Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
Darrell McLean show independent media that won't
reinforce tribalism.
We have one planet.
Nobody is leaving, so let usreason to gather.
So I'm gonna talk aboutsomething that happened in the
Commonwealth of Virginia.
Today has something to startoff this conversation and today.
(00:25):
So I'm going to start off thisconversation and let's get to
the straight news portion of itbefore I try to explain it in a
fuller context.
So what actually happened was aDanville city councilman, lee
Volger, age 38, was violentlyattacked at his workplace
showcase magazine office.
He was reportedly doused withgasoline from a five gallon
(00:50):
bucket and set on fire around 1130 am in a shared office
building in downtown danville.
The suspect was the assailantuh shot to see michael buck
hayes, 29, a known acquaintanceof vulgar, and he is in custody
(01:12):
facing charges of attemptedfirst degree murder and
aggravated malicious wounding.
He remains held without bond inDanville City Jail.
The investigators' findingsindicate the motive behind the
attack was personal in natureand not politically motivated or
(01:33):
tied to vulgar.
Public service Authoritiesconfirmed the two men knew each
other and the assault wasunrelated to his role on city
council and the assault wasunrelated to his role on City
Council.
Witnesses' accounts andstatements from the Showcase
magazine owner, andrew Books,described how Hayes forced his
way into the locked office,poured gasoline over Volga, who
(01:57):
fled through the office and outthe front where Hayes ignited
him.
Two employees were present atthe time and helped summon
emergency services.
Vogler's condition is.
He sustained serious burninjuries but was conscious and
able to identify his attackerwhile being treated and
(02:20):
airlifted to a burn unit inNorth Carolina, initially
Lynchburg, then to the UNC burnclinic.
Local officials, includingDanville Mayor Alonzo Jones,
vice Mayor James Bunker andVirginia Governor Glenn Youngkin
, have publicly condemned theattack and called for prayers
for Volger and solidarity acrossthe community, for Volger and
(02:45):
solidarity across the community.
Volger was first elected toDanville City Council May of
2012 at the age of 24, becomingthe youngest council member in
the city history.
He is currently serving hisfourth term, which began in
January 2025 and runs throughDecember of 2029.
And runs through December of2029.
(03:07):
He's also a managing partner ofAndrew Book's media group and
actively involved in communitylife.
The attack adds to a troublingwave of violence targeting
public officials in recentmonths.
Though the case investigatorsemphasize no political
motivations, focus recoveryremains the focus and the
(03:27):
community support continues togrow.
So this is kind of how I'mgoing to address it here.
When we say public service andfor some people that just means
(03:51):
a city council meeting once amonth, some zoning disputes,
ribbon cuttings and occasionalparade but for others, those who
really serve, it's a commitmentdeeper than a title.
And today we have to talk aboutwhat happens when that
community is met not withrespect or disagreement, but
with violence.
(04:13):
This is not just a story aboutLee Volger, a city councilman
from Danville, virginia.
It's not about a man set onfire with a five gallon basket
of gasoline at his workplace inbroad daylight.
What we are witnessing, whatwe're being forced to reckon
with, is the disintegration ofthe basic social fabric that
(04:36):
holds this republic together, asociety where disagreements are
handled not with words, not evenwith protests, but with fire.
Let me say this very plainly Aman was set on fire while doing
his job, and that hauntsCouncilman.
Lee Volker wasn't caught insome war zone, he wasn't out in
(05:01):
Gaza, he wasn't in Ukraine orYemen.
He was in an office at a localmagazine, doing the kind of work
that builds communities, thekind of work that rarely is
glamorous but is alwaysnecessary.
And into that space, into thatroutine, civic, small town
normalcy, walks a man known toVolga personally, carrying the
(05:22):
kind of hatred you don't justpick up overnight.
To Volger personally, carryingthe kind of hatred you don't
just pick up overnight.
He had gasoline, he had fire,he had intent and he used it.
The fire was not a metaphor, itwas not symbolic rage or
performance art or protest.
It was real.
It melted skin, it threatenedlife, it left trauma in its wake
, not just for Lee Volger's body, but for the souls of every
(05:44):
person who watched the news andrealized we are not safe even in
spaces where we serve.
We've entered a very dangerousera in this country, where
violence has become the nativetongue of grievance, whether
it's school boards or citycouncils, grocery stores or
(06:06):
churches.
Some folks have decided that ifthey are angry enough, they
don't have to argue.
They have to burn somethingdown.
And that's not new.
We've seen it before in Tulsa,in the civil rights movement, in
the assassinations of publicservants who dared to dream
differently.
But what makes this momentchilling is how normalized the
(06:29):
madness has become A man litanother man on fire and in less
than 24 hours it will be buriedin the news cycle under the
weight of political indictmentsand celebrity deaths.
This isn't just about right orleft.
It's about rage replacingreason.
It's about a slow drip ofdehumanization and how it has
(06:53):
allowed us to look at someone wedisagree with and stop seeing
them as human altogether.
And that is not just theinternet doing it, it's pulpits,
it's pundits, it's podcastsEverywhere you turn somebody's
telling you that the person whodisagrees with you isn't just
wrong, they're wicked.
(07:15):
They aren't just mistaken,they're monsters.
And monsters, you see, don'tdeserve mercy.
Monsters deserve death.
Monsters deserve mercy.
Moxers deserve death.
Moxers deserve flames.
When you run for city councilin a place like Danville,
virginia, you don't do it forglory, you don't do it for money
.
You do it because you care,because something in your gut
(07:37):
tells you that potholes matter,that school board policy matters
, that how the trash gets pickedup and how parks get funded and
how budgets are balancedmatters.
Lee Volger was elected at 24years old.
He was young, idealistic, alittle scrappy, and he stuck
with it.
Over a decade of servicealready.
He helped revitalize his town.
(08:00):
He poured energy into hiscommunity and for that for
showing up he got doused ingasoline and lit like a warning
sign.
Now let me ask you something.
Who in their right mind isgoing to want to serve after
seeing that?
What pastor is going to want torun for a school board?
(08:21):
What teacher is going to wantto volunteer for town council?
What single parent is going towant to take time off of their
work schedule to advocate for abetter library when they know
stepping into public life mightget them burned Literally?
We are decentivizing decency,we are scaring away the servants
(08:44):
and when the good people sit itout, the only people who are
going to step in are the cowards, the grifters and the
extremists.
Now some folks will say thiswasn't political, it was
personal, and on paper, sure itwas.
The man was arrested,apparently had a personal
(09:07):
connection to Volger.
Maybe there was some unresolvedbeef, some grievance boiling
under the surface.
But I ask you, what kind ofculture do we live in where
personal anger turns so easilyinto public violence?
It's all connected.
We are training people, throughyears of rage politics and
(09:28):
performative masculinity andzero-sum tribalism, to handle
pain with destruction, to meetdisappointment with blood, to
process humiliation through fire.
We are not raising citizensanymore, we are raising avengers
.
The mayor spoke out, thegovernor gave thoughts and
prayers, local pastors offeredvigils, and all that is good and
(09:51):
all that is necessary.
But let's be real, it is notenough.
This isn't the kind of woundyou patch up with a press
conference.
This is a sickness in theAmerican soul when a man is set
on fire.
Your community doesn't justneed healings, it needs
repentance.
Not just individual spiritualrepentance, but civic repentance
(10:14):
, the kind that makes us askwhat have we become?
How did we let ourselves get sonumb that a headline like a
city council person set ablazedoesn't make us all fall to our
knees?
Now to the people who are theregular church goers.
(10:34):
I have to speak plainly.
Where are we, where are you?
Where is the outcry?
Not just for Lee Volger, butfor every teacher, for every
journalist, for every doctor,for every city clerk or
electrician worker who has beenharassed, stalked, doxxed or
assaulted simply for showing upand doing their job?
(10:55):
We have preachers warning aboutthe spirit of Jezebel.
We have people talking aboutwokeness in Disney, but you
won't hear very many sermons onthe spirit of violence in the
land.
How do we continue to claim tofollow Jesus and stay silent
while your neighborhood burns?
And I don't say that withcondemnation, I say it with a
(11:19):
broken spirit, because I amcompelled not just to pray, I am
compelled also to try toprotect, to be a peacemaker, not
just a peace lover.
So let me bring it back to LeeVolkter.
(11:39):
He's more than a victim.
He's a father, he's a friend,he's a servant, and now he's a
survivor.
He's laying in a hospital bedscarred by a flame, carrying the
memory of a man he once knewwho walked into his office to
try to end his life.
(11:59):
That's not something you bounceback from with ointment.
That's something that tries tochange your soul.
And yet, by all accounts, leeVolger is holding on.
He identified his attacker,he's receiving care and when
asked how he was doing, hereportedly said I'm alive.
Sometimes, survival is the firstact of resistance.
(12:23):
So here we are Another act ofresistance.
So here we are.
Another act of violence,another headline we wish we
hadn't read.
Another chance for us to eitherlook away or to look inward.
And I beg you, don't turn thepage, don't scroll past.
Let the horror sit with you,let the fire be more than a
flicker on our feeds, let itburn through our apathy, because
(12:48):
this story about Lee Voglertoday, but tomorrow it could be
your pastor, your teacher, yourcoach, your city councilman,
your own child, who just happensto be standing up for something
and getting punished for it,not with an argument, but with
ash.
We must decide Will we be thepeople who settle disputes with
(13:09):
votes or with violence?
Will we be a country thatdebates or one that burns?
The time for silence is over.
The fire is not a metaphoranymore.
It's real, it's here, and whatwe have got to choose is who we
will be before this fireconsumes us all great and
(13:36):
perhaps a big part of yourevolution in thinking.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
Have you discussed the crisis in Gaza and the
terrifying I have?
She thinks it's terrible andshe sees the same pictures that
you see and that we all see Ithink everybody unless they're
pretty cold-hearted or worsethan that nuts.
There's nothing you can sayother than it's terrible.
When you see the kids and thoseare kids you know whether they
(14:05):
talk starvation or not.
Those are kids that arestarving.
I mean they are starving.
And you see the mothers.
They love them so much.
There's just nothing they seemto be able to do.
They got to get them food.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
It was a stunning moment to hear the president of
the United States, donald Trump,actually say what even
Democrats like John Fenneman aresaying is not happening.
Donald Trump said that there isstarvation happening in Gaza,
(14:39):
and the president is right onthat issue.
Speaker 4 (14:44):
I feel like I'm watching something that is so
self-evidently inhumane andhorrific and to be told that I
have to shut up because I riskthe Jewish state by speaking out
.
I would say the opposite.
I think they're putting thelikelihood of a surviving Jewish
(15:08):
state much more at risk withthis type of action.
I think they're the ones thatare being anti-Semitism.
If you want to define Netanyahu, the definition of
anti-Semitism would probablyhave to bomb himself.
How the definition ofanti-Semitism would probably
have to bomb himself.
But there's an urgency about itnow because, like right now, in
(15:29):
the situation we can't be like,but Jews are not getting along
with other Jews, like that's notthe important thing right now.
How is the world not steppingin and stopping this atrocity?
I don't understand this in anyway shape or form.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
It's boggling my mind .
It's worse than just notstepping in.
It's our weapons that areenforcing this siege, that is
enforcing this mass starvation.
It's a siege.
It's a military siege, yes,that we are deeply complicit in.
It could not happen without us.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
That last person you heard was Jon Stewart and Peter
Barnard, who wrote a book on theatrocities going on, and it
actually the book is titled um,being Jewish after the
destruction of Gaza, and so, andso the conversation about this
(16:24):
is starting to change.
Even Marjorie Taylor Greene hasbeen courageous and correct on
this issue when it comes to Gaza, and it's making, I guess,
different political bedfellows,and that's making, I guess,
(16:45):
different political bedfellows,and that's what's needed A
coalition that crosses partylines, so much now that even
you're hearing the language fromObama world.
So that's the pot save America,guys.
(17:05):
Uh, john Fabro, and, and thatcrew, you know Obama's old
speech writers, uh, um, and some, some other of his staffers are
starting to say the same thing.
And if the pod saved the worldguys are starting to say it,
then that means that theestablishment of the Democratic
(17:27):
Party is about to change theirtone on this issue.
Speaker 5 (17:36):
And I don't think Democratic candidates should
take money from AIPAC or vote tofund military support for
Israel anymore, Like I reallydon't.
This government absolutely not,and that especially includes, I
think, the next Democraticnominee for president.
Things I want to see.
Speaker 6 (17:48):
Democrats at least calling for is cutting off
military assistance to Israel.
It's a rich country, by the way.
They don't need our $3 billiona year and hands up right.
Barack Obama signed a 10-yearMOU for $3.3 billion a year,
like so we're part of theproblem here.
Let let's correct it.
I would like to see talk aboutsanctioning israeli government
officials who use genocidalrhetoric or talk about ethnic
cleansing openly.
We should support a ceasefireresolution at the un.
We should demand thatinternational press be allowed
(18:11):
into the gaza strip to report onwhat's happening without an ibf
minder.
It's insane.
The press still can't go intogaza and cover what's happening
I also think like there has tobe a total mindset change in the
democratic party when the warends.
We are not going back to thepre-October 7th status quo.
It's not where the party is.
It's not where the world is.
We're not going to shovelbillions a year in military aid.
We're not going to veto everyeffort to recognize the
Palestinian state at the UN.
(18:31):
We should not take money fromAIPAC and, like I, will hold out
hope for better politicalleadership in the US and in
Israel.
But we also have to recognizethat the Biden era hug Bibi
Netanyahu strategy has to bethrown in the trash can for
fucking ever.
Netanyahu is a bad actor.
He's continuing a war forpolitical purposes.
He bombs Lebanon when he wantsto.
He bombs Iran when he wants to.
He bombs Syria when he wants to.
(18:52):
This is not a partner we cancount on.
This is not someone who is likeleading to calm and stability
in the region, which should be acore interest.
Speaker 5 (18:59):
Like at this point.
Cutting off military fundingfor a government that is
starving two million people andadvertising how they're
ethnically cleansing thePalestinians seems like the
least we can do, Especially ifwe're going to head into a
primary like, table stakes isgoing to be no more military aid
for Israel.
Speaker 7 (19:13):
So there will just will have to be a shift, and I
do think that will mean puttingfar more pressure on Israel, and
that's what I think Democratswant.
By the way, that's what thecountry wants, and when you pull
Israelis, they say they want afucking ceasefire.
Israelis want the hostagesreturned through a negotiated
settlement and, by the way,that's the way in which the vast
majority of hostages who werereturned were able to be
returned.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
So there we have it.
What we are witnessing in Gazais not merely a tragedy.
It's, more precisely, adeliberately engineered
catastrophe, what some haveactually called a famine by
design.
So we have to be clear on thisStarvation is not an unintended
(19:54):
consequence of war.
It is the byproduct of a tragicmisunderstanding.
It is policy implemented andsustained by powerful actors
with full knowledge of the humancost the people of Gaza, which,
over two million of them, aretrapped and what has been long
(20:15):
described by internationalobservers as the world's largest
open-air prison.
But even that term now fallsshort, because, you see, in
prison there's at very least abaseline assumption that you're
going to get food and thatyou're going to get water and
that you're going to get basiccare.
Gaza, on the other hand, hasbeen systematically deprived of
(20:37):
even that.
And we're no longer talkingabout just a blockade, we are
talking about siege warfare witha very specific intent of
collective punishment.
So let's recall the history fora moment.
The Geneva Convention hadhard-won principles carved out
after the destruction and thedevastation that came after
(21:00):
World War II.
Explicitly, it forbade the useof starvation as a weapon
against civilian populations.
It is actually considered a warcrime.
Yet when we examine the Israelimilitary and the political
discourse surrounding Gaza, thelanguage is often disturbingly
frank.
Former Israeli officials havespoken of putting the population
(21:24):
on a diet and creatingconditions of pressure into the
people.
Quote turn against hamas.
This is not ambiguous.
This is starvation deployed asa strategic lever.
Now, of course, there will bethose who insist that hamas is
to blame for the suffering ofthe palestinian people, and it
is important to scrutinize allactors.
(21:45):
But the asymmetry here isoverwhelming.
We are not talking aboutequivalent powers locked in a
conflict.
We're talking about one of theworld's most advanced militaries
, targeted A targeting abesieged and stateless
population.
Half of those people in thatpopulation whom are children?
(22:10):
So I'm going to repeat thatagain Half of the population of
Gaza are children.
Children who have no say inpolitics of the region, no voice
in the international media andno protection from the economic,
physical or psychologicalwarfare being waged around them.
And what the internationalcommunity is doing?
(22:32):
What about the United States?
What about the European Union?
What about the so-calledrules-based order?
Well, what we see is what wehave seen for decades Rhetorical
concern followed by materialcomplicity.
Billions of military aid flowfreely, diplomatic cover is
(22:55):
given reflexively and medianarratives are carefully framed
to suggest complexity wherethere is in fact profound,
profound moral clarity.
This is actually not a hard case.
Starving people is wrong.
Withholding food and medicineis wrong.
Trafficking population, thencutting off their means to
survival, is wrong.
(23:16):
What is difficult isconfronting the reality that
those policies are being carriedout with our tax dollars, our
political alliances, our silence, and I already talked about
this on the show yesterday.
What about the church?
What about the institution thatclaims to speak on behalf of
(23:37):
moral truth?
Well, I would suggest thattheir silence is not neutral,
it's structural.
The American church,particularly its evangelical
wing, has for decades sacralizedthe state of Israel, not in
theological nuance, but innationalist abstraction.
(23:59):
Gaza doesn't fit into theeschatology, so it is ignored
conveniently and comfortably.
But silence in the case,especially in this case, is not
the absence of noise, it is thepresence of consent.
So what are we left with?
(24:20):
We're left with a choice.
What are we left with?
We're left with a choice Eitherwe continue to remove ourselves
with geopoliticaljustifications, or we recognize
the plain horror of what ishappening and name it for what
it is a siege, a starvationcampaign, a war crime.
(24:42):
History will not be kind topeople who looked away, but,
more importantly, neither willthe children of Gaza.
If they survive this and manywill not they will remember that
the world watched them gohungry and said nothing.
So perhaps it's time to saysomething Anything.
Speaker 8 (25:11):
Ever since the start of the destruction of Gaza by
the Israeli government followingthe October 7th attack, there
have been all kinds of concernsthat one of the things the
Israeli government would do isimpose mass starvation and
famine on the population of 2.2million people of Gaza.
At least, that was thepopulation when all this began,
half of whom half of thatpopulation 1.1 million are
(25:33):
children, are under the age of18.
And this has been somethingwe've seen evidence of and in
part, people were concernedabout it because the Israeli
government immediately announcedthat that was their intention.
And we've now gotten to thepoint after a full scale Israeli
blockade and by blockade Idon't mean that Israel is
failing to feed the people ofGaza.
(25:53):
I mean that the people andgroups and organizations that
are trying to bring food intoGaza are physically impeded from
doing so by the IDF.
As a result of official Israelipolicy, there was a complete
and full blockade for threemonths.
At the same time, they'veimposed policies such as
destroying any fields or plantswhere food could grow.
They are now killing or at theleast arresting anybody who
(26:16):
tries to just go a little bitout Remember, gaza has a beach
and a sea to try and fish forfood that is prohibited.
It clearly is a policy designedto starve the population to
death, which is why even israeliexperts in genocide, who long
resisted applying the wordgenocide to what israel is doing
in gaza, have now relented andsaid it's the only word that
(26:36):
applies, and the number ofgroups and governments and
people who previously supportedwhat israel was doing or at
least refused to acknowledge thefull extent of the atrocities,
have now, in their view, nochoice to do so.
The evidence is starting tobecome so overwhelming that only
the hardest core Israelloyalists are allowed to try and
deny it or blame somebody elsefor it.
(26:58):
Here from ABC News today, morethan 108 groups warned of quote
mass starvation in Gaza amidIsrael's war with Hamas.
Their statement warned of quoterecord rates of acute
malnutrition.
And it's eight groups and WorldHealth Organization and groups
from all over the planet thathave immense credibility in
having worked with conflictsmany times before.
(27:19):
A leading Israeli newspaper,which has been more critical of
the Netanyahu government thanmost but which, at the same time
, was supportive for months ofwhat Israel was doing in Gaza
following October 7th, which isthe Israeli Daily Heretz, had in
its lead editorial yesterdaythe editorial under this
(27:40):
headline Israel is starving Gaza.
And the language they used wasso clear, straightforward,
direct that it's unimaginable tothink of any Western media
outlet, large, corporate Westernmedia outlet, saying anything
similar Quote the famine thathas been created in Gaza is
(28:02):
another facet of Israel's cruelinhumanity toward the people of
Gaza.
It constitutes a war crime anda crime against humanity and is
a clear violation of the ordersissued a year and a half ago by
the International Court ofJustice in the Hague.
The famine does not contributeanything to the war effort
(28:22):
against Hamas.
Its gunmen will be the last tosuffer hunger in Gaza.
War effort against Hamas.
Its gunmen will be the last tosuffer hunger in Gaza.
Before that, it will bechildren, women and Israeli
hostages still captive there whostarve.
Last week we interviewed aleading scholar of famine
Actually, I believe that wasthis Monday who has studied
famines around the world for hisentire life, and not only did
he describe how what's takingplace in gaza is unprecedented,
(28:45):
at least since world war ii,because of how minutely planned
it is and because they're unlikefamine, say, in ethiopia or
sudan or yemen.
There are all sorts oforganizations with immense
expertise and resources who,just a couple of miles away from
where children are starving todeath, have huge amounts of food
and other aid that they want tobring to the people of Gaza,
(29:07):
yet are blocked from doing so bythe IDF.
And although I suppose it'sencouraging, or at least better
than the alternative, that evenWestern governments and the
longstanding Israel supporterswho are American politicians are
now issuing statements abouthow disturbed they are by the
mass famine in Gaza, how Israelneeds to immediately cease this
(29:29):
inhumane activity, none of thisis surprising.
None of it is new.
Israel made very clear from thevery beginning what exactly
their intentions were, andpeople just decided that they
were too scared to stand up andobject at the time.
Here's a reminder this isseptember.
(29:49):
I think this is october second,october 10th, not september.
Right, it's october 10th.
I live on date on the screen I2023.
Quote no electricity, food,water or gas.
Israel orders quote a completeGaza siege.
Oftentimes you hear that it'sonly far right extremist
(30:11):
ministers in Netanyahu'sgovernment who say things like
this, like Ben-Gavir orStrombich or people like that.
But in reality, the Israelidefense minister was one of the
moderate people, comparatively,at the start of the war, to the
point where net now who ended upousting him, and he was the one
who announced the followingquote israel, israel's defense
(30:32):
minister, yoav galant, hasordered a complete siege on the
gaza strip, saying israeliauthorities would cut
electricity and block the entryof food, water and fuel In April
(30:53):
of this year.
Just three months ago, anotherIsraeli minister, smatrich, said
at a conference quote not evena grain of wheat will enter Gaza
, proudly boasting of theactions that the Israeli
military, the Israeli government, intended to take, and then
took in his words to ensure thatnot even a grain of wheat
entered a place where 2.2million people, or 2 million
people, or 1.9 million peopleare clinging to survival in
(31:18):
between, dodging shelling fromtanks and bombs and having
everything from schools and UNrefugees and even their own
tents from being blown up.
From CNN, may 1st 2025, gazaedges closer to famine as
Israel's total blockade near itsthird month.
(31:41):
So, just as a reminder, it wasin February, after Trump was
inaugurated, that Israelexplicitly announced to the
world that it was blockading allfood from entering Gaza.
They didn't hide it, it wasn'tin dispute, it wasn't in doubt.
It was an official Israelipolicy to starve the entire
population, which is collectivepunishment, as a way of forcing
(32:03):
Hamas to negotiate or tosurrender that the Nazis, who
did things similarly like starveentire cities, starve entire
(32:25):
ghettos of Jews, were treated aswar criminals and held
responsible and actuallyexecuted.
So none of this is new for allthe people who are now just
seeing the babies who areemaciated in skin and bones and
dying of malnutrition, andincreasingly older children and
adults as well, to suddenly comeout and say oh my God, I can't
believe this.
What have we been supporting?
This has to stop.
(32:45):
This is all months in themaking and, as hunger experts
and famine groups will tell you,once it gets to this stage
where people are actually dyingnow of famine in large numbers,
it becomes irreversible.
Irreversible physically because, even if you get the food in,
their bodies aren't equipped toprocess it.
(33:06):
They need much more extensivemedical care than that and, of
course, in children it impedesbrain growth for life and
physical vitality for life, tosay nothing of the mass death
from starvation which we're nowstarting to see.
Here is from the NPR on May 13th.
(33:30):
Quote since early March,shortly before the breakdown of
a tenuous ceasefire, israel hasbeen imposing a blockade of Gaza
, denying the entry of all goods, including food, medical
supplies and critical supplies.
Quote.
Now the entire population isfacing high levels of acute food
insecurity, with one in fivepeople facing starvation,
(33:54):
according to the most recentreport from the Integrated Food
Security Phase classification.
That's why all these suddenattempts to distance oneself
that we're seeing from Westerngovernments and Western
politicians is utterlynauseating.
They're the ones who enabled it, they're the ones who have been
(34:14):
paying for it, they're the oneswho have been arming it,
they're the ones who have beencheering for it, despite Israeli
vows to starve to death thepeople of Gaza.
We've been hearing for a yearand a half about stories of
doctors in Gaza having toperform major surgeries,
amputations on children, withoutso much as any painkillers, let
alone anesthesia.
Horror stories of the worstkind imaginable, of evidence so
(34:48):
conclusive and so indisputablefrom so many different sources,
that it's essentially becomeimpossible for denialists of
these atrocities to maintaintheir denialism any longer.
There's been a long trend,basically Israel and it has
trained its loyalists throughoutthe West Anytime there's a
study, anytime there's apronouncement, anytime there's a
finding or a criticism, toimmediately say, oh, you can't
(35:09):
listen to them.
They're anti-Semitic, they hateIsrael, they lie to attack
Israel, they're even guilty ofblood libel.
So if you present a UN report,that's instantaneous.
If you hear from journalists inGaza, even showing video.
They're all liars.
They're all anti-Semitic hatersof Israel, the Israeli daily
(35:32):
heretics oh, throw everythingthey say out.
But now we're starting to seeall sorts of Western doctors,
and these doctors are people whobelong to groups like Doctors
Without Borders, which I'vealways described as one of the
noblest things you can do.
You go to school for years, youhave medical training, you
become a surgeon, you become aspecialist in your field,
(35:55):
treating all kinds of majorinjuries, and instead of staying
in London or Beverly Hills orMiami or Paris and making
massive amounts of moneytreating wealthy people, you
volunteer to go around the worldto war zones that are very
dangerous, where countries don'thave the sufficient medical
expertise to treat people whoare being harmed or killed by
(36:17):
the byproducts of war, in orderto save as many lives as you
possibly can.
These people don't just go toplaces where there are Israeli
bombs falling.
They've been all over the worldin multiple war zones, and the
bravest of them have been goingto Gaza.
We've been hearing from themAmerican nurses, american
doctors, western doctors andmedical workers and what they're
(36:39):
now coming back and saying aresome of the most horrifying
things you will ever hear.
And how is it possible forIsrael loyalists to just
constantly dismiss all of thesepeople as anti-Semitic liars or
fabulous or guilty of theater?
These are people describingwhat they've seen with their own
eyes and, unlike in the UnitedStates, where there's still
(37:00):
mostly a blackout of this kindof reporting, in the UK it's
starting to really seep throughinto mainstream television
outlets.
Despite the long history of theUK's steadfast support for
Israel, including right up untilthis day where the Starmer
government the government ofSarkir Starmer, the Labour
(37:21):
government flies reconnaissancemissions over gaza, provides
weapons to israel.
Here is, uh, nick maynard.
He's a british physician whowas on the mainstream program
good morning britain it's justlike good morning america in the
united states and he got backfrom gaza.
Speaker 9 (37:40):
He's a surgeon and here's what he described in his
own words now, of course, youknow the idf will claim that
their intention is not massstarvation.
However and I want to warnpeople here, because what we're
about to talk about now, whichI've already talked about
already, is just astonishing,and I don't think this is it
doesn't matter which side you'reon, even if, indeed, you are on
a side this particular accountof what you've seen about the
(38:01):
pattern of injuries, your claimsof what you think the idf
soldiers are doing to causethese injuries, is alarming.
Would you mind explaining?
Speaker 1 (38:11):
that to us.
Yes, I mean I.
One of the big differencesbetween this most recent trip
these last four weeks I've beenin gaza was the large number of
gunshot wounds.
I've seen in previous trips aspredominantly explosive injuries
from bombs, but I saw on thisoccasion multiple gunshot wounds
, almost exclusively on youngteenage males, some of them as
young as 11, 12, 13, 14, all ofwhom had been shot at the food
(38:34):
distribution points so-calledGhazi Humanitarian Foundation
food distribution points and thepattern of injuries, the
stories I was getting from theirfamilies, from the patients and
indeed from GARS and healthcareworkers who went to these food
points to get food forthemselves.
One of the nieces used to gobetween operations to get food,
(38:56):
but I saw terrible injuries tothe abdomen and the chest.
But there was a very clearpattern of injuries, a cluster
of injuries to specific bodyparts on particular days.
So one day, for example, we'dsee patients coming in with
gunshot wounds just to the headand neck.
On another day they'd be comingin with gunshot wounds to the
chest or the abdomen.
(39:17):
The next day, the legs.
On one day, about 12 days ago,we saw four young teenage boys
13, 13, 14, all of whom had beenshot specifically in the
testicles.
So the very clear clustering ofthese injuries appeared to us
like a target practice.
A game was being played.
Speaker 10 (39:35):
We should point out, yeah, that Israel have said,
you know they don'tintentionally shoot civilians.
Speaker 8 (39:40):
Troops near the aid sites have been firing warning
shots and they say they work tominimize friction between the
population and forces as much aspossible he just gets done
saying exactly what he's beenseeing that every day they kind
of for fun, almost idf soldierspick which part of the body
they're going to snipe youngchildren, teenagers, young
(40:01):
teenagers, with oh today, theirheads.
They'll, their chest, how abouttheir kneecaps?
How?
How about their testicles?
And they come in with clutcheswith all the same injury.
We've been hearing stories ofIDF soldiers purposely targeting
young boys who come in withbullets in their brains.
We've been hearing about thisfor quite a long time now he's
(40:22):
in Gaza.
He's seen exactly what he'sdescribing.
Quite a long time now he's inGaza.
He's seen exactly what he'sdescribing.
Here he is again talking aboutsomething, in one way, not quite
as brutal, but in another way,almost more horrific in terms of
the intentionality that itshows in terms of what the
(40:43):
Israeli government and the IDFare actually up to in terms of
their objectives in Gaza.
Speaker 10 (40:46):
You were saying to us that your colleagues that
have tried to help who've triedto take baby formula in, for
example have been prevented fromdoing so.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
Yes, absolutely.
I mean I spent quite a bit oftime on the pediatric intensive
care unit because I havepatients there appalling
malnutrition and a lot ofdoctors I know who have taken in
formula feed because they knewthere was such a shortage.
Speaker 9 (41:10):
None has been allowed in by the Israelis since the
last week you go through acheckpoint, you get searched as
a doctor and if you've got anybaby formula in your pockets or
in your bag, they want toconfiscate it from you, very
specifically confiscating thatNothing else.
Speaker 1 (41:24):
They confiscated every single, specifically
confiscating that nothing else.
Um, they confiscated everysingle carton of formula feed
that these doctors would take,can you?
Speaker 9 (41:31):
think of any other, any reason other than they just
don't want you to give it to thebaby.
Speaker 1 (41:34):
We, we we're very cautious in what we're, what we
take in, because we know muchwill be confiscated and
certainly they always sayanything that could be remotely
used as a weapon, such assurgical, surgical instruments,
we can't take in.
But I cannot think of anyreason why they would confiscate
a formula feed.
Speaker 8 (41:50):
If you are deliberately preventing the
entrance into Gaza of babyformula, knowing that there is
severe malnutrition among thewomen giving birth to these
babies, and not when Hamasoperatives are trying to bring
them in, but from Westerndoctors who work with
organizations known around theworld for treating people with
injuries in war zones.
(42:11):
If that isn't evidence ofgenocidal intent, someone needs
to tell me what is.
Welcome to the.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
Darrell McLean show independent media that won't
reinforce tribalism.
We have one planet.
Nobody is leaving, so let usreason to gather.
So I'm gonna talk aboutsomething that happened in the
Commonwealth of Virginia.
Today has something to startoff this conversation and today.
(00:25):
So I'm going to start off thisconversation and let's get to
the straight news portion of itbefore I try to explain it in a
fuller context.
So what actually happened was aDanville city councilman, lee
Volger, age 38, was violentlyattacked at his workplace
showcase magazine office.
He was reportedly doused withgasoline from a five gallon
(00:50):
bucket and set on fire around 1130 am in a shared office
building in downtown danville.
The suspect was the assailantuh shot to see michael buck
hayes, 29, a known acquaintanceof vulgar, and he is in custody
(01:12):
facing charges of attemptedfirst degree murder and
aggravated malicious wounding.
He remains held without bond inDanville City Jail.
The investigators' findingsindicate the motive behind the
attack was personal in natureand not politically motivated or
(01:33):
tied to vulgar.
Public service Authoritiesconfirmed the two men knew each
other and the assault wasunrelated to his role on city
council and the assault wasunrelated to his role on City
Council.
Witnesses' accounts andstatements from the Showcase
magazine owner, andrew Books,described how Hayes forced his
way into the locked office,poured gasoline over Volga, who
(01:57):
fled through the office and outthe front where Hayes ignited
him.
Two employees were present atthe time and helped summon
emergency services.
Vogler's condition is.
He sustained serious burninjuries but was conscious and
able to identify his attackerwhile being treated and
(02:20):
airlifted to a burn unit inNorth Carolina, initially
Lynchburg, then to the UNC burnclinic.
Local officials, includingDanville Mayor Alonzo Jones,
vice Mayor James Bunker andVirginia Governor Glenn Youngkin
, have publicly condemned theattack and called for prayers
for Volger and solidarity acrossthe community, for Volger and
(02:45):
solidarity across the community.
Volger was first elected toDanville City Council May of
2012 at the age of 24, becomingthe youngest council member in
the city history.
He is currently serving hisfourth term, which began in
January 2025 and runs throughDecember of 2029.
And runs through December of2029.
(03:07):
He's also a managing partner ofAndrew Book's media group and
actively involved in communitylife.
The attack adds to a troublingwave of violence targeting
public officials in recentmonths.
Though the case investigatorsemphasize no political
motivations, focus recoveryremains the focus and the
(03:27):
community support continues togrow.
So this is kind of how I'mgoing to address it here.
When we say public service andfor some people that just means
(03:51):
a city council meeting once amonth, some zoning disputes,
ribbon cuttings and occasionalparade but for others, those who
really serve, it's a commitmentdeeper than a title.
And today we have to talk aboutwhat happens when that
community is met not withrespect or disagreement, but
with violence.
(04:13):
This is not just a story aboutLee Volger, a city councilman
from Danville, virginia.
It's not about a man set onfire with a five gallon basket
of gasoline at his workplace inbroad daylight.
What we are witnessing, whatwe're being forced to reckon
with, is the disintegration ofthe basic social fabric that
(04:36):
holds this republic together, asociety where disagreements are
handled not with words, not evenwith protests, but with fire.
Let me say this very plainly Aman was set on fire while doing
his job, and that hauntsCouncilman.
Lee Volker wasn't caught insome war zone, he wasn't out in
(05:01):
Gaza, he wasn't in Ukraine orYemen.
He was in an office at a localmagazine, doing the kind of work
that builds communities, thekind of work that rarely is
glamorous but is alwaysnecessary.
And into that space, into thatroutine, civic, small town
normalcy, walks a man known toVolga personally, carrying the
(05:22):
kind of hatred you don't justpick up overnight.
To Volger personally, carryingthe kind of hatred you don't
just pick up overnight.
He had gasoline, he had fire,he had intent and he used it.
The fire was not a metaphor, itwas not symbolic rage or
performance art or protest.
It was real.
It melted skin, it threatenedlife, it left trauma in its wake
, not just for Lee Volger's body, but for the souls of every
(05:44):
person who watched the news andrealized we are not safe even in
spaces where we serve.
We've entered a very dangerousera in this country, where
violence has become the nativetongue of grievance, whether
it's school boards or citycouncils, grocery stores or
(06:06):
churches.
Some folks have decided that ifthey are angry enough, they
don't have to argue.
They have to burn somethingdown.
And that's not new.
We've seen it before in Tulsa,in the civil rights movement, in
the assassinations of publicservants who dared to dream
differently.
But what makes this momentchilling is how normalized the
(06:29):
madness has become A man litanother man on fire and in less
than 24 hours it will be buriedin the news cycle under the
weight of political indictmentsand celebrity deaths.
This isn't just about right orleft.
It's about rage replacingreason.
It's about a slow drip ofdehumanization and how it has
(06:53):
allowed us to look at someone wedisagree with and stop seeing
them as human altogether.
And that is not just theinternet doing it, it's pulpits,
it's pundits, it's podcastsEverywhere you turn somebody's
telling you that the person whodisagrees with you isn't just
wrong, they're wicked.
(07:15):
They aren't just mistaken,they're monsters.
And monsters, you see, don'tdeserve mercy.
Monsters deserve death.
Monsters deserve mercy.
Moxers deserve death.
Moxers deserve flames.
When you run for city councilin a place like Danville,
virginia, you don't do it forglory, you don't do it for money
.
You do it because you care,because something in your gut
(07:37):
tells you that potholes matter,that school board policy matters
, that how the trash gets pickedup and how parks get funded and
how budgets are balancedmatters.
Lee Volger was elected at 24years old.
He was young, idealistic, alittle scrappy, and he stuck
with it.
Over a decade of servicealready.
He helped revitalize his town.
(08:00):
He poured energy into hiscommunity and for that for
showing up he got doused ingasoline and lit like a warning
sign.
Now let me ask you something.
Who in their right mind isgoing to want to serve after
seeing that?
What pastor is going to want torun for a school board?
(08:21):
What teacher is going to wantto volunteer for town council?
What single parent is going towant to take time off of their
work schedule to advocate for abetter library when they know
stepping into public life mightget them burned Literally?
We are decentivizing decency,we are scaring away the servants
(08:44):
and when the good people sit itout, the only people who are
going to step in are the cowards, the grifters and the
extremists.
Now some folks will say thiswasn't political, it was
personal, and on paper, sure itwas.
The man was arrested,apparently had a personal
(09:07):
connection to Volger.
Maybe there was some unresolvedbeef, some grievance boiling
under the surface.
But I ask you, what kind ofculture do we live in where
personal anger turns so easilyinto public violence?
It's all connected.
We are training people, throughyears of rage politics and
(09:28):
performative masculinity andzero-sum tribalism, to handle
pain with destruction, to meetdisappointment with blood, to
process humiliation through fire.
We are not raising citizensanymore, we are raising avengers
.
The mayor spoke out, thegovernor gave thoughts and
prayers, local pastors offeredvigils, and all that is good and
(09:51):
all that is necessary.
But let's be real, it is notenough.
This isn't the kind of woundyou patch up with a press
conference.
This is a sickness in theAmerican soul when a man is set
on fire.
Your community doesn't justneed healings, it needs
repentance.
Not just individual spiritualrepentance, but civic repentance
(10:14):
, the kind that makes us askwhat have we become?
How did we let ourselves get sonumb that a headline like a
city council person set ablazedoesn't make us all fall to our
knees?
Now to the people who are theregular church goers.
(10:34):
I have to speak plainly.
Where are we, where are you?
Where is the outcry?
Not just for Lee Volger, butfor every teacher, for every
journalist, for every doctor,for every city clerk or
electrician worker who has beenharassed, stalked, doxxed or
assaulted simply for showing upand doing their job?
(10:55):
We have preachers warning aboutthe spirit of Jezebel.
We have people talking aboutwokeness in Disney, but you
won't hear very many sermons onthe spirit of violence in the
land.
How do we continue to claim tofollow Jesus and stay silent
while your neighborhood burns?
And I don't say that withcondemnation, I say it with a
(11:19):
broken spirit, because I amcompelled not just to pray, I am
compelled also to try toprotect, to be a peacemaker, not
just a peace lover.
So let me bring it back to LeeVolkter.
(11:39):
He's more than a victim.
He's a father, he's a friend,he's a servant, and now he's a
survivor.
He's laying in a hospital bedscarred by a flame, carrying the
memory of a man he once knewwho walked into his office to
try to end his life.
(11:59):
That's not something you bounceback from with ointment.
That's something that tries tochange your soul.
And yet, by all accounts, leeVolger is holding on.
He identified his attacker,he's receiving care and when
asked how he was doing, hereportedly said I'm alive.
Sometimes, survival is the firstact of resistance.
(12:23):
So here we are Another act ofresistance.
So here we are.
Another act of violence,another headline we wish we
hadn't read.
Another chance for us to eitherlook away or to look inward.
And I beg you, don't turn thepage, don't scroll past.
Let the horror sit with you,let the fire be more than a
flicker on our feeds, let itburn through our apathy, because
(12:48):
this story about Lee Voglertoday, but tomorrow it could be
your pastor, your teacher, yourcoach, your city councilman,
your own child, who just happensto be standing up for something
and getting punished for it,not with an argument, but with
ash.
We must decide Will we be thepeople who settle disputes with
(13:09):
votes or with violence?
Will we be a country thatdebates or one that burns?
The time for silence is over.
The fire is not a metaphoranymore.
It's real, it's here, and whatwe have got to choose is who we
will be before this fireconsumes us all great and
(13:36):
perhaps a big part of yourevolution in thinking.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
Have you discussed the crisis in Gaza and the
terrifying I have?
She thinks it's terrible andshe sees the same pictures that
you see and that we all see Ithink everybody unless they're
pretty cold-hearted or worsethan that nuts.
There's nothing you can sayother than it's terrible.
When you see the kids and thoseare kids you know whether they
(14:05):
talk starvation or not.
Those are kids that arestarving.
I mean they are starving.
And you see the mothers.
They love them so much.
There's just nothing they seemto be able to do.
They got to get them food.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
It was a stunning moment to hear the president of
the United States, donald Trump,actually say what even
Democrats like John Fenneman aresaying is not happening.
Donald Trump said that there isstarvation happening in Gaza,
(14:39):
and the president is right onthat issue.
Speaker 4 (14:44):
I feel like I'm watching something that is so
self-evidently inhumane andhorrific and to be told that I
have to shut up because I riskthe Jewish state by speaking out
.
I would say the opposite.
I think they're putting thelikelihood of a surviving Jewish
(15:08):
state much more at risk withthis type of action.
I think they're the ones thatare being anti-Semitism.
If you want to define Netanyahu, the definition of
anti-Semitism would probablyhave to bomb himself.
How the definition ofanti-Semitism would probably
have to bomb himself.
But there's an urgency about itnow because, like right now, in
(15:29):
the situation we can't be like,but Jews are not getting along
with other Jews, like that's notthe important thing right now.
How is the world not steppingin and stopping this atrocity?
I don't understand this in anyway shape or form.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
It's boggling my mind .
It's worse than just notstepping in.
It's our weapons that areenforcing this siege, that is
enforcing this mass starvation.
It's a siege.
It's a military siege, yes,that we are deeply complicit in.
It could not happen without us.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
That last person you heard was Jon Stewart and Peter
Barnard, who wrote a book on theatrocities going on, and it
actually the book is titled um,being Jewish after the
destruction of Gaza, and so, andso the conversation about this
(16:24):
is starting to change.
Even Marjorie Taylor Greene hasbeen courageous and correct on
this issue when it comes to Gaza, and it's making, I guess,
different political bedfellows,and that's making, I guess,
(16:45):
different political bedfellows,and that's what's needed A
coalition that crosses partylines, so much now that even
you're hearing the language fromObama world.
So that's the pot save America,guys.
(17:05):
Uh, john Fabro, and, and thatcrew, you know Obama's old
speech writers, uh, um, and some, some other of his staffers are
starting to say the same thing.
And if the pod saved the worldguys are starting to say it,
then that means that theestablishment of the Democratic
(17:27):
Party is about to change theirtone on this issue.
Speaker 5 (17:36):
And I don't think Democratic candidates should
take money from AIPAC or vote tofund military support for
Israel anymore, Like I reallydon't.
This government absolutely not,and that especially includes, I
think, the next Democraticnominee for president.
Things I want to see.
Speaker 6 (17:48):
Democrats at least calling for is cutting off
military assistance to Israel.
It's a rich country, by the way.
They don't need our $3 billiona year and hands up right.
Barack Obama signed a 10-yearMOU for $3.3 billion a year,
like so we're part of theproblem here.
Let let's correct it.
I would like to see talk aboutsanctioning israeli government
officials who use genocidalrhetoric or talk about ethnic
cleansing openly.
We should support a ceasefireresolution at the un.
We should demand thatinternational press be allowed
(18:11):
into the gaza strip to report onwhat's happening without an ibf
minder.
It's insane.
The press still can't go intogaza and cover what's happening
I also think like there has tobe a total mindset change in the
democratic party when the warends.
We are not going back to thepre-October 7th status quo.
It's not where the party is.
It's not where the world is.
We're not going to shovelbillions a year in military aid.
We're not going to veto everyeffort to recognize the
Palestinian state at the UN.
(18:31):
We should not take money fromAIPAC and, like I, will hold out
hope for better politicalleadership in the US and in
Israel.
But we also have to recognizethat the Biden era hug Bibi
Netanyahu strategy has to bethrown in the trash can for
fucking ever.
Netanyahu is a bad actor.
He's continuing a war forpolitical purposes.
He bombs Lebanon when he wantsto.
He bombs Iran when he wants to.
He bombs Syria when he wants to.
(18:52):
This is not a partner we cancount on.
This is not someone who is likeleading to calm and stability
in the region, which should be acore interest.
Speaker 5 (18:59):
Like at this point.
Cutting off military fundingfor a government that is
starving two million people andadvertising how they're
ethnically cleansing thePalestinians seems like the
least we can do, Especially ifwe're going to head into a
primary like, table stakes isgoing to be no more military aid
for Israel.
Speaker 7 (19:13):
So there will just will have to be a shift, and I
do think that will mean puttingfar more pressure on Israel, and
that's what I think Democratswant.
By the way, that's what thecountry wants, and when you pull
Israelis, they say they want afucking ceasefire.
Israelis want the hostagesreturned through a negotiated
settlement and, by the way,that's the way in which the vast
majority of hostages who werereturned were able to be
returned.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
So there we have it.
What we are witnessing in Gazais not merely a tragedy.
It's, more precisely, adeliberately engineered
catastrophe, what some haveactually called a famine by
design.
So we have to be clear on thisStarvation is not an unintended
(19:54):
consequence of war.
It is the byproduct of a tragicmisunderstanding.
It is policy implemented andsustained by powerful actors
with full knowledge of the humancost the people of Gaza, which,
over two million of them, aretrapped and what has been long
(20:15):
described by internationalobservers as the world's largest
open-air prison.
But even that term now fallsshort, because, you see, in
prison there's at very least abaseline assumption that you're
going to get food and thatyou're going to get water and
that you're going to get basiccare.
Gaza, on the other hand, hasbeen systematically deprived of
(20:37):
even that.
And we're no longer talkingabout just a blockade, we are
talking about siege warfare witha very specific intent of
collective punishment.
So let's recall the history fora moment.
The Geneva Convention hadhard-won principles carved out
after the destruction and thedevastation that came after
(21:00):
World War II.
Explicitly, it forbade the useof starvation as a weapon
against civilian populations.
It is actually considered a warcrime.
Yet when we examine the Israelimilitary and the political
discourse surrounding Gaza, thelanguage is often disturbingly
frank.
Former Israeli officials havespoken of putting the population
(21:24):
on a diet and creatingconditions of pressure into the
people.
Quote turn against hamas.
This is not ambiguous.
This is starvation deployed asa strategic lever.
Now, of course, there will bethose who insist that hamas is
to blame for the suffering ofthe palestinian people, and it
is important to scrutinize allactors.
(21:45):
But the asymmetry here isoverwhelming.
We are not talking aboutequivalent powers locked in a
conflict.
We're talking about one of theworld's most advanced militaries
, targeted A targeting abesieged and stateless
population.
Half of those people in thatpopulation whom are children?
(22:10):
So I'm going to repeat thatagain Half of the population of
Gaza are children.
Children who have no say inpolitics of the region, no voice
in the international media andno protection from the economic,
physical or psychologicalwarfare being waged around them.
And what the internationalcommunity is doing?
(22:32):
What about the United States?
What about the European Union?
What about the so-calledrules-based order?
Well, what we see is what wehave seen for decades Rhetorical
concern followed by materialcomplicity.
Billions of military aid flowfreely, diplomatic cover is
(22:55):
given reflexively and medianarratives are carefully framed
to suggest complexity wherethere is in fact profound,
profound moral clarity.
This is actually not a hard case.
Starving people is wrong.
Withholding food and medicineis wrong.
Trafficking population, thencutting off their means to
survival, is wrong.
(23:16):
What is difficult isconfronting the reality that
those policies are being carriedout with our tax dollars, our
political alliances, our silence, and I already talked about
this on the show yesterday.
What about the church?
What about the institution thatclaims to speak on behalf of
(23:37):
moral truth?
Well, I would suggest thattheir silence is not neutral,
it's structural.
The American church,particularly its evangelical
wing, has for decades sacralizedthe state of Israel, not in
theological nuance, but innationalist abstraction.
(23:59):
Gaza doesn't fit into theeschatology, so it is ignored
conveniently and comfortably.
But silence in the case,especially in this case, is not
the absence of noise, it is thepresence of consent.
So what are we left with?
(24:20):
We're left with a choice.
What are we left with?
We're left with a choice Eitherwe continue to remove ourselves
with geopoliticaljustifications, or we recognize
the plain horror of what ishappening and name it for what
it is a siege, a starvationcampaign, a war crime.
(24:42):
History will not be kind topeople who looked away, but,
more importantly, neither willthe children of Gaza.
If they survive this and manywill not they will remember that
the world watched them gohungry and said nothing.
So perhaps it's time to saysomething Anything.
Speaker 8 (25:11):
Ever since the start of the destruction of Gaza by
the Israeli government followingthe October 7th attack, there
have been all kinds of concernsthat one of the things the
Israeli government would do isimpose mass starvation and
famine on the population of 2.2million people of Gaza.
At least, that was thepopulation when all this began,
half of whom half of thatpopulation 1.1 million are
(25:33):
children, are under the age of18.
And this has been somethingwe've seen evidence of and in
part, people were concernedabout it because the Israeli
government immediately announcedthat that was their intention.
And we've now gotten to thepoint after a full scale Israeli
blockade and by blockade Idon't mean that Israel is
failing to feed the people ofGaza.
(25:53):
I mean that the people andgroups and organizations that
are trying to bring food intoGaza are physically impeded from
doing so by the IDF.
As a result of official Israelipolicy, there was a complete
and full blockade for threemonths.
At the same time, they'veimposed policies such as
destroying any fields or plantswhere food could grow.
They are now killing or at theleast arresting anybody who
(26:16):
tries to just go a little bitout Remember, gaza has a beach
and a sea to try and fish forfood that is prohibited.
It clearly is a policy designedto starve the population to
death, which is why even israeliexperts in genocide, who long
resisted applying the wordgenocide to what israel is doing
in gaza, have now relented andsaid it's the only word that
(26:36):
applies, and the number ofgroups and governments and
people who previously supportedwhat israel was doing or at
least refused to acknowledge thefull extent of the atrocities,
have now, in their view, nochoice to do so.
The evidence is starting tobecome so overwhelming that only
the hardest core Israelloyalists are allowed to try and
deny it or blame somebody elsefor it.
(26:58):
Here from ABC News today, morethan 108 groups warned of quote
mass starvation in Gaza amidIsrael's war with Hamas.
Their statement warned of quoterecord rates of acute
malnutrition.
And it's eight groups and WorldHealth Organization and groups
from all over the planet thathave immense credibility in
having worked with conflictsmany times before.
(27:19):
A leading Israeli newspaper,which has been more critical of
the Netanyahu government thanmost but which, at the same time
, was supportive for months ofwhat Israel was doing in Gaza
following October 7th, which isthe Israeli Daily Heretz, had in
its lead editorial yesterdaythe editorial under this
(27:40):
headline Israel is starving Gaza.
And the language they used wasso clear, straightforward,
direct that it's unimaginable tothink of any Western media
outlet, large, corporate Westernmedia outlet, saying anything
similar Quote the famine thathas been created in Gaza is
(28:02):
another facet of Israel's cruelinhumanity toward the people of
Gaza.
It constitutes a war crime anda crime against humanity and is
a clear violation of the ordersissued a year and a half ago by
the International Court ofJustice in the Hague.
The famine does not contributeanything to the war effort
(28:22):
against Hamas.
Its gunmen will be the last tosuffer hunger in Gaza.
War effort against Hamas.
Its gunmen will be the last tosuffer hunger in Gaza.
Before that, it will bechildren, women and Israeli
hostages still captive there whostarve.
Last week we interviewed aleading scholar of famine
Actually, I believe that wasthis Monday who has studied
famines around the world for hisentire life, and not only did
he describe how what's takingplace in gaza is unprecedented,
(28:45):
at least since world war ii,because of how minutely planned
it is and because they're unlikefamine, say, in ethiopia or
sudan or yemen.
There are all sorts oforganizations with immense
expertise and resources who,just a couple of miles away from
where children are starving todeath, have huge amounts of food
and other aid that they want tobring to the people of Gaza,
(29:07):
yet are blocked from doing so bythe IDF.
And although I suppose it'sencouraging, or at least better
than the alternative, that evenWestern governments and the
longstanding Israel supporterswho are American politicians are
now issuing statements abouthow disturbed they are by the
mass famine in Gaza, how Israelneeds to immediately cease this
(29:29):
inhumane activity, none of thisis surprising.
None of it is new.
Israel made very clear from thevery beginning what exactly
their intentions were, andpeople just decided that they
were too scared to stand up andobject at the time.
Here's a reminder this isseptember.
(29:49):
I think this is october second,october 10th, not september.
Right, it's october 10th.
I live on date on the screen I2023.
Quote no electricity, food,water or gas.
Israel orders quote a completeGaza siege.
Oftentimes you hear that it'sonly far right extremist
(30:11):
ministers in Netanyahu'sgovernment who say things like
this, like Ben-Gavir orStrombich or people like that.
But in reality, the Israelidefense minister was one of the
moderate people, comparatively,at the start of the war, to the
point where net now who ended upousting him, and he was the one
who announced the followingquote israel, israel's defense
(30:32):
minister, yoav galant, hasordered a complete siege on the
gaza strip, saying israeliauthorities would cut
electricity and block the entryof food, water and fuel In April
(30:53):
of this year.
Just three months ago, anotherIsraeli minister, smatrich, said
at a conference quote not evena grain of wheat will enter Gaza
, proudly boasting of theactions that the Israeli
military, the Israeli government, intended to take, and then
took in his words to ensure thatnot even a grain of wheat
entered a place where 2.2million people, or 2 million
people, or 1.9 million peopleare clinging to survival in
(31:18):
between, dodging shelling fromtanks and bombs and having
everything from schools and UNrefugees and even their own
tents from being blown up.
From CNN, may 1st 2025, gazaedges closer to famine as
Israel's total blockade near itsthird month.
(31:41):
So, just as a reminder, it wasin February, after Trump was
inaugurated, that Israelexplicitly announced to the
world that it was blockading allfood from entering Gaza.
They didn't hide it, it wasn'tin dispute, it wasn't in doubt.
It was an official Israelipolicy to starve the entire
population, which is collectivepunishment, as a way of forcing
(32:03):
Hamas to negotiate or tosurrender that the Nazis, who
did things similarly like starveentire cities, starve entire
(32:25):
ghettos of Jews, were treated aswar criminals and held
responsible and actuallyexecuted.
So none of this is new for allthe people who are now just
seeing the babies who areemaciated in skin and bones and
dying of malnutrition, andincreasingly older children and
adults as well, to suddenly comeout and say oh my God, I can't
believe this.
What have we been supporting?
This has to stop.
(32:45):
This is all months in themaking and, as hunger experts
and famine groups will tell you,once it gets to this stage
where people are actually dyingnow of famine in large numbers,
it becomes irreversible.
Irreversible physically because, even if you get the food in,
their bodies aren't equipped toprocess it.
(33:06):
They need much more extensivemedical care than that and, of
course, in children it impedesbrain growth for life and
physical vitality for life, tosay nothing of the mass death
from starvation which we're nowstarting to see.
Here is from the NPR on May 13th.
(33:30):
Quote since early March,shortly before the breakdown of
a tenuous ceasefire, israel hasbeen imposing a blockade of Gaza
, denying the entry of all goods, including food, medical
supplies and critical supplies.
Quote.
Now the entire population isfacing high levels of acute food
insecurity, with one in fivepeople facing starvation,
(33:54):
according to the most recentreport from the Integrated Food
Security Phase classification.
That's why all these suddenattempts to distance oneself
that we're seeing from Westerngovernments and Western
politicians is utterlynauseating.
They're the ones who enabled it, they're the ones who have been
(34:14):
paying for it, they're the oneswho have been arming it,
they're the ones who have beencheering for it, despite Israeli
vows to starve to death thepeople of Gaza.
We've been hearing for a yearand a half about stories of
doctors in Gaza having toperform major surgeries,
amputations on children, withoutso much as any painkillers, let
alone anesthesia.
Horror stories of the worstkind imaginable, of evidence so
(34:48):
conclusive and so indisputablefrom so many different sources,
that it's essentially becomeimpossible for denialists of
these atrocities to maintaintheir denialism any longer.
There's been a long trend,basically Israel and it has
trained its loyalists throughoutthe West Anytime there's a
study, anytime there's apronouncement, anytime there's a
finding or a criticism, toimmediately say, oh, you can't
(35:09):
listen to them.
They're anti-Semitic, they hateIsrael, they lie to attack
Israel, they're even guilty ofblood libel.
So if you present a UN report,that's instantaneous.
If you hear from journalists inGaza, even showing video.
They're all liars.
They're all anti-Semitic hatersof Israel, the Israeli daily
(35:32):
heretics oh, throw everythingthey say out.
But now we're starting to seeall sorts of Western doctors,
and these doctors are people whobelong to groups like Doctors
Without Borders, which I'vealways described as one of the
noblest things you can do.
You go to school for years, youhave medical training, you
become a surgeon, you become aspecialist in your field,
(35:55):
treating all kinds of majorinjuries, and instead of staying
in London or Beverly Hills orMiami or Paris and making
massive amounts of moneytreating wealthy people, you
volunteer to go around the worldto war zones that are very
dangerous, where countries don'thave the sufficient medical
expertise to treat people whoare being harmed or killed by
(36:17):
the byproducts of war, in orderto save as many lives as you
possibly can.
These people don't just go toplaces where there are Israeli
bombs falling.
They've been all over the worldin multiple war zones, and the
bravest of them have been goingto Gaza.
We've been hearing from themAmerican nurses, american
doctors, western doctors andmedical workers and what they're
(36:39):
now coming back and saying aresome of the most horrifying
things you will ever hear.
And how is it possible forIsrael loyalists to just
constantly dismiss all of thesepeople as anti-Semitic liars or
fabulous or guilty of theater?
These are people describingwhat they've seen with their own
eyes and, unlike in the UnitedStates, where there's still
(37:00):
mostly a blackout of this kindof reporting, in the UK it's
starting to really seep throughinto mainstream television
outlets.
Despite the long history of theUK's steadfast support for
Israel, including right up untilthis day where the Starmer
government the government ofSarkir Starmer, the Labour
(37:21):
government flies reconnaissancemissions over gaza, provides
weapons to israel.
Here is, uh, nick maynard.
He's a british physician whowas on the mainstream program
good morning britain it's justlike good morning america in the
united states and he got backfrom gaza.
Speaker 9 (37:40):
He's a surgeon and here's what he described in his
own words now, of course, youknow the idf will claim that
their intention is not massstarvation.
However and I want to warnpeople here, because what we're
about to talk about now, whichI've already talked about
already, is just astonishing,and I don't think this is it
doesn't matter which side you'reon, even if, indeed, you are on
a side this particular accountof what you've seen about the
(38:01):
pattern of injuries, your claimsof what you think the idf
soldiers are doing to causethese injuries, is alarming.
Would you mind explaining?
Speaker 1 (38:11):
that to us.
Yes, I mean I.
One of the big differencesbetween this most recent trip
these last four weeks I've beenin gaza was the large number of
gunshot wounds.
I've seen in previous trips aspredominantly explosive injuries
from bombs, but I saw on thisoccasion multiple gunshot wounds
, almost exclusively on youngteenage males, some of them as
young as 11, 12, 13, 14, all ofwhom had been shot at the food
(38:34):
distribution points so-calledGhazi Humanitarian Foundation
food distribution points and thepattern of injuries, the
stories I was getting from theirfamilies, from the patients and
indeed from GARS and healthcareworkers who went to these food
points to get food forthemselves.
One of the nieces used to gobetween operations to get food,
(38:56):
but I saw terrible injuries tothe abdomen and the chest.
But there was a very clearpattern of injuries, a cluster
of injuries to specific bodyparts on particular days.
So one day, for example, we'dsee patients coming in with
gunshot wounds just to the headand neck.
On another day they'd be comingin with gunshot wounds to the
chest or the abdomen.
(39:17):
The next day, the legs.
On one day, about 12 days ago,we saw four young teenage boys
13, 13, 14, all of whom had beenshot specifically in the
testicles.
So the very clear clustering ofthese injuries appeared to us
like a target practice.
A game was being played.
Speaker 10 (39:35):
We should point out, yeah, that Israel have said,
you know they don'tintentionally shoot civilians.
Speaker 8 (39:40):
Troops near the aid sites have been firing warning
shots and they say they work tominimize friction between the
population and forces as much aspossible he just gets done
saying exactly what he's beenseeing that every day they kind
of for fun, almost idf soldierspick which part of the body
they're going to snipe youngchildren, teenagers, young
(40:01):
teenagers, with oh today, theirheads.
They'll, their chest, how abouttheir kneecaps?
How?
How about their testicles?
And they come in with clutcheswith all the same injury.
We've been hearing stories ofIDF soldiers purposely targeting
young boys who come in withbullets in their brains.
We've been hearing about thisfor quite a long time now he's
(40:22):
in Gaza.
He's seen exactly what he'sdescribing.
Quite a long time now he's inGaza.
He's seen exactly what he'sdescribing.
Here he is again talking aboutsomething, in one way, not quite
as brutal, but in another way,almost more horrific in terms of
the intentionality that itshows in terms of what the
(40:43):
Israeli government and the IDFare actually up to in terms of
their objectives in Gaza.
Speaker 10 (40:46):
You were saying to us that your colleagues that
have tried to help who've triedto take baby formula in, for
example have been prevented fromdoing so.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
Yes, absolutely.
I mean I spent quite a bit oftime on the pediatric intensive
care unit because I havepatients there appalling
malnutrition and a lot ofdoctors I know who have taken in
formula feed because they knewthere was such a shortage.
Speaker 9 (41:10):
None has been allowed in by the Israelis since the
last week you go through acheckpoint, you get searched as
a doctor and if you've got anybaby formula in your pockets or
in your bag, they want toconfiscate it from you, very
specifically confiscating thatNothing else.
Speaker 1 (41:24):
They confiscated every single, specifically
confiscating that nothing else.
Um, they confiscated everysingle carton of formula feed
that these doctors would take,can you?
Speaker 9 (41:31):
think of any other, any reason other than they just
don't want you to give it to thebaby.
Speaker 1 (41:34):
We, we we're very cautious in what we're, what we
take in, because we know muchwill be confiscated and
certainly they always sayanything that could be remotely
used as a weapon, such assurgical, surgical instruments,
we can't take in.
But I cannot think of anyreason why they would confiscate
a formula feed.
Speaker 8 (41:50):
If you are deliberately preventing the
entrance into Gaza of babyformula, knowing that there is
severe malnutrition among thewomen giving birth to these
babies, and not when Hamasoperatives are trying to bring
them in, but from Westerndoctors who work with
organizations known around theworld for treating people with
injuries in war zones.
(42:11):
If that isn't evidence ofgenocidal intent, someone needs
to tell me what is.
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