of the subsidies.
House or House Minority LeaderHakeem Jefferies said he thought

(11:35):
that proposal was laughable.
Do you think that's laughable oris that something you could get
behind?
Yeah, no, let me tell you whyit's laughable.

SPEAKER_11 (11:41):
Um, because it's cynical.
Republicans want to sign on tojust a one little extra year of
these ACA subsidies.
You want to know why?
What's happening next year?
The midterm elections.
They want to extend thesesubsidies just a year extra so
that people don't realize thedupe that they are pulling on

(12:04):
everyone, so that they can allre-elect themselves and allow
those things to expire themoment that they win
re-election.
And it is time to get politicsout of what should be a
guaranteed universal right inthe United States of America,
and that is health care.
And so I will not accept ameasly one-year acceptance of uh

(12:27):
a measly one-year extension ofthe ACA.
We need to make sure, and Iwill, and as a member of the
party, we put negotiations inthe hands of our party's
leadership with Hakeem Jeffries.
He says it's no, it's no.
And we have to make sure that weare expanding and continuing the

(12:47):
fight and not allowing, notfalling for the fine print, not
falling for the tricks, and notfalling for the politics around
this.

SPEAKER_04 (12:54):
If I could add to what Alexander was saying, it's
not just 15 million peoplelosing the health insurance.
And it's not just tens ofmillions of people seeing a
doubling or a tripling in theirpremiums.
Our healthcare system, you guyscan argue with me if you want.
I think our healthcare system isbroken, I think it is

(13:16):
dysfunctional, and I think it'son the verge of collapse.
And understand that when we talkabout these massive cuts to
health care from Trump and hisfriends, you're talking about
cuts to nursing homes, you'retalking about cuts to rural
hospitals, you're talking aboutcuts to community health
centers, where 32 million peopleget their primary care.

(13:37):
This system is on the verge ofcollapse.
And I went home that everybodyin this room and everybody in
America asked themselves a verysimple question.
Why is the United States therichest country in the history
of the world, the only majornation not to guarantee health

(13:58):
care to all people as a humanright?

SPEAKER_12 (14:01):
So can I ask, if a one-year extension you say is
measly and doesn't cut it, whatexactly do you want to see?
What would you vote for?

SPEAKER_11 (14:07):
Well, again, you know, negotiations are all about
a back and forth.
And the idea of acceptingsomething for nothing, uh, I
don't think is um is somethingthat we're prepared to do.
And by that, I mean thatrequires Mike Johnson saying
what he's willing to do andengaging in those negotiations
with Hakeem Jeffries.

(14:29):
And so this is a team sport.
This is about making sure thatwe're all uh can come to
something that we can agreewith.
So, you know, I I think we knowwhat we will not accept, and
what we will not accept is forthese ACA premiums to skyrocket
on the American people.
What we will not accept is thedoubling of these premiums, and
what we will not accept isallowing the teetering of this

(14:51):
system to collapse right beforeeveryone's up.

SPEAKER_12 (14:53):
Okay, so you won't accept one year.
I know, Senator, you've saidthat you believe they should be
permanent, but in terms of whatactually happens next year, what
do you need to see for thegovernment to be reopened?
Can you walk me through whatthat looks like?

SPEAKER_04 (15:05):
I have a radical idea.
You ready for a radical idea?
Let's do what the Americanpeople want.
Do a poll.
Do a poll to CMM.
Ask people, ask people how manythink it's a great idea to give
a trillion dollars in tax breaksto the 1% and decimate the
American healthcare system.
And if you don't have it, do nothave a strong majority of

(15:26):
Republicans, Democrats, andindependents say that is crazy.
I will be surprised.
Let's do what the Americanpeople want.
And at the very least, as wecontinue the fight for a
Medicare for all single-payersystem, we're going to protect
people today from losing theirhealth care or for seeing their
premiums skyrocketed, sayingnursing homes, community health
centers, decimated.

SPEAKER_12 (15:47):
But let's say that the White House and Republican
leaders say that they willextend these subsidies.
It's not clear how long, becauseyou say one year is not enough.
Um they haven't even really putthat forward yet.

I think the question is (15:57):
does that need to be enshrined into
law?
What does that need to look likebefore you even vote to reopen
the government?
Oh, or a commitment from theWhite House and Republican is
enough.

SPEAKER_04 (16:05):
No doubt.
I mean it's the president of thevery honest man.
And if he says something, man,you could take it to the bank.

SPEAKER_12 (16:12):
You're saying his word is not a bankruptcy court.
His word no.
So what would you what do youneed to see?

SPEAKER_11 (16:17):
What commitments from um I think we need to see
ink on paper.
I think we need to seelegislation, I think we need to
see votes, and I think we needto see these things pass uh on
the floor of the House and theSenate and signed by President
Trump.
I don't accept IOUs, I don'taccept uh pinky promises.

SPEAKER_12 (16:38):
Uh that's not the business that I'm in.
Okay, so you need a signaturefrom President Trump in order to
vote to reopen the government.
Correct.
Okay, Senator Sanders, we've gotanother question.
This one's for you.
Uh this is Logan Carey, who is astudent at American University,
who's a member of CollegeRepublicans and has volunteered
for Republican campaigns.
Thank you for being here, Logan.
You're from Green Maine.
Uh what's your question for theSenator?

SPEAKER_08 (16:58):
Thank you.
Senator Sanders, which PacificRepublicans leaders do you
believe you can work with topass a CR and reopen the
government?

SPEAKER_04 (17:06):
Well, that's a great question, Logan.
And let me tell you, I can, youknow, mention uh a number of
them.
There are some decent, honestRepublicans.
And, you know, in Americansociety, we believe in
democracy.
You're conservative Republicans.
We disagree.
So what?
Called America.
We have different points ofview.
I gotta tell you, though, if Imay, one of the things that has

(17:28):
concerned me very, very muchthat we are seeing the
Republican Party doing less ofrepresenting their districts and
their states than just swearingallegiance to the president of
the United States.
Now I never thought that I wouldsay this, but yet somebody like
Marjorie Kelly Green said, youknow what?

(17:49):
I was elected by myconstituents.
That's who I am beholden to, notthe president of the United
States.
So there are good Republicansout there, and if Trump would
leave them alone for fiveminutes and not threaten them
with a primary if they stood upand did the right thing, I think
we can make progress.
I will give you one story.

(18:10):
Tom Tillis, Cerberus Republicanfrom North Carolina, when we're
debating this big, beautifulbill, Tillis looks at the bill,
he reasons this is a disasterfor North Carolina.
I can't vote for it.
Literally, the next day, Trumpwas all over social media.
The billionaires were all oversaying, okay, you're finished,
we're going to primary you.
And a day later, this guy says,I'm out of here.

(18:31):
I'm not running for re-election.
All right.
That's where we are right now.
And that is a very seriousproblem.

SPEAKER_12 (18:37):
You mentioned Marjorie Taylor Green.
She's your colleague over in theHouse.
The way she frames this is shesays, Democrats created this
mess, but Republicans don't haveany solutions to fix the
healthcare issue either.
Is she someone that you couldsee yourself working with?
Uh, on what?

SPEAKER_11 (18:53):
On the healthcare issue.
I mean, listen, um, I thinkpeople can talk a good game.
Um, but until they actuallysupport policy that helps
people, uh, I, you know, I'm I'mnot particularly interested.

(19:13):
But if she wants to, if sheactually wants to support
legislation and expandinghealthcare, I've I've worked
with plenty of Republicans aswell on healthcare.

(21:18):
I I have a bill that I'veintroduced with uh Congresswoman
Malia Takis, um Republican fromNew York, uh, on expanding
maternal health andreauthorizing the Healthy Start
program to help newborn, uh,newborns and and new moms be
able to support their kids.
And so, in in terms ofbipartisan legislation on health

(21:40):
care, I'm more than open todoing that.
Uh, but it's not just abouttalking the talk.

SPEAKER_12 (21:44):
We got to walk the walk.
And you would need to see heractually support something that
you're behind in terms oflegislation on health care.
Yeah, yeah.
Our next question is for you,representative.
Uh, this is a video question.
It's from Eric Johnson, wholives in Hernando, Mississippi.
He's an air traffic controllerand a father of four, and who is
joining us via video tonight.
This is his question.

SPEAKER_06 (22:04):
What do you suggest government workers do for food
money when the paychecks stoppedcoming?

SPEAKER_11 (22:11):
I mean, these are the real questions that we have
to be entertaining.
And as I mentioned earlier, thebest and most important solution
to this is making sure that wereopen the government, not
accept the inevitability ofthis, uh, and come to a
resolution as quickly aspossible.
Extending this shutdown would bea choice.

(22:32):
Mike Johnson saying we want tomake this the longest shutdown,
saying this to prepare for thisbeing the longest shutdown,
that's not leadership.
That is abdication ofresponsibility.
It's an abdication to familieslike his.
Uh, in and in a completeabdication of the responsibility
that we have to people.

(22:53):
Now, that being said, we do haveto make sure that we come
together as communities and thatwe also systemically expand our
programming like the snap cutsthat just happened, in addition
to the trillion dollars inhealthcare cuts as well for
families that are underfinancial duress.

SPEAKER_12 (23:10):
You mentioned what Speaker Johnson has said about
how long this could go on.
Uh, we've heard from SenatorSchumer as well, who said the
other day that as long as theshutdown continues, he said,
quote, every day gets better forus.
Do you think every day, though,gets better for someone like
Eric?

SPEAKER_11 (23:25):
No, I mean, it's at the end of the day, this needs
to be as short as possible.
We do not want the government tobe shut down.
We don't.
This is not something that isgood for any American.
It's not good for the millionfederal workers that that are
that are out there right now.
It's not good for the Americansthat rely on federal services.

(23:48):
It's not good for people who aretraveling uh and can't get
through an airport because TSAworkers are not being paid.
So we have to make sure thatthis is as swift and as short as
possible.

SPEAKER_12 (23:59):
Well, and speaking of airports and what air traffic
controllers are having to gothrough, not getting paid.
I mean, he's a father of four,so I can't even imagine how that
feels.
And Senator Sanders, on thatfront, uh, in a CNN story the
other day, there was a senior umDemocratic aide who told CNN
last week that Democrats won'tback down on their demands here,
short of, quote, planes fallingout of the sky.

SPEAKER_04 (24:19):
Right.
What can I tell you?
That's obviously unacceptable.
Look, what we are dealing withis an unprecedented moment in
American history.
So it's not only a debate aboutwhether or not we can save
health care for tens and tens ofmillions of Americans, it's also

(24:43):
a broader issue.
And that issue is whether or notwe will accept the reality that
a handful of very, very wealthypeople are now making out like
bandits while 60% of our peopleare living paycheck to paycheck.
So I think what we are saying isthat now it's done not just for

(25:06):
health care, but all across, allacross the spectrum.
People can't afford groceries.
The housing crisis is enormous.
People paying 40-50% of theirlimited incomes for housing.
And all the while, ourworking-class families are
struggling to put food on thetable.
Trump gives his billionairefriends huge tax breaks, and

(25:27):
they are getting richer andricher.
So, what all of this is about isdo the American people come
together and demand that we havea government that represents all
of us or just wealthy campaigncontributors.
That is essentially what thiswhole fight is about.
And right now, healthcare is afamiliar, but there are a lot of
other issues.

(25:47):
I worry very much, you know,Alexandra and I were on the road
talking about this issue, thatwe are increasingly becoming an
oligarchic form of society wherea very small number of people
not only control our economy,but that their campaign
contributions have hugeinfluence over both political
parties.

(26:07):
And if there was ever a time inAmerican history when we have
got to stand up and fight forworking families, fight to
prevent authoritarianism takingplace in this country, this is
the moment.

SPEAKER_12 (26:19):
But you're saying it's bigger than just about
health care.

SPEAKER_04 (26:21):
Healthcare is huge.
When 50,000 people a year maydie because of Trump's cuts,
that in itself is huge.
But the issue is even broaderthan that.
It's do you have a governmentthat represents you and you, or
a government that representsbillionaires who want more and
more tax breaks and more andmore favors from the government?
That's really what the struggleis about.

SPEAKER_12 (26:41):
Senator Sanders, our next question is for you.
Nicole Plavitska is here with ustonight.
Thank you so much.
She's a Democrat and a studentat George Washington University
from Sunnyville, California.
What's your question?

SPEAKER_15 (26:52):
Hello.
Republicans have been appealingto audiences, especially young
people like myself, online usingsocial media.
Why does Republican messaging onsocial media seem so much more
effective than Democraticmessaging?
And what can we do about it?

SPEAKER_04 (27:06):
Well, that's a great question.
I think the Republicans areeffective.
They have learned a lot aboutsocial media.
And by the way, it doesn't hurtthat their friends on all of the
major uh social media platforms.
You know, Bezos uh owns uhTwitter or X.

(27:28):
Uh Zuckerberg uh owns uh Meta,Facebook, and Instagram.
Uh Mr.
Ellison's gonna own you prettysoon.
I think he's gonna take overCNN, not to mention uh CBS.
Uh so these guys have, you know,they can use algorithms to help
themselves.
But to answer your question,look, it gets back to something

(27:50):
that I've been talking about,Alexandria, others have been
talking about.
What does the Democratic Partystand for?
And I think messaging becomeseasy when you're prepared to
stand up and fight the rightfights.
And what is the right fight?
At a time when the top 1% ownsmore wealth than the bottom 93%,
and the rich are getting richerwhile working families are

(28:10):
struggling.
You tell me what the issue is.
And the issue is whether youstand with the working class of
this country or with wealthycampaign contributors.
And we're seeing more and moreDemocrats around the country, by
the way, beginning to understandthat.

SPEAKER_12 (28:24):
But to her question about how you're reaching out to
people, the two of you did avideo recently that got millions
of views explaining thegovernment shutdown, talking
about why you think this fightis worth it.
Democratic leaders did one alive stream that only got tens,
a couple tens of thousands ofviews, much less than than both
of y'all's.
Do democratic leaders need to uptheir game and how they're

(28:45):
reaching people?

SPEAKER_04 (28:46):
This is the master speaking.
I'll let our answer that.

SPEAKER_11 (28:49):
Well, you know, I think to Bernie's point, um
we're successful in thesemediums when we're clear about
what we believe.
And whether in the greatdiversity of our country, in the
very different perspectives thatwe may have, I know very
concretely what I believe.
Bernie knows very concretelywhat he believes, that

(29:11):
healthcare is a human right.
And that the minimum wage shouldbe a living wage in this
country, that public collegesand universities should be
tuition free, that no person inthis country, in the wealthiest
nation in the history of theworld, should be too poor to
live.
And in and it is it is clear tocommunicate that as an

(29:34):
individual.
Um now to to the questionearlier as well, when they talk
about Republicans uh and theirsuccess online, they have been
successful because they havealso been very clear, especially
digitally, about what theybelieve.
That women are inferior, that donot and they do not deserve

(29:56):
equal rights, that they believethat LGBTQ Americans are
subhuman, that they believe andare circulating disgusting
racial and white supremacistmessaging that they are able to
get away with digital digitallyand online.
And they are able to radicalizeand target and exploit a

(30:22):
generation of young boys inparticular away from healthy
masculinity and into an insecuremasculinity that requires the
domination of others who arepoorer, browner, darker, or a
different gender than them.
And that is why they areresonating online because they

(30:44):
are appealing to the most basestand worst parts of human nature
to divide us.
And why to divide us?
So that the same people who ownthose platforms, people like
Elon Musk, Peter Thiel, MarkZuckerberg, that these people
can continue to get away withhighway robbery in tax cuts, and

(31:09):
in order to spleeze all of ourpockets, cut our health care,
keep our wages low so that theycan, so that we remain fighting
amongst ourselves while theymake themselves richer.
And so, in order for us to fightback against that, we must be
clear about what we believe,have strong beliefs, and also be

(31:31):
completely unwilling to bow tothat kind of division and stand
in solidarity with one another,especially when it is someone
whose culture is different fromours or whose background we may
not entirely understand, butthat we honor, love, and see as
our fellow Americans.

SPEAKER_12 (31:47):
Representative of Oconcia Cortana, Senator
Sanders, we have a lot morequestions for both of you coming
up.
We're going to take a shortbreak and be right back to the
standard.

(32:10):
Representative, this nextquestion is for you, and it
comes from Ashley Vasquez, whois uh from Washington, D.C.
and is an attorney with theDepartment of Housing and Urban
Development, who is currentlyfurloughed.
Uh, I should note that Ashleyand four of her colleagues have
filed a lawsuit alleging thatHUB retaliated against them for
helping others exercise theirrights under the Fair Housing
Act.
Ashley, what's your questiontonight?

SPEAKER_14 (32:31):
Thank you.
Uh, just to reiterate, I amspeaking in my personal
capacity, not representing thegovernment, and I'm here with
some of my colleagues who havebeen fired for speaking up and
speaking.
Out.
So my question is aboutretaliation.
Many federal career federalemployees have been afraid to
speak up, they've been afraid topush back on illegal orders, and
some have even felt the need tocomply in advance to prove their

(32:53):
loyalty and protect their jobs.
What would you say to thosecareer federal employees?
And is there anything at allthat can be done to stop the
retaliation and overcome thisculture of fear?

SPEAKER_11 (33:04):
Well, thank you.
Thank you for your question.
And, you know, I think uh evenall of us heard at the top of
the show tonight that many ofthe federal workers here uh are
not having that that CNN is notdisclosing the party affiliation
of the federal workers that arehere tonight.
And that's for a reason,precisely because of the
question that you're asking.

(33:25):
Because there is a fear overpolitical retaliation by this
administration and a singlingout and isolating of career
federal workers based on partyaffiliation, just in their
participation in public civicdiscourse.
And this is from a RepublicanParty that claims to believe in

(33:47):
free speech, which we know fromtheir actions in the last couple
of months have actually beendoing nothing but the opposite.
No one should be afraid ofretaliation in their workplace.
It's just unacceptable.
And it's not, we're not justtalking about the Department of
Housing and Urban Development.

(34:08):
We're seeing this as well at theFDA, the CDC, the NIH, where
people's lives are literally onthe line.
People are being fired.
Career, we're not talking aboutpolitical appointees.
We're talking about career civilservants.

(34:30):
People who have been scientistsfor 20 years developing next the
next generation of chemotherapytreatments.
People, the, the, the, theabsolute public servants who, by
the way, forego very oftenlucrative careers in the private
sector because they believe inthe values of public service.

(34:51):
That is who this administrationis targeting.
Over what?
Well, we saw that thisadministration was directing
everyday federal workers to putin their email signatures
partisan, partisan messagingthat is likely in violation of
the Hatch Act.

(35:11):
And so this intimidation thatpeople are feeling is not just
about expressing themselves.
They feel that thisadministration is trying to
pressure them into breaking thelaw, or else they will lose
their job.

SPEAKER_12 (35:25):
Well, and to follow up with you on that, in terms of
the federal layoffs that theWhite House has been warning,
more will come if the governmentstays shut down.
Um, and they're saying Democratswill take the blame for that.
They also say that they'repulling funding for a lot of
projects.
The president described them asDemocrat-oriented projects.
One of that is they'rewithholding about$18 billion in
funding for two infrastructureprojects in your state.

(35:47):
How do you and can you fightback against that?
Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_11 (35:51):
I mean, once again, this administration is making a
foolish mistake by saying thatthey think that investments in
housing and in energy areso-called Democrat priorities.
Cutting the EPA as a Democratpriority.
You know what this countrylooked like before the EPA?
Rivers in rural areas were onfire because of corporations

(36:14):
poisoning the people who livedin those areas, poor
middle-class communities gettingpoisoned and dumped on by
corporations like Deloitte and3M pouring chemicals into these
places.
And they want to call it ademocratic priority.
And that's why they want toeliminate the FDA.
Well, you know what?

(36:34):
You're damn well right that it'sa democratic priority to keep
people from getting poisoned,from identifying dangerous
chemicals that are being dumpedin and causing cancer in people
without their knowledge.
You're damn right that it's ademocratic priority to bring
down the cost of housing andmortgages and rent.
And you're damn right that it'sa democratic priority to raise
the minimum wage in thiscountry, to allow people to get

(36:56):
a fair shot at the Americandream.
If they want to say that that'sa democratic priority, they're
right.
And they are targeting all of uswith this.
And so I do think it's importantfor us to remember that and that
these priorities are actuallynot partisan at all.

SPEAKER_12 (37:13):
And Senator Sanders, on this front, when we look at
funding that Congress hasalready approved, one thing
Democrats want to try to do hereis to limit the White House's
and the president's ability torescind funding that's been
approved by Congress as you'renegotiating a deal, or if we try
to get closer to one, is thatsomething that's a deal breaker
for you?

SPEAKER_04 (37:31):
Absolutely.
You know, we are beginning oneof the things that frightens me,
Caitlin, is we begin to acceptas normal the unconstitutional,
illegal, and outrageous actionson the part of the White House.
Can you imagine anybody everthinking that it would be
acceptable for somebody to say,oh, people in New York and

(37:54):
California and Vermont, theydidn't vote for me.
I'm not gonna put federal fundsinto those states.
You didn't vote for me.
We right now have a presidentwho is targeting the Attorney
General of New York State, whois targeting a United States
Senator because they did theirjobs.

(38:15):
Former head of the FBI.
What he is trying to do and whatice raids and knocking down
doors are about is to make allof you afraid.
You're a federal employee, don'tspeak up.
You're a government official,don't speak up.
You're in a law firm thatsomehow had clients taking on
Trump, don't speak up becausethey're gonna punish you.

(38:37):
You are on CNN, we're gonna sueyou if you ask the wrong
questions.
My friends, what this is aboutis a movement toward
authoritarianism, intimidatingus all, making us afraid.
And you stop and you think whatis this country about?

(38:57):
What makes us the great countrythat people all over the world
have always envyed, looked to?
It's the word freedom.
It's the right to decide.
If you disagree with me, that'sfine.
We have free elections.
You want to be me an election?
Go for it.
You're a newspaper writer, writewhat you want.
It's not having the presidenttrying to intimidate you, sue

(39:18):
you.
Cut your funding because youdisagree with them.
And that is the issue that wehave got to also address, not
just health care, not justhousing.
It's whether or not we stand upfor the freedoms that millions
of Americans fought and died todefend.

SPEAKER_12 (39:33):
Are you either of you going to demand that they
release the funding for thosetwo?
Absolutely, of course.
In order to re-open thegovernment?
Of course.

SPEAKER_11 (39:40):
Well, you know, here's what we have to not only
should should the thisinfrastructure funding be
released, but in New York, whichthis administration is targeting
uh in some of theseinfrastructure cancellations,
some of the projects that theyhave canceled have been
large-scale wind energyprojects.

(40:03):
And again, they think this is ademocratic priority, right?
Because it's because it's windenergy.
But this is energy, period.
In New York State, Con Ed bills,that's our energy utility, Con
Ed bills are set to go up, go upalmost another hundred dollars
next year because of thosecancellations.

(40:24):
That's affecting, and it'sjacking up the prices in Mike
Lawler's district, in NicolaMaliatakis' district, in
Republican districts across thestate, it is affecting, and they
are jacking up the price, theprices on MAGA voters, too.
It is killing all of us.

(40:45):
And so while they think thatsabotaging energy projects in
this country, which by the way,oil and gas, much more volatile,
that goes up and down all thetime, that they think sabotaging
these projects are somehowowning the lids.

SPEAKER_12 (41:01):
No.
Well, and I should note thatMike Waller has told us he's
actually trying to get theadministration to reverse that
that holding on that funding.
Senator Sanders, if I might.
But can I ask you in the shadowbecause I've got a housing
question for you coming up?

SPEAKER_04 (41:14):
All right, I'm happy to answer that, but let me also
just add on to what Alexandersaid.
I'll give you an example ofcutting quote unquote democratic
programs.
I managed to get a$7 billionprovision in the inflation
reduction idea what it does.
It will help low-income andworking class people install
solar panels on their rooftops.

(41:35):
If you have solar on yourrooftop, you know what?
Your electric bill will go down70, 80, 90 percent.
We're gonna create all kinds ofjobs doing that, building the
solar, installing the solar.
They were suing them, but theycut that program.
A democratic significantlyreduces electric costs for

(41:57):
working class people in America.
That is a mentality, and by theway, it's part of a mentality of
Trump, which thinks that climatechange is a hoax.

SPEAKER_12 (42:05):
Well, and they warned that more cuts could come
the longer the shutdown goes on.
Uh, Senator Bobby Harms isjoining us.
She's a bartender from HornLake, Mississippi.
She is a Democrat.
She submitted her question uhbeing bitter.

SPEAKER_04 (42:16):
A Democrat from Mississippi Mississippi.

SPEAKER_12 (42:17):
MDT.

SPEAKER_04 (42:18):
All right.
There we go.

SPEAKER_10 (42:21):
My American dream has turned into a nightmare.
My family was only days awayfrom closing on a USDA load for
our dream home.
Then came news of the shutdown,and now we face uncertainty.
Our lease is up, and now we haveto move.
The shutdown is costing us ourchance to live our dream.
What are you doing to end thisstalemate and help restore faith
in our elected officials, thepeople I help to choose to guard

(42:44):
my American dream?

SPEAKER_04 (42:45):
We're gonna do everything that we can to bring
an end to this terribleshutdown, which is hurting you
and which is hurting a millionfederal employees and millions
of people who use federalservices.
But also, we have got to becognizant that if Trump wins
this fight, our health caresystem could well collapse and

(43:09):
tens of thousands of peoplecould die every single year.

SPEAKER_12 (43:14):
Do you think Trump could win this fight?

SPEAKER_04 (43:16):
No, we're gonna win it.
But I don't want to look at itlike a political fight.
We're gonna win it because theAmerican people are on our side.
If you are, or you're aRepublican congresswoman, you're
gonna go back to your districtand people are gonna say to you,
Why are you doubling myinsurance premiums?
Why did you throw me off ofhealth care?
That's a fight that Republicansare not gonna win.

SPEAKER_12 (43:40):
Well, and to Bobby's question, uh, Representative,
earlier you said that HouseSeeker Mike Johnson said he
wants this shutdown to be one ofthe longest in history.
I believe he said it could beone of the longest in history.
He was saying that more of awarning about how long it could
go on.
I don't think it was a threat.
But I do think people want toknow how long they should brace
for this to potentially go onfor.
Do you think by Thanksgiving thegovernment could still be shut
down?

(44:00):
I mean, I would certainly hopenot.

SPEAKER_11 (44:02):
I would certainly hope not.
I my hope is that we're able toresolve this as quickly as
possible.
I'm ready to negotiate.
Bernie's ready to negotiate.
I mean, we are all open andready to is anyone actually
negotiating right now?

SPEAKER_04 (44:15):
No, but let's hear from the Republicans aren't in
town.
How do you negotiate with peoplewho refuse even to show up to do
their job?
They're on vacation for what?
What the?

SPEAKER_11 (44:26):
Yes, yes, House Republicans have been on
vacation for a month.

SPEAKER_12 (44:29):
But the Republican senators are here, and House,
House Speaker Mike Johnson,we've had him on.
He said, We've done our job, wepassed the clean CR in the
House.
It's now to the Senate to makethese negotiations.

SPEAKER_11 (44:39):
They need to pick up a phone, Caitlin.
It's they need to pick up aphone.
They're saying that they'redoing all this work, they are
twiddling their thumbs andtalking to each other.
They're they it it is actuallyan unconscionable abdication and
refusal to work.
They refuse.

(45:00):
I've never seen people who hateworking so much in my life.
I mean, genuinely, they won'teven pick up a phone.
They won't.
If I were Mike Johnson, youshould be in that office
negotiating with Hakeem Jeffriesevery damn day until we reopen
this government.
And any day that you don't dothat is a failure.

(45:21):
It is a failure.
And until there isaccountability for people who
refuse to work, to work, thenwe're gonna continue to be in
this cycle.
So, you know, in the Senate, thethe Senate majority leader is
John Thune.
They should he should benegotiating with Chuck Schumer.

(45:42):
President Trump should be havingcongressional leaders in the
White House.
Do you see that every day?
No, you don't, because they'replaying golf and they're going
to Mar-a-Lago and the House andand uh and Republicans in the
House have been on vacation forweeks now.
We are here in Washington, D.C.
We are ready to work, we areready to strike a deal, we're
not here to just be my way andthe highway about everything.

(46:04):
But we're what we're also notgoing to accept is the complete
collapse of the Americanhealthcare system, so that just
because the Republican Party hasdecided to take a million
federal workers hostage.

SPEAKER_12 (46:15):
Can I ask you on that?
Because you before have said agovernment hostage a government
shutdown is like hostage takingwhen it comes to to paychecks.
Because you came into officeactually during a government
shutdown, the longest in UShistory.
So what would you say toRepublicans who say you're doing
the hostage taking this time?

SPEAKER_11 (46:33):
Once again, pick up the phone.
They need to pick up the phone.
And it's not hostage taking ifthey refuse to clock in, right?
We're all clocked in.
We're all clocked in to do thejob.
They're not even here.
They're not even here.
And so it's not hostage takingas much as the fact is they

(46:53):
refuse to show up and do thejob.

SPEAKER_04 (46:55):
Once again, the lawyers in the Senate, they need
60 votes.
They don't have 60 votes.
They've got 53, well, maybe 52.
That means you have to sit downand talk to the other side.
It is not complicated.
They are not doing that.

SPEAKER_12 (47:12):
Yeah, each side is saying that no one's talking.
And speaking of what's happeningin the Senate, Senator Sanders,
this next question is for you.
It's from Rohan Naval, who isjoining us here tonight.
Thank you so much for beinghere.
He said he's a Republican and astudent at American University,
and that you interned for theconservative group, Americans
for Tax Reform.
What's your question?

SPEAKER_16 (47:29):
Yes, thank you for your time, Senator.
How do you think this shutdownreflects on Chuck Schumer's
leadership?

SPEAKER_04 (47:35):
Well, I think it reflects more on Mike Johnson's
leadership and President Trump'sleadership.
This is a leadership which saidit's okay to give a trillion.
Well, how do you feel?
You tell me.
Think it's a good idea to give atrillion dollars in tax breaks
to the richest people in thecountry and then make massive
cuts to health care for workingclass people?

SPEAKER_16 (47:56):
I think Chuck Schumer has voted for continuing
resolutions 13 times in the lastfour years, and he has the
opportunity to vote for oneagain, but he's refusing to come
to the table.

SPEAKER_04 (48:05):
As I have said, there are 53 uh Republicans in
the Senate, correct?
They need 60.
What does that mean?
It means you have to talk to theother side.
Mike Johnson is not talking,John Toon is not talking,
President Trump is not talking.

(48:26):
That is the problem.

SPEAKER_12 (48:27):
Well, they say their position is reopen the
government and then we'll talkabout it.
Who changes their strategyfirst?
Who's going to blink first?
I think is a problem a lot ofpeople have.

SPEAKER_04 (48:34):
Well, I certainly hope it's not a this is not a
gain.
I mean, a lot of lives are atstake in terms of our federal
employees who are hurt in termsof tens of millions of people
who are going to suffer fromthese health care proposals.
So I hope the Republicans do theright thing.
Come to the damn table and talk.

SPEAKER_12 (48:52):
Can I ask you, Representative Ocasio-Cortez, on
that?
Because we actually heard fromHouse Speaker Mike Johnson today
on Chuck Schumer.
He said he's supporting theshutdown to prevent a primary
challenge from his left wing.
Do you think that's what'sdriving Senator Schumer here?
No, absolutely not.

SPEAKER_11 (49:06):
That is, it is so, it's such an insane uh uh
suggestion.
And in fact, it speaks to howdesperate they are.
This claim has been, MikeJohnson's been saying this, John
Toon's been saying this.
They are saying this becausethey are refusing to do their

(49:26):
job, they're grasping forstraws, they're trying to make
this about political tabloidsand political intrigue and horse
races, exactly the kinds ofthings that people are sick of
in this country.
We're sick of it.
We're sick of talking aboutthese horse races, and we're
sick of leaders who only want tospend their time talking about

(49:48):
that instead of talking aboutreal issues that affect our
lives, instead of talking abouthealth care, instead of talking
about wages, instead of talkingabout having air that's
drinkable, I mean air thatthat's breathable and water and
water that's drinkable.
And it's it it is honestlyastonishing to me that the
Speaker of the House would wastehis time on something so inane

(50:12):
and silly instead of actuallyworrying about his own
constituents who are sufferingat the hands of his leadership.

SPEAKER_12 (50:18):
But are you saying that Senator Schumer should not
be worried about a primarychallenge from you?

SPEAKER_04 (50:22):
I mean Let me jump in on this one.
This is what we're talkingabout.
We've got a housing crisis, ahealth care crisis, an education
crisis, massive income andwealth inequality, a corrupt
campaign finances, and the mediasays, Oh, you're gonna work what

(50:43):
are you doing?
Nobody cares.
So what we're talking about.

SPEAKER_12 (50:46):
Nobody cares here.

SPEAKER_04 (50:50):
Pardon.
Pardon?
Of course they're saying it todeflect attention away from the
real issue.
Exactly.
And he only can tell you whatthe real issue is.
Because Steve CNN talks aboutit.
We're living in the richestcountry in the history of the
world, right?
All right, you tell me why we'rethe only nation not to guarantee
health care to all people, theonly nation not to guarantee
paid family and medical leave,why we have a$7.25 an hour

(51:13):
minimum wage, why we have800,000 people sleeping out on
the street, why we have apresident who denies the reality
of climate change, why we haveoligarchs on top who have more
and more power every day.
Let's talk about that issue, notour own political future.
She'll decide that.

SPEAKER_12 (51:30):
On that note, Senator Sanders, Representative
Ocasio-Cortez, we have many morequestions coming up.
We'll be right back to Mark inthe hall.
Senator, I'd like to ask youabout some uh breaking news that

(51:51):
happened today, but we had heardum from the White House.
The president confirmed thatthere are CIA actions happening
in Venezuela.
We've seen multiple strikeshappening on what they allege
are drug boats out of openwaters.

SPEAKER_04 (52:04):
Do are you worried about this escalating further
from your Well, I am worriedagain about the president acting
in an unconstitutional way.
The constitution is prettyclear.
You want to go to war, you'vegot to go to Congress.
You've got to need authorityfrom Congress.
Think about what kind of worldwe live in.
So that concerns me very much.

(52:26):
Uh so yeah, I am concerned aboutthat.

SPEAKER_12 (52:28):
And his argument is he's saving lives because he's
alleging that there's a lot ofpeople.
Good.

SPEAKER_04 (52:35):
And if it makes sense, you'll get support.

SPEAKER_12 (52:36):
Okay.
So you're not saying you'reagainst it.

SPEAKER_04 (52:37):
You're just saying you'd like to have the saying
that the president is actingunilaterally in violation of the
Constitution.
That's a pretty big deal.

SPEAKER_12 (52:44):
And Representative Ocasio-Cortez, another question
tonight when it comes to howthis shutdown is playing out
here in Washington.
I want to bring in Jill Ireland,who is a Democrat who works in
insurance.
She's from Santa Barbara,California, and her question is
appearing via video tonight.

SPEAKER_09 (53:00):
Hello.

My question is (53:01):
do you think that taxpayers should be paying
for the medical care ofimmigrants that are in the
country illegally?
Thank you.

SPEAKER_11 (53:10):
Well, we already know, um, and this is a common,
this is a common lie thatRepublicans have been repeating,
that this shutdown is aboutDemocrats trying to uh provide
health care to the undocumented.
And um, and we all know, wealready know that it is federal
law and federal statute thatundocumented people cannot be

(53:35):
covered by the ACA, they cannotbe covered by Medicaid, they
cannot be covered by Medicare.
Period.
That is the law of the land.
There are plenty of federal lawson the books.
Now, the vice president has beentrafficking this other
misconception, saying that theemergency Medicaid program is

(53:56):
doing, is providing health careto undocumented people.
That too is a complete, just Idon't even know, whole cloth
storytelling, we should say.
The truth of the matter is thatwe have a federal law, as it
should be, that any person whowalks into a hospital in

(54:19):
desperate need of medicalattention receives that medical
attention regardless of theirinsurance status and regardless
of who they are.
And I don't know about you, butme as a human being, I don't
want to live in a world where ifa human being is struck by a car
or is getting rushed into ahospital, that the people in the

(54:41):
ER surgical room are asking foryour insurance information or
asking for documents before theysave your life.

SPEAKER_12 (54:47):
But can I ask you on this to follow up?
Because you said that it isfederal law, that people
undocumented, undocumentedimmigrants can't get Medicare,
Medicaid, the Obamacaresubsidies.
Do you believe that should bethe law, though?
Or do you think undocumentedimmigrants should have access to
federal information healthcare?

SPEAKER_11 (55:02):
I I believe personally that health care is a
human right.
I believe that every personshould be able to go to the
doctor.
But I believe that right now,federal law is the federal law.
And that, and that absolutely,you know, that that US citizens
and people who pay into ourprograms deserve to uh to be
covered by these programs.

(55:22):
And I mean, once again, I dobelieve that the federal laws
that we have on the books areappropriate.

SPEAKER_12 (55:29):
Do you believe that that should be changed?
Pardon?
If you could choose, do youbelieve that the federal law
should be changed?

SPEAKER_11 (55:34):
I don't, I believe in a single-payer health care
system where if you go in andyou need a doctor, you can get
the medical attention that youneed.

SPEAKER_04 (55:42):
Okay, let me just make a point here.
You know what demagogues likeTrump always does?
Instead of addressing the realcrises facing our country, why
are we the only major countrynot to guarantee health care
while spending twice as much perperson?
We're spending$14,500.
It's a good debate, right?

(56:03):
Let's have that debate.
You hearing Trump talking aboutthat?
No.
No.
Why are we having a high housingcrisis when millions of people
are spending 40-50% of theirliving?
Let's discuss that.
You know what demagogues do,guys?
What they do is they find apowerless minority.
In Europe during the 30s, it wasthe Jews, then it's the gypsies,
and America's historically beenblack people, it's been gay

(56:27):
people, it's been Latino.
You name your pick.
You got a powerless minority,let's blame them for everything.
But you know what they don'tblame?
Somehow or another, they don'tblame the billionaires who run
the country.
Because those guys finance theircampaigns.
They're trying to divide us up.

(56:49):
And what we have got to do isunderstand we are the majority.
Most Americans think healthcareis a right.
Most Americans think we shouldhave a minimum wage, which is a
living wage.
Most Americans don't believe weshould have tax breaks, the
billionaires, and cutback oneducation.
Let's bring our people together,not fall with a demagoguery of

(57:11):
Trump and his friends.

SPEAKER_11 (57:12):
And by the way, this is not the first time that
Republicans and theadministration does things like
this.
We have something on the booksknown as the Hyde Amendment,
which prevents women in thiscountry from being able to
access reproductive health careservices and abortion care
services if they are on Medicaidor if they have any federally

(57:36):
subsidized health care.
And so targeting minorities,targeting vulnerable
populations, making health carecontroversial in this country is
exactly how they keep usfighting and distracted.
These policy debates are morethan than substantive, merited.

(57:57):
We can have these conversationsas we have, but let's not trick
ourselves into thinking thatthey somehow are fighting for
every American to have healthcare, to improving health care,
to expanding health care, whenwhat they're far more interested
in doing is protecting theinsurance company's profit
margins that are forcing you topay more money for less care.

SPEAKER_12 (58:19):
And I'd ask on that because Speaker Johnson said
something to the effect theother day that Republicans are
actually the party that wants tofix health care by addressing
issues with it, as they he saysthey did the one big beautiful
bill.
What would you say to that?

SPEAKER_04 (58:30):
Susie, did he really say that?

SPEAKER_12 (58:31):
Yeah, he did.

SPEAKER_04 (58:33):
They're trying to fix healthcare by throwing 15
million people off of it?
They're being more serious aboutit than how they fix healthcare?
That's a kind of strange way tofix health care.
Uh look, here's the point.
The United States, richestcountry on earth, only country
not to guarantee healthcare toall people.
If you go up to Canada, is theirsystem perfect?

(58:54):
No.
You have a serious operation,you're in the hospital for a
month.
You know what your bill is whenyou get out?
So you they spend half as muchas we do per capita.
So you've got a healthcaresystem, which is a disaster,
except for one thing.
Here's the good news.
Drug companies last yearcharging us the highest prices

(59:15):
in the world for prescriptiondrugs made over$100 billion in
profit.
Insurance companies make tens ofmillions of dollars.
They pay their CEOs$20,$30million a year.
The function of the Americanhealthcare system, and Mr.
Johnson, is not going to addressit.
The function of this system isto guarantee huge profits to the
drug companies and the insurancecompanies, and they could care

(59:36):
less about the needs of ordinarypeople.

SPEAKER_12 (59:38):
Well, and I know you and I have discussed before
there are areas with thepresident lowering drug prices
where you agree with some of thesteps that they're taking or at
least trying to take.
But on this front, I want to goback to the questions.
So there's we have another onefor you, representative.
This is from Nevin Skalko, whois here tonight from Payneville,
Haynesville, Illinois, who worksin medical sales.
Uh he says he voted Republicanfor the first time in 2024.
Thank you for being here.

(59:58):
What's your question?

SPEAKER_07 (01:00:00):
One reason Americans are losing faith in government
is that neither side seemswilling to acknowledge when the
other gets something right.
It feels like any success fromthe opposing party must
automatically be discredited.
Don't Democrats risk alienatingvoters by refusing to give
credit, even to Trump, when apolicy or action genuinely

(01:00:21):
benefits the country isn't partof restoring trust and
leadership being honest enoughto say, yes, that worked.

SPEAKER_11 (01:00:29):
Yeah, well, you know, I think there's we're more
than willing to be able to cometogether in the things that are
most important to us.
I I work regularly withRepublicans in the House, and I
applaud when uh when we're ableto pursue work together.
I'll give you a great, I'll giveyou one example.
Uh towards the end of last year,Republicans and Democrats um

(01:00:51):
both champion something known asPBM reform, pharmacy benefit
manager reform.
This is a middleman in ourprescription drugs that the
insurers use and lots of otherfolks use to jack up the price
of your prescriptions.
Uh and we, Republicans, havebeen uh have been going after

(01:01:13):
PBM reform.
In fact, I spoke with um withthe chairman of one of the
committees and he said, I wantto go A and C on PBMs.
There is possibility uh for usto work with one another.
President Trump, in fact, hadendorsed it at the end of
December.
And I am fully in support ofthis effort to make sure that we

(01:01:35):
reform PBMs.
Now, politics did get in theway.
This was at the end of lastyear, Elon Musk sent a tweet.
We had it ready to go.
And and this was going to changethe lives of millions of people
and small businesses across theUnited States, small
neighborhood pharmacists.
And what we saw was that ElonMusk sent a tweet.

(01:01:58):
Donald Trump agreed with it,House Republicans agreed with
it, Senate Republicans agreewith it.
I was more than happy tochampion this because it's the
right thing to do, and that'swhat should come first.
Now, a tweet made it go all theway, you know, kind of kind of
can the whole thing.
But should President Trump re,you know, revive this?

(01:02:23):
Should House Republicans revivethis, I would be more than
happy, effusive, as I have beenin the past, uh, about the
ability to call a win a winbecause it's not about whether
it's a win for Republicans or awin for Democrats, it's about
whether it's a win for people.

SPEAKER_12 (01:02:38):
Can I ask you on that front?
I don't think I've seen you sayanything publicly, maybe I'm
wrong, about the ceasefire inGaza.
Do you believe President Trumpdeserves credit for that?

SPEAKER_11 (01:02:47):
Well, you know, I find these there have been
several ceasefire announcementsand developments that have
happened over the past twoyears.
I think that the release of thehostages is a tremendous
accomplishment, and it isproviding so much healing to so

(01:03:09):
many people, Israelis andPalestinians, and it is a
profound and important moment inthis conflict.
I also think that as PresidentTrump was on the plane back to
the United States, there'salready indications and
questions about whether thisceasefire will hold.
And I pray that it does foreveryone's benefit.

(01:03:32):
I pray that it does.
But I do believe we need to seeif it holds.
I don't believe that uh there'sbeen a history of fidelity to
these agreements.
And so I think we have to ensurethat uh that we will see the
terms out too.

SPEAKER_12 (01:03:48):
Do you give him credit though for getting to
this point where it did getthose 20 hostages back home with
their families?

SPEAKER_11 (01:03:54):
In this particular development, yes, but we also
know that President Trump uh wasan obstacle to peace uh
previously as well.

SPEAKER_04 (01:04:04):
I I get uh to be honest with you, I get a little
bit annoyed when everyone'stalking about credit.
Let's take a look at what'sgoing on there.

SPEAKER_12 (01:04:12):
Why do you get annoyed by that?

SPEAKER_04 (01:04:13):
I'll tell you why.
Gaza has a population of 2.2million people.
In the last two years, 160,000people have been wounded, mostly
women, children, and theelderly.
65,000 people have been killed.
Women, children, and the elderlypredominantly.

(01:04:34):
That is 10 percent, 10% of thepopulation of Gaza in America.
You know what that would mean?
Three 33 million people dead orwounded.
A disaster, a genocide, if youlike.
The entire infrastructure ofGaza hospitals, schools, water
systems, wastewater plants havebeen destroyed.

(01:04:55):
Under Trump supporting, and bythe way, what bothers me is an
American, we have given underBiden and under Trump$22 billion
to Netanyahu's extremistgovernment, which for the last
month or two have been starvingchildren.

(01:05:15):
That has been their policy.
That's right.
So, Caitlin, when you talk aboutare we overjoyed that the
hostages are back, the prisonersare released, that finally there
is peace, hopefully, hopefullyit lasts.
Yes, absolutely.
This is not a time for credit.
This is a time to think aboutAmerican policy.
Are we happy that we have giventens of billions of dollars to

(01:05:39):
destroy the Palestinian people?
Israel had a right to defenditself.
They were attacked by aterrorist group.
They did not have a right to goto all that war against women
and children in Gaza.

SPEAKER_11 (01:05:49):
And moreover, on this issue as well, is that we
may have an announcement arounda ceasefire, but Gaza has been
flattened.
Tens of thousands of people aredead, universities gone,
hospitals eliminated, withAmerican-made bombs, with our

(01:06:13):
tax dollars, while you and meand our families can't even
afford to put food on the table.
And so I welcome the cessationof these bombs dropping in Gaza,
but I don't it the devastationof everything that we have

(01:06:36):
endured up until this point isnot something that I think we
should celebrate.
The United States played a rolein all of this destruction to
begin with, by enabling BenjaminNetanyahu in in dropping all of
these bombs by refusing toenforce our own American laws
and the Leahy laws on the books,which says that we cannot be

(01:06:59):
transferring weapons to forcesthat are engaged in gross human
rights violations.
And we look the other waybecause we deem them an ally.

SPEAKER_12 (01:07:07):
And you're saying that's not something that you're
uh a criticism that you're justapplying to President Trump in
terms of.

SPEAKER_11 (01:07:12):
No, President Biden did it, President Biden did it,
and I have and I have absolutelyuh said that to him in in person
as well.
Bernie and I.

SPEAKER_04 (01:07:22):
We spent a long time with President Biden trying to
make the case.

SPEAKER_11 (01:07:25):
Given that we've I've given President Biden hell
about this, and President Trumphas absolutely been part of this
problem as well.
In fact, he was uh braggingpublicly about Benjamin
Netanyahu ringing him up andasking for all these kinds of
bombs that he doesn't even knowthe United States has and him
signing off on it.

SPEAKER_12 (01:07:42):
Can I ask you just to finish on this, Senator
Sanders, though?
But President Trump might lookat this and say, Well, we had an
agreement.
It was my negotiators who gotHamas to the table and Israel to
the table and had Egypt and theQataris help broker this.
And he says, Well, at leastthere's no fighting now.
Look, he's wanting to bring thismore to it.

SPEAKER_04 (01:07:59):
Every sane person, and certainly the people in Gaza
and Israel are delighted withthe ceasefire.
We hope it holds.
The United States essentiallyfunded this war.
If I am funding you, all I gotto do is say, hey, Benjamin,
guess what?
You end this war right now, nomore money, no more bombs, no

(01:08:20):
more other military support.
In other words, the UnitedStates has been from day one
under Biden, under Trump, in theprivacy.

SPEAKER_12 (01:08:29):
We've got more questions from our audience here
tonight, Representative.
This one's for you, actually,and thank you so much for being
here.
This is Justin Ho, who is astudent at Howard University,
and also a member of the Collegeof Democrats from Burlington
Township, New Jersey.
Thank you for being here.
What's your question for therepresentative?

SPEAKER_00 (01:08:44):
Thank you.
Congresswoman Ocasio Cortez, um,you endorsed Jo Ron and Dominic
in New York City Mayor race, butseveral prominent Democrats,
including Senate Majority LeaderChuck Schumer and House Minority
Leader Hakeem Jeffries, have notyet endorsed them.
What do you believe this saysabout the current divide between
the progressive andestablishment wings of the
Democratic Party?
And what effect do you thinkthis has on party unity?

SPEAKER_11 (01:09:05):
Well, I mean, I have uh stated this for quite some
time, uh, which is thatDemocrats have primaries for a
reason.
We may have our differencesamongst one another within the
party.
Some may be more conservative,some may be more liberal, or or
any other number of differences.

(01:09:26):
That's what we have primariesfor.
I believe in endorsing thenominee of a party after a
primary has resolved itself.
And the reason I say that isbecause I worry that when we
don't follow that principle, infact, it is most important to

(01:09:46):
follow that principle when thewinner of the primary is not
someone we agree with.
You know, I I I endorsed Berniein 2020 when he ran against
President Biden.
President Biden won thatnomination.
And we all had to come togetherand do the work of supporting
our party's nominee in order tomake sure that we win.

(01:10:10):
And so I do worry about theexample it sets when our leaders
do not support the partynominee, because in the future
we will need we will need folksto rally behind the presidential
nominee.
And if that nominee is moremoderate, or if that nominee is
more progressive, and we'resetting the precedent of not

(01:10:34):
endorsing the nominee unless weagree with them, I worry about
what example that that sets.
And so I have made myself veryclear about that.
But my hope is that it's nevertoo late to do the right thing.
And election day is just a monthaway, just three weeks away.

SPEAKER_12 (01:10:52):
And so um, so it sounds like you're calling on
Nikem Jeffries and ChuckSchubert to endorse the wrong.

SPEAKER_11 (01:10:57):
I think I think I believe that and I I do believe
in endorsing the nominee, and Ithink it's the right thing to
do.
Well, Sergio Sanders, you agree.

SPEAKER_04 (01:11:06):
She's much nicer than nicer to people.
Look, take a look.
You had a Democratic Party,there's no great secret, that's
kind of in the doltrums rightnow.
Everybody acknowledges that.
Guy's running an extraordinarycampaign.
He has something like 80,000volunteers knocking on doors.

(01:11:28):
He is bringing people out who'venever voted.
He's bringing blacks and whitesand Latinos and Asians,
everybody together around areally strong agenda talking
about affordability in New York.
What is not to like?
This should be the kind ofcandidate that Democrats want in

(01:11:48):
every state in the country.
Strong grassroots campaigns, awillingness to take on the
oligarchs and the big moneyinterests, stand up for working
class people.
So, really, that's a greatquestion, but it comes, it's
very deep because it talks aboutthe future of the Democratic
Party.

SPEAKER_12 (01:12:04):
But are you speaking directly to Hakeem Jeffries and
Chuck Schumer when you used todeliver that message?

SPEAKER_04 (01:12:08):
Sure I am.
Okay, are we watching this?
I don't know.
Well, look, it is two things.
Of course, Alexander Schumer'sright, he's the Democratic
nominee.
How do you not support theDemocratic nominee?
But more importantly, who elseare we going to support?
He's a great candidate.
This should be the problem.
What we want, you know, we havepolitical problems in America.
People are giving up on thepolitical process.

(01:12:30):
He's getting people excited,getting them involved.
I would like to see that takeplace in 50 states of this
country.

SPEAKER_12 (01:12:36):
On that front, we have another question here.
Sardana is a software engineerfrom Alexandria, Virginia, and
you have volunteered fordemocratic campaigns.
Uh, what's your question forSenator Sanders?

SPEAKER_02 (01:12:47):
Hi.
Uh on the issue of health care,a lot of the clinics and
hospitals that are negativelyaffected the most under the one
big beautiful bill are locatedin rural, mostly Republican
areas.
A lot of the increases inAffordable Care Act premiums
that Democrats are fighting toprevent are concentrated in more
rural Republican areas.

(01:13:08):
If the Republicans are soinsistent on sticking it to
their own voters on this issue,why don't the Democrats just let
them?

SPEAKER_04 (01:13:16):
I think Alexander touched on this before.
And that is, we are, you know,one of the things, and this
really annoys me about Trump, isdividing this country.
Why would I not?
You know, when we hit the road,we were in Idaho, right?
It's the most conservative statein America, I think.
We had many thousands of peoplecoming out.
We are Americans.

(01:13:37):
What you think I would feel okayif somebody in a Republican
state died because they couldn'tget health care?
I would hope not.
I would hope nobody feels thatway.

SPEAKER_11 (01:13:47):
And I I think it also speaks to a big difference
between someone like Trump andsomeone like me or someone like
Bernie, which is that Trumpbelieves that if you don't vote
for him, he doesn't have to beyour leader.
That if you didn't vote for him,that you don't deserve good

(01:14:08):
things to happen to you.
I don't care if someone votedfor me or not.
I don't care if someone is aRepublican or an independent or
a Democrat.
I don't care if someone likes meor not.
That will never change the factthat I'm gonna fight for them to
have health care.
I want MAGA to have health care.

(01:14:32):
I want MAGA to be paid a livingwage.
But he doesn't want people whoare Democrats, or he doesn't
want people based on theirpolitical affiliation to
benefit.
And that is the differencebetween a strongman and an
authoritarian and a leader of ademocracy.

SPEAKER_12 (01:14:55):
Can I just ask you quickly, though, the president
typically the military wouldn'tget paid during a government
shutdown and a program thathelps low-income women, moms,
and babies, uh, the presidenthas ensured that those two get
funded during this governmentshutdown.
Do you support that?
Of course.
Of course, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_11 (01:15:10):
And the House Democrats also introduced uh
legislation to make sure thatthere's that they are um paid as
well.

SPEAKER_12 (01:15:15):
Representative Acasio-Cortez, Senator Sanders,
a few more questions for you.
Stick with us.
We're gonna be right back aftera quick break.
We have a final question fromour audience tonight,

(01:15:36):
Representative.
Uh, I'll start with you.
We've got Christopher Lindsayhere, who's a Republican from
Pim Green Grove, Illinois, whoworks for United Airlines.
Go ahead with your question.

SPEAKER_05 (01:15:44):
Good evening, Senator Sanders, Congresswoman
Ocasio-Cortez.
It's a privilege and an honor tobe speaking to you tonight in
beautiful Washington, D.C.
My question to the both of youis what can Congress do to stop
pointing a finger at each ateach other, work together, and
listen to the words of AbrahamLincoln.
A house divided cannot stand.

SPEAKER_11 (01:16:09):
Well, I mean, I I I can't thank you enough for
invoking that quote in thismoment, because I think when we
zoom out and look at the degreeof political polarization that
we're all experiencing, I don'tthink any one of us likes it.
I don't think any one of usenjoys that we're at a point

(01:16:31):
where friends feel like theirrelationships are in tension,
that family feels like they'rein relationship in tension, that
it feels like you can't say someof those basic things without it
turning into a fight.
It's not good for our country.
And I think we have to lead byexample.

(01:16:53):
I think it's important for us tolead with what we think can work
and the areas that we are ableto find common ground and to
uplift that common ground.
I gave some examples earliertoday.
Bernie has also a tremendousbipartisan record, believe it or
not, um in the House and in theSenate.

(01:17:16):
But that's often not what wehear about.
Congress passes bills, actually,every day, believe it or not,
that are bipartisan in nature.
Um and we never hear about theactual common ground that we
have and the successes that wehave in that.

(01:17:37):
And I actually do believe thatif we charge forward with that a
little bit more.
You know, last year I spent alot of work uh doing uh
preventing sexually exploitedmaterial generated by AI and
protecting women and children.
And I was happy to have enjoyedbipartisan support on that.

(01:18:00):
Um, but we often hear firstabout the things that divide us,
and we rarely hear uh about thethings that have actually united
us.
And so I do believe we should beleading by example.
And when we have these momentsof stark contrast, that we also
are clear about the principlesupon which our disagreements

(01:18:20):
happen.
If I disagree with you, if I asa Democrat disagree with you as
a Republican, I'm not going toquestion your motive.
I'm not going to question yourallegiance to this country.
I'm not going to question yourintent and your care.
And I believe that when wedevolve into that, that is when

(01:18:42):
we are actually stoking divisionin our country.
We call those who disagree withus un-American.
That is what is un-American.
And I could not um advocate morefor the fact of sticking to the
facts about things, respectingand honoring the intentions and

(01:19:03):
motives of our fellow Americans,uh, and also trying to elevate
and find the areas that we dohave common ground and
agreement.

SPEAKER_04 (01:19:11):
I I think Alexander said it very well.
I mean, I would just add as anexample.
Uh, this Saturday, millions ofpeople are going to come out on
a Milky Day.
Maybe more people coming outthan any time in American
history.
Speaker Johnson said this is ahate America rally.
Because people are coming outexpressing their concerns about

(01:19:32):
massive cuts to health care andthe movement toward
authoritarians.
Gotta hate America, so loveAmerica.
But the point is, instead ofattacking each other in that
way, in my view, what we got todo is lay the issues out on the
table.
We've got a healthcare crisis.
Do we not friends?
All right.
We're the only country not toguarantee healthcare at all.
How do we move to a healthcaresystem that guarantees

(01:19:54):
healthcare to young rights?
Make sense to you?
All right.
70, 80 years ago in thiscountry, if you went to a public
college or university, you knowwhat your tuition was?
Zero.
And yet you got all of thisincreased worker productivity,
all of the technology peoplecan't afford their kids, can't

(01:20:15):
afford to send their kids tocollege, they can't afford
childcare.
People are paying outrageouscosts in housing.
How do we build the millions ofunits of affordable low-income
housing that we desperatelyneed?
How do we save the planet forour kids and transform our
energy system away from fossilfuel?

(01:20:35):
Do you know that millions ofsenior citizens in this country
are trying to get buying on$15,000 a year or less?
They help build this country.
They fought for our country.
They're in nursing homes, whichare horrible places right now
because they're underfunded,understaffed.
We are the richest country inthe history of the world.
How do we provide a good qualitylife for our kids?

(01:20:57):
Should we have the highest rateof childhood poverty of almost
any major nation?
Highest rate of senior poverty.
Those are the issues.
You disagree with me?
Fine.
You got a better idea than mine?
Great.
Let's go forward.
Let's discuss those issues.
Let's not attack each otherpersonally, that we're
un-America, that we hateAmerica, that's nonsense.

(01:21:17):
That just divides us.
Let's come together, let'sdiscuss the real issues.
Let us create the kind ofextraordinary country that we
know we can create.

SPEAKER_12 (01:21:26):
On that note, Senator Sanders, Representative
Alexander Ocasio Cortez.
Thank you both for being heretonight.
Thank you to our audience andfor your excellent questions.
We really appreciate themtonight.
Thank you all for joining intonight with Abby Philip
starting out.